C-Groove Rolento

[Drag]

C-Groove Rolento seems to be a contender now. I can understand that he's good, but is C his best groove?

What does he gain from C besides airblock and being able to sit on the tripwire?

I'm guessing because you don't need a full meter like you do in A-Groove, that the AC helps him out a lot. Whenever you feel threatened, bust out the AC. Similar to A3 Rol.

But is all this enough to warrant the loss of CC (A-Groove) and JD/Run/Rage (K-Groove)?

Are there any lvl2 cancel tricks that he can abuse?

I'm going to start picking him now to see what all the fuss is about.

[epsilon_]

Yes C is his best groove, and he's been a contender. He has one of the best AC's in the game, and builds meter even faster for the already fast C groove.

[Ouroborus]

A groove is better

[Drag]

But is that it? Is it just a safer groove to play in, and you abuse ACs to stay even safer? Just hardcore poking/zoning?

It just seems boring to me. No quick get up, no CCs to play with, no littlejump/run/JD. But that's just my opinion.. Prolly why I do better in the other grooves.

[ShinNeosnake]

Well, just some BG info on me since this IS my first post here, I am no scrub, I play K groove, but I've been using C groove for fun, and on my C team, I use Rolento. I've never seen a good C Rolento (video wise or in real life) but I have seen a good A groove Rolento in real life (Josh Wong's)

So far, My Rolento depends on runaway and poking to win (Which is what Rolento IS supposed to do, think Storm in MvC2)

So far, I may be wrong but I'd have to say A Rolento is better than C Rolento, A rolento has CC's which are safe when blocked and do good guard damage, do a decent amount of damage when connecting, and are good to play mind games with (Josh Wong activated, threw the opponent with the Bomb throw and did Steel Rain afterwards, on several occasions) and Rolento builds meter so well, that he can activate about 2 times in a round if he started with empty meter.

[LZJ]

i like A groove rolento. but i think C is really good too. he makes the most out of the airblock since hes constantly hopping around with scooter jumps and wall hops so its nice to have airblock. but i really dont see how this groove does damage. i havent seen anybody play that can combo tripwire from jabs to low medium kick or even straight from jabs besides shiro. and even he doesnt deal that much damage with rolento. his sagat and yamazaki are the characters i see doing damage. but rolento does have a really good level1. his level1 tripwire beats any move if the opponent is close enough. but high damage custom and random activation is a better choice for me.

[Drag]

really? Does lvl1 tripwire come out instantly after the flash?

[LZJ]

yeah. but it only hits if theyre right next to you and on the ground.

[lifetimeboy]

P groove rolento is really good. He can parry into combo or super from max range. He has anti jump in parry crossup setups up the ying yang. I'm working on a P rolento Video now. It should be out soon. Most of the time you try for a counter hit jab, then it's pretty easy to go low forward xx trip wire.

I learned from the master of P rolento himself, Bouya......

LTB

[popoblo]

yea i was amused by this guy at evo playing P-rolento. he would just scouter jump back into the pogo hop to build meter. if somebody threw a fireball, he'd just parry it. he'd get about 4 or 5 pogo hops (decent meter) off, then they'd super jump at him and throw out an obvious attack, then he'd parry that into crouching mk, patriot circles for MORE meter:lol:

[Ouroborus]

i honestly think P-Rolento > C-Rolento.

Sure C-Rolento has three alpha counters (which is probably the best alpha counter) in the game but P-Rolento has low jump mp, which is one of the best low jumps in the game. P-Rolento seems to deal damage more consistently due to his low jumps and parry into c.mk xx patriot circle/trip wire.

any opinions on this?

A rolento still is the best tho.

[Gunter]

A Groove is his best at LOW levels.

At HIGH levels, C is probably his best... but N is also good. Haven't seen TOO many P-Groove Rolentos, but I imagine it would be up there.

[Ouroborus]

and the big question:

how/why?

[Gunter]

At high levels, it's extremely hard for Rolento to use his meter in A-Groove. You have either comboing off of knife or springboard fierce (NOT likely), random activation (not guaranteed), and post-GC (lots of work). You can also combo from a deep j.roundhouse, but good players won't let you land that either.

C-Groove has many more ways to land his super. He can jump back and airblock late and trip wire when they land (not 100% guaranteed, but works a lot); he can combo off of far s.forward; he can pressure you with s.jabs until one counter hits, then do c.forward super; he can jump in with strongs, and can read a book while seeing if it hits or not, then can either go straight into super or do a c.forward first. He also has 3 alpha counters to use up his meter, which he'll get back by running away anyway.

In addition to these uses of meter, he has airblock to protect him while he's running away, he has RCs to help him run away and get out of pressure situations, and he has his quick dash which helps to setup either a throw or a counter hit s.jab. A-Groove has 2 of those features, but doesn't have airblock, and doesn't have the many options that C has to use his meter. C also allows for quick comebacks, as the time taken off the clock to do any of his combos into super is MUCH less than the time taken off to do his custom.

[twitch077]

ill have to disagree a groove is for me his best groove seeing how his cc's are easy do good damage and he can gain bar really well plus i dont think he has a good level 2 cancel plus he can runaway easily

[Gunter]

Originally posted by twitch077
ill have to disagree a groove is for me his best groove seeing how his cc's are easy do good damage and he can gain bar really well plus i dont think he has a good level 2 cancel plus he can runaway easily

A-Groove may be good for you against the ppl you play against. I'm talking about high levels, as in Japan and NorCal, and their respective national tournaments (since when commenting on "the best" you have to look at him being used by "the best"). His CC is good, but the problem is LANDING it. You will not be able to get a CC off via random activation against a good player. Nowadays you MUST be able to combo into your CC, or at least do an Anti-Air CC in order fo you to get it off. Rolento can't do either of those very well. The MAJORITY of the time you're going to activate, get your CC blocked, and all you'll end up doing is getting their guard bar down a bit. Good players won't mind that at all, especially compared to the damage of/threat of the CC.

And you don't have to do Level 2 cancels in order to be good in C-Groove. The important things are he has RCs, uses airblock effectively, gets three alpha counters, has the dash 50/50 and the ability to combo into a level 3 off of one hit.

[twitch077]

i understand wat ur saying but i think that u do need good level 2 cancels (cammy guile etc) and rolento just doesnt have one and i know u have very good players in nor cal etc but up here we have some seriously awesome players all i can say is that while rolento does have a prob nowadayz landing cc's i still find A-groove benefits him more

[ShinNeosnake]

Hell, the way I play Rolento, he doesnt deal much damage, bt thats cuz I dont use him that well, I do lots of Scouter jumps into strongs (The twirl) I do the QCB+K move to get out of the corner, the main way I gain meter is either c.mkXXPatriot Circle X3. or by walking up to them and s.jab, c.strong and and j.strong also build good meter.

I agree that there is not real L2 cancel for Rolento, but he doesnt need one. Blanka doesnt really have one either (only one I can think of is L2 Ground Shave into L1 Direct Lightning) but hes still good in C.

[Gwai Lo ½]

It seems to me that rolento has a lot of the same options to land his cc as he does in c-groove, although I dont believe they are as strong.

I know i've comboed into cc a couple of times with rolento although no one has believed me on this point (i did it after 2 jabs.. which is the point that had some skepticism). Counter hitting a jab is definately enough time to activate and low forward, although it might not be as easy to do as low forward xx super (which imo still needs fairly good reaction time).

Also, I've seen rolento activate after a jumping medium. But I dont use this so I dont know the exact properties (how deep it has to be compared to what is requried for a low forward/Level 3)

I haven't seen any c-rolento, so I wont say which I think is better (as I have no clue).. I just wanted to bring up these points...

[lifetimeboy]

I think that Rolento benifits most from short jumps and having a dash. The only groove that has that combination is P. Plus you can combo into super or Patriot's from max range. Parry let's you get into and out of situations that are advantageous/disadvantageous respectively. Also, you keep your super, so you can run away and build meter, that by it self is a threat. Rolento has a 3 frame c. jab that can be 2 in 1'ed into the trip wire from max range, which is very large and can punish things into super that others cannot(bison flip kicks).

[epsilon_]

No alpha counter, quick lv3's (if no CC), and RC isn't good... P rolento CAN be good but C and A are better.

[twitch077]

also just to add rolento has numerous mind games to set up CC's.... and blanka also doesnt have a good level 2 cancel but it doesnt matter cuz hes blanka :lol:

[taesty]

LTB mentioned, rolento's dash is really good and deceptive....

Blanka level 2 cancel: kick super cancelled into level 1 blanka ball super. (aka Kim) If timed right, you could even cancel it into a regular blanka ball...

Oh and if you guys want to see any decent C-rolentos, then I guess the only one who comes to mind is Kim.... don't really see other C-rolentos here....


random post.

[Ouroborus]

Wasn't one of the benefits of A groove being able to blow thru attacks? Blowing thru attacks of predictable attacks should be as good as punishing a whiff with a poke into super.

Rolento can do that really well since his crouching forward is faster than say, blanka's.

even if you miss your CC, you can still try to get some damage against an opponent with some mix up.

I still dont think Rolento benefits that much with air block. his wall jump (qcb+k) already doesnt give him air block and he shouldnt be meeting his opponents air to air since his air to air game is sorta lacking.

[lifetimeboy]

not only is his dash fast but he has an increased throw range as well.

[Drag]

Couldn't you link CC after counterhit jab?

[twitch077]

i dont think it has to be counterhit gwai said before after 2 jabs u can cc

[Drag]

He's the only person in the world that can do it. No offense to Gwai Lo.. but the rest of the world will have to settle for a counterhit I think. (I missed his post anyway, sorry Gwai)

I know I can't do it anyways.

I was just trying to bring up a point about Gunter's argument for C-Rolento. He said the only was you land CC is off j.RH, knife or springboard fierce, or random activate.

I don't see why you can't activate after his crossup.. it's tight, but doable. counter-hit jab can lead to CC.

BS like meaty slide "holy crap it worked!" meaty strong?

Anti-air ground CC is about as garaunteed as random CC. If he had a good anti-air CC A would definitely be the best. :(

[Gunter]

Originally posted by Ouroborus
Wasn't one of the benefits of A groove being able to blow thru attacks? Blowing thru attacks of predictable attacks should be as good as punishing a whiff with a poke into super.

Rolento can do that really well since his crouching forward is faster than say, blanka's.

Blow thru activation is a guessing game. It's not always guaranteed. Against someone with a fully charged A-Groove meter, you'll usually see good players poke with only their fastest pokes. And against Blanka, you don't want to ever do a ground to ground CC activation starting with c.forward, because he can cancel his pokes (c.short definitely, most likely also c.forward, but most of the time they'll be using short precisely TO bait) into his back hop. Plus, against any other A-Groove character with a ground CC, they'll be ready to counter CC.



even if you miss your CC, you can still try to get some damage against an opponent with some mix up.


So instead of guaranteed damage comboing into a level 3 super, you want to try to get "some damage" (i.e. less damage than normal due to CC scaling). C-Rolento has much more reward for much less risk. But if you want to make it hard on yourself, go right ahead.


I still dont think Rolento benefits that much with air block. his wall jump (qcb+k) already doesnt give him air block and he shouldnt be meeting his opponents air to air since his air to air game is sorta lacking.

You aren't using air block correctly. You are thinking air block in the middle of a jump. Air block at the beginning of the jump is almost like a parry. THAT is what makes his air block good. Late air block, land with trip wire is a good trick that will work more often than not.

[Gunter]

Originally posted by Drag
He said the only was you land CC is off j.RH, knife or springboard fierce, or random activate.

I don't see why you can't activate after his crossup.. it's tight, but doable. counter-hit jab can lead to CC.


I'm sorry, do I have to list every single jump in as a setup for his CC? I only used j.rh because it's his most common. But of course he can do it after fierce, and roundhouse, even strong (although it's a waste). If you can combo a ground combo off of a jump in (with ANY character, to my knowledge), you can combo a CC. I thought ppl didn't need to be told that. I guess I was wrong.


Anti-air ground CC is about as garaunteed as random CC. If he had a good anti-air CC A would definitely be the best. :(

Most players nowadays look for anti-tripguard CC with Rolento, so they'll empty jump a lot. They may eat a strong here and there but it's better than the CC. And the precise fact that his anti-air CC options are almost non-existent (RC knife against N, S, and no meter A; air guardbreak against C and hope they don't take the hit, hope and pray they weren't baiting your anti-tripguard CC, etc.) is what makes C a better groove for him. Much less work for the damage you get.

[RagingStormX]

C-cancel: lvl2 tripwire, qcb+p,p

[LZJ]

Originally posted by RagingStormX
C-cancel: lvl2 tripwire, qcb+p,p

sorry but this doesnt work

[Black Out]

P Rolento!!! The best! ok my random post for the new year.

[lifetimeboy]

why??? Who's P rolento did you see??

[Assassin Inc187]

i do have to agree with gunter on the c-groove rolento, but i fell that n-groove rolento is underrated. You have a nice little trap. try this out some time guys when your at the arcade or playin friends at the house. Pop then set yourself up to do a c.mk into the patriot circles but time them so they are a bit apart(this is all on block). then when they think that they can get a free hit in you just do the tripwire. plus SJ.mp into tripwire is really nice to.

[ShinNeosnake]

Originally posted by Assassin Inc187
plus SJ.mp into tripwire is really nice to.

Thats an unblockable, SJ.mp hits high and when you land you do the tripwire, which hits low, they cant block both. Sorta like a Ghetto version of Sagats SJ.rh, Tiger Raid

[Gunter]

Originally posted by ShinNeosnake


Thats an unblockable, SJ.mp hits high and when you land you do the tripwire, which hits low, they cant block both. Sorta like a Ghetto version of Sagats SJ.rh, Tiger Raid

?????????????????????????????

[Assassin Inc187]

please explain to me how it is. i always thought it was a combo. :confused:

[Black Out]

Originally posted by lifetimeboy
why??? Who's P rolento did you see??

sup man, i'm trinhs friend from san jose.


i didn't see anybody in particular.

i know of only two p rolentos around nor cal.... me and ssome other guy.

[lifetimeboy]

Hella ya, Trinh's one of my best friends.......we were just practicing tonight!!

Keep it up with the rolento!!!

LTB

[Drunken Master]

It's hard to block, because the transfer from high to low is so quick, but it's not unblockable.

[ShinNeosnake]

I heard it was unblockable, but Im talking about small jump, not super jump, sorry if that confused you. Take Sagat's small jump roundhouse, when blocked, you land and the opponent is still in blockstun (I'd guess due to Frame advantage) and you when activate Tiger Raid, it hits low when the opponent is still blocking up. I just heard, I never tried on anyone before.

[Drunken Master]

You heard right. And I remember the idea being thrown about when the game first came out.

But I don't believe it. Just go into training mode an try it out.

Make the dummy do the deepest possible little jump attack, then super when you land. Then trying blocking it. You might screw it up a few times and get hit, but you'll see that it is indeed blockable.

[ShinNeosnake]

Hell, why not set the dummy to auto guard all and then perform it, if it is indeed blockable the dummy should be able to block it.

[Drunken Master]

Because the dummy has cheat-block. That's why. :)

If you execute a lvl3 next to the dummy while it's NOT already blocking, it will block the attack. You can make it walk forward, and it will still block. People can't do that. It also makes it garaunteed to block it from high to low.

The best way to check is to get a human to try it (ie: you).

[ShinNeosnake]

But the humna is more prone to mind games, etc. Rarely will a computer get hit by an overhead move on wakeup after a knockdown, but often humans do. there are flaws with both humans and computer, I will trust the computer to block it though rather than a human attempt to block it.

[Drunken Master]

Dude, WTF are you talking about. This has nothing to do with hitting the compueter when they get up, or mind games or whatever.

The issue here is "unblockable" tripwire after little j.MP. (Or other so-called unbloackable stuff after little jumps)

I said it didn't work. It's hard to block, but not truly unblockable. If the little jump attack CONNECTS and is deep enough, then yes the super will combo. But if it is blocked, you can block the super.

The theory behind little jump then unblockable is that the jump in attack makes you stand up and block. When you land you activate the super and they are "frozen" standing up during your super flash. Since the super hits low, and they're frozen standing up, voila. Unblockable.

The reason you can't use the dummy-all block to test it is because it has cheat block. They can block the super if they're standing, but WE CAN'T. Which is what the theory is all about. So it's pointless to test it that way. The best way to check is to try it yourself.

[ragnafrak]

there are no unblockables in this game, nor is it difficult to block a jumping attack followed by a low attack

its pretty easy to block ken crossup j.MK -> c.LK is it not, that's a faster transition from overhead to low than j.MP -> tripwire by far

[CrimsonDisaster]

It's not unblockable if they block low BEFORE the super comes out.
But once the super flash occurs, if they were still standing, they can't go to down block for a bit after the flash- in short, the super is for all purposes unblockable.

Rolento lj.strong, L3 tripwire is a fairly annoying thing to block- block low too early and you might eat a hit from the strong and get hit by the tripwire for free. Block low too late and you get tripwired. And that's assuming you block lj.strong in the first place.

Hard to block, but not unblockable. Rolento's works more often than Sagat's, though.

[DeAdSpAcE]

Originally posted by ShinNeosnake
But the humna is more prone to mind games, etc. Rarely will a computer get hit by an overhead move on wakeup after a knockdown, but often humans do. there are flaws with both humans and computer, I will trust the computer to block it though rather than a human attempt to block it.

It's not an unblockable and if you're going to bring mindgames into the issue here then you contradict your point about an unblockable to begin with. Instead of talking about it go try it yourself if you haven't yet.

[popoblo]

*bump*

C-rolento can punish honda's headbutt by doing late air block, then crouching mk into a) patriot circles or b) trip wire.

peace

[(THE) Geese]

Uh just wondering about something. I was using C-Rolento today (which is by far the best Rolento), and I was messing around with jab x 3, c. forward xx trip wire or Patriot Circles. It didn't seem that hard at all. Is all that shit a 2 frame link or 1 frame or what?

nm, the jabs are 2 frame and the c. forward is 1. The c. forward seems a helluva lot easier then linking blanka c. shorts though

[popoblo]

C-rolento is a BEAST. rolento has the best 50/50 mixup ever. walk up, and either A) throw or B) counter hit standing jab, crouching forward, super or patriot circles.

the more complicated you get with rolento, the more you're going to lose. don't do telegraphed block strings, you'll get owned. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO LEARN WITH ROLENTO- be able to recognize counter hit standing jabs, then follow up with the options listed above. it's that simple.

and when people have a full bar with A-rolento, they like to randomly activate and burn it. you're almost guaranteed at least 1 free throw when you have a full bar because people are so scared of walk up activate or jump in activate. then they start to hit buttons, then you work the counter hit standing jab game. ONLY activate when you know it's guaranteed.

peace

[Sage]

*bump*

C-rolento can punish honda's headbutt by doing late air block, then crouching mk into a) patriot circles or b) trip wire.

peace

Sorry but this doesnt work outside of the corner. :confused:
edit: forgot no point trying to post here. popobloooooooooo!

[SmoothCat]

Sorry but this doesnt work outside of the corner. :confused:
popoblooooooooooooo " thats no good my friend" :sad:

[popoblo]

why am i such a scrub? yea, that chicken block shit definitely doesn't work against honda, my bad :sad:

[cheese_master]

Can't rolento just do a lvl3 super after blocking a headbutt, and it connects?

[Kuprin]

It's not unblockable if they block low BEFORE the super comes out.
But once the super flash occurs, if they were still standing, they can't go to down block for a bit after the flash- in short, the super is for all purposes unblockable.

Rolento lj.strong, L3 tripwire is a fairly annoying thing to block- block low too early and you might eat a hit from the strong and get hit by the tripwire for free. Block low too late and you get tripwired. And that's assuming you block lj.strong in the first place.

Hard to block, but not unblockable. Rolento's works more often than Sagat's, though.

If this is true, then there's a nasty mind game just waiting to be played here against people afraid of lj.strong, tripwire. Since we know they're going to block low right after the lj.strong, throw 'em for free. Repeat until they stop blocking low. Then it's tripwire time.

[epsilon_]

^lol that doesnt work repeatedly by any means, MAYBE twice.

low jump mp has extended lag on it, which you cancel with the tripwire, if you're not doing it, they can jump away or counter poke you for free when you land.