HONDA bestman moveries and fatness

[Philth]

HONDA Moveset and Attributes
Discuss the character's entire moveset here, including normal moves, special moves, super moves, and all the other miscellaneous stuff like counter attacks, rolls, dodge attacks, jumps, and throws.

Also list attributes such as dizzy count, lifebar points, character size and special hitbox properties.

Once a full movelist including frame data has been provided for the character, this post will be edited to include all of it, with proper credit to the guy who copied all that stuff from the Japanese guide or whatever.

Thx Majestros and anyone who likes to contribute to the dynasty of sumo.

[nueznada]

ummmm wow lol .... ill start it off by stressing the importance of the jab headbutt .... the BEST antiair for honda .... the starting frames for it knock anything down as long as u catch the opponent with the very beginning of the animation ... the jab version of the headbutt has invulnerability frames ala ryu's shoryuken making it ideal for anti-air and other counter-measures.

useful pokes .... st. and cr. sk
st. and cr. mp
st. -> + rk (the giant leg sweep takes like halfscreen .... good to mix it up from a distance)

useful combos....jump rk, st or cr sk, fierce headbutt (hard to punish successfully)
cross-up fk, hundred hand slap

also use command grab like any grapplers' including ticking first with sk.


all this info is posted on other threads too but jus tryin to be useful .... hope i helped

honda owns .... peace

[The Gadgy]

I really like the title of this thread, haha. That is all.

[popoblo]

I SAW MAGO DO IT!

anyways, watch the SBO2 finals to see some really good honda footage. mago is an absolute beast. here's what I learned......

-a lot of people like to get in close to honda, hit like one blocked crouching jab, then cross him up. just hit standing fierce, you'll win everytime.

-buk posted this awhile back, but after you hit RC mp slappy's, you can link a crouching fierce for disgusting damage.

-mago had an interesting 50/50 360 setup up close. when somebody was waking up, he would do a standing jab, then either A) sweep you with crouching RH or B) 360 you. very effective, and i'm guessing the sweep catches you if you try and jump away.

peace

[vasAZNion13]

so i've been playing honda a bit more. here's what i learned.

from mago:
the 50/50 mixup is actually almost gauranteed damage(unless it's corner, then it's pretty much free damage). let's say you knock them down, you do s.jab, c.short, s.short(watever) or any tick move, do RC 360(not completely sure why he RC's it yet, only an idea), they...1) get 360'ed, or 2)jump.

if they jump(and are in the corner), do s.fierce immediately, there's nothing they can do. they CAN try to trade hits with the s.fierce by doing an early j.rh or fierce or whatever...however...i dont' think anyone would, cuz that means if honda decides to block instead of doing s.fierce after whiff 360, it's free damage for honda on their way down from the jump.

here are some thoughts on why he does RC 360(dunno if this has been discussed before):
-avoid "combo breakers" like psychic DP, which always means free damage if they whiff
-add a 1-3 frames to your 360 grab so if they try to jab you out of it, they'll jab nothing(frame data would help me out here)
-add a little distance, so using s.jab will push you far enough to avoid their throw range? but you get added range for you're 360?
if anyone knows some better reasons for RC 360, please let me know.

also, does anyone kno how fast honda's 360 comes out in?(post the frame data plz thx)

here's another question that i'm hoping people can answer me since i either keep forgetting to test it out when i have console/stick access(which i don't often already).

if you do his hand slap and you're holding back, do you maintain charge? unlike blanka and his electricity making him lose charge.

cuz that's kind of messed up, do RC slaps, then wait a second, if they jump do headbutt, if they dont' do anyting, do RC headbutt anyways... :tup:

[Coutie]

Not sure entirely, but RC can help close distance (a teeny bit) or add additional frames as you said. Like other grabs, the 360 has a timed-out zone, where you can't grab if your opponent's in blocking motion. So, he might be doing that out of habbit to counter quick recovery. People using quick recovery might catch block frame so RC 360 might add enough frames to grab the opponent as he comes out of block. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Dasrik]

Now the truth can be told... Honda sucks in this game.

He can't be offensive at all without putting himself at risk. Sure, he's got low-jump roundhouse in SNK grooves, but that's just not enough.

Loss of safe sumo splash hurt him a LOT.

[Mr. Sparkle]

here are some thoughts on why he does RC 360(dunno if this has been discussed before):
-avoid "combo breakers" like psychic DP, which always means free damage if they whiff
-add a 1-3 frames to your 360 grab so if they try to jab you out of it, they'll jab nothing(frame data would help me out here)
-add a little distance, so using s.jab will push you far enough to avoid their throw range? but you get added range for you're 360?
if anyone knows some better reasons for RC 360, please let me know.
You mean when opponent is waking up? In SBO finals, Mago kept catching Rolento doing wakeup RC Pogos, I believe. You can clearly see Rolento startup his pogo before getting grabbed.

[b4k4]

Can anyone give me tips on RC'ing 360's?

Shit's hard.

:(

[Renegade]

Ummmm.... Honda's headbutt super is not safe at all, Bison can easily Mega Physcho Crusher him... so he must be around -8 or something.

[vasAZNion13]

Ummmm.... Honda's headbutt super is not safe at all, Bison can easily Mega Physcho Crusher him... so he must be around -8 or something.

are you sure your opponent is actually blocking and not trying to handslaps after blocked super?

[Renegade]

Yeah, i've retaliated against that super in a tournament before. Try it.

[WraithCo]

Repost from Google's cache:

E. Honda Moveset and Attributes

And once more from Majestros:

"Discuss the character's entire moveset here, including normal moves, special moves, super moves, and all the other miscellaneous stuff like counter attacks, rolls, dodge attacks, jumps, and throws.

Also list attributes such as dizzy count, lifebar points, character size and special hitbox properties."



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Frame Data:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Notation:
For projectiles, * indicates when a projectile is released. Note, sometimes i got lazy, listed projectiles as something like 14/26, assume projectile released on frame 15 in this case.
x/x/o refers to cancellability of a move, is it rapid fire move/special cancellable/super cancellable?
Moves with damage 1100, 1000 indicate damage varies according to when the move hits, like 1100 up close, 1000 far.
x,x/o,x/o,o refers to cancellability of moves, e.g. can cancel into special only on close hit, but cancels into super fine on either close or far hit.

Moves 1000+400, have a first hit of 1000, and 2nd hit of 400.
Cancellability written in the form: x+x/o+x/o+o, where the first symbol indicates cancellability of the 1st hit, and the second symbol indicates the cancellability of the second hit.
So the described move is not rapid fire on either hit, cancels into specials on only the first hit, and cancels into a super on either hit.

Note's on /'s and +'s and :'s
/'s indicate a change from startup/recovery to a hit, a + indicates more recovery, or in the case of hits, another hit becoming active immediately after the previous hit.
[edit] :'s now used for super startup, to match Buktooth's way of listing.
:'s separate the startup frames before and after the super flash freeze for supers.

Note, sometimes use your judgement when reading a move. Some moves that clearly don't hit, like athena's teleport, obviously don't hit. 17/12/14 refers to 17 frames of startup, 12 frames of teleporting, and 14 frames of recovery. Until I can get around to revising all my work and including full notes to all the moves that need'em, well use your own judgement.
Counters tend to be listed in the form 14/25 or 3/14/25
14/25 generally means the counter is active from frame 0, stays out for 14, has 25 frames of recovery.
3/14/25 counter has 3 frames of startup, counter active for 14, 25 frames of recovery if whiffed.

Examples:
for supers, 4:5/13/11 means 4 frames of startup before flash, 5 startup after flash, 13 active hit frames, 11 recovery.
4/5+3+3/13, means 4 frames startup, 5 active hit frames, followed immediately by next hit for 3 frames, followed immediately by next hit for 3 frames, then 13 frames of recovery.

Some air moves, stay active or keep recovering until they land. This is indicated writing land in a slot where there would be a number.
Example:
14/land/13.
Move has 14 frames of startup, hits till landing, 13 frames of recovery while landing.
14/5/land+13
Move has 14 frames of startup, 5 active hit frames, then is recovering till lands, then needs 13 more frames to recover.



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Frame Data:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

============
Normals:
============

All the ground ones have been posted on Justdefend.com
So instead, I'll simply add cancellability, as well as add a few notes.

-----------------
Close Standing:
-----------------
LP: x/o/o
MP: x/x/o
HP: x,x/x,x/o,x
LK: x/o/o
MK: x+x/o+x/o+x
RH: x+x/x+x/o+x

---------------
Far standing:
---------------
LP: x/o/o
MP: x/x/o
HP: x,x/x,x/o,x
LK: x/o/o
MK: x+x/x+x/o+o
RH: x+x/x+x/o+x


------------
Crouching:
------------
LP: x/o/o
MP: x/x/o
HP: x/x/o, downs on hit
LK: x/o/o
MK: x+x/x+x/o+o
RH: x/x/o, downs on hit

----------
Jumping:
----------

LP: 700
5/22
MP: 1100,1100
6/6
HP: 1600
7/6
LK: 600
4/22
MK: 1000
9/18
RH: 1400
10/10, straightup jump
RH: 1400
8/10, horizontal jump

Note: For the straight jumpup fierce, holding forward
or back seems to have an slight effect on the jump
trajetory. Think Balrog/M.Bison's jumping fierce.

---------
Throws:
---------
HP: 2000, 52 pixels
3/1/13
RH: 900+200*(2~15), 52 pixels
5/1/13

------------------
Command Move(s):
------------------
At Justdefend.com
E. Honda's command move, f+RH, is mistakenly listed as a Dhalsim command move. cancellability is x/x/x.
downs on hit, -10 on block, must be blocked and parried low.


==================
Special Moves:
==================

Hundred Hand Slap: Mash Px5
All versions:
Block mid.
Parry high.
Not airblockable.

LP: 500 damage per slap. +3/+3.
5/4/5/4/5/4..../14
MP: 400 damage per slap. +7/+7.
8/2/2/2/2/2.../14
HP: 400 damage per slap. +1/+1.
11/2/2/2/2/2.../20
Wake up nonjab RC handslap should be command throwable. Normal throws will likely fail for MP version.
6 frames of nonthrow + 3 frames of startup = 8 frames of startup + 1 frame of RC.
Risk reward not really in your favour.

HeadButt: Charge b, f+P
All versions:
Block mid.
parry high.
not airblockable when done deep.
Airborne frames for MP and HP versions not listed. Might be same as LP headbutt, unsure, but doubtful.
At any rate, wakeup RC headbutt should be throwable by command throws, but normal throwing will likely fail
if they wake up with RC fierce headbutt. They'll hit on frame 9 or 10, your throw comes out on 10 if perfectly timed.
Not likely = fail.

LP: 1600,1400,1100. down/-9.
10/19/28
Invincibility: 5 frames of fullbody, 7 of above the knees.
Airborne from 16-41.
MP: 1600,1400. down/-10
12/19/28
Invincibility: 4 frames of fullbody, 8 of above the knees.
HP: 1700,1600. down/-9.
7/37/28
Invincibility: 2 frames of fullbody, 5 above the knees.

Notes: Clearly the jab version is the best antiair. Its the only one which
starts hitting before the invincibility above the knees runs out.
Since the invincibility is only above the knees, you lose to stuff like
electricity if you don't RC. So don't try headbutting pikachu blanka on your head
without RC.

Ooichou Nage: 360+P
All versions:
3/1/13

LP: 2000, 58 pixel reach
MP: 2100, 57 pixel reach
HP: 2200, 56 pixel reach


ButtDrop: Charge d, u+K
All versions:
Initial hit can be blocked mid, second hit must be blocked high.
Parry high.
Airblockable.

LK: 1200, 1300. down/-2
21/7/14/8/14
Invincibility: 21 frames of fullbody
airborne: 22-50
MK: 1300, 1400. down/-4
19/7/14/10/14
airborne: 20-50
Invincibility: 19 frames of fullbody
RH: 1500, 1500 down/-7
42/13/14
Invincibility: 19 frames of fullbody
airborne: 20-55

Notes:
-Only short/forward buttdrops hit on the way up.
Possible usage as a ghetto antiair, but headbutt is pretty much
better in every situation. Either hit of the drop knocks down,
so this isn't like ST where both hits could connect.
-Somehow, the butt drop is less safe than the
frame data suggests. Remember, most moves that go airborne
and come down to strike, like Kyo's R.E.D. kick, the +/-
frame advantage is somewhat variable, so these numbers
are not what you get if you hit as early as possible I believe.


===========
Supers:
===========

Onimusou(Headbutt Super): Charge b, f, b, f+P
All versions:
Block mid.
Parry high.
Not airblockable.
NOT airborne at all. Pointed out in Maj/Jchensor's
Ode to the 2 hit combo transcript.

Lvl 1: 3000, down/+4
5:4/3+25/13/15/35
Invincibility: 9 fullbody
Lvl 2: 4300, down/+6
5:4/2+2+43/14/15/20/15/33
Invincibility: 15 fullbody
Lvl 3: 5800, down/+2
5:4/1+1+45/14/15/23/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/20
Invincibility: 23 fullbody

Orochi Kutaki(Grab super): 720+P
Lvl 3: 6600, 58 pixel reach
4:2/1/13
Invincibility: 19 fullbody

[starkilled]

cuz that's kind of messed up, do RC slaps, then wait a second, if they jump do headbutt, if they dont' do anyting, do RC headbutt anyways... :tup:

Careful with headbutts in general with vega for some reason after every blocked headbutt against vega, my opponent would punish it with crouching med punch,

[Dasrik]

Yeah, Vega (matador) can punish blocked headbutts. He's an asshole.

[Gnawsa]

Got a question. been using Honda just recently and... what do you do when the opponent starts Crossing you up after they trip you? i lose my charge so sometimes i feel like a sitting duck out there.

[Shin-Chan]

well, in some situations u could try reverse headbutt. I like to RC360, s.hp. RC Slaps works good too....

and if it's a meaty crossup, sometimes worth doing his d,u+k shit =).

IF u don't have roll u may be in K or P, so just use parry/just defence.

[Gnawsa]

yea i use him in C as a r2. guess it is essential to master the RC with him ( was afraid of that). i might be scrubby and do the d,u+k shit your talking about. thanks yo.

[GREEK]

stop it fatty.dumb dumb, daboo, zug zug.thats what fatness is all about

[Utsusemi]

stop it fatty.dumb dumb, daboo, zug zug.thats what fatness is all about

...huh?

[Shin-Chan]

One thing I started to use is RC 360 as Anti Air.

It's not thaaaat perfect u know, but vs qick chars like claw and blanka can instantly grab if sdone right, and the others with normal speed jump, u can or double RC 360 (actually the second teorically don't need to be RC) or RC 360 then c.rh/s.hp.... It works great vs crossup.

And yeah Gnawsa, Honda really need to master RC with him.... but when u do becomes pretty fun u know XD

[Gnawsa]

One thing I started to use is RC 360 as Anti Air.

It's not thaaaat perfect u know, but vs qick chars like claw and blanka can instantly grab if sdone right, and the others with normal speed jump, u can or double RC 360 (actually the second teorically don't need to be RC) or RC 360 then c.rh/s.hp.... It works great vs crossup.

And yeah Gnawsa, Honda really need to master RC with him.... but when u do becomes pretty fun u know XD

woah rc 360 command grab as an anti-air? you have any footage of this..seems really hard to do...:xeye: also seems kinda impractical since the fatman already has good anti-airs already (i.e. jab headbutt, s.Fierce). does seem really good for cross-ups though. i'll prolly be using that often since my honda is terrible.

[Shin-Chan]

woah rc 360 command grab as an anti-air? you have any footage of this..seems really hard to do...:xeye: also seems kinda impractical since the fatman already has good anti-airs already (i.e. jab headbutt, s.Fierce). does seem really good for cross-ups though. i'll prolly be using that often since my honda is terrible.

oh, actually I don't hav annything taped of that.... cause I did that a lot on arcades... but it is not impratical, its really easy when u get used to RC 360. course, do vs claw on reaction is a little hard. but vs blanka works ok.... Iori, Yun..


I have some footage of counterpoking RC360 I guess... but this is not something new to u I supose...

oh.... and u sayd u would prefere his normals... when u r wight in many ways, but the grab advanted is that is a setup for ur mixups right? and does more damage =)..... and I like to use too s.hk, works relaly great, specially vs K-groove.

[Gnawsa]

oh, actually I don't hav annything taped of that.... cause I did that a lot on arcades... but it is not impratical, its really easy when u get used to RC 360. course, do vs claw on reaction is a little hard. but vs blanka works ok.... Iori, Yun..


I have some footage of counterpoking RC360 I guess... but this is not something new to u I suppose...


you're talking about their jump-in's right? what kind of mix-up's do you do from there? i never really use rc 360's like that.

oh.... and u sayd u would prefere his normals... when u r wight in many ways, but the grab advanted is that is a setup for ur mixups right? and does more damage =)..... and I like to use too s.hk, works relaly great, specially vs K-groove.

My Raiden is decent but my honda is scrubby. i just try and have a solid turtle with him. i dont really do mind games with him...after i knock them down with a head-butt i sometimes whiff a jab into rc 360 when they wake up. i do hop into rc360's also...seems to work when they tend to just sit there because they are too scared to throw something and getting counterhit by rc something. . .