Deepest/most balanced MK game?

[Dangerous J]

Not being a hardcore MK player, everyone in the world sings MK2 's praises , but some like EWAshock(sp?) argue vehemently for UMK3.
Anyone who is high-level player which is overall best of the MK series, and what are the main "broken" flaws that keep it from being seen on the same level as the classic Sf games.

Thanks

[Difoj]

I've heard Jax in MKII is the best in that game, with only Mileena being able to stay away from his HK and ground punch zone style, due to the air sai's. I myself felt UMK3 was the best.

Human Smoke is said to be the best in UMK3

[EWAShock]

Hands down it's UMK3. If you look at most games in general, the top tier consists of about 15% of the characters of the game, whith a stretch of down to 10%, and at the most 25%, while UMK3 has roughly 33% of the cast in it's top tier, who is usable in the top tier high level environment, where all the characters will have some degree of success against eachother.

Kabal is defintely top tier, but Human Smoke can be unrealistically deadly, and I think Human Smoke can beat out more of the top tier than Kabal on average/more effectively, however Kabal can beat out Human Smoke's safety tactics vs other characters easily, making him better than Human Smoke, so that alone makes him the better choice if it comes down to Kabal vs H Smoke.

People saying MK2 is the best MK game is misguided.

Matt

[Hokage Izlude]

I would have to say Mortal Kombat Deadily Alliance, every character can kickass in the right hands.

I also gotta agree on UMK3. Alot of people say he is low tier, but Stryker is my best character! He is badass in my hands lol.

I think pretty much, every MK game has been pretty well balanced, with the exception of the boss characters like Motaro, Shao Kahn, etc, they are just beasts ^^

I cant wait for MK Deception, I've awaited Ermac's return, and this time, he aint just no palette swap!

[Juicy G]

it depends on your style and preference...if you like Defense then mk2 is for you.Offense is for UMK3 players...like that scrub lex

[OhNoos]

Deepest, Most fun, best Mortal Kombat for me... Mk2

Personally I don't like MK3 and aboves KI Rip-off combo system, I think its kind of lame, but that’s me some people seem to dig it.

Most "balanced" MK1; everyone is equal in suck in mk1... Balanced doesn’t automatically mean good.

[Crayfish]

Yeah I love MK2, but again very different games, room for both in your collection I'm sure. Kind of like ST compared to Alpha 3.
Hope there is some support for MK2 (match vids posted up etc..) once the game is released soon online, like the excellent job addictz at darktemplarz do for UMK3.
There is room for multiple SF's so there must be room for 2 MK's, I'm sure one's popularity can only help the other, they are the same series afterall.
Plus this is another game that the west totaly dominate in over Japan, so if Americans want more victories, they should start considering including MK2/UMK3 in tourneys, ha!
BTW, the best MK2 player in the world (susposedly) is an SRK member, Jason Wilson aka DreamTR.

[Singe]

I like the SNES version of Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3. Granted, the graphics suck and the difficulty is pretty lousy, but I find it fun.

I like using the unlimited run and fast uppercut recovery cheats. Using Smoke with these cheats activated makes him the number one cheapest character in the game. While other fighters like Scorpion can only use their freeze, spear, etc. once in the uppercut combo, Smoke can consistently use his. This makes for some crazy never ending combos!

[Krimzon Khaoz]

I was always lead to believe that Human Smoke is the Same as Scorpion yet scorp is left out of the talks. Why is that? Forgive the noob

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

Yeah UMK3 is the deepest overall....with MK4 in close 2nd...

Kabal is defintely top tier, but Human Smoke can be unrealistically deadly, and I think Human Smoke can beat out more of the top tier than Kabal on average/more effectively, however Kabal can beat out Human Smoke's safety tactics vs other characters easily, making him better than Human Smoke, so that alone makes him the better choice if it comes down to Kabal vs H Smoke.

No offense Matt but thats one of the most "scrubby" thing I have ever read! EVERY UMK3 high level player knows that H. Smoke is hands down the best char in UMK3 followed by Nightwolf in a close 2nd place....please post a rundown of the thecnics a high level kabal player will have to use to beat a high level H.Smoke player (other than the smoke player is playing for friendship/babality both rounds....you know...without blocking!)

Kabal suffers A LOT from the pressure chars like Nightwolf, because he`s unable to counteratack at close distnce and his spin dash is TOO predictable to use it in ither way than when the opponent tries to cross up you.... to that we have to add that Kabal barely does 40% with a well landed kombo... and he has limited possibilities to do that! H.Smoke in the other hand, has at every moment a 40%+ damage combo....

I will post later and I hope that this thread doesnt go shitty with the "Flame MK Boys"....

By the way...before anyone post anyhing...somebody PLEASE define what is the true meaning of the phrase "High UMK3 level gameplay)...I sure do have a definition of it but I dont know if anyone does....

[shadowcharlie]

for the people that play umk3 what exactly are the rankings anyhow i sadly i belive like most never seen the game outisde of a small player base so im curious.

[Ken34]

UMK3 is not the deepest balanced game, Smoke ans nightwolf are too fucking sick in that game, MK@ is VERY good, but it depends on a player's playing style in the end...
I hope no one EVER says MK trilogy, lol, cause Noob saibot was too sick..

[EWAShock]

Hanzo you're wrong.

Countering Nightwolf with sweeps and spinning him when he is just near enough to combo is simple enough to do as Kabal. Nightwolf is very deadly, but Kabal is still the best because of the spin's super brokenness. The world of MK in South America seems very different, you guys play randper kombat tournys, disable throws, etc. That's not real UMK3. And if you are playing people who randomly dash with Kabal you're not playing people who are very good at the game. You spin someone on cross ups, and usually when they jump depending on if they attack immediately or not, and from close range when you see then throw out an attack, between sweeps, etc, but not when they are standing on the ground and able to block. If you're running in with Nighwolf and blocking to attemp to stop a counter spin because it's predictable, the Kabal player isn't going to spin, he's going to start run jabbing and try to get you to move, then spin you. I'm not saying it's impossible to beat Kabal with Nightwolf, but you have to look at the grand scheme of things. Maybe you're one of the best in South America, but also maybe no one is truly to a competitive level. I'd like to play you guys, but it doesn't seem possible at this point.

Smoke has 50% + not 40%+ at any given moment, but it requires more effort to get that because Smoke's containment is not as reliable as the spin, and off a spin you can get an easy 42% on anyone, and for any punisher situation 49%. In the corner Kabal can get about 70% on anyone, Human Smoke can get a reasonably easy 65% in the corner, Nightwolf is limited in the corner, but his pressure is greater. Nightwolf can 3 hit kick combo infinite Sheeva, the Robots, Kano, and Kabal (but even that doesn't put him over in the long run) Nightwolf has a reasonably easy 54% mid screen combo off a jump punch, in the same token, Kabal can relaunch infinite Nightwolf with relative ease anywhere as well, one relaunch to jump kick air fireball puts Kabal right up there with Nightwolf in terms of midscreen damage. The only reason I bring this up is because I've seen you guys talk about how you never mess up the hard combos, so that means things like relaunch infinites must be a big factor when you guys play.

Overall, damage wise Human Smoke edges out on average over Nightwolf by about 10%, and Nightwolf over Kabal by another 10%, however the mere threat of the spin any time you leave the ground sets up easy big damage combos, so if you're going to play against Kabal effectively you cannot leave the ground, and if you're playing against a real UMK3 player, you're going to easily be able to get Nightwolf big combos.

Just as you say the spin is predictable, so is the shoulder tackle, and a good player will scout the tackle after the first attempt and blocked combo, you can then spin Nightwolf before he recovers and jump punch to combo any time Nightwolf does a tackle, it's just not safe enough. Generally people do not do more than 2 or 3 tackles when someone is blocking, then they go for a combo which breaks the lock down because they expect the rush down to force the person to try and get out of it, but that's stupid because aggressive players will 99% of the time go for a combo eventually and quickly. If you keep tackling it is possible to release block, not be hit and counter Nightwolf. Remembers, long range sweeps own shoulder tackle mad Nightwolf players, and those who don't abuse the tackle in every possible situation without using it stupidly do not beat Kabal. The only option against Kabal is take away the spin, and if you are that cautious you aren't being nearly aggressive enough to beat him. I'm just trying to show you the logic behind what tier means, and not your personal experiences against what might be not as good competition as what you should be against.

Maybe I'll try a Brazil server sometime if you want, I'll even play in the huge lag, but I just want to see exactly how you guys play because a lot of what you say just seems like it could easily be from playing people who do not bring out your full potential. I often hate playing people online because I don't really completely like winning say 62-0.

Matt

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

Lets split this up:


Countering Nightwolf with sweeps and spinning him when he is just near enough to combo is simple enough to do as Kabal. Nightwolf is very deadly, but Kabal is still the best because of the spin's super brokenness. The world of MK in South America seems very different, you guys play randper kombat tournys, disable throws, etc. That's not real UMK3. And if you are playing people who randomly dash with Kabal you're not playing people who are very good at the game. You spin someone on cross ups, and usually when they jump depending on if they attack immediately or not, and from close range when you see then throw out an attack, between sweeps, etc, but not when they are standing on the ground and able to block. If you're running in with Nighwolf and blocking to attemp to stop a counter spin because it's predictable, the Kabal player isn't going to spin, he's going to start run jabbing and try to get you to move, then spin you. I'm not saying it's impossible to beat Kabal with Nightwolf, but you have to look at the grand scheme of things. Maybe you're one of the best in South America, but also maybe no one is truly to a competitive level. I'd like to play you guys, but it doesn't seem possible at this point.

Well about countering Kabal with sweeps is a little insane...NO ONE can sweep Nightwolf other than Sonya & Jax here in Vzla. A Shadow Shoulder is a sure counter to this move. And I will keep saying it : Kabal=Predictable. I`m the only Kabal player here and I have a very though time triying to defeat any Nightwolf in close quarters. In fact, here Kabal is better used as a runaway char. if you are not playing any of the teleporting ninjas. Refering at how we play here...the level of gameplay showed at the vids in the US tourneys is very deplorable...sorry. I dont want to start a flame war here, but everybody here just laughed so loud when they saw the matches... how can someone miss the Hat Spin in the corner infinite with Kung Lao as Lex did on the Lexhibition? Soon ninja grinder will receive a tape with our matches so maybe he will do us the favor to encode them and put them online (I was about to ask you if you guys at darktemplarz.com are interested on hosting them). No, we dont play randper in Venezuela, just without throws because they are the easiest way to do damage and they ruin completely the beautiful close quarters fights that UMK3 has to offer (A throw beats a combo in range?! Thats Scrubby!) Sure I will like to play with you guys, it would be a very good cahnce to clear certain things about the high level of gameplay of UMK3.

Smoke has 50% + not 40%+ at any given moment, but it requires more effort to get that because Smoke's containment is not as reliable as the spin, and off a spin you can get an easy 42% on anyone, and for any punisher situation 49%. In the corner Kabal can get about 70% on anyone, Human Smoke can get a reasonably easy 65% in the corner, Nightwolf is limited in the corner, but his pressure is greater. Nightwolf can 3 hit kick combo infinite Sheeva, the Robots, Kano, and Kabal (but even that doesn't put him over in the long run) Nightwolf has a reasonably easy 54% mid screen combo off a jump punch, in the same token, Kabal can relaunch infinite Nightwolf with relative ease anywhere as well, one relaunch to jump kick air fireball puts Kabal right up there with Nightwolf in terms of midscreen damage. The only reason I bring this up is because I've seen you guys talk about how you never mess up the hard combos, so that means things like relaunch infinites must be a big factor when you guys play.

I agree with all of this...BTW you have to see the combos we do in actual matches! :D

Overall, damage wise Human Smoke edges out on average over Nightwolf by about 10%, and Nightwolf over Kabal by another 10%, however the mere threat of the spin any time you leave the ground sets up easy big damage combos, so if you're going to play against Kabal effectively you cannot leave the ground, and if you're playing against a real UMK3 player, you're going to easily be able to get Nightwolf big combos.

Agree.

Just as you say the spin is predictable, so is the shoulder tackle, and a good player will scout the tackle after the first attempt and blocked combo, you can then spin Nightwolf before he recovers and jump punch to combo any time Nightwolf does a tackle, it's just not safe enough. Generally people do not do more than 2 or 3 tackles when someone is blocking, then they go for a combo which breaks the lock down because they expect the rush down to force the person to try and get out of it, but that's stupid because aggressive players will 99% of the time go for a combo eventually and quickly. If you keep tackling it is possible to release block, not be hit and counter Nightwolf. Remembers, long range sweeps own shoulder tackle mad Nightwolf players, and those who don't abuse the tackle in every possible situation without using it stupidly do not beat Kabal. The only option against Kabal is take away the spin, and if you are that cautious you aren't being nearly aggressive enough to beat him. I'm just trying to show you the logic behind what tier means, and not your personal experiences against what might be not as good competition as what you should be against.

As i said you have to see the matches to judge by yourself the level of competition here, but hey! I can assure you Matt, is HIGH! Im not BS about it. I`ll never try to put in a bad position the actual MK comunity by BS.

Maybe I'll try a Brazil server sometime if you want, I'll even play in the huge lag, but I just want to see exactly how you guys play because a lot of what you say just seems like it could easily be from playing people who do not bring out your full potential. I often hate playing people online because I don't really completely like winning say 62-0.

I dont like to play over the web cause the same as you :Lag. It sucks to lose agaist someone who sucks then he tell to his little friends that he is UMK3 god and stuff like that like I have seen over previous UMK3 discussions threads. Refering to the above...you have to see the matches...to say the least...here is a guy we call "Litlle Daigo" cause he seems to predict everiones actions and he has PERFECT execution (most players here do).

Hey Ninja! when you get the tape, post your opinions and compare the matches to what you have seen over the web.

BTW: THIS is what I always espected of an MK thread: good, thecnical info. If anyone wants to post shit or flames or wathever time-wasting stuff like: "I beat you so you suck" please, Moderators ban them inmediatly!

[Hentai]

EWAShock, Hanzo Hasashi

Mortal Kombat is not deserving of posts this long or thought out, seriously.

[EWAShock]

So is Venezuela the place to be for MK competition or something now? Also you realize by eliminating a part of the game like throwing, much of your credibility is lost, it changes the whole scope of the match, it's like saying people will play MvC2 with no assists on, granted assists play a bigger role in MvC2 than throws do in MK on the whole, but regardless, it's a part if the game, and if it's because you guys get thrown a lot, then if I ever got to play you I'd throw you guys day and night and then teach you how not to be thrown. I just don't understand stuff like that. But anyways in all seriousness, if you guys can please get some match videos up, I'd like to see, I'm always interested in it.

Matt

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

So is Venezuela the place to be for MK competition or something now? Also you realize by eliminating a part of the game like throwing, much of your credibility is lost, it changes the whole scope of the match, it's like saying people will play MvC2 with no assists on, granted assists play a bigger role in MvC2 than throws do in MK on the whole, but regardless, it's a part if the game, and if it's because you guys get thrown a lot, then if I ever got to play you I'd throw you guys day and night and then teach you how not to be thrown. I just don't understand stuff like that. But anyways in all seriousness, if you guys can please get some match videos up, I'd like to see, I'm always interested in it.

But dont take it that way, we played MK3 with throws and when UMK3 arived we realized how much the throws took away the best part of the UMK3 gameplay. No we dont get throw a lot. In fact, we still hold the stick diagonal like if we were playing with them. No you would not throw us a lot. First play with us and then make a comment. People may say that Im the tipical guy that go in different threads and try to fuck them up by posting BS. No. The thing that annoys me the most is, that you guys make tiers and stuffbut when it comes to tourney time EVERYBODY SUCK. Sorry but its true. No consistent combos, no good strats, etc...Proof of that in your own fotage. Good in theory but bad at pratice. Believe me, the MK competition in Vzla is the best I've seen and experienced. Im not saying it because I live there.

Matt, do you use MSN? If so, give me your adress via PM. Thx

EWAShock, Hanzo Hasashi Mortal Kombat is not deserving of posts this long or thought out, seriously

LOL...but is as fun as talking about other games!

[EWAShock]

Well I'm still waiting for the tourny, or even casual gameplay footage of you guys. I know from my personal experience playing and beating people here in NJ since I was 14 for years before I even considered myself a competitive player, and now to a greater extenet all over the US through Kaillera that I am one of the best people around, and it's undisputed, people agree lag isn't even a factor on that, only guys who beat me at all are Moe and Thrower, and of course the Prophet and DreemerNJ (whom I play at home), another guy Lord Darkstalker who wins about 10% of the matches I play against him with everyone else winning about 1%. Konqrr is good, but I would say lag definitely plays a factor in his timing, but not his combos, since he is across the country on DSL and doesn't usually get under 115ms when playing. Again, online these are people all over the United States which has almost 13 times the population of Venezuela.

If you guys don't get thrown a lot, then why bother disabling throws at all? Disabling something generally means you don't like it, and not liking generally stems from not being able to deal with a certain property of a game. I'm not exactly sure what it removes from the game that disabling it would make benefit close combat, since you have lesser fear of run jab rush down etc, which is a huge part of the game for a good number of characters. It just doesn't make sense. And if you guys are just simply that aggressive, someone like the Prophet is going to take you down, easily.

I've only yet to see a randper match with Ninja Grinder and someone else, so whenever you guys have more stuff to show, do it up.

Matt

[thrower]

when yall niggaz want to play some mk. im , pm me whatever and we can run some on kaillera. die die die die die die die :lame: :lame: :lame: :lame: :lame: :lame: :lame:

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

Well I'm still waiting for the tourny, or even casual gameplay footage of you guys. I know from my personal experience playing and beating people here in NJ since I was 14 for years before I even considered myself a competitive player, and now to a greater extenet all over the US through Kaillera that I am one of the best people around, and it's undisputed, people agree lag isn't even a factor on that, only guys who beat me at all are Moe and Thrower, and of course the Prophet and DreemerNJ (whom I play at home), another guy Lord Darkstalker who wins about 10% of the matches I play against him with everyone else winning about 1%. Konqrr is good, but I would say lag definitely plays a factor in his timing, but not his combos, since he is across the country on DSL and doesn't usually get under 115ms when playing. Again, online these are people all over the United States which has almost 13 times the population of Venezuela.

Patience people..the footage will be released soon...everybody will like it I assure you.
On other topic. Yeah, It sucks to play with HUGE lag...

How do you like the home versions of MK matt?

[colguile]

EWAShock, Hanzo Hasashi

Mortal Kombat is not deserving of posts this long or thought out, seriously.
I second this.

lol.

Man, It's fucking amazing.

:clap:

[EWAShock]

I really don't like any of the home versions of any MK games except the revised MKT on PSX. All other versions are not even close to arcade standards except that.

Matt

[danomyte]

I really don't like any of the home versions of any MK games except the revised MKT on PSX. All other versions are not even close to arcade standards except that.

Matt
example? :xeye:

[EWAShock]

OK we'll start with a guideline. I only play UMK3 and MKT.

We'll start with SNES and Genesis UMK3.

Aside from the obvious stuff like speed, glitchiness, and frame hacking, things that cannot be avoided in any previous translation to what can be done as of say DreamCast, collision detection is way off on both systems. On SNES wall detection has a much larger area where you will experience the "ice skate" state which pushes you back from the wall almost to emulate that there isn't really a wall there. The area is about twice, to 3 times the width that of the arcade, which is totally messed up, not balanced cause it was clearly unintentional. It has everything to do with the collision boxes being enormous and since they are bigger, the amount of pixels away from a wall a character can be is indirectly shortened, as this is what effects wall pushing as well as how many hits happen before certain moves, ie: two anti air HPs will push you back depending how far away from the wall you're opponents back most wall of their frame is, and roundhouses can be alarmingly close to the wall as long as the opponent is overhead, on SNES and Genesis this is not the case, but it's severly worse on SNES. Jax's missiles in MK3 have no load/lag time between them, this was fixed in UMK3, however SNES UMK3, they still act like MK3, Kano's knife uppercut and Sindel's fireball are a LOT faster than the arcade. Kung Lao's spin requires no hits between it in order to do another one, example in the corner: spin spin spin spin spin spin spin spin spin spin spin is an infinite, in the arcade you would have to stick at least a jump kick inbetween. Nightwolf's axe uppercut in combo recovers so much faster it is not sane. You can do way too much with it and it's wrong. All recovery time on attacks has been shortened by several frames allowing combos which are not possible in the arcade to be done on the home systems. Gravity is also off as well. On Genesis Human Smoke does not have a pop up combo, making him nearly identical to Scorpion because he infact has Scorpion's kick combo, I don't remember if they added speed to Human Smoke but it doesn't matter, lack of pop up combo means no damage.

Most of, if not all of this, applies to N64 MKT. Along with this nonsense, N64's got a lot of it's own rules. Things like teleport punches for Scorpion, Ermac, and Human Smoke are instantfriggingtaneous like the CPU's in the arcade versions of the games. You can do a teleport punch and there is no delay between that and another one, you can combo up to 4 teleport punches in a row. Imripossiblydiculous. Noob Saibot has an easy cheesey teleport slam infinite that can be done off virtually any attack. Rain's lightening can hit unblockably when you are off the ground. These things are not comparable to any arcade version, however...next point.

MKT for PSX, the original version, had messed up gravity, and the Noob infinite, and there was something different about Rain's roundhouse that made his HP RH infinite impossible, or near impossible, however in both N64 MKT and revised MKT for PSX, Rain's RH inf is possible, but in RMKT for PSX, Noob's inf is not, and gravity correction disable a lot of infs that were possible in the original MKT. This gravity correction alone makes RMKT for PSX the closest to arcade style UMK3 gameplay as any home system ever made with the only real difference being speed and frame hacking, and speed is well attributed to said frame hacking. The increase however does not make anyone more powerful from previous games because the speed increase is plus 33% for all characters. Some more simple examples, the actual sprites for the Ninja jumping HP was changed to just their teleport punch and this makes little sense, their roundhouse was also severely hacked giving it near Dragon Punch level invincibility. Sub-zero was removed from N64 MKT but his moves were not. They were given to Classic Sub-zero making an unholy insanely powerful Doub-Zero. He has regular freeze, ground freeze, iceclone, air freeze, and slide. Truly devastating, but also completely not intended to be that way. With all the corrections made to RMKT for PSX, I would assume all properties in that game are as they would have been had it made it to the arcade.

UMK3 for Sega Saturn is loaded with problems all over the place, but I don't have enough experience with it to list them however gravity is a real problem in that game and it was the first thing I noticed when I played it so many years ago.

MKT for the PC is a solid mix of the original PSX and revised PSX, it's like PSX 1.5. There's gravity mistakes, but it's not as severe as the first PSX version. Infinite corrections and miscorrections are there. It is I believe even faster than MKT for PSX but that might have something to do with CPU speed, I'm not sure. I noticed something specific with Human Smoke's combo ending with a jump kick air throw, the air throw has a really nasty placement on it else it won't hit. I'm sure this is a universal flaw in the design and has ramifications on combos all across the board.

I don't know anything about MKT for Saturn but I hear it's pretty messed up too.

That's about all I can think of off hand. I hope it answered your question.

Matt

[Cisco]

MKtrilogy was the best MK IMO. It had all the kick ass characters ever made in the MK series (from UMK3-MK1). What is the tier list in the MK series from MKT-MK1?

[GosBroDansFan]

I was always lead to believe that Human Smoke is the Same as Scorpion yet scorp is left out of the talks. Why is that? Forgive the noob


In UMK3 H. Smoke and Scorpion are similar. However, Smoke has a few things that Scorpion doesn't, which edges Smoke out and makes him better.

Smoke has Punch and Kick autocombos like Scorpion, but then he has a couple of popups as well, and his lk, d+lp popup is extremely helpful. Also, I think there are some priority differences with his air throw and a few other tweaks here and there.

H. Smoke is like Scorpion rev 1.1. He's got a few additions that make a big impact on his abilities and remove any reason to play as Scorpion at all.

In MKT, they gave Scorpion the extra teleport to kind of empower him some more, but I don't think it helps enough, especially since the teleport is such a damage killer if you combo off of it.

[GosBroDansFan]

I personally think UMK3 for the arcade is the most balanced and deepest just because of how many good characters are in it. I think MK2 might have been in the running for this if it had damage protection to take care of those easy, huge damage, 3 or 4 hit combos.

[kane_warhead]

Who's this?

http://www.blood-sports.net/interviews/mkda.shtml

[EWAShock]

Don't listen to a word that guy says kane.

[kane_warhead]

I thought the MK 2 champion was Jason Wilson? I heard it here and I also heard it in mortalkombatonline.com that Jason won MK 2.

Anyway, I was searching for tourney vids of any kind for MK when I came unto that interview. I dont know if I should believe it or just trash it. But what he says about MK holds true.

[EWAShock]

Match videos:

www.darktemplarz.com/umk3matchvids
www.darktemplarz.com/umk3matchvids/ecc9

Some of the others sites with match vids seem to be down right now. Hopefully Lex will post them.

Matt

[Singe]

I liked what I saw in some of the past MK videos I saw, but how can most of those combos be done? Without an unlimited run meter, you can't in anyway do some of the things I saw without cheats of some type.

[!!Sazabi!!]

you don't need unlimited run to do any of that

[kane_warhead]

I already downloaded it like months ago. Any more new footage?

[EWAShock]

Singe, can you give me one example of a combo in any of the 6 videos we have made, being umk3.wmv, umk3sp1.wmv, umk3sp2.wmv, umk3sp3.wmv, umk3sp4.wmv, or mkkompletions.wmv, where we used infinite run?

Matt

[Lex]

Hanzo:

kabal is the best. if you dont think so, then you haven't played a proper kabal. plain and simple.

if you guys arent used to being thrown or throwing, then you arent playing at high level. once i realize that you cant fight with throws, its kitana and sheeva time. then youll learn soon enough.

edit: umk3 is most balanced out of the series. mk2 is the most unbalanced (jax and millena own everyone else so badly)

[Johnny-Cakes]

yes. kabal owns u all

[Johnny-Cakes]

[QUOTE=Hanzo_Hasashi]But dont take it that way, we played MK3 with throws and when UMK3 arived we realized how much the throws took away the best part of the UMK3 gameplay. No we dont get throw a lot. In fact, we still hold the stick diagonal like if we were playing with them. No you would not throw us a lot. First play with us and then make a comment. People may say that Im the tipical guy that go in different threads and try to fuck them up by posting BS. No. The thing that annoys me the most is, that you guys make tiers and stuffbut when it comes to tourney time EVERYBODY SUCK. Sorry but its true. No consistent combos, no good strats, etc...Proof of that in your own fotage. Good in theory but bad at pratice. Believe me, the MK competition in Vzla is the best I've seen and experienced. Im not saying it because I live there.

Matt, do you use MSN? If so, give me your adress via PM. Thx




By removing an integral element like throwing from MK your showing everyone how scrubby u are. I don't need to play u to know your scrubby.

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

Ok I will split this again:

kabal is the best. if you dont think so, then you haven't played a proper kabal. plain and simple.

Until I see at least DECENT gameplay level no one have the rights to say anything about tiers and stuff...as I said...someone define the true concept of high level gameplay in UMK3 and then compare it to your vids. A while ago Matt posted a good rundown in wich he thinks how Kabal would dominate the game. Thats what I want for the MK competition scene in forums. Not people flaming each others. But on the other side...What can I do with a good theory in how Kabal is the best when NO ONE uses or at least showed in the vids a decent Kabal? In our upcoming vids you will see my Kabal and how I think he should be played(BTW Im the ONLY good Kabal player in my country!) and another variety of things like devastating combos (MK2 Kung Lao's 100%, Nightwolf`s 4 Green Axe combo, Ermac`s 71% begginning with a Juggle HP and at mid-screen, Sadistic Smoke's combos like 60% Jumping Hk, Spear, HkLp, Jump Deep Hk, Spear after 5 hits, HkD+LpD+Hp, Jump Deep Hk and Jump again Hk, etc...) and good strategies (No sweep is unpunished = you cannot sweep in Venezuela, even with the tip of the foot!, Sonya's annonying gameplay basis, etc...). Oh!, and you people will see why we play without throws! :clap: Believe me, everyone will like what we will show on the vids!

if you guys arent used to being thrown or throwing, then you arent playing at high level. once i realize that you cant fight with throws, its kitana and sheeva time. then youll learn soon enough.

As I posted before, we USED to play with throws but they take away too much of the game`s depth. Example: A throw can beat a Shadow Ram!? A Spin Dash?! That is scrubby to us because is the easiest way to get off a compromised situation and is only a button press or even mashing! A tip: that's why we say that your gameplay looks clunky or even slow to us. The throws SLOWDOWN the game bigtime. Also there is no throw reversal and is the scrubbiest way to do damage. Anyway, with or without throws, people will see a HUGE defference in execution and reaction time to each situation in comparison to the footage you guys have showed.

By removing an integral element like throwing from MK your showing everyone how scrubby u are. I don't need to play u to know your scrubby.

As I previously posted, wait until you see our vids and then you can judge, compare and emit a veredict about who is scrubby and who is not.

To Ninja_Grinder: yes Ninja i already sent the vids, and yes, to your Mother`s work address. (Pretty pricey the shipment! :sad: damn Venezuela and President Chavez!)

BTW: Lex are you into the Dj's stuff? By your avatar. And please, the time I downloaded yourvids, the Lexhibition was Damaged/Corrupted (Media Player message). Could you please put them online again sometime?

THX to Everybody

[Lex]

Ok I will split this again:



Until I see at least DECENT gameplay level no one have the rights to say anything about tiers and stuff...


at the end of the day, vids dont mean anything

Anyway, with or without throws, people will see a HUGE defference in execution and react time to each situation in comparison to the footage you guys have showed.

edit: btw, since you are going to go on about it like this, then how are you going to argue against what WaveNet did for the skill of its players? Its something that hasnt been available anywhere else, which means venezuelan players never had the benefit of playing someone thats miles away from you... which means we would know better about umk3 tiers... any other questions?

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

at the end of the day, vids dont mean anything

If you say so...then why posting? Lets screw this post and all the others! Vids now doesnt mean nothing!(Kidding!) So if this is right then Daigo , Tokido and Ino (to name a few) are scrubs or their vids mean nothing...

edit: btw, since you are going to go on about it like this, then how are you going to argue against what WaveNet did for the skill of its players? Its something that hasnt been available anywhere else, which means venezuelan players never had the benefit of playing someone thats miles away from you... which means we would know better about umk3 tiers... any other questions?

Nothing to say abou that, cause as you said...we havent had the pleasure of that...so I dont know wich effect it will make on the players here...buts sound interesting :tup:

[Ken34]

MKtrilogy was the best MK IMO. It had all the kick ass characters ever made in the MK series (from UMK3-MK1). What is the tier list in the MK series from MKT-MK1?

I agree, nothing beats trilogy, I stoped playing mortal kombat after I found out how shitty part 4 was...

[EWAShock]

I play against countless people in UMK3 across the country via Kaillera, and regardless of ping, even times when I am in severe disadvantages, I still win, and the amount of people in the US available to play versus that of which exist in Venezuela is at least 13 (as I have mentioned before) based on statistical evidence, and then probablity wise, MK is most likely more popular overall in the US than in Venezuela. I'm impossible to really know how much more competition is available in the US, but understand that it is much more. I could totally picture you being a diamond in the rough, and I would love to play against you, but you have to realize there is a major flaw in the logic that disabling throws makes the gameplay better. That's totally subjective, and many people would laugh at that. If you play without them too much, people will indeed take advantage of your apparent inability to deal with throws, and then you might think that's cheap, but it's going to be your own fault in the long run. PM me sometime and I will even play on a South American server, but actually, a Florida one might not be too horrible for either of us since your jump is across water, I've played people in Super Turbo in the UK and Vs games in Spain and had less lag than playing on a California server.

Aside from the fact that I love playing against people, and hearing about and fine tuning/evolving strategies, I also love to hear about devastating combos. What is your 4 axe combo with Nightwolf and who is possible on?

As for Ermac, I think it's been demonstrated in the videos and the match videos that we (NJ) have redefined what it means to get big damage with Ermac, regardless of where a character is on screen or who it is. I just recently got a 90% mid screen combo with him on Jax, and 83% is possible on anyone, starting with a counter anti air jump kick. I have a standard 74% Ermac combo on any character, but sometimes it's not worth going for since most of the time you can win a match with him without doing the full damage, and I get a 65% combo instead. There is also a standard 74% on any character starting with an anti air HP with Ermac, and on a lot of characters, 76%, not to mention the endles ways to start, and vartiations of 100% Ermac combos in the corner. I also recently got the the timing down to get a useless, but legit 3 TKS in one combo. Feel free to share anything you come up with.

Matt

[Isop]

Uh, not to go off topic, but is there a way to exceede the max damage limiter in MK4; beisdes the code. Also, is the damage protection the same in MK4 as it is in UMK? Hell, has the damage protection in MK always been the same; has it always used the same system? Just been wondering about those... :confused: .

[EWAShock]

Damage protection was introduced in MK3 and it works on a similar basis in MK4, however damage altogether in MK4 is lower to begin with. There's a simple way to explain it.

Certain moves cause it.

But that's not me at all, here's a more indepth look at DP, once you activate it, you cannot turn it off until the combo breaks/finishes.

If you jump kick someone while they are standing on the ground, DP is enabled. Say you get a jump kick on a ground opponent and do Scorpion's spear instantly afterward, to 4 hit combo. It will register as 6 hits 29%. The same combo starting with a jump kick that connects in the air is 6 hits 44%.

All initial hits of combos do the same damage for every character. These are the HP and HK body blows, usually an elbow or a knee lift type move, HP doing 9%, and HK doing 10%, however, after that, the next hit does damage that has been selectively delegated to each hit by it's autocombo rationing/properties, but in any situation, no matter how far into a blocked combo, for instance a pop up HK LP, if the person releases block after the first hit, the LP will still do it's predesignated damage, and therefore enabling damage protection for any hits that combo in the air including air throws which usually do not count as part of a combo. So in short, the second hit of an auto combo enables damage protection.

Some special moves enable damage protection as a means to balance characters. Teleport punches from Smoke, Scorpion, and Ermac all enable damage protection. Kitanas fan lift and her fan toss, Nightwolf's Axe uppercut, Cyrax's throw, Stryker's Riot Gun, Kung Lao's spin, Mileena's roll, and Reptile's forceballs are moves I think can of off the top of my head. Also, for Sonya, if you get anymore than 2 hits before her leg grab, the leg grab is double damage protected, much like Liu Kang's pop up combo enables double DP. Example, HP, HP, leg grab, 3 hits 34%. HP HP JK leg grab, 4 hits 33%. The third punch of Sub-zero's autocombo makes the 4th hit do less damage and I don't know why, this doesn't happen when the CPU does his combo, so if you get his full 6 hit ground combo it does less damage than his 5 hit, however, if you start the combo with a JP or straight up JK, it does the right damage.

I feel all containment moves should have enabled damage protection, and Kabal's spin should have done double damage protection so it would effect the damage of the ground combo. If you do a jump kick and get an unblocked spin, then do his autocombo with a jump kick start, it will register 8 hits 29%, the same combo without the jump kick is 7 hits 27%, an anti air jump kick, then an unblocked spin, kick starter, to autocombo: 8 hits 42%.

If there's anymore specfic questions feel free to ask, and if anyone has anything to add, go right ahead.

Edit: Just added some more match videos

http://www.darktemplarz.com/umk3matchvids/090704/

They feature Kabal this time, hope you like them Hanzo.

Matt

[Superking]

To high-level MK players, what do you guys think of MK Trilogy? I've always liked that the one the best since it had every character, well the Playstation version did. :bgrin:

[EWAShock]

I enjoy MKT very much so, the revised version that is. It adds more characters to the pre-existing UMK3 top tier, although broken as friggin hell they are, and MK3 Kung Lao can only use one spin per combo making him relatively less threatening, however he can now move much like Zangief can move while doing his lariat.. It's good in a way cause it make Kabal earn his victories. MK2 Kung Lao, Noob Saibot, Rain, Baraka, all are really deadly in MKT. Apparently MK2 Jax is as well according to some, but I really don't see the MK2 strategies working in the faster environment where it's easier to move around them. His ground pound is still fast, but that is not enough to win against the rest of the top tier. Overall the Greatest Hits MKT for PSX is very much like a Super UMK3 2 Turbo.

Matt

[Cisco]

MKT was the best for me, after that the MK series became shit.

NOW, Can someone tell me the tier list of MKT!!

[Cisco]

Well, i'm not sure about this, but i think the tier for MKT goes like this.

Tier 1
Chameleon
Noob Saibot
Rain
Ermac
Sub zero (unmasked)

Tier 2
Kabal
Reptile


I don't know, i just made this list up. Reptile was my favorite character in the entire MK series, so i guess i ranked him alittle to high.

*Who's better, scorpion or Human smoke?

[AHVB]

Why Was Human Smoke So Deadly? He Seemed Like A Gray Scorpion With Smoke Coming OUt Of His Shoulders.

[sixtymhz]

Human Smoke has a launcher combo which can become easy 50%+ damage and he has an air throw. The sucker is to deadly.

Tier listing?? I know Tier 1 has Human Smoke and Kabal first. Who follows that I don't know. I sure it's in this thread some where.

[fugee]

YO Ewashock..get at me on aim..Bobbydrake54...tryna see if wanna play on line sometime..peace

[EWAShock]

Yeah Human Smoke is also faster, and out prioritizes a lot of characters when attacks are done at the exact same time. He's like Super Scorpion. Personally I think he shouldn't have had an air throw, but even without it he still would have been far better merely because of the launcher combo. I think I've explained his before, but, just say you connect a jump punch starter on a cross up with Scorpion and Smoke, your maximum practical damage result for Scorpion is 33% and for Smoke is 62%, and this is anywhere in mid screen, for Smoke damage possibilities open up even more in the corners upwards to 67% for reasonably easy damage. It might be a lot easier to do the 4 hit combo, as I have seen people do with Smoke who don't know what they're doing, but regardless, you're doing nearly double the damage with the same set up and a little bit of effort. All it takes is two mistakes and Smoke wins because it's 50% for anything he connects. Another example, if Scorpion gets a knee lift combo, HK HK LK LK, that's 4 hits 23%, but if Smoke connects a knee lift combo, HK LP, he can get up to 57% without much effort.

Also Fugee, I added you to my list.

Matt

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

I play against countless people in UMK3 across the country via Kaillera, and regardless of ping, even times when I am in severe disadvantages, I still win, and the amount of people in the US available to play versus that of which exist in Venezuela is at least 13 (as I have mentioned before) based on statistical evidence, and then probablity wise, MK is most likely more popular overall in the US than in Venezuela. I'm impossible to really know how much more competition is available in the US, but understand that it is much more. I could totally picture you being a diamond in the rough, and I would love to play against you, but you have to realize there is a major flaw in the logic that disabling throws makes the gameplay better. That's totally subjective, and many people would laugh at that. If you play without them too much, people will indeed take advantage of your apparent inability to deal with throws, and then you might think that's cheap, but it's going to be your own fault in the long run. PM me sometime and I will even play on a South American server, but actually, a Florida one might not be too horrible for either of us since your jump is across water, I've played people in Super Turbo in the UK and Vs games in Spain and had less lag than playing on a California server.

Believe me Matt, we used to play with throws until we realized how they affect the game and slow it dowm...if it is possible I will record more matches but this time playing with Throwing encouraged code to demonstrate that.

Nightwolf 4 Axe combo: basic HkHpHpLp Green Axe combo, afdter that is pretty straight 3 more axes to the ninjas. The second is inmediately after the combo and for the third and fourth axes you have to walk a little between them.

Shang Tsung-Nightwolf Morphing combo: Only on Arcade, Three Ground Skulls, morph into Nightwolf, 10 Axes in a row. I dont recall well but I think it was 100% vital combo.

I did this sick combo with Ermac the other day on the arcade: HkLp, Telekinetick Slam, when rebounding in the floor, HkLp, Jump foward, DEEP Kick and then Tlkinetik Slm (After 5 Hits), when rebounding again HkLp, another DEEP jumping Kick then run + Hk or wathever you like.

I tried this shit in N64 and it worked well, dont know in the arcade, the setup is very tricky and it will took several tries: Shang vs. reptile. At full screen, Shang cornered, morph into Nightwolf, then wait until the morph is almost off, with reptie throw the Slow Forceball, reflect it with Nightwolf and then Reptile has to jump backwards an Nightwolf/Shang follow him running. When Nightwolf morphs into Shang again, morph into Kitana. Keep running till the other corner, reptile must Jump Up, Kitana must do: Juggle Hp(single) Jump Kick, Roundhouse, then the Forceball hits, Kitana do: standing HPx2, Jumping Kick, Fan Throw, Jump Kick, Roundhouse, run Lk...100%! :clap:

edit: I watched the extra matches on your site...I dont want to say it because this could start the flame war here and the thread is progressing nicely, but the vids were weak, the Scorpion player doesnt seems to know how to play and the Kabal doesnt have good execution in most of the rounds. An infinite well landed doesnt is proof enough that a player is good. There were no real strategies there(Scorpion does an Lp flurry then throw the spear?! Even my mom doesnt eat that! What was he thinking?). Sorry but it is true.

PD: I love the new clap icon! :clap:

[sixtymhz]

Shang Tsung-Nightwolf Morphing combo: Only on Arcade, Three Ground Skulls, morph into Nightwolf, 10 Axes in a row. I dont recall well but I think it was 100% vital combo.



Thats pretty interesting....

[EWAShock]

ok thanks I've always wondered exactly how the Nightwolf multi-axe combo went, now I see and can do it. It's weird how it works on the Ninjas so well, but not Stryker, Jax and Sub-zero.

Also the axe does 5.5% after the first one, so it'd take 16 axes plus Shang's ground eruption to kill.

I'm still waiting for Ninja Grinder to upload the videos to me. When I get them I'll send them to Lex to see what he thinks. I'll go through and host the good ones on DTZ.

Matt

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

Also the axe does 5.5% after the first one, so it'd take 16 axes plus Shang's ground eruption to kill.

After the 10 Axes if I recall well Nightwolf morphs again, then you could do 2 Hp, Walk, another Hp, Jumping Kick.

Tried the Nightwolf/Shang/Kitana combo already?

Im doing some research on the MK4/Gold engine and i got 70 different maximum Damage combos with Scorpion, all of them VS match aplicables. they range from 41% to 65% Damage. I will record them and I recently got a video capture card and will edit them to make a vid, I will call it something like : "MK4/Gold Maximum Damage Collection Volume XX" or something, but I want to know wich programs do you guys recomend for the video editing, joint and music?

Thx to everyone

[sixtymhz]

awesome, more MK vids on the way.

woot

BTW MK sucks balls. :tdown:

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

Matt, ninja_grinder told me sometthing about uploading my vids using your FTP... what can be done? I have everithing encoded and ready t pay in mpeg1 format.

[AndrewTS]

Overall the Greatest Hits MKT for PSX is very much like a Super UMK3 2 Turbo.

Matt

So they put out a revision to a HOME version of a game...?!

Wait--why am I shocked? They did that with MK Gold.

Do these guys ever bug test?

[EWAShock]

Hanzo, I PMed you with the info.

And yeah, they revised MKT, surprisngly enough. They did not do enough testing.

Matt

[The Prophet]

I think UMK3 is quite balanced and deep. The skill level of players involved in competition is very important though...for example, even a Human Smoke player can place dead last in a tournament. :badboy:

[ninjagrinder]

that's true. I've always said the player skill is more important than the char options. any char can be deadly if used properly...

[EWAShock]

Yeah Prophet, I can't even remember the name of that Human Smoke player, I guess he wasn't important enough to get recognized.

Matt

[Lex]

i just wanted to add:

umk3 is the best american fighting game made.

[The Prophet]

i just wanted to add:

umk3 is the best american fighting game made.

Agreed.

...which pisses me off all the more that UMK3 won't be included on Midway Arcade Treasures 2. (I even emailed Midway and they said it will be MK2 and MK3 only.) Why no UMK3 inclusion both baffles and angers me. :mad: :sad:

I *might* still buy it for Primal Rage...but the lack of UMK3 just flat out pisses me off.

I'll prolly sent another email (perhaps even a formal snail mail) to Midway about this...I encourage all UMK3 fans to voice their desire for an arcade perfect UMK3 console port as well. Maybe we can convince Midway to include UMK3 on Midway Arcade Treasures 3 or something. (Having to wait the 6-12 months won't be cool, but if that's what it takes, so be it.)

Ah well...back to MKD. :confused: (not that it's a bad game or anything, I am enjoying it thus far...but an arcade perfect UMK3 would have been superior choice to MK1 IMHO)

[EWAShock]

Well, I just found out that MK2 and MK3 have serious sound and graphical issues in the finished product, so UMK3 which would only require more physical space would probably wind up being just like MK3 in terms of performace. Their laziness is astounding. The reason they didn't include UMK3 is because their will to work for their money is not there. They must have put some kind of effort into trying to emulate the arcade roms, but now I think it was the wrong route, not through emulation like something mame does, but they could manipulate the engine they used for MKT and easily slap over the arcade quality everything, and manually tweak speed and they would have as close to perfect an arcade translation of UMK3 as necessary. Things like adjusting collision boxes for what would be bigger characters is routine, but perhaps it's too much work for them. There's one annoying thing about the sound in MKT, when you hit a character their scream does not stop once another hit connects, so you hear doubles, and triples of screams so it sounds like a really annoying echo, but something like that could be corrected by simply sticking in a 1 line command to stop the specific sound if another starts while it's still going. However, I'm insulted by their lack of care.

Matt

[ninjagrinder]

how can I email 'em? please give me their address...

[Dasrik]

Sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, but...

People who say "Everyone can kick ass in the right hands" are really saying "I haven't played this game enough".

[Blackheart2097]

i coulda sworn it was trilogy....

[The Prophet]

ninjagrinder - check out www.midway.com
They have plenty of email addys, phone #s, etc. etc. (The one that sent me a reply was support@midway.com) I replied to their reply (informing me that MAT2 would be MK2 and MK3 only) with an expression of my profound disappointment, along with the question if UMK3 would ever be console-ported. I received no reply to that. :(

Matt - I told you they would f*** it up somehow.

Blackheart2097 - to which tournament/whatnot are you referring to...?

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

People who say "Everyone can kick ass in the right hands" are really saying "I haven't played this game enough".

that only will apply to a Capcom game. But this could be true to an exent...picture Sektor vs. :devil: Sonya :devil: ... who will win? :clap:

Hint: Stick this finger in the ass :tup: if some one says that Sektor can win. no matter who is playing Sektor and dont care about the homming missiles...if Kerry Hoskins land a combo/launcher on him...is good bye Sektor. Also Sektor has nothing to get in, Sonya can kill him with only crouching Lk and will not let him throw the homming missile rushing him. There are LOT worse match ups.

[MiyagiShin X]

that only will apply to a Capcom game. But this could be true to an exent...picture Sektor vs. :devil: Sonya :devil: ... who will win? :clap:

Hint: Stick this finger in the ass :tup: if some one says that Sektor can win. no matter who is playing Sektor and dont care about the homming missiles...if Kerry Hoskins land a combo/launcher on him...is good bye Sektor. Also Sektor has nothing to get in, Sonya can kill him with only crouching Lk and will not let him throw the homming missile rushing him. There are LOT worse match ups.

The topic was what was the most balanced MK game, because we all know MK is not balanced. Doesnt matter if the series puts out a thousand more games, they would have to completly redo MK series to make it balanced. :rofl:

But to answer the question UMK3 is truley the most balanced.

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

To EWA Shock:
Saw our vids? What do you think? :rolleyes:

[EWAShock]

You guys pulled out a lot of cool combos, but the rush down seemed very blind and the blocking was minimal, in other words, way too many combos got started because someone stopped blocking thinking they could prevent the rush down rather than making the other person make a mistake or do an attack that would allow an opening to escape. Overall, very interesting to watch, seeing as I watched all the matches through in their entirety and didn't skip at all. However, playing with no throws just totally rips apart any serious level of competition because the fear of being thrown at all is removed.

Matt

[OrangeCat]

Hanzo...EWAShock, the only way to settle your differences is through one event...and one event only.

MORTAL KOMBAT!

*cues MK:Movie soundtrack*

Oh yeah great stuff from both of you.

[danomyte]

hows the balance in MKD? to new to have tier list? korba(ken) is so TT!!!

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

You guys pulled out a lot of cool combos, but the rush down seemed very blind and the blocking was minimal, in other words, way too many combos got started because someone stopped blocking thinking they could prevent the rush down rather than making the other person make a mistake or do an attack that would allow an opening to escape. Overall, very interesting to watch, seeing as I watched all the matches through in their entirety and didn't skip at all. However, playing with no throws just totally rips apart any serious level of competition because the fear of being thrown at all is removed.

Well...dont agree with some parts of this...

"...rush down seemed very blind and the blocking was minimal..."

This is applicable to my Kabal vs Nightwolf match where I run and throw Lps at random but as you could see after that, I was ggofing around, in the 2nd round I goof too but with Jumping Fireballs until I get caught (and for that reason I losed My Kabal :sad: )but in both rounds you can see how I stop being cocky and play seriously against the fucking turtle of Predator (the other player).

"...in other words, way too many combos got started because someone stopped blocking thinking they could prevent the rush down rather than making the other person make a mistake or do an attack that would allow an opening to escape..."

It is not a matter of releasing the block button, if we were playing with throws I will get throwed if I released the button and there is no more ridiculous way to lose 20/23% of your life bar than that. Throw requires no skill more than pressing a button. It takes more skill tp get out of a difficult situation without throwing...that is the way of the scrubs when they are getting rushed in the corner...they let themselves be thrownto get out. We were thinking also on recording matches with throwing enabled for you to see the same results as our previous vids but with just a few ocassional throws. Also, if we dont try to get an opening in the rushdowns, fucking MK2 Kung Lao will rape us! (as he did :clap: ).

Try this: each MK2 Kung Lao vs Any character, each other away full screen, make them run at the same time and start a combo at the same time, see who will win...no matter at wich distance earlier do you start the combos...even if your char sticks out a punch flurry or an Hk/Lk...MK2 Lao will win...people arent aware of that fucking situation and the hard time we have dealin with it. Is cheaper than Noob Saibot! Its awful and a combo leads to an easy 100%. Sick. Thank you Midway testing team.

Aside of that an aclaratory on why we think that throws ruin the game:

Picture Ermac vs. MK3 Sub Zero (or any character), Sub is rushing Ermac with running Lps and the throws are enabled, ermac has to hold Back/Down to prevent being throwed or speeped, right? But what happens to Sub (wich is still rushing) if Ermac releases block and, still holding back jams on Lp button?

Simply: Sub gets thrown, then if the player is smart enough he will try to be more careful when rushing or the worst: he will think it TWICE before rushing again. what means this? The Sub Zero players will prefer to turtle and not to rush to prevent getting throwed. This will allow Ermac to come out and rush Sub Zero, UNTIL the Sub player learn the trick of throwing the other player. And NO ONE wants to see a pair of turtlers in a game that EVERYBODY in this forum agrees in that UMK3 is a rushdown game(if that is the term, sorry by my bad english :lame: )

This can be prevented by : anticipating when the defending player will release block and do a combo (this will ruin the rushing if the defensive player dont release block because will pull you far away of your opponent and give him chance to do something), OR, keep rushing until getting thrown by the other player.

This leads to a very monotonous match were there is no excitement, no combos, no awesome plays, nothing. Just a couple of characters being throwed by the mistake of other players. This can be seen much clearly in MK4 since the pullback is greater in blocked moves.

Well...Thanks for watching them in a so careful way Matt, and thanks for the comment (wich I apreciate very much), and if you still are interested in hosting them it will be good!

Thanks to everyone for your time and for reading this and all coments are welcome! lets keep MK alive!

Hanzo...EWAShock, the only way to settle your differences is through one event...and one event only.

This is true...but HARD to accomplish! I live in South America and right now in my country there is a FUCKING monetary control where NO ONE gets $$ except for the president... :clap:...awesome...and sad...

Damn Fidel Castro Clone...

BTW, I played MKD... Shock, did you played it already? What were yout thoughts?

[GosBroDansFan]

Even with the description, I still don't get the disabling of throws. I mean, you are saying you guys turn it off because of the effect it has on gameplay, so you admit it has a big effect. That big effect is part of the game and when you turn it off you play a different game, an easier one because an element is eliminated. Its very similar to someone turning off autocombos because they are easy damage, or turning on unlimited run because it increases how cool a juggle can look or whatever other excuse is created to avoid actually playing the game in its entirety.

[EWAShock]

I played MKD online a bunch of times, it's somewhat fun, but still way too much like MKDA, and I didn't like MKDA. Perhaps the next version they will get serious with the gameplay.

Also, when people run in to combo, I will often kara jab now, something I had been working on with the teleporters, and Lex had mentioned it to me as well sometime after that, I didn't think of a term for it, but he calls it Kara jabbing, where you jab and cancel with block, or a special even without the full intention of hitting, this way you're not throwing out a flurry of punches, it's just one well timed jab that stops them in their tracks because they are timing to attack about 1/8 of a second after the jab hits, and not thinking about blocking. This also works with throwing people out of specials, since you are going into block frames, even if you're jab misses or the throw doesn't happen, you still block. I actually started doing this against the CPU trying to find ways to beat them other than the AI breaks, whenever I couldn't find someone to play against. It's a very interesting tactic.

If throwing requuires no skill, then preventing throws shouldn't either, and you shouldn't eliminate it from the game. You'll never play against me with no throws. The guys at University Pinball always asked me to play without throws, then they would complain, and one guy went "Man, they from New York, that's what they do, they throw ya." lol it was funny, we're not even from New York :clap:

Matt

[Lex]

and new york got fucking destroyed.

that is all.

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

Also, when people run in to combo, I will often kara jab now, something I had been working on with the teleporters, and Lex had mentioned it to me as well sometime after that, I didn't think of a term for it, but he calls it Kara jabbing, where you jab and cancel with block, or a special even without the full intention of hitting, this way you're not throwing out a flurry of punches, it's just one well timed jab that stops them in their tracks because they are timing to attack about 1/8 of a second after the jab hits, and not thinking about blocking. This also works with throwing people out of specials, since you are going into block frames, even if you're jab misses or the throw doesn't happen, you still block. I actually started doing this against the CPU trying to find ways to beat them other than the AI breaks, whenever I couldn't find someone to play against. It's a very interesting tactic.

But that is basic stuff...and even so I have not seen it in any US match to date.

Even with the description, I still don't get the disabling of throws. I mean, you are saying you guys turn it off because of the effect it has on gameplay, so you admit it has a big effect. That big effect is part of the game and when you turn it off you play a different game, an easier one because an element is eliminated. Its very similar to someone turning off autocombos because they are easy damage, or turning on unlimited run because it increases how cool a juggle can look or whatever other excuse is created to avoid actually playing the game in its entirety.

GosBroDansFan, tomorrow we will record a lot of fights with the throwing encouraged mode, I will try to encode them and send them to Matt if that is Ok with him for you people.

Thx for posting everyone

[tchrlee]

Where can I get in a few good games of UMK3 in the Chicago area? Diversions has a machine, but of course it's broken. I just want to see if I can get back into this game.


TeacherLee

[MOE_30W]

Where can I get in a few good games of UMK3 in the Chicago area? Diversions has a machine, but of course it's broken. I just want to see if I can get back into this game.


TeacherLee



Nickle city when Lex brings his jamma up there. Also I heard Dennis' place on Belmont has a machine. Or you could play online via kaillera lag is an issue not as smooth as wavenet =\.


Moe