Dynamics of a team: Q&A on multiple teams/ideas

[NinjMai]

With the surplus of team assist threads, I decided that this might aid in helping to decide those incomplete teams.

This thread, for however long it lasts, can serve as a place where you can come and present any characters that you're trying out, and people can comment on their overall team dynamic (if they work good together, can balance themselves, etc.).

Any constructive criticisms are welcome and appreciated.

-NinjMai

[Nigma]

Heylow. ^-^

I was just wondering what the best team for Blackheart would be? I'm trying to get better with my Magneto because he's really weak, so I'm trying to find a substitute for him in the meantime to practice with. I also heard that Blackheart has an assortment of traps/infinites. Just wondering what team would be good with him. :)

[NinjMai]

I'm not a Blackheart player myself, but from what I've seen, Spiral seems to be a good teammate for Blackheart. Her swords can keep a person down enough for Blackheart's AA to corner them. The only other character I can think of would be Sentinel. His drones flying kicks can lock a character down enough for BH's assist to create a shield for Sent.

For combos, the best place to check might be the thread for Blackheart, or someone else might respond with a combo or two. Anyway, hope this helps some.

-NinjMai

[Magnetic Hail]

Who would complement my Sakura/Tron/XXX team in that order ? My IM doesn't feel right in that team.

Who would go good with Morrigan/Chun Li/XXX in that order ? You've told me Doom, I'm just curious about other people's view in this.

[Buck Jones]

For Sakura/Tron, I would consider Storm/Mag (TJ offense + Tron in the back = ouch) or a get-off-me AAA. A power character might be interesting there as well.

I'm not so sure about Morrigan/Chun, at least not right offhand, so I'll hold off on that one & possibly advise in another post after giving it some thought.

Sent goes with anybody; he's like the blue jeans of MvC2. :lol:

[Remy Saotome]

For BH, I would definitely advise Doom. They have a lot of syngergy, both being able to play off the other well. A fairly popular team for a while in the early days of MvC2 was Ice/BH/Doom. Maybe try that. It's still fairly good.

For Sakura/Tron, an AAA would probably be the best way to go. Or Sent. Tron/Sent and Sent/Tron are crazy good. Maybe try Mags/Sak/Tron, too, as Mags/Tron does very well and would build meter quickly so that Dark Sak could come into play earlier.

I hate to say this, but I would suggest not playing Morr/Chun. Both of those characters do much better with a cover assist and a good AAA. If you really feel you must play Morr/Chun/XX, I'd say Sent. Buck Jones is right, Sent goes with anyone. He'd provide cover and could be used as ghetto AA against rushdown.

[hypermegachi]

sent-g and BH go well together too. raining down demons is even more annoying with those drones in your face all the time.

put those 2 with doom and you have one hell of a trap based team!

hmmm spiral/bh/sent might work well too...but then who's gonna blow all the meter? ah well...10% HOD chip is good enough for me =)

[zachdms]

Chun's not really very good on point from what I've seen. But much like Sent goes great with everybody, Tron-Y can do the bonus damage that you need to make low tiers effective. Especially for Chun, who can dash, triple jump, head stomp, ax kick, etc. to advantage of Tron... you can get some horribly slutty winning streaks using Chun/Tron. It's kind of a hilariously scrubby team.

Chun's AA assist goes well with Storm or Mags in particular. Chun doesn't really help Tron, 'cept if maybe you can combo it into Kobun Capture or something weird. :)

Your primary assist should be your third character. Tron-Y is one of the top assists in the game, so it makes the most sense to put her 3rd. You can put her second, but there's only a handful of assists that really do much for her. And if the 3rd character doesn't help her much - swap her back to the 3rd spot where she belongs. After you play her for a while, you'll see that she's good enough solo that you'll actually play a better game if you keep her 3rd and whore her assist for as long as possible.

EDIT Add: And Morrigan/Tron-Y is pretty good too. I like Chun/Tron more, but Morrigan can use her weird air dashes to take advantage of Tron nicely.

[Magnetic Hail]

yeah, I'm thinking of ditching morrigan because I don't want any other chick sharing the spotlight with the CHUNNER. Anyways, I wracked up 5 losses against this guy who used spiderman magneto warmachine. Spiderman should be top tier the way he plays him and dominated everyone O_O.

Mag Sakura Tron sounds good but I'm worried what happens when Tron is standing alone or if I get RTSDed.

I'm trying out Chun Li, Storm, dunno who yet, I'd like to use cyclops or psylocke but I suck with them/don't really like them (even though I use them on teams)so maybe ironman. I lose most of my games because I don't have a solid third character and only use them for their assist :(. Except for Strider Storm Doom :evil:

Other teams I'm going to try out
Captain America/Sent/Cammy
Spiderman/ Jill /Warmachine
Omega Red/ Strider / Doom
Finally but most importantly, Magneto Storm Cammy

[NinjMai]

SEMI-LONG POST ALERT!!

Yeah, Morrigan and Chun are good together, but like I told Magnetic, and as mentioned before, a solid third character is needed. Chun and Morrigan are good together, but they're bad endurance-wise, so if you do decide to stick with the two of them, you'd need a third character that can endure damage pretty well and be a strong backup should Morrigan and Chun-Li not do enough damage together.

A couple of suggestions:

Doom( I already mentioned him)
Sent.( Like Buck said, Sent goes good with nearly everyone.)
Storm...

Actually, Storm does make the most sense as your third character. She balances out Morrigan and Chun slightly well, and with a good DHC super in her Lightning Storm, you can get some good damage in. The order you put your team is up to you, but to suggest:

Morrigan AA/ Storm Proj./ Chun-Li AA

Best to explain...Morrigan is good, and her speed makes her kinda the Capcom version of Magneto. She can air dash left and right, and with Chun's assist, you've got an instant setup for air combos. Morrigan's stamina does not boast all to well for putting her last, especially if you happen to run against a Cable or Cyclops. Storm's spot is determined because of her good DHC. If you can combo her super, it's a guarantee that Chun's Kikou-Shou should follow. Also, Storm needs to be the last character you play with anyway since again, Chun has a harder time dealing with characters alone. Anyways, Chun's AA sets up good for a Hailstorm super, and again, good air combo stuff.

On to Chun-Li. She is not one of the stronger characters on point. It does depend on your team, but to consider these three, she needs to be kept for her assist. With Storm's DHC, you should use it in one major instance: You air combo into Lightning Storm. (For the full effectiveness of this team, Storm should be your final character.)

In the event that Storm dies before you can DHC, then Chun has to have all of her aerial arsenal utilized. She has a variety of aerial evasions, and her headstomp has a lot of priority. There will be difficulty in the fact that usually, a strong character from your opponent remains to fight against Chun, a lower character in the game. I'll post more on Chun if any more questions surface. This post is already long enough as is.

-NinjMai

[Magnetic Hail]

I've been trying out Sakura (Dash) Venom (Expansion) Tron (Projectile) and that team seems good vs the cpu. Gonna test it out on human opponents tommorow along with that morri storm chun team, thanks everyone =D.

One last question, do you think Felicia Megaman Doom would be a good team ? Haven't tried them out but gotta love felicia and mega =D

PS. Read my signature to see teams I'm using and trying out =D

[Buck Jones]

When you're trying to construct these teams, you have to keep in mind what their strengths are and play to them.

I used to try Spiral/Sent/SS for just sheer chip.

Wolvy (either) and Felicia would be great blockstunners I'd imagine, basically trying to work the clock as much as anything else; maybe some Gambit cards on the side to keep it all rolling, with some cute setups if they land.

Maybe it's trap avoidance, maybe it's assist punishing. Odds are decent that they don't play like the familiar few; as you may have figured out by now, everybody doesn't have a quick triangle jump, so the standard 'rush/stomp-that-$h!t-down" mentality may not always be the best approach.

Keeping this in mind will probably do you a lot more personal good than any random advice from random (well-meaning) SRKers regarding characters they might not even play.

[NinjMai]

I never really thought of Megaman as a possible char to use...Megaman would work well with Cammy as an assist. Her cannon spike can protect Megaman from major aerial attacks since Megaman is a small character. I know that Cammy and Felicia have good DHCs (Ex. Felicia's Help the Kitty DHCed into Cammy's KBA is pretty useful.)

Doom might have a good time with Felicia and Megaman since they can both build meter fast, but Felicia's supers are pretty useful, so Doom can't be your meter waster.

My suggestion: Instead of Doom, put Cammy in. If you want to have Doom, then switch him and Cammy. Here's the order to recommend:

Megaman (don't know good assist)/ Cammy AA/ Felicia Ground

Reasoning: Megaman's slight lack of mobility makes him a target to fast rushers like Mags, Storm, and Rogue. Cammy's AA can keep him slightly protected. Just don't get predictable with calling Cammy. Even though she doesn't take bad damage as an assist, she has long recovery and can be an easy prey. Megaman's basic goal is to get as much damage as possible in any means, but mainly, he gets the meter for Felicia and Cammy

Cammy: With the supers from Megaman, you have enough do setup for Cammy's KBA. For a small amount of hits, it takes good damage off. Felicia's assist may or may not have its benefits. Her kitty litter sweep can leave space, but it also leaves her vulnerable. Use Cammy's speed to utilize their attacks on Felicia; in other words, use Felicia as bait if desperate.

Felicia: Cammy should be your final character (Megaman can hold his own, but not as much as Felicia and Cammy), so try to do a DHC by connecting Cammy's Spin Drive Smasher into Felicia's Super Kitty Litter Attack. Felicia has Cammy to somewhat fend off rushers like Megaman had, but with Cammy's lesser life, she can't be called out as much. Felicia has good throws, so throw when you get the chance (Her scratches can gain up to 2 meters of executed right).

Overall synopsis: This team has its drawbacks. It can't fare well against keepaways, especially a running Storm. None of them, with the exeception of Cammy, can get high enough to reach her. Felicia, like Morrigan, doesn't take damage well, so you have to use caution with her.

-NinjMai

EDIT: Buck's right. We can say our ideas and views, but ultimately, the characters you want to use and choose to develop are your choice. How you play your people depends on you. All our comments and criticisms are positive, but you can choose what to and not to incorporate into your own way of playing.

From a personal view, I play Air style, so my opinions about characters will be slightly different from someone who mostly plays ground rushdown or keepaway. In the end, all you need is common understanding. That is the best advice a person can give you.

[Remy Saotome]

I must disagree with all this Felicia talk. As one of the most knowledgable Felicia players on SRK, most of what was said about her is misinformation. Felicia/MM would not make a good team. They're both primarily builders. Yes, Felicia uses meter, but she builds it even faster than she burns it (especially if you learn how to use her fp throw and airthrow correctly). With extensive Felicia usage, I've come to the conclusion that the best Felicia teams are either:
Felicia/cover assist/AAA
Felicia/Tron/AAA
Felicia/cover assist/Tron

I play Felicia/Tron/Sent, in case you wanted to know.

EDIT: And the assists. All of Felicia's assists are pretty much ass, plain and simple. If you're attempting to counter StriDoom, use Ground. That way she can still stuff Doom for you even when she isn't on point. In all other situations, I suggest variety. This is b/c variety leaves her vulnerable for the shortest period, and has a weird hitbox which can be used for a bit of surprise/wakeup. But really they all suck.

[Augmint]

Originally posted by Nigma
Heylow. ^-^

I was just wondering what the best team for Blackheart would be? I'm trying to get better with my Magneto because he's really weak, so I'm trying to find a substitute for him in the meantime to practice with. I also heard that Blackheart has an assortment of traps/infinites. Just wondering what team would be good with him. :)

BH goes well with Sent ( drones & j.HP covers alot of the screen), Doom (massive chip with Inferno XXHOD and protects against people push blocking then jumping out), Cyclops sets up his infinite easily.
Other good assists/team members include Commando AAA ,storm,Cable to burn all that meter, Tron (proj) - great assist punisher and she doesn't stay out all that long on the screen after the rings come out.

Good teams -

BH/Sentinel/Cyclops

BH/Cable/Doom

BH/Sentinel/Tron
etc..

[Magnetic Hail]

Yeah I guess that was my problem, couldn't figure out what I wanted from each team. I blame the game for having so many characters :( . From now on, no more asking about if this or so teams are good. :cool:

I think that megaman can burn some meter on his supers even if they don't cause massive damage, just hearing his voice is enough to annoy :evil: ,not to mention his assist.:lol:

[Buck Jones]

Originally posted by Magnetic Hail
From now on, no more asking about if this or so teams are good. :cool:



That wasn't really what I was going for with my post.

It's OK to discuss teams, people have different styles and approaches so you never know what you can learn (or from whom).

It just seems like a lot of people want to get totally walked through on that, like they can't or won't come up with the basics.

The way I see it, if somebody has to tell you exactly who to play, provide the "how?" and then, on top of all that, give your game purpose with the "why?", then that's pretty sad.... might as well just go grab a Team PopularAsF*ck & roll..... :lol:

But that's just me.

[Magnetic Hail]

Well I have a tourney tommorow, going with strider sent doom first then chun li sakura tron then one of my mags or storm teams. Wish me luck !

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Team Dynamics is VERY SIMPLE IS MVC2....here are what the teams should look like (yes, every team in some shape form or another should resemble this)

battery/person who uses the meter/appropriate assist

duo that has a DHC that will demolish a single character/appropriate assist

ex: storm/sent/commando is the the most widely recognized team that uses that formation.

[hypermegachi]

spiral/cable/sent was a very good team for the battery/user/assist as a concept....what happened to that team? it used to be so good!

[Buck Jones]

Spiral = requires a lot of work, as well as good sticks.... often referred to as "Spiral/Strider syndrome".

Good luck, Magnetic Hail.... :)

[Remy Saotome]

Originally posted by 50mOrEcEnTz
Team Dynamics is VERY SIMPLE IS MVC2....here are what the teams should look like (yes, every team in some shape form or another should resemble this)

battery/person who uses the meter/appropriate assist

duo that has a DHC that will demolish a single character/appropriate assist
That's not neccessarily true. Some teams involve a group of three chars which all work well on point off the other two assists. For instance, my Sim/Sent/Guile team. Any of those three work well on point with the other two assists helping them out. Other times people play a single point char where both assists are intended almost entirely for helping the point char. Also, sometimes people start the primary assist in the middle slot for initial DHC reasons. And sometimes there's no clear battery/burner pairing, such as on Sent/Cable/AAA teams.

And GL, Mag Hail. Let us know how you do.

[hypermegachi]

Originally posted by Buck Jones
Spiral = requires a lot of work, as well as good sticks.... often referred to as "Spiral/Strider syndrome".

Good luck, Magnetic Hail.... :)

really? i thought infinite crazy magnetos and fast fly sentinels also needed good sticks...

[Buck Jones]

Not really, at least not for real-world, simple yet effective type stuff that you're likely to see in a tourney. The flashy stuff, maybe.

The sheer number of knife load iterations Spiral has to do introduces plenty of opportunites to screw up. Strider suffers more from having "too many" moves, often giving you a wall grab or something like that at the most inopportune moment.

Still viable, both of them, just less margin for error than many are comfortable with.... or at least that's what I personally derive from their steady decline over Marvel's lifespan.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Originally posted by Remy Saotome
That's not neccessarily true. Some teams involve a group of three chars which all work well on point off the other two assists. For instance, my Sim/Sent/Guile team. Any of those three work well on point with the other two assists helping them out. Other times people play a single point char where both assists are intended almost entirely for helping the point char. Also, sometimes people start the primary assist in the middle slot for initial DHC reasons. And sometimes there's no clear battery/burner pairing, such as on Sent/Cable/AAA teams.

And GL, Mag Hail. Let us know how you do. sent/cable/AAA teams fall into the battery/burner/appropriate assist....if you burn ur meter w/sentinel good luck winning on a consistant basis...

and btw, i am talkin about teams you would play in a tourny...not like a team that is just for fun.

[Magnetic Hail]

I passed first two round with great success/luck, round one best of 3 won 2-0 by strider storm doom, round two best of 3 won 2-1 , round 3 best of 3 lost 2-0 badly to Magneto Blackheart Cyclops / HIGH HIGH LEVEL MAGNETO. loser bracket lost 2-1 to team scrub. Didn't bother checking where I was ranked but damn, first time I've seen a high level magneto, I swear at one point, I didn't know if I was playing or watching a combo video. And the guy's blackheart is MAD CRAZY. Didn't do too well but it was fun and learned some tips from the pros and watching crazy sakura/bison/vega a groove combos in CvS2. The sole game I won in losers bracket, I was using my sakura/venom/tron team. it was technically 2-0 therefor I was eliminated but I played again for fun since the dude for the next match up was in the bathroom, doing his stuff and I actually won. not an official score but I like to think 2-1 =)

Anyways, I say play any team you want as long as each three characters benefit from one another =)


I'm sooo learning blackheart now :evil:

[hypermegachi]

Originally posted by Buck Jones
Not really, at least not for real-world, simple yet effective type stuff that you're likely to see in a tourney. The flashy stuff, maybe.

The sheer number of knife load iterations Spiral has to do introduces plenty of opportunites to screw up. Strider suffers more from having "too many" moves, often giving you a wall grab or something like that at the most inopportune moment.

Still viable, both of them, just less margin for error than many are comfortable with.... or at least that's what I personally derive from their steady decline over Marvel's lifespan.

don't know about you...but i find the HCB to reload swords not so bad, and once you get the spiral/sent trap timing down it's fairly easy to pull off consistently.

strider...yes you can screw up all the time.

but for spiral, the HCB is really the only problem, and i think it's easier to do the HCB to load swords only, rather than trying to HCF from a lightning attack, or doom+ HCB hypergrab xx tempest.

even old school magnetos with hypergrab xx tempest combos i think is harder to pull off than a simple spiral sword reload.

her teleport is so easy as heck you'd have to be a dumbass to screw that up.

personally i think less people are using spiral because she seems limited in what she can do. magneto storm and sentinel have so many combos and shit, but spiral...all she has is 2 sword traps. not much variety at all....

[Nigma]

Thanks a lot for the advice NinjMai and Magntic Hail! ^ ^

I just need a little help on Storm (Proj.)/Sentinel (Ground)/Cable (AAA) now... I've been putting Storm on point and Sent second for a long time, is that the best setup for my team? Cable's just been giving me a hard time because he lags so much from the ground HVB that I DHC in from Sent's HSF... any advice on that?

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Originally posted by Nigma
Thanks a lot for the advice NinjMai and Magntic Hail! ^ ^

I just need a little help on Storm (Proj.)/Sentinel (Ground)/Cable (AAA) now... I've been putting Storm on point and Sent second for a long time, is that the best setup for my team? Cable's just been giving me a hard time because he lags so much from the ground HVB that I DHC in from Sent's HSF... any advice on that? storm/sentinel/cable is almost ALWAYS the best setup for that team, matter of fact, i'd say 100% of the time. (somebody is going to question this, whateva, the ONLY justifiable situation is when somebody has sentinel first, lets say a team scrub, and you want to go sent vs sent then storm vs cable, thas a better matchup for you than storm vs sent then sent vs cable, hope ur following me...if your bold you can start cable vs sent, but then that would leave your sent vs their cable, only difference is their cable will be loaded...the plus to starting yours out is that IF your cable outlasts his sentinel that you can try and GB his cable....all of this is based on the ever popular team scrub)....anyways, here are some ways to get cable in....

-rh drones, tag in
-if you hit them with an HSF and just want cable in real bad, then just tag in, either they roll, and don't get hit, and you get in safely, or they don't roll, get hit, and you get in safely
-when DHC'ing with cable, aim the beam as far down as possible, if you do it correctly, they will be getting hit on the groud in essence as an otg, and a roll will be forced, therefore, making cable safe
-and as always, his alpha counter is too good

[Remy Saotome]

Originally posted by hypermegachi
don't know about you...but i find the HCB to reload swords not so bad, and once you get the spiral/sent trap timing down it's fairly easy to pull off consistently.
Well, I agree with the fact that sword loads are easy... But there're ways out of the Spiral traps.
pushblocking=too good
I've seen a few really crazy Spirals that didn't even use the traps, though. Good shit.

Originally posted by 50mOrEcEnTz
sent/cable/AAA teams fall into the battery/burner/appropriate assist....if you burn ur meter w/sentinel good luck winning on a consistant basis...

and btw, i am talkin about teams you would play in a tourny...not like a team that is just for fun. Cable/Sent w/o meter is still pretty viable on point. Yes, Cable's best option is AHVBxN, but he does have other options. And I would honestly take Sim/Sent/Guile to a tourney. And I've seen a few peeps play Mags/Psy/Tron seriously, Mags being their only point man.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Originally posted by Remy Saotome
Well, I agree with the fact that sword loads are easy... But there're ways out of the Spiral traps.
pushblocking=too good
I've seen a few really crazy Spirals that didn't even use the traps, though. Good shit.

Cable/Sent w/o meter is still pretty viable on point. Yes, Cable's best option is AHVBxN, but he does have other options. And I would honestly take Sim/Sent/Guile to a tourney. And I've seen a few peeps play Mags/Psy/Tron seriously, Mags being their only point man. cable/sent is viable on point when cable doesn't have meter AND SENT HAS HEALTH...if cable has no meter and calls out a sent with 1/4 life...good luck...