Tier Discussion For Old School Fighting Games

[Hitman]

Been playing Xbox emulator and went through a lot of older fighting games. I am very curious who do you guys consider top tier in:

SF2: Champion Edition

SF2: Hyper Fighting

Fatal Fury Special

KOF 94

KOF 95

Art of Fighting 1 (VS Mode Of Course)

Art of Fighting 2

World Heroes

World Heroes 2

Samurai Shodown 1

If there are other games of that era let me know :-)

[epsilon_]

SF2:CE-Bison is top, idk if I wanna say God, but hes very close.

HF-Ryu is top because he has the fastest fireball iirc.

[mr.hadoken]

WW Guile and Sim
CE Bison
HF Guile and Sim again
Super Sagat
ST not sure but i hear a mix of Balrog Old Sagat and Akuma being god tier

A1 Guy Rose Akuma
A2 Rose Chun Li Ken Ryu
A3 not sure

FF Special I hear is D.KIng
Sam Sho 2 Ukyo
SF3NG Yun Yang
SF3SI Akuma and Ibuki

[epsilon_]

SF3:NG was Ibuki all day lol.

ST-Well Akuma is god but he's not allowed when good people play. Top is O.Sagat, Dhalsim, and Rog.

SF3:2i-Top Akuma, Ibuki, Sean


WW was Guile ALL DAY Sim was a far away 2nd.



HF- Ryu, Sim, Guile (I think) not sure about Sim.


Dunno about A1, you're A2 is right. A3 is V Akuma, A Sim, V Sak, V Geif, V Ryu

[caliagent#3]

SS1 - charlotte. she's too good in that game

[Saotome Kaneda]

Umm....

HF- Ryu(Jab SRK, frame adv on fireballs), Sagat(DAMAGE) GIEF('nuff said). Sim and Guile were not even close in there. Gief is disgustingly good in this one.

CE- Bison and IIRC Sagat(once again, simple damage) again. I forget who else was up there.

[Virtua_Leon]

These are not SOLID fact but here goes anyway

1) kof94 i heard alot of ramblings about england being god like because of king alltough i dont belive it myself i think Mexico, japan

2) kof 95 - Eiji, iori, kyo This game is made broken though i mean MAD basically whoever powers up first is probably going to win

3) FF special - i have a friend who won a big tourney here way way back and he's allways said Jubei and mai, mai is godlike on her stage apprantly

4) world heros probably fuma and hanzo not sure

5) world heros 2 - EVERYBODY except mudman, you only have to get in a hit with more or less anybody and it's game over everybody has 100% that are piss easy

6) AOF2 - mickey,king

7) SS1 - charllote and gen-an

As for the old sf games i've read ALOT of different things

This is just what i've read so please do not go into one

sf2 - Guile sim

CE - Bison sagat guile

HF - honda ken

ssf2- sagat

I remember seeing balrog boxer TOP in either hf or CE and i definently do not remember seeing ryu top in ANY sf game, how solid that list was is debateable, but really any tier list is debateable i guess it's what makes tiering so interesting to a certain extent

Also i'd like to see the ranking for kof 96 if anybody knows it, i have my own theorys i'd just like to hear anybody elses

[ReptarBar]

a1- akuma, guy, sodom, ken

in that order

[KaiSingrz]

SS2: Ukyo. Swallow swipe zoning is too insane. Not to mention he has some of the fastest pokes in the game, all of which can be comboed straight into an after image slash.

SS3: Bust Haoh. Most retarded infinite in the history of fighting games.

MK2: Mileena and Jax. Charged up sai and ground pound can be released at wil. Kung Lao and Liu Kang came up next.

[Vidness]

HK: Ken (Touch of death!!)

MK2: Mileena (the original AHVB) and Kung Lao was a PIMP with that dive kick

[Ubersaurus]

In fatal fury special, Duck King was good cuz of his simple infinite if you could get in close enough to use it. Joe Higashi also had the same infinite, Mai had some pretty simple damage and a quick, hard to punish air dive on her stage. Jubei had some nasty command grab setups, especially in the corner. Lawrence and Billy had some pretty good poke games going on, as well. But Kim IMO is the best in that game...he's got some simple damage options, good priority, and even a mediocre player can do some damage with him. And if you're playing a rom set up with Ryo unlocked, then don't even bother with anyone else-he was unlockable only on the home cart, and he broke the game something terrible.


I want to say Ken was super good in CE as well, but for the life of me, I can't remember why...I think it was a touch of death combo.

[epsilon_]

Honda and ken top if HF wtf?! It's Ryu for sure, rest are debateable.

VS-Sasquatch, Q Bee, Lord Raptor.


SFEX+alpha-Zangief runs that shit.

Xvsf-Storm, Gambit


MVC1-Strider, Red Venom, War Machine, Gold War Machine

[BlueMary69]

xvssf-charlie and magneto

HF-Ken is the man!!!:D

[Jake]

mag is nothing like he is in mvc2 in xvsf, he's good but not top.

[Remy Saotome]

ST is considered pretty balanced. Every character has certain matches that they can win, and every character has certain match-ups in which they will invariable lose. Except Akuma, who is so omnipotent that he is banned from tourneys.

In CE, M. Bison was the undisputed top, as Psycho Crushers chipped like mad and were very hard to stop. Underneath him was debatable between Sim, Guile, and Ryu, as they were the only characters who could reliably beat PCs. One thing to remember about this game, however, was that almost everyone, if not everyone, had Touch of Death comboes.

[VincentDelpino]

In CE, M. Bison was the undisputed top, as Psycho Crushers chipped like mad and were very hard to stop. Underneath him was debatable between Sim, Guile, and Ryu, as they were the only characters who could reliably beat PCs. One thing to remember about this game, however, was that almost everyone, if not everyone, had Touch of Death comboes. [/B][/QUOTE]

yes i believe everyone but dhalsim had re-dizzy combos

in the original street fighter 2 world warrior Zangief could not be stopped once you were knocked down. with no wake up moves there was no way to get away from a short kick/spd you either took the hit and were grabbed or blocked and were grabbed and then he landed 2 steps away to do it all over again

[EWAShock]

I'll try and cover the 2D MK's

MK1: Sonya, Johnny Cage
MK2: Mileena, Jax, Liu Kang, Kitana
MK3: Sub-zero, Kabal, Nightwolf, Jax, Robot Smoke, Kano
UMK3: Kabal, Human Smoke, Kung Lao, Nightwolf, Robot Smoke, Kano, Jax, Ermac
MKT: Noob Saibot, Kabal, MK2 Kung Lao, Human Smoke, Nightwolf, Baraka, Robot Smoke, Rain, Kano, Jax, Ermac

Matt

[koogy]

Originally posted by EWAShock
I'll try and cover the 2D MK's

MK1: Sonya, Johnny Cage
MK2: Mileena, Jax, Liu Kang, Kitana
MK3: Sub-zero, Kabal, Nightwolf, Jax, Robot Smoke, Kano
UMK3: Kabal, Human Smoke, Kung Lao, Nightwolf, Robot Smoke, Kano, Jax, Ermac
MKT: Noob Saibot, Kabal, MK2 Kung Lao, Human Smoke, Nightwolf, Baraka, Robot Smoke, Rain, Kano, Jax, Ermac

Matt

can you please explain why these are the tiers. thank you.

[Crayfish]

I love MK2 but always heard it suffered from god tier:

Jax




Mileena


Lui Kang
Kung Lao
etc..


Reptile (shame I like him)

[Bloody Yukata]

What's up with some Eternal Champions Challenge from the Dark Side.

[Atomic Moth]

Uh, since we're going into MK does anyone know the tiers of Tekken 1 and Tekken 2? I could never find any info on these.

[EWAShock]

Originally posted by kugler


can you please explain why these are the tiers. thank you.

I can explain in more detail MK3, UMK3, and MKT, so if someone wants to brush up the MK1 and 2, go ahead

MK1
Sonya, to quotre Lex, fast unpunishable sweep, and her leg grab has insane range, Johnny cage, shadow kick, high priority normals.

MK2
Mileena, fast, manueverable, spamming sai shots, jump kick, roll, high damage easy juggles, Jax, sweep backbreaker, ground pound -> HK, Liu Kang, speed, air fireball, high damage bike kick, dragon kick, Kitana fan lift to endless corner combos, fan traps, jump kick, wave punch for manueverability.

MK3
Sub-zero, Ice Clone doesn't disappear when you do it on an opponent, it's the cheapest shit ever, possibly the only thing he has going for him, but it's more than enough, Kabal, spin's collision box is gigantic, big damage combos, eye laser is great in air, Nightwolf, rush down, stomp hits ducking blocking opponents, big damage combos, shoulder tackle is fast, mix it up with his combo to get people scouting the tackle for the counter, Robot Smoke, high damage combos, best air throw, fast, pressure with run jabs is crazy cause he stays so close, teleport uppercut when used right is a deadly weapon, then JK to air throw = 45% in 3 attacks, Kano, best sweeper, air throw, cannonball is instant, high damage easy corner combos, Jax, very similar, but has better zoning with endless single missiles that have no recovery time

UMK3
Human Smoke, easy 50% combo, launcher, air throw, juggling nightmare, teleport punch for maneuverability, Kung Lao's hit box for his spin was made perfect, and is unlimited as long as there's a hit in the middle, corner infinites in abundance, mid screen infinites, teleport, big chain combo, dash kick, Ermac, similar to Smoke without the air throw, bigger juggling combos, potentiall 75% mid screen starting with an anti air lift, teleport punch for maneuverability, Jax goes down a bit cause they added lag to his missile

MKT
Noob Saibot, cheap as hell with the super fast no recovery disabler, has infinites in some versions of MKT, but in the only one people consider official, he doesn't have legit inescable one, MK2 Kung Lao, insanely high damage combos, does MK2 level damage on top of that, teleport, infinites galore, high chip damage, fast character, truly complete, Baraka, best jump kick and jump punch, blade spin can be used like Kung Lao's spin, but sets up and easy 57% damage combo, corner 100% off the spin if you don't accidentally lock up the game with it lol, fast sweep, roundhouse, great uppercut and HK, blade fury is still good, Rain, semi-easy infinite, rain ball can be used too many times, lightening is sudden, but scoutable

[Dasrik]

CE Bison isn't good because of psycho crusher, he's good because of scissor kick (it has like 23643634632 frame advantage or some shit).

HF Tiers IMO

Top: Ryu, Sagat, Guile
Upper: Honda, Chun-Li, Ken, Zangief
Middle: Dhalsim, Balrog, Blanka
Bottom: Vega, Bison

Whoever said Guile was not top is smoking. Guile's still a really good character. Sure, his Flash Kick is not quite as good, but he still has an assortment of normal move anti-airs that get the job done fine.

Ken is overrated since he has to land a clean hit to get his TOD, and his special moves are just flat out not as good as Ryu's. Honda is really good in HF because Ryu is the only fireball character who flat out owns him (Ken is harder, but because of his slower fireball it is VERY doable). Zangief is really good too... unescapable SPD setups that are hard to stop if you don't have a boffo anti-air. Chun-Li is almost cheating good here; her only major issue is lack of damage - if she had a good combo she'd be top tier.

Blanka has ambiguous cross-up setups galore but if you don't get a knockdown he is bleh... Dhalsim's damage and priority were WAAAAY toned down and a lot of characters can beat him on damage trades alone. HF Balrog has some tricks (Apoc probably knows more than me on this).

Vega and Bison... yuck.

[Vampire Savior]

Hyper Fighting

1.) Guile
2.) Ryu
3.) Sagat
4.) M. Bison
5.) Zangief
6.) Ken
7.) Chun-Li
8.) Balrog
9.) E. Honda
10.) Blanka
11.) Dhalsim
12.) Vega

I'd say Sagat & Ryu are pretty tied and Guile is the god of Hyper Fighting. He was defensive master, with agressive poke strings, a great projectile & the only redizzy combo in the game. Ken runs HF, that's news to me. Ryu & Ken still had just about the same combos and all but a few things made Ryu better since Ryu's fireball was faster and projectiles kinda made this game unlike later SF's, Ryu was a good match-up for Sagat, Ken unfortuantley was not! Ryu could play fireball wars with Sagat and his defensive LP Shoryuken was a good tool on Sagat. The reckless and offensive Ken would never work on Sagat. While Zangief was another big contender. He had a new faster Clothesline to go through low attacks I think it was. Chun-Li was good as well with her upgraded Spinning Bird Kick which was still decent and a fireball used more for spacing & pressure. I apologize to any Dhalsim fans but a Yoga Teleport wouldnt stop Guile maybe Sagat & Ryu but he didnt have all the new limb attacks and everything in Super Turbo where I think he was his best. While Vega, as long as you cant retreat his claw :( he sucks kinda.

[js2756]

Have to put Ryu on the top of the heap for HF. Just has too many tools to fuck with everyone, jab DP, hella good fireball, invincible start up HKs, etc.

XvsSF is hard to tier, since everyone has some sort of BS that usually led to infinite. The best characters were the ones who had the easiest time to land their BS, which are IMO, Storm, Cyke and Chun.

[newbieGary]

Ryu>Guile in HF.
Guile>Ryu in CE and WW.

[Richard]

Originally posted by Dasrik
CE Bison is good because of scissor kick (it has like 23643634632 frame advantage or some shit).

HF Tiers IMO

Bottom: Vega, Bison
Is there some subtle difference that I've forgotten here? I thought Bison was pretty much identical in the two games, and I don't think all 11 other characters have improved that much that he goes from top to bottom...

[Crayfish]

The things that made CE Bison strong were:
Psycho Crusher
Sissor Kick
C.Fierce
and all three got totaly depowered in HF, leaving him with allmost nothing.

Dasrik has pretty much got it perfect, tho some might argue that Chun and Blanka swap places (there are an army of HF Blanka proponents out there). Chun actualy gives Guile a good game here if she can get her fireball zone game going cause her s.Forward beats Guile's jumpins. I would agree that Ryu prolly just edges it overall. Balrog is the funny one in this version, tho generaly considered low overall, he is a specialist Ryu and Sagat killer due to his anti fireball TurnPunch tricks.
Really looking forward to some of the old guys coming out for HSF2 AE with thier HF Ryu's and CE Bisons.
:eek: Oh I've just had a horrible thought, you just know when HSF2 AE comes online there are going to be 27362504759072048957489527 cheap lag CE Bisons on there:bluu:

Crayfish.

[timekillr]

Originally posted by EWAShock


I can explain in more detail MK3, UMK3, and MKT, so if someone wants to brush up the MK1 and 2, go ahead

MK1
Sonya, to quotre Lex, fast unpunishable sweep, and her leg grab has insane range, Johnny cage, shadow kick, high priority normals.


Yeah, I agree with Sonya's unpunishable sweep. She's the only character that has an unpunishable sweep. Cage was also very high tier, but high priority normals? His only 'different' normal was his uppercut, and it was plenty quick but had less range than same-speed uppers of Raiden. Raiden's uppercuts were plenty quick, iirc. Then again MK1 had 6 revisions, so..

I think Scorpion was also very high, a bit lower than Sonya and Cage but abusing his glitches made him very powerful(all 3 teleport glitches). His only problem was the same Sub-Zero, Sonya and Liu Kang; very slow jumping punches. The other characters have insanely fast and good jumping punches; the 2 Ninjas, Liu and Sonya don't, and it's a big disadvantage for them. It's a great anti-air, provides plenty of combo opportunities, allows for infinites in earlier versions, etc.

And you're the only one who mentioned Kitana in MK2. She was very high tier, with VERY high damage combos with her fans, great zoning, great anti-air, etc.

[Stevemega]

CE Sagat Tiger upper was god-tier, took like 3 to kill, ridiculous range + priority.

Guile's redizzy's were amazing in the sense that they were so easy to pull off.

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by Richard
Is there some subtle difference that I've forgotten here? I thought Bison was pretty much identical in the two games, and I don't think all 11 other characters have improved that much that he goes from top to bottom... Bison's HF scissor kick has 23523523523 frame DISadvantage, so you get raped even if it connects. Plus an overly raped charge time. And his psycho crusher is Not As Good. Scissor Kick was the bulk of the reason he was so good, his game revolved around getting you to block that.

[TS]

Damn. People listing XSF as old school...

[ShinjiGohan]

Originally posted by TS
Damn. People listing XSF as old school...

Thinking about it, I have to agree, same thing with SFEX+

[master akuma]

Originally posted by Hitman
Been playing Xbox emulator and went through a lot of older fighting games. I am very curious who do you guys consider top tier in:

SF2: Champion Edition

SF2: Hyper Fighting

Fatal Fury Special

KOF 94

KOF 95

Art of Fighting 1 (VS Mode Of Course)

Art of Fighting 2

World Heroes

World Heroes 2

Samurai Shodown 1

If there are other games of that era let me know :-)

KoF 94: Mexico Team is a beast.

KoF 95: Ryo, Kyo, Terry, Takuma, Iori

SF2CE: Ken, Ryu, Guile.

other games:

Alpha 1: Akuma takes the cake (easy) and then Ken, Ryu, Chun Li, Guy.

Alpha 2: Shin Akuma kicks the shit out everyone --> that´s why he´s super banned from any tournament (duh!) then the tier: Ken, Evil Ryu, Ryu, Chun Li, Akuma.

[epsilon_]

^Why do you even bother posting!?

How can you not even include Bison in CE top tiers. Why Ryu Ken and Guile? Tiers are not based on your favorite characters. Evil Ryu, Akuma, and Shin Akuma for A2, right. A2 Is Ryu, Ken, Chun, Rose.

[Dark Gaiden]

Originally posted by ShinjiGohan


Thinking about it, I have to agree, same thing with SFEX+

Old Skool Street Fighter = WW, CE & HF

ST is borderline/debatable as old skool since it came out in 94 aka when SF was dying/dead (mainstream wise).

[Serpent]

Originally posted by epsilon_
^Why do you even bother posting!?

How can you not even include Bison in CE top tiers. Why Ryu Ken and Guile? Tiers are not based on your favorite characters. Evil Ryu, Akuma, and Shin Akuma for A2, right. A2 Is Ryu, Ken, Chun, Rose.

Evil Ryu is actually debatebly up there. The thing is the game kinda died anyway so nobody cared.

[ShinjiGohan]

Originally posted by Dark Gaiden


Old Skool Street Fighter = WW, CE & HF

ST is borderline/debatable as old skool since it came out in 94 aka when SF was dying/dead (mainstream wise).

I meant that I'm in agreement that SFEX should not be considered old school.

Shin Akuma isn't in the console for A2, and thus doesn't count, especially on a forum/thread made for the ARCADE versions of games.

[epsilon_]

Originally posted by Serpent


Evil Ryu is actually debatebly up there. The thing is the game kinda died anyway so nobody cared. I've never seen him listed in any top tier list.

[HellSap]

p1 evil ryu is top tier, p2 evil ryu is not!

[master akuma]

Originally posted by epsilon_
^Why do you even bother posting!?

How can you not even include Bison in CE top tiers. Why Ryu Ken and Guile? Tiers are not based on your favorite characters. Evil Ryu, Akuma, and Shin Akuma for A2, right. A2 Is Ryu, Ken, Chun, Rose.

I bother posting because last time that I checked this is a free forum (I think)

my english is not great but the guy who made this thread posted: ( I am very curious who do you guys consider top tier ) so that means he would like to know what each player consider top tier in old school fighting games.

Now I ask you the same question: why you even boder to quote me with that stupid question? :rolleyes:

I based my tiers in the way that I play and if you don´t like it then it´s your problem only, btw: you think that Evil Ryu is not top tier on Alpha 2... you said enought :)

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by master akuma
I based my tiers in the way that I play and if you don´t like it then it´s your problem only, btw: you think that Evil Ryu is not top tier on Alpha 2... you said enought :) He's not.

Well, if we're basing tiers on how well you play the characters personally, then Honda is top tier in all games he's in! Because he's my best character. Right? Right? P'shaw.

[4neqs]

Originally posted by Virtua_Leon

2) kof 95 - Eiji, iori, kyo This game is made broken though i mean MAD basically whoever powers up first is probably going to win

IMO its Heidern/Iori/Kyo

I think Heidern is tops in '95 actually. Considering how high the damage in this game is, the ability to regain life is a godsend. He has a great anti air (Moon Slasher) and sick combos revolving around it...if you get hit, just give up. :o

[ShinShotokan]

Anyone knows the tiering for Battle Arnea Toshinden?

I'm just curious...

[Apoc]

Originally posted by master akuma

I based my tiers in the way that I play and if you don´t like it then it´s your problem only, btw: you think that Evil Ryu is not top tier on Alpha 2... you said enought :)

Then you should say "These are MY best characters." That's totally different from being top tier. Top tier are the best characters in the game. It doesn't make any difference who you use because it's about which characters are better against the rest of the cast.

This thread said nothing about who YOU use.

That makes it your opinion of who you think is good and not what's top tier.

Just look at tourneys and you can see the tierings. There are a few dope players with lesser characters but aside from those players, tiers are obvious.

Apoc.

[box]

What about the SNES version of SF2, SF2 turbo, SSF2, and SFA2. Are the tiers for these versions any different from the arcade?

[!!Sazabi!!]

Originally posted by Atomic Moth
Uh, since we're going into MK does anyone know the tiers of Tekken 1 and Tekken 2? I could never find any info on these.

well im not to sure about the tiers for t1 and t2.. .i'll check tz.. .i'm positive that a.king is top tier in t1 tho.. .d/f+1 is just too good.. .

[Vampire Savior]

King of Fighters 94

Heavy D!
Lucky Glauber
Brian Battler
Heidern


King of Fighters 95

Heidern
Terry Bogard
Ryo Sakazaki
Kyo Kusanagi
Mai Shiranui
Takuma Sakazaki
Robert Garcia
Eiji Kisaragi

back then Iori was a little bitch and yes Heidern was top.

King of Fighters 96

Chin Gensai
Iori Yagami
Geese Howard
Kyo Kusanagi
Mature
Clark
Choi Bounge
Leona

King of Fighters 97
Athena Asamiya
Terry Bogard
Benimaru Nikaido
Blue Mary
Iori Yagami

King of Fighters 98
Takuma Sakazaki
RB Terry Bogard
Chris
Mature
Clark
Shingo Yabuki
Iori Yagami
Blue Mary
Ryuji Yamazaki

[*InVeRs3*]

Originally posted by ShinShotokan
Anyone knows the tiering for Battle Arnea Toshinden?

I'm just curious...

since i haven't played this game in sooo long, it might be a bit off.

BA2 tiers:

1.Neptune
2.Vermillion
3.Sho
4.Uranus
5.Eiji
6.Kain

[Drunken Master]

If anyone is wondering why HF Bison isn't tops should play CE bisons for a bit.. learn how to combo after your scissors. Learn the infinite.. Learn how to mindlessly hit d.HP as anti-air.. learn how to make [block and get thrown/or pressured, or get hit and die, or bait the counter] scissor traps..

Then you play HF and wonder where the fuck your scissor kick went and WTF happenned to your game.

I swear to god it's got to be the longest charge time EVER in HF.

Gotta admit, they DID do a really good job of toning him down. Too good. I imagine most CE bison players gave up on him in HF.

ST Bison is cool though. :)

[Remy Saotome]

Originally posted by Vampire Savior
King of Fighters 95
Mai Shiranui I've never been a big KoF player, but I thought that Mai has never been Top Tier, ever.

She's always Top in looks, though.

[tsubame]

Mai always seems to be pretty high up there in most games.

In 95 she had a great shoto game, easy super combo, easy combos, good speed and pokes.

For Alpha 2, I had Rose top tier, then Chun Li and Ken, Ryu just below those three.

[Burning]

King of Fighters 94 :
* Ikari team

King of Fighters 95 :
* Ikari team
* Iori

King of Fighters 96 :
* Chin
* shin Ikari team
* Iori
* Kyo

King of Fighters 97 :
* Iori
* Choi
* Mary
* King
* Terry
* Leona
* Beni'
* Goro

King of Fighters 98 :
* alt. Ryo
* Chizuru
* Goro
* O. Yashiro
* O. Chris
* Iori


SF2 WW :
* Dhalsim
* Guile
* ChunLi

SF2 dash :
* Vega (jp name)
* Guile
* Sagat

SF2 dash turbo :
* Honda
* M.Bison (boxer)
* Ryu


With the courtesy of Gamest ;p and V-Ryu

[Dasrik]

No offense, but that doesn't sound right at all.

Chun-Li is pretty ass in WW. If anyone is #3 it's Zangief without a doubt.

And those Turbo rankings... what the hell? How is Honda ranked over Ryu when Honda can only dream of beating a good Ryu player? I might be able to conceive of Balrog being that good, but I'm not seeing it.

[Kamui]

Random. How is Kyo not top 3? Good, reliable infinite. Ambiguous cross up that leads to 95% damage micscreen and 100% in the corner. 2nd best dodge attack in the game, which again leads to 95-100% damage. Decent fireball, decent normals, good anti air.

Originally posted by Burning

King of Fighters 95 :
* Ikari team
* Iori

With the courtesy of Gamest ;p and V-Ryu

[jubei yamada]

KOF 94 :
- team Brasil

KOF 95 :
- Iori
- Kyo
- Kensou
- Heidern

KOF 96 :
- Iori
- Chin
- Clark
- Mature
- Choi
- Leona

KOF 97 :
- Benimaru
- Iori
- Terry
- Blue mary

KOF 98 :
- Goro
- Chris (regular)
- Iori
- Kyo

[Saotome Kaneda]

Originally posted by jubei yamada

KOF 98 :
- Goro
- Chris (regular)
- Iori
- Kyo


WTF is with you people not listing Alt Ryo? He wins for FREE.

[master akuma]

Originally posted by Saotome Kaneda



WTF is with you people not listing Alt Ryo? He wins for FREE.

That´s right, hold start version of Ryo is a beast on 98...

[4neqs]

And the KOF '97 tiers are made w/o consideration for the hidden Orochi characters aren't they =p Anyway I'd say Mary/Benimaru/Terry is tops in that

Pretty sure that Kyo isn't top in '96... it's more like Iori/Clark/Chin, and possibly Mature.

And yes, Alt./EX Ryo is a fucken monster :wasted: Sorry Vampire Savior, though the characters you listed are good, your KoF 98 tiering is way off.

[Famicom]

Today I scored a loose copy of Dragon Ball Z: Hyper Dimension for Super Famicom from the kids of a family that just moved from Hawaii, they had no SNES to play it on.

If anyone plays this game on like ZSNES ZBattle or something, what are the tiers for that game?

[Richard]

King of Fighters 94
Did anybody play this at the time? In Europe everybody thought the whole series was complete shit, and never considered it as anything other than a novelty alternative to SF.

So when did Americans start liking/playing this?

[Vampire Savior]

WHo cares about DBZ tiers :rolleyes: lol but 95 Ryo in 98 nah Takuma can kil him off in the Kyokugen wars in that game

[master akuma]

King of Fighters 94

Originally posted by Richard

Did anybody play this at the time? In Europe everybody thought the whole series was complete shit, and never considered it as anything other than a novelty alternative to SF.

So when did Americans start liking/playing this?


That game is gold.

[Ubersaurus]

Originally posted by Vampire Savior
WHo cares about DBZ tiers :rolleyes: lol but 95 Ryo in 98 nah Takuma can kil him off in the Kyokugen wars in that game

air fireball > everything takuma has

[Burning]

Originally posted by Dasrik
And those Turbo rankings... what the hell? How is Honda ranked over Ryu when Honda can only dream of beating a good Ryu player? I might be able to conceive of Balrog being that good, but I'm not seeing it.

For SF stuff, I've just copy a japanese tiers/matchups list that someone have post few months ago.
IMHO, If Honda trap you in the corner with the 1000 hand attack, you're just dead.

To Kamui, I haven't wrote a 3rd name for the 95 tier list so put anyone you want. (^__^)

[epsilon_]

You could just dp him. The reason why honda is scary is because of ochio ticks. The estabished top ST tiers are Sim, Balrog, and O.Sagat.

[Virtua_Leon]

Ahh i cant belive i forgot about heidern in 95, yeah he was skanky
Not many people say eiji though? his unblockable running slice after fireball is nasty

I see my 96 predictions are correct (clark Chin Iori Choi) kyo is good in 96 not top though one character who i think is great is krauser.
The only character that can really OWN him is choi geese and chin
Also i think ralf was top tier imo his standing C was TOO good and 96 had a very very odd dazing system.

As for 97

Mary
Yamazaki
Terry
iori
Robert
benimaru
kyo

I did not include orochi chracters these are just my opinion

Anyone care to list a karnovs revenge tier list?

[Richard]

Originally posted by Dasrik
How is Honda ranked over Ryu when Honda can only dream of beating a good Ryu player?
I get your point, but this is not the right way to argue it.

For a start, how do we know the Honda player is the same skill as the Ryu player? In truth, there is no way to tell if the characters are being used to the same level. It's absolutely impossible to claim two players have equal skill with different characters. And thus this negates pretty much all tier discussions, since they assume that players are equal skill (but I could always claim without possibility of disagreement that the Honda player isn't as good as the Ryu player). For all we know, the might be a great new Honda technique that we haven't discovered yet, but the current tiers are based on an assumption which is undefined.

[JALbert]

Tiers exist. You can't deny it.

[Richard]

Accepted (to some extent). But you can't really define or relate that stuff by talking about human skill, or "a good Guile player" or whatever.

[Lantis]

Originally posted by Vampire Savior

King of Fighters 98
Takuma Sakazaki
RB Terry Bogard
Chris
Mature
Clark
Shingo Yabuki
Iori Yagami
Blue Mary
Ryuji Yamazaki

:wtf: This is just WRONG! Mature top tier? Solid mid tier at best, but nowhere NEAR top tier, IMO. And where are all the freakin' grapplers (only Clark and Mary)? First of all, you pretty much forgot the "game breaker" Goro Daimon, along with O.Yashiro and Ralf, who are also beasts. Kyo is also very dangerous, and Kensou plays mad zoning as much as the next EX Ryo.

As for KOF '99:

- Jhun
- Kensou
- K'
- Kyo

[Vampire Savior]

I'll admit I forgot the grapplers but Mature is pretty solid in that game & good, offensive, poking, fast she kinda sucks in 02 while I think O Yashiro sucks plus my list is not ordered but thanks for updatin me on tha grapplers but I really think Clark & Mary break the mold there in that game while Kyo is ok and alotta scrubs from capcom could really play Saisyu

[4neqs]

Originally posted by Vampire Savior
I'll admit I forgot the grapplers but Mature is pretty solid in that game & good, offensive, poking, fast she kinda sucks in 02 while I think O Yashiro sucks plus my list is not ordered but thanks for updatin me on tha grapplers but I really think Clark & Mary break the mold there in that game while Kyo is ok and alotta scrubs from capcom could really play Saisyu

There's not much difference between 98 and 02 mature I think. Still pretty decent to me. Mind pointing any out?

[Dasrik]

I beat people who use Ryu a lot when playing Honda in HF.

But this is in no way because I'm good. Crafty, maybe... I can trick people into NOT doing the only two moves Ryu needs to do to beat Honda (fierce fireball and low roundhouse). But I know anyone who wants to beat me can just do that and I have to get lucky.

In HF, Honda is excellent on characters without a fireball, and with the exception of Ryu, still very good on characters with. Reversing a DP on wakeup is way harder in HF than in ST, so slap traps work a lot more on shotos. And grabby into slappy is just as good as ochio, if not BETTER (IMO, it is - mindgames and positioning > superior damage of ochio).

But he doesn't beat Ryu. Nope.

[#GsT|Deserteur]

Originally posted by Famicom
Today I scored a loose copy of Dragon Ball Z: Hyper Dimension for Super Famicom from the kids of a family that just moved from Hawaii, they had no SNES to play it on.

If anyone plays this game on like ZSNES ZBattle or something, what are the tiers for that game?

play me and I will show you the tiers. Add me on AIM or ICQ.

Vegeta, Vegetto and Lil Boo are top tier.

[MuscleDragon]

Originally posted by Richard
Did anybody play this at the time? In Europe everybody thought the whole series was complete shit, and never considered it as anything other than a novelty alternative to SF.
So when did Americans start liking/playing this?
As far as I know, KOF sucked in US:lame: . MVC2 :cool:.

[Virtua_Leon]

Main differances between 2k2 and 98 mature probably her jumping lk in 98 it's so good, in 2k2 it's was slowed down,
Also more importantly they toned down the amazing speed she could charge her super bar from 98, this i personally think makes her suck in 2k2 oh and her dp was slightly improved in 2k2 overall i'd say she is alot weaker in 2k2

[Vampire Savior]

02 Mature is suuuuuullllloooooooow. Making her poking ability, offesnive & combo abilities not so good but she still has the same combos & pokes but not so effective.

[4neqs]

Thanks for the clarification.
And yes, despite the fanboyish nature of MD's comment, it's a shame that KOF didn't take off in the States. Truth be told though, I haven't heard of the Americans dominating the Japanese in fighters not named MvC2.

[Carmen]

^^ Agreed. So, about 96, under Leona, Mature, and Iori, how does it go?

[FatalFuryD]

Wasn't 96 Mature CD like the best CD of any kof ever? I don't know, though.
What I DO know is low tiers.. I'm just not the reliable person for top tiers. Games I played:

L.Tiers:
Power Instinct
Annie

Galaxy Fight
Roomi

SF 2 WW
Blanka. Man, poor guy. just.. man.

Sam Sho 2
Nakoruru. She can fight though, she's just simple, that's all.

[Return of Shiki]

Gamest's Tier List for 96' (from Darklancer's FAQ):

1-Chin : 77 (WTF?)
2-Iori : 70
3-Clark : 48
4-Mature : 47
5-Choi : 44
6-Leona, Daimon : 40
7-Mai, Kyo : 37
8-Kim, Ryo : 35
9-Big, Benimaru, Geese, Chang : 34
10-Krauser, Robert, Kensou : 32
11-Ralf, Higashi : 26
12-Terry : 22
13-Kasumi : 17
14-Atena : 16
15-Andy : 15
16-King : 14
17-Yuri : 12
18-Vice : 8

[Lantis]

Wow...who would have thunk it? Clark over Mature? :wtf: I guess the dodge REALLY makes you THAT good (also judging by Daimon's high ranking).

I kinda had a hunch that Vice was dead last.... Man, she seriously DOES suck in that game. Pretty amazing how she improved by KOF '98 (ala Chris from KOF '97 to '98)

[Virtua_Leon]

there's a couple of things on that list that really baffle me, why on earth is terry above andy kasumi and athena for a start, he has nothing what i feel put him above any of them, why on earth is chang so high and why on earth ralf is SO low how the hell is he eclisped by kensou

Wtf chin!?

you say that like you're suprised?

i'm guessing you dont know how stupid he is in 96? his laydown move in 96 is stupid, first and formost it's done qcb k and not DD k which in my opinion is alot quicker to do, also the up k part was stupid, it comes out to fast in fact instantly you cannot roll behind him when he does it because it lasts for fucking ever, rolls in 96 are shitty enough as it is, making it even harder to get in on him as it is, basically aginest alot of characters you can just spam it over and over and there's fuck all you can really do about it, also another thing was when you got it on a counter hit which i might add was very often it would do twice as much damage because it gave you an extra hit.

Not to mention his good DP with added auto guard and his super which for kof 96 comes out fast also is spamable to at the right distance when your foe is cornered, and there's fuck all you can do to escape unless your mai choi athena

just in case you didn't know

[Return of Shiki]

Actually I play him in most KOFs he's in, and he's part of my regular team in 95 and 96.

I know he's really good in 95 and 96 but I didn't think he was THAT good. I didn't know he was the best character in the game, in the God Tier, above Iori. 96' Iori is one of the most busted characters in the whole series, which says A LOT.

Wow...who would have thunk it? Clark over Mature? :wtf: I guess the dodge REALLY makes you THAT good (also judging by Daimon's high ranking).


I'm not even sure it's because of the dodge. Just good ol' pokes and grabs that do a ton of damage.

[Lantis]

Yeah, but Clark doesn't have a good enough poke to counter Mature's godly CD (not even his normally-good stand D), so I'm assuming he NEEDS the dodge to at least have a way around it.

[Super Homer]

I think that Team Brazil is one of the best teams in KoF '94, but I'm not sure. Team Mexico and Japan are really good as well.

[Dandy J]

chin is fuckin retarded in 96

[woof]

saizo is top in power instinct 2

[Virtua_Leon]

As for clark V mature, clark has far more weapons than mature, grab range grab damage, better in the air, better wake up games blah blah i could go on how retarded he is, but you probably already know, i'm actually surprised somebody thought mature was better than clark, yeah her CD is good, yeah great even but it's ONE THING other than her cd, ask your self what else does she have? especially in relation to what clark has

[Return of Shiki]

In Max Mode, Clark's SAB into Flashing Elbow by ITSELF does about 45%. That's more than most supers.

[Virtua_Leon]

In Max Mode, Clark's SAB into Flashing Elbow by ITSELF does about 45%. That's more than most supers.

that is true, BUT getting to max is a complete different story, because of the stupid taughnt removes like 30% of your pow bar and you can do it over and over never allowing them to pow up in a game.
but yeah clark is an animal it's not like it's hard to land his command grab either, and once they're down it's almost over it's so diffecult to escape his bullshit when down he can do like 4 dfferent things to you on wake up if not more, he's fucking scary

[Gorehound]

Tattoo Assassins
Truck Davis :bgrin:

Who is Sim from SF2WW that is top tier?

[chopperbyrne]

Who is Sim from SF2WW that is top tier?

Is that a serious question????

[Lord BBH]

yeah Clark's damage is downright stupid in '96. SAB already does a lot, and elbow finisher does way more than it did in any KOF after that.

still not buying Chin above Iori though. Yeah the laydown move is pretty stupid (especially if it hits on counter), but characters with ground fireballs can counter it, like... Iori. Anyone else with a long-range move that touches the ground like Leona's low B can usually reach him before he does the up kick. Yeah Chin has other shit that makes him good (DM, low hop/instant overhead jumping C) but Iori is just beyond broken in that game.

[Gorehound]

Is that a serious question????

Yeah, who is Sim?

I don't know any of the 8 characters from WW named Sim?

[Parkreiner]

Yeah, who is Sim?

I don't know any of the 8 characters from WW named Sim?

Dhalsim...

[Virtua_Leon]

yeah Clark's damage is downright stupid in '96. SAB already does a lot, and elbow finisher does way more than it did in any KOF after that.

still not buying Chin above Iori though. Yeah the laydown move is pretty stupid (especially if it hits on counter), but characters with ground fireballs can counter it, like... Iori. Anyone else with a long-range move that touches the ground like Leona's low B can usually reach him before he does the up kick. Yeah Chin has other shit that makes him good (DM, low hop/instant overhead jumping C) but Iori is just beyond broken in that game.

Off the top of my head only 5 characters can hit him with a ground projectile/wave iori, kasumi terry and mr big and geese, iori being the only with with a true projectile, there's no way on gods green earth your going to land mr bigs or terrys wave on chin unless the chin users are stupid, kasumi yeah because it comes out faster and has more range than terrys and bigs wave ( yeah terrys hp power wave has better range than kasumis but it comes out too slow)
Also i'm forgetting chin can counter ioris projectile with U+LK which hops over

As for doing long range low pokes that kind of works but the very first couple of frames when before chin lays down he is more or less invunrable to anything especially lows, i've seen leonas down B and down D pass right through him tons of times, also moves like kims comet cruncher (i cant remember if that's the correct name B,F+k) pass through chin when he's going to lay down, yeah once he's on the ground he is fair game, but then you have to deal with his U+K which you cannot jump into at all you cannot roll into, you can try and low poke but it's so hard beat the u+k , then you got his other stuff, he's a complete bastard imo better than iori, the only thing he is vurable to on the floor is grabs, but you have to get in first, the only 2 characters that from my expierence that really give chin grief is clark and goro, the only reason is they have a dodge

[Gorehound]

Dhalsim...

Sweet, thanks for clearing it up :tup:

I never heard anybody call him Sim at tourneys and stuff.

Yeah, Guile and Dhalsim are top tier on WW.

[Snatcher]

Anyone got any tiers for Martial Masters? (Not that old, but regardless)

And anyone wanna give a reason why Death Adder is tops in Golden Axe: the Duel?

[the supreme]

a1- akuma, guy, sodom, ken

in that order

No.

M.Bison (Dictator)
Akuma
Guy
Rose

In that order

[Dark Geese]

Wow all this SNK discussion in here..who wouldve thought?? :wonder:

Man I guess I got a lot of reading up to do!

-Dark Geese

[V-ismatic]

Uh, since we're going into MK does anyone know the tiers of Tekken 1 and Tekken 2? I could never find any info on these.
I'm not at all sure about Tekken 1.

I'm not 100% on Tekken 2, either, but it went something close to this:

S+: Kazuya, Paul
S: Nina, Heihachi, King
A: Armor King, Yoshimitsu, Michelle, Devil/Angel
B: Jun, Law, Baek, Bruce, Anna, Lei, Wang
C: Jack-2, Lee, Roger/Alex,
D: P. Jack, Kunimitsu
F: Kuma

[NemoDC]

Still waiting for the Tekken 1 tiers. That was the only Tekken that I came close to mastering so I am very curious.

Also, tiers for Fatal Fury 2 and Virtua Fighter 2.

[Lobelia Mk. IV]

Anyone ever bother making a tier list for Evil Zone? God that game was soooooooooooo bad, but I loved it sooooooooooo much.
IIRC top was Ihadurca, Keiya, and Kakurine, but I could be wrong.

[MUSOLINI]

Still waiting for the Tekken 1 tiers. That was the only Tekken that I came close to mastering so I am very curious.

Also, tiers for Fatal Fury 2 and Virtua Fighter 2.

FF2 is pure BS, play FFS instead. no fucking combos, not even 2 in 1's working make this one as bad as the first, almost.

[Ephidel]

T1 went something like King, Nina, and Mishimas top.

Followed by Paul, Michelle, Yosh, Law, and Lee at mid.

Jack at low.

I can't remember VF2's, though I do remember Akira being pretty beastly in that game.

[r3ko]

SF2: Champion Edition

Top - Guile, Bison
Upper Mid - Sagat, Ryu
Mid - Vega, Dhalsim, Ken
lower Mid - Chun, Blanka, Honda
Bottom - Gief, Balrog

Fatal Fury Special

S- Kim, Joe
A- Mai (S on her own stage), Billy, Andy
B- Jubei, Geese
C- Terry, Krauser, Axel
D- Cheng, Duck, Tung
E- Bear, Laurence

Karnov's Revenge

Top - Karnov, Ray
Upper Mid - Zazie,Lee
Mid - Yungmie, Jean, Samchay, Mizoguchi
Lower Mid -Clown, Matlock, Marstorious
Low -Ryoko, Liu Feilin

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

r3ko, I would love to hear some more detailed explanations of Fatal Fury Special. The serious players I've talked to said Duck was hands down the best, and I don't understand the game well enough to know the reasons behind any of this stuff.

As for Fatal Fury 2, Gamest ranked Cheng #1, and I'm tempted to agree. His fireball had practically no recovery, so he could just constantly toss them and eventually lock you down in the corner. It was like having a sonic boom that traveled in an arc and didn't need a charge. Kim & Mai were probably still great in that, too, dunno much beyond that.

re: Tekken 2, Bruce was actually BANNED in Korea way back in the day. True story. Aside from that, yeah Kaz prolly dominates. I heard he was the only character who could sidestep or something like that - any truth?

And A1 was all about Ken/Akuma/Guy/Dictator (US version only, thanks to double fireball bug). Ken could keep you in blockstun with jab roll strings - how is that not ridiculous?

[Return of Shiki]

Duck is used somewhat well in Japan, but I've never seen him ANYWHERE near the top.

The big 4 in FFS in Japan are Kim, Joe, Andy, and Billy.
Mai (especially on her own stage) is up there, and then comes Jubei and Axel.
FFS is more match-up dependant that tier dependant, but everybody can compete in that game (except maybe Bear and Laurence, but I've seen a good Bear in Japanese videos...)

Fatal Fury 2 Tiers:

GOD--Cheng and Kim
Upper--Joe and Mai
The rest don't matter. FF2 is not a good game.

[Virtua_Leon]

r3ko, I would love to hear some more detailed explanations of Fatal Fury Special. The serious players I've talked to said Duck was hands down the best, and I don't understand the game well enough to know the reasons behind any of this stuff.

As for Fatal Fury 2, Gamest ranked Cheng #1, and I'm tempted to agree. His fireball had practically no recovery, so he could just constantly toss them and eventually lock you down in the corner. It was like having a sonic boom that traveled in an arc and didn't need a charge. Kim & Mai were probably still great in that, too, dunno much beyond that.

re: Tekken 2, Bruce was actually BANNED in Korea way back in the day. True story. Aside from that, yeah Kaz prolly dominates. I heard he was the only character who could sidestep or something like that - any truth?

And A1 was all about Ken/Akuma/Guy/Dictator (US version only, thanks to double fireball bug). Ken could keep you in blockstun with jab roll strings - how is that not ridiculous?


Yeah i can belive that about bruce in t2 he was stupid, yeah kazuya was the only character to have a sidestep in t2 as it's known now mist step, F *, i dont remember it being that usefull he was all about WS2 into 90% combos, twin pistons And GFs, all the mishimas were stupid in tekken 1 and 2, actually comes to think of it i think lei might have had a sidestep with his f * 121212 or was that 3 i cannot remember also baek might have been able to use some sort of evasive stuff whilest in flamingo, i remember being able to get people off axis slightly, that was a loooong time ago

As for vf2, i could have sworn it was lau top, this DF P jackknife in full crouch stuff was crazy, lau or akira

Also i always terry was top in ff2 with his stupid unpunishable rising tackle

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Just for the hell of it, here are my thoughts on two of my favorite older games - RB2 and WHP. I will use pluses & minuses in addition to the letter grades, to accurately show the gaps between tiers.


Real Bout 2:

Banned: Alfred

A : Rick, Geese, Kim, Chonshu

A- : Yamazaki, Terry, Hon-Fu, Franco

B+ : Bob, Krauser, Xiangfei

B : Chonrei, Sokaku, Billy, Tung

B- : Mai, Andy, Joe, Laurence, Duck

C+ : Mary, Cheng


Nope, I'm not kidding, they really are that close together. Everyone has a chance - the most recent Japanese tournament was won by a Mary, defeating a Chonshu in the finals!


World Heroes Perfect:

Banned: Neo-Dio, Zeus

S : Hanzou

A+ : Capt.Kidd, J.Carn, Fuuma

A : Jack, Ryofu, Mudman, Dragon, Rasputin, Ryoko, J.Max

B : Muscle Power, Erick, Brocken, Son Gokuu, Janne

C : Shura

You could think of this game as having Accent Core balance - a bunch of very strong characters, and a bunch of good characters with a few bad matchups each. It's also counter-pick-heavy ala ST - you can succeed with a B tier character if you have a quality backup.


Enjoy,
Josh.

[MarkMan]

Tekken 2, Bruce, Lei, and Jun were up there...

[V-ismatic]

yeah kazuya was the only character to have a sidestep in t2 as it's known now mist step, F *, i dont remember it being that usefull
Uh, Mist Step dominated the game. Especially since Tekken 2 characters were totally incapable of tracking off axis. That thing was better than an attack reversal against an incoming attack.

[Sephiroth73003]

Anyone ever bother making a tier list for Evil Zone? God that game was soooooooooooo bad, but I loved it sooooooooooo much.
IIRC top was Ihadurca, Keiya, and Kakurine, but I could be wrong.

I was unaware other people knew this monstrosity existed. Used to play that shit a lot when i was like 11 :rofl:

[r3ko]

r3ko, I would love to hear some more detailed explanations of Fatal Fury Special. The serious players I've talked to said Duck was hands down the best, and I don't understand the game well enough to know the reasons behind any of this stuff.



I got that tierlist for Fatal Fury Special from a japanese site that still regularly play the game in Japan.

Duck is ok, but no where near the best. I played against middliekick, who is by far the best player I've ever played at Fatal Fury Special (online and offline). And he uses Duck quite abit. TBH the only real thing he has going for him is the redizzy off a jab, but he hasn't got much else if he can't get in to land the first jab.

All in all though Fatal Fury Special imo is pretty balanced, its only the top 2 or 3 characters which seem abit too good compared to the rest. Namely Kim, Joe and maybe Mai.