SFA3-Sagat cc infinite set up

[Apoc]

Since Sagat is now top tier in SFA3 I was wondering if anyone knew the exact vc set up for his infinite. I never bothered to ask Bas(Now if it was V-Rog I woulda held him captive until he told me but I don't care too much about characters or isms I'm not gonna rep). But seeing as how SFA3 still interests me as a true hardcore fighter on the whole, I figured I'd pose this question for all who may be interested.

The reason I ask is because we've searched for non-flippable set-ups years ago and finally the Japanese hardcore sfa3 players have found it. Not only have they found it but the claim was made that it is EASY! Aaargh! Easy? It took years to find and it's easy? Wth? That alone makes me curious so, what is it?

I don't use Aim so I thought maybe someone could ask Bas to make an mpeg of it for us all so we can be dumbfounded at the ease of this elusive set up.

Before anyone asks. This set up is precisely why he is top tier. His vc was already easy and insanely damaging and could be started from half a screen away ground or air(gotta love the universal uses for customs(read as:ccs are still friggin' stupid)). Now he can go straight into a crouch cancel to build for the next round while killing you? Man it must suck facing a top tier Sagat in Japan now, lol.

Hopefully someone can get this answered and satisfy my curiosity:)

Apoc.

[Subliminal UK]

Sagat top tier? news to me, but i'll take your word for it.

Hmm im off into training mode tonight to see if i can find it and i'll drop a mail to Jimmy see if he knows.

It's got be something along the lines of getting a shadow to hit as you jump ala Cody.

hmm, interesting.

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[SaBrE]

ive done vc3. while inthe corner, do the s.fierce,tiger shot repeat shit. what i do is cancel s.fierce(it hits) wiffed low shot, then a wiffed c.jab, s.fierce shadow should now hit and j.strong after into cc. inconsistent setup when i play tho. i dunno if its guarunteed or just random. i never practice sagat and its just shit i make up in the middle of a match. b+fierce during the corner vc gives some good resets into cc. cant think of any off the top of my head tho...

[Subliminal UK]

Yeah that sounds good Sabre.

I've been playing with this set-up:

VC2 Short Tiger Knee, S.jab, Jab Tiger uppercut, J.short cc j.short

It seems solid as the shadow Jab hits as a juggle about the time as you need to jump.

Im going to try it on DC (just for the tech hits) and watch it frame by frame.

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[Nibor]

vc2 s. fierce (hit) whiff c. roundhouse, then shadow of s. fierce hits. I've gotten it to be actually unflippable, and its easy, but just like any setup that involves different heights that characters can be at etc its not perfect. The only truly unflippable setups in my experience are VC1 setups. As far as VC1 sagat goes.. well his c. strong seems to be a good bet for a whiffed attack into infinite but does he have any good VC1 VC setups? usually when i jab dp i get 2 hits in VC1.

i also note that the only ground normal that hits characters high for sagat is s. roundhouse. I'd guess if you want a setup into an infinite (as opposed to just a few hits) the move that hits as a shadow would have to be a s. roundhouse, dp, or tiger knee (doubtful).

[SaBrE]

yeah vc1 setups always work best, but unfortunately, sagat's corner vc1's are sloppy at best. i can see nibor's working totally. but for, i never use vc2. my fingers are like trained to do vc3 everytime with sagat everytime lol.

subliminal: are you wiffing any of those attacks you just mentioned? just trying to get a visual going

[Subliminal UK]

Im trying to work out timing to get a shadow pop as i'm doing a move. playing with this idea.

VC2: roundhouse Tiger knee, S.roundhouse (1 hit), Jab uppercut, whiff s.jab, shadow of tiger uppercut hits as you jump

Can you walk cancel after a tiger uppercut? like charlie or karin can walk cancel for the high shadow launch.

Nice start for VC1 is Roundhouse Tiger Knee, easy to cancel into Fierce, whiff fireball pattern. best from distance.

Going to have a bong and work on this some more.

I thought only Chun was fast enough to have a whiff normal into infinite. For ryu set-up red fireball, whiff c.jab, j.strong is escapable by back flips only i think. Cody's Roundhouse repeat, whiff c.jab, j.short is escapable too.

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edit: What about VC3: S.fierce, whiff fireball, S.Roundhouse, whiff tiger knee, jump?

more edits: What about VC3 Jab uppercut, S.roundhouse, whiff s.short, j.strong?? shadow of uppercut hits just after 2nd hit of roundhouse maybe enough time to get a j.strong to hit at same time?

i think the last one may have potential.

[Big_Bad_Geif]

i use a whiff standin strong in vc1... thats seems like itll work a bit more consistently with a bit more practice... the only problem is gettin them up high enough for the jumpin strongs to hit... so i have to do a jumping short first..

[Apoc]

I'm gonna hit the cade tonight and play some A3 and test some of these theories. Thanks fellas, yall rock!

Sabre:I'm preparing to take the long drive to Chicago soon. It'd be nice to knock back a few and get some games in as I pass through AZ.

When I get settled, the goal is to form some kind of annual A3 national event(even though I won't be too competitive, heheh). I mean, Taiwan and Japan still have nationals for A3. Why shouldn't the US? Especially since Evo is more about what's new or what'll bring more Japanese over instead of the most solid games(not dissing on Evo at all. It's the best tourney in the US still...for now. I just miss the mentality that created the scene for crying out loud. That formula never failed).

Apoc.

[Middlekick]

Sagat's infinite set up is done by using a whiffed low strong in his VC1 corner sequence e.g [whiffed low tiger shot-> stand fierce] x n-> whiffed low strong-> shadow low strong hits-> jump..

This combo has been around for like 3 years.

nearly every character has a VC1 shadow-hit-set up; usually by whiffing a medium attack(or in some cases, a light attack).
They're not hard to find...it's best to practice on classic/No-ism opponents.

Apoc: I'm curious as to why you think Sagat is top tier. Please explain. Thank you.

[SaBrE]

middlekick: well, yeah thats the obvious setup of course thats pretty much universal with most characters. but lets face it, vc1 sucks overall for sagat unless you activated on a cornered opponent :)

apoc: hey bro, lemme know when you come around, we will setup something fa sho. im dying for some action, since evo didnt have any casual action this year :rolleyes: that would be badass bro. you know how to find me if you need to contact me... peace

[Apoc]

Originally posted by Middlekick

Apoc: I'm curious as to why you think Sagat is top tier. Please explain. Thank you.

The Japanese told me during Evo including Bas. Are you sure that's the set up? That's a corner only set up, no? I mean, that combo has been on a3 combo vids for quite some time. I realize I should've asked but, as I stated earlier, I'm not too interested in Sagat but he's supposed to be dominating in Japan right now due to easy kills.

This year he's become a common character for the top A3 players in Japan, or so I've been told.

It's not news that V-Sagat is good. It's news to me that he's one of Japan's top picks now. I specifically asked why he is now and not before and I was told that he is one vc death from anywhere on the screen. I can see your confusion considering that his vc goes from one end to the other. Perhaps the old set-up doesn't work on every character and the new one does? Just a thought.

It would confuse me that an old ass combo is why Sagat is tops now. HELLA easy infinite characters now. What vc makes Sagat better than the others?

Apoc.

[B_IzM]

I've been a big fan of Nekonohi ever since I saw him in Ultimate Zero II singles tourney. You can see more footage of him on the old ACho videos. He's the only V-Sagat player out there.

I've seen him do many variations of the infinite. Mostly all of you guys have posted already, but I found another method in which to me IMO is the easiest setup.

It goes: VC2, Tiger Knee, S.Fierce XX whiff Tiger Knee, until in corner, then S.Fierce xx Low Tiger Shot (around 3 repititions), then whiff standing Strong, CC, Jump straight up w/ Medium Kick, as soon as you land, crouch and start walking forward until the Medium Kick shadow hits them, then go into CC Strongs.

If you don't understand this, I will try to capture it later on w/ my arcade board.

BTW, Nekonohi has a website w/ a ton of V-Sagat stuff. Japanese only though.

Here it is: http://www8.plala.or.jp/Nekonohi/

[toilet]

The set-up that works the most consistently for me is VC2, s.fierce -> fb's, whiff c.strong, then jump up. Depending on the height of the opponent I like to either jump up with a strong or short. If they're high enough go right into the strong, if they're still kind of low, hit them with a j.short.

The only other thing is if you're player 2. When you hit the corner you have to hit them with the j.short to change sides, then a straight up short, then strongs to carry them back across the screens.

Sftchina had a batch of recent Acho SFA3 tournament matches that contained a couple crazy V-Sagats. I have them along with the original Bas character VC's that contain both P1 and P2 sagat infinites. I'll try to find a place to put them.

[Subliminal UK]

Originally posted by B_IzM
It goes: VC2, Tiger Knee, S.Fierce XX whiff Tiger Knee, until in corner, then S.Fierce xx Low Tiger Shot (around 3 repititions), then whiff standing Strong, CC, Jump straight up w/ Medium Kick, as soon as you land, crouch and start walking forward until the Medium Kick shadow hits them, then go into CC Strongs.

Yeah the walk cancel VCs have insane recharge on them. Vnash was showing me charlies and after 5 crouch cancelled J.fierces and flashkick its 50% meter back. And i'm pretty sure that the walk cancel set-up is the best for Karin's semi-infinite.

nice one b-izm :)

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(i was on the right tracks \o/ )

[Apoc]

Originally posted by B_IzM
I've been a big fan of Nekonohi ever since I saw him in Ultimate Zero II singles tourney. You can see more footage of him on the old ACho videos. He's the only V-Sagat player out there.

I've seen him do many variations of the infinite. Mostly all of you guys have posted already, but I found another method in which to me IMO is the easiest setup.

It goes: VC2, Tiger Knee, S.Fierce XX whiff Tiger Knee, until in corner, then S.Fierce xx Low Tiger Shot (around 3 repititions), then whiff standing Strong, CC, Jump straight up w/ Medium Kick, as soon as you land, crouch and start walking forward until the Medium Kick shadow hits them, then go into CC Strongs.

If you don't understand this, I will try to capture it later on w/ my arcade board.

BTW, Nekonohi has a website w/ a ton of V-Sagat stuff. Japanese only though.

Here it is: http://www8.plala.or.jp/Nekonohi/

Damn B! You da Man!

Apoc.

[Inigma]

One set-up is VC2 then you do the standard VC to corner... Then when you have about 15% you do stand fierce into 2 whiffed low tigers, then when opponent is low enough to the ground you do DEEP jab Tiger Uppercut... When you recover your shadow hits and you are able to go into CC... Also it is best to start with jump jab then strong's... This was one set-up Bas told me... There are a whole lot of other ludicrous set-ups into it inlcuding resets that kill faster (Yay!:mad: )...

I actually am more interested in knowing what they are doing with Sagat that is non-VC related that makes him good... I saw one Sagat vs Sakura on acho match where he ranged the fuck out of that whore (God I hate her so much!!!!)... Standing short beats standing roundhouse!!!:D

What's up Scott!

[50-fiftytrap]

:evil:Damn I'm glad I found this thread I like Sagat I'm glad that he's finally been determined good. I want to know what does cc mean and vc. Yo Apoc did you ever get any MwC yet I just got the EVO2k2 DVD, and I liked your Balrog bout time some played a good Balrog in A3. Are you trying to open up a arcade or something.:evil:

50
:evil: :evil: :evil:

[Apoc]

Originally posted by 50-fiftytrap
:evil:Damn I'm glad I found this thread I like Sagat I'm glad that he's finally been determined good. I want to know what does cc mean and vc. Yo Apoc did you ever get any MwC yet I just got the EVO2k2 DVD, and I liked your Balrog bout time some played a good Balrog in A3. Are you trying to open up a arcade or something.:evil:

50
:evil: :evil: :evil:

Nah, no mwc:/ CC=custom combo. VC= variable combo. They're all ccs but, A3 calls them vcs.

Not opening up an arcade but hopefully by next year I'll have established an A3 annual tourney or even bi-annual. Thanks for the Rog props yo=)

Apoc.

[50-fiftytrap]

:evil:Yeah I hear ya man I was gonna come to EVO but funds ran a lil low. How come you don't play MvC2 and I hear you don't really like 3s how come.:evil:

50
:evil: :evil: :evil:

[_MJ_]

just because he has a infinite makes him top tier? Explain.

[Ryu1999]

Originally posted by _MJ_
just because he has a infinite makes him top tier? Explain.

i think its the fact that he has easy transition to infinite from a easy midscreen VC that already does a lot of damage that Apoc (and apparently the Japanese) are promoting him as top-tier.

[SaBrE]

well, i dont think hes top tier. but i always thought he was close to it. and i think the difference from top tier to 2nd tier was very close. the fact that he has a powerful vc and good cc's make him scarier. his c.fierce(much better in a3 than it will ever be in cvs2 IMO). even tho it gets owned by s.jab. but i think he gets beat by a lot of the tops. he gets destroyed by sim for free. he can beat gief tho IMO. i think he can beat ryu, but not akuma. i dont see him being top. but close. cuz if hes considered top, for cc reasons, then cody should be too. hes got like 9834759837459873984753 more ways to land infinite and more variety in his vc's. eh i dunno...

[Subliminal UK]

Yeah i would say that this combo, set-up doesn't make Sagat top-tier. It's the crazy Japanese making mid tier characters look uber tier. It takes more effort to win with Sagat than with Akuma.

I think the real bonus of the walk cancel set-ups is the VC recharge. compared to Cody who get's practically no meter back and an infinite set-up that varies on who you're fighting.

Im wondering if im doing it right someone care to take a look? (kawaks replay) cheers.

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[_MJ_]

Heres my corner setup, little different from the others but it worked. VC2 was used here.


http://www.geocities.com/goforbrokehub/VSagatInfinite.zip

[SaBrE]

i downloaded your vid mj. but i got an error in winzip. i tried downloading again like 2 seconds later and its already gone. dame free websites

[omni]

Originally posted by SaBrE
he can beat gief tho IMO. i think he can beat ryu, but not akuma. i dont see him being top. but close. cuz if hes considered top, for cc reasons, then cody should be too.

The obligatory Japan is better than USA anecdote:

Last A3 nationals (next one is October 11th I think which I will miss since I will be coming back on October 1st) in Japan, after the tournament the best VSagat player played against the best VAkuma player 20 games. VSagat won something stupid like 17-3 I think. Bas told me that basically at round 1 fight distance, Sagat can activate CC, get you into the corner, land infinite, build meter, kill you. So round 2 can start potentially the same way.

Carry on.

Derek Daniels
omni@shoryuken.com

[SaBrE]

well damn if its like that. then cody should be hella top tier too. he can land vc from same distance and infinite is easier IMO. jast takes him longer to kill... thats crazy tho final score was like 17-3. haha...

[Ubersaurus]

I gotta know what exactly the japanese are using...because that's something really strong :eek:

[B_IzM]

Here you go.

Right Click - Save As

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/rutsvar/sagat1p.wmv
Here is the normal CC setup.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/rutsvar/sagat2p50.wmv
Here is the normal corner CC setup w/ 50% VC bar

[_MJ_]

Originally posted by SaBrE
i downloaded your vid mj. but i got an error in winzip. i tried downloading again like 2 seconds later and its already gone. dame free websites


Damn the problem was i use maximum compression which screwed the file up but i fixed it. Download away!

copy/paste in URL Bar:

http://www.geocities.com/goforbrokehub/VSagatInfinite.zip

Another Mirror :

http://www.geocities.com/mvcbugs/VSagatInfinite.zip

[SaBrE]

damn man, links are already dead lol

[_MJ_]

Originally posted by SaBrE
damn man, links are already dead lol


links work dude

[B_IzM]

links don't work. :(

[_MJ_]

well of course the file tranfer allocate thing will show up when lots of people download it but aside from that the links work. Im trying to find any good freesites. Know any?

[Subliminal UK]

links didn't work at first, didn't work earlier today but are at the moment \o/

might as well watch it while im posting...

I'd say that set-up is escapable. Can you get player 2 to tap Back+pp while you do it?

I think the walk cancel set-up is the way forward as shown in b-izm's vid.

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[_MJ_]

Originally posted by Subliminal UK
links didn't work at first, didn't work earlier today but are at the moment \o/

might as well watch it while im posting...

I'd say that set-up is escapable. Can you get player 2 to tap Back+pp while you do it?

I think the walk cancel set-up is the way forward as shown in b-izm's vid.

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hmm dunno i need to test it on someone but even if its possible to flip out its possible to catch them like i done so with v-cody numerous times.

[TS]

For whomever asked, "cc" tends to stand for crouch-cancel in A3 threads, but it also stands for Custom combo, depending on who's posting, of course.

Sagat is really good. I don't know exactly what that Sagat vs Akuma match series proves (btw...someone record A3 nationals. I will give you sex), but I don't think America as a whole knows enough about his matches yet to say whether he's top tier. All I know is that he's not hard to use..

I personally think he beats Gief, and Ryu still likes to be able to throw fireballs, which is real bad (VC3, Tiger Crush, GGPO), and for all I know Sak may lose b+FP xx fireball for a similar reason. But like I said, there's too much i don't know...whether the infintie setups work on charlie, how easy it is to reset his midscreen vs Sim (i'm guessing it's not), etc. Certainly interesting to know japan considers him 1st tier now.

[Apoc]

Originally posted by TS
Certainly interesting to know japan considers him 1st tier now.

Then again, at one point or another, something like 15 characters have been viewed as top tier so...we can leave it as; a good v-sagat is really serious bidness now.

Apoc.

[kane_warhead]

You people should go here

http://www.geocities.co.jp/HeartLand-Apricot/9893/index.html

My japanese friend is hosting a tournament. 4 other japanese are confirmed to go(like Project Arashi)... They're still negotiating with Daigo... since Daigo is on/off in Alpha 3.

The tournament is in the Philippines

[Muskau]

Guess that player that won the A3 regionals back in 98 with V-Sagat is pretty happy now :lol:

[Icege]

Hrm... I was at a buddy's house and saw Sagat land a VC into the corner where he did the cc infinite. Funny thing was, the video had Sagat at like, 26 hits or something, then suddenly it was 60+.

I couldn't tell you how to do it off the top of my head. It was a Japanese video though, I'm pretty sure and was versus Vega/Balrog. I suck at A3 and don't even know what a good vc for Sagat is, so I'm not much help.

Of course, if I were to see it again, knowing the little bit more that I do know, I could tell you what it is. I just remember tiger knees and either standing fierce or a tiger uppercut to the corner, and then alternating between standing fierce and lower tiger shot in the corner. I think it ended with a tiger uppercut into the infinite.

Come to think of it, didn't somebody in this thread already post that set up?

[shadowcharlie]

Originally posted by Pez_Man
Tested it out on DC and the cpu couldn’t flip.

:confused:

[pocari sweat]

http://www.mfr.jp/acho/movie2.htm

the first or second A3 video has the sagat infinite done from midscreen and corner.

[Sabin]

I dont see how Sagat can be top. he doesnt have any good normals outside of c fierce for the most part, everything else is too slow...and by using japans logic, cody can be top tier as well cause he has infinite setup, so can sodom (well he is top tier even w/out the infinite heh, too many vc setups).

Keep in mind I haven't seen anyone or any match vids with good V-Sagat's. I'd love to be proven wrong otherwise tho, sagat being top tier is definetely a good thing for this game. Too bad it's off a stupid glitch :lol:

[SaBrE]

thats exactly what i was saying earlier. if hes top tier for vc into infinite, than anyone else with reliable vc into infinite is top too going by all that logic IMO, even v-chun(AA vc c.rh, s.short, infinite)

[Sabin]

yeah well i guess the difference is the setup, and sagat does have multiple setups for CC, after all

[SaBrE]

i dunno, i think cody has a lot more setups. i think the only thing sgat has better in terms of vc is vc into the rh tiger knee since it travels far and is very fast. but i think it shouldnt matter tho, as long as they have 1 setup and its reliable, thats all that should metter IMO. but regardless, i still dont think hes top, i just think hes 2nd tier

[Icege]

www.sftchina.com apparently has some V-Sagat vids where he bukkakes several people

[SaBrE]

he rapes a v-ryu, thats it...

[Icege]

Well... it can still be several since there's little shadows of Ryu... me thinks...

[randomj]

I read this link a month or so after it was orignally posted. Unfortunately all the links for vids were dead. I was wondering if anyone could post new links for these vids or point me to a place i could find them at.

Thanks Alot


James

[Snowman]

this is n00bish, but what is a 'whiff' ?
i've never heard of that.

[js2756]

Whiffing is intentionally doing a move so that it doesn't hit. It is most important in A3 so that you don't reach a neutral state in VCs (your opponent can flip out when your character is in a neutral state).