Kyo Strategies and Match ups [Archive]

Inigma

07-02-2004, 03:56 PM

Q's about the Vega match-up:

I know that Kyo needs (Or should) stay in the opponents face to get the most out of his game... But it is very difficult to establish this range against a good Vega player... One thing I am wondering is how to deal with playing at the range of his low strong trying to get in?? I have found that at that range a low jump fierce stuffs most of his anti air options from that range (Low fierce and stand roundhouse) not sure about the slide though... But just relying on just that will only get you so far...

I guess what I am trying to get at is what do you do to try to get into that range? Any bait tactics to look for or do? What is the attack you should look out for and what attack you should be ready to use? Or maybe what is the general idea you should be thinking about?

Side Note: I just saw a vid of A-Kyo vs. A-Bison and he blocked a one hit scissor (From a crouch position) and he hit him back with stand strong into combo... I am sure it looked like he was in the recovery of the kicks but then again it is hard to judge on vids... Can anyone confirm this?? I thought they were unpunishable by Kyo or at the very least highly difficult...

Thanks in advance for any replies

Buktooth

07-28-2004, 04:01 PM

More Uses For Kyo's Moves:

-rdp+k:
This move is actually really useful defensively. It's off the ground on the first frame, meaning it can't be thrown and will go over low shorts and stuff. If he gets hit out of it on the way up, he was airborne and nothing particularly threatening happens. Use it as a safe(r) way to get out of throw/low short mix ups rather than DPing.

Another use is after a low jump attack done too high. Let's say you low jump fierce early on Sagat. Sagat blocks and is most likely going to hit you for free when you land with a low short combo. You cancel your low jump recovery into the rdp+k, which again is off the ground on the first frame. It goes over Sagat's low short and kicks him in the head, getting you the knockdown and mix up.

-fierce rekkas:
aside from their obvious use in combos or RCs, they also do a grip of chip damage and guard bar in a pinch. The whole string does 400 points of chip damage, well more than enough to chip anybody to death without having to worry about the feared "magic pixel". In fact, you can safely chip somebody to death that has about 2 pixels of life left for free with this.

The fierce rekkas also does FAR more guard bar damage than a DP, making it so Kyo can guard break somebody whose guard bar isn't even flashing yet, and also from at around his low strong range (as opposed to having to be point blank like with DP guard breaks).

-qcf+short, short:
Believe it or not, if the second kick is blocked Kyo is not only safe, but has a fairly hefty frame advantage afterwards. You can use it to get in from more than half-screen away on those pesky players who like to jiggle and wait for whiffs, since they'll walk back and block it standing. However, most characters that are shorter than Sagat can crouch the 2nd hit and put the hurt on Kyo. Seem risky? Yeah, it does to me too. I saw Makoto getting away with it a LOT though. It also seems fairly abusable against Sagat-height characters.

-standing forward:
While it might be fairly meh as a regular anti-air, it works surprisingly well as an anti-cross up, covering Kyo's weak area directly above his head very well.

-low fierce:
another anti-air that is lackluster but works surprisingly well in a given situation. This move works well on low jumps, cleanly beating even Vega's low jump roundhouse (!). It did trade at times, but I don't think I ever saw it get cleanly beat.

Yagami

08-04-2004, 08:48 AM

Good shit. :D

Masataka

08-08-2004, 02:09 AM

I recently started playing against Yama players, and at first I had a hell of a lotta trouble. I think it's a fairly bad matchup but here are a few things I learned though..

1) If he has a lvl 2 or 3 super on hand, and he use j.lk or lj.lk, jump back or low jump up after the block. At worst, you'll eat a snake arm, but there's a good chance that his throw super is coming.

2) Once you get the knockdown, do not let up. If they're going to get out, they're going to use a super, so u can try to bait it out. However, if instead they use s.hp xx sand xx saa to get out, it's gonna be a lotta work to get in again.

3) Know the range of s.hk, it's probably his easiest move to punish. So far, the best punisher I hav is s.hk xx lvl 3 cloud but if someone knows a better one, please post.

The whole match will be a lot of baiting and punishing big whiffs. I try to bait a s.hk and super jump in for the cross up if possible, but it's hard. I generally jump a lot the match too, since it's not too hard to jd his snake arms (hear saaa tap back in air). If anybody has any more advice, I'd like them :)

p0l1cy

08-09-2004, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by Masataka
Yamazaki Yeah, a good basic strategy is to stay as close as possible and make him screw up somehow. It can be really hard to get in, but I'm even more afraid when he comes looking for me! It's sooo easy to hit with his supers, definitely a scary opponent.

Kyo, however, can cleanly stuff both his supers if he tries to wake up with them. If you bait out a wake up level 3, just do a level 3 wave super to stuff it. If he Guillotines, he'll jump right into the fire, and if he Drills, well you can't be grabbed out of a level 3 so he gets burned in that case too.

Masataka

08-10-2004, 12:41 AM

I don't think it's safe to try to punish a wakeup level 3 w/ a level 3 cloud super, unless your opponent is SUPER predictable. If you made a mistake, and they didn't do it, it's a free combo into super for them.

Question about Sagat. My general strategy is to run in and mix him up to death but a few problems I run into. First, his high tiger shot usually stops me dead in my tracks cuz it's hard to low jump over since I'm usually running. If I jab into just defend or duck, i'm not getting any closer. If I jump or super jump, i'm eating a tiger uppercut. When I finally almost get to attacking distance, c.hp comes out and makes it hard for me to attack to. I can guess a lot what attacks are coming out but sometimes I get outwitted and eat tiger uppercut and way too many c.hp's. Any tips on getting in/counters for his c.hp?

Mickey D'

08-21-2004, 09:44 PM

Kyo vs Blanka

I find that fighting Blanka can be extremely difficult. I find it very hard to get in on Blanka mainly because of his reach. It's very hard for my Kyo to create situations where I can capitalize. Whenever Kyo tries to get in on Blanka, Blanka rebuttles with a nasty c.hp :mad:

You guys got any tips for me cuz I'm stuck when it comes to a nicely played Blanka.
--------

Random things I have figured out:

- After a blocked blanka ball, do: qcf mp, qcf mp, k. This is (from what I've experimented on) the only way that Kyo can hurt Blanka over a blocked blanka ball.

- Kyo's down forward+kick doesn't seems quite reliable on getting in on Blanka when he's just sitting their for time to run out.

ragnafrak

08-22-2004, 07:11 AM

kcxj/kamui, can either of you give some data on far/close s.HP? i've been trying it out as anti-air from far instead of s.MK. it seems to hit really meaty.

eightysix

08-23-2004, 12:14 PM

Here's some random crap I found out the other day. After a JD'ed Sonic Boom, try putting out a c.MK. It'll either totally stuff Guile's s.HK or trade with his c.MK. I've gotten Kyo's c.MK to stuff Guile's c.MK a few times, but it has to be really fast.

eightysix

08-23-2004, 12:22 PM

R | C

08-30-2004, 02:29 PM

I've read several threads that talk about p-kyo being a mid/top tier character, but I haven't figured out what makes him so good in p-groove? I know he has a bunch of offensive attacks that get people dizzy, and a lot of mind games set up...but still...

Anyone?

epsilon_

08-30-2004, 04:02 PM

R | C

08-31-2004, 09:42 AM

The main reason Kyo is good in P is because he has really damaging normal combos, and add that to that fact that each combo can send you to the corner to be pressured, he becomes pretty scary with parry. Also he has lowjump, and you're almost forced to just bock his c.shorts once the p player starts option select down parrying them.

do you have any specific examples of why kyo is so good in p? 'cause his "really damaging normal combos" and lowjump is also available in other grooves. and about option selecting...what specifically makes HIM so good, 'cause anyone in p has it. other characters in p have damaging combos after parrying like iori's rekkas, or ken's face kick, or yamazaki's chian attacks, but that doesn't make them mid/top tier.

epsilon_

08-31-2004, 12:09 PM

Iori needs rc, and Yama is better in other grooves Ioris Rekka combos barely do like any stun, and Yama's BNB doesn't knock down, AND is punsihable by fast supers. I just told you, for Kyo Parries lead into HUGE damage (parry, c.mp, mk juggle kicks, dp HK) youre in the corner now, and lost 1/4 life, and you're about 1/2 stunned, Yamazaki and Iori can't do that. And yeah kyo has low jump in other grooves, but he doesnt need the other things that come with them (he doesnt need like anything in N groove but Low jump, s-kyo sucks(and don't tell me omg he doesn't because he does))K and P just really suit Kyo.

R | C

08-31-2004, 03:05 PM

ookayy...

ragnafrak

09-02-2004, 12:40 AM

kyo's best grooves are definitely P/K,A,C,N/S

because:

a) all his combos start with either light attacks (bnb, linked into MP xx rekkas) or an up close attack (big punish, linked into launching kicks), neither are practical to finish with a level 1 super (qcf,qcf+P has shitty range, less damage than a launching kicks juggle, and lvl1 qcb,hcf+P won't combo off any of his starters).

b) launching kicks -> flame super from anywhere on the screen does more damage than any combo into qcf,qcf+P (no matter what level), and at midscreen, kyo has huge damage combos off of launching kicks (launching kicks -> dp+MK -> flame super -> otg hit)

so.. level 1 supers are useless for kyo, his alpha counter is unsafe, his roll is too shitty to punish anything. P/K is definitely his best, he's good with dash OR run, low jump is butter for him, and A and C grooves are just worth mention for their huge damage potential.

but i'm just a scrub, don't listen to me. (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69832)

edit: oops for asking again on s.HP.. that seems good anyway, it seems to work like bison's AA s.HP

i would guess now that c.HP is 4 frames, it seems as easy to link as a MP after c.LK/c.LP/c.MP.. how's c.LK, c.LP, c.HP xx MP/HP rekkas sound for practicality, c.HP has more range than c.MP but less than far s.MP from my testing

Hellion

09-05-2004, 05:42 PM

I have trouble dealing with Zangief.
Playing A-Kyo against RC C-Zangief.
The guy's played against my Kyo long enough to know what his mixups are, and almost all of them can be punished by the SPD in my experience. I'm almost always forced to play footsies against Gief, unless I land a good d.LK leading to a custom

ragnafrak

09-05-2004, 11:11 PM

don't try anything on wakeup if he knows your mixups, he can RC lariat/SPD through any thing you try. i would try whiffing a c.MP over him and then backdashing so he tries an RC, then punish with far s.MP xx rekkas/LK launch kicks. gief can also catch you out of activation with either super so chill at a good distance, i would stay inside his fierce range and zone with c.MP, far s.LK, far s.HK, and df+HK. try on baiting all his RCs on the ground, as none of them are safe if whiffed.

edit: gief's huge hitbox gives kyo even more damage on his rekka combos:
c.LK, c.LP, c.LK, far s.MP xx rekkas
c.LK, c.MP, far s.MP xx rekkas
c.MP, c.HP xx rekkas

his s.HP and s.MK also land on gief, s.MK seems to have a little invincibility on his foot.

GC strings:
c.LK, c.LP, c.LK, c.MP, df+HK/c.MK
c.LK, c.MP, c.MP, df+HK/c.MK
c.LK, c.LP, c.HP xx qcf+HP,hcb+P -> mixup

gief should get GCed fast, kyo owns him on the ground if he can't psychic lariat you 100% of the time

if he whiffs (or you block the first hit of kick version) either lariat, combo him starting with c.LK (c.MP will miss against punch lariat RCed or not, but mashed c.LKs will punish either version)

ragnafrak

09-06-2004, 10:23 AM

go under with df+HK, otherwise i dunno.. it outranges far s.HK

low jumping straight up and d+HP could hit his limb, i know that kick stays out for forever

eightysix

09-21-2004, 11:09 PM

So, who here actually lands the counter-hit walk up c.LKs? Most of the time, I just getted smacked back for even walking forward. Then I hit myself on the head for not empty small-jumping instead. Any tips on how to get it to work?

epsilon_

09-22-2004, 02:06 AM

Do them after a knockdown. Like sweep, meaty c.short, walk up c.short x2(counter hit), s.mp xx rekkas.

eightysix

09-22-2004, 11:33 AM

Do them after a knockdown. Like sweep, meaty c.short, walk up c.short x2(counter hit), s.mp xx rekkas.

Well obviously you do it after a knockdown. It's weird because I just keep getting jabbed at anyways when I have like +6 after the meaty c.LK. Eh, my timing is probably just off. Oh, and is it possible for the meaty c.LK to beat out DP wakeups if timed right?

epsilon_

09-22-2004, 12:30 PM

No, this isn't 3s haha. Fully invince dps ALWAYS beat meaties. Btw you have even more than +6 off the short, because it's meaty. Idk how many hit frames the short has though, but even if you messup you should usually have +7 at least. Just work on your timing, and if they mash, start using meaty c.mp/s.mp on em. After 1 or two c.mp xx juggle kicks, dp hk or c.mp x2 xx rekkas, they'll probably stop mashing.

eightysix

09-22-2004, 02:24 PM

No, this isn't 3s haha. Fully invince dps ALWAYS beat meaties.

Hahaha, I thought so. I could have sworn I've seen Makoto counter-hit a DP before. Oh well, the other guy probably tried to jab him or something on wake-up.

Btw you have even more than +6 off the short, because it's meaty. Idk how many hit frames the short has though, but even if you messup you should usually have +7 at least. Just work on your timing, and if they mash, start using meaty c.mp/s.mp on em. After 1 or two c.mp xx juggle kicks, dp hk or c.mp x2 xx rekkas, they'll probably stop mashing.

I've been thrown out of a meaty c.LK before by people I play. Then I start thinking to myself, "Wtf, this ain't ST!" :rofl:

Exactly the info I'm looking for. I keep forgetting about the meaty s.MP mixup since Kyo has too many in his arsenal as it is. Good to know there are still some reliable people who give out good info on SRK. :tup:

ragnafrak

09-22-2004, 05:10 PM

meaty tip of c.MP is better for real, link far s.HK (counterhit) or rekkas (any hit, or HP rekkas for GC)

eightysix

09-22-2004, 09:25 PM

meaty tip of c.MP is better for real, link far s.HK (counterhit) or rekkas (any hit, or HP rekkas for GC)

I've linked a sweep on a counter-hit c.MP before. I got a wtf look from the other guy. :rofl:

Honestly though, I'd say s.MP is better because it's much more meaty and you can tag ANOTHER c.MP after it into rekkas.

epsilon_

09-23-2004, 03:25 AM

Yeah, also when you start training them to start blocking c.shorts, the fun REALLY begins. They wake up you throw. Whiff c.short, throw. Tick meaty c.short, throw. c.short wait, c.short, c.mp xx rekkas.

eightysix

10-29-2004, 07:23 PM

Vs. Sakura

Uh, found this out totally by accident (which is like 90% of how I figure shit out), but against Sak's whiffed s.HK, Kyo can s.LP it back a lot how you can jab Blanka after a whiffed c.HP.

I know some of you are going to complain because it doesn't do enough damage, but is that what really matters here? Just let the Sak player know that whoring s.HK won't work all the time. And if they try and get smart by trying to walk into range, press your s.HK with Kyo as quick as you can and you'll hit her for free. Reset, avoid random RCs, get knockdowns and don't get hit by shosho. GGPO.

I <3 theory fighter. :encore: :rofl:

WindyMan

10-31-2004, 12:51 AM

First, the frame data.

:df::hk:
400+800 damage
+0/+0
11/[4]/8/[4]/20
First hit must be blocked low
Second hit can be blocked high

This move is awesome for a lot of reasons. Here's my strategy list and setups for it.

When you land the move, hit or blocked (doesn't matter since the frame advantage is the same, zero), it's not a bad idea to pull the move again immediately. They'll be forced to take it or block it again, giving you the same situation as before. Perform the move again or go for mixups.

The startup is 11 frames. The startup seems like a lot, but since the move is completely safe if it hits because of the zero frame advantage, the only way you can be screwed by using it is if they hit you out of it before it comes. If you mix up when you use the move, this is almost impossible.

If you step back a bit before you do the move, the first hit will whiff and the second hit will land. This gives your opponent 23 frames to react to the movement, which is enough to pull off a anticipitory shoruyken or other quick invincible move on confirmation of movement. However, the first motion of the move looks a hell of a lot like Kyo's :d::mk:.

:d::mk:
900 damage
-5/-5
7/[9]/16

After taking the step back, do the :d::mk: instead. If they attempt to hit you out of the second hit, they'll whiff and you'll have an chance at a free combo. If they sit there blocking, it's a message for them not to try anything as you slide in.

If they try to jump over the :df::hk: as you start it, you will find the arc of their jump and the travel of your move will put you in the pefect position to :bdp::hp: them as they float over you to the other side. You will be under most crossups, and since the dp move has lots of invincibilty, it'll cut through all that crossup priority, too. This doesn't work as well with tall-jumping characters, but more with the shoto-type jumpers.

If you want to keep them on the ground for sure, pull out the old far standing roundhouse, :hk:. 7 frame startup means they're not going to jump, and if they do, you'll hit them. Also try the :d::mk: at close range (also 7 frame startup) to give them double worries about not holding down and back. (Jump start up on the PNK grooves is 6 frames, to account for small jump.)

This move makes it really easy to incorporate into your guard crush strings. After a rekka chain, if you can put in some crouching shorts, then link it into the kick slide, it's free GC damage. Continue with the mixups and you'll easily cut half their gauge. Activate in N-Groove for even more damage.

It's one of Kyo's best abuseable moves. Take care not to over-abuse it, of course. Incorporate it into your game as with any other move.

Legendary Gokou

11-02-2004, 01:59 PM

Mickey D'

01-02-2005, 06:44 PM

WindyMan

01-03-2005, 09:23 PM

So I was at a tournament the other day, and this guy kept on doing:

c.lk, c.mp, qcf lp x2....(stop) I try and hit him, he counter hits me with c.lk into combo.

So whats the deal? I tried to punish him. Is there an advantage after the 2nd rekka? I tried to throw him, tried to c.lk/c.lp him after he stopped but it just didn't work!

Can someone break the frames down for me?

If you blocked the (first and) second rekka, he's at a -11 (dis)advantage, so you should be safe to sweep at the very least.

If he hit you, on the other hand, he's at -2, which leads to favorable mixup opportunities for him. The only thing you can do in this situation is to block or pray for a perfect timing 2-frame startup close standing jab to trade (if you're close enough), which is not worth the risk.

An attack chain I love to do with Kyo is if the rekka combo hits, I stop after the second and start it again with the c.lk, c.mp rekka chain again. If they try anything to punish it, they'll eat the chain again. I stop this second chain at the second hit again, which causes the other guy to freeze, which leads to a free kick throw and wakeup mixup.

The nice thing about this is that any time after the first time you try it, they're likely to turtle up as the second hit connects. Instead of finishing off the successful combo with the kick or a risky overhead, just stop and throw them first thing. At worst, they'll tech out of it (or you'll tech out of their throw, if you're trying overheads, which can be thrown out of).

RagingStormX

02-19-2005, 11:52 AM

If you blocked the (first and) second rekka, he's at a -11 (dis)advantage, so you should be safe to sweep at the very least.

If he hit you, on the other hand, he's at -2, which leads to favorable mixup opportunities for him. The only thing you can do in this situation is to block or pray for a perfect timing 2-frame startup close standing jab to trade (if you're close enough), which is not worth the risk.

An attack chain I love to do with Kyo is if the rekka combo hits, I stop after the second and start it again with the c.lk, c.mp rekka chain again. If they try anything to punish it, they'll eat the chain again. I stop this second chain at the second hit again, which causes the other guy to freeze, which leads to a free kick throw and wakeup mixup.

The nice thing about this is that any time after the first time you try it, they're likely to turtle up as the second hit connects. Instead of finishing off the successful combo with the kick or a risky overhead, just stop and throw them first thing. At worst, they'll tech out of it (or you'll tech out of their throw, if you're trying overheads, which can be thrown out of).

Check the frame data again. Jab rekka's first hit is at -5, mp first hit is -10, fp version is -11. Second hit for lp and mp is -2 hit, -11 blocked, fp version is +1 hit, -8 blocked. The first hit of the jab rekka is as safe as Iori's, so that is the one you should use if your opponent is blocking. I can only RC the mp/hp rekkas though, If I try to RC the lp version, I get the double kicks. If your rekkakens are hitting, I don't see why you wouldn't finish the combo, it sets up an ambiguous roll cross-up and you get the knock down. The only time you should be doing that is if you go for the counter hit rekka if you first one gets blocked.

RagingStormX

02-19-2005, 12:12 PM

I've linked a sweep on a counter-hit c.MP before. I got a wtf look from the other guy. :rofl:

Honestly though, I'd say s.MP is better because it's much more meaty and you can tag ANOTHER c.MP after it into rekkas.

s.mp is overrated. You can get as much frame advantage as s.mp off off c.mp. Difference is, if you mess up the meaty you are at +6 always. If you mess up the meaty with s.mp, you are at +/- 0. Regular c.mp lets you link a c.mp.

epsilon_

02-19-2005, 09:15 PM

crouching medium punch can be parried high or low, as opposed to standing medium punch which must be parried high.

WindyMan

02-20-2005, 11:51 AM

Check the frame data again. Jab rekka's first hit is at -5, mp first hit is -10, fp version is -11. Second hit for lp and mp is -2 hit, -11 blocked, fp version is +1 hit, -8 blocked.

Well, he did say qcf+mp x2, meaning he was talking about the second hit in the rekka chain, for which my numbers are right (http://www.finestko.com/features/characters/kyo/#specials).

In either case, you are about 90% safe with the first hit of the LP rekka. The further away you are when you connect, the safer you are. People with stupid fast sweeps can tag you out of it, but generally you're good to abuse it.

crouching medium punch can be parried high or low, as opposed to standing medium punch which must be parried high.

Standing strong also does 100 more damage and reaches farther. It's just to thing to punish Bison Scissor Kicks.

RagingStormX

02-21-2005, 02:04 PM

Well, he did say qcf+mp x2, meaning he was talking about the second hit in the rekka chain, for which my numbers are right (http://www.finestko.com/features/characters/kyo/#specials).

In either case, you are about 90% safe with the first hit of the LP rekka. The further away you are when you connect, the safer you are. People with stupid fast sweeps can tag you out of it, but generally you're good to abuse it.

Standing strong also does 100 more damage and reaches farther. It's just to thing to punish Bison Scissor Kicks.

My bad, I thought you were also refering to the first and second hit of the rekkas in general, thats how it sounded. I was just saying -11 for the first hit was incorrect, but you didn't mean it for that. Not only is s.mp longer, it's just as fast being 4 frames. But I swear I blocked a 2-hit knee press and I was out of range to use it, I got CC'd and died, lol. Sometimes you are so far away after a blocked rekka, the opponent can't do anything except lvl3. See how far away you are if Sagat blocks c.mp, c.lk, s.mp xx qcf+mp.

Legendary Gokou

02-27-2005, 08:36 PM

This is kind of a random post, but .....

Look for counter hit cr mp. If its counter hit, you can easily link st rh xx level 2 or 3 cloud super. Really good damage, especially with C groove.

Hellion

12-21-2005, 11:03 AM

The timing on far s.MP xx qcf+LP is very strict on punishing Bison's scissor kicks. I know just about the best way to hit is block standing, dunno about blocking late or early. Seems easier to block then let it go to neutral and hit MP. On occasion I've landed d.MP by accident, has to do mostly how I buffer the motions in during the animations of MP. Probably doing the down motion as soon as I hit the button.
There's no mashing at all on that technique, and window of opportunity is very small.

Will JD'ing the first of the two hits help in this, or must you always JD the last hit to get that extra edge?

What are key things to watch against when fighting Bison?

His Slide, RC Scissor kicks... When he's up close his BnB (I'm guessing it's d.LPx2, d.LK xx LK Scissor Kicks) How fast are his jabs, about the same as Kyo's shorts?
I heard his air-to-air is good, with j.HK...

I would imagine once Kyo gets the knockdown the game would be slightly in favor of him short of random activate slides or somesuch to beat his meaty attacks. Maybe activate slide isnt' the best option vs Kyo's d.LK, I dunno. How fast does slide come out?
In such cases it's almost a guessing game for both players wouldn't you say?

Hellion

12-21-2005, 07:50 PM

Who has the upper hand on knockdown situations here?
I just skimmed some later Blanka threads and it looks as if A-Blanka can fuck up Kyo's game a good deal.

I don't know what the proper response for blocked RC Electricities, but my first instinct would be to d.MP xx lift kicks, etc. It's kinda easy to see RC electricity coming because it almost looks like he tries to get as damned close as possible to you. (It's a hella lot easier for me to JD all hits of that BS compared to JD'ing the measly 3 hits of Kaiser Wave. Gotta JD faster for that one)

Problem is whiffed RC Electricity, throw, getting you to block without actually blocking and then throwing your ass. In addition to his short jump crossups to BnB's.

It's like Blanka becomes just as dangerous as Kyo point blank.
Doesn't have the kickthrow, but he doesn't need it because in the end he's top tier.

Besides it looks like the kickthrow is too slow for up close and personal bouts with Blanka. Punch throw would be more ideal there.

kcxj

12-22-2005, 04:58 AM

The biggest thing I keep in mind when playing Kyo vs Blanka is to go easy on the d/f+HK moves. Blanka is a jump happy character and I'm going to eat falling j.HK combos all day and get dizzy if I brainlessly stick out my d/f+HK move like I spam it against other characters.

Blanka d.HP limb can be whiff punished from far away with Kyo's far s.HK or d.HK.

Random rdp+LK move also has priority over Blanka's extended limbs, and Kyo gets the knockdown too.

DON'T let Blanka cross you up. Kyo's dp+HP sucks in that it has a bad habit of going under jump-ins when you're not careful about your distancing. Since Blanka has a nasty jumping crossup attack with his j.MK, ALWAYS be ready to hit your Kyo close s.MK or jump back fierce.

Blanka can mash on close s.HK to cleanly go over your low shorts. Don't stop using d.LK altogether (as that move must be blocked low so it's still good), but consider using d.LP to fish for counter hits or attack out of option select situations every now and then.

Kyo d.MP beats the slide. So hit d.MP a lot when you're not actively doing something.

Kyo far s.HK has very high priority over Blanka's common ground attacks. Use it to go over d.LK, d.MK, and d.HK. You can stuff d.HP's cleanly as they come out too.

-----

It doesn't matter how slow the throw is. When the opponent guesses block, he's going to get thrown no matter what. You set up the opponent to want to block by going for counter hits low jabs repeatedly on him.

One of Kyo's biggest damage openings is off his option select throw/low jab actually. Get point blank and make it totally look like you want to go for "block low for a split second, kick throw." Only instead of doing kick throw, wait your split second and then do low jab instead. At point blank range, Kyo's d.LP has superior priority over Blanka's slower low short, so use it!

Kyo can also do d.LP, kick throw perfectly and it leaves the opponent in the ideal wakeup situation for you to mix him up. Throw him again! :rofl:

The only time I ever go for the punch throw is when I want to grab a wakeup RC elec. Even in that instance, I think I might be able to grab with the kick throw also if I practiced the timing enough.

Although this probably doesn't even apply here because command grabs are different than regular grabs, know that Buktooth is really awesome at grabbing wake-up RC elec with his Iori command grab (which is even slower than Kyo's kick throw) in case you're still worried about throw speed.

-----

I hope I didn't misinterpret your post (sorry if I did), but anyway...

RC elec gives Blanka +10 on the block (you knew that right?). When Blanka times his follow up d.HK right (within a three frame window), you can let go of the stick and still be stuck in block stun.

Most Blanka's don't do that though. They hit their d.HK so there's a gap for you to mash on something (like the d.MP I think you're talking about), and you get counter hit and forced to block RC elec again as you get up.

Whenever I block RC elec, I either...

1. Continue blocking and look to see if Blanka does anything other than d.HK

or

2. dp+LP against Blanka's limb when he tries to follow up . (won't work if he linked his d.HK within three frame window)

I never try to jump away or let go of my low block, and I certainly never try to hit Blanka with a d.MP after blocking HP elec though. Am I even in range for d.MP after blocking anyway?

=========

Fighitng against RC electricity:

If Blanka whiffs RC elec, you get a FREE far s.MP xx punch chain combo if you're in range.

If Blanka is mashing on his elec after whiffing, you get a free dp+HP.

If Blanka whiffs RC elec at your max far s.HK range, do Kyo far s.HK xx cloud super (counters Blanka clean even if he mashes).

I bet you could do max range d.MP xx up kicks on Blanka mashing elec too since there's an invincible hitbox at the tip of Kyo's first. I didn't test it, but I have a feeling the MK upkicks won't reach though...

----

I don't mess with trying to guess throw or dp against Blanka doing meaty RC elec on me. I just block and let him chip me as I get up because the chip damage is less than guessing wrong and eating counter hit HP elec damage (and get knocked down again) anyway.

The only thing I keep my eye open for is when Blanka goes for whiff RC elec, throw gimmick. In that case, I immediately attempt to counter his throw with a d.LP combo.

You can do the same thing with K-groove JD by tapping d/b for a split second as you get up, immediately hit d.LP afterwards to do option select JD RC elec/throw counter.

ragnafrak

12-22-2005, 11:20 AM

crouching medium punch can be parried high or low, as opposed to standing medium punch which must be parried high.
I'll remember that for the next time I play against P-groove. Why don't you just post and say "blah, blah, blah.. blah blah... blah"

as for kyo vs blanka.. this match sucks, because (as kang said) blanka can mash s.HK and beat your low short game.. I like to stick to c.MP/close s.HK up close against blanka.. since it will either trade with low shorts or beat his s.HK clean if he decides to be a bitch.. walking out of close s.HK range to get far s.HK is of course great since it will beat almost all of his normals. c.MP can be good against c.HP if you time it well. whiffing c.MPs at his max c.HP range is good, buffer qcf+HP and if it counterhits you can connect a HP rekka chain. i don't like trying to AA blanka, because his fast jumps/crossups can get you whiffing dp+HP, and close s.MK seems to get beat by j.HK randomly, i would stick to jump back HP/MP/LP

against blanka balls (this is where P/K-kyo shines):
- block low/high reversal qcf+MP (hits blanka out of the air)
- block low/high mistimed qcf+MP (either gets you blocked rekka, which is safe, or a full rekka chain)
- block low/high reversal RC qcf+MP (guaranteed rekka chain)
- block low/high mistimed RC qcf+MP (might not be as safe, but if this happens you have a better situation if he does RC ball, RC ball)

If Blanka is mashing on his elec after whiffing, you get a free dp+HP.this makes kyo the best character at uppercutting mashed electricities.. this shit has crazy range..

epsilon_

12-22-2005, 11:26 AM

what? lol. thats pretty useful against p groove.

Hellion

12-22-2005, 04:09 PM

Although this probably doesn't even apply here because command grabs are different than regular grabs, know that Buktooth is really awesome at grabbing wake-up RC elec with his Iori command grab (which is even slower than Kyo's kick throw) in case you're still worried about throw speed.

Whoa. That must have something to do with the 7 frame "can't throw me on wakeup" thing and the timing on Iori's 8 frame startup scum gale...
Add to that the 1 or 2 frames on RC electricities...Or is it since Blanka's going for wake-up RC electricity that he looses the save and Iori can throw him at any point during the gamble?

Is it like this... "OH, Iori's trying to grab me with that gay ass Scum Gale."
"Heheh. Bastard can't RC that." (Move continues)
RC Electricity gets grabbed because of the properties shared with
the roll, and looses 7 frame window too so he can be thrown.
"WTF???"

Or is it Buk knows lots of people might think to abuse the RC electricities on wakeup like a perfect dragonpunch if Iori's standing over them to knock his ass off, and as a result does it anyway slightly earlier than they wake up to grab their RC reversal attempts?

Sounds cool either way.

The only catch to that I might say(or guess as you're better with Frames), is Iori's Scum Gale vs Kyo's "Issetsu Seoi Nage" is that Kyo could only do that once Blanka got up, and it'd come out as a s.HK unless he waited those 7 frames right? Unless Blanka's reversal RC electricties came out instead, with reversal timing it looks like it'd beat the kickthrow either way.

You're right though, get the other guy to blockin and eating counter-hits he'd be susceptible to a kickthrow here and there. The windows of opportunity here in those instances are very small anyway, fast paced. To mash on RC electricity in these instances mustn't be so easy as some said because even mashing it takes precision right?

Whenever I block RC elec, I either...

1. Continue blocking and look to see if Blanka does anything other than d.HK

or

2. dp+LP against Blanka's limb when he tries to follow up . (won't work if he linked his d.HK within three frame window)

I never try to jump away or let go of my low block, and I certainly never try to hit Blanka with a d.MP after blocking HP elec though. Am I even in range for d.MP after blocking anyway?

Actually I didn't know it was +10, alls I knew was if whiffed Electricity was certainly punishable thanks to some framedata I read on here somewheres. Actually I think that was one of your posts. Like 13 frames recovery or somesuch.

I meant I always go for JD's if Blanka's that close, if I guessed right I keep up the rhythm and JD all the hits and punish with d.MP (Think you could s.HK too in that instance) If I guessed wrong I'd be blocking anyway and taking more guard crush and chip from this green bastard. Problem was when he mixed up and threw. Never landed d.MP after blocking but after reading this I guess there's no point. :sweat: Thx.

SOOOO

Of the two options you mentioned you do blocking elec. You could keep blocking, which seems like the end result would be block electricity and d.HK (in that 3 frame window) or a nicely timed reversal dp+Lp which can get stuffed by that very same d.HK?

Sounds like a lot of options are removed if Blanka's on the offensive with that shit. You mentioned far s.HK xx cloud super, (I remember that the tip of his foot is invincible right?) could you retaliate with that after blocking the whole string?

I bet you could do max range d.MP xx up kicks on Blanka mashing elec too since there's an invincible hitbox at the tip of Kyo's first. I didn't test it, but I have a feeling the MK upkicks won't reach though...

That seems kinda cool, I'll try this out and see how that works.

You can do the same thing with K-groove JD by tapping d/b for a split second as you get up, immediately hit d.LP afterwards to do option select JD RC elec/throw counter.

Now that sounds interesting. I didn't think K-Kyo had option selects like P-Kyo did.

Hey thanks for the input. It's rare for me to fight top-end A-groove teams now-a-days. It still looks like that in the end though point blank, Blanka effectively makes the match even..:xeye:

Hellion

12-22-2005, 04:54 PM

walking out of close s.HK range to get far s.HK is of course great since it will beat almost all of his normals.

I know theory fighter could be a bitch, but couldn't RC Blanka on reaction hop through whiffed s.HK and punish with a CC?
(Just saying he see's the startup and mashes it)

c.MP can be good against c.HP if you time it well. whiffing c.MPs at his max c.HP range is good, buffer qcf+HP and if it counterhits you can connect a HP rekka chain.

That's cool. APOC says he invented that years ago, the technique of buffering specials/supers on good pokes like Eagle's d.MK for counterhits.
Never actually incorporated this into my game... Too stuck on walking d.LK's. Looks good, no risk and tip of Kyo's fist is Godly after all...

What are some good counterhit-setups to get at c.HP max range?
Maybe kickthrow, walk back slightly bit d.MP?
Kickkthrow, d.LK (can one short reach at that range?) d.MP?
Walk up d.LK x 3 *pause* d.MP?

Or maybe just kickthrow and meaty d.MP? If Blanka wakes with electricity shouldn't this move counter-hit just because of the invincible tip? Even if he blocks it and you cancel into qcf+HP you can go into his fierce rekka mixups so its all good, especially at the closing of a match right?

kcxj

12-23-2005, 04:27 AM

Of the two options you mentioned you do blocking elec. You could keep blocking, which seems like the end result would be block electricity and d.HK (in that 3 frame window) or a nicely timed reversal dp+Lp which can get stuffed by that very same d.HK?

If you get swept trying trying dp+LP, that means your DP didn't come out at all. You must of let go of low block by accident when you inputted your f, d, df joystick motion.

There's no stuffing involved.

Whenever Blanka does d.HK at the exact same time Kyo does dp+LP, Kyo will always win, period.

What I meant was that the Blanka player doesn't always perfectly link his d.HK after a blocked HP elec within that three frame window though. That's why it's a good idea sometimes to attempt to dp+LP Blanka's anticipated d.HK or input a JD attempt.

You're right though, get the other guy to blockin and eating counter-hits he'd be susceptible to a kickthrow here and there. The windows of opportunity here in those instances are very small anyway, fast paced. To mash on RC electricity in these instances mustn't be so easy as some said because even mashing it takes precision right?

A throw is a throw. I use a throw as an attempt to do damage to people when I anticipate that they will block. Other than when you're trying to throw a wake-up RC electricity attempt, I can't think of any real significant instances where it makes a difference whether you used the punch throw or the kick throw. I DO know that kick throw has just as much range as the punch throw but leaves you in much better position than the punch throw does though.

Actually I didn't know it was +10, alls I knew was if whiffed Electricity was certainly punishable thanks to some framedata I read on here somewheres. Actually I think that was one of your posts. Like 13 frames recovery or somesuch.

The HP elec is +10 on the BLOCK. Blanka gets to move ten frames before you do while you're still stuck in block stun.

If he whiffs the RC elec, you can punish it like you would whiff punish any other whiffed move. Just be quick about it since Blanka's whiff animation IS very short (but still punishable never the less.)

Sounds like a lot of options are removed if Blanka's on the offensive with that shit. You mentioned far s.HK xx cloud super, (I remember that the tip of his foot is invincible right?) could you retaliate with that after blocking the whole string?

Blanka is at -3 after you block his d.HK.

You can't punish him for that.

So no, you don't have any guaranteed retaliations after Blanka does that HP elec (blocked), d.HK string on you.

Even when you JD the d.HK, Kyo still doesn't have a move that reaches in time to get a guaranteed hit on Blanka. If would be sweet if you could do Kyo far s.HK xx super after JDing the sweep like you can with K-Sagat's JD, four frame d.MK xx super, but you can't.

The Kyo far s.HK is too slow at seven frame startup.

==========

Blanka's RC hop move sucks and only scrubs do that, so I don't know why you're theory fightering about that move. I'm not the slightest bit afraid of that LAGGY RC command hop and neither should you be as well. I HOPE my opponent likes to do it randomly on me actually, so I can destroy him for it.

I also don't know ANY good Blanka players that mash on s.HK at close range btw in response to the Ragnafrak post. Again, that's some useless theory fighter stuff and I was just sayin'...

... you never know when your opponent might go random on you though, or if you're using d.LK TOO much, he might catch on and randomly throw out a close s.HK just to keep you honest.

I would hardly call Blanka's s.HK a move that makes this match totally suck for Kyo and "shut down" his low short game though.

--------

Why are you guys even responding to year old epsilon posts if you're just going to make some "blah, blah, blah" comments (literally)? :rofl:

Hellion

12-23-2005, 11:25 AM

So no, you don't have any guaranteed retaliations after Blanka does that HP elec (blocked), d.HK string on you.

Damn. That sucks.
So dp+LP is it?
Would that buy Kyo enough time to go on the offensive against A-Blanka, with save fall and all?
Or try to back away after the whole string and play the match again typical Kyo-like, careful 'til you get the knockdown?

Blanka's RC hop move sucks and only scrubs do that, so I don't know why you're theory fightering about that move.

Sorry, I don't see vids often and I've never fought good A-Blankas. Just scrub A-Blankas that abuse all his RC's. The only character I'm able to fight him with and defeat is a highly offensive Nakoruru, and I attribute that to their lack of experience fighting her.
In my experience if my Kyo beats that A-Blanka, he usually defeats the whole team and I believe then that the guy doesn't really know how to play against Kyo when he's on the offensive and I'm not really learning anything.

My best bet is to head to SVGL this New Years vacation (I'm stuck in Mississippi)
And play the most games I can before I come back here and vegetate some more.
Unless there's any competition at all within driving distance, which I doubt. Florida maybe? Texas?

Why are you guys even responding to year old epsilon posts if you're just going to make some "blah, blah, blah" comments (literally)? :rofl:

Well, I was just responding to Ragnafrak. I am starting to piece together all the posts you've done on Kyo (yeah I read them all) and understand plenty of what you can do to Blanka at range, but with Kyo's up close and personal game it looks like all A-Blanka's got to do is just RC Electricity away and hope with a smile on his ugly mug. It almost litterally looks like the only thing he needs to do to make Kyo think more.

Actually now that I think on it JDing the electricities isn't hard, if you knock his ass down and stand over him in your experience would he be inclined to RC elec on wake up till you punish him consistently for it? Hell multiple JD's to kickthrow for instance?

Another Angle
I found the thread on RCing the electricity in general discussion, was wondering how good exactly Kyo can walk d.LK's (OR d.LP's) on his ass. The timing is very strict I would imagine, dealing Kyo's frame advantage vs Blanka's 2 frame jabs to RC electricities here.
Just gotta land that first d.Lk/d.LP when Blanka's standing up.

Sorry if I am frustrating you here with the questions and all. Just wanted to come up to speed so I'm not throwing all my money away when I do visit Cali.:wonder:

Hellion

12-23-2005, 11:41 AM

I saw what Buk posted about this move, so I tested it against Sagat, Yamazaki, Geese, Zangief and found out some stuff.

Sagat

This was the most interesting of them.

Poke wise, Kyo can tag Sagat with the second hit of this move and throw out a far s.MP or d.MP (if he's close enough) and counter-hit everything Sagat has.

DP wise, Jab/strong DP's trade counter hits, but Fierce always beats Kyo there. Haven't tried going low with d.MK, but I would imagine the results would be worse off due to its slightly slower startup.

Just due to the fierce DP, I imagine reversal Supers would naturally do the same.

Geese

Poke wise, I couldn't get his close s.LK to come out on one his of the lift kicks, so I had Kyo do it closer and go for a d.MP, and of course Geese would counterhit. Tried having Kyo do s.LP, d.LK, etc. Results were similar, but slightly sporadic. Counterhits would go either way. Timing must be on point here.

Yamazaki

Poke wise, I'm not too familiar with the speeds of Yamazaki's pokes, but I was almost sure he had slower moves than Kyo had. Just mashing s.LP seemed to counter-hit Kyo all the time no matter what Kyo pushed. Dunno if this has to do with the characters height vs Kyo's height or anything and he might've been simply poking Kyo's arm past the assaulting hitbox. I dunno.

Reversal Grab super always landed.

Zangief

Poke wise, I didn't bother. I just went for reversal SPD's, beat Kyo every time. Maybe though I could go for a super so the flash and invincibility will have SPD whiff and punish Gief for it, seems like it'd work. What if he RC's 360+K and gets the walking grab? Dunno yet but it could best Kyo there.

Blanka

I know Buk said Sagat sized characters, I tried on Blanka anyway due to many people on SRK calling him a "fatty" due t to hitbox size.

He could of course duck it. I block standing anyway.
Responded with the d.LP, s.LP and counter-hits were in his favor of course.:bluu:

Will try some more stuff and update the post later on.

Legendary Gokou

12-23-2005, 01:24 PM

Honestly speaking, I wouldn't use the move on anyone other than Sagat and maybe Geese. You want to space the move out so that the first one whiffs, second doesn't.

kcxj

12-23-2005, 08:16 PM

I don't know if it makes a serious difference or not (since the frame data isn't listed), but are you sure Buk said the qcf+MK, MK move and not the qcf+LK, LK version?

My friend Ness does this guard pattern/trap on me whenever I have Geese or Sagat and it's really, really annoying. I don't know exactly what he presses, but I'm in the corner and he does like d.LK, d.MP xx qcf+LK, LK, far s.MP xx qcf+MK, MK, walk forward and do something into the qcf+K, K moves again. If I try to hit any button whenever he's canceling into the upkicks, I get counter hit and juggled into super. If I try to hit any button after blocking the second hit of the light upkicks, I get hit by counter hit far s.MP xx upkicks.

-----

I don't think Kyo can do anything after JDing HP electricity either, at least not that I know of. I don't know what the frame data is after Blanka's HP elec gets JD'd (and I don't feel like doing the math either), but just from playing experience, JD every hit, Kyo kick throw (5 frame startup) does not sound guaranteed at all. I try to do Kyo d.LP (3 frame startup) after JDing every hit and Blanka is still able to block every time. Whenever Blanka is able to block, that pretty much means he's able to counter your throw attempt with his d.LK combos. I think he's STILL in frame advantage even after you JD all the hits of his HP elec even, so he might even be able to counter hit you for attempting JD, d.LP.

But yeah, usually go for a throw attempt after JDing Blanka's HP electricity. Either that or keep inputting JDs to hope that Blanka is mashing on sweep (which I CAN punish with d.MP xx combo at such close range).

-----

I actually feel that P-Kyo is the best Kyo to use now, especially against Blanka.

P-Kyo gets GUARANTEED far s.HK xx super everytime after parrying a Blanka d.HK. He also gets a guaranteed free dp+HP after JDing two hits of the RC electricity.

To be honest, I don't even use my supers that often with K-Kyo anyway. I feel I get more damage out of doing the punch combos when I'm raged than doing one big long combo and burning my meter all in one shot.

The only significant advantage K-Kyo has over P-Kyo I can think of right now is that JDing the slide is a LOT easier and safer than parrying the slide. It doesn't matter whether you JD or parry either, Kyo gets a free combo both ways.

-----

If your friend is running through your whole team with A-Blanka, learn to beat him up right here and right now then. :badboy:

The RC hop has serious lag at the end when Blanka lands. You get a FREE d.LP combo every single time. It's only when Blanka does the f, f dash is when it's easy to get caught by random RC electricity or counter hit d.LK.

To counter the f, f dash, either tap on low shorts or jabs to hit Blanka out of the air every time (what OTK likes to do). Or attempt to throw Blanka after he lands (which will counter both his RC elec and his slow d.LK)

To counter the RC command hop, stay outside the range of Blanka's crouching fierce and randomly stick out your d.MP's to counter Blanka's random slides. If Blanka jumps at you, you absolutely MUST anti-air him always. Use either your dp+HP or close s.MK if he's too close for dp+HP. What you're looking to do is to make Blanka impatient and try to get in with a RC command hop. COMBO HIS ASS once you see him do it.

You can tell the difference between the command hops and the f, f, dashes because Blanka makes a noise whenever he does the command hop.

If Blanka comes right at you aggressively with the RC command hop as soon as the match starts, great, you don't need to do any work.

If he's sitting there and charging first, sticking out d.HP whenever you get close, that's when you need to play a little more patient. Some things you can do other than stick out d.MP and wait to anti-air are...

-walk forward to poke with the max range of far s.HK (whenever you feel you can get away with it)
-low jump regular HP (not the air d+HP move) to get in
-low jump MK from far, rdp+LK move when you land
-whiff Kyo s.LP, walk back to try and bait Blanka into sticking out his d.HP (and whiffing), kick Blanka's arm with your d.HK
-Mexican Kyo special --> randomly stick out far s.MP buffered into qcf+LP. If the far s.MP whiffs, that's fine, nothing happens. If the far s.MP random HITS one of Blanka's limbs, you automatically cancel into qcf+LP and get a free combo.

Have training mode? Good. Go, go, go!

-----

Don't worry about all the questions. :rofl:

I just wouldn't answer them if they were bothering me. The discussion (without random swears and people I've never met in my life calling me a "faggot") is nice actually.

-----

My friend Juan (VDO) is in Alabama until December 31 for his work. He's one of the most hardcore gamers I've ever met in my life though. I don't know if you want to try and hook up with him or not (since so close to holidays), but it's worth it to play games with him. I always have a lot of fun, and P-Raiden is a damn stupid cheapass too. :tup:

Hellion

12-24-2005, 01:20 PM

Honestly speaking, I wouldn't use the move on anyone other than Sagat and maybe Geese. You want to space the move out so that the first one whiffs, second doesn't.

Oh I just skimmed through all this and some complained against Yamazaki being hard and was just experimenting on different ways to get in 'tis all. It's deceptively hard to see coming because it's somewhat fast.

Yeah I programmed Kyo to back dash twice, run forward slightly and cancelled it into qcf+MK, MK, although I read what kcxj said and feel stupid so far as misreading what Buk posted.

At least though the counter-hit thing vs Sagat was favorable to Kyo though

Hellion

12-24-2005, 03:11 PM

I don't know if it makes a serious difference or not (since the frame data isn't listed), but are you sure Buk said the qcf+MK, MK move and not the qcf+LK, LK version?

Yeah I made a mistake there:looney: I read Buk's post too fast. I thought it was worth the test though. I am sure the results would be different since he said LK lift kicks were safe.

My friend Ness does this guard pattern/trap on me whenever I have Geese or Sagat and it's really, really annoying.

Since it looks like the first hit of the lift kicks must whiff for this to work, his goal is to get close and play frame advantage and push him out enough so the first hit whiffs with fast jabs/shorts ending with the d.MP then? Looks cool to do it twice. It looks like a really interesting move to incorporate especially if it works against a top tier really well.
I just thought anything vs Sagat, Geese, Yama was worth looking into. Does look risky though.

I don't think Kyo can do anything after JDing HP electricity either, at least not that I know of.

:bluu:

But yeah, usually go for a throw attempt after JDing Blanka's HP electricity. Either that or keep inputting JDs to hope that Blanka is mashing on sweep (which I CAN punish with d.MP xx combo at such close range).

:rock:

I actually feel that P-Kyo is the best Kyo to use now, especially against Blanka.

P-Kyo gets GUARANTEED far s.HK xx super everytime after parrying a Blanka d.HK. He also gets a guaranteed free dp+HP after JDing two hits of the RC electricity.

Could Kyo parry the d.HK even with the +10 on Blanka's side due to P-groove being able to parry 1 frame before blocking? It doesn't sound like it's possible but since Blanka's got that 3 frame window thing going on I wanted to clarify. It that's the case then just Blocking the whole HP electricity andn d.HK would be cake (Just gotta get used to P-Nako:nunchuck: )

To be honest, I don't even use my supers that often with K-Kyo anyway.

It's fun doing it that way just because of the "psycological" thing going on during the rage. His mixups seemingly become slightly more effective just because.

What you're looking to do is to make Blanka impatient and try to get in with a RC command hop. COMBO HIS ASS once you see him do it.

So in short Blanka here's completely vulnerable to reprisals if he tries to RC Hop or dash. Try to keep him out and make him try to get in? Heh.

-Mexican Kyo special

Have training mode? Good. Go, go, go!

Gotta see how the Mexican Kyo special holds up on trades with d.HP, would it trade as the poke comes out or nothing really damaging happens? Of course the trade'd be in Blanka's favor damage wise, what's the distancing they normally do this at, so Kyo's fist would tag Blanka's arm, etc. I'll find out as soon as I can and all, visiting a buddy's house and he's got me out drinking and partying for X-Mas.

I just wouldn't answer them if they were bothering me. The discussion (without random swears and people I've never met in my life calling me a "faggot") is nice actually.

Well, this is information I feel people could actually use, and Kyo's a pretty strong character in CvS2, just gotta be played differently than most other "top tiers." I feel this matchup in particular with K/P Kyo vs A-Blanka being particularly the most inportant because I don't think K-Blanka stands too much of a chance if Kyo gets his game going. (Well, of course he does being top tier and all, but so far as Kyo goes you know)

Besides I hate flame wars and stupid posts. If no one contributes anything worthwhile in the post, why post at all except to see how pretty your avatar is?:rofl:

My friend Juan (VDO) is in Alabama until December 31 for his work.
Isn't he the "Rushdown God?":wonder: I'd be glad to play and see how far I've come along since I first picked up the game seriously like in '03. Unfortunately I won't be able to because I'm flying out of town to visit wife and family and friends in Cali... Too bad Alabama's not even on the return trip when I bring my car over:sweat: It'd be cool to try to see how I stack up.

Hey thanks again for the info, I'll brainstorm some more scenario's between Kyo/Blanka if I can. Meantime here's to the New Years:badboy:

kcxj

01-03-2006, 06:54 AM

My friend taught me something which I thought was pretty cool today. To counter Blanka using RC electricity as he gets up...

-walk back out of range, d.MP xx combo the recovery of Blanka's RC electricity

Even if Blanka continues mashing, the tip of Kyo's d.MP is invincible and will counter hit the mashing Blanka clean.

I find this MUCH easier than trying to time a kick throw (which also works) as Blanka gets up all the time. After landing a punch chain combo (and assuming you used the whiff hcb+LK to chase after the body), Kyo is left in just as powerful wakeup game situation as he is after landing a kick throw also.

Hellion

01-05-2006, 05:19 PM

I've done that on training mode before, guess it involves a little baiting before you walk back otherwise you'll be doing it too late and end up blocking...

Suppose his back dash puts him in similar range?

Legendary Gokou

01-05-2006, 06:30 PM

Hellion

01-05-2006, 06:44 PM

Think the timing's more strict. Sure as hell isn't as easy as qcf+LK.

I was doing some thinking on and off the holidays, forgot to post this everytime I looked here. Was wondering how would rdp+LK work in that string following HP electricities? Would Kyo clear the sweep on the 1st frame and tag Blanka's sweep, thus getting his knockdown? Looks fast enough.

ManBeast

10-13-2006, 03:00 AM

I'm just started on K Kyo so pls don't flame me ok. I need some tips and strategies (up close, long range, aggressive and turtling players) against Vega, Chun li, shotokans, Ryo S., Blanka, Sagat and A Sakura. pls note that i'm not that hot on JDing everything and which ratio is better for K Kyo? thanks!

ragnafrak

10-13-2006, 07:01 AM

My friend Ness does this guard pattern/trap on me whenever I have Geese or Sagat and it's really, really annoying. I don't know exactly what he presses, but I'm in the corner and he does like d.LK, d.MP xx qcf+LK, LK, far s.MP xx qcf+MK, MK, walk forward and do something into the qcf+K, K moves again.

c.LKx3, c.HP xx qcf+LK,K (mashed c.LK vs thinner)
c.MP, c.LK(or the first 2 moves reversed), c.HP xx qcf+LK,K

i think there's also a way to set it up using far s.MP but it would probably only work on geese or something

if you're K/P you can parry/JD the last hit and beat kyo up, or activate through, level2 etc

ManBeast

10-24-2006, 11:17 PM

guys i need more links to makoto videos since i only saw one. I'm a recent P groove convert and I need to see more of Kyo in P groove. thanks.

xX_Deus_Xx

10-25-2006, 12:03 AM

no asking for vids LOLZ JOIN DATE SEP 2006 LOSER!

www.crazyasskim.com

ManBeast

10-26-2006, 06:54 PM

thanks for the link. i joined in lately cuz my old username and password isn't working, so i created a new account instead. man makoto can really abuse those option selects with cammy and that match against sagat was a hoot! that sagat player was outmatched throughout the game! did you see makoto's new match videos in youtube? that was really good.

Sonickun

11-03-2007, 01:44 AM

hsibrad

11-05-2007, 02:47 PM

kyo's :bdp: lk or mk works on blanka becuase the blanka user is usually charging blanka:df: for a blankball or air ball, after da knockdown move in for a low jumping mix up game..but he'd had to a very slow player not see da mk one coming

this is an excellent strategy.

for versions without rollcanceling.... or xbox live.

epsilon_

11-06-2007, 12:37 AM

Legendary Gokou

11-06-2007, 12:48 AM

kyo vs chun li?

tough match for kyo imo.

he cant stop j.lk crossup without super super early s.mk at some ranges.

he gets sbk trapped

c.lp counter hit/throw games generally annoy him. 2 frame c.jab means you have to time your counter hit setups perfectly.

her walk speed is extremely fast.

kyo j.lk is good against her sometimes... idk this matchup is pretty hard, she is difficult to anti air, and her up close game is faster than yours.

k groove btw, p groove is much much easier in this matchup because option select down parry makes her truly not mash on c.jab.

Chun li's floaty jump makes it easy to react to. I always keep an eye on the distance and try to avoid the space where Chun-li gets a deep cross up. If its not well spaced you can do hcb+p for DP cross up.

SBK trap does suck. I think I'm going to start option selecting down+fierce in P groove. I'd much rather get hit by it then have it take away a good chunk of guard crush. Its more ideal to see st fierce xx SBK though.

I don't really use j lk against Chun li too much. Although I have admittingly used it after doing rekkas, spacing it as a deep cross up.

epsilon_

11-06-2007, 12:54 AM

smart chuns dont jump like full screen, im talking about around just outside of kyo's max df+hk range.

its difficult to do anything about, you cant dp it at that range, your dp will either straight up lose, or go too far forward and whiff. also at this range s.mk will usually lose, unless done really really early.

Legendary Gokou

11-06-2007, 01:09 AM

If you feel you're in a bad spot, then I'd consider defensive options.

Dash/run forward

jump straight up (JD, parry, air block, or take the air hit to reset the situation)

walk forward (with a fat cross up like Chuns, may force you to block)

epsilon_

11-06-2007, 01:11 AM

i dont like any of those options.

i might try run under, but remember im talking about k kyo.

anything involving taking a hit seems pretty gay to me.

scrubydan

11-06-2007, 10:20 AM

the only ways i can think of is to zone her enough to make her jump or roll. if she gets in and try to do jab links or fierce into bird kick, uppercut

epsilon_

11-06-2007, 02:44 PM

yeah...i tried out some stuff today in training mode.

first...running under doesn't work at all, you not only get hit, but running counts as a counter hit so...yeah it's a terrible "option".

couple things.

s.mk works as a great anti air from a distance, it will usually beat j.lk clean from that distance, but against most j.lk's won't com from there.

at a certain timing, you can c.mp (sorta like hf guile c.mp) and it will trade (in kyo's favor). also jump back rh works at times.

as far as attacking chun li, low jump fp is really good, if at any thing except max (or close to max) range of chun li c.rh, low jump fierce wins. (however she can anti air you for free with s.mp)

low jump rh will beat her non super early s.mp (but she can anti air you with c.mp for free).

Lionx

11-06-2007, 06:18 PM

Theoretically i always ran in my head that if you see the jump comming, you can dash backward and uppercut, and at worse you will just air reel backwards resetting it. But thats all theory..-_-;

i dont know if c.hp whiffs/is quick enough or not. You can also JD => Throw maybe.

/random

epsilon_

11-06-2007, 06:49 PM

c.fp will get beaten clean vs j.lk at most angles...not a move to press.

HeaTBlazn

11-17-2007, 04:14 PM

epsilon_

11-17-2007, 06:09 PM

i dont think c.fp would reach and still combo at that range, also not sure if it would even link, the c.mp alone is a 2 frame link normally, and that move is pretty fast.

HeaTBlazn

11-17-2007, 10:29 PM

actually it does connect.
I started practicing it in training mode.
a little tougher to combo but alot mroe rewarding.

scrubydan

11-18-2007, 12:15 AM

actually it does connect.
I started practicing it in training mode.
a little tougher to combo but alot mroe rewarding.

lol it combos, and i thought just the same way as u do a year back, but no.

first fierce rekka on block is not safe, ppl with fast super can hit you. like blanka super. 2nd rekka on block is not safe either, ppl can punish u too. i.e. rock's cr.mk into fierce hard edge. both of them are punishable. so stick with mp into jab rekka.

cr.fierce has lots of lag time also if u whiff, if u try to combo into jab rekka there are several times it pushes back too much and doesn't combo. so only use cr.fierce into fierce rekka as punisher on certain things.

epsilon_

11-18-2007, 01:08 AM

2nd hit fierce rekka is +1

.

HeaTBlazn

11-18-2007, 12:11 PM

so its pretty much safe unless I go on something with 1 frame start up?

I see the valid points. I might as well mix it up if I confirm the 2 shorts.

thanks guys.

FSgamer

11-18-2007, 01:24 PM

Ive been thinking about kyo bnb c.lk c.lk c.mp xx rekka.
and Ive been wondering if I can just switch it up to c.lk c.lk c.hp xx fierce rekka.

I mean why not? more damage more guard break roughly same range.

frame data help please.
c.LK/LP, c.HP is a 1-frame link.

You could also try c.LK, close s.HK, qcf+HP > hcb+HP
c.LK, close s.HK is a 2-frame link, close s.HK leaves you at -1 on block.

Or if you want to get fancy you could try c.MP, c.MP x whatever.

scrubydan

11-18-2007, 02:01 PM

so blocked 2nd fierce rekka is safe?

epsilon_

11-18-2007, 02:19 PM

not only safe, you're +1, if you correctly time a c.lk, you will counter hit them EDIT: ON HIT.

scrubydan

11-18-2007, 03:16 PM

i am just curious, why do i not see any of the top players do this combo in high level play if it's good? imo u can punish safe falls for jab rekka combo, go for a throw after 2nd jab rekka or cr short short to see if it hits, upkick into super. i think it has more options if u get what i mean.

epsilon_

11-18-2007, 03:24 PM

EDIT:

MOAR WRONG.

Only +1 on hit.

HeaTBlazn

11-19-2007, 09:27 PM

i use it in guard crush situations.

its really good for pressure.

c.lk, c.fp xx fp rekka, 2nd fp rekka counter hit/throw.

its pretty good.

wow wouldnt that lead to a semi infinite guard crush string?

epsilon_

11-19-2007, 10:02 PM

EDIT.

WRONG WRONG WRONG

its only +1 on hit, sorry sorry sorry.

FSgamer

11-20-2007, 08:24 AM

AFAIK the +1 is only on hit, blocked second fierce Rekkan Ken is something like -8 or something.

Legendary Gokou

11-20-2007, 09:35 AM

AFAIK the +1 is only on hit, blocked second fierce Rekkan Ken is something like -8 or something.

This sounds right. The move on block really isn't good. The only time I'll go for the 2nd hit is when I have the feeling the opponent will try and press something and I get a counter hit. If you do it with no delay, its very punishable. If you do it with a delay, good players will RC out of it. I'll also go for it if I'm close to guard crush.

I don't use fierce because if I remember right it pushes you back a bit too far. And you can still get hit by fast supers. With jab you stay in st rh range.

Random block string I like to do ;

cr mp, df+rh, cr fierce xx fierce rekka

HeaTBlazn

11-20-2007, 10:56 AM

but then it depends on their reaction time.
2nd rekka fierce whiff is still pretty fast. you can go for a throw or a dp if you think they are going to attack.

is df+hk really good to use up close?
I usually use it as a poke if I wanna get closer or push them to the corner.

Zhugeliang

06-27-2008, 07:37 PM

scrubydan

07-05-2008, 01:50 AM

Kyo VS Anyone!!!

How do i pressure then? i try to use the fire fist thing! but when i get closer my friend just use R1 to grab me and throw me away! wat do i do? first i'm only good at using the first nothing else...

wtf dude i have no idea what ur saying, be more specific and make things clear maybe i can help u out

epsilon_

07-05-2008, 05:01 AM

sorry had to correct some posts.

fierce rekka is only +1 on hit, sorry sorry, i was wrong.

scrubydan

07-06-2008, 04:10 AM

so yeah that's why u should never ever always go for fierce rekkas from comboing cr.lk, cr.fierce. it will get u killed. i only use it as punisher or chip damage

Zhugeliang

07-06-2008, 11:09 AM

scrubydan

07-07-2008, 02:12 AM

@scrubydan
How can i use kyo and beat blanka and ryu?
Ryu always use shoryuken when i jump and try 2 pressure him and blanka is just 2 fast and when his laying down i cant beat him, becuz he's range and i cant even touch him! give me some advice scrubydan! also, do u mind lf i add on 2 my Msn?

blanka: after say a cr.rh sweep, go for a cross up lk into combo, it works like magic when u mix things up because they go for charge and it USUALLY messes them up (don't go for it all the time tho they can rc blanka ball u), punish blocked blanka balls with MP rekkas (needs experience because u have to do it right after u block, but when ur used to it you can do it all the time).

JD his slide, mp into JAB (the only safe rekka on block, never go for mp or of course fp because they are not safe on block) rekkas, or low jump fierce into uppercut when u see the slide coming. watch out for his cr.fierce because if ur playing footsies against him chances are he can beat u far away, throw out more st.rh, down forward rh, cr.rh when ur just in range. and of course, anti-air him with uppercut if he jumps in and st.mk when he tries to cross you up. watch out if he tries to rc electricity, punish with st.rh when he's far or mp into rekkas if he's in the range. do not jump in much against him because he will successfully anti-air u and u can't do much to punish him even u jd.

this is actually a pretty good matchup (at least for me and i PREFER this matchup), but just don't jump in unless ur going for cross up when u knocked him down. other stuff would be cr.mk for a good long range poke (he can't really touch u with cr.fierce unless he slides u, but sliding is dangerous so he won't pull that much unless he's stupid). i don't know how much u know about kyo but there are tons of mix ups i can think of, it really comes down to ur basics so

ryu: don't fucking jump in lol, and he is pretty stupid for doing shoryuken on u because it's just one hit and u can simply JD once (a good ryu doesn't shoryuken anti-air K groove, usually st.rh) into a big fat combo. watch out for his fireballs, ryu doesn't have as much range as kyo so try to do the same stuff like st.rh, cr.rh, down forward rh, cr.mk to zone him until he is impatient and jump in on you, then u can anti-air, st.mk on his cross ups etc etc. a good ryu would do rc fireball just in range to beat ur footsies, jd a close one, st.mp into rekkas.

i guess some ryu players would be fancy and try to do lp srk's, watch the timing and punish with st.mp into rekkas. when they whiff a hurricane kick and u crouch under it, do a cr.fierce to punish it when it's almost STOP SPINNING, never do it too early because it can kick u when u do it too early.
imo, another easier matchup for kyo. just don't jump in as much and use ur normals as ur weapon then u wont get trapped from fireball srk trap too much

edit: when he cancels like a cr.mk or cr.rh into fireball, just jd the fireball

Zhugeliang

07-10-2008, 10:12 AM

@scrubydan, do u get on MSN at all?

scrubydan

07-12-2008, 11:48 PM

@scrubydan, do u get on MSN at all?

just add me, i'm glad to talk all about kyo because he's one of my best character. and yea i get on a lot

Zhugeliang

07-13-2008, 09:38 PM

scrubydan

07-14-2008, 06:03 PM

@scrubydan, so could you add me too? my is shadowslayer128@hotmail.com! also email me when are you going to be on? cause i never seen you on before! lasting my time, is well i live in the U.S TX! so figure the time that i could talk to you! thanx!:wgrin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHInD4BtBds

start watching 3:02, that's a blocked 2 hit scissor kick and u can punish that. see how kyo does a mp into qcf lp? he missed because he tried to do 2 mp into qcf lp, it combos but he missed, but u can still see that bison is open for punish.

remember u cannot punish a blocked 1 hit scissor kick (for example during 1:59).

at 3.05 he punished the blocked 2 hit scissor kick with another combo (cr.fierce, qcf hp, hcb hp, f+hp). this combo is a bit more damage but not safe if bison blocks it, the reason why he did this combo is he knows it's a for sure punish so it didnt matter.

do the same for bison's slide because that move has TERRIBLE recovery, its easy punish so thats really basic stuff. if u blocked bison's psycho crusher, do either a st.hp or st.hk to punish it after he goes pass u, you cannot get killed over these easy stuff because afterall, if u block it and punish then u will win without ANY problem at all. just don't get hit and wait for the block...simple