The arcadia tier list thread

[psycho kid]

As posted by Buktooth on his Japan Log thread.




King of Fighters 2003:

Top Tier:
Duo Lon

Mid Tier:
Daimon
K'
Billy
Jhun
Malin

"next rank":
Iori
Benimaru
Gato

Vampire Savior:

S Class:
Sasquatch
Zabel
Gallon
Q-Bee

A Class:
Felicia
Bulleta
Aulbath

B Class:
Demitri
Bishamon
Lei Lei

C Class:
Jedah
Lilith
Victor
Morrigan
Anakaris

Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution:

A Class:
Akira
Sara
Lau
Jacky
Pai
Kage

B Class:
Aoi
Lion
Shun
Lei Fei
Vanessa

C Class:
Wolf
Jeffry
Brad
Gou

Capcom Vs SNK 2:

Top Tier:
Blanka
Sagat

High Mid:
Sakura
Bison
Cammy
Guile
Chun Li
Geese
Rolento

Top Tier Grooves:
A Groove

Mid Tier Grooves:
C
K
P
N

Low Tier Grooves:
S

Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike:

A Class:
Yun
Chun Li
Ken
Makoto

B Class:
Urien
Oro
Yang
Dudley
Akuma
Elena

C Class:
Necro
Ryu
Alex
Ibuki
Remy

D Class:
Hugo
Twelve
Q
Sean

Tekken 4:

S Class:
Jin

A Class:
Lee (Violet)
Heihachi
Nina
Steve

B Class:
Xiaoyu
Brian
Yoshimitsu
Christie
Paul
Law

C Class:
Kazuya
King
Hwoarang
Marduk
Julia
Lei
Kuma/Panda

Samurai Spirits Zero:

S Class:
Yoshitora

A Class:
Yun Fei
Genjuro
Suija
Rasetsumaru
Hanzo
Kusaregedou

B Class:
Charlotte
Haohmaru
Kyoshiro
Ukyo
Tam Tam

C Class:
Shizumaru
Gaira
Rera
Jubei
Sougetsu
Galford

D Class:
Nakoruru
Kazuki
Rimururu

E Class:
Enja

Guilty Gear XX #Reload:

Top Tier:
Eddie
Robo Ky
Jam
Slayer

Mid Tier:
Sol
Axl
Millia
Faust
Dizzy
Bridget

Low Tier:
Baiken
Chipp
Testament
Potemkin
Johnny
Ino
Zappa
Venom
Ky
May
Anji


What makes Elena so good? Personally she should fit into the C class.
And Jam is top tier now :wtf:

[VkreW]

ii disagree on groves

top / k a c

mid n p

low s <-- imo dr b would think other wise

[N-Ken]

Originally posted by psycho kid


What makes Elena so good? Personally she should fit into the C class.
And Jam is top tier now :wtf:


c. mp, hit verify, super

Chun Li Light

[MCTek]

did i go blind or is Mina the SS5 Cable not on that list?

[archetype]

A Class:
Yun Fei
Genjuro
Suija
Rasetsumaru
Hanzo
Kusaregedou

WTF:confused:

can some one explain this?

peace

SKJ

[jae hoon]

Originally posted by MCTek
did i go blind or is Mina the SS5 Cable not on that list?

I didnt see her either

[MAGUS1234]

man I wish I can play #r, is Jam really that good in it?What changes is there?I mean in xx she is so bad.

[MCTek]

Retsumaru has lots of things going for him

He has a semi-useful fireball that leads to huge damage. It's good against characters that cannot retaliate after a blocked full range poke.

His standing B leads up to other things as well, he can mix the fireball up with this scrape, which I believe is good against people who wanna duck/roll the fireball. Canceling into his DP is pretty good, since it limits the opponent's poking options. Canceling into his shoulder tackle is awesome, since if you space it right it's very deceptive. Then you can throw.

Retsu charges up his Enlightenment pretty good, since he takes big rage damage. He charges up about one full unit of Enlightenment for every near-full rage bar or so.

Retsu's enlightenment combo is very safe, since you can keep doing blocked scrapes or shoulder tackles. Scrapes is nice for free blocked damage, and shoulder tackle launches the opponent so he can't rage break out.

Retsu's combo is easy as hell, B -> shoulder tackle, ground hit. Does 30 to 40 damage depending on rage and character.


Originally posted by archetype
A Class:
Yun Fei
Genjuro
Suija
Rasetsumaru
Hanzo
Kusaregedou

WTF:confused:

can some one explain this?

peace

SKJ

[gbursine]

can some1 explain why felicia>bbhood?(she somewhat counters aubath)

[UnCauzi]

Mina is ranked in the C class. You just expected her to be higher because you assumed she was good. She is NOT SS5 cable, far from it. So far everyone that's tried to prove to me otherwise did nothing but fuel my ego. (I was playing Kusegeredou for chrissakes lol)

Why? Mina sux, lol. Any character that eats throw/super/fierceslash and loses half life sux.
At least compared to the characters above her.
Even the slow huge target characters stand a
good chance against her.

Yun Fei: Simple he doesn't have to touch the ground if he doesn't want too. If he does play rush down he's about as close to SS5 Magneto as you're going to get. Special move with the green shit has insane priority. Not to mention he has great air priority and a badass ground game. Oh did I mention he can fly all fucking day for free? Oh and he enlightens REAL good.

Genjuro: What's not to understand, DP priority that's SICKENING. Fireball traps with blocked bouncing card. A cancellable fierce slash. The Rekkas from hell which you can switch up on a whim. A tricky decision up close between rekka and his multislash to throw. A wakeup super with badass priority. Not to mention the old tradition of crazy Genjuro damage in general and not one useless normal.

Suija: Mixups and a godly A attack. Seriously Suijas swordless hand is gawd. It's almost stupid how much priority it has. Couple that with some very useful air cancels (normal moves that leave him airborn thusly giving him the ability to use air specials moves close to the grond.) a good run and a air hvb like super and voila. I don't agree with this one as much though I'd put him high B.

Rasetsumaru: The other guy nailed it on the head already imo. Plus he can link his super off just about anything. Try jumping A+B, crouching c, standing, B, Shoulder Ram, Super. Or well anything including B+C super. Good damage overall and a great ranging projectile, running moves and basically Hao like damage. Counter is better than people think too. Super also great wake up.

Hanzo: Crouching d/f +D + the many follow ups. Priority whore, really Hanzo is just that good at running around you fucking shit up. He also has a chain thats kind of hard to do, similar to his SSII chain. I'd quote it but I don't know it exactly I'll ask Mad when I get a chance. Super throw is very feasible also.

KUSE!: People didn't believe me but yer, Kuse is a fucking beast in the right hands. It's all a matter of playing a good Kuse player that can setup his throw. It's bloody almost half life by itself, then there's the super throw, then there's the normal cancels that you don't see most Kuses doing. (Kao Megura has in his guide that Kuse can't cancel normals, this is BS) You'd be surprised how much shit Kuse can grab u out of. Including some extremely difficult to avoid tick setups. Remember he's got a one frame kick lol, so poking isn't a problem and a tongue move that's low and goes about half screen if not more. He covers so much area with his normals that if you fuck up yoru hit, if you're playing a person with good reaction time running in to throw Kuse is SUICIDE. Read DUCK, Special throw/super throw. Half Life or more. Challenger had some okay Kuse matches on it a bit ago, and apparently a Kuse player one the tournament ;)

I just think Hao needs a little more credit than what's given here and maybe Kyoshiro.

[RedBeard]

I'm wondering why Yun Fei isn't considered S-Class like Yoshitora. Yes, Yoshitora is a badass up close an all and he basically whoops everyone and has the infinite and the dumb slash move is insanely good, but Yun Fei can tag someone ONCE, just once, and run away for the rest of the round easy. Even I could play Yun Fei and have a pretty damn high success rate. One single tag of air slash and you win.

[EVERDRED]

Originally posted by N-Ken



c. mp, hit verify, super

Chun Li Light

ummm... i dont think thats all japan is doing with elena, cus anyone can hit confirm that.

[UnCauzi]

Originally posted by RedBeard
I'm wondering why Yun Fei isn't considered S-Class like Yoshitora. Yes, Yoshitora is a badass up close an all and he basically whoops everyone and has the infinite and the dumb slash move is insanely good, but Yun Fei can tag someone ONCE, just once, and run away for the rest of the round easy. Even I could play Yun Fei and have a pretty damn high success rate. One single tag of air slash and you win.


If it was just that easy to get ahead of the other characters I'd agree, and some characters can hit Yun Fei out of the air.

[amefall]

not a vampire savior buff, but isnt donovan in that entry of the series, yet he's not ranked

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by psycho kid
As posted by Buktooth on his Japan Log thread.

King of Fighters 2003:

Top Tier:
Duo Lon Suck it, SNK fanfags.

[gbursine]

Originally posted by amefall
not a vampire savior buff, but isnt donovan in that entry of the series, yet he's not ranked

donovan, phobos, and pyron are switched back in, in VS2. vs2 doesnt have aubath, sasquatch, and galleon

[Virtua_Leon]

Damn i'm glad rasetsumaru is ranked so high, at first i thought he was kind of crappy but after i while i started to realise how good he was, i kind of think gaira would have been higher, i know he's got some bad matches but still his grab is monsterous, also reara being so low is a bit of a shock to oh oh and shizamaru i remember ALOT of people raving about him, he seems to have fallen in the shitter

[Kono]

Did anyone disagree with Duolon being God in 2k3? And who cares anyway, the game is dead in Japan now that SBO is over, and it's not even popular in Korea, despite the fact that Duolon is banned there.

[jericho_mpm]

duo lon just sold out snk/playmore standard

[Atomic Moth]

Originally posted by psycho kid
As posted by Buktooth on his Japan Log thread.
Tekken 4:

S Class:
Jin

A Class:
Lee (Violet)
Heihachi
Nina
Steve

B Class:
Xiaoyu
Brian
Yoshimitsu
Christie
Paul
Law

C Class:
Kazuya
King
Hwoarang
Marduk
Julia
Lei
Kuma/Panda


I know no one here cares,but:
Why is Heihachi so high. I would have figured he is at the most B, probably C class though. And Xiaoyu should be bumped up a notch. I'm not going to argue about Jin though, i've done that too much.

[Yumi Saotome]

Why is Rimururu so low? She is a nasty bitch to fight against with her dash back d + s ice ledges and the ledge mixups on your get up. Also the run kick into d+s is BS too. I think she should be slightly worse than Shizumaru.

Yeah, Mina sucks. Get one solid hit on her, and it's over. You can simply block the rest of the round.

I always thought Galford sucks, being a Galford player myself, but I'm surprised to see him in C class. The Japanese must know something that I don't...

[N-Ken]

Originally posted by EVERDRED


ummm... i dont think thats all japan is doing with elena, cus anyone can hit confirm that.

Not everyone has a good one though, and I didn't mean that's all she had, but in general, she seems to be similar to Chun just on a smaller scale. And no, not everyone has c. mp -> super.

[popoblo]

remember buk said most of these tier lists were generally disregarded among top players, especially in cvs2. so take these tier rankings with a grain of salt

[Virtua_Leon]

Yeah, i'm wondering myself why heiachi is so high up!
I'll admit i'm no great tekken player but as soon as i played 4 and used him i was bewildered at some of the changes they'd made
the japaneseobviously know something we dont (as usual) :lol:

[archetype]

I wish Enja was higher up:( He is my favorite character but he really sux.

peace

SKJ

[ryucross]

Jam in #R - they made her faster, stronger, and safer. She's almost back to GGX levels of stupidity.

[Superking]

Originally posted by gbursine


donovan, phobos, and pyron are switched back in, in VS2. vs2 doesnt have aubath, sasquatch, and galleon

Yep and in Vampire Hunter 2 which was the upgrade before VS2, Donovan, Phobos and Pyron were put in place of Lilith, Bulleta, Q-Bee and Jedah.

The only "perfect" version of VS was the Saturn version, which was just VS but with Pyron, Donovan and Phobos added in. But seeing as there was news with Capcom releasing the DC-only Vampire Chronicle in arcades a la HSF, that arcade standard might change again. :confused:

[Saotome Kaneda]

Originally posted by Virtua_Leon
Yeah, i'm wondering myself why heiachi is so high up!
I'll admit i'm no great tekken player but as soon as i played 4 and used him i was bewildered at some of the changes they'd made
the japaneseobviously know something we dont (as usual) :lol:

Hei has safe JF Hell Sweeps and some stupid frame advantages on some moves I can't remember. EWGF is still good, and ff+2 still tech-crouches too much shit.

As for SS5, Suija is teh gay. He deserves the spot he got. Although I still can beat an average one with Tam. =p Mina should be C or D class, but even Enja has a chance of eating her lunch.

[Robyrt]

Totally agree with the grain of salt comment. Actually knowing what some of the top players have said about VF4e, there are some significant differences. In particular, the top tier is basically the girls (minus Vanessa) and Lei-Fei, and Wolf/Goh are back in mid tier where they belong. (A wolf player got 2nd in a national tourny last year, that doesn't sound like low tier material to me.)

[drzero7]

Hello, new to this board, but I know alot of you cause I read alot of the forum stuff here. It just that I finally decided to join. Meh

(Some of you may remember me from GameFAQ or Gamecombos forum)

Anyway, I gotta complain about some of the tiers...

SSZ: Where's Mina. Her arrows are cheap as crap, especially against Kusaregedou, although overall, she isn't top tier. But other then that, it makes sense. Yoshitora is wayyy overpowered. But I hate Yun Fei the most. He's basically Storm from MvC2 in this game. WAYYYY to much hovering-in-air turtle to win by timeout. That ****er! And your missing Basara in that list.

Vampire Savior

WTF is Lilith doing bottom Tier! She's #1 TOP TIER in that game. Cheap as crap. I've seen plently of match vids of this game where she just rapes players.

And Morrigan and Victor needs some boost up the ranks. (But I won't say top tier) Yeah, Jedah is definately bottom tier. (But he's my fav too :( )

Or is this another version of Vampire Savior or something?

Kof 2003: Your missing alot of people... But from the chars you posted so far... it sounds about right. Duo Lon is cheap :evil:

3S: Huh? I thought Urien was top tier cause of his cheap forcefield Super. But yeah, other then that, the rest seems good and make sense. Gosh I HATE Yun's custom combo.

#R: Why are there SOOO many low tiers. >_>; Alot of them should be mid. I love Dizzy, but I'll put her as bottom tier and put some chars like Ino, Venom, Pot, etc. to mid tier. Yeah, Jam is scary now in #R. And I would put Robo Ky as high med, and Millia should be still top tier IMO.

[MrQuotes]

Originally posted by Virtua_Leon
Yeah, i'm wondering myself why heiachi is so high up!
I'll admit i'm no great tekken player but as soon as i played 4 and used him i was bewildered at some of the changes they'd made
the japaneseobviously know something we dont (as usual) :lol:

JF hell sweeps
blockstun
d+1
evasive devastating moves(ws+2 is an example)

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Originally posted by Robyrt
Totally agree with the grain of salt comment. Actually knowing what some of the top players have said about VF4e, there are some significant differences. In particular, the top tier is basically the girls (minus Vanessa) and Lei-Fei, and Wolf/Goh are back in mid tier where they belong. (A wolf player got 2nd in a national tourny last year, that doesn't sound like low tier material to me.)

Well, see, this is a point of debate. A short while ago, someone (I think WCMaxi) went to Japan. He spent quite a bit of time at Beat Tribe (THE VF hotspot in Japan) and none of the players there agreed with those tier listings that you mentioned. Just about every one of them said top 3 was Akira/Kage/Pai, with Lau and Jacky right behind.

And BTW, when did a Wolf get 2nd at a national, and who was it? I never heard about that one...although I will also add to your point by bringing up the latest Tokyo Bay Area Cup; this one was won by Chibita and two top Wolfs (Hideo and Chemuru, the latter of whom used to be awesome at 3s before he quit for this game).

Thanks,
Josh.

[Storming Flower]

i think us/korea>>japan in tekken 4.

xiaoyu should definitely be bumped up.

jin,steve,nina is top 3 i think followed by xiaoyu maybe lee and hei.

[cygnus]

Originally posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC
Well, see, this is a point of debate. A short while ago, someone (I think WCMaxi) went to Japan. He spent quite a bit of time at Beat Tribe (THE VF hotspot in Japan) and none of the players there agreed with those tier listings that you mentioned. Just about every one of them said top 3 was Akira/Kage/Pai, with Lau and Jacky right behind.

When Kyasao came to the NYC, he was asked about his thoughts on tiers in VF. He said that #1 was Lei, followed by Sarah, Pai, and Aoi. During a later trip when Heruru came with Kyasao, Heruru said he thought the top was Sarah, Pai, and Aoi with Lei right behind them. He also emphasized that Lei was the strongest male character by far.

I think the whole problem with varying opinions on VF tiers is that some characters are very underplayed in Japan. Part of the reason is that VF players have strong loyalty toward the characters they play. Akira, Kage, Lau, Pai, and Jacky have always been part of the series, therefore they naturally end up with more players using them. There is no doubt that Lei, Vanessa, and (to a lesser extent) Aoi are very strong, but there are so few top players that use them, it's hard for many players to guage how good they really are.

[RushDown178]

storming flower - totally agree with jin/nina/steve as top 3.

when kyasao came to nyc, eveyrone else said his thoughts were "arguable," and at Evo, Chibita said the top tiers in vf were Akira, Kage and Jacky IIRC, but I know he said Akira was def. #1.
Heruru's a cocky bastard, of course he'll rank lei fei high :p

[EVERDRED]

Originally posted by N-Ken


Not everyone has a good one though, and I didn't mean that's all she had, but in general, she seems to be similar to Chun just on a smaller scale. And no, not everyone has c. mp -> super.

yeah i know that, i play the game. "a watered down chun" that's what i heard someone quote from some japanese player.

[Robyrt]

My bad, that was a VF4c tournament (Segaru's Wolf got 2nd to Napoleon's Jacky). I think the disparity here is an example of theory fighter tiers (where the girls are top by virtue of speed alone) versus actual tiers (where Akira, Jacky, Kage are the ones who win tournaments, because they're reliable and popular).

[Ryu1999]

Originally posted by UnCauzi



If it was just that easy to get ahead of the other characters I'd agree, and some characters can hit Yun Fei out of the air.

Those latest A-cho vids made me think:

A) Yun Fei makes SS0 the most retarded game in the world
B) Its easier than you think to win with him and from a casual observer, he should be in S class with Yoshi

[Zigmover21]

Kyasao isn't exactly a top VF player these days.....:confused:

[Iceman]

Originally posted by drzero7
#R: Why are there SOOO many low tiers. >_>; Alot of them should be mid. I love Dizzy, but I'll put her as bottom tier and put some chars like Ino, Venom, Pot, etc. to mid tier. Yeah, Jam is scary now in #R. And I would put Robo Ky as high med, and Millia should be still top tier IMO.

I disagree with 90% of that. Dizzy is where she belongs. She still has good damage potental. The Ice Spike FRC is the only thing she lost. Then she has virtually everything else about her improved. She doesn't have any horrid match-ups aside from maybe Eddie, Slayer and Jam (who doesn't have trouble with at least 2 of those 3?). She's solid now.

Venom, yeah, he's good. Pot, probably deserves up there but has some poor match-ups like DIZZY, Eddie...and Jam's no picnic. But he beats Slayer :p

Robo-Ky is scary. Solid ground pokes, great damage potential. When he gets 1/2 tension he his specials become nuts. The heat gauge his a godsend for him, because once he gets heat 6HS is awesome.

Millia was toned down. She lost some damage and was slowed down slightly. She is right where she belongs.

I have some disagreements with that list (Venom, Axl, maybe Ky) but overall it isn't too bad.

[UnCauzi]

Originally posted by Ryu1999


Those latest A-cho vids made me think:

A) Yun Fei makes SS0 the most retarded game in the world
B) Its easier than you think to win with him and from a casual observer, he should be in S class with Yoshi

I know it's easy to win with him but I've seen Yoshis win even easier. That's all. But yeah he's a class above the rest, but Yoshi Imo is better than he is. Anyway he's been toned along with Yoshi in Special.

[Bloody Yukata]

Maybe Yoshi is S+ and Yun Fei is S. That could work.

As much as I like Mina she needs to be C or D. You hit her with AB slash the match is truly over.

If she had moves with good block damage on them she might be higher up. Since she really doesn't do block damage she is not as effective.

[UnCauzi]

Originally posted by Bloody Yukata
Maybe Yoshi is S+ and Yun Fei is S. That could work.

As much as I like Mina she needs to be C or D. You hit her with AB slash the match is truly over.

If she had moves with good block damage on them she might be higher up. Since she really doesn't do block damage she is not as effective.

I can agree with this. Although people call her cable she has no AHVB, no reliable chip, no real get off of me move with priority, and no comboable attacks that lead to super outside of enlightenment. Personally I don't even think she's that good against Kuse.

[sentinal86]

i always thought tiers in vf4evo were nonexistent.if there are any kind of tiers there isnt much differece from top and bottom.

[Zakuta]

lol, so many #r low tiers, yet; when it came to SBO2, a certain 'low tier' rose to the occasion.

;]

[cygnus]

Originally posted by Zigmover21
Kyasao isn't exactly a top VF player these days.....:confused:

Doesn't matter how good he is compared to other guys nowadays. His knowledge is just as vast. He is still a part of the VF scene and attends every single big tournament.

[DVS1]

So he's like Viscant....

[UnCauzi]

Oh and for all the people that think Yun Fei and Yoshitora are that uber broken in SS0 check out the SBO finals :P

[archetype]

Originally posted by UnCauzi
Oh and for all the people that think Yun Fei and Yoshitora are that uber broken in SS0 check out the SBO finals :P

I was just about to mention that. I was surprised that they weren't used in the finals or by the winners. I just started playin that game and its the shiz.

peace

SKJ

[TS]

How a character is tiered does not determine whether they are good or bad.

Way back when in the SF community, when they tried to answer the question of which characters were best in which games, they put them in list form. Later, they were broken up into groups of relatively equal standing. "Tier" means level, in regards to height or relative position (ie a wedding cake is tiered, many jobs/schools are tiered depeneding on experience/position etc...).

So, again, a tier is an item or bunch of things which can be grouped together. This is not indicative of balance, because of how vague it is. 8th best character in VF4 may be able to hang with Akira, whereas the 8th best character in VF1 or KOF2k4 may be a piece of crap not worth playing. Distance from mthe top spot means only that a character isn't expected to win as many matches, not that they suck.
Similarly, just because a character is #2 or 3 in the overall rankings, doesn't mean they don't get pounded on by the best character, or have any better shot against certain characters/tactics than the one ranked at number 12.

I point this out, because some people in this thread (and on SRK in general) don't seem to understand this concept.

[Rick Fn Stalvey]

Oh and for all the people that think Yun Fei and Yoshitora are that uber broken in SS0 check out the SBO finals :P


UnC where can I find some good SS5 shit around the net?? I am interested in the SBO finals as well. I just got into SS5 again as it just came out on XB live. Some ppl on S-S.com claim they will massacre everyone on XBLive, some "Team Chinatown Killer".

Anyways I am doing alot better than expected. I picked up Rasetsumaru right away, cause he can punish easy but found out he had tons more to offer!! I use the s.B to shoulder rush to that shit is golden. I also leaned how to escape better with back/forward roll, and the hop forward thingy/thow punish type moves. My first 2 matches some retard owned me with sankuro special till I realized I could just lay on the ground, and duck that that shit!! So far I think the XB version is great, Im just not sure if the Yoshi infinites are in there or if some combos do work anymore. Cant get the Jumpin AB c.C s.B Shoulder to the super to work yet.

Hope all is well UnC!!