Guile Strategies and Matchups

[Maj]

Since most strategies and tricks are matchup-dependent, it makes sense to group the two together. Discuss anything useful in actual matches here, from specific tactics, to character-dependent move counters, to overall gameplans. The more specific you get, the better. It would be greatly appreciated if you took the time to test out everything you plan on saying in training mode to make sure that it works and to provide some numbers for stuff like damage and dizzy amount.

Other than that, try not to piss anyone off or start any flame wars.

[Shin Ace]

Anti-air:

s. mp, very fast, very high priority. This uppercut rocks.

c. hp, slow, but good for when you need to crouch a lot(blocked sak HK, sagat turtling). It trades with most jump-ins and delivers great damage(1200 if deep, 700 for tip of the fist). It also has a ridiculous amount of hit frames, so don't worry about throwing this out too early.

RC sonic boom, nuff said.

Flash kick, one of the best anti-air options. Do it deep so that C-groovers can't block it. Don't use it against K or P unless you really know what you're doing. This one needs a charge though, so it's not always an option. BONUS: RC'able and does 1800 damage for the deep rh version. less than 800 if it's air blockable.

Sumersault justice, ok anti-air if you really need the invincibility and ability to hit behind your head. Otherwise, save it for a grounded opponent, this super does more damage than sonic hurricane.

THE ULTIMATE ANTI-AIR(mostly for jump happy P and K): superjump and backbreaker(air throw with kick). 2000 damage. Not to be confused for good anti-air against blanka and vega. For them, use s. mp.

[Buktooth]

flash kick is always air-blockable, even if done as deep as possible.

low fierce can be done VERY deep on certain characters and still win clean. It's kinda weird, and is one of the more frustrating things about fighting Guile. You jump early over a sonic boom for what should be a guaranteed blocked jump in, and Guile just low fierces you really deep at the last second.

More anti-airs:

walk back and low forward
Walk back and throw out a meaty low forward for anti air, then control is back in your hands whether they blocked it or not. This is really important to know, particularly for characters whose jump ins Guile can't stop without RC sonic boom. Especially handy for low jumps also. You can also link a level 3 sonic hurricane afterwards since you give yourself enough time to charge.

super jump roundhouse
This is Guile's anti-air from half-screen to 3/4ths distance away. Throw a jab sonic boom, and if they jump straight over it just super jump roundhouse them on reaction. Will beat pretty much everything AND knock them back onto the sonic boom you just threw. Also works if they were about fullscreen trying to safely jump over a sonic boom.

level 2 kick super
This is one of the best defensive supers in the game. There's almost no risk to throwing it out randomly since it's nearly impossible to counter even if you think you know it's coming. Works well in a pinch as anti-air, since the first hit has a gigantic hitbox that seems to snag anything in Guile's general vicinity. Juggle the rh flashkick after for very decent damage, and control is in Guile's hands.

level 2 flashkick super
This is kinda fun, but I wouldn't recommend it in an important match. Level 2 flashkick super as anti-air, super cancel to a jab sonic boom to juggle, then cross up with super jump short. It's actually really hard to block.

[Yumi Saotome]

What does Guile do against Bison or Vega?

[gig4ls]

Is Bison a problem for Guile? Most Bisons I see tend to turtle and wait for the opening to RC into CC. As long as you keep the pressure up with plenty of RC booms shouldn't that be enough? I don't know this for sure, but I get the impression an RC jab boom will outlast an RC scissor kick.

[gig4ls]

Originally posted by kcxj

Those Bisons suck.


That's what I thought, but when I saw that they were ppl like Choi and Chen I wondered if everyone played like that (and a lot of the d/ls online show them play like that.)

[undeadgeist1942]

bleh bleh and now the hangover :wow:

[kcxj]

I can't anti-air Bison at all. Is this normal? I'm not afraid to use roundhouse flash kick (no air-block for A-groove), but Bison also has that funkiness going where he ends up behind you for no reason when your flash kick should of hit.

I know walk back, d.MK works from far, but any closer and I always get beat clean when I try anything else. I'll take a trade or anything at this point. Any tips? Air throw?

Again, I really hate it when I let Bison in on me for free. Walk up jabs and all that nonsense.

[Shin Ace]

I find that fast characters have the most potential to neutralize Guile. Guile cannot do much against Todo spamming fireballs. Guile has a long roll that gives Todo a free grab. RC sonic boom is not enough since the fireball you eat has upwards of 3 hits.

Cammy's speed and range should allow her to stop Guile's flow of attacks. But then again, no one plays cammy against my guile.

Bison's RC scissor kick will destroy RC sonic boom, since he'll go right through it and hit you on your recovery. Other than that, it's a pretty fair match up, until Bison takes 75% of your life with a CC.

Sakura also eats up guile since she can trade with his best counters and also keeps him locked down when she's close. her fireball can also absorb a sonic boom and also hit. Again, I haven't had much of a chance to play Guile vs Sak.

[Ratio1BeatDown]

I can't anti-air Bison at all. Is this normal?

It depends on what angle he is jumping in from. Most of the time if bison is trying to cross up and is directly over top c.fp will do the trick almost all the time. The problem is when he is jumping right in front of you where you would be normally using s.mp cause his j.rh eats it for free. So the only real option you got directly in front of you is RC boom, or jump straight up medium kick if you see it coming (also good against vega jumping from a distance). So the best way to play it is keep him in the space where you can c.fp punch for the most part because you get the most options. Like where kcxj said he flash kicks and he lands right behind you, you gotta just walk under and back fist him before he lands (unless the cross up is deep on wake up or something). Small jump bison is even more of a bitch! haha and Todo is a horrible match up

[Buktooth]

To clarify, this happens when Bison is jumping in near the tip of his j.rh range. There's a small magic spot where Guile can't walk back far enough to low forward safely, and his s.strong doesn't go far enough to reach Bison either. In this case you generally want to super jump forward and roundhouse right away. It'll win clean 90% of the time, and if Bison had just jumped over a sonic boom it'll knock him right back on top of it. He has to block it and you get to block combo a s.rh, then go from there.

[TVS]

Originally posted by kcxj
What's with d.MP as anti-air?


Ive had the most success using this against characters that tend to beat Guiles more conventional AAs the easiest. For example if bison is going for a jump in hk, he will start it a bit early in order to counter a cr. hp..however crouching and waiting will keep guile out of range long enough so that bison whiffs and falls onto the cr. mp...works well against blanka as well..

[Magneto090]

I've found an unusuall counter to Guile in Athena. Warning: "this may be an extremely long fight".

Properties which allow Athena to fight Guile:

1. Reflector nullifies sonic boom................he sonic booms, your reflect and this sets up for her up close game.

2. She can do a number on gaurd meter, c.lp, c.lp, c.fp is a quick combo which does decent dmg and can gaurd break well.

3. Her teleport allows her to get out of some bad situations, as well as setting up for command throws.

4. If you tiger knee her light pheonix arrow this can be used as punishment, if your feeling lucky you can try the rh version and try your luck against guiles wakeup.

As far as character dynamics, Athena is much faster and more manuverable than Guile......ie Vega. An her ability to take the sonic boom out of the game makes this a tough fight for guile.

[RagingStormX]

you all forgot about c.mp AA

[TVS]

^^I just talked about it like 3 postrs ealier...

Ive had the most success using this against characters that tend to beat Guiles more conventional AAs the easiest. For example if bison is going for a jump in hk, he will start it a bit early in order to counter a cr. hp..however crouching and waiting will keep guile out of range long enough so that bison whiffs and falls onto the cr. mp...works well against blanka as well..

[ChainReaction]

I know Guile suppose to do well against Cammy but I’m having a hard time fighting her. I always get pummel to death when I’m trapped in the corner. Can you guys give me some strat against her? I’m a new C-Guile player so please bare with me.

[m1kekim]

what about c guile vs A RC sakura?

[DreaDLorD]

what about c guile vs A RC sakura?
I use Guile occasionally and enough to add some strat to this I guess.

C.MK is the best poke against her since she does not have something to outrange that back. Even though it's good against her, you still have to be wary about her RC hadoken or S.HK while you recover from this. Though it should have quick enough recover to avoid an RC hurricane kick.

S.HP is the best way to keep her on the ground before she jumps. Just like it's the best for everyone else. If she jumps, then zoning to the proper distance and using S.MP or C.HP is key. If she jumps in with an early HK which is one way A Sak gains ground, RC sonic boom would take care of that.

Jumping in on her is probably the worst idea since she can hit most of Guile's air attacks out with S.HP, C.HP, or RC hurricane. Keeping the game on the ground is pretty essential to beating her.

This matchup is determined by who keeps control. If you let Sakura RC her way into pressuring you, it's pretty much over since RC hurricane will beat out RC flash kick/sonic boom. Bait out random RC's and CC activates and punish at will.

Her hurricane trap is still an iffy for me. Not sure how Guile would best counter that.

[defcon]

air throws work awesome as air-to-air; from my experience they seem to outprioritize damn near every aerial attack there is. you can even straight up aa a good amount of jumpins by quick airthrowing on reaction.

[FullMetalRoss]

With Sak can you Sonic Hurricane as well?
I haven't tried much against the trap Depends on if they are RCing or not I guess. I know you can jab her out of the startup at the correct distance if you time it right I am pretty sure if you get hit by the SBK it actually gives you a throw afterward. (not positive and I can't test for sure right now.

[KnownasWolf]

Any tip on Guile vs Vega matchup? I usually try to keep away from this matchup since I get owned pretty bad by vega :( RC's is not an option since I am playing K guile :xeye:

[Jackenstein373]

what is guile's best groove? C? Sometimes I like him to have a run because I think he is a pretty decent rush down character...so I kinda like him in K too

[TVS]

C is the best groove...as far as being a rushdown character, guile isnt really to practical in that category being a charge character and all...just stick to C since u have RC boom as AA, quick meter building potential, ablility to sit on a lvl3 (pretty much the best lvl3 in the game), and since he has an air throw, C grooves air block can really be used to its potential (yes he does have mid-air mixups)...Guile is a zoning character and C groove meets the requirements for his intended play style.

[Nick T.]

you all forgot about c.mp AAIt's an anti-crossup to Sagat's crossup short.

[ROK]

Anyone have any advice on fighting a good Rolento?

[9999]

WTF does Guile say when he does his Charge b, f, b, f + K super?

[kcxj]

It's an anti-crossup to Sagat's crossup short.
Doesn't work.

I recorded Sagat doing point blank s.LP, cross-up j.LK on me.

======

RE: Guile vs Sagat

Guile d.LP, d.LP, d.MP/d.MK string sets up the distance so you can punish a whiffed Sagat d.HP with your Guile d.MK xx super.

I suppose in the corner, you could do d.LP, d.LP, far s.MP xx HP Boom, (let Sagat mash on d.HP), whiff punish with d.MK xx super too... since projectiles don't push you away when you're in the corner.

-----

What's Guile jumping cross-up defense besides rolling away?

For Sagat doing s.LP, j.LK on you, the best I can get is a trade with d.HP. I can do a j.LK myself right after trading with the d.HP and as Sagat is flipping on to his feet.

Jump up, kick airthrow looks useful too, but I don't know how easy this is to do on reaction.

-----

I can't get super jump HK as anti-air to work at all against Sagat.

I want to throw the jab Boom from far away, and then super jump HK Sagat so he falls back onto the Boom when he tries to jump over it.

Sagat j.HK is beating me clean though. Dumb move is like a wall.

Am I using this Guile strategy correctly or am I making some kind of mistake? Does it not work on Sagat or something?

------

Can somebody break down the footsies game for me?

Guile can backfist or d.MK Sagat back whenever Sagat whiffs a d.HP.

Sagat CAN'T far s.HP xx super Guile back whenever Guile whiffs a backfist.

Sagat CAN'T far s.MK or d.HK Guile back on reaction whenever Guile whiffs a d.MK.

The way Sagat needs to fight against Guile's d.MK is to preemptively stuff it with s.LK (most common) or d.HK (sometimes trade, but Sagat still gets the knockdown).

How does Sagat fight against Guile spamming the backfist on him? Preemptive d.HP is the only thing I've found so far. But yeah, if I whiff the Sagat d.HP, Guile gets to kick me for free with his d.MK.

How does Guile fight against the Sagat standing short? The only thing I can think of is using his RC Boom, but that's not safe because it leaves him open to getting jumped on. Far s.HK, the Sobot kicks?

------

I don't have time right now, but I want to go into details about Guile's corner game later. Stuff like...

-meaty RC Boom, d.LP, d.LP, d.LP xx super.
-kick throw, meaty jab Boom, d.MK, super
-d.LP, close s.HP xx HP Boom... and then what options you have to choose from after that.

-things I can do off of meaty d.MK

-incorporating dash up , throw, or dash up, d.LP, d.LP, d.LP xx super?

[AlucarDudley]

flash kick is always air-blockable, even if done as deep as possible.


You obviously do not play Guile very much. There is a certain height where the flash-kick will always connect if they have air block. Just thought I would clear up that misinformation.:tup:

[Igotthacoy]

You can airblock any move that leaves the ground. Theres no part of the flash kick that hits while you are still grounded.

[Duck Strong]

Any constructive tips on fighting Cammy? Her stupid good normals seem better than Guile's stupid good normals and you actually need to be careful when using booms against her. She's a whore. Thanks

[ZenFire]

Why are normals a problem if you RC sb's? what grooves btw?

[SanGye]

Is it your timing for everything? Guile should be able to stand up against Cammy. s.rh is of course not an option against Cammy, unless you know when to use it.

[Se7in]

Anyone know how to beat Thaiger with C or K Guile? If he spams Tiger, all I have is RC Sonic Boom, which I pull of 1 out of every 10 attempts.

[Igotthacoy]

Any constructive tips on fighting Cammy? Her stupid good normals seem better than Guile's stupid good normals and you actually need to be careful when using booms against her. She's a whore. Thanks

From a very reputable source I hear you just need to predict her rh and punish. Roll or jump in. But you Guile. Throw on sonic booms make her roll or jump. If she jumps, st. strong will snuff out most of her stuff and late cr. fierce will eat her up. If she rolls you know to either throw or just atk after you throw out that sonic boom.


Wtf is Thaiger?

[Se7in]

From a very reputable source I hear you just need to predict her rh and punish. Roll or jump in. But you Guile. Throw on sonic booms make her roll or jump. If she jumps, st. strong will snuff out most of her stuff and late cr. fierce will eat her up. If she rolls you know to either throw or just atk after you throw out that sonic boom.


Wtf is Thaiger?

Thaiger = Sagat

Think about it. :arazz:

[SanGye]

C-groove Guile should have no problem with Sagat that spams tiger all day, a lot of people like to tiger then on your jump tiger uppercut, since your C-groove punish with a c.foward, c.jab, xx flashkick (rh) on his fall. Put the pressure on him since you can rc boom to stick close to him and once close enough then use a GC string to slowly pick him off and look for an opening to toss him in that string. Bait his tiger uppercuts on his wake ups.

K-Groove Guile small jump the low tigers to advance or JD a bunch of them till you have bar and get close enough to catch him on one of his tigers to a sonic hurricane, after that mess I doubt he would still want to spam tigers on you like that the rest of the match unless hes retarded and wants to eat another hurricane. If your JDing is good then jump in on him at times and JD his AA attempts and punish him with a rh or if you JDed the whole tiger uppercut then use your air grab, begin GC/pressure/mix ups.

What groove is the Sagat anyway?

[Se7in]

C-groove Guile should have no problem with Sagat that spams tiger all day, a lot of people like to tiger then on your jump tiger uppercut, since your C-groove punish with a c.foward, c.jab, xx flashkick (rh) on his fall. Put the pressure on him since you can rc boom to stick close to him and once close enough then use a GC string to slowly pick him off and look for an opening to toss him in that string. Bait his tiger uppercuts on his wake ups.

K-Groove Guile small jump the low tigers to advance or JD a bunch of them till you have bar and get close enough to catch him on one of his tigers to a sonic hurricane, after that mess I doubt he would still want to spam tigers on you like that the rest of the match unless hes retarded and wants to eat another hurricane. If your JDing is good then jump in on him at times and JD his AA attempts and punish him with a rh or if you JDed the whole tiger uppercut then use your air grab, begin GC/pressure/mix ups.

What groove is the Sagat anyway?

C-Groove. He does exactly what you said, spam Tiger, often with mixups between low and high, then Tiger Uppercuts me when I go for the jump in. What's the best method besides jump blocking and going for the cr. mp xx FK.

If I decide to stick it out with K-Guile, I image I could practice my JD skills, and learn to JD the Tiger Uppercut, though does the Fierce version of Tiger Uppercut hit more than once if I JD the first hit?

[SanGye]

Use your RC boom, hop/advance poke. What you can do is do a lp boom from mid screen to bait a tiger from to stop the boom so you can make an advance of either jumping at him or hop to him to GC set him up. It's better if you learn c.mk, c.lp xx FK to take more out of him. Pick your rolls and if he doesn't know to toss you out of a roll then put that as an advantage to get in on him for mix ups.

You have to JD all 5 hits of a fierce tiger uppercut or JD the 1st hit and (input attack) since there is an opening between the time the 1st and 2nd tiger uppercut connect. Small jump low tiger to do a j.mk and connect it to a c.mk, (GC string begins). If he doesn't tiger your sonic booms then run at him and start pressuring him to force him to roll or whiff a tiger uppercut and punish with either a combo or a throw.

If he only spams low/high tigers and tiger uppercut you on jumps he really should have a bunch of openings for you to pick him off at. Look for patterns assuming you guys play each other on console to practice a lot. A good Sagat will GC you with a few c.fierces or pick openings to s/c.fierce you to wait for an opening to hurt you more since you have lower health and hes just trying to run the clock.

[Se7in]

Use your RC boom, hop/advance poke. What you can do is do a lp boom from mid screen to bait a tiger from to stop the boom so you can make an advance of either jumping at him or hop to him to GC set him up. It's better if you learn c.mk, c.lp xx FK to take more out of him. Pick your rolls and if he doesn't know to toss you out of a roll then put that as an advantage to get in on him for mix ups.

You have to JD all 5 hits of a fierce tiger uppercut or JD the 1st hit and (input attack) since there is an opening between the time the 1st and 2nd tiger uppercut connect. Small jump low tiger to do a j.mk and connect it to a c.mk, (GC string begins). If he doesn't tiger your sonic booms then run at him and start pressuring him to force him to roll or whiff a tiger uppercut and punish with either a combo or a throw.

If he only spams low/high tigers and tiger uppercut you on jumps he really should have a bunch of openings for you to pick him off at. Look for patterns assuming you guys play each other on console to practice a lot. A good Sagat will GC you with a few c.fierces or pick openings to s/c.fierce you to wait for an opening to hurt you more since you have lower health and hes just trying to run the clock.

:rofl:

I'm terrible at RC'ing. Therefore, I will try the K-Groove attempt. I'm better with K-Rock than C-Ken anyway.

Just so I know, is Sagat considered a bad matchup for Guile?

[SanGye]

:rofl:

I'm terrible at RC'ing. Therefore, I will try the K-Groove attempt. I'm better with K-Rock than C-Ken anyway.

Just so I know, is Sagat considered a bad matchup for Guile?

Statistically I'm not sure if it's a bad or good matchup. But Maj or someone else who knows could probably tell you.

[Se7in]

Statistically I'm not sure if it's a bad or good matchup. But Maj or someone else who knows could probably tell you.

I feel bad. He has to answer like 90% of the Guile questions I answer lol. I wish Nakanishi posted here so I didn't have to bother Maj all the time.

Thanks anyway though.

[Igotthacoy]

Guile and Sagat are bout even. Honestly you dont' need to RC it helps hella but nah you don't need it. Guile is a natural turtle so don't be jumping and rolling for atking. (shut up buk)

[ShinAkumax]

Any constructive tips on fighting Cammy? Her stupid good normals seem better than Guile's stupid good normals and you actually need to be careful when using booms against her. She's a whore. Thanks

Ha ha ha, there is NOTHING you can do Strong NOTHING HA HA HA HA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA20dKc3kK8

[Igotthacoy]

dumb

[SanGye]

One cocky fucken Guile, and why hes Top Tier C-Groove!

EDIT: don't often see someone taunt to get their bar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVAj0P9m1dY

[typetenchi]

Hey all,
I'm having some match up trouble so I'm wondering if anyone around can help me.

I seem to get pinned down by Sakura and Rolento. Is there any good general strategy for this match up?

Sakura seems to pin me pretty hard with RC-Hurricane spam. Is there much I can do about this besides Alpha Counter or Roll? It seems Guile doesn't have anything fast to prevent her from spamming that move.

Rolento isn't so bad for me but from what I've learned. Sonic Booms are useless against him with that command roll of his. He's just all over the place. It seems pretty hard for me to out zone him.

Any suggestions would be great.

-10

[D@RU]

Sakura is a pain to fight at close range.
c.mk the girl at max range, this poke is safe if she start rc hurricane, you should have time to react (blocking, rc flashkick latest possible, roll through). Fierce and backfist are good anti jump. You re just aim to have enough place to start your sonic boom pressure.
Once you got distance she can rc all the day it is useless since she won't touch you^^
And alpha counter and roll are always good options with guile. Roll on reaction though.

Another thing with guile is back + mk move at the begining of the round. It set up distance well against many characters. from there your job is to keep that distance where they cannot just rc spam safely.

I don't play any good rolento but again c.mk is good poke against him and late rc sonic boom into his rolling attack should work. Don't forget flash kick and your anti air like cFierce and stStrong.

(page 1 there is some basics about fighting sak^^)

[typetenchi]

^^^
Coo, thanks.

[D@RU]

^^^
Coo, thanks.
Thx hope this helps a bit^^

[misterpoon]

Any good CVS2 c-groove guile video matches?? Been trying to look for some. So far i found some Daigo and John Choi guile vids.

Can you guys suggest other vids/players? Thanks.

[D@RU]

Look for "nakanishi" for Japan side. There are other guile players but I cannot remember them^^ Hopefully nakanishi might be one of the best (if not the best) guile around.

[Ouroborus]

mulder's guile is not too bad also

[MAGUNITO]

nakanishi is really good :)

EDIT: too slow

[Hellion]

I play against my brother more often than not when I get to visit home in NorCal, he runs N-Iori/Rugal/Rolento.
vs C-Ken/Guile/Cammy, it's almost a good bet that if he gets past Ken, it's over (though I am getting better at fighting his N-Iori with these latter two, and as he plays Rugal second and Rolento third, even if his Iori hurts Guile badly I get to make a come back now and then, yay me)

Learned a few things
At mid range
Be wary of throwing booms against Iori
he can counter those with
-RC Rekka
-low jump HK
-roll
Sometimes he may just do the first two pre-emptively because low jumps in general piss Guile off, and a perfectly ranged RC Rekka is something he really has a hard time dealing with.
And with the roll, at 29 frames vs the booms 43, he has plenty of time to react and mash on his close standing jabs, which leads to how overpowering Iori is when he has the initiative over Guile.
If your Guile has become predictable and dependant on booms for zoning Iori out and building meter, a well timed and positioned roll leaves you open for anywhere from 3000-6000 damage depending on how the match has gone.
Even if he fails to hit with mashing his close standing jabs (because he was a little late on either that or the roll itself), at +7 on block he's effectively gained control.
Note again, this is really only at a range where his roll brings him close enough to stuff your next move.
At the range where he'd roll into your d.mk range, you'd recover before and your d.mk will naturally nail him.

In which case, he procedes to work the guard bar with Rekka/far s.HK

Point Blank
Three things decides how this goes,
-who is in control, i.e. has the initiative
-How Guile applies that pressure when he has the initiative
-How Iori decides to counter that pressure.

Iori seems to completely dominate here.
Booms have a 13 frame startup.
Flash kick 6 frames.
RC's will add 1-3 typically to specials, so RCing them to get out of pressure here won't work at all unless perhaps it's a wakeup reversal situation RC Flashkick, but I wouldn't try it simply because the risk/reward is heavily against Guile here; Iori will see it coming if he's good, and I've been thrown enough times to learn not to even bother in this instance.

If Iori has the initiative;

-His 2 frame close s.lp beats out Guile's 3 frame jabs, and standard punch throws. It comes with a +7 tacked on it, meaning links are near brain-dead easy and potential ticks to scum gale are hard to spot.
The only saving grace against this move is you can block it while charging low, which unfortunately leave Guile open to low jump mixups or Iori's fast low jump strong.

-His low jump mixups are excellent, all leading to potential scum gale, low jump combos or counter-hit setups.

-If he has meter when you're bringing it he can potentially counter-roll your slightly more laggy normals, and should you cancel to a boom, you're definitely getting punished. Even if he didn't he's effectively established point blank range so you have to watch for his close s.lp, or scum gale, because those two are more likely than not coming your way.


---
Some things Guile can do in this matchup:

**For one thing, you should never jump,
at least not wthout a knockdown, preferably after setting one up towards the corner with a throw, followed with a boom to superjump MK or a rare immediate superjump MK timed as though you were going for a free jump in setup, or making use of the 2nd player crossup glitch, or you guess his low jump and air throw that.
Setting up an ambiguous lk crossup following a combo'd LK Flashkick may be possible, but as Iori effectively has Guile on lock with jump ins with numerous answers it's best to keep such attempts minimal to prevent needless loss of life.

**Zone, zone, zone.
Try your best to take control, but don't take needless risks. If you allow Iori to dictate the match for you and you find yourself reacting to him as Guile, you will likely loose.

-Auto pilot Guile definitely does not work; keep that charge, but learn to relinquish it when necessary.

-RC Boom always when you can, RC'd through his max range fireballs and at mid range in case he does an RC Rekka or goes for a low jump. Point Blank RC'ing isn't really necessary because you'll want to do that off normals anyway, though slightly outside of throw range is fine and hard to react to.

-His low jump roundhouses will be a pain if you don't have charged RC Booms at the ready, haven't mastered them at all, or have fallen into a sort of boom pattern. A pre-emptive f+HP is excellent but you've got to relinquish your charge to do that and if your execution is off you get a fierce boom and a boot to the head. Standing MP should work but I haven't been able to get it to. RC booms or f+HP's are the prefered tool for keeping out low jumps, you're just going to have to do well at keeping him out on the ground to hopefully get him to try a random low jump to punish.

-Guile's d.mk's are not rollable at all, same with are his d.mp's but don't fall into patterns where your booms become predictable following these two moves. Depending on how good he is with his RC Rekka's, he may try going for one following safe moves on the block such as this for a counter-hit attempt, or simply to gain control as Guile would with a hit/blocked sonic boom.
If he RC Rekka's and you RC Boom following a d.mk, you both come out damn near even, with 1st hit rekka being at 44 frames and boom at 43.
With his 2 frame jab vs your 3 frame one and punch throws at the ready, whoever did their RC move first effectively won.
If you think it is coming though from how the match has played out try to delay a little as the Rekka has a 12 frame startup, you can get it's four hit frames to whiff and nail him with a jab boom as it comes out in 13 if he was going for a 1 hit rekka, though if he catches on to that he could just finish and do the other 2 rekkas but I doubt that. As all RC moves have about 27 frames of invulnerability anyway the possibility of the boom itself hitting him isn't likely, but is your best bet.
Either that or going for it immediately following the d.mk.
Depends on how it plays out.
Still, I like moving into range for d.mk to connect if Iori closes the distance and hasn't RC Rekka'd yet; once this move hits, you're as in control as though following a connected sonic boom (d.mk's +6/+6 hit and block, boom +5 on hit only).
If you block a 1st hit Fierce RC Rekka he's at -5, depending on its range, that's perhaps the only window of opportunity you'll have to punish it.
If you have enough meter built up throughout the match or you put Guile second you should have it as a sort of deterrence to this scenario, in which case he'll focus more on ranged Rekka's/far s.HK's for guard bar, then you can go back to RC Booms, so on so forth.
Even then, do not switch back to auto.

-Don't fall into patterns at (or from) point blank by cancelling d.mp's into booms.
If anything try to randomize those normals to boom patterns, cancelling them on occasion off jabs and an occasional d.mp to try to bait a counter-roll to punish via combo or throw.

-Trying to challenge him point blank generally won't work for long, you'll end up with a pressure string which will lead up to the RC Rekka boom or a Hurricane setup if you have it, and with the latter being risky if he blocked it's best just to remember the d.mk.

-Always try to keep your charge, you're better with it than without it, and it sets a background pattern where anything outside of playing with charging in mind is slightly something of a surprise, and will add a few split seconds for it to work (though as Guile has only a few safe options in this matchup, that really is more like a few split milli-seconds)

-Mixup the moments when you throw your booms while both characters are grounded, throwing a boom at the earliest opportunity may be the safest thing to do, but as there is a gap there this leaves the tactic in a sense, predictable. Vary it by delaying just a bit longer here and there when close to mid range before firing one off immediately to keep Iori on his toes.

-If N-Iori has meter and blocks your mid-screen Sonic Hurricane, he will counter-roll out and combo you. Try going for counter-hit d.mk following another d.mk instead of just doing this randomly, or if you notice him RC'ing after d.mk use it to nail him there.

-If he scores a knockdown mid screen and goes for a crossup lk, try going for the chicken block air throw.

-If he's got you cornered and you're trying to charge down back and he low jumps, go for the far s.MP, RC Boom if you have it, or just block standing if you don't have the charge. Even if the far s.MP trades, at least you'll have the charge and prevent a low jump to DP combo and if you can somehow force him out with d.lp's to d.mk during his counter-hit throw mixups, he may go for a low jump HK or strong which leaves him open for that lvl flashkick super, or you could try a random lvl 2 wipeout or Sonic Hurricane (as you're cornered he can't counter-roll it, just do it when he mashes), or as you saw it coming chicken block air throw.
Of course, as with DP's in cornered situations, he may expect this coming as a desperation move and try to bait it, which may buy you the time needed to land a d.mk and push him back out.


Some Key Points
-A blocked boom -+0 on block. Try to pay attention to whether or not it hits. If it does you may get to follow up with a d.mk without too much risk of punishment, either way is open to RC Rekka, but window is a bit smaller on a hit. Potential counter-hit mk if the boom pushed him too far out for a close standing jab/crouching short to connect and he goes for low strong.

-Blocked lvl 2 wipeout is -2 on block, 4 frame startup after the 4 frame flash.

-Blocked Hurricane is -4 on block, 5 frame super flash, 4 frame startup
If he's on top of you where he would likely mash close s.lp, that may be an opening to land these and escape the pressure and possibly setup a crossup with wipeout, boom with hurricane, though hurricane isn't safe vs N-Iori blocked.

-mid to full ranged d.mk (at +6 on block) may lead to the Rekka vs Boom situation above.

If nothing else, just keep this in mind:
If Iori gets in on you, unless you push back it's over. And he knows you know it.

Anyone else have anything?
It's a very hard matchup.

[Ouroborus]

i think u can sonic hurricane a blocked c.hk from iori

maybe a blocked rekka too. i know u can with sagats tiger raid (level 2 or 3) reversal against a point blanka rekka (usually rc'ed as a poke by iori) but i never seem to get a reversal sonic hurricane to hit after blocking a rekka even though sonic hurricane is supposed to be just as fast, if not, even faster than sagats tiger raid.

you can try tacking on a c.lp/standing lp first then cancel into sonic hurricane but theres spacing issues where the c.lp/standing lp will connect.

[D@RU]

Thank you for the input, I always thought Iori's is possibly Guile's worst matchup. Any character with fast roll is problematic anyways.

Unfortunately i played only a few Iori's so i cannot train this matchup^^ But i guess you sum it up well :) Don't get stuck in close range! Easier said than done!

From my little experience... I am by no means an expert, but...

Alpha counter might help a bit in close situations, then immediately throw a boom or two if possible, to rebuild bar, force him to react and try to zone accordingly, don't forget the sonic hurricane threat when you have it.

Always watch for roll/counter roll even if it's very hard to punish. It's Iori's roll after all^^ But as you said, always throw a boom when you have the range and safety for it, coz... you're GUILE!

I think the "danger zone" is if he goes closer than ~c.Mk range. If you are in that range and you get some block strings patterns don't throw boom. It's just to easy for him to roll and kill you. I would eventually go for mini pokes war, dash in if i m not in the corner (yes i like to dash in, maybe not good)... And take any opening to roll/ Jump/AC... ESCAPE! :D

Non-roll ioris are better deals imo.

If he ever jumps in, i guess Guile has the advantage with Jump HK/AirThrow/FlashKick. But i'm wishing too much :)

A few questions:

How does roll works against RC rekkas (if you see it coming) to maintain the "before c.mk range?"

How does toward/Back/Neutral + far MK works against him? This move is very good as spacing normal in general, with airborne property. Can iori crouch it?
I don't know if anyone can crouch it in fact :)

I'm afraid there is no magical trick in this matchup :D

[Hellion]

Alpha counter might help a bit in close situations, then immediately throw a boom or two if possible, to rebuild bar, force him to react and try to zone accordingly, don't forget the sonic hurricane threat when you have it.
Well, alpha counter only deals about 600 damage and takes a good chunk of your guard bar away and hits high, he can crouch it.
AC'ing the RC Rekka could work to keep him away, but your chances of getting a sonic hurricane threat are much diminished because Iori works the guardbar faster and has more tools with which to get in which prevent you from really ever building back up if he's on the offensive and you're being careful.
AC'ing jabs won't work, 'cause he'll recover in time to block and punish.
And if he was going low with shorts instead, you just missed and lost a bunch of guard bar, and ate a combo.
Actually if you do use the AC once, it'll only be a temporary respite which he easily counters the next time if at all, and I feel somehow you're handing him the match because in doing this, your guardbar will not regenerate fighting Iori.



I think the "danger zone" is if he goes closer than ~c.Mk range.

A few questions:

How does roll works against RC rekkas (if you see it coming) to maintain the "before c.mk range?"
Well this is why I asked buk in his thread about reaction time.
-Guile's roll is 35 frames long (27/4U/4R)
-RC Rekka is longer at 45 frames (12/4/29) a blocked one is at -5, but well positioned max range rekka is fairly hard to punish for a lot of characters, it's like Kyo's LP rekka, 1 hit.
I have no doubt that point blank Guile would be able to reversal Hurricane that, but Iori doesn't do that when Guile's got a lvl 3 ready.
-s.HK is at 35 frames (9/7/22)
-d.HK stands at 49 frames long[9/4/36] -16 frames blocked (which is probably why I never see this because RC Boom/reversal super crush it, and Guile's always charging)
-Low Jump HK is a pain in the ass (7/8)

As he said, 16 frames was perhaps the fastest he see's players react to something. However that doesn't take into account psychic dragonpunches.
The slightest twitch of animation from say a Dhalsim Poke which was expected is all Ryu needed trying to get in for Psychic DP Bait, unless he was on autopilot and was going to do it anyway, in which case he just get's punished.

Provided Iori is mashing away with RC Rekkas because Guile is having a hard time dealing with them, you should be able to roll through it and back dash to safety if you roll on reaction... but we're talking 16/60ths of a second.
Let's say you saw it coming and you MAKE SURE you are rolling what you want to roll, that can be anywhere maybe from 10-16 frames IMO, up to what Buk's realistic estimation of 20.

so 45 frame rekka *minus* 10-20 frames reation time) equals 35 (dead even with Guile's roll, which is kinda meh) to 25 (Guile's hurting)

There's a fine line from rolling at the slightest twitch when u dunno what it is to rolling to counter RC Rekka, and that fine line is about 12/60ths of a second long. If Iori see's you doing this in response to his RC Rekka he may bait it out with a quicker meaty normal that recovers faster than your roll and punish.

I stay away from roll in this scenario for that reason.
Another, if he did a regular s.HK, you roll right into him, and he recovers slightly before you do, and I discussed the dangers of that in my post above.

As he'll probably never sweep in this matchup unless you flashkick and he was just being lazy with the dp's/d.hp's.


How does toward/Back/Neutral + far MK works against him? This move is very good as spacing normal in general, with airborne property. Can iori crouch it?
I don't know if anyone can crouch it in fact :)

I have no problem using this when he runs after his fireballs to get in close, provided I haven't negated it with a boom of my own. As you're airborn, if you get hit by RC Rekka you get knocked down instead of eating the whole 2000+ damage, you hit with it you're at +1. That's if he guesses right, he could do it a little late and hit you on your recovery probably, which means you eat the full combo and are probably cornered.
He can't really roll it on reaction unless you're spamming it mindlessly, and in my experience using it I've never been punished. I use it while backing away to build meter and keep him at bay, and use it when I advance along with d.mk following a connected boom.

..EDIT: On reflection, the move is good enough to almost abuse against him, but unfortunately spamming anything against Iori is not recommended.

I try to stay away from s.HK because I fear him catching on and rolling that, but after a boom I sneak maybe one or two in a match.
If he tries to roll a boom from just out of d.MK range he could eat a nicely timed s.hk though if you're up for it.


I'm afraid there is no magical trick in this matchup :D
I figured I'd contribute what I could.
My brother's Iori isn't quite the best in the world, but he plays him rather the way he's supposed to be played and RC's well and doesn't take needless risks, which is funny because Iori is one of those "go apeshit when in their face" sorts of characters.

I actually do pretty much what you said, using light attacks and roll safe moves to try to force him to low jump HK so I can flash kick that.

The only problem with that plan is dealing with the RC Rekka, which effectively ruins everything unless you some how counter it.
B+MK could work just at the Rekka range to bait one, to punish with d.MK xx super perhaps.
I'll try that next time.
Having that lvl 2 or 3 is key to fighting Iori with Guile, which is why I always put him second to deal with Iori should Ken fall. Maybe in that match against him I should anchor Guile, as he tends to do well against Rolento.
Then again, so does Cammy.

[FSgamer]

I know Iori's c.MP has good priority and it tends to beat other pokes. Does Iori's c.MP gives Guile trouble?

[Hellion]

I know Iori's c.MP has good priority and it tends to beat other pokes. Does Iori's c.MP gives Guile trouble?

Depends on the range it's done.
As it has the same range as far s.lp, and as it is the move Iori will want to mash on given the choice between those two at same range, it'll effectively stuff d.mk.
Where d.mk's boot hits Iori's shins, Iori's d.mp has no effect.

f/b + MK beat's it clean in that if he's just sitting there mashing and you're moving back the boot > hand.

Guile's d.lp's stuff d.mp on startup if doing close enough for d.mp to connect, but further than close s.lp.---IIRC. It stuffs it on startup if the d.lp's are close enough to do so, I should say.

typically though I dun see d.mp much from him in that scenario, though I'll be sure to mention all this to him and see if he learns anything from it and completely dominates my Guile like the first few times we played.








EDIT:
OH yeah.
With regards to RC Fierce Rekka, as it's startup is 12 frames, depending on how abusive he is with this move, as it IS a move Iori may want to abuse, if he's close and doing this repeatedly try mashing b+HP to throw him out of the startup.
I don't really think he needs to abuse it that badly though, just an effective means to guard crush and get point blank in a Rekka vs Boom situation, which is where he wants to be anyway.

[FSgamer]

Depends on the range it's done.
Thanks for the response.

In some situations (eg: if I'm having a bad day and I'm messing up my RC Rekkas) I like using c.MP from maximum distance to discourage people from throwing out random pokes. I was just wondering if it's any good against Guile.

[D@RU]

Having that lvl 2 or 3 is key to fighting Iori with Guile, which is why I always put him second to deal with Iori should Ken fall.
Yup me too, even if guile is good starter and battery, just having sonic hurricane threat hurts the game of any "wise" opponent^^ So i place him second except when there is cammy or honda to begin the match.

[Hellion]

Rugal's Rugal, no real need to go into that matchup imo.
Feel that every Guile player should be able to handle this, just don't let Rugal corner you and punish all his attempts to crossup--without a means to set the latter up he's easy to zone.

ROLENTO, on the other hand, can be a pain.
My bro though doesn't exactly play the best Rolento in the world, but for what he is capable of he's not too bad.

*Has the excellent low jump MP overhead xx lvl 3 tripwire.

*A good crossup.

*Plays him in N, so he has RC's. Potentially good RC's to get out of cornered situations, or to blast through patterns/anticipated moves.
--RC scouter jump/wall jump to get out/attack jump ins
--RC Patriot Circles (though not really safe to do if you miss, it moves you forward quite a bit and can potentially net a good bit of damage)

*Rolento is good at running away, baiting obvious attacks and punishing them with attacks such as slide or run up d.mk xx patriot circles/pop lvl 3 tripwire, etc.

*Not too shabby wake up options either, lvl 1 tripwires are fairly safe, at least every time I try to punish one with a jab ('cause that's all I have) I get nailed.

*Walk up jab/counterhit d.mk/throw mixups are godly with Rolento, thanks in part to his decent walk speed and extended 60 pixel throw range.

---I can't elaborate too much on this 'cause even though I showed my brother how to do RC scouter/SPD style RC's, he cannot or will not do them.
Even if he learned it though, as C-Guile has airblock and airthrow once he gets Rolento cornered the match is effectively his IMO.



Anyone got anything to contribute on fighting this character?
I'll go into more specifics on how I go about fighting his N-Rolento later, but as C is considered to be the premier one maybe someone'd have something. Low jump/Run/RC Rolento is quite good though.


EDIT:Will probably just edit this post thoroughly later on with more dirt on how both characters do in this match up--C-Guile vs N-Rolento.

EDIT:Hmmm. Outside of the stuff I posted really Rolento is actually a fairly easy fight for me anyway with Guile. Harrass with Booms and regular normals that Guile likes, get him in a corner and just do what Guile does best there.
He tries to RC out just airthrow him back.
He sorta telegraphs his intent breaking stock, trying to go for the low jump MP xx lvl3 tripwire.
Hard to block, ensure you block high of course for j.mp then immediately shift the stick to down back before the superflash comes out, otherwise you're hung.
He gets desperate, he may AC his way out and reset the match, so watch out for that when he has meter of course.
In that instance though, as he just knocked you down with the alpha counter if you were using a string with some recovery, he could go for a crossup MK, or in my brother's case as well low jump strong. Keep that charge and use it accordingly if you intend to reverse.
If you don't, you'll be dealing with his good close-in game.


Close in, when he has control he actually is rather dangerous with his walking jabs.
Potential for counter-hits are really high, he lands one he links d.mk xx patriot circles for good damage or even a lvl 3. His throw range is obscene if you don't bite.
As you lack a 2 frame normal to beat throws your only options are to tech or go for random super.
Might I recommend lvl 2 wipeout?
RC's of course do not help for the same reasons I mentioned above. RC Boom is out of the question, and the fastest RC Flashkick is airborn in 4 frames, 6 before it even hits.
As punch throws come out in 3, well.

Of course the best defense against all that is to not let it happen.
Guile is pretty good at defense anyway, by applying constant boom pressure and nailing all jump-in (jump out?) attempts you'll be fine.

And besides, doing all that means YOU'll have the advantage of momentum on your side in these close engagements.

Rolento's lvl 1 tripwire has a rediculous success ratio at beating normals though.
When you're on top of him landing those jabs and he's on wakeup or you're merely dashing in following a boom, and you've been doing well at preventing RC scouter jump escape attempts, the odds of lvl 1 tripwire/alpha counter go up.
Guile hops a bit during his dash though, so if you time it right on his wakeup you'll hope over it.
Otherwise just knuckle down, back off a bit and block, resume pressure.
Often times too, he'll go for numerous lvl 1 tripwires.
That stuff is insane, after one I think I can hit, mash jab and get nailed by the next.
An RC Boom will likely beat it so always keep that charge and always RC those booms you don't cancel off normals.
Oh, the best move to challenge Rolento on wakeup outside of crossups IMO is f/b+MK.
The Sobat cleanly goes over any lvl tripwire and nails him, so you can feel free to bully him with a string like a close range f+MK, d.lp, d.mk xx Boom or close range f+MK, d.lkx3, far s.MP xx Boom, etc.

If he goes for random RC Patriot circles, those aren't safe if he missed, but as he can cancel after a bit into the second and third hits you really want to delay as late as possible before counter attacking with a normal otherwise you risk getting counter hit.
For that I recommend d.mk or d.lp's if you're close enough.
If you have a lvl 2 or lvl 3 stored up by all means have at 'em and punish his missed Patriots during the recovery of 1st hit.

It almost goes without saying, at mid/far range be careful when he has a lvl 3 ready. Tripwires are fast and if he sees a boom he can connect all that way and the boom will have no effect, though RC'd from mid-full screen with reaction time thrown in you'd think you're pretty safe...
invincibility lasts what, 27 frames?
Sonic Boom animation? 43?
As that's all he'll be expecting from you at long range, he may have an itchy trigger finger ready to fire off that tripwire at moment's notice.
Such instances I like to advance with careful b+LK's or just walk up to about a range where I may be able to land a d.MK or f+MK Sobat to regain momentum.
Seeing as you've lost your charge doing that, he'll like to use his knives since you can't RC through them, but he'll then be open to an immediate superjump HK.

If and once you land a lvl 2 wipeout xx flashkick (preferably LK), by all means go for the crossup.
Lacking a DP, and only having s.MP as anti air (which is actually pretty good at keeping Guile out from just jumping in), the crossup will almost always hit deep unless he's pretty good at RC scouter jumping out.
'course, I told you all that my brother can't or won't do that, therefore he'll always gets nailed by it.

[D@RU]

About Rugal, nothing special to mention i guess, he is easy to zone just be wary of his RC Godpress, his trademark move against fireballs, slow meaties, and so on...
But if you zone him at the right distance, and know what he can do (don't get predictable when attacking him) there is nothing special to worry about. It's a normal match both sides.

[Hellion]

Analyzing some vids of Diago's and Nakanishi. Seems they RC those Booms at all times, likely because when Guile's not in a position to make them safe off cancelled moves anything can happen, RC Scissors, RC Psycho Crusher, etc.
It's impressive seeing a jab boom nail Bison's foot consistently while Guile's covered due to the RC's invincibility.
I am a little shaky with RC'ing jab booms, but Pianoing the punch buttons during the RC I can almost absent-mindedly fire away no problem. Anyone here RC their booms the same way way?
Gonna do some analysis of C-Guile vs C/K Sagat and A/K Blanka in a bit n edit this post.
It's funny I always liked playing Guile in N-better, seems more effective at Guard crush that groove.

[FSgamer]

I am a little shaky with RC'ing jab booms, but Pianoing the punch buttons during the RC I can almost absent-mindedly fire away no problem. Anyone here RC their booms the same way way?
Back when I played Guile I could RC all 3 SB strengths pretty consistently. For the jab one I negative edge the jab button. For RCing charge moves I use the half circle method (charge db, roll the stick to f, drum my fingers over the buttons). Some people find it awkard but is the method that works best for me.
It's funny I always liked playing Guile in N-better, seems more effective at Guard crush that groove.
I'm the other way around, I've always preferred Guile in C. I've never liked using him in N, even though N is my favorite groove in this game. Probably because all I did with Guile was turtling the entire match.

[Hellion]

I'm the other way around, I've always preferred Guile in C. I've never liked using him in N, even though N is my favorite groove in this game. Probably because all I did with Guile was turtling the entire match.

Well, the way I saw it he still had a threat of lvl 3 Sonic Hurricane, it just wasn't a lvl 3 u can perform anytime as a reversal until you broke stock. On that note, at least, you still have pop lvl 3 for footsies.

Love low jump.
Low jump MK's are good, empty low jump is always nice, though you really don't get much out of that besides a throw or d.lp's. It's another way to get back in following a boom.

Break stock and run up following a sonic boom and getting their guard to flashing, and while they're still in block stun and you barely have time on the depleting meter lvl 3 'em for the guard crush and potentially up to max damage on the Hurricane.

While Guile's in their face breaking stock, always on the attack with his strings, RC'ing those booms when he pushes himself out too far and running in again, that's less time he has to worry about anti-airing people IMO. He seems to always close the gap quickly and go for the guard break.

If he jumps at all, even in C, it's to counter what the other person is doing anyway, or to cross up. He's generally better off doing that if he sets that situation up, otherwise he'll just get anti-aired every single time.
C or N groove.

Saying running doesn't help Guile because he's a charge character is really figurative, and IMO a matter of taste; you don't hold charge when you dash forward, and his dash isn't Rugals.
As you can cancel a run into anything, after a boom from max d.mk range you can run up a sec and hit d.mk again and immediatly charge, run up a little closer and charge db with a jab, d.mp, d.mk, boom, low jump mk, d.mp, d.mk boom, so on so forth.
You can run forward and throw, it just takes more precision and effort, and is an extension of those counter-hit/throw mindgames really. Gotta get them to block more.

His strings make it easy to do nearly anything you want following a boom anyway.

Maybe I get that from playing N-Iori when I first started, but it works.
Trouble is I realize, while I enjoyed rushdown a lot, I seem to do much better when I play getting the opponent to react to what I do, then counter it.

[D@RU]

What i didn't like too much with N Guile is not having the threat of sonic hurricane (plus i love level 2 cancels anyway) and not having airguard. Against K and P i jump more than often when they jump at me to airthrow them. Having an airguard ensures i won't eat an early jump hk, or get my jump HK just defended.

IMO his run and dash are even. I was able to do same strings following a SB. It is a matter of taste^^

I don't say N-Guile isn't good of course, just i don't feel as comfortable with him than I do in C.

I still have troubles with Jab SB, but i have some success in double tapping-roll (Back+Roll, then Toward+Roll).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have never seen any discussion about "how to use SB properly".
I mean why go for such speed in such situations and so on, maybe because many people here have been playing guile since the early SF games??? :) And already know how to zone for ages? What's your SB plan then?

So i'm going to speak a bit about how i use SB in GENERAL (because matchups always need adjustments). Please feel free to share your own stuff (and criticizing mine). I could be missing something important!

Guile isn't just randomly throwing sonic booms all day^^ He seems to, but it's more complex than that. Let's see, you want to mimic nakanishi, throw a lot of sonic booms and finally eat a jumpin super combo, and you're dead... then WTF guile sucks!?? O_o

SO (assuming you can do RC Sonic Booms consistently)

1) I mostly base my placement depending on their jump trajectory.

For every character there are several spots where when you throw SB and they jump in:

_You can punish them, throw another RC Boom, or at least trade.
_You can block or roll in time.
_You are dead. Sounds rude hey?

Knowing these spots is crucial because people know you're going to throw plenty of booms, and if they are smart will always aim to stay in your "danger zones". Guile isn't that hot for footsies, except the c.mk/c.MP, his normals reveal their potential in addition to sonic booms.

Generally, throwing SB from full screen is safe, but there are other spots where you want to be. Obviously you won't land as much damage if you just stay away all day unless they just block and do anything, in such an ideal case (which will never happen), when you're about to crush them, remember that from about full screen and closer, you always have range, time, and safety for LP/MP Sonic Boom (hit or block), then roll (optionnal c.MK) Sonic Hurricane. Keep that in mind when it comes to GC purpose.

So they are often mid ranges spots where you can safely throw Lp/Mp SB and follow up. Opponents whose jump is more vertical than horizontal, you want to stay close, so you can avoid crossup jumps with early c.HP, flashkick, or just moving forward/rolling away. You could also airthrow...

At that range and closer I use the HP SBoom carefully, because it can fuck up the followup sometimes, hitting to early and your opponent has already recovered, by the time you dash to him/kick etc etc... mp sonic boom is a good deal.

IMO HP RC SBoom have their use for defensive purpose, when opponent is pressuring you and you just need to breath a little :) (ie: Reset the game)
It's also handy as pressure starter from a far. You watch how opponent reacts, throw another Lp/Mp SB when they jump in (the further the jump travels, the lower RC Boom speed), you mix up beetwen Mp/Hp SB when they are on defense, sometimes throwing a lp boom and go for pressure strings etc...

But i barely use HP ones for attacking, for the reason i mentionned before. Maybe run helps, i don't know. RC MP sonic boom is my favourite anyways^^


Other thing to be aware of:

_Other RC moves. Also knowing which of your opponent's moves can easily beat your SB and at what range they do is important.
For example throwing Jab RC Booms is much safer against RC moves that make the character travels. Headbutts, scissors kicks. It has more chances to catch the opponent when invincibility ends.

Faster Booms have their use against RC Fireballs at mid/close range, especially on reaction. Beware that your SBoom doesn't just nullify the fireballs, because you're open for a free combo after that.

_Some normals, that cannot be beaten with RC.
Blanka slides comes immediately in mind. At the beggining of a round, blanka is in range for his slide. Even if you throw RC Boom, you'll get hit because his slide goes under SB and is active forever. At best, Guile and Blanka both get hit, when Blanka get back on his feet. But he got a knockdown and it's not good =)
That's why you often see Guile using the Back+MK move at the begining of the round to escape any slide. If Blanka jump in immediately, then the stMP will always beat him. Against Blanka always watch out for the slide range! Hopefully the mk hop kick is a godsend against this.

_Deadly Rolls: Most of Guile's stuff is roll safe. Unfortunately very fast rollers like Iori will give him problem.

_Low Jumps: Especially handy against Guile. RC Flashkick/ or RC Jab Boom would counter that, but opponents will most likely low jump when you have no charge available. Block or trade with a normal, it's up to you.

Anyway, when i'm close i don't hesitate to burn one level of super bar for alpha counter. Guile gets meter so fast, it's not waste at all. Just don't let them regain control or you might eat a guard crush^^

I have nothing to add for now, it's hard to me to rethink how i play when i don't play ahaha.
I think once you know how to use the SB, it's easier to go for GCStrings.
Please share if possible.

[wepeel]

Wow this is some in-depth discussion. I only have a bit to contribute...

In the past, while fighting RC happy Iori's, I would try to walk forward and throw their RC rekka. It sounds really risky on paper and whatnot, but if you do it enough times, it will usually throw the player off his RC gameplan and he'll try something else. When he takes out his RC factor, Iori is a little easier to fight...

Scenarios:

- I block an RC rekka. If he throws another RC rekka right afterwards (not a bad tactic), my walk-up-throw tactic works well.

-He throws a fireball fullscreen, and looks to RC Rekka me in some way. I throw a sonic boom to nullify his fireball and see what distance I'm at...
-- if he's baiting my backfist and retaliating with an early RC rekka, then he generally has me as that's what I'm going for as he runs or jumps towards me. But! If he's used to doing the RC rekka THAT early, then I've got him set up for d.mk xx super, late backfist, even a c.RH.

--If he's not gonna run/jump after me, and decides to just throw out another fireball, then I generally try to approach him in some way. I like sobats in this situation. I used to try to roll past his offense while building meter, but then realized that Iori is too good at finding you and you're just setting him up to do all sorts of funky jumps and setups.

Of course, if he gets predictable with the fireballs, a super jump into combo will work. That's actually how I manage to beat Poongko's Iori from time to time, with any character. I wait and twitch for his fireball, SF2 style hehe. Anyway, carry on...if there are any flaws with my strats please point them out...

[Hellion]

Let's say they somehow got in past all Guile's excellence.
Let's say they evade mid-ranged booms (whether the move goes low like a slide, or they RC through 'em)
Let's say they got the walking/running speed to apply close in pressure.
Let's say they got good low jumps, or some other threat that leads to high damage (activation).

What can Guile do?
His jabs come out in 3.
Boom/flashkick startup require 13/6 respectively.

Let's talk Nako.

If he's caught in a guard sequence such as Nako's walking jabs, his being a charge character rather requires you to be on point with your execution because if you miss you just left yourself open to a jab, crouching short xx slide (or whatever that Nako favors).

Her walk speed and bonuses off blocked close in s.lp (+8) makes this pattern rather hard for Guile to escape from. This requires some effort on Nako's part to continue the pattern, but its easier for her to maintain this than it is for Guile to escape it.

There are only two real options IMO:
(feel free to correct me on any of it though)

--1. Execute and attack through the jabs.
---- Here you can try for Guile's inferior d.lp and pray for a counter-hit, or charge
----(while taking some guard crush) and go for a precisely timed RC Boom
----(recommended) or Flash Kick (Not so much).
----The boom gets points because as Nako's walking forward, boom hits her, you
----at +5. Even if blocked, you're both even, but pattern's stopped.
----Problem, you're timing really needs to be good. Don't freak out and charge,
----then through out RC Boom. You need to pay attention to each jab and the
----delay between, and execute with good block reversal timing with the
----"ROLL" command itself, kinda like a wakeup reversal roll.
---
---Then there's your reversal lvl 3 Sonic Hurricane if you have it (if you're in C),
---Or your lvl 2 kick super. I'd recommend the latter because it's pretty safe at -2
---on block, and you don't use all your meter in case you need it for those AC's or
---building up for another. Also even if the lvl 2 WAS blocked, you can go for a
---a throw or delay a little and reversal RC flash kick... The flash kick works but
---If you guessed wrong you'll be punished.
---The level 3 gets the nod because, well, it's a level 3. That super flash mucks up
---a lot of the timing involved and has a strong chance of hitting. They AC, if at all,
---there's a strong chance they'll hit Guile but get stuck in the Hurricane.

--2. Wait it out.
----If you're blocking, your guard will go down, but she does get pushed away if
----this pattern is happening midscreen. The advantage drops from +8 to +7 for
----her long range jabs.
----So you have that small window where she tries to close the distance again to
----counter with either your d.lp or d.mp, RC Boom, kick super, hurricane.
----If she's far enough...however unlikely, you can go for your d.mk.
----Do not think though you'll beat those jabs of hers with your own. For nearly
----similar reasons Guile has problems fighting Iori, Guile has issues with Nako.
----(Any character that can evade booms really gives Guile issues besides).
----
----Also, the lull could be a sign she's going for a throw as well, ala Rolento.
----
----Anyway, waiting a little longer will make this the option to go for midscreen,
----as option 1 is rather difficult. If she has you in the corner though, you're stuck
----with option 1.

All in all, letting her, or any character with fast jabs and walking speed will give you fits.
Similar to ye'oldie N-Groove shotos.

...
Why should any of this matter?
Well, how many top tiers do you know have fast walk speeds, 2 frame jabs, are
capable of getting past Guile's booms, and can easily land incredible amounts of damage or have godly generic patterns that build up to that incredible damage?

Right.
---

Best way to prevent all this really is to ensure your mid range zoning keeps 'em out, 'cause you really don't want them in.
---

If this were a slightly different scenario, such as with Ken, he could LP dp through those jabs, and likely nail her as it comes out in 2 frames, but to do that cleanly from blocking without actually getting hit also requires solid execution. He also isn't restricted by needing a charge.

[FSgamer]

Let's say they somehow got in past all Guile's excellence.
Let's say they evade mid-ranged booms (whether the move goes low like a slide, or they RC through 'em)
Let's say they got the walking/running speed to apply close in pressure.
Let's say they got good low jumps, or some other threat that leads to high damage (activation).
The first character that came to my mind was Chun Li. 2-frame low jabs, low strong goes under SB, low jump short (or empty low jump > low short x LL), best lvl 1 super in the game.

[wepeel]

Hellion...if they're doing a bunch of walk up jabs, you can just...block. The jabs are not a threat to your guard meter, so if they're in a run groove and manage to get in 2 or 3 extra jabs to their patterns...so what? Just block until they throw out something different you can react to, and be ready to tech the throw, which will put you in a better position. Hehe...there's no need to attack them with a precisely timed RC boom. Waay too much risk for too little of a reward...if you mess up:

---you roll, which is good against people who are either too concerned with attacking you for stun points, or people who weren't prepared for throwing or punishing a roll (highly unlikely, that's why they're running with jabs...to bait out a roll or flashkick)

---they get a counter hit jab...we all know the potential for that (combos into anything)

I learn from the turtles :sweat: