Street Fighter 4 [Archive] - Page 2

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Ultima

08-17-2005, 06:23 AM

I agree with everything that Spider-Dan says, cause he's my hero (well, my other hero. Viscant is my first hero. ^_^).

And yeah: "Holy shit it's Spider-Dan!"

I haven't seen Bleach, but yeah: From a practical standpoint, cell-shaded is probably the best course for Capcom. Ultra-realism has never been SF's standpoint, not even back when they were shade more "realistically" in SF2. However, I'm not sure if any of the current generation games are sufficient to showcase what SF4 should look like (but again, as noted, I haven't seen Bleach). The cell shading that got my attention and made me go "HOLY SHIT" was the new Appleseed movie. I've only seen it in previews, but from what I've seen, that's the kind of quality that SF4 should be aiming for.

Hey Dan, you should come over to HerV (www.highervoltage.net/mb - only the forums work right now). It's not as bad as some people (?) claim it is. Even Viscant shows up occasionally. :p

Turtle Guile:

> The SF2 series was quite appealing despite the lack of universal options...

That's because we didn't know any better. Not to knock SF2, but it got away with things that nothing post-SF2 could possibly get away with, simply because it was the first.

> If a game makes millions in profit, does that mean that it's impenetrable to the public? No. I think my idea would make things better. Innovation is important if Capcom wants to revitalize SF. Different meters is the next step.

No. Different meters unnnecessarily complicates things. The average gamer, those who are even familiar with SF at this point, think SF is already too much of a "science" already. The game needs to be easy to learn, but difficult to master. If the game is difficult to learn, then you'll be isolating your userbase even more.

re: options

> Yep, I was thinking of something like that where some people can dash, run, roll, something like a parry for grapplers that can't get them knocked down, and etc. But not to every character.

Well, as I said, you can do character-specific stuff in limited doses. Like, give one character a dodge, and one character a roll, and one character a parry (but of course, they get penalized in other ways). But this isn't across the board. Maybe one character will get to run instead of dash. But For the majority of the cast, their basic options are the same. From what you're suggesting, you want either all or most of the characters to be widly different, going so far as to give them different meters. That's not the way. That will just confuse people. You can't be that overt. Subtlety will go a long way here. Give every character the same basic options, but include certain features that are unique to some. Much like, in the Vs. games, some characters can air dash, some have 8-way air dash, some can double jump, etc.

> Also, the more offensive the character is, the more overhead options he/she gets is another example of character specificness.

A character can be extremely offensive (LOL) without having overhead options. See also: Balrog in ST.

> > GG* series has the most unique characters ever, but it still has a ton of universal options.

> Explain to me how the GG characters can be so unique from a gameplay standpoint with all these universal options.

I'm afraid you'd just have to play the game. It's difficult to explain in writing (though someone else more familiar with the series could give it a try), but trust me in that most (all?) of the characters are very different. Much of what I described earlier is done in GG* series actually: Potemkin can't dash forward, Slayer has an invincible dash, some characters can triple air jump or double air dash, Jam gets power up cards, Johnny has coin tricks, etc. But the only character who is wildly different at the basic level is Robo-Ky, since he doesn't have a tension (super) gauge, but a "steam gauge", that affects many of his moves. That's one out of, what, 23? 25 characters? Can't remember. Anyway, that's the frequency with which you get to go really different with characters. If you have 20 or so characters, maybe 1 or 2 can be really different at the basic level (not that they all can't be wildly different at a higher level, but you still need to have a common base). If every character in GG was as different from each other as Robo-Ky is to the rest of the cast, I don't think anyone but the hardcore of hardcore would play it. It would be too technical for its own good.

In addition, having different characters being really at the basic level doesn't guarantee that they will all be balanced.

And furthermore, if balance if a key feature, your game would likely be impossible to test, or else take so goddamn long to come out that it would be irrelevent by the time it is released.

ABASI

08-17-2005, 07:53 AM

to throw in my 2 cent if you look at the upgrade from sfII to alpha and from alpha to sf3, sf4 will be something new that we wouldn't expect.

ABASI! :cool:

p.s. i heard ryu was the only returning character from the ORIGINAL cast. i thought that meant everyone from sfII expect ryu, we all can count out. but the new characters from the alpha and sf3 games may make appearances

polarity

08-17-2005, 08:10 AM

God, will you people stop posting shit like "I HEARD ______!" Everything you "heard" is almost definitely an unsubstantiated rumor, and definitely not official. There's no reason to believe anything you heard from some random-ass post on a message board :rolleyes:

ABASI

08-17-2005, 10:45 AM

MeanGreen

08-17-2005, 11:01 AM

if they create a new cast of characters for sf4 i will be using whatever character has moves involving picking you up and slamming you into oblivion 360 720

polarity

08-17-2005, 12:01 PM

then where the hell else am i suppost to get my info? what the hell do i come here for then? i thought i came here to hear what was new? but if i can nolonger do that the what good is the site? everything that is reported is all hearsay until the game is out. so what is so wrong with what we heard. hell isn't that why you post hear cuz, to hear whats new about street fight 4?

no disrespect i just thought your post was wrong.

"UNDERSTAND"ABASI! :cool:

There's rumors and then there's some guy pulling stuff out of his ass. I'm not gonna buy a rumor posted by some random guy on a forum; I won't even believe most rumors post on major gaming sites, though at least those have a little more weight to them as they're more likely to be contacted by industry sources. Everything's hearsay until the game's out? Uh, in case you haven't noticed, the OFFICIAL hype and release of information for a game begins long before the game is out. My point is, Capcom has released no info, I don't recall any rumors posted by even remotely credible games sites about SF4, so what the hell is the point in posting shit like "I heard this!"?

yimaxi

08-17-2005, 12:09 PM

http://www.the-magicbox.com/gaming.htm

"
UNCONFIRMED: Japanese arcade retailers posted a list of arcade titles that will be exhibited at the upcoming JAMMA arcade show in Japan in September, the list is said to be around 80% accurate.

Banpresto

Chou DragonBall Z (System 246, Spike)
Mobile Suit Gundam 0079 Card Builder (Naomi 2)

Capcom
Street Fighter 4 (AtomisWave)
Donkey Kong: Jungle Fever (TriForce)
"

Ryu Kazama

08-17-2005, 12:31 PM

Exactly what Yimaxi said. I'm hoping I'm not crying with joy for no reason (I'm not really crying, but I sure as heck am excited).

That place has usually been correct in my experience. If this is just a bad joke then curse them to the firey pits of hell! I hope firey demon dogs screw them and eat their balls!

Billiam

08-17-2005, 12:40 PM

man, i hope they are fucking around.

Galactic

08-17-2005, 12:44 PM

MeanGreen

08-17-2005, 12:50 PM

why arent people excited for a new street fighter game. im pretty pumped up myself(if it is true).I mean capcom developing on atomiswave game will be sick

9TNine

08-17-2005, 12:54 PM

why arent people excited for a new street fighter game. im pretty pumped up myself(if it is true).I mean capcom developing on atomiswave game will be sick

Sick like throwing up your intestines sick, not sick like good.

-9

ParryPerson.

08-17-2005, 01:13 PM

SF4 on Atomiswave = Laughible.

cygnus

08-17-2005, 01:32 PM

People aren't excited because it's just a rumor, and an extremely bogus sounding one at that. We'll see at the AM show.

We will also see ESPGaluda II. :tup:

SiLLiEMutAfuKA

08-17-2005, 01:45 PM

Hopefully it's true and they'll do a good job on it, hope it isn't a joke.

majin ryu

08-17-2005, 02:06 PM

- UNCONFIRMED: Japanese arcade retailers posted a list of arcade titles that will be exhibited at the upcoming JAMMA arcade show in Japan in September, the list is said to be around 80% accurate.

Banpresto
# Chou DragonBall Z (System 246, Spike)
# Mobile Suit Gundam 0079 Card Builder (Naomi 2)

Capcom
# Street Fighter 4 (AtomisWave)
# Donkey Kong: Jungle Fever (TriForce)

Man i hope its 4 real.

edit: oh yeah the link http://www.the-magicbox.com/gaming.htm

MannyKal

08-17-2005, 02:07 PM

source please!!!

edit: nm, thanx

Shodokan123

08-17-2005, 02:08 PM

from what i know, magicbox has been reliable in the past.

Ryu_311Funk

08-17-2005, 02:10 PM

Well Magicbox isnt really a good source, it's basically a compilation of news sources :D So take it with a grain of salt. Although they were the first place where I found out about tekken 5.1. Here's hoping for the best!

cygnus

08-17-2005, 02:13 PM

That list has been around for a couple days. Seems far fetched, but I guess we'll see.

SiLLiEMutAfuKA

08-17-2005, 02:16 PM

I was about to post this...but saw it already posted in the SF4 thead, oh well.

Really hoping it to be true, can't wait to see it.

ChaosNightWolf

08-17-2005, 02:17 PM

April fools?

ParryAll

08-17-2005, 02:17 PM

- UNCONFIRMED: Japanese arcade retailers posted a list of arcade titles that will be exhibited at the upcoming JAMMA arcade show in Japan in September, the list is said to be around 80% accurate.

80% accurate?? Ummm, ok.

Capcom

Street Fighter 4 (AtomisWave)
Donkey Kong: Jungle Fever (TriForce)

Hmm so Capcom is making Donkey Kong: Jungle Fever for the Arcade now?

Sorry guys but I have a feeling that this SF4 "announcement" is part of the 20% of unacurate information in this article.

MeanGreen

08-17-2005, 02:18 PM

you guys are lame! all these threads complaining about why no new capcom fighter now one might be coming out and you all still talk shit.

danomyte

08-17-2005, 02:25 PM

i thought AW was dead after KOF11?

Hcparker

08-17-2005, 02:26 PM

while I hope it isn't true largely because the atomiswave hardware is crap, I wouldn't be surprised.

angryliberal

08-17-2005, 02:29 PM

yeah, i thought atomiswave was being ditched...why would capcom put it on atomiswave anyways, its not even as good as the naomi2 board from what i understand, i may be wrong...

RXS

08-17-2005, 02:33 PM

from what i see on the list.. fist of the northstar is ALSO.. on atomiswave.. regardless of under powered hardware.. whatever gets the job done right?!... i mean.. it's probably a big far fetched for SF4.. but if it comes... hopefully it'll host new sprites and what not.. and catches on to the North Star art style.. cuz that game looks REALLY good.. at the moment.. we can just keep hoping.

RXS

cygnus

08-17-2005, 02:37 PM

its not even as good as the naomi2 board from what i understand, i may be wrong...
It's not as good as Naomi, let alone Naomi 2.

The Beholder

08-17-2005, 02:45 PM

Yup magic box is always reliable and you can damn depend on it (3 years exp after jumpin from site to site for resources and info's)

^_^ i belive that

JamMasterJom

08-17-2005, 02:48 PM

i believe sf4 will be out

i believed t5.1 would be out

but they tend to get details wrong...

t5.1 was supposed to be 3v3 cvs2 style

..

gouki10

08-17-2005, 02:48 PM

isn't atomiswave the hardware used for GGX2, if so then it will kick ass

OrangeCat

08-17-2005, 02:59 PM

I'll believe it when I see it.

OC

Return of Shiki

08-17-2005, 03:09 PM

isn't atomiswave the hardware used for GGX2, if so then it will kick ass

I think all the GG from GGX up were Naomi, except for Isuka, which was Atomiswave (and looked and played like crap compared to GGXX).

Ryu Kazama

08-17-2005, 03:11 PM

I hope it's SFIV, but maybe it's some spin off of SF....again.

I guess time will tell.

FusionITR

08-17-2005, 03:14 PM

SF4 should be on CPS3.

Has anyone played anything on the Atomiswave? It's ass.

angryliberal

08-17-2005, 03:21 PM

didn't they opt to put mb:ac on naomi2 cuz aw was so bad? yeah, i don't imagine capcom is putting sf4 on aw, maybe cps3...

SaBrE

08-17-2005, 03:23 PM

only guilty gear isuka was on atomiswave. ggxx #r and even slash, are on naomi still. atmoiswave is a weaker version of the naomi. there was no point in the hardware at all. a lot of atmoiswave games suffered with a lot of slowdown, prime example is dolphin blue. fun game, but 90% slowdown...

act cadenza is naomi 1 also

cygnus

08-17-2005, 03:24 PM

There isn't really anything wrong with AW, other than the fact that it's not needed at all. It's almost identical to Naomi other than being less powerful.

Kinda like CFJ! ka-pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

e: f, b

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Naomi 2 is only used for a few games. The VF4 series is pretty much the only well-known game on Naomi 2. Naomi/Naomi GD-ROM however is super widespread and popular. I've heard it's the most common (non-pachinko) hardware in Japanese arcades.

Check out how many games are on Naomi compard to Naomi 2 (or any other arcade hardware):
Naomi (http://www.system16.com/sega/hrdw_naomi.html)
Naomi GD-ROM (http://www.system16.com/sega/hrdw_naomi_gdrom.html)
Naomi 2 (http://www.system16.com/sega/hrdw_naomi2.html)

angryliberal

08-17-2005, 03:28 PM

act cadenza is naomi 1 also

also, as in its on both, or to correct me? if its on 1, why? is there a reason to put it on 1 instead of 2? i'm kinda new to the whole arcade motherboard thing and i've wondered reasons for releasing games on certain boards over others...

Daemos

08-17-2005, 04:01 PM

MeanGreen, when the game is CONFIRMED, I will run naked down the street but until then I'm happy in my cynical hole right here.

If they make SF4, I just hope Capcom thinks twice about what they put out and listen to the fans who've waited a pretty damn long time for this game. Don't fuck it up for us, our life and SF depends on it. :(

ragnafrak

08-17-2005, 04:30 PM

naomi 2 isn't really needed if the game isn't 3d
no reason to up production costs if they don't need to..

i dunno about sf4 being on atomiswave though, maybe it will at least guarantee that it's 2d

Orochi Jeebus

08-17-2005, 04:35 PM

sf4 on naomi

dc port plz

The_Reno

08-17-2005, 04:37 PM

Why in the world would they port it to DC?

cygnus

08-17-2005, 04:41 PM

Cause DC is like, cool, man

Stanman

08-17-2005, 04:46 PM

hmmm, street fighter 4 to finally come out...

After so many years I have a feeling it's just not going to live up to expectations but I sure hope it is badass. I wonder if it is going to be a big jump in change as sf2 was to sf3. I guess the alphas were between it though...

So Im guessing it is using a GG Isuka system it is going to be 2d?

Rico!

08-17-2005, 04:53 PM

After so many years I have a feeling it's just not going to live up to expectations but I sure hope it is badass.

If they do make it, you'll have to wait until one of the revisions comes out because capcom never gets anything right the first time.

08-17-2005, 05:02 PM

Port to DC so people can burn it and then complain that no new games are coming out.

Anyway, CPSIII is too expensive and can't do 3d effects like transparency, etc. Naomi isn't quite as powerful (more than able to duplicate SF3, however) as far as 2D, I'm guessing, but is basically better at everything else, and much more convenient to use. And is maybe even comparable in 2D, I don't have any CPS3 hardware stats around.

Burning Ranger

08-17-2005, 05:04 PM

t5.1 was supposed to be 3v3 cvs2 style

..

You mean like KOF--unless it has a ratio system, then it would be like CvS2. Thought you should be corrected.

Anyway, CPSIII is too expensive and can't do 3d effects like transparency, etc. Naomi isn't quite as powerful (more than able to duplicate SF3, however) as far as 2D, I'm guessing, but is basically better at everything else, and much more convenient to use. And is maybe even comparable in 2D, I don't have any CPS3 hardware stats around.

Well, Naomi 1/2 did have CvS1, CvS2, SFA3 Upper and GGXX(including #Reload, I think)--I think the system is more than capable of handling a decent 2D fighter. Even Atomiswave can do it.

Speaking of Atomiswave, the hardware platform itself isn't dead. The AW-Net network service (which KOF Neowave supported) is dead after NGBC (source:http://www.insertcredit.com/archives/000377.html). At least this way, new games on Atomiswave hardware still seems plausible. (I don't know if this fact was mentioned before or not).

VEGA_OMEGA

08-17-2005, 05:17 PM

That would be great if it were on the atomiswave..i've been wanting to get one...

Shadowhaxor

08-17-2005, 05:34 PM

I don't know, I mean, who long did it take for them to count to 3? I call BS on this, til I get some solid info, no disrespect to the magicbox either.

But if its truth, then I will be so freaking happy, you feel me?

Crusader

08-17-2005, 06:00 PM

Man I really, really hope it's true.

Time_Stop

08-17-2005, 06:08 PM

Everybody running this news are using the editor from The Stinger Report as a source. That´s a copy and paste of a post of his.

The thing is, he himself says only 80% of the stuff he announces are confirmed.

And MORE: the Atomiswave is DEAD. The list of the last AW few games (last one being KOFXI in November) does NOT include SF4.

SF4 would be great news, but i don´t think it´s real, and even if it were, it certainly wouldn´t be on the AW.

Etcetera

08-17-2005, 06:46 PM

It isn't going to happen. At least not yet.

Superking

08-17-2005, 06:57 PM

Magicbox, sigh, anyway the news ripped straight off from The Stinger, a really reliable gaming news site similar to the Mmcafe. Magicbox got that 80% from the fact that at last year's Jamma, Stinger was right about 80% of what was to be shown and announced at that year's Jamma.

Currently it is all unconfirmed, but The Stinger still has that shit on lock.

m121akuma

08-17-2005, 07:17 PM

Man, if it does come out, SRK is gonna crash AGAIN ;_;

JamMasterJom

08-17-2005, 07:24 PM

You mean like KOF--unless it has a ratio system, then it would be like CvS2. Thought you should be corrected.

no. cvs2 explained exactly what i meant. in cvs2 you dont get to tag out, you wait until one character is dead then your next character is up to fight. thats all i needed to explain when it came to "3v3" and it did just that. it doesnt matter if kof wouldve explained it as well.

TheLegendKilla

08-17-2005, 07:28 PM

Street Fighter 4 WILL come out. The rumours are true and I know this game is going to kick ass. Capcom bring out the game everybody been waiting over 7 years for. Street Fighter 4 will make it's grand debut and everybody will stop in their place. The KING of fighting lives on.

-#1 Street Fighter maniac

Higher-Jin

08-17-2005, 07:29 PM

swey

(that means "cool" you squares)

polarity

08-17-2005, 07:41 PM

at last year's Jamma, Stinger was right about 80% of what was to be shown and announced at that year's Jamma.

If the list was anything like this year's, that's hardly surprising given than most of the stuff on there (the complete list, not the one in this thread) has already been officially announced.

tharimrattler

08-17-2005, 07:43 PM

Hope this is true.

Rhio2k

08-17-2005, 07:51 PM

swey

(that means "cool" you squares)

If you're trying to use slang from Batman Beyond, it's "Shway".

Higher-Jin

08-17-2005, 08:09 PM

If you're trying to use slang from Batman Beyond, it's "Shway".

or "schwey" unless there is some official spelling, but swey is catchier. I knew I wasn't the only one!

_MJ_#R

08-17-2005, 08:42 PM

hearsay .. nothing to get excited about....

Skyler

08-17-2005, 08:47 PM

hmmmmm....sounds more like SF3.4, but still hoping for the best

fjf314

08-17-2005, 08:53 PM

I think I'm filing this one under "cautious optimism." I would love to see this game released, but a completely new SF4 would almost seem too good to be true. Here to hoping, though. :tup:

Higher-Jin

08-17-2005, 09:11 PM

hearsay .. nothing to get excited about....

However your avatar is. PMage please, any stray links you have laying around.

Akuma4Real

08-17-2005, 09:13 PM

hearsay .. nothing to get excited about....
Your av is something to get excited about. I know you know, but I had to say it!

podunk320x

08-17-2005, 10:10 PM

i usually dont post here unless its big news, and it cant get any bigger than SF4. I didnt bother reading all the post, so im not sure if this has been posted or not but according to the MagicBox www.the-magicbox.com they are saying:

UNCONFIRMED: Japanese arcade retailers posted a list of arcade titles that will be exhibited at the upcoming JAMMA arcade show in Japan in September, the list is said to be around 80% accurate.

Capcom:
Street Fighter 4 (AtomisWave)
Donkey Kong: Jungle Fever (TriForce)

Does this mean maybe SF4 is a no-show or just rumor since the list is only 80%? also is it really(and finally) going to run on a AtomisWave(GG quality)? i hope so, cuz this made my day and september is looking like a great month

:pray:

Edi. E

08-17-2005, 10:17 PM

Yes we know. It's old and probably fake. BFD.

1/2Man1/2God

08-17-2005, 10:21 PM

.....overload!!!!

bill_rizer

08-17-2005, 11:13 PM

your all nuts lol, good lord this news has spread like wild flower its on every forum i visit.

The best you can hope for is a Kof neowave style game using either ST or alpha sprites in other words rehash the atomiswave speciality.

can someone tell me what capcom games are on the atomiswave? apart from some minor shootem ups.
Didnt capcom fall out with sammy? hence no sammy vs capcom.

Nope the more i think of this, the more bs it becomes untill i see pictures or capcom say something.

bill_rizer

08-17-2005, 11:22 PM

2 SF4 threads ??why?? ones gota go

TrueSephiroth

08-17-2005, 11:35 PM

I to would love to see Street Fighter 4...but how many rumors over the last years have we read and "hoped" yet NOTHING ever shows up? Too many too count, I hope, but I'll remain doubtful so that if it turns out to be nothing, then I won't want feel too bad. However, here's hoping, *takes a shot of drink for the game to hope*

DanielLarusso

08-17-2005, 11:36 PM

Are Watson and TFGM playable? Will there be any other stages besides the parking lot?

Saotome Kaneda

08-17-2005, 11:41 PM

Are Watson and TFGM playable? Will there be any other stages besides the parking lot?
I heard BYOC was unlockable

mastermind

08-17-2005, 11:42 PM

C.FP HAS to be an unlockable character. PLEASE

IvanDashSmith

08-18-2005, 12:55 AM

C.FP HAS to be an unlockable character. PLEASE

Sorry to sound stupid but what is C.FP and TFGM and BYOC?

Anyone clarifying would be great. thanks.

phae

08-18-2005, 01:04 AM

Sorry to sound stupid but what is C.FP and TFGM and BYOC?

Anyone clarifying would be great. thanks.

.. whoo.

sfdevotion

08-18-2005, 01:06 AM

Another game to add to my collection. *drooooooooooooool*

Someone toss me a bib . . .

Overworld

08-18-2005, 07:27 AM

I'd actually like parries to stay, just because I enjoyed them but if they go they go.

I'm just hoping for an entirely revamped destory the car bonus stage. You know you want it.

Saotome Kaneda

08-18-2005, 12:08 PM

I'd actually like parries to stay, just because I enjoyed them but if they go they go.

I'm just hoping for an entirely revamped destory the car bonus stage. You know you want it.
Destroy the Ricer, this time?:confused:

sfdevotion

08-18-2005, 12:13 PM

I actually wished that I could skip the bonus stages, if given a choice. Sometimes they're cool, but in the heat of battles I'd like to just fight. If they bring back the car bonus stage, I hope its optional like how in 3rd Strike they gave you options of who to fight, they should have an option of which bonus stage you want to do.

cygnus

08-18-2005, 02:38 PM

Saw this on MMcafe.

Dear SNK-Capcom.com,

Some of your forums members just emailed The Stinger Report website asking where the SF4 information came from. Rather than writing four seperate emails - thought it would be better to come straight to the horses mouth!

TSR recieved rumors that 'Sammy Vs. Capcom' (A-Wave) had been cancelled for a bigger project, which was later revealed as a start on SF4 development. The hardware platform was said to be A-Wave on the back of CVS dev, but the last mail we recieved said it might now be a System 258.

Can I just confirm the Stinger AM Show preview feature is not just confirming games to be shown at the event, but also games that will be confirmed or previewed. TSR has doubts about Sega Rally 3 for example but have a source that stands by his information - and as he revealed SNKP dropping the A-Wave we have to stand by him.

Just for the record Capcom's AM division is still alive and kicking if a lot smaller. They worked jointly on the Banpresto Gundam shooter and have a strong Crane and Token division.

Hope this helps,

Editor

Note that CFJ runs on System 258, along with the Gundam arcade games and the previously canceled Capcom Fighting All Stars.

Daemos

08-18-2005, 03:55 PM

@sfdevotion

I just think the bonus stages should be made more difficult. Maybe the car could be moving and you have to total it.

quiche

08-18-2005, 04:00 PM

I hope we get to pummel a pt cruiser or a mini cooper.

I hate those fuckin' things.

...seriously.

Gaijinblaze

08-18-2005, 04:25 PM

Note that CFJ runs on System 258, along with the Gundam arcade games and the previously canceled Capcom Fighting All Stars.
Isn't System 258 made by Namco? As far as I know, there has never been a Capcom game or any 2D fighter on it. System16.com seems to have a separate 246 listed (made by Capcom, peculiarly), with CFJ, All Stars, and those Gundam games you mentioned. My guess is that SF4 would be on that, if it were to be made.

cygnus

08-18-2005, 05:46 PM

Oops, yeah you're right. 246 would make more sense, but maybe they want to take advantage of the new technology somehow.

Or maybe the whole thing is bogus, of course.

RagingStorm101

08-18-2005, 06:19 PM

So Capcom would still put SF4 at arcades? At first I thought they were going to just put it on PS2/Xbox but then I realized it wouldn't be at any arcades. Also it's Capcom Of America making this right?

Overworld

08-18-2005, 06:30 PM

Or make the bonus stage like Mach Breakers (anyone who hasn't played the game, and don't mind mindless fun, take a gander) do something like having a semi-truck flying down the road at your stationary character. (You could see it approaching on a small window.) You'd get a big warning sign before it came on screen and you timed your punch, the more perfect you hit it, the more damage would ripple down the semi, or any big vehicle. (Bullet Train?)

Yeah, I give too much thought to odd stuff like that.

Hcparker

08-18-2005, 07:02 PM

Link to Namco's System 258 page: http://www.system16.com/namco/hrdw_system258.html

If true this could be an indication that SF is going 3D. The other problem I see is that it's based off the PS2 boards which makes me even less enthused to play it.

Rioting Soul

08-18-2005, 07:27 PM

ParryAll

08-18-2005, 08:39 PM

I have little knowledge of system specs so what's wrong with PS2 boards?

Well for one its a PS2 board. CFJ was PS2 board.

If it turns out to be 3d, this would be a huge dissapointment. SF4 with weak PS2 style 3d graphics when we are like months away from a new generation of consoles/arcade hardware? That would truely suck.

Then again System 258 would still be a better choice than AtomisWave. Lets just pray it's 2d and high res/high animation ala GGXX. That can be done on just about anything Naomi and up.

Daemos

08-18-2005, 08:47 PM

If SF4 was a traditional 3D game ala Tekken or Soul Calibre, it would be a massive disappointment. SF simply cannot compete with them as a 3D fighting game, but as a 2D fighting game it shines the most and CAN compete with them as a fighting game alone.

FusionITR

08-18-2005, 08:48 PM

I dont understand why they cant just use CPS3 again. It was the perfect piece of hardware, why not just stick with it?

I can do without the 3D backgrounds.

polarity

08-18-2005, 08:51 PM

Why the hell do you people think the hardware it's on with somehow determine the quality or graphics of the game? Naomi runs mostly 3D games as well, but most Capcom fighters on there were 2D. And as for saying "Well CFJ was on it, so therefore this will suck," that's no different from judging a console based on one bad game.

That thing DandyJ posted gives me a little more confidence for this being real, though.

If this does come out, as it will inevitably be released by CoJ, I'm going to laugh at all those "COA OWNS SF NOW YOU DUMBASS!" idiots for buying totally into a rumor based on an iffy translation.

edit: Wait, it says that they cancelled SvC to work on "a bigger project." But it was Sammy who were working on SvC, not Capcom.

So basically 3 options:

1. This is bullshit.
2. SvC was going to be a joint project between Arc and Capcom rather than adhering to the versus game tradition of only one of the parties involved being the developer, and the SF4 rumors are actually true.
3. Capcom pulled out because they didn't want such big releases as SvC and SF4 coming out at around the same time, so they decided just to work on SF4. Hence, obviously, the SF4 rumors are true.

Random thoughts: Could it be that members of Arc are also involved in the SF4 dev process? If 2 was true, they could've just palmed over development to Arc entirely, but perhaps they wanted Arc to help them with SF4. However, of the two scenarios where SF4 exists, 3 seems more likely to me.

If the rumors are true, it would explain why Capcom were willing to let SvC drop without a word to their fans; they knew there was something bigger in the pipeline. Devs also tend to be very secretive about their early-in-development projects, which would also explain why we hadn't heard anything about the death of SvC; they didn't want to release negative news without the positive news to go with it.

If 3 is true, could we potentially see SvC at an even later date?

For the record, I still say it's bullshit. But hey, speculating is fun.

ParryAll

08-18-2005, 10:08 PM

Just out of curiosity, how well have the Guilty Gear X games done from a financial standpoint for Sammy/Arc? I mean total sales among the various home ports, arcade distribution, etc in US and Japan.

The reason I ask this ... suppose the numbers are pretty decent for Guilty Gear. It has made good money for Sammy. You'd think Capcom could look at those numbers, and base a decent chunk of development cost off it, in order to bring us a decent Street Fighter 4.

By default a brand new SF would probably outsell/perform GG in US and Japan anyway.

Lets just hope there is still a strong enough support base in place for SF4 to become a reality.

IvanDashSmith

08-19-2005, 12:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by IvanDashSmith
Sorry to sound stupid but what is C.FP and TFGM and BYOC?

Anyone clarifying would be great. thanks.

.. whoo.

whats with the "whoo"? I see a bunch of letters I have never seen before. C.FP, TFGM, and BYOC. What are these? How do they relate to a possible SF4?

ParryAll

08-19-2005, 12:12 AM

whats with the "whoo"? I see a bunch of letters I have never seen before. C.FP, TFGM, and BYOC. What are these? How do they relate to a possible SF4?

Crouching Fierce punch...TFGM is a group of players from Canada(?) not fucking sure...and BYOC is Bring your own controller

Superking

08-19-2005, 12:15 AM

Crouching Fierce punch...TFGM is a group of players from Canada(?) not fucking sure...and BYOC is Bring your own controller

TFGM stands for Tri-force Game Master, he's the leader of Empire Arcadia, I don't know where you get this group of players from Canada from. lol

Especially with all the Empire drama and the whole Watson-TFGM feud recently.

ParryAll

08-19-2005, 12:26 AM

TFGM stands for Tri-force Game Master, he's the leader of Empire Arcadia, I don't know where you get this group of players from Canada from. lol

Especially with all the Empire drama and the whole Watson-TFGM feud recently.

Lol, whoops. I'm thinking of TOSF (I think).

polarity

08-19-2005, 12:29 AM

Crouching Fierce punch...TFGM is a group of players from Canada(?) not fucking sure...and BYOC is Bring your own controller

or bring your own console

squiz

08-19-2005, 01:21 AM

or bring your own computer :T

Saotome Kaneda

08-19-2005, 07:42 AM

BYOC in this context is Bring Your Own Console, based on Evo 2k4's BYOC room, not the "BYOC Area" that's been in single hall tournies.

Ultima

08-19-2005, 08:58 AM

RagingStorm101

08-19-2005, 09:54 AM

Cell shaded seems nice but what about destructible environments? That seems like a plus, ripping off of SC2. And I remember a lot of 3D games let you go into other stages by breaking them. Dialogue would be nice. I think that would be truly innovative...to have dialogue between characters in a fighting game. And not like "Ikuzo" at the beginning of the round. I mean like after the battle, they could talk or something could happen instead of just the next stage. Maybe they should show how they get to the next stage.

Rioting Soul

08-19-2005, 10:51 AM

Just get Clover Studios to work on the aesthetics. Release it in US and Japan in arcades within a week of each other and advertise the arcade release(commercials). Don't port to console for a year(don't reveal plans to port until a month before). During the year before the console port, take in info about game balance and distrubute upgrades. Hold tournaments. When the year is up, port the latest arcade version to console and advertise it.

Problems solved?

ParryAll

08-19-2005, 08:52 PM

ParryAll:

I couold be wrong, but I believe tht overall, GGX* series didn't do so well on console. That's the problem: 2D fighting games are too niche. Their cost/profit ratio is either very low or usually in the negatives.

Yeah, I'm sure tht Capcom could make SF4 a 2D game to end all 2D games. And it would sell more the GGX* series. The problem is, that's not saying much. I'd be very surprised if the worldwide sales for GGX* sold close to 100,000 copies, across ALL systems. Capcom *might* make something that sells, say, 150,000 to 300,000 copies, which would attributable more to name recognition than anything else (assuming the game doesn't look like it was made 10 years ago). The problem is that to make a good (or at least good looking) 2D fighter now without any sprite recyling requires tremendous amounts of work. As Capcom themselves once said, they could make two 3D games in the time that it takes to make one 2D. Why would Capcom want to spend enormous amounts of time and effort on a game that might sell "okay" at best?

Now if the game had 3D graphics, they would at least have the chance to sell more since most players nowadays (well, always actually) are attracted to what's new and shiney. But we all know that SF can't compete in 3D with the other main 3D fighters like DoA or Tekken. Or rather, SF shouldn't compete with them. They should take it in another direction, and super cell shaded is their best bet. BUt for that, they're going to need some powerful hardware. All of this is especially relevent since there's a new console generation coming. If Capcom releases something that looks like it should have been made in 2002, then their efforts will be for naught, no matter how good it plays.

Well, how much do you think GGXX costs to make? I don't doubt it takes more "time", but taking longer to make doesn't neccesarily mean it costs more to make than a 3d game. It could just mean it takes more time to draw the character animation, build the gameplay system, and iron the bugs out, etc.

So lets say GG sold in the range of 200,000 copies, worldwide. Then factor in Arcade distribution, and the development costs. Let's assume that this business platform proved profitable for Sammy. Capcom could look at all this and give SF4 a budget similar to GG's. They build the game on a cheap but competent arcade board, like say Naomi, and expect a similar profit to what GG has made. Actually, by default one would expect a brand new Street Fighter to outsell/out distribute Guilty Gear anyway, so the whole thing would look good for Capcom in a financial sense.

Now as for the whole notion of a 3d Street Fighter, I don't doubt that the look and feel of 2d SF could someday make the transition to 3d flawlessly. Anything is possible. But if that is what Capcom intends to do, they need to go all out, on newer, next generation hardware, and really take it serious with a high budget. If they intend on giving us a low budget, cell-shaded 3d Street Fighter on aging Naomi, PS2 based, or god forbid, fucking Atomis Wave hardware, they can just go fuck themselves. But if they decide to give us something with a decent, GGish budget, nice, high res 2d graphics, and trademark SF gameplay than everyone will be happy.

-edit- 150,000-200,000 copies total for Guilty Gear seems low. I think if you take into account, the Dreamcast and PS2 Guilty Gear X, PS2 Guilty Gear XX, PS2 and Xbox Guilty Gear XX#R, PS2 Guilty Gear XX#R Slash, and hell, Guilty Gear Isuka, WORLDWIDE sales, the numbers have to be higher.

IvanDashSmith

08-20-2005, 12:47 AM

ParryAll:

...Now if the game had 3D graphics, they would at least have the chance to sell more since most players nowadays (well, always actually) are attracted to what's new and shiney. But we all know that SF can't compete in 3D with the other main 3D fighters like DoA or Tekken. Or rather, SF shouldn't compete with them. They should take it in another direction, and super cell shaded is their best bet. BUt for that, they're going to need some powerful hardware. All of this is especially relevent since there's a new console generation coming. If Capcom releases something that looks like it should have been made in 2002, then their efforts will be for naught, no matter how good it plays.

I agree they should take it in another direction, but cel-shading is merely icing on the cake. The 3d and 2d games play completely different ( for almost no reason other than "hey guys this is in 3d so we have to make it play different than 2d."), and with the proper camera and timing a 3d game can play just like a 2d game, add in the "filler" that makes 3d games so cool and you have a possibly great SF game. Then you dont have to worry about things like 320x240 resolution only, or recycled sprites, let the engine do that work for ya.

Just get Clover Studios to work on the aesthetics. Release it in US and Japan in arcades within a week of each other and advertise the arcade release(commercials). Don't port to console for a year(don't reveal plans to port until a month before). During the year before the console port, take in info about game balance and distrubute upgrades. Hold tournaments. When the year is up, port the latest arcade version to console and advertise it.

Problems solved?

That sounds like a great way to reenergize the SF market. Nice idealized business model.

Well, how much do you think GGXX costs to make? I don't doubt it takes more "time", but taking longer to make doesn't neccesarily mean it costs more to make than a 3d game. It could just mean it takes more time to draw the character animation, build the gameplay system, and iron the bugs out, etc.

When you really think about industry costs more time IS more money. If an artist who is paid on average $45K-$50K a year takes twice as long on a game your budget increases tremendously, not to mention lead artists and coders who on a project like this have six figure salaries. The hardware and software used to create both 2d and 3d is generally the same, give or take $5k per copy of 3d software application.

Hcparker

08-20-2005, 03:05 AM

That sounds like a great way to reenergize the SF market. Nice idealized business model.

From the Japanese POV yes it does. It doesn't work in the US because we don't have nearly the arcades they do. Can't really reenergize a scene that's been made outdated by the growth of the Internet and online gaming.

Capcom needs to tackle two seperate issues here:

1. What should SF4 be about? ie Parrys, guard meter, etc...
and
2. How should people be playing it.

Capcom needs to figure out a way to answer both questions equally well for both the Japanese and US markets for SF4 to be a huge success again.

Rioting Soul

08-20-2005, 10:41 AM

From the Japanese POV yes it does. It doesn't work in the US because we don't have nearly the arcades they do. Can't really reenergize a scene that's been made outdated by the growth of the Internet and online gaming.

Capcom needs to tackle two seperate issues here:

1. What should SF4 be about? ie Parrys, guard meter, etc...
and
2. How should people be playing it.

Capcom needs to figure out a way to answer both questions equally well for both the Japanese and US markets for SF4 to be a huge success again.

I would think that if Capcom went my route then everyone in the US would be clamoring for the arcade version. SF4 is something to get excited about. If they just advertise it, then people will come to the arcades. And if there are no arcades then people will beg. When others see how well this "arcade thing" is doing because of SF4 then some entrepenuers(sp?) will jump ship. I think SF4 is that game to revitalize the arcades in the US.

polarity

08-20-2005, 12:15 PM

I would think that if Capcom went my route then everyone in the US would be clamoring for the arcade version. SF4 is something to get excited about. If they just advertise it, then people will come to the arcades. And if there are no arcades then people will beg. When others see how well this "arcade thing" is doing because of SF4 then some entrepenuers(sp?) will jump ship. I think SF4 is that game to revitalize the arcades in the US.

Revitalizing the US arcade market would require research into why it died in the first place and why people are no longer interested. It certainly wasn't because of lack of advertising.

Sonic_Reaper

08-20-2005, 12:22 PM

Rhio2k

08-20-2005, 12:29 PM

or bring your own computer :T

Yeah, I've been to a few rom-gatherings. The best part is the aquisition of new/rare roms afterwards.

inkblot

08-20-2005, 01:01 PM

Overworld

08-20-2005, 02:20 PM

Yeah I'm not sure what Rioting Soul is smoking...

Heck, the only machines that tend to do a lot of business among casual gamers are DDR machines anyway. I can't even go to a arcade near me, they don't exist, and I don't think any guy is going to open up a new one for one game.

I haven't been to an arcade in years, the one nearest me died out from complaints that it was too noisy. (The only reason it could stay afloat was because it had mutliple DDR machines, there was a CvS2 and a 3S but both barely got played.)

Rioting Soul

08-20-2005, 02:29 PM

Lol, I was being optimistic on SRK. Sorry you guys.

EDIT: Well, what if they made the arcade networked to other arcades with no regional lockout? And make it so that people at home on the console version can play someone at an arcade anywhere on Earth through online play?

I'm ODing on hope.

IvanDashSmith

08-20-2005, 02:36 PM

Arcades are futile (inside the US). You know what's going to happen if (and only if) SF4 is an awesome game? People will come to the arcades to play only that. A few years later, people will lose interest, Capcom will have definitely stopped making Street Fighter games, and arcades will die again.

Same shit happened with SF2. Only difference was that SF3 was received so poorly, it almost killed the US arcade scene on the spot. MvC2 and CvS2 came and pumped some life into it, but the scene has and always will be on the recline, being quite near dead at the moment. So a SF4 (if received well and plays well) will rejuvenate the scene, but only for awhile and not forever.

You make a lot of good points, but the thing to really keep in mind is that everything dies eventually. The movie industry almost went out of business when TV came along, and now that home consoles are as powerful, or more, than arcades there is virtually no reason to have to leave the house to enjoy it.

Only a while and not forever is a bit of a vague statement and obvious one all wrapped up into one. I don't think anyone expects any game to create a gaming scene that lasts forever.

But I for one commend ritoing soul's optimism. its attitudes like his that actually take a step back and see possibilities rather than shooting down potential. granted you want some level of research and safety, but SF4 would probably be the one american game to be able to survive those kind of risks rioting soul mentions.

Overworld

08-20-2005, 03:23 PM

You make a lot of good points, but the thing to really keep in mind is that everything dies eventually. The movie industry almost went out of business when TV came along, and now that home consoles are as powerful, or more, than arcades there is virtually no reason to have to leave the house to enjoy it.

Only a while and not forever is a bit of a vague statement and obvious one all wrapped up into one. I don't think anyone expects any game to create a gaming scene that lasts forever.

But I for one commend ritoing soul's optimism. its attitudes like his that actually take a step back and see possibilities rather than shooting down potential. granted you want some level of research and safety, but SF4 would probably be the one american game to be able to survive those kind of risks rioting soul mentions.

I dunno, you have the hardcore crowd here, and even their thoughts of SF4 are mixed.

I like optimism, sure, and in fact I tend to be a dreamer as well, but the arcade market really died not because of an interest that passed, (because video games still make a lot of money) but because of the ease of bringing the experience home.

Movies see the same thing happen, but going to a movie theater is more different an experience than playing a videogame in a arcade and at home. There are differences, but really, most of my best times playing videogames where in my house with my friends.

So I think arcades would need more than one killer game, because we've seen what one killer arcade game can do, mostly Time Crisis and DDR, which just can't keep arcades afloat by themselves. (Half because of the extra costs these particular games carry with them, but still.)

So could it sustain it's own scene? Well among diehards and people willing to drive hours to get to arcades, yes, but generally, I don't really think so.

Blazn

08-20-2005, 03:39 PM

Capcom can so too fight with the 3d games and make it even better just like they did with rival skools probably the best 3d fighting game out there.

but what they need is a new idea to make a new sf..

sf2 was original sf alpha had alpha bars n stuff
sf3 has parry
what can sf4 have?

Daemos

08-20-2005, 03:49 PM

@Blazn

Individual character-unique gauges!!!

If there was ever a game that could reinvent the arcade scene, it would be an SF game but only if it hits a nerve with US fans.

CrotchMonkey

08-20-2005, 04:49 PM

didnt t5 help out some arcades before it went to console?

DAWOLF57

08-20-2005, 06:51 PM

SF4 should have a story mode that IMO should be like this:
basically a movie with anime or in game graphics if they go 3d
and so the movie plays on until two characters have to fight at which point you will play the charater that is supposed to win the fight.
This way you wont get multiple contradicting endings.

shinblanka

08-21-2005, 09:51 AM

Those are some nice accurate sounding things. I bet that those were educated guesses on what the game will be or look like. And I bet some sf2 characters are going to be in sf4 when super sf4 turbo comes out. I hope guile is there.

They would prolly put guile's daughter in the game. Maybe bison comes back and kill's guile and guile daughter goes to seek revenge like her dad sought it for charlie's death. Also Oro and akuma should be in sf4. An adult sakura would be nice also. The problem is most of the community would want some of the older charaters introduced into SF4. IMO only having RYU from the older games is a plus, but it may not do well just like SF3 didn't do well at first in the usa as a whole. I love learning new characters, but alot of people hate change. All I care about is the gameplay. That should be the main concern for everyone. Graphic's are secondary IMO. :karate: The sad thing is whenever SF4 comes out it will prolly be CONSOLE ONLY! The only way we will play it in the arcade in the USA will be if they make a japanese arcade version. We already see the signs of of companies going away from making arcade versions of fighting games. Namco is making Soul Calibur 3 for console only from all of the early reports. If Namco (who are the major arcade distribitor in the USA) are making a game that is console only game I can't see SF4 making it to the USA shores. IMO in 2-3 years most of the arcades in the USA will be closed. It's already like that in the ATL South and fighting game's aren't enough to save the arcade's scene in the majority of the USA. You will still have some pocket's of arcade scene's in the usa, but IMO the arcade scene will be completely dead in 5 years.

shinblanka

08-21-2005, 10:10 AM

didnt t5 help out some arcades before it went to console?

Yes it did, but in 3 month's it was on console. I wonder how that felt to an arcade owner that paid $10,000 for the T5 kit and watch all of his gamers go and buy T5 for $49.99 and stop going to the arcade. That's what happend in Atlanta, Ga and we have a great Namco player's(Tekken and Soul Calibur) arcade scene, but when the game come's out on console it dies out the day after the console version is released. :lame: :sad:

Sdouble

08-21-2005, 10:14 AM

if sf4 isnt' 2d it won't be shit and everyone will still play 3s, bottom line!!

Wellman

08-21-2005, 12:18 PM

It isn't about being 2d, it is about playing like 2d. If this SF game is truely the sequel to the series and it was 3d but played like a 2d game, there should be no problem.

In order to be worth anything the game will have to either be brand new cutting edge animation or 3D. Since this is Capcom, rather than investing in cutting edge animation they are more likely to take the simple 3d approach that might draw in the coveated western audience.

Sonic_Reaper

08-21-2005, 04:18 PM

IvanDashSmith

08-21-2005, 05:01 PM

There is a problem with 3D playing like 2D. KoF MI showed us that. And I'm not talking about technical problems, but generally, when you have 2D, things are much more fantastical, or at least aloud in so-far as how the artists' draw the character frames. In 3D frames, unless you have an advanced engine, you won't be able to effectively pull off stuff like Sim's and Necro's stretchy limbs. In a 3D engine, it just looks weird. I know that's a sad excuse, but for some reason, when I see 3D, my brain suddenly switches to "realistic physics" mode. When weird stuff starts to happen, I laugh, then stop playing (KoF MI). Just do a jump attack in KoF MI, that shit looks ghey. It looks the same in 2D games, yeah, but there artists are using tricks of the trade to make us mentally create inbetween frames (for when someone does an air attack and magically lands in one frame for example). In 3D games, you can't "skip frames", cause the limbs move in real time. I think if a company wanted a 3D fighter to play like a 2D one, they have a HUGE hurdle to overcome as far as style and presentation is concerned, especially if they want a more fantastical style (or perhaps exaggerated is a better word). And they better have a damn solid engine that alows for the crazy shit that's only portrayed in 2D graphics.

It would be damn near impossible to recreate Twelve in current 3d technology without slowing the engine to a halt. The closest anyone could come is that character from EX3 that had "spikes" pop out of his body, which were really just vertices on his 3d mesh being pulled to an extreme.

The problem with a lot of this is in order to have a 3d character move you have to manipulate the skeleton, and in order to have complicated hands, feet, and facial animation you need lots of bones and that becomes trying on any current engine. But with the right engine bones can be scaled to create characters like Dhalsim, so that is a possibility.

In 3d you CAN skip frames, animations don't have to interpolate between each other, but most 3d engine developers never turn that off because they havent thought of an instance when anyone would want to see it. Perhaps if it was done just REALLY fast it wouldnt be so significant.

cygnus

08-21-2005, 05:39 PM

You can overlay 3D graphics on top of 2D hitboxes, just like you can overlay 2D graphics on top of 2D hitboxes. Done correctly, 3D graphics would pose no problem.

Rioting Soul

08-21-2005, 06:02 PM

SNIP

Clover Studios(Viewtiful Joe, Okami).

In Tekken 5, frames are skipped.

Sonic_Reaper

08-21-2005, 06:37 PM

Yeah, it can be done, but what are some examples of 3D fighting games that emulate the look and feel of 2D games? None, at the moment. I think Tekken is a bad example, because there's not very much exaggeration there.

I remember seeing some videos about how the new technology in PS3 and Xbox 360 were being incorporated into new boxing titles that allowed opponents' face and skin to move and mould on impact. If we take Hugo from SFIII for example, and wanted to make a 3D version of him replicating his movements from SFIII, we'd need to use this technology (on his face especially).

The current state of arcade hardware, however, would explode. Even PS3 and Xbox 360 apparently are barely able to deliver said effects. To get a cartoon feel with exaggerated movements, as portrayed in any of Capcom's fighters, you'd need a hugely advanced engine.

The technology is not there yet. So we're stuck with crap like MI and the EX games. Mind you, referring to style and presentation here, not the technical aspects, since those can always be reproduced and have been in employment since the SNES days.

Rioting Soul

08-21-2005, 07:01 PM

To get a cartoon feel with exaggerated movements, as portrayed in any of Capcom's fighters, you'd need a hugely advanced engine.

Clover Studios is accustomed to doing this. It seems to be their specialty, doing things in 3D and making them look and feel 2D. I think they can make a person with stretchy limbs.

EDIT:I reread your post. No there is no example of a fighter that's done that but I think it can be done.

ParryAll

08-21-2005, 07:16 PM

^^ Made some really good points about SFIII's art direction not being possible in 3d. I never really thought of it like that, but you are right.

It's such a shame that 2d graphics have to go away because they aren't "Modern" anymore. It really shouldn't be this way. Could you imagine if hand drawn anime was compelety replaced by CG? That would suck ass. Shit it's already happened in America. You never see any hand drawn stuff from Disney anymore, it's all CG.

polarity

08-21-2005, 07:30 PM

Yeah, it can be done, but what are some examples of 3D fighting games that emulate the look and feel of 2D games? None, at the moment.

Rumble Fish.

Time_Stop

08-21-2005, 08:59 PM

Rumble Fish.

TRF is still a 2D game. What you see in-game are still hand-drawn, 2D frames. It just so happens they have 3D grids hidden behind them. There are no actual polygons in the characters.

polarity

08-21-2005, 09:09 PM

TRF is still a 2D game. What you see in-game are still hand-drawn, 2D frames. It just so happens they have 3D grids hidden behind them. There are no actual polygons in the characters.

Ah, so does the movement of the polygons govern the movement of the sprites or something? That would explain why the animation looks so different. Even so, while they may not be visible, if that kinda still makes the game functionally 3D.

vpt_whatup

08-22-2005, 12:28 AM

Superking

08-22-2005, 12:52 AM

Interestingly enough, the site (url: the-magicbox (http://the-magicbox.com/game20050816.shtml) - scroll to bottom) lists Street Fighter 4 under an Atomiswave hardware. Isn't that the same as 'The Rumble Fish'?

^ The Magicbox jacked the SF4 news from The Stinger Report, right now the rumour mill says Namco's System 258 (what Tekken 5 ran on) which is just 30% faster/stronger than System 246/PS2. This sorta makes sense, since Capcom has been using Namco hardware lately for AEUG vs Titans, Alliance vs ZAFT, and of course Capcom Fighting Jam. And it was mentioned that KOFXI was the last game to be on AW.

Rage02fire

08-22-2005, 04:43 AM

Hol Horse

08-22-2005, 05:26 AM

Why doesn't no one want SF4 to be cell shaded it works perfect for me and IMO I think it's the best way to have it cartoonish style. Could someone just explain why Cell shaded for SF4 seems like a No No to everyone?

To some people cell shading is still another thing and not comparable (and I can agree with them), but the main reason imho is:
because polygons affect gameplay. Even if you try to recreate a 2d fighting system with polygons, one main issues remains. Collision detection. In sprite-based games it has a pixel-precision; in polygonal games it depends on the models, so while in 2D you always get what you see (if character A is 35 pixels away from char B cMK will hit, if they're 36 pixels away it won't), while with polygons it doesn't work that way as it depends from the perspective, from the camera angle and maybe other stuff too. With sprites, an on-screen 35 pixel distamce is ALWAYS the same to the game engine (unless zooming is applied, but even the few 2d games with zooming have a fixed zoom-in when the characters are close enough to where it matters). With polygons, it's NEVER the same distance. So high level spacing/footsies gets quite fucked up. If you notice, 3D fighters rely MUCH more on the frame advantage stuff and dodging than on tight distance control, spacing and footsies, because it's just not possible to have perfect control over distances in a polygonal environment until olographic displays come up.
Hitting with the tip of a move is a viable (and in some instances, vital) tactics in 2D games. In a 3d environment, it's not reliable at all.

i.e. SFEX tries to resemble SF2 gameplay, but while it can be fun, it fails to deliver SF2 gameplay mainly because of this.

I would be all in for a new cell-shaded fighter from Capcom with a gameplay that's in-between 2d and 3d in game mechanics.
Just DON'T call it SF4 because it won't be able to reproduce one of the main things that make SF what it is (and that has been vital to hi-level gameplay during the whole series).

Daemos

08-22-2005, 05:35 AM

The thing I noticed that 3D games fail to replicate is that 2D games play faster and tighter. Things are more action packed and fast paced, maybe I'm not playing the right game but in 2D games it feels like a fight.

Spider-Dan

08-22-2005, 06:29 AM

To some people cell shading is still another thing and not comparable (and I can agree with them), but the main reason imho is:
because polygons affect gameplay. Even if you try to recreate a 2d fighting system with polygons, one main issues remains. Collision detection. In sprite-based games it has a pixel-precision; in polygonal games it depends on the models, so while in 2D you always get what you see (if character A is 35 pixels away from char B cMK will hit, if they're 36 pixels away it won't), while with polygons it doesn't work that way as it depends from the perspective, from the camera angle and maybe other stuff too.
You're absolutely, positively wrong.

Sprite-based games use the same hitbox collision detection system as polygon-based games. If you want to talk about consistent precision hitboxes, I will put SFEX+@ against SFA3 and SFEX+@ will win by miles (SFA3's hitboxes are notoriously inconsistent). Hitboxes are all about programming, and there is absolutely no reason at all that you can't make a 3D fighter play exactly like a 2D fighter.

The most obvious proof would be MVC2. MVC2 has a 3D engine at it's heart; I defy you to watch the ice stage and dispute that. So what would prevent Capcom from replacing the 2D sprites with 3D polygonal characters that have zero freedom of movement in the Z-axis (exactly as they do now)? Nothing at all.

Camera angles are a non-issue, as it's a simple matter to make the camera always face perpendicular to the characters' fighting line, and it's equally simple to prevent the characters from ever being able to face sideways (off-axis).

With sprites, an on-screen 35 pixel distamce is ALWAYS the same to the game engine (unless zooming is applied, but even the few 2d games with zooming have a fixed zoom-in when the characters are close enough to where it matters). With polygons, it's NEVER the same distance.
WTF?

A pixel is a pixel is a pixel. 35 pixels in a 3D game is still 35 pixels. If not, what is it?

So high level spacing/footsies gets quite fucked up. If you notice, 3D fighters rely MUCH more on the frame advantage stuff and dodging than on tight distance control, spacing and footsies, because it's just not possible to have perfect control over distances in a polygonal environment until olographic displays come up.
Hitting with the tip of a move is a viable (and in some instances, vital) tactics in 2D games. In a 3d environment, it's not reliable at all.

i.e. SFEX tries to resemble SF2 gameplay, but while it can be fun, it fails to deliver SF2 gameplay mainly because of this.
SFEX is the perfect example as to why everything you just said is wrong. Footsies work in SFEX, and they are at least as consistent as in SFA3. While SFEX plays differently than most other SFs, it's not because it's 3D. In gameplay, SFEX+@ is less dissimilar compared to SF2 series than SFA series, Darkstalkers series, or Marvel series.

Spider-Dan

08-22-2005, 06:37 AM

For those of you who haven't seen Bleach, here's a few links to some screenshots of it (and its sequel!):

http://www.the-magicbox.com/0412/game041209a.shtml
http://www.gamekult.com/tout/jeux/fiches/J000071777_screenshots.html?maj=1&typeMedia=150022

http://www.gamekult.com/tout/jeux/fiches/J000075236_screenshots.html?maj=1&typeMedia=150022

Daemos

08-22-2005, 06:45 AM

Actually Spider Dan makes a good point about SFEX+@, of all the EXes it plays exactly like an SF game. The gameplay is really good, better than some 2D SF games in some cases.

Daemos

08-22-2005, 07:07 AM

What you're about to read is a fictional Street Fighter 4, one person's view on how it should be. The reason I wrote this article is to share my vision of the next installment in the SF series with all of you. I hope you all enjoy my creativity when it comes to the story and characters, personally I thoroughly enjoyed writing this so I hope you too can thoroughly enjoy reading this. ^__^

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Story
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Without a form of continuity, there really isn't a point in calling the next SF game, Street Fighter 4 or even associating it with Street Fighter. This is why I've decided that the best and most presentable version of SF4 is one that acknowledges the past and the future, a SF that moves the story forward instead of taking it no where (SF3 anyone?).

In 'this' SF4, there is a balance of old and new cast. However the old cast is not re-introduced without logical and plausible reasoning. Every character is in someway interconnected with another. There are several sub plots going on, everyone has their own agenda and everyone story will be resolved in one form or another.

The general plot of SF4 is that it takes place in 2006, several years after SF3. It's been years since Urien took over the Illuminati and started his plans for a 'posthuman' world. What started out as a cult religion now has temples all over the world, Urien's influence is growing, so him hosting the SF tournament comes as no surprise.

The story of SF4 is divided among several characters, all which are discussed in detail below. I've come up with 'resolutions' (IE endings) for every story I've introduced (but I'm not going to post these just yet). What SF4 does is settle old questions and introduce new ones, it sets the stage for new villains and new heroes.

These aren't all the characters. I think there is more room for 3-5 new characters and 1 or 2 oldies. I still didn't make up my mind about those though.

Character: Ryu
Appearance: Generally looks the same except a bit more aged. He has a slight stubble (dirty face beard), his hair is longer, slightly shorter than Ken's in SF3. We can also see some gray hair near his temples.
Stage: Japan - Ryu's stage is the yard of master Gouken's dojo; surrounded by a lush forest with leaves falling from the trees.
Story: Having trained under Oro since the last tournament, Ryu now feels that if he is able to win the SF tournament once more he will be ready to battle Akuma.
Notes:
- Although we have waited for this, Ryu will NOT get his fight with Akuma (although he will try to but it will be too late). His story will take a drastic turn.
- Ryu knows Goku but because it's been many years, fails to remember her. He however encounters her one day near Gouken's dojo and strikes a friendship with her, not realizing he knows her from before.
- Ryu can fire his hadoukens using one hand; he can also fire them diagonally. He can do this now thanks to Oro's disciplining.
- In fact, Ryu should have new specials or modified capabilities thanks to Oro's training. We need to make him as different from the other shotos as possible. Got ideas?

Character: Ken
Appearance: Looks exactly the same except his hair is longer (not as long as Alpha) and tied back.
Stage: Seattle, USA - Ken's stage is his personal dojo where he trains his students. His stage is an inside environment with some of Ken's students cheering the fight; Sean, Eliza and Ken's son Mel are visible in the background.
Story: Ken's very own dojo received a personal invitation to join the tournament. At first he was hesitant, thinking he should send one of his students to represent his dojo instead,. However once word got out that Ryu is joining the tournament, Ken rushed at the chance to fight him again and show off a modified version of his original martial arts that he developed himself.
Notes:
- I didn't consider what possible modifications Ken has developed but I imagine it follows in the footsteps of ShinRyuKen, IE flaming fists. It's best to make Ryu and Ken as different from each other as possible to avoid grouping them.

Character: Chun Li
Appearance: A modified version of her costume. The shoulder puffs are gone so you see a little bit more shoulder skin. The costume itself looks more modern now than traditional but still the same. Her hair is the same (I'm starting to think its a wig).
Stage: China - A traffic jam (surely caused by the fight), a very crowded street you see a lot of people walking and a lot of people on bicycles moving around. Very chaotic.
Story: Caught up in the tragic murder of her long time friend Guile, Chun Li finds clues that lead her to the SF tournament and eventually to the killer himself... Or herself?
Notes:
- When Chun Li was at the scene of Guile's murder she found a flyer, sort of like an advertisement for the SF tournament. She concluded that the killer left her this as a clue of where to find her.
- Chun Li notices that the Guile's body has several cuts, but the cuts come in 3 as if they were done with a claw... She assumes it's a ninja of some sort until she receives word that Vega escaped his prison.

Character: Vega (Balrog)
Appearance: Vega is topless (still tattooed), wearing very dark green army pants with 2 black boots. His hair is much longer and is braided like it usually is. His face is covered with a mask although when the mask falls off, it isn't so beautiful anymore. Vega's claw is also modified, looks more like a Predator wrist blade.
Stage: Spain - A caged arena in Spain. Everything is caged, even the ceiling and the crowd is cheering with spotlights overhead. Very underground fight club-ish.
Story: After years of being confined in an insane asylum, Vega finally escaped (with some help from an old friend). Vega seeks revenge against the woman who put him there, the same woman who scarred his beautiful face forever.
Notes:
- Vega isn't well. Everything from the loss of his beauty to years of confinement has taken a toll on him and he's a little koo-koo really (Oddball from Thrill Kill anyone?).
- Vega's elegant fighting style isn't the same, he's much more violent and ruthless - Lots of stabbing and he doesn't yodel anymore, he just laughs like an insane man or shrieks.
-Vega was 'rescued' from his prison by Bison whom he immediately recognized (the uniform and smile is a dead giveaway). Vega asked Bison on the spot "How will I find her?" and Bison replied "I've taken care of that, she'll find you!" (GET MY DRIFT!!! =D)

Character: Akuma
Appearance: Akuma has aged, his hair is COMPLETELY white (with a few red streaks if you like). The top part of his GI is dangling from his waist, so he's topless. His chest has a few scars here and there and on his back the "ten" symbol is practically carved into his back (I wonder how he did that).
Stage: Japan - A dark forest (thinking Living Forest from MK2) on his island lair, it's a very moody misty stage. You can see some objects hanging from trees that imply that Akuma hung them there for training purposes.
Story: Still searching for the ultimate opponent worthy of a fight, Akuma is mysteriously invited by the host of the tournament to join, the host promises Akuma the ultimate fight if he joins.
Notes:
- Akuma WILL meet his match in this tournament and he will lose, but not without leaving us with a parting gift.

Character: Bison (Vega)
Appearance: Imagine Rose, with her long hair tied back either left dangling or neatly made into a single bun. Imagine her wearing Bison's outfit, with the shoulder plates, leg pads and wrist armor, with the same cap. She has glowing white eyes and her voice is something out of the exorcist. I'm not sure about the high heels though.
Stage: Antarctica - Bison's stage is an underground base in Antarctica; Some Scientists are visible in the background but so are large test tubes with semi-naked fighters such as Juni, Juli and Balrog inside - That explains their disappearance.
Story: After several years of hell (literally) Bison's demonic soul escaped the trenches of heck and found refuge in the body of an incapacitated Rose (who's been in stasis for many years in an abandoned Shadaloo base). Now many years later, a stronger, rejuvenated Bison with everything to gain and nothing lose, seeks to take back what's his.
Notes:
- Ok let me just get this straight to avoid the inevitable. How did Bison come back? This version of SF4 assumes that after Alpha3, Bison and Rose's soul merged in Rose's body. When Shadaloo built Bison a new body, he exorcized himself from Rose's body again (just the bad side NOT Rose) and went into the new body. When Akuma ‘SGSed’ Bison, his soul went to hell for several years, till about 98 or 99, that's when Bison’s DEMONIC-IMMORTAL-ULTRA HUMAN soul managed to escape hell, it found refuge in Rose's body which was kept in stasis in an abandoned *unknown* underground base. There was no one there when Bison came about and he started from scratch. Many years later (2006), Bison made his existence known.
- Bison wants a new body desperately, a better one and the only organization capable of supplying him one is Uriens. Make sense?
- I wouldn't be surprised if Bison also wants to take control of the Illuminati but that isn't his main priority right now.
- I also wouldn't put it passed Bison to try to learn some of the Illuminati’s secret teachings to survive the raging demon like Gill.
- I haven't considered the possibility that Bison knows Urien and Gill from before or if even he was part of the Illuminati decades if not centuries before.
- Is Rose still alive in Bison? Fighting for control of his body? Possible.
- Bison is just as strong as SF2 if not a little bit stronger. Why? Bison had more time to recover from SF2 to SF4 (almost 10 years from the moment he escaped hell) than the time he had to recover from SFA3 and SF2 (3 years)

Character: Urien
Appearance: Generally looks the same, except that he wears an elongated pharoahesque helmet on his head and he isn't wearing a thong anymore (no he isn't naked!), He's wearing this piece of armor "skirt", I don't know what it's called but it's like what Shao Kahn from MK wears around his waist.
Stage: Atlantic Ocean - On board Urien's floating pyramid fortress (ala Stargate) which levitates over the sea next to a major city. The stage itself is comprised of a very Church-ish background, with lots of gold and priests worshipping in the background. Orchestral music is a MUST.
Story: Having binded Gill's powers, Urien took this chance to destroy his brother and take control of the Illuminati. Urien started his own self-worshipping religion and seeded the world with temples in his honor. Now Urien hosts an SF tournament in hopes of assimilating the perfect qualities from the best fighters to create the perfect human that will replace the existing "mistake".
Notes:
- Urien didn't just kill Gill (reminds me of Kill Bill) for power, he killed him because he thought he was a fool to even consider any humans are worth saving. Urien wants to cleanse the world of humanity himself and replace them with something he deems worthy, something that worships him.
- Why start a religion and seed the planet with temples if you're gonna kill everyone anyway? Through fear, Urien will use his influence to turn humanity against itself, make them kill each other and get it over with. Who needs armies when you have RELIGION!!!
- Urien wants to study the fighters in the tournament on a biological level mostly, he wants to see what makes them so powerful. The best of the best will then have the good parts of them extracted and used for Urien's "Posthuman" experiments.
- Urien has this incredible floating fortress that looks like a giant silver pyramid, it acts as a base of operations for him and it moves from city to city overseeing the tournament as it happens.
- As the boss, I don't think Urien should be playable immediately.

Character: Goku
Appearance: Goku wears a torn (like Akuma or Ryu) dark green Gi. She has long dark black hair tied into a pony tail.
Stage: Japan - Much like Ryu's stage, Goku's stage is the yard of master Gouken's dojo; except it is at night and it's a stormy rainy night with rain and thunder.
Story: Trained by the same man (Gouken) that trained Ryu and Ken, the mysterious Goku believes that she is finally ready to exact her revenge and with the help of Urien, she will.
Notes:
- Goku is the Alex of SF4, as in she IS the main character of SF4.
- Goku is NOT a young woman, she's about the same age as Chun Li, a few years younger than Ryu. She's a hard-headed cold character much like Ryu, very driven and determined.
- Goku's fighting style is something of her own PLUS bits and pieces of Ryu/Akuma.
- Goku's wants revenge against Akuma for killing Gouken, she has trained all her life for it and there is no boundaries to what she would do to kill him. Her vengeance has almost taken over her life. However she is having a hard time tracking him, so she approaches Urien and tells him if he brings her Akuma to the tournament, he can have Akuma's body for his 'Posthuman' experiments, too bad Urien has plans of his own.
- Goku meets Ryu one day at her father's dojo but doesn't tell him who she is, she however knows who he is and grows fond of him. She does not reveal to him her intentions.
- Goku tries to keep a low profile at all times, hence when she starts a match she has a straw hat (Like Raiden from MK) on.

Character: Amy
Appearance: Amy wears an outfit similar to Guile, IE tank top + army pants + boots. Her hair is short and dyed light pink.
Stage: USA - An airfield with jet fighters landing and taking off in the background.
Story: Guile's daughter and in the army herself, Amy joins the tournament to help Chun Li find the one responsible for the murder of her father.
Notes:
- Amy is to SF4 what Remy was to SF3, the Guile replacement. NOT!!! She does utilize similar powers to Guile however. Although she's more offensive than defensive.
- Some of her moves include a horizontal version of the Flash kick that hits twice and a backwards dash that launches a short-lived sonic hurricane in its wake. She also has the traditional flash kick.
- Amy considers Chun Li like family because she has been in her life for a long time and she is a close friend of Guile.
- Amy always felt that she let her father down because Guile always wanted a boy, hence why she joined the army, followed in his footsteps and now wants to avenge his death.

Character: Scorpio
Appearance: Topless with a Scorpion tattoo running down his shoulders to his upper abs. He's wearing a mask that covers his entire head and colorful tight wrestling pants (Like most Hispanic/Latin wrestlers).
Stage: Puerto Rico - An outdoor wrestling ring on a sunny day with a crowd cheering, holding posters that change according to the name of the fighters. (If Ryu is fighting one of the posters would read "Ryu" or "Ryu rules")
Story: A famed Puerto Rican wrestler notorious for dramatic acrobatics and powerful maneuvers that send opponents hurling in agony. Scorpio joins the tournament in hopes of being recognized worldwide instead of just Latin America.
Notes:
- Scorpio isn't Zangief II, he's more of a combination of Vega, Zangief, R. Mika and Blanka. He's a very acrobatic grappler, most of his moves do consist of throws though.
- Scorpio isn't a very big guy for a wrestler, I imagine him to be 5'7 or 5'8.

Character: Nefr
Appearance: Princess Leia slave costume! I imagine her with lush rich brown hair, she's wearing a veil to cover her mouth and nose but you can see her beautiful eyes. Another possible outfit for her is one similar to Pullums from SF EX series
Stage: Iran - A colorful palace chamber with lots of pillows and fabrics, you can see bowls of fruit and a fountain as well, several beautiful women in the background (belly dancers too!)
Story: A Persian princess renowned for her beauty. Her face is so beautiful that NO MAN can resist her once they've seen it. Nefr joins the tournament to demonstrate that even a god like Urien will fall to his knees for her beauty.
Notes:
- Nefr means beautiful and it's pronounced Ne-Fur.
- Vega greatly admires Nefr's beauty and tells her at one point that she reminds him of himself. (Although that won't stop him from skinning her like a rabbit)

Character: Celestine
Appearance: As tall as Urien, a tad bit leaner and is completely bald. His skin is dark but he is not black. He wears a golden piece of armor that covers virtually his entire upper torso and also gold wrist armor (Like Bison's). He has a gold bracelet on each leg that extends from his ankles to a few inches below the knees. He wears the legendary thong (death to pants everywhere!!!)
Stage: Morocco - The ruins of one of the Illuminati temples, the time of day is dawn (symbolizing a new beginning I bet)
Story: The last of the 3 Illuminati overseers (The Emperor, The Oracle and The Sage), Celestine the Sage witnessed first-hand Urien massacring his own brethren, his own brother for power. Celestine seeks to bring order back to his secret society and put an end to Urien's disgraceful reign.
Notes:
- We find out in SF4 that the Illuminati was run mostly by Gill (The Emperor) but alongside him was the Oracle and the Sage. They form a trinity of some sort, one dictating what gets done (The Emperor), one predicting what will be done (The Oracle) and one suggesting what should be done (The Sage). Urien has already terminated the Emperor and Oracle, Celestine managed to survive the initial onslaught but once Urien learns that he survived, he will surely be killed.
- Celestine is old, very old (although it doesn't show too much). He along with the Oracle have witnessed many Emperors rule before them over the centuries but never has he witnessed a betrayal on the scale of Urien.

Character: Beta
Appearance: It's hard to figure out how to make something like Beta look like considering that he is a shape shifter. The best I could come up with is a taller Twelve with a straighter posture.
Stage: India - Outside the steps of one Urien's -very Greek in appearance- temples in a village in India. You see people making offerings and worshipping in the background. It's a sunny, colorful stage.
Story: Having delved deeper in gentech, Urien produces the latest version of the ‘shape shifting’ Twelve experiment. The experimental soldier aptly named 'Beta' is being put to the test in this tournament in hopes of proving itself worthy of mass-production.
Notes:
- Even though Beta is an evolution of Twelve, their fighting styles are not the same. They both are capable of metamorphosis but Beta' fighting style is much more organized and disciplined. He utilizes a variety of martial arts combined with his metamorphosis abilities. He's more "stiff" to say the least.
- One of Beta's supers is called "Osmosis", where he turns into hundreds if not thousands of tiny particles and passes through his opponent causing damage.

Character: Gordo
Appearance: Wearing a one piece exosuit with a jet pack on his back. He has blonde hair and wears weird hitech goggles. Same height as Ryu/Ken.
Stage: England - On a London bridge and you can clearly see Big Ben in the background. You can see some cars in the background with the drivers out either cheering or pissed off.
Story: A young Englishman who believes that true power is derived from superior technology. Gordo, armed with a jetpack, a wrist cannon and other enhancments joins the tournament to prove his point.
Notes:
- Gordo is a young handsome 'lad' who's bored with life, he's extremely wealthy, inheriting billions from his father (very Bruce Wayne-ish). Having studied martial arts for most of his life, Gordo felt that the human body can only go so far so he decided to use his wealth to enhance his fighting capabilities. An exosuit that increases his pain threshold, a high-powered jetpack for extra agility and a wrist cannon that doubles as a light plasma cannon and plasma saber.
- Gordo is an overly confident egomaniac, he has so much faith in his technology that he challenged the US martial arts champion Ken Masters.
- Although Gordo has technology on his side, he doesn't ignore his skills in fact he uses them in conjunction with his tech.
- One of Gordo's moves is a jet powered forward lunge attack. Another is an aerial attack where Gordo uses his jet pack to dive head first into his opponent, smashing them into the ground. As a mockery of Ken's fighting style, Gordo also has a dragon punch-ish move that utilizes both his wrist plasma saber and his jet back. Of course Gordo also has a high impact fast-moving projectile attack.

Character: Chandra
Appearance: African, About 6'3 wearing several off-white robes and holds a long wooden staff. Both his eyes are white because he's blind. His hair is about shoulder length and completely braided, tied in a bundle.
Stage: Nigeria - Afternoon, in the middle of an Elephant herd in a grassy region with a waterhole. The Elephants are doing their thing as if there is no fight taking place.
Story:An African Shaman who predicts that Urien's tournament will create an imbalance in nature, he sees a great shift in power and untold damage to humanity. Chandra's concern for his people and nature itself lead him to the conclusion that he must put an end to Urien's plans before its too late.
Notes:
- Chandra's fighting style is very quick and evasive; he's a mix of Rolento and Eagle since he utilizes his staff quite a bit.
- Even though Chandra is blind his reflexes are extremely fine tuned, it's almost as if he can predict when your next attack is.
- Chandra spends most of his time with animals, some claim he actually can speak to them.

Character: Onozuna
Appearance: By far the largest Street Fighter ever. Onozuna is as tall as Hugo and as fat as Honda. His attire is similar to sumo wrestlers; he leaves everything (IE fat) hanging out.
Stage: Japan - On a busy Tokyo street with skyscrapers on both sides of the road. You can see some of Onozuna's fans dressed like him and his manager cheering on the sidelines. There are TV reporters and cameras as well, the road is packed!
Story:The reigning champion of Sumo wrestling in Japan for the last 4 years, the massive Onozuna has remained undefeated since he first appeared. However Onozuna feels that he is much more than a fat sumo wrestling champion and he will prove this by defeating major non-sumo fighters from around the world.
Notes:
- Onozuna is not Honda II, he's closer to Hugo and Zangief really. His moves consist of several grappling throws, head butts and forceful pushes. He shares no moves with E. Honda whatsoever.
- Onozuna took the championship from (you guessed it) Honda who retired permanently after that.

----------
Game Play
----------

Much like how SF3 added new gameplay options and built on SF2, SF4 will do no less. However in SF4, I thought of taking things to the next level. Each character will have a specialized, individualized style with its own gameplay options and gauge, no two characters will have the exact same abilities.

We'll call this a 'mode' (ism and groove are taken). In single player Arcade, a player can only use O-mode. O-mode stands for Original Mode, as in your character gameplay style and abilities are unique, every character have their own unique O-mode that no other character has. What O-mode consists of is a variety of options that suit your character. For example, someone like Vega will have an O-mode that has several mobility options such as wall jump, double jump, run etc - Because that's how the character plays. Vega being a very quick-attack character might have a depletive gauge.

Someone like Ryu might have an all round balanced O-mode since that reflects the character himself.

When in Versus mode, things change a bit. When players select their characters they will have the option to pick one of two or three 'modes'. However the other modes are universal and not character-unique.

A perpetual concern is balance. While this 'modes' system certainly doesn't make balancing easier, I seriously doubt it will make it harder. When it comes to O-mode, it will be easier to balance a character's O-mode because it won't affect other characters, just as easy as nerfing a special move or super. The Universal Modes may pose a balance issue similar to the groove system seen in CvS2, it will definitely add versatility in 2P matches to say the least.

Possible Universal modes include A-Mode (Advanced Mode) which is hardest to master; it is the only mode in the game that allows parrying. V-Mode (Versatile Mode) which contains a bit of everything, for an all round fighting style. I will go into more detail on these later.

Below I have a list of possible gameplay options and gauges. The only options that are available to every character in the game are the universal ones, everything else is scattered about, no single character will have all these options.

Universal Options:

- Supers: Supers use up a portion or all of your gauge and do more damage than regular moves.
- Ex Moves: One of the best and most clever additions to a fighting game. EX moves are stronger versions of regular special moves, they use up a portion of your gauge.
- Power Up: Uses up a portion of your gauge to make your normal attacks do 10/15% more damage for a few seconds (3-5 seconds?).

Variable Options:

- F/B Dash: A quick dash forward or backwards.
- Wall Jump: Also known as a corner jump, when a character jumps onto a wall then jumps off the wall. (Vega and Chun Li had this before)
- Double Jump: Jumping again while you do a normal jump, allows you to go higher up.
- High Jump: Jump higher than normal but not as high as a double jump. You can't double jump when you high jump.
- Safe Fall: Allows you to recover quickly after you're thrown or knocked out in air, you land safely on your feet.
- Roll: Not like the CvS incarnation. A roll is kinda like a dash, you can roll forwards or backwards but you're not invincible. You can also do a roll before you hit the ground.
- Run: An extended dash that allows you to move quickly.
- Counter: Cancels any special move or normal move (even throws) you receive and pushes your opponent away from you. Causes minimal damage. Requires a portion of your gauge.
- Reversal: Cancels any special or normal move (even throws) you receive and allows you to perform an attack instead. Requires a portion of your gauge.
- Reciprocate: It's a new kind of throw but the intention isn't to cause damage but rather to just switch places. When it connects, you and your opponent switch places. Can be handy in corner traps.
- Dodge: Exactly like the CvS version (although less abuseable). Your character momentarily moves into the background, avoiding an attack.
- Custom Combo: Only available to characters who utilize a Depletive gauge. Basically the same as the Custom Combos we've grown accustom (no pun intended) to.
- Parry: Same as SF3 except it is exclusive to A-Mode.

Gauge types:

I've come up with 4 effective gauge styles (If you have ideas for more, please tell me). Each character's O-mode would utilize one of these gauges. For example, someone like Bison who relies on Psycho Power, the aggressor gauge is suited for him. The more angry and riled up his opponent becomes the stronger Bison's gets because of the negative energy so his gauge would increase in accordance to this.

You might notice that not all gauges can perform supers with the same strength and frequency. This needs to be fined tuned but there is always a good side to things. For example, a character with a depletive gauge can only perform 'strong' supers so to make up for the lack of a 'strongest' super, he or she can custom combo.

---Legend---

Weakest = 25%-30% damage super
Strong = 35-40% damage super
Strongest = 45%-50% damage super

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- Aggressor Gauge: Whenever your opponent attacks you, whether you block it or not, even if your opponent misses (although the increase is less in this case), your gauge increases. This gauge is divided into two, allowing for either two 'weakest' supers or one 'strongest' super.

- Regenerative Gauge: Automatically increases at a steady pace and is not affected by attacks received or given. Gauge divided into 3 which allows for 3 'weakest' supers or one 'strong' super which uses up 2/3 of the gauge.

- Chargeable Gauge: Increases with every attack done or received, much like the Alpha standard gauge. Divided into 3 which allows for 3 weakest supers, 1 strong super or 1 strongest super.

- Depletive Gauge: The quickest gauge to fill up but only increases with every attack you do that isn't blocked. Once the gauge is full, it will start to deplete giving the player a specific window of time to perform 1 'strong' super. Once depleted the player must attempt to fill it up again.

This gameplay system will allow several things that we've never really experienced. One, you'll be able to 'feel' the difference between each character. Every character will be more unique, the experience of picking and playing a character won't be the same again. In addition to this, it forces you to explore all characters just to see the one who has the play style that suits you like a glove. This gameplay system is also very versatile and allows for a variety of play.

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Graphics
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I've decided to briefly touch upon the subject of graphics. All though having heavily animated and hi-res 2D graphics is a dream come true, in all practicality it won't happen. Unless an angel drops down from the sky and commands Capcom to churn out money for a hi-res SF game, they probably won't do it. But enough with the painfully obvious, let's look to the future.

The best and most presentable way graphically for an SF4 is cel-shaded graphics. We've seen games like Dragon Ballz and Viewtiful Joe do incredible things with cel-shaded graphics. Someone is gonna raise his hand and argue, 3D graphics will destroy the 2D feel of SF game. It's possible that they will, although I for one enjoyed the gameplay of SFEX+@.

Here's the idea, manga looking cel-shaded 3D characters on a 2D plane, the backgrounds are similar to some of the 3D-ish backgrounds we've seen in games like CvS2. The special effects are rich in color and 3D. The characters appear as big as they do in the 2D games we've grown accustom to.

The camera is fixed like a 2D fighter, it can zoom in and out depending on the action and distance between fighters. The only time the camera angles become dynamic is during throws and super moves (Ever play that 3D X-Men fighter?). The dynamic camera angles that come into play during supers and throws give off a very Matrix-ish feel, it's definitely a nice touch to gameplay.

The stages are bigger; they could be multi-tiered not just smashing through floors and ceilings. But if for example you are fighting in an inside environment, you could be smashed through the wall and the fight is taken to the street. Destructible environments are not a must but definitely enhance the experience.

Having said all this, there is nothing better than 2D graphics. SF was made to be 2D and I'd love if we can get GGX style graphics. I don't think 3D can ever truly replicate the gameplay of a 2D fighter. SF EX was fun to play but it wasn't the same.

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This is just a first draft, so if you have any ideas and/or suggestions please share them with me. Credit will be given where credit is due. :)

polarity

08-22-2005, 07:22 AM

Most people who are saying 3D will ruin SF still can't understand the difference between inherent features of 3D engines and features which have appeared in most/all 3D games so far but are not inherent to 3D. It's pretty annoying actually.

Return of Shiki

08-22-2005, 08:21 AM

Even though I'm going to end up regretting it, I'll respond to Daemos' post.

Story Critiques:
-Look past your fanoby bias and see that Bison is SUPPOSED TO BE DEAD AFTER SF2. Akuma killed his SOUL. He was able to regenerate from being blown up with Charlie in Alpha 3 because it was only his body that was destroyed, not his soul. So, none of this "possessing Rose" crap. Bison is D-E-A-D. The best you can hope for is Rose gone bad.

-How exactly did Urien kill Gill. Storywise, Urien is one of the most powerful SFers ever, but he's nowhere close to Gill's level (that's the reason for his inferiority complex). Now, a plot where Urien and Dr. Kure's self-made Twelve army try to overthrow Gill's hold over the Illuminati would make much more sense. Just saying that Urien killed Gill "just cuz" is bullshit.
But, otherwise you seem to have the character of Urien downpat.

Rioting Soul

08-22-2005, 11:43 AM

I liked your post Daemos. The only thing I would have changed is name that character something other than "Goku". I don't think we are ready for anyone else having that name.

When I read posts I usually come to a part that makes me think "I wonder if he got negged". I then hover my cursor over that green box. As I started reading the post, I just knew that you'd either be in the red or be labled "scrub-tastic". You were hopeful and ambitious, and that just don't fly on SRK. Ppl here get irked.

Return of Shiki: Akuma did not kill Bison's soul. Bison's soul is immortal. All Akuma did was seal his soul in hell. With what we know of the SF canon it is plausible that someone could lift that seal[someone in the Illuminati].

Saotome Kaneda

08-22-2005, 12:22 PM

But since si