Article:The State of mvc2 today

[Juicy G]

Warning: If you’re attention span is that of a 3 year old and can’t do a lot of reading then be prepared....









Well another evo has pass and once again Justin wins . This Evo was Different However, For the 1st year ever, nothing new was discovered or abused, in other words nothing that’ll change the way the game is played , Now granted the game has been out for 4 years now But as results have shown and proven, the game’s Development has completely Stopped and Players have simply stopped looking or better yet, Stopped trying to find new strategies and innovations in the game Or worst of all become lazy and stick with what already works, For this reason is why I think the Gap between Justin and the rest of the Pack(us)has widened to a ridiculous margin, which I’ll address later. But for now I wanna address my opinions as to what went wrong and how we , The Mvc2 Community can make this game fun again.


1:Rankings: how a 56 character game turned into 30 into 20 into 11 then a 4 character game.

In my Opinion only 4 characters matter now(not necessarily the best), And they are:

Storm
Sentinel
Captain Commando
Psylocke


These Chars are what makes you change your mind and what you fear in the game. Storm and Sentinel doesn’t need a explanation. But here’s why I put psylocke and Capcom here.

3:Capcom-I don’t think he deserves a explanation But there will be critics so here we go. The reason why capcom is here is because he makes ANY character much better than before(even more so than Sent-y or Doom-B imo).Because he adds so much in power, .increased defense , Runaway Stopper, And with all of this there’s no wonder why 100% of all mvc2 players snap him in a 1st chance. He adds too much to a team, PLUS as a added bonus he can beat up the character that’s doing the snapping in most likely, Magneto, provided he survives the Guard break and manages to get distance(his effects with sentinel need no explanation...we’ve seen what’s good about them for over 3 years now :p ).

4:Psylocke-She’s here because everyone fears her.No other assist actually forces you to move backwards more so than her. Because more and likely if you see Psylocke, You’re likely to see her Pimp as well. This is why Mag/psy>>>all other mag teams. mag/sent-a requires you to fight and counter assist to be truly effective IMO, if your sent-a continues to get wiped out AND you can’t attack from your favorite attack angles and parameters and now you see how soo and Sanford Can beat Justin’s Team Row(Rowtron avoids this entirely by starting sentinel and Jmar Just makes ridiculous comebacks :lol:).In short psylocke gives people reason to run scared ,because once she hits...all hell breaks loose.

Now you may ask, What happened to Cable and Magneto? Cable has become a liability more and more and many players find themselves using him more so as a assist(his AAA is very underrated and easily one the most annoying assist to get hit by).Magneto IMO needs psylocke so that he doesn’t become so one dimensional and can put more pressure on the opponent than any other assist. Mag/sent-a is potent and popular for good reason, But only does 2 things well, Kill Assists really fast and KILL you really fast. But sent-a isn’t good at creating openings like psylocke or Cyclops Can and Cyclops isn’t as good as psylocke at capitalizing off of partial hits for magneto(plus he doesn’t do much damage).Mag/Tron is like mag/sent-a but shittier, for these reasons. Shitty range, shittier character, and most importantly shitty comeback potential. Mag/tron is at it’s best when it’s doing a killing on your team 10-15 seconds into a match. But if you’re losing, Because of that lack of range, Because of the lack of created openings and most importantly little defense.Mag tron takes the cake as the most one dimensional duo in the game.

Other Characters like Strider, Spiral, Doom and Cyclops are really good too but they’re aren’t very popular for the reasoning that it takes more work much less than that they suck. It doesn’t take much work to make the “big 4" good. The Community for the most part has become lazy and doesn’t want to put in work and make those other characters work. I mean the characters that’s become passe is mostly off of what Viscant said 3 years ago (Blackheart!!).So without variety you see the repetition. You see mostly the same 3 or 4 teams and not learning anything new, I rarely Download new video’s of players mostly because more and likely I’ve seen it before. So with the same 3 or 4 teams running around and with all those players using the same teams you’ll lead into this:


“I honestly believe that many of ec top players are of similar level. Each of us go back and forth to put numbers beside the names”-Mixup

This is true except replace “ec” with “everyone who’s not Justin, Row and IMO Sanford”. Because everyone knows everything about the top teams now and everyone is at a similar level. Results become random and whoever places is more about who’s having a Good Day then actual skill. This is different than from 2-3 years ago when the people who won was generally who knew the most about the game and Justin who to go along with his skill played a really bizzare team. That initially was difficult to counter. Marvel needs variety again and for that to happen people will need to start trying new things, new characters(ones that already have potential...like rogue or anakaris)then mesh them into new teams. This is my theory as to how to make mvc2 interesting again.


2:Justin>>>the rest of the pack in 2002, Justin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the rest of the pack in 2004.
Why this is true is relative to what I said earlier in the post about the evolution of mvc2.back in the days when he 1st started winning he often had to deal with different and new strategies, So as time went on and the game stopped evolving, Justin was having a easier and easier time winning because he’s been there, seen that and has about 82828328 different ways of beating that team. So coming at him with the same stuff he’s used to for the last 2 years only means getting beat down even worse than before. But Beating Justin is a key to revitalizing the scene. Some players have quit because they see no hope in ever beating him. Most players have taken a “2nd place is the Goal”Mentality, which I think is just as bad. In order to even approach the best (like Justin)you have to be able to push yourself to reach that level. Not set a bar like that. With that Said the only person on the entire planet who even has a reasonable shot a beating Justin at this stage of mvc2 is Sanford. But who knows what’s going to happen, But we as a Community have to step up our games and return to what it was...The best and most competitive Community in the SF Scene.

[TS]

Good post, I hope people actually take the time to read it.

About the character rankings, I think that the commonly-accepted Big 4 are the best because of consistency, not just ablility. There's a reason to pick Rogue if you want, or obviously Doom, there's a reason to put Tron on your team, there's a reason to pick Omega Red, Blackheart, or Juggernaut, etc. But what is your team gonna be? Rogue/Storm/Psy...Doom/Storm/Sent...Mag/Storm/Tron...Omega/Strider/Doom...BH/Sent/Cable or Commando...Mag/Sent/Jugg, etc. There are good teams that don't invovle Storm, Sent, Cable, or Magneto, but they are really some of the MVP characters.

I think most characters in MvC2 have some use...a reason to pick them, even if it only works against one common team. But Big 4 is like...the butterknife. It's the ultimate tool. Works as a screwdriver, an antenna, paperweight, tac-hammer, a small saw...

OK, I've lost it...

[Remix1213]

I completely agree wit this. I spoke to sanford while we were having a casual match and we started talking about evo and sanford said he cant beat him and that he gave up trying. I waz really shocked by this cause he has the best shot at doing it but i guess even if ur as good as sanford ur confidence goes down alittle but i have faith that sanford can do it..... But before beating justin u gotta go to evo to beat him sanford =P..... my 2 cents. 1.....

[VietKhan]

theres tons of people in the community trying to dethrone wong still, stop speaking about only a select bunch.

[Murakumo]

I play Dhalsim...

too bad most fairly good characters+CapCom assist and patience > Dhalsim. Especially Cable/CapCom (since he's always runaway/patient), and Sent/CapCom (you CANNOT get an angle on this guy!).

Therefor, team scrub > Sim teams.

I should invest in Tron assist... There is reason for Tron... not only does it also fuck up people coming down on it (making it, still, a good runaway assist [even if you don't see it used much as that]), but it also fucks up CapCom on the rush.

I think it'd be fun to see more ppl use Sim. I can't place at the top with him, but I play as well with him as I do any other teams. And it's not like I'm inept with the others, either. IMO, Sim fights well against Mag and Storm, and alright against Sent depending on assist... usually well against Cable, too. But CapCom assist gives him probs. He's a little like Storm (but with shitty life)-- he can run, he can range with attacks (yay for long normals), and he can rush!

If the opponent has no AAA, you can rush pretty well. If they do, you can attack at limbs' range. If you need to, Sim is very good at controlling space/running, too. If you attack at his limbs' range, he really doesn't get hit by AAA except CapCom.

Sim really is a good character... maybe with a steep learning curve, but think of how many people could use him well if they tried to pick him up instead of playing 129387490821374987 more big 4 only matches.

I'm just one semi-decent player. If other actually started using the guy, I'm sure there'd be ways found around CapCom assist, too.

I think then reason people aren't learning more is because they're lazy and stopped experimenting. I mean... who new Sim could guardbreak at midscreen into combo? Anywho, it'd just be fun to see people still experimenting. Even if it's with some of the already used characters. Whatever happened to BH and his 1 frame c.lk with mad range? Hell, today after a Seattle tourney, during casual play, I randomly as hell beat Takayuki's MSP using Sprial/Sent/BH (lol, was Sent-a)... I accidentally picked Sprial instead of Sim. But damn, how old is that team? People can even play well with some old teams.

It's funny that, now everyone's used the same teams for the last 2 years. If they put that much practice into teams they're used before then, I'm sure they'd find some nifty new shit with them, too.

~Murakumo

[KungfuJoe]

The big four will allways remain the same just for how easy it is to get a win from them. there are oddities (duo wolverines random spirals and blackhearts tend to come to mind) but those ar the exception not the rule. until the day you will see less MSP,MSSa,and team rowtron(there are other's but for now that is all I could come up with) the game will not become as diverse as you would like it.

[NeREMIXED]

There's no hope of getting people to play other characters than the big 4. Maybe for a gimmick, but never for real. Oddball characters have certain chemistry when grouped together, but when getting rushed down by Mag all the time you'd want to switch to Sent/Capcom. To fight sent/capcom you'll switch to Cable. To fight cable you'll switch to mag.

Back when everyone used everyone those days were fun. Now it's always the big 4.

but to contradict myself...

Playing low tier characters are damn boring. It's boring as hell because of lack of mobility. And the only good assists are top tier characters.

[Eckostyle]

One thing about MvC2 now is that it's the worst time to start getting into it fresh. The competition is way one sided. 3 years ago, you had a chance, but now, since pretty much all MVC2 players know what they're doing and will beat the shit out of you before you get the chance to learn something, It's kind of pointless.

^IMO, by the way.

[platinum_pinoy]

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/thread68906.php

According to white shadow's sources, there are tactics and strategies being developed. But even though there is still new stuff to be found, I would probably think that it will be for the top 4 characters.

If Justin retires, I don't see this game being as popular or as competitive anymore. I find that whoever will be the champion of evo2k5 (assuming that justin retires) will not be a true champion unless they have beaten Justin in his prime.

[epsilon_]

Psylocke isn't THAT good, she's only useful on one team. Cykes is a much better, and more versatile assist than Psylocke is. Storm Sent Cyke is the best team in MvC2. Ckye AAA is just rediculously good.

[box]

At least this year we saw slightly more characters being used compared to last year in the final 8.

Storm
sent
cable
mag
commando
psylocke
ironman
cyclops
doctor doom

last year it was

storm
sent
cable
mag
commando
psylocke

But yeah, the game is pretty dry at the moment.

[Postman~730]

I will read this article at my job today....;)

[Remix1213]

Guys justin isnt gonna retire it would be stupid to do so. He is making wat 2,000 off marvel at evo and im not even gonna talk about the smaler tourneys. Therefore he has no reason to retire, hes not stupid he will keep coming to evo dont worry about that....:p

[Athanasy]

Great thread.

[KING]

Originally posted by platinum_pinoy
If Justin retires, I don't see this game being as popular or as competitive anymore. I find that whoever will be the champion of evo2k5 (assuming that justin retires) will not be a true champion unless they have beaten Justin in his prime. yup, and the next "champ" will ALWAYS live in Justin's shadow, knowing he didn't beat him.;)

[Ouroborus]

magneto has gotten too fast and sentinel has gotten too smart

[Yansoma]

I'm pretty sure it's impossible to start playing now and catch up. ESPECIALLY to -Justin-.

[white shadow]

Originally posted by Yansoma
I'm pretty sure it's impossible to start playing now and catch up. ESPECIALLY to -Justin-.

*coach/mother mode* You can never have that kind of mentality!!! *mode off* :p

I'm glad people like Vegita-X are stepping into the woodwork. I've been using Rogue and Sakura since the beginning, trying to use them to their full potential and it's worked. I play Rogue and Sak better than I could ever do with Magz or Storm, even though I can do combos easily. (Combos mean nothing w/o strats :() I've beaten so many top tier teams with Rogue and Sakura.:)

Platinum Pinoy, yes there was a thread talking about a Cable inf and a Storm inf!!! :eek:

Here's the Sakura Thread: http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/thread42666.php

I've devoted ALL my knowledge about her in this thread. Mostly about regular Sakura though.:p

Rogue: http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/thread25780.php

So here's your chance in learning new potentially deadly characters. :D

[ytwojay]

Originally posted by Juicy G
In my Opinion only 4 characters matter now(not necessarily the best), And they are:

Psylocke

4:Psylocke-She’s here because everyone fears her.No other assist actually forces you to move backwards more so than her. Because more and likely if you see Psylocke, You’re likely to see her Pimp as well. This is why Mag/psy>>>all other mag teams. mag/sent-a requires you to fight and counter assist to be truly effective IMO, if your sent-a continues to get wiped out AND you can’t attack from your favorite attack angles and parameters and now you see how soo and Sanford Can beat Justin’s Team Row(Rowtron avoids this entirely by starting sentinel and Jmar Just makes ridiculous comebacks :lol:).In short psylocke gives people reason to run scared ,because once she hits...all hell breaks loose.
While I agree with most of your other points, I really don't feel that your assesment of Psylocke is on point.

I used to have so much faith in Psylocke, but every year my confidence in her dropped, and this year, I'm finally hanging up MSP as my main team. As a general assist, Psy gets killed by drones and Captain Corridor, two of the most popular assists in the game. On top of that, she gets rocked hard if you don't cover her while calling her out.

She has fairly low stamina, and gets unblockable lasered more easily than other playable characters in the game, and while she's decent on point, she doesn't offer much in terms of dealing damage.

Now onto Magneto/Psylocke. Is Mag/Psy scary? No doubt. In my opinion, it's the scariest duo in the game, edging out Sent/Capcom by a bit. Storm/Cyke is a better duo overall, but that's because its safe, not scary. The problem with Mag/Psy is that you have to get a clean hit with either Magneto/Psylocke to do any damage. And if you take the reset route, you might have to reset 3-5 times, depending on whether or not you use supers, triple fierce vs infinite, etc. The whole time, you have to watch over Psylocke, because she takes so much damage.

If I'm going to work that hard to land a clean hit, I'd rather use Sent-a. While Rocket Punch takes away a lot of your reset options, it offers a lot more damage, and a different way of playing [counter-assisting]. If you do land a clean hit, you can infinite to the corner for ~75% damage, or you can triple fierce and hope for a reset. In that scenario, one reset will kill most opposing characters.

MSP vs MSS-a. For the sake of argument, lets assume that MSP is the only playable Psylocke team [which it is, imo]. Sentinel just seems to use up that third slot so much better than Psy does. You can call Sent more often than Psy and not worry about him taking 9 years of damage in the process. Granted, this isn't the smartest approach to playing, but its there nonetheless. On top of that, when Magneto dies, you still have one of the strongest duos in the game backing you: Storm/Sent. Storm/Psy isn't terrible, but it does take a lot of work to win with.

Mag/Psy doesn't beat Storm/Sent, Storm/Commando, Sent/Commando, 3 of the most popular duos in the game. Mag/Psy is only a major threat to MSS-a and team Row. A couple years ago, I would've argued differently. But people are getting better at blocking, and more and more people are using Santhrax, a team that will beat Mag/Psy no matter who you have on point.

I'm not saying that winning with Mag/Psy is impossible, because it definitely isn't. You have the fastest character in the game backed by an assist that hits in front and on top of Magneto, who can be anywhere on the screen at any time. But you have to work so hard to win consistently against teams with Storm, Sent, Commando, Tron, etc., that it just doesn't seem worth it.

[Dasrik]

It's time to unveil the horrible truth.

IMO:
1. I think Blackheart is still good.
2. I don't think Storm is top tier really.

Before you hang me in effigy, I'll explain myself. Last statement first.

Storm is not really a good character on her own. She excels in only two things really: runaway and retreat. Her runaway is top notch because chasing her risks getting hit by a short and we all know where that goes. And her retreat (Typhoon xx hail) is great and hard to stop.

But you've probably figured out the problem. These things are only real assets if you're winning. And what people seem to have overlooked is that Storm's offense is full of holes. Sure, she can do crazy rush up close just like Mags if you get close, but that's not where most Storm players want to be anyway. Her attacks don't have as much priority as they seem to. Jumping fierce gets stopped EASILY by a well placed attack. She has two anti-air options which have serious range problems (c.fierce has no horizontal range, s.roundhouse loses flatout to regular jump-ins) which forces you to choose in clinch situations. Basically, being offensive with Storm forces you to risk too much. You can't really get away with just jumping around with roundhouse anymore. Ending aircombos with LA xx LS lets the opponent getting away from you, and ending them with flying screen means you risk losing momentum if your execution is just a little off.

The best way to alleviate Storm's weaknesses is: pair her with Sentinel, so even if you get clobbered, you have the hope of getting that one hit which leads to serious pain or death; or, put her in the middle and get a guy which gets easy leads to go in the middle (*coughMagnetocough*). But that still means she's a means to an end. If you want to improve in Marvel, you should consider this. And if you want to fight Storm, for God's sake, keep this in mind and don't try to hit her where she can't be hit. She has lots of weak points, don't force square pegs into round holes.

Now to Blackheart. I never really thought Blackheart was good, but now that Marvel has stagnated this much, I think people should consider his uses again. He can't be played like he was in the past, that's for certain. But played carefully, he is the best staller in the game (better than Storm IMO). You have to really know how to use his demons, beyond the simplistic standby sj.rh airdash back rh. Mostly, you have to take into account what MvC2 offense looks like these days, and have a good knowledge of where your attacks will be.

I'll get into this more later, I've stirred the pot enough.

Top tiers in MvC2 as it stands IMO:

1. Sentinel (best character in game, best assist in game. Has Cable problems, but most MvC2 players are confident enough to deal with them.)
2. Magneto/Psylocke (Walking randomizer, it literally does move faster than the eye can follow and forces opponents to go by player patterns. Yes, I consider Mag/Psy one character.)
3. Commando (having the best vertical controlling assist in the game is reason enough for everyone to pick this guy)
4. Storm (needs either a lead or Sentinel to really be dangerous. Still good because most people don't really know how to fight her.)
5. Magneto (without Psylocke, Magneto requires the player to have a full knowledge of his attack properties and to have good habits regarding combos. He's still good)
6. Cable (still good for the handful of crappy Sents out there, and the hope of being able to kill a character, an assist or both is worth the price of admission)

[popoblo]

are trapping teams still effective? honestly? sure, strider/doom is good, but one mistake and you're in serious trouble (plus it takes a whole lot of time and dedication to learn all the ins and outs of the trap). and what about spiral? where did all the spiral players go?

here's my main question- what's the best spiral team? i read somewhere that white (i think it's white, the good japanese spiral player) uses spiral/sent/capcom, and it makes sense. if spiral dies, sent/capcom is such a power duo that is very capable of making big comebacks.

what about spiral/cable/sent or spiral/cable/cyclops (duc's old teams)? but since players have gotten a whole lot smarter when fighting against cable, cable isn't always guaranteed to dump all the meter on the character (or assist).

so what about something else, some team not mentioned? the major problem with the aforementioned 3 teams is that they can't really use the meter spiral gains. so what about something like spiral/storm/cyc? storm and cyc can definitely use the meter, even if it's just to chip, and storm/cyc is such a solid duo. but then again, they lack the potential to make a big comeback if spiral gets owned (unlike the spiral/sent/capcom team).

and since people can guard cancel out of the spiral/sent trap, wouldn't cyclops be a better choice on the team than sentinel? when you call cyclops, that usually means spiral has the time to call swords, which is what makes spiral good.

just wondering who works well with spiral.

peace

[Ho0v-Man]

Originally posted by Dasrik
*snip*

If you think Storm can only fight w/ assists or an already established lead, you should pick up Evo2k4 dvd and go to tournament highlights. There is this one match where Mixup's Storm(I think it was Mixup:confused: ) drops a whole team no assists or anything.:cool: No offense, but maybe you're not playing her right.

[Gen2000]

I'll try not to make this too long but I was thinking about this for a while (months) and I think Marvel's biggest advantage over other fighting games is also one of it's biggest "downfalls", that being team dynamics. Everyone should know by now it's not really about the individival characters, but the duos or teams. Blackheart is not that great by himself but partner him up with Cyclops or another workable AAA and he can be scary. Same with Sent solo vs. Sent/CapCom (except Sent/CapCom is probably the best duo in the game). Cable solo should be dying to rushdown from a majority of pixies in the game but this game isn't about 1v1, so that pixie with have to take on Cable + an awesome AAA or some other assist like Sent-RP which in turn makes Cable/assist >>>> half the cast of pixies/rushdown characters even if they had good assists themselves

It's got to a point now where everyone has figure out some of the better character combinations in the game, which turns into some of the better teams to use over others. Add to the fact there is just more information available for these teams than others make it easier to pick them up and dominate low-mid level competion which just aids in the cycle. I guess that's another point for the "people are lazy" argument though..

For the "people should try more variety in their teams" angle, it's really hard to do in this state of the game cause for every "original" team you make up there is always a better, popular team that does what you're looking for better and what you end up using is basically a weaker version of a "real" team. Someone long ago (I believe Viscant) mention that you can make any team you want as long as it had a strong gimmick (mostly easy access to high damage). The state of Marvel of right now though the teams with the best gimmicks are the combinations of big 4 plus top tier assist. Yeah, you can do some tight shit (in terms of damage) with Ruby/Sent that can rival Storm's old standard LAxLS DHC into HSF combo but you end up sacrificing, either an AAA, just a overall better character (Storm), or just a better overall duo (Sent/Storm > Sent/Ruby after performing DHC) just so you can see "variety" on the screen by having Ruby on the team. When you look at it hard enough, all you basicially did was make a "weaker" version of Team Santhrax/Matrix.

In the end though if you're happy with current team it won't matter if it's a weaker version of a better team and continue to use it anyways and may rack up wins that shock the community but for some people they realise that it isn't that they're favorite character(s) suck but their favorite character combinations sucks compared to all the Sent/CapCom, Storm/Cyclops, Cable/AAAs, etc., etc. type teams so they use the more popular/better teams just to compete.

Some players are lucky though that they're favorite characters actually have some untapped potentinal to show and the best example I can think of is vegita-x with his Rogue. Rogue actually has more mobility, which is very important in this game, and better priority than rest of the not so popular characters. Her super has quick start-up and invincible frames on it at the beginning and he has Storm backing her up so she is all good for being DHC friendly (Hailstorm makes anything good). Rogue/Storm/Tron is just MSTron except with Rogue subbing in for Magneto but she is such a decent sub that the team can actually work and make a "name" for itself. Jin is one of my favorites but he is horrible on point compared to other duos. He brings a good assist (AAA) to teams so he serves his purpose but his assist doesn't cover a whole vertical screen like CapCom or set-up for damage like Cyclops/Psylocke (actually Exp. does but it doesn't compared to them and now I just lost a great AAA) so at best to even compete with Jin teams I basically use "weaker" (more like bootleg) versions of real teams but don't care and just deal with it. Anakaris would be another good example but I guess the high damage he takes scares alot of players from playing him. I feel bad for any Thanos fans of this game, lol..

[shockwave15]

Originally posted by Athanasy
Great thread.

[Hellfromabove]

Originally posted by Murakumo
I play Dhalsim...


That makes 2 of us. People don't see much in this guy but if you try hard enough you can rush down and also reset the hell outta them. Also if you take your time in practicing with him you can start to lead your opponent into traps. Also another reason I use the team I do (Dhal/Col/Storm) is because using the basic 5 if just soooooooooooooooooo boring and also to do sweet combos. That's what's ruining the game unline CvS2 where you can be good with practically anyone including Dan. Oh well, I just started on this team and hope to bring it to next years Evo. Thanx.

-See Ya!!!

[google]

I just want to list other characters that have potential in my eye. Basically the characters no one will ever take time with.

-Felicia
-Venom
-Marrow
-Captain America
-Son Son
-Amingo
-Anakaris
-Colossus
-Silver Samurai

Until someone truly plays with them and takes them over the hump, no one will even think about the idea of picking them.
I could rant about them, but I dont feel like it.

[Remix1213]

Originally posted by white shadow


*coach/mother mode* You can never have that kind of mentality!!! *mode off* :p

I'm glad people like Vegita-X are stepping into the woodwork. I've been using Rogue and Sakura since the beginning, trying to use them to their full potential and it's worked. I play Rogue and Sak better than I could ever do with Magz or Storm, even though I can do combos easily. (Combos mean nothing w/o strats :() I've beaten so many top tier teams with Rogue and Sakura.:)

Platinum Pinoy, yes there was a thread talking about a Cable inf and a Storm inf!!! :eek:

Here's the Sakura Thread: http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/thread42666.php

I've devoted ALL my knowledge about her in this thread. Mostly about regular Sakura though.:p

Rogue: http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/thread25780.php

So here's your chance in learning new potentially deadly characters. :D
My Quote owns

[Mixup]

I dunno about all this...

[UncleSid]

I just got back from a small little torny at my local arcade and it was all big 4. Now i love this game and i love to play the big 4 just becuase of their ungodly attributes but its really time to start looking at the game differently.

I was a bit drunk going into it and i got to thinking that it is JUST a game. That doesn't mean you have to play like a scrub but if people took the time to find the new stratigies with mid tier characters the game would becuase much more fun again... like you know... a game instead of some sort of quasi-work experince.

And besides how many fuckin props would you get if you beat justin in a tornament using 2 mid-tier charcters and a top-tier assist. :p

Now thats something to work for.

[Rhio2k]

Originally posted by Juicy G
Warning: If you’re attention span is that of a 3 year old and can’t do a lot of reading then be prepared....

But aren't people with A.D.D. the core Super Glitchy Spazzy Twitch-Fest...er, I mean mvc2 players? :lol:

[C_2]

Originally posted by UncleSid


And besides how many fuckin props would you get if you beat justin in a tornament using 2 mid-tier charcters and a top-tier assist. :p

Now thats something to work for.


u will get shit loads of props just for beating him....

[caylen]

I wish someone had recorded some of the Ed (I think it was?) casual matches in Orlando.
He was destroying top tier teams left and right with thanos/hulk/col.
It was hilarious, one blocked psylocke assist usually meant dead psy :lol:

[Jin Cena]

Originally posted by Gen2000

Some players are lucky though that they're favorite characters actually have some untapped potentinal to show and the best example I can think of is vegita-x with his Rogue. Rogue actually has more mobility, which is very important in this game, and better priority than rest of the not so popular characters. Her super has quick start-up and invincible frames on it at the beginning and he has Storm backing her up so she is all good for being DHC friendly (Hailstorm makes anything good). Rogue/Storm/Tron is just MSTron except with Rogue subbing in for Magneto but she is such a decent sub that the team can actually work and make a "name" for itself. Jin is one of my favorites but he is horrible on point compared to other duos. He brings a good assist (AAA) to teams so he serves his purpose but his assist doesn't cover a whole vertical screen like CapCom or set-up for damage like Cyclops/Psylocke (actually Exp. does but it doesn't compared to them and now I just lost a great AAA) so at best to even compete with Jin teams I basically use "weaker" (more like bootleg) versions of real teams but don't care and just deal with it. Anakaris would be another good example but I guess the high damage he takes scares alot of players from playing him. I feel bad for any Thanos fans of this game, lol..

Yay, go Jin:D At one point I actually thought Jin was a popular Mvc 2 character, and high up there in the tier list. Of course that was about 2 years ago and after losing pretty badly to this guy who used Jin/Cyke/Silver Sam and Blackheart/Jin/Sent. I now know that those 2 teams would probably get crushed by Team Scrub and Watts.

But you could imagine my suprise when I did try using him back then, only to find out he has slow speed and no natural good comboes. :rolleyes: But I still like to use him for fun. In fact he's one of the funnest low tiers to use imo. Atleast better than Akuma and Dan who are just plain gay.:lame:

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by Ho0v-Man
If you think Storm can only fight w/ assists or an already established lead, you should pick up Evo2k4 dvd and go to tournament highlights. There is this one match where Mixup's Storm(I think it was Mixup:confused: ) drops a whole team no assists or anything.:cool: No offense, but maybe you're not playing her right. I still think Storm is good, I just think Mags, Cable and Sentinel are above her. It's kinda like how the top tier used to be 8 characters then it was broken off.

Also Mixup is hella tight.

[Juicy G]

Originally posted by ytwojay

.



Good points...But lets see here:

well IMO she MAKES magneto what he is today,this was the mostly the base as to why i placed psylocke there.



I used to have so much faith in Psylocke, but every year my confidence in her dropped, and this year, I'm finally hanging up MSP as my main team. As a general assist, Psy gets killed by drones and Captain Corridor, two of the most popular assists in the game. On top of that, she gets rocked hard if you don't cover her while calling her out.


The best msp players i've seen (like soo and justin)are really good at protecting psylocke in that matchup. They never call her out when out of position(or in position to get capcom'ed and then get owned up).If psylocke is called you have to reconize if you're in position to make sentinel pay or at worst think about commiting to your psylocke.This match takes patience and Smart movement to win.But even then it's still tough against a sent who's how to block.Oh yeah you forgot to mention that UB on psylocke is 50/50 now thanks to the guessing game that is U-Rh : ).

on Mss-a:

Like i originally posted Mag/Sent-a is very potent and is used with good reason.I mean i can understand why people would pick this team:

1:you have sentinel now,which is always a conforting thought
2: Dhc for days,one hit from any character is almost always a free dhc waiting(which does great damage no matter the order)because you almost always have shitload of meter.
3:Comeback possibities are high (refer to reason 2 and sprinkle in a little of reason 1)

so with even all of that said,i don't think mag/sent-a is THAT good against other top teams because basically when you pick that team, you're basically saying that your magneto is better than you.Mag/psy doesn't always require you to be better than your opponett,just get that one psy hit and off you go(refer to what i said about created openings).not to mention this team has obvious trouble against pretty much every top team in the game(ow my head).

One last thing about psylocke against sent-a.it kinda like capcom in the instance you pick santhrax.I mean you COULD pick sentinel then storm and then Cable or Cyclops.But it doesn't neccessarily make your team better does it???

[Rairu]

Dasrik has clearly lost his mind.

[TS]

About more characters being played making MvC2 a better game...not really. I mean maybe, or maybe people just start getting rocked by random inescapable Cable/Gambit guard breaks or fail to block Rogue/Tron instead of Mag/Tron.

[KaiSingrz]

The State of MvC2 today: Sentinel
that is all...

[ONE Weapon]

I don't think starting to pick low tier is necessary, the game's still fun wit top 4(unless you got somethin that works like vegita-x rogue madness, etc.)

[fishjie]

i played dhalsim for a while he seems like a great counter to magneto.

his limbs pretty much SNUFF out magneto like no other. jumping roundhouse to stop him from superjumping and airdashing straight forward. standing roundhouse or string of crouching jabs and crouching fierce to keep magnus on da ground. ITS ALL GOOD. cancel all da attacks with a yoga fire. basically youve got the range to stop magneto, punish his psylocke, and keep shit on the screen like yoga fires. the optimal distance is a full limbs length away. if magneto is any closer u r SCREWEWD and probably played him wrong.

but i gave up dhalsim becuz sentinel capcom owned him horribly. i find that when sent flies i have no clue what i should do? i cant force him to stop flying by jumpin up and attackin cuz my limbs stay on the screen too long which is enuf for commando to destroy.

i like to play guile. i find he stops runaway storm, and ive done well with him against magneto. then again thats probably cuz most ppl arent used to fighting guile :(

...............

[50 SENT]

Originally posted by Rairu
Dasrik has clearly lost his mind.

[Chaos]

Well all of this really means one thing, IMO MSS-a will eventually be widely seen as the best team in the game. I know how good santhrax is, but the bottom line is eventually capcom has to make an appearance, and then the team suffers. Magneto players are now snapping sentinel out on first contact and bringing in capcom, inescapable guard break/infinite to corner/ unmashable tempest good night. You are then left with storm sentinel, but storms assist is certainly no replacement for capcom. Basically I can now runaway for free, and the only thing to worry me is floating wk/LA/LS/DHC. And just how long can you float and wait for me to try and hit you when I'm winning? Not to mention after you kill capcom you can simply guard break incoming character as well. This is where MSS shines, magnus is a walking randomizer if he lands a hit great, if not dump meter on storm/sent. and go for the DHC.

IMO marvel is headed toward teams where all 3 characters are point viable, the competition is so fierce and the level of players so close that the only distinguishing factors are whose exection is on point that day, who can block the best (currently the deciding factor in skill levels), and who lands the first hit. With snapbacks as prevelant as they are and one hit kills existing with basically all the big 4, you can no longer afford to have a assist only 3rd, unless you have NYC type sentinel skills. So that means people will start to lean towards two teams, MSS, or storm/sent/cyclops. And of course the odd storm/cable/sent or cyc.

What does all this mean for the two character and assist format? Well basically that we are going to see even more narrowing of the field, I see only two of these type teams remaining viable (3 actually, but one is merely a variation). What are those two teams? Easy, Santhrax and MSP/MST. This is because sentinel is so damn good with capcom that he doesn't have to GET hit that one time, the other is that Magnus + boss assist = random win. However I just do not think that anyone is good enough to win a major with MSP or MST these days. Sentinel is to hard to hit one time against teh elite players and once your left with storm/psy or storm/tronne agaisnt storm/cap your in trouble. And that goes double if they have sent. still hanging around pumping out drones. Many would argue that MST is only a bastardized MSP, but if indeed the field does shift to MSS, MST is a hard counter and that is why I place it as listed. Also again, random hit + tronne kills FAST.

I will end these remarks by requesting responses, I am curious as to how others view the lay of the land in MVC2 post-evo. Also I will note that I am not an elite player by any stretch of the imagination, but that is due to the fact that I am in a doctoral program so the play time just isn't there. However I do play i several large tourneys a year and watch shitloads of high level play, and happen to specialize in theory fighter.

[Skyler]

No one is going to play with low tier character in MVC2 except Clockwork, zazaa, and that rogue player. Justin wong won 4 Evolution toury's and he still uses the top 4. How come Justin isnt downgrading to blackheart, spiral, strider, or Iron man?? I know would if I'm already good with the top 4. Gives me a challenge just to play with the low tier character and win Evo with it, but so far if you look at the top 8 finalist, what team did they use? the top 4 again with no one using 2nd tier characters. Thats why MVC2 starting to suck now cause its turning out to be like SFA3, but worse cause japanese dont play this game.

No matter which MVC2 tourny we goto, its always gonna be the same team with magneto, storm, sentinel, and cable being pick. We might get lucky and someone picks wolverine, gambit, and ryu otherwise, good luck on that. Every match look like the same too much now and everybody uses the same tactics that they know so far. MVC2 is fun alright, but sometimes I felt like i rather be playing SFA3 or CVS2 more than MVC2.

Its like once the MVC2 match starts, someone already starts a rom infinite, snap back the main guy, kill off the main guy in 10sec, run away, hyper viper beam, or 2 same guy in the match. Finding good match's are hard now and all these other match people post are too smiliar and hella suck. MVC2 just seems like its going no where anymore instead its the samething every year. Yea i thought it would be the same with 3rdstrike with daigo just kicking justins ass, but then daigo pull off one of the best comeback ever:eek: we need a MVC3:mad:

[HeaT]

heres the thing. you all say that justin is above everybody in the game. i disagree. there are certain people (a lot) which i believe are at the same level he is. But then you ask why does he win all the time. well when you reach that level its not about how much you know its about how much you think. what do i mean by that. what i mean is that, he just plays smarter than everyone else, he out plays the opponent mentally. what it comes down to when you at that level is how smart you play, the other peeps just aint beating him cause they not playing smarter, not cause they dont know the engine better or cause they dont have the execution skills he does or the dexterity or whatever...

im outi

Roberth

ps...no other characters outside the main will be experimented with cause it has been tried and they will lose miserably, especially in the state that sent/commando has receached...even if some did good against top tier, they will die horribly to sent/commando...

[epsilon_]

MSS is overrated as hell you guys. Best team in the game? Uhh no. Scrub and storm/sent AAA teams are better. I also think Mag Sent-a Cykes is a hella good and underrated.

[Javid]

Originally posted by HeaT
heres the thing. you all say that justin is above everybody in the game. i disagree. there are certain people (a lot) which i believe are at the same level he is. But then you ask why does he win all the time. well when you reach that level its not about how much you know its about how much you think. what do i mean by that. what i mean is that, he just plays smarter than everyone else, he out plays the opponent mentally. what it comes down to when you at that level is how smart you play, the other peeps just aint beating him cause they not playing smarter, not cause they dont know the engine better or cause they dont have the execution skills he does or the dexterity or whatever...

im outi

Roberth

ps...no other characters outside the main will be experimented with cause it has been tried and they will lose miserably, especially in the state that sent/commando has receached...even if some did good against top tier, they will die horribly to sent/commando...


Very nicely stated and that is the simple truth. This game isn't about combos but about traps and techniques. And let's face it the top 4 have so much easy shit to exploit that it's the tried and tested method that works. I highly doubt that anyone can take out Justin with some fucked up team that is hardly used.


Another issue is the natural imbalance in this game. It's times like this that I like to reminisce about Marvel vs. Capcom 1 when matches were still fun to watch and so many different teams were used.

[Chaos]

Originally posted by javidjin2099



Very nicely stated and that is the simple truth. This game isn't about combos but about traps and techniques. And let's face it the top 4 have so much easy shit to exploit that it's the tried and tested method that works. I highly doubt that anyone can take out Justin with some fucked up team that is hardly used.


Another issue is the natural imbalance in this game. It's times like this that I like to reminisce about Marvel vs. Capcom 1 when matches were still fun to watch and so many different teams were used.


Yes and when you reminisce about the old days of MVC1 your obviously ignoring the thrilling dual war machine race to duo matches and the onslaught of wolverines and red venoms that filled that game...... I am beginning to think that ANY game that is based on the vs. engine is going to end up being top heavy at its highest levels of play, the advent of so many avenues of manueverablility leaves those without them light years behind (in other words, no air dash, you suck). And when you add in the prime feature of marvel, unlimited assist calling, you further hinder those without mobility. Bottom line in an VS engine game speed is great, and mobility (ways to use that speed, dash, air dash, 8 way air dash) is king.

All of which raises the question though, after years of play, don't ALL fighting games reach a point where there is only a select roster available to be played to win? You see the same characters in every game for a reason, they are the best. Sadly for us the days of getting a new VS. game every 2 years are gone, and since in many cases the marvel player is not a fighting game fan but rather a marvel fan we are going to lose an entire section, if not a generation, of players before to long. Damn you capcom, and your refusal to make a sequel to one of the most wildly popular arcade games you ever created.

[white shadow]

Originally posted by javidjin2099

It's times like this that I like to reminisce about Marvel vs. Capcom 1 when matches were still fun to watch and so many different teams were used.

God no. MVC1 was even worse, after people found out the tiers it was just Wolvie, Gold WM, and Red Venom all day with some random Striders. MVC2 matches at least have some variety in the outcome of matches, but in MVC1 Wolvie touches you... you die, Red Venom toches you... you die, Gold War Machine touches you, you die HORRIBLY.

Everything was just infinite----> guardbreak----> infinite at high levels, so boring!!!:mad: Guardbreaks were even easier back then.

[margalis]

Mobility is really the key in MVC2, the best characters all either have great mobility or can stifle mobility. (Or both)

Because you can call assists so often, and because the assists are good, it cuts down on the avenues of attack available to linear characters. A guy like Colossus can basically just keep moving forward and attacking from the same angles over and over.

Every character that has ever been considered near the top either has mobility (Storm, Magneto, Sentinel, IM) or can shut it down. (Doom, Spiral, Cable, Blackheart, Dhalsim) Usually, the keepaway guys are at a disadvantage, as they can do a lot less damage to one mistake. Cable is an exception, which is why he has stayed as high as he has while others have dropped off.
---
Mobility was important in other Marvel/VS games but not to the same extent because no character could keep tons of angles cut off or consistently attack from multiple angles at once.

[TS]

I still don't understand why people call second-tier characters "low-tier." Whatever...

Originally posted by ONE Weapon
I don't think starting to pick low tier is necessary, I still think the game's fun wit top 4(unless you got somethin that works like vegita-x rogue madness, etc.)
That's the thing though; people assume Rogue is the best character that's not being played (assuming they acknowledge Vegita-X at all, as his performance tends to clearly spit in the face of the whole "only four characters matter" thing).

These are the people who can't even play their assist characters...

[qwazy]

it's not that it's "vegita-x rogue madness", it's the fact that rogue's always been there and no one's given her true chance until vegita-x skeeted on everyone front door.

i'm in no way tryin' to discredit vegita-x 'cause i saw that nigga play firsthand and he aint no joke. his skills go beyond just rogue. foo's got a bomb storm as well.

joe zaza wrote a thesis in the team tourney thread about how it's not that the players of these low-tier teams are god-like figures that turn shitty characters into contenders. while these players are great players, the characters themselves are somethin' to look into.

if someone took the time to learn how to win with duo wolvies like zaza has, or how to win with rogue/tron like vegita-x has, they could be just as effective. zaza himself doesnt alter wolvie at all. he doesnt magically make wolverine a beast. his attributes arent multiplied just because zaza is holdin' the stick and pushin' the buttons. zaza must have seen a potential in wolverine and tapped into it. zaza took duo wolvies, developed tactics and strategies that win. same with vegita-x. they dont sprinkle pixy dust and these characters suddenly become contenders. they've always been usable, it's just no one's given them the time of day.

as for justin? justin's just a genius at marvel. his comprehension of the game is so beyond anyone in the US, it's unbelievable.

like jordan has the gift of basketball, justin has the gift of playin' marvel (as cheesy/geek/lame as that may seem). kid can just fuckin' play. he gets it. nuff said. it's effortless. it's second nature to this kid and i dont think anyone in the US can touch that.

btw, this isnt directed toward any one person and isnt a reply to any particular post. just my thoughts on the subject.

[Mixup]

Mss-a is fuckin cheap

msp is the best magnus team

thrax is really annoying

go re-read ORGs post again if anyone is even confused about the CURRENT state of things

[NeREMIXED]

Originally posted by HeaT
heres the thing. you all say that justin is above everybody in the game. i disagree. there are certain people (a lot) which i believe are at the same level he is. But then you ask why does he win all the time. well when you reach that level its not about how much you know its about how much you think. what do i mean by that. what i mean is that, he just plays smarter than everyone else, he out plays the opponent mentally. what it comes down to when you at that level is how smart you play, the other peeps just aint beating him cause they not playing smarter, not cause they dont know the engine better or cause they dont have the execution skills he does or the dexterity or whatever...

...

him playing smarter is what puts him on a higher level than everyone else.

[Juicy G]

Originally posted by Mixup
Mss-a is fuckin cheap

msp is the best magnus team

thrax is really annoying

go re-read ORGs post again if anyone is even confused about the CURRENT state of things


Wtf is your problem?!what kind of problem do you have with my opinions on the scene.If you DO have a problem,then please state them.

[Blaziniflo]

Originally posted by HeaT
heres the thing. you all say that justin is above everybody in the game. i disagree. there are certain people (a lot) which i believe are at the same level he is. yo kwazy kid. you really haven't played justin if you really think that.

[-=Infinite=-]

Originally posted by Mixup
Mss-a is fuckin cheap

msp is the best magnus team

thrax is really annoying

go re-read ORGs post again if anyone is even confused about the CURRENT state of things

i agree

[Mixup]

Originally posted by Juicy G



Wtf is your problem?!what kind of problem do you have with my opinions on the scene.If you DO have a problem,then please state them.

No real problem

i respect what u have to say, and agree with some of it

i put more stock in magnus and cable than you do.

No need to think i'm hatin

i just had very little time to post.

sry if it seemed haterate styles

[FMJaguar]

Firstly i agree with the premise that a lot of marvel today is mental, we know most of the things there are to know as far as the system. Maybe like chess in a way, the moves are all out on the table, we just have to see who puts together a better game.

As to the team issue, you could propose that we would have more variety if people started concentrating on mid-tier teams. However i could counter by saying that those teams would win LESS if everyone tried harder.

Teams like vegita's and zaza's have some weaknesses on paper, but they use the same idea that we just discussed... that you aren't going to outthink them. The problem with that, and with mid tier in general, is that as soon as you are at the same level mentally, the team breaks down and is defeated without too much trouble. It's kind of a crapshoot as to whether you'll have more or less variety. Japan solves this by making things single game, so it tends to randomize things enough to make it worth learning a different team to get that chance to sneak in. Does that make things better or worse? we really can't tell, since noone has both japans competition level, and the US's tournament format.

As for what the game will come to, the 2char+assist will survive as long as there are magneto teams... when your playing vs magneto your character almost doesn't matter (unless its sentinel), either you block and win, or dont and die. Technically you could play */*/tron or cable/*/* and have a fighting chance. I think things will become less diverse if magneto goes away. Storm/sent or sent/aaa or sent/storm does a lot better against the magneto counters IMO.

I still don't think it's a terrible situation tho. In boxing you have the same character every match and it's still exciting (as long as it's not heavyweight). I think people who are into competiton will still appreciate the finer things that seperate a good sent from a great sent, and be able to enjoy the matches. I have to say it's kind of funny that people mentioned a3 and cvs2 as 'alternatives' to mvc2 tho, i wouldn't get sucked up into that idea, if any game was played as much as mvc2 we'd have the same problems

[Juicy G]

Originally posted by Mixup


No real problem

i respect what u have to say, and agree with some of it

i put more stock in magnus and cable than you do.

No need to think i'm hatin

i just had very little time to post

sry if it seemed haterate styles


Np,actually i'm not biased towards mags at all.When i did that ranking i based them off of chars that change the way matches are played.That's why i said "not nessicarily the best".But Magneto is always a crapshoot and because it's never a sure thing you'll get in and win,I can never see him overtaking sentinel as best character,he's at least #3 though as far best character is concerned IMO. That's just me though,and i respect your opinions on this matter.

[VkreW]

lmao justin wins with magneto 100% so so much for you top 3

[Juicy G]

Originally posted by FMJaguar
Firstly i agree with the premise that a lot of marvel today is mental, we know most of the things there are to know as far as the system. Maybe like chess in a way, the moves are all out on the table, we just have to see who puts together a better game.




This is what i was aiming at in my original statement.we all know what happens in a match now.So i think it's possible to come up with counters to those patterns. I never said "DROP TOP TIER NOW". The teams that around are considered the best for a reason.But considering the knowledge that we all know about the game.Don't you think that the next time you play you should make a more concentrated effort to start denying or countering these spots. If you have a favorite team,ANY team and it has counter's (like how dhalsim and rogue became a hot topic)then it's up to the PLAYER to figure how to get around the counters.

[Murakumo]

CapCom assist owns Dhalsim...

Tron can kill Cap...

Sent covers ground to keep CapCom safe against Tron...

I need to use Cable to try and shoot that bitch (CapCom or Sent).

New counter... Cable/Sim/Sent? Sim/Cable/Sent?...


Otherwise... Sim hasn't done too bad for me against the big 4... mainly CapCom assist that gives me problems.


~Murakumo

[monkeyspank]

this is what i think

I think the teams that win are teams with the big four involved for example um...sent,cable,gief(now this team dont win all the time its just a pretty good team and well u can fuck some shit up with it) now im not saying this team will pwn in tournys like evo but all im saying is that any team will cable/sent/storm/mag/commando/etc will have a high chance in winning...

now then as for wong retireing i really hope he doesnt cuz it just woulndt be the same to win evo without him..it'd be like an empty win ya know..

i use teams like felicia/mag/tron...sent/commando/gief...mag,storm,sim..etc i dont win all the time in tourneys but i fuck some shit up..lol then i go and choose santhrax(or as i call it sandbag) and win =\...

but what im getting at is if a game like sf turbo is still played till this day mvc2 will be played for a while as well..

btw whatever happend to that ironman unblockable?

[FMJaguar]

Originally posted by Juicy G

This is what i was aiming at in my original statement.we all know what happens in a match now.So i think it's possible to come up with counters to those patterns. I never said "DROP TOP TIER NOW". The teams that around are considered the best for a reason.But considering the knowledge that we all know about the game.Don't you think that the next time you play you should make a more concentrated effort to start denying or countering these spots. If you have a favorite team,ANY team and it has counter's (like how dhalsim and rogue became a hot topic)then it's up to the PLAYER to figure how to get around the counters.

I think that oversimplifies the strategy of MvC2. The diversity isn't always in choosing a whole different character. The choice between say storm/sent and sent/storm CAN make or break your team. Two people can even choose the excat same team and play it differently. I think when we think about diversity at a high level, each aspect of the game comes into play, so while most people look at a match and see 'the same thing over and over', it's more or less from a spectator's point of view.

I don't understand a lot of the cry for diversity i guess. The counter to me is just improving your game and playing to win, not trying to impress people by using different characters.

In addition, mid tier characters often have less variety to them, in most cases they HAVE to be played a certain way to be successful. If you see 10 sentinels, you can probably find more differences between them than if you see 10 dhalsims.

[popoblo]

will somebody please field my question on page 2:D

[TS]

Originally posted by popoblo
are trapping teams still effective? honestly? sure, strider/doom is good, but one mistake and you're in serious trouble (plus it takes a whole lot of time and dedication to learn all the ins and outs of the trap). and what about spiral? where did all the spiral players go?

here's my main question- what's the best spiral team? i read somewhere that white (i think it's white, the good japanese spiral player) uses spiral/sent/capcom, and it makes sense. if spiral dies, sent/capcom is such a power duo that is very capable of making big comebacks.

what about spiral/cable/sent or spiral/cable/cyclops (duc's old teams)? but since players have gotten a whole lot smarter when fighting against cable, cable isn't always guaranteed to dump all the meter on the character (or assist).

so what about something else, some team not mentioned? the major problem with the aforementioned 3 teams is that they can't really use the meter spiral gains. so what about something like spiral/storm/cyc? storm and cyc can definitely use the meter, even if it's just to chip, and storm/cyc is such a solid duo. but then again, they lack the potential to make a big comeback if spiral gets owned (unlike the spiral/sent/capcom team).

and since people can guard cancel out of the spiral/sent trap, wouldn't cyclops be a better choice on the team than sentinel? when you call cyclops, that usually means spiral has the time to call swords, which is what makes spiral good.

just wondering who works well with spiral.

peace

Well not many people play Spiral anymore- which is actually because she's hard to play, and not guard canceling. But with all the M/S/S and M/S/P going around, I'm sorta surprised people haven't gotten back into her (not really). If you can deal with Magneto, Spiral is hella useful. Storm/Sent still hard to deal with, even with a Spiral-cenric teaam like Spiral/Sent/BH, but since I haven't seen high level Spiral play in like a year, those matches may have gotten better.

As for best team, I dunno. If your Spiral can beat or even go even with Mag, Spiral/Sent/Cyke almost counters a lot of good teams. White played/plays Spiral/Sent/Cap, and someone who went over to Japan (either Buk, Omni or Clock) said that it was like 1.5 times better than Duc's Spiral, but I don't know much else about him or the team.

Ah, to anwser the question, trapping teams are good, but lockdown is basicaly dead. It's not so much about not having any holes, since Strider/Doom and Spiral/Sabretooth are literally like the only teams in the game who can come close to making that claim. Trap teams can't really OCV anymore, but the characters still contribute greatly to teams.

Thing is, it's like Musker mentioned before with Dhalsim- Spiral is good, she just happens to get countered by stuff that's really popular, ie Sentinel, and IMO Storm w/Sent-G.

[Augmint]

Trapping teams need to land hits besides chipping. So spiral needs to land aircombos/ ground throws (20% isn't hard if you mash well)/ corner resets/ or good ground combos (like the ones Banshee listed in the strat section). Problem is its hard.

Strider - Doom chips so much better because he doesn't have to worry about reloading (only the odd wall climb) and he can use Doom twice during a single oroborous (and put Doom behingd them for so much chip). How many swords does spiral have to do to get the equivalent chip damage?
And striders normals (eg launcher,j HK) and airthrow are damn good.

I used to use spiral/sent /commando - now using cyke instead of commando. Both really help spiral. Commando works alot better against sentinel, & you have the option to counter in commando xx qcf +2p xx HSF...

I like cyclops in that you can follow up on gene splice - sj magic series, spiral buster, toss them down and reload. Cyke doesn't have to do much against non cable teams besides sj and build meter, and chip. Also if you lose sentinel you can reload swords well with cyclops AAA to cover.

btw IIRC it was clock who posted about whites team

I don't think spiral /storm would work that well IMO. You can chip alot better with sent and I don't think you can guard cancel out of HP + spiral proj, RP xx HSF (at least not between the 2nd and 3rd set of drones).

[popoblo]

good input. so basically people just don't want to learn spiral in depth, not necessarily that she's a bad character?

i'd say team structures nowadays hurt a big aspect of spiral's game, aka her teleport. the most common teams nowadays are sent/storm/capcom, MSP, MSS, MST, MSC, sent/storm/cyc, etc etc etc. THEY ALL HAVE STORM IN THE MIDDLE. so if spiral teleports to escape a super or something, she's eating a DHC'd hailstorm which hurts big time. so spiral's teleport is nearly obsolete unless your opponent doesn't have storm second (which is kinda rare, only team row and team scrub come to mind immediately).

[TheDarkPhoenix]

Well spiral is byfar my fave character in the game and for me strom is her worst nightmare. I been thinking about tryin to find a way to use her speed up effectivly. maybe i can create some kinda min t. Jump with her speed up, then super jump and then that fast dive down move. (don't know the name) Anyway i think spiral still has much more to explore.....

[raxe]

like I ususally say, I'm kinda new to the scene.... almost 2 years new.

Now something I notice about the higher level thrax play is well.... not only is the shit so elite but the players are experienced enough to know not all but the larger number of probable situations where they will either come out on top, or they know those/that same # of situations where they will defend to come out on top (the first was from an offensive standpoint).

I can't play thrax, and it depresses me sometimes. I play the comp, and well sent destroys everyone but its not enough to learn from to actually play at these high levels. When I attempt to bring my thrax to the good thrax's in the area I get creamed, and unfortunately no one has the time to spend with me to "train" me in the ways.

So.... what I do play is Magneto. My most used team is MSP. Its not a scrubby one either, its kinda a reflecting one. I'm always coming up against almost insurmountable opposition and I always take a brief moment and think... these guys are either attacking random, or running a pattern. MSP don't live long, but as long as everyone has some pixels left and you can go mobile like a cellphone I personally think you have a good chance of winning the match.

Maybe its just wishful thinking, but wouldn't a counter to the usual ubXXrpXXHSF be either a setup or just straight rush with the objective of either ROM'ing into point and assist or a setup into the psy hit which catches them both? I mean, with thrax assists the most probable death would be capcoms. The team is easier to fight without capcom, cause now you have the ability to airdash much more safely.

As far as dealing with storm/sent.... I think its a patience thing. Because once sent's unfly runs out you just gotta make sure you don't let him go so he can unfly trap you again. Of course that requires pimp mag/psy execution.

Now I've been experimenting with mscyke and msdoom a bit just as far as how well I can hold my opponent without them being able to do anything about it. I'm better with psy, but if it is both possible and I can learn it with cyke and doom, for damn sure I will.

I don't think thrax (or mss-a, your opinion) will be the best team forever. I actually think it will be teams that remove the options that thrax has, and it usually ends up being landing that hit. Now if the thrax player is skillfull enough to avoid or prevent you from landing the hit you have to resort to techniques to either slowly take them down or be prepared for a loss. No one wins all the time.

Just my thoughts, MSP fo life.

[Big_marcus86]

I think team marcus (BH/doom/OR) has a lot of power and potential to actually stand in contention, with some combos you can come up with. The problem is mainly psylocke for me, coupled with magneto, because of the test it gives on my reflexes. Variation is possible, but like anything else, it takes a extended period of time to find a lower calibur team to work with, and many people are swayed from experimenting because of it.

[eddymasta]

The thing everyone has to remember is that players like J. Wong are not some kind of superhero, they're just another player... HIGHLY skilled players, but we can be that good too if we just work at it! If we put them up on a pedestal, we'll never be able to reach their level... We gotta have confidence!

[HaoGui]

Well when I see justin playing casuals at tourneys he OCV's top tier teams sometimes with low tier teams, so they can definitely be played. Even though of course he uses top tier in the actual tourney for the most part. So it definitely can be done. Well you all probably have seen the latest vids from the last FL tourney, if not check them out.

Anyway if we wanna see what else can be good in MvC2 maybe we should start having non-big 4 tourneys as well as regular MvC tourneys, it would be interesting to see what would be top tier and people will be willing to explore with other characters some more.

[Ho0v-Man]

non-big four tourneys would be great. the game would be a lot more fun if every team wasn't based around at least one of them. I think it would help if they were put into the top tier w/ the rest. They might become a LITTLE less common if they didn't have their own tier. Not to mention the top-tier characters would get a little more respect too. Right now there's only like one or two characters in the top-tier that are used for reasons outside of their assists.

[FMJaguar]

non-big four tourneys would be great. the game would be a lot more fun if every team wasn't based around at least one of them. I think it would help if they were put into the top tier w/ the rest. They might become a LITTLE less common if they didn't have their own tier. Not to mention the top-tier characters would get a little more respect too. Right now there's only like one or two characters in the top-tier that are used for reasons outside of their assists.

Ironman,capcom,doom,bh,spiral,cyke, that's off the top of my head. IMO removing the top tier also removes a lot of the depth of the game, it'll go back to dash, chain, assist, repeat. I think a lot of people liked it better that way tho.

[Pryde]

Ok, here's my 2 cents

1. Ok, Juicy G, I must disagree with you on Psylocke, true that she is feared by everyone, but I just think she's too much of a liability for anyone to pick her. She takes too much damage as an assist, she's not so great on point, cuz of the fact she can't chip too well. I feel that most of the top tier characters in the game are up there because of their ability to chip, besides Magneto. I mean take a look and think for a moment. Cable, Sentinel, Storm, Spiral, Cyclops, Strider, Doom, and Black Heart were all considered top tier because of their ability to build meter and chip as they pleased. Although it doesn't seem to make much sense, it's true though. Chipping = guarunteed no life back.

2. Dasrik, I disagree with you on Storm, she's so godly, the fact that she has both tactics at her advantage, rushdown and runaway makes her lethal and formidable character to fight. Her projectile has some of the best properties in the game going through and ripping through about all projectiles in the game.

3. Alot of 2nd tier characters such as Guile, Rogue, Omega Red, etc. are never played in tournies cuz of their inability to chip. I really believe in this. Guile has some great priorities in his moves, but the fact that he didn't have a dash and no real chip moves made him a 2nd tier character. Rogue also, although she has great rush down, auto tri-jump and an unblockable (kiss) she couldn't do any real damage unless she landed a hit on her opponent.

4. The Ability to float in the air or manuever also has great impact on the game, such as double/triple jump, air dash, flying mode and teleport effects people on who to choose. Sentinel, Storm, Magneto, Doom, Spiral, Iron Man/War Machine, Cyclops, and Strider all had one or more of these abilities. Cable had a great floater to delay his way down to the floor, such as grenade or (A)hvb, that's why Justin used this to make his infamous come back on X.

well this is just my 2 cents...will post more later.

[Robust]

sent/cable/bh is the future. This team is unbeatable. think about it.

[Ho0v-Man]

Ironman,capcom,doom,bh,spiral,cyke, that's off the top of my head.


Is this part agreeing w/ me or contradicting me? Also, you're from state college? is there even an arcade there? I'm up in that area every now and then.(Granted it's only couple times a year) We should get down for some games.

[Robyrt]

It seems to me that the most important asset for a top tier character is maneuverability advantage. This is why Storm and Sent are so amazing, because they can be almost anywhere on the screen they want to off a superjump and they can prevent you from doing the same. Magneto is extremely fast and can lock you down on the ground but isn't as good at keeping you down once you get jumping. Cable can restrict your maneuverability very well, but isn't amazingly maneuverable himself.

The second tier point characters also have plenty of maneuverability advantages. Cyke, IM, Doom, Strider, Spiral, even Rogue are all significantly more maneuverable than the rest of the cast below them. Psy, Commando, Cyke and Tron (the big assist characters) all specifically shut down a certain kind of movement using damage combined with hit area.

[Larry Flynt]

heres the thing. you all say that justin is above everybody in the game. i disagree. there are certain people (a lot) which i believe are at the same level he is. But then you ask why does he win all the time. well when you reach that level its not about how much you know its about how much you think. what do i mean by that. what i mean is that, he just plays smarter than everyone else, he out plays the opponent mentally. what it comes down to when you at that level is how smart you play, the other peeps just aint beating him cause they not playing smarter, not cause they dont know the engine better or cause they dont have the execution skills he does or the dexterity or whatever...

im outi

Roberth

ps...no other characters outside the main will be experimented with cause it has been tried and they will lose miserably, especially in the state that sent/commando has receached...even if some did good against top tier, they will die horribly to sent/commando...


I disagree. Until I start struggling or losing to other players low-tier teams, then I will say they are on the same level as Justin. Furthermore, if he is smarter then the other players, how can they be on the same level as him? Anyway, on to the topic at hand.

I think Takayuki is the perfect example of what the state of Marvel is today. How got good just by watching Justin Wong videos alone. That right there is the problem today, matches online. Alot players just study these matches and the latest DJ-B13 video and think they are getting better. It is one of the main reasons why most new players can fight today's usual match-ups, but lose to team Watts. Players just need to stop watching videos as guidelines and head their sorry asses to the arcade. If not, get some friends who want to compete also, and start using your imagination. Team Seattle is a perfect example of this, they alone help redefine Mvc2 play. Maybe that is the main problem here. Players are always looking to define Marvel these days. We should focus as a whole and find out others to use what we know. Ok, I'm done.

[XFocus]

The State of MvC2 today: Sentinel
that is all...
I think this is all that needs to be said. I didn't realize it till just recently, but when i went to the arcade to play against people, EVERY SINGLE person i played against had Sent in their team. Quite annoying actually.

So i gave up trying to beat that cause with any team i use, i feel its hopeless, and i'm sporting to new Team XF in hopes of randomly doing well one day: Storm/Sakura/Tron. :tup:

[Juicy G]

Ok, here's my 2 cents

1. Ok, Juicy G, I must disagree with you on Psylocke, true that she is feared by everyone, but I just think she's too much of a liability for anyone to pick her. She takes too much damage as an assist, she's not so great on point, cuz of the fact she can't chip too well. I feel that most of the top tier characters in the game are up there because of their ability to chip, besides Magneto. I mean take a look and think for a moment. Cable, Sentinel, Storm, Spiral, Cyclops, Strider, Doom, and Black Heart were all considered top tier because of their ability to build meter and chip as they pleased. Although it doesn't seem to make much sense, it's true though. Chipping = guarunteed no life back.




Pryde, Once again, I never said she was the best( i think that's what you're implying).But merely said she was important to one of the games top characters(Magneto). All things aside,Cyclops is a better assist but isn't as IMPORTANT to a character's success or can do something for a character that either psylocke or capcom can do better.

[FMJaguar]

I think Takayuki is the perfect example of what the state of Marvel is today. How got good just by watching Justin Wong videos alone. That right there is the problem today, matches online. Alot players just study these matches and the latest DJ-B13 video and think they are getting better. It is one of the main reasons why most new players can fight today's usual match-ups, but lose to team Watts. Players just need to stop watching videos as guidelines and head their sorry asses to the arcade. If not, get some friends who want to compete also, and start using your imagination. Team Seattle is a perfect example of this, they alone help redefine Mvc2 play. Maybe that is the main problem here. Players are always looking to define Marvel these days. We should focus as a whole and find out others to use what we know. Ok, I'm done.

While i see what your saying, I think your off base with that accusation. Videos strengthen whatever habits your currently using. If your intention is to pick out some combo you can't do and say "THATS the reason i'm not winning" it's not the video's fault, it's the player who is not watching it for the right reasons. I could just as well watch the same video and get something very useful from it. I agree that videos shouldn't dictate someone's outlook on the entire game, but i disagree with them being a problem, if anything i think they helped bring the real problems to the surface.

[megafighter]

This Psylocke thing mentioned by Juicy G is interesting to remind us that assist power should be considered according to its teams.

Most people believe that Sentinel C and Capcom are the 2 best assist in the game. For Magneto, however, Psylocke would be much better. For Cable, Cyclops would be better than Capcom, and probably Sent as well.

The way I see it, the correct way to evaluate a top assist is to assess if he is right for the team. Psylocke is the best if your game revolves around Magneto, Capcom is the best if your game revolves around Sentinel, and so on. Probably Cyc, Sent and Doom assists for both Cable and Storm, more or less on that order. That is what I think, at least.


FMJaguar, I made a thread asking people how they watch videos, and since you brought it up, I am curious to read what you think are good ways to learn from them, if it is not a bother to you. Thanks a lot!

[harveyluv]

It's time to unveil the horrible truth.

Storm is not really a good character on her own. She excels in only two things really: runaway and retreat. Her runaway is top notch because chasing her risks getting hit by a short and we all know where that goes. And her retreat (Typhoon xx hail) is great and hard to stop.

But you've probably figured out the problem. These things are only real assets if you're winning. And what people seem to have overlooked is that Storm's offense is full of holes. Sure, she can do crazy rush up close just like Mags if you get close, but that's not where most Storm players want to be anyway. Her attacks don't have as much priority as they seem to. Jumping fierce gets stopped EASILY by a well placed attack. She has two anti-air options which have serious range problems (c.fierce has no horizontal range, s.roundhouse loses flatout to regular jump-ins) which forces you to choose in clinch situations. Basically, being offensive with Storm forces you to risk too much. You can't really get away with just jumping around with roundhouse anymore. Ending aircombos with LA xx LS lets the opponent getting away from you, and ending them with flying screen means you risk losing momentum if your execution is just a little off.

The best way to alleviate Storm's weaknesses is: pair her with Sentinel, so even if you get clobbered, you have the hope of getting that one hit which leads to serious pain or death; or, put her in the middle and get a guy which gets easy leads to go in the middle (*coughMagnetocough*). But that still means she's a means to an end. If you want to improve in Marvel, you should consider this. And if you want to fight Storm, for God's sake, keep this in mind and don't try to hit her where she can't be hit. She has lots of weak points, don't force square pegs into round holes.

MY GOD ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID.

Okay so u (a sorry little skill having player) have the nerve to think that u can undermine the thinking of practically every good player out there. You suck at the game, suck with storm and therefore think she's not as good as she clearly is. I don't need to explain why she's good, cuz any one, who matters in the mvc2 community already knows it.

I'm sick and tired of these stupid ass threads on shoryuken: Low tier charachters in marvel, A different perspective for a new top 4 in marvel, Why servbot is better then sentinel.

Here is bottom line: THE GAME IS STAGNANT BECAUSE IT IS BEING ABUSED TO ITS MAXIMUM CAPACITY. Noone, absolutely noone, can abuse unfly more then sent. Noone, absoultely noone can abuse tri-dash more then magnus. Noone, absolutely noone can abuse runaway more then storm, and sent ABUSES fucking battery. So any FAGGOTS on this message board saying stupid shit like "IMO rogue, really owns sent" obviously sucks at this game and smash brothers is prolly a better game for them.

When people put 4 years into analyzing a game, and taking advantage of its rules, and stretching its boundaries, and manipulating its charachters, don't think that in a few months you, a, stupid, sorry, sucka have the intelligence (when quite obviously you don't) to outsmart the whole community - at least the portion that matters.

Capcom is not top 4 cuz he can't fight on his own, cant fight with assists, and can't fight better then magneto. Psylocke same thing, except can fight better then capcom 1 on 1. Magneto truly has the ability to murder after one hit connected. Storm has the ability to make sure that you never get that one hit connected. Sent has the ability to chip, pressure, and murder, almost in all block stun, and fucking cable....I don't gotta say, he has a running ability comparable to that of storm, and a 1 combo kill 2 charachters factor that just makes him deadly.

NO FUCKING OTHER CHARACHTER CAN DO ANY OF THE AFOREMENTIONED THINGS. THEREFORE ALL U FAGGOTS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT/PUT TO NAUGHT THE EVOLUTION OF MVC2 CAN SUCK THE BIGGEST SLIMIEST THICKEST THROBBINGIST UNCIRCUMCISED POOPDICK.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

It's time to unveil the horrible truth.

IMO:
1. I think Blackheart is still good.
2. I don't think Storm is top tier really.

Before you hang me in effigy, I'll explain myself. Last statement first.

Storm is not really a good character on her own. She excels in only two things really: runaway and retreat. Her runaway is top notch because chasing her risks getting hit by a short and we all know where that goes. And her retreat (Typhoon xx hail) is great and hard to stop.

But you've probably figured out the problem. These things are only real assets if you're winning. And what people seem to have overlooked is that Storm's offense is full of holes. Sure, she can do crazy rush up close just like Mags if you get close, but that's not where most Storm players want to be anyway. Her attacks don't have as much priority as they seem to. Jumping fierce gets stopped EASILY by a well placed attack. She has two anti-air options which have serious range problems (c.fierce has no horizontal range, s.roundhouse loses flatout to regular jump-ins) which forces you to choose in clinch situations. Basically, being offensive with Storm forces you to risk too much. You can't really get away with just jumping around with roundhouse anymore. Ending aircombos with LA xx LS lets the opponent getting away from you, and ending them with flying screen means you risk losing momentum if your execution is just a little off.

The best way to alleviate Storm's weaknesses is: pair her with Sentinel, so even if you get clobbered, you have the hope of getting that one hit which leads to serious pain or death; or, put her in the middle and get a guy which gets easy leads to go in the middle (*coughMagnetocough*). But that still means she's a means to an end. If you want to improve in Marvel, you should consider this. And if you want to fight Storm, for God's sake, keep this in mind and don't try to hit her where she can't be hit. She has lots of weak points, don't force square pegs into round holes.

Now to Blackheart. I never really thought Blackheart was good, but now that Marvel has stagnated this much, I think people should consider his uses again. He can't be played like he was in the past, that's for certain. But played carefully, he is the best staller in the game (better than Storm IMO). You have to really know how to use his demons, beyond the simplistic standby sj.rh airdash back rh. Mostly, you have to take into account what MvC2 offense looks like these days, and have a good knowledge of where your attacks will be.

I'll get into this more later, I've stirred the pot enough.

Top tiers in MvC2 as it stands IMO:

1. Sentinel (best character in game, best assist in game. Has Cable problems, but most MvC2 players are confident enough to deal with them.)
2. Magneto/Psylocke (Walking randomizer, it literally does move faster than the eye can follow and forces opponents to go by player patterns. Yes, I consider Mag/Psy one character.)
3. Commando (having the best vertical controlling assist in the game is reason enough for everyone to pick this guy)
4. Storm (needs either a lead or Sentinel to really be dangerous. Still good because most people don't really know how to fight her.)
5. Magneto (without Psylocke, Magneto requires the player to have a full knowledge of his attack properties and to have good habits regarding combos. He's still good)
6. Cable (still good for the handful of crappy Sents out there, and the hope of being able to kill a character, an assist or both is worth the price of admission)
you've lost it...how can people respect ur posts when u say storm isn't that good of a character and then place more value in having commando than storm...iono...

[Hoonyo]

storm has fast triangular jump

[PROFESSORLESTER]

just play GGXX all. Its so balanced. And deep

[megafighter]

you've lost it...how can people respect ur posts when u say storm isn't that good of a character and then place more value in having commando than storm...iono...

I agree with you, but it does not seem like such a crazy idea.

What is better? Sent/Cable/Capcom or Sentinel/Cable/Storm? Also, Commando appears more often than any character outside of the top 4 at tourneys (and probably more often than Cable at the big ones).

The point is that a character worths how much he adds to the team, and not how much he can do fighting alone.

Hypothetically, let's say that, instead of whatever, Roll B assist was an AHVB. Roll can suck as much as possible on point, but this feature alone would make her the most essential character in the game (and break MvC2 as well). Keeping proportions, it is teh same here. Commando is very good because his assist helps the team a lot, while his performance on point is almost irrelevant.


PS: As I said, I don't think Commando is better than storm. I just think he is really important.

[Dasrik]

harveyluv, if you want to play a money match in the future, we can do it. From what you've written I already know I will beat you. I'm not even addressing your ridiculous post :/

In any case, saying Storm wasn't top tier was hella premature, and if you read my post carefully, see where I acknowledge she's really good when your team is winning. I still maintain she is not as good as Sentinel or Magneto and she's probably tied with Cable. Your reaction makes it sound like I think she's shit tier now or something.

Commando is top tier. His worth as an assist FAR OUTWEIGHS his weaknesses on point. Why don't you idiots accept that this is a team game already and accept it?

[Ho0v-Man]

Storm is the best character in the game and always will be. Storm is the second best at EVERYTHING! She is the most well-rounded character in the game. Sure commando's assist makes up for his ability on point, but storm's ability on point makes up for her only average assist. This whole idea is just retarded. There will always be some people that argue that sentinel is better than Storm, but your the only person who will ever think that commando is.

[Ness da Silent]

Most people here quit playing MvC2 all together... and went to 3rd strike where a variety of characters have a chance to win, not 4 friggin characters.

[FMJaguar]

Commando is top tier. His worth as an assist FAR OUTWEIGHS his weaknesses on point. Why don't you idiots accept that this is a team game already and accept it?

I think capcom assist is great until you get to where people start playing really smart, at that point he seems to become more of a liability to use a whole character on him as opposed to other AAA's.

I think eventually you'll need an assist that has better followup options, cyke and psy provide that. The only exception IMO is vs sent or bh, since they can get right above you where the other AAA's can't reach, but i can live with that.

Most people here quit playing MvC2 all together... and went to 3rd strike where a variety of characters have a chance to win, not 4 friggin characters.

Yun+Chun+Ken = 3

[harveyluv]

harveyluv, if you want to play a money match in the future, we can do it. From what you've written I already know I will beat you. I'm not even addressing your ridiculous post :/

In any case, saying Storm wasn't top tier was hella premature, and if you read my post carefully, see where I acknowledge she's really good when your team is winning. I still maintain she is not as good as Sentinel or Magneto and she's probably tied with Cable. Your reaction makes it sound like I think she's shit tier now or something.

Commando is top tier. His worth as an assist FAR OUTWEIGHS his weaknesses on point. Why don't you idiots accept that this is a team game already and accept it?

No u fucking idiot Capcom isn't top tier, he is 2nd tier. However you are correct his worth as an assist does outweigh his weakness on point, thats why he's 2nd tier, and not shit tier. Storm however has a decent worth as an assist, for long range games, and she cancels out the majority of projectiles, such as strider's leopard's, psylocke's, dr. doom, and will often trade with HSF if u call her early enough Then she has the highest worth (most tie her with sent) as a point charachter, so serously shut up with the comparison with storm and capcom. It's becoming more and more blatant how much u suck at the vs. series but particularly mvc2.

You read correctly but for the record let me say one more time DASRIK SUCKS AT MVC2 AND I WOULD BE WILLING TO PLAY HIM IN MONEY MATCHES ANY FUCKING TIME. So now, do you live on east coast or west coast, when would u like to handle this shit, how much would u like to play for? I enterd ur challenge into babelfish, and it translated it to: "Would you like me to donate money to your marvel experience" So let me know when u wanna fork over the money dumbass and I'll be sure to accept the cash.

[Magnetro]

I play Dhalsim...
~Murakumo
and I love you for it :tup:

[AKA Soz]

No u fucking idiot Capcom isn't top tier, he is 2nd tier. However you are correct his worth as an assist does outweigh his weakness on point, thats why he's 2nd tier, and not shit tier. Storm however has a decent worth as an assist, for long range games, and she cancels out the majority of projectiles, such as strider's leopard's, psylocke's, dr. doom, and will often trade with HSF if u call her early enough Then she has the highest worth (most tie her with sent) as a point charachter, so serously shut up with the comparison with storm and capcom. It's becoming more and more blatant how much u suck at the vs. series but particularly mvc2.

You read correctly but for the record let me say one more time DASRIK SUCKS AT MVC2 AND I WOULD BE WILLING TO PLAY HIM IN MONEY MATCHES ANY FUCKING TIME. So now, do you live on east coast or west coast, when would u like to handle this shit, how much would u like to play for? I enterd ur challenge into babelfish, and it translated it to: "Would you like me to donate money to your marvel experience" So let me know when u wanna fork over the money dumbass and I'll be sure to accept the cash.

:D Dasucks < Harvey, esp. at comebacks. :D o_OWNED!

[Zerostance]

Storm is hands down the best character in the game, She IS better than sentinel. Most people simply SUCK with storm. Since 90% of the people who play the game can't play her to the fullest of her potential, we have all this confusion.

Thats basically a fact...

[G-Product]

I'll be frank, but MVC2 sucks. It has a broken and unbalanced tier system. No one ever takes out the time to leanr new things with new characters they're stuck on the so-called "god" tiers mmmkay!? So all the videos get very boring, its the same thing everytime. I used to love this game it was thereason I got DC but now I dont really like it at all.

[Magnifico]

have you ever actually watched videos of low tier chars? that shits boring as hell compared to top tier vids, most of the completely unused chars are simple and boring (thats why they arent used, they dont have enough options to compete). plus lots of them just arent very cool.

really, I'm SO glad chars like sonson and amingo arent super good, would you really rather see battles between a bunch of stupid monkeys and plants? or super mutants kicking the crap outta each other? its too bad some of the more interesting second-tier chars that are "almost good enough" couldnt be just a tad better tho

[Dasrik]

harveyluv, it depends. How much are you willing to lose? I live in Moreno Valley, CA which is way down south. I'm very rusty and my left arm is wrapped up in bandages, but I'm still willing to lay down money that my Watts (a team without Storm) > your MSP (aka the only reason scrubs play MvC2), but I'm not willing to travel very far or play in some random jackass's house.

Weak dogs bark the loudest.

[_MJ_#R]

does storm/Bh/capcom stand a chance?

[SuperLuu]

does storm/Bh/capcom stand a chance?
that team is good

[Magnetro]

have you ever actually watched videos of low tier chars? that shits boring as hell compared to top tier vids, most of the completely unused chars are simple and boring (thats why they arent used, they dont have enough options to compete). plus lots of them just arent very cool.

really, I'm SO glad chars like sonson and amingo arent super good, would you really rather see battles between a bunch of stupid monkeys and plants? or super mutants kicking the crap outta each other? its too bad some of the more interesting second-tier chars that are "almost good enough" couldnt be just a tad better tho
I'm bored of seeing super mutants beating each other up, I'd rather see Dhalsim omega red jug matches

[Nep2une]

harveyluv, it depends. How much are you willing to lose? I live in Moreno Valley, CA which is way down south. I'm very rusty and my left arm is wrapped up in bandages, but I'm still willing to lay down money that my Watts (a team without Storm) > your MSP (aka the only reason scrubs play MvC2), but I'm not willing to travel very far or play in some random jackass's house.

Weak dogs bark the loudest.


Harveyluv is from Palmdale..........shouldn't have much problems oganizing that. :encore:

[harveyluv]

hehe I don't really live in palmdale, but thats the closest city to me that anyone has ever heard of, I'm actually from lancaster, but soo, dan, magnetro, megaman, illan, mike z, and several others, see me up there at ffa all the time (not saying I'm friends with most of them peeps, they just see me up there is all). So u wanna come to ffa and bet like 50 bucks or 100 if ur down, btw I'm not using msp, I'm using MSTron, And u play me on ps2 and I can beat u with strider teams, sent teams, and what the fuck ever else u want me to rape u with. So enough talk set a date and give me ur fucking money........bitch. Btw I heard ur retarded

[RowJoe]

You play the PS2 version... :rofl:

Seriously, I own it and I regret buying it.

[Skyler]

have you ever actually watched videos of low tier chars? that shits boring as hell compared to top tier vids, most of the completely unused chars are simple and boring (thats why they arent used, they dont have enough options to compete). plus lots of them just arent very cool.

really, I'm SO glad chars like sonson and amingo arent super good, would you really rather see battles between a bunch of stupid monkeys and plants? or super mutants kicking the crap outta each other? its too bad some of the more interesting second-tier chars that are "almost good enough" couldnt be just a tad better tho

yea low tiers suck alright, but sometimes low tiers are pretty fun to play with, if you wanna stop playing with top tier characters. The big 4's match are also boring now. We know whats gonna happen like Magneto is going to get someone into a Rom combo or Cable is gonna hyper viper sentinel down. Thats why MVC2 is starting to get boring than SFA3. A3 atleast still have some good matchups. only certain MVC2 match's are worth watching now.

[Jake]

Instead of saying generic things like STORM'S THE BEST CHARACTER IN THE GAME and STORM CAN RUN FOR DAYS!!! etc.. it helps to actually provide reasoning to back your argument as to why someone is wrong. I'm not saying Dasrik is right or wrong but at least he gives reasons to back his argument. Saying a simple statement doesn't really accomplish anything, and saying it as a retort is pretty useless, it's like putting a vote in a poll thread someone makes, only you're putting the vote in a thread that ain't even a poll.

If a head start is needed I'll help out. You can start by explaining what storm can do when the opponent has the lead perhaps. This ain't directed at anyone in particular it's just in general. If I'm a neutral observer right now no one has yet to prove dasrik wrong at all...

[megafighter]

I don't think storm is better than sentinel.

First, Sentinel is a much better assist.

Most storm players use sentinel in the team for the DHC, so if the DHC is a fact in making storm good this is a merit for both Storm AND Sentinel (without sent there is no killing DHC). To compare Storm against Sentinel, I think it would be more valid to use storm without sentinel against Sentinel without Storm.

In this way, the more common Storm team becomes MSP, where magneto is usually the best character. Sentinel still leads team Scrub, is very important in team Row, and is the best for helping StriDoom.

Even together, most Santhrax players are now starting sentinel (correct me if I am wrong). People are trading the DHC for the opportunity of starting with a full Sentinel/Commando. This makes me think that Storm is losing the edge in a team that is practically made for her (Storm + best DHC + arguably 2 best assists in the game).

I do believe Storm is second in the game, but I can't see her as beating Sentinel for the first place.

[G-Product]

yea low tiers suck alright, but sometimes low tiers are pretty fun to play with, if you wanna stop playing with top tier characters. The big 4's match are also boring now. We know whats gonna happen like Magneto is going to get someone into a Rom combo or Cable is gonna hyper viper sentinel down. Thats why MVC2 is starting to get boring than SFA3. A3 atleast still have some good matchups. only certain MVC2 match's are worth watching now.


Exactly its boring, how many times are we gonna guess right or should I say know Cable is gonna whip out an Air Hyper Viper Beam, or Iorn Man will do an infinite, dull, old & boring MOVE ON!

[RowJoe]

As good as Sentinel is, I still prefer Storm as the backbone for a lot of my teams. Lighting attack has great priority, her normals are up there with Sentinel, Magneto, Cyclops, etc.. She can rush down pretty damn well, her projectile assist is alright, and she can fight anything and anyone: Strider/Doom, Mag/Psy, Cable/Commando, etc.. But alas, she needs that vital assist and I think what Dasrik said is that, if judged on her own attributes, Storm is actually not that great of a character. I don't know if I agree with that, but Sentinel is so prominent in MVC2 now...

Santhrax is meant to have Sentinel on point. Cable starts on Scrub sometimes to fight Sentinel.

Sentinel's match-ups have evolved into being closer in his favor, such as Sent vs. Cable.

Remember, MVC2 is a TEAM game...

[AKA Soz]

:P MVC2 may be a team game, but there is no I in Cable, meaning Cable = team.

I'll be damned if I ever stop playing Cable. Teams without Cable = :tdown: :tdown: :tdown:

[L1qu1d]

is it worth picking up mvc2? (cv2 player), and wat is better i want to learn clockwork or sd/magnus. also wat assists or w/e do you pick for clockwork?

[Ho0v-Man]

sentinel (ground)

Strider (variety, but it doesn't really matter)

Doom (AA)

http://shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59482

[Ken34]

Warning: If you’re attention span is that of a 3 year old and can’t do a lot of reading then be prepared....









Well another evo has pass and once again Justin wins . This Evo was Different However, For the 1st year ever, nothing new was discovered or abused, in other words nothing that’ll change the way the game is played , Now granted the game has been out for 4 years now But as results have shown and proven, the game’s Development has completely Stopped and Players have simply stopped looking or better yet, Stopped trying to find new strategies and innovations in the game Or worst of all become lazy and stick with what already works, For this reason is why I think the Gap between Justin and the rest of the Pack(us)has widened to a ridiculous margin, which I’ll address later. But for now I wanna address my opinions as to what went wrong and how we , The Mvc2 Community can make this game fun again.


1:Rankings: how a 56 character game turned into 30 into 20 into 11 then a 4 character game.

In my Opinion only 4 characters matter now(not necessarily the best), And they are:

Storm
Sentinel
Captain Commando
Psylocke


These Chars are what makes you change your mind and what you fear in the game. Storm and Sentinel doesn’t need a explanation. But here’s why I put psylocke and Capcom here.

3:Capcom-I don’t think he deserves a explanation But there will be critics so here we go. The reason why capcom is here is because he makes ANY character much better than before(even more so than Sent-y or Doom-B imo).Because he adds so much in power, .increased defense , Runaway Stopper, And with all of this there’s no wonder why 100% of all mvc2 players snap him in a 1st chance. He adds too much to a team, PLUS as a added bonus he can beat up the character that’s doing the snapping in most likely, Magneto, provided he survives the Guard break and manages to get distance(his effects with sentinel need no explanation...we’ve seen what’s good about them for over 3 years now :p ).

4:Psylocke-She’s here because everyone fears her.No other assist actually forces you to move backwards more so than her. Because more and likely if you see Psylocke, You’re likely to see her Pimp as well. This is why Mag/psy>>>all other mag teams. mag/sent-a requires you to fight and counter assist to be truly effective IMO, if your sent-a continues to get wiped out AND you can’t attack from your favorite attack angles and parameters and now you see how soo and Sanford Can beat Justin’s Team Row(Rowtron avoids this entirely by starting sentinel and Jmar Just makes ridiculous comebacks :lol:).In short psylocke gives people reason to run scared ,b