-- Weightlifting & Nutrition Thread -- v9.0 Optimized

[Soldier Zero]

i just want to point out that the possibility of you becoming "huge" without doing steroids is almost none...

for the most part, the only way you are going to get "huge" is by doing steriods...so i wouldnt worry about getting huge...

im outi

Roberth

Depends, some people are just naturally big. My friend's really strict on what he does and he's 180 lbs. of all natural pure muscle. It's just you have to be determined to achieve your goal.

[MagnusMadness]

Depends, some people are just naturally big. My friend's really strict on what he does and he's 180 lbs. of all natural pure muscle. It's just you have to be determined to achieve your goal.


When me and Roberth think huge.....we are thinking 220+ shredded.....which is possible minus the steroids but would take a long time

[Soldier Zero]

When me and Roberth think huge.....we are thinking 220+ shredded.....which is possible minus the steroids but would take a long time

That's pretty beastly.

[denjin]

Which types of stretching do you guys do?

Stretch the group you just worked on?
Stretch the entire body?
Or...no stretching whatsoever?

[Kool-Aid Ryu]

Eating: Before or after a workout? Does it really matter?

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

Both are important, before to power your work out and after for recovery.

Edit:

Anybody have any recipes or tips to improve certain foods?

Oatmeal
Chicken Breasts


Just started cutting.. lifting three times a week, interval training once a week..I'm around 14% bodyfat, aiming for around 7% by august. Keeping diet pretty clean.. so far.

Oatmeal
Brown rice
Brown bread
Broccoli
Chicken breast
Salmon
Tuna
Whey
Smoothies galore

I'm gonna start drinking some green tea... feeling so good eating healthy.. haven't cut calories yet, just eating healthy right now.

[Reidar]

Which types of stretching do you guys do?

Stretch the group you just worked on?
Stretch the entire body?
Or...no stretching whatsoever?

No stretching before or after lifting. Muscle fibers should be kept short during those periods. Stretching them elongates and reduces force output.

Dynamic stretching only before cardio. No static stretching.

I do static stretching for flexibility in the morning a little bit after breakfast.


Eating: Before or after a workout? Does it really matter?

Eat solid food around an hour to an hour and a half before you workout. After lifting, drink the whey protein shake with dextrose and maltodextrin.

After cardio, the nutritional demands aren't so specific. Just eat something with carbs and protein.

[HeaT]

When me and Roberth think huge.....we are thinking 220+ shredded.....which is possible minus the steroids but would take a long time

indeed, although i still think it is very unlikely lol...

im outi

Roberth

[thedude.com]

how to get shred quickly ?? especially the abs >_>

[denjin]

No stretching before or after lifting.

HOLY SHIT. That's CAN'T be right...right?

[Romie]

HOLY SHIT. That's CAN'T be right...right?

Warming up doing a set or two with light weight is better.

[Reidar]

HOLY SHIT. That's CAN'T be right...right?


Like Romie said, warming up for weightlifting is doing light sets. Stretching beforehand reduces force output because it elongates the muscle fibers, reducing the stored tension in them. Keep stretching and lifting seperated.

[MagnusMadness]

hard stretching post workout increases satelite cell proliferation. Or so I've read....

We stretch every client post workout as they probably will not stretch on their own time and certain muscles if too tight can cause pain or even injury (hamstrings) You don't stretch pre workout because as reidar said, it can kill strength...and can also increase the risk of injury by stretching cold ligaments and tendons before applying the rigorous stresses of weightlifting.


Anybody have any recipes or tips to improve certain foods?

Oatmeal
Chicken Breasts



Splenda in the oatmeal and just a lil salt and pepper on the chicken breast....this won't exactly be good or healthy but a little bbq sauce on the chicken breast is damned good....lol...or maybe marinate it in light italian dressing.

Question though...you say you haven't cut cals yet...are you eating anything besides what you listed?? Because if those are the only food items you're eating I can't imagine your caloric intake being very high at all....how many cals are you taking in now, and when you go to cut cals, how will you do this when you are already eating this clean? Just smaller portions? Or are you going to cut out a meal or two??

[bill_rizer]

dont you have to do some kind of weighted stretching, something to do with something around the muscles that stops it growing past a certain size.

I believe people that have gainned fat dont need to do this because that stuff around the muscles has already been stretched out.

I cant remember the name of this stuff, but it makes sense to me your body is going to have limits.

thedude for abs I do weighted crunches, the max amount I should be able to do each rep is 12 if your doing more the weight is not enough, of course each rep you will do less, Ive been doing this for a while and im starting to see results of course you need 12% body fat or less to see your abs.

My training is going well been going around 4months now gainned 20lbs and most of that is in muscle, I must be on the right track because I saw an old friend that noticed I gained weight, im aming for around 170-80 lbs.

Good luck to anyone trainning stick with it and you will get there in the end.

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

hard stretching post workout increases satelite cell proliferation. Or so I've read....

We stretch every client post workout as they probably will not stretch on their own time and certain muscles if too tight can cause pain or even injury (hamstrings) You don't stretch pre workout because as reidar said, it can kill strength...and can also increase the risk of injury by stretching cold ligaments and tendons before applying the rigorous stresses of weightlifting.



Splenda in the oatmeal and just a lil salt and pepper on the chicken breast....this won't exactly be good or healthy but a little bbq sauce on the chicken breast is damned good....lol...or maybe marinate it in light italian dressing.

Question though...you say you haven't cut cals yet...are you eating anything besides what you listed?? Because if those are the only food items you're eating I can't imagine your caloric intake being very high at all....how many cals are you taking in now, and when you go to cut cals, how will you do this when you are already eating this clean? Just smaller portions? Or are you going to cut out a meal or two??

Yeah, I was thinking i'll just make it smaller portions? I'm not exactly counting calories i'm just eating healthy.. using this menshealth magazine approach. Hmmm...

An example of a meal: just one chicken breast and some broccoli.. that shit gets me pretty full, i'm not used to eating tons of protein regularly. Except after intense work outs i'm hungry as a fucking pig... eat like 2.5 cups of brown rice and 2 chicken breasts lol..

I'm actualy 165 lbs. with 15% bodyfat.. 6'1.. not in too good shape right now but working on it. Because i'm actually sticking with a regmin for the first time i know i'll lose fat and gain muscle so i'm hoping to get around 8% fat by end of august.. maybe put on a few pounds of muscle.

Edit:

I'm going to start keeping exact track of weight and body fat percentage every week.. and keep a food journal. Let's see if i can do this..

[MagnusMadness]

Yeah, I was thinking i'll just make it smaller portions? I'm not exactly counting calories i'm just eating healthy.. using this menshealth magazine approach. Hmmm...

An example of a meal: just one chicken breast and some broccoli.. that shit gets me pretty full, i'm not used to eating tons of protein regularly. Except after intense work outs i'm hungry as a fucking pig... eat like 2.5 cups of brown rice and 2 chicken breasts lol..

I'm actualy 165 lbs. with 15% bodyfat.. 6'1.. not in too good shape right now but working on it. Because i'm actually sticking with a regmin for the first time i know i'll lose fat and gain muscle so i'm hoping to get around 8% fat by end of august.. maybe put on a few pounds of muscle.

Edit:

I'm going to start keeping exact track of weight and body fat percentage every week.. and keep a food journal. Let's see if i can do this..


How bout this...Just weigh in regularly and start counting your calories...if you make all your meals this won't be hard. If you don't start losing weight after two weeks of eating clean, then start dropping your cals but slowly....we're shooting for a pound or two a week in weight loss...gonna do it slow. Also don't be scared to do some cardio...work your way up to 20 minutes of cardio 3 times a week maybe 4. Stay moving in the gym so as to keep ur heart rate up and this will also help in your quest for fat loss.

Also cutting your body fat percentage in half at your height and weight is going to leave you looking rail-like. You're going to be 6'1 and around 145-150lbs. You MAY want to try building for a little before cutting...even though it is summer now. Whatever you want to do though, build then cut, cut then build. I used to weigh 140lbs@ 5'10 4 years ago and I never want to be that small again.

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

How bout this...Just weigh in regularly and start counting your calories...if you make all your meals this won't be hard. If you don't start losing weight after two weeks of eating clean, then start dropping your cals but slowly....we're shooting for a pound or two a week in weight loss...gonna do it slow. Also don't be scared to do some cardio...work your way up to 20 minutes of cardio 3 times a week maybe 4. Stay moving in the gym so as to keep ur heart rate up and this will also help in your quest for fat loss.

Also cutting your body fat percentage in half at your height and weight is going to leave you looking rail-like. You're going to be 6'1 and around 145-150lbs. You MAY want to try building for a little before cutting...even though it is summer now. Whatever you want to do though, build then cut, cut then build. I used to weigh 140lbs@ 5'10 4 years ago and I never want to be that small again.

Well because i'm a n00b i'm positive i'll build muscle plus i'm taking more protein then before plus a little bit of creatine as well. I'm doing interval training once a week BTW.. and I don't plan on cutting calories yet.. as you said, wait untiil i stop losing fat.

[MagnusMadness]

Well because i'm a n00b i'm positive i'll build muscle plus i'm taking more protein then before plus a little bit of creatine as well. I'm doing interval training once a week BTW.. and I don't plan on cutting calories yet.. as you said, wait untiil i stop losing fat.


Good luck with that. Cutting BF% in half in a month while building muscle is going to be tough, and will require a certain amount of precision in every aspect of bodybuilding and nutrition. You may have to up ur cals SLIGHTLY and try and hold ur bodyweight, hoping for a good body recomp.

What does your workout regimen look like??

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

Good luck with that. Cutting BF% in half in a month while building muscle is going to be tough, and will require a certain amount of precision in every aspect of bodybuilding and nutrition. You may have to up ur cals SLIGHTLY and try and hold ur bodyweight, hoping for a good body recomp.

What does your workout regimen look like??

2.5 months, it'll just be a learning experience.. and i start to eat clean finally.. after i just lose a bit of flab, i'll start bulking.
Edit:

i'll post up work out regimen soon

[MagnusMadness]

2.5 months, it'll just be a learning experience.. and i start to eat clean finally.. after i just lose a bit of flab, i'll start bulking.
Edit:

i'll post up work out regimen soon


Might I recommend full body routines 3x a week??

Mon: 3 sets of 10
Wed: 2 sets of 20
Fri: 5 sets of 5

Maybe after 6 weeks switch to upper/lower splits:

Upper
Lower
Off
Upper
Lower
Off
Off

Periodizing rep schemes on a weekly basis.

Week 1: 3 sets of 6-8 reps
Week 2: 3 sets of 8-12 reps
Week 3: 2 sets of 20
Repeat.

Change exercise selection after 3 cycles. Until then, keep exercises standard, recording reps completed and poundages, increasing resistance as necessary to remain within appropriate rep schemes.



indeed, although i still think it is very unlikely lol...

im outi

Roberth


Women are the worst about not lifting weights because they don't want to look like Arnold, like the shit will happen by accident...

[Soldier Zero]

What's negative about shrimp? I was looking at the back and it's got a good amount of protein, but just a bit high in cholestrol.

[MagnusMadness]

Was training a client this morning.....it was a young guy who's trying to lose some weight....we're doing full body routines 2x a week....Had to superset alot today here's what it looked like

DB Press/DB Rows superset
Military Press/ Lat pulls
Swiss Ball Squats/DB SLDL's
Swiss Ball Crunches/Leg Raises


I think I pushed him a little too hard....he was like "this was pretty intense for a first workout" I was like "oops" hahahaha

He wasn't really sweating profusely or terribly short of breath, so I kept him moving....shows what I know hahahahaha...

[hn2682]

Yeah, I was thinking i'll just make it smaller portions? I'm not exactly counting calories i'm just eating healthy.. using this menshealth magazine approach. Hmmm...




What is the mens health approach?? Is it listed online somewhere?

[Soldier Zero]

I think I pushed him a little too hard....he was like "this was pretty intense for a first workout" I was like "oops" hahahaha

lol at you replying with oops.

[adonis_minus_20]

I need some advice. I have been cutting since the beginning of this year, and have lost 65 lbs. to date. I'm now 170 lbs. I'm very happy with my results so far, but now it seems that I'm stalling.

My goal is to get down to around 8% - 12% bodyfat. I'm like 18% or so now. I lift 3x/week - Chest/Biceps & Abs, Back/Triceps & Abs, and Legs & Abs. I typically do around 2 - 3 hours of intense cardio per week as well (on my non-lifting days). I have seen some good results from the lifting, with some increase in size and definition.

My diet consists mainly of high protein/low fat foods, and I drink a protein shake after my lifting workouts. I probably take in anywhere from 1600 - 2000 calories per day, with protein being anywhere from 150g - 200g per day.

My question is how do I lose the rest of this bodyfat? There's not that much left, I would probably say another 10 lbs. should do it, but it's being very stubborn. I've been developing my abs with all the ab work I've been doing, but I would like to be able to see them more fully.

Thanks.

Jim

[MagnusMadness]

I need some advice. I have been cutting since the beginning of this year, and have lost 65 lbs. to date. I'm now 170 lbs. I'm very happy with my results so far, but now it seems that I'm stalling.

My goal is to get down to around 8% - 12% bodyfat. I'm like 18% or so now. I lift 3x/week - Chest/Biceps & Abs, Back/Triceps & Abs, and Legs & Abs. I typically do around 2 - 3 hours of intense cardio per week as well (on my non-lifting days). I have seen some good results from the lifting, with some increase in size and definition.

My diet consists mainly of high protein/low fat foods, and I drink a protein shake after my lifting workouts. I probably take in anywhere from 1600 - 2000 calories per day, with protein being anywhere from 150g - 200g per day.

My question is how do I lose the rest of this bodyfat? There's not that much left, I would probably say another 10 lbs. should do it, but it's being very stubborn. I've been developing my abs with all the ab work I've been doing, but I would like to be able to see them more fully.

Thanks.

Jim


You might try refeeds or carb loading days...By loading up on fast burning carbs once or twice a week you get your metabolism goin again. Other than that I would just say to be patient and take your time...it does get harder to lose weight as your bodyfat % gets lower and lower.

[maxx]

ok i need help. i dunno how to get a damn visible six-pack. i'm up to 450 crunches...this is getting crazy. heres my crunches/legs routine routine

100-straight crunches
50-leg lifts
100-alternating elbow to knee
50-legs 6 inches off the cround spread them and bring them together
100-bycles
50-ankle grabs
100-straight crunches

wait ok thats 550...great..ya that makes me feel even better i do all this and still no real visible crunches...like its kinda visible..but not where i need it to be for the summer.

any suggestions? if its diet i need specifics cause i dunno how to diet for shit.

[MagnusMadness]

ok i need help. i dunno how to get a damn visible six-pack. i'm up to 450 crunches...this is getting crazy. heres my crunches/legs routine routine

100-straight crunches
50-leg lifts
100-alternating elbow to knee
50-legs 6 inches off the cround spread them and bring them together
100-bycles
50-ankle grabs
100-straight crunches

wait ok thats 550...great..ya that makes me feel even better i do all this and still no real visible crunches...like its kinda visible..but not where i need it to be for the summer.

any suggestions? if its diet i need specifics cause i dunno how to diet for shit.

Yes it's diet and cardio....diet means eat healthy low calorie foods and often throughout the day... You gotta shed the fat that's covering your abs up....only then will they be visible.

[denjin]

Not sure if this'll help:

I've seen a lot of guys do the 25-pound-plate-on-chest style crunches.

Come to think of it, does this sort of thing even help?
I'm going to start doing that just so I can finish my crunches faster. I am not at the 550 crunches level, but it's enough that it's kind of irking.

How do I deal with increasing neck pain during crunches?

[MagnusMadness]

Not sure if this'll help:

I've seen a lot of guys do the 25-pound-plate-on-chest style crunches.

Come to think of it, does this sort of thing even help?
I'm going to start doing that just so I can finish my crunches faster. I am not at the 550 crunches level, but it's enough that it's kind of irking.

How do I deal with increasing neck pain during crunches?


Having visible abs is 51% diet, 48%cardio, and 1% ab work....if a person is sitting at around 18% bodyfat, there is no amount of crunches they can do to get a six pack. A person sitting at around 6-8% bodyfat will have abs regardless of if they even workout...

[maxx]

what kinds of things do i need to eat.

right now i'm 5'8 and weight around 140-45..ugh i dont want to think about dropping down even more...but apparently i have to.

[MagnusMadness]

what kinds of things do i need to eat.

right now i'm 5'8 and weight around 140-45..ugh i dont want to think about dropping down even more...but apparently i have to.


Well if you're not doing any cardio, start with that....I'm not going to write out some meal plan unless it's completely necessary....just don't eat bullshit and start doing cardio 3-4 times a week...

[denjin]

For those of you that DO have a six pack, do you guys cook your own meals?

Also, how do you handle lunch? aka: When you're out at work and you have to get a meal to eat, have you been carrying around a bag of food the entire day?

[Soldier Zero]

I know at least 1/2 of the track team here had abs cause they always had to run in practice 5 days a week. Nothing can really top cardio plus some decent healthy eating. The food doesn't even have to be really strict, just cut back on a few things.

[maxx]

Well if you're not doing any cardio, start with that....I'm not going to write out some meal plan unless it's completely necessary....just don't eat bullshit and start doing cardio 3-4 times a week...

my cardio is my martial arts since i train 3 times a week. plus the stuff i do outside of class. I'm a physically fit person.


I really don't know what to eat..since i have never worried about it and ate everything under the sky. And have stayed in shape, i compete and spar so ya. Its not like im a fat kid starting out.

But i really dont know what kinds of things to eat for me to get a six pack.

[bill_rizer]

what kinds of things do i need to eat.

right now i'm 5'8 and weight around 140-45..ugh i dont want to think about dropping down even more...but apparently i have to.

you dont have to drop weight, muscle mass and fat are two different things you could weigh 180lbs and still have good visable abs, this is all to do with youre body fat which needs to be below 12%

I have been doing the weighted cruches for about 2 weeks now and I can see a change, havent checked my Body fat in awhile its between 6-12% though I weigh 140lbs still I want more muscle mass another 30lbs its going to take a while.

I've been stuck on this weight for awhile I need to get strickter with my diet.

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

MagnusMadness:

I looked over my diet and i'm intaking about 2000 calories a day.. not too much.

My work out in a week:
Strength training (lifting weights) 3x
Interval training 1x
Cardio 3x a week
Weighted Abs 2x before a strength work out

I was looking over at bb.com and they said take your current weight.. (166) times it by appox. 15 to get your maintenance calories if you're working out..so, 2500 calories. I'm under about 500 calories, I think that would suffice for a cutting diet.

For strength training i'm doing the routine on this site:
http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/derek28.htm

I read somewhere that you should change up your routine every 3 weeks to keep your body guessing, now my second week is almost up and i'm perplexed to how to change my work out. Any help?

Goal:

Starting:
Tommorow
166 lbs. 15% bodyfat

End:
July 22nd
Maintaining same weight lowering to 10% body fat and a gain of 5 lbs. of muscle

Aiming for 1.5 lbs of fat loss a week.

I'm only assuming i will gain muscle because it's the first time i'm eating about 1 gram of protein per body weight, taking creatine, and consistently working out. Beginners growth..

Supplements i'm going to take:
Glutamine - teaspoon 3x a day
Kre-alkalyne Creatine- 1 tablespoon on strength and interval training days
CLA - whatever bottle recommends
Green tea - before a work out

Reading this over, what are your thoughts?

[Soldier Zero]

Need to buy a bench. I'm looking for inclined and declined positions with leg holder at the bottom (or whatever it's called). Recommendations on what brands to look into?

About to order this too.

http://www.prosource.net/product.jsp?path=-1|19482&id=14897

Anyone ever try it or heard anything about it?

[MagnusMadness]

MagnusMadness:

I looked over my diet and i'm intaking about 2000 calories a day.. not too much.

My work out in a week:
Strength training (lifting weights) 3x
Interval training 1x
Cardio 3x a week
Weighted Abs 2x before a strength work out

I was looking over at bb.com and they said take your current weight.. (166) times it by appox. 15 to get your maintenance calories if you're working out..so, 2500 calories. I'm under about 500 calories, I think that would suffice for a cutting diet.

For strength training i'm doing the routine on this site:
http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/derek28.htm

I read somewhere that you should change up your routine every 3 weeks to keep your body guessing, now my second week is almost up and i'm perplexed to how to change my work out. Any help?

Goal:

Starting:
Tommorow
166 lbs. 15% bodyfat

End:
July 22nd
Maintaining same weight lowering to 10% body fat and a gain of 5 lbs. of muscle

Aiming for 1.5 lbs of fat loss a week.

I'm only assuming i will gain muscle because it's the first time i'm eating about 1 gram of protein per body weight, taking creatine, and consistently working out. Beginners growth..

Supplements i'm going to take:
Glutamine - teaspoon 3x a day
Kre-alkalyne Creatine- 1 tablespoon on strength and interval training days
CLA - whatever bottle recommends
Green tea - before a work out

Reading this over, what are your thoughts?


2000 cals is fine....if you stop losing any weight, you may want to try carb loading a day or two...do a search for that on a bodybuilding site and get a better handle on how to do that...

As far as changing your workouts...first off, you don't have to change every 3 weeks...especially if you are changing up your rep ranges regularly....if you aren't changing rep ranges and want to change your routine up every 3 weeks...it can be as simple as changing the angle or the aparatus (sp?) of a certain exercise....for instance...you change the flat BB Bench Press to Decline DB Presses, you feel me? If you are staying with a certain type of workout already layed out for you, I feel this would be the best way of changing things up without totally getting away from a program. For instance....replace flying motions with different flying motions...don't replace a pressing movement with a flying movement, get it?? Replace back squats with front squats and so on and so forth...



Ok I just clicked the link...and I really don't like that routine...at all. If you are a beginner and want to train 3x a week....full body routines are the way to go. Alot more fun too. Notice in that workout they layed out, they do as much for biceps almost as they do for legs...and not just quads....but ur entire legs...with no calf work or core work. Do you work out at a gym with a good availability of equipment?? If not, post up what you have to work with...if you want, I wouldn't mind writing up full body routines, rep schemes and all.

Oh and gaining 5lbs and putting on 5lbs of muscle are two COMPLETELY different things....5-10lbs of muscle is what most put on in a year. Doesn't sound like a lot but it really is. Not saying you won't put on some lean mass while cutting, but to put on 5lbs of muscle and lose 10-15lbs of fat would be a feat, and a body recomp from hell..lol..a person would look completely different. That would be awesome.

Oh yeah, and I'm pretty sure you should be taking the creatine everyday...most creatines call for you to take doses daily but on days you lift, take a lil more....the creatine I use for example....calls for 1 scoop in water before and after lifting, on days you don't lift, just 1 scoop whenever.

[TheIlluminati]

Need to buy a bench. I'm looking for inclined and declined positions with leg holder at the bottom (or whatever it's called). Recommendations on what brands to look into?

About to order this too.

http://www.prosource.net/product.jsp?path=-1|19482&id=14897 (http://www.prosource.net/product.jsp?path=-1%7C19482&id=14897)

Anyone ever try it or heard anything about it? Taste-wise, it's okay.

How well it works, I can't comment, I only have only used like one other kind of protein, but it definitely digests better than what I -was- using, which was Prolab.


if you want, I wouldn't mind writing up full body routines, rep schemes and all. ... =D

I'd appreciate this, as I'm sure $|-|U(V)AYeL and many others would.
(http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/member.php?u=13987)

[denjin]

Do you work out at a gym with a good availability of equipment?? If not, post up what you have to work with...if you want, I wouldn't mind writing up full body routines, rep schemes and all.

I own the hexagon barbells. I think that's what they're called, they're the ones that don't require adding or removing plates. They also have numbers on them.

I own a bench. Slightly inclined, but at such a low angle that it's essentially a flat bench.

Okay, rep scheme and all please:-)

[Soldier Zero]

Need to buy a bench. I'm looking for inclined and declined positions with leg holder at the bottom (or whatever it's called). Recommendations on what brands to look into?

About to order this too.

http://www.prosource.net/product.jsp?path=-1|19482&id=14897

Anyone ever try it or heard anything about it?

I need a new set of dumbbells too now that I think of it. Ones where you put on plates to change weight or are the hexagonal fixed number ones better?

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

2000 cals is fine....if you stop losing any weight, you may want to try carb loading a day or two...do a search for that on a bodybuilding site and get a better handle on how to do that...

As far as changing your workouts...first off, you don't have to change every 3 weeks...especially if you are changing up your rep ranges regularly....if you aren't changing rep ranges and want to change your routine up every 3 weeks...it can be as simple as changing the angle or the aparatus (sp?) of a certain exercise....for instance...you change the flat BB Bench Press to Decline DB Presses, you feel me? If you are staying with a certain type of workout already layed out for you, I feel this would be the best way of changing things up without totally getting away from a program. For instance....replace flying motions with different flying motions...don't replace a pressing movement with a flying movement, get it?? Replace back squats with front squats and so on and so forth...



Ok I just clicked the link...and I really don't like that routine...at all. If you are a beginner and want to train 3x a week....full body routines are the way to go. Alot more fun too. Notice in that workout they layed out, they do as much for biceps almost as they do for legs...and not just quads....but ur entire legs...with no calf work or core work. Do you work out at a gym with a good availability of equipment?? If not, post up what you have to work with...if you want, I wouldn't mind writing up full body routines, rep schemes and all.

Oh and gaining 5lbs and putting on 5lbs of muscle are two COMPLETELY different things....5-10lbs of muscle is what most put on in a year. Doesn't sound like a lot but it really is. Not saying you won't put on some lean mass while cutting, but to put on 5lbs of muscle and lose 10-15lbs of fat would be a feat, and a body recomp from hell..lol..a person would look completely different. That would be awesome.

Oh yeah, and I'm pretty sure you should be taking the creatine everyday...most creatines call for you to take doses daily but on days you lift, take a lil more....the creatine I use for example....calls for 1 scoop in water before and after lifting, on days you don't lift, just 1 scoop whenever.

Yeah yeah, i've like memorised bodybuiliding.com lol.. i'm just going to increase my calories by 500 one day from carbs.. should keep my thyroid running properly. :rofl:

I have a full gym facility it's got everything! so I would LOVE it if you could write me a full body work out with rep schemes! However, when i do work out i'm out of the gym in 40-45 min. so if i can finish it in that time then that would be great!

lol.. Fuck, eh? I guess i'll just aim to lose about 5 lbs. of fat first then i'll start bulking :annoy:

Creatine everyday? Okay done and done.

I'm going to be posting here more so everybody, call me 'shu.' Typing out my name must be a handfull lol..

[denjin]

Dumbbells versus plates.

Here's the way I look at it, I want my workouts to go as fast as possible. Putting on and removing plates gets OLD FAST.

On the flip side, there is a financial difference. If you do some math, you won't regret it.

I'd already own a bowflex if I had the space. Money is almost negligible (assuming the bowflex lasts a lifetime).

Anyone here got a bowflex?

About the reps and schemes, I went to a site called that had the words "home grown" thinking it'd be perfect for me, but it wasn't. It mentioned all types of cable work outs. I'd really appreciate a giant list of what to do.

[Soldier Zero]

Dumbbells versus plates.

Here's the way I look at it, I want my workouts to go as fast as possible. Putting on and removing plates gets OLD FAST.

On the flip side, there is a financial difference. If you do some math, you won't regret it.

That's what I was thinking of, since plates are cheaper than getting a bunch of dumbbells and get the job done the same, I thought I should get those. If the hexagonal dumbbells are somehow better, I won't mind dishing out a little extra cash to get them.

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

Why don't you guys just join a gym? :S

Edit:

Easy for me to say considering my gym is in my university =p

[MagnusMadness]

Shu, I'm gonna write out full body routines 3x a week....45 minutes heh?? You will be supersetting a LOT... get ready to sweat.

Denjin....give me a minute....I'm gonna have to get creative with ur limited equipment....can you do pull ups where you are?? And do you have a way of getting under a bar to do squats?? Does it have the thing on the end of the bench to do leg extensions and leg curls?? Cuz If I write something out, you will be working out legs like everything else. But I do need to know....how many days a week do you want to workout?? What kinda split do you want?? I'm pretty good with full body routines, upper/lower splits, body part splits (boo) and can write a decent push/pull/lower split....

About the dumbells vs plates and all that jazz....I really recommend getting a gym membership...I think it's a better atmosphere, where you are surrounded by other people with similar goals who may be more experienced (motivation) and the only distractions are other people lifting. And they usually aren't that much a month...like 30 or 40 dollars at most places...sometimes even less. Say you spend a couple hundred bucks on workout equipment...that could be almost a years membership at just about any gym...

[JuiceM0nkey]

For those of you that DO have a six pack, do you guys cook your own meals?

Thats what girlfriends and wives are for:rofl: :rofl:

I have my old lady prepare all my meals every 2 days when I diet down for a show!

[maxx]

can anyone tell me wut to spefically eat or make a foodplan for me. i really am a dumbass in terms of food to get abs. i really want to get abs. i have no idea wut foods to eat.

[denjin]

Dumbbells versus plates.
Putting on and removing plates gets OLD FAST.


I have my old lady prepare all my meals every 2 days when I diet down for a show!

Wow. Good woman. You're a lucky guy, man. I saw a True Life special about prepping for a competition, she puts up with a lot.


i have no idea wut foods to eat.

Yo, man, changing your diet is a lifestyle change.

"Hey, let's all go McDonald's!"
thinking: (Am I really going to derail 7 guys' plans just so I can eat healthy?)

I know, there's salads at McDonald's, but you get my idea.

As a starting point, see if you can make yourself eat no/less chips. I've heard pizza is the world's worst food in a lot of ways, can you give that up?

It isn't so much as eating the proper foods that'll kill you, but it's giving up all the other stuff.


Why don't you guys just join a gym? :S

Edit:

Easy for me to say considering my gym is in my university =p

I have a strong anti-gym sentiment. I'll just hand you my top reason: I like working out alone.

Also, I've been. So I can't buy the "You can't trash it 'til you try it" mindset.


Denjin....give me a minute....I'm gonna have to get creative with ur limited equipment....can you do pull ups where you are?? And do you have a way of getting under a bar to do squats?? Does it have the thing on the end of the bench to do leg extensions and leg curls?? Cuz If I write something out, you will be working out legs like everything else. But I do need to know....how many days a week do you want to workout?? What kinda split do you want?? I'm pretty good with full body routines, upper/lower splits, body part splits (boo) and can write a decent push/pull/lower split.....

Yo, when I do squats, my back goes on FIRE. I'm certain that my form is off, but I have had the hardest damn time fixing that. One of my buddies looks like a short Romie (dude on the boards), so I'd ask him for help. Despite his advice, I can't un-curl my back. The solution I figured was I'd start doing lunges. My ass goes on fire. Good enough I figure.

I want as short a workout as possible. I currently average about an hour. Also, I would like to workout as infrequently as possible. Those two things don't go hand in hand, so I figure 4 times a week? Towards the end of the hour, I feel like commiting suicide so that's why I gotta keep the workouts short.

I do not have pull-ups as an option.

I don't know what leg extensions and leg curls are.

My current leg work is the tip-toeing thing and the squats.

MagnusMadness, here's the mix of stuff I currently do:

Toes on bed: pushup
Push ups
Flies
Benching

Barbell Behind Neck Press
Barbell Upright Row
Barbell Military Press (I do these seated)
Dumbbell Front Raise

Leg lifts
Knees to one side: crunches
Crunches, standard
Dumbbell Side Bend

Barbell Lunge
Barbell Rear Lunge
Barbell Side Lunge

Curls
Hammer Curls
Concentration curls

Shrugs

[Magnus Huang]

When's the most critical time to drink a protein shake? or solid protein like chicken/fish?

[Soldier Zero]

About the dumbells vs plates and all that jazz....I really recommend getting a gym membership...I think it's a better atmosphere, where you are surrounded by other people with similar goals who may be more experienced (motivation) and the only distractions are other people lifting. And they usually aren't that much a month...like 30 or 40 dollars at most places...sometimes even less. Say you spend a couple hundred bucks on workout equipment...that could be almost a years membership at just about any gym...

I wish I could, closest to me is $50 a month and I don't have a lot of dough to dish out. :sad:

[MagnusMadness]

Matt's 15 Rules of Weight-training...(i.e. What I believe about training)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I believe about training:

Virtually everything you’ve ever read from a bodybuilding magazine is heresy and should be regarded as not worth the paper it was printed on. The programs written by the so called superstars of the bodybuilding world were actually ghost written by some guy in a cubicle who doesn’t know a thing about proper training, programming, exercise phys, or periodization. If, by chance the program was actually written by the superstar you can rest easy as long as you are one of the most genetically gifted people in history AND you are on such a ridiculous amount of drugs that you have to tan to hide the yellowing of your skin due to liver failure.

The fact is that big, strong guys are a dime a dozen, and many of them get that way in spite of their training knowledge than because of it.

I know what I’m talking about in the world of training not because I’m the biggest or the strongest (although, at 270lbs and an 800 squat, 600 bench, and 700 dead lift I can hold my own), and not because I know the most about exercise phys (though I can hold my own there too), but because I have trained with and become friends with best. I have trained at Westside Barbell Club, with the Metal Militia, talk on a continual basis with the best strength coaches in the nation and world-wide, and the training methods I prescribe have been tested in the gym on literally hundreds and hundreds of regular, everyday athletes and shown to work. Period.

So here’s what I can stand before you today and say with great conviction what I know to be true about training:

1) I believe in general that the majority of people don’t work hard enough. If there’s one thing we can learn from the old Eastern Bloc countries, it’s that they worked harder than us, and that primarily, is why they always beat us in the Olympics. Work hard in the gym (even if your program sucks) and you will be rewarded.

2) I also believe that most people don’t put near enough emphasis on lower body and core work. The key to getting big is full squats and dead lifts. If you are looking at your routine and you see that you are training upper body 3 or 4 days per week and lower body once, you have a serious problem. The majority of athletes should live and die in the squat rack.

3) And for that matter, EVERYONE’S program should be centered around these exercises: Full Squat, Dead lifts (or cleans or both), heavy barbell rows, bench press, and Standing Barbell Military/Push Presses. Add pull ups, barbell curls, dips, heavy abdominal work, and some core work (back extensions, reverse hypers, or glute hams) and that should make up 95-100% of the total number of exercises you do. The most effective training is simple and hard.

4) Training a body part once per week (and one body part per day) is one of the worst ways to train. It will create a rut in your training that you can’t dig out of.

Training a bodypart twice per week has always been shown to be superior to once per week training of a muscle. The problem is with the influx of "Weider Principles" and other bodybuilding trash that's posted in the magazines, the masses have been stuck in the one-bodypart-per-day-per-week rut for years.

No strength athletes train a bodypart once per week. Most olympic lifters, powerlifters, and strongman train their backs at least four times per week, and last time I checked, they weren't lacking in back width.

The simple fact is that training using an upper/lower split or a push/pull split or 3 full body days will provide double or triple the training stimulus than training a muscle once per week and thus, if done correctly will lead to much, much greater growth and strength gains.


5) Training to near muscular failure has shown to induce identical hypertrophy gains than training to all out muscular failure. The reason you guys can’t train a muscle more than once per week is because you are destroying it when you do train it. Learn to hit or miss that last rep and then call it done. Don’t do ridiculous amounts of forced reps, negatives, etc. until you literally can’t move the muscle. Take it to near failure and then your muscles will recover enough so that you can train them again in 3-4 days.

Understand that there is a huge difference in training to near failure and not training hard. I would never advocate to not train hard. Actually, quite the opposite try to squat for 5 sets of 5 reps using only 10lbs less than your five rep max. That’s absolutely brutal. But when you get done, don’t go to the leg press machine and keep pounding out sets and stripping off weight until you literal can’t do a single leg press with only the sled. That’s absurd, and you can’t recover from it in 3 days.

6) Squat at least below parallel every time. Are you kidding me? I can’t believe some people are still quarter squatting and saying that riding a squat all the way to the ground is bad for your knees. Learn the facts. Stopping at or above parallel puts much more strain on your knees than going ass to grass. Plus going all the way down in an Olympic style back squat will put more mass on you than any other exercise. Period.

7) Isolation exercises are absolute crap. 90% of your routine should be made up of full squats, dead lifts or cleans, bench press, standing overhead press, heavy barbell rows, pull-ups, dips, and core work (abs, glute ham raises, back extensions, reverse hypers). Isolation exercises and machines are the worst thing that ever happened to the weight training world.

8) Quit using pyramid rep schemes like 10,8,6,4,2 – Instead, your time would be better served doing boring (but effective) gut busting sets of 5x5 or 4x8-10 using the SAME WEIGHT for each set. They WILL produce better results than the pyramid scheme. BTW, check your ego at the door when you do these.

9) I’ll quote my good friend, Glenn Pendlay (the best S&C coach in the nation) for the next one:

"Most athletes do too many exercises. Many times they look over other peoples programs like they are at a buffet. They pick a little of this and a little of that from a variety of programs, and end up with something useless. People think you have to train each muscle with a different specific exercise. Many guys in college athletics would do better if they would just randomly slash off half of what they are doing, and then work twice as hard on the half that is left."

10) Another of my favorites from Glenn:

"I’m so sick and tired of hearing people who just started training who say they can’t gain weight. Jeez I’ve heard this crap so often. Every day it seems I have some stupid kid ask me about how to gain weight... in restaurants, at the grocery store, you name it. For some reason there seems to be a sign on my back or something. Usually I know its worthless to talk to them, sometimes I actually waste my time. Talked to a kid at the golden corral a couple of days ago. took almost an hour when I should have been enjoying my all you can eat steak night... 3 days later I see him in the gym when I just happened to go in to talk to a friend who I knew was there... kid was there doing preacher curls. said hi to me, then said well I talked to my friend about what you said and he said he tried it once and overstrained so I decided to do this thing I read about... on the other hand about 6 months ago I talked to this 6' tall, 150lb kid who wanted to know about getting stronger. Kid had done well in judo, won some titles, also after that had done cycling, turned pro then quit a year later, quite a good road racer. He actually did what I told him I guess, about 3 months after I saw him the first time I saw him again, he weighed about 185... He wanted to try Olympic weightlifting so I let him train with the team I coach. Now he’s weighing 204 and clean and jerking about 300lbs, 54lbs gained in 6 months. No drugs. Olympic squat from 175lbs to 385lbs, front squat from 150lbs to 330lbs. hell be a good lifter, has a good work ethic. Needs to be 240 and fairly lean, will compete eventually in the 231 pound class. Will take about another 12-15 months I suppose. Why is a kid like this the exception and not the rule? Why will kids do the same old thing for years in the absence of results, and not try anything new? What the hell is wrong with people. There is a gym in town, I know the owner so I go and talk to him sometimes, there are all these kids in there, skinny little ****s, doing curls. They never progress, you see the same faces one year to the next, same bodies too."

11) Ultra slow reps or TUT is, for the most part completely worthless. Will it work? Yes. But the total amount of work that one can complete is much lower when utilizing slow reps. Just go natural. Don’t try to be super fast, and bouncy, and don’t try to go ultra slow. Just do it naturally and controlled.

12) The burn, the pump and the feel have nothing to do with the effectiveness of an exercise. Yes, even I have been caught on upper body days looking at myself in the mirror when I’m all blown up, but that has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the last exercise. You do hammer strength bench presses and flys for sets of 20 and I’ll do heavy barbell bench presses and deep dips. One of us will feel the pump more and the other one will grow.

13) Likewise, delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) also gives no clue as to the effectiveness of a workout. It just means A) you have a ton of micro trauma in a muscle or B) a lot of lactic acid/ waste products. Congratulations.

14) Core stability training is not done on a swiss ball or a stability board. It’s done by pulling heavy dead lifts, standing overhead presses, full squats, heavy barbell rows, heavy farmers walks, Atlas stones, tire flipping, reverse hypers, heavy back extensions, glute ham raises, and heavy abdominal work.

15) A good gym has nothing to do with how nice the machines are or if they have a pool or tanning beds or even if it’s air conditioned. A good gym smells like a mix of body odor and liniment and supplies their members with a big box of chalk.

[denjin]

Matt's 15 Rules of Weight-training...(i.e. What I believe about training)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I believe about training:

Virtually everything you’ve ever read from a bodybuilding magazine is heresy and should be regarded as not worth the paper it was printed on.

your time would be better served doing boring (but effective) gut busting sets of 5x5 or 4x8-10 using the SAME WEIGHT for each set. They WILL produce better results than the pyramid scheme. BTW, check your ego at the door when you do these.


I'm not familiar with a pyramid scheme, but it's probably first do 20 pounds then 25 pounds then 30 pounds right? That's my guess based on what everyone keeps telling me.

That's one of the things in your post that burned into my retinas.

I read the whole post, but have yet to let it all sink in. I know how taxing it is to write a giant post, so I'll do you the courtesy of trying my best to absorb it all.

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

Magnus: Holy..shit. Way to spit the truth! I'm listening to everything you say from now on! *note: i'm a beginner.

Even though I call myself a "beginner" I will tell you this, i've done EXTENSIVE reading into building muscle/losing fat and I'm taking biology in university. EVERYTHING this guy has said makes sense, especially the part about training once a week is garbage. Your muscles ONLY grow for 48 hours after your work out then they stop, why make them sore for extra days? "Researchers in Taiwan found that performing heavy biceps curls with sore muscles didn't slow recovery from a bout of exercise 3 days earlier. And although soreness can linger for several days after you lift, previous research has shown that muscles grow for just 48 hours after a training session."^1

One thing however Magnus I am going to question.. i've read SEVERAL places it's best to go fast (2 seconds) when you're contracting, and slow (4 seconds) when you're relaxing in an exercise. Thoughts? Their reasoning is it breaks down more muscle.. but I guess the answer may lie in my previous paragraph.

I'm assuming the 3x full body work out will be based on all these rules? =p Do you have rules for nutrition as well?

1. http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=fitness&conitem=62268b5d0516b010VgnVCM100000cfe793cd____&cm_re=HP-_-Bulletins-_-Soreness%20Not%20Best%20Fitness%20Indicator

[MagnusMadness]

Alright shu, as promised ur full body program...to be done in this fashion...on/off/on/off/on/off/off.

Day 1:
Squats (quad dominant)
Bench Press (horizontal push)
Bent Rows (horizontal pull)
Hyper Extensions (hip/ham dominant)
Standing BB Military Press (vertical push)
Close Grip Lat Pulldowns (vertical pull)

Day2:
Deadlifts (hip/ham dominant)
Pull ups (assisted or weighted, just get the reps desired) (vertical pull)
Dips (vertical push)
Lunges (quad dominant)
Close Grip Pulley rows (horizontal pull)
Incline Press (not TOO steep) (Horizontal Push

Day3:
Front Squat or Hack Squat (quad dominant)
Seated DB Military Press (vertical push
Wide Grip Lat Pulls (vertical pull
Stiff Legged Deadlifts (hip/ham dominant)
Decline Press (horizontal push)
DB Rows (horizontal pull)

Since you are kinduva newb, I want you doing 12-15 rep sets the first couple weeks with this program....once you are CERTAIN that form is flawless and stabilizers are up to the challenge of heavier weights...periodize in this manner

Week 1: 3x6-8 reps
Week 2: 3x8-12
Week 3: 3x10, supersetting movements on opposing planes....for example...on day 1 week 3 you would superset bench presses and bent rows...and superset the arnolds and CG lat pulldowns.
Week 4 (UNLOAD): 2x15 light weights.
Repeat....except next week 4, instead of unloading...just take the week off. At this point, you might try a different program or a different form of periodization....If you like it alot, then after the third cycle, start changing exercises, keeping them on the corresponding movement planes..and definitely change forms of periodization...I like undulating periodization too. Or you could do linear too...here's a couple examples

Undulating:
Week 1: 3x10
Week 2: 5x5
Week 3: 4x8
Unload

Or

Linear: Accumulation
Week 1: 3x8
Week 2: 4x8
Week 3: 5x8
Unload.

The exercises that say BB or DB, I want you using that particular aparatus (sp?)....for some of those pressing exercises, it's up to you, barbell or dumbells whichever you prefer...I listed the different movement planes in italics so you can kind of see how I put together this program, also...if you want to change up exercises from time to time you can do so, just make sure the exercise you are swapping out is in the same movement plane, so as not to fuck up the program I laid out. For instance....You want to do dips instead of military presses....well they are both vertical pushing movements, so you could swap those out at will.

You don't have to train to failure, but with intensity...since you are periodizing rep schemes you will want to keep a journal so you know what weights you are using for what reps....feel me?

I think that's it...hope that helps...If I remember something else that's important I'll post up later.

[MagnusMadness]

Magnus: Holy..shit. Way to spit the truth! I'm listening to everything you say from now on! *note: i'm a beginner.

I'm assuming the 3x full body work out will be based on all these rules? =p Do you have rules for nutrition as well?


Heheh....although I do agree with everything I posted just then, I can't take credit for that post...I got that from the bodybuilding forum I frequent, that I recommend you all check out from time to time...IronMagazineForums.com....my name is Perry, not Matt LOL. I will post little gems like this as often as possible from now on.

And I thought u had ur diet in check already?? With the 2000 cals a day and a carb loading day or two a week right? Stick with that unless you aren't seeing what you want....you may want to zip over the diet and nutrition threads on IronMagazine.com and post ur diet up...there are licensed dieticians that will rip it apart I assure you...much better than I could.

About the rep tempo....placing excessive emphasis on eccentric phases of a lift does cause more muscle trauma, yes, and you will be more sore....but when working a muscle more than once a week, that may be counterproductive, we want to recover in 3 days. If you read that paragraph in the rules of weight training regarding TUT (time under tension) It doesn't advocate slower eccentrics because you can't do as much work....and advocates just going natural, not super slow but not super fast and bouncy.

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

snip

Dude, I love you! I'm sortof scared because i've seen people do these exercises and they look TOUGH! But I love a challenge! :wink: Good thing i'm starting off with light weights..

Few questions:

1. How do I make sure not to hit failure? I'm thinking when I feel I can do one more just stop then? Would that be a good indicator?

2. Squats, quad dominant? How do you make them quad dominant? lol.. when I do them my glutes and hamstrings get most of the heat... ALSO, Free weights or machine??

3. Hyper extensions?!? :looney: What are those?

4. How close, is a close grip lat pulldown?

5. Never done deadlifts, and can you write up how to perform it with good form?

6. Lunges?

7. Hack squat?

8. Stiff legged deadlifts?

9. WtF is undulating and acclimiation?! and I'm confused as to what i'm suppopsed to do in week 3 and week 4.

I could probably google this.. but i'm lazy right now and hoping you're willing to answer.

[MagnusMadness]

I'm not familiar with a pyramid scheme, but it's probably first do 20 pounds then 25 pounds then 30 pounds right? That's my guess based on what everyone keeps telling me.

That's one of the things in your post that burned into my retinas.

I read the whole post, but have yet to let it all sink in. I know how taxing it is to write a giant post, so I'll do you the courtesy of trying my best to absorb it all.


Yes...you add weight each set and do less reps. It's pretty shitty, but a fuck ton of people do it...I used to do it....sometimes still getting caught up in it.

[MagnusMadness]

Dude, I love you! I'm sortof scared because i've seen people do these exercises and they look TOUGH! But I love a challenge! :wink: Good thing i'm starting off with light weights..

Few questions:

1. How do I make sure not to hit failure? I'm thinking when I feel I can do one more just stop then? Would that be a good indicator? The big thing is don't do a bunch of forced reps and negatives...if you hit failure, no big deal....if you hit failure before you got the desired number of reps then you need to drop the weight

2. Squats, quad dominant? How do you make them quad dominant? lol.. when I do them my glutes and hamstrings get most of the heat... ALSO, Free weights or machine?? The first thing you need to do is go ALL THE WAY DOWN when you squat and push off your heals, but yes you will feel this in just about every part of your legs/posterior chain....that's why they are so great!!!.....FREE WEIGHTS, some of the exercises I listed will be with machines..but if you can do it with dumbells or barbells then do it.

3. Hyper extensions?!? :looney: What are those? Google this, so you can see pics

4. How close, is a close grip lat pulldown? Hands almost together....use the same handle that you would use for the pulley rows, not the long bar

5. Never done deadlifts, and can you write up how to perform it with good form? Google this too, so you can really see it being done.....important thing is...try to get under it so you can lift with ur legs and DON'T ROUND YOUR BACK....this multiplies the pressure on your spine...If you have a hard time gripping the bar when you use heavier weights, you may want to get some straps....if you want to improve grip strength, then go strapless....also look into getting a weight belt for exercises like this and maybe even squats too.

6. Lunges? Google again...I want you to see these being done...

7. Hack squat? a hack squat will be a machine...you can do front squats with free weights though, and they are great too, google that as well if you want to see it being done....

8. Stiff legged deadlifts?Guess what...google...lol

9. WtF is undulating and acclimiation?! and I'm confused as to what i'm suppopsed to do in week 3 and week 4. Those are just the names for those forms of periodization. Stick to the first one that I outlined in detail....week 3 just do what I said....superset the corresponding exercises. Example: On day 1 you would set up ur bench for the bench press exercise, and set up a barbell for bent over rows....after you finish a set of bench presses, immediately go over to the barbell to do a set of bent over rows....this is called a superset...week 4 you are going to unload a little bit by only doing 2 sets of 12-15 reps with light weight...this gives your muscles somewhat of a break to more fully recover before you start the cycle over again. Still with me?

I could probably google this.. but i'm lazy right now and hoping you're willing to answer.


I answered the questions in your quote in bold....you do need to either google this shit or ask someone at the gym to show you these exercises...some of them aren't easy (bent rows, standing military press) so start light and really be careful....Hope this all wasn't too advanced.

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

Magnus: Thanks bud.

[MagnusMadness]

Magnus: Thanks bud.


Also, This routine may be kinda tough for a somewhat beginner....if it proves difficult at first....you can cut back the volume by doing less sets or even leaving out an exercise here and there....just don't cut out the leg exercises ever....they are very important.

[Soldier Zero]

Matt's 15 Rules of Weight-training...(i.e. What I believe about training)
*SNIP*


Definitely a good read, I use to do pyramid every once in a while, but I won't anymore. I'll try to breakdown what I've been doing and re-create a new workout plan.

Big thanks man. :tup:

[denjin]

http://ironmagazine.com/FitnessMistakes.pdf

Page 15 is interesting reading.

+++

P-funk
P-side......the only side
Moderator:

upper push- bench (flat, incline, decline. barbell and DB), shoulder press (DB and BB), dips

upper pull- pulldowns (various grips), pull ups (various grips), bent over rows (barbells and DBs. Various grips), cable row, face pulls, shrugs (Db or BB)

lower body quad dominant- squat (back and front. no smith machine), lunges, bulgarian squat, one legged squat, multidirectinal lunges

lower body hip dominant- deadlifts, Romanian deadlift, Straight Legged deadlift, trap bar deadlifts, step ups, hyperextensions, glute ham raises, reverse hypers


with these exercises and all their varieties and progressions you can put together years of workouts. Be creative.

[MagnusMadness]

http://ironmagazine.com/FitnessMistakes.pdf

Page 15 is interesting reading.

+++

P-funk
P-side......the only side
Moderator:

upper push- bench (flat, incline, decline. barbell and DB), shoulder press (DB and BB), dips

upper pull- pulldowns (various grips), pull ups (various grips), bent over rows (barbells and DBs. Various grips), cable row, face pulls, shrugs (Db or BB)

lower body quad dominant- squat (back and front. no smith machine), lunges, bulgarian squat, one legged squat, multidirectinal lunges

lower body hip dominant- deadlifts, Romanian deadlift, Straight Legged deadlift, trap bar deadlifts, step ups, hyperextensions, glute ham raises, reverse hypers


with these exercises and all their varieties and progressions you can put together years of workouts. Be creative.

P-Funk and CowPimp are the fucking shit....their knowledge is just sick. Props for checkin out IronMagazine.

[denjin]

Matt's 15 Rules of Weight-training...(i.e. What I believe about training)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3) And for that matter, EVERYONE’S program should be centered around these exercises: Full Squat, Dead lifts (or cleans or both), heavy barbell rows, bench press, and Standing Barbell Military/Push Presses. Add pull ups, barbell curls, dips, heavy abdominal work, and some core work (back extensions, reverse hypers, or glute hams) and that should make up 95-100% of the total number of exercises you do. The most effective training is simple and hard.

4) Training a body part once per week (and one body part per day) is one of the worst ways to train. It will create a rut in your training that you can’t dig out of.




Fuckin' search...is there a way to dig up posts by a certain user WITHIN a thread?

I've been digging through different places so I'm not sure if I read it here.

While I know you don't believe in full body workouts, Romie, is 95-100% of your workout in those items mentioned?

[Romie]

Fuckin' search...is there a way to dig up posts by a certain user WITHIN a thread?

I've been digging through different places so I'm not sure if I read it here.

While I know you don't believe in full body workouts, Romie, is 95-100% of your workout in those items mentioned?


Let's see:







4) Training a body part once per week (and one body part per day) is one of the worst ways to train. It will create a rut in your training that you can’t dig out of.

Training a bodypart twice per week has always been shown to be superior to once per week training of a muscle. The problem is with the influx of "Weider Principles" and other bodybuilding trash that's posted in the magazines, the masses have been stuck in the one-bodypart-per-day-per-week rut for years.

No strength athletes train a bodypart once per week. Most olympic lifters, powerlifters, and strongman train their backs at least four times per week, and last time I checked, they weren't lacking in back width.

The simple fact is that training using an upper/lower split or a push/pull split or 3 full body days will provide double or triple the training stimulus than training a muscle once per week and thus, if done correctly will lead to much, much greater growth and strength gains.


5) Training to near muscular failure has shown to induce identical hypertrophy gains than training to all out muscular failure. The reason you guys can’t train a muscle more than once per week is because you are destroying it when you do train it. Learn to hit or miss that last rep and then call it done. Don’t do ridiculous amounts of forced reps, negatives, etc. until you literally can’t move the muscle. Take it to near failure and then your muscles will recover enough so that you can train them again in 3-4 days.

Understand that there is a huge difference in training to near failure and not training hard. I would never advocate to not train hard. Actually, quite the opposite try to squat for 5 sets of 5 reps using only 10lbs less than your five rep max. That’s absolutely brutal. But when you get done, don’t go to the leg press machine and keep pounding out sets and stripping off weight until you literal can’t do a single leg press with only the sled. That’s absurd, and you can’t recover from it in 3 days.



7) Isolation exercises are absolute crap. 90% of your routine should be made up of full squats, dead lifts or cleans, bench press, standing overhead press, heavy barbell rows, pull-ups, dips, and core work (abs, glute ham raises, back extensions, reverse hypers). Isolation exercises and machines are the worst thing that ever happened to the weight training world.





These are the only ones I disagree with (I only disagree 50% with number 7, I'll explain later). Everything else is pretty much spot on. My workouts are centered around heavy, compound movements; squats, bench press, deadlifts, shoulder press, etc.

Only thing I found wrong with the article is 3 and 7 are somewhat contradictory, he says isolation work is crap but he mentions curls and back raises, which are isolation exercises.


Isolation exercises aren't useless. It's just another way of working out a muscle. Your triceps don't know the difference between heavy military presses and skull crushers. It won't react differently. It won't grow differently. Isolation exercises have their uses, but shouldn't be the focus of the routine. I agree with Magnus when it comes to building a workout around heavy compound movements.

As for training a each bodypart once a week... I've tried it, and I've gotten better results with the more traditional principles. I've tried a variety of different routines, HIT, HTST, twice a week full body routines, etc. and I've found what works for me. I'm 19, been working out since I was 14, and I can honestly say in only the past 2 years I've found what works for me. I started, kept adjusting and tweaking, trying different training methods, and kept going until I found out what makes my body grow the fastest. It's trial and error. If the first bodybuilding thread was still here, you'd see my routine last year was completely different from what I'm doing now.

[maxx]

Yo, man, changing your diet is a lifestyle change.

"Hey, let's all go McDonald's!"
thinking: (Am I really going to derail 7 guys' plans just so I can eat healthy?)

I know, there's salads at McDonald's, but you get my idea.

As a starting point, see if you can make yourself eat no/less chips. I've heard pizza is the world's worst food in a lot of ways, can you give that up?

It isn't so much as eating the proper foods that'll kill you, but it's giving up all the other stuff.


i wouldn't mind it as a lifestyle change, because it would help me get better at my gymnastics stuff i do in martial arts.

i dont like chips to begin with, i just eat them..cause well..its their in the house.

and if i stopped eating pizza it would be better for my body since im semi allergic to it..but still eat it cause i love pizza. i am alleric to lactate thats in milk products..it effects my asthma.

i need a starting point, i dont care about a lifestyle change...im already trying to work on it. but i know me eating less these past few weeks isnt the best idea..so instead of eating less i wanna eat healthy.

but have no idea whats healthy or not. i need specific foods i should be eating to cut my fat down. and maybe a meal plan if one of you is kind enough.

im willing to do the work i just need help getting started.

[Soldier Zero]

i wouldn't mind it as a lifestyle change, because it would help me get better at my gymnastics stuff i do in martial arts.

i dont like chips to begin with, i just eat them..cause well..its their in the house.

and if i stopped eating pizza it would be better for my body since im semi allergic to it..but still eat it cause i love pizza. i am alleric to lactate thats in milk products..it effects my asthma.

i need a starting point, i dont care about a lifestyle change...im already trying to work on it. but i know me eating less these past few weeks isnt the best idea..so instead of eating less i wanna eat healthy.

but have no idea whats healthy or not. i need specific foods i should be eating to cut my fat down. and maybe a meal plan if one of you is kind enough.

im willing to do the work i just need help getting started.

I can give you a whole list for what's good to eat. A couple of years ago, my health teacher wrote up a list of foods to eat and when to eat them to reduce body fat. If you follow it fully, you lose 1/4 a lb. a day which is pretty good without doing any type of cardio.


What's a good brand for benches? I went to a few stores today, but I'm still not sure which brands are good. I'm looking for an olympic-sized with inclined and declined positions. Suggestions or links I can check out?

[FallingEdge]

I can give you a whole list for what's good to eat. A couple of years ago, my health teacher wrote up a list of foods to eat and when to eat them to reduce body fat. If you follow it fully, you lose 1/4 a lb. a day which is pretty good without doing any type of cardio.


What's a good brand for benches? I went to a few stores today, but I'm still not sure which brands are good. I'm looking for an olympic-sized with inclined and declined positions. Suggestions or links I can check out?

Hook me up with that list. I need all the healthy food I can get. I been eating a lot of fruit lately whenever I am hungry but I would like to see what will be good for a meal.

[io]

i need a list of high-calorie foods. i really can't stand eating (just a little and i'm full). currently i'm getting probably 1700-1800 with around 170 g of protein and i don't think it's enough. i'm around 5'10" and 165ish

[HeaT]

another way to make your squat session more "quad" dominant is to do FRONT squats...

additionally, you can put like 10 lb plates on the floor and step on them with your just your heal while you are doing the squats...so basically it will be forcing you to stand on your tip toes...

that article was rediculous...for example #4, the first question that comes to mind is Why does it create a "rut" in your training that you cannot dig yourself out of???

he says nothing of why this is, just that it is...i would like at least something that would make sense...any emperical evidence??? studies???

also #11, what he calls TUT or ultra slow reps are not completely worthless at all, what they are good for is increasing strength...many studies have been done with athletes that have shown incredible strength gains...so how does this apply to bodybuilding, well if you want to increase strength to put up more weight for your 10 reps, then this is a good way to do it...

im outi

Roberth

ps...working out a body part 4 times a week as he mentioned is one of the most rediculous things i have ever heard...

[denjin]

another way to make your squat session more "quad" dominant is to do FRONT squats...

additionally, you can put like 10 lb plates on the floor and step on them with your just your heal while you are doing the squats...so basically it will be forcing you to stand on your tip toes...

that article was rediculous...for example #4, the first question that comes to mind is Why does it create a "rut" in your training that you cannot dig yourself out of???

he says nothing of why this is, just that it is...i would like at least something that would make sense...any emperical evidence??? studies???

also #11, what he calls TUT or ultra slow reps are not completely worthless at all, what they are good for is increasing strength...many studies have been done with athletes that have shown incredible strength gains...so how does this apply to bodybuilding, well if you want to increase strength to put up more weight for your 10 reps, then this is a good way to do it...

im outi

Roberth

ps...working out a body part 4 times a week as he mentioned is one of the most rediculous things i have ever heard...

Frustrating...so much conflicting information.

Despite that, it's good to hear various opinions.

Robert, can you elaborate the 10 lb plates thing? What are front squats?

Actually, can you elaborate on the whole post?






About changing your rep schemes, is there such a thing as changing too often?
e.g. Curls, 3x8, then next time I get back to curls, I do 5x5, then next time 3x15 or something? I ask 'cause I'm sure if I waited each month to change out my rep scheme, I'd forget to do it, so I'm just going to change it every time.

Does everyone agree that rep schemes should be changed often? (Unlike the other topics that can be debated.)

[maxx]

I can give you a whole list for what's good to eat. A couple of years ago, my health teacher wrote up a list of foods to eat and when to eat them to reduce body fat. If you follow it fully, you lose 1/4 a lb. a day which is pretty good without doing any type of cardio.


What's a good brand for benches? I went to a few stores today, but I'm still not sure which brands are good. I'm looking for an olympic-sized with inclined and declined positions. Suggestions or links I can check out?

most defintly hook me up with that list. i need new lunches so i can stop starving or ending up eating at burgerking.

i seriously am sick of doing 500 crunches every other night..i need to see some results....i need new foods.

[MagnusMadness]

This shit is not conflicting at all. Everybody just wants to follow ancient bodybuilding dogma without first realizing that these guys are on excessive amounts of drugs and they are also "perfect scenarios"....they workout, eat (alot), and rest....you could grow doing just about anything in the gym LOL....also people want to forget about ol' Lou Ferigno who did full body routines 3x a week when it comes to "empirical evidence".



that article was rediculous...for example #4, the first question that comes to mind is Why does it create a "rut" in your training that you cannot dig yourself out of???

he says nothing of why this is, just that it is...i would like at least something that would make sense...any emperical evidence??? studies???


It's easy to fall into training bodyparts instead of movements....once programmed most people become very close minded to different methods of training....especially if they have seen ANY results at all...And yes there are tons of studies...just people disregard them like you are now...The most basic study done states that when you provide stimulus to muscle tissue via resistance training, protein synthesis is elevated for a window of 48 hours...so by targeting a muscle once a week...that muscle is growing 2 days a week out of 7. If you go to T-Nation you can find ALL KINDS of articles written by elite fitness coaches who are completely against body part splits....mike boyle and alwyn cosgrove are two that come to mind...shoot them an email and they will be glad to provide you with all the studies and evidence you can stand.



also #11, what he calls TUT or ultra slow reps are not completely worthless at all, what they are good for is increasing strength...many studies have been done with athletes that have shown incredible strength gains...so how does this apply to bodybuilding, well if you want to increase strength to put up more weight for your 10 reps, then this is a good way to do it...

Yeah, they kinda are. Especially when training for strength...Reidar posted a link to a great article at Westside about that a little while ago...very enlightening indeed.



ps...working out a body part 4 times a week as he mentioned is one of the most rediculous things i have ever heard...

It's not though...Oly lifters and powerlifters alike all train certain movements multiple times a week. This comes back to people not wanting to be open minded....well what if I told you that your favorite body part split works shoulders 3 times a week? Chest one day....back another...shoulders on it's own day....all these days work shoulders, whether you want to admit it or not. Everytime you grab a dumbell or a barbell for a compound lift...you are working your shoulders, if ever so slightly...via shoulder adduction, abduction, or external rotation. This is one of the reasons shoulder injuries/imbalances are so common in the everyday gym.


Only thing I found wrong with the article is 3 and 7 are somewhat contradictory, he says isolation work is crap but he mentions curls and back raises, which are isolation exercises.

He briefly mentions "barbell" curls...which are much different than concentration or preacher curls...Just like he says nothing of arnold pressing...but standing push presses...Back raises? If you mean hyper extensions....they are as much an isolation exercise as Stiff Legged Deadlifts...Hypers work the entire posterior chain...grab a plate and let it really stretch you out and you will feel it in ur hams....it falls into the "hip/ham dominant movement" category.



Isolation exercises aren't useless. It's just another way of working out a muscle. Your triceps don't know the difference between heavy military presses and skull crushers. It won't react differently. It won't grow differently. Isolation exercises have their uses, but shouldn't be the focus of the routine. I agree with Magnus when it comes to building a workout around heavy compound movements.

No they aren't completely useless....but when training movements in a high frequency routine they take up too much time. When using heavy compound lifts as the basis for a workout....isolation work not only takes a back seat, but isn't as necessary. People also want to fucking DESTROY small muscles like bi's and tri's when it just isn't necessary...At the end of an upper body routine you can superset bi's and tri's with one choice exercise for 3-4 sets and get the job done. Most people think more is better, and in the world of bodybuilding, it just isn't....train smart and hard, not long.



As for training a each bodypart once a week... I've tried it, and I've gotten better results with the more traditional principles. I've tried a variety of different routines, HIT, HTST, twice a week full body routines, etc. and I've found what works for me. I'm 19, been working out since I was 14, and I can honestly say in only the past 2 years I've found what works for me. I started, kept adjusting and tweaking, trying different training methods, and kept going until I found out what makes my body grow the fastest. It's trial and error. If the first bodybuilding thread was still here, you'd see my routine last year was completely different from what I'm doing now.

You know what....I've seen a lot of results with body part splits...I've also had shoulder and back problems too. I just choose not to ignore what's right in my face with what these fitness and strength coaches have been preaching as long as I've been listening. And what they say makes sense. Bottom line is most people are going to do what they want to....or what comes easy or natural to them...what they're used to...what their dumbass friend swears is the fucking truth...

Interestingly enough...I was talking to a guy the other day in the gym who competes and knows a few of the old school bodybuilders...he swears that ALL these guys are lying about what they did or what they are doing now...what they eat, how they workout, how often they workout....he swears they don't workout but every other day...eat whatever the fuck they want to...letting the growth hormone keep the fat off....then drop water before competition. Just a little food for thought....

[MagnusMadness]

10 Things I've Learned
Ramblings From a Mathematically
Challenged Fitness Coach
by Alwyn Cosgrove

Note: T-Nation asked Cosgrove to tell us his top ten tips. He gave us 34.

1. In training, the only thing that matters is the result. It doesn't matter what used to happen, what you think should happen, what a textbook tells you is happening, what the experts say, or what a bunch of borderline-retarded pencildicks on a forum post about.

What matters is actually what happens! Once a coach really understands this and can let go of any preconceived notions of what "should" have happened, he can really get results.

2. When designing training programs, resist the pressure to conform to any tradition or system of beliefs, no matter how dogmatically that tradition or those beliefs are presented, or how much you get "slammed" for not conforming. This applies to training and life. It's also why I stopped wearing kilts when I moved to America.

3. Take training advice only from guys who've trained themselves to a reasonably high level or make their living from getting results with real people. Be aware though that "doing" and "coaching" don't always exist in the same person!

The game changes when it's "put up or shut up" time and you have to actually get a result in order to put food on the table. A lot of people writing and talking about training have never had to do that. The same is true for business and life in general.

4. My favorite Bruce Lee quote is: "Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless." The full quote finishes with "... add what is specifically your own."

So just make sure you take any advice and tweak it based on your own experiences. A good coach will use all his knowledge and experience to help you; when you add in your ownknowledge and experience, then you've got something.

5. A good program performed poorly is worthless. A shitty program done with a ton of effort is worth a lot. But when you get a good program and a ton of effort, the results can be amazing.

6. Keep your own personal attitude pendulum in the center. In training, nutrition, and pretty much everything, we always see an overreaction to anything new in the short term and an under-reaction in the long term. Smart people do neither and take the information for what it is. We went through a massive overreaction – and are currently under-reacting – to static stretching, stability ball training, aerobic training, and overtraining. In other words:

Swiss balls are a useful tool. Don't ignore them.

Kettlebells are a useful tool. Don't ignore everything else.

Mr. Spielberg, Tom Cruise is a moderately competent actor. Don't put him in every damn film.



7. If your training is perfect, your nutrition is perfect, and your supplementation is perfect, and you still aren't making progress, it's likely your pickle consumption that's holding you back.

8. Research in training can only be used as a guide. Research is a perfectly controlled situation; the real world is different.

The best you can take from the research is that with group A for B weeks under C conditions, we experience D results to E stimulus. So under the exact same A, B, C, D, and E conditions, you might have something you can use. Otherwise it's more of a guide.

And, in any effect, research is typically playing catch up – studying (or trying to disprove) what coaches are already doing. Only a combination of the research and the real world will be useful.

9. A complete training program has to include movement preparation, flexibility work, injury prevention work, core work, cardiovascular work, strength training, and recovery/regeneration. Most programs cover, at best, two of those.

A lot of training programs only cover the strength training portion. Be well rounded; address everything. Adding in one stretching session per week and developing your own good warm-up routine will go a long way in helping your results.

10. "Methods are many, principles are few
Methods may change, but principles never do."

Keep this in your head when evaluating programs. The principles of boxing are pretty much written in stone, but the methods that Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson used are different. If your program violates the simple principles of training (such as overload) it doesn't matter how cool it looks, it won't work.

11. Regardless of pesticides, fructose levels, etc., people who eat the most fruits and vegetables are healthier than those who eat the least. You're going to have a hard time convincing me that the current obesity epidemic is a result of people eating too many apples!

12. Get a foam roller and use it. Don't worry about the strength, size, or flexibility of your muscles until you work on the quality of the tissue.



13. I've never gotten dumber from reading any book (with the possible exception of "My Life: The Paris Hilton Story"). It always makes me smile when I hear people asking, "Is this book worth it?" I can honestly say I've never read anything that didn't enhance my knowledge in some way. Knowledge is the only guaranteed slump-buster in any field.

Charlie Jones once said, "Five years from now, you will be exactly the same, apart from the people you meet and the books you've read." Read a book a week. Elite coach Mike Boyle once told me though, "Don't believe everything you read. But definitely don't just read what you believe."

14. Most beginners need to train more on a regular basis. Advanced guys need to train less but train harder.

15. No one ever improved from just training; they improved from recovering from training. Training plus recovery = results. Pay as much attention to both to really reap the rewards.

16. I got punched in the spine once in a Taekwon-Do match. Interesting thing is, my opponent went through my stomach and ribcage to do it. I got real interested in core training after that.

17. Your body can't differentiate between stressors. Stress is like water from hundreds of taps flowing into a bathtub. Financial stress, relationships, health, and training stress are all different taps. When all the other taps are flowing full blast, turn down the training tap a little bit so your tub doesn't overflow.

18. Ninety percent of all supplements out there don't do shit.

There are very few supplements that'll do anything. Supplements are what I consider "progress accelerators." If your current training and diet isn't getting you bigger or leaner or whatever your goal is, then adding a supplement won't help you. Supplements help to speed up the results you're already getting.

19. If you train lower body twice a week, unloading the spine in the second workout and doing dumbbell step-ups, split squats, glute-ham raises, etc. will make a big difference to your overall strength and recovery.

20. Most athletes and people in general need to focus more on unilateral (single leg) lower body work than bilateral (both legs) lower body work. For non-powerlifters, most of life occurs on one leg. As a result, the single leg versions are more muscularly specific. In addition, by loading only one leg, the load on the back is decreased by 50%, another huge advantage.

21. In training for power, there are two main sides to the debate. Komi suggests using sub-maximal load with fast repetitions. Schmidtbleicher suggests the intent to move the bar fast is more important than the actual bar speed. Both are probably right.

22. My Taekwon-do instructor, Derek Campbell, is in my opinion the single greatest coaching mind on the planet, and by far one of the single biggest influences on my thinking today.

I have no doubt he could've coached me for the first half of a fight and had me winning, and switched corners halfway and had the other guy beat me. He took a skinny no-talent kid like myself and turned him into a champion. He's the kind of person that changed someone's life for the better. What kind of person are you?

23. Skinny guys always think it's their training. Fat guys always think it's their diet. Usually skinny guys need a better diet and fat guys need a better training program.

24. The recent trend to do low reps for fat loss is interesting. Actually, a lot of coaches seem to recommend low reps for everything: strength, gaining size, gaining strength without size, fat loss... everything!

So basically it's just one program then, eh? Uh, no.

25. In all my years, I've never seen anyone lose these massive amounts of muscle that
everyone is talking about when dieting.

26. Training a body part once a week is dumb. The body responds better to frequent exposure. You don't eat once a week, take all your supplements once a week, or train your heart (cardio) once a week, so why treat the rest of your body any different?

You can't really split up a workout by body part very effectively anyway. For example, a bentover row is a "back" exercise, but a Romanian deadlift is a hamstring exercise, despite the fact that a bentover row involves one long isometric Romanian deadlift hold! So is it really a hamstring exercise instead? Do you see what I mean? The classification is flawed.




27. At some point, the time taken and risk involved to improve X lift by Y pounds won't be worth the benefit for most of us. But you may not be at that point yet.

28. Eighty percent of your results come from 20% of your efforts. It's a cliché, and it's been said a thousand times, but that doesn't make it any less true.

The real skill however is in finding out what the effective 20% of your efforts is. In training, it's pretty much squatting and deadlifting. Make sure, regardless of your goals, that your program includes some form of squats or deadlift variations.

29. Be real. It doesn't matter what people think of you. What matters is what you think of you. Of course, if I don't think much of you, you can pretty much take it to the bank.

30. Having cancer changed my attitude on everything. Unfortunately, it took being faced with death before I really appreciated life. As Margaretta Rockefeller said, "Once you've been confronted with a life and death situation, trivia no longer matters. Your perspective grows and you live at a deeper level. There is no time for pettiness."

31. Surround yourself with good people. You don't have to know it all; you just have to know who to ask to find out. I'm in a lucky position in that I can consider some of the best trainers on the planet my friends.

32. At some point, your parents will pass away. Treasure the times you have with them. You probably won't appreciate this advice until it's too late. So call your Mom on Sunday, you bastard.

33. In terms of getting results with people, in a head to head competition I think I could hang with anyone in the field. There are only a few coaches out there that I'd be concerned about. You are not one of them.

34. If this article is "exactly what you're looking for," then you are a mindless clown.

[Soldier Zero]

*snip*

Good read.


Alright, here's the diet program created by my former gym teacher (Michael Pollard).






QUICK FIX/QUICK START PROGRAM

The following program is designed to lose both bodyweight and body fat percentage. You must follow the program exactly as outlined; no changes or substitutions allowed.

FOODS TO AVOID

all beef products, whole milk products (cheese, milk, ice cream, yogurt, chocolate milk), all kinds of nuts except almonds and walnuts, all fried foods, white bread products, whole eggs, all pork products, mayonnaise, butter, soups made with corn starch (such as sea food chowders), sour cream, cream cheese, salt, sugar, all pies, cakes, and candy products, no cold cuts of any kid

FOODS TO INCLUDE

skinless chicken and turkey (white meat is less fatty than the dark meat), fish (tuna, salmon, sole, haddack, ect., no shrimp or lobster), veal, lamb. Remember that broiling, steaming, roasting are the only acceptable ways of cooking during this phase of the program. 1% milk products, Smart Beat spread is the best brand to use for flavoring bread and other things, egg whites, dark whole grain breads, English muffins, bagels (not the ones made with eggs, coffee, tea, all green and yellow vegetables, rice, baked potato, unsalted and unbuttered popcorn, beans of all kinds (lentils are the best), all fresh fruits, raisins, prunes, pancakes made with 100% whole wheat flour, soda.

THE BASIC PROGRAM
1. You must drink 8 eight ounce glasses of water a day. Space them out during the day, but start each meal with a glass of water before you start to eat.
2. The only cooking oil to use is CANOLA OIL- it has no fat, and no cholesterol whatsoever.
3. Serving sizes of meat or fish should limited to 8 ounces.
4, You must have both a cup of green and yellow vegetables at lunch and dinner.
5. Rice and a baked potato can be substituted for one of the green and/or yellow vegetables, no topping on the baked potato except Smart Beat spread.
6. Don't miss your metabolic enhancers - these are snacks that you can have between meals.

SAMPLE BREAKFAST PROGRAM

glass of water, glass of 1% milk, one serving of oatmeal mixed with 4 egg whites/3 pancakes made with 100% whol wheat flour/English muffin or bagel with melted low-fat cheese and low-fat tomato sauce/2 cups of fresh mixed fruit or canned fruit in natural juices/unlimited amount of hard-boiled egg whites.

LUNCH

a glass of water, one eight ounce serving of meat or fish/ sandwiches are made with whole grain dark breads only/one tossed salad mixed with cooked chicken, turkey, or fish/one cup each of a green and yellow vegetable, or one baked potato, or one cup of rice/one glass of 1% milk, or coffee, or tea/one cup of fresh fruit or canned fruit in natural juices.

DINNER

a glass of water, dinner is basically the same as lunch/two slices of cheese pizza can be eaten at dinner as a variety but only once a week during this phase of the program.

METABOLIC ENHANCERS

The most important aspect of this program is what you eat between major meals to keep your metabolism running high and burning fat. The following are the only acceptable metabolic enhancers:

fresh fruit, hard-boiled egg whites, one box of raisins, two celery stalks, two raw carrots, one eight ounce cup of unsalted and unbuttered popcorn, one-half bagel, one-half English muffin, one-half corn muffin, one-half bran muffin.

Between your breakfast and lunch, space out equally two metabolic enhancers, and the same between lunch and dinner. After dinner, your last metabolic enhancer should be two to three hours afterwards. You are to eat nothing after the evening metabolic enhancer, before you go to bed, make sure you have consumed all the water for that day.

Just some other things to also mention.

-If followed fully without doing any cadio, you lose 1/4 of a pound a day.
-I'm pretty sure 100% all natural fruit juices are acceptable drinks.
-100% whole wheat pancakes might taste like crap at first so start off with 50% regular flour and 50% whole wheat then change the ratio slowly to get use to the taste.
-Remember that all meat can only be prepared by steaming, broiling, and roasting.
-8 eight ounce glasses (64 ounces) of water a day is the minimum; you should really try to drink 1 ounce of water for every pound you weigh. If you have trouble doing that, just do the 8 eight ounce glasses.

That's all I can think of from the top of my head. I never really needed this (yet), but I did adopt some things from it just to be a healthier. Hope this helps for anyone who needs it. :tup:

[HeaT]

It's easy to fall into training bodyparts instead of movements....once programmed most people become very close minded to different methods of training....especially if they have seen ANY results at all...And yes there are tons of studies...just people disregard them like you are now...The most basic study done states that when you provide stimulus to muscle tissue via resistance training, protein synthesis is elevated for a window of 48 hours...so by targeting a muscle once a week...that muscle is growing 2 days a week out of 7. If you go to T-Nation you can find ALL KINDS of articles written by elite fitness coaches who are completely against body part splits....mike boyle and alwyn cosgrove are two that come to mind...shoot them an email and they will be glad to provide you with all the studies and evidence you can stand.


It's not though...Oly lifters and powerlifters alike all train certain movements multiple times a week. This comes back to people not wanting to be open minded....well what if I told you that your favorite body part split works shoulders 3 times a week? Chest one day....back another...shoulders on it's own day....all these days work shoulders, whether you want to admit it or not. Everytime you grab a dumbell or a barbell for a compound lift...you are working your shoulders, if ever so slightly...via shoulder adduction, abduction, or external rotation. This is one of the reasons shoulder injuries/imbalances are so common in the everyday gym.


here is the thing right, PRIMARILY working out something 4 times a weak for BODYBUILDING is not good, you are talking about powerlifters and olympic lifters who lift for different reasons...

im not disregarding anything, there are a tone of studies done and most of the ones i read said there is nothing wrong with only working out a body part per week...

the thing is, that most of this shit is dependent on the individual, for example you could find a study that says this is most effective but there will be a TONE of people who exist who that shit will not be the most effective for...

im outi

Roberth

ps...i get most of my information from my former boss when i worked at the uofa gym, who trains olympic athletes and has a masters in health sciences, he always gave a the newest articles and journals written about weight training, really interesting shit they find...

[MagnusMadness]

here is the thing right, PRIMARILY working out something 4 times a weak for BODYBUILDING is not good, you are talking about powerlifters and olympic lifters who lift for different reasons...

Regardless of why they lift, they are still, for the most part, doing the same exercises...and if they were overtraining they wouldn't keep getting stronger and stronger...they would peak and eventually injure themselves. They just train in different rep schemes to better cause neural adaptations to take place. And they train movements and not bodyparts...like we should...About primarily working a bodypart...if I do full body routines 3x a week, I'm primarily training my entire body 3x a week....are you saying something's wrong with that??



im not disregarding anything, there are a tone of studies done and most of the ones i read said there is nothing wrong with only working out a body part per week...

There isn't anything WRONG per say, with working a bodypart once a week....but it's far from the best thing for a bodybuilder to be doing now....show me studies that show conclusively that less hypertrophy is better for optimal growth...



the thing is, that most of this shit is dependent on the individual, for example you could find a study that says this is most effective but there will be a TONE of people who exist who that shit will not be the most effective for...

There are certain genetic factors and medical issues to be taken into consideration when training someone or training yourself....but we are not THAT much different....we all have chests and biceps...we should all be squatting and deadlifting our way to reaching our goals.



ps...i get most of my information from my former boss when i worked at the uofa gym, who trains olympic athletes and has a masters in health sciences, he always gave a the newest articles and journals written about weight training, really interesting shit they find...

Olympic LIFTERS?? Or olympic athletes?? There's a difference....and if he has oly lifters training body parts and not movements.....then he is a hack and I will tell him that to his face.

im outi

[MagnusMadness]

here's another article I found on t nation supporting high frequency routines for accelerated growth....see guys...this shit is not controversial...It's actually a pretty popular way of training among people in the know.


Perfect 10 Training
High Frequency Training for Hypertrophy
by Chad Waterbury


More is Better

As a former bouncer, I've encountered many esoteric individuals in my life. I guess anyone could say the same, but those who choose to spend the better part of their lives as bouncers are a bit abnormal. Moreover, I can honestly say that the bouncers I've worked with have given me some of the best (and worst) advice I've ever heard.

One of the more memorable axioms I've been told was from a bouncer in Chicago. He said, "CW, fighting ain't cool. Just remember, two wrongs don't make a right. Therefore, you should always hit 'em three times." That advice came in rather handy on an occasion or two, but honestly, I'm glad those days are long gone.

Since I now spend my days writing articles, I've found it useful to devise my own maxims. A well-designed program is useful, but general rules and philosophies will help readers more than any conglomeration of sets and reps. So what's my maxim? It's this:

If you seek hypertrophy (size gains) at the fastest possible rate, the more often you can train a muscle group the better.

I've made that statement on a few occasions, but I doubt most readers have made a diligent effort to apply and understand the veracity of it. Indeed, a properly periodized, high-frequency training plan will cause the fastest level of hypertrophy — bar none.


What High Frequency Training Means

The term "high frequency" is very vague. For some, this would probably mean that they should bump up their frequency of training each body part to three times per week. For others, high frequency training would mean nothing short of training each body part twice each day for six days a week.

Well, both parties are correct because everything in life (and training) is relative. If you've only been training each body part once every 5-7 days, then training every body part for three sessions each week would create an appreciable stimulus for hypertrophy.

On the other hand, those who currently train each body part for 3-4 sessions per week are advised to focus on multiple daily training sessions.

What's the point of this talk? The points are given in an effort to help you understand how complex this issue is to tackle since I must cater to thousands of readers (i.e. thousands of fitness levels). Indeed, the Perfect 10 program has been nothing short of an extraordinary undertaking. Before we get to the parameters, let me explain the genesis of this program.


The Cirque du Soleil Factor

As a physiologist, 2001 turned out to be a profoundly influential year in my life. Specifically, that was the year that I first attended the Cirque du Soleil show called Mystere. The show opened up my mind to accept training methodologies that I'd never previously considered. And it subsequently led to many of my most effective training regimes — regimes that I've never written about, until now.

I heard about the show through various clients of mine, but I never would've guessed what I was about to see. For those of you who aren't familiar with Cirque shows, I can tell you that they're some of the most invigorating, inspirational, and mind-blowing displays of physical prowess that you'll ever encounter. Not only do these performers possess remarkable levels of strength and flexibility, but they also have some of the most extraordinarily-developed bodies that you'll ever see.



As I sat through the show, I thought about their training regimens. I thought, how in the hell did these guys build such proportionally huge lats, delts, and upper arms? Was it Mentzer's Ayn Rand infused ranting that led them to this physique? Well, since their schedule consisted of up to twelve shows each week, I found it easy to dissolve that line of thinking.

Was it the incredible levels of training intensity with a primary focus on the eccentric muscle actions? After all, numerous skeletal muscle research studies have demonstrated the notion that the eccentric phase of training (the negative or lowering part of an exercise) leads to the most damage, thus the most perceived muscle growth. Nope, couldn't be since such training methods would leave them in a state of stiffness, soreness, and poor athletic performance (during the recovery phase).

Instead, they must have found a "sweet spot" within their training parameters that allowed them to induce a stimulus sufficient for muscle growth without burning out their skeletal and neural systems. Based on what virtually every strength coach, fitness writer, and muscle magazine recommended, such a training regime just didn't seem possible.

Hmmm, it seemed I'd stumbled upon a puzzle that had many missing pieces.


My Serendipitous Experience

That night I went back to my hotel room and decided to belly-up to the bar for a pre-bedtime toddy (usually I stick with ZMA, but this was Vegas, after all). The bartender opened up a conversation with, "What'd you do tonight?" I told him about the Cirque show and he replied, "Those two dudes who do incredible acrobatic tricks with each other? They're brothers and they're neighbors of mine."

He went on to explain that they spend the better part of their day practicing the Cirque routine. He further expounded on the issue by saying, "Yeah, I often look out my window and see them in their backyard for hours perfecting the routine." Man, I thought, these guys possess two of the most incredible physiques I've ever seen and they're training with an unbelievable level of frequency — a level of frequency that I've never read about from any "expert."



I probably got about three hours of sleep that night. I just couldn't stop wondering how these performers built up their capacity to withstand such training frequency. Then I started to question myself and thought that it must be genetics, drugs, or a combination of the two. But that line of thinking quickly shifted when I thought about my own experiences.

I thought about the soccer players I'd encountered and the level of calf development they displayed. Then I thought about the mechanics I'd befriended over the years in my hometown — all with massive, ripped forearms. I also reminisced about the times I achieved the fastest, most profound levels of hypertrophy in a given muscle group.

In college, I spent the summers working for an apartment complex and one of my primary duties consisted of pulling mattresses up and down stairwells. I'd do this for hours throughout the entire week. I gained an inch of upper arm girth after three weeks of this "mattress labor." I'd never gained a full inch of arm girth on any training routine in such a short period of time.

Viola! The answer to the puzzle must be hidden within high-frequency training parameters that didn't annihilate my muscles on a daily basis. I couldn't wait to get back to Tucson and start my own experimentation.


6 Caveats

Well, that was four years ago, and I must say that it's taken this long to find an answer. Why so long? Here's why:

1) Hypertrophy Training Dogma — First and foremost, the pertinacity of the exercise community is rather large. Therefore, some of my "non-paying" clientele didn't follow my high-frequency training parameters precisely as I prescribed. As such, I've been forced to scrap my data on a number of occasions.

2) Training Tenacity — This goes along with point #1. You must be persistent with high-frequency training plans in order to reap the benefits. A week or two of high-frequency training won't give you the results you want. The idea of high-frequency training is to build up your work capacity and specific muscle fitness to levels that the system has yet to encounter.

3) Lack of Recovery Aids — Stretching and ice massage are mandatory during the initial periods of high-frequency training. Those who didn't follow my recovery modalities often burned-out in a matter of weeks. On the other hand, those who did perform stretching and ice massage as prescribed excelled and built muscle faster than ever before.

4) Lack of Personal Ingenuity — The Perfect 10 training plan mandates numerous exercise variations. Since it's not possible for me to personally train thousands of readers, a little ingenuity is necessary. You must understand that even the slightest variations in hand position, foot placement, one-arm exercises, and switching from dumbbells to barbells for any given exercise is sufficient to be termed a "different exercise."

5) Overzealous Trainees — For some, too much just isn't enough. As such, a few people I worked with took the ball and ran way past the end zone on the first carry. In other words, they tried to do too much too fast, and they burned out.

6) Limited Training Schedules — Obviously, high-frequency training is only ideal for those who can follow such a schedule. If you're one of the ones who can make time to train for 2-3 sessions per week, this info isn't for you. Now, this isn't to say that we should all quit our jobs and follow Kevin Spacey's character in American Beauty, but high-frequency training does mandate some lifestyle changes. That's a big pill to swallow for many weekend warriors.

Now, with those caveats out of the way, I'm here to give you a program that'll induce hypertrophy at a rate that's faster than you've ever experienced. But, please be diligent with my entire prescription. If you skimp on a single element, you'll suffer — trust me.


Perfect 10 Training Guidelines

1. Choose 1-2 body parts that you want to improve the most.

When you embark on a high-frequency training plan, overtraining is always knocking at your door. Therefore, it's necessary to not bombard your entire body with such parameters. Most people only have a few lagging body parts. If you're one of those who needs to improve everything, this program isn't for you, so I suggest you perform my Anti-Bodybuilding Hypertrophy, Total Body Training, Waterbury Method, and the Art of Waterbury programs in order to build up your musculature. This program is for those who need to bring up underdeveloped body parts at the fastest possible rate.

2. Perform a different exercise for each session throughout the week.

There are countless different exercises for every body part, so this shouldn't be too tough to follow. Let's take chest exercises for example. If you're attempting to improve your chest development, there are hundreds of exercise variations when you consider: all of the angles between a 30 degree decline and a 45 degree incline, variations in arm/hand position (pronated and semi-supinated), and variations in dumbbells, barbells, and cables.

Make a diligent effort to list every possible exercise that your available equipment allows. Both compound and single-joint exercises are fair game in this program. The more variations and options you have, the greater your success will be.

3. Don't worry about the tempo of your muscle actions and don't accentuate the negative.

Considering how many sets and sessions you'll be performing each week, you should be ecstatic about this rule. Just lift as fast as possible while maintaining perfect form and controlling the negative portion. Any eccentric portion longer than two seconds is excessive during this program. We aren't attempting to annihilate the muscles; we're trying to provide a sufficient stimulus for growth without causing undo strain.

4. Perform stretches and ice massage after the prescribed sessions.

There exist a myriad of stretching methods but this program only mandates static stretching. Each prescribed session should consist of four static stretches for the trained muscle group. Hold the muscle in the stretched position for 30 seconds, then rest for 30 seconds before repeating three more times. It's that simple.

Ice massage should be performed with a Cryocup or a paper cup filled with ice. Use one Cryocup or one paper cup on each side of the body. Once the cup is empty, perform the same technique on the other side of the body. Use long, deep strokes and apply baby oil or olive oil to your skin to avoid ice burn. Perform ice massage within two hours of your training session.



The Cryocup. You can also make your own by freezing a Styrofoam cup and peeling away part of it.

5. Learn to train through soreness.

Soreness is your new friend so learn to love it. This program causes continuous soreness for the first few weeks of training (at least). Slowly but surely, over time you'll find that you become less sore. That's a good thing! But you must understand that you need to force your muscles to train more often. All of that infrequent training dogma will be run over by your newfound high-frequency karma.

6. Train the rest of your body as usual.

You don't need to alter the rest of your current program. In other words, feel free to train your other muscles groups as usual. If you incorporate Perfect 10 training for chest and triceps, just omit those exercises from your current program. Think of Perfect 10 as an addition to the program you're following (actually, a supercharger would be more accurate).


The Program

Here's what you've been waiting for! You're probably wondering why this program is titled Perfect 10 Training. That's because (surprise!) I'm going to outline a program that leads to training your lagging body parts for ten sessions each week! Think of this program as the antithesis to the mythical Colorado Experiment.

Pull out that Zippo and get ready to light the stick of muscular dynamite!

WEEK 1

Addendum for Weeks 1-4: Perform for one or two body parts. Choose one exercise for each body part, each day. Stretch after each session.

DAY 1
Sets: 6
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s (70 seconds)
Load: 6RM (6 reps max)

DAY 2: Off

DAY 3
Sets: 3
Reps: 10
Rest: 120s
Load: 12RM

DAY 4: Off

DAY 5
Sets: 5
Reps: 5
Rest: 90s
Load: 8RM

DAYS 6 & 7: Off


WEEK 2

DAY 1
Sets: 7
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 6RM

DAY 2
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 3
Sets: 4
Reps: 10
Rest: 120s
Load: 12RM

DAY 4: Off

DAY 5
Sets: 6
Reps: 5
Rest: 90s
Load: 8RM

DAYS 6 & 7: Off


WEEK 3

DAY 1
Sets: 8
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 6RM

DAY 2
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 3
Sets: 5
Reps: 10
Rest: 120s
Load: 12RM

DAY 4: Off

DAY 5
Sets: 7
Reps: 5
Rest: 90s
Load: 8RM

DAY 6
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 7: Off


WEEK 4

DAY 1
Sets: 3
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 5RM

DAY 2: Off

DAY 3
Sets: 3
Reps: 8
Rest: 120s
Load: 12RM

DAY 4: Off

DAY 5
Sets: 2
Reps: 12
Rest: 90s
Load: 15RM

DAYS 6 & 7: Off


WEEK 5

Addendum for Weeks 5-8: Perform for one or two body parts. Choose one exercise for each body part, each day. There must be at least 6 hours between AM/PM sessions. Stretch after each session. Perform ice massage when prescribed.

DAY 1

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 5RM

PM
Sets: 3
Reps: 8
Rest: 120s
Load: 12RM
Ice Massage

DAY 2: Off

DAY 3

AM
Sets: 2
Reps: 12
Rest: 90s
Load: 15RM

PM
Sets: 3
Reps: 5
Rest: 90s
Load: 8RM
Ice Massage

DAY 4: Off

DAY 5

AM
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

PM
Sets: 1
Reps: 12
Rest: NA
Load: 12RM
Note: This set should be taken to concentric failure only.
Ice Massage

DAYS 6 & 7: Off


WEEK 6

DAY 1

AM
Sets: 4
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 5RM

PM
Sets: 4
Reps: 8
Rest: 120s
Load: 12RM
Ice Massage

DAY 2
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 3

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 12
Rest: 90s
Load: 15RM

PM
Sets: 4
Reps: 5
Rest: 90s
Load: 8RM
Ice Massage

DAY 4: Off

DAY 5

AM
Sets: 4
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 6RM

PM
Sets: 1
Reps: 15
Rest: NA
Load: 15RM
Note: This set should be taken to concentric failure only.
Ice Massage

DAY 6
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 7: Off


WEEK 7

DAY 1

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 8
Rest: 90s
Load: 10RM

PM
Sets: 2
Reps: 20
Rest: 180s
Load: 24RM
Ice Massage

DAY 2
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 3

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 5RM

PM
Sets: 3
Reps: 12
Rest: 120s
Load: 15RM
Ice Massage

DAY 4
Set: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 5

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 5RM

PM
Sets: 1
Reps: 10
Rest: NA
Load: 10RM
Note: This set should be taken to concentric failure only.
Ice Massage

DAY 6
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 7: Off


WEEK 8

Off completely from training the muscle group(s).


WEEK 9

DAY 1

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 5
Rest: 70s
Load: 7RM

PM
Sets: 2
Reps: 15
Rest: 120s
Load: 18RM
Ice Massage

DAY 2
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 3

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 5RM

PM
Sets: 2
Reps: 20
Rest: 180s
Load: 22RM
Ice Massage

DAY 4
Set: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 5

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 10
Rest: 120s
Load: 12RM

PM
Sets: 6
Reps: 3
Rest: 90s
Load: 5RM
Ice Massage

DAY 6

AM
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

PM
Set: 1
Reps: 50
Load: 50RM (~25% of 1RM)

DAY 7: Off


Once you've completed week 9, you're officially a high-frequency protégé! If you follow the program precisely as prescribed, and if you avoid failure (except on the designated days) you'll have helped to beget a new revolution of hypertrophy training.

Who knows, maybe your newfound hypertrophy from the Perfect 10 program will help you land your own "perfect 10." I believe that the sublime Marisa Miller is the apotheosis of the other perfect 10!

[adonis_minus_20]

I find all of this information regarding training approaches interesting. I used to lift every other day with a sort of full body routine, but it just became too much for me. I only lift 3x/week now, like below (all nautilus type machines unless specified). I always do ab work when I lift also. Let me know what you guys think, thanks.

Ab Stuff:

Leg Raises 3x20
Crunches 1x100
Weighted Crunches 3x40

Sunday: Chest and Biceps

Incline Bench 3x8
Biangular Incline Bench 3x8
Pec Flys 3x8
Curls 3x8
DB Curls 3x8

Monday: Cardio (usually an hour or so intense jogging or equivalent)

Tuesday: Back and Triceps

Shoulder Press 3x8
Biangular Should Press 3x8
Rowing 3x8
Biangular Rowing 3x8
Lat Pulldown 3x8
Wide-Grip Pullups 3x5
Reverse Curls 3x8
Tricep Type Pulldown 3x8

Wednesday: Cardio (usually an hour or so intense jogging or equivalent)

Thursday: Legs

Glute Extensions 6x8
Squats 6x8
Leg Extensions (Hamstrings) 6x8
Leg Extensions (Quads) 3x8
Leg Curls (Calves) 6x8

Friday: Cardio (usually an hour or so intense jogging or equivalent)

Saturday: Cardio (usually an hour or so intense jogging or equivalent)

Jim

[MagnusMadness]

Sunday: Chest and Biceps

Incline Bench 3x8
Biangular Incline Bench 3x8
Pec Flys 3x8
Curls 3x8
DB Curls 3x8

This is fine...alot of people do chest and tri's together, since they work together so much already, but I have no problems with chest and bi's


Tuesday: Back and Triceps

Shoulder Press 3x8
Biangular Should Press 3x8
Rowing 3x8
Biangular Rowing 3x8
Lat Pulldown 3x8
Wide-Grip Pullups 3x5
Reverse Curls 3x8
Tricep Type Pulldown 3x8

Ok, you are actually doing back, tri's AND shoulders...you got too much going on this day....over 24 sets not counting the ab work that you say you do with it...the volume is VERY high, ESPECIALLY in comparison with ur chest/bi workout which is only 15 sets...and reverse curls is more for bi's and forearms...so you can drop that altogether on this day.


Thursday: Legs

Glute Extensions 6x8
Squats 6x8
Leg Extensions (Hamstrings) 6x8
Leg Extensions (Quads) 3x8
Leg Curls (Calves) 6x8

I don't know if you meant to hit "6x8" cuz that puts the volume on this day even higher than the last at 27 sets before ab work....Some squats...Leg extensions and leg curls are pretty much enough for legs...All I did today was Squats, SLDL's and Lunges, then calf raises and some ab work...I was done in less than an hour...

[Soldier Zero]

Yesterday went to GNC to check the price of my protein shake there, it was $50. :rolleyes: Overpriced bastards.

Ordered it online for $25 + $5 s&h.

Anyone here cook with fish oil? How's overall taste? Is it expensive?

[adonis_minus_20]

Ok, you are actually doing back, tri's AND shoulders...you got too much going on this day....over 24 sets not counting the ab work that you say you do with it...the volume is VERY high, ESPECIALLY in comparison with ur chest/bi workout which is only 15 sets...and reverse curls is more for bi's and forearms...so you can drop that altogether on this day.


I guess they're not really reverse curls, that's just what it made me think of. It's a nautilus machine that's for triceps, just a different kind of motion. What if I move the shoulder press sets to my Chest/Bis day?


I don't know if you meant to hit "6x8" cuz that puts the volume on this day even higher than the last at 27 sets before ab work....Some squats...Leg extensions and leg curls are pretty much enough for legs...All I did today was Squats, SLDL's and Lunges, then calf raises and some ab work...I was done in less than an hour...

Yeah, I did mean 6x8, I guess that's too much. So if I go to 3x8 for each, that's better?

Thanks for the reply.

Jim

[b1gazn]

Some squats...Leg extensions and leg curls are pretty much enough for legs...All I did today was Squats, SLDL's and Lunges, then calf raises and some ab work...I was done in less than an hour...
I do those and the hamstring curls.

How do I get rid of the cottage cheese in my groin area? That junk is pretty flabby. :rofl: :wink:

[BEEFCAKE]

from what I been reading/doing myself, cardio is king to burning fat, especially in the abdominal area.

[Gackt]

I want to gain muscle and lose weight so is it a good idea to eat just 2 small meals a day. Thanks

[denjin]

Working out something 4 times a week doesn't really trip me out that much.

The part that messes my head up is that you aren't actually 'killing' the muscle and yet there's still growth?

I guess my 'dogmatic' thinking is in the idea that in order to grow you have to AT LEAST get to the threshold if not surpass it.

[JuiceM0nkey]

from what I been reading/doing myself, cardio is king to burning fat, especially in the abdominal area.

Cardio will burn fat, but it will also burn muscle if your not smart about it! Just eat clean and you won't have to do that much cardio.

Hell if your diet is clean enough you will see your abs even without doing any type of ab exercises, or you can eat junk and fast food, do 500 reps of abs a day and still never see you abs!:wgrin:

[Soldier Zero]

I want to gain muscle and lose weight so is it a good idea to eat just 2 small meals a day. Thanks

That's a horrible idea.

[MagnusMadness]

Working out something 4 times a week doesn't really trip me out that much.

The part that messes my head up is that you aren't actually 'killing' the muscle and yet there's still growth?

I guess my 'dogmatic' thinking is in the idea that in order to grow you have to AT LEAST get to the threshold if not surpass it.


The old dogma is by killing a muscle it will grow back bigger and stronger right?? Well it's in fact hypertrophy that should be our goal and this can be achieved without destroying one muscle group at a time. Completely killing a muscle just causes more micro trauma, thereby slowing recovery and potentially burning out your CNS in the process.

A good point I don't know if you guys saw in an earlier post of mine...

"skinny guys think it's their training, fat guys think it's their diet....when skinny guys need a better a diet and fat guys probably need a better program."

Alot of people get stuck in a rut because in the never ending quest for size and strength, they think more is better. If gains stagnate, they add reps and sets...begin to flirt with overtraining...sometimes overtraining and not even knowing it...start losing a little sleep at night, begin to be more tired during the day, not seeing gains in the gym from week to week....start losing interest in weightlifting altogether and now they are losing weight because they haven't been in the gym in 2 months and they're not eating near what they should be.

[Remy Martin]

yo perry when we gonna hit up legs im going to do my old routine tonight but friday i want to work out with you also do me a favor write me up a routine to give me next time and good luck with the personal training...

[BEEFCAKE]

hrm I work out about 5x a day, take my protein about 2-3x a day an eat healthy, lots of fish an greens, anyhow Im also takin a creatine supplement. My question is Im doing about 15-30 min of cardio on my workout and non workout days, Ill switch it up going one day for 15 an the next for 30, I know everyones body is different but does that plan sit well with some of you?
Also is it a good idea to add more glutamine to my protein/flax shake? Considering my protein mix already has glutamine I hear/been reading that its good to have more of it.

thanks

[Chaos]

Glutamine supplementation is uneccessary and wasteful. Read back somewhere in this thread and its debated. To recap ZERO scientific studies show it has beneficial effects on healthy weight trainers.

[MagnusMadness]

yo perry when we gonna hit up legs im going to do my old routine tonight but friday i want to work out with you also do me a favor write me up a routine to give me next time and good luck with the personal training...



Just workout with me, I need a training partner. You basically have a free personal trainer in a private facility..well not TOO private...don't go gettin any ideas.....cock ***....

[Chaos]

Perry I'm in this weekend from friday to tuesday. If you wanna get in 3 or so workouts let me know. I'm a week into a nearly contest type cut though so don't expect miracles. I'm trying to take this next 10 weeks and really shoot for ripped. Tuna/Chicken and shakes here I come.

[denjin]

How often to switch rep schemes? On a per body part set, is it too often to switch it every time I cycle back to the body part?

On a full body set, is it too often to switch it per week?


I am trying to eat about every 2-3 hours nowadays. I think that's great for my metabolism.

1. Is that a good frequency?
2. How MUCH should I be consuming? Seeing as how I'll probably never measure food out into grams, how full should I feel?

[Remy Martin]

i just cant help myself when that testosterone gets flowing...

[denjin]

Oh man!! Sorry for spamming.


Alright shu, as promised ur full body program...to be done in this fashion...on/off/on/off/on/off/off.

Day 1:
Squats (quad dominant)
Bench Press (horizontal push)
Bent Rows (horizontal pull)
Hyper Extensions (hip/ham dominant)
Standing BB Military Press (vertical push)
Close Grip Lat Pulldowns (vertical pull)

Since you are kinduva newb, I want you doing 12-15 rep sets the first couple weeks with this program....once you are CERTAIN that form is flawless and stabilizers are up to the challenge of heavier weights...periodize in this manner

Week 1: 3x6-8 reps
Week 2: 3x8-12
Week 3: 3x10, supersetting movements on opposing planes....for example...on day 1 week 3 you would superset bench presses and bent rows...and superset the arnolds and CG lat pulldowns.
Week 4 (UNLOAD): 2x15 light weights.
Repeat....except next week 4, instead of unloading...just take the week off. At this point, you might try a different program or a different form of periodization....If you like it alot, then after the third cycle, start changing exercises, keeping them on the corresponding movement planes..and definitely change forms of periodization...I like undulating periodization too. Or you could do linear too...here's a couple examples


MagnusMadness:
Is there a reason for the order of the sets of day 1, day 2, day 3?

aka, why not do military press as a starter?

[MagnusMadness]

MagnusMadness:
Is there a reason for the order of the sets of day 1, day 2, day 3?

aka, why not do military press as a starter?

yes, there is a reason....Everyday starts with either a quad or hip dominant leg movement....and from there we start with either a push or pull on a horizontal or vertical plane...each day we will train the different types of movements in a different order (still in an organized fashion) to provide somewhat a different kind of stimulus or to train all the movements in a non fatigued state....example...one day we start with bench press....then later we will do military presses, well when we get to military presses the shoulders may be somewhat worked/fatigued as well as the triceps and chest...another day we do military pressing earlier in the workout so as to get to it fresh..and we will bench slightly fatigued. Still with me??


How often to switch rep schemes? On a per body part set, is it too often to switch it every time I cycle back to the body part?

On a full body set, is it too often to switch it per week?


I am trying to eat about every 2-3 hours nowadays. I think that's great for my metabolism.

1. Is that a good frequency?
2. How MUCH should I be consuming? Seeing as how I'll probably never measure food out into grams, how full should I feel?

You can periodize almost in a crazy frequent manner or just weekly, or monthly...however, weekly is popular...

If you are on a body part split then by all means change rep schemes every time you hit it...Just plan ahead as to how you are going to do it...and pick only 3 or so rep schemes to cycle through. Maybe every 3 cycles or so, change up the form of periodization or change exercises.

With full body routines you can do several things...you can change it weekly, or every day if you want to...which is pretty fun sometimes....Example...Full body routines 3x a week. Day1: 3x10, Day2: 5x5, Day3: 2x15

Yes, eating every 2-3 hours is awesome....not only will your metabolism be very healthy, but your body will remain in an anabolic (growth) state non-stop....just be sure to be eating from the time you wake to when you go to bed.

Your second question should always be answered in calories...and that can only be answered by yourself. The calories you are trying to take in on a daily basis should be divivded up evenly among the 5-6 meals a day you are consuming. If I'm shooting for 5000 cals a day, then each meal needs to be 1000 cals, feel me?? Breakfast is going to be rough if I'm eating eggs and oatmeal....cuz I'm going to have to down a cup of oatmeal (that's alot) and like 6+ eggs, maybe some bread, and 2 glasses of milk...I will be shitting in 2 hours easy...but for one of my lunches I might down a couple peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, put peanut butter on both sides of the bread and drink a huge glass of milk and that's almost a thousand calories and I got room to spare....got it??

[Soldier Zero]

I know I should eat something with casein protein in it before I go to bed, but how different would it be if I just have my whey protein shake instead?

Also, what're good sources of casein protein? All I know is cottage cheese.

[$|-|U(V)AYeL]

Magnus: What about abs, forearms and calves in the routine you gave me? I was doing ab work out with medicine balls before that..

Edit:

also, you know how we change rep schemes week to week.. do we use the same weight? :S I mean for the second week it's 5x5.. If I use a heavier weight, i'll surely hit faillure on the last sets.. I think.

[denjin]

The 3x15 rep scheme feels like lactic acid burn right?

Hm...all this time I've assumed that if you go from 3x8 to 3x15, you're changing the weight level. That IS what it is right?

Also, counting calories. I am not too eager to start counting everything I eat, but is there a site that has nutritional information for most stuff? I imagine eating clean encompasses all the foods WITHOUT a nutritional label on them. (Carrots and chicken don't come with nutrtional information, unlike canned peas or something.)

[MagnusMadness]

Magnus: What about abs, forearms and calves in the routine you gave me? I was doing ab work out with medicine balls before that..

Edit:

also, you know how we change rep schemes week to week.. do we use the same weight? :S I mean for the second week it's 5x5.. If I use a heavier weight, i'll surely hit faillure on the last sets.. I think.

Abs and forearms are accessories...your core and your forearms will get quite a bit of work from all the compound lifts and lifting heavy weights. If you want to do some more work with them...just do whatever you want when you have time...but finish the workout I outlined first and foremost....

And Yes the weight changes, that's mostly the whole point...you aren't necessarily taking the sets to failure...maybe leave a couple reps in the tank...meaning on the 5x5 week do 5 reps with your 7 rep max...feel me?? If you hit failure on a set no problem...you may even want to take a set to failure every so often, just not all the time...




The 3x15 rep scheme feels like lactic acid burn right?

Hm...all this time I've assumed that if you go from 3x8 to 3x15, you're changing the weight level. That IS what it is right?

Also, counting calories. I am not too eager to start counting everything I eat, but is there a site that has nutritional information for most stuff? I imagine eating clean encompasses all the foods WITHOUT a nutritional label on them. (Carrots and chicken don't come with nutrtional information, unlike canned peas or something.)

it was 2 sets of 15, not 3...you see how 3x10 and 2x15 is the same total number of reps?? We are changing weights and rep scheme without actually increasing volume...and yes it may and probably will burn a little bit and yes it's lactic acid. Nothing to worry about or be excited about.

About counting calories...you don't REALLY have to do it....unless you are really serious about gaining or losing weight and you normally have trouble doing either. Basically, just know that if your trying to cut to eat lean...foods that are low in calories...without necessarily knowing exactly how many and adding them up on a daily basis...you can have a good idea of if you are eating right in relation to whatever your goals may be.

Yes there is a website...but I don't know the address...maybe try googling it...I'm sure there's more than one.


Hope I was able to help you guys.

[b1gazn]

I wanna do my biceps and triceps today. But Im trying to find something that I like.

So far my routine that I like is close hands bench presses, ez curls, pull ups and dips. I need two more exercises that will work out the biceps and triceps. Does anybody know of any that is some what fun.

[HeaT]

I wanna do my biceps and triceps today. But Im trying to find something that I like.

So far my routine that I like is close hands bench presses, ez curls, pull ups and dips. I need two more exercises that will work out the biceps and triceps. Does anybody know of any that is some what fun.

pull ups are primarily for back...

you can do these for bicepts...

21s
concentration curls
preacher curls
alternating dumbell curls

i find all of these fun...

for tricepts...

rope pull downs
v-bar pull downs
double tricept kickbacks
waited bench dips
skull crushers

again i find those pretty fun...

im outi

Roberth

[denjin]

If I'm shooting for 5000 cals a day, then each meal needs to be 1000 cals, feel me?? Breakfast is going to be rough if I'm eating eggs and oatmeal....cuz I'm going to have to down a cup of oatmeal (that's alot) and like 6+ eggs, maybe some bread, and 2 glasses of milk...I will be shitting in 2 hours easy...but for one of my lunches I might down a couple peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, put peanut butter on both sides of the bread and drink a huge glass of milk and that's almost a thousand calories and I got room to spare....got it??

HOLY SHIT THAT'S A LOT OF FOOD!

I tend to eat a bit less but much more often nowadays. MAN that's a lot of food. SIX eggs AND bread?? My meals tend to be rice-heavy...but even then...

DAMN! I guess that's the reason I'm not getting bigger. "Skinny guys need to work on their diet."

SHU, I have a friend that looks like a shorter version of Romie. One day I asked him about forearms, then he goes "Well, you could do some of these and some of these."

Then I go, "Okay, so how often you do these things?"
"What those? I never do those, man. I don't work forearms period."

[maxx]

pull ups are primarily for back...

you can do these for bicepts...

21s
concentration curls
preacher curls
alternating dumbell curls

i find all of these fun...

for tricepts...

rope pull downs
v-bar pull downs
double tricept kickbacks
waited bench dips
skull crushers

again i find those pretty fun...

im outi

Roberth

i've never felt anything in pullups in my back area..only in the arms.

[MagnusMadness]

i've never felt anything in pullups in my back area..only in the arms.


Pull ups work the lats....if you use a supinated grip, then you carry more of the load on the biceps. Try a pronated grip....

Also...even when my backs PUMPED, I have to move my arms a certain way or twist to actually feel teh swollen lats.

[denjin]

MagnusMadness, what does your diet look like on a normal day?

Also, on a full body day, are you supposed to feel anything the next day?

[Hoonyo]

The 3x15 rep scheme feels like lactic acid burn right?

Hm...all this time I've assumed that if you go from 3x8 to 3x15, you're changing the weight level. That IS what it is right?

Also, counting calories. I am not too eager to start counting everything I eat, but is there a site that has nutritional information for most stuff? I imagine eating clean encompasses all the foods WITHOUT a nutritional label on them. (Carrots and chicken don't come with nutrtional information, unlike canned peas or something.)
http://www.nutritiondata.com/

[MagnusMadness]

MagnusMadness, what does your diet look like on a normal day?

Also, on a full body day, are you supposed to feel anything the next day?

Heh, I'm not the "best" example....when I'm bulking, I do exactly what I said, focusing purely on getting in a ton of calories every 3 hours....centering meals around high amounts of carbs and protein...

When i was cutting however...breakfast was always 6 egg whites and one whole egg with a half a cup of oatmeal..at the time of my cut I could get really good grilled chicken too (at the restaraunt I worked at)...so a lunch might consist of two 6 ounce chicken breasts and some brown rice, maybe a cup or so...I would eat sandwiches from time to time with sliced chicken breast or turkey on whole grain wheat...I'm really active too, and I added cardio to my routine regularly and drank nothing but water. No alcohol...period. Lost 15 pounds before I knew it.

When I do full body routines or upper/lower splits...I begin to get less and less sore. But remember, DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) is NOT, I repeat, NOT indicative of a good workout. Don't train for a pump, or a feel, or a burn....train for results...record gym data (weights/reps) and see how you progress...if you aren't seeing results in any aspect of your program, then something isn't working and you need to try something different.

If you want to get sore then do higher rep sets with a super slow eccentric phase...that will more than likely make you sore....but that doesn't mean you really did anything.

[Chaos]

I don't really believe in clean bulking either, certainly not if your using super supplements. Not advocating eating Krispy Creme but calorie counting within reason while bulking is counter productive in my opinion. Plus I feel that 5 pounds of fat (1-3 weeks of a solid diet to lose) is not worth suspension of enjoying life for. Eat when your in off season or bulking, cause if your REALLY dieting then it sucks.

Magnus give me a call when ya see this dude wanna kick around some ideas for regimen while cutting and maybe catch a workout.

[Soldier Zero]

I know I should eat something with casein protein in it before I go to bed, but how different would it be if I just have my whey protein shake instead?

Also, what're good sources of casein protein? All I know is cottage cheese.

No one?

[adonis_minus_20]

I have one of these digital scales that also measures body fat and water percentage. Does anyone know generally how accurate body fat % measurements are from these scales. It says with the instructions to slightly wet your feet before you get on it, so that it can have better conductivity, but I've never seen it really make a difference in the readings.

I'm 167 lbs. now, 6' tall, and usually get readings anywhere from 16% - 20% body fat.

I'm so pissed at how slow my body fat loss is now. I figure I'll need to be in the high 150's to see my abs. I never thought I would be that thin. I must post some pics soon, not that I'm any big deal or anything, just to get some feedback (I wish more people did this, it would be nice to see the results that people have gotten, what advice they give, what program they're on, etc.).

Jim

[denjin]

http://www.nutritiondata.com/

Cool, thanks, Hoon.


When i was cutting however...

But remember, DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) is NOT, I repeat, NOT indicative of a good workout.

Don't train for a pump, or a feel, or a burn....train for results...record gym data (weights/reps) and see how you progress...if you aren't seeing results in any aspect of your program, then something isn't working and you need to try something different.


When you're cutting as in trying to LOSE weight you ate like that? Hm.

The idea that DOMS doesn't mean anything still messes my head up. Does everyone else feel this way? I ask because if there isn't a clear consensus on something, I gotta take everything I read with a grain of salt. (The only thing everyone agreed on was not to stretch pre-workout.

Please help: how exactly DO I keep a log? The only log I keep now is one that records sets/reps with amount of weight.


Not advocating eating Krispy Creme but ...

I actually thought about this at one point. If I'm trying to GAIN weight, then the fatty foods I'm eating should be pretty helpful.

Edit:

No one?

Dude, I've never even heard of that type of protein, hope someone else can help you.

[Soldier Zero]

Please help: how exactly DO I keep a log? The only log I keep now is one that records sets/reps with amount of weight.



I actually thought about this at one point. If I'm trying to GAIN weight, then the fatty foods I'm eating should be pretty helpful.

Edit:


Dude, I've never even heard of that type of protein, hope someone else can help you.

For recording a log, I use Microsoft Excel with what I eat in one spreadsheet then the other of the exercises I do for each day with the weight, reps, and sets.

With fatty foods, make sure your cholesterol doesn't go overboard.

Whey protein is digested and absorbed by your body quick (good for pre and post lifting) while casein is a slow digested protein that lasts longer through the night while you sleep.

[denjin]

"Buy some flax, take 2 fish oil caps with each meal."

Was on bodybuilding forums and I saw that. What's that, drink a capful?

[MagnusMadness]

The idea that DOMS doesn't mean anything still messes my head up. Does everyone else feel this way? I ask because if there isn't a clear consensus on something, I gotta take everything I read with a grain of salt. (The only thing everyone agreed on was not to stretch pre-workout.

DOMS does mean something. It means you either have a lot of micro trauma or a build up of lactic acid....


Please help: how exactly DO I keep a log? The only log I keep now is one that records sets/reps with amount of weight.

That's what I meant....just record what you did on a given day....the best idea though is to actually have a program laid out ahead of time, so on that given day you are just filling in the blanks.


I actually thought about this at one point. If I'm trying to GAIN weight, then the fatty foods I'm eating should be pretty helpful.

Donuts are great for a calories...but it's not a good source of ANYTHING your body needs to build muscle. Except a bunch of refined, simple carbs. Your goal is to put on mass, not put on fat. Yes you will put on both at times, but you should want to keep the gain in fat to a minimum.


"Buy some flax, take 2 fish oil caps with each meal."

Was on bodybuilding forums and I saw that. What's that, drink a capful?

capsules...fish oil capsules


I know I should eat something with casein protein in it before I go to bed, but how different would it be if I just have my whey protein shake instead?

Also, what're good sources of casein protein? All I know is cottage cheese.

You ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION....This thread is going to get FUCKING cluttered if people keep asking simple questions over and over again. I'm not going to list for the hundredth time what foods have protein cuz guess what....it's MEAT, you ALL know that MEAT, and all MEATS have a TON of protein in them.

[denjin]

I hate to get anal on this, so DOMS aren't anything positive right?

aka: "Feeling DOMS is negligible"?

Edit:
Let's try it another way. The old way I used to (mistakenly?) measure growth was the "DOMS", so is there another way to tell I'm growing? I don't think that I'll be able to tell the minute changes in a day-to-day thing with a journal. (It would work for a period of a few months but) I want to be able to tell the next day/that night/one minute after the workout.

I don't know if my questions are irking you, but if they are I want to point out my extreme ignorance in all this and my appreciation for your advice and help.

This also goes to Romie and all the other guys that ... used to post.

[Soldier Zero]

You ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION....This thread is going to get FUCKING cluttered if people keep asking simple questions over and over again. I'm not going to list for the hundredth time what foods have protein cuz guess what....it's MEAT, you ALL know that MEAT, and all MEATS have a TON of protein in them.


Sorry man, I didn't know that was considered casein too. So I'm assuming most food is casein protein.

[skitz]

Heh, I'm not the "best" example....when I'm bulking, I do exactly what I said, focusing purely on getting in a ton of calories every 3 hours....centering meals around high amounts of carbs and protein...

When i was cutting however...breakfast was always 6 egg whites and one whole egg with a half a cup of oatmeal..at the time of my cut I could get really good grilled chicken too (at the restaraunt I worked at)...so a lunch might consist of two 6 ounce chicken breasts and some brown rice, maybe a cup or so...I would eat sandwiches from time to time with sliced chicken breast or turkey on whole grain wheat...I'm really active too, and I added cardio to my routine regularly and drank nothing but water. No alcohol...period. Lost 15 pounds before I knew it.


weird diet

[leon_shore]

Magnus: What about abs, forearms and calves in the routine you gave me?

Forearms will grow a little bit with indirect work, but with most things, you need to isolate certain muscle groups to maximize your gains. How long have you been working out? What is your routine? Are you training for strength or going for mass?

For mass, there are a few good exercises you can do. First is the deadlift. Deadlifiting is not just good for your lats, traps, spinal rerectors, quads and hamstrings, but VERY beneficial to forearm strength and development (shoot it even works my biceps). If you haven't implemented deadlifts into your routine, I recommend you do so. Deadlifting is one of the best lifts you can do (no wonder they are a part of the big three lifts).

Besides the dangers of performing deadlifts, many beginners make four critical mistakes when performing this lift. Number one, they use straps, and two they use a belt. Now I have nothing against straps and belts. Both tools have their place in bodybuilding, powerlifting, and olympic lifting. But if you really want to develop decent forearms, ditch the girly straps. In the end, it will be more beneficial. Also, unless you are doing a 1-3 rep max, you don't really need a belt. A belt is used for added protection, but don't abuse it.

Mistake number three: it's called 'dead' lift for a reason. You are lifting dead weight. So if you're bouncing off the bottom portion, you're not really deadlifting are you? Many people have trouble on the first part of the deadlift, and one of the reasons can be attributed to bouncing the weight. People wonder why the first rep is the most difficult and can't figure it out. It's because they are actually deadlifting the first rep, and not the subsequent others. Lift the weight up. Lock it. Lower, and let the weight become dead. Repeat.

Number 4 isn't that big of a deal, but it still limits you. Variety. People keep doing the same thing over and over again. Spice things up. Don't just do full range-of-motion deadlifts week in and week out. Throw in some rack pulls once in a while. Rack pulls are great in that the top half of your deadlift will improve. Generally people use ALOT of weight when doing rackpulls (compared to deads), so their grip is being worked big time. In the beginning, you're going to be VERY limited as to the weight you can rackpull because of underdeveloped grip strength, but it will catch up eventually. Finally, there is also the bottom half of the deadlift. Powerlifters who are generally weak in this area, will implement doing bottom-half deads. I myself am in this category. You may also want to look into Sumo-style deadlifts.

I won't go too deeply into Sumo Deadlifts, but they are hard on your hamstrings. This style of deadlift is generally used by powerlifters who are weak at the bottom. Decreasing your range of motion should in theory allow you to lift more weight, but that is not the case. Sumo Deadlifts like many other lift require some crunch time to get right. At first, you may lift even less compared to conventional. At first glance, sumo deads look funny. But do not underestimate this lift. It is very functional, and as difficult as the conventional deadlift. Hamstrings are a big mover in this movement, so if you have weak hamstrings, your Sumo numbers are going to be low.

Next post, I'll go into direct forearm exercises. Although deadlifts are great, these next exercises will add MASS, big time. Want forearms nearly the size of your upper arms? I'll let you in on the secret. And I'm not talking about useless wrist curls either. Stay tuned.

[leon_shore]

I wanna do my biceps and triceps today. But Im trying to find something that I like.

So far my routine that I like is close hands bench presses, ez curls, pull ups and dips. I need two more exercises that will work out the biceps and triceps. Does anybody know of any that is some what fun.

You have a pretty good routine there for arms. In CGBP (close grip bench press), triceps are the primary movers. Not only does it work your tris, but your pecs and shoulders are being targeted as well. It's definately one of the best lifts you can perform. Dips is another good one. However, it all depends on how you perform the dip. The angle and RoM can directly affect which muscles you are using.

Pullups are good for your biceps, but they aren't too good for isolation. Actually, pullups are a bit of an oddball. It's not that great of an exercise when you're looking for isolation. Biceps, triceps, lats, and chest are used during this movement.

Military Press is a great movement for both shoulders and triceps. However, it all depends on your grip and RoM.

The best tricep movement for me personally has been the French curl (a.k.a. Skull Crusher). I added 2 inches on my triceps just from this exercise. I love these mutha#@$$ers. Using a huge RoM with an ez-bar did the trick for me. More than anything however, periodization is probably the biggest key to adding mass. There is no magical exercise that will give you gains. I basically did Skull Crushers exclusively for a few months. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Biceps are as basic as they come. Most curls are all the same. It's how you execute them that makes the difference. Preacher curls are great for isolation, but people tend to cheat when doing these. Also, it's murder on the joint, so be careful. Performing curls on an incline bench will do wonders for your biceps. Your biceps will be constantly stressed. The incline version is very difficult compared to the basic curl, so you will most likely have to lower the weight. I highly recommend this movement.

A recurring trend here? Yes, execution is key. There are so many different ways to do a lift. Do what's right for your goals.

[Mr. Bastos]

. Deadlifting is one of the best lifts you can do (no wonder they are a part of the big three lifts).

not sure if it is already in this thread, since its so long, but your comment made me wonder, what are the "big 3" lifts?

[leon_shore]

Sorry man, I didn't know that was considered casein too. So I'm assuming most food is casein protein.

Don't feel sorry man. You can't know everything. Casein is great right before bedtime, but not when it's whole foods. You may want to look into getting Casein protein concentrate, and mix it with a liquid. Liquids are easy to absorb and won't give you the runs in the morning, while the casein will do its trick and be slowly digested.

Personally, I have no problem with non-casein protein before bed. I usually mix my protein powder with milk. Since milk takes awhile to digest (it is casein afterall), it's not a bad idea unless you're lactose intolerant. Although you want to feed your body during the night, casein isn't the end all be all some people make it out to be. If anything, one should concentrate on what they eat during the day. That's when your metabolism is at its highest, and when you are active. When you're asleep, metabolism slows to a an almost screeching halt, so you don't need to worry too much.

You could look into getting some el glutamine. It's cheap and effective. El glutamine is an amino acid that helps preserve muscle mass. Just take some protein and glutamine at night and you should be good to go. Make sure you immediately get some protein in you as soon as you wake up via protein powder + liquid. It's going to cost quite a bit of money in the long run, but bodybuilding, or whatever discipline you're practicing is a lifestyle, not just something you do a few hours a day. Bodybuilding, powerlifting, olympic lifting is a 24-hour a day discipline. Treat it like one (not aimed at anyone).

[Soldier Zero]

Don't feel sorry man. You can't know everything. Casein is great right before bedtime, but not when it's whole foods. You may want to look into getting Casein protein concentrate, and mix it with a liquid. Liquids are easy to absorb and won't give you the runs in the morning, while the casein will do its trick and be slowly digested.

Personally, I have no problem with non-casein protein before bed. I usually mix my protein powder with milk. Since milk takes awhile to digest (it is casein afterall), it's not a bad idea unless you're lactose intolerant. Although you want to feed your body during the night, casein isn't the end all be all some people make it out to be. If anything, one should concentrate on what they eat during the day. That's when your metabolism is at its highest, and when you are active. When you're asleep, metabolism slows to a an almost screeching halt, so you don't need to worry too much.

You could look into getting some el glutamine. It's cheap and effective. El glutamine is an amino acid that helps preserve muscle mass. Just take some protein and glutamine at night and you should be good to go. Make sure you immediately get some protein in you as soon as you wake up via protein powder + liquid. It's going to cost quite a bit of money in the long run, but bodybuilding, or whatever discipline you're practicing is a lifestyle, not just something you do a few hours a day. Bodybuilding, powerlifting, olympic lifting is a 24-hour a day discipline. Treat it like one (not aimed at anyone).


Thanks man. :tup:

I want to take 3 scoops of my protein powder on days I lift. One hour before I lift, one after I lift, and then another. Would the 3rd scoop be better to take in the morning or before I go to bed? In the morning breakfast is a couple of egg whites and a slice of whole grain bread. Before I sleep would probably be just a granola bar. Morning and bedtime would get 10 oz. of milk with what I'd be eating.

[leon_shore]

not sure if it is already in this thread, since its so long, but your comment made me wonder, what are the "big 3" lifts?

Bench. Squat. Deadlift. Even if those three are the only exercises you do, you'll still get d*mn big and d@mn strong. Almost every muscle group is covered. The neck, and calves are probably the only accessories that are left out. Shoot, even your abs are used. Don't take it the wrong way however. Keep doing everything you're doing. I'm just saying those 3 exercises alone will get the job done.

[Mr. Bastos]

Bench. Squat. Deadlift. Even if those three are the only exercises you do, you'll still get d*mn big and d@mn strong. Almost every muscle group is covered. The neck, and calves are probably the only accessories that are left out. Shoot, even your abs are used. Don't take it the wrong way however. Keep doing everything you're doing. I'm just saying those 3 exercises alone will get the job done.

ohh, thanks man.

[HeaT]

Bench. Squat. Deadlift. Even if those three are the only exercises you do, you'll still get d*mn big and d@mn strong. Almost every muscle group is covered. The neck, and calves are probably the only accessories that are left out. Shoot, even your abs are used. Don't take it the wrong way however. Keep doing everything you're doing. I'm just saying those 3 exercises alone will get the job done.


if you ask me i would say back is also left out...and is considerable uncovered...

im outi

Roberth

[leon_shore]

Thanks man. :tup:

I want to take 3 scoops of my protein powder on days I lift. One hour before I lift, one after I lift, and then another. Would the 3rd scoop be better to take in the morning or before I go to bed? In the morning breakfast is a couple of egg whites and a slice of whole grain bread. Before I sleep would probably be just a granola bar. Morning and bedtime would get 10 oz. of milk with what I'd be eating.

Although supplementation is just that, supplementation, my 'On' days I'll take up to 4 servings of liquid protein. As soon as I wake up, preworkout, post-workout, and before bedtime. I probably go through two gallons of milk every week. What can I say, I love milk (fatfree milk). At first it tasted horrible compared to 2%, but I can't go back now. It tastes too 'thick'.

If you're going to do 3 servings, it doesn't really matter. I'd increase it to 4, but it's not going to make or break your physique. If anything, I would say the before-bed shake is best. This is because when you sleep your body is going to need some fuel to repair and build the body. I know some guys who don't take any protein powder at all and still make gains. It's just a way of maximizing your potential. Depending on your caloric needs, you may gain a bit more fat from the extra calories, so experimentation is recommended.

Also, post workout protein is very important. It's not proven, but I believe there are studies that indicate a 30-45 minute window of opportunity. During a workout, your body is going to be breaking down muscle as a means of fuel. That's why a preworkout shake is important. A postworkout meal is similar in that you need to replenish your body as quickly as possible. Since it takes time to digest the composition of protein, 30 minutes is a good time frame to get your powder in. However, this is very difficult to implement. You have to either purchase a shake, or prepare one beforehand. It's a huge hassle, and I'm not completely convinced that it's necessary. All this time, I've had my post drink 1 hour after working out. It didn't stop me from getting bigger.

[MagnusMadness]

snip.


Every time you squeeze a weight in your hand, your forearms feel it. Even more with raw pulling movements. Isolating small muscles like this that recieve such a tremendous amount of ancillary work is next to pointless. There are an exuberant amount of bodybuilders that don't isolate traps and forearms and for good reason...they don't have to.

I use straps and a belt when deadlifting...cuz when I'm deadlifting I'm not concerned with grip strength, I'm concerned with the 400+ lbs lying on the ground in front of me. Also....don't confuse strength with size...they are related yes...but sometimes loosely.

Deadlifts are great for the traps, glutes, hams, and erector spinae. I deadlift every week, but if grip strength was a concern then I would do static holds, heavy farmers walks, reverse curls and towel pull-ups. These will net you the greatest gains in grip strength via neural adaptation....with minimal mesomorphic adaptations achieved through muscular hypertrophy (growth.)

You talk about disecting the deadlift for variety.....but the only time you should do this, as with any lift, is to improve a particular part of the lift you are weak in...And if your goal is in fact size then this shouldn't concern you, and you should always use full ROMs to cause hypertrophy in as much muscle as possible in the least amount of time. For one training for size, variety should come from a well periodized program manipulating intensity, volume, and/or frequency.

If I was weak in the bottom of a deadlift, I would deadlift off a platform....just my opinion...


About ur next post and exercises that add mass...As a personal trainer and a physiology enthusiast...that statement irks me...Different exercises don't do different things to muscles...there aren't different levels or types of hypertrophy...I lost over 15lbs on my last cut doing the same exercises as when I weighed 215 and I LOST mass....how can this be?? I was doing "mass building" exercises!?!?!

Basically your whole post was about deadlifts in relation to working out forearms as accessories...and the information was largely related to gaining strength....whether by intent or not...but whatever....Not trying to be an ass or sound rude, but Please let me address questions regarding programs that I write...


Sorry man, I didn't know that was considered casein too. So I'm assuming most food is casein protein.

No I'm sorry for getting short...I honestly don't know what "kinds" of proteins are found in naturally occuring foods...I know some foods have better and/or more complex branching of amino acids than others....for instance, aminos in red meat take longer to break down...making them more optimal late at night, or as the last meal...to fight catabolization while you sleep...but when I said you already knew the answer to the question you posed, it was in regards to this statement...


Whey protein is digested and absorbed by your body quick (good for pre and post lifting) while casein is a slow digested protein that lasts longer through the night while you sleep.

Since you know this, then through a little bit of thinking you could deduce why casein would be better at night than whey...


I hate to get anal on this, so DOMS aren't anything positive right?

aka: "Feeling DOMS is negligible"?

Edit:
Let's try it another way. The old way I used to (mistakenly?) measure growth was the "DOMS", so is there another way to tell I'm growing? I don't think that I'll be able to tell the minute changes in a day-to-day thing with a journal. (It would work for a period of a few months but) I want to be able to tell the next day/that night/one minute after the workout.

I don't know if my questions are irking you, but if they are I want to point out my extreme ignorance in all this and my appreciation for your advice and help.

This also goes to Romie and all the other guys that ... used to post.

Yes DOMS is negligible...What about those muscles that no matter how HARD or LONG you work them....never get sore?? For me it's my shoulders and arms....does this mean they aren't growing?? I know this isn't true, because 1: I've gained weight and size 2: I take measurements, and let's just say I'm not getting any smaller (cept when I cut SIGH) and 3: My lifts are up (aaaahhhh, now you see the importance of recording gym data!!)

Muscles that get worked frequently will just stop getting so damned sore. Now do I still get sore?? Absolutely...my legs sometimes get REALLY sore...especially if I missed them for a week or something...man it's rough...I even LIKE getting sore...sometimes it's cool cuz you are sore in the muscle you worked..so when you are sore in your back you know you at least did good in targeting that muscle you know?? I'm just saying it's not important and DEFINITELY not something to worry about.

[leon_shore]

Every time you squeeze a weight in your hand, your forearms feel it. Even more with raw pulling movements. Isolating small muscles like this that recieve such a tremendous amount of ancillary work is next to pointless. There are an exuberant amount of bodybuilders that don't isolate traps and forearms and for good reason...they don't have to.

That's great. I'm glad that your forearms are growing. However, my forearms don't grow without direct work. Some people are wired differently. What works for you won't necessarily work for me.


I use straps and a belt when deadlifting...cuz when I'm deadlifting I'm not concerned with grip strength, I'm concerned with the 400+ lbs lying on the ground in front of me. Also....don't confuse strength with size...they are related yes...but sometimes loosely.

I never said size equated to strength. As for using straps, I am highly against it. If you didn't have to rely on straps, you'd be deadlifting 400+ lbs without them. The use of straps is a highly debated topic that doesn't need further attention. I've been on both sides of the spectrem; strength training and mass training. I've done both bodybuilding and powerlifting, and if you want to continue using straps, go right ahead. You have the right to practice what you believe.


Deadlifts are great for the traps, glutes, hams, and erector spinae. I deadlift every week, but if grip strength was a concern then I would do static holds, heavy farmers walks, reverse curls and towel pull-ups. These will net you the greatest gains in grip strength via neural adaptation....with minimal mesomorphic adaptations achieved through muscular hypertrophy (growth.)

I apologize. I'm not quite the spelling bee that you are. Thank you for correcting my grammer on the internet. Doing static holds and actually holding only a moving bar are two totally seperate things. Reverse curls do nothing for your grip strength. I don't even know what 'towel pull-ups' are, so excuse my ignorance. Yes, your CNS is big part of strength gains, but please don't lecture me on grip strength when you use straps and aren't versed in grip-ology. You don't have to use 'big' words like 'mesomorhpic' that have nothing to do with anything. Mesomorphic is a word used to describe a body type. I'm not trying to offend you, but just because you're a personal trainer doesn't mean you know everything.


You talk about disecting the deadlift for variety.....but the only time you should do this, as with any lift, is to improve a particular part of the lift you are weak in...And if your goal is in fact size then this shouldn't concern you, and you should always use full ROMs to cause hypertrophy in as much muscle as possible in the least amount of time. For one training for size, variety should come from a well periodized program manipulating intensity, volume, and/or frequency.

It does concern me. I don't want people to do the same thing week in and week out, when there's more on the table to take advantage of. There is no should or shouldn't in workout out unless it is dangerous. You don't always have to us a full RoM. Ever heard of partials? Cheat curls? Board presses? Rack lock outs? And a million other variations of exercises? I'm not trying to start anything, but I get the impression of arrogance and close-mindedness. Semi-OT, but should I always c.mk xx SAx with Chun Li in 3s? Sure, but not all the time. There is a time and place for almost everything.



About ur next post and exercises that add mass...As a personal trainer and a physiology enthusiast...that statement irks me...Different exercises don't do different things to muscles...there aren't different levels or types of hypertrophy...I lost over 15lbs on my last cut doing the same exercises as when I weighed 215 and I LOST mass....how can this be?? I was doing "mass building" exercises!?!?!

Take bench press for example. Lay on the bench and press right? There are so many different ways to do, it's not even funny. I can start a whole thread about the nuiances of the bench press. Sure ultimately, the weight goes up, but it isn't just lay down and press. There's the various grips you can use which targets the different areas of the pecs or triceps. You can use elbows out, ebows tucked in. Arch, no arch. Underhand, or overhand grip, heck even thumbless grip, for sh*ts and giggles. Then there's the range of motion, how different types of bars can be used for different results and uses. Then there's the feet placement, how to use leg drive. You can bench press to gain size and strength, just strength, or just size. Shall I go on? Because I can. Anyways, there isn't just one method of doing an exercise.


Basically your whole post was about deadlifts in relation to working out forearms as accessories...and the information was largely related to gaining strength....whether by intent or not...but whatever....Not trying to be an ass or sound rude, but Please let me address questions regarding programs that I write...

Like I said, personal trainers don't know jack squat. I'm not saying you don't know your stuff, but PT's come off that way. Heck, I can be one if I want. Heck, my clueless friend can be one. He just needs to come up with 500+ bucks and take a weekend course. That's pretty much it. Anyways, I'm not trying to say you don't know jack or you suck or anything. I'm just saying have an open mind.

You should try powerlifting sometime. It'll blow your mind, what they have to offer in terms of technical knowledge of the three big lifts, and then some. I used to have a 'bodybuilder mentality' when I was a bodybuilder, and powerlifting opened up a whole new world for me. Granted I never went to a meet or competed, but it was like the first Matrix movie. After taking a pill (not to be taken literally), it was like everything I believed was a lie.

[MagnusMadness]

I never said size equated to strength. As for using straps, I am highly against it. If you didn't have to rely on straps, you'd be deadlifting 400+ lbs without them. The use of straps is a highly debated topic that doesn't need further attention. I've been on both sides of the spectrem; strength training and mass training. I've done both bodybuilding and powerlifting, and if you want to continue using straps, go right ahead. You have the right to practice what you believe.

The use of straps isn't highly debated...powerlifters shouldn't use them...people training for functional strength or raw strength shouldn't use them....but recreational bodybuilders or any person who's trying to use more weight and wants more emphasis placed on the posterior chain can and perhaps should use them. I've seen people who've never used straps put em on and deadlift 150 more pounds...Now I should say this though...I ONLY use straps for this exercise, my grip strength is more than adequate for everything else, and straps just slow me down the rest of the day.


I apologize. I'm not quite the spelling bee that you are. Thank you for correcting my grammer on the internet. Doing static holds and actually holding only a moving bar are two totally seperate things. Reverse curls do nothing for your grip strength. I don't even know what 'towel pull-ups' are, so excuse my ignorance. Yes, your CNS is big part of strength gains, but please don't lecture me on grip strength when you use straps and aren't versed in grip-ology. You don't have to use 'big' words like 'mesomorhpic' that have nothing to do with anything. Mesomorphic is a word used to describe a body type. I'm not trying to offend you, but just because you're a personal trainer doesn't mean you know everything.

It wasn't a spelling error dude, you made up a fucking word...just pointing that out. spinal rerectors and erector spinae are hardly the same word.

Don't lecture you because I use straps?? And I'm close minded, that's a laugh you ass clown...MESOMORPHIC is used to describe adaptations RELATED to that bodytype...it makes sense if you think about............................

No, I don't know everything....but I also don't write pages about deadlifts and grip strength when someone directly asked someone else about the program they wrote for them. You didn't even begin to answer the fucking question....



It does concern me. I don't want people to do the same thing week in and week out, when there's more on the table to take advantage of. There is no should or shouldn't in workout out unless it is dangerous. You don't always have to us a full RoM. Ever heard of partials? Cheat curls? Board presses? Rack lock outs? And a million other variations of exercises?

First off, his program was periodized (undulating) already....which is variety enough. After 3 cycles then yes, revamp the program...change exercises, articulations...change the split even, with a different form of periodization...

When bodybuilding Full ROMS are crucial IMHO...Why do people do partials...to strengthen that part of the lift...why lock outs?? To train the lock out....If you are a recreational bodybuilder or even a professional bodybuilder, there is no point in disecting movements...cuz you could give two shits how much you bench or deadlift..you care about gains in size...those aren't variations of exercises....they are PIECES of exercises. And they are GREAT for powerlifters or people following a powerlifting program. But not for everyone...not for people concerned with gains in size with little regard to how strong they are in 3 lifts....


Take bench press for example. Lay on the bench and press right? There are so many different ways to do, it's not even funny. I can start a whole thread about the nuiances of the bench press. Sure ultimately, the weight goes up, but it isn't just lay down and press. There's the various grips you can use which targets the different areas of the pecs or triceps. You can use elbows out, ebows tucked in. Arch, no arch. Underhand, or overhand grip, heck even thumbless grip, for sh*ts and giggles. Then there's the range of motion, how different types of bars can be used for different results and uses. Then there's the feet placement, how to use leg drive. You can bench press to gain size and strength, just strength, or just size. Shall I go on? Because I can. Anyways, there isn't just one method of doing an exercise.

I lost you on this one....My statement was addressing how some people do certain exercises for "mass" and different exercises for "definition"...when in fact diet is more important...in a caloric deficit those same mass exercises will fail to put any size on you...but when eating the house, growth comes just about regardless of what you do. Not to say that a solid training program isn't important....but you get my drift...bench press causes hypertophy in the pecs...(not to mention other muscle groups involved in the lift) and flyes cause hypertrophy in the pecs...there's not a different kind of growth between exercises...The difference between putting on mass and losing it is the difference between eating for size or dieting down...

About targeting the different areas of the pecs...which areas are you speaking of?? The sternal and clavical head?? Or the minor and major??


Like I said, personal trainers don't know jack squat. I'm not saying you don't know your stuff, but PT's come off that way. Heck, I can be one if I want. Heck, my clueless friend can be one. He just needs to come up with 500+ bucks and take a weekend course. That's pretty much it. Anyways, I'm not trying to say you don't know jack or you suck or anything. I'm just saying have an open mind.

I've been giving solid advice on here since long before I became a trainer...taking their test was a formality. And a good cert is more than a weekend course bud...my cert was in house and it was 50 hours. ISSA for one is very detailed....get that cert and tell me you didn't learn SHITLOADS about physiology and kinesiology. The problem with some personal trainers today is that they AREN'T certified...or they get some shitty piece of paper (those shitty pieces of paper don't get you jobs at good facilities but you can do freelance stuff with NO cert, as long as the gym doesn't find out...and that shit happens often)


You should try powerlifting sometime. It'll blow your mind, what they have to offer in terms of technical knowledge of the three big lifts, and then some. I used to have a 'bodybuilder mentality' when I was a bodybuilder, and powerlifting opened up a whole new world for me. Granted I never went to a meet or competed, but it was like the first Matrix movie. After taking a pill (not to be taken literally), it was like everything I believed was a lie.

I've done westside before....briefly. Having a bodybuilder mentality isn't bad if you are bodybuilding....I had to take a big step back a while ago and decide what was important to me....size or strength....because up until I really started learning and reading I thought the two were hand in hand...then I came to realize that the training between the two is actually completely different.

[leon_shore]

It wasn't a spelling error dude, you made up a fucking word...just pointing that out. spinal rerectors and erector spinae are hardly the same word.

http://www.fitstep.com/Advanced/Anatomy/Back.htm

Go to the middle of the page.

http://www.ironmagazine.com/archive/Back_Training.htm

4th paragraph.

Google it. You will find many references to the word.

Dude, chill out. I didn't make up the word. It's pretty commonly referred to.


Don't lecture you because I use straps?? And I'm close minded, that's a laugh you ass clown...MESOMORPHIC is used to describe adaptations RELATED to that bodytype...it makes sense if you think about............................

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mesomorphic

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/mesomorphic

Mesomorphic IS a body type. I just wanted to give advice to some guy about working out his forearms. And obviously your pride has been hurt because I provided him with some information that you didn't even think about. Ever heard of 'Check the ego at the door'?


yes, I don't know everything....but I also don't write pages about deadlifts and grip strength when someone directly asked someone else about the program they wrote for them. You didn't even begin to answer the fucking question....

I never wrote 'pages' about deadlifts. I posted one simple post on the deadlift. If that is what you call 'pages', you have some serious issues about time and space perception. Like I said, I gave him my opinion on the subject. You're not the only one who knows a little something. I never implied that he has to take whatever I said and apply it for himself. He can do whatever the hell he wants.


First off, his program was periodized (undulating) already....which is variety enough. After 3 cycles then yes, revamp the program...change exercises, articulations...change the split even, with a different form of periodization...

Well excuse me for not perusing through the whole 76 pages of the thread. I mean c'mon, what was I thinking. I should be shot for not reading everything that's ever been posted. Evar (and YES, I spelled ever 'evar' intentional). I'm sticking to you, if you haven't noticed.


When bodybuilding Full ROMS are crucial IMHO...Why do people do partials...to strengthen that part of the lift...why lock outs?? To train the lock out....If you are a recreational bodybuilder or even a professional bodybuilder, there is no point in disecting movements...cuz you could give two shits how much you bench or deadlift..you care about gains in size...those aren't variations of exercises....they are PIECES of exercises. And they are GREAT for powerlifters or people following a powerlifting program. But not for everyone...not for people concerned with gains in size with little regard to how strong they are in 3 lifts....

I don't care how much you lift either. I was just pointing out you need to chill and have an open mind. Just because you're a bodybuilder doesn't mean you can't benefit from PLing or vice versa. If I'm not mistaken, I think this was called the 'Weightlifting & Nutrition Thread', not the 'Bodybuilding only, and ONLY Bodybuilding thread'.


I lost you on this one....My statement was addressing how some people do certain exercises for "mass" and different exercises for "definition"...when in fact diet is more important...in a caloric deficit those same mass exercises will fail to put any size on you...but when eating the house, growth comes just about regardless of what you do. Not to say that a solid training program isn't important....but you get my drift...bench press causes hypertophy in the pecs...(not to mention other muscle groups involved in the lift) and flyes cause hypertrophy in the pecs...there's not a different kind of growth between exercises...The difference between putting on mass and losing it is the difference between eating for size or dieting down...

I never said there was a different kind of growth for certain muscles either. I said their are different ways to do the same exercise. The most elementary example I can think of is using a moderate and wide grip on bench press. Sure they stress the pecs, but each in a different way. Now throw in going down to the middle of the chest, instead of the sternum/upper gut, and you also have different way of stimulating the muscle groups. This is thanks to just minor tweaks. It's the same bench press, there are just different ways to approach it.


I've been giving solid advice on here since long before I became a trainer...taking their test was a formality. And a good cert is more than a weekend course bud...my cert was in house and it was 50 hours. ISSA for one is very detailed....get that cert and tell me you didn't learn SHITLOADS about physiology and kinesiology. The problem with some personal trainers today is that they AREN'T certified...or they get some shitty piece of paper (those shitty pieces of paper don't get you jobs at good facilities but you can do freelance stuff with NO cert, as long as the gym doesn't find out...and that shit happens often)

First of all, I'm not your bud. Secondly, in your opinion you gave solid advice. I don't care about your e-credentials on an obscure forum (great forum, btw). And bodybuilding is straight forward. It doesn't take a NASA engineer to give advice.


I've done westside before....briefly. Having a bodybuilder mentality isn't bad if you are bodybuilding....I had to take a big step back a while ago and decide what was important to me....size or strength....because up until I really started learning and reading I thought the two were hand in hand...then I came to realize that the training between the two is actually completely different.

Good for you. But Westside is just a taste of what PLing is. Anyways, I'm done arguing. You have your opinions and I have mine. Instead of flaming or cussing people out, help people out who are in seek of advice. C'mon you're a personal training, train people.

[MagnusMadness]

look, I'm not going to dissect your posts again, cuz this is a useless argument anyway...for that I apologize...next time I disagree with what's being said, I'll remain silent...

The original question was "magnus, when do I workout forearms, calves, and abs on the routine you wrote for me"

He wasn't asking how to work forearms...for all you know this guy is more well versed in gripology than both of us put together. He was asking when to work them....also, had you looked back maybe 1 or 2 pages you would've seen the routine I wrote, where he is already doing deadlifts...

And about mesomorphic adaptations....whatever, if you want me to describe the adaptations as metabolic and cellular then that's what I'll do.

I'm done.

[Soldier Zero]

Er, going back to my posts, thanks for the feedback Magnus and leon. :tup:


Must buy chicken tits today. >_>

[denjin]

As far as keeping a log goes, should I be measuring myself?

I am more concerned with 'being big' than I am with 'getting stronger.'

[MagnusMadness]

As far as keeping a log goes, should I be measuring myself?

I am more concerned with 'being big' than I am with 'getting stronger.'

Sure, why not....It's not absolutely necessary, but can be useful...you can, for instance, see how well proportioned you are...as well as how symmetrical you are...If you are way off on either of those, then look at ways of correcting that...Also, if you are trying to gain size...then a log of weights and reps won't REALLY tell you if you are growing...only a scale and measuring tape will tell that tale..

[TheIlluminati]

Sure, why not....It's not absolutely necessary, but can be useful...you can, for instance, see how well proportioned you are...as well as how symmetrical you are...If you are way off on either of those, then look at ways of correcting that
I've got unbalanced pectorals, and to a lesser extent, triceps-- the left side is bigger in both cases. How can I fix this?

Thanks again Magnus.

[JuiceM0nkey]

I've got unbalanced pectorals, and to a lesser extent, triceps-- the left side is bigger in both cases. How can I fix this?

Thanks again Magnus.

Try working out more with DB's so you know your pushing both sides equally. If you use bench machines all the time, your probally pushing with the left side more and don't even know it!

[denjin]

I've been doing full body instead of particular body parts, and although I can't say I've noticed any growth (not like I ever do), I can say that it feels better. DOMS, the thing I kept aiming for was actually pretty damn unpleasant. A friend of mine considers it the equivalent of being masochistic. I can't disagree.

Also, I have no clue how to measure myself. Use a measuring tape? I guess I'll just stick with recording my reps and sets.

[MagnusMadness]

Also, I have no clue how to measure myself. Use a measuring tape? I guess I'll just stick with recording my reps and sets.

Yep....basically measuring at the biggest part of some bodyparts....middle of the quad, middle upper arm etc...don't forget to measure your neck, calves, chest and shoulders...


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIlluminati
I've got unbalanced pectorals, and to a lesser extent, triceps-- the left side is bigger in both cases. How can I fix this?

Thanks again Magnus.


Try working out more with DB's so you know your pushing both sides equally. If you use bench machines all the time, your probally pushing with the left side more and don't even know it!

Agreed!!....there's also little things you can do like....on exercises which you use one arm at a time...alternate which arm you start with from week to week....also if you always carry plates around with one arm...try using the other arm! But as juice said...the dumbells I think will make the biggest difference....

[Red Triangle]

Sometimes you just need to eat more. Many plans work, but not many people even try properly. I'm personally the biggest I've ever been right now (went from my average of 165 to weighing 177 now) I did that in like two months from eating a diet of protein and beer (Newcastle BROWN ale). Obviously my diet is more comple than just protein and that, yet the growth has been all muscle.

It's hard for me to gain weight, because i am a fighter who does a lot of cardio. For those of you who do a lot of cardio, the darker beer might help you gain easier.

[Obliterate]

I just got to this thread, but one thing about nutrition, don't undershoot your calories. You will not lose weight or gain muscle if you do that. I was quite surprised to find out that my maintenance level is around 5,000 cal a day (at 170 pounds), and for me to lose weight I need to eat around 4,000 cal a day, and to gain weight it would be around 5,500 to 6,000 pound. I am fairly active so I doubt everyone's would be that high. My first cutting phase I was eating like 2,700 cal and my weight just stopped...cause I was WAYYYYYYY underestimating my metabolism.

Oh and the three big exercises, Squat, Bench, Deadlift, I would add one more, weighted pull-ups.

For straps, never used em, and I don't like em. Just my preference, and I don't like belts either.

I find that doing cardio helps immensely with recovery and actually decreases that burning sensation from lifting weights. Just do cardio after weight lifting, 20 to 30 minutes. And I use a high intensity on the cardio. I'd rather go all out for 20 minutes then walk like a slug for 3 hours.

[MagnusMadness]

I just got to this thread, but one thing about nutrition, don't undershoot your calories. You will not lose weight or gain muscle if you do that. I was quite surprised to find out that my maintenance level is around 5,000 cal a day (at 170 pounds), and for me to lose weight I need to eat around 4,000 cal a day, and to gain weight it would be around 5,500 to 6,000 pound. I am fairly active so I doubt everyone's would be that high. My first cutting phase I was eating like 2,700 cal and my weight just stopped...cause I was WAYYYYYYY underestimating my metabolism.

That CAN'T be right LOL. That's eating 1000 calorie meals 5 times a day to MAINTAIN lol.....shit, I would get skinny fast!!! Cutting would be easy, but bulking would be a SON OF A BITCH!! LoL. If that's right, It would be safe to assume that you are either EXTREMELY active, or your metabolism is naturally out of control..because that is almost never the case for maintenance to be so high....

Oh and if and when you decide to bulk...maybe cut the balls out cardio to a minimum.....and there are no studies that say cardio post workout hastens recovery on a cellular level, it may just make you feel better....but alot of cardio right after you workout can be somewhat counterproductive, because you've already burned through ur blood sugar and glycogen stores....so now you're tapping into fatty cells and perhaps even muscle for energy...I think REIDAR posted before saying 6 hours should seperate cardio and weight lifting sessions...sounds about right.


It's hard for me to gain weight, because i am a fighter who does a lot of cardio. For those of you who do a lot of cardio, the darker beer might help you gain easier.

Careful with all the alcohol...if it helps you gain weight, it's usually not the good kind...alcohol slows the metabolism, lowers natural test levels, and is a bunch of empty calories among other things. Perhaps the high level of cardio you do kept you lean, good job.

What kind of cardio do you do?? I know being a fighter that cutting cardio back or out is out of the question, but the guy that trained me for a minute said all he does is sprints (not HIIT) to build endurance. Maybe you could that as your cardio, keeping your endurance up, while maybe not burning as many calories.

BTW, what circuit do you fight in?? Ever heard of international cage brawl?? That seems to be where alot of the guys I used to train with are fighting now.

[Soldier Zero]

For breakfast I got 60g of protein. Is that overdoing it for one meal/serving?

[MagnusMadness]

Back Off and Grow!
by Jack Reape


The Most Important Thing I Know About Training

When I got the opportunity to write an article for T-Nation, I asked myself, "Self, what's the most important thing you could talk about?" The answer was clear: back-off weeks!

Back-off weeks, planned periods of light training, are critical to any serious athlete when structured carefully. Backing off is so important that even those who use steroids need to do it. Problem is, most weight-trained athletes are unable or unwilling to take a break!

Look around your gym. I'll bet you see lifters of all disciplines doing the same sets, reps and weights month after month. You'll hear talk about never missing a workout and how a hardcore attitude is the key to getting bigger and stronger. You'll also see those same people on a plateau so big they probably think the world is flat!

Know a lot of drug-free or non-genetic freaks making constant progress? Probably not.

Unless they grasp the science of adaptation, once they pass the initial phases of training they'll reach a plateau and set up camp there. If you're on that plateau with them, this article will save you years of training frustration and months of pouring over Dr. Mel Siff’s Supertraining.

Let's break down the back-off week so you can start making progress again!


Concentrated vs. Distributed Loading

Siff points out that training loads are either defined as concentrated or distributed loading. Concentrated loading is where your training is such that you can't completely recover from each workout before the next. Distributed loading is where your training load is low enough so that you can fully recover before the next workout or workouts.

In theory, distributed loading is possible, but time under tension is also important. . . in theory. In practice, unless you have no job, no stress, you're on massive amounts of drugs, you eat a ton and sleep a lot (in other words, you're an unmarried pro-bodybuilder), your training is, in reality, concentrated loading.

It's widely accepted that in a concentrated loading cycle you can only go 4-6 weeks maximally without a back-off. While I'm dispensing with lots of boring and technical explanations, if you enjoy this type of thing I strongly advise buying Supertraining and taking a paid leave of absence from your job. This is where my unmarried pro-bodybuilder idea might come in handy.

While 4-6 weeks is a maximum time span, it's not optimal for most lifters. I'm confident that if all of T-Nation reviewed their training logs, the vast majority would discover nothing works for much longer than 3-4 weeks.


Drive Your Peaks, Plan Your Valleys

When I first read about maximal adaptation taking place in the second week of training and tapering off quickly afterwards, I was in immediate denial. All bodybuilding programs and almost all powerlifting programs I knew of at the time had no back-offs of any significance. Then I happened to find a book called Consistent Winning by Drs. Ronald Sandler and Dennis Lobstein, both endurance athletes and coaches. They insist it's possible to drive your training peaks by planning your valleys.

The good doctors go into all sorts of esoteric Fibonacci numbers, the Golden Ratio (don’t ask), and some interesting case studies to lay out some naturally occurring cycles. The part you need to know is that they show that three weeks of hard training, followed by a back-off week, is the optimal cycle length and will help you avoid bad training weeks.

Why push a training cycle beyond three weeks on the off chance week four will be better? I submit that if you're going hard on weeks 1-3, on week four you'll almost always perform poorly. Instead, back off and start back up again. In a 52 week year, if you do three weeks of hard training and a one week back-off, you get 13 cycles. Are 13 PRs a year possible? Yes!

Take a look at the recently published training cycles of people like Louie Simmons, Boris Sheiko, Robert Roman and Pavel Tsatsouline. While they're all weightlifting or powerlifting focused, they build their cycles around a "three weeks forward, one week back" schedule. Applying this to bodybuilding is very germane.

If you keep your volume constant and increase your intensity over three weeks, or increase volume while keeping intensity fairly constant over three weeks, you'll simply gain muscle if you eat enough. Note that I didn't mention a monster pump, going to failure, barely being able to crawl from the gym, or wearing a do-rag and sunglasses as critical to gaining muscle!


Back-Off Guidelines

The back-off weeks will help you avoid an injury, more fully recover, and also set you up for more gains. During a back-off week you'll feel yourself itching to train, but resist this and only do very nominal work.

Some guidelines: During the back-off week, perform only half the volume and two-thirds of the intensity, but only on one compound exercise per body part. You can also have some fun by doing an exercise for high reps, like bench press with bodyweight, floor press with dumbbells, walking lunges, low back machine, etc.

The goal of this week is to enhance recovery and position yourself for future gains, and nothing else. Eating well, a massage, some chiropractic treatment, some stretching sessions, some serious hot time in the hot tub, a long walk, or a nap or two are good ideas during this week.

By Friday or Saturday you'll feel a physical "itching" in your muscles. This is technically known as Delayed Training Effect, or "what it feels like to be almost fully recovered." Full recovery can take as long your preceding training cycle, so if you're doing three week cycles, it would take at least 2-3 weeks of back-off to be fully recovered. This is called "tapering to a peak" and is a whole other subject.


How I Back-Off

Okay, now for the homestretch and how to put this to work. As a powerlifter I apply this concept by going heavy on week one with moderate volume, a bit lighter week two with a lot of volume, then on week three I go as heavy as possible with more volume than week one, but less than week two.

I wave volume and intensity separately, but holding volume constant and just increasing intensity is also good. Week four I back-off with either the NFL press combine test (225 pounds for max reps) or a few sets of high rep dumbbell floor press. That’s it. For lower body maybe some reverse hypers for 15-20 reps or maybe some Romanian deadlifts. Again, that's it. I take it easy the rest of the week.

Other top powerlifters have also had success with a similar plan. The Metal Militia guys are some of the biggest and best benchers on the planet. Their supplementation is, shall we say, more "diverse" than mine. They train like maniacs and then do nothing on week four. That's right, nothing!

"What about experiencing atrophy (muscle loss) from not stimulating a muscle for 72 hours?" you might ask. To which I might respond, "Horse puckey!" If you try this you'll be fine, and you might even find yourself growing muscle right in front of your eyes on week four.

You can apply this plan to any bodybuilding workout scheme. A great approach to try here is Chad Waterbury’s 10 x 3 for 1 cycle, 5 x 5 for 1 cycle, and then 4 x 6 for a cycle. Make a bigger jump in intensity from week one to two than week two to three. Your max adaptation really is between weeks one and two.

For example, you could start at 70% of 1RM on week one, jumping to 80% of 1RM on week two, then only jumping 5% (to 85%) on week three. You can train a body part twice a week as long as you change your main complex exercise or rep scheme.

I prefer different exercises as I don’t like high reps. For example:

Monday: Flat bench press

Tuesday: Squat

Thursday: Close-grip or incline bench press

Friday: Deadlift or Romanian deadlift

Throw in one or two assistance exercises for 3-5 sets of 5-8 reps and you'll have a winner. Ten and higher rep sets have a small place in training, but keeping it heavy and low rep is better in almost every case. Another article for another time!


Other Applications

Some other applications that are possible here include:

1) Plan back-off weeks to coincide with vacations or business trips.

2) Take an unplanned back-off week if family or job stress overwhelms your training.

3) Getting sick? Good time for a back-off week!

If you're one of those gym rats that always hammers a workout no matter how stressed, sick or busy you are, all I can ask is, "How's that plateau? Is the view nice from there?"

I spent the first five years of my training learning to never miss a workout. I've spent the last 25 learning which ones to miss or throttle back.

Honing this approach has helped tremendously in bringing my bench from 435 to 525 pounds (at 43 years old) and my total from 1670 to 1800 in the last year. These lifts were all done in single ply gear and I'm tested randomly for drugs year round.




Catapult Your Progress!

If you wisely decide to try this, one last point to clarify: The first time you try the "three weeks forward and one week back" cycle, you also need to rest the first week. Yes, back off a week, hit it hard for three weeks, back off week, repeat.

Doctors Sandler and Lobstein use a great analogy about a catapult being set by pulling it backward. Just charging into a new workout approach already beat up by your current training will yield failure. A back-off week, on the other hand, will really cause your training to shoot forward. Having a life outside the gym, at least every fourth week, also just might help you avoid that unmarried bodybuilder thing I mentioned above.


About the Author
Jack Reape is a three time Military National Powerlifting Champion and competes several times a year when not busy with family and work. He graduated from the US Naval Academy with a B.S. in Operations Analysis.


Shu, this is why I have you unloading every 4th week!! See I did my homework to write your program....seriously...I even posted it at a few bodybuilding forums for critique....the only thing mentioned was that if you are a newb you might have the work capacity for the program, but I have faith in you!! heh.


For breakfast I got 60g of protein. Is that overdoing it for one meal/serving?

What are you eating? 60gs is alot, if you are stuffing your face to get this many grams then you could cut back a little and make it easier on yourself. 60gs of protein isn't going to hurt you though...Although one doctor told a friends father that the protein shakes he was drinking would cause complications in either his liver or kidneys, it escapes me right now, maybe some of the other guys know what I'm talking about.

[Soldier Zero]

What are you eating? 60gs is alot, if you are stuffing your face to get this many grams then you could cut back a little and make it easier on yourself. 60gs of protein isn't going to hurt you though...Although one doctor told a friends father that the protein shakes he was drinking would cause complications in either his liver or kidneys, it escapes me right now, maybe some of the other guys know what I'm talking about.

I ate breakfast plus a protein shake. It was a few egg whites and a piece of whole grain toast. I guess I'll cut out that protein shake in the morning since it's an overload. I get 30 from the meal and 30 from the shake.

*EDIT: Just finished reading the article, good stuff. :tup:

[MagnusMadness]

I ate breakfast plus a protein shake. It was a few egg whites and a piece of whole grain toast. I guess I'll cut out that protein shake in the morning since it's an overload. I get 30 from the meal and 30 from the shake.


Well that's what I would do. Some may disagree on the basis that they want something to digest quickly after being asleep for 8 hours or so, but I like the amount of calories I get from breakfast (eggs are an awesome source of protein BTW) and the fact that I'm not going to be hungry again in an hour.

[Soldier Zero]

Yeah, I need a decent sized breakfast cause the meal after that is usually around noon time. I only eat eggs for the protein; not too into eating chicken breasts in the morning. :sweat:

[Larry Flynt]

subs

[Soldier Zero]

subs

Home-made ones are probably good, Subway stuff might not be. Plus, I like preparing my own food.

[MagnusMadness]

Home-made ones are probably good, Subway stuff might not be. Plus, I like preparing my own food.


Speaking of subway, there's one right next door to my facility....chicken bacon ranch totally ownz...I don't know exactly but I think it has shitloads of calories....I get one kinda early and eat half then the other half a couple hours later....the double chocolate chip cookies are top teir as well.

[b1gazn]

Speaking of subway, there's one right next door to my facility....chicken bacon ranch totally ownz...I don't know exactly but I think it has shitloads of calories....I get one kinda early and eat half then the other half a couple hours later....the double chocolate chip cookies are top teir as well.
too bad im at the losing weight phase. cuz that shit sounds good.

[Soldier Zero]

Monster deals at Sports Authority, sales end tomorrow.

Olympic-sized bench that does decline, incline, flat (of course), military press position, preacher curls, and leg extensions/curls for $125; $150 if you don't have the coupon from Sunday's advertisement. The bench is Gold Gym's brand.

[Soldier Zero]

Just came back from Sports Authority, lots of equipment at reasonable prices.

[dial911]

Hmmm.... I have been doing my every other day workouts for a little over a year now and have had some decent gains; but I'm wondering.... am I overtraining? All of my workouts are with 40 pound dumbells, should I change my shit up?

Here's my workout:
5 Sets, 30 Seconds rest in between, same workout every other day.
10x Curls
10x Upright Row
40x Shrugs (50x on last set)
10x Military Press
10x Butterfly w/ 30 lbs.

This is what I look like currently:
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/666/cam08714yg.jpg

I am trying to bulk up more, any advice? I already eat 4 solid meals a day and I usually run to my summer job on my off days. I'm going to hit the weights in 2 hours.

[leon_shore]

Hmmm.... I have been doing my every other day workouts for a little over a year now and have had some decent gains; but I'm wondering.... am I overtraining? All of my workouts are with 40 pound dumbells, should I change my shit up?

Here's my workout:
5 Sets, 30 Seconds rest in between, same workout every other day.
10x Curls
10x Upright Row
40x Shrugs (50x on last set)
10x Military Press
10x Butterfly w/ 30 lbs.

This is what I look like currently:
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/666/cam08714yg.jpg

I am trying to bulk up more, any advice? I already eat 4 solid meals a day and I usually run to my summer job on my off days. I'm going to hit the weights in 2 hours.

40 lb. dumbells for every exercise? Do you workout at home? If so, the best thing you can do is get a gym membership. That way, you have more options. I go to 24-Hour-Fitness paying less than $20 a month. The new member fee was 150+, but was worth it. 24-Hour is a good start, but it's a pretty casual gym. The only reason I go there is because they're open 24 hours (not at every location however), and it's cheap.

If you're not really sure you're overtraining, chances are you are not. However 5x10 every other day seems a little overkill.

One last question. Is the routine you posted the only exercises you do?

[dial911]

40 lb. dumbells for every exercise? Do you workout at home? If so, the best thing you can do is get a gym membership. That way, you have more options. I go to 24-Hour-Fitness paying less than $20 a month. The new member fee was 150+, but was worth it. 24-Hour is a good start, but it's a pretty casual gym. The only reason I go there is because they're open 24 hours (not at every location however), and it's cheap.

If you're not really sure you're overtraining, chances are you are not. However 5x10 every other day seems a little overkill.

One last question. Is the routine you posted the only exercises you do?

I have access to a military gym but honestly... getting there is a pain in the ass (Fort Myer, right next the Pentagon... yeah). 30 min. workouts at home are a breeze and are much more convenient.

The routine I posted are the only exercises I do. I could try the gym thing for a while though and see how that goes. Any routines you have in mind that would add some more bulk?

[Soldier Zero]

dial911, you should try getting in tricep exercises, and some squats or deadlifts into your routine. Just one or two more exercises, but it'll cover more muscle groups for you.

[leon_shore]

I have access to a military gym but honestly... getting there is a pain in the ass (Fort Myer, right next the Pentagon... yeah). 30 min. workouts at home are a breeze and are much more convenient.

The routine I posted are the only exercises I do. I could try the gym thing for a while though and see how that goes. Any routines you have in mind that would add some more bulk?



At this point, anything with enough resistance and a good diet will provide results. Since you're limited to working out with 40 lb dumbells, you're not going to get vary far. How long does it take to get to the military gym? If it takes less than 30 minutes to get there, I'd go for it.

If/when you do decide to go, take it easy for the first week or two. Since you're not accustomed to using over 40 lbs., get used to the increased intensity. Stick to a rep range of approximately 8-12. Stick to compound lifts, such as Bench press, Squat, Deadlift, or Shoulder press. A good rule of thumb is, if you're using alot of weight for that exercise, it's a good exercise. There are exceptions to this rule such as the leg press (it has its uses however).

If you're going to stick to working out every other day, cut back on the number of sets. That way, you're allowing the muscles to recover. Otherwise, you'd see negligible results.

If you are serious about it, check out Arnold's Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0684857219/sr=8-8/qid=1151980906/ref=sr_1_8/102-9507560-3963323?ie=UTF8

It's a great start for beginners. However, some of the information is outdated, such as Arnold's routines (which are brutal). The book covers the majority of lifts that you can do for a particular muscle group(s). All in all, it should get you started on the right path. Visit the bodybuilding dot com forums and articles. There is a wealth of knowledge there.

[dial911]

Talk about odd timing.

I stretched 10 minutes ago and started curling. When I hit 7 (BTW I curl both dumbells at the same time... is this a no-no) I felt a sharp pain in my lower left lat. I immediately stopped, put the dumbells down, and took a short steamy shower. It still feels kind of tense as I type this, is this what overtraining feels like? I stretched a little bit and can pinpoint where the pain is; so what now I'm kind of worried :confused:

[Du Fugitive]

...no, that's not overtraining. Overtraining is CNS failure, not when you strain a muscle. Google it up if you want to know the symptoms. If you think you messed up a lat, it probably means your DB curl form is bad.

You have a lot of problems. If you really want to bulk up, you need to eat and lift heavy. 40 lb dumbbells will not cut it at all. Like people have said, stick to compound exercises when you find a gym.

What else do you need? You need to hit more muscle groups. You're not working your quads, calves, lower back, hamstrings, and most of your upper back with that routine. Until you get to a gym, you can get by with lunges, bulgarian squats, DB rows, etc. etc. If you're really serious about bulking up, you will need heavier weights.

Also, your routine is pretty ludicrous. Find a better one. Look up sample routines like 5x5, HST based programs, Max-OT, etc.

You should not be doing 5 sets of 10 of anything....ever. If you're trying to bulk up, you shouldn't really even be working in the same rep ranges all the time. The old 3x10 routines really have gone out the windows in the last decade.
The only reason you're probably not overtraining is that 40 lb dumbbells have gotten too light for you at this point. Also, 30 seconds rest between sets isn't enough.

[MagnusMadness]

Talk about odd timing.

I stretched 10 minutes ago and started curling. When I hit 7 (BTW I curl both dumbells at the same time... is this a no-no) I felt a sharp pain in my lower left lat. I immediately stopped, put the dumbells down, and took a short steamy shower. It still feels kind of tense as I type this, is this what overtraining feels like? I stretched a little bit and can pinpoint where the pain is; so what now I'm kind of worried :confused:


The symptoms for overtraining are a little more obscure and subtle, like lethargy and loss of sleep, sometimes even loss of strength...IMO alot of people overtrain and don't know it. Just sounds like you might've pulled something or even a very mild strain.

Curling with both hands simultaneously is not a bad thing, I have clients curl both arms at the same time to save time and keep them moving. Stretching right before you workout, however, is a no no....based on all the recent studies I've read. Do warm up sets with light weight on every exercise...then stretch after you're finished.



Du Fugitive:

I agree with everything you said for the most part except this:


Also, 30 seconds rest between sets isn't enough.

That depends first on the individual, and second what they are training for. Also, what level of intensity they are using plays a large role in how much rest is required..alot of people include resting intervals as a variable when periodizing their program. For example:

Week 1: RI 60 seconds, all exercises 4x8
Week 2: RI 120 seconds, 5x5
Week 3: RI 30 seconds, 3x12

Feel me? It's a way of increasing the workload without increasing the volume.

[Du Fugitive]

He's trying to get bigger, not increase his ability to lift for high reps.

30 seconds isn't enough for what he's going for if he's doing it all the time and not switching up rest time and rep schemes. Anyhow, I wasn't trying to write a novel. I was trying to get him to do research on his own.

It's rare you'll see anyone just rest for 30 seconds either unless they're trying to increase lactic acid tolerance or supersetting with another exercise.

And if you're trying to avoid a catabolic state....well yeah...

[MagnusMadness]

He's trying to get bigger, not increase his ability to lift for high reps.

30 seconds isn't enough for what he's going for if he's doing it all the time and not switching up rest time and rep schemes. Anyhow, I wasn't trying to write a novel. I was trying to get him to do research on his own.

It's rare you'll see anyone just rest for 30 seconds either unless they're trying to increase lactic acid tolerance or supersetting with another exercise.

And if you're trying to avoid a catabolic state....well yeah...


How many people do you see actually time their rest intervals?? How many people do you know personally that use an effective form of periodization?? I know 1, the guy I'm training. Of course I live in alabama, I think the entire state is about a decade behind the times in more than just resistance training.

Come to think of it...how much different are supersets/dropsets and short resting intervals...is it the muscle that needs the rest or the person?? Either way, I rest for longer than 30 seconds...but short resting intervals are not unheard of and definitely not advocated against in a lot of cases.

[denjin]

How many people do you see actually time their rest intervals??

Hehe, I'm a weirdo.

I've found that timing it actually shortens my workouts 'cause it keeps me goal-oriented.

I want comment on the "40 pounds won't cut it" stuff. Now dial911 looks like he could readily lift more than 40 pounds, but I don't want other people buying into that stuff.

Use the weight that is appropriate to YOU. Following around giants won't do anything but hurt you.

[HeaT]

short rest intervals are the most effective for hypertrophy...it is generally around 30-90 seconds for the most effective muscle growth...

im outi

Roberth

[KaKaRoTtE]

2 Questions. First: Does face fat just come off like fat from every other part of your body? Or is there some kind of certain exercise you can do for your face? As weird as that sounds.

As of now I feel like I've lost 10lbs of fat. I've gained muscle on top of that so I'm not worried about measuring myself. It'll probably say the same thing.

I have a routine similar to Dial911. I only have 20 lb dumbells right now but I'm not trying to build hardcore muscle. Just tone up and lose weight is my first goal.

4 sets, 10 reps of each.
Hammer curls
Concentration curls
Biceps curls
Shoulder press
Front shoulder raise
Side shoulder raise
Shoulder shrug
Butterfly
Some other excersises for my back and chest I don't remember the names of heh.

Also, rest for awhile, then do 30 min of cardio. This is almost everyday. I rest about 3 days out of the week.

Second:Too much? Say for.... losing weight, tighting up?

[Obliterate]

Yeah my metabolism is fast, and I eat like 7 to 8 meals a day. It's really hard, and fuckin expensive cause eating that much costs a lot. Strange thing is that if I don't eat enough I gain weight.

[MagnusMadness]

Where you at chaos?!?!?!?@?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[adonis_minus_20]

I said I would post some pics, so here they are. Please go easy, as I'm just getting started, but I do want to get some feedback. I just started lifting and such at the beginning of this year, and have lost over 70 lbs. to date. I won't even post a before picture, as it's really bad. Others who post in this thread should put some pics up as well.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/adonis_minus_20/Flex_1.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/adonis_minus_20/Flex_2.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/adonis_minus_20/Flex_3.jpg

Jim

[MagnusMadness]

I said I would post some pics, so here they are. Please go easy, as I'm just getting started, but I do want to get some feedback. I just started lifting and such at the beginning of this year, and have lost over 70 lbs. to date. I won't even post a before picture, as it's really bad. Others who post in this thread should put some pics up as well.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/adonis_minus_20/Flex_1.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/adonis_minus_20/Flex_2.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/adonis_minus_20/Flex_3.jpg

Jim


That face....it's going to haunt my dreams..J/K....If I were you....I would start trying to put a little mass on....it will be easier to cut next time around with the extra muscle...

[Raz0r]

I said I would post some pics, so here they are. Please go easy, as I'm just getting started, but I do want to get some feedback. I just started lifting and such at the beginning of this year, and have lost over 70 lbs. to date. I won't even post a before picture, as it's really bad. Others who post in this thread should put some pics up as well.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/adonis_minus_20/Flex_1.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/adonis_minus_20/Flex_2.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/adonis_minus_20/Flex_3.jpg

Jim

Your nipples are godly. So is that body hair.

[adonis_minus_20]

That face....it's going to haunt my dreams..J/K....If I were you....I would start trying to put a little mass on....it will be easier to cut next time around with the extra muscle...

Lol...I call it my "Natural Born Killers" look. I was encouraged by friends at work to smile a lot, so that I would not look scary. I'm still not done with cutting at this point, although it's very hard going now. I started to do a lot of cardio again, HIIT style, and I probably do anywhere from 5 - 8 hours per week. I just want to see my abs, but it seems to be very hard to do. I typically eat anywhere from 1500 - 2000 calories per day (high protein, low fat, etc.). I just don't want to start bulking, and gain a bunch of fat now after working so hard.


Your nipples are godly. So is that body hair.

The piercings do kick it up a notch, lol, and as far as body hair goes, I am the king.

Jim

[Chaos]

Hey magnus post up the routine we used the other day would ya? I'm still kickin in here nothing really exciting going on though. Let me know about the back dude as well.

[MagnusMadness]

Hey magnus post up the routine we used the other day would ya? I'm still kickin in here nothing really exciting going on though. Let me know about the back dude as well.

Upper/Lower/Off/Upper/Lower/Off/Off


Upper Day 1:

Bench Press (Horizontal Push)
Bent Rows (horizontal Pull)
DB Military Press (Vertical Push)
CG Lat Pulldowns (Vertical Pull) *looking to replace this next week, still looking into good alternatives with the available equipment...if you have a gym with a decent lat pull machine then by all means....you saw how difficult it was to set this up though...
Incline Flyes/Reverse Flyes superset (accessory)
BB curls/Tricep Pushdowns (accessory) **optional**

Lower Day 1:

Back Squats (quad dominant)
SLDL's (hip/ham dominant)
Lunges (quad dominant, but hits everything to a certain degree)
Calf Raises (accessory)
Abs (accessory

Upper Day 2:
WG Lat Pulls (vertical pull)
Push Press (vertical push) This is the standing military press we did the other day.
Spider Rows (horizontal pull) *I don't have heavy enough dumbells here, you may where you are, I personally would prefer the dumbells.
Incline DB Press (horizontal push) *not too steep, as this would make it more of a vertical push
Cross-Bench Pullovers/Lateral Raises Superset (accessory)
Lying Tricep Extensions/DB curls (accessory) **optional

Lower Day 2:
Deadlifts (hip dominant)
Front Squats (quad dominant)
Good mornings (hip/ham dominant) *will do these this week...looking forward to it. I'm SURE that erik's NEVER done these, it will be interesting to say the least.
Calf Raises (accessory)
Abs (accessory)

Week 1: 3x10-12
Week 2: 5x3-5
Week 3: 4x6-8
Week 4 (unload/active recovery): 2x15 (25RM) NO ACCESSORY WORK
Repeat.

Think that pretty much covers it....you know the rest...

[thedude.com]

this is important ...

if a body builder has finally reached their goal having 9% bodyfat and acquired their body mass and builded they wanted , HOW TO MAINTAIN IT ?? i'm scared of failing this part and later gained additional body fats for having too much celebrations and inactivity :S .

that's whyi saved my hydroxycut for the next 2 monthes :S . december is an important month for me .my target of having 9 % body fat should reach at early december .

[KaKaRoTtE]

this is important ...

if a body builder has finally reached their goal having 9% bodyfat and acquired their body mass and builded they wanted , HOW TO MAINTAIN IT ?? i'm scared of failing this part and later gained additional body fats for having too much celebrations and inactivity :S .

that's whyi saved my hydroxycut for the next 2 monthes :S . december is an important month for me .

How'd that Hydroxycut work for ya? I'm thinking about trying it out.

[Chaos]

You maintain the bodymass by taking in an equal amount of calories as you burn. Simply stay active in the gym and match your calories to maintanence level and you should be fine. Keep somewhat of an eye on macronutrient (fat,carb,protein) ratio as well. No need to eat tuna and chicken but don't go back to the sodas either.

[adonis_minus_20]

that's whyi saved my hydroxycut for the next 2 monthes :S . december is an important month for me .my target of having 9 % body fat should reach at early december .

How do you know you'll be at 9% body fat by December? What are you doing to accomplish this? How well does the hydroxycut work?

Jim

[Soldier Zero]

Need help on a new schedule I want to do. Here it is first.

Mon - chest & back (possibly shoulders)
Tues - biceps & triceps
Wed - legs (if not Monday for shoulders, then this day)
Thurs - chest & back
Fri - biceps & triceps

I haven't actually started this, but I'm trying to just lift the weekdays. For Wednesday, I'm concerned on what I should be doing since it's my only day for legs. I'd be squatting and deadlifting, but since they work similar groups, should I change it or separate them?

Any suggestions, changes, or whatever would be great.

[MagnusMadness]

Need help on a new schedule I want to do. Here it is first.

Mon - chest & back (possibly shoulders)
Tues - biceps & triceps
Wed - legs (if not Monday for shoulders, then this day)
Thurs - chest & back
Fri - biceps & triceps

I haven't actually started this, but I'm trying to just lift the weekdays. For Wednesday, I'm concerned on what I should be doing since it's my only day for legs. I'd be squatting and deadlifting, but since they work similar groups, should I change it or separate them?

Any suggestions, changes, or whatever would be great.

F-

First off....drug free bodybuilders should try and keep the workouts to 4 days a week and never more than 2 days in a row IMHO. Seperate the larger muscles, pairing them with smaller muscles that recieve ancillary work on the same days....Example....Chest and triceps....or Back and Biceps...starting with the large muscle group and finishing with the smaller...

It looks like you want to hit your upper body twice and legs only once...if you are doing body part splits then you should be hitting muscles only once a week...if you want to use a higher frequency program, you should consider upper/lower splits, full body routines, or push/pull splits.

Squatting and deadlifting are both leg exercises, but they work different parts of the leg mostly....squats are quad dominant and deads are hip/hamstring dominant. Every leg day should use some form of both exercises....

[Soldier Zero]

F-

First off....drug free bodybuilders should try and keep the workouts to 4 days a week and never more than 2 days in a row IMHO. Seperate the larger muscles, pairing them with smaller muscles that recieve ancillary work on the same days....Example....Chest and triceps....or Back and Biceps...starting with the large muscle group and finishing with the smaller...

It looks like you want to hit your upper body twice and legs only once...if you are doing body part splits then you should be hitting muscles only once a week...if you want to use a higher frequency program, you should consider upper/lower splits, full body routines, or push/pull splits.

Squatting and deadlifting are both leg exercises, but they work different parts of the leg mostly....squats are quad dominant and deads are hip/hamstring dominant. Every leg day should use some form of both exercises....

Thanks, I'll change some of it.

[thedude.com]

How do you know you'll be at 9% body fat by December? What are you doing to accomplish this? How well does the hydroxycut work?

Jim


i'm cosplaying kenshiro :S

[TehNewGuy]

Im leaving for China in 2 weeks for a months stay in the country side. I anticipate that i'll lose probably around 4-5 pounds while im there since I wont be eating the amount of calories that Im accustomed to nor as often. Could anyone here suggest a weightless workout routin that could help me keep some of my pounds?

[bill_rizer]

hey magnus how often do you recommend training my biceps directly?

would I train by triceps at the same time also?

[MagnusMadness]

hey magnus how often do you recommend training my biceps directly?

would I train by triceps at the same time also?

Post the rest of your workout, and I'll tell you when I think you should work them directly...

The rule of thumb though....don't give arms their own day, IMO it's stupid. If you have a shoulder day, you can work arms on that day....otherwise...on a normal body part split where you work chest and back on seperate days work one of the muscles on that day...most do chest and tri's and back/bi's together.

[bill_rizer]

lol actually thats kind of what I have been doing,

on seesion one I do chest/shoudlers/triceps

session two is all legs.

and session three I work back/bicep.

I was thinking on session one should I also add biceps? since im already doing triceps I dunno if I would be pushing it too much.

[MagnusMadness]

lol actually thats kind of what I have been doing,

on seesion one I do chest/shoudlers/triceps

session two is all legs.

and session three I work back/bicep.

I was thinking on session one should I also add biceps? since im already doing triceps I dunno if I would be pushing it too much.


Well after doing chest and shoulders you really don't have to do very much for the triceps....one MAYBE two exercises would suffice.

[denjin]

Alright shu, as promised ur full body program...to be done in this fashion...on/off/on/off/on/off/off.

Day 1:
Squats (quad dominant)
Bench Press (horizontal push)
Bent Rows (horizontal pull)
Hyper Extensions (hip/ham dominant)
Standing BB Military Press (vertical push)
Close Grip Lat Pulldowns (vertical pull)

Day2:
Deadlifts (hip/ham dominant)
Pull ups (assisted or weighted, just get the reps desired) (vertical pull)
Dips (vertical push)
Lunges (quad dominant)
Close Grip Pulley rows (horizontal pull)
Incline Press (not TOO steep) (Horizontal Push

Day3:
Front Squat or Hack Squat (quad dominant)
Seated DB Military Press (vertical push
Wide Grip Lat Pulls (vertical pull
Stiff Legged Deadlifts (hip/ham dominant)
Decline Press (horizontal push)
DB Rows (horizontal pull)

Since you are kinduva newb, I want you doing 12-15 rep sets the first couple weeks with this program....once you are CERTAIN that form is flawless and stabilizers are up to the challenge of heavier weights...periodize in this manner

Week 1: 3x6-8 reps
Week 2: 3x8-12
Week 3: 3x10, supersetting movements on opposing planes....for example...on day 1 week 3 you would superset bench presses and bent rows...and superset the arnolds and CG lat pulldowns.
Week 4 (UNLOAD): 2x15 light weights.
Repeat....except next week 4, instead of unloading...just take the week off. At this point, you might try a different program or a different form of periodization....If you like it alot, then after the third cycle, start changing exercises, keeping them on the corresponding movement planes..and definitely change forms of periodization...I like undulating periodization too. Or you could do linear too...here's a couple examples

Undulating:
Week 1: 3x10
Week 2: 5x5
Week 3: 4x8
Unload

Or

Linear: Accumulation
Week 1: 3x8
Week 2: 4x8
Week 3: 5x8
Unload.

The exercises that say BB or DB, I want you using that particular aparatus (sp?)....for some of those pressing exercises, it's up to you, barbell or dumbells whichever you prefer...I listed the different movement planes in italics so you can kind of see how I put together this program, also...if you want to change up exercises from time to time you can do so, just make sure the exercise you are swapping out is in the same movement plane, so as not to fuck up the program I laid out. For instance....You want to do dips instead of military presses....well they are both vertical pushing movements, so you could swap those out at will.

You don't have to train to failure, but with intensity...since you are periodizing rep schemes you will want to keep a journal so you know what weights you are using for what reps....feel me?

I think that's it...hope that helps...If I remember something else that's important I'll post up later.

Do I need to do curls to keep the biceps worked out?
Which exercises work the biceps?

[bill_rizer]

ok thanks magnus.

[denjin]

199.9999891 grams is 0.4409245 pounds.
150.0000032 is 0.3306934
100.0000172 is 0.2204623

I was doing some research. So I guess as long as you eat two quarter-pounders a day, you're fine as far as 1g of protein per pound is concerned.

Also:
With the stuff I posted, will I need to do curls? With a minor lack of delayed-onset of muscle soreness, I'm not sure if I'm "really" working my biceps.

[Soldier Zero]

Also:
With the stuff I posted, will I need to do curls? With a minor lack of delayed-onset of muscle soreness, I'm not sure if I'm "really" working my biceps.

If biceps aren't getting enough work just toss in BB or DB curls; simple and they get the job done.

[MagnusMadness]

199.9999891 grams is 0.4409245 pounds.
150.0000032 is 0.3306934
100.0000172 is 0.2204623

I was doing some research. So I guess as long as you eat two quarter-pounders a day, you're fine as far as 1g of protein per pound is concerned.

Also:
With the stuff I posted, will I need to do curls? With a minor lack of delayed-onset of muscle soreness, I'm not sure if I'm "really" working my biceps.


With full body programs 3x a week, soreness will be minimal....doesn't mean you aren't working it hard enough....key word....enough.

The exercises listed that work the biceps are the pulling movements....

add in curls if you want to...

[JamMasterJom]

magnus, i see youve got a lot of knowledge on the subject so im gonna direct this question towards you

im currently 6'2 180lbs and ive been lifting for about 2 years without any real emphasis on cardio

i started out at 220lbs in march of last year i believe, and i brought that down to 170 early this year and im now back to 180, but i have a gut. what is the best way to lose this excess fat while still building muscle? what should i be getting a lot of and staying away from nutrition wise? and how much cardio should i be doing? ive been jogging atleast 1 mile every morning for the past 3 weeks and sticking to mainly protein while keeping it low on carbs and calories but i havent seen any real improvement.

any help is appreciated, thanks

edit: also id like to mention that i take n large protein shakes (http://www.a1supplements.com/detail.aspx?ID=1402&Name=N-Large-2-10-lbs.) everyday

[HeaT]

Post the rest of your workout, and I'll tell you when I think you should work them directly...

The rule of thumb though....don't give arms their own day, IMO it's stupid. If you have a shoulder day, you can work arms on that day....otherwise...on a normal body part split where you work chest and back on seperate days work one of the muscles on that day...most do chest and tri's and back/bi's together.

i have never heard that rule of thumb, never...in fact from what ive read, working out opposing muscles groups is benefical to muscle growth...

im outi

Roberth

[Soldier Zero]

Am I suppose to do static stretching after my entire workout is done, or after I finish exercises for that one muscle group? (like chest)

[Remy Martin]

I dont think he was saying doing opposing muscle groups is necessarily bad. it's just that there is no muscle in the arm big enough to warrant an entire day devoted to just that. devoting an entire day to arms and you could start flirting with overtraining

[Chaos]

Jam Master- The reason your not losing any appreciable weight is the fact that your consuming a 600+ calorie weight gaining shake everyday. That thing has like 80 carb grams off the top every morning so its totally ruining any attempt at lowering carb and calorie levels you make. Drop it back to a designer protein shake and you'll still get 30+ protein grams for like 250 calories (mixed with milk) and vastly lower carbs.

Heat- He is talking to an arm only day in reference to growth periods and new school body splits. Since growth periods allow for you to train bodyparts twice weekly you should focus on the large muscle groups and not waste a day training only arms. To many days a week in the gym will kill any naturals progress quickly due to overtraining and outright fatigue.

[MagnusMadness]

i have never heard that rule of thumb, never...in fact from what ive read, working out opposing muscles groups is benefical to muscle growth...

im outi

Roberth

While we're at it let's devote an entire day to the soleus and gastrocnemius....those are about as big as the bi's and tri's in a well proportioned bodybuilder...but who would devote 2 days a week to that?? Nobody....but everybody wants big chests and arms so those guys kill em twice a week and make little to no progress. Isolation work should make up roughly 10% of a solid program and the rest should be heavy compound lifts to get the most work done in the least amount of time.

[JamMasterJom]

thx chaos

also, is there a certain amount of cardio i should be doing everyday to make the weight loss go by as fast as possible?

[MagnusMadness]

magnus, i see youve got a lot of knowledge on the subject so im gonna direct this question towards you

im currently 6'2 180lbs and ive been lifting for about 2 years without any real emphasis on cardio

i started out at 220lbs in march of last year i believe, and i brought that down to 170 early this year and im now back to 180, but i have a gut. what is the best way to lose this excess fat while still building muscle? what should i be getting a lot of and staying away from nutrition wise? and how much cardio should i be doing? ive been jogging atleast 1 mile every morning for the past 3 weeks and sticking to mainly protein while keeping it low on carbs and calories but i havent seen any real improvement.

any help is appreciated, thanks

edit: also id like to mention that i take n large protein shakes (http://www.a1supplements.com/detail.aspx?ID=1402&Name=N-Large-2-10-lbs.) everyday


Chaos is right....if you must drink such a high calorie protein shake (I'm not opposed to them...) then just drink one a day...post workout...in water...If you are doing a cut right then the progress will be slow...sometimes the mirror doesn't tell the tale that the scale does. When you see yourself on a daily basis in the mirror the 1-2 pounds you lose a week won't show right away...

Also, cutting fat while building muscle is next to impossible unless you are brand new to lifting...it sucks but that's just the way it is brother.

If you are intent on cutting then foods to stick to would be lean proteins (grilled chicken, fish, etc) fibrous veggies, and complex/slow burning carbs (oats, black beans, sweet potatoes, brown rice etc) Be eating 5-6 times a day with small to moderate portion sizes and cut out the red meat (it's not really bad but it's expensive to eat lean red meats like lean sirloin or filets every night, a normal ribeye might have up to 60gs of fat!!! I know right)

With the cardio....if you want to get technical with it you can time your cardio instead of going for a pre set distance....and 20 minutes a day is fine...and not necessarily everyday...4-5 times a week is great. Try doing your running in intervals....include brisk walks, jogging, and balls out sprints in your cardio program to get the best results....HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) is great for fat loss. Excessive cardio or cardio at innappropriate times (before or after lifting) puts muscle at risk of being lost for energy. A good time for it is just as soon as you wake before breakfast or so I've heard.

Hope that helps, but it is still up to you to do the work, good luck!!

[mr. newbie]

can you guys pleaseeeee post some basic cardio facts?

i heard i'm supposed to burn more than i eat. but wouldn't i end up like this:
100 cal breakfast
-200 workout
_________
-100
+300 cal lunch
_________
200 cals

how do i ever lose weight?

[MagnusMadness]

can you guys pleaseeeee post some basic cardio facts?

i heard i'm supposed to burn more than i eat. but wouldn't i end up like this:
100 cal breakfast
-200 workout
_________
-100
+300 cal lunch
_________
200 cals

how do i ever lose weight?

You also have to factor in your basal metabolism and the calories you burn from everyday activities...cardio is important more for boosting metabolism for an extended period of time rather than the actual calories burned in a single bout of say running.

[MechZZ]

Hey, this girl I jog with wants to start working out her arms to start getting them toned.

Don't exactly know how much weight and rep she needs to do but I know it's low weight and high rep....

She weighs 112 pounds and is 5'2''

So I was thinking something like 2 1/2 lb dumb bells and like 50 reps for each exercise? is that about right?

[MagnusMadness]

Hey, this girl I jog with wants to start working out her arms to start getting them toned.

Don't exactly know how much weight and rep she needs to do but I know it's low weight and high rep....

She weighs 112 pounds and is 5'2''

So I was thinking something like 2 1/2 lb dumb bells and like 50 reps for each exercise? is that about right?


no, not exactly....IMO girls should work out like guys...they just aren't as strong, and are usually less experienced...how much weight she uses depends on her...get her started light...if form is cool and she's not shaking and stuff...talk to her....if she can control her breathing enough to carry conversation mid set and can pump out 15+ reps still shy of failure, then bump it up a little bit until it becomes a challenge...If she is pretty new to lifting then keep her at challenging 12-15 rep sets...

muscle tone is a sign of low bodyfat percentages....if she jiggles...then she needs to diet and do cardio to get the results she probably wants...the weights will be essential to building/maintaining lean body mass.

[bill_rizer]

Hey what is the best excerise to get more growth in biceps?

Is it more difficult the excerise the better? Ive done Bicep curls incline which I found hard.

Do different muscle groups grow faster, the instructor in the gym told me something like that.

Ive been traininng for about 5 months now while my chest has grown pretty rapidly my biceps and forearms have been kind of slow.

I mean they have grown but not as much as I think they could, really my arms is one of the reason I startd trainning, LOL i hate them far to skinny, I hate it when summer comes, because I dont feel like I can show my arms so wear stuff that covers them up .

I know If i do the right workouts I dont have to train my forearms directly, but biceps is different I think, Im looking for a way to improve my gains in that area, I already know about eating and stuff, I think its my actual workous.

at the mo when working biceps im doing Biceps curls ez barbell, on that same day im working my back doing weighted pull ups and bent over rows

any tips would be great, lol I want bigger arms.

[Soldier Zero]

Hey Magnus, difference between regular (flat) DB flies and 30 degree inclined?

I usually just do flat.

[Draeger]

Hey guys, some basic info about me and my training regimen:

Monday/Thursday:

Biceps
Dumbbell curls, 3x10 (each arm)
Cable curls, 3x10

Triceps
Cable pushdown, 3x10
Dumbbell Triceps extension, 3x10

Chest
Barbell Bench Press, 3x10
Dumbbell Incline Bench Press, 3x10
Cable Standing Fly, 3x10 (I occasionally do this if I am not too fatigued)

I walk five minutes after I excerise a muscle group, and also do this before and after the weight training session. I also try to do ten to fifteen minutes on a treadmill after all of that.

Tuesday/Friday:

Trapezius
Barbell Shrug, 3x10

General Back
Cable Seated Row, 3x10

Latissimus Dorsi and Teres Major
Cable Front Pulldown, 3x10

I also take five minute walks after I finish excerising a muscle, and take five minute walks before and after the whole weight training session.

Seeing how I do less weight training excerises on Tuesday/Friday, I try to do ten to fifteen minutes on a treadmill and ten to fifteen minutes on a excerise bike.

Compared to my Monday/Thursday weight training session, I do considerably less, but I do not know what other back excerises I can and/or should do. Can you guys recommend anything?

I am currently five feet four inches tall at two hundred and twenty five pounds and trying to go down to at least two hundred pounds. I am trying to become a bit buffer obviously all the while I am trying to lose weight. I have a beer belly that I am trying to get rid of along with a fat ass from eating too much junk food. The deadline I set for myself is the end of August.

Is this excerise regimen enough to reach my goals?

[MagnusMadness]

Is this excerise regimen enough to reach my goals?


No.

Where are your legs?? You have to work out your legs. Period. You are also doing as much work for tri's and bi's as you are for back...if not more when you take into consideration the ancillary work they recieve when working other bodyparts...You aren't doing anything for your lower back either...also no vertical pressing movements to be seen in there either.

If I were you, I would do full body routine circuits 2-3 times a week...(I know I say that alot, but hell they are great) Do cardio seperately from lifting and on days you don't lift...You might try push/pull splits or upper/lower splits if you want to lift weights 4 days a week, like you are now.

Bottom line is though, you can keep doing what you are doing and still lose weight, and maybe even build a little muscle in the process, but you could do better with a good program/diet/cardio schedule. Just my opinion...


Hey Magnus, difference between regular (flat) DB flies and 30 degree inclined?

I usually just do flat.

Yes there is a difference. Both are good, but I feel that incline work the shoulders a little more and the chest a little less....decline flyes providing the most stimulation to the chest (I'm basing this assumption off of EMG studies)

Maybe just switch it up every once in a while...like doin pull ups instead of lat pulldowns. Maybe that's a bad example but whatever, you get my drift...keep it up!~!!


Hey what is the best excerise to get more growth in biceps?

Is it more difficult the excerise the better? Ive done Bicep curls incline which I found hard.

Do different muscle groups grow faster, the instructor in the gym told me something like that.

Ive been traininng for about 5 months now while my chest has grown pretty rapidly my biceps and forearms have been kind of slow.

I mean they have grown but not as much as I think they could, really my arms is one of the reason I startd trainning, LOL i hate them far to skinny, I hate it when summer comes, because I dont feel like I can show my arms so wear stuff that covers them up .

I know If i do the right workouts I dont have to train my forearms directly, but biceps is different I think, Im looking for a way to improve my gains in that area, I already know about eating and stuff, I think its my actual workous.

at the mo when working biceps im doing Biceps curls ez barbell, on that same day im working my back doing weighted pull ups and bent over rows

any tips would be great, lol I want bigger arms.

I don't have any tips for getting bigger arms fast....but I will say that you should focus more on the heavy compound back/pulling movements...adding isolation work @minimal to the end of the workout. I have never seen someone with wing-like lats, a shelf'd out chest.. and little arms. Your body will resist growing out of proportion, because that would make you biomechanically dysfunctional. Just try to get bigger in general and everything will come together.

Oh and triceps are the bigger muscle on the arm, so having them bigger will give your arms a bigger appearance....biceps are relatively small muscles.

About some muscles growing faster than others.....that is up to genetics....but don't be fooled by actual size though....look at growth in percentages as opposed to actual inches per se....If you are growing proportionately, then you should put around 1.5 to 2 inches on your quads for every inch you put on your arms...feel me?? So you are putting more size on bigger muscles of course...but everything should be growing at the same rate. Maybe that's what he meant

If you want to....find my post on perfect 10 training to bring up lagging body parts and think about trying it...if you are going to do it for biceps...then definitely keep isolation work to a minimum...cuz you would easily be overtraining by adding in the extra bicep only sessions up to 14 times a week...

[ssjbrydon]

what is the major diff between a 4 day split and a 3 day split. im currently putting together a workout but i dont know which to choose. i cant workout on the weekends so i basically just have the week to do my workouts.

also whats a good way to split the exercises? should i split them between push and pull exercises or should i do it by muscle groups each session(bi/back, chest/tri..etc)? i know what exercises i want to do but i dont know how to organize them in a consistent workout.

input appreciated

[Draeger]

MagnusMadness
I am new to weight training so some of the jargon you use is Greek to me.

full body routine circuits
push/pull splits or upper/lower splits

I plan to add Barbell Deadlifts, Lever Back Extensions, and Barbell Standing Leg Calf Raises to my Tuesday/Friday sessions on your recommendation. Sounds good to you?

[MagnusMadness]

what is the major diff between a 4 day split and a 3 day split. im currently putting together a workout but i dont know which to choose. i cant workout on the weekends so i basically just have the week to do my workouts.

also whats a good way to split the exercises? should i split them between push and pull exercises or should i do it by muscle groups each session(bi/back, chest/tri..etc)? i know what exercises i want to do but i dont know how to organize them in a consistent workout.

input appreciated

The only difference between a 3 day and a 4 day split is that with a 4 day split you are working out one more day.

There are too many training protocols that could be changed or adapted to either 2,3, or 4 days that I don't know where to start. Hell I could take a body part split and do that a hundred different ways between 3 or 4 day workouts...Just know that your workouts should revolve around heavy compound lifts, first and foremost....then add in isolation work as needed..(You can almost get away without it) Post up when you get a better idea of which direction to take this....(how many days a week, what type of training split, etc)

[MagnusMadness]

MagnusMadness
I am new to weight training so some of the jargon you use is Greek to me.

full body routine circuits
push/pull splits or upper/lower splits

I plan to add Barbell Deadlifts, Lever Back Extensions, and Barbell Standing Leg Calf Raises to my Tuesday/Friday sessions on your recommendation. Sounds good to you?

Cut out the lever back extensions...stick to deadlifts.....ur starting to get the picture...but still I see no squats and not enough upper back work...

Do you work out at a gym??

You could try the program I wrote for shu a few pages back...Or I may write up a newb friendly upperbody/lowerbody split.

[VRViperII]

hey I'm new to weightlifting so I don't exactly know all the terms. Biceps refer to the upper part of our arms right? How do you work out the under part of it, as in the area between your armpit and your elbow?

I've been weight lifting and I can see the top part of my biceps growing but not the part under.

[Draeger]

I work out at a gym MM.

Please write out a newb friendly guide please.

[bill_rizer]

hey I'm new to weightlifting so I don't exactly know all the terms. Biceps refer to the upper part of our arms right? How do you work out the under part of it, as in the area between your armpit and your elbow?

I've been weight lifting and I can see the top part of my biceps growing but not the part under.

thats your triceps, you can do bench dips or tricep pushdowns using a cable.

thanks for the pointers magnus.

[Draeger]

By the way, I will probably start doing Dumbbell Bent-over Rows to my Tuesday/Friday regimen.

Thanks for everything MM.

[VRViperII]

thats your triceps, you can do bench dips or tricep pushdowns using a cable.

thanks for the pointers magnus.

thanks

for the tricep pushdowns, will it still work if I use dumbells instead? Like hold them horizontally then moving them up and down.

[ssjbrydon]

i do 20 mins of cardio on workout days. i wanna add some power clean in but my gym is kinda short on room where the barbells are kept and im kinda afraid to drop the bb on a bench or something. im purely training for strength and not so much trying to get a huge bodybuilders type body.

monday
-one arm db rows
-seated cable rows
-upright bb rows
-db curls
-lat pull downs
-bb shrugs
-chinups
-wrist rollers

weds
-squats
-deadlifts
-leg curls
-leg extensions
-leg press
-lunges db
-hypers
-crunches

friday
-bench press
-incline bench press
-military press
-seated db press
-Bent-Arm db Pullovers
-db flyes
-pullups
-dips

[Soldier Zero]

i do 20 mins of cardio on workout days. i wanna add some power clean in but my gym is kinda short on room where the barbells are kept and im kinda afraid to drop the bb on a bench or something. im purely training for strength and not so much trying to get a huge bodybuilders type body.

monday
-one arm db rows
-seated cable rows
-upright bb rows
-db curls
-lat pull downs
-bb shrugs
-chinups
-wrist rollers

weds
-squats
-deadlifts
-leg curls
-leg extensions
-leg press
-lunges db
-hypers
-crunches

friday
-bench press
-incline bench press
-military press
-seated db press
-Bent-Arm db Pullovers
-db flyes
-pullups
-dips

I'd cut out some of those exercises that work the same muscle groups, for example leg extensions and squats. IMO, the squats are enough for your quads.


Thanks for the info on the flies Magnus. :tup:

[MagnusMadness]

Guys....about ur routines and helping you tweak them....(I got your pm too) I definitely want to help but be patient...I always take my time writing programs and for a strength training program I want to do some homework first (I don't know nearly as much as I'd like to...but this kinda stuff gives me an excuse to go find new information)

I'm just really busy with two jobs right now, so something as involved as writing a solid program (I'm not putting my name on any bullshit) will take a minute at this time....just be patient guys and keep an eye on this thread or your PM box...

I can go ahead and tell you that if you are training for pure strength that all that isolation work is either going to go or take a back seat to ur bigger compound lifts....you will also be doing alot of push presses and a variety of squats and deadlifts...

[TheIlluminati]

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Magnus, Romie, and everyone else, for their invaluable advice-- free advice of this depth is very, very hard to find.

Everyone in this thread is supplying their advice for free-- so we all should remember that it's not anyone's job to help anyone else out, and we should all appreciate it.

[bill_rizer]

thanks

for the tricep pushdowns, will it still work if I use dumbells instead? Like hold them horizontally then moving them up and down.

Not really because you would be using force to bring the weight back up, meaning your biceps would be getting worked also.

I dunno what your set up is but if you dont have cable machine best do bench dips all you need is two chairs for example, when it gets easy doing thoughs place weights on your lap, trust me it will work your triceps more.

[Remy Martin]

illuminati

i like motion city soundtrack imo commit this to memory > i am the movie


sorry kinda random

now go hit the gym!!!!

[TheIlluminati]

Remy: Haha, I think I'd give it to Commit This To Memory too, if only by a little bit. Funny thing is, they're like the only band oI like when I look at "related bands".

And I'm heading in about 2 hours.

Going from low rep (generally, 5x5), ~2min rest bodypart splits to ~30sec, ~10x4 every other day fullbody has been intense.

[Tanion]

This thread is pretty amazing and very informative but I don't find too much advice on how to combine cardiovascular and weight training together. Now some history from me, I used to be 230 pounds with almost 44% Body fat. But in the course of 2 years I managed to go through a life-change and now I am down to 180 pounds. This was mostly through eating healthier and quitting my stressful job as a head manager at a video rental store [closing at 3am and eating junk late at night is bad].

Anywho, what I mostly did to lose that weight was running. Although I don't claim to be some uber runner or anything. If I go all out I can do a mile in 6 minutes and 36 seconds and a 2 miles in 15 minutes (Yeah the second mile is the hardest for me). As of the last couple of months my weight/BMI has mostly stayed the same at 180 / 26%, so I want to try to get weight training into my regular exercise. What I normally do is run for 35 mins x5 days to an hour depending on what my work schedule is and if I got shit to do. As of late I have been doing 50 minute runs everyday since I quit my job.

I have joined the gym and I am doing some of the rowing machines which is pretty fun but I mostly like the ski machines since it's easy on my knees. Now my question is this... if I lay off the cardio can I still lose weight if I do weight training? I don't want lay off the cardio if it's going to hurt me in the end. I want to in the end try to do the mile in 6 minutes.

Oh yeah one more thing, I bought a new machine that tells your BMI... my question is does BMI change quickly? I would weigh myself in the morning and it was say 31% then go down 25-27% later on the day. Then the next morning it's back in the 30s? Last accurate BMI testing I had was from a doctor 2 months ago and it was 26%... so I'm not sure what's with the crazy changes.

Thanks for the help.

[Soldier Zero]

I have joined the gym and I am doing some of the rowing machines which is pretty fun but I mostly like the ski machines since it's easy on my knees. Now my question is this... if I lay off the cardio can I still lose weight if I do weight training? I don't want lay off the cardio if it's going to hurt me in the end. I want to in the end try to do the mile in 6 minutes.

Really good dieting helps which I don't really expect to start doing. I think Juice Monkey in this thread did that to lower BF percentage without doing much cardio.

[MagnusMadness]

This thread is pretty amazing and very informative but I don't find too much advice on how to combine cardiovascular and weight training together.
Thanks for the help.


Heavy compound lifts with short resting intervals= hell on the cardiovascular system...

Example...Which will take more out of a person....20 rep squats?? Or some dumbell curls??? I wonder....

Also try supersetting large muscle groups....

Example

I work upper body on one day by itself...If I was to superset my benching with bent rows....How taxing do you think each set would be??

Also, something I do with clients, if my goal is to get their heart rate up and keep it there, is run sprints mid workout...I might have them run through squats, pull ups, then incline press...then run to the eliptical and sprint for 30 seconds to a minute...as fast as they can...if it's not fast enough I help them. It's brutal.


I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Magnus, Romie, and everyone else, for their invaluable advice-- free advice of this depth is very, very hard to find.

Everyone in this thread is supplying their advice for free-- so we all should remember that it's not anyone's job to help anyone else out, and we should all appreciate it.

Thank me with rep points....I don't like being scrub tacular with all this kick ass advice...I should totally be moving up the chain.







And everyone here...whether beginner or super elite....should go buy the book "the new rules of lifting" by lou schuler and alwyn cosgrove.

You will read about shit I have been saying for a while now, and it's all explained in very plain english....then my shit won't sound so "controversial".....

[HeaT]

Now my question is this... if I lay off the cardio can I still lose weight if I do weight training? I don't want lay off the cardio if it's going to hurt me in the end.



the answer is no you will not continue to lose weight by just weight training. the key to losing weight is cutting calories...mix weight training with your cardio and dieting and you should fall out of your slump of not losing weight...

im outi

Roberth

[merdoc]

I recently bought 20 pound dumbells, what are the techniques to use with these dumbells, and get some noticible and fast results.

[denjin]

I recently bought 20 pound dumbells, what are the techniques to use with these dumbells, and get some noticible and fast results.

I actually own a pretty sick amount of bells. You gotta remember that you want to be doing 3x10 (or whatever) every time. You can't get that kind of accuracy unless you own a wide range of bells.

I'm not saying join a gym.

I AM saying you probably gotta buy more bells.

[denjin]

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Magnus, Romie, and everyone else, for their invaluable advice-- free advice of this depth is very, very hard to find.

Everyone in this thread is supplying their advice for free-- so we all should remember that it's not anyone's job to help anyone else out, and we should all appreciate it.

Ditto the sentiment. Magnus holdin' down the fort.

Where's Romie and the guy with Samus' ass as an avatar?

[MagnusMadness]

the answer is no you will not continue to lose weight by just weight training. the key to losing weight is cutting calories...mix weight training with your cardio and dieting and you should fall out of your slump of not losing weight...

im outi

Roberth


You know, I've been reading this book lately...the one I just recommended to you all....and until now, I thought it impossible to build muscle mass while losing fat...but supposedly there are training methods that support this to a certain (slow) extent...the shorter resting intervals you and I were talking about earlier trigger a greater hormonal response in terms of testosterone and Growth Hormone...

Well If you did a little search you might find a study on the effect of growth hormone on fatty cells...it basically shuts em down....so they atrophy over time...(it's way more complicated than that, with words I had before now never heard of)

So, in closing.....body recompositions are possible....just require a certain amount of precision in terms of caloric intake, and again with your workouts and resting intervals. When size is of utmost concern, it seems short resting intervals...(30-60 seconds) are teh best. If your concern is moving the most weight then longer resting intervals may be necessary...

So

Short resting intervals = improved cardiovascular endurance. Improved muscular endurance. A higher threshold for lactic acid. More Optimal hormonal response.

[thedude.com]

I don't have any tips for getting bigger arms fast....but I will say that you should focus more on the heavy compound back/pulling movements...adding isolation work @minimal to the end of the workout. I have never seen someone with wing-like lats, a shelf'd out chest.. and little arms. Your body will resist growing out of proportion, because that would make you biomechanically dysfunctional. Just try to get bigger in general and everything will come together.

Oh and triceps are the bigger muscle on the arm, so having them bigger will give your arms a bigger appearance....biceps are relatively small muscles.

About some muscles growing faster than others.....that is up to genetics....but don't be fooled by actual size though....look at growth in percentages as opposed to actual inches per se....If you are growing proportionately, then you should put around 1.5 to 2 inches on your quads for every inch you put on your arms...feel me?? So you are putting more size on bigger muscles of course...but everything should be growing at the same rate. Maybe that's what he meant

If you want to....find my post on perfect 10 training to bring up lagging body parts and think about trying it...if you are going to do it for biceps...then definitely keep isolation work to a minimum...cuz you would easily be overtraining by adding in the extra bicep only sessions up to 14 times a week...


thanks ...

this is my training schedule .

monday :
shoulder (shoulder press and the shurgging while carrying weights )
lats + back ( 3 various back pulldown , and low row )

tuesday :
arms ( bicep curls , forearm curls and tricep pulldown . all cables )
chest ( incline and chest press , push ups )

wednesday :
rest .

thursday :
same as monday , butt additional abs training .every thursday i do crunches and leg lift .

friday :
same as tuesday

saturday :
rest ( refills )

sunday :
running ...( but i'm resting and refeed for now )

my legs are big , i hardly train it :p , my only aerobics(cardio too?) is every late night in the whole weekdays .
i do dancing for at least 30 minutes .

my goal is to shred :p . i think i need to train my glutes and hamstrings .
my legs are begining to become smaller . i randomly do squats and frog jump on alternative days during workout .

i have 2-3 months to get it all shredd .

and bad news , i can't do running now, serious infection on my leg pits , i'm on medication too and i can't take my supplements . :wasted:

[b1gazn]

Correct me if I am mistaken. But I need to work out the bottom of my pecs. Around my nipples I seem to have the most fat. Does decline bench workout the bottm of your pecs?

[NeREMIXED]

I'm totally newbish at this so I might sound retarded.

But what's the best way to work out? Some posts say on one of their days they do chest/back on one day. If I do chest that day I'll do triceps and delts the same day. Or if I do back that day I'll do biceps and forearms the same day. Is that fine or should I be doing like chest/back etc etc?

[Soldier Zero]

Correct me if I am mistaken. But I need to work out the bottom of my pecs. Around my nipples I seem to have the most fat. Does decline bench workout the bottm of your pecs?

It supposedly does, I did DB decline press but didn't feel much.


I'm totally newbish at this so I might sound retarded.

But what's the best way to work out? Some posts say on one of their days they do chest/back on one day. If I do chest that day I'll do triceps and delts the same day. Or if I do back that day I'll do biceps and forearms the same day. Is that fine or should I be doing like chest/back etc etc?

Go back a page or so and you'll see a short discussion about that.



Now a question of my own, should I do lunges for my calves or something else?

[TheIlluminati]

Short resting intervals = improved cardiovascular endurance. Improved muscular endurance. A higher threshold for lactic acid. More Optimal hormonal response.
Magnus, I've been trying to get in fullbody workouts every other day... and it's been fun. Is this overtraining though?

[MagnusMadness]

Magnus, I've been trying to get in fullbody workouts every other day... and it's been fun. Is this overtraining though?


It all depends...if you are using the program I laid out for shu a few pages back, then you are using a pretty low volume, high frequency program....it's not too much...now if you are using my program....adding stuff to it...and doing a bunch of forced reps and training to failure on every set and you added a bunch of isolation work, then you could possibly be overtraining...

Do full body routines 3 times a week....say...mon/wed/fri...


But what's the best way to work out? Some posts say on one of their days they do chest/back on one day. If I do chest that day I'll do triceps and delts the same day. Or if I do back that day I'll do biceps and forearms the same day. Is that fine or should I be doing like chest/back etc etc?

It's hard to say what the "best" way to work out is....but if you chose to use a body part split then I definitely wouldn't pair two large muscle groups together on the same day...choose a large muscle to start with and finish with a little isolation work for the smaller muscles....chest/tri's...or chest/shoulders is fine...

[Pat the Great]

anyone know of any good weightlifting routines to complement general MMA/BJJ training? i've been lifting fairly regularly for the past year and a half or so but it's all just been different random shit my friends have taught me. good for looking a little bit better but i'm not sure how much it helps the rest of my game. any ideas?

[MagnusMadness]

anyone know of any good weightlifting routines to complement general MMA/BJJ training? i've been lifting fairly regularly for the past year and a half or so but it's all just been different random shit my friends have taught me. good for looking a little bit better but i'm not sure how much it helps the rest of my game. any ideas?


TEH O LIFTS

Nothing can possibly give you the gains in FUNCTIONAL raw strength, power, and explosiveness that the olympic lifts can give you. I can't really go into it too much....cuz you need somebody to show and teach you those lifts that really knows what they are doing. But that's what you should look into.

[ChainZ]

Hey guys today i bought whey protein gold standard (contatins lactase) and was wondering when it would be best to take them....i've heard of taking it in the morning, immediately after a workout and before bedtime...was wondering if anyone had better suggestion. I recently moved to a different shcool but don't work so i just go to school and working out/play racquetteball....so i work out mon-tues-thurs-friday...some body building program i found online...so i was wondering of better suggestions of when to take the whey protein....so if anyone can PM me, because i'm at school most of the day and have trouble reading these posts....so any help would be great...thanks

[ChainZ]

Oh and one more thing.....can u still take the whey protein on ur days off...like the weekends and shit?

[Soldier Zero]

Oh and one more thing.....can u still take the whey protein on ur days off...like the weekends and shit?

I'll post here and PM you.

On days I lift, I take one scoop an hour before I lift, one right after I finish my workout, then finally one before I go to bed.

On days off you can take it too, I only do one scoop on my off days and try to really get most protein from foods.

[Biggzy]

For lower pics: you can do decline bench, rib extensions, dip, etc.

For the guy who's not training his legs, you really need to. It's the most important muscle in my opinion, and that one that gets neglected the most. There's so many guys at my gym that have huge upper bodies, and these little chicken legs and I just laugh to myself cuz they look so ridiculous.

[Romie]

Ditto the sentiment. Magnus holdin' down the fort.

Where's Romie and the guy with Samus' ass as an avatar?

Working. A lot. I'm pretty much on call at the hotel, so all I do is sleep, exercise, work, and eat.

[Taito]

Anyone use diuretic supplements? If I should bother with using them, what brand or type of diuretic should I look for, and are there side effects to using them regularly/everyday?