How to tell if your Blackheart sucks...

[StiltMan]

This thread might get mistaken for a troll, but I think that in discussing what BH is really capable of any more, there are so many bad habits that BHs around the country have gotten into that I would tend to say that most of them suck. So here's a simple litmus test to determine whether or not your BH sucks.

1. Do you think sj. rh and inferno/HOD are BH's two main moves? (If you answer "yes" in whole or in part, your BH sucks.)

2. Are you aware that BH's tail represents one of the quickest range pokes in the game? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks.)

3. Do most characters usually survive your first solid hit with BH? (If you answer "yes", then your BH probably sucks... I know of at least two team schemes where BH should be killing people on the first solid hit, with only a very few exceptions. BH/Storm is arguably an exception that can get you out of jail here.)

4. Do you super jump to throw random demons a lot? (If you answer "yes", your BH sucks. The only matchup where this is really a good idea is against another BH.)

5. Do you have a serious application for air judgment day against top tier chars? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks.)

6. Do you play BH on a team where he's got a serious DHC to work with? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks unless it's because the team has Cable on it, in which case you get a "get out of jail free" card unless you answered "yes" to question 3.)

7. Does your BH get rushed down for giggles? (If you answer "yes", your BH sucks.)

8. Do you know at least two or three different ways to do serious damage to Cable, without getting shot in retaliation? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks.)

Any questions?

[KING]

Originally posted by StiltMan
Any questions?

yeah, HOW do I get to the point where I DO NOT suck w/ BH??? :)

tips are appreciated, since i'm a BH newb. (only tried to start playing him this weekend. :o)

[Higher-Jin]

instead of telling us how we suck tell us how to do those things

[Storming Flower]

vids?

[NUT PO]

Could you tell us how to be better BH player? Cause I obivously failed the test:confused:

[StiltMan]

Okay, a few tips on how to avoid the suckage side of the answers to the above questions...

1. My main moves I use with BH are j. fierce (usually supplemented with Sent-Y), sj. jab, and his short both in the air and standing and crouching on the ground. The most common times I use sj. rh at all is after a sj. jab/strong counterattacking a rush char going over the top, or if I know the opposing char is in some way commited to staying below me (which actually is a superset of the first case). I only use inferno/HOD if I know it's going to hit or occasionally in endgame situations to chip. I never use it as a general chipping weapon unless I've got Doom behind BH and I've got an opponent pinned between the rocks and the corner wall.

2. Just so you know... BH's st. short (the tail) reaches just a little shy of half the screen away. Probably right around 40-45%. His cr. short is not much shorter. His air short is a little less reaching than his air jab, so the main reason I'll use the short is if I've got an opponent below me. But either way, BH's tail has sick, sick range for the amount of speed it has, better than basically any quick poke this side of Dhalsim and with a lot more damage potential from combos. You can literally block a launcher from most chars and retaliate with pokes into your AAA of choice into inferno/HOD, infinite, and/or DHC.

3. If you are playing BH/Cable/Cyclops, anything that leads to a Cyclops hit (whether it's juggling someone who's jumped into demons, retaliating for a poke, them running into Cyclops cold, or whatever) should lead to an infinite which you then finish off by tagging in Cable on the bouncing character, and from there you shoot them the rest of the way to death. If you are playing BH/Sentinel/Commando, there are numerous ways to DHC HOD (with or without inferno) into HSF, most of which will be fatal in most practical cases. If you've got BH/Storm/something and set up an inferno/HOD there, you can DHC to hail as well... this won't kill anybody without a significant amount of extra damage additionally inflicted before or after it, but it's useful enough and simpler to execute than DHCs to HSF or infinites into Cable tags, so it can be forgiven.

4. Don't do this unless you know your opponent can't either go under you or up with you or whatever. I don't even super jump for offense at all except on Sentinel or Cable, and even then I'm doing it in cases where I know they'll have a reason not to go up with me. About the only char I'll do any kind of half-random sj. rh on is another BH.

5. If you get over the top of either Cable or Sentinel doing their respective horizontal supers, probably on one of your assists, air judgment day is a lot more useful than it looks like. It's also very easy to DHC into hail, HSF, or whatever.

6. Serious DHCs here can be anything from BH/Sent-A inferno/HOD DHC plasma storm (Sentinel will have enough time to both assist and DHC, BH/IM-or-Cyclops/Sentinel inferno/HOD DHC proton cannon/MOB DHC HSF (either one of which works... pretty easy to do), BH/Storm/Sentinel st. rh/drones/HOD DHC hail (credit to Viscant for this one), BH/Sent with any third char st. rh/drones/HOD DHC HSF (variant on Viscant's combo, and yeah, the HSF does work if you time it so that Sentinel has enough time to get out on the assist and then come back in on the DHC) or whatever. If you can do the infinite into Cable tag off of BH/Cyclops (which fills a non-DHC condition of question 3) you needn't worry about this question.... BH still can kill and the means are different than a DHC. I don't really care for BH/Cable/Cyclops myself because I think BH has more use for a projectile assist than he does for Cable behind him for most matchups. It might help him against an opposing Cable some, but I think stuff like drones or rocks helps him against the rush more than a counter-AHVB will help him against another Cable.

7. With j. fierce, drones, and Commando around, BH should rarely, if ever, worry about getting rushed. With Cyclops instead of drones and Commando it's potentially hard to rush him down but I'd still prefer having Sentinel back there, especially since BH/Cable/Cyclops suffers the same snapback worries as Team Scrub does against Magneto, whereas BH/Sent/Commando doesn't. (read: free DHC) Getting your assist char snapped in with no safe way to get out so that he gets rushed down is just as bad as getting your BH rushed down for purposes of this question.

8. Pick a DHC from the list in question #6, or the infinite into Cable tag into blow them the hell away... or don't tag Cable and just do the infinite, maybe reset it. If you don't want to DHC, take an assist that hits a char up to about chest level on BH and do judgment day. No inferno. I know for a fact that Sent-A sets this up fine. It's possible that Psylocke might. st. rh into Sent-Y into judgment day will also work without needing a DHC. There's also hitting into Cyclops and do a single sj. rh as though you were going to start the infinite, but instead airdash, land next to where Cable is bouncing by your head, and do inferno/armageddon. The non-DHC, non-infinite-into-tag combos all do about 50% damage anywhere on the screen (except for the st. rh/drones/JD one, which is more like 60-70%), and all of them are perfectly Cable-safe to hit people with.

There are a few other trade secrets here that I'm keeping close to the vest, but even this much is still a lot more BH knowledge than most people know. There are a lot more DHC possibilities out there (I haven't even given out the one that I use most often myself) and a few other things BH can do, some of which I know and I'm keeping secret and a number that I may not even have discovered yet myself.

For purposes of video, Alex Valle's BH remains the one that's been put on commonly available video that gives the best idea of how to play him on a positional level. Study that, and start from there. Don't stop your tinkering with just that, though, because if you look at the videos, even his BH was on the wrong end of a number of the "suck" questions I'm posing here. Nothing his BH did on a reproducible basis ever came anywhere near 100% damage, he didn't have a reliable way of doing more than about 25% damage to Cable without getting shot unless he was in the corner, he had no reliable DHCs, and he threw a few too many sj. rhs for my tastes these days as well. My understanding is that he threw fewer sj. rhs and used BH's pokes more post-B5, but I don't know that he ever fixed any of the other issues. However, just on pure sound positioning, I still have to put his BH on the pedestal as the starting point you should strive for.

Don't feel bad if you blew chunks on the test. It's my personal opinion that BH is considered so bad these days because nobody really knows any of this stuff... i.e. the BHs people are judging by are on the wrong side of most or all of these litmus test questions.

[Thienhavodich]

i got some right but, in battle when i'm gettin rushed down or something i tend to make some of these mistakes more than i know.Doing random sj, fp demon or hk demons. Which i have greatly decreased but.

I think its a great idea to put my aim on here that way i can share some vids of my recent tournies and u can make a list of my mistakes. My friend plays a really good Bh. but being a teacher he is not the greatest. And i recently improved alot by going to this thread. But my Aim is aDeoSaoBeoVay

If u got any bh vids or even simple tips i'll be more than happy to take it.

[_blitz]

a lot of rushdown people can stand to not be doing something nowadays so becareful, more so then you use to be. first i would advise that you use capcom for a while with bh if you arent already, cause face it, he is an anti rushdown god as a helper and hands down, bhs best assist. cykes doesnt work too bad though, but doesnt set up as easy for infernoxxhod and you can give bh the ability to not only counter assist with ease, but put up a nice wall to block /hide behind when they are above you. when fighting mags i tend not to super jump a whole hell of a lot. i use fp demons like crazy and tails more then anything.

[Dirty]

I severly encourage taking up Stilts advice on the matter. This man is the only one I consider decond to in Blackheart. I watched him play Blackheart when I first started playing, and he has shown me alot just by watching, and him teaching my person to person. This guy know's what he is talking about and still have yet to play him BlackHeart vs. BlackHeart.

Heh, in any case, definatly listen to what he has got to say, cause I agree 100% with what his veiws are.






Good Shit Eric!!!!

-Dizznurty:cool:

[Deathfist]

_Blitz:Cyclops sets up everything Capcom does and also sets up the infinite. You can set up the infinite with Capcom too, but it's extremely difficult [almost impractical...].

Stiltman knows his shit. I can tell. This is probably the best advice I've seen on how to operate BH on the net from anyone ever.

Here's how I scored.

I got questions 3 and 5 wrong, and those were only on a technicality.

3 Do most characters usually survive your first hit?

Yes. This is mainly a mercy and a time of the hit thing. I usually land the clean hit so early in the match that tagging in Cable or heavy DHCs aren't a practical option for me that hit. BH-Cyc can destroy half health off a Cyc hit into infinite into an AC. After that, there are harassment techniques that can put the victim at risk of immediately going back into the infinite. NOW I have enough meter for the kill DHC and tag in Cable combos to be practical.

5 Did you have a use for the air JD vs Top tier?

No. Actually I did have potential uses for it, but only on a sub-conscious level. You just brought it to a conscious level for me. Thanks Stilt.
In most of those situations where the JD was usable for me, I could just as easily have infinited their ass then tagged in Cable, Mags, or if I could use him better, Ironman. That character dies bypassing my need for the JD somewhat, but not completely. I'd have to JD someone like Sentinel. Further exploration is warranted.

Okay. Stilt, please PM me with the secrets you held out on in the litmus test answers. I'll keep them secret.

[Thienhavodich]

yeah i been trying to find a better way of using air jd. If only thier was a easy air combo into it huh? lolz. Oh i'm working on a Bh vid which might not consist of me playing but Austin, tx is bh country even lil kids know to fear bh. So lets see how i do with this vid. If it turns out to be a bad combo vid, or bh vid just sit back and enjoy the music. :p

[Dasrik]

Seriously, even though I didn't quite pass the litmus test, I'm still the only competitive dedicated Blackheart player left in SoCal since Jaminis retired. I'm going to just examine this list for the moment.

1. Superjump roundhouse is an important BH move, because it's his primary way to cover assists. If you use BH/Guile, it's the ONLY way to cover that assist. The important thing isn't so much attacking with the demons as in giving the opponent something additional to maneuver around, making getting underneath BH impractical. As for inferno xx HOD, you shouldn't deny its power to keep people from superjumping too much, as well as to throw some occasional chipping into the match to keep it balanced. Jump fierce and his light attacks are very important moves too.

2. Of course. In the air, though, jump jab is usually more useful than jump short. A lot of launchers beat jump short anyway, especially from a superjump (BH doesn't have much of a way to capitalize on landing a superjump short on a grounded opponent).

3. OK, BH/Cable/Cyclops I can understand, except you usually land Cyclops off of defensive hits and unless you want to use meter to get damage right away, you can't usually make the most of them because blockstun will keep you from getting over them in time to do the infinite. BH/Sent I'm still not quite seeing; Storm/Sent lands 70 points of damage before Sentinel DHCs at most, so how does 44 points before Sent lead to death?

4. If you're random at all you probably suck. Everyone thinks Soo's Magneto is random, but careful observation shows that to be a Big Lie (tm). Random people lose, period.

5. Air judgement on whiffed HSF or AHVBs.

6. Good DHCs are a fundamental part of any good team.

7. Blackheart is the hardest character to rush in the game. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not fighting good Blackhearts. Between demons for long distance and tails of Jesus/chops up close, he's a pain in the ass. Now if you fuck up and get HIT, it's bootstrap time.

8. If I don't have Cyclops, A-Magneto or A-Sent, not practically. BH/Sent DHC works for damage, though.

[OmegaRyuji]

Hmm, I failed 3 and 5 too. Seems to be a common problem (At least I know my Blackheart doesn't suck as much as I thought now :) ).

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by StiltMan
This thread might get mistaken for a troll, but I think that in discussing what BH is really capable of any more, there are so many bad habits that BHs around the country have gotten into that I would tend to say that most of them suck. So here's a simple litmus test to determine whether or not your BH sucks.

1. Do you think sj. rh and inferno/HOD are BH's two main moves? (If you answer "yes" in whole or in part, your BH sucks.)

2. Are you aware that BH's tail represents one of the quickest range pokes in the game? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks.)

3. Do most characters usually survive your first solid hit with BH? (If you answer "yes", then your BH probably sucks... I know of at least two team schemes where BH should be killing people on the first solid hit, with only a very few exceptions. BH/Storm is arguably an exception that can get you out of jail here.)

4. Do you super jump to throw random demons a lot? (If you answer "yes", your BH sucks. The only matchup where this is really a good idea is against another BH.)

5. Do you have a serious application for air judgment day against top tier chars? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks.)

6. Do you play BH on a team where he's got a serious DHC to work with? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks unless it's because the team has Cable on it, in which case you get a "get out of jail free" card unless you answered "yes" to question 3.)

7. Does your BH get rushed down for giggles? (If you answer "yes", your BH sucks.)

8. Do you know at least two or three different ways to do serious damage to Cable, without getting shot in retaliation? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks.)

Any questions?

I'm happy to say my BH doesn't suck :cool: BTW you left out a few test:

9. Do you know GB using assists or just blackheart? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks.)

10. Can you connect the infinite from a J.FP demons? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks.)

11. Do you know at least two extremely good uses for BH's ground dash? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks)

12. Can you connect the infinite from ANY RH demon that connects on an opponent who is in the air? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks.)

[BlackHeartKing]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by StiltMan
[B]Okay, a few tips on how to avoid the suckage side of the answers to the above questions...

3. If you are playing BH/Cable/Cyclops, anything that leads to a Cyclops hit (whether it's juggling someone who's jumped into demons, retaliating for a poke, them running into Cyclops cold, or whatever) should lead to an infinite which you then finish off by tagging in Cable on the bouncing character, and from there you shoot them the rest of the way to death. If you are playing BH/Sentinel/Commando, there are numerous ways to DHC HOD (with or without inferno) into HSF, most of which will be fatal in most practical cases. If you've got BH/Storm/something and set up an inferno/HOD there, you can DHC to hail as well... this won't kill anybody without a significant amount of extra damage additionally inflicted before or after it, but it's useful enough and simpler to execute than DHCs to HSF or infinites into Cable tags, so it can be forgiven.


I like what you said here but I've found that BH's standing JD is much better for DHCing into HSF or Hailstorm. It does more damage and you can easily keep the combo going with either Sentinel (ofcourse that's easy) OR storm b/c you can time this and set the opponent up for an otg into a cross up or whatever you wishes desire.

[BlackHeartKing]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dirty

Heh, in any case, definatly listen to what he has got to say, cause I agree 100% with what his veiws are.

I have to agree 100% with you on this comment. It's about time that I've found someone representin BH the right way. No offense to the so-so players out there. Keep practicing. I couldn't have said what he said any better myself.

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by _blitz
a lot of rushdown people can stand to not be doing something nowadays so becareful, more so then you use to be. first i would advise that you use capcom for a while with bh if you arent already, cause face it, he is an anti rushdown god as a helper and hands down, bhs best assist. cykes doesnt work too bad though, but doesnt set up as easy for infernoxxhod and you can give bh the ability to not only counter assist with ease, but put up a nice wall to block /hide behind when they are above you. when fighting mags i tend not to super jump a whole hell of a lot. i use fp demons like crazy and tails more then anything.

Commando is indeed a good assist but I advise everyone who likes BH to just work on their defense and use cyclops. BH is so much more dangerous with him b/c any attack that connect should equal a dead character or at least 75% damage. And every dead character, would then lead up to a guard break and another dead character or at least 75% damage. Also if you're worried about connecting inferno/HoD from an assist, noone beats the cyclops assist. If timed right you connect connect multiple infernos b4 even doing the HoD. I tend to connect 6 from a cyclops assist b4 I get bored and cancel and/or go for the infinite.

[Deathfist]

Originally posted by BlackHeartKing


I'm happy to say my BH doesn't suck :cool: BTW you left out a few test:

9. Do you know GB using assists or just blackheart? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks.)

10. Can you connect the infinite from a J.FP demons? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks.)

11. Do you know at least two extremely good uses for BH's ground dash? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks)

12. Can you connect the infinite from ANY RH demon that connects on an opponent who is in the air? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks.)

Okay on this end I did worse.

9-10 Passed narrowly. 11 narrow fail. I only had uses on a subconscious level. 12 Stalemate. If I use the flying hk, I pass but if you actually meant standing hk I failed.

The owness is on you now.

Please post the answers to ALL the litmus tests. That way we can fix whatever problems we have in our arsenals [if any] with our BH use.

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by Deathfist


Okay on this end I did worse.

9-10 Passed narrowly. 11 narrow fail. I only had uses on a subconscious level. 12 Stalemate. If I use the flying hk, I pass but if you actually meant standing hk I failed.

The owness is on you now.

Please post the answers to ALL the litmus tests. That way we can fix whatever problems we have in our arsenals [if any] with our BH use.

Actually I WAS talking about connecting the FLYING RH into the infinite in 12. But just let it be know that you can even connect the standing RH into the infinite as well. There's two ways of doing it (that I know of). One way I can do all the time and the other was first done completely on accident and is now a work in progress to do it all the time.
As for 12 I'll give you just a couple of the many uses. For all those who have trouble with Cable users. Just dash whenever they super jump or try to play cheap and fire their gun while calling out any assist. you'll go under EVERYTHING that they're sending out and get to punish them before they can recover. For the SJing cable I just dash and then SJ throw (similar to how combofiend does it) and for the repeated gun shot cable users. Just dash and press d.lk, d.lk w/ assist (hopefully cyclops), start infinite. That'll teach that loser :lol:

[BlackHeartKing]

I was just curious as to how many BH users out there use his regular jump infinite. I'm the only one that I've seen use it. But it's far better than the SJ version and I can't see myself being the only one that's doing it.

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by Thienhavodich
yeah i been trying to find a better way of using air jd. If only thier was a easy air combo into it huh? lolz. Oh i'm working on a Bh vid which might not consist of me playing but Austin, tx is bh country even lil kids know to fear bh. So lets see how i do with this vid. If it turns out to be a bad combo vid, or bh vid just sit back and enjoy the music. :p

Um there is an easy way of comboing the JD. You simply launch them, sj.FP, quickly cancel into the JD. It connects if timed right and if you have storm next you can DHC into hailstorm. Also note how EASY it is to launch them b4 they even hit the ground to continue the beating.

[StiltMan]

To put it bluntly, I don't think any of these are really litmus tests for a decent BH as opposed to one that sucks. In fact, all of them strike as primarily "style points" things that wouldn't be terribly useful at a high level of play. This is rather contrasting to my 8 maxims, which are relatively sound and important things a BH can and should be doing at a tournament level these days, and aren't. But, here goes...

9. With BH by himself, you can throw fierce dark thunder into HOD and, in theory, it option selects -- if they block it, it guard breaks, and if they don't, it combos. You could also potentially throw an inferno/HOD as well as a guard break. Neither is particularly Cable-safe, and the dark thunder one is extremely spacing-peculiar. With an assist, I would imagine either a launcher or a j. jab into assist could guard break, but I don't know what you could get off of it that would do much damage -- he can't get back to the ground after the jab into assist in time to do much with most assists that are decent, and if you launch and then throw something like, say, Commando, the two of them will kick people up so high that about all you could do is pray you got an Armageddon off or get to them in the air fast enough to air combo them. Either way, it wouldn't do much damage and isn't terribly practical.

10. I theoretically could, but I'm not too upset about accusations that my BH "sucks" because of it. Why not? Because the main practical situation where sj. fierce is effective is to leave it sitting out over your head while you're dropping to the ground, so that people going over the top can't follow you down and attack. (Those of you who think Sentinel just needs to wait until BH lands to own him... think again. This is pretty easy to hit inferno/HOD off of whether the sj. fp hits or not... either stop flying or die.) However, for obvious reasons, that's not real conducive to starting an infinite. Definitely not much of a "suckage" test.

11. Most of the half practical uses I could think of for it, I don't run into situations where I need it. I'm sure as hell not going to do it on Magneto or Storm. I could see using it to go under a Sentinel who throws fierce/drones without doing anything to keep you locked down between, but super jumping over it often gets you a bit of damage, whereas all the dash gets you is closer and not in time to do anything. I've seen it used to go under Doom's photon charges but these days I would prefer to normal jump and get them in Commando reach quickly; if you don't have Commando I guess you'd be stuck having to ground dash and hope for the best. Going under Cable's gunfire usually gets you hit by Commando, in my experience, so I'll leave that one out as an answer; the others aren't good enough that BH can't do it another way better.

12. I'll do you one better... if I hit you air-to-air with rh. demons, I'll DHC you. If you're not Sentinel, you're probably going to die outright; if you are, you're just going to be hurt pretty damn bad. Either way, my Sentinel's going to be on point with BH and Commando assists behind him (only his two favorite assists in the entire game) and in possession of what will almost certainly be a pretty damn solid lead. I like that situation better than what an infinite's going to get me even if they don't bounce just a little wrong somewhere.

In general, I'm capable of doing some of these things but I don't consider any of them to be particularly crucial to solid BH play. In two of the cases, you're being specific enough in what you're calling for BH to do that you're not allowing for him doing something else that's even more effective than your prescription, and in the other two cases you're not really calling for anything that's terribly practical. In short, I don't do any of these in actual tournament matches and I don't feel the slightest bit inadequate for any of them.

I really don't care for Cyclops over Commando as the AAA of choice, either. Every practical situation where you can get an infinite with or without Cyclops, you can get a DHC with Commando. Commando keeps Sentinels zoned away from over your head when you don't have the space to do a sj. fp, and keeps them far enough out that throwing out an inferno/HOD will give them a rather unhappy reminder of the dangers of flying. Probably leads to a DHC there, too, since Sentinel drops like such a brick that following up with a HSF is pretty easy. And if you want much of a shot of zoning off Cable, you pretty much need Commando. I don't terribly hate BH/Cable/Cyclops as a team, but when I'm using this team I usually go with Cable/BH/Commando, in that order. I might try toying with Cyclops again experimentally, but I don't figure I'm going to regain a great deal of love for him on BH's behalf.

Simple pros of Cyclops over Commando: can go through stuff like Tron and Doom-B, has a bit more horizontal reach, more block stun. Cons: Sentinel-Y goes through Tron and Doom-B also and has more horizontal reach than Cyclops and interferes for far longer, and Commando has more practical vertical reach and better ability to punish assists. Oh yeah, and even if you have Sentinel behind you, many of the DHCs that work with BH/Sent/Commando don't work with BH/Sent/Cyclops. It's got a few other ones that do work, but they're either rollable or they require Cyclops to be in the middle. Sent-Y and Cyclops are kind of redundant in their horizontal-control functions, too... plus Sentinel would much rather have Commando.

That's about all I've got to say for now.

EDIT: Not quite. Comboing into ground JD also isn't a very good DHC setup to anything but Storm, IMO... for Sentinel the stream of demons is random enough that it often kicks them up just high enough to miss the first set of drones and drop before the second one gets there. That... sucks.

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by BlackHeartKing
9. Do you know GB using assists or just blackheart? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks.)Blackheart doesn't have a real consistent guard break. Fierce Dark Thunder xx HOD only works on practice dummies. I've gotten jump fierce, HOD to guardbreak randomly, but you have to time it so all three demons are blocked before they get to the floor. There's the standby jump jab, land and launch, which is of course defused by just taking the hit.

10. Can you connect the infinite from a J.FP demons? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks.) The better question is, WHY connect your infinite from J.FP demons? Actually, why infinite at all?

11. Do you know at least two extremely good uses for BH's ground dash? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks)Corner escape and cross-ups. Whee.

12. Can you connect the infinite from ANY RH demon that connects on an opponent who is in the air? (If you answer "no", your BH sucks.) Is the infinite the focus of your play? If the answer to this question is "Yes", you probably have a shitty Blackheart.

Um there is an easy way of comboing the JD. You simply launch them, sj.FP, quickly cancel into the JD. It connects if timed right and if you have storm next you can DHC into hailstorm. Also note how EASY it is to launch them b4 they even hit the ground to continue the beating.I came up with this combo. It's not very consistent because of the random nature of Judgement Day.

[StiltMan]

I can't say that I disagree with a whole lot of anything Dasrik said there. IMO, BH should stay away from the infinite by and large. If you hit an air-to-air rh, you're better off comboing it into something else that's going to do much more damage for a lot less effort than you are bothering with the infinite, IMO. About the only way the infinite's going to get you very far is, again, if you've got Cable behind you.

Go back to my original third question: do your opponents usually survive your first solid hit with BH? If you're building your team around infinites and BH/Storm, you're going to be answering "yes" to this question. BH/Storm sort of gets you out of jail, but from the stuff you've been posting I'm suspecting strongly that you're a little too hung up on style points and big-number combos and not paying enough attention to sound play.

My best, most consistent, most easily applied (to most chars) DHC with BH will get you about 14-17 hits depending on how the HSF bounces. I'm going to be doing around 130 points of damage with that. The infinite, even if you manage not to screw it up, isn't going to get you more than about 60-70. DHC'ing with JD makes for a fair number of style points, but unless I'm doing an air JD on a whiffed AHVB or HSF it's not usually that practical. There are no useful combos that involve BH actually launching someone as part of it where you can't do a lot more damage for a lot less trouble and randomness some other way.

I suspect mightily that BHKing is kind of posing here.

[Magnetic Hail]

I always thought Blackeart sucked until I played a VERY GOOD Blackheart player today. I take back anything bad I might've said about him,I apologize to the blackheart players, he's more annoying then cable -_-.

[BlackHeartKing]

Okay I'd have to say that I'm luaghing my ass of after hearing your replies. First off I have to ask exactly how you're cancelling into HSF if you can keep the combo going after it's over b/c I have no trouble whatso ever doing it. As for your comments on the GB's with blackheart, I was talking about GB's that put the opponent into the infinite. and I know one using BH with a cyclops OR commando assist that you can't get out of. It doesn't matter if you push block, get hit, or try to attack on your way in. Now if you think that I'm one of those people who relies on the infinite as a key to my game you're fucking stupid. I merely speak the way I do about it b/c if you can't even do the things I said about the infinite you probably aren't good enough to do anything with him. It's all about timing and reading your opponent. And just for the record if you think I let someone live after connecting anything that goes into the infinite you're fucking crazy. EVEN with a BH/storm team the person is dead. And if you think that connecting the JD from a sj after a luacher than I say you need to just worrk on your timing b/c I do it without any trouble whatsoever. And I almost always do that version if I have storm next b/c that's the best way to cancel into her hailstorm b/c you can easily luanch them b4 they can even hit the ground continuing the combo using cross-ups or w/e else you can think of even thought it usually isn't necessary to even go that far to kill them. ALSO if you do the infinite that I do you can easily tag in any character you want at anytime during it to set them up for the big damage/killer combos (this means sent). One last thing if you think I'm posing I'm gonna have to say I feel sorry for ya b/c you know as well as I do (or at least you should if you know BH, like I thought you did) that everything I just said is true. And if you think I'm posing I can have my friend (who's played against the best of the best, in the west, like combofiend, David lee, Soo and lil harry potter and know's what a good player is) post here and tell you that my BH ain't no bitch. He'll tell you that everything I said here is true b/c I've serve him up using these methods worse than the ass whoopings that the top tournament players have given him.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Originally posted by BlackHeartKing
I can have my friend (who's played against the best of the best, in the west, like combofiend, David lee, Soo and lil harry potter and know's what a good player is) post here and tell you that my BH ain't no bitch. He'll tell you that everything I said here is true b/c I've serve him up using these methods worse than the ass whoopings that the top tournament players have given him. i just come in here and read every once in awhile when im bored and i saw this and had to ask...are you saying ur better than them? :confused: :rolleyes:

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by BlackHeartKing
As for your comments on the GB's with blackheart, I was talking about GB's that put the opponent into the infinite. and I know one using BH with a cyclops OR commando assist that you can't get out of. It doesn't matter if you push block, get hit, or try to attack on your way in.It's very possible to guardbreak with those assists. Although timing's a bitch, it works, I guess.

Now if you think that I'm one of those people who relies on the infinite as a key to my game you're fucking stupid. I merely speak the way I do about it b/c if you can't even do the things I said about the infinite you probably aren't good enough to do anything with him.*shrugs*... I can do stuff with the infinite. I just don't because I think it sucks.

And if you think that connecting the JD from a sj after a luacher than I say you need to just worrk on your timing b/c I do it without any trouble whatsoever.Okay, if I ever watch you play I want to see you do it 5 times out of 5.

ALSO if you do the infinite that I do you can easily tag in any character you want at anytime during it to set them up for the big damage/killer combos (this means sent).If you tag in Sentinel, your "killer combo" is going to do one pixel of damage per hit, because rh demon combos don't reset until the opponent touches the ground.

And if you think I'm posing I can have my friend (who's played against the best of the best, in the west, like combofiend, David lee, Soo and lil harry potter and know's what a good player is) post here and tell you that my BH ain't no bitch. He'll tell you that everything I said here is true b/c I've serve him up using these methods worse than the ass whoopings that the top tournament players have given him. Ask those players about my Blackheart, then.

[StiltMan]

Originally posted by BlackHeartKing
Okay I'd have to say that I'm luaghing my ass of after hearing your replies. First off I have to ask exactly how you're cancelling into HSF if you can keep the combo going after it's over b/c I have no trouble whatso ever doing it.

I'm not sure what you're asking here, whether it's about the specifics of the DHCs to HSF I'm using (and if so, which one... I have about four or five of them that work), whether I'm comboing other stuff after HSF, or what. I'm not real concerned with whether you have trouble doing something or another. The point of this thread is to illustrate ways to play BH that are being overlooked by most BH players, on a tactical level. I'm not here to try to rack up style points. I have such a reputation for being an un-flashy player that the phrase "StiltMan MSP", in and of itself, tends to provoke laughter.

As for your comments on the GB's with blackheart, I was talking about GB's that put the opponent into the infinite. and I know one using BH with a cyclops OR commando assist that you can't get out of. It doesn't matter if you push block, get hit, or try to attack on your way in.

Then explain it in exact detail in a way that can be independently verified. Because, quite frankly, I'll believe this when I see it and not before. It would be nice to know it, if it really exists. Hell, I'd be interested in most anything with Commando that's going to lead to an infinite anywhere other than right next to the corner that works under practical circumstances.

Now if you think that I'm one of those people who relies on the infinite as a key to my game you're fucking stupid. I merely speak the way I do about it b/c if you can't even do the things I said about the infinite you probably aren't good enough to do anything with him.

Uh.... yeah. :confused:

I finished in the top 25 at Evolution last year with Sent-A/Cable/BH and Cable/BH/Commando as my teams. I fairly regularly finish in the top 5 in Seattle's biggest tournaments, using BH teams more often than not. In the last one I went to, I used BH/Sent/Commando, and my BH stared down no less a Magneto than Rodolfo's cold, even though my most lethal BH stuff that I've come up with was little better than experimental at the time. I've won two other tournaments around the NW outright with that same team in the last month and a half.

I am utterly unaware of any tournament credentials on your part at all, much less anything on this kind of level. I'm not outright saying that you suck, I'm merely saying that I'm hearing a lot of stuff that sounds more like effort to score style points than it does sound tournament tactics.

It's all about timing and reading your opponent. And just for the record if you think I let someone live after connecting anything that goes into the infinite you're fucking crazy. EVEN with a BH/storm team the person is dead.

Okay... I can envision that a full blown infinite into whatever super DHC hail will probably kill someone more often than not. OTOH, the team involved is going to be BH/Storm/Cyclops. The DHCs and the point chars involved have some merits, but the assist scheme is fugly. Storm and BH only have limited use for one another's assists, plus there's the issue of BH/Clops vs. BH/Commando... I tend to much prefer Commando, myself.


And if you think that connecting the JD from a sj after a luacher than I say you need to just worrk on your timing b/c I do it without any trouble whatsoever. And I almost always do that version if I have storm next b/c that's the best way to cancel into her hailstorm b/c you can easily luanch them b4 they can even hit the ground continuing the combo using cross-ups or w/e else you can think of even thought it usually isn't necessary to even go that far to kill them.

I'd probably go for Cyclops into a sj. rh into inferno/armageddon DHC hail myself.

ALSO if you do the infinite that I do you can easily tag in any character you want at anytime during it to set them up for the big damage/killer combos (this means sent).

Or Cable... which will be more damaging after the infinite has scaled stuff down. For Sentinel it'd be better to just do the DHC early.

One last thing if you think I'm posing I'm gonna have to say I feel sorry for ya b/c you know as well as I do (or at least you should if you know BH, like I thought you did) that everything I just said is true. And if you think I'm posing I can have my friend (who's played against the best of the best, in the west, like combofiend, David lee, Soo and lil harry potter and know's what a good player is) post here and tell you that my BH ain't no bitch. He'll tell you that everything I said here is true b/c I've serve him up using these methods worse than the ass whoopings that the top tournament players have given him.

Well, once again, it bears asking... who are you and what the hell are your actual tournament credentials, if any? The only California BHs I've much heard of are Viscant in his BH/Storm/Sentinel experiments, a bit of JoeZaza (who also took up BH/Storm/Sentinel at my suggestion for a while), Dasrik, and Jaminis. If you're such a hot BH, point me at a tournament where you've done anything at all to back up all this talk.

[b00sdr1v0rz]

OK, I failed all those tests. I'm a big mvc2 scrub, so just give me the basics with blackheart? What should I be going for, infinites, hypercombos/DHCS, chip damage, runaway? SJ demons, airdash, demons with assists is about all I do right now.

[BlackHeartKing]

sigh, you guys make too many assumptions. Okay first off I NEVER said I was better than any of the tournament players mention above. But I'll tell you this, if you are thinking that a player is better than another simply b/c he does tournament you have no common sense. there are people out there that are increbibly skilled in different sports and games that noone ever finds out about them b/c they can't showcase there talents. Unfortunately I am too busy to participate in tournaments which tend to be on the weekends b/c I do school, work, and church full time. This is the reason why I didn't make it to the evo tournament. I was at church all day sunday and almost all day saturday. Now I'm going to once again state that I'm not saying that I'm better than ANYBODY b/c I know someone who doesn't understand the unique language of english will think otherwise.

I'm going to try and make it to one of these Huntington Park tournaments that they're starting to throw every week and then you'll get to see how I do since that's your only method of judging a player. I seriously doubt I'll find the time to though b/c they have them on saturdays. Plus the MTA drivers are on stirke. BTW who said that I continue the infinite all the way to the limit of the hits you can get out. I merely do it long enough to set them up for switches and DHCs (which tends to be 10 hits). from here if we're talking about sentinel (whom I rarely bother with) I'd just switch mid combo linking a HSF into his luancher or back into blackheart, where at this point the hit damage is at 1 anyway. And proceed from there. As for my GB that's unavoidable as long as I'm doing it right, you'll just have to see or here about it from someone, it's basically only applicable after killing an opponent to give you the jump on the next character.

Another thing, you said you think I'm all style? I'll tell you right now I'm into the style points but I'm all about winning and wouldn't jeopardize the win for an ooohhh or an aaahh. Besides, Combofiend has got style but you don't see people saying that that's all he is, do you. Plus he's always one of the top rankers. Actually I think there is a hugh gap between the really good players and the so-so players and I don't think it's saying much to get 5th in a random tournament or even 25 an the evo tournament. That just means you ranked under the well known pros and above the so-so players. I mean come on! I give no credibility to a person just b/c they compete in tournaments. I can say I got 3rd in a tournament, but the reality is that there was only two big names players like qwuan and rodolfo and the rest were scrubs. That's no different than bragging about getting third in a three man tournament as far as I'm concerned.

Okay having said that I will now have to clear up another assumption that I know somebody is going to make. I am not saying that you suck or that you might not be that good despite how you've done in past tournaments. Hell, I congradulate you, say good shit, and keep representing BH like ya do. Actually I'm laughing my ass of right now b/c you beat one of my whipping boys in the evo 2002 tournament. I wouldn't even consider his BH to be a fourth as good as what I consider mine to be though. His name is Dindo Bernardino. (kidding about the homie ofcouse :P)

If you haven't figured it out by reading this post I obviously scale the infinite # of hits to the characters I have and will often just go with the quick and powerful combos. I'll go for more hits if I have storm or cable and less if I have sent. Also note that I use commando if I have storm or cable. And I've discoverd so many applications for cross-ups and linking into and out of the assists with BH/storm teams just so you know (especially with commando). I use commando more than any other assist so you should know that the infinite is not the key to my game. I just really like cyclops b/c I can pimp people with him and it's fun to do the GBs with him. My matches don't normally last longer than the 60 second mark just so you know.

One last thing (seriously this time :lol: ) I'm looking to prove myself ANYTIME cuz I know there's a serious lack of credibility in what I say (in your eyes) b/c of my work load handicap that stops me from competing in tournaments. So if someone wants to call me out to play them I'll tell you right now that I except the challenge. So don't even bother posting doubting comments to me if you aren't arranging a battle date. I personally find it sad that I have to type out this much detail in my post b/c people assume you don't know shit. I said in my very first post that I play the same way as what stiltman describe as his style with the exception that I use GBs into the infinite and that I'll keep the infinite going in some cases for various reasons.

[Augmint]

Originally posted by BlackHeartKing


If timed right you connect connect multiple infernos b4 even doing the HoD. I tend to connect 6 from a cyclops assist b4 I get bored and cancel and/or go for the infinite.

Are you seriously saying that you get 6 infernos (each hitting twice) in regular matches?
If I recall the post about multiple infernos, 7 was the most anyone could do ( and only on light char). I'm seriously doubting this:confused:

[chubroq06]

yo wut up all u losers talking about suck ass blackheart(lol). this is the guy my homie aaron(blackheartking) was talking about. ive played all the "pros" they arent that good but ive played a lot of them listing in order of their skill combofiend,SIN,clockwork,duc do,david lee,soo mighty, ghengis. ive beaten all of them at least twice. after saying all that my friend aaron is really kick ass with his UNBEATABLE blackheart no joke this guy is sick with his blackheart with his blackheart and thats only after you get past his cable or storm or other person. so all ya'll should listen to this guy he is seriously good. if u want a better or you want a tight ass blackheart or the perfect defense ask him. or if u want to get the shit whooped out of you go to one of our local arcades in so. cal. (1)video west arcade.glendale(2)the pit,on the cal state LA campus and if want some tips on magneto or sentinal come holla at me and ill help you out. peace

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Originally posted by BlackHeartKing
sigh, you guys make too many assumptions. Okay first off I NEVER said I was better than any of the tournament players mention above. But I'll tell you this, if you are thinking that a player is better than another simply b/c he does tournament you have no common sense. there are people out there that are increbibly skilled in different sports and games that noone ever finds out about them b/c they can't showcase there talents. Unfortunately I am too busy to participate in tournaments which tend to be on the weekends b/c I do school, work, and church full time. This is the reason why I didn't make it to the evo tournament. I was at church all day sunday and almost all day saturday. Now I'm going to once again state that I'm not saying that I'm better than ANYBODY b/c I know someone who doesn't understand the unique language of english will think otherwise.


i didn't say you said you were, i juss asked u buddy...nobody wanted ur gd schedule

[Dasrik]

chubroq and BHK, you're in LA area? Come to Camelot one of these days and I'll show you how to play BH :)

[totalScrubPower]

I played's blackheartking's blackheart before at the pit. Its worst then his cable. I can handle his cable half the time, blackheart, umm, i walk away from matches sometime.

[Deathfist]

Well, looks like this excellent thread just went down the shitter.

[Thienhavodich]

...We should just hold a Bh tourney. And have Bh exebition vids. But if anything if Blackheart king is a west coast player , i know all those that u ahve listed too, Dirty is a wc player and if ur Bh is better than his that means Ur not all talk. But since this is online and the only way to see someones potential is thier tournament standings and the way they talk, people will doubt u.

My opinion about BhKing's post is similar to Stilt...

It really involves the person's style of playing of Bh and thier potential but as to if it sucks, it just depends on the other things they do.

I suck so i have no right to talk shit.

If anyone is really interested in a Bh Tourney Nationwide, I'd be more than Happy to host it. But we just gotta see where the best Location and time is.

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by Augmint


Are you seriously saying that you get 6 infernos (each hitting twice) in regular matches?
If I recall the post about multiple infernos, 7 was the most anyone could do ( and only on light char). I'm seriously doubting this:confused:

doubt if you want. I've done it and friends have seen me do it. I count the delayed hit from an inferno as it's own inferno just so you know. So you could say I only connect three (on cable). all the things I state are things you can do on the medium sized character. I've been in many situations where I've caught a runaway storm and connected more hits than that but I tend to just stop there.

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by Dasrik
chubroq and BHK, you're in LA area? Come to Camelot one of these days and I'll show you how to play BH :)

you going to give me a ride there? :lol: seriously man, you'd have to come to like CSULA on a thursday (around 12:00) or MAYBE video west arcade on friday (at night) b/c those are the only times that I'm able to play nowadays with my schedule. I don't have my license yet and camelot is just too damn far to take a bus from where I live.

[StiltMan]

Well, if anybody has any other questions to steer this thread into a more serious vein again, I'm open to answer them.

For the record, I personally do not believe the infinite or launch into sj. fp XX JD is particularly useful. The infinite can be done fairly consistently, yes, but I'm not at all convinced that there isn't going to be at least a little randomness in the way people bounce, and if you misjudge it at any point, guess what, the other guy just lived. I've never been much of a fan of infinites for any char, really... even Magneto, IMO, doesn't really need his infinite that much except as a setup for either resets, snapbacks, or supers. It's similar with BH... I think that building a team that's geared towards letting BH infinite in the first place hurts him too much on more or less everything else for the sake of flashy combo numbers.

BH/Sentinel/Commando gives BH the drones assist (one of the better defensive helps and horizontal space controllers in the game) and Commando assist (the best vertical space control help next to BH himself in the game, the best all-around countercall, and it also sets up most of his nastiest DHCs). If you build a team around infinites you raise the bar on your execution to get things done under pressure (rarely wise) and you take away the countercall and space control of Commando in favor of Cyclops (which I think is, on the balance, a bad move). If you build a team around infinites that are going to kill someone on one hit, you also have to take out Sentinel in favor of Cable or Storm, thus taking away his defensive help and horizontal space control. IMO, that's too much team chemistry being given away in trade for a combo aspect of his game that he doesn't really need.

Hopefully that interjects a bit more of an even-toned substance to the thread.

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by totalScrubPower
I played's blackheartking's blackheart before at the pit. Its worst then his cable. I can handle his cable half the time, blackheart, umm, i walk away from matches sometime.

hahahaha. Oh really? If you've really played me at the pit than I'm sure you're lying. I usually get like 10 wins in a row when I'm there. And by the time I reach 10 wins I want to use a different team. And that's with me toying around with people (it's only a quarter to play so there's no reason to be serious). So who are you and who did you use against me huh? How long ago did you play me anyway? And when do you want to play me again so that I can hand you a serious ass whooping and expose your lie? I call fake on this guy, cuz I've OCV'd the fuck out of everyone I've played there when even semi serious.

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by StiltMan
Well, if anybody has any other questions to steer this thread into a more serious vein again, I'm open to answer them.

For the record, I personally do not believe the infinite or launch into sj. fp XX JD is particularly useful. The infinite can be done fairly consistently, yes, but I'm not at all convinced that there isn't going to be at least a little randomness in the way people bounce, and if you misjudge it at any point, guess what, the other guy just lived. I've never been much of a fan of infinites for any char, really... even Magneto, IMO, doesn't really need his infinite that much except as a setup for either resets, snapbacks, or supers. It's similar with BH... I think that building a team that's geared towards letting BH infinite in the first place hurts him too much on more or less everything else for the sake of flashy combo numbers.

BH/Sentinel/Commando gives BH the drones assist (one of the better defensive helps and horizontal space controllers in the game) and Commando assist (the best vertical space control help next to BH himself in the game, the best all-around countercall, and it also sets up most of his nastiest DHCs). If you build a team around infinites you raise the bar on your execution to get things done under pressure (rarely wise) and you take away the countercall and space control of Commando in favor of Cyclops (which I think is, on the balance, a bad move). If you build a team around infinites that are going to kill someone on one hit, you also have to take out Sentinel in favor of Cable or Storm, thus taking away his defensive help and horizontal space control. IMO, that's too much team chemistry being given away in trade for a combo aspect of his game that he doesn't really need.

Hopefully that interjects a bit more of an even-toned substance to the thread.

For the record, I don't think there is any real use for BH's launcher, sj.fp into JD either (with exception of a storm DHC, which there 's still better alternatives to). I just put that as an alternative for a better combo into the JD. I myself never use it even though it's really not that hard to pull off. Also I agree that building a team geared around BH's infinite weakens him greatly b/c his play becomes limited and predictable. And indeed you weaken sentinel as well if you really want to use cyclops.

Note I said earlier to learn to use cyclops as a means of working on your defense b/c you must be a more calm and composed player to not get stomped out with him as an assist. I feel people get too assist happy with Commando personally, which weakens his use. Don't you agree? By playing with a cyclops assist, some of these newcomers out there might learn some patience and composer which would improve their defense right off the back. Don't you agree? And IMO a person who has good defense and assist control with cyclops will end up having great defense with commando which is obviously the better anti air anyway.

As you can see I agree with everything you stated above, EXCEPT for the comment on the infinite being done only fairly consistently. The version I use is so easy to pull off that I don't mess up. I even taught my friend Chubroq, who posted above, how to do it consistently in like 5 minutes and he can state how simple it is as well. He'll tell you that when I want to actually do the infinite (which is rare anyway) I do NOT mess up. Despite this I still agree with you on the fact that he does NOT even need the infinite. The only real purpose for learning it or working on it IMO is to us it as a method of improving timing which you must have to at least some degree if you're going to be effective with BH.

Having said this I would just like to reiterate Stilt's call for more even toned substance on this thread. I'd also like to apologize for the sidetracking from the subject that has taken place do to my original post. I suppose I should have just humbled myself and let it be. any questions that someone might have I'm more than happy to give a co-opinion with Stiltman or dasrik on to help out.

[BlackHeartKing]

Hey I just thought of a question that should get this thread back on track. This goes out to Stilts and Dasrik and anyone else with some strategy. What's you strategy for playing against a team like:

1) Sin's team
2) MSP
3) Sprial teams
4) Strider/ Doom teams

I have my own pretty effective strategy for these teams but I'd like some out side ideas on how to deal with them. I'm always looking to get better so I think a combination of different strategies would in the end make for a better blackheart. Let's just assume that we're using BH/xxx/commando for this question okay.

[Thienhavodich]

Handling spiral teams or Strider/doom teams can be quite difficult sometimes. I the best way that i can think of is to keep away and predict thier moves and capcom them. either that or if u find a big mistake snap out cable and burn them 5 meters u've been waiting to use.

[Dasrik]

vs. Team Scrub: This hella depends on the person controlling the team. On the average Team Scrub, Doom/BH/Commando actually still works well. Sentinel is NOT trapping this team, and between inferno and corridor, it's hard for the average Joe to start flystomping. When you're playing Blackheart on point vs. Sentinel and especially when Cable is coming in, it's important to not give ground at all. Put Sentinel in a box where he can't approach you that well to do damage, and chip occasionally with Inferno xx JD if you can't land any clean hits. Don't Inferno xx HOD unless the opponent only has two meters. vs. Cable, as long as you stay above him and you haven't screwed up on Sentinel, Blackheart can do his job alright.

vs. MSP: Two ways to approach this fight - keepaway method (jumpback fierce and call AAA when they get close) and fort method (jump in place, call projectile assist and dash when they get close). IMO, fort method is most effective because it doesn't require you to put yourself out at risk by jumping with fierce. It's easiest with Sentinel drones, but can work with Doom rocks, Sabretooth gunshots or what have you. If the MSP player is very aggressive, keepaway method might actually work better though because if Magneto runs into enough drones, you can combo them into AA (Commando) and end the Magneto fight early. If you kill Magneto, then you have an easy time with Storm, just don't fall on her launcher and don't eat any hails.

vs. Spiral: BH is more useful as an assist in this fight, but if you bring him in on point, you want to try to rush Spiral and keep her from getting swords. You get to throw out Infernos without supers in this fight, as long as you're backed up decently with an assist that can run interference vs. knife traps. If she gets swords, the standby SJ.RH airdash RH works as a strategy until she gets rid of her swords. You want to try to kill Spiral if you can, because BH fighting Cable while Spiral assist is still alive might mean you'll end up losing even if you're able to put a dent in Spiral.

vs. Strider/Doom: Somewhat like Spiral, except you don't have to worry as much about killing Strider. Well, you do if you don't have a great Blackheart, because Doom can mess you up if you're not careful. Jumping around really doesn't work because of animal farm; SJ.RH works better most of the time, but if you get close, you want to try to stay close. As for Doom, the trick to fighting Doom with Blackheart is to superjump at the same time he does so his gunshot will have a hard time connecting with you.

Just some notes.

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by Thienhavodich
Handling spiral teams or Strider/doom teams can be quite difficult sometimes. I the best way that i can think of is to keep away and predict thier moves and capcom them. either that or if u find a big mistake snap out cable and burn them 5 meters u've been waiting to use.

thanx for your post but I think you need to explain what you're trying to say better. If you just try to keep away from spiral teams and strider doom teams, how do you do it. I myself would rather keep the pressure on these types of teams, using the lk, and demon so that they can't activate there spinning little friends. I find that they're not so dangerous if you stop them from activating their key weapons. If you're going to use this strategy though, I suggest you pay close attention to any AAs that they might have. Get too aggressive and you get blasted back and have to deal with the swords, ourobouros, and doom's assist anyway. If they do get there offense going you just have to play smart defense and not get chipped to death. In the case of a strider/doom team I suggest that you sj, throwing RH demons if possible to disrupt strider from pinning you down. Realize this is the only time I would advise sj. You're much more effective on the ground level. I'm curious to see what others might think about these situations. So give your input.

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by Dasrik
some good advice posted

There's some good stuff here that he posted. For team scrub I've found that you can be pretty aggressive on sentinel w/ BH. Even with a commando assist to get around you can lay the pressure on him with a lot of j.lks and FPs while calling out your own commando to counter any efforts they might put up to fight back. Remember to be careful once you've called out your assist though. if you're not careful you'll see you assist taking a beating (eventually dying b4 you know it). BH's JD is your best friend in this match-up.

I wasn't going to say this but you really are better off using BH as an assist against spiral. It isn't necessary but you can almost completely stop her from ever activating sword w/o getting punished in the process. you should call him out whenever they might try to jump and be ready to follow up with another attack that you'll need if they block the AA and still try to activate.

I like what he posted on dealing with MSP and use similar tactics. I would advise mixing it up between what he said so as not to become to obvious w/ your strategy. The main idea you should be using here is, jab if they're close and FP if they aren't, using an AA when appropriate. One of my favorite things to do is try to punish Psylocke every time she is called with an assist of my own(commando). Make sure to still be guarding retaliation from they're front man though or you'll find you and your assist getting raped. Also don't get too happy with your assist. rely on it too much and you'll find BH getting snap out and you assist being juggled to death.

[Thienhavodich]

Yeah i have hard time with those teams but i ment playing a mind game and finding mistakes to go at them. If i was a better bh and knew how to not get carried away i would prollie rush them down and not let get a chance at knives or drones or what ever they got for me but thats prollie not till another month or so.

[Big_marcus86]

im working on a BH/doom, anyone got pointers for that combo?

[totalScrubPower]

Originally posted by BlackHeartKing


hahahaha. Oh really? If you've really played me at the pit than I'm sure you're lying. I usually get like 10 wins in a row when I'm there. And by the time I reach 10 wins I want to use a different team. And that's with me toying around with people (it's only a quarter to play so there's no reason to be serious). So who are you and who did you use against me huh? How long ago did you play me anyway? And when do you want to play me again so that I can hand you a serious ass whooping and expose your lie? I call fake on this guy, cuz I've OCV'd the fuck out of everyone I've played there when even semi serious.

And i quote, myself again, i walk away from matches sometimes, since you pretty much destoryed my first two characters. And you still have 3 characters in tact. I am the guy using sentinel, cable, commando. I lost to your blackheart 7 out of 8 times. :mad:

I play you when you were using blackheart, cable, commando. And magneto, ironman, psylocke.
I beat you when you had blackheart, strider, doom with team scrub.
The only team i didn't beat, i lost 9 straight times is blackheart, storm (expansion), commando.

Well anyways, infinite into launch + commando (had that doen to me decent amount of timemany time), does half life at least.

[StiltMan]

Originally posted by BlackHeartKing
1) Sin's team

Team Scrub can either go really good or really bad. It all depends on whether the other player is mentally prepared to win a patience fight with you. If they're going to start Cable, then your job is to gang up on him with both Sentinel and BH and get him off point without losing either of your two principals. Preferably by killing him, but one way or the other, you've got to exploit the fact that you've got two assists for your side and their Sentinel only has one. That's generally the plan for any Cable/XXX/Commando... get their Cable of point and then work from the fact that Sent/BH/Commando usually has a serious advantage on any XXX on that team.

If they start Sentinel and try to rush at you (i.e. they're not playing it patiently) you play it defensive and let him come.

If they're truly prepared to win a patience fight with you though, they're usually going to succeed. This is one reason why I still keep a Team Scrub of my own in practice; BH/Sent/Commando does much better against the overwhelming number of Magneto teams out there than it does against a stone-cold patient Cable/Sent//Commando.

However, there aren't many people who are prepared to win a patience fight with me, so I don't automatically stop playing BH/Sent/Commando when I see Team Scrub.

2) MSP

Run from Magneto. Take away the ground with a combination of j. fierce, Sentinel's drones, and pokes, and force him to over the top where his offense is one-dimensional and one-directional. You will get the first solid hit a lot more often than he will, and he won't survive the DHC. Then Sentinel can play with a lead, Commando and BH on Storm/Psylocke. This is almost always horrifically bad for Storm.

3) Sprial teams

Start Sentinel. Spiral can win patience fights with BH just by remembering to block and pushblock. Sentinel and Commando don't help him much on that. However, Sentinel/BH/any-AAA against Spiral is about the most one-sided matchup there is among the top eight or nine chars. Spiral has absolutely no chance in that fight. Let Sentinel maul Spiral and let BH hold the lead against whoever is behind her.

4) Strider/ Doom teams

Start BH. If they're starting Strider, play a patient running game and make him work hard for everything. BH has close-range reach advantage on Strider, teleport attacks are very dangerous to try on BH because any Commando hit that you anticipate getting because of the teleport can lead to a DHC that will most definitely kill Strider outright, and Strider simply can't build the meter he needs to stay with BH if he only starts with the one he gets at the beginning if BH doesn't get wild. As long as BH does enough damage to Strider that Strider can't stay on point much after BH, Sentinel will win this fight against the rest of the team, because there's no Strider/XXX/Doom combination where XXX/Doom or Doom/XXX is going to get very far on Sentinel/BH/Commando.

If they're starting a battery char and putting Strider second, keep playing it defensive, use Sentinel's drones to cut away the ground, and keep their first char from using Doom on you much. Sentinel's drones should keep most any char other than Strider himself from getting a lot of usefulness out of Doom on this team, and if you play it carefully they shouldn't be able to meaningfully chase BH down too much. Then Sentinel fights Strider later on, and goes trap versus trap. Trying to keep a Strider/Doom trap going on a patient Sentinel/BH is hellaciously hard.

[Augmint]

Originally posted by BlackHeartKing


doubt if you want. I've done it and friends have seen me do it. I count the delayed hit from an inferno as it's own inferno just so you know. So you could say I only connect three (on cable). all the things I state are things you can do on the medium sized character. I've been in many situations where I've caught a runaway storm and connected more hits than that but I tend to just stop there.

I'm not doubting it now when you include the juggle as an inferno by itself. *shrug*

[Tanion]

Just wanted some pointers because I'm starting to use Spiral/Blackheart/Cyclops. Not really interested in using any of the the big 4 and I think this team is pretty decent without them. Mostly I just use Spiral for battery until about I get max'ed out meter so that blackheart can come in [Through DHC or Circle of Swords] for inferno xx HOD, air judgements w/ Cyclops assist, sj. jab, c.short into Cyke AAA into infinite or inferno into HOD or Armageddon.

I have a question though. Like if it's in the corner... would it be better to do Inferno xx HOD or Armageddon? I noticed that some of the demons go outside of the screen and don't hit the opponent as much. Whereas Armageddon hits most of the time but there is a few cases where there is enough space in the meteors that it misses. Oh and also is the Armageddon mashable?

[Augmint]

Originally posted by Tanion
. Oh and also is the Armageddon mashable?

Yes, and you can hold forward to get the meteors to move forward slightly. Also you can sometimes sj and follow up as it ends depending on how it hits (height related I think) - rare though.

[MegamanDS]

Originally posted by BlackHeartKing


hahahaha. Oh really? If you've really played me at the pit than I'm sure you're lying. I usually get like 10 wins in a row when I'm there. And by the time I reach 10 wins I want to use a different team. And that's with me toying around with people (it's only a quarter to play so there's no reason to be serious). So who are you and who did you use against me huh? How long ago did you play me anyway? And when do you want to play me again so that I can hand you a serious ass whooping and expose your lie? I call fake on this guy, cuz I've OCV'd the fuck out of everyone I've played there when even semi serious.

dude, if he knows where u play and played u, y does he have to be lying?

he even said he walked away cause u beat him bad, that shows his honest and he probably has played u.

take it easy man.

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by MegamanDS


dude, if he knows where u play and played u, y does he have to be lying?

he even said he walked away cause u beat him bad, that shows his honest and he probably has played u.

take it easy man.

If you look at his original post it could be mistaken for him saying that my BH sucked worse than my cable. And if he WAS saying that, claiming that he played me, that would make him a liar. I already said mah bad to him on a private message so don't think me to be some shady person aiight.

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by Tanion
Just wanted some pointers because I'm starting to use Spiral/Blackheart/Cyclops. Not really interested in using any of the the big 4 and I think this team is pretty decent without them. Mostly I just use Spiral for battery until about I get max'ed out meter so that blackheart can come in [Through DHC or Circle of Swords] for inferno xx HOD, air judgements w/ Cyclops assist, sj. jab, c.short into Cyke AAA into infinite or inferno into HOD or Armageddon.

I have a question though. Like if it's in the corner... would it be better to do Inferno xx HOD or Armageddon? I noticed that some of the demons go outside of the screen and don't hit the opponent as much. Whereas Armageddon hits most of the time but there is a few cases where there is enough space in the meteors that it misses. Oh and also is the Armageddon mashable?

Okay a spiral/BH combination can actually be pretty good but I recommend that you don't use cyclops with this team. you're much better off with a commando assist b/c cyclops won't take the pressure off you from someone like BH, sent, Mag or storm. Plus you really don't want to try to base this team on the infinite. your game plan with this team will be limited to chipping or the infinite which will make BH less effective. As for the which super is better to cancel into while in the corner. IMO it would be HOD. you can connect a RH demons as they are falling from getting blasted and if timed right they will be stuck standing there red-orange with demons holding them. From here you can jump in j.lk, j.lk, l.k, rh giving you an additional 15 point of damage. This tends to be more damage than you'd get from armageddon on average and I'm not sure but I think you can repeat the j.lk, j.lk, lk, rh over and over again without worry of them mashing out of the demons. I've done this too my friend a few times and he swares that he couldn't mash out of it. But it's always been a case of where he was dying as I did the second j.lk part. If anyone can check this I'd appreciate it.

[StiltMan]

Now, Spiral/BH/AAA is a team where I would be ambivalent about whether I'd rather have Cyclops or Commando as the AAA (assuming I didn't want to just put Cable in there). Yeah, I know I've said that Commando is better for BH, but I think Cyclops may be more better for Spiral. Her main problem matchup is going to be Sentinel, and Cyclops creates just that much more space and block stun for her than Commando does. With Commando, you've got less blockstun although a little more space control, but if they block it you've got far less time to capitalize on the breathing room you've created before you have to be ready to follow up. OTOH, just about any blocking of Cyclops is a free swords call... there's a very good reason why Duc used to play Spiral/Cable/Cyclops before he discovered Sentinel as a third char, and continued to play both teams for a long, long time. Even these days, when he doesn't want to use Spiral/Cable/Sentinel it's my understanding that he likes to sometimes go to Spiral/Sentinel/Cyclops. I haven't played with Spiral/Cyclops nearly enough to really claim a huge amount of intelligence on it, but I do know that I think it's enough better than Spiral/Commando against people prepared to be patient on Spiral that I think it may be worth sacrificing BH's Commando help for it.

[Tanion]

^ I was debating that too. Commando or Cyke. But Cyke gave me more breathing room [block stun] for me to load swords and shoot some to cover Cyke. Anyways I know Commando is a great assist and does a nice chunk of damage he is a very crappy character. At least when I have Cyke I have 3 dependable characters rather than 2 since Commando has NOTHING favorable against any of the big 4 [Or AA assists like Cyke and Psy]. Plus really you already have a rather large AA with Blackheart's AA. Even though it may not be quick but with Spiral's swords and teleports it can knock out just about anything [with proper distancing]. Plus Cyke invinciblity which I think it's crucial to snuff out Doom AA's, Capcom AA's, Tron AA's, Sentinel Ground, Storm Projectile.


I really don't focus on the infinite too much. Maybe land about 2 reps then launch into whatever. Mostly I try to focus on sj. jumping and throw RH demons, airdash to try to cross up with a sj. short land c.short, call cyke, c.foward Cyke hits, inferno into HOD. Works pretty nicely for a blocked chain too since I think when you throw in Cyke then Inferno it's pretty hard to guard cancel it. But then again I only know of a few people who can actually guard cancel the inferno xx HOD but I noticed that they can't get it off when Cyke comes in. Guess it fucks up the timing or they are doing it wrong.

[StiltMan]

Spiral/BH/Cyclops is going to be a Spiral-centric team. BH will primarily serve as an assist char for Spiral to use to get a lead, as a DHC if she manages to land a good monster combo of some form (e.g. air combo into metamorph DHC armageddon), and eventually to turtle on a lead. These are all things he is very good at. The question will be whether you can keep your cool with Spiral and give BH a lead to protect, because if you can't in the face of some pretty serious attack, then this team's going to lose.

[DearestHelpless]

Does anyone know any good combos off capcom AAA?

[Dasrik]

Uh.. inferno xx HOD...

Also, on Sentinel/Blackheart/Juggy/Hulk, dark thunder xx HOD (not rollable if you do it right). Also on the heavy people, you might be able to follow them up and tack on some hits. In the corner after killing a character, if you know the corridor will hit you can superjump before it hits and drop roundhouse demons on them, and go into infinite.

[StiltMan]

I have come to the conclusion that Sentinel-Y is BH's favorite assist. If you have an AAA then sure, Commando is his favorite one of those (with a possible second choice of Guile), but overall I think BH can get along a lot better on a team with a game plan that doesn't involve Commando than he will on a team that doesn't involve Sentinel. If you don't have Sentinel on the team, then some sort of projectile assist that gets in people's way for a good period of time can potentially substitute (e.g. Doom).

e.g. BH/Sentinel/Commando will work. BH/Storm/Sentinel will work. BH/Doom/Commando can potentially work. BH/Cable/Cyclops doesn't work. BH/Sent/Cyclops sort of works, but works better with Sentinel starting.

[Jaminis X]

Who said I retired?

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by Jaminis X
Who said I retired? Soo did, like a month ago or so. He said you got a new job or something... don't remember exactly what it was.

[Jaminis X]

Yeah I got a promotion, I just took a little break. I'm not playin' as often as I use to.

[Glendale's Pimp]

Originally posted by BlackHeartKing


thanx for your post but I think you need to explain what you're trying to say better. If you just try to keep away from spiral teams and strider doom teams, how do you do it. I myself would rather keep the pressure on these types of teams, using the lk, and demon so that they can't activate there spinning little friends. I find that they're not so dangerous if you stop them from activating their key weapons. If you're going to use this strategy though, I suggest you pay close attention to any AAs that they might have. Get too aggressive and you get blasted back and have to deal with the swords, ourobouros, and doom's assist anyway. If they do get there offense going you just have to play smart defense and not get chipped to death. In the case of a strider/doom team I suggest that you sj, throwing RH demons if possible to disrupt strider from pinning you down. Realize this is the only time I would advise sj. You're much more effective on the ground level. I'm curious to see what others might think about these situations. So give your input.

Look fool i kicked ur ass all the time in glendale when u use to come down and i want to play u for MONEY so i can shut your fucking mouth it's simple YES or NO.I don't even know why your talking all good but u fucking suck best bh i played is jamaal's.So just to prove u suck let Dc-Static know when u wanna get your ass kick by the way u have always have some dumb fucking reasons to say u can't play put u or shut up bitch.u know where to find me in video west your Bh sucks period.

[Thienhavodich]

wow thats a totally different point of view...

But on better terms i recorded alot of bh matches at the regional, most likely gonna make some type of Bh vid, a non boring that doesn't just cosist of bh jumpin up with r.demons. If anyone wanna contribute to this vid just Im me at AdeoSaoBeoVay or just pm me.

[chubroq06]

yo glendale's pimp im like the only regular going to video west that uses mag so u wanna come and see whose mag is better im me and well see whose team is the shit.

[Deathfist]

Originally posted by Glendale's Pimp
Look fool i kicked ur ass all the time in glendale when u use to come down and i want to play u for MONEY so i can shut your fucking mouth it's simple YES or NO.I don't even know why your talking all good but u fucking suck best bh i played is jamaal's.So just to prove u suck let Dc-Static know when u wanna get your ass kick by the way u have always have some dumb fucking reasons to say u can't play put u or shut up bitch.u know where to find me in video west your Bh sucks period.

Even if he sucks [; I doubt it BTW...], he has posted much better info in this thread than you have on how to operate the character. Surprisingly most of that info is accurate. He's trying to help people improve their game and help the community unlike you who is sabotaging it. He doesen't need to expose himself to the risk of abuse.

If he posts something inaccurate we're smart enough to be able to tell.

If you post again, please post on how to improve general BH play [if yours is any better] or simply don't bother.

BH King, accept his challenge and videotape it. I need to see a good BH in action, and if I don't, I need a good laugh.

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by Deathfist
BH King, accept his challenge and videotape it. I need to see a good BH in action, and if I don't, I need a good laugh.

TRUST ME, his challenge has already been accepted and I'll be playing him the first chance I have to get to Glendale (or he could just bring his ass to UCLA on a Thursday between 12:30 and 2 and play me). As for video taping the match(s)...I'll need someone with a recorder to be there. Trust me they won't be wastin their time recording the match(s) b/c they'll get to see some BH ocv action. :evil: This clown is all cocky b/c he beat me back when I was a noob so I think he's going to find himself extremely disappointed after all is said and done.

[StiltMan]

BHKing: the semi-repeatable chain combo that leads into st. rh after HOD in the corner is indeed mashable. I've been playing with this one for a few months, but I've seen at least two occasions where opponents have unmistakeably mashed out of it. In serious games I'll only try to do this if I don't have a good DHC handy... BH/Sent DHC does as much or more damage in the corner for two meters than it does for three everywhere else, and nobody's going to be mashing that. OTOH, if all I've got left for whatever reason is BH/Commando or the like, then yeah, I'll see if I can get away with it. Why not? There's rarely much reason not to, it's not terribly risky, and if they don't know how to get out of it then that's a dead char.

As for the rest of this, I would be prepared to say that BHKing is at least decent, which would make him better than the vast majority of BH players out there. Hell, there are people who watch me play BH all the time in my own home arcade who don't quite seem to get it. The easy-moding habits are a little too comfortable for too many people, even though the tactics those habits lead to suck.

However, until BHKing puts up some tournament credentials there's only so much I can really say. Although video never hurts.

[Magnetic Hail]

since we are talking about the newly buffed elite blackheart, how do you dismantle one ? Any particular match ups to exploit ?

[Glendale's Pimp]

Originally posted by chubroq06
yo glendale's pimp im like the only regular going to video west that uses mag so u wanna come and see whose mag is better im me and well see whose team is the shit. As for u im down to play u for some cash and post back when u wanna meet up in VW.as for blackheartking wants to play for cash only 10dollars fuck that i'll just whoop your blackass for frree bitch.btw i don't think u improved it's only your loud mouth has done the job for u but your game still sucks.yup still the same guy with 1000reasons to say when he gets his ass kick never runs out of reasons.wwhy don't u 2 fools meet me in vw so i'll beeasy for me just to whoop both of your fucking ass 1time.

[chubroq06]

haha i laugh at ure suck ass comebacks. dude ure the one who started this shit but ill finish it off with whooping ure ass just give me the time and ill be there.any1 who wants to see a real fuckover should come and see me play this foo. yo aaron we will show this guy who thinks hes somthing. come on over and have dan holla at me for the time

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by StiltMan
BHKing: the semi-repeatable chain combo that leads into st. rh after HOD in the corner is indeed mashable. I've been playing with this one for a few months, but I've seen at least two occasions where opponents have unmistakeably mashed out of it. In serious games I'll only try to do this if I don't have a good DHC handy... BH/Sent DHC does as much or more damage in the corner for two meters than it does for three everywhere else, and nobody's going to be mashing that. OTOH, if all I've got left for whatever reason is BH/Commando or the like, then yeah, I'll see if I can get away with it. Why not? There's rarely much reason not to, it's not terribly risky, and if they don't know how to get out of it then that's a dead char.

Thanks for the clarification. I was pretty sure that you could mash outta it but if I'm right it's not the easiest thing to mash outta. Plus you risk doing an attack as you try to mash out which can turn into another combo for blackheart. I was thinking that if you connect the S.rh after the HoD you could jump in with two lks and follow up with a luancher as soon as you hit the ground. From there you can try to cross them up or throw into an assist or something. Any ideas? I admit this tactic would be more for show but it can also work to confuse your opponent.

[chubroq06]

Originally posted by chubroq06
haha i laugh at ure suck ass comebacks. dude ure the one who started this shit but ill finish it off with whooping ure ass just give me the time and ill be there.any1 who wants to see a real fuckover should come and see me play this foo. yo aaron we will show this guy who thinks hes somthing. come on over and have dan holla at me for the time

[Thienhavodich]

so.... who won?

[DC_StaTic]

honestly VW wont clarify anything if u guys play there, if your gonna play .. play at ffa and let everyone watch like it was a tournament, honestly .. timmy and aaron...i think you guys will get beat for one thing.. timmy last time i played u .. u didnt have mags infi down 90%.. youll need that to win and another reason, u guys dont play much comp, just each other and readin & postin on srk wont get u skill either..you speak knowledge and crazy notation combos but can u preform?they are 2 totally different things.. ive seen people talk crazy marvel shit on here but when it came down to it.. that mumbo jumbo shit didnt really seem like he knew what he was talkin about, yah u read some tips here and there but it wont really help unless u practice it on good people and as for VW peeps weve been playing hardcore playa's.. best Blackheart ive been playin is jamaal cuz hes OG with his cross ups and tactics.. but he still get beat here and there by VW peeps, but hey i could be wrong, you could win.. prove me wrong .. but yah as for time.. anytime at ffa i guess

Edit: its a $10 minimum bet with as many rematch's as u want, but each rematch will be double or nothing

edit 2 : i dont even think u guys can take out glendales biatch ..thats how much we got better:evil:

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by DC_StaTic
i dont even think u guys can take out glendales biatch ..thats how much we got better:evil:

to say that you don't think I could take out GB is extremely harsh words. I played him not that long ago and OCV'd him a few times. I don't think that much has changed in such a small amount of time. Personally I'd love to prove you wrong but I don't have any way of getting up to FFA. If you get me a ride I'd don't mind hookin them up with gas money and what not. Hell I'll even get the blunts :P

[DC_StaTic]

ohh shit blunts .. i found my new friend! :D .. hit me up with directions sometime and we will take u and timmy to ffa, just be at VW and we will pick u up, cuz where u live is kinda far .. belive me GB will beat u, hes beatin combofiend and others

[themadvlad]

<<to say that you don't think I could take out GB is extremely harsh words. I played him not that long ago and OCV'd him a few times. :P>>




Hmmmm
I wonder when that happened...
Was this the last time we played when I beat like 7 times in a row and you kept sayin I normally don't play like this but this stick really sux



Edit: BTW BlackHeart sucks
When they were makin this game, somebody said how about we create a charachter just for those loosers who can never learn any real moves or combos and we'll give this character just one move which will be better than any other move in the game.

And then the manager said "That's a great idea. We'll call this character BlackHeart and he will be able to jump up and down thowin his little demons and annoyin the hell outta everyone."

And that's exactly how BlackHeart made it into this game.
It's a true story

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by themadvlad
Hmmmm
I wonder when that happened...
Was this the last time we played when I beat like 7 times in a row and you kept sayin I normally don't play like this but this stick really sux

Haha I smell BS!! You beat my BH/storm/xxx team twice and that's when I first started using her. And then you beat my BH/cab/cyc team once. That adds up to 3...NOT 7! Plus I even showed you mid match that I was jumping back throwing FP demons without even pressing the FP. Eh, Who cares you can have those shit wins. Cuz I came back and OCV'd you both matches we played after that with my bh/cab/com.

And about BH being put in the game for people with no real skills...what exactly is cable :lol I'm not seeing much of a difference here.

"I say we put a guy in this game that does nothing but jump back and shoot a gun while calling out assists to save his ass b/c he has no real strengths...You know what that's not enough. Let's give him a cheesy ass super that he can link into itself over and over again so that even scrubs can have a chance at winning against the good players just b/c they sneezed while playing a match."

And that's exactly how Cable made it into this game.
It's a true story :P

[chubroq06]

aiight i see dan. me and aaron meet up with ya'll. we'll see whose the shit. im not saying im the shit or nothing but when glendale's pimp comes out of nowhere saying hes gonna kick my ass in marvel. i said fuck that . u guys probably will beat me but fuck it all it just a fuckin game. whenever we're out at VW ill give u a call and we'll go over to FFA. latez

[Big_marcus86]

R.I.P- this thread

If anyone has real practical game advice with BH please try to revive this, instead of having people bitch back and forth.

[DC_StaTic]

Originally posted by themadvlad
<<
Edit: BTW BlackHeart sucks
When they were makin this game, somebody said how about we create a charachter just for those loosers who can never learn any real moves or combos and we'll give this character just one move which will be better than any other move in the game.

And then the manager said "That's a great idea. We'll call this character BlackHeart and he will be able to jump up and down thowin his little demons and annoyin the hell outta everyone."

And that's exactly how BlackHeart made it into this game.
It's a true story

damn niggas be high .. u guys makin up how chars are made lol .. timmy yah hit me up im down to put down some if u or aaron wanna play me also :D

edit: go this sunday a lot of peeps are gonna be there for comp, and they can watch the matchs with u and GP.. ill try and make it later on the day if i can or have time

[Thienhavodich]

all characters require skill, bh has his demons, cable has his links and more, and mag has his ss psycloke n infinite. Its all in how u play, if u can't catch a cable that only runs back and shoots and assist your not good, if u can't beat a mag that only depends on infinite to catch or depends on psycloke then ur not good, and if u cant hail the fuk out of a horrible bh that only jumps and demons you shouldn't even be on the machine.

given that most of those basic moves are what determines a match, but its the overall game play and mental match that is made.

As for people posting alot when they can't perform... hehe i'm one of those people. i can tell u how to do infinites and combos, and most of the average players know, but i still lose to no name scrubs that do miricle mistakes.

See everyone thats going to N^3 i'll be there to get ocv'd

[Deathfist]

Originally posted by Big_marcus86
R.I.P- this thread

If anyone has real practical game advice with BH please try to revive this, instead of having people bitch back and forth. Well, looks like this thread just went back into the shitter.

[SSJ George Bush]

Do people think your Blackheart is annoying?

If no then your Blackheart sucks :lol:

[themadvlad]

<<<Haha I smell BS!! You beat my BH/storm/xxx team twice and that's when I first started using her. And then you beat my BH/cab/cyc team once. That adds up to 3...NOT 7! Plus I even showed you mid match that I was jumping back throwing FP demons without even pressing the FP. Eh, Who cares you can have those shit wins. Cuz I came back and OCV'd you both matches we played after that with my bh/cab/com.>>>

Whateva dawg
I don't really remember exactly how it went down and I don't really care. U can tell everyone u OCV'd me 30 times in a row. I don't really care. It's just a game to me. But just for the record, I know u didn't OCV me (there are very few people who can do dat to me and ur definetely not one of them) and when we played it was when I first started usin storm 2 so I don't know why u makin excuses again cuz I'm not.

<<<And about BH being put in the game for people with no real skills...what exactly is cable :lol I'm not seeing much of a difference here.>>>

I don't see much difference either,(at least we agree on somethin)
That's why I can say u got no real skills because you're usin both Cable and BlackHeart. I could learn how to use this team in 10 minutes and beat u wit ur own team but I don't wanna become a scrub.

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by themadvlad
I don't see much difference either,(at least we agree on somethin)
That's why I can say u got no real skills because you're usin both Cable and BlackHeart. I could learn how to use this team in 10 minutes and beat u wit ur own team but I don't wanna become a scrub. Become?

[chubroq06]

sorry dan ure ass whooping will have to wait till later(lol):D cause i gots church on sunday.dude u should know that. anyways, its gonna be all day so we're gonna have to wait till ill spank all ya'll. haha oh yea damn, vladie wuts up eith the trash talking last time i saw u play u were getting whooped on so we is gonna have to see how much uve got to show. aiight peace:cool: lol

[chubroq06]

oh yea dan. u said i should get my own avatar so here she is wut do think? haha

[themadvlad]

<<<Become?>>>

Yea become


<<<vladie wuts up eith the trash talking last time i saw u play u were getting whooped on so we is gonna have to see how much uve got to show. aiight peace lol>>>

Sup man
Mah bad. I wasn't tryin to talk shit, I'm usually betta than dat.
I hear you got a lot better. Can't wait to play u guys.
What r u guys doin today. We could prolly pick u guys up

Call up Dan and let us know, yea
Peace

[themadvlad]

<<<Do people think your Blackheart is annoying?
If no then your Blackheart sucks>>>


That's a good one

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by themadvlad
Yea become ...

Do you want me to say it flat out?
If you complain about people picking certain characters, then say "I don't want to pick those characters cuz I'll become a scrub"... YOU WON'T BECOME A SCRUB, BECAUSE YOU ALREADY ARE A SCRUB.

lolkthxbyeirl

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by Dasrik
...

Do you want me to say it flat out?
If you complain about people picking certain characters, then say "I don't want to pick those characters cuz I'll become a scrub"... YOU WON'T BECOME A SCRUB, BECAUSE YOU ALREADY ARE A SCRUB.

lolkthxbyeirl

Hey take it easy there big guy :p Vlad's talkin a lot of shit but he's still the homie. On a serious note I'm glad you got better Vlad. Can't wait to play you :evil:

Now so that this thread doesn't die I'd like to say...This is more of a how to tell if your blackheart is good rather than how to tell if your blackheart sucks...

If people ask you not to pick him against them. Your BH is good :lol:

[chubroq06]

Originally posted by BlackHeartKing

if people ask you not to pick him against them. Your BH is good :lol: [/B]

haha :lol: this is tru. also vlad knows we is just playing around dont worry he wont trip:rolleyes: naw im j/k. but seriously yea we're gonna hit up FFA u know. go and get somecompetition. latez

[DC_StaTic]

Originally posted by chubroq06
sorry dan ure ass whooping will have to wait till later(lol):D cause i gots church on sunday.dude u should know that. anyways, its gonna be all day so we're gonna have to wait till ill spank all ya'll. haha oh yea damn, vladie wuts up eith the trash talking last time i saw u play u were getting whooped on so we is gonna have to see how much uve got to show. aiight peace:cool: lol

your msp vs. my Mspbot ??? ... if im high... say good bye:), i dont care how good u got im fuckin anyone up that plays me when im faded:evil: ... like now:D


as for yer av... shes aight im not a real fan of her

[Ring of 17]

A couple pages back there was some talk about Spiral. I was considering starting to play Spiral/Sentinal/Blackheart, mostly because no one around here plays anything like that and I like playing all three of those characters (though I should admit right off that my Blackheart does in fact suck. But I'm going to use some of the things in this thread to try to remedy that.)

At first glance it looks to me like this team has some decent synergy as far as assists go, but I'm not too sure about reliable or useful DHCs. Any advice as far as the strengths/weaknesses in that lineup?

Regardless of whether I'll be using him in that team, I'd like to get some experienced advice on using Blackheart as an anchor when the match runs down to one character left on each side (most likely this means vs. Sent, Commando, Cyclops, or Psylocke). How does your strategy change when assists are out of the picture? Examples of when it's safe to play keepaway to maintain a lead, or when it's better to play more aggressively would be nice.

[StiltMan]

Dasrik's combo video over in General Gaming Discussion has the BH/Sent/Commando DHC I was reluctant to reveal earlier in it.

[Mixup]

Bh just....sucks:p

Stilt why don't you get aim fool, i'd like to trade some tourney war stories with the novel man himself:lol:

[DC_StaTic]

Originally posted by Thienhavodich
so.... who won?

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1156051#post1156051

m/s-bot/p up 2 - zero against his BH ...

pretty crazy since he said i would "NEVER" beat him with that team.. told u nigga dont doubt my skills, shoula backed down now u just anotha one on the list :lol:

[Thienhavodich]

so is that bh king or which guy? anyhow i got a tourney vid from texas regionals and about to go up to Neb for a small tourney since stupid n^3 is canceled gonna up there to make combo vids. Any one interested in trading tourney vids msg me up, pm, or aim

[BlackHeartKing]

Originally posted by DC_StaTic


http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1156051#post1156051

m/s-bot/p up 2 - zero against his BH ...

pretty crazy since he said i would "NEVER" beat him with that team.. told u nigga dont doubt my skills, shoula backed down now u just anotha one on the list :lol:

eh whatever. I under estimated how much better you've gotten and picked Sentinel who I've been using in the arcade for 2 weeks now :(

I spanked you're better team of M/S-storm/P with my number one team of BH/Cab/Com though. If you hadn't walked away b4 the match was over you would have noticed that I still had the equivalent of 2 & 2/3 of my energy at the end of that match :evil:

And until you beat my #1 team I still say so what to any of the joke matches b4 that. All this said and done you've definitely gotten better and I'll have to use my best team to beat you from now on.

[StiltMan]

That thread doesn't come up for me. Somebody post a link that does, please.

Mixup: Damn.... I'd like to get AIM except that if I let anything of mine touch AOL I'd just feel dirty. I've got MSN, Yahoo, ICQ... no AIM. :confused:

Just for clarifying... that DHC doesn't have be done with j. fierce the way Dasrik demonstrated it in the video. Anything where you can combo into Commando with some sort of reaction time enough that you can follow up with inferno/HOD at the right timing will do. The most common way I personally get in real matches is to hit someone with an air-to-air rh and then land next to them and st. short/fwd/Commando/etc. However, somebody coming in and running into j. fierce is also not a bad way to do it, call Commando as he did while they're still bouncing around in the demons and do the DHC from that. Of course, there's still getting it off of the old school cold cr. short, but as a practical matter that's rarely going to happen.

[Mixup]

i wonder if you can meet somone air to air mid-regular jump height

and jump short forward+commando, airsuper, frame cancel hsf?

That shit would be dope but the start up on bh's super is the main issue i can't test at the moment.

i hate to fight mstron with bh/sent/capcom, you spend more time blocking than magneto:bluu:

[StiltMan]

Originally posted by Mixup
i wonder if you can meet somone air to air mid-regular jump height

and jump short forward+commando, airsuper, frame cancel hsf?

That shit would be dope but the start up on bh's super is the main issue i can't test at the moment.

I don't expect that would work. I've been trying to get a consistent hit off of a tag-in, which sets it up about as well as you could ask for, but getting back to the ground and throwing an inferno before they recover from getting hit by Commando is the trick. Doesn't happen much.

i hate to fight mstron with bh/sent/capcom, you spend more time blocking than magneto:bluu:

You should be using Sentinel's drones more than Commando's corridor for your defense. And keep moving, don't ever sit still on the ground, particularly not against this team. Sentinel's drones should be making it very difficult to get any sort of effectiveness out of Tron's assist at all, and if you're defending your space on the ground with BH's pokes and j. fierce demons together with the drones they shouldn't ever have a spot where they just flat out force you to block. If they do, you did something wrong.

I've had a couple of different people try this on me at Lanwerx tourneys in Seattle, and neither case was particularly close, even on the second occasion where I was playing BH like absolute crap.

[DearestHelpless]

What's the best way to play BH/Sent/Capcom against the same team?

I just had this match today, and my BH always seemed to be on the recieving end. My opponent would always be controlling the air. AAA or inferno would wind up in us trading hits. But he would get the upper hand since he would hit me with a sj.HK.

[StiltMan]

Well, there's a pretty simple mindset to start off with in how to