How to tell if your Blackheart sucks...

[StiltMan]

Semifinals at Evo? As in, top 5? Was that actually the only team you used or did you mix in a lot else? Or do you mean you got to the semifinals of some pool?

My main beef with jaded isn't that he doesn't agree with me, it's that he's making a lot of noise without a lot of substance, and a lot of the noise seems to be covering for a lot of elements of his game that seem rather shaky to me. And if a truly outlandish claim like, "I taught Julian Robinson how to play BH" were true, someone like sabin, who together with Eddie Lee basically was the east coast's first main threat at national tournaments (if I recall correctly, they both got top 5 at the first national MvC2 tourney at B4), would have at least some idea who he was. Every other name sabin gave, I recognize. This guy, I don't, and if he's claiming to be one of the first old guard BH players, and if neither sabin nor Viscant know who he is, that doesn't say a whole lot for him.

I've used both BH/Cyclops and BH/Commando in tournaments myself, and my experience is that once people stop running into Cyclops as a defensive call he stops being more effective in a hurry. OTOH, it's also possible that BH/Cyclops just needs to be played in a different style than BH/Commando and I need to get more aggressive with it. I've been tinkering with BH/Storm/Cyclops a little lately, I don't think the team's just unpardonably bad, but I'm not at all sold that it's better than Watts.

[BlackHeartKing]

Where the hell have you been?

Void, care to give me some insight on the road to you making Semis last year, like who did you face, how you think you did against em, etc? I'm really curious about this stuff.

school > mvc2 for me mang
damn I desperately wish that I could afford to waste the time and money required to go to evo west :sad:

[StiltMan]

Well, don't feel bad. I'm going to be in crunch mode at the new job until like a week before the main Evo tourney, and then I'm going back up to Portland for a month or so. My daughter's birthday is two days before Evo, so I don't really dare go to the tourney, I'm afraid. :sad:

However, I too would be curious about this "Void in semifinals".

[Blackestheart]

I think I just found a guardbreak with Blackheart and Commando which could be very damaging. When you're in the corner just after you killed off a character, time your superjump so that when you're coming down throw the rh demons. As they come in they block the demons. While they are blocking the demons in the air, you've landed, call commando superjump throw rh demonsxxx into air judgement day and dhc. does pretty good damage. I've tried it against the computer several times today, so I think it works.

Can someone confirm this?

[Void]

Yes it was the main semi finals, not just of my pool. I swept my entire pool, only losing once. I can't recall stratagies and tactics because it was a long time ago, and to be honest, school is top priority for me right now, so I dont have a lot of time to play, and I really haven't played marvel competitivley for the past 7 months. Though, summer is comming so I will have more time to play. If any fellow blackheart players are going to Evo, perhaps we can put together a team.
just a thought.

Just a note to cooscoos: The people I played were no namers, but they were good. I played against MSP, Scrub, Team Steroid, and MSS. My toughest match was with the MSS guy. MSS is a solid team to play against any BH/Sent/AA team because there is not much element of rushdown to fear except from sentinal. He was the only one that was able to beat me once. Everyone else I played was a blur, I know I made a lot of mistakes, but they dident take much advantage to capatalize on them. My sentinal was solid during tourney time, I got a lot of practive playing people like Josh Wigfal and the like in casual play before hand. I think my biggest advantage was the element of suprise, by using a team they may not have fought a lot against, and having a lot of patience against teams like Scrub.

[Blackestheart]

Anybody get a chance to check out my guardbreak yet? Stilt, CoocCoos...

[CoosCoos]

Anybody get a chance to check out my guardbreak yet? Stilt, CoocCoos...

Give me today on it. I'm still tinkering with it, and I'll post tomarrow about it.

[CoosCoos]

I can confirm the guardbreak. That shit is hard to time though. I wanna investigate it some more however.

[Blackestheart]

I can confirm the guardbreak. That shit is hard to time though. I wanna investigate it some more however. Yeah I know. You have to pretty much superjump as soon as the character leaves the screen. The timing is difficult. A lot of the time the character appears on the screen before the fierce demons appear. However if mastered, can lead to Watt's dhc for a sure kill. Pretty nasty heh?

[CoosCoos]

Yeah I know. You have to pretty much superjump as soon as the character leaves the screen. The timing is difficult. A lot of the time the character appears on the screen before the fierce demons appear. However if mastered, can lead to Watt's dhc for a sure kill. Pretty nasty heh?

Yeah you are right about that. It's worth learning the timing for in that regard for real. I got some peculiar questions myself though.

What's the timing for hp thunder xx hod on big characters? Everytime I do it it's either too fast or way too slow.

How do you fight Runaway Storm with BH? Does he lose this just outright? What I try and do is force her to stay midscreen with Infernos and time Cap xx Inferno for when she does sj. Fierces most of the time, and when I can keep her grounded, I try and keep her there. Are there any pokes of BH's that can beat out her cr. lk?

Third, I wanna learn how to play BH/Sent-a/Cable. Why? Just for fun. How does this team work? I can hit the BH/Sent DHC from a Cable assist pretty easily(memorized the timing on the inferno easily), but am I trying to keep opponents grounded pretty much? Also, can this team counter Scrub?

[Blackestheart]

Yeah you are right about that. It's worth learning the timing for in that regard for real. I got some peculiar questions myself though.

What's the timing for hp thunder xx hod on big characters? Everytime I do it it's either too fast or way too slow.

How do you fight Runaway Storm with BH? Does he lose this just outright? What I try and do is force her to stay midscreen with Infernos and time Cap xx Inferno for when she does sj. Fierces most of the time, and when I can keep her grounded, I try and keep her there. Are there any pokes of BH's that can beat out her cr. lk?

Third, I wanna learn how to play BH/Sent-a/Cable. Why? Just for fun. How does this team work? I can hit the BH/Sent DHC from a Cable assist pretty easily(memorized the timing on the inferno easily), but am I trying to keep opponents grounded pretty much? Also, can this team counter Scrub? Well, I honestly never use any of the Dark Thunder specials. I think in my 5 year expieriance with BH, it only came out like twice and those were accidental. I just really don't see any real use for it. It has horrible recovery, and is very punnishable if you miss the cancel.

Like I have said before, BH against Storm is just an all around bad match up. Bh doesn't have anything to beat out her cr.lk. If it does happen that my BH playes against her because of circumstances in the match that lead to this confrontation, in the air next to her I don't do anything but block. Bh has no chance against her in the air. Normally I will just try to safely chip her with infernoxxxHod. Storm seems to eat more chip from this then most characters. However as usual beware of guard cancels.

I do have a lot of exp with Bh and Cable together. Along with Cyke, this used to be my team for a long time. I just really don't think BH benefits from Cable. Since BH needs meter to survive, I just think Cable becomes obsolete in a certain way. The only way I can see this team working against good players is if you start Cable first. For this to work, imo you have to have a really good solid Cable.

As far as countering team Scrub, I don't have too much exp with this team against scrub. I guess the trick is to watch out for commando and try to punnish him every chance you get. Without capcom, I don't see cable being a significant threat. Maybe Stilt has a better knowledge of this match up than I do.

Hope this helps.

Did you get a chance to land the guard break? I've been practicing it and i'm starting to really get the timing now. It's hella damaging.

[CoosCoos]

Well, I honestly never use any of the Dark Thunder specials. I think in my 5 year expieriance with BH, it only came out like twice and those were accidental. I just really don't see any real use for it. It has horrible recovery, and is very punnishable if you miss the cancel.

Like I have said before, BH against Storm is just an all around bad match up. Bh doesn't have anything to beat out her cr.lk. If it does happen that my BH playes against her because of circumstances in the match that lead to this confrontation, in the air next to her I don't do anything but block. Bh has no chance against her in the air. Normally I will just try to safely chip her with infernoxxxHod. Storm seems to eat more chip from this then most characters. However as usual beware of guard cancels.

I do have a lot of exp with Bh and Cable together. Along with Cyke, this used to be my team for a long time. I just really don't think BH benefits from Cable. Since BH needs meter to survive, I just think Cable becomes obsolete in a certain way. The only way I can see this team working against good players is if you start Cable first. For this to work, imo you have to have a really good solid Cable.

As far as countering team Scrub, I don't have too much exp with this team against scrub. I guess the trick is to watch out for commando and try to punnish him every chance you get. Without capcom, I don't see cable being a significant threat. Maybe Stilt has a better knowledge of this match up than I do.

Hope this helps.

Did you get a chance to land the guard break? I've been practicing it and i'm starting to really get the timing now. It's hella damaging.

I got that guard break to work 4 out of the 10 matches I played today. It's better than the 1 out of 30 from yesterday, I'll tell you this much. It does get easier the more you do it.

I'll tell you the problem and why I asked this with Storm. My friend and I had a lot of MSP vs Watts matches yesterday. In all of the matches, I was able to dispatch his Magneto very easily. When he rushed with Storm, I could dispatch that as well. I ran into trouble though when he ran like a mother. I still won the matches, but I found myself mid match having to tag in Sent while Storm is in the air. I'd rather get big damage on her before I go to Sent, but I knew that wasn't possible when she was running.

I want to learn dt xx HOD, for big characters when I hit them with Cap. I have big trouble canceling the Inferno on bigs, as it seems to be way faster, or not possible at all off of him.

But thanks for the insight and the guard break. It could make BH even more deady.

[StiltMan]

Dark thunder/HOD pretty much is, poke into Commando, and throw dark thunder a bit faster than you'd throw the inferno. It is pretty dicey timing, and if I don't have it practiced I often find myself doing it at similar timing to the inferno, which is wrong. But yeah, you pretty much have to use dark thunder on Juggernaut and Sentinel, because inferno doesn't work off of Commando. Inferno works off of Cyclops, Cammy, Guile, and Mega Man-AAA, but not Commando anywhere other than the corner.

Watts versus Scrub is, needless to say, a very interesting matchup. I have heard that Valle used to start Sentinel on Sentinel and then tried to exploit the fact that he had BH/Commando and the other Sentinel only had Commando. I can see some merit in this, but I personally would prefer to start BH on either one of them. BH, interestingly enough, has to play a very similar game plan to be most effective on both Sentinel and Cable. If Sentinel starts and is silly enough to blind rush BH, then this pretty much plays into your hands. It's the people who play Sentinel conservatively and carefully that are the biggest pains. The way you approach a defensive Sentinel is largely the same as the way you approach a runaway Cable: normal jumps forward, call enough drones to keep him honest in the horizontal game (as long as they don't have the meter to mangle him too badly), and generally try to zone him off into the corner and then attack him fairly relentlessly from all the angles once you get him there.

How you manage your meter is a lot of this matchup, and it depends on whether you consider their Sentinel or their Cable to be the most dangerous point char to deal with. If they start Cable, then your mission is to get Cable dead by any means necessary. Whether that's by hitting him with a DHC with BH, or hot tagging Sentinel over a badly placed st. fierce and hit him with a RP into HSF, or whatever... KILL CABLE. Zone him off into a corner relentlessly and make him dead. You don't care if you wind up getting hurt in the process or get both BH and Sentinel roughed up a bit doing this, because if you can get his Sentinel on point with his Cable dead and you're free to trap without worrying about a counter-AHVB, you win this match. Sent/Commando by itself has no business beating Sent/BH/Commando if it's played carefully.

If they start Sentinel, I'll usually start BH regardless, although this is a situation where starting Sentinel is tempting to do. I personally don't tend to do it because I'm happier putting BH on Cable than Sentinel if they choose to start Cable, and you never know what some Scrub players will do. In this case, there's a lot of different options if you get Sentinel hit with something.

If you can get the dark thunder/HOD timing to work, this is a DHC that is very consistent on Sentinel and does quite a lot of damage. BH/Sentinel will DHC that on another Sentinel very, very consistently, there's virtually no timing at all on it after you get the dark thunder to combo off of Commando right. (Of course, that's usually the rub.)

If they're starting Sentinel with Cable in the middle, you can snap in Commando if you get a hit on Sentinel with BH. This is very effective if you've hurt Commando on countercalls a lot, and it's also a pretty much universal way to flat out ruin Team Scrub in any matchup. It's best to do this if you've got enough meter to put up a serious threat to DHC Cable if he just cold tags immediately, but even if you don't, just screwing up the team order is still a serious blow to Team Scrub. There will come a point where they know they're flirting with disaster with Commando in the middle if they tag Cable in. Watts is obviously not the first characters you have in mind when you're thinking that you'll kill Commando immediately, but this is more to simply exploit the fact that Cable can't safely DHC in and that they're running up against a mess whether they tag him, counter him, or just try to pray they can get away with cold tagging back to Sentinel. I believe my last tournament matchup I played against Jackson Chen was won this way, by snapping his Sentinel out for Commando.

Yeah, MSP against Watts is actually a pretty bad matchup for MSP if you play it right.

[CoosCoos]

Thanks for the help with the DT xxx HOD tip. I'll practice it.

The Scrub synopsis was really well put. I knew some of how it is played, but I didn't know how to play it completely. I didn't know about snapping in Commando in this match would help, I will try it out though and see what happens.

Does the Santhrax matchup kind of follow the same suit as well? This seems to be a very tough matchup for me. It's one of the times that I do start Sent for sure. Are there any other teams that a Watts user would consider starting Sent for?

But then it's weird because I start BH agaist Storm/Sent/Cyke, but not Santhrax.....fear commando.

One more thing, is there any way to make good of a double snap? I assume it would have to be corner only stuff, but I am curious.

[BlackHeartKing]

sorry I took so long to get to y'all on all the topics....

1st, that guard break is kinda old actually and very inconsistent. It works on the computer b/c the computer has a habit of just not blocking any attack after the RH until it hits the ground. So it will look like you GBd the computer when you really didn't. However, there is a similar GB (in the corner) that I like to do that is just as affective (I'm pretty sure I've said this b4). After killing a character (best done with them flying through the air as they die from like a JD super) you immediately sj when the dead character hits the ground and throw RH so that it is guarded just as the opponent is entering the screen. You should be moving forward when you throw the RH whether it be just from SJing forward or dashing after the RH so that you land as close to the corner as possible. You then pause and lk, mp as the GBd character falls to the height where the tail can connect. They'll come out of block stun just in time to tail, launch them. From here the options are obvious I hope. On another note, if you use characters like mag and storm and are familiar with the SJxxadRH that's commonly used, you can do that after snapping an enemy in the corner that'll put them in the same position as stated above. This was the new method of GBing a person that I spoke of, but didn't feeling like explaining in great detail.

2nd, how to deal with storm...I got a strategy that I think you'll all love cuz it involves a cross up into the infinite set up. But I'll have to put this when I get home so just practice the 1st part of this post ^_^

[StiltMan]

Any team that can get a feasible snapback on Sentinel can mess up Team Scrub. Even if they don't actually kill Commando, just hurting him, taking away any red bar they managed to put on him, and forcing them into a situation where you throw the team order off and you've got Cable in there with an unsafe DHC is a good thing.

In the case of BH, if you hit a flying Sentinel with demons (which is going to be the most common case) then you can simply land next to him and snap him out before he stops bouncing. BH's snapback looks like it's a very low, sweep like punch but it actually has a fair amount of vertical reach, enough that you don't have to sweat letting them actually land and settle in order to snap them.

[BlackHeartKing]

okay now for the second point...

2nd, if you're playing storm with your BH and you don't want to switch in sentinel for whatever reason you may have you can use this gameplay to make them rethink a lot of the stuff they might do with her. First, for the storm that's so careless that they just super jump while throwing FPs and dashing up, you'd throw random infernos. If they're smart enough to not just go to the air swinging blindly you can use your commando assist (assuming you have it) here's the key to using it though. You wait til you have they're right above you, and just over a SJ distance above your head b4 you call capcom. as soon as you call capcom SJ with a stalled rh demons so that the blocking storm is going to fall into the RH and (here's the trick) dash right over the head of the storm right b4 storm hits the RH to cross her up. what follow is your choice. Also take note that you can do shortened air dashes instead of the full air dash if the opponent gets wise to what you're trying.

3rd, thank you Stilt for bring up the snap block. I happen to love snapping in commando when fighting a sentinel lead team scrub so that there's no safe way to bring cable in. Everything Stilt says applies from there on and if you were playing against sent right, their capcom should've been safely getting punished by yours every time they called him so that he comes in damaged.

As far as I'm concerned, a patient blackheart/commando wins against even a patient sent/commando for the simple reason that none of his close range attacks hit you through your FP. this means that you should be building bar quite fast which means the chip that sentinel is doing can be countered with your own from the far more chipping supers. The details on how to fight sent is really just based on zoning so if there's any problems in particular anyone is having, state them and i'll tell you the best way to fight back.

On another note, when playing a cable that's on point I say USE YOUR GROUND DASH! In any other situation this move is useless, BUT when you have a cable that's safely SJ back (not shooting til they know they won't get hit by infernos) while calling drones or capcom, you can surprise them by dashing under everything which allows you to punish the assist and possibly more.

I can't believe I've giving away all my tricks like this (I wanted to actually get this captured on video to show people first) but there's a very affective way of keeping in a commando assist without fear of retaliation from cable.
whenever you counter a commando assist with your own, SJ with rh (as long as cable isn't already there or on his way up there) so that they hit the recently hit commando assist as it's coming down. At this point you should be very close to the assist and able to d.jp or d.lk it on the way down from the SJ. Most cables will do one of three things when you're coming down on them and they're wihout an assist.
1) They'll try to SJ and punish you as you're punishing their assist, usually with a super in which case you just guard as you're looking for this retaliation the whole time. (they waste bar which makes cable less of a threat)
2) They'll try to dash under you to create space and stop you from attacking their assist, but if you learn to use the dash while close to the assist you can make sure to end up with the assist still between you and cable and you landing first. From here you can launch the assist and immediately cancel to a backwards SJ (this give you instant block even if they ahvb you in which case they waste a bar which is always good) and if they don't catch on to the fact that you can keep the assist in by repeating this method their assist will be kill.
3) they'll try to cross you up into a combo. very rarely will a cable neglect the fact that thei assist is getting punished to cross you up. since cable's dash is much slower than someone like storm or magneto, this should be easy to see coming since the height that you're d.JPing or d.LKing keeps cable still visible on the screen. Note that you can resend commando whenever you are back on the ground to increase damage.

One last thing for playing against team scrumb. if ever you get cable in the corner and you manage to nail the assist and cable at the same time, or nail the assist while cable is off the ground (usually by dashing under anything they throw at you while SJing...follow up with an inferno to armageddon. to me this seems like common sense to me, but most people tend to follow up with HOD or JD from what I've seen. The reasons for using armageddon is this...
1) If you hit cable and the assist the armageddon will do massive damage (obiviously) and leave them with a completely unprotectable assist. from here you'd recall capcom and SJ.jp the cable to keep him blocking and punish the assist. immediately follow the SJ.jp with SJ.rh so that you hitt the assist and from there you can dash and use the assist infinite that I stated above.
2) you can repeat the armageddons chain and cable will still be stuck in the air blocking while capcom receives what is usually the killing blow (only do this if you know the cable isn't going to be able to cut it short with an attack)
3) if you don't have anymore bars and the cable is a defensive one, you can use a generic from of rush down by SJxxd.jp (to make them guard til they hit the ground) and you'll be landing right above their head so that you can either hit them high at the last minute, or pause and hit them with cr.lk, lk + capcom inferno. If timed right, even if they guard all of it, the assist should be getting hit by the cr.lk, lk + capcom (while standing on the ground) b4 it can get off the screen and as long as you don't do this pattern blindly (don't do the inferno if they guard the high/low opportunity) you can repeat the assist chain.

That's about it for the most part. Just pay attention to what the opponent is doing with their cable if you manage to get their capcom with your own in the situation I mentioned. This process once mastered basically forces the cable to waste a bar (any other former of protecting the assist puts them in danger of getting caught in the infinite set up) or trying to cross you up (which keeps them right next to you which is where you want them)

The easiest way to practice this form of assist punishment is to do one of two things in training mode...
1) put the cable in the corner and call the capcom, then proceed to go through what I mentioned to keep the assist in.
2) play the cable right in the middle of the screen and call capcom. then proceed to sj over cable to hit the assist with RH and dash to the other side of the assist.

If I have the time I'll try to record this and put it on youtube or something like that.
And if you have any question about any of what I just said, message me on here and I'll get back to you when I can

[Void]

okay now for the second point...

2nd, if you're playing storm with your BH and you don't want to switch in sentinel for whatever reason you may have you can use this gameplay to make them rethink a lot of the stuff they might do with her. First, for the storm that's so careless that they just super jump while throwing FPs and dashing up, you'd throw random infernos. If they're smart enough to not just go to the air swinging blindly you can use your commando assist (assuming you have it) here's the key to using it though. You wait til you have they're right above you, and just over a SJ distance above your head b4 you call capcom. as soon as you call capcom SJ with a stalled rh demons so that the blocking storm is going to fall into the RH and (here's the trick) dash right over the head of the storm right b4 storm hits the RH to cross her up. what follow is your choice. Also take note that you can do shortened air dashes instead of the full air dash if the opponent gets wise to what you're trying.

3rd, thank you Stilt for bring up the snap block. I happen to love snapping in commando when fighting a sentinel lead team scrub so that there's no safe way to bring cable in. Everything Stilt says applies from there on and if you were playing against sent right, their capcom should've been safely getting punished by yours every time they called him so that he comes in damaged.

As far as I'm concerned, a patient blackheart/commando wins against even a patient sent/commando for the simple reason that none of his close range attacks hit you through your FP. this means that you should be building bar quite fast which means the chip that sentinel is doing can be countered with your own from the far more chipping supers. The details on how to fight sent is really just based on zoning so if there's any problems in particular anyone is having, state them and i'll tell you the best way to fight back.

On another note, when playing a cable that's on point I say USE YOUR GROUND DASH! In any other situation this move is useless, BUT when you have a cable that's safely SJ back (not shooting til they know they won't get hit by infernos) while calling drones or capcom, you can surprise them by dashing under everything which allows you to punish the assist and possibly more.

I can't believe I've giving away all my tricks like this (I wanted to actually get this captured on video to show people first) but there's a very affective way of keeping in a commando assist without fear of retaliation from cable.
whenever you counter a commando assist with your own, SJ with rh (as long as cable isn't already there or on his way up there) so that they hit the recently hit commando assist as it's coming down. At this point you should be very close to the assist and able to d.jp or d.lk it on the way down from the SJ. Most cables will do one of three things when you're coming down on them and they're wihout an assist.
1) They'll try to SJ and punish you as you're punishing their assist, usually with a super in which case you just guard as you're looking for this retaliation the whole time. (they waste bar which makes cable less of a threat)
2) They'll try to dash under you to create space and stop you from attacking their assist, but if you learn to use the dash while close to the assist you can make sure to end up with the assist still between you and cable and you landing first. From here you can launch the assist and immediately cancel to a backwards SJ (this give you instant block even if they ahvb you in which case they waste a bar which is always good) and if they don't catch on to the fact that you can keep the assist in by repeating this method their assist will be kill.
3) they'll try to cross you up into a combo. very rarely will a cable neglect the fact that thei assist is getting punished to cross you up. since cable's dash is much slower than someone like storm or magneto, this should be easy to see coming since the height that you're d.JPing or d.LKing keeps cable still visible on the screen. Note that you can resend commando whenever you are back on the ground to increase damage.

One last thing for playing against team scrumb. if ever you get cable in the corner and you manage to nail the assist and cable at the same time, or nail the assist while cable is off the ground (usually by dashing under anything they throw at you while SJing...follow up with an inferno to armageddon. to me this seems like common sense to me, but most people tend to follow up with HOD or JD from what I've seen. The reasons for using armageddon is this...
1) If you hit cable and the assist the armageddon will do massive damage (obiviously) and leave them with a completely unprotectable assist. from here you'd recall capcom and SJ.jp the cable to keep him blocking and punish the assist. immediately follow the SJ.jp with SJ.rh so that you hitt the assist and from there you can dash and use the assist infinite that I stated above.
2) you can repeat the armageddons chain and cable will still be stuck in the air blocking while capcom receives what is usually the killing blow (only do this if you know the cable isn't going to be able to cut it short with an attack)
3) if you don't have anymore bars and the cable is a defensive one, you can use a generic from of rush down by SJxxd.jp (to make them guard til they hit the ground) and you'll be landing right above their head so that you can either hit them high at the last minute, or pause and hit them with cr.lk, lk + capcom inferno. If timed right, even if they guard all of it, the assist should be getting hit by the cr.lk, lk + capcom (while standing on the ground) b4 it can get off the screen and as long as you don't do this pattern blindly (don't do the inferno if they guard the high/low opportunity) you can repeat the assist chain.

That's about it for the most part. Just pay attention to what the opponent is doing with their cable if you manage to get their capcom with your own in the situation I mentioned. This process once mastered basically forces the cable to waste a bar (any other former of protecting the assist puts them in danger of getting caught in the infinite set up) or trying to cross you up (which keeps them right next to you which is where you want them)

The easiest way to practice this form of assist punishment is to do one of two things in training mode...
1) put the cable in the corner and call the capcom, then proceed to go through what I mentioned to keep the assist in.
2) play the cable right in the middle of the screen and call capcom. then proceed to sj over cable to hit the assist with RH and dash to the other side of the assist.

If I have the time I'll try to record this and put it on youtube or something like that.
And if you have any question about any of what I just said, message me on here and I'll get back to you when I can

Great strats BHking, I never thought of using armageddon. I do know that if you gaurd break in the corner, and the infernoxxarmg. it's massive damage, with little to no worry about retaiation, but I have always considered it unsafe to use armg. a lot, especially when playing cable.

Also, using BH's dash us effective, but can get you murdered if not used right, so make sure cable can't rertaliate to quickly when you go to dash, recovery time is not to fast (unless you are the computer, in which case its instant lol) and you can get tagged with AHVB. A good tactic I learned from a friend to use is when you are in danger with BH vs. Cable and you need a safe DHC, when you are up in the air, and he throws a nade, pushblock and immediatly do air judgment, and then cancel into HSF fast, the will leave cable in block stun from the demons long enough to get sent in safley. Air Judgment is often underestemated, but can be very effective against a ill placed HSF or AHVB, with very safe DHC options.


Random simple DHC w/tron: (in the corner) c.lk, c.lk+tron, TigerKnee into air judgment xx HSF, bnb/unfly combo, into whatever you want. Simple but very damaging sequence.

[StiltMan]

Just as a heads up, I believe they recorded about four of my matches at yesterday's Fairfield tournament, all of them involving Sent/BH teams. One was a first round match against Larry S (yes, a rematch from the last tournament) where I went to Sent/BH/Cyclops because he went to Clockwork in the first game. Two were against Crizzle -- one where I went 2-0 with Watts against his MSP in the winners' bracket, and the other was in the losers' finals where he started with Spiral/Cable/Sentinel against Watts because he gave up on trying to beat it with MSP after the first match, which I managed to lose before I unwisely gave into the temptation to mirror match the Spiral/Cable/Sentinel, won that one, then he went back to MSP and beat my Spiral team and I wasn't able to make good on going back to Watts. The other was winners' finals against Chunk, where I basically got torn up in various degrees of ugliness. The second game was weird, his Storm should have died in a HSF and inexplicably just drops out of getting hit with the upper row of drones, and his Sentinel would have come in next in very bad shape with a fairly wounded Mags in back. Both Chunk and I were not sure what happened there, but it wound up being fairly game changing.

[Void]

Chunk is wayyyy too good, post vids asap plz. :)

[StiltMan]

The guy who took the video ought to be posting them, at least I hope he will.

[Void]

posting them where?

[CoosCoos]

On youtube usually.

*edit* Stilt you use Spiral/Cable/Sent? Is that a guilty pleasure team?

I know sometimes I use Row as a guilty pleasure team for me.

[StiltMan]

Yeah, I play Spiral. Well enough that Duc has been trying to lobby me to adopt her as one of my mainstay characters since he saw me using her at B5. But my BH is way better than my Spiral. The last time I used Spiral in a tournament before I gave into the unwise urge to mirror match against Crizzle's Spiral/Cable/Sentinel was somewhere around 2004, when I used that team against Rairu in a Seattle tournament because I (correctly) suspected that it would completely throw him for a loop to have to fight against Spiral.

But yeah, I'm at least semi-competent with most of the good characters except Magneto.

[Mixah]

stilt.

how could i get around bh's ground assist? this dude i play uses that sometimes, and i'm always running into it... what works against that?

[StiltMan]

Well, you'd probably want to think of it as being similar to Mag-A, except that if it hits you it's going to knock you across full screen. It also is probably going to break super armor, although I'm not sure, so stuff like Doom's rocks and Sentinel's drones might get stopped by it.

Aside from that, I would tend to say that it's not going to be that much different from Mag-A in terms of what to do about it. Horizontal assist. I'd actually tend to consider it a waste of BH's assist potential; the inferno column's ability to act like a tracking Commando is so good for controlling the vertical space of the arena and there's so many other ways to do the horizontal part with almost anything else that I'd consider the dark thunder assist to b e a waste.

[Mixah]

thank you sir.

[Deathfist]

3 questions. [I hate asking questions as it's kinda embarassing...]

1 What's the best team for taking down Mags-a, Cable-b, Sent-a whether you're using BH or not
2 What's the best BH based team for taking down the aforementioned team?
3 What's the best method of implementing BH against that team?

[BlackHeartKing]

stilt.

how could i get around bh's ground assist? this dude i play uses that sometimes, and i'm always running into it... what works against that?

who does this guy use with that blackheart assist and who do you play with? with the exception of very few matchups, that assist should never get the chance to activate.

as for deathfist's question. when you have BH against mag, you don't want to try to counter sent-a with sent-a. you want to have sent-y cuz it'll not only stop mag from getting close when done with j.fp but it'll stop the sent-a assist outright b4 it can ever hit you or the assist (as long as you don't call your sent-y right as or right after your opponent calls sent-a)

b/c of what I started above, the most logical bh team to use is team watts. as for the strategy to implement...first make space (how you do it really depends on you at the start of the match). once you have the space, proceed to j.fp and sent-y. an impatient mag probably won't be able to get through this, however, if they don't blindly run into all the stuff that you have on the screen, you just change up the pattern. also, surprisingly enough, jump back with rh and jump straight up with rh is damn affective against the mags the try to get to you on the ground. as long as you have them at 3/4 to full screen they'll run right into the rh at which point you can go on the offensive. if they do a jxxad the j.fp should be there to keep them at bay. if they sjxxad and the j.fp isn't out, it usually means you're back on the ground, in which case I'd either send out commando (if you can call an assist) or use the ground dash that others think is so useless to end up on the complete opposite side of the screen from the mag. chances are the first time you do this, the person won't even know what happened, and if you can call the sent-y assist right b4 you dash, they'll probablly get crossed up by the drones. last but not least is the idea of meeting mag in the air with sj.jp and whatever you choose to follow with. if you're confident in you ability to interrupt anything mag is trying, go for it. you'll either damage him or make them block at which point you can put the pressure on them. if they sj while you're on the ground you could even try to sj right with them and toss a RH for them to dash into, at which point some serious damage should be coming their way. for the most part, the mag (useless you're playing against a yipes/soo/row type of mag) should be outclassed as long as they have those assist and you have commando and sent-y. the one thing you don't want to do is get into a habit of calling commango unless it's definitely going to punish them or their assist. I have a feeling you might tend to call commando unnecessarily only to have your opponent call sent-a to pound a defenseless commando though...am I right?

[Mixah]

thanks.

i use only low tiers against him, cuz he ain't that good.
i use spiderman / bbhood / doom

he uses

wolverine / blackheart / commando.

if i used a top tier team he doesn't have time to breathe, so to keep it fair, i run my spiderman.

[BlackHeartKing]

okay that should be a hella easy matchup still. just stay on him with jump attacks while calling doom. it'll stop his blackheart assist and his capcom assist. don't really know what else to say. on low tier teams like that, it's all zoning...

[Mixah]

his capcom assist isn't what gets me. i web dash into ground assist all the time though.

[CoosCoos]

Only thing I could say is to pressure with bbhood projectile and webdash. I guess if you would time it right, it could stuff BH.

Can anyone explain to me why Cable/BH/Capcom counters Scrub? I played that team against my friend and wiped the floor with him last night.

[Mixah]

just because you wiped the floor with him doesn't mean it counters. and did you notice his sent running into inferno a lot? that could be it.

[JohnnyEight]

Your Cable is stronger. Capcom nullifies Sentinel C somehow. And Blackheart controls too much space, which makes more difficult for your opponent to do sj nades when he thinks its safe or stuff like that.

Your Cable can runaway or rush. His' can only rush. And Blackheart is kind of tough on Sentinel too. I think Cable/BH/Capcom has a better chance to get a lead and then it gets a big advantage. Not an amazing counter, but a good option IMO.

[StiltMan]

I am a bit less enamored of Cable/BH/Commando against Team Scrub than I used to be. My experience with that matchup is, they either know how to fight it, or they don't. If they don't, then you're going to OCV them virtually every time. If they do, it's not free by any means.

Ultimately, Cable/BH/Commando wins this fight if their Cable is able to turn the match vertical instead of horizontal. You've got all the vertical control, and they've got all the horizontal control with their Cable on point. Keeping them at longer ranges is generally better, and you have to be careful calling BH because unless you're already super jumping out, there aren't many places where you can call him safely unless you're going over the top. Ultimately this will go the way of your Cable if you don't do anything to get your Cable or your BH shot, and you ultimate goal in realistic terms is to get them to call Commando and you countercall enough times that you can shoot him for a meter or two. Never, ever call your Commando first unless you are virtually certain the other Cable's going to attack too much to avoid blocking it or unless you've got the space to shoot his to death when he does.

With Sentinel on point, this is a harder fight than it used to be. You absolutely have to assert that Sentinel is not allowed to have the ground at longer ranges and not give it up easily, because that's the main spot where Sentinel can do damage. You have to force Sentinel to not feel like he is free to move against you, which means you can't let him have the low altitudes easily without getting shot. Here, fierce and BH works together with going very low super jumps and throwing grenades around. You have to be careful doing this with st. fierce, though, because at a certain point it's possible to counter-AHVB when BH is sitting there waiting to get shot along with you, and if that happens, it's game over. Theoretically, Sentinel can't attack Cable without putting himself or Commando on the line, but Sentinels are getting a lot better at unflying in time to avoid a Commando hit. The main answer for this is to super jump when they get out of block stun and shoot them. They can't do anything about it if you shoot them at the right instant there -- unfly mode can be guard broken, and the only way to get their guard back is to fly again, where they can't block.

However, it's a mess in a lot of ways, more so than it used to be. You have to play the game a lot more perfect than you used to, because Sentinels are getting sharper about not giving up Commando hits and zoning it off, and BH is less effective at stopping him from getting in if Cable doesn't take more risks than he used to have to. I still use it from time to time myself, but it usually only works if the other player isn't used to it.

[StiltMan]

Well, I don't know what to say... the guy who was taping the matches at the June tourney hasn't put 'em up yet. Beginning to suspect he just won't.

[CoosCoos]

Man that sucks.

I'm still working on getting my vids, but I got to level up first too. I'm a little rusty since I've been play 3s a lot lately.

I think peeps are afraid of seeing the BH beasting haha.

[xxbiglou29xx]

what are some good teams with blackheart? ive had a few ideas of messin around with blackheart on some teams but cant realy find many good ones i kno about BH/sentinel/capt. comm but any other good ones worth mentioning?

[CoosCoos]

I have a question, big wooo!

What will BH's jumping lp beat out in the beginning of the match? I want to test it out, but I'm curious what to test it against.

[BlackHeartKing]

I've found that the j.lp beat out pretty much all other jumping attacks at the beginning of the match if you're fast enough. At worst, you'll cancel with a high priority move like cable's j.jp

[Deathfist]

I've found that the j.lp beat out pretty much all other jumping attacks at the beginning of the match if you're fast enough. At worst, you'll cancel with a high priority move like cable's j.jp
jlp, call capcom, mp, inferno [no super] if you want to do this.

[StiltMan]

Okay, we've finally started to see some signs of life from the guy who took the videos of me, among others, at the June tournament in Fairfield. I know that both matches of me versus Crizzle got taped as well as my first round rematch against Larry S from the previous tournament and the winners' final match where I got torn up by Chunk. My first match against Crizzle was probably one of my better accomplishments in my recent tournament career; Crizzle made the top 8 in the winners' bracket at Evo West, and the first match was all my BH/Sent/Commando against his MSP. This is also the same guy who perfected Mikey in the winners' final in May.

So hopefully we'll see June Fairfield tournament footage before... uh... the July tournament. :sweat:

[Mixah]

yo, i got an offnote question that deathfist just reminded me of...

does crizzle = chunksta? somebody was telling me something and made it sound like they're the same person.

[StiltMan]

No, they're not the same person at all. Chunk usually plays MSS and sometimes uses Sent/Storm/Cyclops and is probably the best player on the west coast right now. Crizzle usually uses MSP and very little else that doesn't amount to mildly screwing around, although he's very sharp with it.

[Mixah]

arite thanks.

[Deathfist]

Stiltman, [and everyone else for that matter] I'm curious to see video of how you personally defend against the rush using the drones, and unleash combos on people with BH using the drones. I also would like to see some patterns with the drones that really piss rushers off. I have some, but I'm kinda rusty with them since I don't use Sent enough.

As a side note, I did the Inferno XX HOD whiff DHC HSF to someone in a tournament Saturday for the second time ever. :badboy:

Tell Crizzle to hurry up with your Watts vs MSP match.

[StiltMan]

Well, unfortunately it's not in my control (or Crizzle's), I believe that Eph has them. Not sure when he's planning on getting it out.

There are basically three different distinct modes where BH can be played that I can readily think of that I use, depending on what I'm up against. Just for reference's sake, I'll categorize them as Freestyle, Lockout, and Zone Blitz.

Freestyle is where you're basically trying to keep their angles of attack to a mininum as usual, but you'll vary between different modes of it, sometimes using the lower normal jump fierce and sometimes using the sj rh, carefully aimed and timed so that you know there's drones below you when you're super jumping so that you're not going to land right on a Magneto player. Alternating between the high air and low air attacks will give them a few more openings to get to you, but they're usually not just great ones and if you know what to do when they get there they'll usually be wild enough to do damage that you can bait them into an ambush that'll do a bunch of damage. This is what I normally do against most characters or players that just suck.

Lockout is when you're pretty much staying low to the ground most of the time, using j. fierce and the drones to keep them from ever getting close to you near the ground, and only going to the air if they go first and are trying to airdash over the top. It takes a lot of patience to do this and it's not usually the best way to do a lot of damage, so mixing a little freestyling is often not a bad plan, although if you just want to frustrate them and make them get through walls all day, this works very well in its own right. It also is a very good way to finish a tournament game where you're ahead.

Zone Blitz is what you do primarily to Cable and a turtling Sentinel, where you are slowly moving forwards and cutting off their space until they're in the corner, and then you don't let them out. It's not really rushdown in the sense that Magneto or Storm do it, although it's about as aggressive as BH really gets. But the general plan here is to zone them off into the corner and not let them breathe until they're dead. If is pretty much the only way BH works against Cable, although it's very effective if you do it right. The mindset for it is not unlike what Sentinel has to do against Cable as well.

All of these are rather in opposition to the typical, "OMGLOLSJRH!!!!" that most (bad) BHs deploy. Or as Preppy put it on his site, "don't insult him by just mashing on demons."

[BlackHeartKing]

welp stilt pretty much covered all that angles except for the method of a chipping blackheart like you get with a team like bh/cable/doom. the same idea of getting them in the corner applies with a few minor changes in the sense that you never want to be at the same level as your doom assist unless they're blocking it and you're adding pressure. Soon I'll start recording vids of my playing a friend that's got a pretty damn good rush down game to show the applications of what stilt said cuz they're right on.

[StiltMan]

Well, the mentality behind BH/Doom isn't that much different from BH/Sentinel, you've just got different tools to work with. BH/Sentinel is far superior in depth and firepower, but BH can make enough of a mess with Doom behind him that it's not entirely unworthy of tinkering with. The main adjustment you have to make is, Doom's rocks hang around in a different position that's slightly less suited for covering the overhead angles and have shorter range, but they'll chip more and they'll stick around longer if you can assert control over those angles yourself. You pretty much have to use a variant of the Zone Blitz with Doom to maximize his effect. If I were going to use it in a tournament setting, I'd use either Commando or Cyclops in back to maximize BH's power. Cyclops would be there to maximize the number of chances I can have to get them in the corner on one hit so that I can put Doom on them as many times as possible, while Commando would be the more patient, methodical method of zoning them into the corner on your own.

Either way, I don't think I'd want to use BH/Cable/Doom just because I really think that would be pretty heinously vulnerable to Sent/Cyclops, Mag/Cyclops, and very likely Mag/Psylocke as well. Having the extra AAA power really is a huge help against these things, which is one reason I've ultimately abandoned my old Sent/Cable/BH days.

[Dasrik]

The main benefit of BH/Doom over BH/Sentinel is that it makes the basic counter-strategy against BH (just block) ineffective.

[StiltMan]

Well, yes, there is certainly that. Although this benefit is limited until you corner them, and BH cornering someone is generally a pretty good thing regardless of whether you've got Doom or Sentinel. The drawback is that somebody who decides they really do want to attack you usually has an easier time getting around Doom than they do Sentinel.

[BlackHeartKing]

I dunno I don't really see that being the case. From personal experience, nothing short of a psylocke assist really makes having cable instead of a capcom or cyclops assist a downfall. Sentinel really isn't a treat at all, you just have to be patient and not mind getting chipped by his attacks. Just know when to pushblock and when to counter call your assist to punish the sent of the assist that they're calling cuz a pressuring sent will almost never be able to punish your cable without putting himself in danger. I hate trying to explain the situations in which you'd do whatever works best b/c there's so many slight variations to every possibility so like I said b4, I'll try to get some stuff on vid soon.

[CoosCoos]

Well this seems to be some stuff.

It seems they released some footage from the Fairfield tourney.

But no vids of Stilt :(....

Maybe someone has some more though....

[StiltMan]

Yeah, that was the guy who was mostly recording CvS2 stuff, I'm afraid. Eh. The guy who recorded the MvC2 stuff has posted a trailer and nothing more.

[CoosCoos]

Ah well, congrats on 4th anyway.

Was this the last tourney that they have been waiting to put vids up for, or was this like a different one?

Either way, how'd your match with Cable guy go in your opinion?

[StiltMan]

Well, I once again used Spiral in that match, because it seemed that Randy Lew's Spiral had messed him up pretty badly. Mine did in the first game as well but I wasn't able to hold him off with Cable/Sentinel very well. Second game, I went to Spiral/Sent/Commando and the wheels kind of came off. Numerous people were verbally wondering why I used Spiral on him instead of BH (including Cableguy himself), and in retrospect I'm kind of starting to wonder that myself. Randy thought that Watts would have probably messed him up, and I'm not sure Cableguy's patient enough that I don't agree with him. Hard to say. Could have gone better, though.

[CoosCoos]

Ahhh I see, I am sure you thought that was the best chance to get a win.

I'm entering a tourney next Sunday. Gonna use Watts and Santhrax, and I hope that they film at all. Maybe someone might film casuals as well, who knows?

But I'll have analysis and ish that Sunday night.

[CoosCoos]

I'm bumping this since the vids of my first marvel tourney should be up within the next few days. I don't know how many matches of me were taped, but I'll probably post em in the General Strategy section. I used Watts most of the tourney, but 2 matches I did use Scrub.

[StiltMan]

It's been almost two weeks now. Where is it? :confused:

[CoosCoos]

Bah the dude that captured the vids I guess isn't putting them up. Sooo I'll just tell you guys how I did.

Casuals: I went 17-3 in casuals just using Watts. There was one match where I faced off against rape squad(storm/im/sent for those who don't know), where I didn't really know how to fight it with Watts, so two losses came from that. The other loss came from a guy who used Spiral/Cable/Sent. I kinda knew how to fight that team using Watts, but it was still so brutal; god are all fights against Spiral/Sent supposed to be brutal with the assist and the point character? Somehow though, I manage to get Spiral out, with a loaded metered Cable. I mistimed one set of demons and ggpo my team.

As for the actual tournament: The first round, I got a bye blah blah. Second round, I faced a guy who played Mag/Cable/Doom for the first match vs. my Watts. I was really confident in not going for the counter with Cyke, because back here in my town, there are two players who play Mag/Doom here in the way of Mag/Sent/Doom. However, I didn't want to take my chances with it, so I just stuck with the normal gameplan I had in building meter and trying to hit the DHC one of the characters, in this case it was Cable. Second match, he switched to Scrub starting Cable. This was a very very tough match, in where I made some bad demon telegraphs and ended up almost losing BH. Also, when I got Sent in there, he got roughed up pretty bad because it seemed that my opponent would call Capcom at the right times when I did NOT have Unfly. So I decided, that I would bring Capcom in to let the others heal. I have a very good Capcom it seems, since it took out both his Cable and Capcom, leaving a reeling Sent vs. a full life Cap in the end, and I win on time out.

Second opponent I faced was a Clockwork user. So I decided to not take any chances and go for the counter with BH/Sent/Cyke. Turns out, guy has a MONSTER Strider, so he starts him, and basically OCV's my whole team with it. So I figure, that maybe I cannot get him to slow down enough to keep him frustrated, so I switch to Scrubclops with the second match, since I did have a Cowboy hat on at the time, I figure I will shoot the shit out of everything. I easily take out his Strider/Doom with Cable/Cyke, and just switch to Sent/Cyke to finish it out in the next 2 matches. Dude had a nasty Strider though...sheesh....

So now it is Winners Semis, and me and my friend Sora find out that we both are in Winners Semis, so we were like, we can make this an All AUG Winner's final like what? Anywho, I drew the guy that beat me in Casuals with Spiral/Cable/Sent. However, he didn't pick that again, he used MSP. So, I pick Watts again. I started out with a good opening. However, All the MSP's that I have ever faced in my life, are and have been very rush and impatient. This guy's MSP, was the most patient I had ever faced. I had good control over this match, but again, I made one mistake by not completing a B&B, and he was all over me like white on rice from then on in. The second match, I decided, that maybe I would have a better chance at prolonging the match with Sent/Cap than BH/Cap. So I started him in the second match. I did really really good with the zone defense, and managed to get rid of his Storm, but then I made a really really lazy Cap call late in the match against his Mag/Psy, and he double snapped me. Guard Broke BH, and thanks for coming folks.

So, I got my first loss, and then I had to go right back and play someone who played SSCable. For some odd reason, I have never faced this team with Watts ever in my life. So, I start Sent instead of BH for the second straight time, since I do face SSCap, and whenever they start Storm, I start Sent, unless I know that I can really take their Storm with BH. But I guess that since he was using SSCable, a team that requires the user to have a really good Storm, I had to go against it with Sent first. My guess was right. His Storm was good, and managed to get me in the infinite, but he messed up and bye bye Storm. So, I manage to maim his Sentinel, and trap him with Sent/BH, then I left an opening for a CAHVB and he took it. His Cable was really good, and carried him the rest of the way to the win. Second match, I switched to Scrub starting Sent. Did pretty good, and got a bunch of Sent/Cap fast flies in this match, but it seems his Cable was outthinking me on every facet, and so I lost the match to his cable.

Overall, I got 5th. I'm very happy about how I did. I never would have got that in my first tourney that I would get to Winner's Semi's and put up a good fight, and all. I wasn't really disappointed with my play at all, because the two matches that I lost, they had to basically be taken away from me. I left it all on the sticks, and that's all I could ask for. Another guy got 7th, and it was his first tourney as well. We were called the Cinderellas of the tourney. But I have gotten better now because of that tourney, and will continue to beast.

[gouki10]

good shit. Play on playa

[Radiant93]

w0w. 5th on your first tourney. Good one

[Deathfist]

CoosCoos

Maybe you can ask [or bribe] them for the footage so you can put it up for them. Something like that needs to be added to your personal collection.

[CoosCoos]

CoosCoos

Maybe you can ask [or bribe] them for the footage so you can put it up for them. Something like that needs to be added to your personal collection.

I'll see what I can do. I'll go to Atl and choke that nigga if I have to.

[gouki10]

^ lolerz

[joe doe]

hey guys it's been ages!!! by the way stilt i've seen your matches, your zoning with bh/sentinel is pretty good. However i'm concerned with your use of capcom i think you call him out quite a bit. I know cause i used to have the same game but lately people caught on to it and the first thing they do is kill capcom. Though it doesn't matter to me cause i've been playing BH for 4 years allready, so even without an AAA my BH is pretty deadly. Anyways, besides that your games is pretty much tight, and what i mean by that is that you keep firm control over your opponent's game which is the point of playing BH. I was pretty happy to see a good blackheart oriented team going against mainstream teams like scurbs and santhrax and kick ass. Though i will say that your blackheart on point was not aggressive enough it kind of felt like BH was more of an assisst than a point character. Well, for team watts i guess blackheart is not much of a point character, and his roll might be better as an assisst. All in all if i had to give your game a score it would be 9/10 good stuff man and keep it up.

[kurtsky]

Id like to ask if blackheart has an infinite and how would you be able to pull it off.. corner or not corner would be fine..as logn as I could get it to work.. thanks
he has been an interesting character ive been playing with for some time now..

[Radiant93]

yes he does have one. check meikyosisui10 vid. it's easy but the timing is kinda strict.

[joe doe]

guys, forget about black's infinite it's worthless and actually can cause you to lose the game even if you pull it off!!

[vkuwabara]

I got serious problems dealing with BH. Any scrub BH can beat me. I just get dizzy with his patterns. A Cyclops backing up is also a trouble, I can't land a solid hit.

1-What can break up a BH?
2-The demons, what can destroy them effectively?
3-I was thinking about calling an assist to protect me from demons while I rush under BH, is that ok?

[Radiant93]

1. Cable (you're asking "what" here -> Cable's Gun. LOL]
2. Well, maybe you don't have to, just don't get hit, sj or dash foward, maybe aim for a cross-up
3. CC is nice with Cable.

well, that's what I think. idk for the other people around here. that's what i usually do when i face BH with Team Watts or BH/Cyclops. pretty much the same.

[AmbushKilla]

Hey, I have some questions on BH\Sent\Cyc. Is this team feasible at all vs teams like MSP or Cable teams and does it have some longevity to it? I seriously considering quitting marvel all together as I can't seem to find something that works for me, but at the moment I want to try one last team. Any strats and ideas you guy can give me on this team?

[gouki10]

IMO Try Santhrax or Matrix if you don't like BH.

storm-A/sentinel-Y/ Cyc or Commando is too much fun.

Ok BH Experts take him to the depths of hell and show him the way BH

[CoosCoos]

Hey, I have some questions on BH\Sent\Cyc. Is this team feasible at all vs teams like MSP or Cable teams and does it have some longevity to it? I seriously considering quitting marvel all together as I can't seem to find something that works for me, but at the moment I want to try one last team. Any strats and ideas you guy can give me on this team?

Well, It is a hit or miss pretty much. If you really want to play that duo, you may want to choose BH/Cable/Cyke, because it plays kind of similarly to Cable/Storm/Cyke.

If you really want to play BH/Sent, against like teams like Cable or MSP, you would want to use Cap, because, it seems you really want to piss people off when playing BH, and getting hit with demons all day and then after those demons, getting hit with capcom, it's demoralizing. Moreover, with Cap on your side, you can do a lot more damage against those big teams like MSP or Cable-centric teams. For example, whenever you hit hk demons on someone who is airborne, you can st. lk + cap, st. lk xx inferno(xx HOD(xxDHC)). Guaranteed everytime.

With Cyke you cannot do that. As a matter of fact, the damage potential is greater with BH/Cap than BH/Cyke. Basically, all BH/Cyke has, is an infinite setup(very VERY GOOD for Cable), and the mutiple Inferno combo(which all depends on your timing, I've gotten about 6 before at most, but you can at least get 2 to 3 easy), but for defense, Cyke is not going to cut it at all.

I hope this helps, other people will be along to correct me or add on to it.

[Radiant93]

Well, It is a hit or miss pretty much. If you really want to play that duo, you may want to choose BH/Cable/Cyke, because it plays kind of similarly to Cable/Storm/Cyke.

If you really want to play BH/Sent, against like teams like Cable or MSP, you would want to use Cap, because, it seems you really want to piss people off when playing BH, and getting hit with demons all day and then after those demons, getting hit with capcom, it's demoralizing. Moreover, with Cap on your side, you can do a lot more damage against those big teams like MSP or Cable-centric teams. For example, whenever you hit hk demons on someone who is airborne, you can st. lk + cap, st. lk xx inferno(xx HOD(xxDHC)). Guaranteed everytime.

With Cyke you cannot do that. As a matter of fact, the damage potential is greater with BH/Cap than BH/Cyke. Basically, all BH/Cyke has, is an infinite setup(very VERY GOOD for Cable), and the mutiple Inferno combo(which all depends on your timing, I've gotten about 6 before at most, but you can at least get 2 to 3 easy), but for defense, Cyke is not going to cut it at all.

I hope this helps, other people will be along to correct me or add on to it.

yeah. cap is good against those teams. although im not saying cyclops is not that good. just learn to use and be comfortable with such assists. we're only here to give advices, still at the end it's up to you. although cap is still the best, i agree with him. and you still got sent/cap which is also a good team. [my av. lol].

[Deathfist]

Here's something amusing for you BH-Cyc fans to look at...

BH-Cyc Hit detection/reset trap

With BH-Cyc, it's easier to do something like this.
1]launch, AC,

2]b+hk, guide yourself for cross ups and use the hk to hit them at exactly 1 millimeter before they touch the ground [so they can't call an assist and are forced to guess how to block you].

3]If they are...
a- drifting away from you, hold towards sooner after the release of the hk so that you can overshoot them and attack from behind high if desired.
b- drifting towards you, you neutral or hold back and lk them in the face as you land
c- in either of the above cases, you can land and lk them at the last second before landing if you catch them blocking low, go into cyclops, sj hk them, airdash back whiff a hk, land beside them, then relaunch them setting all this up over again.
d- if you see them blocking high, you can land right beside them and ducking lk them into Cyclops, and you guessed it, do all this stuff over again.
e- you can occasionally try to cross them up so that the demons reverse their block and wind up the first hit.


You know the funny thing about all this?
You can [with greater difficulty] do almost exactly the same thing with Capcom assist for BH and do more damage per rep.

1]One of the following...
a- Point blank dlk, call Capcom, dmk, sj cancell, hk, airdash hk[whiff this one], land, launch for an AC, Proceed to step 2
b- jump [or sj with REAL low airdash] lk,mk, land, dfhp+Capcom to launch, sj uf lp,lk,mp, AD lp,lk,mp [substitute the mp for a throw if you're sure it'll kill them. otherwise don't.] Proceed to step 2.

2]Use the flying hk for coverfire as illustrated above under BH-Cyc to end your air combo.

3]If they are...
a- hit by the hk, you launch and insert Capcom into your Air Combo for even bigger damage while maintaining this hit detection trap.
b- blocking low, air lk and Stilt combo them into oblivion anytime they block low [if you air lk, land, lk, call cap, mk, sj cancell them, you probably will not make it to them with the sj hk before Capcom blows them into the stratosphere...]

Woah, Hey, Hold the phone here, STILT DHC!!!!?? I can use this instead to fuck him up FIRST HIT!!!!

Nerermind. :rofl:

[StiltMan]

I've taken a vacation trip up to Portland and have been playing against a bunch of the old folks from there. I'm starting to play around with the idea of just starting Sentinel in most cases (just about everything that isn't Cable, really) and play a passive-aggressive game plan where I'm generally keeping the opponent at arm's length with repeated laser beams and leaving them to guess just when that inferno column is going to come out. The conservative Sentinel/Commando game gets a lot more annoying when they're looking over their shoulder for BH, which keeps them from going over the top a lot. Then if they do go over the top they're left wondering if Commando is coming out or if I've got the space I may just fly back, fierce/BH/land/fierce/HSF/fierce/BH/drones and they're stuck locked for a moment and are back at full screen once it's over with.

Mix this in with a judicious bit of fierce/fly forward/short, with Commando coming in at unpredictable enough intervals, and stir. It seems really heinous against anything that isn't Cable, enough that I may just start Sentinel and use it against just about anything other than Team Scrub and Clockwork. (With Clockwork I'd swap Commando for Cyclops and still use it.)

[gouki10]

watson is THEE bh team.

btw incase anyone didn't know, with sentinel/bh-B, you can call assist, throw, the piller launches them up high, then you have enough time to recover from throw and dash under........

GG

[Gnawsa]

YO yo yo, hope this thread is still somewhat alive because i have a question.

What kind of fly combos you can pull of with Sent and using Blackhearts AAA? i know a couple in Training mode, but i doubt they work in actual gameplay or i cant pull them off during matches cuz im still a newb in MvC2 =).

[gouki10]

for some reason i love Bh anti air fastflys, you can do something like s.hk, sj, lk, fastfly, lk, rp, lk + bh, rp, ice hits, then fly under(reset), wait a sec, then lk, mk, rp.

[jaded]

Here's something amusing for you BH-Cyc fans to look at...
..
:



Here's more things you can do with BH/cyc you can't do with BH/cc (or any other AAA for that matter):


- if you land inferno xx hod in the corner(on block OR hit), your opponent is forced to block cyc on wake up(which forces them to block another inferno xx hod). This works nicely, especially on block, because your opponent will get frustrated to no end if they don't know how to escape inferno xx HOD.

- bh/cyc rushdown cycle: goes like this: sj. rh, then on the way down, tap sj. short, sj. forward, c. short+ cyc, c. forward ^^ sj. rh (on the way up), air dash to other side (assuming they've block the cyc and didn't get hit.. if they do get hit, start infinite). You will be on their other side, so as you fall, fall towards them and use sj. short, sj. forward, c. short+ cyc, c. forward, repeat.

[joe doe]

hey guys i have a little question, kind of been bugging me lately, what do you do against mags/xxx, with black/capcom?

i think someone answer this already but i have not seen the post, and magneto is really kicking my ass in chinatown lately. thankx for the help

[CoosCoos]

hey guys i have a little question, kind of been bugging me lately, what do you do against mags/xxx, with black/capcom?

i think someone answer this already but i have not seen the post, and magneto is really kicking my ass in chinatown lately. thankx for the help

I'll help! I'm going to do do this with BH/Sent/Cap vs Mag/blah.

The first thing that is helpful to know, is that switch glitch j. lp will beat out any of Magneto's jumping normals cleanly. So, you can open the match with switched j. lp + cap, j. lp, cap hits, and it will get you a good lead, and space to work around, and throw demons in.

A key to anyone fighting Mags is to stay mobile. Always be sure you can stay mobile, and empty jump a lot and watch where the Mag player is going to do. Often times they will like to go up and try and ROM you, or fly screen to a 50/50 mixup. Also, listen for the "swish" whilst in the air. Sometimes you can catch them with a sj. lp/lk before they get up to you.

If the Mags player can GC out of Inferno xx HOD, call sent while doing it, or don't do it unless you're sure it will hit. Also, try and not random inferno too much. Mags can bait that and airdash at the last minute.

When you hit with a HOD combo, or successfully chip with it, you can go into jump back fierces + Sent and see what they are going to do next and go from there.

Anywho, I hope that some of this stuff helps you out. Mags is a tough fight, but the key is patience.

I have a comment though. With bigs, you can potentially do a multiple inferno combo with BH/Cap.

If you catch them with Demons in the air, or if you do j. lk, j. lk in the air and catch them, and you are remotely near the corner, you can do st. lk + cap, st. lk xx inferno, and it all hits. Sometimes, if you time the inferno right, you can double bounce to do mutiple infernos.

Hope this helps anyone.

[joe doe]

thanks cooscoos, however if you don't mind me asking , whats the SWITCH GLITCH? i have never heard of it.

Also with mags i am always very mobile if you are not then you are asking for death. But that in it self is the problem blackheart was not made to be that mobile, so the damage that i can do to mags is minor. Besides that everyone in chinatown know my blackheart so the first thing they do is kill it before i even get the chance of using him (i really hate those damn infinites). And if i use capcom to much, then i'll lose caps as well. so i think it comes down to the second character but cable is also weak to rushdowns also. I've used sentinel in the past, and even though i am an fairly avid sentinel user, i don't use him with balckheart because he is really not my game. But i guess i have to go the way mainstream game is going.

[Radiant93]

thanks cooscoos, however if you don't mind me asking , whats the SWITCH GLITCH? i have never heard of it.




http://www.video-opera.com/features/f0012.php

[CoosCoos]

thanks cooscoos, however if you don't mind me asking , whats the SWITCH GLITCH? i have never heard of it.

Also with mags i am always very mobile if you are not then you are asking for death. But that in it self is the problem blackheart was not made to be that mobile, so the damage that i can do to mags is minor. Besides that everyone in chinatown know my blackheart so the first thing they do is kill it before i even get the chance of using him (i really hate those damn infinites). And if i use capcom to much, then i'll lose caps as well. so i think it comes down to the second character but cable is also weak to rushdowns also. I've used sentinel in the past, and even though i am an fairly avid sentinel user, i don't use him with balckheart because he is really not my game. But i guess i have to go the way mainstream game is going.

I think all I can say is, if your Blackheart is getting killed like that, I guess it could be of one of two things. The first thing, as with any character in the game, is that you may be too predictable with your patterns. Ask yourself when you play, how many times do I do a certain pattern in a match? How many repetitions does it usually take for someone to get to me after it? If you know these things, you can counter it or do something to make yourself more safe.

Second thing is, you may not be empty jumping enough with Blackheart IMO. Fighting Mags from my experience, requres some empty jumping. This is because with anyone, you must kind of scout ot how they want to get at you before you go and counter it. Empty jumping is a key for that, especially for BH.

One more thing. From that paragraph, am I right to assume that you play Cable/Blackheart/Capcom? If I am right, start Cable with that team, if you don't already.

Anyway, that's some stuff that I was thinking of when I read that. I hope this helps you, and people do correct me if I'm wrong. I don't have the market cornered on BH, so others chime in.

[joe doe]

thanx cooscoos, i'll do as you say and see how things turn out, im going to chinatown tonite (most of the best players in NY gather there on fridays).

also that switch glitch has been around for two years already and i haven't heard of it until i saw it in video opera( thanx radiant). Now thinking on it i always wonder why my opponent would start msp with storm on the vrsus screen then switch to mags, like that would do anything. Now i know it was for the switch glitch, sheesh! kind-of embarrasing i've been playing mvc2 for 5 years and i didn't know of this.:sweat:

[Radiant93]

yeah.. no prob man...

it's because magneto's c.lk has a very high priority with only 1 frame (beats almost anything...)

[CoosCoos]

bom dia pessoas desse furumm!! eu sou o mais novo comparsa de faucatruas aqui com vcs!! meu nome é rafael mas podem me chamar de cabelis se preferirem!! esse é meu apelido ! eu naum gosto muito mas fazer oq!! ja vou avisando q meu ingles é pessimo rs!! quer dizer é meia boca rs!! estou cheio de duvidas !! acredito q haja muitos jogadores bons nesse nosso mundo!!! é uma pena naum poder conhecer todos !!! adoraria tirar uma casquinha de cada humm !! ninguem passa por mim batido!! é uma forma de ser amigo de todos seja vc quer for !!! pois bem !! a algum tempo atraz ,a uns 5 anos!! quebrei o pé !! e acabei conhecendo o marvel vs capcom 2!! como naum tinha muito oq fazer passava horas jogando!! e acabei me indentificando com alguns personagens!! tipo: ! doon , cable, storm, mag, sentnela, black heart, son son, comando , thanos, pisiloka, e alguns outros!! mas esses saõ os mais !! intaõ descobri q esses tbm saõ os mais de muitos jogadores do mundo!! assisti alguns videos!! de grandes jogadores!! e vi muita coisa impressionante !!!sim, um nivel bem elevado!!!! e por essa e outras razaõ venho a toda essa galera de diversars partes !! e pra começar gostaria de saber se alguem sabe me explicar como funciona os infinitos inferno do black heart???? eu deduzi q é um golpe bem coprlicado!!! acho q os outras infinitos do BH todos conhecem!! fora os infernos! á mais 3!!!! c ouver alguem q naum saiba!! explicarei com maior prazer!!! mas minha duvida mesmo, saõ as benditas colunas!!!!!!!!! um grande abraçoa todos espero uma resposta !!!! [/U][/COLOR][/B]

No habla ingles??

[Radiant93]

no ingles mi amigo? nah. seriously i don't get it.

[ograndeblackbelis]

puts !! no habla ingless, sorry freind !!

[ograndeblackbelis]

eita ! acho q exagerei um pouco!! fiz um comentario estupido!! bem agora só posso pedir desculpas!!! e sou um grande mentiroso!! pois sei todos os infinitos do BH!! o q estou querendo saber,,! é se há mais alguem de tal conhecimento!!!! gostaria de ver oq saber fazer!! gostaria de assistir um VIDEO!!!! se mostraren-me!!, eu lhes mostro um acerto de INFINITOS INFERNOS! e chato pra mim pensar q sou o unico a saber tal golpe!!???? fazer um infinito naum é taõ facil!! eu utilizo o cammando ! e o cable !! o ciclops e o mais indicado !! mas naum me dou bem com ele!!! futurante podemos jogar uns contras ! e colocar as diferenças de lado !! dizem!!! q os gringos saõ os melhores!!! meus adversarios aqui saõ uns piadas!! estou até ficando ruin jogando com eles!!! E GENTE!! VAMU APRENDER A FALAR PORTUGUES POCHA!! É A LINGUA MAIS FACIL DO PLANETA!!! quando escrever!! naum tenha vergonha de errar palavras !! eu naum vou rir de ninguem!!! naum estou aqui pra isso !!! até mesmo eu erro algumas palavras !! imaginem quando vierem ao brasil !! todas aquelas gatas na praia com aqueles biquines minimos!!! HUMMM MARAVILHA RS!! todas molhadinhas, hummm!!! vai ajudar pra caramba!!! HEM... VIDEO!!! EU QUERO VER UM VIDEO, DO MELHOR BLACK HEART Q VCS TEMM !! MANDA PRA MIM!!! . um abraço friend cabelis ;-)

[Deathfist]

Re: What's the best BH team for killing Cable-Doom

Quote:Originally Posted by Deathfist
4 questions:
1]What's the best BH team for killing Cable-Doom.
2]What do you do with that team?

3]What's the best team period [BH or Not] for killing Cable-Doom
4]What strategy should I use with that team?

Stiltman's Response:
Well, Cable/Doom is not commonly something where I'm going to get upset about seeing it if I'm playing the base BH/Sent/Commando. My usual strategy is basically to avoid being near the ground with Cable at all costs if I'm anywhere further than poke range, and get in Cable's face and force the issue up close. Cable/Doom is annoying for winning chipping wars, so the big thing is, don't let it be a chipping war. Rush Cable down.

However, if (as many not uncommonly be the case) you aren't able to kill Cable outright, don't lose heart, because the real strategy here is, just don't let Cable beat you by himself, because if he doesn't then Doom and/or the third character has to beat Sentinel by themselves.

If that third character is Magneto and they're starting on BH, then you want to play runaway with the drones out there as much as possible and don't let him assert Doom at close range. Try to kill Magneto without needing to go to Sentinel so that you can save the DHC for Cable. Although even if you do wind up with Sentinel against Cable, this is no big deal because Cable/Doom with no AAA is execrable for getting Sentinel out of his favored attack positions.

If I really had to fight this one with any team of my choice, I'd probably give some thought to something like Sent/Cable/Cyclops or Sent/BH/Cyclops if the base team wasn't working. Sent/Cyclops pretty much ruins Doom rocks reliant teams.
_________

[StiltMan]

Yeah... to add to that...

I wouldn't automatically assume it's a lost cause. The main thing, like I said then is, plan to try to get Cable off point and then exploit the fact that the rest of the team has to fight Sentinel with BH and Commando behind him. There aren't too many third characters I can think of for whom that becomes a particularly happy fight. For Doom, it's pretty much impossible.

But yeah, if a Doom team was bothering me too much I'd probably go to something with Cyclops. I'd also give Cable/Sent/Commando a bit of thought, with much the same philosophy as with BH on point: drones keep Doom's rocks from asserting themselves.

[density]

Hey stilt who do u think has the best BH u ever played against in your marvel career?????

[True Grave]

Blackheart is a BEAST in the right hands, and looks badass too. Great assist for tracking down pesky storm and Iceman users.

I don't use him that much however, my BH needs a lot of work.

[CyborgRJ]

I'm confused.. :confused: if someone could help.. :wonder:
StiltMan said that the infinite of blackheart easy to do with cyclops, or if you hit an sj.HK, it's not so useful unless you're using cable on second char so you can tag him in and go on.. intead of that you shoud do s.lk + commando, s.lk, Inferno xx HOD xx DHC Sent.. I do that but when sentinel comes and finish the HSF they still with some life left and I can only kill them if I have one more bar to do the HSF again, or if I'm in corner, if in corner than there's a lot o ways to finish them.. Am I doing something wrong or I really need 3 bars/start in corner in order to kill them? and sometimes even with 3 bars I can't manage to kill them.. :sad:
If anyone could help.. I heard of something like HOD (whiff) xx DHC, but the timing still too tricky for me so it's not practical for me.. :sweat:

[joe doe]

man i havent post for years, glad that the blackheart thread is still alive. Anyways, cyborg the trick with black is not the infinites or the combos. The trick of playing blackheart is being extremely annoying with him.

if you haven't played against good blackheart players, try to look for stilt's videos with him playing blackheart. Blackheart is the poke king in MVC2, and it is really strange to play against.

[CyborgRJ]

Thanks man.. I know that with him you should not be "flashy" but annoying..
the problem is that when the chance comes you should not waste it, if you know what i mean.. ppl make mistakes then you punish them.. I think that this is the point of being annoying, make ppl commit mistakes and then punish them.. but lookin' to me playing, I'm really not being as annoying as I should.. but still, it will be a lot of help if I could do these combos when the chance comes.
I saw some stiltman vids.. the guy rox.. wish I was that good with BH.. but still there's a long road to go.. lol (can't manage to play against cable/doom or cable/commando yet.. I find msp and santhrax a little bit easier to handle than those cable teams) anyway.. do you know any other good player I should look for vids.. I already saw, stilt's, mikeheart's and alex valle's (only one, and against justin wong) vids.
I would like to see more valle and stilt vids do you know some place else to look for them, other than youtube?

Thanks for you help =]

UP

[joe doe]

well you wouldn't believe me if i told you, but i saw justing wong play a pretty mean blackheart once. But it doesn't matter which character he picks he usually comes up with stuff with them and beat every one.

And one tip about blackheart, blackheart is one of those few characters that you can only get better with experience. That said just play blackheart until you get a pretty good feel about him and you'll see that you will be beating cables like they were nothing. As matter of fact even top players in the arcade that i go to and even in chinatown fair (it's an arcade in NY) do not put up their cables against my blackheart.

One last thing play blackheart/cable/capcom in that order, and try to fight with blackheart not just cheese to get meter so you can give them to cable. I think that this team will solve your problem about blackheart not being deadly enough

[CyborgRJ]

Is there any video of that?
I never saw it.. =[

[CyborgRJ]

I don't know how to play cable, btw cable and sent, I play sent better, but I'll give him a try, and play BH w/o wastin meter? that will be hard.. but let's try, one last thing, best cable assist in this team would be cable AAA?

[StiltMan]

By and large, BH should not be burning a lot of meter if he's the first character unless he has a pretty good idea it's going to hit something. With BH/Cable/Doom it can sort of be forgiveable if you've got someone pinned in the corner with Doom's rocks in their face (BH/Doom inferno/HOD locked in the corner is probably more chip damage per meter than Strider). Regardless, I don't tend to throw supers for sheer chip purposes unless it's in an endgame situation where I'm ahead and I'm pretty sure it's safe or unless I'm pretty much playing a straight chip-oriented BH team. Which, to be fair, BH/Cable/Doom is, but even there I'd be playing a half careful balance to at least make sure Cable's got a couple meters to work with when he comes in.

[CyborgRJ]

Thank's again.. I tryed to play with BH/Cable/Cyc a few times, it didn't worked well even though I don't have a pretty good Sent.. he works better with BH than Cable, I'll give a try to BH/Cable/Doom.. see if it works better than BH/Cable/Cyc cos' I used to play Doom a lot more than Cyc so maybe it will help a little.. my problem with savin meter with BH is that when I think somebody will SJ. and atack by reflex I do the inferno.. if it connects I cancel it into HOD, if they block I have to cancel too, cos' if I don't then I'm getting punished, for sure, and as I "think" wrong a lot of times.. I end up wasting metter, and i like to punish assists too, so when I see any unprotected assist, I "inferno/HOD" them... but I never saw that as a problem, but startin' to think 'bout it would be better to have some meter when Sent comes in, it will help to punish assists way better than with BH.

Thanks a lot.

[StiltMan]

BH/Cable/Cyclops and BH/Cable/Doom are serviceable BH teams. I've found myself going back to BH/Cable/Cyclops as a mixup team against people who get too comfortable against BH/Sent/Commando from time to time. I'm starting to think that if BH/Sent/Commando isn't going to work then I ought to either go with Sent-A/Cable/BH in various orders again. That's actually a really good team for a lot of matchups, merely that two of the good matchups are not Mag/Psylocke and likely Sent/Commando, although I'm beginning to think that if it really comes to it I should just reverse the order against the latter.

BH/Cable/Sent-A is an order I never used for it when I used to use it in tourneys, I always started either Sentinel or Cable. However, BH has a serviceable DHC to both of the other two with that team, although there isn't really a consistent DHC that goes straight from BH to Sentinel's HSF without Cable in the middle, but you CAN DHC to plasma storm which is still pretty decent damage. Comparable to if you put Storm in the middle and DHC'ed to hail. With Cable in the middle you could do either poke into RP/inferno/HOD and DHC into HVB, which might or might not be able to also combo into HSF. If you did poke into RP/judgment day and DHC'ed to HVB, it would definitely go through to HSF.

Another one I've tinkered with, although I don't like it nearly as much when all is told, is BH/Storm-B/Sent-Y. This is a really nasty DHC team. Storm-B into inferno/armageddon/DHC hail can do Storm/Sentinel like damage, and then you've got the real Storm/Sentinel right behind it. Storm/BH isn't just awful when you've also got the drones back there, and we already know what Sent/BH can do. This is generally a pretty kooky team though, so I haven't generally stayed with it a whole lot unless I'm completely goofing off. The chemistry with Sent-A/Cable/BH just works a lot better from every angle as long as Sentinel doesn't die (which is actually pretty fatal to both teams, really).

[pipipi]

E aí Eduardo (Cyborg), tudo certo? Aqui é o Andre (José) da Lets.

Back to english

I play with BH/Sent-A/Cycke, and I think that this team can do great against almost every top team. I actually have some problems with Rowtron and MSP. Basically against magneto. The first team I have to save BH x Cable, so I have to play Sentinel x Magneto. Against MSP the problem is psy as assist.

Someday I'll record my 100% combos that I have with BH.

Valew,
pipipi

[Whiff]

I don't know if this been mention before but I like to know what do you guys think of a team of BH/Strider/Doom?

I've been playing around with this team for awhile and I personally see a lot of benefits. BH zones with Doom, chips and build meter for Strider. Strider comes in with a tracking AAA to stop runaways and do his usual trapping with Doom. Doom comes in and also gets the benefit on the Doom/BH trap. This team can cover a lot of ground to air with demons, rocks and Strider's animals. It's very trap oriented on all fronts and the DHC's compliments each other quiet nicely, imo.

[Deathfist]

Sent-a, Cable-b, BH-b. Vs the 7 most common teams, what are the best and worst team orders for this team when using it against them, and briefly explain why?

[StiltMan]

Sent-a, Cable-b, BH-b. Vs the 7 most common teams, what are the best and worst team orders for this team when using it against them, and briefly explain why?

Depends on what you're thinking for "7 most common teams". I'll extrapolate wildly and assume this means....

Scrub
Santhrax
MSP
MSS
Combofiend
Storm/Sent/Clops
Row

The main reason I abandoned this team... okay, two reasons. I used to play it starting either Sentinel (typically in a Sent/BH/Cable order) or Cable (Cable/Sent/BH) in order to preserve DHC swaps one or two layers team. However, Sent/Commando and MSP messed the team up, so eventually I got rid of it in favor of Watts.

Against any team that starts Sent and has Commando, I would probably play it in BH/Cable/Sent order. The game plan here is, punish Commando with Sent-A and try to hurt Sentinel as much as possible with the poking game, and use as little of the meter as possible until they're forced to abandon the mouth beam for fear of getting counter-shot.

Against a team that's going to start Storm, I'd start it as Sent/Cable/BH. Play the runaway game, keep them from running away from you in turn with BH assist, and outwait them.

For Combofiend I could see starting either BH or Sentinel in either order. This would be a touch-and-feel thing as to whether they're more prepared to chase down Sentinel or chase down BH with Mags. If you start BH and can get a DHC that'll kill Mags with Cable left on point, IM against Cable in this situation having to come from behind is freaking hopeless.

For MSP... well, this is the main reason that I finally abandoned the team in favor of Watts in the old days. I'd probably have to start BH these days just because I know that starting Sentinel doesn't work too hot on Mag/Psylocke with this team. From there I'd do my best to punish Psylocke as painfully as possible with both countercalls and find a way to kill her.

With MSS, I could potentially see starting either Sentinel or BH on this team. If I started Sentinel I'd be going for keep-out more than lockdown on Magneto. However, having the rocket punch instead of the drones for BH can be a bit of an adjustment in fighting Magneto, so be prepared, both with this matchup and the previous one.

For Team Row, I would probably start Sentinel. Keepout tactics again, and save the meter to get Cable in there and try to kill Mags in the process. However, I could see myself starting BH and aiming to go for some way of killing Mags with a DHC, possibly just to Cable to fight their Cable after with identical assists with me having BH besides, or all the way through to Sentinel and run away the rest of the game.

If they're going to start Cable, it'll depend on how confident you feel in using BH as an assist to help Sentinel take away the air from Cable and attack him. If you do, go for it. If you don't, start Cable yourself and be prepared to DHC to Sentinel if you're losing that fight. Either way, it's best to learn to fight Cable with Sent/BH.

There are three main reasons to use this team:

1. You're tired of Cable (or anyone else) running away from Watts and you'd like to have a Cable as a safety net of your own in case you can't manage to manufacture a hit.
2. It's a three-point team, so you discourage people from attempting to snapback unless they can hit two characters at once, because there's a limited benefit to it other than trying to manufacture a guard break.
3. You'd like to have BH's assist power for a greater proportion of the game by having two viable point characters on the team with him who can both use him.

[CyborgRJ]

Fala andré!! beleza?? já tinha visto o pipipi e achei que era você, mas não tinha certeza!! ^.^

Still playing better with watts, I'm startin to like playing with Cable, but still playing better with sent... I've already tried to play Cable/sent/BH, but it was a complete mess.. =[
I think tha watts works better for me..

[pipipi]

My team (BH/Sent-a/Cycke) do great against Scrubs and Santhrax, but I'm still having problems against MSP and Rowtron.

Any suggestions how to fight against these 2 teams would be very nice.

Nowadays, when I lose to these teams, I change for Santhrax for the win...

[50mOrEcEnTz]

hey stiltman, I was going to ask you if you knew how to combo HoD dhc'ed to a HVB that OTG's and forces a roll...my friend used to do it but I can't pick up his timing that well, and its been ages since he used bh...wonderin if you could shed some light on me =)

[50mOrEcEnTz]

hey stiltman, I was going to ask you if you knew how to combo HoD dhc'ed to a HVB that OTG's and forces a roll...my friend used to do it but I can't pick up his timing that well, and its been ages since he used bh...wonderin if you could shed some light on me =)

SUCH A goOD QUESTION< BUMP>

[Gasp]

can someone hook it up with good vids of black heart
i want to see how hes played

[Radiant93]

yeah. i want to see some BH in action too.

[Deathfist]

There are even more videos from the tiltmatic tourney where Stiltman faught killakelly. In those other matches, he faught some magnetos. Those matches are now up.

My question is slightly different...

Do you have matches besides those ones of you or other good players playing?

Also, I want to see if someone can get more matches of Samnang playing.

[pipipi]

Well, here are 2 videos of me playing with BH that are in youtube. Enjoy and feel free to sugest/critic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbI-23OkIZw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn-OzG1fG0k

PS: Now that I've a camera, I'll record more matches of me playing with bh than I'll post here.

PS2: I've some more videos in my home. When I get there I'll put them on youtube than post here.

[StiltMan]

Those matches (if you're talking about the ones against Crizzle and Chunk) happened a couple months after the one against Kelly. Some of those matches, I'm actually a little mad at myself over, to be honest; I did much better against Chunk at the tourney after that one, but it didn't get caught on tape.

Preppy has a few matches of mine on his site as well.

I'm hella rusty now due to work schedule; Kelly actually beat me in a couple rematches last month. Strangely enough, that same tournament I was the only person who beat Randy Lew (who was using Team Row), who went on to win the tourney out of the losers' bracket. Not sure how that happens. :looney:

[StiltMan]

Okay, I've got two immediate reactions to those two videos, pipipi.

The first one is, if you've got either Commando or Cyclops, why are you also going for Sentinel-A? It's redundant as a set-up and the drones are so good to mix with BH's demons for space control that I can't imagine wanting to get rid of it if you've already got a setup with your other assist.

The second one is, you're super jumping way too much with BH. You should only be super jumping against Magneto to get out of a position that you just can't save (i.e. he's right in your face and you decide it's better to take your chances and get out of there than try to pushblock him out), and even then it's often better to take a normal jump and try to let Sentinel's drones or Commando clear the area. BH is very hard to uproot from a ground position if the player can keep his cool and not surrender that spot; even I'm sometimes not very good at doing so when I've got a Crizzle or Chunksta's Magneto in my face, especially when I'm out of practice and I forget it. (I got more or less wiped out in the Chunk match that's up there, whereas I lost 2-1 and I was competitively in every game to the bitter end in our next meeting, and the main difference was, I didn't give up the ground position nearly so trivially as I did in those videos.) It takes a lot of nerve, but BH will be so much more effective against Magneto for doing it.

[StiltMan]

Bump to get "buy my PS cheep dawgs!!!!!11!!1!ONE!" spam off of the "most recent post" list in the strategy directory.

[BornAgainCommunist]

Bump to get "buy my PS cheep dawgs!!!!!11!!1!ONE!" spam off of the "most recent post" list in the strategy directory.

only to be replaced by officer freindly giving little billy a poo ticket?

[50mOrEcEnTz]

i really like bh/cable/sentinel-a



that said, i play msp but we all know, msp counter is santhrax. i can play santhrax as well, but would actually like a team to form a direct counter to santhrax. the more i think about it i think this team could serve as a counter to just that. i would probably run it sentinel first though, just because i think sent/bh vs sent/xxx is slanted in sent/bh's favor because you do not have to get in the same ranges as every other sent/xxx duo. this is totally not including the little semi trap.

bh also could go first against sentinel or any other teams i might encounter in using this team as a counter to santhrax. i just wont put him against a cable or something like that.

i guess i would appreciate it if somebody could break down some of bh's tricks for me with this team such as:
(assist punishing methods)-with bh all i can think of is inferno xx hod, and inferno xx hod inferno chest super on sentinels

(bh's sj.fp or j.fp)-using this move is VERY effective for people trying to land close hits on you. but it seems that there are VERY many ways to do this move to increase efficiency. sj up/back fp ad/b sj.lk seems to cover the range that most magneto's will come at you. sentinel's angles are easier to cut off. i was just wondering if anybody had any knowledge to share about this move. also, it seems like j.fp is pretty good for keeping people off and doing ghey random guard strings.

any information and team formation suggestions (order) would be very helpful with bh/cable/sent

[density]

Hey stilt How do u rate ur BH overall compare to other BH players????

[Deathfist]

Minor thing that needs experimentation with as it MIGHT become big.

If you call Sentinel Drones and Magneto collides with them, depending on how the impact occurs and how far away your opponent is, you can on reflex [if you're on the ground] hit hk and it will hit them. Then you can super them.

The perticular situation I'm discussing here primarily is one where the person is trying to come down on you from above for any reason, with descent from a superjump airdash trying to get in over the hp. It can be from directly above, or from an angle where he's coming in real high [and hits the drones the wrong way].

The inspiration from this came from a problem opponent of mine. I decided to flowchart his Magneto out of the match in hopes of killing his Storm at a later date. I kept using jumpback hp, and he eventually sj and AD f, and it was then that I called Sentinel and blocked. He kept impaling himself and lost Magneto. At home afterwards I explored methods of making the situation worse and this is where I found this.

Also, jumping forwards or backwards, or airdashing with hk may combo off the drones. I may want to experiment further with this. IMHO, You should too.

[ThisGuileKillYa]

Ever since discovering this thread I've been loving team Watts (BH Sent CC). but I started to consider, and then use, Cyclops instead of Commando. I even made a thread in the General Stretgy section asking about why I'd pick one over the other for team scrub. But I like this team way more than scrub.. and the question remains. I never see anyone putting Cyclops into this team.. how come? It seems much easier to Inferno HOD off a cyke assist. Now I could very much understand if the reason is about defense and what CapComs assist gives you there. But are there any other reasons I should know about why it would be silly to go BH Sent Cyke??

On a similar note, can anyone explain for me the timing for getting inferno xx HOD off of a commando assist? I seem to miss it a lot, and I want to adhere to stiltman's rule #3 that one solid BH hit should lead to massive damage(he said a dead character, but one step at a time hehe).

Also, what exactly should I be doing if I land a standing or crouching LK-MK? commando assist during the 1st hit? or after the 2nd? Im a little fuzzy on this. if I could make every landed LK-MK into big damage I'd be a happy camper. It's much easier with Cyke, but if COmmando is better I want to make that work.

Thanks!

[DAWOLF57]

this thread makes my want to play BH, good stuff.

[Dios <-X->]

^-^ teach meh tactics for the team i use , Sent , Cable , BH

[StiltMan]

It's not harder to do inferno/HOD off of Commando than Cyclops unless the character you're doing it to is either Sentinel or Juggernaut, in which case you can just do fierce dark thunder into HOD and it works just as well. It's just a different timing. It is easier to do it on reaction if somebody walks into Cyclops at random, but this is fool's gold for the most part because nobody who's any good is going to walk into it very much.

BH/Commando and BH/Cyclops, in a lot of ways, are almost different characters. BH/Cyclops maximizes BH's poking game (which is very good) and is probably optimized by just staying in people's face and keeping Cyclops as a constant threat, much like you see Justin doing with MSP and Psylocke. BH/Commando makes the most of his zoning and space control game (which is also very good) to cut off the angles where aggressive opponents can attack from and defensive opponents can run away. The other thing is, BH/Commando can combo off of sj. rh a lot more effe