Learning Gouki..?

[TrueGouki]

I am trying to get better with Gouki, I have some questions about his bread & butter combos.

I always see tourney Gouki players do a CR MK and chain that somehow to a LK Tatsumaki, setting the opponent up for the HP Shoryuken.

I can only do this with a CR LK though, if I use the CR MK then try to do a LK Tatsumaki, often Gouki just does the CR MK and then stands there.

I also notice that when Gouki is RIGHT next to the opponent, doing a backwards dragon punch motion + LK or MK will make Gouki automatically chain a CR LK or MK (respectively) into an LK or MK Tatsumaki. Is this an intended feature?

Tourney players do some crazy shit, like doing the MK Tatsumaki and comboing into the HP Shoryuken, which appears to require Gouki to dash forward after completing the MK Tatsumaki and THEN do his HP Shoryuken. Such a maneuver seems to require amazing reflexes.

I have the dreamcast version of the game and am playing with the dreamcast stick, does that make a difference in timing this combo? Can anyone help a Gouki-padawan out?

[Zigmover21]

Uhm...sounds like you have some serious issues with basic execution, no offense.

[epsilon_]

Just work on your execution man, once you get that down, you'll be better.

[TrueGouki]

OK well my question is this:

Is the default "Direction" settings for the Dreamcast version of the game the same as the arcade version's settings?

I find for example that turning on some settings on pages 8-10 of the directions (done by unlocking the game) makes executing the combos much easier.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Default Direction settings for DC are what the arcade version uses, with one exception if I remember (setting parry timing to "1" or something like that...?.

-Josh

[TrueGouki]

OK I see Gouki players do a fierce punch then a short tatsumaki, then a fierce shoryuken.

Now when I try this in training mode, I do the fierce punch, but there is no way to make the short tatsumaki hit the opponent before he recovers and blocks it.

What's the correct motion to make the fierce punch cancel into the short tatsumaki?

I've also seen players do this same combo except starting it with a short shoryuken then canceling into the short tatsumaki. Whats the motion for that?

[vapulus]

Honestly, I think you just don't have the execution skills required for the combos in this game. Fierce, short tatsumaki, fierce shoryuken is one of the easiest combos in the game. There's nothing weird about it, or something you're doing wrong. You just can't do it. You're probably not fast enough with the inputs. There's no "short shoryuken", so I assume you mean "jab", and it's just as straight forward as everything else. Shoryuken, tatsumaki. In order. Quickly.

[TrueGouki]

I freely admit I'm very new to this game.

Nevertheless.

For a while I was trying to do a crouching MK then a MK-tatsumaki. I kept trying to simply do the two moves in order, rapidly, and it never worked.

Then I accidentally did a backwards dragon punch motion + the MK (i.e., back, down, downback + MK) and when this is done close to the opponent, Gouki hits with the crouching MK then instantly hits the opponent with the two-hit MK-tatsumaki with no further player input. This is then counted by the game as a 3-hit combo.

I can easily do a fierce, then a LK tatsumaki, then juggle the opponent into a HP shoryuken. But that counts as a 4-hit combo, not a 5-hit like in the videos.

Maybe I am absurdly wrong, but it seems that in the case of the crouching MK -> MK-tatsumaki, there WAS a special motion and not just doing the two moves really fast.

And you said just do the jab shoryuken and then do the LK tatsumaki? If you hit with the jab shoryuken the opponent goes flying into the air and you go all the way up to the peak of the "rising punch" animation then land. In the video the Gouki player did a jab shoryuken, then instantly after the hit, Gouki goes into an LK tatsumaki then did an HP shoryuken. It counted as 5 hits.

[exodus]

Originally posted by TrueGouki
In the video the Gouki player did a jab shoryuken, then instantly after the hit, Gouki goes into an LK tatsumaki then did an HP shoryuken. It counted as 5 hits.

what are you, high? -_- jab srk can't be cancelled into another non-super arts move...you probably saw a crouching fierce or something.

[TrueGouki]

When I get back to my dorm on Sunday I can send you the clip if you like, its from a long video of japanese players in a tourney.

Funny vapulus didnt make this point, he seemed to agree it was possible, but then I'M high? Not both of us? No need to be a jerk about it, the reason I'm even posting here is to try and learn.

[SlimX]

TrueGouki, it sounds as though you don't even understand the concept of buffering normals into specials (2-in-1s). You should probably read up on the basics of Street Fighter play and combos before trying to play a specific character in 3s the way you see in videos.

As far a jab shoryuken is concerned, you definitely can't combo anything at all after it's already hit. Super canceling would be the only option, but I think that's a bit advanced for you, at the moment.

[sHiNeRiK]

Canceling jab srk into super is only worth doing in the corner..

Then you connect another srk or another super. =\

[TrueGouki]

My assumption is that the purpose of this forum is for people to discuss strategy.

So when I ask questions here, I get spoken to with extreme condescension even though I'm trying to be polite and to learn. I heard from a friend that many people on SRK are assholes but I found it hard to believe strangers would just speak to you like you're an idiot when you are simply trying to ask questions and learn.

I know what buffering is. The concept is simple. You perform a move, and before the animation for that move is completed, you perform another move, such that your character performs both in rapid succession.

I can do this with supers. Easiest example is fireball into superfireball, which the motion for is essentially QCF + P, QCF + P very fast.

Having never played any SF game before, I didn't know you can also "buffer" with normals into specials. I suspected you could, and when I asked how, vapulus said I was just physically slow and needed to do both moves "really fast."

Is this what I get when I try to learn from the better players here?
:lame:

[sHiNeRiK]

Sorry dude but you can't expect ppl in here to be polite..

Exodus tends to talk alot of crap. He's a 3s fanboy. =\

[vapulus]

Very true, you can't cancel a jab shoryuken. For some reason I was thinking you could special cancel it, but it wouldn't actually connect the hurricane. I guess I've never tried. It's not something I'd ever even think to try. If you're going to cancel off of a shoryuken, might as well make it fierce. ;) sHiNeRiK is right - the only time you'll want to cancel a shoryuken is with a super, and even then that's sort of a hail mary, and usually not worth the meager damage you get from SA1. If you're using one of his other super arts (though I don't know why you would), it might be slightly more worth it. Or you could just be Daigo and play Ken and cancel his fierce shoryuken into super all the time. (it really doesn't seem to be worth blowing the super on this, but i could be weird)

TrueGouki, there are NO special motions for these. They really are as simple as they seem. You just can't do them, yet. A c.mk into lk tatsumaki is just down+mk, then roll from down to away and lk. It's all timing. It's also not "as fast as you can possibly do it". It's smoothly and quickly. Try just doing c.mk into lp fireball over and over and over again until you get your groove. ;)

[exodus]

that high comment was merely a joke. if i were being mean, i'd call you a stupid newb...which i didn't :p but really, i'm a very nice guy if you get to know me :)

[TrueGouki]

Thanks vapulus. Your explanation cleared it up. I can do the c. mk-tatsumaki-hp shoryuken combo easily now. The only thing I'm still struggling with is the fierce-tatsumaki set up for the 5-hit fierce-tatsumaki-shoryuken combo.

Do you first hit the fierce punch with the stick neutral, then rapidly do the qcb+lk? Cause if you do a similar motion to the c.mk to tatsumaki, Gouki does the crouching fierce then the tatsumaki.

[vapulus]

You're probably just trying to hit the motion for the tatsumaki too early. MAKE SURE you hit the fierce before you start the down to away roll for the tatsumaki.

[nanitaberu]

i like to use standing forward > tatsumaki instead of fierce > tatsumaki. when the standing close forward is blocked, i tab forward against for a safe poke and to gain a little more distance. i only use fierce when i land a divekick.

[Donkus]

True Gouki: It sounds like you're thinking too hard about what you're doing. Like asking a basketball player: "Do you breathe in or out when you shoot?" Just keep practicing over and over until you stop thinking about what you're doing to the controler and you start thinking what you're making your character do.

It doesn't matter where the joystick is so long as the close fierce comes out. Mostly neutral, but it doesn't matter. Then just do a hurricane kick like you normally would.

The difference in damage and stun between crouching fierce and close fierce is small; at your level you shouldn't worry about it. Don't substitute fierce for other moves like close strong or close forward because that's a bad exchange. Also work on low forward into hurricane.

You should not use a short hurricane if the opponent blocks. Learn to react to a block with a stronger hurricane or cancel into The Demon Flip. This confuses a lot of people.

Technically the best Shoryuken to super cancel off of is strong. You should cancel after the first hit to get the most damage. If you use fierce shoryuken and cancel after the second hit you will get less damage than if you canceled after the first. The first hit of strong is stronger than fierce, so use it.

[Sleipnir]

Questions?

What is his BNB Combo?
By playing around I found mp,fp
Then jump in:
fp,mp,fp
fp,fp
fp,fp,purple fireball
fp,fp,jabredfireball
fp,fp,lk.hurricane,lp.srk
fp,fp,rh.hurricane

which jump in is the best? And is middle punch -> fierce punch by itself his bread n butter combo?

What's his most damaging combo and most stunning combo?

[epsilon_]

c.mp/c.mk, lk hurricane, hp dp is his bnb. There's lots of other stuff, but that and c.lk x2 super are his main bnb's.

[Donkus]

B&B is close FP, lk Hurricane, FP DP. You can stick a heavy jump in before the close FP.

MP, FP is his target combo and it sucks.

Most damaging meterless nonstun combo is the B&B with a jumping fierce.

Most stunning nonmeter combo is j FP, close RK.

Gouki's bitchin' close RK does more stun damage than Urien's EX headbutt. Less damage than B&B but I still like it. Such a juicy little secret.

[BillyKane]

Originally posted by vapulus
Or you could just be Daigo and play Ken and cancel his fierce shoryuken into super all the time. (it really doesn't seem to be worth blowing the super on this, but i could be weird)

Sorry for going off-topic, but this is interesting and I don't think most people on srk know about it. I've had friends make the exact same comment about Daigo's reversal fierce DPs into SA3 but when you really think about it, it all makes sense.

Daigo cancels fierce DP into SA3 because he knows there are moves that, when properly spaced and timed, will only get hit by the first hit of fierce DP. This mainly happens with low moves and has to do with hitboxes and vulnerable boxes, but it's really easy to use to your advantage once you know about it. In this case, trading is CLEARLY not to Ken's advantage because not only does he get very little damage from that 1 hit, he's also sent flying up in the air and recovering from the fierce DP (as it it completely whiffed) while the opponent did not even get knocked down from that one hit and can punish him. Therefore, when Ken doesn't have a super stored you can try using those properly spaced low pokes to bait a reversal fierce DP and punish.

In this situation, Ken doesn't really want to get big damage, but he wants to force a knockdown to get some breathing room and/or initiate mind games. Using jab DP instead would seem to fix that issue (1-hit knockdown) but unlike fierce DP, it has very little priority even with reversal timing so it's a very poor wake-up move in most situations. Reversal wake-up SA3 is okay in terms of priority (you can still get thrown out of it easily though, unlike Ken's DPs) but you don't want to waste a whole meter on wake-up when you're not even sure it's going to hit.

Cancelling into SA3 is a good idea in this case because you will still catch those tricky low pokes with the super after connecting the first hit and still get the knockdown, putting the odds in Ken's favor if he gets the reversal. Now, not only does Ken obtain the knockdown, but they CANNOT quick stand because they just got hit by a super, and Ken is already in their face forcing them to guess right or get fucked up. If you're fast, you can hit confirm the first hit to avoid blowing your meter even when they block the DP (although you'll still get punished if you DON'T cancel, but it's still better than being punished AND wasting meter). Since you KNOW your super is connecting and you're getting the knockdown, it's okay to use it because you're going to get your meter back pretty quickly, and Ken doesn't need meter *that* badly anyway compared to other characters. Ken's reversal fierce DP into SA3 is an extremely good wake-up despite the relatively low damage it deals, because it has very high priority and will completely switch momentum in his favor if it hits.

Ken is cheap.

[TrueGouki]

Is Gouki's SA2 any good?

[Donkus]

GoShoryu?
Not really. It's the only one that does stun damage. If you taunt it becomes his second strongest normal Super, 1 point behind MG Senpuu.

There's a 100% combo against another Gouki and you have to use MGShoryu, but I forgot what it was.

[OmegaX]

Hey does anyone ever cancel akuma's reset jab into his shoryuken. I discoverd this while doing what i dubbed the akuma combo (c.mk, light tatsumaki, fierce DP) and i accidentally done a reset jab and canceled it into a DP. Now while this does do slighlty more damage there is a chance that you could miss the DP and that would just fuck everything up.

[exodus]

omega, that's an easy move not realized by many -- probably because of the non-guarantee in the SRK...

just buffer the towards motion into the jab and cancel into fierce SRK for a 6 hit combo. it has to be late though, because too early and the SRK will tend to whiff because the game will recognize the jab as a reset and then only register super arts to hit...

[epsilon_]

Originally posted by exodus
omega, that's an easy move not realized by many -- probably because of the non-guarantee in the SRK...

just buffer the towards motion into the jab and cancel into fierce SRK for a 6 hit combo. it has to be late though, because too early and the SRK will tend to whiff because the game will recognize the jab as a reset and then only register super arts to hit... Jab Resets are gay and useless, they only give the opponent an opprotunity parry the super. If this actually does more damage then I guess it'd be usefull, but as exodus said the SRK wouldn't be garunteed and the extra damage is pretty much useless anyway.

[exodus]

well that's the thing...it isn't a jab reset unless you don't cancel the shoryuken right. it's just a 6 hit combo, and pixels do add up (if you get it down 100%) -- mastery neglects missed opportunities :)

[TrueGouki]

GOddamn, some Dudley players were tearing me up the other day.

They do a couple of weird things. One guy got me in a corner and hit me with Dudley's Cr. HK... and hit me with again, and again, and again, till I died. Is this some sort of infinite?

Also the guy threw me a lot. He would use Dudley's stationary throw (just jab + short with the stick centered). Sometimes he would make Dudley hit me rapidly 5 times and end the throw, many times he made Dudley hit me like 2 or 3 times. Now thats just confusing. Why would you hit me 2 or 3 times when you know Dudley's stationary throw does 6 hits? WTF?

[epsilon_]

Originally posted by TrueGouki
GOddamn, some Dudley players were tearing me up the other day.

They do a couple of weird things. One guy got me in a corner and hit me with Dudley's Cr. HK... and hit me with again, and again, and again, till I died. Is this some sort of infinite?

Also the guy threw me a lot. He would use Dudley's stationary throw (just jab + short with the stick centered). Sometimes he would make Dudley hit me rapidly 5 times and end the throw, many times he made Dudley hit me like 2 or 3 times. Now thats just confusing. Why would you hit me 2 or 3 times when you know Dudley's stationary throw does 6 hits? WTF? Yeah Dudley can juggle some people in the corner with up to 6 c.rh's. and the other throw is better for positioning purposes, if they wanted to get you in the corner to DO the c.rh juggle.

[Mufasa]

Originally posted by Donkus

There's a 100% combo against another Gouki and you have to use MGShoryu, but I forgot what it was.

U gave me something to think about and finally i figured it out.

Anywhere on the screen, standing Akuma.
Taunt, jump+HP, HP, lk Tatsumaki, HP xx SAII. (stun). Finish.

The damage is sick. If Akuma was crouching, he would be killed before he got dizzy. However, the combo doesnt work cos the lk Tatsumaki whiffs.

****
Out of subject... can anybody tell me what happens when Ken kills Makoto with a neutral throw? Does it work in the DC?

***

[Donkus]

Yeah, that's the one, nice work.
Don't try this combo with the default DC controler because you will never be able to cancel the super from the close fierce. I spent 30 minutes tearing up my thumbs trying to cancel it and it didn't work.

That glitch is not on the DC.

[THChardcore]

nevermind

[Chupacabra]

Originally posted by BillyKane

--Ken stuff--



good read--thanks.