Haohmaru isn't low tier in K.

[Rokiseph]

I personally feel that some people just don't know how to play him. You poke, and you poke somemore. It doesn't matter that he doesn't have a good combo that starts with C.LK. He has his S.MK into Heavy Gougetsuzan for close range punish.

His heavy slash is over rated, yet under rated by people (huh???). If people are baiting you, don't get baited. Sounds simple? Who can punish a blocked Heavy Slash at heavy slash distance? A discussion about how a heavy slash is too slow is useless, it all depends on how well you read your opponent. if you guess he isn't going to roll or RC something, HS. It's not so slow that people can see it coming a mile away. And

We don't have to go to basics here. A lot of characters have good anti air. Haohmaru has an average one. So let's skip that. He doesn't have a good, comboable fireball, so let's skip that. but what he does have, are pokes that should be used over and over again. The way a Haohmaru should poke should put non-psychic people in fear because it is relentless. In K, when you trap someone in the corner, you poke. When you aren't Poking, you are tapping back. With these two combined, you will have occasional JDs in between pokes that lead to more pokes. And you poke and poke and poke. When someone gets too near, you hop back. And Poke. If they turtle, you WALK forward slowly, and you poke some more.

Poke with what? With what was mentioned. S.MP. S.HP. the occasional S.HK. Short jump HS. It's the pressure that counts. It's rushdown without the Rushdown.

Anything comes your way to push you away, JD it. Tell them you're standing rooted at that spot and you ain't movin'.

The key to this all is intelligent poking. You aren't ryu going in for LKLKLKMKFIREBALL. You aren't Geese going in for you Guard crush combos. You aren't Rolento doing KKK MP C.LK C.MK.

You are Haohmaru. He moves for no one. That's why HIS face is on K Groove.
______

Let's talk some matches for haoh on K.

Sakura, a FULL RC A- Sakura has almost nothing on K Haoh. Some of you may beg to differ when the CC comes in, but that's just it, the CC. Other than that, what does Sakura have on Haoh? Both of you will be poking, she has her distance, you have yours. It's now a matter of who is better at zoning. Her S.HK? Her RC Hurricane? Her jump-in? What?

A Bison. What does he have on Haoh? his pokes? What pokes? Your range is longer than his. No Bison is stupid to random jump, no bison is stupid to do a full psycho crusher at any character. So what now?

K-Sagat. ok NOW we have a problem. but again it is a problem of zoning. If the opponent's Sagat Knows where to jump and JD Haoh's single hit moves, then don't be there for him to jump in at? I see people stubbornly trying to do something when they should be hopping BACK. Then they complain 'Haoh Sucks! He couldn't do anything back there!' No Sagat would random fireball a K Haoh, it's just free life.

K Blanka - Another zoning game.

Yes, K Blanka and Sagat have very powerful short Jump attacks, but no one asked you not to block high.

Sagat doing S.HP continuously? You don't know what to do? learnt to find the distance and C.HP his FIST. Your sword arc should hit it clean. it's safer than his DP. It recovers faster if you miss. (Note when i type this I am thinking of Haoh Trapped in a Corner, with Sagat Whiffeing HPs to keep him there)

_____

Sure, people might be thinking, this is a generic strat for EVERYONE. but no. You can't do it with ryu, his range is shorter than Sagat's or Blanka's. You can't do it with Eagle, he has different types of pokes that aren't as fast and are different in use.

What Haohmaru has , in the end is STILL his Heavy Slash. As Underrated or Overrated it is. It IS his tool, and the fact that it's presence is there is what makes the opponent's reaction's to him different. So you play on that.

When people start getting complacent and play footsies with you, you jump back and show them you have that Heavy Slash, continuously make them remember it's there. It's now a game of hitting their body, blocked or not. whatever you have to do to just get into contact with them.

Don't think of it as a game of Guard breaking. It is not a game of damage. It is a Game of TAG. And you just have to keep tagging him. You have to just keep hitting him SOMEHOW. The thing is the Guard bar stops moving once a character get's hit right? Now you have to go to the ends of the earth to just get that guard bar down. Even if you have to jump all the way back and throw a fireball to throw him off only to run forward and Tag him ONCE with a C.LP BLOCKED you've done your job.

When this is natural for you, eventually you'll work it into your Haohmaru play, and somehow the damage just accumulates. Learn to gauge the two types of Punish moves. Who else besides haohmaru can punish someone severely from half a screen away?

And when he makes a Mistake Right In Front Of You, don't Throw him for damage, S.MK into heavy Gougetsuzan. THAT's damage. Not the LKLPLight Gougetsuzan crap.

And JD. JDing is so important. It's his means of staying rooted. He has three basic needs.

Short Jump
Run
Stay Rooted.

Only k groove gives you this.

He doesn't need to roll at all. If you want to escape corner traps, remember you have JD into Pokes.

That's all I have now considering I'm just typing non-stop without stopping to think, so i'd be missing out some stuff like pther match ups etc. Does anyone else have something to say for haoh in K?

[randomsuper]

he's mid tier, and i think his best groove is a, not k.

[kcxj]

Originally posted by randomsuper
he's mid tier, and i think his best groove is a, not k.
I think he's really good in K actually. Remember that Haoh's game is all about guard breaking or dizzying you in the first place. When he's raged in K-groove, that capability gets REALLY jacked up. He loses his dash, but with his 2 frame (!) d.LP, his run becomes just as deadly. Can't low jump when you're in A too.

If you really love turtling, random activation that much however, then by all means go for A-groove. He still has all the same normals and range etc... I still think he's stronger in K or P though.

[Rokiseph]

By Crimson Disaster :

An opponent doesn't need to wait for Haoh to come to them. Forcing someone to come to you is not the same as waiting for someone come to you. Guile forces you to come to him, but he isn't waiting for you to do so, he's keeping you out. That's not letting or waiting for his opponent to come to him, that's forcing his opponent to come to him. Same with Sagat shooting short Tiger Shots at Cammy, or doing s.shorts against anybody.

In Haoh's case, he has nothing to discourage people from attacking him more or less freely, other than random fierces, which get super'd for free if blocked, as noted by Buktooth (something like -18 on block? You get the point) All Haoh has is frustration value- people get pissed and just walk into more jabs/strongs and eventually run into fierces. At least Vega has some offensive options...

Haoh's not unusable, but he's not particularly good, either.
------------------------------

I need to know first, Crimson, what Groove haoh are you talking about, and what is your playing style with him and what groove do you use when you play him?

[CrimsonDisaster]

I'd say K over A by a bit. A Haoh turtles a lot better and has the threat of AA CC, plus a means of doing some actual damage. But yeah, K Haoh breaks guard a lot better and has a better ground game with JD. And K Haoh has a reason to move forward, as opposed to constantly backwards motion...

At point blank, c.short, c.jab XX strong DP sets up a nice crossup with sj.forward. Something to keep in mind, I guess.

As stated on Buk's thread, several characters can super a blocked s.fierce for free. It's still a nice weapon but not something you should expect to hit much.

A Sakura can kick Haoh in the face. Her s.RH outranges everything except Haoh s.fierce. He can s.fierce a bit more freely, though, since no L3 super to punish the fierce on block. Still, she can win the poking game simply because for every s.RH she hits, Haoh needs 2 s.strongs to keep up. RC fireball helps too, and of course, random CC = 40% gone. She doesn't have to work that hard to get into range to make you block a random CC, really.
Can Haoh duck RH hurricane kick? Forgot.
Haoh can discourage dive kicks by fiercing Sakura once or twice, though :evil: But Sakura should really be kicking K Groovers and making them worry about their flashing guard bar and the threat of random activates, not wasting time with dive kicks.

Can't think straight, got classes tomorrow. Will talk more, gotta love the big-haired swordsman. Even if Hibiki is a better character.

Edit:
I play Haoh in K, A, and C, in that order. C Haoh is mostly for battery purposes, plus Alpha Counters to keep people from rushing me down too much.
K Haoh, I mostly poke and stuff, and try to get initiative to run in with jabs or lj.fierces and stuff.
A, turtle like I'm from EC :lol: Mostly poking and moving backwards as necessary to keep the distances managable. His dash and jump are good for getting away from corners, sometimes, so mostly my A Haoh is poke and runaway.

[Rokiseph]

Gosh it's late at your side!
Sweet dreams ok.

------

Yes we do have different styles.

Hmm. I play K Haoh only. And for Characters that have no reliable damaging AAs, I just Jump in and JD on descent. It's really a problem for Sak because she has nothing for Haoh's Jump but an RCed move or C.HP. Usually they won't RC anything because Except her DP RC, the rest have long recovery from the first JDed move. So..they..umm...I dunnoe I can't find a solution for Sakura here actually. When they see me they suddenly try and run and build meter.

And I actually hit with my S.HP a lot lot more than players I see, because I found his correct slashing distance. I'm not playing against scrubby players, it's just that since I play in K more, i get to run in + Heavy Slash at weird moments. I also get to fake it. Since U play in A as well as K, maybe you don't do that too often. At the correct distance, Sagat can't punish it too. And anyway what I mentioned in the thread still holds, only those few characters, with Level 3, at reasonable distance, will hit him for free. And even then only those who can afford to wait on their Meter. The key word is 'Reasonable' as in, if I did it at a range where I should have thrown my Medium Slash instead.

Since you have a different style of playing, hmm, I wonder how you'd do if you try to be more aggresive with him, in K? because There is no way I can do what I do now in A. I don't turtle, I really Zone and JD that Shit down. It's like a Game of tag I mentioned previously.

It's hard to find someone who plays Haoh in K, look at how few people there are in this Haoh thread alone :( So I'm kinda happy you play him in K too. :)

[randomsuper]

to kcxj: in p groove it sounds like he could be nasty but i've never played one.

one reason i like haoh in a over k is because i always feel he has to be defensive. with roll and alpha counter, you can get away from a rush, while in k he tends to get steamrolled. and he builds meter at a decent pace. once that a bar is filled, he becomes a huge threat. his a groove is really damaging and whenever i use it people are shocked at the damage.

and the main reason i don't like him in k is his supers are almost impossible to land. in k, it seems you have to have several options to land a super before time runs out. haoh can't really link anything into super consistently.

btw, when the game first came out, i played a turtle ass c haoh that pissed everyone off. :lol:

[Rokiseph]

Hi MCTek

Funny I don't seem to have a problem doing C.HP on Sagat. Timing is tight maybe? but yes I do JD instead of AA sometimes, so maybe I'm just lucky those times I hit? Hmmm, I think I know why, it depends from where Sagat is jumping at me. I can't remember exactly what it is because it's been worked into gameplay...(it happens to me, I forgot how to say it out, I have to watch myself play first before I can describe it, because it's already based on instinct now :p sorry Gomen Gomen)

It's something like this. If he's jumping in at you from..I think, within your MP range, you can Anti Air him. No Problem. If He's jumping slightly from Further away, I JD him because after he Kicks me, I will JD Down ward anyway upon his landing and react from there. He will be too far away to mess up with any throwing or what nots, so it's ok for my distance still. And he can't jump again because he will be AA'd by C.HP. if he C.HP me and I don't JD it, I will be out of range for him, but within range for him not to jump anymore also.

I could be remembering wrong though, but I play enough so that people don't usually jump in normally at me at a cetain range anymore, because they know they'll get punished.

but oh yes, i remember something I do out of instinct now, If I see him Jumping toward me, sometimes I do a backdash and poke my MP or HS even. I think this is when I don't want to JD and want to add in some Guard Damage instead.

Awww heck, someone tape down my matches!!!!!!!! I can't remember anything!

Oh ok, so my answer to you is, no Sagat cannot do it all day, when at the right range, C.HP is effective against Sagat. When at the 'Wrong' range, You can't C.HP it, but all he can do is Kick you and land slightly further away, at most do a C.MK into Ground Tiger. Which if you decide not to JD, will Put you far enough to AA him if he jumps from that range. Which menas, i no repeat performance unless he walks back just to jump at you again. but when he walks back... I think i would instinctively follow him a bit.

Ok I'm just blabbering now. :D

[kcxj]

I'm not going to take credit for this, because it's my friend Savath who plays Haohmaru as his main character, but P-Haohmaru is the strongest Haohmaru because he has perfect anti-air.

d.MK +3/+3
4/8/11

This move is ridiculous. A four frame d.MK that hits mad meaty and gives frame advantage to boot?

I can't randomly jump in on P-Haohmaru ever because of the following option select he can do:

-(opponent jumps), tap forward, meaty d.MK

If I attacked, I get parried and eat tripguard meaty d.MK, link d.LP xx LEVEL FUCKING 3 SUPER.

If I empty jumped and tried to throw, I still eat meaty d.MK.

If I empty jumped and just blocked, then Haoh just does d.HP on me instead. He can still make me block that meaty d.MK and all the follow-up attacks he can do after with the +8 or whatever he gets too.

Can't empty jump in and DP as you land either. Remember the d.MK is already out by the time you hit the ground. You'll be forced to block or you'll take the hit anyway because of the 2 frame recovery you have from every jump.

P-Haoh is cheap. :mad:

[Rokiseph]

That is SO COOL

It's really fit's Haoh's Character.

'I'm gonna do it, and there's nothing you're going to do to stop me from doing it, and if you try, you'll fail, I'd have done it, and you're dead.'

[randomsuper]

broken ass p groove. :mad:

[CrimsonDisaster]

Wow, low forward was that good? Never used it that much before. Might have to try that out one day.

[jreinert13]

Did anyone mention the incredible lag on Haoh's S.Strong (one of his best pokes)? He misses that, it's free damage and lot's of damage if a super is involved. Hibiki can punish S.Strong from like 3/4 screen away...

Haohmaru has many problems, which will always prevent him from being real good.

Vega, Hibiki, Cammy, Blanka and Sagat own Haohmaru for free.
If I'm in K, I will willingly block 2 or 3 jabs so I can JD the S.Strong, get super then punish with poke XX lvl3. Actually K and P groove just own Haoh.
His supers are almost useless outside of combos. I know he does lot's of damage without them but still not lvl3 damage.
He is way to predictable. So are some top tiers but they are good enough that it doesn't matter sometimes...

[Rokiseph]

Hmmm, it's unfortunate that the people in your area play him so predictably...

[The Gadgy]

Originally posted by Rokiseph
Hmmm, it's unfortunate that the people in your area play him so predictably...

Word.

[Rokiseph]

Another Word.

what?

[The Gadgy]

Originally posted by Rokiseph
Another Word.

what?

:lol: I'm sayin' I agree with you!

[Rokiseph]

OH!

HAHahAHahahha

And a good haohmaru day to all of you :D

[jreinert13]

Originally posted by Rokiseph
Hmmm, it's unfortunate that the people in your area play him so predictably...

Sorry did I miss something? When did I say people in my area play him predictably? I said he's a predictable character. In order to effectively use him effectively, you have to use his limited resources i.e. poking/zoning. That's it. Yea there are other characters which can be summed up similarly, but they are much better at it. Actually pretty much every character that plays the same type of game as Haohmaru, is better.

[Rokiseph]

Frankly, i'm not sure if you missed anything.

The fact remains that I do not know what kind of Haohmaru you have fought against, and you don't know the kind of Haohmaru I have seen.

But one thing is for sure, Haohmaru may have limited resources to some, but in K groove, to some others, it's all he needs to confuse people. I have been in games where he plays mixups and rushdowns, and it's over before it reaches the 900 timer. Simply because of Rushdown + JD + his unique set of pokes.

I need to know then, before we can further this discussion, what is the best haohmaru you have seen so far. What did he do, what did he not do, perhaps from there we can all learn something.

If he did his poking/zoning all day, did he bother to jump back and fireball to start his pressure? Or jump back and fake it? Etc.

The tools are all there.

[7witch]

Have you guys notice that when you put a low to close mid tier charachter in K they dramatically change and become a mid tier charachter.



hmmmmm






K-Groove=:lame

[Rokiseph]

Hi 7witch :D

I was just like you when I first joined this Forum...

no, wait, i wasn't...

have fun at this Forum ok 7witch :D I Foresee a lot of people welcoming you soon.

And BTW

Good luck.

[Buktooth]

I was intrigued by this anti-air low forward, low jab super thing. However, something didn't seem right in my head: the super shouldn't reach far enough to connect after a low forward, then low jab. Sure enough, after some testing it only connects on the fattest characters in the game: Blanka, Rolento, Honda, Gief and Raiden. Still a neat and innovative idea though.

To keep the discussion going, here's some more anti-Haohmaru points that I didn't list:

-His cross up completely whiffs against skinny characters. Kyo, Vega, Cammy, Sakura, Kim, Rock, Athena and Mai (not a comprehensive list) all cannot be crossed up normally.

-I stand by my earlier statement of his fireball being the worst fireball in the history of fighting games. Even WITH the fake. There is such tremendous recovery time on the fireball (almost a full second after the release) that the opponent can wait to see the tornado leave Haohmaru's sword, THEN jump or roll and still have plenty of time to combo Haoh. Even if Haohmaru does successfully fakes the opponent into jumping, he gets 900 from hitting his low fierce. Even if he somehow fakes the opponent three times, he only gets 2700 dmg total. If Haohmaru decides to throw a fireball once and the opponent jumps over on reaction, Haohmaru is taking at least 3000 something. It's simply not worth it.

And what purpose does Haoh's fireball serve anyway? The general purpose of a fireball is as a midrange poke, and it's definitely way too slow to do that. A secondary purpose is as a long ranged zoning move, so you can get it out on the screen and force the opponent to deal with, and counter whatever they try to do. Haoh's fireball has way too much recovery time to do that. Even if you throw a jab fireball, by the time Haoh recovers, the fireball is 95% across the screen already. Running after it, or even countering attempts to avoid it pretty much isn't an option. Then there's fireballs as a meaty move. This doesn't work for the same reasons as stated above.

Ok. Debate over that and I'll give you more. Lots more. :D

[Rokiseph]

hi Buktooth.

Again, Everyone here knows that he has the worst fireball in the game. It's not up for dispute or anything. However what most people are mentioning (and what you have just mentioned) , is how bad it is, when used as a 'conventional' method. Or rather, a fireball as a general purpose. So it really isn't up for discussion.

Actually, we can discuss all day about what his Pros and Cons are, but one thing isn't going to change, His Cons are for moves that we can do without most of the time. So his fireball is slow to come out, when I play, i use the fireball only 3-4 times per match. And it's weird that although you mention the fireball is 95% across the screen, when I'm done doing it, I can somehow manage to run in and start zoning again. No one has ever punished me doing it because they're too far. And if they jumped toward me, I have effectively made them move out of their 'Turtle' mode. There are absolutely no cons the way I have done it, that can't be bad.

And his cross ups. It is fortunate perhaps that I don't seem to need to do this too often to most (If not all) characters that I can outpoke, or out jump HP.

It is so difficult to discuss how a Character can be good based on This alone, because not everyone here has played him seriously in K. Someone who plays him in A will say something. Someone who plays him in P will say something. The situation suddenly changes because of the addition of JD, Run in, Parry etc.

So far everything I have said, I have effectively utilized in the arcade. It's a matter of timing and opportunity, and a matter of K groove.

But of course, what you say still stands. His fireball is the laggiest in the game. And he can't cross some people up. But these don't make what he has weaker the way I play him.

Hmmm, ok I'll ask you the same thing I asked Jreinert13, what's the strongest haoh you've seen so far, and how did he play to win?

[The Gadgy]

You use it 3-4 times a match? Man, I never use it. It really does suck, but we all know that. I have accidently done it in an up-close combo before, even though it was blocked. I forgot who he used, but he was not a good player & he tried retaliating with a RH sweep. Since Haoh steps back a ton after the fireball of course the sweep wiffed & I was able to land a s.HP.

[Rokiseph]

Hey Cool that happened to me once too!!!!

But I have to rephrase, it's not really 3-4 times a match..

umm, which is a match which is a round?

Ok, It's 3-4 times an entire game more like it.

[CrimsonDisaster]

There's not really a way to note any merits for Haoh's fireball in this game, except maybe that it can set up CCs in the corner...
You can't start pressure with his fireball. It's a liability more than anything else.
Haoh's only reliable way to start pressure is to corner someone. He can also go for knockdowns, but his c.RH is pretty laggy (okay, conceivably you can use it at max range, but that can probably be blocked on reaction) and again, no counter-hit combos of note, so people are free to keep Haoh from throwing them by mashing jabs or something, or at the very least trying to tech.

Can you do without s.strong? It's not the easiest thing to punish on whiff but it's not that hard. "Just don't get baited" is theory fighter. Everyone gets baited once in a while.
Doing without the crossup limits Haohmaru to a linear style that will get raped the second he messes up.

The best Haoh I've ever seen? Eddie Lee had a pretty decent A Haoh. He didn't shoot any fireballs that I remember...

[The Gadgy]

I use his c sp a bit more than s sp. I use him in C, but I do think he's best in K or P.

[Rokiseph]

Words used in theory fighter

'Baited'
A word which i didn't start using really. It's people who are always saying haoh is easily baited.

Whether you believe me or not, I'm going to say this. nobody i play baits a S.HP from me, or even tries to, because it's not something that I predictably throw out. It's also something no one can bait from me because I don't throw it out 'on reaction to a move'. I throw it out 'on reaction to a block or tip graze'. I mean seriously, what would you do to bait a S.HP from a K Haoh?

Again, if i were to explain it, it's also theory fighter.

In my previous Thread to Buktooth, i actually removed a sentence that stated

'For all the people I've seen say Haoh has difficulty so far, I've realised something in common, they;re thinking of him in A Groove.'

Ok at least now you've told me the best Haoh you've seen is in A Groove.

Now, A Groove. No Short Jump. No Run. No JD.

Haoh without a run severely limits his poking game.
Haoh without a short jump severely limits his rushdown.
Haoh without a JD makes him easily pushed away.

His CC does nice damage yes. but again i state, i've heard of so many people saying he should turtle. I'm starting to wonder if that's why people don't see his other capabilities.

As for fireballs, notice even gadgy is surprised I threw at least 3-4 fireballs per game. This should tell you that us K groove Haoh users don't use Fireballs as part of our Basic tactics. I only do it to make 'runaways' react. And it's not what I have to do. it's something i just like to do.

Seriously guys, the fireball discussion should be over. We don't really use it. If anything, I only mentioned my use for it, for the benefit of other Haoh users who may want to work it into their overall gameplay by inserting something random to break the match pace.

[The Gadgy]

I'm surprised no one mentions his jumping sp. I find this works really well for aa on many characters(not all, sucks against characters like Nak & Bison) & is a good alternative to his c fp.

"Haoh without a run severely limits his poking game.
Haoh without a short jump severely limits his rushdown.
Haoh without a JD makes him easily pushed away."

Word. :D He's harder to play in C since he doesn't have those, but I hold my own with him. It's nice to have roll & counter to get out of sticky situations. Also I love using his dash since it's one of the best in the game.

[Rokiseph]

Hey you're right about the Jump back MP, i should learn to work that in more somehow huh?

Hey gadgy it's nice U play him in C, I suppose C and A actually have their own mind games huh? What with the Dash and all.

Teach me man...

I've tried him in A and where I can't run, i walk.lol.

[The Gadgy]

Keep in mind I play on & offline on Xbox so there are no rcs in my realm of play.

I use his fk crossup as much as possible, then land into c. sk x3 into c jp. That's if you don't combo to super or don't have it, etc. Say those 4 hits are blocked. Afterwards I'll either dash forward & kick throw, try for another fk crossup, c sp, or dash back & s fp if they do something like a dp(I see people dp a lot after those 4 blocked hits trying to hit the s sp or my dash throw). Once they get used to that, then inside I'll start with the tick throws or jump straight up at certain ranges, or make short pauses between hits to throw off their timing or to bait moves. Jumping straight up is really good with Haoh. If they miss something you can fp, c fp, to super or if they do get a dp I can air block. But his dash to throw along with his other pokes really helps my zoning with him. After a kick throw I like to sit there next to 'em & do something cause many people are surprised at how fast their character stands up. So I kick throw 'em again when they get up, jump straight up again, or the 4 jab hits again, etc.

People act like comboing into super is the only time to use a super. I like using it at other times too like in between someone's poke pattern or against a Calipower style rushdown. Some might say it's a random super. Whatever, it's calculated. But I do usually keep my super for my next character after Haoh unless I see a real good opportunity. Besides it's nice doing a little extra damage with regular moves while I have full bar.

So that's some stuff. There are variants depending on opponents style, characters, groove, & overall abilities.

And another thing, I think Haoh is good against Sak. She can't jump on him cause his c fp hits her regular jump attacks, daigonal jump hit, & both air & ground spin kicks. Plus he outranges her with pokes. If your Haoh's s sp is getting poked by Sak's s rk, you're not zoning very well.

Also does anyone disagree that Nak is his worst matchup?

[Master Chibi]

Wow, I'm so immensley glad that there are other Hoahmaru users out there, and that further more they play in K-Groove.

I've been playing the big lug for ages in K-Groove, he's by far my best and most favorable character to use. Landing a s.HP on anyone is such an immensley gratifying feeling.

Though, as much I love playing him, I do say he has faults.

1. If you're playing against a real good K groover, well Hoahmaru's patience needs to be quadrupled. I started playing him because I loved the way my friend played him back in 2002. Back then though, I used N groove. At the time I rolled too much, so I switched to K groove and that was that.

Once I did, my friend found that using Hoahmaru against me was an extremely ugly case to deal with. Yes he's got some good pokes to worth, but they really are slow. And no, my friend doesn't play predictably either, but Hoahmaru just doesn't have all that vairety to him anyway. If he can't touch my guard meter because I keep jd'ing, well then it's going to be a long match.

2. Fast, skinny, annoying people. Basically Nakaruru, Mai, Vega, Cammy.

Nakaruru can run damn laps around the guy, so it's very hard for him to keep up the pace or control something that won't necessarily stay grounded.

Mai is the middle ground of Ruru and Vega. Not exactly as nimble as Ruru, and not as fast as Vega. Just enough of either to give Hoahmaru a problem.

Vega is Vega. He's got the range and the speed to give Hoahmaru plenty of grief. Small empty jumping into throw is murder.

Cammy's on the list simply because she's a stupid, annoying bitch who gives anyone problems.

I still love playing with the guy.

Also his qcf+p x2 (lvl 3) super has some crazy stun to it. You can knick someone with the tip of it at the start, and it'll likely have them stuck there in stun until the super reaches them a second later.

His 63214+6 +P super has some great invincibility to it too. If anyone does a meat fireball super to you, throw this out for wake up, almost guaranteed instant death.

So yeah, he's plenty fun to play in my eyes, and frankly I think he wipes the floor with sorry Blanka. Really. One jd'ed ball or one 'jd'ed pscyho crusher = s.FP goodness.

A neat little trick I have is to small jump directly above a character I've just knocked as they come up and hit them with a j.HP. Works alot more often then you imagine it would, many don't see it coming.

:D

[Rokiseph]

Are you sure you're not me in disguise???

no wait...
Am i sure I'm not me in your guise...

LOL

DANG That last move of yours is my FAVOURITE haoh move.

Especially when I play on the speed 5 machine. And then people start calling me cheap. Then I feel bad lol. Well, not really.

Cos after that I play on the speed 4 machine and do everything too fast.

Haaaahahahahahaha

And yes Gadgy Nak irritates me, as does Vega.

Mai and Cammy, hmmm not as much as the above annoyings.

[Master Chibi]

Yeah it was quite the surprise to find out someone plays Haohmaru almost the same way I do with the same groove I do.

Though to be truthful (as of late) I really don't move much with him, I let them come to me. Seriously. If the guy doesn't come to me I just stand there, letting the idle animation kick with that damn windy breeze he seems to carry with him (that noone else in the game has, may I add).

Haha. I'm loving his jab alot too. I actually use it as anti air for far away jump ins, and to annoy someone who decides to roll in empy on me.

Honestly I've only played three other Hoahmaru's in the two years or so I've played the game. Two at my local arcade (in NYC) and my friend (who I play weekly). I've seen plenty other Hoahmaru's, especially the random smacker at CTF, but they sucked a fat one.

I used to put him at the end of my team with Ratio 2 attached, but I find that he doesn't really need it, so I put him first, Mai trailing second, Cammy last.

All decked in red, though sometimes I'll go with the yellow tan colors Mai and Haohmaru seem to somehow match very nicely with.

:D

[randomsuper]

ok. been playing him as of late just for kicks. i think he is beastly in n groove. also, i got the turtle haoh mindest off and started rushing and zoning. conclusion, haoh is better than most people give him credit for. he has great match ups against characters like kyo, (scrubby) guile, blanka, and yama. you still have to be extremely careful with the fierce slash though. if you miss you're in deep trouble. and air battles with haoh are a no no. he rarely loses.

btw, i think he counters rolento hard. my friend plays rolento and he can beat my sagat if i get crazy. with haoh, i don't have to do much. if i turtle down, i rape. if he tries to run away, i'll either stomp him out of the air or land a fierce slash.

also, the main reason i like him in n is he becomes a great fighter who rarely needs meter, so my next character comes in with at least 2 bar. i guess you guys were right about haoh. i still feel he's mid tier, but he's definately gone up in the ranks as far as im concerned.

[DragonPunchPimP]

I tried him on K he's pretty good but i mostly roll with him and throw alot due to the fact that almost of his moves suck ass but thats my opinion i think he's decent in C and N though

[Ken34]

I think hohmaru is one of the best characters in the game, even though is real slow, he makes up for it in power and reach.
he is the most effective character to use for facing shin gouki and god rugal.
if you pick him with the k groove, his supers are DEADLY!!
they take down alot of damage, he is a great character, his only downfall is speed and recovery from his moves.

[The Gadgy]

Originally posted by Ken34
I think hohmaru is one of the best characters in the game, even though is real slow, he makes up for it in power and reach.


With or wihtout rc gameplay, he is not 1 of the best in the gamem sorry.

Originally posted by Ken34
he is the most effective character to use for facing shin gouki and god rugal.

:confused: Is this your logic to why he's 1 of the best characters? Who cares about those 2 characters anyway?

[Rel_jin]

I like haoh alot, and while i want to say he is one of the best...saddly he is'nt. But in the end i guess its all up to the skill of the player, cause i bust many c,k and p sagats cammys and may others ( blanka for some reason alwyas gets to me.......)

I gots me a odd way of playing with haoh anyway, i have been downing people with my rush jd then crouching kick poke, poke quater circle back weak jab. When im trying to turtle, i kinda just sit there , if they throw a fire ball.....jd. If they jump in...i crouching firce em and have it then try and rush me done , for the most part i can jd the frist attack but when im feeling iffy about it i toss out a poke or two to keep em at bay....my style isn't the best out there but it works.
For the most part i rush in and jd the attack the toss out on me, and if for some reason they let me get up close on em i slam em (is it me or dose his grab just look real painful , i mean both of em just make happy your not the one getting hit like that...)

in anycase that how i play haoh and why i think he is a great character...just not the best

[Ken34]

Originally posted by Rel_jin
I like haoh alot, and while i want to say he is one of the best...saddly he is'nt. But in the end i guess its all up to the skill of the player,

my point exactly....

[Rel_jin]

The skill of a player is always a must have but haoh is still a good character, cause of the poke and how quick it comes out ...that and the air Hp.....for some reason it just about never fails for me.
To tell the truth to me the only con haoh has is that he is a bit on the slow side but if played right he could easily take out any character.
(note im talking about k haoh)
To me a well played haoh can take done any character in the game with no prob.....sagats punch is easily seen (at least for me...most likely cause when i frist started playing all i saw was sagats fist in my face.) and must multi hit moves can be jd with easily after you see it a few times and figure out the speed of the attack....you know when i think about it i kinda think k hoah is one of the best characters.......but it still dose end up being who has the most skill cause i have seen a p kyo , egale and cammy get mashed in by todo ryu and ryo ....and todo was doing most of the smashing

[Jester Mako]

In response to the question "Who can punish a blocked Heavy Slash at heavy slash distance?"
These guys.

Akuma
Balrog
Bison
Blanka
Cammy
Chang
Chun-li
Dhalsim
Evil Ryu
Hibiki
Iori
Kyo
Morrigan
Rock
Sagat
Shin Akuma
Terry
Vice
Wild Iori
Yun

Characters that deserve special mention-
Blanka- Blanka can use his cr.LP to hit Haoh as he steps forward.
Cammy- Cammy can stuff the heavy slash with her spin drive smasher super. She's also fast enough to hit you with just about any basic move as you step forward.
Chun-li- Chunny's supers stop this move cold. Both of them can be done easily on reaction to stuff the heavy slash cleanly.
Geese- Geese can actually counter throw Haoh's heavy slash.
Ken- Ken can actually LP shoryuken Haohmaru straight through his sword. :wtf:
Sakura- I haven't tried, but I'm pretty sure A-Groove Sakura can shoshosho you after blocking the heavy slash. I'm not completely sure, though.
Vega- Backflip lets Vega easily counter the heavy slash.
Vice- Vice can hit Haoh with a sleeve as he steps forward. She can also use her QCF, QCF+P super to avoid the move entirely.

Also, if the heavy slash is done anywhere but at maximum range, the number of characters on the list increases. Also, this list was compiled without using things like parrying, just defense, and roll canceling, which generally screws up everyone anyways.

Other things to keep in mind: although these are the only characters that can directly smack Haohmaru after a max range blocked heavy slash, any character can use the oppurtunity to gain ground on you. Also, it tends to reset your pressure; the opponent moves in on you and can set themselves up for their ideal range (except for some of the really close range characters).

[FullMetalRoss]

Actually Bison deserves special mention too cause he can block it and then scissor kick haomaru and if in a-groove activate. And that means your gonna get painted.

[WPNX]

so basically anyone can panish haomaru??

[Master Chibi]

If you're a moron, yeah.

[MrSNK]

I use K and N for haoh and I find his RC fake fireball baits people into eating a hard slash. Everyone talked about his pokes but once he gets you dizzy in K- and your character isnt like Geese with the stun bonus, your eating a Flame of the you just like 75% health super. I use haoh alot I can see why he pisses people off.

[HitotsunoTachi]

level 4, K groove. murder people with the tactics and strategies found in a Book of Five Rings. now Haohmaru is a GOD tier, and people around the world will fear him for the unstoppable, murderous force that he is.

[Rokiseph]

Gosh, I've been punishing people with S.HK -> Gougetsuzan and I never mentioned it.

OK, now I've mentioned it.

[Jackenstein373]

Haomaru is one of the best pokers in the game...his slash in my opinion is hard as crap tp parry...and it's got good range. If his fireball were faster...he would be a lot better...but use the fireball sparingly, VERY sparingly. One of my favorite pokes is C.MP, and if they block low, do QCB+LP after the C.MP, and it will probably hit them with the overhead attack (unless they're REALLY fast at reacting and do a LVL 3 super or DP). MP overall I think is Haomaru's best poking tool...I don't use S.HP too often unless it's a good chance that I will hit...NEVER use it just to whiff...whiffing is better with LP or MP (crouching or standing...mix it up to keep ur opponent guessing). His fake fireball is cool too, usually makes your opponent jump in for a free DP.

A-Haomaru is awesome because his CC is pretty easy (Hold forward and mash on HP...does anybody know any other CC's?)

K-Haomaru is awesome too because of the raw power it gives him...and it makes jumping in with him A LOT safer

I like his air game...his J.MP and J.HP seem to do pretty good

[Master Chibi]

I use j.LP, j.MP, and j.MK.

j.LP for hitting them as soon as I get off the ground, and either of the mediums to simply knock them away (both his mediums have great priority, in the air or on the ground).

As for his CC, I do s.FP x 9, s.MK x 12, super.

:D

[Ryu & Ken]

The best Haoh I've ever seen? Eddie Lee had a pretty decent A Haoh. He didn't shoot any fireballs that I remember...

Isn't he that dude who also has a sick Zangief

[Hellion]

His kickthrow doesn't affect the timer on opponent's stun, so as long as you are able to tag with d.LP (or whatever) you have good chance at dizzying em.

Now Haoh's got the guard bar and stun working in his favor.

I like using his s.HP when their Guard meter is say... about a 3rd or 4th left? Depends on groove. After a few d.LK x 3, d.LP, dash kickthrow, meaty d.LP's... etc... You can always sneak in a d.LK x 3, d.LP, then s.HP when you see their Guard meter's around that point. If they're conditioned to Haoh's dash by then they'll probably try to mash him out of it or some such. s.HP will deliver a nasty counter-hit.
If not, then you guard crush and nothing happens. Stun will stay there though:badboy:

[Hellion]

Cammy's on the list simply because she's a stupid, annoying bitch who gives anyone problems.


That's too funny.

Hey I dunno how vulnerable Haoh's pokes are to DP's, whether or not there's a bit of invincibility on the swords or whatever, but after a punch throw you could land a meaty fireball and be somewhat safe against anything short of a reversal lvl 3 or RC's like the Godpress. Blanka Balls should be ok though, for example, only because the damn fireball is so slow, but the trade in damage isn't worth it in that case. Perhaps against S-groove?:wasted:

[Rokiseph]

Not really much invincibility, you can DP his S.LP or S.MP. But you can't DP his S.HP.

[Ken34]

I use j.LP, j.MP, and j.MK.

j.LP for hitting them as soon as I get off the ground, and either of the mediums to simply knock them away (both his mediums have great priority, in the air or on the ground).

As for his CC, I do s.FP x 9, s.MK x 12, super.

:D

yeah, I have pissed many people off at my college, I just poke and jump punch all day, lol.

[Anime12478]

I've only used the N groove just because of the things that I like in it. I guess I can see the N groove limiting the things you can do with him, but if there are any other N players out there that would like to prove me wrong, then feel free to do so.

I'm only a beginner, but I guess posting my tactics could discover some holes in my strategy.

I like using his pokes when in close range and using the FP or FK to get in some great damage.

As far as using the fireball, I try to use it sparingly but I often accidentally use it sometimes :(. But I always go for using it either as a combo or as a nice wakeup call to someone who is downed.

For antiair, I like the FP and uppercut move to get them down since it has it's good properties.

I know that all of this stuff is obvious, but I would at least like to give tips to those that are using him for the first time. As for Haoh being a bad character to use, that just makes him a good character to use. Since it's a general consensus that people don't like him, then they will be surprised to see someone that is good with him. Besides, I do Kendo and I am required to use a Japanese swordsman.

[Rokiseph]

Men!
Tsuki!
And S.MK for AA too!

[mukai]

wat are his good matches and bad ones?

[Rokiseph]

Whoa
Ok, assuming we're sticking to K haoh
Lets go By Alphabetical, according to If it is a Bad Match or not...ready?
I'm also not going too in depth because it's just too deep for all cahracters in all grooves, SO I'll generalise a bit. You can disagree, but then again, we have to talk about the players skills, so...oh well...

Akuma - Neutral.
They have no major advantage toward each other. Akuma may have fireballs and a nice close range combat. But after that, Haoh gets to get away.

Athena - Neutral (Her C.HP isn't that effective against his J.HP)
Her tricks aren't that scary to K Haoh.

Balrog - Neutral
Balrog has long range punches, but haoh has his Long range pokes too. They don't have an advantage oer each other.

Benimaru - Good
Haoh has a slight edge (pun intended) here because Beni's Jump is too high and long, and his moves are outpoked by Haoh most of the time.

Blanka - Bad
Ok, RC Blanka? Haoh has a bad, bad match. Blanka has too many moves up his sleeve. His slide goes under Haoh's S.MP for one. If he manages to do his crossup then his close range game can really pressure Haoh. Blanka Without RC? Means he has Short Jump. Which also makes it hard for Haoh to choose what to do.

Cammy- Bad, Since Haoh doesn't have a decent instant move, he can't do much against random pokes by way of Psychic...anything. his LP is actually slow and his c.lk is too short ranged. Haoh has to work very hard for this one.

Chang - Good, if you're careful. I'm not saying Chang isn't good, but he IS big, and his jumps aren't so spectacular. SO even with his short jump HP or funny tricky moves, Haoh gets the better of it by poking his way out.

Chun-Li - Frankly, I'm not too sure. I'd say neutral but someone will come along and say no way because Chuns is good at close combat. To which I will reply but yeah, We're K haoh, we tend to confuse stuff by JDing some stuff and not JDing others. But I haven't seen a Chun dominate a K Haoh, so i'd say, I don't know.

Dan - Eeerm...It's a bad match if it's a Ratio 4 Dan in P-Groove who parries every shit his way, and you're Ratio 1 haoh. Ok seriously, Dan will get outpoked.

Dhalsim - Well since it IS K Haoh, then i'd go as far as to say, it should give Haoh a slight edge here. Because we aren't that afraid to try to get in, and we can always anticipate Sim's long range AA attacks from the Jump on, (with JD), so yeah. Haoh for this one.

E.Honda - RC Crazy honda has a Slight edge. You can't really punish a Honda Head butt. You can't really punish anything. Jump and you get smacked by a light Head butt. If the other guy wants to play Zone, you have to work hard.

Eagle - A careful eagle may have the advantage, because his pokes and especially his sweep can affect Haoh's Gameplay. Haoh doesn' really have anything against Eagle in this case.

Geese - Geese can't outpoke Haoh, but he can counter. It's all a guessing game. So it's not really a bad match for Haoh, it's jus that if Geese gets a full combo in, you suffer. But the same applies for everyone, so it's a neutral game to see who has better control.

Guile - Neutral Match. Guila may be able to control the situation because of his Sonic boom traps. But K haoh players can JD the Sonic Boom and then anticipate JDing the next jump, run in move. If it ends up at such a close range, Haoh can usually safely do a S.MP, as that outpokes everything guile has, unless Guile does a Sonic Boom, in which yada yada yada Theory Fighter Crap. In other words, Neutral match.

Hibiki - Sigh. Bad match. You can't really punish her long range poke attempts unless you JD it, but that means guessing game. Which means, she has the upper hand. Your Jump in's can be AA's unless you JD, but again, Guessing game. Actually Hibiki ahs more moves that are scarier during close combat, so Haoh has a slight Disadvantage although he has nice pokes.

Iori - Iori with a Roll? Bad match for haoh because his pokes last a while. iori without a Roll? Good match because Iori doesn't have anything to outpoke Haoh.

Joe - Neutral. If haoh plays a mean zoning game, Joe may have trouble despite his slide. RC Joe? I dunnoe, how good is this K haoh?

Ken - Neutral to Good match.

Kim - Neutral. I'd say k-haoh has a slight advantage, but RC Hangetsu zan screws him up, but that's all.

King - Good match. I'm not dissing King here, but again, Haoh outpokes her.

Kyo - Both playing careful? Haoh -> Good match. If Kyo gets in Close? Kyo -> Good match. outcome? Depends -> So actually neutral.

Kyosuke - Good match. Outpw'kd!

M.Bison - A/C-Bison? With RC? Bad Match. poke all you want, but when the RC Scissors come, be prepared to JD and do minimal punishing. Bison without RC? Also may be bad match because of bison's Jump trajectory, making it hard for Haoh to do anything much agaisnt crossups. Plus Bisons low jump makes trade between the two unfavourable since Haoh trades MP with HK.

Mai - A careful Mai has the Advantage. She's never thre for Haoh to 'outpoke' And she can really jump behind you if she's careful. The close pressure strings REALLY pressure Haoh.

Maki - Seriously dunnoe about this, again theres the running away, but the way Maki moves, if haoh suspects she wants to do any jump move at her, he can S.MK to prevent most of the mid screen off the wall attacks. If maki gets the offensive and haoh is trapped in the corner, maki has the advantage because Haoh doesn't have any instant DP. The best he can do is try to jump and slash his way out, and do a re-range. Thing about Maki is that it's easy for her to jump behind him, so this might be a problem for him.

Morrigan - If Haoh is willing to Zone, Morrigan will have a hard time Closing in. If she traps him in a corner and fails to get at him, he can S.MP to push her away.

Nakoruru - Her Jump Trajectory makes it easy for her to get. Her speed too. Bad match for haoh.

Raiden - Normally a good match for careful haoh.

Rock - not too sure. Rock uses distance as his advantage, so haoh may have a tough match here since Rock's fireball traps him for a while and makes him wary.

Rolento - Hmmmmmmm...........depends on a lot of things. Haoh's Jump HP stops Rolento's usual s.MP AA. but Rolento can keepaway like a bitch. This one is a tough match for both. But if Rolento is patient, Rolento has the upper hand.

Rugal - Rugal DOES have moves that can stop Haoh's momentums. His C.HP sometimes discourages random Haoh pokes. His fireball from far lets him mix up his next move of running over close or jumping over. Hmmmmmmmmm...


To Be Continued...