Counter Team Thread

[popoblo]

i'm wondering what the counter teams are in mvc2. it would make sense that team scrub would be countered by mag/cable/tron or mag/cable/doom just because both of those assists beat capcom, which leads to a 1 on 1 game of magneto vs cable or sentinel.

but my biggest question would be who counters MSP?

[Remy Saotome]

Originally posted by popoblo
but my biggest question would be who counters MSP? Try MM/Sent-y/BH. If you're good with Tornado Hold, well-placed tornadoes combined with well-timed FPs and Sent assist shuts down Mags rushing very well, and call BH if Mags gets a little too close. If you can't get the hang of timing and placing tornadoes right, Rockball can still cause some serious problems for Mags. As for Storm, MM can also counter rushing Storm, and even do well against a running Storm through proper use of BH plus sj.Mega Buster. And even if Storm manages to KO MM, Sent/BH can still take her.

[Rico]

No. Santhrax counters MSP.

[Remy Saotome]

Originally posted by Rico
No. Santhrax counters MSP. Yes, it does. But so does my team. And if you've read popoblo's other post, he tries to avoid the common characters as much as possible. And the team I posted is less of a "sheep" team.

[Trey15]

How does Team Steroids do vs. MSP?

[erik]

Originally posted by Trey15
How does Team Steroids do vs. MSP?


Thats such a bad macth up if they cross you up and you get hit its a done game. Unless you can block real good .

[erik]

team row gets counter by msp thats one. team storm/sent/capcom counters storm /sent/cable real bad.

There more macthesbut i just can't think of them right now

[Magnetic Hail]

Strider Doom ...........The answer to all your problems :cool:

[MaDmAn2117]

could someone explain how msp counters row?

[SBCDyN]

I wouldn't say MSP is a HARD counter to row, but certainly a soft counter. If row starts Sent, it's not so bad of a fight, as sent/mag-a CAN deal with mag/psy or storm/psy if played well. It's just the fact that psylocke has way too much priority and beats BOTH of row's assists.
If Mag is started first on row, it becomes a little harder, as the only thing he can do vs. psylocke is countercall (which he shouldn't even be able to do if MSP's magneto is playing correctly, i.e. keeping him in blockstun after calling psy). If row calls assist FIRST, then mags can just countercall psy and take the advantage and start rushing. Also, the team doesn't have too much it can do if mag gives storm a lead to run on, as cable obviously can't catch her, mag doesn't have an easy way, and sent can't catch her well with mag-a or cable-b.
If MSP is played correctly (and you're not actually playing Rowtron), it shouldn't have a huge problem setting the pace of the match and eventually winning.

[Nigma]

Originally posted by Magnetic Hail
Strider Doom ...........The answer to all your problems :cool: When Clockw0rk plays it, that is. :D

[Dasrik]

Cyke/Storm/Commando > MSPsycock whores :D

[Rico]

Originally posted by Dasrik
Cyke/Storm/Commando > MSPsycock whores :D

As long as you're Viscant. ^^

[Seany_Boy]

I have a question about the match up of strider/doom vs msp. A friend of mine says msp is a counter team but I don't see it. Anyone wanna add their 2cents?

[KaiSingrz]

Strider/Sent/Doom counters MSP. Not as hard as Storm/Sent/Commando does. But it still counters it. Strider backed with Sent/Doom is unrushable by magneto. The only thing that keeps this match from being a total squash is Psylocke's assist, which keeps strider from doing lazy start ups for the trap.

[Rico]

The two people I play most are my roommate, and another friend. My roommate uses Sent/Strider/Doom and scrub when he's bored. The other guy uses Sent/Storm/Cap. Please believe me when I say I play this matchup a LOT. Oh yea, this is with MSP.

From what I see, MSP fights Sent/Strider/Doom are either: Snap to Doom and win/easier fight, or slow(and i mean slow) death to Sent/Doom and Strider/Doom. Very careful fight for MSP; conservative and patient. I'd much rather have Storm out vs. Strider, or at least exploit mistake/counter assist xx Tempest to instant Hailstorm. Sooner the better, because Mags is usually hurting from fighting Sent at that point. Mags can't run from an orbed Strider as well as Storm or Sent(nice, Sin vs. Clock vid at denjin). Well, mine can't. Yet.
I also find that Strider starts orbs at full screen with Doom in my face, so Psy doesn't end up being as usefull as Storm proj. assist(gotta anticipate and call relatively early, though). Against gay Sent/Doom fly chip lockdown strings, Psy's the one to go to.

Against Sent/Storm/Cap, I usually win big or lose big. Snap to Cap, as everyone knows. Avoiding point Sent calling Cap with Mags isn't exactly THAT hard, either. Ask Mixup or Soo. However, unblockable, fast flys, assist punishing, and 100% DHC make this careful, too. There's the sj, ad forward, Hp, Hk, as well as other stuff, but this team fucking hurts. If you happen to know if Sent has no unfly, exploit when he does fly with Tempest to instant Hailstorm, too. Then you can charge/run/zone till 3 bars, land a hit on whoever's out, and Lightning Storm to Butterflies to Tempest/Shockwave. Mag proj. helps to ground their Hail chip attempts when it's Storm vs. Storm, but make sure they're far, or Cap will punish. Sucks, because sometimes assist takes the hit(God save the Queen!) and their Hail hits first on you and the jew.

[KaiSingrz]

i say it's better to start Storm first vs. Mags because while Sent has the potential to kill Mags quickly, Storm has the ability to kill Mags INSTANTLY.

[Rico]

Haha, yeah, I tell them that, they believe it and successfully do it, but I snap out Storm first way too often/easily, compared to when Sent starts. Lucky me. ^^

Clinging to that super armor. Faggots.

[Mixup]

MSP vs storm/sent/capcom.....your mag has to be able to triangle jump PRECISELY when he's in close vs storm/loaded team. not only is that hard as fuck. when you get in, you're gonna have to block storms attacks and wait your turn past her hailing you back out. First thing i do is snap in capcom, it's the easiest way to end the fight.

I think about it like this, if i drop storm while i'm comboing her, all she needs is a random attack to end me. Commando however is AT WORST going to either dhc back into a match mag can win easier(sent/capcom) or hit you with the corridor dhc. neither is as bad as storm getting free*unless the dhc killed ur ass:p

Really hard fight but winnable.

[x b 4 t M a N x]

msp vs storm/sent/cap.

when i face this team... it normally depends on the begining of the match. if i land the first hit, then cap is snapped in and it leads to an easy victory. if i fail to connect first it becomes very difficult. from my experience, msp loses to storm/sent/cap unless the msp user is alot more skilled.

hm. counter team to storm / sent / cap plz... :)

.infamous.

[Mixup]

Originally posted by x b 4 t M a N x
msp vs storm/sent/cap.

when i face this team... it normally depends on the begining of the match. if i land the first hit, then cap is snapped in and it leads to an easy victory. if i fail to connect first it becomes very difficult. from my experience, msp loses to storm/sent/cap unless the msp user is alot more skilled.

hm. counter team to storm / sent / cap plz... :)

.infamous.

There is no counter.

The easiest team to do it with is team scrub.

Sent vs either storm or sent

basically team scrub can try to keep away from ssc the whole game and sit on a lead. Just don't get hit. if you have good defense thats probably the closest thing to a general counter.

[Rico]

Hey Mixup/anyone else who would know...
I know that there aren't as many or as clear-cut counters as in Warcraft, but what do you think of this? And, what else would you correct; what teams would you add?

">" = "beats," not "better than." I wouldn't say that Scrub is better than Row.

Scrub > Santhrax > MSP > Row > ?MSS-A? > ?X? > ?MSTron? > ?Scrub?

I realize that some teams don't really have a clear counter, and some teams can fight everyone, like MSS, in my opinion (if it does have one, I'd like to know). I guess I'd put them after a team that's hardest for it to fight.

Oh, also... Where would Storm/Cable/Cyc fit? I don't see it that much, but I think it's worth sorting. Haha, I remember I thought I was a genius when I put together Storm/Cable/Cammy or Cyc... Then I go to a tourney and pull it out, people are like "Hahaha, I hate it when my friend(s) use that team." _ _;;

Just wanted a more comprehensive list with as many major teams as possible.

[Mixup]

That'd be one hell of a list basically. too many small match-up issues to use that format.

It would also take somone who isn't biased as fuck towards some characters*cough mag

[Deathfist]

The easiest way to do it is to have 1 person list a team, and then have a bunch of players [the general populus] put down 3-5 teams that it beats, 1-2 teams it's roughly even with, and 3-5 teams it's defeated by. Eventually one player takes the information and hybridizes it into a single condensed post that lists all the teams, and their counters. This can be done using 1 thread, or 1 thread per team. 1 thread per team would probably work the best, but that can possibly be alot of bandwidth. It'd probably be worth it though. The only problem, is that on this site, there are...

-Many people too hardly set on certain characters.
-Too many people who can't take criticisim.
-Too many people too harsh with their criticism.
-Too many people afraid to post anything useful for fear of getting mistreated since it's hapenned in the past.

I think this CAN work despite it's flaws though. All we need to do is keep our asses under control, think before we act, and be respectful of each other for once and we're set.

[Ouroborus]

team scrub that shit!:D

i seriously think this is the best team in the game. maybe second best, but certainly up there.

[Mixup]

Team scrub = santhrax 5-5

Team scrub < Mag/Storm/Tron 7-3

Team scrub > msp 6-4 *the team(msp) has a gameplan but its pretty hard to follow through

Team scrub < rowtron 6-4 *depends on how bomb the sentinel is

i'm just trying this out and thinking about it....hmm...i think it's too opinion based, gotta get somone who is a real authority:lol:

Team scrub is bomb and all but mag teams can fuuuuuuuuuuck it all up.

[MarkyMark]

Dhalsim / Storm / Sent-A beats team Scrub. Or I could be biased :D

[darksentinel]

strider/doom doesnt work to counter msp cause the psylocke AAA is the assist counter for doom AAA.

try sent/storm/capcom. just run away cause magneto always is following sent and to arrive to him, its too hard.

try it.

[Dasrik]

Team Scrub is not the best team in the game. It dies to dumb shit like Mags/Storm/Doom and Doom/BH/Mando.

IMO Cyclops/Cable/Sent has the potential to counter Santhrax, but I don't have a solid strategy yet.

[SNAKESHOTPEOPLE]

strider/doom doesnt work to counter msp cause the psylocke AAA is the assist counter for doom AAA.

It isn't, Cyclops's AAA is the counter assist for Doom's AAA, Psylocke is the counter to Cyclops assist .

[Icege]

Hrm... though this is counter team, I guess we can break down characters and what not... I dunno. This is just a gay attempt for me to figure out what to do with Sentinel against Cable. I get rocked whenever my scrubby Sent hits play versus Cable. With, or without meter for that matter :/

I'd ask in the Sent forum, but I already did. ACK!

Matrix > clockw0rk?

[Devil X]

psylocke aa does counter doom aa

what is team matrix?:confused:

[popoblo]

Originally posted by Devil X

what is team matrix?:confused:

methinks storm/sent/cyc

[Devil X]

storm/sent/cyc is not a direct counter. sent/doom does ok on storm/sent/cyc unless the storm player is really good at rushing down, even so you just need patience and youll get your space to do things. once storm builds two meters you just need to make sure all fighting is done on the ground level unless you know you got a sure hit in the sky. its not worth going to combat with storm when she has that dhc, on the ground she cant really use it since a good sent should be able to block her rushdown. dont get impatient just keep building meter for strider if she does not want to engage you. keep the fighting grounded and you should do fine. most of the time the storm player will try to hang in as long as they can lookin for the dhc. once you get about 3 meters though and have their storm a bit weakened go ahead and call in strider, chip the weather bitch and force them to bring in sentinel or have their storm die. then you get strider on sent which imo with those assists is in striders favor. cyc doesnt protect sents fat ass that well, since strider can jump at sent and cyc will usually zoom right past while strider is attacking with infinite attempts/assists. wait for them to call cyc then call your assist and get to work. from a distance, strider has to be patient and not try to warp too much with the mouth lazers comin, once hit and the dhc to cyc, storm could kill yah.

sent/storm/cyc is more of a counter. sent/cyc > sent/doom, then you have storm vs strider, advantage to storm but it is very winable, cyc assist isnt that threatening but storm is storm. if i really want to be an ass like in tourny play this happens alot is people will try this direct counter, however i always start strider no matter who they start. if they start sent then i have my natural counter. if they start storm i can just activate orbs the moment i get the chance and tag in sent safely and get the match up i want :evil:

[KaiSingrz]

Originally posted by darksentinel
strider/doom doesnt work to counter msp cause the psylocke AAA is the assist counter for doom AAA.

Psylocke just means strider can't rush in carelessly. Magneto still can't rush strider if strider also has sentinel. And he's not going to be able to call psylocke when he's locked down. There are plenty of ways of locking magneto down out of psylocke range.

[hypermegachi]

i'm surprised how little publicity strider/doom is getting. seems like whenever someone mentions s/d, no one seems to reply to it.

i for one think strider/doom is counter for all cable based teams. bomb xx orbs just owns cable bad.

MSP does not own strider/doom, psylocke is a bitch of an assist, but like someone said, it just means strider has to be more on his toes

even storm/sent teams have their share of problems against strider/doom and vice versa.

strider/doom is probably the most non-counterable team out there, yet it does well against cable teams. personally i like that because i really hate that cable bastard. yes yes yes there is no such thing as 'cheap'....but really i can't get past the guard break as anything other than cheap...everything else is fair game to me.

correct me if i'm wrong, and i admit i am very biased towards strider/doom, but i've yet to read anything about a team that directly counters strider/doom, and when someone does mention it's like "but it will be a hard fight"...well then isn't that just an even fight?

ok enough ranting from me, sorry guys

[Remy Saotome]

Originally posted by hypermegachi
correct me if i'm wrong, and i admit i am very biased towards strider/doom, but i've yet to read anything about a team that directly counters strider/doom, and when someone does mention it's like "but it will be a hard fight"...well then isn't that just an even fight? Sent/StriDoom is one of the all around most difficult-to-counter teams out there. One drawback to all StriDoom based teams, and the main reason it isn't played much, is because of the difficulty of use. It isn't hard to make a mistake and accidentally latch onto a wall instead of teleport, and then Strider's gone. But, assuming the Strider player doesn't make a mistake, the team is hard to beat.

Of all the regularly played teams, MSP and MSS-y seem to have the best chance of winning, but even they aren't really counter teams.

There is a reliable StriDoom counter, though. Felicia! The optimum formation is Felicia (grnd)/Cable/AA. The choice of AA is pretty much up to you. Since Cable will have to fight Sent, you may want CapCom to help deal with Sent. However, Ken or Cyke are better choices for the actual fight with StriDoom, since they can break the trap if Strider manages to get it started. As for actually fighting StriDoom, Felicia can completely shutdown Strider on the ground with Sand Splashes. Strider can't do anything to punish a blocked Sand Splash, they'll keep him from summoning bird-bombs, and also eat through Doom's rocks while they're forming, hitting Doom back out. If Strider jumps, call your AA and continue Sand Splashing. As you have meter, you can Hyper Sand Splash Doom, and kill him after 3-4 times, or you can sit on your meter and VC->AHVBx3 Doom once you have four. After Doom is out, Strider's pretty much done for, too. The only thing to really watch out for with this match-up is who you start. If he starts Sent, you want to start Cable. If he starts Strider, you want to start Felicia. If you choose to start Felicia and then he starts Sent, one rather risky option you have is to try to Please Help Me! a fly-stomp. Usually, the Sent player isn't expecting this and you can catch him of guard with the PHM!, then tag to Cable when it's done. There is a chance, though, that the Sent player will be fast enough to unfly and block the PHM!, then counter punish, killing Felicia. Your call.

[Devil X]

the best counters to sent/strider/doom at least for me is probably sent/storm/cyc or team scrub. those are the most difficult match ups for that team. team scrub sent/commando has a pretty huge advantage over sent/doom. doom is useless against a stomping, fly sent. and if they feel to threatened by chip damage they have cable aa to knock it out. and because you have to have patience against sent/com theyre building a ton of bars for cable while you build at a very slow pace for strider. when you get enough meter to get strider in you usually waste two bars while the sent on team scrub will wait for the strider trap, counter in cable during rocks or whatever and have him in there loaded against strider with 1 or no bars. not very fun but winable to a good strider just not mines lol. of course if you let someone start cable on your sent it would also be a natural counter, not that bad though at least you can call doom out until cable has about 3 bars then you gotta sneak strider in. once cable has 3 bars sentinel cant do shit.


btw, i dont think felicia counters strider at all. im not saying she cant win but like in all strider matches you just have to be smart in what youre doing. pretty much any character with a decent super can give strider trouble, cyclops, guile, alpha countered in juggernaut, theres a ton of things mid tiers can do to fuck with strider because of his nature of getting next to opponents and dishing out little damage, and his low stamina he gives everyone a chance to hit (kill) him. i cant see how felicia would be a better option than a character like storm or sentinel when fighting strider. not to mention if sentinel or doom gets on felicias ass they could give her some big problems. so youre risk getting countered as well. just stick with the big 4 when fighting strider with the right assists youll do just fine.


you cant beat good cables with just bombXXouro. for a while that worked but alot of them got wise to it and figured out tactics against it. its still a good thing to do but you cant be predictable with it. you gotta know other little openings on him that i seem to have forgotten, but im remembering some the more i play lately :lol:

[KaiSingrz]

That's the thing about strider. He's very hard to counter because he'll always have plenty of options in just about all his fights. In a lot of cases, I'm glad if my opponent picks cyclops to try to counter my strider. It just means i get to run like a ho with my cyke and build 5 bars for free. Felicia just forces me to keep my lockdown consistent and not call orbs out of the blue (not that hard). If anything, I'd say Omega Red is a tougher fight than Felicia. Omega Strikes will fly over cats and not to mention if he's holding down back, Strider's jabs will go over his head, making it harder to build meter when locking him down.

The toughest fights for Strider/Doom in my opinion would be Team Scrub variations, Storm/Sent/AA(Cyke in particular), and Storm/Cable/Cyke.

Team Scrub can be countered though with Cable/Strider/Doom, especially if the sentinel player is a defensive player. Just shoot up sentinel and let strider handle cable. or if you want, hold down/back after killing sentinel. Strider/Doom vs. Team Scrub is a fight in which Team Scrub's cable HAS to die before Strider.

Storm/Sent/AA can be fought by Sentinel or cyclops. Drawbacks for both of them is that Sentinel is more easily locked down with Storm/Cyke and Cyke can't survive the Storm/Sent DHC. It's not a lost fight. Just build enough bars for strider and vary your trap patterns so you don't get caught by a countered in cyclops.

Storm/Cable/Cyke isn't as tough of a fight as team scrub. It's a lot like team scrub in that you need to kill cable before strider dies. But Cable has less muscle backing him up.

[Devil X]

omega red is a bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! f clock :mad: :fury: :mad: just get sent on his ass :evil:

[Dasrik]

Cyclops doesn't really fight Storm/Sent that well. Honestly, if all things are even, Cable/Sent fights Storm/Sent better. Call drones and tigerknee viper beam really fucks with Storm/Sent rush. And if you get into trouble, you can use jump jab and grenades to bail you out fairly reliably. It's a match that doesn't seem to work, but it does if you're disciplined.

Cyclops does decent on Storm if she doesn't have drones. Her low roundhouse still messes up Cyke's keepaway patterns.

And yes, Felicia beats Strider. More accurately, Felicia with two meters and Sentinel or a good AAA beats Strider (otherwise, Strider can jump in with early fierce). Basic rushdown chain into sandkick leaves Strider hardpressed to respond, since he can't use jumanji or orbs unless he makes you block. The best thing Strider can do in this match is to play mind games with the teleport, and you can't even do that if your opponent has Eye of the Tiger!!!!!!

Sentinel messes up Felicia, but Doom doesn't really. Rolling buckler > jump fierce, and stand roundhouse beats Doom's everything.

[KaiSingrz]

When I start Cyke on Cyke/Strider/Doom against Storm/Sent/Cyke, Cyke's job against Storm/Sent really isn't to win. It's to keep from losing. I know firsthand that for Cyke, Storm and Storm/Sent are two different matches. But unless the third assist is blackheart or to a lesser degree, commando, it makes Cyke's job even easier. Cyke can maybe land a few hits here and there and when he's in the right position, DHC. Overall, Cyclops just can't fight Storm on the ground anymore when she has Sentinel. So he has to either stall by running away or maybe fight it out in the air(kind of risky since you could run into LAxxLS).

[Remy Saotome]

I'm one of the few posters on this forum who can actually play Felicia well, and I can confidently say that Felicia kills StriDoom. Strider can't do jack shit to Sand Splashes + AA except teleport, and teleports can be on-reaction Hyper Sand Splashed if you have meter. And Felicia is never hurting for meter, she's one of the fastest builders in the game.

[Devil X]

felicia CAN beat strider, i never said she couldnt but i dont really think he is handicapped in this fight any more than he is in other fights. she dont really make him have to alter his game much at all besides watch for sandsplash (AHVB is 10x more frightening). characters like sent/aa on point, cable with meters, storm/sent, mag/psylocke. they really alter the way you play strider. against felicia you can still do whatever the hell you want, you can warp anytime you want, if youre smart you can start orbs when you want. if shes pressuring you , you can simply just block. what can she really do if you just hold db and push block her and jump out? nothing really . strider can meet any characer in the game attack for attack if theyre in his range. at the start of a round striders jump jab actually beats out any jumping shit magneto throws out. drones dont even matter to strider, he can teleport around them, double jump over them or simply go under them and meet felcia head on . or he can meet her in the air, it really doesnt matter. just fight using the sentinel assist and when you got your opportunties to start orbs use them. all that shit felicia can do is answered by BLOCKING theres no cross ups there. just be patient and push her ass off you , the pressure and chip youre going to be dishing out is much more than any shit she can throw at you. warp in and attack with assists. if she wants to sand splash sentinel go ahead it'll take about 6-7 sand spashes to kill his fat ass lol. not to mention strider can safely tag in sentinel from orbs anytime he feels like it to completely wreck that ass :evil:

in other words, strider has alot of options to play. when a character flat out beats another character, there are very few options.

the best felicia based team vs strider would have to have storm backing her, to allow her to hurt doom assist with dhc. either way, cable or doom on point are much better at achieving this goal and are better overall characters.

however, omega red beats strider! :(

[Dasrik]

Nice post Nick :) I'll address individual issues...

Originally posted by Devil X
she dont really make him have to alter his game much at all besides watch for sandsplash (AHVB is 10x more frightening).Sandsplash is more dominating than AHVB for several reasons:

* sandsplash goes under bird. Prolly most important thing. Cable's attempts to shoot Strider are too often nerfed by the bird.
* sandsplash is instant. If you've done the QCF motion and you see Strider point his finger or begin to fade out, hit KK and he is owned. Cable requires the werewithal to quickly QCF,UF+PP and it's not always easy to decide whether Strider is warping or just jumping and shoot him that quickly.
* sandsplash hits all along the floor, so even if you do fuck up and Strider teleports, you at least have a chance to cross him up.

As long as Felicia never jumps, she's always a threat to Strider, and if she has the right help (Sentinel or AAA) she never has to.

you can warp anytime you want, if youre smart you can start orbs when you want.Only way to start orbs safely is to do it while she's blocking drones. In this case, Felicia having Sentinel is the best way to go because as long as you keep drones coming, you never have to worry about them getting in the way of the sandsplash. However, she can still hide behind a moderately tall assist (Blackheart) or one that goes out in front of her and stays near the floor (Cyclops) and still be able to splash Strider for whatever he does.

If Strider warps right on top of Felicia, a s.roundhouse generally takes care of things, although I wouldn't count on it. The best response to a warp if you can do it is to call drones.

if shes pressuring you , you can simply just block. what can she really do if you just hold db and push block her and jump out? nothing really .That's true, Felicia can't do much on her own to make Strider do stuff, but compared to what Strider can do safely, it's all she needs. As long as you stay disciplined and don't try to get cute, Felicia can force mistakes.

he can teleport around them, double jump over them or simply go under them and meet felcia head on . or he can meet her in the air, it really doesnt matter. just fight using the sentinel assist and when you got your opportunties to start orbs use them.This is why IMO Felicia/Sentinel/AAA (preferably Cyclops) is the best configuration to take on a Strider-reliant Strider/Sent/Doom player. If you keep drones on screen to match Strider's drones, Strider has a lot less opportunities to get you to block them. Meeting Felicia in the air is irrelevant since she should never jump, and standing roundhouse has some stupid Marvel priority (consistent trades with Strider's jumping attacks). When you start getting more advanced, you can start using guard cancels to REALLY mess with Strider and give him even less opportunities to start orbs.

Trick is to not force too much, and if you mess up and need to block, that's fine. Strider has to keep that shit going for so long whereas all Felicia usually needs is two clean shots to win, plus if you have Cyclops/Ken/Cable you always have counter in your backpocket.

all that shit felicia can do is answered by BLOCKING theres no cross ups there. just be patient and push her ass off you , the pressure and chip youre going to be dishing out is much more than any shit she can throw at you.You can only pressure and chip if you get Felicia to block Sentinel's first drone. Otherwise, Strider can't do ANY of his pressure starters safely.

if she wants to sand splash sentinel go ahead it'll take about 6-7 sand spashes to kill his fat ass lol. not to mention strider can safely tag in sentinel from orbs anytime he feels like it to completely wreck that ass :evil: Felicia should NEVER sandsplash Strider's assists. Never. That's just a waste, unless you have a good chance of killing that assist. Course, there's still that safe tag, AND there's always just flat out tagging in Sentinel without really caring either way. What can Felicia do to damage Sent?

in other words, strider has alot of options to play. when a character flat out beats another character, there are very few options. I don't think Felicia teams beat Strider teams. I think Felicia has enough direct counters to common Strider tactics that you can use her to beat phoney baloney Sents and keep the real Strider players honest. That's good enough, plus it throws some variety in for the players who want to take that route. It might become more necessary when Strider gets more popular.

the best felicia based team vs strider would have to have storm backing her, to allow her to hurt doom assist with dhc. either way, cable or doom on point are much better at achieving this goal and are better overall characters.Felicia's goal isn't to kill Doom anyway, it's to kill Strider. IMO best teams are Felicia/Sent/Cyclops or Felicia/Sent/Cable. Or vs. Sent/Strider/Doom, Sent/Felicia/Cable or Cable/Felicia/Cyclops.

however, omega red beats strider! :( Jump fierce fierce fierce fierce!

[Devil X]

well id love to see someone sandsplashing everything i do on reaction lol and when that day comes i will say hands down felicia beats strider, but ive played good feclias and i never seen anything close to this. in fact, im going to say its impossible to do it on reaction to striders warp. theres almost no signs of his warp, he has a duck animation (which is why he can warp on cable standing gun shot on reaction) then he fades. and once he begins to fade its already too late to hit him. you dont get crossed up on the way down either, you can double jump from warp so if you ever feel unsafe about how youre landing you can always warp then jump away. you can always position yourself to start orbs on felicia with doom or sent assist, warping is key. warp around her assist and call your own, and you can start anything you want. you have to get away from throwing dogs at the end of chained strings but you cant do that on cable either so im used to not leaving openings . no way sandsplash is better than ahvb vs strider, birds dont get in cables way much you can shoot the birds, you cant shoot the bombs though. the reason why ahvb is deadlier is because anytime doom is left unprotected hes dead. and thats pretty much game over. cable should be looking to shoot doom more than actually strider himself, you just need to hit one of the two to win the match up. id like to play some more felicas just to see more on how it plays out, cause i havent yet fought against one i was scared of. and viscant dont count cause he beats me with pretty much any team :mad:

omega red is a nasty sob on strider, omega strikes , strider has no answer for. underground coil, omeda strike combos when you try to warp +his assists and then he can pressure you while building tons of meter. basically, its not safe to come forward or warp, so you have to jump at him, where omega can change his omega strike from straight forward to an angle to thwart you from coming in, not pretty :lol:

[KaiSingrz]

the day felicia can sandsplash anything on reaction is the day Sakura becomes undisputedly #1 in the game with teleports and Cable becomes #2 by AHVBing everything on reaction. By then, we've all become perfect players and marvel is fun no more. :( But either way, I'd treat Sand Kick and AHVB with around the same caution. Sand kick can be done at closer range when i start orbs than AHVB. If cable tries to shoot my orbs within a 3rd of screen range, he gets knocked out.

Anyway, I've also had my share of felicia players. Sure, they force me to change my game plan. But it's a fight i can still win. The only felicia player who has beaten my strider clean was Jamaal. And that was before evo2k2, when i knew next to nthing about the fight. Also, he had Tron. :bluu:

Speaking of Omega Red, I actually had to play an Omega Red player at evo this year. He wasn't bad. But it was one of those fights i had come prepared for. I just started cyclops at point and out zoned him on the ground and flash kicked him anytime he super jumped. By the time i brought strider in, OR was too weak to really abuse his options, forcing him to DHC to cable or die.

[Remy Saotome]

Originally posted by KaiSingrz
Also, he had Tron. :bluu: LOL, Tron is Felicia's best friend! Under most circumstances, my Felicia team is Felicia (var)/Tron/Sent-y. I only use Felicia (grnd)/Cable/Cyke against StriDooms.

I have to say that I'm quite impressed by Dasrik's knowledge of Felicia. I know Dasrik knows his MvC2 shit, but still... DAMN! Props.
Originally posted by Dasrik
Felicia should NEVER sandsplash Strider's assists. Never. That's just a waste, unless you have a good chance of killing that assist. Course, there's still that safe tag, AND there's always just flat out tagging in Sentinel without really caring either way. What can Felicia do to damage Sent? I have to make a rebuttal to this, however. One, Felicia can HSS Doom. I agree that HSSing Sent is stupid, but Doom takes a solid amount of damage and can be killed in 3. At the very least, land two and you won't see Doom again for a while. Two, Strider random tagging to Sent is stupid. Felicia can snap Strider back in and now both he and Sent have lost all their red. Felicia could counter tag to Cable. Or, Felicia can PHM! Sent, then tag to Cable at the end. At any rate, a random tag to Sent is stupid.

As for the overall topic at large, I think this basically comes down to you've never played expert Felicias and I've never played expert StriDooms. Us talking between each other won't change anyone's mind.

[KaiSingrz]

believe me. Jamaal Bowie is one hell of a Felicia expert and used to bring her out very often in tournies. Now, he just prefers his Blackheart when it comes down to crunch time.

[NinjMai]

As of lately, there have been a large amount of people playing the team of Mags/Cable/Sent.

For me, the only person out of the big 4 that I use is Storm, but she usually can't hold her own against most other good people's characters. Just a hint that I need a lot of work.

Anyways, I use Cammy/Chun-Li/Psylocke since they are my best three together, and I know that they are not the best of a counter team for Mags/Cable/Sent, but I have had success with them. Would any of you have any suggestions for how I can more effectively handle them and other top-tier teams?

I already know that I'll be mocked to high heaven for using these three, particularly Chun-Li, but until I can try learning other new characters, these three are my safest bet. Any help is appreciated.

-NinjMai

[Remy Saotome]

Originally posted by NinjMai
*SNIP* I know you've probably heard this a million times, but learn top tier. In my experience, 90% of the low tier characters will still need at least on good Top Tier at their back. I suggest Sentinel. His ground assist is a pretty universal assist that every character can make some use of. He's overall the most versatile character in the game.

At the very least, you should add some sort of cover assist to that team of yours. It's a very rushdown oriented team, and every character there would benefit. Sent-y, Doom rocks, or even Gambit projectile would help you greatly. Or you could just go with the universal equalizer, Tron projectile.

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by Devil X
theres almost no signs of his warp, he has a duck animation (which is why he can warp on cable standing gun shot on reaction) then he fades. and once he begins to fade its already too late to hit him.The duck animation you refer to is the signal... and yes, you CANNOT input QCF+KK on reaction to that. However, you CAN end all your pressure chains with an empty QCF, wait to see if Strider begins to teleport and hit KK on reaction to that. It's a variation of an old school tactic (psychic DP).

warp around her assist and call your own, and you can start anything you want.If you can't warp on reaction to teleport, you can definitely call AA (and that's where AA comes in handy); alternately, you can call drones at the end of pressure chain so that if Strider teleports he'll have to block drones.

no way sandsplash is better than ahvb vs strider, birds dont get in cables way much you can shoot the birds, you cant shoot the bombs though.I've seen way too many times Cable scrubs try to shoot Strider as soon as they get free only to get beaned by/have to block the bird. Your comp is probably used to the bird so they don't try to get blood from a turnip. Felicia doesn't care how close the bird is, she can always sandsplash.

the reason why ahvb is deadlier is because anytime doom is left unprotected hes dead. and thats pretty much game over. cable should be looking to shoot doom more than actually strider himself, you just need to hit one of the two to win the match up.Well, that is of course a plus to Cable; if he gets a clean shot he'll kill Doom. Then again you can do something similar by playing Felicia/xx/Cable, since Felicia is building a lot of meter on Strider who can't do much, you can build 5 meters and then attempt to counter in Cable for a trade, try to bean Doom and then shoot him down. (BTW, the commonly accepted counter for this doesn't work. Strider has to excalibur way early and it's easy to see this coming and dash forward and shoot Strider instead.)

id like to play some more felicas just to see more on how it plays out, cause i havent yet fought against one i was scared of. and viscant dont count cause he beats me with pretty much any team :mad: Zaza can beat Strider/Doom players pretty consistently with Felicia/Jin/Ken, but one could use the same logic :confused: My Felicia is okay, but I'm not experienced enough against StriDoom, I only know theory. But in the few times I've applied the theory it's worked extremely well.

omega red is a nasty sob on strider, omega strikes , strider has no answer for. underground coil, omeda strike combos when you try to warp +his assists and then he can pressure you while building tons of meter. basically, its not safe to come forward or warp, so you have to jump at him, where omega can change his omega strike from straight forward to an angle to thwart you from coming in, not pretty :lol: I'm pretty sure jump fierce beats omega strike, but you have to time it. Strider has to do a standard rush on OR, and if you don't feel confident of beating strike with jump fierce, jump in and block, then call Doom so he lands on it. If he tries to hit Doom away, you can launch him fairly easily.

[NinjMai]

Originally posted by Remy Saotome
I know you've probably heard this a million times, but learn top tier. In my experience, 90% of the low tier characters will still need at least on good Top Tier at their back. I suggest Sentinel. His ground assist is a pretty universal assist that every character can make some use of. He's overall the most versatile character in the game.

At the very least, you should add some sort of cover assist to that team of yours. It's a very rushdown oriented team, and every character there would benefit. Sent-y, Doom rocks, or even Gambit projectile would help you greatly. Or you could just go with the universal equalizer, Tron projectile.

Thanks for the remarks, and yeah, this now makes it a million and one...

I want to keep Chun-Li and Psy for sure. Chun-Li may be really low-tier, but she is one of the only characters in the game that fits my style of play really well (along with Psylocke).

I might try learning Gambit or even Rogue. Just a couple of ideas to cosider for myself out loud.

-NinjMai

[RowJoe]

I was reading some of the earlier posts and someone mentioned that Scrub and Santhrax are about equal. Has that matchup changed now? I can't see how, if both players are about equal, Santhrax would lose. :confused: I don't know how you're supposed to start these teams in this matchup, but I usually see Cable vs. Storm at the beginning. Obviously, Cable almost always gets owned. So, could someone explain this? I'm not biased (I play both teams regularly), but I'm just curious.

Also, does Santhrax have ANY bad mathcups? Even like a 6-4?

[DeathFromAbove]

Scrub starts Sent against Storm in my experience. I still don't think Scrub > or = Santhrax though. It does force an adjustment, but it's just that, an adjustment.

My counter is Storm/Sent/Cable. I don't know what top players will think of that, but Storm vs. Storm is nearly an even match at the beginning. Once meters go above 2, if I hit her storm it dies and I have Cable left to cope with Sent/Capcom. If I get hit and die, I have 4-5 meters and Cable still on the bench, which is about the best comeback scenario I could hope for.

[RowJoe]

Yeah, I meant to put Storm vs. Sentinel.

Anyway, IMO, Scrub and Santhrax is kind of a random match. Cable should counter Sentinel since he has drones AND CapCom. Then again, Storm outright counters Cable, undoubtedly. :bluu:

Does it just come down to who has the better Sent/CapCom? I would think so.

God, Santhrax is being used by everyone now...

[SBCDyN]

Storm doesn't hard counter cable. Storm v Cable is around 6-4, because Cable doesn't really have any way to catch her running away, but with the lead, Cable has the tools to keep her away. Keep her away better than he can Mags anyways.

[RowJoe]

That's true about the keepaway. But 6-4 seems a little modest. Perhaps 7-3? Whenever Cable throws a grenade, I go for short short LA XX LS. That right there is enough reason for me to favor Storm over Cable. I always see Cable's keeping Storm away for awhile and then barely slipping up and paying for it. That damn combo is too good. :(

If Cable has drones, I have a tough time getting around them with Mags yet a significantly easier time with Storm.

I don't know, maybe our Cable's just suck. :lol:

[SBCDyN]

Originally posted by RowJoe
That's true about the keepaway. But 6-4 seems a little modest. Perhaps 7-3? Whenever Cable throws a grenade, I go for short short LA XX LS. That right there is enough reason for me to favor Storm over Cable. I always see Cable's keeping Storm away for awhile and then barely slipping up and paying for it. That damn combo is too good. :(

If Cable has drones, I have a tough time getting around them with Mags yet a significantly easier time with Storm.

I don't know, maybe our Cable's just suck. :lol:

On a good Cable, there's really no way you're going to connect a short, short xx LA XX LS when they're throwing a grenade. Good Cables let go of grenades right above their head, essentially negating any attack coming from above them/45 degrees from them. In the same respect as you said, one small slip up with Storm and she gets shot. Also, Cable's jump jab is retarded, beats Storm's jump short, and combos into 3xAHVB.

[RowJoe]

Hmm, I know that I always throw TK grenades right in front of Cable, especially against Mags. I think my local comp. doesn't place grenades as well as they ideally should. :bluu:

Do you prefer TK or regular grenades?

[Ho0v-Man]

against team clock, the teams that seem to counter best are:

Matrix

MSP

Scrub

Santhrax

Cyke's assist counters doom, Psylocke and doom assists seem to trade off against one another, and of course that Sent/commando crap is just evil. Team Row can't do jack because there are no good assists on that team to punish any kind of hole in the trap, and besides that, those three are probably some of the easier characters in the game to trap. (but strider must outlive cable!)

[KaiSingrz]

MSP gets countered HARD by Strider/Sent/Doom. Magneto has no angles to rush Strider covered with Sentinel drones and animals.

Oh yeah, and I'd like to change a post i made a few months back. I'd much rather go Strider/Cyke/Doom in that order against Storm/Sent/Cyke. Cyke backed only with one good assist has nothing against Storm backed with two assists which counter Cyke's. At least if I start Strider first, I get an assist which counters one of Storm's, and equals the other.

[Juicy G]

Cyke/sent/Capcom>>>msp

[KaiSingrz]

Originally posted by Juicy G
Cyke/sent/Capcom>>>msp
the truth. I love that team. It's like a new age Team Watts.:D :D

[Storming Flower]

fuck strider he sucks (j/k)

cyke/storm/capcom>>xxx/strider/doom

I have no real reason to believe this other than i've done extremely well with it against sd's.

one anti air cuts through doom, and the other does a lot of damage.

[Ho0v-Man]

Originally posted by KaiSingrz

the truth. I love that team. It's like a new age Team Watts.:D :D
Don't flame me like crazy or anything, but what is team watts?

[Deathfist]

Originally posted by Ho0v-Man

Don't flame me like crazy or anything, but what is team watts?
BH-b, Sent-y, Capcom-b.

[Ho0v-Man]

Hey wouldn't that one team, Spiral/Cable/Sentinel, be a decent counter to Santhrax, or at least better than anything else mentioned. I know it's the perfect counter to team scrub so it should be a decent counter to santhrax, right?

P.S. Strider/ Doom is da' shiz!:D

[DeathFromAbove]

Originally posted by Ho0v-Man
Hey wouldn't that one team, Spiral/Cable/Sentinel, be a decent counter to Santhrax, or at least better than anything else mentioned. I know it's the perfect counter to team scrub so it should be a decent counter to santhrax, right?

P.S. Strider/ Doom is da' shiz!:D
Sent/Capcom >>>>> Spiral/Sent

[Augmint]

Not many good team scrub players where I play, but I'll throw out Cyclops/Sent/Tron as a good team to use vs scrub.

[MeLikeToSmash]

Tron is feared and most likely is always killed with assist kills from with either sent or cable from Scrub. Sentinel Drones should be kept at bay with capcom's AA. Cable owns that team OCV style.

People say that Storm is best vs sent because she has no bad matchups. Cable loses to the rushers with assists. Sent has a bad cable matchup. Mag unless he snaps loses to sent cap. Storm doesnt really lose to anyone.

All these things are said in Theory. Meaning, anyone could land one short short on storm and kill her in a "one hit kill". But logically Storm should win no matter what.

Say for instance someone like mike z picks his team juggz doom tron in whatever order he does. Does that mean he beats someone his skill levels storm sent cap because tron 70% of the time beats out capcom. I DO believe the fear in team santhrax comes from the 100% kill combo with storm/sent combo DHC.

Therefore the best TEAM in the game is Santhrax

The easiest Team to play is Scrub

The most fun team to play is MSP, when you know the dope resets

The most technical team is Row. Row is because cable magz isnt too great of a duo. It can keep nigs at bay, but cant really win matches. You cannot pound on the assist like you could with msp and "get away" with shit. Thats where i say its technical. Your indiviual matchups need to be strong. magz must be capable of setting up his own shit. Sentinel in the air isnt too protected with the two assists here. Cable run away is prevented because of the air dashing people can come in on him with very little resistance.

What do you people think of the team Mag Sent Cyke? A homeboy out in Mesquite uses that team and gets wins with it.

[DeathFromAbove]

Originally posted by MeLikeToSmash
What do you people think of the team Mag Sent Cyke?

Great Sent team. I used to play it, the only gripe I had was that it the DHCs are only meh. Counter->super with Sent-A or Cyke is too good though, just got to remember to counter :sweat:

Edit: It's basically Matrix, same good/bad matchups.

[Augmint]

Originally posted by MeLikeToSmash
Tron is feared and most likely is always killed with assist kills from with either sent or cable from Scrub. Sentinel Drones should be kept at bay with capcom's AA. Cable owns that team OCV style.


I'm not saying this team was a direct counter team. It has trouble against cable starting, but once you land a hit with cykes(yes its difficult), use Tron and DHC & your close to 100%.

Commando stays out for along time after captain corridor, Tron leaves the screen almost immediately after the 3rd ring. Cyclops and sent can definetley protect their assists alot better than what your implying. One hit with Tron on Commando 25-30%, if he's called out soon after- Tron, SOB DHC HSF and he's dead. So saying that Tron will get Punished without acknowledging what can be done to commando is wrong. Saying "Most Likely" is just being flippant.

Also, Sent & Tron vs Cable and Commando is far from an OCV.
If you think otherwise, well then I won't try and change your mind.

[Jake]

Originally posted by Augmint


One hit with Tron on Commando 25-30%, if he's called out soon after- Tron, SOB DHC HSF and he's dead. So

You got a surefire method of making hsf juggle the assist after beaming them with sob? To me there's just way too many things to worry about, pushblock, jumping in the way of drones, etc. And shit even when they do nothing, the assist just seems to fall out of it anyways because the drones are hitting the point blocking. There might be a way though with use of an assist or whatnot to knock them in the air and then sob them in the air or something wierd, if you got somethin I'd really like to hear it.

[Augmint]

Originally posted by Jake


You got a surefire method of making hsf juggle the assist after beaming them with sob? To me there's just way too many things to worry about, pushblock, jumping in the way of drones, etc. And shit even when they do nothing, the assist just seems to fall out of it anyways because the drones are hitting the point blocking. There might be a way though with use of an assist or whatnot to knock them in the air and then sob them in the air or something wierd, if you got somethin I'd really like to hear it.

Late reply.
SOB to HSF (juggling assist)seems to work only in the corner - although I can recall it doing so full screen as well - even with pushblocking.
So I geuss it ain't guaranteed :(

Still its a good team to punish assists. Give it a try.

[atothex]

Does Matrix have any counters? That team seems so solid...

[DeathFromAbove]

Originally posted by Trey15
How does Team Steroids do vs. MSP?
Better than you think. Armor lets bigmen block high all the time and not worry about low short. Colossus Dash is a straight counterassist for Psylocke. Also, LA XX LS doesn't work at all near the ground. Jugg has an opener that even Mag has to respect, and Hulk can fight Storm a little. My experience is that Psylocke loses health too fast against the big guys.

My verdict: Bigmen 6-4 over MSP.

[Mixup]

large characters vulnerable to cross-ups with no instant aaa 6-4 with mag/psy?

gross

[Mizter Ed]

MSP is the main course for Juggs/Hulk/Colossus.:evil:

[Mixup]

Originally posted by Mizter Ed
MSP is the main course for Juggs/Hulk/Colossus.:evil:

maybe YOUR crazy ass team big

but on the whole, nasty match up

[slider01010]

i think taht the one of the best counters to team tsilts and scrob is Cable/storm(veriety)/doom aaa that is nisce counter/lockdown. and good damage!

[slider01010]

i can't spell

[DeathFromAbove]

Originally posted by Mixup
large characters vulnerable to cross-ups with no instant aaa 6-4 with mag/psy?

gross

Yeah, absolutely. Maybe not YOUR crazy ass Magneto. :p

Being wide makes Jugg LESS vulnerable to crossups, not more. Also, see original post.