How to tell if your Blackheart sucks...

[StiltMan]

Ah, I thought the opponent could not recover on the way down. I have this one trick where if BH AAA hits, I have my Bulleta or Zangief perform their grab supers just before the opponent hits the floor. No one has ever escaped from this; but this may be because no one knows how, or by nature of the HC's being grabs.

Okay, absolutely no offense intended here... but no, BH assist only bounces them up, they're perfectly able to move and do whatever they want shortly after they've taken one or two hits off of it. And if you're actually getting a FAB off of it and getting away with that, then your opposition really, really sucks. :sweat:

[Tech Romancer]

So you can only combo off of the AAA going up....got it.

[Khiempossible]

I don't know, are there any assists where you can actually hit halfway decently on reaction with both Sentinel and Cable that have any real priority to them?

EDIT: Other than Psylocke and Tron? Tron, I imagine, could work halfway well with those two... Psylocke, maybe not so much, too easily punished.

gief/mecha gief .

gief by himself is great, gief with mecha is priority. hit confirm AHVB like nothing.

not sure about HSF so much though. maybe gief crossup fly away land spit rocket punch super works. I donno. I've never tried it.

now that I think of it. akuma hurricane kicks work in a very similar fashion.

[StiltMan]

Yeah, and there's also Iron Man AAA sort of, which is probably the best all around one that fits the bill. Too bad I suck with Iron Man on point.

[Khiempossible]

sometimes i OCV MSP like nothing and sometimes I get taken out in one good hit by magneto and lose the game.

I really like Cable with BH AND cyke behind him.

call BH then sj. FP/jab xx grenade fall and then still get an action/AHVB on the way down is too good.

same with fp x 1-4 + BH

for everything else there's cyclops.

[lovepig78]

BH/cable/cyc is easily my number two team

cable with BH AAA traps are to nice
and cyc puts em back in place if the manage to escape

but comp over here is to serious and i usually just stick to BH/sent/(capcom/cyc)

[Khiempossible]

I'm wondering if bh/storm/capcom has any tricks

particularly storm/bh-AAA

[Deathfist]

I'm wondering if bh/storm/capcom has any tricks

particularly storm/bh-AAA

Storm on point:
dlk, hk+capcom, hail, lightning storm, DHC HOD
Dlk+BH, Standing hk, hailstorm, lightning storm.

BH on point:
Any hp that touches the opponent with you standing on the ground, Armageddon, fast cancel Hail.

[StiltMan]

Against airdashing Magnus. jab inferno, j. short/fwd/Commando/air JD/instant DHC hail. Ghetto, but it would work.

[Tech Romancer]

Fuck.

[Khiempossible]

Storm on point:
dlk, hk+capcom, hail, lightning storm, DHC HOD
Dlk+BH, Standing hk, hailstorm, lightning storm.

BH on point:
Any hp that touches the opponent with you standing on the ground, Armageddon, fast cancel Hail.

yeah i use armageddon for hella frame kill. I know low short low strong xx armageddon frame kill to hail storm combos.

am i getting those combos right? you can combo d.lk, hk + capcom into hailstorm, then do a lightning storm cancel instantly and get HOD to combo?

or am i actually capable of comboing lightning storm after hail storm?

most of the shit i did today was just be insanely cheap and runaway + chip all day. HOD combos into hailstorm cause I start BH. The rest of just storm/capcom and BH to reset opponent whenever he super jumps (i.e. bait a super jump and call BH = opponent auto blocks and has to guess blocking on the way down).

Against airdashing Magnus. jab inferno, j. short/fwd/Commando/air JD/instant DHC hail. Ghetto, but it would work.

I don't understand what you just said.

Storm behind BH is so handy. all of BH supers suddenly become safe DHCs to storm.

way better than the bullshit Air JD into time flip that cable depends on. Or his less than exciting HOD DHC HVB.

and bh can alpha counter in much like storm can with inferno xx HOD I never knew that until today.

and storm proj is hella good. like it better than drones. short + storm roundhouse combos into HOD much like short + drones roundhouse will.

I've also done. c.jab + BH c.strong s.forward sj 1234 la xx LS. back into HOD.

that's fun.

storm proj assist with demon back up is disgusting though.

[judge_rl]

I think StiltMan was saying that Blackheart has a lot of shit he can hit confirm and DHC Hail into and listed some options.

I like Blackheart/Storm/CaptCom. So many options and this one is decent. Well, I like Blackheart, period. :tup:

edit:

I like the following reset (amongst other things) with the BlkhrtStrmCpcm team:

w/ Storm

lk, mk (plus Blackheart), launch, sj.hp (into Inferno which knocks up) xx AD/UF or F (to cross up stunned opp), sj.lk (you can either link it or delay, but delay of course for the reset) xx LA xx LS

solid reset option but could also just be used as a LA xx LS linker after sj.fp

...if you tweak it, you can use the 2nd hit of the Inferno to reset for free:

after launcher, sj.lk, AD/DF to cross up and wait to see if they block the 2nd hit of the Inferno...if not sj up and finish, though you could just Hail and assume they won't block the 2nd hit...if so you have advantage mix-up as they fall being they can't call assist during that period

...or you can FSD into LS...which would allow you to DHC Blackheart being he is no longer on-screen

and this combo is so hot it slows the game down, literally (sometimes):

w/ Capcom

lk, hk (+Blackheart) xx CC xx CS (around 80pts for 1 bar...finally CaptCom doesn't get cheated out of his dmg b/c of height)

for those who miss the LS xx HSF DHC, try this:

w/ Storm

launch (+CptCom) xx Hail xx HoD ~121pts

[StiltMan]

What I said was partly part of a brainstorm on uses for jab inferno. See, usually I personally will go up to meet a Magneto or Storm air-to-air when they airdash over the top of stuff like drones or j. fierce. However, just to take a chess move view of it, it's basically a terrible idea.

Here's what can go right:

1. You get a j. jab/strong, maybe jab/short/strong/airdash/repeat XX air throw. So basically you get maybe 10-20% guaranteed damage on a fairly trickshot air combo and maybe an air throw too, and you get a minor positional advantage again by forcing them back to the ground. W00t?

2. Maybe if you finish with a rh, they'll forget to block and you can hurt them more on the ground. But they'd have to be retards.

Here's what can go wrong:

1. Magneto can air combo into hyper grav/tempest/instant DHC hail.

2. Magneto can air combo into rh and set up a reset once he gets back to the ground.

3. Storm can do Storm/Sent DHC.

Okay, call me paranoid, but what I'm seeing in the "wrong" column is way worse than the "right" column is good. You may or may not get 10% damage or a little more in return for risking getting pretty much killed.

Now here's a similar set of things for jab inferno.

1. If you have Commando behind you, you can get j. short/fwd/Commando, which probably does like 30-40% of damage or so without meter. Not just awesome, but not too shabby either. If you have Storm right behind BH, you can tack on air JD/DHC hail, which might add another 30% or so. (Thus the example I gave earlier.)

2. If you have Cyclops behind you, you can probably do the same combination, and if Cyclops bounces just right, you probably can also get back to the ground and do fierce inferno into whatever combo you want. BH/Storm/Cyclops is an obvious DHC to hail. If you started Sent/BH/Cyclops and you've now rotated order to BH/Cyclops/Sentinel, that's a pretty wicked triple DHC through MOB to HSF. Or Cyclops might just utterly biff it, hard to say, this is one reason I don't always entirely care for Cyclops with BH, because just slightly off the ground he messes up a lot of stuff that's consistent with Commando. But it's at least a possibility for a lot of damage if it bounces right.

3. You can do j. rh as they're landing. IF you can manage to do this early enough to bounce them back up in the air, a team like Watts can do the full DHC off of it with st. short. This probably can't actually be done on a practical level but it's a dream.

4. You can launch into fierce/inferno/HOD. This folds out more or less the same as the previous examples as far as what you might do afterwards. The double inferno by itself isn't just completely pathetic damage, although the launcher is probably a bit tricky to actually do.

Okay, now here's what can go wrong...

1. They can fly cancel to avoid running into it. But if they do, you can do either fierce DT or fierce inferno afterwards, so it's very risky to do it. They have to stay on the other side of the jab inferno column, so the only assist they can really call is Sent-A, and they'll get only the rocket punch anyway. However, if you follow up with an AAA into either DT or inferno, you can zone off pretty much all that flying space. Unfly mode might be able to help them out but it's still a pretty dangerous plan.

2. They can air super and immediately DHC into something that hits you on the ground from the other side of the inferno column. However, I think they just about have to anticipate in order to do this, because by the time the inferno comes out they're going to be right in the middle of it at basically any airdash spacing at all. Storm might be able to stop short easier, Magneto probably has to super before he actually sees it. Mag/IM/Sentinel is probably the worst nightmare here if he anticipates right. Mag/Storm hurts, but less than IM/Sentinel. Storm/Sent might be painful but more likely it's not going to actually bounce right on the HSF to do much damage. If they don't have the meter to fully capitalize, then you don't care anyway. If they just randomly super up there and don't cancel it, it's stupidly easy for you to do inferno/armageddon or any one of a number of other nasty things to them up there, and they can't really see it in time to do anything about it. This is at best a push for them, and it's really risky to burn a bunch of meter just hoping that you do what they expect; if you don't do it absolutely every time they airdash then it's not worth it at all, and if they're guessing and not cancelling until they see a column then they're asking to get hurt if you vary it a little and sometimes just wait to see what they do. Almost all the possible outcomes here go worse for them than you other than guessing right with Mag/IM/Sentinel.

3. Magneto can try to stop his airdash with a blind mag disruptor or a hyper grav. The hyper grav is potentially the more dangerous option but it's basically a fishing expedition and you can probably mash out before you get to them anyway.

4. Storm can lightning attack backwards if she thinks you're going to do it, but this will pretty much defeat the purpose of airdashing forwards in the first place, and is also somewhat dangerous in exposing her to counters from BH still on the ground. The risk to you is basically zero since she can't come down through the inferno column anyway (it's still between you and her), whereas the risk to her if she guesses wrong is not negligible. So ultimately this isn't really "gone wrong"...

I don't know... anyone think of anything I missed that can go wrong or something else you can do if it goes right?

[BlackHeartKing]

jab infernos is old new for me. (storms/sent/mags run into it all day when they're not patient)

it's especially good in the corner against ANYONE b/c if you bust two standing/crouching hits plus commando into jp inferno xxx hod, it can't be pushblocked and escaped from b/c the column is a little bit away from the end of the screen and the opponent is only half way in it. (also note the the jp inferno stops assist like commando so you can use it on a scrub user once you get them in the corner without fear)*if they call commando the jp aa to hod stops the hit from attacking and pops him up so that he gets hit by the hod*

on another note, some storm combos I like:

c.lk, c.mk, s.rh + bh assist, sj. LA uf, LA uf, LS *this is a reset*
the first LA hits b4 the bh assist, the second goes just under the enemy so that they get crossed up by the delayed hit from the bh assist right into the LS

In corner on sentinel...

ad.df.rh, cr.lk, cr.mk, s.rh, bh assist, sj.lk, sj.lk, lk whirlwind, ad.uf.lk, lk, LA, LS
I posted this on on youtube but the damn thing is all blurry and stuff. the delayed hit from bh assist brings sentinel back up from the whirlwind so that you can airdash up and combo the last part.

I also put some vids on youtube of how to go into the blackheart infinite from storm-a assist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WpTUSSsr3Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxxpqBpKxNU

[Deathfist]

yeah i use armageddon for hella frame kill. I know low short low strong xx armageddon frame kill to hail storm combos.

am i getting those combos right? you can combo d.lk, hk + capcom into hailstorm, then do a lightning storm cancel instantly and get HOD to combo?

or am i actually capable of comboing lightning storm after hail storm?

I think both work. What I wrote is a full blown combo. dlk, hk+Capcom, Immediate cancel to Hail, mash, lightning storm the moment the thing ends before your Storm is able to move and it will combo. You can even let a small amount of electricity escape, and DHC long before it touches allowing it to move and hit during the frame freeze into Blackheart's HOD. I think you might even be able do airdash down + an attack [whiffs...,], then typhoonXX Hail for a second Hailstorm in the same combo.

[joe doe]

From experience BH/storm/capcom doesn't go anywhere beyond casual. Storm needs a good sentinel to back her up, and blackheart it isn't good enough for that kind of game.

Stick to cables and sentinel they are the main game for blackheart

by the way i just heard that sanford is playing team watts, i always played him with my blackheart but he never showed any interest in picking blackheart up. I would stay tuned to sanford game he always improves some shit on the game he picks up.

[Deth-Scyanyde]

From experience BH/storm/capcom doesn't go anywhere beyond casual. Storm needs a good sentinel to back her up, and blackheart it isn't good enough for that kind of game.

Stick to cables and sentinel they are the main game for blackheart

by the way i just heard that sanford is playing team watts, i always played him with my blackheart but he never showed any interest in picking blackheart up. I would stay tuned to sanford game he always improves some shit on the game he picks up.

Sanford was always an 'under the radar' Blackheart player...ppl just never caught sight ov these things. His BH = RAPEage to the 10th degree...

[Khiempossible]

Sanford was always an 'under the radar' Blackheart player...ppl just never caught sight ov these things. His BH = RAPEage to the 10th degree...

I would love vids.

All my bullshit is oldschool.

[joe doe]

deth-scynide do you usually go to CTF? cause lately i've seen a couple of dudes playing blackheart. IF you have i know that for sure you've seen me in chinatown fair probably even played against me once.

I've seen sanford's team watts, and it's alright. his blackheart is above average but not there yet. In time if he sticks to it i bet he'll be teaching how to play blackheart.

[Deth-Scyanyde]

I'm there once in a while when I can (I have fatherly duties to attend to these days). I have a feeling I know who you are...I'm the spic that usually plays the team on my AV (LOL) and don't think we've played each other yet.

I'm actually heading out there in a bit today so if you want to meet up and chill I don't mind bro...

[AK]

I think BH is hot, but I prefer BH/cyc over bh/capcom for pure rushdown capabilities. I'm sure anybody else who still plays from Boston agrees haha.

JoeDoe, are you 'Bear'? I don't see anybody else using BH at CF besides Bear and occasionally myself. If you're Bear, your BH is pretty good. I'll have to do a bh vs. bh match for next tourney haha.

BH can be sick in the right hands. One hit from cyc/capcom = 50% damage that's very hard to mess up and it's fairly safe with the right precautions. And BH is a great stall character. I'd only use BH/Cable/Cyc in a tourney, but that's just me.

[joe doe]

deth-scynide, sorry i didn't check the thread yesterday, i could have gone to CF and probably played a little. But, i had a lot of work yesterday anyway so probably it wasn't a good day anyway. If you are going to the tourney then i'll see you there.

AK, i don't know if that is how people call me behind my back since i am a BIG guy and often with a beard. So maybe that is how i am known, but i havent heard anyone call me that ever, so maybe you are mistaking me for someone else. However i am always there, at least lately, since my job is near CF. So if you normally go there then you must have seen me, i am a BIG, black guy, who always plays BLACKHEART/CABLE/CAPCOM.

[Khiempossible]

This is from T9, a mediocre player playing Jwong. It's BH/Spiral/Cyke mirror. Jwong shows some basic gameplay, nothing really fancy though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPSJhTDH2zo

[joe doe]

AK i think i know who you are you are the guys playing Cable/Strider/T.bone right??

if so then you have a pretty good blackheart yourself!! you always like picking weird teams and somehow you make them work so for that i give you mad props!!

By the way, why you stop playing spiral?? i think your spiral is insanely tough to play against you should pick her up again.

[BlackHeartKing]

I'm in the thought process of making a blackheart tutorial/combo video with the help of lovepig and some others. Anything in particular you guys think I should display in terms of strategy and combos?

I was already planning on addressing:
---the right and wrong habits to have
---demon manipulation
---dash uses
---combos from certain assist (maybe all of them cuz I'm sure you can)
---gaurd breaks (solo and with assist)
---corner strategies (solo and with assist)
---assist infinites
---cross ups on incoming characters (solo and with assist)
---resets (solo and with assists)
---assist specific strategies
---assist punishment techniques (because I've never seen one vid of a bh user doing this)
---solid DHCs and follow-ups
---combos and uses for the blackheart aa assist

*if there are any strategies and combos that you want seen, post them up now (teams and whatnot) so I'll make sure not to miss anything*... something tells me that this is gonna be a long video lol

[Khiempossible]

just be sure to include practical shit only. and among combos off assists, include shit like AAA and then combo a sj. jab short strong roundhouse into ground reset.

or air to air jab situations. for instance when i air to air jab someone and they block i'll jab short strong fierce xx backdash, but if i combo i'll throw roundhouse demons.

and traps. Definitely show traps for all the top 4 characters with BH on point and on assist.

[Deth-Scyanyde]

I'm in the thought process of making a blackheart tutorial/combo video with the help of lovepig and some others. Anything in particular you guys think I should display in terms of strategy and combos?

I was already planning on addressing:
---the right and wrong habits to have
---demon manipulation
---dash uses
---combos from certain assist (maybe all of them cuz I'm sure you can)
---gaurd breaks (solo and with assist)
---corner strategies (solo and with assist)
---assist infinites
---cross ups on incoming characters (solo and with assist)
---resets (solo and with assists)
---assist specific strategies
---assist punishment techniques (because I've never seen one vid of a bh user doing this)
---solid DHCs and follow-ups
---combos and uses for the blackheart aa assist

*if there are any strategies and combos that you want seen, post them up now (teams and whatnot) so I'll make sure not to miss anything*... something tells me that this is gonna be a long video lol

One thing I'll say here before I add anything is to search for ANY vids featuring BH and make certain that you don't accidently emulate something that was already showcased.

-Mechanics ov the Inferno semi-infinite would be helpful.
-Only showcase combos/setups/resets with the assists that matter (or are played)
*Sent Ground
*CapCom AAA
*Cyke AAA
*Doom AAA
*Magnus Proj.
*Storm Expan.
*Storm Var.
*Guile AAA (a la Mikeheart)
*Cable AAA
-Poke/demon blockstrings would be great for this as well...
-SJC combos (assisted or solo)

I have some practical combos for BH in the archive, but don't have access to it at the moment so I'll try to hit up training mode and find some off the wall stuff with him...also, I'd try to get in contact with Stilt-Man and Dasrik (the latter may be somewhat difficult to attain) and have them contribute if able <just my personal opinion there>.

What's the 'deadline' before vid production begins so that I'll know how much time I have to compile data?

Good luck guys...
-Scythe-

[BlackHeartKing]

I planned on doing all that, minus the stuff for storm variety. I don't really know anything for that assist except for stall tactics like... call assist inferno (blocked into blocked assist). Your help would be greatly appreciated if you know something I'm missing.

As for contacting stilt and dasrik, I'm posting on here so that they can give input if they want to. If not, it doesn't matter. I don't even know of any vids on blackheart, but it's not like what I'm doing is for my own credit. I'm gonna put a disclaimer at the beginning of it or something explaining that this isn't all my stuff anyways, and then I'll give thanks to anyone that gives me any material to put in the vid.

The "deadline" will be around the last week of August since I won't be making the vid at all if it isn't b4 September 2nd (when I start back at school).

Thanks and hope this goes well.

[Khiempossible]

I planned on doing all that, minus the stuff for storm variety. I don't really know anything for that assist except for stall tactics like... call assist inferno (blocked into blocked assist). Your help would be greatly appreciated if you know something I'm missing.

my marvel skills are pretty second rate. but I will try and consciously work some shit out since storm is on my team. Where's stiltman? maybe he knows some tricks.

One thing I'll say here before I add anything is to search for ANY vids featuring BH and make certain that you don't accidently emulate something that was already showcased.

actually, shit that's already been showcased is aok. If it's a tutorial type video, you should have all the good shit in there, so that way it's all compiled in one vid instead of peeps having to search all over the place.

[BlackHeartKing]

I forgot to put down that I'm gonna show good uses for BH's throw. I NEVER see people using it but it's so good at breaking those that play too defensive, thinking they can block all his stuff.

on another note, someone post some links to some blackheart vids. I can't find any that showcase anything besides the infinites for the most part... I'd really like for some one to show me something new damn it but it seems BH is just too damn unexplored.

[Deth-Scyanyde]

I forgot to put down that I'm gonna show good uses for BH's throw. I NEVER see people using it but it's so good at breaking those that play too defensive, thinking they can block all his stuff.

on another note, someone post some links to some blackheart vids. I can't find any that showcase anything besides the infinites for the most part... I'd really like for some one to show me something new damn it but it seems BH is just too damn unexplored.

If you haven't already...look through the Meikyousisui vids (especially the later volumes). I know that one ov them showcases the Inferno semi-infinite, and a few others have random BH stuff in them (I don't know which ones for certain).

Dasrik's vids definitely have some things as well...I can't think ov anything else at the top ov my head atm.

[BlackHeartKing]

If you haven't already...look through the Meikyousisui vids (especially the later volumes). I know that one ov them showcases the Inferno semi-infinite, and a few others have random BH stuff in them (I don't know which ones for certain).

Dasrik's vids definitely have some things as well...I can't think ov anything else at the top ov my head atm.

I forgot all about the meikyousisui vids. But if I remember right they didn't have much usable stuff for BH. I think an infinite from the HOD super but that's it...

As for Dasrik's vids. Are you talking about the two on zachd.com? If so, there wasn't anything new in those. They showed the DHC to HSF, and the c.mp launcher stuff and that was it. If there's other vids, let me know.

[Deathfist]

I'm in the thought process of making a blackheart tutorial/combo video with the help of lovepig and some others. Anything in particular you guys think I should display in terms of strategy and combos?

I was already planning on addressing:
---the right and wrong habits to have
---demon manipulation
---dash uses
---combos from certain assist (maybe all of them cuz I'm sure you can)
---gaurd breaks (solo and with assist)
---corner strategies (solo and with assist)
---assist infinites
---cross ups on incoming characters (solo and with assist)
---resets (solo and with assists)
---assist specific strategies
---assist punishment techniques (because I've never seen one vid of a bh user doing this)
---solid DHCs and follow-ups
---combos and uses for the blackheart aa assist

*if there are any strategies and combos that you want seen, post them up now (teams and whatnot) so I'll make sure not to miss anything*... something tells me that this is gonna be a long video lol

Here is a compendium of combos that I made earlier. Second post. If you want, you can put these in your video.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=44304&page=19

And you're right. This will be a long video. Worthwhile too.

[Dasrik]

As for Dasrik's vids. Are you talking about the two on zachd.com? If so, there wasn't anything new in those. They showed the DHC to HSF, and the c.mp launcher stuff and that was it. If there's other vids, let me know.
Those were combo videos.

I unfortunately have bad luck with getting videos of myself playing. There was one fairly basic SHGL matchvid from way back when, but it doesn't show anything that useful.

I hear lovepig plays BH. I dunno who he is, but I'd like to see it. Come to James Games, I might show up this weekend. Maybe.

[Deth-Scyanyde]

Those were combo videos.

I unfortunately have bad luck with getting videos of myself playing. There was one fairly basic SHGL matchvid from way back when, but it doesn't show anything that useful.

I hear lovepig plays BH. I dunno who he is, but I'd like to see it. Come to James Games, I might show up this weekend. Maybe.

Oh Wow...:wow::wow:
Didn't think that you still roamed around here.
(Ugh...don't get me started with Yugi-Monz)
It's good to see you again.

To BHK:
Due to a situation my archive (laptop) hath been destroyed and I've lost whatever stuff I had on there (*sigh* including the 90% completed Doom guide...FUGG!!) so I may be out ov the game for quite a while unless the data SOMEHOW gets retrieved...

[Dasrik]

Yeah, I'm thinking of coming back. I came on like I do every month or so to check my messages and I got a message from someone relaying a message from Apoc saying he wanted to see me at Evo. It's unfortunately not possible, but it got me feeling nostalgic so I thought I'd post again.

And yeah, those combos in the video? That was the result of sticking square pegs into round holes until the damn thing fit. I suck at combos as anyone who played me will attest to. But if you can do them, more power to ya. ^.^

edit: It's been awhile and I don't really play anymore, but I'll dispense advice tempered with salt if anyone wants. Be aware that I'm rusty and old though.

[BlackHeartKing]

Here is a compendium of combos that I made earlier. Second post. If you want, you can put these in your video.

I forgot all about that stuff we posted back then. Well... I didn't forget to put that stuff in the vid but I forgot that it was posted on here. Funny, I read your post about how you learned all the combos you posted the hard way and I felt for you cuz I'm in the same boat. Kinda sucks when you think you came up with something cool only to find out that others already know about it.

Those were combo videos.

I hear lovepig plays BH. I dunno who he is, but I'd like to see it. Come to James Games, I might show up this weekend. Maybe.

Lovepig = Blackheart prince. He's gotten a lot better since I first met him.



To BHK:
Due to a situation my archive (laptop) hath been destroyed and I've lost whatever stuff I had on there (*sigh* including the 90% completed Doom guide...FUGG!!) so I may be out ov the game for quite a while unless the data SOMEHOW gets retrieved...

damn that sucks. I would have liked to see the doom stuff too since I've been getting into him more as of lately. Don't worry too much about it thought for the BH stuff, cuz from what I see, I've got all that and much more covered.

P.S. Should I post up the type out of what's going on it so far?

[Deathfist]

I developed a way to pull a Yipes Magneto Storm-a combo with Magneto-BH.

1]Dhp. If it hits, call BH, sj hp, ad df hp, hk, dhk.
-If you did it right, the person is otg'd by the inferno, and hit by the dhk before they are sent into the forced roll.
2]Continue the combo with one of the following...
-Hypergrav into whatever you want
-Sj cancel into the Rom infinite
-Shockwave super

NOTE: These are just what I was able to pull of since my Magneto sucks. There's nothing to stop you from doing the slide infinite out of this.

-I'm adding this into the compendium.

[BlackHeartKing]

I developed a way to pull a Yipes Magneto Storm-a combo with Magneto-BH.

1]Dhp. If it hits, call BH, sj hp, ad df hp, hk, dhk.
-If you did it right, the person is otg'd by the inferno, and hit by the dhk before they are sent into the forced roll.
2]Continue the combo with one of the following...
-Hypergrav into whatever you want
-Sj cancel into the Rom infinite
-Shockwave super

NOTE: These are just what I was able to pull of since my Magneto sucks. There's nothing to stop you from doing the slide infinite out of this.

-I'm adding this into the compendium.

yeah I had that as an idea for a combo but I could never input the commands quick enough. The one I ended up putting in my BH catalog is...

c.lk, c.FP, BH-B, sj.RH, ad.DF, sj.RH, c.RH, HG, Tempest

[Deth-Scyanyde]

BHK:
"P.S. Should I post up the type out of what's going on it so far?"

The guide format/contents? If you wish PM it to me and I'll review it there...wouldn't want to leak any ov it just yet...>>...

As far as the Doom stuff it's all in my mind so I can redo it with a computer and some time (and these days we aren't given much time to do anything).

[judge_rl]

To BHK:
Due to a situation my archive (laptop) hath been destroyed and I've lost whatever stuff I had on there (*sigh* including the 90% completed Doom guide...FUGG!!) so I may be out ov the game for quite a while unless the data SOMEHOW gets retrieved...

:sad: That sucks...good thing you remembered most of your stuff. Can't wait for the vid though guys. :tup:

[BlackHeartKing]

yeah, as long as it's in your head, you should be okay. I personally have a problem getting stuff out of my head though -_-

The BHK catalog for the video is now in the 6th page (typed) and I'm sure there's still stuff that I'm forgetting to put in. There are guard breaks for outside of the corner but I haven't even put them in the catalog. I might put them on the vid. Do you think I have enough already Deth?

[Deth-Scyanyde]

For the time being yes...just deal with what you're able to work with and add to it when you are 100% certain that what you produced is truly practical and set in stone. You don't want to go overboard adding a bunch ov aspects and then go back to stuff that you think you may have not elaborated on enough...

...well, I can't say that you'll suffer from that problem...but it does tend to happen when you work on stuff like this...

Nonetheless it is good as I've read thus far...stick with it and go into production when ready. If you feel in the end that it isn't enough you can always add to it or release 'BH Tutorial Vol.2' xD...

...sorry about the posts...I've had a lot on my mind as ov late...>>...

Judge: I'll begin writing up the Doom stuff in a written archive tonight...I should be finished by the end ov the weekend...from there, who knows...

[joe doe]

Hey did anyone go to EVO 2008? i wanted to go but i had a surprise visit by a family member that i haven't seen in 10+ years so i didn't go. Man!! i heard That Only a few of the top MVC2 players went this year. OH Well?!

[BlackHeartKing]

I never go to evo =\

on another note... I think my sj.RH "cross up" might, quite possibly, be an unblockable O_o
more to come concerning this. could be tier breaking for BH *thumbs up*

[lovepig78]

i went to EVO. but didnt play too much marvel, hooked on that SF4.

hopefully i can meet up with Darsik this following weekend at James to discuss some BH nonsense

BHK and I should start recording this friday, or at least i will start recording on what i have

all in all i am hoping on making 2 vids.

BHK and I will be making the useful BH vid

with the help of the community


and if all goes well i mite be able to talk magnetro into helping me out with a flashy BH vid, but mostly with random shinanigans, with the help of BHK

ps. BHK i found something out strange, the other day.... happens when either storm or mags tries to GB BH

i'll tell ya in more detail later


HIT ME UP ON AIM

[BlackHeartKing]

i went to EVO. but didnt play too much marvel, hooked on that SF4.

hopefully i can meet up with Darsik this following weekend at James to discuss some BH nonsense

BHK and I should start recording this friday, or at least i will start recording on what i have

all in all i am hoping on making 2 vids.

BHK and I will be making the useful BH vid

with the help of the community


and if all goes well i mite be able to talk magnetro into helping me out with a flashy BH vid, but mostly with random shinanigans, with the help of BHK

ps. BHK i found something out strange, the other day.... happens when either storm or mags tries to GB BH

i'll tell ya in more detail later


HIT ME UP ON AIM

definitely interested to here bout it. I forgot your aim sn though. is it the same as it is on here? mine is d0rk1usmax1mus

[Khiempossible]

launch or air to air jab short strong roundhouse demons xx dash = ambiguous crossup + demons.

In the corner you can do launch or air to air jab short strong fall a bit fierce demons xx back dash.

pigs go off screen and don't come back for an hour, meanwhile you still have 1 action left before falling and demons coming back while your opponent can't see them.

I'm not sure how old these shenanigans are or how well they work.

[Dasrik]

Sorry I didn't show up lovepig. I'll try to appear this weekend, although Saturday is likelier than Friday.

[Hollow]

This is from T9, a mediocre player playing Jwong. It's BH/Spiral/Cyke mirror. Jwong shows some basic gameplay, nothing really fancy though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPSJhTDH2zo

Khiem, mediocre is an understatement, IMO. I got a long way to go to improve. I wanted JWong to play my team so I could get a better understanding of how to play them at high levels. Since then, i have actually branched off into two teams (SpiSentCyke and BlacCabCyke).

JWong said it was hard to win with my team because of a lack of a solid transition from Blac to Spiral, or vice versa.

Also, the color edit was mine also, available to anyone who wants it.

[Khiempossible]

Khiem, mediocre is an understatement, IMO. I got a long way to go to improve. I wanted JWong to play my team so I could get a better understanding of how to play them at high levels. Since then, i have actually branched off into two teams (SpiSentCyke and BlacCabCyke).

JWong said it was hard to win with my team because of a lack of a solid transition from Blac to Spiral, or vice versa.

Also, the color edit was mine also, available to anyone who wants it.

ya, i just posted that vid to show how jwong played bheart.

that said, I would never run spiral and bheart on the same team. pretty much for those very same reasons.

i ran bheart/cable/cyke for a long while. then i learned how to play sentinel. bh/sent/capcom is just plain broken.

bh loves the drones. it makes sj. demon safe. it gives him room to square jump mixup. it gives him solid chip. it gives him the best ground cover you can get. and it gives you the ridiculously stupid DHC into HSF.

so after BH takes out a character or even half a character and you can just DHC into HSF and use sent/bh/capcom to wipe out the rest of their team.

low fierce+BH xx RH drones = gay as shit trap.

in fact all you really have to do with sent is just spit a lot and throw black heart. it's a pretty dumb lockdown. and then you can randomly fly into sent fly bullshit with capcom behind him? sent is ridiculous

[Hollow]

ya, i just posted that vid to show how jwong played bheart.

that said, I would never run spiral and bheart on the same team. pretty much for those very same reasons.

i ran bheart/cable/cyke for a long while. then i learned how to play sentinel. bh/sent/capcom is just plain broken.

bh loves the drones. it makes sj. demon safe. it gives him room to square jump mixup. it gives him solid chip. it gives him the best ground cover you can get. and it gives you the ridiculously stupid DHC into HSF.

so after BH takes out a character or even half a character and you can just DHC into HSF and use sent/bh/capcom to wipe out the rest of their team.

low fierce+BH xx RH drones = gay as shit trap.

in fact all you really have to do with sent is just spit a lot and throw black heart. it's a pretty dumb lockdown. and then you can randomly fly into sent fly bullshit with capcom behind him? sent is ridiculous

Damn. That sounds so simple, it's sick. I like it.

[Dasrik]

It's actually not that good of a trap, as if you are 3/4 of a screen or more away, you can superjump right after blocking the pillar, but it's a good setup for other things. Honestly, if locking is your goal, short drones are better than RH. It's not a lock either but it sets up more stuff that you can take advantage of.

[J360]

anyone with decent guard canceling and patience can escape that "trap" i never get caught with more then one rep, its all about not hittin that panic button

[Dasrik]

anyone with decent guard canceling and patience can escape that "trap" i never get caught with more then one rep, its all about not hittin that panic button
You don't even need guard cancelling. If the Sent/BH player hits low fierce and BH at the same time, you have like five years between the pillar and the bomber drones to superjump out. ^.^

[BlackHeartKing]

I personally love that sent/BH "trap." I abuse it along with the lk drones until they show me they can get out of it and actually punish me. I use if for frustrating the opponent, not for locking them down or chipping them or anything like that.

On another note, it's nice to know that I can beat justing wong in a money match ass long as I pick someone like dan along with my BH/cyc. I'd just have to worry about him yipe-ing me with his cyclops lol.

p.s. hey josh, where exactly is CF located in NYC?

[Deth-Scyanyde]

-Sent/BH Trap is NOT foolproof...though great against n00bs...
-CTF is located on Mott St. in Chinatown, Manhattan...down past Canal St...forgot the block that the actual arcade is closest to lmao...
-Sorry BHK, I haven't been on in a good while so I've been out ov the Marvel scene for quite some time.

[Khiempossible]

ya I definitely exaggerated when I said lockdown.

I just like spitting a lot and then punishing my opponents reactions. It's not a hard lock but spit and blackheart is still fucking dope.

[Khiempossible]

hum, so how do you guys deal with strider/doom lockdown?

i see a lot of get in close call doom then do teleport crossup into some other block string that ends in orbs. then orbs pressure into corner back in to doom back into orbs and i'm getting gayed the fuck out despite the fact that i'm blocking everything. sometimes i can call cyke to beat doom before the rocks go off. but often i can't see the holes to do it, or he's coming out after i'm getting crossed up and cyke gets gayed out by orbs while i get gayed out by doom.

I usually like to figure shit out into shit i can pushblock/block shit i can superjump or jump and shit i can short short. and optionally call either of my assists. but i can't figure out how to deal with strider doom with any of those options.

is there some option i'm ignoring with blackheart? is there an option i'm ignoring? something i'm missing? it's super hard cause this guy knows how all the demons work, probably better than i do, so i have to be perfect.

thanks for any advice.

[Dasrik]

Well, a preliminary air Roundhouse tends to eat Doom before his rocks get going. I'm not sure how but I tend to peg him with that. Superjumping and waiting to airdash until he teleports is okay too. Other than that, you can only outthink him and take advantage of his errors.

[BlackHeartKing]

i've had a lot of experience with fighting strider/doom since my bro uses him and I've been playing the likes of cl0ck and clock jr. let me know who you use and who he uses, and I'll try to put together a plan of action for you

[Hollow]

Probably not a great tactic, but If they mess up and I get to jump out the trap, I'll burn a level in the air just to stay out of it.

[BlackHeartKing]

too be honest, I don't see a problem with wasting a bar to save strider staying in control of the match. what I do first though and sj.RH, air dash to an immeadiate RH so that you get the float animation that keeps you in the air longer. and then, if the angle is right and you have them pinned, air JD. this not only avoids the chip fest but puts you on the offensive

[Khiempossible]

I'm still experimenting.

I'll rock
bh/cable/cyke
bh/sent-drones/cyke or capcom or cable
bh/doom/cyke or cable
bh/doom/sent

I've been experimenting with mags/bh/sent-rocket punch though

for simplicity let's say i'm running bh/sent-drones/cyke though.

speaking of which, short+sent rocket punch short column super combos if you column early.

dirrrrrrty.

anybody else know how to make mags with bh behind him dirty? i think i remember hearing/seeing mags do some variation of 5 fierce, but calls bh and gets bh column to combo as an unrollable OTG at some point. or set up an unmashable tempest.

I'm not a mags player I just know how to tri jump over most assists and keep the pressure on til i land 5 fierce into resets back into 5 fierce.

[BlackHeartKing]

I'm still experimenting.

I'll rock
bh/cable/cyke
bh/sent-drones/cyke or capcom or cable
bh/doom/cyke or cable
bh/doom/sent

I've been experimenting with mags/bh/sent-rocket punch though

for simplicity let's say i'm running bh/sent-drones/cyke though.

speaking of which, short+sent rocket punch short column super combos if you column early.

dirrrrrrty.

anybody else know how to make mags with bh behind him dirty? i think i remember hearing/seeing mags do some variation of 5 fierce, but calls bh and gets bh column to combo as an unrollable OTG at some point. or set up an unmashable tempest.

I'm not a mags player I just know how to tri jump over most assists and keep the pressure on til i land 5 fierce into resets back into 5 fierce.

Funny you mentioned that. All of that is in the BH tutorial I'm working on concerning the use of BH-B for different characters. if you use a messenger, pm me your SN and I'll help you out with that stuff.

As for the team you're saying you'll use. I find that you'll want to stay at normal jump height to pressure strider with j.lks and assists. Done properly, you're tail will stop doom-B and that in conjunction with the drones makes the other player have to play more defensive as they won't want to try to punish your jump ins for fear of the 20+ points of health they'll lose if they get hit by the drones. Also, use the j.FP demons of fill the gaps when you're not close enough to pressure with the lks b/c they'll stop a doom b4 he even gets started. Once they're in the corner, it's all about counter calling assist and punish.

All that said, in the case of this team, it would probably be easier to just put sent against strider/doom and use the c.FP + BH-B to fly unfly strings to take him out of his play. but bleh since this is a BH thread =P

[joe doe]

sup everyone!!! well today i was at CF and i played justin wong for a bit. Which is rare since the guy doesn't play much casual anymore. But i got to try out a couple of blackheart teams on him. Not surprising the team with the best prospect of beating him is team watts.

Although i've paired balckheart with differnt characters, the only competitive game for blackheart seems to be team watts. So i am going to drop blackheart for a little bit until i get my game up with other characters and try him again. I mean i have an OK sentinel, a crappy storm, OK cable and a crappy ironman. But if i improve these characters i bet that i can have a much better game with blackheart.

[Hollow]

That's what I have done in recent months.I started working with IM/Sent/Cyke to clear my head. I got a lot better and more calm with my Blackheart gameplay when I went back to him.

[Khiempossible]

my best learning experience with blackheart was playing BH/Cable/cyke on a machine with no short button for 2 weeks.

[StiltMan]

Already knew about short/short/RP/inferno/HOD, this is most of the point of using Sent-A instead of Sent-Y with Sent/Cable/BH. Comboing off of Cable-B is a little bit inconsistent... it can be done but if you don't hit it early and if you're not in the corner then the psimitar will just lift the guy out of the inferno column, and your only hope of doing much more damage is if the last hit unblockables when they come down. But yeah, short/short/RP can combo into either inferno/HOD or standing JD. Standing JD is not a bad way to get retaliation-safe hurt on Cable.

My way of dealing with Strider/Doom is to keep BH on the move and kind of go old school, make sure that there's plenty of things in Strider's way. Control the ground with Sentinel's drones and BH's demons, and make Strider react to you instead of you reacting to him. If you can force Strider to try to work to keep up with you, then there's more chances for him to screw up. He can't do a whole lot of chip damage to you from a distance. Also not a bad matchup for having Cyclops instead of Commando; if I've got a known Strider player I'm not unlikely to go with Sent/BH/Cyclops just to have the maximum number of things to get in his way and break his control. If you've got BH/Sent/Commando, BH pretty much has to take the whole duty against Strider and pray.