CvS2: The Turtle Thread

[Slªde]

This is not an anti-turtle thread. This thread is here to promote turtling. It would be nice to see this take off with real turtle strategies and so on.


So, what are your favorite grooves and characters for turtling?


Any funny stories? Anything notable to say about turtling that is pro turtle? Do you think extreme turtling is a viable tactic in this game?


lets get this thing rolling......... :evil:

[Ubersaurus]

Honda is the turtle god. I don't turtle with many characters, but with him, its just too effective to not do.

The trick to turtling is to be patient really. Make them bring the fight to you. Only problem with turtling is really good rushdown can usually break it. That essentially forces you to try to rush them down.

[emperor]

Honda is? shit i didnt know that, i usally go on the offensive...
Ken is a good turtle i think, wait, let opponent jump in. Dp thats it.

[Gouki-Worshiper]

I use P groove so turtle all you want, haha. your anti-airs become nothing so I get free cross-ups and jump ins, yay. :)

[GeekBoy]

In terms of turtling, Yamazaki and Honda are WAYYYY good at turtling. Honda can just RC headbutt shit and Yama can do like QCB+K to build meter and just pounce when it's right.

[Rei]

If there is anything that I learned from watching the excellent games at evo, it is this:

Learn the turtle. Learn how to do it, learn how to break it, and learn to use it when most effective.

Most of the top players used turtle at some point in the game.

My favorite turtle was the japanese ryu that would get in real close range and start shooting out roll-canceled fireballs in a very quick sequence to run the clock down. There was also a blanka turtle that did about the same thing by RCing the electricity in short bursts. His opponent was in the corner taking chip damage, and couldn't do anything but block (or get hit) while the time ran out.

[Thaininja]

Originally posted by emperor
Honda is? shit i didnt know that, i usally go on the offensive...
Ken is a good turtle i think, wait, let opponent jump in. Dp thats it.

thats stupid....so what if they dont jump?your whole ken turtle is ruined.....

[Gouki-Worshiper]

how would you roll cancel the electricity?

[Murakumo]

Roll your fingers across... lp,mp,hp,lp+lk,hp you come out with a roll cancelled hp electric. (takes five punch imputs... makes sure it's lp+lk second to last)

~Murakumo

[emperor]

quote:
thats stupid....so what if they dont jump?your whole ken turtle is ruined.....


LOL how many losers did u fight kid, Every one jumps to try too kill you as fast as possible.. Before you open your mouth, Get some skills then Talk to me. By the way a turtle has to wait for the person to attack right, if they dont jump then you dont do anything but charge your meter away from them. Shit like i said Get your mind right then you can reply to what i said.:lame:

[Murakumo]

d00d, emporer, if people are ONLY jumping in on you, and don't learn after one, at max two dragon punches, not to jump in, then those are the loser players that you're playing. You need something viable for each situation vs. a character.

Example, turle Honda vs. Iori... charge d/b. If Iori jumps in, f+lp for the weak headbut (the perfect anti air). If he rolls in, throw him. If he throws a fireball, f+hp to sail over and nail him with a fierce headbutt. And if he walks/runs up, c.mp is very good and offers little risk at such a time. If you REALLY expect people to just jump at you all day... then either you're delusional or they are the worst players I've ever seen.


~Murakumo

[WYLDFYRE]

honda can turtle, but only against some players. i think he would have trouble against a turtling shoto, anyone with a mid range fireball, or some one with a double reppuken. those are the fireballs that he cant sail over. now, if he rc'ed the headbutt, then thats completely different. an rc'ing honda, or turtler, is dangerous. even though i hate them, its effective, and it wins. just wish i could rc on command.

[emperor]

Quote:If he rolls in, throw him. If he throws a fireball, f+hp to sail over and nail him with a fierce headbutt.

I understand the sailing over iroi ground wave with a fierce headbuttt, thats pretty simple to know but when you said if he rolls throw him, what if the opponent knows how to roll cancel into a super not once but two or more times... But whats the chance of that happening huh? But i was waitng on what that kid who flamed me first was gonna say whats his face muay ninja some shit like that. I wanna see what he says since my comment was so stupid.

then either you're delusional or they are the worst players I've ever seen.
How can you know what ppl i played if you have you have NEVer seen them before... Last time i checked you were not God or anything of that nature. I dont know where you play but the ppl in Chinatown fair Ny have some of the best players in Ny maybe around the country , like i said before kid if u wanna defend someone defend your self. THe delusional part makes no sense, if i was crazy... 1 i would not be typing to you right not cause i would be in a straight jacket with tape over my mouth or a muzzle ,2 i would not be playin CvS2 cause i would try to bite people and piss on the buttons.
Lol you know im just joking right...

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by Gouki-Worshiper
I use P groove so turtle all you want, haha. your anti-airs become nothing so I get free cross-ups and jump ins, yay. :)

That's actually kinda funny. I play P Groove and my turtling is annoying as shit. My P Rock is the the most annoying turtle.

My friend gets pissed off when he'll play a K Sagat and get MAX, then I just play turtle/runaway because he can't do anything about it.

[Gouki-Worshiper]

heh yeah. the most annoying thing in the game is when someone just sits there and plays a good runaway game. and P turtles are extra mean because they can stop any jump-in attempts.

[bison812]

Originally posted by Gouki-Worshiper
heh yeah. the most annoying thing in the game is when someone just sits there and plays a good runaway game. and P turtles are extra mean because they can stop any jump-in attempts.


I def agree with that a p gorve turtler is pretty annoying to beat. You really want to piss some ppl off use R4 Gief in P grove and turtle and watch how much the game changes. A full bar and you turtel just dont jump in.

[Murakumo]

-Emporer...

When you roll cancel in this game it's from the first 3 frames of a roll. When you see a actual roll that is next to you, you can throw them the hell out of it... this is easy to do when you're turtling. If they've roll cancelled something, you don't get a roll animation, just the invincibility string. And if they didn't roll close enough for you to throw them, you can still c.mp into hp hundred hand slap (yes this combos if you know how to do it right) at the end when they still have vulnerable frames before they can attack. If you really want to know how all the rolling works, read Chensor's full guide to all this stuff. Point being, if you can see the roll animation, you can throw them out of it.

BTW, roll cancelled super combo doesn't take on the invincibility properties of the roll either if that's what you were trying to get at. It stops the invincibility string that the game was still keeping track of (why the specials RC'ed maintain invincibility).

And I don't care who you play with, if somebody jump in... and gets hit... and jumps in... and gets hit... etc, and never adapts trying to NOT get hit, which would mean NOT jumping in, then they're friggin stupid because any old scrub who an ground-touching AAA move could beat them. The way for them around this jumping in is a just defense or more effectively, a parry... but in such a case you wouldn't be nailing them then, huh?

AND, if by super you meant Iori roll cancelling his fireball (a special), then here's the other part. The invincibility follows a seperate string in the game than the move which you are performing. The invincibility in that move lasts just as long as the invincibility from the roll would. It should be over by the time you hit him. And if he is still invincible by the time your headbutt reaches him... you just sail right through, not just sitting next to him for a free shot.


~Murakumo

[Reza-O]

I think another good turtle strat is faking. You make it look like you are going to do something when in fact you are doing something else to make them counter in a way they would if you had done it.

Simple Example:

You're playing Ryu or Ken. Do a fireball motion and press short of example. This may make your opponent think you are doing a fireball, when in fact you pressed short and no fireball will come out. He may jump. In which case you can punish him for jumping since you are prepared and laughing.

Anyways you guys are covering most other areas, this is the only thing I didn't see that's a useful turtle tactic.

Hope that helped :lol:

[Gouki-Worshiper]

heh, yeah. thats old school dude. its called baiting. been around forever

[Reza-O]

Hehe.. Yes it is old school tactics. It wasn't mentioned in the post, so I added it :D

[PROFESSORLESTER]

A much beter thread


http://shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3121

[Dasrik]

The tactics described on this thread aren't turtling, they're just smart playing. People who complain about turtling are really saying "You suck for not running into all my attacks".

[Mr-K]

Originally posted by Dasrik
The tactics described on this thread aren't turtling, they're just smart playing. People who complain about turtling are really saying "You suck for not running into all my attacks".

You know what .. I totally agree with you. But then I'm a "smart" player. Smart player sounds so much better than turtling piece of shit.

[J-ride]

PREPARE TO BE THROWN TURTLES! BWHAHAHAHAHA YOU CAN BLOCK BUT YOU ARE STILL GOING TO DIE!

[Mummy-B]

Nothing beats getting someone down less life than you in critical S Groove, then continuously doing Valkyrie Turn for the rest of the match until time runs out.

That is ridiculous. I love it. (Hasn't been done to ME yet but once)

[Simon Adebisi]

I teleport and run away with A-Bison, until I get meter. Then I RTSD......

[Rolling Start]

Mummy:

Yup, that shit IS hella annoying. Ditto Buster Wolfs, carefully placed Balrog supers mixed with dodges, Todo super wave. Obviously, be smart and know when to do something else, but S-Groove iz dope.

S-Terry is sick.

S-Balrog is sickest, IMO. After Gief, anyway...

[Thaininja]

Originally posted by emperor
Honda is? shit i didnt know that, i usally go on the offensive...
Ken is a good turtle i think, wait, let opponent jump in. Dp thats it.

err that doesn't work....what if the oppoent doesn't jump, your plan is ruined....

[Thaininja]

Originally posted by emperor
quote:
thats stupid....so what if they dont jump?your whole ken turtle is ruined.....


LOL how many losers did u fight kid, Every one jumps to try too kill you as fast as possible.. Before you open your mouth, Get some skills then Talk to me. By the way a turtle has to wait for the person to attack right, if they dont jump then you dont do anything but charge your meter away from them. Shit like i said Get your mind right then you can reply to what i said.:lame:

man this thread is so old, i replied to it twice with the same answer anyway....if you dragon punch, i'll JD land on the ground before you and if i'm joe with a meter DOUBLE CYCLONE

OR i can run at you stop close....what are you going to do? if i short jump i dont think you would be fast enough to react and if you want to do a psychic dp i could just fake, or i could do a close fireball at you...unless your psychic you will block it....turtle is so easily stopped, to many people use it or maybe to many bad players use it....

and guard crush to a super...

[Thaininja]

Originally posted by Reza-O
I think another good turtle strat is faking. You make it look like you are going to do something when in fact you are doing something else to make them counter in a way they would if you had done it.

Simple Example:

You're playing Ryu or Ken. Do a fireball motion and press short of example. This may make your opponent think you are doing a fireball, when in fact you pressed short and no fireball will come out. He may jump. In which case you can punish him for jumping since you are prepared and laughing.

Anyways you guys are covering most other areas, this is the only thing I didn't see that's a useful turtle tactic.

Hope that helped :lol:

? i think i know what your talkin about, some people play by ear and they can hear the fireball motion but my arm and stick motion isn't that obvious....i know some people who move the elbows or whatever i do small wrist movement....

[SaiYuk]

Originally posted by emperor
quote:
thats stupid....so what if they dont jump?your whole ken turtle is ruined.....


LOL how many losers did u fight kid, Every one jumps to try too kill you as fast as possible.. Before you open your mouth, Get some skills then Talk to me. By the way a turtle has to wait for the person to attack right, if they dont jump then you dont do anything but charge your meter away from them. Shit like i said Get your mind right then you can reply to what i said.:lame:

not meaning to flame, but actually thaininja is right...
you don't NEED to jump in to initial attacks in this game.. and with some characters it's even possible to win games without jumping at all almost.. my cammy hardly jumps but it beats people.
it's not old school street fighter anymore, where you do the jump in HK, crouch HK sweep stuff all the time (maybe there are other offensive initialization in SF2 too, but i was newbieish then and didnt know). at least for cvs2 there's run, dash, roll, all of which allow you to get in and initiate attacks without jumping.

[SaiYuk]

i used to hate turtles but now i think it's a completely good strategy. not that i think it can win you all the games, because ultimately we know the top few players in the world are rushdown players, but turtling is a great strat as well.

why hate on turtles? if your opponent is turtling, and you've been trying to break it and you failed, in the worst case just turtle back. he sits there and wait, you can sit there and wait too. most of the time eventually they'll start to do something to attack. then you can do your counters. if they are those stubborn turtles who just sit there and are determined to do nothing as they have more health, well you can always lure them. in tons of ways, depending on situations.

[SaiYuk]

as for those who claim turtling being not fun?
well, i've got one thing to say about that...

Don't play to play. Play to win.

tell me if you dont get that...

[The Chief]

Definition for Turtleing:

Attacking only when you have a sure hit.

[Dasrik]

Originally posted by SaiYuk
it's not old school street fighter anymore, where you do the jump in HK, crouch HK sweep stuff all the time (maybe there are other offensive initialization in SF2 too, but i was newbieish then and didnt know).:wtf:

Didn't you know? Old school SF is "Don't Jump: The Game".

You don't jump unless you have to. Otherwise, any good character will respond with anti-air of choice.

[Eternal Blue]

Originally posted by Dasrik
:wtf:

Didn't you know? Old school SF is "Don't Jump: The Game".

You don't jump unless you have to. Otherwise, any good character will respond with anti-air of choice.

Exactly dude. I didn't jump at all in OG SF. It was like lesson #1 my friend taught me. But then I started play C-groove CVS2, MVC2, and 3S and my "no-jump" rule went to hell...SO SAD!

[Thaininja]

I never jump, only short jump and when i do jump, its always empty cause i'm ready to JD but my JD can sort of fail me when i'm near the ground and near the oppoent cause ic ant' react that fast....

[Orochi Pickle]

when i jump it is in only special cases. sometimes it is good to jump people should know that jumping isn't bad it is just when you become predictable about it and then you start to relay your message that is when it gets bad. An extremely offensive person will jump a lot. when i play Alex valle (i lose really bad) but besides that he jumps a good amount more low then high but he isn't afraid of jumping cause he knows when to do it and that is what people need to do, know when to jump.

Jesus loves you all and is just a prayer away.:D

-Pickledude-

[HaohmaruOfWind]

Haohmaru C Groove.They try to fly kick me and I'll use my crouching hp(upper slash).

Sakura.They try fly kicking me and it's multi hit uppercut time for them.Same startegy used for sagat.

[erco]

Originally posted by HaohmaruOfWind
Haohmaru C Groove.They try to fly kick me and I'll use my crouching hp(upper slash).

Sakura.They try fly kicking me and it's multi hit uppercut time for them.Same startegy used for sagat.

wow, that was an intelligent post, thanks for the really useful info.

[Thaininja]

Originally posted by HaohmaruOfWind
Haohmaru C Groove.They try to fly kick me and I'll use my crouching hp(upper slash).

Sakura.They try fly kicking me and it's multi hit uppercut time for them.Same startegy used for sagat.

thats kinda obvious but Haohmaru's crouching fierce's anti air is to slow, i can rarely get people with that....i have to do the dragon punch motin.....

[Mummy-B]

Dude, Kogetsuzan has shitty ass priority. Your chances of AA with c.fp are MUCH better.

[Mr-K]

K Groove Turtling is just too good.

[heavenly king]

is this a good turtling team honda vega yama

[caliagent#3]

the only time i jump in is to crossup and when i'm playing p-groove.

[heavenly king]

is it the same way to roll cancell chang's spain ball and honda's hand slaps

[SaiYuk]

Originally posted by Mummy-B
Dude, Kogetsuzan has shitty ass priority. Your chances of AA with c.fp are MUCH better.

actually i'm pretty sure haohmaru's uppercut slash has invincible frames.... so if you do it when they are real deep, it's a pretty good anti air. but true priority-wise, crouching fierce is much better.

[Mummy-B]

Actually I think start up is where it is worst. Seriously, try it out. However, once he gets going and you start getting in his hitbox AFTER he starts the first few frames it starts anti-airing alright.

Correct me if I am wrong though, I may be. This is just from playing my friend a few times.

Originally posted by heavenly king
is it the same way to roll cancell chang's spain ball and honda's hand slaps


Yes, it is.

[IceBeast]

Good players never use turtling as their main strategy. No matter how much you try you defense will get broken in time.

Guard Crush - You'd be surprise how easy it is to guard crush a turtle.

Fast characters - Naku, Vega, Maki Rolento etc.... with any groove with a run can get behind your character before their anti airs come out.

Ticks and throw - Lol! If you fools think good players has to roll to get a throw.:lol:. They will run at you, tick and throw.

The only way Honda can effectively turtle is because of the invincibility frames of his lp headbutt. RC kinda gives that advantage to every chracter, but then again when the Japs RC, they are very offensive.

[Dangief]

Originally posted by Mummy-B
Actually I think start up is where it is worst. Seriously, try it out. However, once he gets going and you start getting in his hitbox AFTER he starts the first few frames it starts anti-airing alright.

Correct me if I am wrong though, I may be. This is just from playing my friend a few times.





You're right, Hoamaru's uppercut has NO invinciblity at all, but once he gets his sword going it has extremely high priority. His best anti air is usually standing forward, c.fierce is to slow most of the time.

[Gemeni Twins]

He sucks so bad, the only thing good about him is waiting until people throw a fireball and doing his level 3 super! Ok ok and his hair.

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by IceBeast
Good players never use turtling as their main strategy. No matter how much you try you defense will get broken in time.

Guard Crush - You'd be surprise how easy it is to guard crush a turtle.

Fast characters - Naku, Vega, Maki Rolento etc.... with any groove with a run can get behind your character before their anti airs come out.

Ticks and throw - Lol! If you fools think good players has to roll to get a throw.:lol:. They will run at you, tick and throw.

The only way Honda can effectively turtle is because of the invincibility frames of his lp headbutt. RC kinda gives that advantage to every chracter, but then again when the Japs RC, they are very offensive.

You are retarded.

[SaiYuk]

are you really sure it has no invincibility at startup??

because i remember when i was playing at home with friend they got me by wake-up-uppercut a few times (either when i crossup or am jabbing when they're down) with haohmaru. that's when i started to think it has invincibility.

can someone check to make sure.

[Mr-K]

Originally posted by IceBeast
Good players never use turtling as their main strategy. No matter how much you try you defense will get broken in time.

Guard Crush - You'd be surprise how easy it is to guard crush a turtle.

Fast characters - Naku, Vega, Maki Rolento etc.... with any groove with a run can get behind your character before their anti airs come out.

Ticks and throw - Lol! If you fools think good players has to roll to get a throw.:lol:. They will run at you, tick and throw.

The only way Honda can effectively turtle is because of the invincibility frames of his lp headbutt. RC kinda gives that advantage to every chracter, but then again when the Japs RC, they are very offensive.

Mummy-B was right when he said you are retarded. Just in case you didn't understand him .. YOU ARE RETARDED.

How long have you been playing cvs2? 1 day? Where do you live? In a cave?

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by SaiYuk
are you really sure it has no invincibility at startup??

because i remember when i was playing at home with friend they got me by wake-up-uppercut a few times (either when i crossup or am jabbing when they're down) with haohmaru. that's when i started to think it has invincibility.

can someone check to make sure.

I'm sure it has some invincibility, but I believe the problem is that the animation that starts registering hitbox on the move comes out so late that the invincibility ends before he actually hits you unless you're doing a move with considerable lag. Something real quick like Cammy's stand fk beats it clean on start up every time IIRC.

It's basically Rugal's Genocide Cutter.