Rock Strategies and Match ups

[Kamui]

Since most strategies and tricks are matchup-dependent, it makes sense to group the two together. Discuss anything useful in actual matches here, from specific tactics, to character-dependent move counters, to overall gameplans. The more specific you get, the better. It would be greatly appreciated if you took the time to test out everything you plan on saying in training mode to make sure that it works and to provide some numbers for stuff like damage and dizzy amount.

Other than that, try not to piss anyone off or start any flame wars.

[UCRJesse]

vs. cammy- at midrange/fullscreen, reppukens are very good against cammy, especially if she has no low jump. Standing roundhouse and low strong will anti-air all of her jump ins and crossup attempts if done early enough. if she gets in close to you, just block and try to tech anytime she trys to throw you... not wise to push anything until she's out of range since her standing fierce will always end up in you eating a super.

vs. bison- try not to block scissor kicks since you have slow ass pokes and probably won't be able to hit him after.

vs. blanka- you can punish blanka balls without super... block high, then do a fierce elbow (qcb fierce), both hits should hit blanka as he lands. you do not have to just defend for this to work. a lot of rock players i've played against don't know this.

if you use k groove- and you're running around the end of your meter, just make them block something and do deadly rave, stop before the fireblast, and you get a free mixup.. either do low shorts, run through 360 grab, standing short into 360 grab, just 360 grab, low jump rh... blah blah blah, lots of possibilities. if they are running low on life, make them block the fireblast at the end of deadly rave and they'll probably die, the chip damage on that part of the super is ridiculous.

to people first learning rock- if you seen all those crazy videos of corner throw setups, just remember that they are only good if you make them fear getting hit so mixup between throw setups and low shorts into super or the throw setups do nothing for you.

[Buktooth]

Originally posted by UCRollerblader
vs. bison- try not to block scissor kicks since you have slow ass pokes and probably won't be able to hit him after.
If it's a 2 hit scissor kick, you can actually do a low forward xx super pretty easily. Sweeping Bison isn't hard either. If it's a one hit scissor kick however, you can't really do anything... but neither can most non-Sagat characters in the game, and it's hard to punish even for him. Just make him block something if you're in range and go from there.

[eightysix]

Ahhh, Rolento is driving me nuts. How am I supposed to beat this mofo? My Hibiki gets eaten alive by free jump-ins and my Rock does decent when I can stop the stupid jumpy runaway shit and get some command throw mixups.

[UCRJesse]

Originally posted by Buktooth88

If it's a 2 hit scissor kick, you can actually do a low forward xx super pretty easily. Sweeping Bison isn't hard either. If it's a one hit scissor kick however, you can't really do anything... but neither can most non-Sagat characters in the game, and it's hard to punish even for him. Just make him block something if you're in range and go from there.

uh, yeah, shoulda specified one hit.... anyways

rolento- hibiki standing fierce should stuff all of rolentos jumpins, correct me if i'm wrong. as far as rock vs. rolento, theres no trick to beating him, just don't throw reppukens since he can hit you on reaction any time. if he trys to wall jump over you, jump back short or forward usually stops him. it's hard to mixup rolento on wakeup since he can usually just scouter jump back. if he's in the corner, get him to block a standing short on wakeup and mixup from there, if he scouter jumps back, do standing roundhouse and then you get a mixup and some damage, you have to train the other rolento not to rc scouter jump away.... oh yeah, from midscreen if they rc scouter jump back i think you might be able to shine knuckle him.

vs. hibiki- rc reppuken from out of range is pretty good against her since she outpokes you by far... don't do it too often though since she has relatively quick jump in combos, use it to bait jumps more than to put on pressure. if you fake a reppuken and she jumps at you, do standing rh xx reppuken. if you suspect she's looking for reppuken and is going to try to rc slash, then do a high counter. your low jump rh should work well against her if you can get in that range

[kcxj]

I think Rock's pokes are mad fast. Four frame d.MK and five frame d.HK. Against big characters, four frame, low risk to whiff far s.MP is useful too. d.MK and d.HK even have far range. I'm actually scared of facing Rock players now, this character is so fast... If I keep my distance, I always have to worry about random running d.HK. Worry about d.HK too much and I get run up command thrown. If I try to walk forward on Rock myself, I always end up eating a bunch of counter hit d.MK's xx qcb+LP (2 hit combo) for absolutely no reason. :lol:

I saw a Japanese player do d.MK xx super with Ryu after a Bison one-hit scissors before. I was really surprised because I never thought d.MK would ever reach. Turns out at the perfect distance Ryu can hit Bison guaranteed (albeit the timing is ridiculously tight). Rock can do the same thing too. His d.MK has the same fast startup and range as Ryu's. Although it's definately not something I would depend on in a real match (like punishing a Blanka ball with reversal qcb+HP... too hard, randomly works, randomly doesn't), just know you have the option.

[UCRJesse]

Originally posted by kcxj
I think Rock's pokes are mad fast. Four frame d.MK and five frame d.HK. Against big characters, four frame, low risk to whiff far s.MP is useful too. d.MK and d.HK even have far range. I'm actually scared of facing Rock players now, this character is so fast... If I keep my distance, I always have to worry about random running d.HK. Worry about d.HK too much and I get run up command thrown. If I try to walk forward on Rock myself, I always end up eating a bunch of counter hit d.MK's xx qcb+LP (2 hit combo) for absolutely no reason. :lol:

I saw a Japanese player do d.MK xx super with Ryu after a Bison one-hit scissors before. I was really surprised because I never thought d.MK would ever reach. Turns out at the perfect distance Ryu can hit Bison guaranteed (albeit the timing is ridiculously tight). Rock can do the same thing too. His d.MK has the same fast startup and range as Ryu's. Although it's definately not something I would depend on in a real match (like punishing a Blanka ball with reversal qcb+HP... too hard, randomly works, randomly doesn't), just know you have the option.

punishing blanka ball isn't really that hard, i think you have a few frames to hit him. d. mk, super against a 1 hit scissor kick however is usually a bad idea as you said though since the timing is really sketchy

[Kamui]

Rock Shinkuu Nage resets and tactics

Simply for the sake of bieng thorough, I've decided to go over some of the more common Shinkuu Nage resets in the corner. Some of these are common resets you have probably seen in random Otaku match videos. Corrections might need to be made some of these, feel free to do so.



Rage run shift-->Shinkuu Nage-->Rasetsu, juggle with a late crouching forward-->Rage Run shift-->Shinkuu Nage.

Popular Otaku reset. Fairly fast, difficult to react to. It's biggest problem however is that there is no optional mix up or variation to beat an opponents counter to this reset. After your opponent sees the reset after 2-3 times it can be reacted to and beaten in the same way every time. When combined with other resets however you can extend it's life time slightly.



Rage run shift-->Shinkuu Nage-->Rasetsu, juggle with a early crouching strong-->Fierce Reppu Ken

Another random Otaku reset. When timed correctly(low strong hits as early as possible while still bieng cancelable) your opponent lands on the fierce Reppu Ken somewhat late, making it possible to get a slight amount of frame advantage after it. The maximum amount of advantage I've been able to get out of this situation is +3 I believe, as I was able to link a close standing forward after it on large crouching characters, although it was very difficult. The amount of advantage seems to vary greatly depending on how early you juggle with crouching strong. After the Reppu Ken is blocked you can ether Shinkuu Nage right where your standing or counter hit low jab linked into low roundhouse. For low jab to be affective in this situation however your opponent must land on the reppu ken as late as possible, otherwise Chun li or Bison can counter this with their own low jabs rather easily. Unfortunately, after you land your opponent is somewhat out of range for Rock's faster normals against most characters(They will hit some larger crouching characters, but who cares), like close standing short or forward and crouching strong. This makes your options limited as far as what you can do in this situation, which is why I think I often see Otaku go for forward or roundhouse Crack counter in this situation to beat counter throw attempts, which is rather risky. Honestly probably one of the worst variations at your disposal. If anyone has anything to add to this that might make it better feel free to mention something.


Rage run shift-->Shinkuu Nage-->Rasetsu, juggle with a early crouching strong-->Rage Run Save

Simplistic set up with a variety of variations. Rage Run Save moves you directly next to your opponent and recovers just before your opponent touches the ground, puting your opponent into a 50/50 situation. Your free to go for any standard mix up pattern, verifiable meaty crouching short linked into standing fierce-->jab Hard Edge(cancel fierce into a strong Reppu Ken if blocked), Rage Run shift-->Shinkuu Nage again, Shinkuu Nage, block for a sec-->fierce throw, or instant low jump roundhouse.

Against mid weights and larger characters you can switch out low short-->standing fierce--> jab Hard Edge for crouching short x 2, low forward-->fierce Hard Edge, which is a lot more flexible. If crouching short x 2 is blocked you can vary up with run up Shinkuu Nage, short run up counter hit low jab linked into low forward-->jab Hard Edge, or a hesitated crouching roundhouse.

Also note that instant low jump roundhouse is generally not very safe, hit or miss your opponent can combo or throw you as you land from it. Most players will react to it slowly the first time they see it however, in which case you can cancel your low jump recovery as you land into a Rage Run Shift-->Shinkuu Nage if they try to throw you when it's already too late to do so. Use with caution, mostly as a round ender when your opponents life is low.


Rage run shift-->Shinkuu Nage-->Rasetsu, juggle with a semi late standing jab

After the standing jab you can run or walk up and do any standard mix up pattern. This variation is slightly more flexible then other variations however simply because you recover faster and have more time to safely do other types of patterns. Run up crouching short/combo, Shinkuu Nage, Rage Run shift-->Shinkuu Nage again, block for a sec-->fierce throw, or instant low jump roundhouse are all ok patterns. You can also cancel the standing jab into a Rage Run Dunk, which will hit just as your opponent lands, which is somewhat convincing in running grooves as you need to run into range after standing jab for certain combos. Some players use the extra set up time you do a semi late low jump roundhouse, then as they land ether cancel the recovery into Rage Run Shift-->Shinkuu Nage to beat a throw attempt or land and go strait into a Shinkuu Nage if they just sit and block.

[ghengiskhang]

Originally posted by Kamui
Rock Shinkuu Nage resets and tactics

I'm gonna steal these if you don't mind. BULLRUSH!!!!

[eightysix]

When exactly do you cancel the laser in the Rock trap so that you can input a S.LP or C.MK right after it? I'm having some trouble with it.

Oh, and I discovered some new stuff on fighting Rolento today. If you can anticipate a knife, do an early J.LK to smack him out of it. Since it doesn't knockdown and sends them floating, a mixup to add after it is a low counter. Works probably once in a blue moon, but good to know incase you ever come across a sitation like it. And if Rolento likes running away when you're raged, punish them for it by baiting them to wall-bounce away from you and Rasing Storm it. Conversely, if they jump off the wall and fall straight down or just jump straight up to avoid a reppuken, Shining Knuckle them as they fall. Much more common than someone wall-bouncing right into you.

[Kamui]

Lol, not in the least. BULLRUSH 4 LIFE
Originally posted by ghengiskhang

I'm gonna steal these if you don't mind. BULLRUSH!!!!

[Ookima]

For those Rock setups, yeah you need to be sure they are confused already or already fearing you, cause I have done some of those setups before, and half the time if they just button mash a low jab or short will smack you out of the trap.

That said, I think my favorite trap is probably, shinku, blast, into low strong, shift, and shift again...

The first shift glitches and puts you infront of them kinda confusing...actually from here you can choose to shift again or go for a throw attemp...

and against non k and p grooves (well even again them...) stupid and old trap but it works... mid screen or farther, just spam fireball until and if you see a jump, then super them with shine knuckle.

360 throw setup
Most common is walk up standing short into 360. This works well again people that dont play rock a lot, but others will see a throw setup. This can be easily varied.
1.) Stand lk, instead of 360, do low lk, low mk into fireball or hardedge. If they try to counter the throw attemp, the low lk will counter hit, gives you free combo into low mk into elbow.
2.) This I believe I saw this from OTK...standing lk, the down strong into fireball or elbow...
3.) Low lk into 360 throw
4.) Low lk, stand lk into 360 (I believe both hits need to be blocked)
5.) Low jump hk, land and wait slightly, 360
6.) After blocked Jab Elbow. This is pure distance game. At the right distance, you recover with enough time and range to 360 throw. The best setup I can come up with is low lk, low lp, low mk into jab elbow, then 360. Timing is freaking weird, got it out only once or twice in real play. For me this is like an luck attempt, I don't do it too much because the timing is weird and I just can't get it down.

Anti Airs, standing RH for far
Low strong for close
After Low strong you can try to elbow to get close or fireball...basically setup pressure game, or just walk forward slightly to bait for a whiff or blocked super.

One last but randomly useful move is far standing fierce. LOL, this move has helped me out a few times, it's slow and bad range, but sometime you can use it to punish whiffs and this links to super...far away standing fierce into deadly rave...


BTW, I've read some where you can SJ HK blocked blanka ball?

[Buktooth]

Originally posted by eightysix
When exactly do you cancel the laser in the Rock trap so that you can input a S.LP or C.MK right after it? I'm having some trouble with it.
Just let go of the laser slightly early so that it hits meaty. It's pretty easy with like 2 minutes of practice.

Here's my favorite Rock reset:

teleport into corner, grab, laser, low strong, overhead low jump roundhouse, teleport into corner, grab again...

fun!

[misterbean97]

i'm pretty sure this has been asked before but could someone give me some quick strategies against solid C and K sagats. thanks guys. btw, so OTK really is coming to evo right?

[vasAZNion13]

Originally posted by Ookima
For those Rock setups, yeah you need to be sure they are confused already or already fearing you, cause I have done some of those setups before, and half the time if they just button mash a low jab or short will smack you out of the trap.


thanks to all the OTK vids, s.short has become a sign for the 360. don't forget to use mid/low counters on certain characters after the s.short.(i.e. against chunli there's a good chance that she might do c.jab after you do a s.short.)

[kcxj]

Originally posted by vasAZNion13


thanks to all the OTK vids, s.short has become a sign for the 360. don't forget to use mid/low counters on certain characters after the s.short.(i.e. against chunli there's a good chance that she might do c.jab after you do a s.short.)
That's why you do counter hit d.LK, d.HK (2 hit combo) or counter hit d.LK, d.MK xx deadly rave as well. Just because s.LK is something that's being used all over the place doesn't mean it still doesn't work.

Block against the opponents who try to super or dp you after the close s.LK too.

[Buktooth]

Since nobody's mentioned it yet, here's the single most abusable thing with Rock:

Throw out a lot of jab/strong elbows.

It's relatively fast, has monster priority, hard to jump over and knocks down on hit. With the knockdown you can then set up all that Rage Run or Shinkuu Nage trickery that everybody loves so much.

Here's the most important part: if the elbow is blocked, tap down/back to JD after. As some of you might have read in an old post of mine, if you're in the recovery of a move you're allowed to JD (or parry) one frame before you can block. This makes even badly spaced elbows very difficult to punish. Rock is usually at around low forward range after a blocked elbow, so if your opponent throws one of those out it's pretty much a free JD. Rock can punish most JDed low forwards in the game with a sweep (into mix up) or low forward xx super. This makes your opponents hesitant to attack after blocking an elbow, which gives you a chance to get in and do something... like more elbows.

[vasAZNion13]

what do you guys do against A-sak whoring dive kicks. the move seems pretty safe when i JD it. high counters work once in a while, but if they whiff the dive kick, it's a free shot at me when i whiff my counter(if they have decent reaction). at best my AA normals trade hits with the dive kick. diive often beats a head on collision with elbow dash. usually i'll go for j.short to cleaning hit her out of it, but i'd have to predict the dive kick for j.short to work.

anything rock has that can beat out sak's moves?

[ShinNeosnake]

Hmm, Whoring Dive Kicks?

You can AA with s.HK and trade hits, but you said that already.

You can always throw a repukken when you expect the dive kick, so you can force them to jump/roll when they dont want to, (when they land from the Dive Kick) When they jump, they can Dive kick again, but The only thing I can think of is to trade with AA (s.RH or c.strong)

[Masataka]

Can someone help me w/ how to beat Sagat? His c.lk is so dam annoying, i dunno what to do about it. I can't jump in because of Tiger uppercut, and running in to poke/shinkuu nage doesnt work cause he outranges me. My only hope it seems is to JD all 4/5 hits of the tiger uppercut, which i mess up on 90% of the time. Sometimes I can get the knockdown and then mixup him to death, but he usually gets out of it w/ the c.lk.

I tried to start counterin more of his pokes, but is there a more reliable answer?

[ShinNeosnake]

Throw a couple of repukkens at him, if he blocks it, you can run in and get closer. then you can probably mixup with RR:Shift Shinkuu NageXX Death, I tend to try to take it slowly, Small jump alot, thats the only way you'd prolly be able to leave the ground.

JUst play patiently, dont try to rush in all the time, zone him out, and especially, make him come to you.

[kcxj]

If Sagat is getting out of your offensive mixups with d.LK, then that means you need to go for more counter hits. Force the idea into his head that he CAN'T hit you after you've already hit him (after close s.LK or d.LK). Once he starts blocking up is the only time your throw mixups are going to work. Try this...

-close s.LK, (opponent now mashing on throw or d.LK because he thinks you're going to 360 him), counter hit d.MP xx shift, 360

The best of both worlds. You get the counter hit AND the grab when things work smoothly. d.MP is a 3 frame attack so it beats both blockers and mashers. The shift, 360 after that is really hard to react to. I actually don't even know how to get out myself, without having to resort to jump, when other people do it to me.

[vasAZNion13]

Originally posted by ShinNeosnake
Hmm, Whoring Dive Kicks?

You can AA with s.HK and trade hits, but you said that already.

You can always throw a repukken when you expect the dive kick, so you can force them to jump/roll when they dont want to, (when they land from the Dive Kick) When they jump, they can Dive kick again, but The only thing I can think of is to trade with AA (s.RH or c.strong)

i rather not rely on reppukens cuz rock has pretty slow recovery with reppukens. i may use it if they are half screen or farther away. dive kicks beats rock's c.fierce pretty cleanly :(
so stick with s.rh/c.mp

Originally posted by Masataka
Can someone help me w/ how to beat Sagat? His c.lk is so dam annoying, i dunno what to do about it. I can't jump in because of Tiger uppercut, and running in to poke/shinkuu nage doesnt work cause he outranges me. My only hope it seems is to JD all 4/5 hits of the tiger uppercut, which i mess up on 90% of the time. Sometimes I can get the knockdown and then mixup him to death, but he usually gets out of it w/ the c.lk.

I tried to start counterin more of his pokes, but is there a more reliable answer?

i agree with kcxj. most of sagat's move aren't very fast. giving rock lots of opporunity to get counter hits. watch out for sagat's who will try to DP their way out. see the DP cominig, block it, it's free combo for you

to get in on sagat. for me...i depend a lot on random elbows, JD sagat's ground normals, use counters only if the sagat player is getting really predictable

[eightysix]

Random high/medium counters to snuff out any C.HP/S.HP/S.HK spam from Sagat/Cammy.

Against Guile, JD a Sonic Boom and pump a medium counter right after it since a S.HK will be coming after it. It'll probably work once in the match, but it's just to let your opponent know that they aren't getting away with bs like that. Also, low counters snuff out C.MKs after a Sonic Boom if you're brave enough to challenge Guile's mixups. Just watch out for dash throws though.

Also, quick question. Do jab/medium elbows go under high Tiger Shots? Could be a good whiff punisher at the right distance.

[Masataka]

Sagat's high tiger shot will hit Rock in his hard edge.

Some things I've noticed w/ characters...

c.lk, c.lk, c.mk xx QCB + hp is a 5 hit combo vs. the whole cast...

for medium size to small characters... c.lk, c.lk, c.mk xx QCB + lp
is safe w/ JD (I dunno bout w/o it)

Large char. (Sagat, blanka, Honda, etc.) c.lk, c.lk, c.lk, c.mk xx QCB + lp is safe?

I haven't had time to test these at the arcades, and my friend is currently borrowin my PS 2, so can someone see if this works? Normally against large characters, i just do 2 c.lk's but I kno u can be punished after by Sagat. I'm not sure if you can link 3 in a row though. If it does work, it seems like a decent enough string to break guard, and u can easily see on reaction whether to do the elbow w/ fierce or jab.

[UCRJesse]

Originally posted by Masataka
Sagat's high tiger shot will hit Rock in his hard edge.

Some things I've noticed w/ characters...

c.lk, c.lk, c.mk xx QCB + hp is a 5 hit combo vs. the whole cast...

for medium size to small characters... c.lk, c.lk, c.mk xx QCB + lp
is safe w/ JD (I dunno bout w/o it)

Large char. (Sagat, blanka, Honda, etc.) c.lk, c.lk, c.lk, c.mk xx QCB + lp is safe?

I haven't had time to test these at the arcades, and my friend is currently borrowin my PS 2, so can someone see if this works? Normally against large characters, i just do 2 c.lk's but I kno u can be punished after by Sagat. I'm not sure if you can link 3 in a row though. If it does work, it seems like a decent enough string to break guard, and u can easily see on reaction whether to do the elbow w/ fierce or jab.

that combo isn't practical against the whole cast in cvs2 because it only works at point blank range and sometimes not even then... the qcb fierce is 50 50 as to whether it will be blocked or combo so it's an impractical combo unless you are looking for counterhits. low forward into jab elbow has a gap in it that can be rolled through, super, or dped, but is usually hard to punish after blcok

[gig4ls]

Originally posted by UCRollerblader


low forward into jab elbow has a gap in it that can be rolled through, super, or dped, but is usually hard to punish after blcok

It does? I'm sure you can combo it...in fact, against any character, I know you can combo a c mk xx qcb+mp, although sometimes I can't get the c mk xx qcb+hp, I think that really depends on distance and opponent character's size.

[Masataka]

Sorry, I forgot to put that you have to be at point blank for it... I didn't mean for it to be a b&b combo but meant to use it as a reference to my block string. and thanks for tellin me that it can be broken out of, i forgot that if it doesnt combo, all those answers work.

gig4ls, i'm pretty sure what ucrollerblader means is that at that range, after 2 or 3 c.lk's, qcb + lp will not be a combo. so yes, it's entirely dependent on distance and character size.

so yes, everybody should ignore my earlier post. big big mistake posting that...

another question i hav is, is there anyway to try to punish a tiger raid from sagat? (qcb x 2 + k). someone told me to throw, but i cant even do it if i jam the button b/c i always get tiger uppercutted and i really want the knockdown.

[vasAZNion13]

Originally posted by Masataka

another question i hav is, is there anyway to try to punish a tiger raid from sagat? (qcb x 2 + k). someone told me to throw, but i cant even do it if i jam the button b/c i always get tiger uppercutted and i really want the knockdown.

lvl 2 tiger raid has -2 frame advantage, while lvl 3 is -3 i think. lvl 1 tiger raid is -7, which is why most people dont' use lvl 1's with sagat(pllus the lack of invicibility). this is why the 50/50 mixup of either tiger uppercut or throw works really well. best thing to do is try to tech a throw, or do a lvl 3 super that's safe. ( i.e. deadly rave or raging storm).

you can, if you feel lucky, do a high counter right away. i'm not sure what the frame startup is for tiger uppercut, but ii think you can pull it out a counter before tiger uppercut hits.

if i read correctly from kcxj's thread, counters have 3 frame startup. so that means it's safe against lvl 3 tiger raid(if you read the DP right). and against lvl 2, it should work since the DP has to have at least 1+ frame startup...

EDIT:
here's a little thing i experienced. sometimes when sagat does tiger raid, and i'm able to duck under it...AND i'm raged. i try to do shine knuckle right as he passes over me. i don't seem to be fast enough to catch him before he recovers. has anyone been able to do this?

[Buktooth]

Originally posted by vasAZNion13
EDIT:
here's a little thing i experienced. sometimes when sagat does tiger raid, and i'm able to duck under it...AND i'm raged. i try to do shine knuckle right as he passes over me. i don't seem to be fast enough to catch him before he recovers. has anyone been able to do this?
Yes, many characters can do that. Rock does it easier than most since his super is so fast. I'm 90% sure he can just fierce elbow also if he ducks under it.

And a bit of advice, never try to high counter uppercuts unless you're just going for style points. If you're that sure an uppercut is coming, just block it and punish it with a combo. Much more damage at much less risk to yourself.

[Ookima]

another thing about the 2 l.shorts, l. mk into hp hardedge is not only do you have to be close, you also have to input the 3 hits before the hp hardedge fast, if you do it a bit slow and even if the 3 hits chain, the hardedge will be blocked.

I think I will agree with Buk, I am also pretty sure that you can chase after the raid.

[ZenFire]

I was thinking about Rock matchups about a week ago because I was losing against Sagat a lot, and cammy was just destroying me. I came up with the a couple of things, some of which have (kinda) allready been mentioned:

vs Cammy
1) throw reppukens from half screen and beyond
Her jump isn't fast enough to get to you if she jumps on reaction. Of course if she anticipates it you're screwed, but that's with everything. Punish her reaction. Her slow roll can probably be "shining knuckle'd" easily.

2) Alpha counter HK ????
Don't know if this works yet, so I won't say more. It should though, since s.hk recovers slow and leaves her at -8 normally.

3) lp.Rising-tackle between pokes
Has pretty good priority and even though it's anything but safe, it'll probably work since cammy players may not be used to getting interrupted

4) max range RC lp.Elbow (the range is almost exactly half a screen)
I can't say if the invincibility lasts until it hits, but it will cover Rock for part of the start up wich might help go through a s.hk or drill

vs Sagat
1) s.mp beats Sagat's cr.hp at certain ranges
The fact that it can beat it out cleanly will probably never come into play, since the range for that to happen is pretty far. However it's still a good poke he can't duck under. Safe if rolled through and jumped over. As long as you time it early enough you'll beat sagat to the punch. Possibly useful vs lowjumps.

2) Same elbow stuff as against cammy

3) Reppuken at half screen, again, good option.
Sagat's jump is miserable for moving forward, however his j.hk will trade with you're st.rh and cr.hp AA's a lot. So maybe a Shininkg knuckle when you have it.

4) A fun fact, you can shining knuckle through tiger shots
They have horrible recovery, should not be a problem from around half screen, any further is risky.

vs Everyone
1) run sweep
I do this sooo much. He has a great sweep, I just da a very short run and sweep, hope for a knockdown, then work that okizeme.

[eightysix]

S.LK, close S.HP xx QCB+LP

Your opponent seeing right through that 360 grab setup and hitting you back? This should work nicely to make them think twice about it. Pretty safe on block too since the S.LK and the S.HP push you back far enough so that the elbow is hard to punish. You can always JD after it if you're not feeling safe too if you have it.

C.LK, C.HK

Thanks to Rock's super duper fast sweep, it's possible to get a counter hit after this. Since the C.LK wields a +6 on hit/block the 5-frame startup sweep should have no trouble getting in there. It's also possible to combo it WITHOUT the counter-hit without trying too hard to link it. Sweet.

close S.MP, C.MK xx QCB+LP
Another mixup against the taller characters like Sagat. Like the first setup, pushback is far enough so you won't get punished.

[ZenFire]

Ok, forget what I said about Reppukens vs Sagat. His roll is fast and since the recovery on Reppuken sucks, Sagat can roll -> cr.hp and still hit you a lot of the time. So I only think it's a good option from at LEAST 3/4 screen away.

I also learnt it's not so smart to cr.hk as your only option after running. It's like asking to be roll-supered.

[kcxj]

Who started the misconception that Rock's reppukens have super fast recovery anyway? Believe it or not, Ryu's hadoukens actually have faster startup, less recovery, and shorter total animation time than Rock's reppukens. This in no way means Rock's fireball is no good though. The Rock player needs to really know his ranges that's all.

Practice this with Sagat. Stand exactly at midrange and jump over a reppuken on reaction, j.HK, far s.HP xx high tiger super. Take that all you OTK fanboy nerds. :lol:

[ZenFire]

I don't think that any experienced players ever thought that. Some might have gotten that impression seeing Otaku running after them more often than not.

On the other hand, fullscreen reppukens are pretty safe and also pretty badass.

[ZenFire]

Ok, I'm going to stop pretending I know how to play this game and actually ask a question.

When someone walks up to you and they have a small jump/fast roll and they're just inside your sweep range... what do you do? I've become afraid of getting my sweep attempt beat by one of the two things I just mentioned. So I mix it up with cr.mk xx lp.Elbow, but unfortunately it gets beat just as easily. Right now I'm even considering using st.lk instead just so I can punish the roll and block the smj, afterwards if it connects I just dash back or attack.

When I play Rock I either want to be pressuring during okizeme, throwing out safe elbows or long distance reppukens. But then they get in closer and this is where they can smalljump/roll over/through whatever I do. And just standing there waiting seems like an awefully silly thing to do.

If I don't feel I can predict their action should I stick to the st.lk? should I maybe start using st.mp more? RC hp.Reppuken?

[Rock-sama]

Originally posted by Buktooth88

Yes, many characters can do that. Rock does it easier than most since his super is so fast. I'm 90% sure he can just fierce elbow also if he ducks under it.

And a bit of advice, never try to high counter uppercuts unless you're just going for style points. If you're that sure an uppercut is coming, just block it and punish it with a combo. Much more damage at much less risk to yourself.

ive never tried but cant u just f.rising tackle?

hmmm :lol: :lol: i never really thought about just blocking a wakeup uppercut instead of crackcounter i mean i do block but if i feel that someone is gonna wakeup dp then i highcounter and if they dont sometimes they are like stunned and dont punish and i shift

[UCRJesse]

Originally posted by Rock-sama


ive never tried but cant u just f.rising tackle?

hmmm :lol: :lol: i never really thought about just blocking a wakeup uppercut instead of crackcounter i mean i do block but if i feel that someone is gonna wakeup dp then i highcounter and if they dont sometimes they are like stunned and dont punish and i shift

haha, always better to do a combo... either way they'll be wary of doing uppercuts, then you get supadupa mixups

[instubus]

I am having truoble against A-iori:

the guy waits for me to do a poke; roll, throw or roll into custom.

do a fireball; roll, throw.

i just wait for him to attack; roll, throw or just plain walk up to me and throw or wait for me to attack, roll then throw.

iori's roll is just way too fast and i can't defend it on reaction. i can't get distance because he just rolls up to me until i'm cornered. i guess i'd also have the same problems against any roll groove iori's but i have never played against anyone decent in c or n.

how do you beat an iori that seems to almost roll on reaction?

[ZenFire]

Hey instubus
I admit fast rolls are damn annoying (read my previous post), but if he does it as much as what you make it sound like... it SHOULD not be a problem.

Throwing ppl out of rolls is an option, but only safe when they start rolling near you. Too far away and you might whiff a HP/HK if you do it too early, or you wait too long and either tech their throw or eat super/dp.

I think throwing out safe pokes is your best option, by that I mean pokes that cannot be punished when rolled or jumped on reaction (or even simultaneously). You can throw out lk's and lp's.

Punish the roll with a combo starting from cr.lp, cus those are fast and you'll very likely catch them during the roll's vulnerability stage. You can stick them out like there's no tomorrow with little to fear.

Things like run-jabs are hard to roll through not only because of the blockstun, but also because the attacker can se ethe roll and then just sit there and cr.lp as you recover from the roll. You could try that.

[UCRJesse]

Originally posted by ZenFire
Punish the roll with a combo starting from cr.lp, cus those are fast and you'll very likely catch them during the roll's vulnerability stage. You can stick them out like there's no tomorrow with little to fear.

if you see a roll, you might be better off just punishing with low forward into elbow or super since rock has relatively slow jabs.

to the guy having problems with iori rolling, heres a few more suggestions, zenfire covered most of it....

don't throw reppukens from a range where iori can easily roll through and hit you. don't throw out a sweep or low forward if you think he's going to roll. go to training mode, set the computer on roll into block, and learn when the roll is vulnerable if you're really having that many problems... or fuck it, just do a 360, that move has a lot of range

[Mickey D']

New to Rock

Hey guys i'm new at using Rock right now and i using him in one his more generic grooves....P. I really like his mix up and i know that he doesn't benefit off of a parry very much (or does he?) anyways I really like this guys mix up but i still have a few questions to ask....could you answer them for me:

1. What is the "Rock Trap" I remember reading in a faq from gamefaqs.com that the Rock trap was basically throwing a bunch of repukens (from full screen) and waiting to see if the opponent does any thing other than block it. The FAQ basically stated that if your opponent does anything but JD the repuken, parry it, or block it, you can throw out a lv. 3 shining finger and it will always hit. Is this true?

2. Rock's mixup is astounding! i've learned that you can trick a lot of people by doing c.lk, c.lp strings! What are some of your guys better mixups?

3. What are some of Rock's better low jumping attacks? Does low jump even benefit him very much? I do notice that if i do: c.lk, c.lk, lj lk, rage run shift....this is a very quick move....but i want to know if his low jump is very good....what are yur guys' input?

4. My most important ordeal...What do i do when my opponent gets close!? this may seem like a very newbie like question, however i feel very stuck when my opponent begins to pressure/ rush down my Rock.

Thankx for all the help

[Masataka]

I've never figured out what the "Rock Trap" that Grolin's faq was talking about but I think it's just throwing reppukens until u lvl 3 shining knuckle when they try to retaliate or raging storm on jump ins. Kcxj posted another Rock Trap where you just knockdown your opponent in the corner, and then perform a meaty QCF x HP, and throw if they block, HP rising tackle if they counter.

I'm pretty bad w/ Rock's mixups, but I dash a lot in P groove, and when I get a knockdown, here's a couple things I do:

1)dash, dash over body, trip
2)dash, dash over body, c.lk, c.mk xx repukken or hardedge depending block or hit
3)dash, dash over body, rage run shift xx 360, break, HP elbow
4)dash, dash over body, low jump up HK
a)rage run shift...
b)reppuken
c)parry low
5)dash, throw

If you can't tell, I really like Rock's dash. His low jump Roundhouse is very good, I think slightly worse then Sagat's. It's very hard to respond to. When my opponent gets close, it goes into the footsies game. It'll be a lot of walking back and forth and jabbing, but try to catch your opponent unaware by dashing/running in and tripping, or faking a fireball and dashing up for a throw/combo.

Also, can someone tell me what Zenfire means by okizeme? Is that a move name?

[ZenFire]

1. Fullscreen reppukens: you can wait to see them jump or roll and you can catch them most of the time. There's a post somewhere about how the shining knuckle (not finger :p) was better in beta versions or something and that that trap now no longer works. Probably has to do with the speed and or freeze time.

2. I am now convinced that run-jabs lead to his best mixups, only if I can learn to dominate run into 360. It's not that hard but if I try to do it quickly I allways end up doing hard-edge. The reason I think this is best and better than Okizeme is because after a knockdown you have to keep safe-falls, tactical recovery AND wake-up super/dp in mind. But with run-jabs only well timed reversal moves will stuff you.

3. I only do lj.hk
It's pretty good because of its vertical reach. I do it during matches where I'm afraid to get my sweep or c.mk stuffed/rolled.

4. Try to stick a jab in there and gain some frame advantage, from there retake the initiative. If you can't or they try to counterhit your jab, then perhaps it's time to stick out a nice Crack Counter to make them think twice about pressuring you. It's by no means guaranteed or safe, but other than a rising tackle (which is useless against rushdowns that involve overheads) it's one of the best moves to get you clear.

Okizeme is wake-up mindgames/mixups/pressure or simply post-knockdown offence, I think it originated from the Tekken world, cus that's where I first heard it.

[CrimsonDisaster]

The whole Rock "trap" thing is so stupid that it works sometimes. There's a bunch of ways that make it much harder for Rock to punish things with Shine Knuckle on reaction.
Though it still works on occasion, if you can get that far away from your opponent, especially on slow people who can't RC =P

[RagingStormX]

Rock is dope.

[vasAZNion13]

wtf? that's the rock trap?

i always thought it was the "double reppuken in the corner risingtackle/runshift/360 mixup"

[RagingStormX]

There are basically 2 Rock "traps". There is the corner d.repukken then shift/throw/RT/super mix-up, and there is the throw a repukken from far away if they jump/roll shine knuck them (Kamui actually did this to me last regioanl, lol). The d.repukken is -4 after being blocked, so unless your opponent has a 2 frame dp/jab, you can do those mix-ups because your opponent has to perfectly time your attack or throw to punish it, which is hard. It works sometimes, but it just a guessing game really. The throw repukken one works, which is stupid. I hate you Adam, lol.

[vasAZNion13]

There are basically 2 Rock "traps". There is the corner d.repukken then shift/throw/RT/super mix-up, and there is the throw a repukken from far away if they jump/roll shine knuck them (Kamui actually did this to me last regioanl, lol). The d.repukken is -4 after being blocked, so unless your opponent has a 2 frame dp/jab, you can do those mix-ups because your opponent has to perfectly time your attack or throw to punish it, which is hard. It works sometimes, but it just a guessing game really. The throw repukken one works, which is stupid. I hate you Adam, lol.


which is why the trap works so well, it's hard to time throws since punch throws are 3 frames startup, so you have to land it in a 1 frame almost on time before you get supered/rising tackle/runshifted. kick throws aren't an option. the only problem is if you do rising tackle and they decide to blcok, you're kind of screwed...but it's really hard to resist punishing the point blank double reppuken since it looks sooooooooo punishable. rising tackle works almost all the time if you mix it up well enough during the rest of your rock game.

[ZenFire]

Does anyone know of good Rocks other than Otaku's? I don't think Kichinii's rock is that great and I don't play Rock in A. Ino stopped playing rock ages ago, which is too bad, cus I'm sure he could have come up with some nasty stuff had he stuck with him.

[vasAZNion13]

Does anyone know of good Rocks other than Otaku's? I don't think Kichinii's rock is that great and I don't play Rock in A. Ino stopped playing rock ages ago, which is too bad, cus I'm sure he could have come up with some nasty stuff had he stuck with him.
combofiend...?

[ZenFire]

I thought he played Rock in A-groove too.

[Neo Odin]

Yes He Does and he's pretty good with him too..

[blood_dancer]

Here's a simple tip that works best against Eagle, Rolento, Kyo, and Terry.


Just do a Rage Run :qcf: :hk: , Then mix it up with a Shinkuu Nage (360 degrees) :hp: , And then the Cancel move :3p: .

Just don't bother against Shin Akuma or anyone with Low hitting moves(Nakoruru)

[kcxj]

Here's a simple tip that works best against Eagle, Rolento, Kyo, and Terry.


Just do a Rage Run :qcf: :hk: , Then mix it up with a Shinkuu Nage (360 degrees) :hp: , And then the Cancel move :3p: .

Just don't bother against Shin Akuma or anyone with Low hitting moves(Nakoruru)
Hell yeah. I do that roll canceled and from full screen away for best results.

Running through a fireball, grabbing the other guy while he's still in his recovery = dope :badboy: :devil:

[Killerbuzz]

what kind of tips do ya'll have for a starter Rock?

[SmoothCat]

be patient its hard to get in with him. his sweep is good but dont try abuse it like new rock players do , roll super willl fuck that up lol

[Neo Odin]

Yeah it is hard to get in with him, I also have slight trouble with sagat, by the way I use A-rock.

For a beginner rock player I would say bating the opponent with lp reppukens is nice, i see combofiend do this a lot, he plays his rock kind of simple and so he told me. When the opponent has a level 3 though be carefull of baiting with reppukens.

Dont do them to close to the opponent, and your basically seeing how they react, if they see it and try to jump, s.FK that shit ect...

[vasAZNion13]

Just do a Rage Run :qcf: :hk: , Then mix it up with a Shinkuu Nage (360 degrees) :hp: , And then the Cancel move :3p: .


how do you "mix it up" wwhen you only stated one option.

[Killerbuzz]

which one is the reppuken? i think i have an idea, but not sure

[Neo Odin]

the fireball.

[UCRJesse]

how do you "mix it up" wwhen you only stated one option.

omgz ur such a n00b3rz LoLz! you either to throw with weak punch hard punch or medium punch then mixup between cancelling the throw and just letting him do that cool arm motion

[FreddyL0c0]

euh I also don't see how thats a mixup, its basically cancelling the special move...and euh its not character specific.

[Leezy]

So you double reppuken in the corner...
JD/Parry and eat it
RC anything at least trades, but high attacks will feed you your own ass
All level 3s and most level 2s will punish you
If you're timing is off you get tossed like salad

So yeah, this "trap" isn't all that great. I would know, I've been using Rock for a while now. Getting in with him is easy...at least in K. I'd say you do have to be creative to find openings. Plus, you do need to change your tactics depending on the characters and grooves that you're facing. He's not a good character to start out with, but I was bored when I picked him up, and now he's fun to use.

[Neo Odin]

Yeah, he's definetly fun, I happen to use him in A-groove, I've been using him for a while as well. That D.Reppuken trap has more cons than pros I agree.

Fight On:karate:

[vasAZNion13]

So you double reppuken in the corner...
JD/Parry and eat it
RC anything at least trades, but high attacks will feed you your own ass
All level 3s and most level 2s will punish you
If you're timing is off you get tossed like salad

So yeah, this "trap" isn't all that great. I would know, I've been using Rock for a while now. Getting in with him is easy...at least in K. I'd say you do have to be creative to find openings. Plus, you do need to change your tactics depending on the characters and grooves that you're facing. He's not a good character to start out with, but I was bored when I picked him up, and now he's fun to use.

1-K-groove/P-groove: i think they might still mess up the JD/parry timing since there's TWO hits of it. also, the first hit might be somewhat ambigous to time, if you dont' get it on the first hit, then you won't get the 2nd hit for sure
2-RCs:i'm assuming they have to roll reversal to get you with RC's, which means it's still worth the risk once a while. if not, oh well...
3-lvl3/2: just dont' go for this "trap" if you see them with bar?

well i'm not saying that this "trap" is good, it's just nice to have options. having this trap forces your opponent to guess more during the game(if you ever get to throw reppukens in the corner). you also have that shine knuckle "trap", which i think is kind of stupid in K-groove since all they have to do is NOT jump when they see a slow ass reppuken coming at them, and just wait for you to either run out of bar or burn the super.

[Neo Odin]

Man I was doing good with K rock today until I had to play against sagat and I was raped in every position possible, drowning the dolphin you name it.

What the hell do you do or can you do against sagat in K?

[ZenFire]

Figur out something that works consistently and you're my hero. This was my hardest matchup when I still played Rock. There's some stuff earlier in this thread, but no miracle drug.

[Neo Odin]

Yeah his C.Fp has way more range than your c.Fk at least I think so it beats it out every time, then again what doesnt his c.fp beat out?:lol:

[ZenFire]

Crack counter

[Neo Odin]

I know:lol: but when im trying to zone I find it twice as hard I find it slightly hard to get in as well, maybe I should just reppuken him and see what he does, that way I can see how he reacts, the again hell probally just JD that shit, or jump over, I use rock as battery just to let you know , he just uses his Sagat R2 first, I do well with Geese Vs Sagat matches though, Geese just has the ability to Rush Down and zone where Rock best at zoning. He always seems to keep me out of range somehow, its alright though bro I'll find some type of counter strategy for his cheap turtling sagat. (maybe cheap is to harsh)

Fight On:nunchuck

[vasAZNion13]

I know:lol: but when im trying to zone I find it twice as hard I find it slightly hard to get in as well, maybe I should just reppuken him and see what he does, that way I can see how he reacts, the again hell probally just JD that shit, or jump over, I use rock as battery just to let you know , he just uses his Sagat R2 first, I do well with Geese Vs Sagat matches though, Geese just has the ability to Rush Down and zone where Rock best at zoning. He always seems to keep me out of range somehow, its alright though bro I'll find some type of counter strategy for his cheap turtling sagat. (maybe cheap is to harsh)

Fight On:nunchuck

use far s.strong. if he tries to keep you out by using fierces, crack counter cuz it'll be more predictable once you leave him only the option to fierce you outside of your s.strong range. although this doesn't give you a big advantage, it gives the sagat player more to think about.

[chester27]

Can anyone give me strategy versus Sagat by the way I'm using K-groove.

[Neo Odin]

They gave me a little help above with the same problem, read above.

[Leezy]

Sagat isn't a good match for Rock, but most Sagat players are players of habit. JDing everything is a start, but if you're not comfortable with that, DO NOT COUNTER. If you whiff a counter, Sagat has the option of punishing you any way his big ass wants to. Plus, the crouching fierce is mid, so if you use the mid counter, you can expect to eat a crouching forward. Small jump roundhouse/forward are the main answers to crouching fierce. Jump over it and punish. Kick him early and command grab when you land (most Sagats will see the early kick and try to jab or short, which will allow you to toss them). Mix up small jumps and regular jumps, just make sure you can JD everything when you regular jump. If your reaction is hella good, standing short, standing/crouching forward, crouching roundhouse can hit a whiffed fierce. In my opinion, K-Rock against any Sagat is 50/50.

[vasAZNion13]

about the small jump rh/foward. i find it hard to use. i do it often but i'll eat sagat's j.rh, and if the opponent is really keen, he'll DP my small jumps

i'm a little against the "DO NOT DO COUNTERS" part. even though sagat can either mid or low hit you. if you're playing footsies with sagat and you find a pattern. i recommend doing the counter, since it'll really help your game if you can get in. however don't counter if you can't figure out any pattern.

a little side note.


if you're on fire and the momentum is in your favor.

after a knockdown, do s.short, low counter. if you pressured them really badly (and made your opponent know that you can bait DP's well), then you can probably low counter them easily, since most sagat players 'mash' on c.short when you're doing a blockstring

[Mickey D']

Medium counters against Sagat when outside of s./d. hp

[ZenFire]

How hard is it to punish a whiffed Sagat c.hp with Rock's c.mk?
I don't have the game with me, so I can't reall tell.

[Leezy]

How hard is it to punish a whiffed Sagat c.hp with Rock's c.mk?
I don't have the game with me, so I can't reall tell.

It's really hard. You have to be a pixel outside of his hit range and hit mk as soon as he pulls back his fist. Too early gets you popped by priority, too late leaves your mk hanging. If you JD it, though, you win big time. I tend to standing short his crouching fierces and standing jab his standing fierces. It's still hard to hit him, but if you whiff it isn't punishable. JDing and parrying are the best ways to deal with Sagat, but RCing jab and strong burn knuckles works well if you're good with the distances. Staying close helps too, his reach and speed are what kill the most.

[ZenFire]

I was afraid of that. Sagat's c.hp has pretty good recovery for a strong attack. So I'm guessing you have absolutely no time to walk up closer and punish, right?

[Leezy]

Run, yes. Walk...maybe. Vega, Chun, Bison...anyone with a really fast walk

[chester27]

I'm playing Rock this past few days and i'm still having hard time using footies with them.

does Rock has poking abilities versus long arm characters?

[ZenFire]

I think footsies just aren't his forte. Since IMO c.mk xx something would be your preferred whiff punisher, you've only got a chance vs characters that don't outrange you. Too bad there's no magic bullet for mathups like the one vs sagat.

[kcxj]

Sweep goes under Sagat's far s.HP. Rock can naturally duck under Sagat's far s.HP. Sweep hits faster than Sagat's crouching fierce. K-Rock has high prioriy low jump HK's. Rock also has outstanding zoning abilities against all big characters with his reppukens and far s.HK.

Once you get a knockdown, the trick is to not let up on your mixups anyway. Play him like the momentum character he's meant to be played as and stop complaining that he's not the footsies specialist like a character such as Guile, Sagat, or Chun might be.

When Sagat whiffs a d.HP for example, you need to be on the lookout and really quick on your reaction time to take the opportunity to run in and sweep. You might not cleanly punish the whiff, but if Sagat tries anything outside of just block or dp (and dp is risky/semi-random), he's going to get counter hit sweep. Run up 360 grab counters the block and grabs from MAD far away. Either way, as long as you're successful with the knockdown, you have to keep following up on Sagat with the mixups until he's dead. Like you guys have all said already, footgames isn't Rock's strong point, so stop trying to play him like he's all about them.

edit: Oh yeah, random jab elbow all day. You guys aren't fighting against Sakura with her cheap, 3 frame far s.LK and you guys have K-groove to shorten your elbow recovery time. What's K-Sagat going to do when he's running at you and you throw a random jab elbow at him for example?

[chester27]

thanks i'm looking forward to use this strat hope it works tommorow. :P

[ShinNeosnake]

Random Jab elbows are good, don't do it too close or you get killed. High priority, he counts as being airborne so if he gets hit, he'll pop back. Good safe way to get in (when distanced correctly) if people try to attack you, JD because you can JD 1 frame before you are allowed to block. After JD, usually you can punish with a sweep.

Random Note: Elbows go over Rolento's Tripwire.

s.HK is a good anti air, but that isn't his only anti air, people need to realize this, c.Fierce works well since Rock's elbow sticks out and the rest of his body is below his elbow. c.Strong is good as an anti-crossup.

Don't use Rage Run: Dunk (lk) too much, sure you might catch someone off guard once or twice, but that is so rare its not even worth the risk.

Rage Run: Stop (mk) is not good, even RCed its not that good, you can run through fireballs but most normals recover in time to punish Rock.

Rage Run: Shift (hk) master Rage Run: ShiftXX 360 Throw XX whatever you want. Rock has 13 frames (IIRC) of invunerablity when he actually shifts through the opponent, Shift XX 360 throw leads to mind games, especially when in corner.

Run up sweep works well when you want to get in, don't do this all the time though, people aren't stupid and will try to hit you when you are running.

[vasAZNion13]

Random Jab elbows are good, don't do it too close or you get killed. High priority, he counts as being airborne so if he gets hit, he'll pop back. Good safe way to get in (when distanced correctly) if people try to attack you, JD because you can JD 1 frame before you are allowed to block. After JD, usually you can punish with a sweep.

Random Note: Elbows go over Rolento's Tripwire.

s.HK is a good anti air, but that isn't his only anti air, people need to realize this, c.Fierce works well since Rock's elbow sticks out and the rest of his body is below his elbow. c.Strong is good as an anti-crossup.

Don't use Rage Run: Dunk (lk) too much, sure you might catch someone off guard once or twice, but that is so rare its not even worth the risk.

Rage Run: Stop (mk) is not good, even RCed its not that good, you can run through fireballs but most normals recover in time to punish Rock.

Rage Run: Shift (hk) master Rage Run: ShiftXX 360 Throw XX whatever you want. Rock has 13 frames (IIRC) of invunerablity when he actually shifts through the opponent, Shift XX 360 throw leads to mind games, especially when in corner.

Run up sweep works well when you want to get in, don't do this all the time though, people aren't stupid and will try to hit you when you are running.


just some side notes

random jabs: i do this a lot and i eat rc funky kick from ken all the time. and it seems like ken's the only one who really hurts my random jabs. but it's not really that important.

i rarely use s.rh, i think i should more cuz sometimes my c.fierce gets snuffed by certain attacks like sagat's j.rh. s.rh would probably have been more useful.

qcb+lk: imo, this move shouldn't be used at all, rock has enough mind games already. plus this move has kind of a low risk/reward benefit. occasionally it comes out for me when i try to do c.fwd xx deadly rave, and negative edge the move out. :/

qcb+mk: i'm not sure if it's that useless, it seems kind of beneficial to A-rock. i.e. normal xx qcb+mk, activate. saw it in a vid :/

qcb+hk: no comment, already been discussed a lot.

run/sweep: sometimes i find myself doing this like 3-4 times(often times blocked all 3-4 times) in a row cuz 1)they look for my jump ins, 2) my random elbows got punished due to poor spacing. outside of those, i can't really find a way to get in.

[ShinNeosnake]

QCB+MK, Activate. I saw that in a vid too.

As hard as it is to admit it, I dunno how to get in either, I find ways but I don't know what I did to get in, sorta like Im not paying attention to what Im doing. I should pay more attention and think about what Im doing.

Raging Storm as anti-air, must be done when the opponent is at the apex of his jump, either that or Blanka, Mai, and Vega get free jump in's because of their quick falling speed while jumping. Not sure about charging the super. When I have done a 360 throw and cancelled it in the corner, I tend to do raging storm more than Shine Knuckle, is the damage the same or what, I never tested this.

Shine Knuckle can be comboed into or used as a punisher from full screen if someone throws a fireball or does a laggy move. The Repukken trick doesn't work anymore, people have better ways to nullify the fireball.

Neo Deadly Rave, comboed into, and rarely, used to blow through an expected attack. If you catch someone blocking, you can chip them out because at the end the blast does lots of chip, if connected you can also forget about the blast and do a different follow up such as s.fierceXXhard edge.

[vasAZNion13]

QCB+MK, Activate. I saw that in a vid too.

As hard as it is to admit it, I dunno how to get in either, I find ways but I don't know what I did to get in, sorta like Im not paying attention to what Im doing. I should pay more attention and think about what Im doing.

Raging Storm as anti-air, must be done when the opponent is at the apex of his jump, either that or Blanka, Mai, and Vega get free jump in's because of their quick falling speed while jumping. Not sure about charging the super. When I have done a 360 throw and cancelled it in the corner, I tend to do raging storm more than Shine Knuckle, is the damage the same or what, I never tested this.

Shine Knuckle can be comboed into or used as a punisher from full screen if someone throws a fireball or does a laggy move. The Repukken trick doesn't work anymore, people have better ways to nullify the fireball.

Neo Deadly Rave, comboed into, and rarely, used to blow through an expected attack. If you catch someone blocking, you can chip them out because at the end the blast does lots of chip, if connected you can also forget about the blast and do a different follow up such as s.fierceXXhard edge.


qcb+mk, activate: must have been from video opera

raging storm: a nice simple mixup for it. since after that rock neta all have been released, everyone looks out for s.short xx 360. if you got them knockdown in the corner. do stand there and do nothing till they get up, do s.short, and block until you see them jump.^^

shine knuckle: i'm not sure why, but c.shortx2, s.short xx shine knuckle is a lot easier to hit confirm than c.shortx2, s.short xx deadly rave. that's the only time i combo into shine knuckle.

deadly rave: i only use this to burn bar :/ c.mk xx deadly rave all the way.

[ph!Lop!a]

i suck with rock.

random C groove corner combo vs. 60 stun point characters:

j.fk, land, close s.fp* XX fk run > shift, 360 throw, [hold down], charge PP, early laser, lp rising tackle, land, lvl 2 raging storm, [hold down], fp rising tackle**, (opponent dizzy)...then whatever.

i like too run > shift, 360 throw, [hold down], charge PP, early laser, fp rising tackle. does decent damage and builds your meter.

*run and shift happens while your opponent is reeling back
**do it as low as possible

tested on rolento it does about 8500+ points of damage and builds up almost a full meter, giving you almost 2 meter to play with after using 2 meters in a combo...good stuff.

[Exodus777]

Sup guys it's been a while since I posted any Rock strats but it all boils down to good/bad match ups. In my experience I think ROCK OWNS ALL GIRL CHARACTERS, with a slight advantage to Athena,Hibiki and MAYBE K-Groove Cammy. In my opinion K-Groove is like a double edged sword for Rock it can help him a lot, but in my opinion it can really fuck his game up, cause he cant use his best poke Cr.RH.

I'm gonna rate the match-ups as Excellent,Good,Netural,Bad,and Fuck-it.

(on a side note I'm going off of my tourney exp. here even though I'm not a "TOP" player I've won a few tourneys in the ATL south as well as placed respectivley in the tournies I compete in, and it's not rare for me to go to a tourney around here and get 4th place with my "Team Southtown" against all kind of top-tier cheeze balls.

Capcom side

Bison/Neutral- This match-up isn't all that hard for Rock, just don't telegraph his reppu-ken. Crack counters work well against Bison cause it's kind of easy to see a sissor knee, or a psycho crusher.


Blanka/Neutral Contrary to popular belief Rock can win this one, the reason people lose this fight is that they try to fight him on the ground and that might not be the wisest thing to do, unles you are using the SJ RH. I tend to fight him from the air. Remember he can wakeup reverse
his high Crack Counter, for those wise asses that like to RC the electricity after every thing.


Balrog/Excellent- The only thing to worry about from Balrog is his crouching RH which will own yours for free, other than that feel free to pretty much execute whatever you want. Mainly CH.Rh.

That's it for now guys I'll keep on updating ....

[SmoothCat]

rock cant beat blanka son

[No D]

rock cant beat blanka son
WHY? :lame:

[AngelOfRage]

rock cant beat blanka son
care to tell us why?

ive never had a problem playing against Blanka with my Rock.

[Cammy_Toes]

i think fierce reppukens snuff out rolls cause of the double hit.

[kcxj]

i think fierce reppukens snuff out rolls cause of the double hit.
That's the most disgusting screen name ever.

[UCRJesse]

care to tell us why?

ive never had a problem playing against Blanka with my Rock.

because blanka is fucking broken and rock is not

[Southtown'King]

Let me ask a Question yall play rock but be serious which one is better KIm or Rock

[vasAZNion13]

Let me ask a Question yall play rock but be serious which one is better KIm or Rock

K-rock > C-kim

C/A/P/N/K-kim > any other groove rock.

S-kim = S-rock

[Ouroborus]

a kim > everything

[Southtown'King]

Kim? dangv cause im not having luck with k kim?

[Leezy]

No one has luck with K-Kim... =(

[vasAZNion13]

N-rock:

cons, loses the Jd--> sweep knockdown and safe elbows. how big does this affect rock?

2-3 supers with "safe" random supers

pros
-he gets rc jab elbow(which is not as safe as it would have been in K-groove).
-he can break stock when he gets them into the corner and proceed to mixup from there, instead of having to chance people down when he gets raged mid screen(which imo, is where K-rock gets hit by shit most of the time )
-has an addition of RC double reppuken as anti air(for those times when c.fierce/s.rh/high counter isn't useful :/ ) well RC double reppuken is good for when you dont' wanna risk trading with something and you dont' wanna take the risk of an empty jump.


how does N-rock compare to A-rock? i know a lot of people say combofiend needs to drop A-rock, but nevertheless he does well with rock. so what's A-rock have that N-rock can't do more or less the same?

[Leezy]

Dash is good, better than run imo, because Rock rushes down with elbow dashes and mixups instead of the normal running jabs.

I like the random activate with A...I mean...I got pwned along with everyone else by Combofriend's random activations. Which is to say that they are not random, 'cause he's really good, and I'm sure he knew what he was doing or he wouldn't have done it, but I mean that we didn't see it coming. He deals a shitload of damage with his custom...and he's good with resets when the initial attacks are blocked.

Just watch vids...I'd take N-Rock right now, 'cause I haven't played A-Rock, but if I learned it, I'd probably like A better.

[popoblo]

N-rock:

cons, loses the Jd--> sweep knockdown and safe elbows. how big does this affect rock?

2-3 supers with "safe" random supers

pros
-he gets rc jab elbow(which is not as safe as it would have been in K-groove).
-he can break stock when he gets them into the corner and proceed to mixup from there, instead of having to chance people down when he gets raged mid screen(which imo, is where K-rock gets hit by shit most of the time )
-has an addition of RC double reppuken as anti air(for those times when c.fierce/s.rh/high counter isn't useful :/ ) well RC double reppuken is good for when you dont' wanna risk trading with something and you dont' wanna take the risk of an empty jump.


N-rock is pretty solid. If you put him second and he comes in with 3 stocks, just activate right off the bat and your opponents options are EXTREMELY limited. And you don't necessarily need to burn your meter the first time since you have 3. If you don't get any openings the first time, activate again and you still have a level 3 ready.

RC jab elbow isn't worth it IMO. It has great priority anyways and it's fast enough that not many people will DP it if you mix it up.

Low jump RH is still nice.

[Ultimate Hustla]

I just watched the eccX matches of combofiend and JWong. His rock is sick! Yo, the gaurd break combo he did c.lp(*2) ~c.mk~jab elbow was being abused and jwong did not punish it with rolento or vega that much. How safe is that gaurd break combo?

[Hellion]

N-rock is pretty solid. If you put him second and he comes in with 3 stocks, just activate right off the bat and your opponents options are EXTREMELY limited.


Why limit them when he can incorporate breaking stock into his mixups and cancel the "pop" into super in a pinch?

[ZenFire]

IMO it's probably a better use of your stock to get some axtra damage in on regular hits and combos as well as more guard crush potential. Rock has enough wakeup mixup options and though popping a stock is a nice way to get off a random rage rush or whatever I think he has more efficient options. I don't know if that's excactly what you had in mind though.

Although... popping a stock at a safe distance makes it very hard to get any real mistakes out of your opponent since I would assume they'd start playing conservatively and safe. So yeah, both ways have their uses.

[Hellion]

Not quite what I had in mind...however

Although... popping a stock at a safe distance makes it very hard to get any real mistakes out of your opponent since I would assume they'd start playing conservatively and safe. So yeah, both ways have their uses.
You pretty much nailed it there.

If what Popoblo meant by limiting options was breaking stock to give a "raged" kind of effect, they'll simply run from you anyway, turtle up, whatever.
No one in their right minds would rush Rock if he's "raged" right?
So they turtle up, you think this would open the way for grabs right?
Land a short jump HK (it's gotta happen sooner or later) cancel to shine knuckle, deadly rave, whatever. Empty short jump, command grab mixups, super.

You can play this way, it works.
You just have to work harder.

I'm just saying let them come, Rock's defenses are solid without supers anyway.
Breakstock when you got the momentum on your side.

You can break stock anytime after you knockdown and still cancel the animation to a shine knuckle to cover safe falls if you wanted. If nothing else breaking stock is a proven "stun" method on its own that could lead to a command grab break super, and you're in the red so they'll have to bust their asses even harder trying to get you out of their grill, unlike before when you were out of range.

[El Ninja]

If I may ask, is rock good in any groove except K? C, maybe?

[B&B]

Hey guys, since i'm using K groove, what strategies should i use? Need some help on using the 360 throw :)

[vasAZNion13]

try youtube.com

[B&B]

i did see some videos but i need something orally....................................

Thanks anyways.

[repuken]

can some1 give me advice on how to handle a A-vega who loves to RC.

[B&B]

Try to get him cornered or when he's rolling try shifting and using the 360 throw. When he attacks counter them. (he has to attack sometime). After the counter..............................he's all yours, lol.

[ZenFire]

can some1 give me advice on how to handle a A-vega who loves to RC.

that's a very crappy matchup for me too. the only thing I've come up with so far is to bait the HP RC tumble. it's very slow so you can jump over and run after. Also, using his counter moves against c.mp would work if you can figure out the timing of their pokes. the LK counter move is a good AA since it's his fastest option and vega's jump is stupid fast. Another thing: early low jump hk can catch them off guard, it works well agains someone that jiggles or does a lot of max range poking. However, if they're charged and waiting for you then it won't be hard for them to RC you. If this is what they do you can probbably get away with empty low jump straight into JD. Being able to fully JD the the roll move (crystal flash or whatever it's called) could turn the tables. I'm too lazy to practice it, which is why I lose.

[blk_brotha]

When you guyz discussed about Rocks strats and which groove he's good in. like Leezy said, one of his best grooves would be N bcuz i use him on that groove. Top grooves for him would be K, N, C, and then A.
S groove? his normals off of his dodges suck especially his close rh. bcuz it' gets whiffed on a crouching opponet, his standing fierce can get punished when blocked.
P groove? it's coo to parry here and there. but that damn meter fills too slow.
rocks hard edge is safe from a distance but it can be punished with lv.3 supers and faster normals.

[Sonickun]

Sagat's high tiger shot will hit Rock in his hard edge.

Some things I've noticed w/ characters...

c.lk, c.lk, c.mk xx QCB + hp is a 5 hit combo vs. the whole cast...

for medium size to small characters... c.lk, c.lk, c.mk xx QCB + lp
is safe w/ JD (I dunno bout w/o it)

Large char. (Sagat, blanka, Honda, etc.) c.lk, c.lk, c.lk, c.mk xx QCB + lp is safe?

I haven't had time to test these at the arcades, and my friend is currently borrowin my PS 2, so can someone see if this works? Normally against large characters, i just do 2 c.lk's but I kno u can be punished after by Sagat. I'm not sure if you can link 3 in a row though. If it does work, it seems like a decent enough string to break guard, and u can easily see on reaction whether to do the elbow w/ fierce or jab.

ive tryed that but the combo stops at 2!! the MK donsent link:sad:

[scrubydan]

ive tryed that but the combo stops at 2!! the MK donsent link:sad:

only cr.lk x2, cr.mk, fierce hard edge links. a lp hard edge is a pressure string and really hard to punish when timed correctly, like after a far cr.mk or do it at max range. mp hard edge is not safe after a cr.mk, best is to also do it at max range for surprise attacks. it is also very hard to be punished if u time it correctly

[Ouroborus]

i'm starting to pick him up since i got bored of a-groove and he and kyo are prolly the funnest character in the game.

it seems hard to mount offense on rock since hes such a skinny target and he has a good amount of anti airs:

-standing hk, which is almost as good as vegas, better in some cases, worse in others
-c.hp
-c.mp
-rising tackle
-crack counter
-j.lk/j.mk
-raging storm

heres some rock gimmicks/tricks i like to use:

low jump hk option tree:

if they are gonna stick something out:

-deadly rave
-teleport into command grab
-raging storm if you think they'll jump
-crack counter (risky)

if they do nothing:

-another low jump hk
-empty low jump
-command grab
-throw
-c.lk into whatever
-overhead?

my favorite gimmick:

elbow dash into deadly rave. hella gimmicky but damn, it feels good when you land it.