Most Important Skill in Playing Fighting Games?

[glass]

well it depends on the game of course, but i'm sure there are a set of core skills you can use in all games.

in my opinion, it's reaction speed.

[Kataklysmic]

Ditto. Hand-coordination comes next.

[Daemos]

Reaction speed of course, it determines a lot of things.

Being unpredictable is also extremely important cuz good fighters can memorize their opponents gameplay patterns rather quick.

[Yansoma]

Sometimes it depends on the game.

I think it's a tie of three things:

Execution-Timing-Footsies

[bowiegranap]

Recognizing that what works against the CPU has no bearing against a human opponent... So, I guess its footsies.

[glass]

i dunno, some fighting games don't even have intensive footsies (guilty gear), and footsies itself involves a lot of twitch movement (like countering whiffed moves with a sweep in HF).

[HellMUT]

Random supers :D

[FalconPain]

Movelist memorization, yours and theirs. Timing means nothing if you can't remember which attack hits them out of the air and how to do it, or what they could possibly do to prevent you from doing so. It's also the first step of not being a button masher.

[kofiend]

IMO reaction time can be "bought" with clutchy shit, if your on the winning end abusing something big/wide with good recovery, its not hard to go on routine shit and only reacting to what the opponent does, certain characters make this braindead easy.

execution is manditory. IMO memorizing and timing is up there right next to the other shit swimming in your head.

[platinum_pinoy]

Patience. And tons of it.

[Hol Horse]

MOST important: the ability of keeping focus for a long time.
this is great, really. And I have a problem with that - I usually don't get big streaks because after some matches I just can't stay focused anymore and I play worse.

then:
- Game knowledge
- execution
- reaction time

[Jedi W.]

5> Reaction Time --> you just have to have the skills. you have to be able to react quickly and respond quickly. this goes for a lot of things, however.

4> Movelist Memorization --> can't fight if you don't know how. i think the exact point when you stop being a button mashing n00b is when you learn how to do moves.

3> Combo Execution --> however, even if you know how to do a move, you have to know when to use it. chaining moves together, whether it's a simple jump in to low roundhouse, or cutting loose with Mags, is vital to all fighting games.

2> Defense --> for fuck's sake, too many people who get owned for not knowing when and how to block, parry, roll, or run away.

1> Real Time Balance --> you can't just be good at defense, or just good at combos, you have to be able to do all of that in a real situation.

--jedi\/\/.

[Vance]

Mind games. Even the greatest players crumble when you make them believe that there's nothing they can do to win the match.

[SBCDyN]

Roll xx super.

[haunts]

Patience is most cruicial. 80% of all the matches ive ever lost was becuase I got over anxious.

[booda]

To sum it up: strategy. You can have reaction speed, you can know the stats of all the attacks, but unless you can piece it all together into a superior strategy that wins consistently, it's all worthless. It's more important to be able to think a few moves ahead. Even at low level play, being able to out think your opponent is more valuable than whether you can pull off Geese's Razing Storm motion on reaction.

[Serpent]

Its all about execution, and more importantly linking/comboing things off of reaction. At high level play it usually becomes a case of never really knowing when anything is going to hit or when you have an opening, because the other guy usually won't give away openings either. If you don't have the execution to take advantage of opportunities, you will lose.

Game knowledge only takes you to a certain point. Its only useful when you know things the other person does not. The higher you go, the less likely you know more than the other guy and the more knowledge winds up balancing out.

This is why I always downplay the role of the 'mind' in fighting games. I play mostly a thinking game myself, but against better players it all comes down to execution. They already know all the matchups and counters to anything you're doing. You can't outthink someone that already broke the game down to a science.

[LAAkuma]

you guys are almost all wrong,.

its:

STRATEGY 100%!!+++++.

Then after that, execution like way down on the list.

Jeff

[gunjack_fever]

1) Patience
2) Execution
3) Strats

[Kikosho]

I think all strats, execution, and timing are equaly important if you ask me.

[booda]

Strategy precludes execution because good execution doesn't tell you where and when to land a move. Having good strategy but poor execution will still take you further than vice versa.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by booda
Strategy precludes execution because good execution doesn't tell you where and when to land a move. Having good strategy but poor execution will still take you further than vice versa.

Good strategy and poor execution will only give you wins against scrubs and intermediate, whereas average strategy and incredible execution will give you more success against better players. I think execution is a lot more crucial than anything else, and thats what the question was asking for. Not all the skills you need. But I could be wrong, since Sirlin won an A2 tournament based purely on strategy (although you could say he executed that strategy perfectly, haha) against an opponent that was known for his excellent execution. I guess its situational and game dependant...even Sirlin admitted that if this didn't work he'd have been crushed though.

[BillyKane]

Adaptation.

[Mokura]

Solid anti-air, combos, knowledge of priority, and overall familiarity with the characters.

[haunts]

wait..

forget patience...






PARRIES!

[Defective]

Mind games-Once you have the knowledge and basic execution this is what seperates the men from the boys. Once you know the enemies patterns and know how to counter them how can they stop you?

[*InVeRs3*]

Problem Solving

[white shadow]

Originally posted by BillyKane
Adaptation.

Word. That's the reason Wong's been owning Marvel for this long.:o

[epsilon_]

Defense. If they can't hurt you, they can't win. One of the reasons Wong is really good at every game, is because he has the best defense in the Capcom world.

[Rhio2k]

Most of all: you have to actually LIKE fighting games. You ain't gonna be shit if you'd rather be off playing some redneck off-road racing game.

[Shifty Nevers]

Adaptation. you need to be flexable and not panic or be too greedy if you wanna come out on top.

[Iron Fists]

Like someone said, timing. You have to know when to execute a move and when not to.

[basis]

imo

exceution
mindgames*
reactions*
matchups and systems*

imo the last three go hand in hand, if you understand the games engine/systems and specific character match ups, then it might be easier to play mind games, and thus, your reactions dont have to be quite as quick if you set them up for something (still gotta be quick tho, but not as quick)

this all comes from experience and playing as many players as possible

so to sum up, ex^2. experience.execution

[glass]

i mean... after 200000 games of HF, you can pretty much know the strategy and what your opponent can and can't do. because of the limit on the number of options you have in any fighting game, you can only outthink your opponent so much before it boils down to whoever can react faster.

eg in the HF shoto ground game, it's not like you can pull something off that catches your opponent completely off-balance. you're only limited to so many feasible options (normals, hadokens, jump in), and if your opponent knows this, it becomes a matter of who has better reflexes.

also, it's hard to reach the limits of reaction time. at the highest levels, a month spent honing reaction times should produce better results than a month spent refining strategy.

[booda]

Originally posted by glass
eg in the HF shoto ground game, it's not like you can pull something off that catches your opponent completely off-balance. you're only limited to so many feasible options (normals, hadokens, jump in), and if your opponent knows this, it becomes a matter of who has better reflexes.
I am confused by this example. You can't catch them off-balance, so you have to have better reaction time? I'm not drawing a straight line between the two. To me, it sounds like the opponent has superior strategy, and that's why he's winning.

[glass]

i meant that both you and your opponent know what the other's options are. there are just no surprises and it's all about calculated guesswork. the better your reaction time, the fewer guesses you have to make.

but i guess this could be confined to high-level play?

[NerenatwaH]

mind games

[Vidness]

Patterns....and flowcharts to deal with deviations from the pattern.


Converting a landed hit to high damage is nice too

[Ho0v-Man]

Follow-up

Knowing when to defend and when to attack.

Knowing the basic gameplay patterns of your opponents character. (i.e. Understanding the way Cable zones you out; the way Storm runs away etc.)

Is adaptation something you can learn? I've always thought it was an either or you don't kinda thing.

[ToXY]

Most of all: you have to actually LIKE fighting games. You ain't gonna be shit if you'd rather be off playing some redneck off-road racing game.

lol quote of the day

[lseelba]

Button mashing. Everyone knows that the person that hits the most buttons fastest wins. :clap:

[LazyYetCrazy]

Good strategy and poor execution will only give you wins against scrubs and intermediate, whereas average strategy and incredible execution will give you more success against better players.

Um ok that's not really a good way of creating an argument...what about incredible strategy and average execution. (aka what you should of said to keep it even) In this case you'll have many opportunities to execute whatever it is you're trying to do and eventually it'll come out. You need to use strategy to get that first hit that you can build upon, and "better players" as you say, wont allow you to use your execution without strategy.

[IceBeast]

33.3% reaction
33.3% excecution
33.4% set up


AKA.... Counter thier shit, make them pay with the most damage and be ready to deal out more damage.

[epsilon_]

Incredible strategy = incredible exeuction. Alot of ec cvs2 players dont even combo, but theyre still very good. I've talked to amir, who is pretty good in just about every game, and he admits he has shitty mindgames, but his execution is good so he gets wins.

[nothingxs]

I think that execution, strategy, reflexes, adaptability and mental prowess are all equally important in the greater scheme of things.

[Tron Jon]

Six skills, in no particular order.

General Game Skills

1.)Focus
2.)Reading your Opponent / Mindgames
3.)Reaction Time

Game Specific Skills

1.)Execution
2.)Strategy
3.)Flexibility

I find it hard to rank 'em in any particular order. Why? Because they feed on each other. Developing one will develop all three: You cannot develop them separately, although you will probably develop them at different rates. All of 'em are necessary. The rest that follows is a description.

---

Focus. The ability to devote your attention to the game, completely, without being half-assed, distracted, or stuck in your own thoughts (OMG, I'm gonna win! OMG, I'm gonna die!) is an incredibly good skill. Losing focus can be damning. Focus is key to both a good defense and offense.

The Ability to Read Your Opponent / The Ability to Make Your Opponent Act in Predictable Ways. This is incredibly, incredibly useful. In high level play, people's offense and defense become extremely strong, but people still have openings. While specific characters might not have more openings than others, all strategies have some openings or places where they can be countered. If you can force someone into predictable patterns, you can make them give you openings, while covering your own.

Additionally... this ability isn't purely gameplay based. Knowing how to read the sounds of your opponent's breathing, controler motions and button taps, shifting and general intensity level can all give you clues to what you'll have to deal with, long before a move is even called.

Execution / Game & Character Mastery. Causing your opponent to fall on his face is all well and good, but there are times when it comes down to simple pressure, and that 'one good hit' that can end the game. In that case, the ability to turn that one 'random hit' into a combo that does 1/2, 2/3, or full life damage is necessary. The better your execution, the more hits are 'good hits', and the more your opponent has to treat you seriously. If one hit spells disaster, your opponent second-guesses himself more readily, and that in and of itself is an advantage.

Variety / Flexibility. Getting predictable hurts your game, and can actually doom it once your opponent figures out how to counter it. More options per situation mean that you can be more predictable, take advantage of more openings... and furthermore, it gives you the opportunity to switch styles and strategies on your opponent, causing him to misread or mistime things. Even with characters... the more characters you can play, the more options you have open to you... and the more opponents and characters you've played against, the less likely you are to fall to truly random (yet unknown / new) moves or strategies.

Strategic Decision Making. For example, with Magneto, you might be able to infinite for 40 hits off a random opening, but most players drop their opponent between 8 and 16. This isn't (always) botched execution, however: It's (often) a reset. With Hayato (who I play), sometimes it's better to end an air combo with the plain HP instead of the HP->HK... because it leaves you closer to them, and the pressure or positioning opportunities outweigh the extra damage. Going for pure damage, pure rushdown, pure runaway, often causes you to neglect the advantage of mindgames, positioning, etc. It is a good idea not to limit yourself and your options by being too single-minded in your style.

Reaction time. This is a powerful ability, but it should be noted that your reaction time will almost always be slower than your necessary execution time... until you have narrowed down your opponent's options and made them more predictable. Once you can both guess your opponent's timing and general intent, your reaction time can seem much faster than it really is. However, strong base reaction times are definitely an advantage.

[Athanasy]

Button Pressing, if you can't press the button on a stick, you can't do anything else.

Close Thread.

[ShinjiGohan]

I'd say adaptability.

[glass]

new list. i think it looks nice..

strategy and execution, foresight and reflex.


aside:
i guess reaction time would be the hardest to perfect, but there are some things you really can't react to and you're better off avoiding completely. eg if you realize three mack trucks are coming at you from all sides 0.1 seconds to impact, and your reflex kicks in at 0.01 seconds, you're probably still gonna feel something.

edit:
just saw Tron Jon's list. i actually kinda like it.
believe it or not i came up with the list i posted independently.. it looks lacking now.

[Wil]

The ability to manipulate your opponent into making mistakes.

I fall for that shit everytime. lol :sweat:

[DeAdSpAcE]

Most important skill:

Understand that it's just a game so don't stress and create high expectations for yourself, that way you'll be able to flow and man up to accept a loss.

[epsilon_]

^ no that's not true. Ricky is a bitch when he loses, and he's good at every game. Ohnuki cried at evo 2k3 after he lost to both Ricky and Viscant. You can be plenty good and take sf as seriously as ever.

[DeAdSpAcE]

I was speaking mostly in terms of what I've seen from players like Kuni, Mester, John Choi. That guy's pretty mellow and cool headed. To me it's a good skill to have, it's helped me improve.

Ohnuki cried? How badly?:lol:

[Ho0v-Man]

Practice

[Storming Flower]

adaptation, in terms of being a natural good player.

It's the reason why wong was running marvel for so long. Wong and David Lee come to mind for mvc2.

[Robust]

Eye of the Tiger

[Tron Jon]

Whether you take it personally, or whether you're mellow...

#1.) The ability to lose, learn from that loss, and keep playing.

Nobody starts great. Everybody loses. And if you can't work past it, you'll remain a scrub forever.

[Demon Dash]

1. Execution (without this you can't do anything)
2. Reactions
3. Hit comfirm

IMO.

[SynikaL]

I think it's ashame noone even mentioned this, but IMO having an analytical mindset is what seperates the good from the great players, and is far and away the most important characteristic for doing anything competitively.

You'll never be a winner, if you can't piece together why you're a loser.

Next on the list I'd jot down execution.



-Syn

[REALPLAYER]

Man, reflexes are what separates the good players from the dominators.
It's not strat because strategy can be taught to a monkey.
All strat does is help you understand why you lost or why you won.
I've developed a working strat in all the games i play but it NEVER equaled free wins, even over opponents who were less knowledgeable game wise than I was.
Execution kinda goes hand in hand with reflexes, but knowing how to RC in CvS2 or JF in Tekken WON'T make you win. Had to learn that the hard way. :sad:

The best players, both past and present, Valle, Choi, Daigo, Sanford, Art, Eddie, Justin, Nin, Tom, Suwon, the list goes on, ALL have superior or at least above average reflexes.
You do nothing, they do nothing....you move, you get punished.
How the fuck you gonna beat that??
Reflexes are something I simply don't have and don't know if I can develop it.
I hesitate before I react...my biggest downfall.

[dialupsucky]

instinct

[DeAdSpAcE]

instinct

Yo dude did you shag your virtual gf yet? :bgrin:

[dialupsucky]

lol yes

[Anticon27]

Execution is a must.

[Sabin]

control is the most important thing any top player has above everything.

if someone controls the fight, they control you, regardless of how good your execution is, how are you even going to land a combo in the first place?

[JustOwnin]

Genius which brings about the ability to recognize patternized movement through the accessing of previous knowledge of a certain situational scenario or by the observation of your opponents movements i.e. adaptation. Genius which brings about the ability to create new strands of information that derive from little or no previous info i.e. creativity. Genius which allows one to gain information through experience at a more accelerated rate than that of thy peers to disallow time from dictating how much skill one should have at a certain time. Genius which through the assessing of a situation using logic that goes beyond the superficial allows one to pinpoint the exact timing of a certain action i.e. execution. Genius that branches out to all traits of dominance over individuals regardless of the situational scenario.

By developing genius one develops the ability to own. The masses does not know how to develop genius, thus the illusion that all other things besides genius - which in the end is decided by genius - is a factor is created. Little do the masses know that ways of developing genius has been created and perfected by leading neurologists through out the world.

http://www.learningstrategies.com/Genius/Home.html


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=books&n=507846

http://www.themindaccelerator.com

Rejoice masses, for you have been enlightened. Know that knowledge is not power. Only specialized knowledge use towards a certain goal can be converted and used as a plausible power source.

[Impact Hound]

You know that feeling where you're playing a series of rock-paper-scissors, and you just sort of know what the other guy is going to do & you sweep him several times in a row? You need that in-the-zone-ness most.

[True_Tech]

ability to think on your feet - execution - reflexes

[Sabin]

execution is mad overrated, there are tons of good players that get by on shitty execution

[True_Tech]

i think you're right cause i can get by with my shitty left side execution and still beat people

edit: but then again i'm not good maybe i'm just lucky :confused:

[Serpent]

execution is mad overrated, there are tons of good players that get by on shitty execution


I dunno man..if you can't execute high damage stuff in MvC2 how do you win? In any game, if your opponent takes half your life when he touches you, and you take a pixel from him when you touch him, you have to be a LOT better than him to win. In terms of gameplay knowledge, at the higher levels everyone is the same. Buktooth has more gaming knowledge than many US players, but he lists execution as the reason why he doesn't win more and why the Japanese are better than him. Ricky has great execution. Justin has great execution. You can know the correct move in every sitation, but if you don't or can't do it, how are you at the advantage and how are you winning? Fighting games allow execution to make up for lots of things. Exactly who are these top players that beat everyone that don't have good execution? You mentioned good players, not the great players. If the good players aren't great, it means they're missing an important component to greatness. I think execution is most likely it.

[Duck Strong]

Anticipation, educated guesses, mind fucks, demoralizing your opponent, being able to break down any given situation

[10x]

Definatly adaptation, all fighters and players are different, you've got to adapt.

Maybe I should start learning...:xeye:

[Postman~730]

5> Reaction Time --> you just have to have the skills. you have to be able to react quickly and respond quickly. this goes for a lot of things, however.

4> Movelist Memorization --> can't fight if you don't know how. i think the exact point when you stop being a button mashing n00b is when you learn how to do moves.

3> Combo Execution --> however, even if you know how to do a move, you have to know when to use it. chaining moves together, whether it's a simple jump in to low roundhouse, or cutting loose with Mags, is vital to all fighting games.

2> Defense --> for fuck's sake, too many people who get owned for not knowing when and how to block, parry, roll, or run away.

1> Real Time Balance --> you can't just be good at defense, or just good at combos, you have to be able to do all of that in a real situation.

--jedi\/\/.


I concur....He just broke-down the Force..... :clap:

[Sabin]

I dunno man..if you can't execute high damage stuff in MvC2 how do you win?


mvc2 is pretty much the exception to the rule, basically if you want to play that game at a high level, then yes, you'll need good execution.

In any game, if your opponent takes half your life when he touches you, and you take a pixel from him when you touch him, you have to be a LOT better than him to win. In terms of gameplay knowledge, at the higher levels everyone is the same. Buktooth has more gaming knowledge than many US players, but he lists execution as the reason why he doesn't win more and why the Japanese are better than him. Ricky has great execution. Justin has great execution. You can know the correct move in every sitation, but if you don't or can't do it, how are you at the advantage and how are you winning? Fighting games allow execution to make up for lots of things. Exactly who are these top players that beat everyone that don't have good execution? You mentioned good players, not the great players. If the good players aren't great, it means they're missing an important component to greatness. I think execution is most likely it.


I think Jason Cole would be the greatest example of a player who doesn't have good execution, yet still rapes foos because he has parlor tricks and controls space really well. Or Julien Robinson. I don't even think that guy knows what a combo or frame data is, but he rapes 90% of all players simply based on his smarts (or randomness?) alone, in multiple games. Myself too, while I'm not the best or anything like that, i've placed highly in countless tourneys, and my execution is kind of sub-par compared to the players that are above me. Even Valle has been known for sloppy ass execution at times...

Obviously, the greatest players all have great control of the surrounding area and the execution to go along with it, as they go hand in hand. But I dunno man...if you don't have the proper space control, how are you ever even going to land a combo even if you have great execution? I rarely see players win on just pure execution alone (barring MVC2, which throws everything im saying out the window to a extent), so thats why I think controlling space is a bit more important, although both concepts go hand in hand.

BTW when I say control, i guess it probably means multiple things, like zoning, defense, knowing when to attack and defend properly..etc. All these things are factors in learning how to control a match properly. When you understand all these concepts, then you can finally worry about execution, which probably should be the last thing on peoples minds, but it's usually the first since everyone wants to land those phat combos and make the crowd cheer, even if they don't win a tournament.

Of course, this is just my POV, I know there are ppl who think differently than me, but im a big turtle and my execution sucks, so I have to concentrate on controlling space more and making up for my sloppy ass execution, heh

[Postman~730]

Sabin, you hittin' this shit on the head too....cause I always think execution is the way to win, but thats not in all situations.

[Soundbwoy]

I think it's ashame noone even mentioned this, but IMO having an analytical mindset is what seperates the good from the great players, and is far and away the most important characteristic for doing anything competitively.

You'll never be a winner, if you can't piece together why you're a loser.

Next on the list I'd jot down execution.



-Syn
This is definately one of the more important aspect to playing.

I remember playing this higher level cat in 3S and he was killing me. I must of played him for 8 matches. Each match I would grow more frustrated and lose worse. I left that arcade that night hot as hell, vowing never play anymore, with thoughts like "this game is bullshit" and "I'm to old for this shit".

But I couldn't feel this way for long. I realized that if I had some defense, I wouldn't got raped. I went back the next day just to study. I didn't even play, I just watched the high level players (most of which post here) to observe and learn.

I went back about a week later. Still got my ass kick, but I wasn't being punish for all those mistakes like before.

[MegaFool_X]

PARRIES!

Damn sure enough agree with that. If you master parrying, you are truly a master of the Super Arts. CVS2, Alphas, SF3. Just watch out for people like Alex and Zhangief, and your set!

[jericho_mpm]

well it depends on the game of course, but i'm sure there are a set of core skills you can use in all games.

in my opinion, it's reaction speed.

best skill period is having (FUN) People take stuff to seriously nowdays.........

[unsmart]

Getting at least seven hours of sleep a night, eating three healthy meals a day, and keeping yourself hydrated by drinking plenty of water (you'll know when you're hydrated if you have to pee every 30 mins and your urine is clear). :tup:

[MKKID]

Time to study the game in great detail, Detemination, Natural talent (includes reaction time, hand coordination, being able to adapt), Money (you can't play that shit if you dont' have the $$).

[MKKID]

Getting at least seven hours of sleep a night, eating three healthy meals a day, and keeping yourself hydrated by drinking plenty of water (you'll know when you're hydrated if you have to pee every 30 mins and your urine is clear). :tup:

This will work for the normal person but I would say that a Tweeker is on high alert. They be imagining your move before you do it. Probably freak you out of your mind game if you were afraid they would do something freaky. Never underestimate the power the darkside.

It almost seems like Playing games is a sport as you have to take great care of your body. If bowling is a sport then I suppose high level play could be considered one too...

[Dios <-X->]

Mind games

[PimpC]

i'm all about reaction speed and execution

[unsmart]

This will work for the normal person but I would say that a Tweeker is on high alert. They be imagining your move before you do it. Probably freak you out of your mind game if you were afraid they would do something freaky. Never underestimate the power the darkside.

It almost seems like Playing games is a sport as you have to take great care of your body. If bowling is a sport then I suppose high level play could be considered one too...

I was joking when I said this, but you bring up a good point. It doesn't happen too often for me, but sometimes there's a point where time slows dowwwwwn and you're totally alert, focused, and on-edge/in-the-zone when you really should by all rights be exhausted. Some people thrive by being constantly in this state: chugging Red Bulls and staying up ungodly hours while not sucumbing to fatigue, remaining at the top of their game. Hell, this buddy I ran with on our high school track team got something like an hour of sleep because of senior prom, then ran a 4:30 mile time at the meet the following morning. I can barely pull an all-night cram session anymore for a midterm, but some people are just... I dunno, they RISE to the occassion. Michael Jordan with a 105 fever plays like a 60+ point game. Amazing.