Complete Rock Thread

[UCRJesse]

this is eventually going to be the complete "how-to" guide to rock since most of the other threads are dead.... I'm gonna edit this first post often so check back for updates.

The Only Moves you need to know

standing roundhouse
one of the best anti-air moves in the game. If anyone jumps at you throw this out. There are very few moves that will even trade let alone beat this move.

jumping roundhouse
one of the best jump-in moves in the game. It is very hard to anti-air but it should not be abused because it doesn't cross up. His best move to low jump with

jumping short
his best air to air move, but it's better to just stay on the ground and standing roundhouse them.

crouching strong
Rock's other anti-air, it's not as good as s. rh, but it is useful in stopping cross ups and setting up his 360 throw

jab and strong elbows (qcb jab or qcb strong)
his best spacing and advancing moves. These elbows are safe when blocked at certain ranges, good pressuring move, good anti-air when roll cancelled, good for out of range poking battles

rage run shift (qcb rh)
the ONLY rage run you should use. There are no instances when it's a good idea to use the other 2. (will write more later, need to go to ihop)

short crack counter (qcf jab)
Counters jump ins and special moves... does not counter supers so don't try it. This move is not to be used as anti-air as you have 3 perfectly good anti-airs that provide guaranteed damage. The only real use is to stop roll canceled moves such as sakura's hurricane kick. The other 2 counters are ok, but not all that useful considering you can usually counterpoke instead of countering.

reppuken (qcf jab or qcf strong)
your all purpose zoning fireball, it's good but not abusable. It's a very valuable tool against characters with no just defend or good roll like cammy. double reppuken is usually not worth it. There is only one situation where double repukken is useful and it's a roll cancelled point blank one that you do when they wake up... Even still not very good.

jab rising tackle (hold down for 2 seconds, up jab)
your only non-super wakeup move. Will not beat air attacks but will sometimes stuff ground attacks. Basically... If they are jumping at you while you're knocked down, don't do this move because it probably won't work... it is a horrible anti-air move, decent for ground to ground. Anyways, don't do wake up moves anyways cause you'll die.

Combos
UNDER CONSTRUCTION

If they whiff a dragon punch/laggy move/dizzy-
j. rh, c. jab, s. rh, qcb fierce
or j. rh, s. rh, qcb fierce
the second combo does not contain any links, and is much easier to hit. If you don't want to mess up, use the second combo.

Rock's close standing roundhouse goes over small characters who are crouching. If you land a jumping rh, then use..
j. rh, c. jab, s. fierce, qcb fierce
or j. rh, s. fierce, qcb fierce

If you have a super in this situation
(p/s/k/n)j. rh, c. jab, s. rh (or fierce if they are crouching), lvl. 3 shine knuckle
(c)j. rh, c. jab, s. rh, lvl 2 shine knuckle, lvl 1 shine knuckle (or qcb jab if you only have 2 levels. In the corner do fierce rising tackle instead of qcb jab)
or for an easier c-groove combo

(c) j. rh, c. rh, lvl 2 raging storm, lvl 1 raging storm
(a)activate, c. fierce x 4, c. rh, qcb strong, s. rh, qcb strong x 2 (opponent in corner), fierce rising tackle, qcf qcf punch. (if you have time, put a s. rh in before the qcf qcf punch to ground yourself and make the combo easier)

good combos for different situations

(p,s,n,k) low jump rh, deadly rave (hcb,f, short, then jab jab short short strong forward fierce roundhouse, qcb fierce)
this is much better then low jump rh, shine knuckle because it is safe if blocked and is usually easier to land.

if they block the deadly rave, stop the chain after pressing forward and do a qcb rh, 360 throw, break by tapping 3 punches, qcb fierce.

off of a midscreen 360. Most damage without a super is
360 p, tap 3 punches to break stun, fierce elbow (qcb fierce)
if you have a lvl 3 super midscreen
360 p, tap 3 punches to break, lvl 3 shine knuckle
this works especially well in k groove while you are raged





Groove Specifics and Advantages
C-Groove Rock has a lot of tools at his disposal. The ability to quickly build meter up to lvl 2 and the ability to store a lvl 3 super are probably his best attributes. in combos always use lvl 2 supers since they end up in the best damage for your meter. Lvl 3 shine knuckle takes off a lot less then lvl 2 into lvl 1. Since you can sit on lvl 3 supers, the 360 throw, cancel stun, lvl 3 shine knuckle adds a lot to his game. Rock has a really fast dash that can be easily followed up by a 360 into super. if you've conditioned the opponent to know that dash 360 is an option, they may start trying to reactionary jab you once you get into range to dash throw. Once this happens they're going to get hit with a lot more sweeps since the damn thing comes out so fast. The c-groove hop also gives you the option of jumping over knocked down characters. Not abusable but a good enough mix up.

A-Groove Rock has a lot of c-groove rock's tools but the damage potential is not as high. his basic a groove combo is,

c. forward, c. fierce x3, fierce elbow, cancel the first hit with c. fierce x 7, repeat until end of combo then do sweep raging storm or just shine knuckle

if they block the c. fierces, then you have a free mixup between overhead (toward +forward) and run through 360, break 360, fierce hard edge, standing roundhouse, strong hard edge to corner then do some corner combo bullshit into super.

dash activate is good

P-Rock is good but doesn't have any real advantages over any other p groove characters. Solid, a few of the same tactics as c groove rock but you don't build meter very fast. Losing his roll isn't a bad thing since his roll sucks so much

will update when i have time

[trag]

rage run shift (qcb rh)
the ONLY rage run you should use. There are no instances when it's a good idea to use the other 2.

Actually, I switch up between QCB+LK and QCB+MK all the time. People learn to expect the overhead so I switch up to QCB+MK and grab them as they stand up (expecting the overhead). QCB+MK is especially useful in A-Groove when in CC mode. I usually do QCB+LK when they block, then go into c.LK's to keep Rock safe... every once in a while it's a good idea to QCB+MK and grab. The Shift doesn't work as well because the opponent realizes theres no overhead coming (after the Shift runs through them).

[ThE CRoW]

wheres the combos?

[vasAZNion13]

Originally posted by ThE CRoW
wheres the combos?

lol yea

well...i dunno if this was mentioned in previous rock threads...but here's something like i to do

when i get them into deadly rave(from combo or not) instead of doing the fierce xxhardedge at the end, i sometimes do fierce, run/shift, 360, hardedge

if they opponent is gonna zone out while i beat them with deadly rave, might as well do a lil more damage if i can...

[UCRJesse]

Originally posted by ThE CRoW
wheres the combos?

not finished with the post yet... if i get a break from the girlfriend today i'll update and finish it

[ThE CRoW]

..the girlfriend? i thought you had a bf, the av kinda fools yah

[Mr_Anderson]

I'll post his combos since i was fucking around with him today

BnB's

c.lk, c.lp, c.mk, qcb+hp

c.lp, c.hp, qcb+hp

360 -> laser

360 -> laser -> rising tackle (corner)

Combos

360 -> laser -> lvl2 shine knuckle -> Rising tackle or Raging storm

360 -> laser -> lvl2 Raging storm -> rising tackle -> Raging storm

c.lk, c.lp, lvl2 Shine Knuckle xx raging storm / Rising tackle


Mixups

after knock down qcb + lk (overhead)

after knock down or hp throw, qcb + hk when they wake up 360 grab.

360 -> laser -> s.mp -> qcb + lk

360 -> laser -> c.mp -> qcb + hk 360 -> laser -> Rising tackle / raging storm / shine knuckle.

Custom Combos

c.hp x3, c.hk, [s.hk, qcb +hp] x2 or 3, rising tackle, raging storm

[s.hp x3, qcb +hp] until meter runs out xx shine knuckle (timing is weird)

[corner] 360 -> laser -> activate s.hp, c.hp, rising tackle x 2 or 3, qcb +hp xx raging storm.

[midscreen] 360 (cancel it) activate qcb +hp x2 s.hk qcb +hp, rising tackle x 1 or 2, xx raging storm.


Forget the other grooves.

[RagingStormX]

You do realize that the FP rising tackle can wake-up on anything, cannot be air blocked deep, and has amazing priority, it's a great anti-air unlike Terry's. the other 2 suck ass.

[ThE CRoW]

what do you guys mean by wake up?

[RagingStormX]

After being knocked down and you attack as soon as you get up ( dp, super ) is a wake-up attack.

[vasAZNion13]

Originally posted by RagingStormX
After being knocked down and you attack as soon as you get up ( dp, super ) is a wake-up attack.

does't rising tackle often push them away after the first couple hits or so?

everytime i do rising tackle...they get thrown away and i did crap damage for the risk i took...

[Rochus]

the coolest shit in the world...for run grooves

is run xx 360...funniest shit ever...not command run or nothin...just forward forward xx 360

lots of uses too...use ur heads

rock is a straight up gangster

all damage efficiency dudes should note that 360.p xx qcb.mp does more than laser...u gotta time it tho...it looks wierd but its easy

watch out when using c.mk some people can beat ass after that on the free tip (bison and rog come to mind)

[eightysix]

Here's what I like to do in dash grooves:

Sweep > Ground Crossup > S.Fierce, MP Reppuken.

You might wanna mix it up by just doing a S.Fierce in case your opponent tries to roll. Then you can just throw them out of it.

[OneDumbG00k]

Some people will swear by him in K, N, or A grooves. But I prefer C groove. Lvl2 gauge is a great deterrent (who doesn't fear his Raising Storm?) and his super-cancel from a lvl 2 Raising Storm into fp Rising Tackle tacks on a decent amount of damage. I personally never super-cancel into a lvl 1 Raising Storm. I think its a waste of meter that could better be saved for charging quickly back up to lvl 2. He doesn't truly need airblock, since his air-to-ground RH and his air-to-air mk are quite good, but against dp happy peepz it doesn't hurt.

I personally find Rock's dashing to be quite helpful. It's fast and has good distance. You can throw a lp Rebukken from nearly across the screen and dash twice and you'll be within st. mp distance. I also like crossing it up and mixing it up. For instance, after a cr. RH sweep, I'll dash twice and crossup the dead body. If its not a dp character, I will start off with a meaty close range st.mp > cr. mk > lp Rebukken. All of this links, so if he manages to block it, its still decent guard damage. If he gets hit the st. mp > cr. mk comboes. However, the lp Rebukken does not,... I just like throwing it out there as a mixup.

I like switching lp Rebukken with the lp Hard Edge only because against some strong pokers like Sagat, Blanka and Chun... the distance you're left at after a blocked lp Hard Edge usually gives your opponent the advantage. Sure, you can try and cr. RH sweep if they're slow, but if they're not, you're kinda stuck. Jumping's not an option against dp characters, rolling sure aint and dashing back will guarantee you eating a cr. fp from Sagat. The lp Rebukken off a cr. mk is quite fast even though it doesn't combo and will keep you at a good distance. So unless I'm positive the lp Hard Edge will combo, like during a jump-in combo, I tend to stick with lp Rebbuken off the cr. mk. Just my style.

But even on this simple crossup I like to change this up and instead of the above-mentioned poking string, crossup the dead body with dash, then immediately qcb+RH Teleport to crossup yet again and 360 Throw. It looks stylish to me and works on dp characters.

BTW, anyone know the recovery frames off a Rage Teleport? I mean, just how long does it take to fully recover without doing the 360 throw?

EDIT: Oh... one more thing. Another reason I prefer C over A is the difference between having a Lvl 2 Raising Storm vs. CC capability. Again, airblock is quite menial in my comparison. Most CC's will come off of 360 throw cancels or CC activate > cr. mk to blow through pokes or jump-ins. However, you can throw in Lvl 2 Raising Storm into those equations with super cancel and it's pretty even damage wise. Plus, keeping a lvl 2 Raising Storm stocked does wonders on your opponent's mind. That's why I pick C over A.

[Kamui]

Originally posted by OneDumbG00k
I personally find Rock's dashing to be quite helpful. It's fast and has good distance. You can throw a lp Rebukken from nearly across the screen and dash twice and you'll be within st. mp distance. I also like crossing it up and mixing it up. For instance, after a cr. RH sweep, I'll dash twice and crossup the dead body. If its not a dp character, I will start off with a meaty close range st.mp > cr. mk > lp Rebukken. All of this links, so if he manages to block it, its still decent guard damage. If he gets hit the st. mp > cr. mk comboes. However, the lp Rebukken does not,... I just like throwing it out there as a mixup.

Standing MP whiffs on most crouching characters, Im thinking probably about 90% of the cast, making it largely worthless. Close standing MP--> Low MK also does not link normally, unless stand MP is done a little meaty to hit late, which is fairly hard for a move that deosnt stay out for very long. Its also impossible for MP to hit that late if your spending time dashing to the other side of a character on wake up(unless maybe they slow get up?). Finally, although you mention it below, low forward--> LP Reppu ken deosnt combo. Its very roll-able, and Rock's Reppu ken has no shortage of recovery. They roll, you lose some life. You would be better off canceling into a MP Reppu ken to make the roll-able gap smaller, or canceling into nothing at all.

Originally posted by OneDumbG00k

I like switching lp Rebukken with the lp Hard Edge only because against some strong pokers like Sagat, Blanka and Chun... the distance you're left at after a blocked lp Hard Edge usually gives your opponent the advantage. Sure, you can try and cr. RH sweep if they're slow, but if they're not, you're kinda stuck. Jumping's not an option against dp characters, rolling sure aint and dashing back will guarantee you eating a cr. fp from Sagat. The lp Rebukken off a cr. mk is quite fast even though it doesn't combo and will keep you at a good distance. So unless I'm positive the lp Hard Edge will combo, like during a jump-in combo, I tend to stick with lp Rebbuken off the cr. mk. Just my style.


crouching forward--> Lp hard edge from that range deosnt combo vs 90% of the cast.

If someone blocks a Hard Edge from max distance, you can still crack counter attempts to take advantage of your frame disadvantage.

[MegaZangief]

Anti Air custom... Activate, Trip/rising tackle, s.RH, qcb LP, s.RH, qcb LP, repeat till corner, rising tackle, s.rh, raging storm...

[Gamma Ray]

Probably already knwo this, but i was screwing around with P Rock..came up with a nice li'l (approx.) 8500 dmg combo. j.rh, s.rh, mp hard edge, raising storm. I like it ^_^

[eightysix]

Originally posted by Gamma Ray
Probably already knwo this, but i was screwing around with P Rock..came up with a nice li'l (approx.) 8500 dmg combo. j.rh, s.rh, mp hard edge, raising storm. I like it ^_^

Hm, I just tried that and it doesn't work. Are you sure there wasn't combo link?

[Admiral Akbar]

Originally posted by Gamma Ray
Probably already knwo this, but i was screwing around with P Rock..came up with a nice li'l (approx.) 8500 dmg combo. j.rh, s.rh, mp hard edge, raising storm. I like it ^_^

ITS FUCKING EO!

So doesnt work in any version besides GC and Xbox. This kinda stuff happens so often, it hurts my head.

[Gamma Ray]

I dont use EO....or an EX groove...-shrug-.......i just did it again...maybe it's not an EO-ism thing, but just somehting they changes in the entire game itself.

[OneDumbG00k]

Originally posted by Kamui
Standing MP whiffs on most crouching characters, Im thinking probably about 90% of the cast, making it largely worthless. Not against Sagat. Plus it cleanly beats out his and Blanka's cr. fp's. I think its very underused. Experiment with it. Its a good move to whiff and charge meter while dashing around to position yourself. Use it in a poking war against Sagat and you'll start to see how this punch is extremely effective. After all, if Sagat is poking, what're you gonna do? Rebukken? Counter on reaction? Jump? Roll? No,... its either cr. RH or mixup game or this. Try it out when your messing around next time against Sagat. If you want to do some easy guard damage in close and your worried that your lp Hard Edge is not distanced properly and you'll leave yourself open after a cr. mk, lp Hard Edge try this simple poking string in close: cr. lkX3, st. mp. It will link. I may be overstating its usefulness but that may only be because I fight a Sagat every 2 out of 3 matches. I'm sure you guys do too.

Close standing MP--> Low MK also does not link normally, unless stand MP is done a little meaty to hit late, which is fairly hard for a move that deosnt stay out for very long. Its also impossible for MP to hit that late if your spending time dashing to the other side of a character on wake up(unless maybe they slow get up?).First off, it links everytime, it comboes everytime the st. mp connects too. Tested time and again on X-Box. It looks extremely deceptive and when they block the st. mp up close, the cr. mk shoots out relatively fast and will catch some people who try to retaliate after blocking your st. mp. Also, the close standing mp which resembles an elbow has very few startup frames, so yeah, you can pull it off after a dash crossup as easily as you could a cr. mk. Again, test it out on Sagat.

Finally, although you mention it below, low forward--> LP Reppu ken deosnt combo. Its very roll-able, and Rock's Reppu ken has no shortage of recovery. They roll, you lose some life. You would be better off canceling into a MP Reppu ken to make the roll-able gap smaller, or canceling into nothing at all.All true. However, most people don't roll through it unless they expect it. Not much rolling at all in the arcades. But yeah, mp is much better.

crouching forward--> Lp hard edge from that range deosnt combo vs 90% of the cast. I'm not sure what your smoking buddy. After a jumpng RH, this will hit everyone from Sagat to Athena. Again, test it if you have CVS2 at home. I know because I use Rock in Survival for practice and use this a lot against everyone from Beni, to Gief to Yuri. You may be missing the timing which isn't very tight, its not like you have to buffer or anything to get this 3 hit combo goin.
Originally posted by MegaZangief
Anti Air custom... Activate, Trip/rising tackle, s.RH, qcb LP, s.RH, qcb LP, repeat till corner, rising tackle, s.rh, raging storm... You have to be very quick on the lp Hard Edge off the st. RH for this to work. Use mp Hard Edge instead. Much less room for error since it moves you farther ahead.

I don't usually trip them for my anti-air CC. I try to glue them down with cr. mk when they land: Activate CC and cr. mk, cr. fpX7, cr. RH, st. RH, qcb+mp, st. RH, qcb+mp, fp Rising Tackle, lp Rising Tackle, Raging Storm. Trust me, the cr. fp's will combo off the cr. mk. You can also use this to blow through pokers or nail rollers. This is one of the most damaging ones other than the ones off a 360 throw.
Originally posted by Gamma Ray
I dont use EO....or an EX groove...-shrug-.......i just did it again...maybe it's not an EO-ism thing, but just somehting they changes in the entire game itself. I'm taking a wild guess and thinkin you're playing on X-Box. On X-Box, the P groove has special cancels. In other words, you can cancel any special move into a Super. It's not EO, its something Capcom added in to make P-groove more competitive. To be honest, its realllly cheap. Every time you connect a Rekka with Iori, you can cancel the last hit into his Maiden Masher. Every time you connect a lp. dp with Ryu, you can cancel into a ShinHadouken. Everytime you connect a fp Hard Edge, you can cancel into any of Rock's Supers. The Special doesn't even have to hit... the guy could've blocked your special move and you can shoot out a Super without worrying about recovery frames off your blocked move. One of my bro's favorite P-Rock mixups was a blatant close range fp Hard Edge. The guy blocks both hits, and then tries to punish sicne everyone knows a blocked fp Hard Edge has horrible recovery time. But with P-Rock, you can bust out a Raising Storm at any time without waiting for your recovery, so whoever tries to punish will get tagged by the full Raising Storm. Gets people on X-Box Live all the time. Doesn't work in the arcade though and neither does your combo.

[Kamui]

Originally posted by OneDumbG00k
Not against Sagat. Plus it cleanly beats out his and Blanka's cr. fp's. I think its very underused. Experiment with it. Its a good move to whiff and charge meter while dashing around to position yourself. Use it in a poking war against Sagat and you'll start to see how this punch is extremely effective. After all, if Sagat is poking, what're you gonna do? Rebukken? Counter on reaction? Jump? Roll? No,... its either cr. RH or mixup game or this. Try it out when your messing around next time against Sagat. If you want to do some easy guard damage in close and your worried that your lp Hard Edge is not distanced properly and you'll leave yourself open after a cr. mk, lp Hard Edge try this simple poking string in close: cr. lkX3, st. mp. It will link. I may be overstating its usefulness but that may only be because I fight a Sagat every 2 out of 3 matches. I'm sure you guys do too.

The instance I replied to was in reference of a combo you posted, close stand strong--> low forward, not stand strong as a poke. Stand strong whiffs vs most characters, In wake up situations someone is always going to be crouching. If it only works against a certain portion of of the cast, please mention such next time.


Originally posted by OneDumbG00k
First off, it links everytime, it comboes everytime the st. mp connects too. Tested time and again on X-Box. It looks extremely deceptive and when they block the st. mp up close, the cr. mk shoots out relatively fast and will catch some people who try to retaliate after blocking your st. mp. Also, the close standing mp which resembles an elbow has very few startup frames, so yeah, you can pull it off after a dash crossup as easily as you could a cr. mk. Again, test it out on Sagat.

Im not trying to sound rude but, stand strong--> low forward DOES NOT LINK. Unless you have counter hit on in training mode, or your doing the move early on wake up, this deosnt normally link. Not only have I personally tried it, but I have the frame data sitting in front of me. Standing jab and low strong link(vs large crouching characters) after standing close strong, but not low forward.


Originally posted by OneDumbG00k
I'm not sure what your smoking buddy. After a jumpng RH, this will hit everyone from Sagat to Athena. Again, test it if you have CVS2 at home. I know because I use Rock in Survival for practice and use this a lot against everyone from Beni, to Gief to Yuri. You may be missing the timing which isn't very tight, its not like you have to buffer or anything to get this 3 hit combo goin.
You have to be very quick on the lp Hard Edge off the st. RH for this to work. Use mp Hard Edge instead. Much less room for error since it moves you farther ahead.

Again, this was in referance to the earlier combo you posted above, close stand close strong, low forward. From that range, jab hard edge deosnt combo vs most characters.

[cheese_master]

Just something to think about since most people didn't mention it... his command grab can be RCed in C and A groove. I don't play C groove Rock much, but A groove Rock intrigues me. I think in CCs with cr FPs blocked, its always good to RC his command throw since some people may be mashing on jab to stop the resets, this way you go right through. Also with K groove, if you aren't going to hit with your super, and its about to run out, cr MK into deadly rave with a slow ass timing to all the hits will make they block it all, and don't do the fb motion ending unless you know you will GB them, after that, you can do some different mixups... but the super takes a chunk of their guard bar, Although they can AC it.

[UCRJesse]

Originally posted by cheese_master
Just something to think about since most people didn't mention it... his command grab can be RCed in C and A groove. I don't play C groove Rock much, but A groove Rock intrigues me. I think in CCs with cr FPs blocked, its always good to RC his command throw since some people may be mashing on jab to stop the resets, this way you go right through. Also with K groove, if you aren't going to hit with your super, and its about to run out, cr MK into deadly rave with a slow ass timing to all the hits will make they block it all, and don't do the fb motion ending unless you know you will GB them, after that, you can do some different mixups... but the super takes a chunk of their guard bar, Although they can AC it.

no reason to rc 360 throw... it's good enough without it and you don't get any real benefits considering what could happen if you fuck up....oh, and if you do cr. fp and cancel that into 360, it's going to whiff anyways so theres no point in rc'ing it... if you want to be dirty, then rc a high crack counter from point blank and then do the 360

[OneDumbG00k]

Originally posted by Kamui
Im not trying to sound rude but, stand strong--> low forward DOES NOT LINK. Unless you have counter hit on in training mode, or your doing the move early on wake up, this deosnt normally link. Not only have I personally tried it, but I have the frame data sitting in front of me. Standing jab and low strong link(vs large crouching characters) after standing close strong, but not low forward.

Hrmm... I will test it out. I do use the close st. mp seldomly and not as often as you might think (the way I'm talking about it and defending it), but nobody seems to use it and I find it useful in certain situations to keep Rock a little more diversified. I've seen many Rock's just do jumping RH's, cr. mk > lp/mp Hard Edge and cr. rh's and do nothing else in the damn match. That kind of Rock is much too predictable.

Having said that, I do use close st. mp a lot against computer in Survival and it could be that I am counter-hitting every close st. mp I get since the computer would be stupid enough to be counter-hit everytime. However, please do not confuse the st. mp > cr. mk as a link. Remember, its close st. mp > cr. mk that I've espoused as a link and a 2-hit combo. But who knows, I'll go to training mode and see whether I can confirm or reject this.

BTW, you don't sound rude at all. You're the most polite critic on these forums.

[OneDumbG00k]

I've confirmed it. You were right, st. mp > cr. mk only comboes when the st. mp is a counter-hit. Good call.

BTW, anyone got any good C-Groove Cancels with Rock? Other than a point-blank Lvl 2 Raising Storm into fp. Rising Tackle, I can't find much else that's practical. I also have a hella hard time cancelling his Screaming Eagle (qcf X2+k) Super. Unless I'm in the corner and the guy has bounced up can I cancel it. But midscreen and I can't cancel anything...

I would mainly like special move cancels as the Lvl 2 Raising Storm > Lvl 1 Raising Storm/ Lvl 1 Screaming Eagle are obvious standouts. Are there any good cancels akin to Chun-Li's or Akuma's???

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

360 throw, laser blast, stand hk, qcfX2+mp, qcf+k, stand hk, qcfX2+p

[No D]

:eek:

[OneDumbG00k]

You're a genius. I never would have thought to cancel the Lvl 2 into a quick recovery whiff like his lk counter. Now I have something to play around with. Thx!

BTW, You sound like you're cancelling the Laser Blast and tapping PPP so that you're free to do the st. RH when he's bouncing in the air. That's the move I always use also other than a Lvl 1 Raising Storm. But I never thought to do a Lvl 2 Raising Storm after the st. RH,... I didn't think it would connect,... although now I think of it, your opponent will bounce up high in the air and supers are unblockable in the air...

Also, you can cancel a Raising Storm off a cr.RH, right? So why not make a variation of your combo:

360 throw, Full Laser Blast (must hit as early as possible so your cr. RH will connect), cr. RH > Lvl 2 Raising Storm, qcf+lk, st. RH, Lvl 1 Raising Storm

I guess it would be hella hard to do, but I can't think of any time when a cr. RH > Raising Storm would be more practical, since you know you're gonna hit the cr. RH off the Laser Blast.

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

No you dun cancle the laser blast it still hits.


Its acctualy a pretty old combo nigh 2 years or so now. It was in my combo video way back when as well.

[OneDumbG00k]

Oh... I gotta try that out... I didn't even think that could work...

Question to all the Rock and system experts... what's the fastest you can cancel the Rage Run Shift into 360 throw???

Also... anyone have any tips to doing the 360 motion? I kinda do the qcb+rh and keep following that motion and mashing on punch... and I have differing levels of success than my bro who just does the 360 motion after shifting and pressing punch once.

[Rochus]

Originally posted by OneDumbG00k
Oh... I gotta try that out... I didn't even think that could work...

Question to all the Rock and system experts... what's the fastest you can cancel the Rage Run Shift into 360 throw???

Also... anyone have any tips to doing the 360 motion? I kinda do the qcb+rh and keep following that motion and mashing on punch... and I have differing levels of success than my bro who just does the 360 motion after shifting and pressing punch once.

i do qcb.rh then roll across the punches when i get to down through back...never miss

theres a slight mandatory pause after shift about the same rhythm as linking c.jab into c.forward

[No D]

Originally posted by UCRollerblader


no reason to rc 360 throw...
:confused: what? I would think It would be really messed up to RC Rocks 360...........:) But I see where your comming from...... Rocks moves seem way too sensitive. Its really easy to mess up at least for me.....:confused: But any RCed command thow in CVS 2 is really dam Powerful.... It might bring Rock up a level.

[Hellion]

What do you guys think about S-Groove Rock?

[OneDumbG00k]

I tried this mess around team a while back...

S Akuma/Kyosuke/R2 Rock

Needless to say it sucked. If you like the run and small jump,... K and N are so much better because you get rage and JD and break stock into Lvl 3 Super is reeeaallllly good. I never had time to charge with Rock and his lvl 1 supers suck.

Dodge in S-Groove is much too tempting not to abuse at first and you'll learn painfully that dodging often keeps you very stationary unless you're truly doing it to counter someone else's attack with your linkable Dodge attack. When you don't, dodge keeps you locked down too long and will make your Rock into a crapukken, jumpkicking whore who can't handle the rushdown without a dp. I started losing badly... which I hated.

[Kataklysmic]

First of all, in case you didn't know, charging should be used to bait and break turtles, not just to gain meter. For meter, it builds much the same way as K anyway, albeit at a much slower (but more reasonable) pace, and also during your guard. Second, doding is not as useless as you make it sound. You can cancel a dodge into an attack or another dodge almost instantly, or just throw/command grab after a full dodge for punishing at a more variable approach. Plus, both of Rock's dodge attacks are very good; punch for mid-range (and closer) knockdown, and kick for a mid-range counter XX fireball/Hard Edge/Rage Run/super (Lv.1 OR 3, doesn't matter). And like any character with that much going for him, dodge attacks add more to his mixups. That's the whole point behind dodging, besides just evading crap. If you know when to charge and dodge at the most appropriate times, as well as when NOT to, Rock can still be as offensive running and low-jumping with S as he can with K and N, if not more. Both of those features simply add more options for rushing in or baiting. It's well worth a second or less of not moving, and I'm sure everyone has the patience for it. And for the record, Rock's Lv.1 supers are no less crappy than his Lv.3s. I just don't see the reasoning behind that; his Shine Knuckle might work best from far away, but it also depends on whether or not they're anticipating it. His Lv.1 Raging Storm is still good to keep people from advancing or jumping in...... that's not even up for argument.

Simply put, if you can't take advantage of Lv.1s and you don't like to dodge, then it's obvious you don't try with S-Groove to begin with. It's not quick or easy getting accustomed to, sure, but you don't just get good with it over night, either. Fact is, it hardly appears to be anyone's style, and that's why there are few that care about it.

[RagingStormX]

Why do people say Rock's lp/mp rising tackle suck? I was using them both in training to wake-up on Bison's meaty slide and meaty c.mp/s.mp from kyo. Seems like good wake-up to me.

[eightysix]

Originally posted by RagingStormX
Why do people say Rock's lp/mp rising tackle suck? I was using them both in training to wake-up on Bison's meaty slide and meaty c.mp/s.mp from kyo. Seems like good wake-up to me.

Against ground attack, it's pretty good as a wake-up. If they jump in and try to hit you and you wake-up with Rising Tackle, there's a good chance that you'll get hit out of it.

[RagingStormX]

I know his hp rising tackle is great anti-air.

[UCRJesse]

Originally posted by RagingStormX
I know his hp rising tackle is great anti-air.

don't listen to this guy.... no reason to use rising tackle if you aren't doing an a-groove combo or c-groove corner cancel...

if you can roll cancel 360's, i found it's actually a pretty good wake up move... but you'd be better off just blocking, all you're going to take is like, 40 percent guard tops, usually 20 percent and you're back in the game.

fireball is good against cammy

other random stuff.... hmmmm

s-groove, his dodge kick move sucks cause it hits high and most characters can duck it.

lvl 1 supers however, are no good, they don't really take off much and are hard to use as anti-air...

best lvl 1 super usage is when you have the opportunity to punish a poke, use c. rh xx lvl 1 shine knuckle or lvl 1 raging storm

as an anti-air, you have to know that they are going to jump to use lvl 1 raging storm and lets face it, against good players you aren't going to know when to stop that, the thing has no invincibility so it doesn't work for wakeup..


so lets recap what have we learned today kids?

1. don't do wakeups... exception if you KNOW it will hit (example, you are getting up and they jump straight up and are not in k or p groove, then do lvl 2 raging storm)

2. throw reppukens at cammy

3. s-groove is booty

4. don't use rising tackle

i believe that is all

[OneDumbG00k]

Originally posted by UCRollerblader
1. don't do wakeups... exception if you KNOW it will hit (example, you are getting up and they jump straight up and are not in k or p groove, then do lvl 2 raging storm) Err... so if they're in K or P groove and they're jumping, you're not allowed to Raising Storm their asses??? :D C'mon... most ppl have trouble parrying and JD'ing most successive hitting moves like Tiger Uppercuts no matter how much they practice.

Just some things I've noticed that have helped my game immensely:

Dashing back and forth with Rock is essential. One of the best dashes in the game period since it hops, goes a good distance and is ridiculously fast. Good for dead body crossups, closing distances and messing with the guy's orientation. Do it often enough and it makes him look like a speedy mofo. If you don't do it,... he looks like a blind mole with the walking speed of a turtle that ppl like Blanka, Bison and Mai will try to abuse in the worst ways.

Far st. mp is still a good option as a standing poke when playing footsies since only the girls, Kim, Vega, Rolento and a few others can duck underneath it. It has quick startup, higher priority then cr. mk and recovers quickly. Not to mention it also beats out a lot of the high priority moves like Sagat's cr. fp and Blanka's cr. fp cleanly. Don't let your Rock turn into a rebukken/hard edge/rely on Raising Storm whore. Mix it up, use other normals and most of all... DASH!

My wakeup high Crack Counter has never worked and it pisses me off. Any particular reason for this???

[RagingStormX]

UCRollerblader: Hmm I read this today and saw how you said don't use the HP rising tackle outside or CC"s and combos, never rule out another anti-air option. I didn't say it was your primary anti-air, it just can be used where none of his other ant-airs will work, here an example, similar to something Buktooth said.

You try to c.mk/c.rh chun-li, but she jumped, she's right on top of you. Can you s.rh? No. So fp rising tackle, it will take out any jump attack. It's better than letting Chun get the upperhand.

[kcxj]

HP rising tackle has 8 frames full body invincibility.

MP rising tackle has 6 frames full body, the 2 frames upper body. It's perfect anti-air.

Anybody who says to never use some move or another, you can pretty much automatically tell you should never listen to them. :lol:

[Rock-sama]

Originally posted by kcxj
.......
...... rising tackle has 6 frames full body, the 2 frames upper body. It's perfect anti-air........


:wtf: perfect? you sure about that sweetheart?

if someone is above you and u dont have a super u should always c.mp ...( shift, 360, break lvl 3, beat the guy, win the tournament, get the guy's hot girl friend, earn daigo's respect, go home and find out you won a million dollars then have sloopy sex with your new girl friend, become a pirate........) because the rising tackle might miss, mp or lp fierce whatever, it can still miss, if they jump in at the distance, the best move you can make is s. rh... except if they have air super

and k or p groove, EYE use c.fierce to mix up their timing, i dont have that frame data bullshit but ive always felt that u RECOVER from c. fierce slightly faster than s. roundhouse in case they do jd, then u can hard edge them while they land since the c.fp pushed them up

p-groove... the same but EYE hold down to charge the raising tackle after the c.fp....... anyway, as for the rising tackle being perfect........ i think that there is a reason why terry gave it up in motw and kof 2003.....

[UCRJesse]

Originally posted by RagingStormX
UCRollerblader: Hmm I read this today and saw how you said don't use the HP rising tackle outside or CC"s and combos, never rule out another anti-air option. I didn't say it was your primary anti-air, it just can be used where none of his other ant-airs will work, here an example, similar to something Buktooth said.

You try to c.mk/c.rh chun-li, but she jumped, she's right on top of you. Can you s.rh? No. So fp rising tackle, it will take out any jump attack. It's better than letting Chun get the upperhand.

kcxj.... you say there is all this invincibility on rising tackle... but a lot of jump ins will beat it or trade which is NOT in your favor... Just don't use it... it's a good simple rule for a few reasons
1. you shouldn't be doing wake up moves, why? because you're making a horrible gamble... If your wake up move hits, big deal, they can usually tech get up anyways. It does far less damage then they can do to you if they predict it.
2. a lot of shit beats it or trades.. if it trades, rising tackle has a weak first hit and it's not worth getting hit with a counter hit rh or something crazy like that.
3. he has 3 anti-airs that are much better, standing rh, raging storm, and c. strong.

ragingstormx- you're taking buktooths advice wrong there buddy, he was talking about balrogs strong headbutt, which is a perfect anti-air if you don't have time to use his other ones... Rock's rising tackle doesn't work like that because the invincibility sucks on it, don't listen to kcxj's "frame data" knowledge... spitting out frame data doesn't mean shit if it doesn't work in a match. basically, if you do low forward and they jump to cross you up, you'll have enough time to do crouching strong which leads to a mixup. If you don't feel like you do, there is nothing wrong with blocking or jumping out of the way. or hell, just do raging storm, peace out. Oh yeah, and against chun with rock, if you don't have enough time to early anti air her or raging storm, you'd better block, more often then not her jumping short will beat rising tackle clean and she gets a free 10,000 damage combo on you. Nothing wrong with just blocking it since it's relatively easy to see and she doesn't have many good mixups or block strings after.

final thought on rising tackle... as far as a wakeup, it beats almost all ground attacks clean which is fine to know, but it's probably not going to be a good idea unless you are very low on life and are only risking losing the last of a character.

one dumb g00k- using raging storm against p and k groove people jumping at you is fine.... my intent is not to have you kids scared, it's to teach you to shake some shitty habits you might have. oh yeah, wake up crack counter doesn't work because it doens't come out all instantly like geese's counters. i think somewhere i said not to use crack counters at all, and i'll stick by that. The few times when it's beneficial to use it are not worth learning until you are playing better people.

Rock's crack counters should really only be used for the following
1. to stop sakura rc hurricane kick... another option is to jump straight up if you think it's coming, then come down with rh into a combo or just a sweep if you want to keep it simple and get a mixup.

2. sometimes around sagats standing fierce range mid crack counter is ok to throw out since it's really hard to punish it with rock (other way is to make him whiff walk up sweep).

oh yeah, and everyone.... low forward, fierce elbow is shitty, here is why... you can argue with it in theory but these are my observations from real play.
some people have been around the threads saying rock has a good jab short forward hard edge bnb combo, but don't listen to them, if you can't combo forward from a good distance into hard edge then it's not a good idea. it's kinda like shotos and their fireballs... crouching forward fireball will combo from up close, but it's not always going to work, which is why nobody does fireball combos with shotos... everyone either does jab forward super, sweep, hurricane kick, sweep into hurricane kick, ken's ugly kick, etc. just test out the usefulness of low forward elbow in matches, it's not practical, most of the time you might as well just do standing fierce elbow... at least you know it will hit 100 percent of the time.

[RagingStormX]

I didn't mean by her cross-up, I just meant more or a deep jump-in. As for it trading with shit, I beat EVERY high priority jump-in with it, every type of angle CLEAN, you must not be doing it deep enough. I was also saying the situation was similar to what Buk said, not the exact same thing. I aslo used lp rising tackle to wake-up on a meaty Bison slide and Kyo's mp's, it's great wake up when I use it. Chun-li's j.lk will *NOT* beat a fp rising tackle, what makes the hp rising tackle good also is the fact that it cannot be air blocked deep. But, yes of course, s.rh is usually the best AA option. As for Kcxj's frame data knowledge, I haven't found any of it to be false.

[vasAZNion13]

no one uses c.fierce as anti air?

also, does anyone know the frame data for:
-s.short (far)
-s.fwd(far)
-c.rh
-c.jab

[hoaxe]

i dont because
A- s.rh works better imo
B- c.mp looks more like a c.fierce of a shoto
C- you move forward with a c.fierce, it may not always be what you want...

even though a c.fierce is sometimes more usefull than a s.rh, say hes simply out of range, a well timed c.rh may do it.

oh and it hits standing opponents by advancing. not a always expected move...

[thehurricane]

s fk is the best anti air for rock.

[p0l1cy]

You guys talk about it like it's really easy, and I've seen it in videos and shit, but I cannot seem to combo anything off of the laser. The combo is always like 360XXlaser in the corner, then they do a s.hk or cr.hk XX raging storm. Is there some trick to doing this, or is the timing just really tight, or what?

[kcxj]

The trick is to release the laser as early as possible. It has 12 total hit frames. Ideally, you don't want the laser to hit until hit frame number 12. You recover in time to do the d.HK then.

[ZenFire]

Just try to let the laser blob explode under the prone opponent's butt. It may also help to double tap the foot-to-ass cr.hk

[vasAZNion13]

go to training mode and look at the lines in the background to help time your laser. after you get used to the timing. just practice so you can do it without the lines.

[p0l1cy]

OK, I spent some time in training mode and finally got it. I was just timing it wrong. It doesn't seem to be much use except maybe in A groove. Or at least I usually don't try to land rage run shiftXX360 in the corner unless i'm playing A.

[ilikebeingalive]

*bump*

doing random shit in training mode...

jab rising tackle, juggle with level 3 rising storm

i know everyone probably knows but just saying...

don't flame me :)

[vasAZNion13]

so....

how do you beat A-sak with K-rock?

[kcxj]

Originally posted by vasAZNion13
so....

how do you beat A-sak with K-rock?
Pick Kyo instead. :lol:

Although Rock's d.HK hits fast, it doesn't have a lot of hit frames at all. Only 3 hit frames, then a ton of recovery. You need to use your d.MK, far s.MP, low jump straight up HK, and random qcb+LP instead to discourage Sakura from wanting to walk up and kick you.

This is definately a not a good match for Rock. He needs to take more risks if he wants to win. Throw out those counters, go for lot of 360 throws, and use your low jump HK up close. Most importantly, JD! Against scrub Sak, you really want to discourage her from doing random roll cancels on you all day. JD all her stuff and toss her all over the place.

Oh yeah, don't let Sak get close once she gets meter. d.LP, link CC, d.MK is really cheap against K. You can't just JD her first hit, then super like you can when she activates out of nowhere.

[vasAZNion13]

Sak seems to be perfectly safe if i JD everyhit(except for the extra hit of the hurricane kick, but for some odd reason a lot of people dont' do that when i'm JDing)
even JDing everyhit of the fireball, she seems to be safe. best i've gotten is throwing right after, if the opponent doesn't try to jab.

sak's s.rh beats out rock's c.rh. also since sak's safe after a lot of moves, doing c.rh to poke/zone has come to hurt me more than them since they can jump and dive kick me after each safe blockstring, so rock realy loses his one of his best normals against sak.

far s.mp: i've rarely used this move, can sak duck this?

[kcxj]

Sak can't duck your far s.MP when she's sticking out a roundhouse. Plus far s.MP is a quick whiffing move too. Think of it like Sakura's own far s.MP. It IS slightly different, but the idea is the same. Stick the move out early so whatever the opponent does will be stuffed.

You need to do your counters on reaction to Sakura dive kicks. But the thing is, she can whiff them when she wants too. Far s.HK is too slow. d.MP hits at totally the wrong angle. That's why I said to use Kyo instead. :lol: He can dp all that bullshit. If only Rock had a meatier hitting sweep like Chun-li's... Anyway, I use j.MK a lot whenever Sak comes at me at a tough angle.
The RC qcf+HP Sakura's do to you over and over in the corner... If you JD all the hits, Sak is at +/-0. Whatever happens from there is totally up to the players. If Sak's just going nuts on autopilot when she has you cornered with that move, you can low jump over her fireball (RC'd or not) and hit her with lj.HK xx super.

Again, I always go for a lot of throws when I play against Sak. The 360 has a ton of range, and it grabs all of Sakura's RC attempts when you're in range. Remember both the RC hurricane and fireball hit mad slow (dp+P is another story, but that's risky for Sakura anyway).

Anybody have any more tips? I'm curious as to what else I can do to beat her with K-Rock myself.

[Strider Hiryu]

Originally posted by kcxj
Sak can't duck your far s.MP when she's sticking out a roundhouse. Plus far s.MP is a quick whiffing move too. Think of it like Sakura's own far s.MP. It IS slightly different, but the idea is the same. Stick the move out early so whatever the opponent does will be stuffed.

You need to do your counters on reaction to Sakura dive kicks. But the thing is, she can whiff them when she wants too. Far s.HK is too slow. d.MP hits at totally the wrong angle. That's why I said to use Kyo instead. :lol: He can dp all that bullshit. If only Rock had a meatier hitting sweep like Chun-li's... Anyway, I use j.MK a lot whenever Sak comes at me at a tough angle.
The RC qcf+HP Sakura's do to you over and over in the corner... If you JD all the hits, Sak is at +/-0. Whatever happens from there is totally up to the players. If Sak's just going nuts on autopilot when she has you cornered with that move, you can low jump over her fireball (RC'd or not) and hit her with lj.HK xx super.

Again, I always go for a lot of throws when I play against Sak. The 360 has a ton of range, and it grabs all of Sakura's RC attempts when you're in range. Remember both the RC hurricane and fireball hit mad slow (dp+P is another story, but that's risky for Sakura anyway).

Anybody have any more tips? I'm curious as to what else I can do to beat her with K-Rock myself.

hard as fuck to do damage on sak with rock... you can't do elbows because at almost all ranges she can stand short uppercut you. you can't whiff sweeps or throw many repukkens cause her roll is demon fast, and she has fuckin unstoppable divekick

so anyways, jump up rh is good against her, i like it a lot more then low jump rh since you don't have that lag when you hit the ground... instead of jd'ing rc hurricane kicks, just counter them, you have enough time to see them if she trys doing it from too far. if she's close, yeah, just jd them shits and knock her down since she doesn't have any crazy wakeup moves. run through games are kinda hard to play against her since she can just short short short you. when she gets up.. make her block standing short and mix up between low short forward and 360 throw.

so yeah, i forgot the biggest problem which is s. rh, she can whore this move and you can't do much about it. try counterpoking with sweep but be careful... if you miss and she trys to roll she's gonna combo you.

uh so yeah, only way you're really gonna do damage with k rock, is to jd until you get meter, then it's pretty guaranteed you'll hit her with a super in one way or another.

[Rock-sama]

i use the middle and high counters alot. i know its not practical but it works for me, ive never really had a big problem with sak-a, actually i can work my crazy mind games in which i run up after a knockdown and d.reppuken to guard crush, its really hard to get the rc timing right if rock is in that deep, also if she gets u with an rc-wakeup if u do that..... get a knock down and do it one more time and i guarentee you that u can get the shiftXX360 for free unless she goes for the rc-hurricane but from my ex. its always fireball

i throw reppukens every once in a while to stop her dodge, i fierce hardedge that shit, im not possitive but if u anticipate it, u will either get a 2 hit or the first hit will knock her on her ass, just throw that m.counter once in a while just to get them to either do more RH or to dicourage them..... u should know what i mean