Punishing w/ Super Art 3

[SynikaL]

Any chance you guys can help me out with coming up with a list of moves that can be punished by Shippu on block? I don't have time to go through 20+ characters to figure them out myself.

I also feel this'll make some good anti-character discussion.

My main comp is another Ken, so I'll start with what I know about him:

Ken:

-Crouching Roundhouse

-Crouching Foward

-Fireball

-Standing Fierce ( and m. punch, f. punch target combo)

-Shippu


It'd be greatly appreciated if someone could help me add to this list, or start a new one with a new character.

-CynicaL

[Jaime]

-Standing Fierce ( and m. punch, f. punch target combo)


You can't reverse the Strong>Fierce target combo into shippu. It's very safe b/c most players dash or do low roundhouse afterwards, but it's not 100%.

[SynikaL]

Are you 100% sure about that? I've seen it done in vids. Maybe some testing is in order on my part.

Do you have anything to add to the list with any character?


-Syn

[glass]

http://www.karathrow.com/ken.html

blocked advantage on a c.FK is -3. startup on shippuujinrai is 3. so i guess anything with a blocked/hit advantage of -3 or greater (in terms of magnitude)..?

blocked c.FP (-8)
connected c.FP (-6)
blocked FK (-6)
blocked RK (-4)

etc

also, it gives the blocked advantage on FP as -2; so i'm guessing it shouldn't be reversible with shippuujinrai.

edit: i meant blocked RK, not blocked c.RK.

[Drunken Master]

I don't think you can punish -3 moves with an attack that has 3 startup. You're left with 0, meaning they have recovered once your attacks is able to connect.. meaning it can be blocked.

I'm not saying that it doesn't work IRL, but the numbers say it shouldn't.

However, the AE book says Ken's shippu startup is 2 (someone correct me please if I'm wrong) so that would work.

But then there are inconsistencies between the two sources of data.. Maybe it depends which game you're playing?

c.RH is -13 on KT.com BTW.

*** Another thing to consider is reversals.. I don't know exactly how they work, but can't you come out of block-stun or hit-stun a frame or 2 EALRIER than normal, if you execute a reversal? If so, that could add frames to the opponent's recovery, and in the frame data equations.

[paulee]

The most useful reversals for Ken v. Ken are:

Blocked regular FB
cr.forward
cr.roundhouse from far distance (if close, just low forwardxxSAIII)
UOH

That is all.

[glass]

my bad.. i meant roundhouse.

"reversal" means that the move is executed on the first available frame; so if you block Ken's c.FK and reversal with SA3, the Ken that c.FKed you has exactly 3 frames (or 2; whichever is the proper SA3 startup) to block the SA3 (which he won't if it's a reversal). afaik, it doesn't cancel startup frames.

edit:
and yea.. i was wondering what the proper startup on SA3 is.. coz before i checked KT i thought it was 2, and yes.. the numbers add up funny..

[Drunken Master]

fuck me, i'm an idiot... i dunno why I thought c.RH.

I'm drunk a lot when I post here, give me some slack hey? :)

>like now! he-yuk! don't be like me kids, read before you write<

[glass]

lol.. i edited it. it was c.RK originally. but yea. u really shouldn't drink and post. that shit's not good for you.

[Jaime]

The most useful reversals for Ken v. Ken are:

UOH

That is all.

Can you reverse this no matter what time you block it?

[paulee]

Not tested, but I would think off of the top of my head that perfect max range UOH wouldn't not be reversal-able..

but it's very easy to judge the distance while you're playing.

..also, from what I recall, standing roundhouse cannot be reversaled unless your back is to the corner. in other words, don't do it.

gl hf

[SynikaL]

Glad this thread finally got some feed back. Damn these boards are dead.

Anyway, anyone know their Urien matcups?

All I can think of that I've been able to reverse on him is his c. Roundhouse. Can anyone help me here?


-Syn

[glass]

you should really check out http://www.karathrow.com. aside from spacing issues (eg Ken's roudhouse may be reversible, but no decent Ken player will be in range for that), a lot of it is in those tables.

edit: my bad.