what characters own blanka , grove and what specifically beats him [Archive]

popoblo

10-15-2003, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by noodleman
dude, A-Sakura own's Blanka for free. her dive kick out prioritize blanka's normal anti-airs, she can start cc at just about anytime and there's nothing you can do about it.

Bison has that cross up block chain that's 100% safe and takes more than 1/2 of the guard bar. Even though you can counterattack it, you still lose crazy amounts of guard damage.

sure divekick outprioritizes his normal AA's, but blanka can do quick RC electricity (i drum lp, mp, hp, roll, hp), so basically only a lp and then RC electricity will come out. level 2/3 direct lightning super anyone? i'm just saying sakura doesn't get free jump ins all the time.

yea, but blanka really shouldn't be playing in that range where bison can easily cross him up anyway. besides, you can just RC hop out of there if it's a bad crossup situation.

and mummy-B you bring up an interesting point. in the SBO finals, tokido's A-sak would get ino's k-blanka in the corner and do RC rh hurricane kick, then 3 standing lp's, and he'd do it again. kinda like a pseudo trap, because ino couldn't do shit to get out of it.

Ryumexicano

10-17-2003, 10:40 PM

In my opinion, Blanka's Rc electric shit doen't compare with Sakura's damn Rc Hurrican kick. That shit is just annoying. A-Sakura owns Blanka for Free. I do think C-Chun gives Blanka a hard time, doesn't own, but gives a hard time. Chun and Sakura are some annoying girls. A-Rolento is another annoying bastard in A-groove.

Ryumexicano

kennywood

10-19-2003, 02:51 AM

Hibiki does very good against Blanka w/out low jump

Mummy-B

10-19-2003, 03:18 AM

Originally posted by popoblo

and mummy-B you bring up an interesting point. in the SBO finals, tokido's A-sak would get ino's k-blanka in the corner and do RC rh hurricane kick, then 3 standing lp's, and he'd do it again. kinda like a pseudo trap, because ino couldn't do shit to get out of it.

Yeah he had to triple JD and KKK hop just to escape the guard crush. Any other Groove Blanka could have easily dealt with it, and if all else failed you could AC the final hurricane kick hit because she's no longer invincible and there's no fear of retaliation afterward (because we all know how shitty Blanka's AC is). I think Tokido linked the jab at the end so the there were actually no holes. Top tier

kcxj

10-20-2003, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by noodleman
dude, A-Sakura own's Blanka for free. her dive kick out prioritize blanka's normal anti-airs, she can start cc at just about anytime and there's nothing you can do about it.

wtf... You can't just jump to Blanka and expect to attack with dive kicks. Sakura has like 10 frame startup where she just floats there in the air not doing anything before the attack comes out. Blanka jump up HP and especially jump forward pimp smack eats her up.

Popo (I'd call you Popes, but that sounds too much like Pokes :lol: ):

Whiff s.LP, RC electricity takes a real long time to come out too. If you try to do that with Blanka, then Sakura doing that attack with dive kicks silliness will actually work... :bluu:

If Sakura knocks you down, and you try to reversal RC electricity, Sakura will beat you out too. The dive kick hits really meaty. Your RC will lose because of that one vulnerable get up frame nobody knows about...

Blanka versus Sakura isn't that bad. Just run away when she has her meter that's all. Attack her like crazy when she doesn't have it. There's a lot Blanka can do to avoid Sakura activating. When I play Sakura, I make sure to link all my CC activations from something guaranteed (so Blanka can't escape for sure). It's the only time I'll activate when I have Sak vs. Blanka. I use jump in attack (blocked or hit), CC and d.LP (blocked or hit), CC, d.MK link a lot.

popoblo

10-20-2003, 05:44 PM

kcxj

i c, i was just playing theory fighter anyway. good to know though. what can blanka do if sakura wants to do a meaty divekick on your wakeup and then activate into CC? is there anything blanka can do?

Burghy

10-21-2003, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by popoblo
kcxj

i c, i was just playing theory fighter anyway. good to know though. what can blanka do if sakura wants to do a meaty divekick on your wakeup and then activate into CC? is there anything blanka can do?

Two things Blanka can do:

1) Reversal level 2 or level 3 super.

2) SURRENDER

Usually you will be using option 2)

noodleman

10-22-2003, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by Burghy

Two things Blanka can do:

1) Reversal level 2 or level 3 super.

2) SURRENDER

Usually you will be using option 2)

This is kind of interesting...since blanka can't do jack about the cc, when they activate, should i just let them hit me? In K-Groove, if i block, i get no rage bar and guard crushed for the just about the same amount of damage from the cc, where as if i let them hit me, i at least get raged.

Oh, and if you're in RC grooves, you can RC your way out of it with wake-up RC ball, electricity and possibily back hop. Basically you can't let them land the meaty dive kick (hit or blocked).

Koop

10-22-2003, 08:45 AM

I've found my vice during a distance tatic is good. Not "owning" but I have taken a few blanka's out.

Um im trying my guile out to defeat him. Cammy does some good shyt too. Arturon down in NC destroyed a blanka with Eagle which looked pretty nice

popoblo

10-22-2003, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by Lil_Koopsta

I've found my vice during a distance tatic is good. Not "owning" but I have taken a few blanka's out.

Um im trying my guile out to defeat him. Cammy does some good shyt too. Arturon down in NC destroyed a blanka with Eagle which looked pretty nice

never thought of vice before. i remember how ino's K-blanka countered daigo's C-guile pretty hard in one of the matches in the evo finals. i believe ino's k-blanka still had like half life left for cammy. even though that's obviously an extreme example, it's probably the best C-guile playing the best K-blanka, so it shows the matchup in its purest form. but i don't remember too much about the actual fight because it was over 2 months ago. i just remember ino JD'ing sonic booms, using standing hk to counter guile's crouching mp, and short jump fierce for AA.

yea, cammy is pretty good against blanka as long as she can fight against RC electricity well.

and eagle is pretty much a counter matchup for blanka. it's obviously open for debate, but the fight boils down to eagle fighting him at close range with crouching mk, punishing baited blanka crouching fp's with eagle's standing fp, and AA'ing with crouching fierce/standing mp depending on the distance and attack from blanka. he can punish RC balls and mp counter RC electricity too.

proof58

10-23-2003, 04:12 AM

to me the best character to beat the crap out of Blanka will be Vega anything he does just c.hp

when he does that blanka ball block then c.hp and they try to jump HK or MK just c.hp and this is gonna kill'em and they'll try to walk to you and c.hk just roll and do that rolling attack or SLAM his ass [o how i heat blanka users] for all of this you do need the claws

they may call this cheap and it is very cheap but I only do it when they pick blanka and if I don't do it I can kiss my ass good bye or who knows my terry be kicking ass to

I once remember to that blanka did that blanka ball at me at I did that lvl.3 super with the Claw and cought him and killed him right there. I destroyed his ego with that one, since he quit on me right there :lol: :D :lol: hey wait that ain't funny :mad:

kcxj

10-25-2003, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by proof58
to me the best character to beat the crap out of Blanka will be Vega anything he does just c.hp

when he does that blanka ball block then c.hp and they try to jump HK or MK just c.hp and this is gonna kill'em and they'll try to walk to you and c.hk just roll and do that rolling attack or SLAM his ass [o how i heat blanka users] for all of this you do need the claws

they may call this cheap and it is very cheap but I only do it when they pick blanka and if I don't do it I can kiss my ass good bye or who knows my terry be kicking ass to

I once remember to that blanka did that blanka ball at me at I did that lvl.3 super with the Claw and cought him and killed him right there. I destroyed his ego with that one, since he quit on me right there :lol: :D :lol: hey wait that ain't funny :mad:

good shit. man, that's cheap.

proof58

11-12-2003, 11:07 PM

YEA my style is Flames

oh one more thing if you see him just walking to you he's gonna try to bite the living hell out of you so just do that backflip kick he does

jae hoon

11-17-2003, 12:13 AM

Eagle kills Blanka, so does Hibiki, he can compete with anyone else.

proof58

11-18-2003, 07:43 PM

i get how eagle can beat blanka by doin does counters and the circle thing

but hibiki? I think she sucks (no offense just MO)

rock can also beat this character but you'll need c groove or even better ex with c-groove and super combo cancel when they do a ball or jump at you do a lvl2 qcfx2 + k and the end d, u + p and if he in the wall finish it with a raging storm

Gwai Lo ½

11-18-2003, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by proof58
or even better ex with c-groove

...of course!

MegaZangief

11-18-2003, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by proof58
i get how eagle can beat blanka by doin does counters and the circle thing

Actually Eagle beats blanka because he has superior pokes...

proof58

11-20-2003, 09:08 PM

actualy blanka can do that c.hp or s.hk to beat his pokes

Apoc

11-21-2003, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by proof58
actualy blanka can do that c.hp or s.hk to beat his pokes

I'm just going to interject. The only thing that can save Blanka from Eagle is good RCing or a parry. But in the majority of all cases, Eagle can beast all over that beast. It is so easy to rushdown even good blankas with Eagle. Eagle vs. Blanka is a joke. Sure, Blanka can win, but I say the match is 7-3 in Eagle's favor.

On a side note, I believe that RCing can only be a winning factor in Japanese style playing. Side by side, you can hear buttons during a dash or wake up and toss 'em around. Still, RCing is effective especially on wake-up. Then Eagle has to eat the damage, waste a meter on countering, or RC RH flying thingy(like I care what the stupid names of moves are. HCB+K) for a clean escape while they're electricuting.

I fully believe that RCing is the only way for Blanka to truly compete in this match.

But I suppose it takes more to learn Eagle than Blanka so...the learning curve may be in Blanka's favor a tad. Still, both ranging and poking and rushdown are effective against Blanka in all grooves.

Just my old fogey opinion.

Apoc.

proof58

11-24-2003, 02:11 AM

in rush down i believe he'll beat him but how they gonna get away from the blanka ball?

anyway Forget what I sead About using Vega to beat this green mother fucker

use rugal I mean its now even funny when they use blanka ball use that running move that he slams you in the wall (HCB + P) and end it with a super (you don't need super combo cancel to do this) when i 1st this this i was suprise that i cought his ass with this after that is was over for them

lil strat.

throw a crisom wave (f + hcf + P) they'll block it or roll and if don't even better and don't worry blanka can't jump high enough to jump this projectile. anyway they'll do a blanka ball cuase they stupid like that :cool: and right there do that running move.

ok now after awhile they will change strategy so all you need to do is do stuff that will make them do a blanka ball

I remember once i use to throw a lp and they'll do the blanka ball is probally just there instincts

and if they do the ball super you can still catch them with it if you catch them after the invisibility framesand if they do a lvl1 super SLAM his ass for me please

Gwai Lo ½

11-24-2003, 10:23 AM

I dont even know if you are being serious or not.

proof58

11-24-2003, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by Gwai Lo ½
I dont even know if you are being serious or not.

you don't believe me try it out and if you can't "come and get me"(cyclops qoute :) I love him :) ) i'm online almost everyday whats your gametag

and use blanka

Ryumexicano

11-24-2003, 10:39 PM

Hibiki owns the shit out of Blanka. If Blanka is in P-groove or K-groove or S, he has more of a chance to do some damage to Hibiki. I think Hibiki is damn good against every character. I just think Hibiki rocks. That little chick is cool.

Ryumexicano

That's just my opinion of course!

COMING SOON!

Spanish speaking fighters and for everyone!

http://www.fightforever.net

DooM

11-24-2003, 11:00 PM

i think even if blanka gets hit or blocked, he can still hit her with blanka ball after her bnb *at least with the slash*....

Burghy

11-24-2003, 11:42 PM

great... spanish speaking rugal players throwing kaiser waves against blanka...

Ryumexicano

11-24-2003, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by Burghy
great... spanish speaking rugal players throwing kaiser waves against blanka...

What was that supposed to mean?

Is that sarcasm?

:bluu: :rolleyes: ;)

Gwai Lo ½

11-25-2003, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by Apoc

I'm just going to interject. The only thing that can save Blanka from Eagle is good RCing or a parry. But in the majority of all cases, Eagle can beast all over that beast. It is so easy to rushdown even good blankas with Eagle. Eagle vs. Blanka is a joke. Sure, Blanka can win, but I say the match is 7-3 in Eagle's favor.

On a side note, I believe that RCing can only be a winning factor in Japanese style playing. Side by side, you can hear buttons during a dash or wake up and toss 'em around. Still, RCing is effective especially on wake-up. Then Eagle has to eat the damage, waste a meter on countering, or RC RH flying thingy(like I care what the stupid names of moves are. HCB+K) for a clean escape while they're electricuting.

I fully believe that RCing is the only way for Blanka to truly compete in this match.

But I suppose it takes more to learn Eagle than Blanka so...the learning curve may be in Blanka's favor a tad. Still, both ranging and poking and rushdown are effective against Blanka in all grooves.

Just my old fogey opinion.

Apoc.

I think k blanka wins this match.. low jump and jd kill a lot of eagles attacks. And i dont just mean low jump attacks, but the whole mix up that goes with it... for me I think rc lariat is not 100% reliable against low jumps, (at least on reaction, especially if you are in block stun), im not saying its a bad option, im just saying its hard to predict it because blanka can overhead you from like half screen away :lol: Now keep in mind im not saying Eagle gets killed, I think its fairly close, but with k-blankas damage, l3, jd, low jump, vitality, and running attacks, I think it puts eagle at a slight disadvantage. Without low jump it is VERY hard to jump on eagle ..

Apoc

11-26-2003, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by Gwai Lo ½

I think k blanka wins this match.. low jump and jd kill a lot of eagles attacks. And i dont just mean low jump attacks, but the whole mix up that goes with it... for me I think rc lariat is not 100% reliable against low jumps, (at least on reaction, especially if you are in block stun), im not saying its a bad option, im just saying its hard to predict it because blanka can overhead you from like half screen away :lol: Now keep in mind im not saying Eagle gets killed, I think its fairly close, but with k-blankas damage, l3, jd, low jump, vitality, and running attacks, I think it puts eagle at a slight disadvantage. Without low jump it is VERY hard to jump on eagle ..

I have to disagree. Midcounter and RC spin along with jump up mk negate short jump Blanka more often than not. K-Blanka is a bit more difficult to rush down with any jump ins but succumbs more to throws for trying to JD jump ins which is far worse than merely blocking them from a rushing down Eagle.

How does Blanka keep Eagle in blockstun for a low jump? I'm quite sure that's not possible. Also, if Eagle is in C, I don't see K-Blanka being able to come in, charge, and land his super at all. C can turtle up and AC once to substantially decrease the time K-Blanka has to use his meter.

The damage does even out the match some if you get your licks in while raged but...one AC and the chances of getting a hit while raged get knocked. Eagle sits there and dashes back any time Blanka walks forward. If Blanka gets close enough to short jump he gets AC'd.

IMO, Blanka's best bet is going for hops into bites and mixing that in with the hop into super. Sure, it's random, but it'll get you some throws in, evening the match some and you might get a lucky super as Eagle starts to try and reverse throws.

In any other game, I'd say relying on a simple mix-up for a random hit is no real strategy but, this is CvS2 and stupid shit works in this game(roll super, roll cc for example). So that retarded mix-up can actually do something for you. Take that mix-up out and I'd say that Blanka is at a worse disadvantage than grooves without short jump because he can't super whenever he wants(or cc) and Eagle can just stick to a couple of options to ensure little or no use of the rage meter.

Just my opinion.

Apoc.

Gwai Lo ½

11-26-2003, 07:27 AM

Hmm, I think blanka can get in and start doing running poke strings, and mix up with low jumps in there, not just random low jumps, if you block 1 low jump attack you have lost like 60% of your bar,

Blanka has a lot more anti air options than to jd. Jump fierce, up ball, or hop back, granted j fierce isnt the best against a c-eagle, but i play a - perhaps c-eagle is beats blanka, but i dont think a-eagle does.

and yes, eagle can zone a k-blanka out with fierce punches and sweeps, back dashes, or whatever, but the fierces become less useful against jd, and any closer than that he is inside his range for just about anything. Im just saying blanka can get you once and by the time you get knocked down your guard bar is flashing.

And like i said before I think its a really close matchup, I dont think eagle gets killed in any way. And this is the last you'll hear out of me on the matter :)

jreinert13

11-26-2003, 11:37 AM

Eagle can't really rely on RC spin move and counter special to stop Blanka's low jump because Blanka can mix it up with super jump crossup. If Eagle does any of those anti low jump moves when Blanka crosses him he loses like 25% of his life.

I agree that Eagle does very well against Blanka, but it's not really that lop-sided. If I get a knock down with either C or K Blanka that usually puts the match in Blanka's favour and it's difficult for Eagle to escape the pressure. If Blanka dishes out enough damage he doesn't have many issues turtling on Eagle, especially in C Groove.
Eagle just has to wiff one S.Fierce or C.Roundhouse and things can start to fall apart

Apoc

11-26-2003, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by jreinert13
Eagle can't really rely on RC spin move and counter special to stop Blanka's low jump because Blanka can mix it up with super jump crossup. If Eagle does any of those anti low jump moves when Blanka crosses him he loses like 25% of his life.

Blanka has trails on a superjump(jump back ownz it anyway).

Apoc.

Buktooth

11-26-2003, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by Apoc
On a side note, I believe that RCing can only be a winning factor in Japanese style playing. Side by side, you can hear buttons during a dash or wake up and toss 'em around. Still, RCing is effective especially on wake-up. Then Eagle has to eat the damage, waste a meter on countering, or RC RH flying thingy(like I care what the stupid names of moves are. HCB+K) for a clean escape while they're electricuting.
Don't know a whole lot about Eagle, but I DO know some shit on Blanka.

RC elec is still good on American cabinets. You can do a real simple mix-up of RC elec or hitting 1,2,3, then going for counter hit low short to counter their throw. Off the counter hit low short, link another low short, stand jab, ball/super.
IMO, Blanka's best bet is going for hops into bites and mixing that in with the hop into super. Sure, it's random, but it'll get you some throws in, evening the match some and you might get a lucky super as Eagle starts to try and reverse throws.

In any other game, I'd say relying on a simple mix-up for a random hit is no real strategy but, this is CvS2 and stupid shit works in this game(roll super, roll cc for example). So that retarded mix-up can actually do something for you. Take that mix-up out and I'd say that Blanka is at a worse disadvantage than grooves without short jump because he can't super whenever he wants(or cc) and Eagle can just stick to a couple of options to ensure little or no use of the rage meter.

Just my opinion.

Apoc.
Hop into super/bite is more of a parlor trick than anything else. Even if RCed, there's a ton of recovery on Blanka's manual hop that's pretty easily punishable if somebody's looking for it.

Off topic, but how is roll super any worse than say, tick throws in ST? Both have a huge randomness/scrubby factor.

kcxj

11-27-2003, 04:00 AM

Originally posted by Apoc
IMO, Blanka's best bet is going for hops into bites and mixing that in with the hop into super. Sure, it's random, but it'll get you some throws in, evening the match some and you might get a lucky super as Eagle starts to try and reverse throws.

That doesn't work...

In any other game, I'd say relying on a simple mix-up for a random hit is no real strategy but, this is CvS2 and stupid shit works in this game(roll super, roll cc for example). So that retarded mix-up can actually do something for you.

err... start playing better people before you hate on CvS2 like that.

-------------------

Buktooth:

Also, I've had my Blanka d.LK's (not that amazing startup) flat beaten by throws before. The fact that it hits low can make it vulnerable to properly set up dash, throw especially (characters with the bunny hop style dashes... Cammy, Bison, etc...). Setting up a counter hit by dashing forward is not something I can depend on to work consistently. Bison's s.LP on the other hand...

(edited this post by adding the word "buktooth" to clear up some confusion)

Apoc

11-27-2003, 05:17 AM

Originally posted by kcxj

That doesn't work...

[B]

err... start playing better people before you hate on CvS2 like that.

Also, I've had my Blanka d.LK's (not that amazing startup) flat beaten by throws before. The fact that it hits low can make it vulnerable to properly set up dash, throw especially (characters with the bunny hop style dashes... Cammy, Bison, etc...). Setting up a counter hit by dashing forward is not something I can depend on to work consistently. Bison's s.LP on the other hand...

lol. It actually does work. About playing better ppl? Be serious.

As for hating on CvS2, I can hate on any game I choose. If not for the ratio system I would love the game. There's a lot in it that I really like. The ratio system itself leads to just about everything I don't like in the game. Take that out along with recovering damage and it would be perfect. As is, you see many games where running away is done solely to charge up and to keep the opponent from gaining more meter back. I prefer a little more fighting in fighting games. But, hey. It works. Although I've never, personally, heard more complaints of boredom about another great game. Gotta take the boring aspects out. Trim the fat and such.

Lastly, you only get thrown out of a short when you mistime it. Think about it.

Watch SBO footage. There was a pretty stupid, yet entertaining match of sheer runaway in the final four. Proof positive that not fighting is a good strategy in that fighting game.

Buktooth:for one, the damage. 2, you see a lot more successful ticks nowadays than years past. Because US level of ST is pretty low. Not a new comment, been saying that for the last 6 years. US level was much higher years ago. Lotta new jacks comin' up so maybe ppl will have to get better but it hasn't been so necessary.

as for differences. It's not random, range is a factor and so is timing. The only time it can possibly be random is if both players throw at the exact same time(which doesn't really happen although anyone can argue that it does...but it doesn't) but...then, you can tech.

Roll-super is on another level. It's wonderful. Iori roll-throw roll dp is funny as hell. This newbie scrub here almost ocv'd Watson with it. Dude does NOT know how to play. I'm not saying it's smart, but it can be hella effective with fast rolls or "freezing" level3s. Don't you love when you go to toss a fast roll and you whiff in the wrong direction? I just think it's hella funny. You think it's uber-scrubby, and it is. I've seen many good players get hit by roll-super and roll-cc. To me, that shit is mad funny. There are actual set ups with Rog and Bison that range it so that it's nearly unblockable. Rog's is nastiest with his nice roll. I've seen a few Bison's in Japan use it to make comebacks. I can send you the vids. It's hilarious. Too bad you can't tech a roll-super:P Clear difference don't ya think?

Desperation acts can be game-saving and entertaining but...that shit is pure comedy when it works. It's even fun...in a shitty sort of way.

Apoc.

jreinert13

11-27-2003, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by Apoc

Blanka has trails on a superjump(jump back ownz it anyway).

Apoc.

The point in time where the trails appear on the screen is the nearly the exact point when I press roundhouse for a low jump.

more clearly, this is what my opponent sees:
you see Blanka jump slightly off the ground (like half a character height..there are no trails yet), it's either going to follow with an early jump roundhouse->back hop or trails from the super jump. If you're doing a motion anti air, you don't have the time to see which one it is..unless you can do RC lariat or counter between the time I press roundhouse and the kick animation hits, right after reacting instantly to the super jump/low jump mixup. Not very reliable heh.. even if you buffer the motion.

I'm not saying it's foolproof by any means..but if you play and position yourself properly you can easily make your opponent think another low jump is coming and catch him off guard. I've done it countless times..
The best option for Eagle is probably to wait for a super jump and jump back forward or something. This is what Gwai Lo 1/2 does after he sees his counter/lariat get crossed up(it is a lot of damage)...it works but it still allows a couple of low jumps to get in, which is what Blanka wants. I, being K Blanka, don't mind taking a couple of jump back hits to keep that mix up in tact.

It doesn't even need to be a super jump. After a S.Jab you can crossup with a regular jump, and S.Jab low jump Fierce is a great pressure string. Again if Eagle looks for the low jump, and Blanka ends up regular jumping..the situation again shifts in Blanka's favour.

kcxj

11-27-2003, 02:09 PM

Blanka's low short hits in 4 frames. Punch throws grab in 3. Trying to beat a throw with a Blanka low short is depending on your opponent to mess up.

I don't know how good Watson is in person, but I've watched his match videos before. He loses to roll, whatever because he doesn't play safe with Ryu. If you're going to be poking with straight up hadokens at midrange or doing stuff like short x3, sweep xx hadoken of course I'm going to roll through and punish every time with Iori.

Watson had it easy against that Iori scrub if you ask me. I would of done jab, fierce xx rekka combo for twice as much damage as a dp instead.

Buktooth

11-27-2003, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by Apoc
Buktooth:for one, the damage. 2, you see a lot more successful ticks nowadays than years past. Because US level of ST is pretty low. Not a new comment, been saying that for the last 6 years. US level was much higher years ago. Lotta new jacks comin' up so maybe ppl will have to get better but it hasn't been so necessary.

as for differences. It's not random, range is a factor and so is timing. The only time it can possibly be random is if both players throw at the exact same time(which doesn't really happen although anyone can argue that it does...but it doesn't) but...then, you can tech.
To whoever started this thread, sorry to bring this shit way off topic. I can have somebody delete this post (and other related ones later) if you want.

Damage on throws is low in ST? It ranges from 15% if you tech, to around 30% if you don't tech, are an old character, or are low on life already. For no meter and for mashing, that's a pretty big payoff imo. Also, a teched throw often leads into a set up for another tick throw.

As for more successful ticks nowadays, I myself tend to do pretty well against even the established ST players of yonder. And *I* know there isn't a whole lot of strategy to my game. Hold forward and mash on strong when I can (for ghetto option select tick throw/3 hit combo that usually dizzies), or run away and build meter when I can't. I'll be the first to admit that I rely on scrub tactics to win in this game, yet I still manage to hold my own against the greats... with tick throws being the equalizer.

Throws are VERY random. I've seen EVERYBODY lose by getting thrown in a situation where they "should've won the throw". How many times have you been in thrown in situations like: walking under the opponent's jump, after blocking their uppercut/super, after they whiff a move, etc? It happens to everybody.

Apoc

11-27-2003, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by kcxj
Blanka's low short hits in 4 frames. Punch throws grab in 3. Trying to beat a throw with a Blanka low short is depending on your opponent to mess up.

I don't know how good Watson is in person, but I've watched his match videos before. He loses to roll, whatever because he doesn't play safe with Ryu. If you're going to be poking with straight up hadokens at midrange or doing stuff like short x3, sweep xx hadoken of course I'm going to roll through and punish every time with Iori.

Watson had it easy against that Iori scrub if you ask me. I would of done jab, fierce xx rekka combo for twice as much damage as a dp instead.

You've gotten confused. I would never try and beat a throw with a low short with Blanka, lol. If that's what you meant in your original post than I assumed wrong. I assumed that you meant you got thrown when trying to use short as they woke up or something similar. I don't know what to think now but, you're mistaken to think that "I" was implying a short to be a counter to a throw. However, if you're talking about mere walk up throws, knowing the frames is pointless if you don't calculate distance into it, heheh. Why bring up frames at all here? A one frame difference doesn't illustrate your point(made from confusion) at all.

As for Iori and Watson having an easy time. Watson's used to some kind of thinking, lol. As for using jab instead of DP? You can get thrown out of that if the throw to the roll came a tad late. The dp would hit in that case. Sure, jab would be smarter, which is why Watts had his throws dp'd everytime. Dude was playing stupid and did well. That's it in a nutshell. Dude was pretty effective against Cole a couple of weeks later. Are you gonna come up with another excuse there?

The dude has never been effective against me solely because when I play any Iori I am constantly watching for the roll and I'll toss it around for fun and then watch them try and figure out how to play without the roll. Pretty funny. Fact is, some rolls are so good that you just have to watch for them all day or you'll get caught. Even if you know what you're doing.

You can make a thread or something. Buk is right, this topic isn't worth the tangent.

Buktooth:There are no really good ST players left in the US, imo. All of the good players(that I played with anyway) were far better years ago. For example, Watson uses Rog as a main now. Ryu was his main before. He just realizes that he's not nearly as capable with Ryu as he once was. It's just hard to tell that we're wack until all sorts of new folks step up.
As for throws in general...I'll have to disagree. On a mediocre level, sure. Still, I was merely clarifying one difference. I didn't think it was necessary to actually point out every way that the two are that different. Ah well.

Apoc.

kcxj

11-28-2003, 03:34 AM

....

Sorry to bring up frame data again, but Iori's s.LP hits in 2 frames. His DP takes 4 frames. I know for sure Buktooth can attest to that.

The point I'm trying to make is if a 4 frame DP will beat out a throw attempt, then there's no reason a 2 frame standing jab will not beat it out (and for twice as much damage) as well.

Ryu can't tech a throw when he's still in recovery from a hadoken (which is significantly long in this game). I don't know what crazy tricks you and Watson have, but by the time most people throw a Ryu fireball, I've had enough time to roll twice with Iori already.

As for the stuff you're telling Blanka players to do against Eagle... Blanka can't do something like instant forward hop, super. He needs to sit and charge first. So unless you have some kind of super secret Japanese trick, I seriously don't see how you can base an entire gameplan strategy (versus Eagle in this case) around mixing up hop, throw and hop, super.

Just like you watch for Iori to roll, I can watch for Blanka to hop too. Free Eagle d.MK.

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My other excuse right here:

I think the reason Cole was having trouble against that Iori guy was because he tries to go for the "shinakuma unblockable" too much (low jump HK, Tiger raid!!) :lol:.

I really like how you pretty much imply that even talking to me isn't worth your time though... yeah, maybe I will go make a new thread. I'll leave you alone so you can be busting out your c.LK x 4, d.MK combos at Murakumo's house :eek: :eek: :confused:.

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/thread28781.php

Apoc

11-28-2003, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by kcxj
....

Sorry to bring up frame data again, but Iori's s.LP hits in 2 frames. His DP takes 4 frames. I know for sure Buktooth can attest to that.

The point I'm trying to make is if a 4 frame DP will beat out a throw attempt, then there's no reason a 2 frame standing jab will not beat it out (and for twice as much damage) as well.

Ryu can't tech a throw when he's still in recovery from a hadoken (which is significantly long in this game). I don't know what crazy tricks you and Watson have, but by the time most people throw a Ryu fireball, I've had enough time to roll twice with Iori already.

As for the stuff you're telling Blanka players to do against Eagle... Blanka can't do something like instant forward hop, super. He needs to sit and charge first. So unless you have some kind of super secret Japanese trick, I seriously don't see how you can base an entire gameplan strategy (versus Eagle in this case) around mixing up hop, throw and hop, super.

Just like you watch for Iori to roll, I can watch for Blanka to hop too. Free Eagle d.MK.

-----------------

My other excuse right here:

I think the reason Cole was having trouble against that Iori guy was because he tries to go for the "shinakuma unblockable" too much (low jump HK, Tiger raid!!) :lol:.

I really like how you pretty much imply that even talking to me isn't worth your time though... yeah, maybe I will go make a new thread. I'll leave you alone so you can be busting out your c.LK x 4, d.MK combos at Murakumo's house :eek: :eek: :confused:.

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/thread28781.php

I've never really been too into the whole frame data thing but, unless Iori's dp sucks, regardless of 4 frames, some of those frames should be invincible. That won't happen with a jab. Maybe I'm wrong. But then, I've seen jabs be eaten by supers more often than vice versa and I've seen DPs whoop on supers(talkin' lvl1 here). If the only difference were frames then I don't see why this would occur.

Again, you've assumed that this player was smart(the one playing Watson). You KEEP assuming that Watson was tossing fireballs. No, the guy literally rolls randomly. He's not waiting for a fireball at all. RANDOM. You grabbed this fireball notion from someone other than myself so why keep pushing it like it's any issue?

As for the Blanka thing. You don't need to sit and charge. You can attack and charge, but...ok. Maybe you're the only Blanka that doesn't know the hop into super trick. It's not super secrect and has been pretty common for some time. You charge back, go to neutral while pressing 2 kick buttons, then finish the super motion and press the button, timed, so that it coincides with the recovery of the hop. There you go. Hop into super. As for the free, cr.mk. That's what Blanka wants you to do cuz, see, if you just blocked, he'd have wasted a super. Since you hit the mk, you just lost half of your vitality. That's why the mix up works. Of course, it's best used in C where Blanka can RC the hop too. But generally, this is cancelled from a low forward which puts you in blockstun and doesn't give your move enough time to fully extend. I think it's also obvious that a Blanka hop is a bit faster than Iori's roll. Also, it goes over low moves. Good luck in timing that shit so he lands on it, heheh. Amazing how Buktooth even talks as if it exists yet you still reply to me as if it doesn't or you can't understand what I'm talking about.

It's great to see that once you stop really competing, you get no credit for thinking.

As for talking about Cole. Now you're being an ass. Please, insult his play after you're on his level.

Do yourself a favor and learn not to assume. I "pretty much implied" nothing. I'm a "call it like I see it" kinda guy and I'll say what I choose. If I wanted to be rude, I simply would have. You, however, are acting like an ass at this point.

Seriously, you aren't that good. You just aren't. If you didn't even know about hop into super yet, your knowledge is limited. You're no Watson and you're no Cole. These guys were good before any books with frame rates and info, before SRK and websites were around to give you free information and teach you how to play, and both were masters of their characters and the authorities of them on multiple games. They could play just fine before consoles were an issue too. Seriously, go to the arcade and play and never go on websites and then go win tournies. Seriously, you aren't even close to these guys. They were on top for about 10 years. You're a scrub by comparison. An arrogant one, though. I'll give you that.

Apoc.

noodleman

11-28-2003, 08:00 AM

There is one way i found to "hide" the fact that you are charging...you what you can do is jump in (small jump mk for example) while charging, then hop back, then hop forward xx super. I think this way you can play a very good mix up between hop throw and hop grab. and if you get the grab, don't forget to try and cross up super every once in a while!

Gwai Lo ½

11-28-2003, 08:02 AM

Did you say that the super coincides with the recovery? (I know what hop super is) But there's no way that that super cancels the recovery of the hop, there is still recovery on the move, and significant recovery at that. Eagle can punish hop super easily, but you have to time it right, but if the person is relying on it there is of course a chance you will fuck up once.. But yea, if you do block they waste a super, I dont think a potentially meter wasting strat (its not like random activate where you still have what like 48% of your meter if you get hit, or a blocked string if they block).

I've even fallen for hop super trying to punish with eagle low mk, but i've also punished many attempted hop supers, because blanka will land on eagle mk if you time it right and there's nothing blanka can do about it. If they cancel it out of a c.mk they will be thrown really easily because of where they land.

Oh, and I dont even know what kcxj is posting about any more. Ive lost track of the point he was trying to make..

Anyway, I wasnt going to post again but .. yea...

Burghy

11-28-2003, 09:39 AM

NON STOP MEAT!!!

FMJaguar

11-28-2003, 11:07 AM

Blanka can poke all he wants but he's not going to get real damage unless he uses fierce/rh, and most of those can be punsihed lots of ways. This gives characters like kyo/iori an oppourtunity because they can carry any random hit into 2-3k damage, and characters like eagle who can match pokes then kick in the c.fwd/super (or crossup). He doesn't nessecarily need to go into fierce/rh like someone mentioned earlier, he can combo a super, blanka can't as easily.

Anyway i still think that most of people in the game do well on blanka. The reason blanka is a problem, is because his damage is so braindead you need to play your character at a high level just to match. As the skill level goes up, blanka starts dropping IMO.

As for the frame data thing, i see that people are enjoying the science of it all, but remember that it's still in the context of the game. Just because something is 1-2 frames faster, doesn't mean in a game the person is going to be pressing the button at the excat frame to make it happen, just like we know that you can *always* Roll/RC to escape a meaty, but i'll still throw it out there and dare my opponent to try it, doesn't matter who. Timing like that is not in the player's favor, keep it in mind.

kcxj

11-28-2003, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Gwai Lo ½
Oh, and I dont even know what kcxj is posting about any more. Ive lost track of the point he was trying to make..

-Iori should do the most damage he can everytime he rolls smartly.
-Watson doesn't look like he plays very safe from the one MATCH VIDEO I saw.
-My original point: Relying on a gimmick like hop, super isn't a solid gameplay strategy.
-My new point: Relying on a gimmick like hop, super is apparently only something arrogant West Coast players do now.

You need to chill, Apoc. Everybody's who's not you doesn't automatically mean they're a scrub. Either that or please read my posts more throughly before you decide to reply from now on.

Posting on this forum is something I do help me get better. Quite frankly, I haven't learned a single useful thing about CvS2 from anyone in this forum for the past 8 months. I do however, learn a lot from playing casual and tourney matches at both the arcade and on console. I'm the kind of player that needs to write things down so I don't forget it later (the reason I post here).

If I see something I don't agree with, I'm not going to hesitate to point it out though.

Apoc

11-28-2003, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by kcxj

You need to chill, Apoc. Everybody's who's not you doesn't automatically mean they're a scrub. Either that or please read my posts more throughly before you decide to reply from now on.

You should chill, instead. You assume plenty of what you get from your reading and, imo, had original animosity towards me. There was no reason to start insulting me. Now if you have a problem with me telling you like it is in regards to Cole and Watson, you should add a little realism to the argument before assuming anything. One match video? Are you serious? It would be better to assume that it was merely ONE match video and not a true representation of play. There's some pretty ridiculous matches of myself online where plenty of friends that I've played regularly can't even understand wth I'm doing. Some days you're focused, some days you're not. Sometimes you've practiced, sometimes you haven't. You draw solid conclusion from too little and assume too much. You're starting to sound fixated. Get over it.

Gwai lo:What I meant by "coincides with the recovery of the hop" was hitting the button upon fully recovering...but not later. Meaning, right when you actually recover, not while recovering.

Apoc.

Ryumexicano

11-28-2003, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by Apoc

You should chill, instead. You assume plenty of what you get from your reading and, imo, had original animosity towards me. There was no reason to start insulting me. Now if you have a problem with me telling you like it is in regards to Cole and Watson, you should add a little realism to the argument before assuming anything. One match video? Are you serious? It would be better to assume that it was merely ONE match video and not a true representation of play. There's some pretty ridiculous matches of myself online where plenty of friends that I've played regularly can't even understand wth I'm doing. Some days you're focused, some days you're not. Sometimes you've practiced, sometimes you haven't. You draw solid conclusion from too little and assume too much. You're starting to sound fixated. Get over it.

Gwai lo:What I meant by "coincides with the recovery of the hop" was hitting the button upon fully recovering...but not later. Meaning, right when you actually recover, not while recovering.

Apoc.

I agree 100%. Sometimes you are all wasted and have no clue what you are doing. Sometimes you own everyone and sometimes you just can't win. YOu can't even beat the guy that loses all the time, the scrub guy.

That is just my opinion

www.fightforever.net Coming Soon! Spanish speakers and English speakers are all welcome.

Ryumexicano