CVS2:Benimaru thread

[YMDSLTSAC]

My new team R2 Kyo, R2 Benimaru.

Soooo, post your shit.

I'm pretty adept with him in KOF but could use some polishing in CVS2.

[extraguy]

Benimaru random stuff

Grooves (imo)- N/A/C/K/A/S

BNB: c lk x3, qcf+hk (then if you have fast reflexes do d,u+k)

Do alot of Kougan Corridor (hcb, f + p) and electiggers (hcb, hcb + p). Use this like you would yamazaki's super and special throws.
especially turtling bastards.

use Iai Geri (qcf + k) to beat cammy's cannon spikes and stuff it really stuffs her moves.

main pokes c lk, ck mk, f + mk, s hk, drill kick (really good recovery)

anti airs- people say that his DP K really needs to be rc for it to be a good AA but it does do the job for me most of the time. i havent really check this out yet. if you feel that dp k sucks just use his jump hp. its really good as a air to air move and AA.

this is my main super combo c lk x2, c mk, deni spark (qcf, qcf + k) this combo is really stylish hehe :). try to use this in a match it is really easy, if not just cmk in super.

ill post more stuff later.........

[ben]

I dunno about anti-air CCs but here's the standard ground CC I use:

activate, f+mk, f+fp x n, qcf x 2 p

its great for close to mid-range and it owns fireballs for free.

[KimMaster]

Originally posted by ben
I dunno about anti-air CCs but here's the standard ground CC I use:

activate, f+mk, f+fp x n, qcf x 2 p

its great for close to mid-range and it owns fireballs for free.

Anti Air CC:
DP + HK, whiff s.lk, [sj. hp x2]x3, [sj.hpx3]xN, qcf, qcf + k.

found it off gunter's site... etc.

[X Japan]

i can't give you anything because Capcom watered him down and all my good combos with him is in King of Fighters.sorry

[knives]

Originally posted by X Japan
i can't give you anything because Capcom watered him down and all my good combos with him is in King of Fighters.sorry

then don't post at all

[Shouta]

His DP+K is actually good for preventing cross ups since the lighting is his hitbox (IIRC) I used it to prevent that.

Benimaru's fairly good in this game, his rushing game is a lot better then in KoF games IMO. s.lp s.lk qcf+hk ud+k is a fairly good combo to use. I still haven't figured out how to link that fugly Lighting fist of his though from a combo. =P

[GalzPanic]

his dp+roundhouse is good, but it has to be pretty deep. It won't always beat hi priority air attacks if u do it early.

He's good in A-groove, except for his high jump.

He's my ghetto Sagat counter.

[Kyo Kusanagi]

Sometimes, the best CCs are the ones you mess up. If you attempt a ground CC and they block it, punish them with repeated Shinkuu Katategoma(hcb+K) until your meter runs low; ending it with a Raikou Ken(2xqcf+P). It does about 90% guard damage and about 4000 chip damage.

[YMDSLTSAC]

Yeah Mr.Nikaido can hold his own very well in CVS2. Capcom just toned him down to avert the gay. Things like his nigh zero-recovery, multi-hitting shinkuu katategoma. Besides they gave him a rush super which rounds him out quite nicely.

Some shit you guys probably already know but I'll post anyways:

Cr.mk stuffs the infamous Cr.hp.

His grab super is instantaneous which provides some nasty shit you can do as far as ticking and what not.

Aerially he can hold his own very well.

His anti-air Raikou-ken is almost useless.

His d in air +kick is very useful for jump mix-ups.

qcf+kick is a decent poke with priority and can even anti-air some jump-ins(from a distance)

[GalzPanic]

If you ever connect dp+p, do qcfqcf punch.

[nakedjackson]

why hasn't anyone posted cr.mp -> qcf lp. It links and if they block, you can follow fairly safely with qcf+kick or dp +kick if they try to jump. Then you can start all over again. They will start to turtle, then you can command throw or super command throw.


Also i found that jumping back and doing a quick down+roundhouse looks weird and will mix up your opponent. They'll think youre retreating but you come right back.
Also, DP+short is fairly safe. I use it alot.

[rallykupo]

I like to pick gimmick teams every now and again like team swords, bigboy, funny run - morrigan, honda, and dhashlim, and my favorite, sexually confused. I pick Benimaru as a ratio 2 in my team sexually confused along with vice and vega or eagle. But i only do it for fun, i usually lose with these gimmick teams.

Well, thats about all i have to say about Benimaru.

[haduken111]

try ending his ground CC with f+mk, hcb x 2 + P

[mr fuck]

the opp in the corner jumpin fk crouching fp level 3 raikou to the level 1 it takes alot have to be on s or n groove

[Eternal Blue]

roll xx throw super. his roll has 3 frame recovery (best in the game). punish blanka balls with > + forward. his j. short ownz lotta characters in air and on ground (blanka anyone and vega anyone?). also remember that his dp is kick ass and does not need to be RC'ed 95% of the time. If done deep, it trades very rarely with a jumping. Its also good on ground. I dunno what fools keep talking about when they say its not good. RC is overrated. Just like CVS1 Nak.

[nakedjackson]

Are you talking about DP+kick?

[Eternal Blue]

Originally posted by nakedjackson
Are you talking about DP+kick?

yes...its a good AA..

[SUTRCANE]

Roll xx super grab................
what a great strategy

[nakedjackson]

I agree about dp+kick. Its a great anti-air. I mainly use the short because of the great recovery. Dp+kick in combination with qcf+p and qcf+kick make for a great zoning game.

[jchensor]

I use Benimaru a lot, actually. He's a mainstay on my A-Groove team. Anti-air Custom has already been mentioned, but one thing about the Ground Custom: if you do Towards + Forward into Standing Fierces, it'll whiff against Crouching Opponents. ALWAYS start off the Custom with Crouch Short into Fireball + Short into Towards + Forward into Fierces. The knee will make Crouching enemies stand-up upon contact, so this will be guaranteed.

Learn the timing of his Towards + Forward Kick. Do NOT use it as offense, use it as a reaction. If enemy tries to attack but whiffs, throw it out, for example. Use it only as offense when you know the opponent is scared and not sticking moves out. Then, after the enemy blocks it, follow-up with Crouching Short into QCF + Short. Both characters recover mostly at the same time, though Benimaru may recover just 1 frame earlier. Because if you learn this timing, MOST opponents will fall for it and get nailed by the two-hit Combo. And if they start Blocking, do a Crouch Short, then ANOTHER Towards + Forward Kick. They'll be expected the two-hit Combo, but you do that instead for pressure. An alternate follow-up is to Jump straight up and do Down + Roundhouse. Just for mix-up's sake.

But put two and two together! After Towards + Forward kick, if your enemy just HAS to try to attack you afterwards, activate CC and do the BNB Custom Combo (end the Stand Fierce barrage with Towards + Forward into the Elec-Trigger. Just be careful NOT to mash Fierce too fast, or you'll push Benimaru too far away. Do it with a rhythm).

Anti-air is a Jumping Fierce if you can predict their Jump. It's really fast and can sometimes be used as reaction. Jump towards them with Fierce and when you land, grab them with a Benimaru Collider or Elec-Trigger. And if they catch on, just greet them with Crouching Shorts when they land and do Crouching Short x 3 into Fireball + Short. At this distance, though, you can't tack on the D, U + Kick.

I don't really play Benimaru much outside of A-Groove. I think, without a doubt, it's his best Groove because his Customs are really good... 300% better than his Supers, IMO. Anti-Air Custom is really good, too. And he still has his Level 1's for the Elec-Trigger, which is good enough (can't jump out of it on reaction like you can against Level 1's from Maki and Yamazaki). Running and Low Jump don't bring much to the table for Benimaru, since he isn't that good at Rushdown and his Low Jump is still higher than most people's normal jumps. ^_^

- James

[nakedjackson]

While Benimaru kicks a whole lotta ass in A groove, and while A groove might even be his strongest, i wouldnt completely take away from N. The cr.jab-> cr.mk->qcf qcf K (qcf qcf + P also combos in as well, slightly harder to do, but slightly more damage) is a great combo and level 3's take away a good chunk o life. Also, the roll into lv 3 throw super, while risky, is my personal favorite for punishing projectiles or other things.

[rallykupo]

Benimaru is sexually confused and so is anyone who choses to use him.

Homophobe to the core baby.

[jchensor]

Originally posted by rallykupo
Benimaru is sexually confused and so is anyone who choses to use him.

Homophobe to the core baby.

Actually, those who accuse others of being sexually confused are the ones who are usually sexually confused themselves and try to pin it on other people.

...

Please try to add to the main discussion, or don't post. Create a "People who use Benimaru are gay!" thread in the general discussions forums or something.

- James

[nakedjackson]

i'd hate to post off topic but homophobes are usually homosexuals in denial. Besides, one gets double the satisfaction when one kicks a shotos ass with a sexually confused blonde haired demon.

[rallykupo]

i turned the benimaru thread into a homo thread, cool.

Anyways to get back on topic, i like benimaru in a groove if I use him, but that would be never anyways.

[mr fuck]

HOMO HE'S NOT GAY VEGA IS THE GAY ONE:lol: :lol:

[Ghettoontherise]

The only thing I use that hasn't been mentioned is his sweep in to level 3 flash super (qcf * 2 punch). Good if you zone with Benimaru, and find an chance to sweep your opponent.

[nakedjackson]

Wow. Thats kickass. Its a little harder to do than cr.mk->qcfqcf+k. The timing has to be more exact. But it looks way better.

Whats your zoning game?

[mr fuck]

WHAT ARE HE'S GOOD RUSH DOWNS

[Gunter]

When I play Benimaru, I like to use his c.forward and his j.short a lot. The c.forward is an excellent poke, with good range and speed. The j.short is just great for crossups... and it leads to his c.short x3, front kick combo. I also use straight up j.roundhouse as a modified poke, as well as take off roundhouse. If they don't jump when I do a take off roundhouse, I land with a kick DP. Even I am surprised at how often that DP hits.

Also, one other use for the twd.forward that I don't think anyone has mentioned is to move in close after a knockdown. That's how I use it most of the time... outside of CCs that is. My main CC is the one I put in my 2nd Anti-Air CCs video - DP+rh-DP+fierce-twd.forward, DP+rh-twd.forward, DP+rh-roll, DP+rh-whiff c.short, [j.fierce x3]x2, FB+fierce, qctx2+P. My other CCs I put in the Benimaru video on my site.

[nakedjackson]

I was playing a pretty good haohmaru yesterday, and kept getting my ass beat because he was poking and it was near impossible for me to get in close. Then i started doing the roll into throw super, and that turned out to be EXTREMELY effective for non stop poke characters, as they usually don't throw you out of the roll since theyre too busy poking. Does anyone else know how to get thru a good poker like haohmaru or hibiki?

[Gunter]

Originally posted by nakedjackson
I was playing a pretty good haohmaru yesterday, and kept getting my ass beat because he was poking and it was near impossible for me to get in close. Then i started doing the roll into throw super, and that turned out to be EXTREMELY effective for non stop poke characters, as they usually don't throw you out of the roll since theyre too busy poking. Does anyone else know how to get thru a good poker like haohmaru or hibiki?

I've always said this, but rolling is part of a good footsie game. Rolling through pokes and countering is a very good tactic. It's rolling in for no good reason that gets you killed. I'm not sure about Hibiki, but against Haohmaru, I suggest sweeping and going for crossup combos. Also do j.short to throw super once in a while. Haohmaru doesn't really have a lot to him. The only thing you REALLY need to be worried about is his fierce, and if he whiffs that, you can retaliate pretty safely.

[cheese_master]

Maybe I was doing something wrong... but I remember my friend was beating Blanka straight up jump FP, w/ Beni's j straight up RH.

IMO this makes for some really annoying jumping straight up games for him. You can use j str up RH to create space... and when they try do something like suppose a Blanka slide as an AA... u can use j d RH to hit it... and then u have the mixup option of CC or command grab.

I don't really play Beni... just throwing in some possible tricks w/ him/

[Sodom]

I'm no Benimaru wizard, but I find it near impossible to play him now. I'm not sure if its actually inferior, but I find his command throw to be the hardest to land for me in CvS2. I used to use it as a main part of his game in CvS1 (right or wrong) and am helpless without it.

Any tips unique to Benimaru on his thorw?

[Eternal Blue]

Originally posted by Sodom
I'm no Benimaru wizard, but I find it near impossible to play him now. I'm not sure if its actually inferior, but I find his command throw to be the hardest to land for me in CvS2. I used to use it as a main part of his game in CvS1 (right or wrong) and am helpless without it.

Any tips unique to Benimaru on his thorw?

Having a 3-frame-recovery roll and a super throw makes Beni prime candidate for roll xx super. RS that shit. I'm not joking. That's the funny part.

[jchensor]

Landing Benimaru's Throw isn't hard at all, in fact it's probably one of the ones I land most often because people seem to forget he has a Special Throw.

But the things is, all my throws are prefaced by something else that has given enemy the reason to pause. Like I'll do a Jumping Fierce anti-air, land with the enemy and go into Crouching short x 3 into Fireball + Short. Since they tried something when they landed, they'll get nailed. Next time, I'll Jumping Fierce them out of the air, I'll let them land and then Throw them instead. Granted, this isn't 100%... there are some people who NEVER learn and try something every single darn time!!! Grrrgrhgrhgh. But I'm not bitter. ^_^

In any case, landing Throws with Benimaru really does need to have mind games prefacing it. Meaty Crouch Shorts when they get up, then do one Crouch Short into Throw next time. After a Jumping Down + Roundhouse perfectly distanced, the Throw can grab REALLY fast (if you land too far away, though it'll miss. Otherwise, Down + Roundhouse from the air causes such little Block Stun that you can grab almost the instant you land).

You can even go to an enemy getting up, throw out a Crouching Short BEFORE they get up, let them get up and THEN grab them. But do this only to people you've discouraged from doing wake-ups.

All of these places (especially just letting the enemy get up and just straight out grabbing them) also work with the Super Throw.

- James

[BrazilionBH]

Originally posted by jchensor
Landing Benimaru's Throw isn't hard at all, in fact it's probably one of the ones I land most often because people seem to forget he has a Special Throw.

But the things is, all my throws are prefaced by something else that has given enemy the reason to pause. Like I'll do a Jumping Fierce anti-air, land with the enemy and go into Crouching short x 3 into Fireball + Short. Since they tried something when they landed, they'll get nailed. Next time, I'll Jumping Fierce them out of the air, I'll let them land and then Throw them instead. Granted, this isn't 100%... there are some people who NEVER learn and try something every single darn time!!! Grrrgrhgrhgh. But I'm not bitter. ^_^

In any case, landing Throws with Benimaru really does need to have mind games prefacing it. Meaty Crouch Shorts when they get up, then do one Crouch Short into Throw next time. After a Jumping Down + Roundhouse perfectly distanced, the Throw can grab REALLY fast (if you land too far away, though it'll miss. Otherwise, Down + Roundhouse from the air causes such little Block Stun that you can grab almost the instant you land).

You can even go to an enemy getting up, throw out a Crouching Short BEFORE they get up, let them get up and THEN grab them. But do this only to people you've discouraged from doing wake-ups.

All of these places (especially just letting the enemy get up and just straight out grabbing them) also work with the Super Throw.

- James after being hit with his jump feirce I think the opponent can hit the ground and go for a throw and it will beat the low shrt.Ive had this happen.

[box]

if you ever go into the QCF+ K into D, U +K and it gets blocked, a follow up of DP+K will usually catch most people off guard.

Benimaru also has an Air throw which I find useful against K/P groove jump-ins every now and then.

Also walking shorts following by crouching forwards when you're out of range is a great pressure tactic.

[jchensor]

Originally posted by BrazilionBH
after being hit with his jump feirce I think the opponent can hit the ground and go for a throw and it will beat the low shrt.Ive had this happen.

Actually, only Zangief can do this with an SPD.

Throws have start up in CvS2. There's a certain amount of non-invincible frames beofre a Throw starts. So if you time the Crouch Short properly, they cannot THrow you. DP you? Yes. Throw? No.

UNLESS you are just mashing Short. They can definitely land in between kicks and Throw in time. But a well-times kick, the enemy can never throw.

The only way I will believe you can is if you play against Bison, let him Jumping Fierce you out of the air, land and do Crouch Roundhouse (Bison's slide). If you can Throw Bison out of that move (since no timing for Meaty-ness is necessary), then I will believe you can land and beat a Meaty attack with a Throw.

So far, only Zangief can do that. Not even Raiden can do it. Other Super Throws, maybe, but that's because they have invincibility frames. Oh, and Geese's Counters are also zero frame.

- James

[nakedjackson]

im sorry, but what is it that you mean by meaty?

[jchensor]

"Meaty" is a term I've never liked, truth be told, because it really doesn't sound like it's what it's supposed to describe. But I can't go and change history, and since it's part of the lingo now...

Maety is the term used to "plant" a move into an enemy when they are invincible so that right when they lose their invincibility, the first thing that happens is that they are being hit.

This transition from invincibility to non-invincibility is most commonly seen when the character gets up off the ground. While they are getting up, they are invincible. After they get up, they are ulnerable. At some point, they have to make that transition. If you have a move inside of them when they make that transition, that is a Meaty Attack.

Super Turbo has the best examples. M.Bison cannot combo two Crouching Forward Kicks normally, because they cannot Link. However, if you know the enemy over, and throw out a "Meaty" Crouching Forward, the enemy gets up INTO the kick, gets hit. But since they get hit by the later portion of the Crouching Forward's hittable period, it recovers sooner than normal, so now you CAN Combo another Crouching Forward. Lemme see if I can illustrate this:

Okay, the Crouching Forward Kick lasts this long:

|----------------------|

Every move has three parts: startup frames, hitting frames, and recovery frames. Let's indicates these by "+" (a start up frame), "X" (a hitting frame), and "." recovery frames. So Bison's Crouching Forward will look like this:

|----------------------|
+++XXXXXXX.......

Short startup, long hitting frames, fairly long recovery. Now, let's say if you hit an enemy with a Crouching forward, they reel for this long:

*0123456789*

I use numbers so we can see that it's the same length everytime. Now, let's see what happens if you use a NON Meaty Crouching Forward Kick and try to combo another crouching Forward Kick.

........*0123456789*
|----------------------| |----------------------|
. +++XXXXXXX.......... +++XXXXXXX.......

You hit the enemy first chance you get, but the enemy recovers before you can get off your second Forward Kick. Now, let's say you use a MEATY Crouching Forward Kick, and have your move in them when they get up. The instant the enemy gets up will be indicated by the "!" character.

...................!*0123456789*
|----------------------| |----------------------|
. +++XXXXXXX.......... +++XXXXXXX.......

They get up into the last few hitting frames of your move. They get hit by the Crouching Forward, but since it was already so late in it's animation, it recovers sooner and you can throw out another Crouching Forward before the enemy finishes reeling and catch them in time for a two-hit Combo.

Does that make sense what a "Meaty" attack is now? I kinda went in depth into it's uses, but it helps understand why Meaty Attacks are so valuable.

- James

[RagingStormX]

I don't use Beni, but I guess I'll put my 2 cents in. He's pretty good and his c.mk snuffs Sagats c.fp. His drill kick is pretty good and I heard he has two glitches ( correct me if I am wrong ) the first one I heard is his spinning break dance looking move instantly take you out of a roll. The second one I heard is if you hit him out of his grab super, if you hold the punch button when you release it his super will activate again. Remember I don't use him, I just heard about this.

[nakedjackson]

thanks james for the meaty explanation. Does anyone know anything about the glitches that were talked about in the last post?

[erco]

hey James, while we're on the subject of meaties (and off the subject of beni, sorry) I was wondering it you shuck out a meaty, let's say c.forward on a getting up opponent, can they DP it?

Never really knew, always wanted to find out.

[Version2]

Originally posted by erco
hey James, while we're on the subject of meaties (and off the subject of beni, sorry) I was wondering it you shuck out a meaty, let's say c.forward on a getting up opponent, can they DP it?

Never really knew, always wanted to find out.

i am not james. but i will answer. yes. it is called "reversal". Find pretty strange not no however.

[Fei-Leung]

you guys seem to be on the right track here with Beni, but i've found a few things here and there to add....

if timed right, Beni can link 2 of his SuperPunches together but they both must be level 1s ! especially useful for S users cause if you're lowhealth, it's free!

also, NOT ONCE have i seen someone mention his cheezy blockdamage tactic.....if your opponent is pretty damn low on health, 5lines or so, just jump in or when he's rising, do his hcb+RK move to do some MAJOR block damage! and if you know he's close to death, he won't be able to counter. This move can also be cancelled by pressing all Kicks! I've killed many with this thing, just be weary of P and K users!

later y'all

[jchensor]

Originally posted by erco
hey James, while we're on the subject of meaties (and off the subject of beni, sorry) I was wondering it you shuck out a meaty, let's say c.forward on a getting up opponent, can they DP it?

Never really knew, always wanted to find out.

I'll expand on this a bit, since the answer isn't as easy as yes or no.

It depends on the move and WHICH VERSION of the move.

I already ran through an entire day of experimentation with this, but I don't recall it all, now. It all depends on whether your move is invincible in the proper areas. For example, I am pretty sure a Jab DP from Ryu will get stuffed by a Meaty low attack, but a Fierce one will win. Or something like that. Most DP moves have invincibility high, low, or both. Or none. And if your DP move happens to be invincible in the area your opponent is sticking their Meaty Attack in you, yes, you'll win.

Yuri, for example, is only invincible high with her Strong DP (thus being her only good anti-air DP). So if someone tries a Meaty Jump attack, use the Strong DP. Sakura's DPs have no invincibility, so they can't be used at all for any anti-Meaty attacks. Meanwhile, I think Camm'ys DP in invincible high and low (on their first frame) with any button, so any version will work against any Meaty (she leaves her invincibility in the second frame, though, so I have seen her DP get beat by Sweeps). It really depends on your character, and what their versions of their DP-like moves can do.

- James

[GalzPanic]

Originally posted by Fei-Leung

also, NOT ONCE have i seen someone mention his cheezy blockdamage tactic.....if your opponent is pretty damn low on health, 5lines or so, just jump in or when he's rising, do his hcb+RK move to do some MAJOR block damage! and if you know he's close to death, he won't be able to counter. This move can also be cancelled by pressing all Kicks! I've killed many with this thing, just be weary of P and K users!

later y'all

WOW, I didn't know you could cancel it! WOW, I'm trying this tomorrow

[jchensor]

Originally posted by GalzPanic


WOW, I didn't know you could cancel it! WOW, I'm trying this tomorrow

There is almost no ponit to the cancel. HIs delay is just as long even if you cancel it (it just makes him skip the rest of his spinning and he just stops with the same delay). Any good player will be able to react in time to Combo you anyhow. Might as well get in the Block Damage taht you can. It only seems to be useful to cancel if it HITS (fancy that) so you can recover sooner and be ready to attack the enemy when they get up. But this move is never actually used in Combos anyhow, so, again, no real point.

- James

[Gunter]

Originally posted by jchensor

this move is never actually used in Combos anyhow, so, again, no real point.

- James

True. But it should be. When you're cornered, you can combo c.short, c.strong XX hcb+rh for a 3 hit combo that ends up with THEM being cornered...

[halcyonryu]

I was under the impression that beni's basic bread and butter was low short, low strong, hcb+k. That link is really easy, and it does more damage than his shortx3, iaigeri. It also knocks down.

[jchensor]

Originally posted by halcyonryu
I was under the impression that beni's basic bread and butter was low short, low strong, hcb+k. That link is really easy, and it does more damage than his shortx3, iaigeri. It also knocks down.

It's better in all those regards, but if the enemy is Blocking, it leaves you in a situation where you aren't sure where to go. Crouch Short, Crouch Strong... Stop. Not the best thing in terms of positional advantage.

Crouch Short x 3 into the Iageri Kick is fairly versatile, because his Crouch Short can lead into lots of things. If they are getting hit, you'll do your damage, and it leaves you in a position that you should be in: a bit away from the opponent (his optimal range). If the enemy is Blocking, you can do chip damage and still end up in your optimum range. You can do just three of them, stop, and follow up with a Towards + Forward Kick. It's harder to see coming than Crouch Short, Crouch Strong, Towards + Forward. Why? Becase the enemy expects nothing after the Crouch Strong. The enemy may expect a Iageri Kick, but you choose not to and go back in for the attack. Crouch Short x 3 can lead into his Super in a much easier fashion (easier to make sure if you are indeed connecting). If the enemy is Blocking, you'll have plenty of time to react properly and not use the Super (which, actually, for me isn't an issue 'cause I always use Beni in A-Groove). And lastly, one Crouch Short leads into a Super Throw. But that trick works with the other Combo as well, so that's a moot point.

The most practical location for the Crouch Short, Crouch Strong into Shinkuu Tatategoma would be in situations where you KNOW the enemy is vulnerable (like after a missed DP), but I tend to use the Iageri into the Follow up in those situations. So, yeah, I personally don't use HCB + Kick much at all... But if suits you well to use it, I can't argue the other way. Just giving my reasons for not using it much.

- James