Weird overhead porperties...

[Inigma]

Sorry if this is common knowledge...

But I was playing Akuma vs Akuma match (Actually JR's Akuma) and there was a situation where I think he was knocked down... I was trying for a pointblank kara Demon, when he woke up with a Demon... Well the super pause caused me to miss my Demon and made me do his overhead instead... Well, when the game came back on instead of being grabbed I was actually being pushed back by his Demon until I hit him out of it...

After playing around with it a little more afterwards, it seems that his overhead is almost unthrowable... Now granted I wouldn't really try this against something like Gigas or anything but this does open his dash games more... Dashing into overhead will completely blow by your opponent's counterthrow attempt's... You will be right next to them and you can see their throw whiff right through you (Even kara throws) and you will hit them... There are a few other characters that has this type of attacks as well... Urien stand roundhouse does this as well, but his "makes" sense sorta since he kinda backs up a little for his attack but it still gets grabbed by kara throws...

[BillyKane]

Yeah, toward strong is unthrowable on arcade, I remember SlimX mentioning it a while ago. He said it was "fixed" on DC I think.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, that'd make his kara-throw and kara-demon even better theorically (unthrowable start-up + awesome range). Is he considered unthrowable as soon as the move starts coming out?

[SlimX]

At least at the point the move really starts to come out (past the kara point), he is. Maybe before, but it's hard to test. And it lasts until the attack has finished. It does work against Gigas. It works against everything. It's insane. Even if you parry both hits, if you immediately try to use a throw/grab (like Gigas), it'll still whiff.

Yeah, fixed on DC along with Necro back throw Dudley glitch, Ken neutral throw KO Makto glitch, Remy neutral throw Urien through Aegis glitch, etc.

[Inigma]

Originally posted by SlimX
At least at the point the move really starts to come out (past the kara point), he is. Maybe before, but it's hard to test. And it lasts until the attack has finished. It does work against Gigas. It works against everything. It's insane. Even if you parry both hits, if you immediately try to use a throw/grab (like Gigas), it'll still whiff.

Yeah, fixed on DC along with Necro back throw Dudley glitch, Ken neutral throw KO Makto glitch, Remy neutral throw Urien through Aegis glitch, etc.

Thanks for the info... Also I am not sure what the before kara range is but when the other player demon'd my Akuma had just started animating for his overhead... Maybe it can not be thrown on semi-instant start-up...

Also one question? Can you be able to buffer a stored Demon to counter supers? Like Q can do blocked jab rush against Ken and as long as I buffer his super motion (The rush super) even if Ken reversal supers me I can just mash on punches during the super freeze and I come out with my super to counter his... It seems to store the motion for the super but when I try something like that, but with Demon it doesn't seem to store the inputs... For instance I would low roundhouse against a Chun Li and I would try to bait the super out when they block it... But then thing is that I have to know that they will super for me to Demon them, if not then I just burned my meter for nothing... I guess what I am trying to say is this: Is there a way to store your Demon so that if the opponent supers I can just mash on fierce to activate a "stored" Demon?

[KnowSkillz]

probably not, when the screen flashes from someone's super, all your commands become nullified.

[Inigma]

Originally posted by KnowSkillz
probably not, when the screen flashes from someone's super, all your commands become nullified.

But the game still store's your super motion... Q can have his jab rush blocked, you buffer the super motion in case they try something, Ken does a reversal super then during dark screen you mash on the punches and your super will still come out to counter his... The game seems to store super motion inputs but maybe not button inputs... I am trying to find out if that is the case or I am just not doing something that will store the inputs for Demon...

[KnowSkillz]

I haven't heard of this Q thing before.
Since jab rush is cancelled into super, maybe you have no recovery from the jab rush since you cancelled to super so you are able to do this. Or are you sure you don't press the button before the flash?

But I know if a chunli blocks your sweep she can reversal you cause you're still recovering, unless the chunli did her super reversal a bit late.

[Inigma]

Originally posted by KnowSkillz
I haven't heard of this Q thing before.
Since jab rush is cancelled into super, maybe you have no recovery from the jab rush since you cancelled to super so you are able to do this. Or are you sure you don't press the button before the flash?

But I know if a chunli blocks your sweep she can reversal you cause you're still recovering, unless the chunli did her super reversal a bit late.

Q's jab rush if blocked (I am almost sure) you can not counter him afterwards... Seeing as how Ken's super is one of the fastest in the game, even if he reversal's the super after blocking the jab rush you can block it... So if I buffer the super motion afterwards, all I do is look for the character to move or whatever then I react with a button press to super it... But with the super freeze the motion is still stored and I just press the punch buttons during the super freeze and when the game comes back my super starts up...

As for the Chun Li reversal super... The thing is, that is what I want them to do... But with Akuma's Demon properties being able to cancel from anything I just cancel the recovery of the low roundhouse and I counter her super with my Demon... The problem I run into with this is that, I HAVE to cancel Demon no matter if they super or not if I want it to come out, basically I have to guess if they will super my low roundhouse... I can't buffer most of the inputs and wait to see the super flash to hit the fierce to activate the Demon to counter, unless there is a timing issue and I am messing it up... Cause if you can store his Demon to counter supers on reaction then at least Akuma can be able to use his low roundhouse without fear of being reversal supered...

[KnowSkillz]

Originally posted by Inigma


Q's jab rush if blocked (I am almost sure) you can not counter him afterwards... Seeing as how Ken's super is one of the fastest in the game, even if he reversal's the super after blocking the jab rush you can block it... So if I buffer the super motion afterwards, all I do is look for the character to move or whatever then I react with a button press to super it... But with the super freeze the motion is still stored and I just press the punch buttons during the super freeze and when the game comes back my super starts up...

As for the Chun Li reversal super... The thing is, that is what I want them to do... But with Akuma's Demon properties being able to cancel from anything I just cancel the recovery of the low roundhouse and I counter her super with my Demon... The problem I run into with this is that, I HAVE to cancel Demon no matter if they super or not if I want it to come out, basically I have to guess if they will super my low roundhouse... I can't buffer most of the inputs and wait to see the super flash to hit the fierce to activate the Demon to counter, unless there is a timing issue and I am messing it up... Cause if you can store his Demon to counter supers on reaction then at least Akuma can be able to use his low roundhouse without fear of being reversal supered...

Actually ken's super is really low priority but the start up is as fast as most supers.

(This is my explaination to what I think you're saying)
Anyways firstly, if you block a jab rush punch ken can sa3 reversal it because jab rush punch actually has 16frames of recovery leaving you quite open, since ken's sa3 only comes out in 3 frames so Q is pretty much screwed, not only this but when ken blocks a jab rush his block stun is -2frames. This means you can't block an sa3 reversal after a blocked jabrush(but you said you can block the sa3 afterwards then it isn't a reversal, the ken must be attempting it too slow).

And the Akuma thing, no I'm pretty sure you can't. Like I said your inputs are nullified during the flash, you said buffer motion is still stored(im not 100% sure on that) but you gotta remember demon input isn't just joystick motion.
If it was it'd be rather overpowered, pressing most of the demon command(or infact any super) everytime you block someones c.mk then mashing on a button if they do super so your super beats it.....:confused:

[BillyKane]

I never actually tested this, but I don't think you can reversal SA3 after a blocked jab rush punch since it's listed as -2 on block (reversal SA3 has at least 2 frame-start up, so Q should always be able to block it). You're reading the frame data chart wrong, the "recovery" column refers to whiffed moves, the "blocked advantage" column is the only relevant one here.

[KnowSkillz]

hm I think you're right, I always thought it was the block stun for the move. But then why is he talking about ken's super reversal? :confused:

[Inigma]

Originally posted by KnowSkillz
hm I think you're right, I always thought it was the block stun for the move. But then why is he talking about ken's super reversal? :confused:

I'm just using an example that's all... Just trying to figure out if inputs are stored like motions are I guess...

[(THE) Geese]

Originally posted by KnowSkillz
jab rush punch actually has 16frames of recovery leaving you quite open

LOL.