so which fighting game is least scrub-friendly?

[glass]

which game, on average, is it most difficult to win in if your opponent is clearly the better player?

[HuDaThaN]

I put down Marvel, since scrubs just get guardbroke and shot.

[XFocus]

yeah, in marvel, scrubs like to choose characters like:
Ryu, Guile, Juggy, Ken, Akuma, Wolverine, etc.

Basically, a SCRUB with a Shoto team has NO chance against someone even halfway decent with MSP, or Team Scrub or whatever, whereas in other games, the balance is a little better so the scrub stands more of a chance. Emphasis on a "little" better.

[Zazzarius]

other:

Virtua Fighter 4 . . . now that game is brutal to learn

[Kikosho]

Originally posted by Zazzarius
other:

Virtua Fighter 4 . . . now that game is brutal to learn
Brutally. Scrubs get owned harder than a titanium hammer in this game.

[Jedi W.]

GGXX hands down. Lots of shit going on coupled with one the single most omcplicated fighting engines of all time, coupled with very non standard characters makes the game crazy scrub-unfriendly.

VF4 is just hard to learn, but I think the training modes on the PS2 version help scrubs alot, and you can still mash and look decent. Still crazy hard to master.

--jedi\/\/.

[Ubersaurus]

Easily VF4. Scrubs die fast there.

[Virtua_Leon]

Vf, dedication pays off in vf though

[OhNoos]

Originally posted by Virtua_Leon
Vf, dedication pays off in vf though


This reminds me of one time when I was in tokyo, it was about 4 am and i was in Shabuya...or maybe shinjuku...

anyway, it was late and i was waiting for the trains to start running again so i was hitting the bars (they "close" at like 8 am there) and stopped in at an Arcade and played vf4 using jackie (last vf i played was vf3)... some like 50 year old bald japanese guy in a business suit comes in and plays that ninja guy and just beat the fuck outta me...

laughing the whole time too, which made it oh so much better...

[Adam Warlock]

Anyone that doesn't say VF has either not played it or is a scrub at VF and doesn't know it.

[Serpent]

I'd probably have to say HF. No gimmicks, no supers, no simple combos that you can get lucky with and win with. Its about positioning and solid strategy. That is what seperates good players from scrubs, not manual dexterity.

You can teach a scrub a combo or something strong and he'll go and learn it and have success with it. For instance, teach someone V-Akumas VCs and he'll win matches with a bit of practice but will still be a total scrub overall. GGXX is a gimmick based game, and you can teach someone the bite loop with Slayer and once they have it down they're really competitive. I find GGXX pretty simplistic and easy to play. Most good GGXX players consider SF harder to play and have based their fundamentals from an older game like ST. Same with all the rest of the games with the possible exception of VF4 and ST (since thats where you'd get the fundamentals, and VF4 I haven't played so I cant comment on).

I hear #r took out a lot of cheese and made the game more balanced. A friend of mine burned me a copy, I'll pick up the copy and my PS2 within a week or two (just got it modded) and mess around with it. I'll also probably start playing the game in 2 months competitively, so I'll know for sure how easy it is to be scrubby or not.

[Adam Warlock]

Originally posted by Serpent
I'd probably have to say HF. No gimmicks, no supers, no simple combos that you can get lucky with and win with. Its about positioning and solid strategy. That is what seperates good players from scrubs, not manual dexterity.


I disagree with that. If that were true, all the people who play Theory Fighter would be placing top at tournaments. You need both, strategy and execution.

[m121akuma]

VF. Seriously. Go buy VF Evo if you don't believe me.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by RandomNigga


I disagree with that. If that were true, all the people who play Theory Fighter would be placing top at tournaments. You need both, strategy and execution.

There was a thread about what the most important thing is in order to be good at fighting games, and I actually listed execution myself. I agree that both are important, but I actually think execution is more important. However, in the older games, like HF, spacing and knowledge of the game become intangible with execution, something that in the newer games isnt always true. In newer games you can flat out win by execution without actually having a solid strategy, ie, get 'lucky' and get that one hit to land the Bison CC, get lucky with a random VC or CC, Saks shoshosho, the one hit for Rom or whatnot in MvC2, the one mistake to land AHVBx3, etc. In the older games, this is impossible. I didn't mean to indicate that execution was not nessecary, or which is more important etc. in my original assertion though.

The strategy portion usually seperates scrubs from intermediate players. At the highest levels though, everyone already has top strategy so it becomes a question of execution. Since we're talking about scrubs though, I think their main lacking feature is usually the mental aspect of the game.

[Ducky]

VF hands down. The learning curve on that game is digustingly steep.

[Zigmover21]

I think Serpent's pretty much dead-on. Most games have something that's easy to win with. It's not like it'll beat good players, but it'll still take you far.

But the mental aspect is what will push you above the scrub level. At Evo, I played a few people downstairs in the arcade in XX who knew more technical stuff than me, while I just stuck with basic Potemkin strat. A lot of them were playing Eddie, too, and that's a free win for him against Pot. But I owned people for free, just because they didn't have shit for mind games. That's helped me a lot in GGXX, considering how I'm not all that good at the game in general.

I think people tend to exaggerate the complexities of the XX engine in general. At its core, it's very simple, and the subsystems are very easy to understand and apply on their own. But that's a big reason why I like the game, 'cause the moves and sub-systems are pretty reliable. I don't like having depth being forced on me, 'cause that tends to get messy and creates issues with reliability and whatnot. In XX, you just start simple, and work from there, and it's part of why I enjoy playing the game so much.

[Don Mack]

I dont see whats so complex about Guilty Gear. I beat several experienced dudes in a tourney in GG last year with Sol and i never even touch the game. I just did basic ground combos.

[Zakuta]

VF4:E/FT

Then i'd probably say #r.

Those are manly games. =)

[T-Kimura]

marvel, totally. scrubs like to pick ryu, and wolverine and shit lol

[glass]

could anyone who plays both GGXX/#r and VF4 competitively comment?

[Saotome Kaneda]

Originally posted by glass
could anyone who plays both GGXX/#r and VF4 competitively comment?


VF4:E/FT > #R > DARK FUCKING STALKERS >>>>>> *

[Miher]

I said MvC2 for the same reasons already posted...can't say for VF as I've never played it. After Marvel, I'd probably say GGXX, then Third Strike.

[Master Chibi]

Originally posted by Saotome Kaneda



VF4:E/FT > #R > DARK FUCKING STALKERS >>>>>> *

Amen.

:D

[Serpent]

I think Apoc died, or else he'd have come in here already espousing the greatness of HF. I guess I didn't do a good job on it since it only has 2 votes.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Originally posted by Serpent
I think Apoc died, or else he'd have come in here already espousing the greatness of HF. I guess I didn't do a good job on it since it only has 2 votes.

Serp, he's only one man. Give him some time.

[EWAShock]

VF and UMK3, if you have to ask, you won't understand the answers.

Matt

[MrQuotes]

VF4 owns your fucking mind

[HellMUT]

i put mvc2.. beacause its the only fighting game i play :O

[KaiSingrz]

The SF2 series can be semi scrub friendly because it's where we all started. If you have a solid foundation of the mechanics of how SF2 works, you can start out at least somewhat decent in HF or ST.

A2 as well because the Valle CC isn't really that hard to pull off for like 50% damage.

A3 took SF to a whole new engine. Scrubs can't pick that up in a day or two. Same for 3s

Marvel, scrubs just get freakin rocked. So let's not even go there. But then again, there is the Cable factor. Especially when you haveTeam scrub.

I'd rate CvS a little more scrub friendly than marvel mostly due to its turtle friendly engine.

[Banshee]

In both VF and MvC2, scrubs get killed really bad, and playing both, i was having a hard time picking one.

In the end though, if i decide to be a real ass in mvc2, there's nothing a scrub can do to get close (like, spiral sent capcom can rape a scrub player without getting close). In VF, since you're more or less always close, a lucky shot is more likely to connect.

Bottom line is, VF matches against scrubs are hella shorter and feel more brutal, but in Mvc2 you can shut them down until they cry. And a perfect in MvC2>>>perfect in VF.

[H_Magnus]

VF 4 Evo and FT for eeevery aspect that's been posted already. That game's one tough shit.

[Renegade]

It depends on what you define as "scrub"

Mall scrub or tourney scrub?

Mall scrub in MvC2 picks Jill Guile Akuma. Tourney scrub picks Cable Sent Commando.


I'd say marvel.


3D games by nature are more scrub friendly. You mash and stuff happens that's good. Only experts know the frame data nessesary to know what moves aren't safe, and even then, maximum damage isn't so high for punishment.

I mean, yeah, it's hard to pick up VF4 or tekken, and memorize the movelist and frame data, but that's what you HAVE to do to get above average. Below that, any scrub can win.

In marvel, you make a mistake and and reasonable player can kill your character.

[ToXY]

i say xmen vs sf, infinite combo and its all over :)

[RaginCloud]

mvc2....the cheapest fighting game ever made!!!!! scrubs love ironman and cable...but they just sit back and shot beams all day

[jae hoon]

VF 4 is by far the most unscrub friendly game. Nothing else really comes close.

mvc2....the cheapest fighting game ever made!!!!! scrubs love ironman and cable...but they just sit back and shot beams all day

Your kidding right? Even I can get past that.

[Silentness!]

Wtf this topic is old...

[ShinjiGohan]

I've played a bit of VF4 evo, so I'll say that.

Though to mention it. SFEX3, has its own levels. Example, no scrub is gonna be able to get out of a Pullum or Rosso rush down. Cause those actually require a true reversal, and normal scrubs just won't be able to handle it.

Though it brings to mind, that the scrub friendly aspect also depends on the damage settings. The higher the settings, more lucky a scrub will be if they manage to exploit an openning.

[kasuya]

Someone confirm with me that there are actually people voted for cvs2 as least scrub friendly... with people like that voting, it makes sense to live in a communist country. :lame:

[Bogard]

VF...Nuff said'!

[Hyperblade]

VF 4, and MVC2, for all of the reasons said.

[Liquid Twilight]

VF4, Vampire Saviour and KOF/Samurai Shodown/Garou

Vf4 because in that game even the sligthes mistake can cost u the figth.

Vampire Saviour because of the gameplay system such has EX and chain combos(it's weird since is more easy to do combos on games that use the chain system.)

SNK games since people in KOF will try to roll all day or they think they can do Haduken all the time. Samsho because the scrubs that will always trow a Hard slash get's owned and knowing ur atta king range of ur character and enemy. Garou because of the exact motions, 2 backgrounds and other different gameplay aspects.(Just defend,Breaking moves,UOH,T.O.P and etc.)

[bender mark2]

DOA!..

nah just joking.
I'd say VF4 FT or something

[DarkWolf]

well of the games i've played i'd say GGXX cuz of the fast pase fighting and if you just rush in and button mash you owned in a matter of second....yes i learned that the hard way...damned ss bros melee teaching me bad habbits lol thank god i'm past the scub stage xD

[dialupsucky]

its surpiseing how many votes GG got when its acctualy a very scrubby game in genral.

[kasuya]

:confused: shouldn't you do this survey with scrubs in the first place? Ask them which game they hate the most or something similar.

If you were to put Cvs2 and GGXX on the list of choices, why not include Tekken and Soul.C as well?

[Tripple]

Somebody mentioned it before, how scrubby are we talking, really really bad as in can't do fireballs consistently, or as comptent player who just isn't that good/dedicated... While it is true that that scrubs die easy in MvC2 if we knocked off the top 10% of players, how even would that middle group of pple be.

And its also true that scrubby ppl are more likely to play scrubby games like MvC2(no insult intended) because its easier for them to get into regardless of wether they loose or not, Most ppl here would know that in just about all games a good player will beat a crapper one nearly all the time.

[glass]

:confused: shouldn't you do this survey with scrubs in the first place? Ask them which game they hate the most or something similar.


no.. too.. easy.. must.. resist..

[Renegade]

Well, it all really depends.

Is scrub friendly the ease of putting quarters into a game and being able to beat average people in a game?

Or it is how hard scrubs get owned by experts?

Cuz I think we can agree that in every game, scrubs get owned hard by the best players. However, in certain games, people were very little strategy/skill can pick a certain character/groove/team and do fairly well w/o any mental/physcial complexity.

So, in reason, I'd say most games have "scrubby characters"

MvC2-Cable, Sent, Commando (beats anyone who doesn't pick top tier, and is semi decent)... You don't even really need AHVB. Jump back fierce and either drones or commando owns all low tier, and is even annoying for average players to get around.

GGXX- Faust. Brain dead stupid

Tekken- Eddy/Christie Scrubs. You have to play a good while before button mashing Eddy players become cake. Moves way too random, and random button presses are way too rewarding.

SC2-Kilik/Maxi. Maxi more than Kilik. See Tekken for reasons.

A3-Chun Li, Zangief. While Gief can be complex... Splash, Lariat, and Fierce/Forward own half the cast.

Sf2- Any character with stupid throw priority. I.E. Vega.

CvS2- blanka, sagat, vega. high priotity and little effort to turtle.

However, in each of these games, there are "scrub-blocks" either tactics that kill scrubs for free, or tactics one must learn that are hard.

MvC2-
Kills Scrubs: Magneto Rushdown, Traps, AHVB
Roadblocks: Air Dash Combos, Guard Cancel, Infinites, Killing BH w/o Cable.

GGXX-Kills Scrubs: Sol Dust Loop, Millia/Eddie
Roadblocks: RC Combos, etc.

Tekken-Kills Scrubs: Frame Data
Roadblocks:Just Frames

Soul Calibur: Kills Scrubs: Frame Data. GI
Roadblocks:JFs/Cancels/2G

SF2: Kills Scrubs: Reversal Timing/Combos
Roadblocks: Matchups/Counter Characters.

A3: Kills Scrubs: VCs
Roadblocks: Playing against VCs. Ukemi usage.

CvS2: Kills Scrubs: RC, Proper A/C combos
Roadblocks:Roll Cancels

[Gasaraki]

Anyone who thinks GGXX is so difficult that scrubs can't pick it up need to play again. It's not anywhere near as hard as starting out in VF4. I personally think 3S is like this, but I'm not used to the footsie/excessive poking style of fighters.

Also, why are people still talking about XX like it's more valid than #R?

[Andore]

Tekken- Eddy/Christie Scrubs. You have to play a good while before button mashing Eddy players become cake. Moves way too random, and random button presses are way too rewarding.


This guy is a dumbass. In the right hands Eddy Gordo never becomes cake. I should slap you for insulting the coolest fighter in fighting games. Anyone who disses eddy is prolly the ones who always say, "Stop leg sweeping me so I can set up my combos will ya!" Like a little bitch. Hell, I can take you on with Eddy and not use a single damn leg sweep. The fact that you typed that sentence tells me you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. If anyone in Tekken is masher, and Tekken is the least masher of any 3d game, then it's Hwoarang. And Virtue Fighter is way more masher. Look at some of the combos and moves in tekken. Look at how many times you have to pause, or while rising, or be in neutral, or look at all the directional pad input. In Virtua Fighter it's jsut p,p,p,k,k or k,k,p+k,k. Hell if that ain't masher I don't know what the fuck is!?

[RagnarokMage]

Whoa there Andore I understand your frustration with the renedage guy but VF being more masher than Tekken? You've got some fanboyism somewhere in your wording there. I would say all 3D fighters kinda come down to the same thing. You can get around ok by pressing a few buttons here and there but playing against someone who knows what they are doing will just own you. But its pretty much that way with all fighters I'd say. As far as least scrubby friendly game Im going to vote on VF for that.
I see people who think "Oh VF, just Punch Kick and Block cant be so hard with just 3 buttons" ...WRONG. Its the other way around. If you added anymore than 3 buttons to that damn game the complexity that Sega would probably implement is just crazy to think about. Anyone calling VF a masher simply hasnt played it or never tried to understand it. Once you can do a "triple throw escape evade" come back and talk to me.

[T-Kimura]

mvc2, you'll get shot and rushed if you're a scrub and mashing buttons wont help you.

[RagnarokMage]

In Virtua Fighter it's jsut p,p,p,k,k or k,k,p+k,k. Hell if that ain't masher I don't know what the fuck is!?

By the way , for all the people who know , that statement alone made you look incredibly stupid.

[Saotome Kaneda]

This guy is a dumbass. In the right hands Eddy Gordo never becomes cake. I should slap you for insulting the coolest fighter in fighting games. Anyone who disses eddy is prolly the ones who always say, "Stop leg sweeping me so I can set up my combos will ya!" Like a little bitch. Hell, I can take you on with Eddy and not use a single damn leg sweep. The fact that you typed that sentence tells me you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. If anyone in Tekken is masher, and Tekken is the least masher of any 3d game, then it's Hwoarang. And Virtue Fighter is way more masher. Look at some of the combos and moves in tekken. Look at how many times you have to pause, or while rising, or be in neutral, or look at all the directional pad input. In Virtua Fighter it's jsut p,p,p,k,k or k,k,p+k,k. Hell if that ain't masher I don't know what the fuck is!?
Remove all the WS and neutral moves that EVERY char shares(up till T5, and there's still some lingering there), they're crap. How many moves can actually be delayed? Out of those, how many are useful?

Now, look at say...Akira's movelist. Damn near every move he does that isn't a jab has a directional input. Delayable moves that have purposes. The STUN PALM OF DOOM™. I'd love to see that get mashed like King multithrows. FEINTS. GUARD BREAKS. The list goes on.

k,k,p+k,k? What fucking game are you playing? At least find something that's really in the game to complain about...

And to this day I've never seen a single Eddy/Christie player that didn't end up in RLX at LEAST once a round. If you're not using their multitude of lows to your advantage, you're even more foolish than I originally thought.

[Robyrt]

Depends what kind of scrub you're talking about. For people who don't even play these games, MvC2 wins because they'll just pick stupid characters and accidentally triple super. For people who learn just a couple tactics, VF wins because there are so many defensive options that a handful of "abusable tactics" is actually LESS effective than button-mashing.

However, I'd like to know why 3S has so many votes on here and not ONE person defending it as less scrub-friendly than either of these games. What makes Chun's random high-priority poking into super so much more difficult to learn than jump back fierce with Cable?

[Renegade]

Damn andore... Didn't mean to insult you... but you've never seen an eddy/christie person mash on the kick buttons repeatedly and beat someone who at least knew their characters moves? I have. That's scrubby as shit.
Hwoarang is scrub friendly... but mashing on the kicks with him gives you highs 90% of the time. That's easy to beat if someone knows how to block and phoenix smasher.
You dissing VF is total garbage, btw. I stayed away from that game cuz I don't know anything about it really, but I remember trying to learn Pai, and it being really long and annoying.

So chill out, and try to think about what I was trying to say, and don't act like I personally insulted you or your mother. Hell, I play Chun Li in A3 and I said she was scrub friendly. I should beat my own ass!

[MBurningStar]

MVC2 - Because scrubs get slaughtered in the first 5 seconds of a match.

[Spralwers]

Dragonball Z Budokai 2 and 3, because newbs/scrubs will most likely get PERFECT'D by experts and masters. Especially in Budokai 3.
MVC2 is also pretty low scrub friendly, as well as the games with the fighting engines like it. Gundam Wing Endless Duel isn't very scrub friendly.

[Gasaraki]

However, I'd like to know why 3S has so many votes on here and not ONE person defending it as less scrub-friendly than either of these games. What makes Chun's random high-priority poking into super so much more difficult to learn than jump back fierce with Cable?
Sure it's that way with Chun, but with other characters it gets alot harder. I mean it's extremely obvious when you see newb Yun, Makoto, Urien, Yang, Alex, etc.

[Preppy]

Being mostly a scrub myself (my definition: having fun is more important to me than winning), I'd have to say CvS2 is the least mid-level scrub-friendly. Every other game you can have basic moves and patterns and get by, but in CvS2 you'll just get beaten up by A or P or so forth and you'll like it, you nancy. 3S is also pretty brutal for scrubs, though.
VF and UMK3, if you have to ask, you won't understand the answers.UMK3 autoselects what button you MEANT to press if you jam on the buttons. Try it with Cyrax - mash the top two buttons (I don't even remember what those are) and you'll see at least 4 hits of his combo come out. High-level UMK3 beats midlevel pretty soundly, but I'll forever look upon that "autoselect" as one of the randomest gameplay decisions ever. :confused:

[Deathsythe]

VF4/evo without a doubt. I would say GGX is kind of hard for a scrub to just pick up. Not too hard but it will at least push the lazy ones away lol. SCII is a little too scrub friendly, IMO.

[Andore]

Once you can do a "triple throw escape evade" come back and talk to me.

Just a few questions here....

1. What jackass is going to try and throw you again after they failed already? Or even worse, after they've failed twice?

2. What jackass is going to sit there and watch/let somebody try and throw them three times without doing something? If someone fails to throw me then I'm going to leg sweep them or sidestep or something. I'm certainly not going to sit there and say, "Okay,...1....2...3..Yeah! Bonus!"

This is more garbage that Namco decided was not necessary so they left this out.

On a side note, what on earth is with Jeffrey. One of his victory quotes is, "You'll.......never.........wim...with that.........................................stren gth!!!!"

[Dipstick]

Just a few questions here....

1. What jackass is going to try and throw you again after they failed already? Or even worse, after they've failed twice?

2. What jackass is going to sit there and watch/let somebody try and throw them three times without doing something? If someone fails to throw me then I'm going to leg sweep them or sidestep or something. I'm certainly not going to sit there and say, "Okay,...1....2...3..Yeah! Bonus!"

You do not even know what the hell he is talking about. A triple throw escape in VF is inputting three different throw escapes for one throw attempt, not escaping a throw three times in a row. Being able to do multiple throw escapes (without leaving yourself going for a whiffed throw if he doesn't throw you) is important, since characters have between three and six differnet possible escape commands. The simple "guess between two (SC) or three (Tekken) options" that Namco games use simply would not work in VF, expecially since a lot of high-damage potentinal moves lead to guaranteed throw attempts for your opponent if they block them.

( Don't look at me -- I can consistently do evade-double throw escape-guard, but not the triple variant... I suck. :sad: )

-Dippy

[polarity]

Just a few questions here....

1. What jackass is going to try and throw you again after they failed already? Or even worse, after they've failed twice?

2. What jackass is going to sit there and watch/let somebody try and throw them three times without doing something? If someone fails to throw me then I'm going to leg sweep them or sidestep or something. I'm certainly not going to sit there and say, "Okay,...1....2...3..Yeah! Bonus!"

This is more garbage that Namco decided was not necessary so they left this out.

On a side note, what on earth is with Jeffrey. One of his victory quotes is, "You'll.......never.........wim...with that.........................................stren gth!!!!"


HAHAHAHA oh god you are a fucking idiot. You should really make sure you AT LEAST are familiar with the terminology of the game before you start spewing unadulterated shit. A triple throw escape evade doesn't mean escaping three consecutive throws, it means inputting the commands to evade three throws that your opponent could potentially use, while also inputting the evade command in order to avoid a potential attack. You are stupid.

edit: what the guy above me said

[Saotome Kaneda]

Just a few questions here....

1. What jackass is going to try and throw you again after they failed already? Or even worse, after they've failed twice?

2. What jackass is going to sit there and watch/let somebody try and throw them three times without doing something? If someone fails to throw me then I'm going to leg sweep them or sidestep or something. I'm certainly not going to sit there and say, "Okay,...1....2...3..Yeah! Bonus!"

This is more garbage that Namco decided was not necessary so they left this out.

On a side note, what on earth is with Jeffrey. One of his victory quotes is, "You'll.......never.........wim...with that.........................................stren gth!!!!"
^^
Proof that you didn't even TOUCH the awesome training mode, because that is NOT what Throw Escape Evade is. The "Almighty Namco" didn't leave it out, they never programmed it in or thought of it in the first place. That's why Sidestepping is so oddly strong in their games, it doesn't have a natural counter. No, tracking doesn't count.

Now, once again, I suggest you keep your uninformed mouth shut.

EDIT: Damn, I can't even beast on this fool without niggas gettin' the way. =p

[kunonabi]

im gonna go with vf4 evo and VS. VF4 obviously and savior since the game is far too fast for them to keep up. aulbath bubbletrap, any character with a good IAD, anakaris high-low, the list goes on. Even if the scrub manages to get on the offensive you got GC's and push blocks(which they wont know how to do) to proceed to rape them all over.

[AKA]

VF wins, hands down.

Also, Guilty Gear is a great game, but there's so much unpredictability in it that anyone who can execute on a basic level (Sol's dust loop, Johnny combos, I could go on with easier shit) can punish you for a mistake, or capitalize off of getting lucky. Patience is, above all else, needed to play high-level, because no one wants to get hit once and get killed. Not all that different from SF at top play, it's just easier to execute IMO.

P.S.

Clayton, stop tearing.

[epsilon_]

I say Marvel. I would say Vf, but I know NOTHING about it, and I've never played a good VF player. Marvel will make scrubs quit though. I'd say CvS is pretty tough too if someone doesn't know how to get around RC. A3 is tough too. Alot of people say 3s is hard, but I don't think it is.

[strider86]

i say cvs 2, despite the low fierces and such. that game has it's learning curves. never really got into the vf series past the second one so i wouldnt know.

[platinum_pinoy]

It's strange. VF4/Evo/FT is considered the least scrubbiest game, yet only a handful of people play it in the States. It's really sad to see that this game didn't pick up a strong fanbase in America because it really is one hell of a great game to learn, play, and master.

And for those who think its a masher, please try it again, but with more effort this time around. PPP, PP+K or whatever you think is scrubby will get your ass handed to you in less than a VF second.

[AssassiNate]

Definitely VF4:Evo. IT makes you its bitch when you first start learning.

[Vildiil]

VF:evo definitly, GGXX isnt hard to pick up at all, just from my personal experience and opinion.

[Andore]

Ahh I see you all ran off and consulted an evo champ. Well, again, three different inputs to perform one throw escape is redundant and unecessary. Unless all three look different when they are executed. Even then that's still unecessary too. Too much trash you don't need in that game.
I think it's funny though how all these people here kiss up to VF4 but none of you all play it. You all play melty blood and MVC2. In MVC2 you can shoot off a fireball that takes up half the screen just by doing two quarter circles and a kick button. And the fireball is so big it's bound to hit something.
But my question is, if no one is playing this game is it really as good as you all make it out to be.
VF4 is too rigid and too sticky for me. It's like a 2d game in 3d clothing. Tekken is more fluid and much swifter. Tekken has better characters with King, Bryan, Eddy, Hwoarang, Ling, Steve. The mishima's are dark, "neo genesis evangelion" type anime characters. The fighting styles in Tekken look more distinct in their execution with the exception of the clones. In VF even their Shao Lin Monk seems to have a similar fighting style to their wrestler.
And believe this or not but I was able to abuse a lot in Virtua Fighter. Now granted this is against the comp, but it's the training mode so I guess the people I'm fighting against are clones of real people. But I was able to abuse some easy shit. I could win matches doing just 2 or 3 movesets over and over again and I got real far too with like a 68% win rate which i guess isn't bad since I was just a beginner. But as someone pointed out, Sidestepping seems a bigger factor in Tekken. VF is so rigid people rarely sidestep but rather just squat and block.
But you all can defend it all you want. On the boards you'll defend virtua fighter with your life because the community sees you. In real life you play melty blood and mvc2.

[Gasaraki]

You moron, there's different throw escapes because one throw escape won't work with every throw. Use your fucking brain asshole

[Spanky]

Andore: I think you assume that everyone looks at games like you do; you look at the surface, yet never dig beyond the scenery and study the systems and fundamentals that go into it.

[Andore]

You moron, there's different throw escapes because one throw escape won't work with every throw. Just don't be an asshole like me!

Again a waste of fucking time. Why not have one set of buttons to push to break a throw, period. Or like say, if king has you in one of his throws that involves multiple moves then you have to try and hit the right button at the right time. That should be plenty.

Besides, I think Tekken has this as well. There's an input to push of with your feet if you've been tackled to the ground and there's an input to break a throw when you're standing up too.

[cygnus]

I think Andore is just a gimmick...no one can be this dense.

Anyway, it's VF4 series with MvC2 an extremely close 2nd.

Andore: there is a set of buttons to break throws in VF: P and G. But you have to break throws based in their input (b,d/b,d,d/f,f, and neutral). Some characters have throws that end in all the possible directions, some just have a few.

So let's say I'm playing a Wolf, and I just got something blocked that puts me at -6. So I have to defend. One thing you can do is evade (which will allow you to avoid/punish linear attacks), and during the evade, break his most powerful throws. So I input: u(evade),f+P+G,b+P+G,d/f+P+G(Wolf's 3 most powerful throws). This will aviod linear attacks and those throws. But let's say the other guy knows I'm going to evade-throw escape. He can do a less powerful throw (in this case P+G, not very powerful), or he can delay a big attack. If he delays his shoulder launcher (b,f+P+K), my evade will fail (I'll get the slow one), and I'll get hit before I can recover. If I think he will delay a launcher, I can evade, and cancel it with a crouch dash if it fails. That way if he attacks, I'll evade it, and if he delays, I can cancel my evade halfway and block his delayed launcher. But if he throws, I'm screwed. Or I can just do a big launcher of my own, which will kill his throw and delayed launcher, but I'll lose 1/2 my lifebar if he decides to attack immediately.

I could go on, but you get the point (or not).

[Saotome Kaneda]

Again a waste of fucking time. Why not have one set of buttons to push to break a throw, period. Or like say, if king has you in one of his throws that involves multiple moves then you have to try and hit the right button at the right time. That should be plenty.

Besides, I think Tekken has this as well. There's an input to push of with your feet if you've been tackled to the ground and there's an input to break a throw when you're standing up too.
Tekken throw breaks has always consisted of 2~1~1+2(except T1/2, which were the corresponding command), and the window to break was stupid large(the blatantly telegraphed animation plus old school blocky limbs helped). The only exceptions are maybe 2-3 throws PER GAME(King's Figure Four comes to mind repeatedly, Kuni's Moonsault, and Jack Series' UF+1+2 -> d,df+2 throws). In VF, you have a lot more to worry about than those simple escapes(i.e.: you're not mashing in reaction). And the fact that any multipart can be successfully mashed(and that universally, 2 is the break for their more damaging chain), leads to throws being relatively useless, and in the case of multis, quite worthless.

[unsmart]

Even though VF4 is probably least scrub-friendly, I'd say that in the US MvC2 has snuffed out the most scrub existences in the history of fighting games. I say this because there have been, and still are, an awful lot of casual gamers who think they have the game figured out because they can do FPx3 xx qcf+P with Cable, do a launch ^ 1234 FP aerial rave with Wolverine or Spidey, or press two buttons to perform a super which fills the screen with bullshit. But, oh my, the shock following the inevitable beasting at the hands of a skilled opponent is enough to cause any scrub to drop the game like a hot potato, once they realize the game isn't as easy to learn as they once believed. Adding in the tremendously steep slippery slope with the above fact makes this game one gigantic scrub graveyard.

[bakablitz]

in theory, vf4 should own the most scrubs. But I think in reality mvc2 takes out the bigger chunk out of the scrub population.

[Throwmasta]

Greetings all,

For someone to say mashing ppp,k,k etc. in VF will actually win you matches is quite laughable (simple solutions such as low p, and evading will trounce any scrub who thinks he can mash away). Although this strategy may work for a little while against a newb; especially if the masher is using a character like Pai, and the newb is trying to learn a character like Wolf, or Shun Di. As is true with most fighters, some characters in VF are significantly harder to learn than others, but unlike most other fighters; everything pretty much balances out in VF at the same skill levels. It just may take the Akira/Wolf/Shun/Aoi player a little longer to reach that level than say, a Pai/Lau/Sarah, who seem to be relatively more straight forward in the early learning stages of VF play.

Anyway, it's nice to see VF4 is recognized and gets props here. Unfortunately the VF community is very small here in the states and VFDC is just one big pissing contest as of late. Many people are fully aware of the game's "obsurd" depth, and won't touch it due to the time investment. This is unfortunate, but sadly... understandable. Other than a lack of competition, practicing for hours on end in training mode (which can sometimes feel more like a chore than having fun) gets old real quick. But it's worth the payoff, if you're lucky enough to have local comp., or if you're freed up enough to do a lot of traveling. The Reason why I believe VF is worth learning is the rewarding feeling and the satisfaction that comes with winning matches against good comp. You have to really work hard (esp. with characters like Jeff, Aoi, Wolf, and Akira) to win in vs. comp. That's when all the time, hard work and dedication pays off.

Unfortunately, VF is not a pick up and play fighter like some of the others. But when you begin to understand what moves work well together, develop flow charts, Yomi, Oki, etc., you gradually become hooked (if your interest warrants you to make it this far). Every single move in VF has a purpose (even the ones that seem useless and very risky). Would I say it is the most Scrub unfriendly game there is, sure. It has a small following in the states for a reason; and certainly not because it's a bad game...

[Throwmasta]

Btw, Saotome Kaneda. Awesome Avatar!!!!

[shinobidj]

Or like say, if king has you in one of his throws that involves multiple moves then you have to try and hit the right button at the right time. That should be plenty.

no you dont. you can just mash on all the buttons to break out of the next move in the multi. you can also just mash all 4 buttons to get death cradle.

[Saotome Kaneda]

no you dont. you can just mash on all the buttons to break out of the next move in the multi. you can also just mash all 4 buttons to get death cradle.
Peeps have successfully mashed out his new multipart in T5. It's sad.

[bellreisa]

But you all can defend it all you want. On the boards you'll defend virtua fighter with your life because the community sees you. In real life you play melty blood and mvc2.

Shut the fuck up, you prepubescent chunk of rancid sewer grease. No one cares what your opinion is. You've demonstrated yourself to be a larger idiot with each post you make, and while the trolling is amusing at first you really need to stop talking about things you obviously know nothing about, like MBR and VF4.

[Obot64.com]

cve takes skill... nuf said.

[Crayz Penguin]

i put down mvc2 since ive near perfected scrubs too many times to count, but i change my answer to naruto:narutimate hero 2. that game's learning curve is fuckin steep! when i started playing the game i got owned so bad it wasnt funny, but after i picked up some things (didnt take too long) it became a totaly different game.

[Yamizaki]

Which game is least scrub friendly??

Here's the best and shortest answer; whichever game the scrubs complain about the most!!