does anyone else see something wrong with RCing?

[midnight barger]

now i know most of you are thinking that i'm just jealous of people that can RC, but i can do it, with that i just wanted to say, don't you people feel bad for it? exposing a glitch is like cheating. i feel dirty when i do them, because they're not fair, curious as to what your views are.

[chester27]

I don't want to be off the topic for this. I just wanna give an example in other games. Like for MVC2 the glitch there is all over the place you cannot take that out simply because in the game period.

For me this isnt cheating it became a challenge to everyone how to beat RC's and its easy to beat RC's it depends when is he/she gonna use it.

[kcxj]

It's not easy to beat RC's. Even against the players who use the RC all randomly. Has anybody here ever tried to fight against Iori's RC punch or Sakura's RC qcb+MK using Guile? Guile practically has to waste a meter on an alpha counter every single time he has such few easy counters to those moves. Midranged Sakura RC qcf+HP too. That move eats counter RC Sonic Boom right up, plus it recovers too quickly and Guile's roll is too long to easily punish with roll, jab, jab xx flash kick either. Either gotta take the chip damage, or again, alpha counter your way out.

I don't like roll cancels, but yeah as long as people are going to play cheap with them, I'm forced to do it right back. CvS2 is still the hands down the best SF game people play right now though, so whatever problems I might have against RCing, the rest of the gameplay and character variety make up for it. It's definately not as bad as some of that cheap unblockable shit in 3S, as well as the ridiculously high learning curve for the non-scrub/Chun-li/Ken characters.

[epsilon_]

Bah, 3s really isn't that hard. t's had at first, but now I play Dudley and I almost never feel cheated as far as matchups go (even vs chun haha...) Also RC Safe moves are cheaper than unblockables, because you have to use meter to gtotut of alot og them, or play a different groove. PLay 3s Kang, oh and I think my mom is sold on NEC, haha. Tickets=soon.

[kcxj]

I use Dudley. The timing for f+HK, link super feels really weird at first, but I feel I can easily master it with practice. d.HK times six on the other hand... that combo's driving me nuts. Are those all one frame windows on the sweep juggles or something? Dudley can literally kill scrub Makoto/Chun-li in two mix-ups (one without even using a super), but it makes me mad that I can't do the combo.

Yun has too many combos in too many situations to master without playing that character non-stop for at least a year. KO may be sick, looking all thugged out in his Ecko sweatshirt, but I sure as heck don't want to just be able to do his awesome shoulder x n combo and nothing else. 3S is too hard for me and CFJ isn't very fun, so in all honesty I'm more than happy to keep playing CvS2 no matter how many people find it stupid because of RC nonsense. Absolutely nothing wrong with the game other than RC Electricity doing WAAY too much damage/stun and Sakura CCing in your face with nothing you can do about it (can't block unless you were already blocking etc... should be able to counter DP at least if you ask me, but you can't).

[epsilon_]

I can teach you how to play Dudley, catch me on aim.

[HoneyBBQGrundle]

I hate RC. Electricity is simply not meant to beat dragon punches. It fucks up tempo and ranges too. But it's not so bad that I'll stop playing anytime soon. I'll just unleash nasty burger king farts on my opponents who RC.

[Jinjifra]

Umm, RC was in no way an inntentional glitch. The fact that you can cancel a roll into a special or super is intentional, but the transfering of properties (ie invicibility) is a serious glitch. There is the one sonichurricane vid where he does the same thing with OTG in an a groove combo, so the glitch is not being able to cancel the roll but the fact that the invicibility transfers with it.

[Ouroborus]

sure RCs arent intentional, but so is c. fierce being able to beat nearly every special.

u know whats wrong? guiles flash kick getting beat out by stupid shit and 100% air blockable.

[Rokiseph]

Bsically, an RC is a free Level 3 Super with Low damage. if you look at it this way, u suddenly realise.... wahtttttt

[Dyse]

RCing is broken in general. But it's something anybody can do as long as they're in a roll groove. Some characters have awesome RC moves such as Iori's Rekka some characters don't benefit at all from it (Sagat most notably) With the exception of Blanka most of the characters who do benefit from RCing needed it to make them compete with the Blankas and Sagats

[noodleman]

RC wasn't intentional per say...It's just a fact that you're allowed to kara cancel normal moves into special moves, and roll just has another invinicbilty "thread" that's attached to it. For one reason or another, the check to remove that invincibilty is too slow (explaining why RC's invincibility doesn't last as long as invincibility frames in a roll).

The non-removal part of the roll is the glitch that they failed to catch....yes...i'm a cs coding geek.

The thing that makes RC's different from lvl3 supers is that you can't air block lvl3 supers, but you can air block rc'ed ones (well, the ones that you normal can block, like projectiles and airborn moves).

Also, RC isn't completely broken..there are ways around it. You don't need to beat RC with RC (think JD/Parry, learning to block). There is the extra 2-3 frame start up of a roll that's tacted on any rc'ed moves. Those frames are pretty significant since that's how you throw them out of RCs...

To me, RC's is more of weeding tool than anything else. It weeds out bad players than can't figure out how to react against RC's. Better players learn to work around it, by either zoning and evading, or other groove specify counters like JD, airblock, parry. I have yet to see a match there someone wins by RC'in one move over and over again.

[Maj]

You can airblock RC'd super moves? When was that discovered and by whom??

I have yet to see a match there someone wins by RC'in one move over and over again.
Tokido vs Choi two Evolutions in a row. Not that i'm against RC's because RC's double the tournament-playable cast, but watching my hero Choi get mopped up was pretty depressing.

[popoblo]

Tokido vs Choi two Evolutions in a row. Not that i'm against RC's because RC's double the tournament-playable cast, but watching my hero Choi get mopped up was pretty depressing.

tokido came to evolution only in 2k2 (B6), so it was only once IIRC. and that was relatively early in cvs2's life, so tokido busting out RC honda was a TOTAL surprise. now there aren't as many tricks for people to hide up their sleeves simply based on how much people know about cvs2, plus people know how to counter certain situations.

[noodleman]

You can airblock RC'd super moves? When was that discovered and by whom??


My bad, i mean RC'd normal moves vs Lvl3 supers. I wanted to say that you can airblock RC'd moves like normal moves, where as you can never airblock supers.

I was referring to...


Bsically, an RC is a free Level 3 Super with Low damage. if you look at it this way, u suddenly realise.... wahtttttt



Tokido vs Choi two Evolutions in a row. Not that i'm against RC's because RC's double the tournament-playable cast, but watching my hero Choi get mopped up was pretty depressing.

I haven't seen those matches...from popoblo it sounds like it was quite some time ago. Nowadays you still only rc a couple of moves, but it's not like someone's winning by spamming rc balls or rc hurricane kicks all day..it's about using it in the right situation now.

[Maj]

Guess i remember wrong. It was probably because there was a big SHGL tournament right before Evo that had a top 4 match between Tokido and Choi that was exactly the same.

[cheese_master]

LOL@ Popoblo saying that was two years ago. I agree the general knowledge is alot higher, but ummm, look at Tokido RC Honda two years ago and Bas and Mago's Hondas now. They basically spam RCs one way or another, and fact is, its hard as fuck to stop no matter how good you are. Even in counter character situations, Honda still can come out on top. Vega and Hibiki are Honda's best counters, and I see plenty of matches where they lose to him. Look at Tokido vs Mago on SBO2. So yea, RC do make chars (like Blanka and Honda) rather brainless. You know they are going to RC, and its still hard as fuck to stop. And don't say "I can punish any whiffed RC Electricity.... blah blah blah." Even the best players in the world have trouble reacting to Blanka's electricity when he mixes up the amount he mashes. There are other abusable RCs in the game. But Blanka and Honda just do so much damage, and the situations to counter these RCs as difficult to setup. Plus the counter isn't always something damaging enough to deter them from doing RCs that lead to more damage and momentum of the match.

[popoblo]

yea, tokido only came to evo in 2k2, and he never got the chance to defend his crown in 2k3 when it was daigo vs ino (and ino won). too bad, cuz tokido's N-groove is still beastly.

cheese_master

when tokido picked N-honda in the final 8, people couldn't bust out their DC's and realize that vega and hibiki can retaliate a blocked headbutt. and tokido's honda would pretty much do headbutt xN if it was in close range (with very few 360/720 setups), but mago and bas have to at least mixup their hands, 360's, and headbutts to be effective. but honda is a fucking tank irregardless, so pixies like vega and hibiki are going to have a rough time making up the damage differential. plus honda's disgustingly effective 50/50 mixup after a blocked standing jab wasn't known back then. THAT'S why tokido's N-vega lost, because he messed up a RC wall dive to escape the corner (and escape the 50/50 mixup), but he ate the level 2 instead. before that point, he was dominating the matchup.

peace

[cheese_master]

i'm nof gonna argue that. I was just simply stating that, Honda whether RCs are known about or not can spam them, and with alot less effort than actually having to learn how to play other chars and still win. I'm not saying Honda is unbeatable (although he is damn close)... I am simply saying, he is a very good example of the bad that came from RCs... IMO. The good was a more diverse character selection.

[skisonic]

when tokido picked N-honda in the final 8, people couldn't bust out their DC's and realize that vega and hibiki can retaliate a blocked headbutt.


you are on crack.
this was common knowledge im SURE, cuz EVERYONE from EC knew about this. and it wasn't a "complete surprise" either, people know that was going to happen, choi just didn't know how to fight it at the time.


but honda is a fucking tank irregardless, so pixies like vega and hibiki are going to have a rough time making up the damage differential.


That however is quite true.

[Rokiseph]

Yes you would be correct noodleman, i shall rephrase...Look at RC as if it's a Level 3 Super move with less damage, but 'airblockable' if it doesn't hit with it's character on the ground ( Hurricane Kick etc) or it's an RC Fireball.

Good for C-Groove then. Bully for APSNK.

[noodleman]

sorry to correct you again Rokiseph...but P and K sorta does not apply, since they can parry/jd their way out..but this applies to just about any lvl3 super/rc'd move..so its' sorta unfair :P

and RC honda doesn't run things anymore...since if they try to spam RC headbutts, you can jump back to punish.

It's true that RC changed the game alot, making people learn to be more careful about when they should jump, how to get out of certain situations, etc, but i think it's made everyone a better player for it.

[Maj]

Bas says Honda beats Sakura.

[Rokiseph]

P and K applies cos the can JD and Parry Supers too...we are looking for similarities between RC and Level 3s remember :D

[Rokiseph]

It didn't make me a better player for it, it made me attack less. Players who RC Rcabusable moves can afford to be a bit more reckless with it, but I have to be more careful, thus sacrificing my options. It doesn't really make me better, it makes me paranoid when the next player comes and he doesn't RC but I still get that phobia of 'invincible move'. Sure I can 'test him out' and see if he RCs, but that wastes an initial amount of time i had to play a proper match.

[epsilon_]

RC Honda DOES run things, just not 2 years ago RC Honda. RC Slaps, RC Grab Mixup, and RC Headbutts are HELLA hard to get around unless you use like Hibiki or something.

[wepeel]

I say Sakura beats Honda.

[popoblo]

I say Sakura beats Honda.

i say you have no idea what you're talking about. what will sakura honestly do? cross him up? honda presses standing fierce and slaps her out of the sky on her way up. poke with standing rh? yay, you got hit with a RC headbutt/hands. RC'ing back with fireball and hurricane kicks will make you lose also. and sakura's shitty vitality/stun doesn't help either against tank honda.

christian (skisonic)- i am on crack, it's called cvs2. someday i'll get off of it, not very soon though=)

[vasAZNion13]

does anyone else counter honda, other than hibiki and vega(who, as popoblo has said, have a hard time dishing out the damage)?

[epsilon_]

K and P grooves give Honda a bit more of a hard time, even though he still has rc grab to work with.

[wepeel]

i say you have no idea what you're talking about. what will sakura honestly do? cross him up? honda presses standing fierce and slaps her out of the sky on her way up. poke with standing rh? yay, you got hit with a RC headbutt/hands. RC'ing back with fireball and hurricane kicks will make you lose also. and sakura's shitty vitality/stun doesn't help either against tank honda.

christian (skisonic)- i am on crack, it's called cvs2. someday i'll get off of it, not very soon though=)

what can honda do? he tries to RC headbutt, sakura jumps back with j. RH. If honda gets predictable with RC hands, sakura can roll through or just wait and punish with one of her many RCs. honda can't jump at her, but i guess he doesn't need to jump against anybody. sakura is great with crossups, but she doesn't NEED them the way other characters do.

so both of them can basically do...nothing? who bulids meter faster? Sakura, but maybe that's arguable. Who can abuse meter more? Sakura. In terms of a very boring game (i.e., this weird theory fighter that i wasn't really trying to underscore in the first place), Sakura would be able to win by chipping.

The reason I posted that comment...was cuz Majestros posted what Bas's opinion was. I just posted mine. Interesting to see the replies, that's for sure...it's just opinions...

[kcxj]

You can't roll through RC hands. Hope Honda misjudges his distance (or is an RC whore), whiffs the RC hands, then Sakura far s.HK/sweep in his recovery is more like it. I didn't know jump back HK was an all purpose reaction counter to headbutt as well. What if somebody good is playing Honda and doesn't headbutt until you try and attack him (the way Honda should be using the headbutt) instead?

Sakura beats Honda the way Chun-li beats Honda. As in they both don't. They get counter hit to the gut when they try any kind of crouching short/crouching jab rushdown pattern. I don't mean OMG!!! Ryu Rushdown!!, run forward and press whatever buttons you want in N-groove by the way either. I mean just something like crouching jab, walk forward crouching jab again, look for counter hit to link far s.MP xx death. Even a tactic that's generally safe and effective like that, Honda escapes by putting his fat butt into the air with those invincible charge moves of his.

If any Sakura beats Honda, it's C-Sakura, since chicken blocking gives her something to reliably punish headbutts on reaction with. The best A-Sak can do is CC, anti-air custom (which does poor damage) on reaction when Honda headbutts.

You tell me how to attack Honda with Sakura (and not get dizzied by eating a million pork chop attacks... which do as much damage as a Sagat fierce EACH), and then I'll gladly rethink your opinion.

Also, no disrespect intended by the way (and also sorry to all the fanboys who were asking for this bum's autograph), but BAS sucks for deciding to Mago that shit with the Honda cheese in the first place. :rofl:

[halcyonryu]

Guile beats Honda. Thats who I use to stop his foolishness anyway.

[epsilon_]

Haha maybe I'll pick up Honda. That character is complete bullshit anyway.

[CrotchMonkey]

you know everytime i read stuff like this, it makes me wonder why i play this game. it makes me feel like this game is complete shit everytime i read this stuff.

then when i play it i get addicted. anyone else feel this way?

[chester27]

(Raise his hand)

[SupMalek]

That's the only reason that makes me glad not to be playing at the arcades. RCs suck!
They also have a habit of making a lot of the matches boring to watch. I watch a fair few of the videos posted up. A few people go nuts about how good some of the Japanese matches are. Personally I think the are boring.I'm not denying that these players are amazing, they are. How much variety do you really get to see in a A-Honda Vs A-Sakura match? Compare these matches to say N-groove shotos with thier mad pace and reaction combos. No doubt that someone is gonna say that hardcore CvS2 isn't about flash such as pulling off uber combos but all the same RCs ruin a lot of videos in my opinion. RCs definatly get a :tdown: from me. :lame:

[noodleman]

jump back dive kick own's honda rc headbutts for free. let me clarify before i get any flames. If someone does a headbutt to get close to you (ie, fp headbutt from mid/full screen), you can just jump back and hit him out of it.

as for rc hands, if someone wanted to do point black rc hands to link cr.fp, you should be able to roll through it. This is assuming you're knocked down. Much like countering hop super with blanka, you need to hit honda out of his dash before he lands to rc hands.

You'll just have to turtle against honda. The real brokeness is RC Blanka in a-groove. From the jap vids, they run shit with rc electricity tricks. the fact that they can RC electricity by whiffing a cr.lk is crazy.

[Buktooth]

Out of all you people complaining about how broken RC Honda is... how many of you have actually PLAYED against one? Not Honda 2002 that just did RC headbutts all day, but one that does RC Hands pressure and RC grab mix ups?

[vasAZNion13]

The real brokeness is RC Blanka in a-groove. From the jap vids, they run shit with rc electricity tricks. the fact that they can RC electricity by whiffing a cr.lk is crazy.

i'd like to correct this last statement.

they can whiff c.lk, walk very short distance, then RC elec. :lame:

[noodleman]

It didn't make me a better player for it, it made me attack less. Players who RC Rcabusable moves can afford to be a bit more reckless with it, but I have to be more careful, thus sacrificing my options. It doesn't really make me better, it makes me paranoid when the next player comes and he doesn't RC but I still get that phobia of 'invincible move'. Sure I can 'test him out' and see if he RCs, but that wastes an initial amount of time i had to play a proper match.

It makes you need to be more patient/careful. They can't be too reckless if RC moves, cause they'll be predictable and you can counter. Much like if you can RC, you can't just spam RC moves to win. There are ways around RC, you'll just have to find them. On the token that it's simlar to having free supers, you'll play careful when the guy as full meter. so you'll just need to extend that with RC moves. Ie, if you can't airblock/jd/parry, you don't randomly jump into blanka with charge and/or meter. Invincibility frames doesn't make all special moves free of weaknesses.

Maybe I misled people with the wording makes you a better player. It's more like it FORCES you to step up your game and be a better player.


they can whiff c.lk, walk very short distance, then RC elec. :lame:

are you sure it wasn't because the roll was animated, so they moved forward by the roll instead? cause if you delay the last punch by a split second after the roll, you will move forward a couple of pixels.

[kcxj]

Sakura dive kicks don't do a thing against Honda. To be honest, I pretty much feel you're wasting your energy even doing that move at all in this match. You'd be better off just jumping back and hoping to come down with a jump HK if that's the case. Like I've said already, no good Hondas EVER headbutt to try and get in. They're smart and wait for you to try and attack them instead, then they use the headbutt to counter you. If they wanted to close the gap, they roll instead. The Hondas I've fought against don't even whiff the hands for you to easily punish them as well. Pretty much the only time they ever do moves at all is when you try to attack them and you're in their range. Other than that it's spam the meter building MK's all day.

As for a serious question, what's the deal when Honda is waking up? Is it even worth trying to go on the offensive against him? I know you can block and punish when he wakes up with the d, u+LK move. I wanted to make Honda lose his headbutt charge once and rolled to the other side as he was getting up. The pig mashed out an RC 360 on me and grabbed me right out of low short.

I think the trick to beating him is to be persistent. He may reversal you out of a meaty attack once, but that doesn't mean he's going to do it every time. Make every knockdown you get count and keep challenging him every time.

Oh, Sagat jump up and down with HK is pretty good against Honda in general. Randomly rolling in every now and then works too. The most important thing is to always expect Honda to jump in with his high priority j.HK at anytime and always dp it. Can't be missing opportunities like that. Just give up if you do, as Honda almost never gives you any other openings as juicy as that.

Don't panic when Honda knocks you down in the corner. The RC grab may be cheap, but he's going to guess with d.LK/s.LP, pork chop sooner or later. That's good because if you blocked it, Honda's pushed himself out, and your goal now should be to make him blocked on of your normals so you can work yourself out of the corner. If you feel the RC 360 is coming, screw it, just guess and go for the throw. Really not much you can do in a 50/50 guessing situation other than just take a 50/50 guess yourself. Don't try to jump out that's all I know (since that's what Honda wants you to go for so he can chop you.).

[vasAZNion13]

are you sure it wasn't because the roll was animated, so they moved forward by the roll instead? cause if you delay the last punch by a split second after the roll, you will move forward a couple of pixels.

hmm, i didn't think about that. i haven't really looked those blanka vids in much detail yet since i haven't found the time to practice that trick. if anyone can confirm if it's possible to walk a little before rc elec comes out. that'd be nice.

[wepeel]

You know, it also depends highly on the Hondas that we play. I was using Guile today and I was able to see RC Hands and roll past it to punish. This is with Guile's slow roll...i think this is the part where people would say "you're just playing unskilled Hondas" but the fact is, if at anytime Honda gets predictable with the RC Hands...it's not that dominating...

Come on man, the dive kicks are for meter. Like you said, a lot of Hondas wait for you to attack. Don't attack with the dive kick! Use it to build meter so that whenever he tries to get near you due to impatience or something, you can anti-air CC for "poor" damage. I get around 5k+ when doing it; "good" players can get 6k...Honda needs to guess right about 4-5 times in order to make up for this "poor" damage. Granted, the guessing game is in his favor, but Sakura should not be getting cornered...

I'm not sure if being persistent on Honda's wakeup will do much...by persistent, do you mean hoping he'll not do his d,u+kick move? Do the Hondas you play always use this or something...?

Another possible difference in the Hondas we play is style. I fight aggressive Hondas mostly. I used to play a passive Honda myself, but that was a long time ago...anyway, if they're being passive, then mix up jump-back dive kick and jump-back RH...add an air hurricane kick if you wanna risk it haha...sakura can use her meter in a more versatile manner than Honda...

[vasAZNion13]

You know, it also depends highly on the Hondas that we play. I was using Guile today and I was able to see RC Hands and roll past it to punish. This is with Guile's slow roll...i think this is the part where people would say "you're just playing unskilled Hondas" but the fact is, if at anytime Honda gets predictable with the RC Hands...it's not that dominating...

you're just playing unskilled hondas. i.e. MY HONDA.

EDIT:
noodle: you're right. i tested it out, it's probably the roll animation that i saw in the vids.

[archetype]

I used to hate RC's but now I just accept it as something that I will have to get used too. Its funny when people complain about players who use RC a lot. How many of you have played against people who don't RC at all and rape you? That shit to me is more frustrating, getting beat with 2 buttons and no combos :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: damn Bmore Chun....

Btw Kcxj do u RC funky kick, cuz i still can't get past that shit.

peace

Sav

[Rokiseph]

Well, against an RC player, the pressure is on me once the match starts. There are certain things people can do to shut you out more than if they didn't have RC, eg Ken RC Funky Kicking all the way VS your K Gief. The fact that i may have to use the best footsies or jump in JD to even attempt to 'try' to get in, and that may make me seem like I have to step up to become a better player,when all i'm doing is that I'm trying for my life just to get in within a smaller window when I had a...door...

Where i used to Trade with Funky kicks, now I whiff and get hit. Well, it used to be that if people had level 3s, i *should* be more careful , but the fact is i jump in anyway hoping they'd bust it out, then I can continue pressuring them i.e. it doesn't matter to me... but now, with 'free invincible moves' it's not level3s anymore, it's just any RCed moves that I have to contend with. once the match starts.

Logically, it doesn't make me a better player, it just limits my choices for rushdown. I already try to JD everything already anyway, so RC didn't make me improve my JD.

Hey noodleman, if RC made you a better player, for whatever reason you have, props to you, but I've never seen anyone become a better player because of facing RC, they just became more careful, less aggresive, more turtular. Well, a lot of people certainly became *better* players because of *using* RC thats for sure...suddenly within weeks, their gameplay improved because suddenly our moves didn't trade anymore...

[skisonic]

uh...dragon punch?

[kcxj]

Btw Kcxj do u RC funky kick, cuz i still can't get past that shit.
You can hit me back whenever I whiff that kick. I noticed, you love that Sagat d.MK xx super whenever I've played with you. Start doing far s.HP xx high tiger super as well. If I throw a RC fireball at the range where you can punish me if I had threw an RC kick, you can jump over or roll through that on reaction too.

Try far s.MK with Rolento to punish my whiff. Again, roll through if you see the fireball.

Outside of RC kick, Ken doesn't really have anything safe to keep Sagat or Rolento off him. Ken d.MP is countered too heavily by Sagat's crouching fierce, d.MK is punished by either Sagat or Rolento's d.MK, and none of Ken's roundhouses are safe against rolls or jumps. Seems like all he really has is that RC kick to keep people off him. Stay out of the range and always punish when you see it. Ken will stop playing all crazy like that quick. React to RC fireballs as well and don't get hit by a random super jump cross-up MK.

Bmore knows all the counter buttons to press when he sees other people pressing their buttons (RC attacks or not). No big deal losing to him. Don't ever let him jump at you at all, that's the most important thing. (he loves getting close to work that guard meter if you ever let him)

[GalzPanic]

I still hate RC and I think it would be a way better game without the RC spammage. I still like the game in general so I've just learned to live with it and use rc selectively mahself!

[Ghostmaker]

I understand how RC works, and I can do it myself, I just choose not to. For this reason I dont bitch about it too much...until last night.

I had fought people who did RC's every once in a while, and it didn't bother me. Punishing me for bad jump-ins is perfectly acceptable and I became better for it. However, the guy I played did not use a single normal with his first two characters (Honda and Ken on C groove). He sat there doing nothing by RC hands, RC headbutt, RC funky kick, RC swoosh kick (ken's overhead), and pretty much anything else those two can do that's worth RC'ing.

I wouldnt have felt so bad if he was truly better than me, but he sure as hell wasnt. His ratio 2 was Dhalsim, who as far as I know has no worthwhile RC's. I absolutely destroyed his Dhalsim with a ratio 1 character (Iori). I took only 3 hits from him that entire match, and half of the damage was from throwing. The bastard couldnt win without RC's.

What I hate about RC's is that it devolves the game quite a bit. Against his Honda and Ken, my only real choices were to chicken block and sweep, with an occasional attempt to beat him out with a super. Trying to pull off even the most simple combos were pointless because he'd just RC.

It was my first time fighting that massive spamming of RC, so it's partially ignorance. After thinking, I have a much better idea of how to fight it. I still wont use RC's though, even if it means I have to lose every match I play.

[CrotchMonkey]

i thought i read somewhere that there was some kind of dying down of rcs because people said it builds bad habits or something.

thats wrong right?

[Ghostmaker]

If destroying people with a fat japanese guy who wears war paint, panties, and a skirt is a bad habit, then indeed it does build bad habits.

[Leezy]

*Just my opinion*

I feel like a better player because of RCs. I used to be K-only, not having any competitive chance in other grooves. It got to the point where I was good enough with K to compete against Choi, Buk, etc. Then Buk started to RC, making his Japanese N-Groove even better. Choi decides then to RC Ken's funky kick on my ass all day. On top of that, the whole A-Sak bullshit starts. So I played around with C,A,N. Frustrated by getting my ass beat no matter what I did, I learned how to RC. It took a day to get it right, and about a week to get up to 70%. After a month, I'm pretty much a RC whore. After getting slapped by Ohayo a couple times, I went back to K. I learned how to play against A-Sak, RC Ken/Honda/Blanka/etc., and I got better with other grooves as well. Learning how to RC and play with other grooves helps you know how to play against them. I was against playing top tier teams before, but now they're fun to use. I learned Blanka/Sagat for fun, and it helps when I play against them now. The moral of my story: RC will give you the opportunity to improve. Either learn it, learn how to deal with it, or stop playing. There's nothing wrong with RCing, it's a part of the game now. You should be psyched to face a RC whore. Step up your game and find the holes in their game.

*The timeline above might be wrong, that's just how things happened to me*

[UCRJesse]

kcxj, stop bitching about honda so much and just beat his ass... seriously, if you're having that many problems vs. him just runaway and build meter as much as you can. stay outside of his rc hands range, jump around if he gets impatient. When you get knocked down, just know that all his mixups are 50/50 so you'll get away eventually.

[Gwai Lo ½]

i thought i read somewhere that there was some kind of dying down of rcs because people said it builds bad habits or something.

thats wrong right?

It builds horrible habbits unless you can RC 100% accuracy. Then again, if you're level of play is already really high, and then you use rc, its not building bad habbits... you should be able to contend with people without rc, before using rc against them.

[popoblo]

The moral of my story: RC will give you the opportunity to improve. Either learn it, learn how to deal with it, or stop playing. There's nothing wrong with RCing, it's a part of the game now. You should be psyched to face a RC whore. Step up your game and find the holes in their game.


PREACH. that's so true, that pretty much sums up the perfect response to people who bitch about RC'ing as being broken/cheap. well said.

peace

[UCRJesse]

oh oh... you know whats way more broken than rc? giving ricky's sakura standing rh.

[*InVeRs3*]

Bas says Honda beats Sakura.

Yes I think this is kind of obvious. RC headbut, goes through Rc anything, best Sakura can do bait an Rc to make him go to the corner.

[Leezy]

oh oh... you know whats way more broken than rc? giving ricky's sakura standing rh.

True dat...

[noodleman]

Hey noodleman, if RC made you a better player, for whatever reason you have, props to you, but I've never seen anyone become a better player because of facing RC, they just became more careful, less aggresive, more turtular. Well, a lot of people certainly became *better* players because of *using* RC thats for sure...suddenly within weeks, their gameplay improved because suddenly our moves didn't trade anymore...

i think it's made me a better player by seeing how to use RC against themselves. You can bait out rc stuff with some nice zoning, or out right hit them out of what they thought were invincible moves. You learn more about the moves ppl rc, and learn how to beat it.

For example, there's quite abit of recovery for blanka's electricity, so i can cr.fp with sagat everyone someone whiffs electricity at the wrong spot. Another example is where to stand to make sak's rc hurricane kick useless. Although i'm pretty sure no one with do those moves at random if they don't rc, but it's useful knowledge in eliminating the possible moves any can do when i'm in a certain position.

And being less agressive/turtling to me just means that you're not completely comfortable fighting against rc. You can still rush down against someone that rcs, you just have to know when your block strings have holes, so you can bait out rc moves again that way. But knowing where there are gaping holes in your block string is a universal thing that sticks with you when you're in a match. Usually ppl who RC are the turtlers themselves. They like to zone you and put you in positions where their rc moves become effective. What you as the opponent is to break that and be in a zone where their moves become ineffective.

Another example is playing against RC Blanka/Bison with K. Blanka. Before I get stuffed by RC Ball/Psycho Crusher everytime i tried to small jump. Now i pay attention to when someone has charge and when they don't, so i can jump in more safely.

All i'm trying to say is that RC makes you pay attention, and understand the game more so you can compete better. RC isn't the bottomless pit that you're trying to fill in. Alot of the knowledge you can learn from fighting RC is universal, thus making me a "better" player for it.

Man, i've blabed on for too long...sorry for the long posts guys!

[Gwai Lo ½]

i think it's made me a better player by seeing how to use RC against themselves. You can bait out rc stuff with some nice zoning, or out right hit them out of what they thought were invincible moves. You learn more about the moves ppl rc, and learn how to beat it.

For example, there's quite abit of recovery for blanka's electricity, so i can cr.fp with sagat everyone someone whiffs electricity at the wrong spot. Another example is where to stand to make sak's rc hurricane kick useless. Although i'm pretty sure no one with do those moves at random if they don't rc, but it's useful knowledge in eliminating the possible moves any can do when i'm in a certain position.

And being less agressive/turtling to me just means that you're not completely comfortable fighting against rc. You can still rush down against someone that rcs, you just have to know when your block strings have holes, so you can bait out rc moves again that way. But knowing where there are gaping holes in your block string is a universal thing that sticks with you when you're in a match. Usually ppl who RC are the turtlers themselves. They like to zone you and put you in positions where their rc moves become effective. What you as the opponent is to break that and be in a zone where their moves become ineffective.

Another example is playing against RC Blanka/Bison with K. Blanka. Before I get stuffed by RC Ball/Psycho Crusher everytime i tried to small jump. Now i pay attention to when someone has charge and when they don't, so i can jump in more safely.

All i'm trying to say is that RC makes you pay attention, and understand the game more so you can compete better. RC isn't the bottomless pit that you're trying to fill in. Alot of the knowledge you can learn from fighting RC is universal, thus making me a "better" player for it.

Man, i've blabed on for too long...sorry for the long posts guys!

Agreed. I only skimmed throgh this post, but what i read makes sense. Rcing in itself doesnt make you a better player, it gives you instant gratification which leads you to believe you have improved.. which is why some people (including me) say that it leads to bad habbits. But facing it as mentioned does in fact help your game over all if you can understand how to beat it you can apply that to other things too.

[kcxj]

For example, there's quite abit of recovery for blanka's electricity, so i can cr.fp with sagat everyone someone whiffs electricity at the wrong spot.
I'm trying to get into the habit of doing dp+HP everytime I successfully bait out a whiffed RC electricity from now on (most of the time on the opponent's wake-up etc...). If Blanka mashes the electricity as he gets up, your Sagat d.HP trades. If you try to punish a whiff with d.MK xx super as he whiffs and then mashes, you lose completely a lot of the time. Really annoying. By doing slight wait and then dp+HP, you blow through all that Blanka mashing with your invincibilty.

In that Honda thread where you complain about N-Honda not being able to do dash, RC hands, I don't think it's even that good. I watch for the opponent to specifically do that whenever I do fight against a dashing Honda and concentrate on punishing him. Whiff d.LK, RC hands is much better in my opinion.

Happy new year guys. All this name dropping going on is making me sick though. The forum ruiners quoting all the names of known players and purposing misspelling mine too... :rofl: I'm definately all set with this place now. I'll see you all in T5 (somebody battle me in Starcraft in the meantime as well).

[noodleman]

I'm trying to get into the habit of doing dp+HP everytime I successfully bait out a whiffed RC electricity from now on (most of the time on the opponent's wake-up etc...). If Blanka mashes the electricity as he gets up, your Sagat d.HP trades. If you try to punish a whiff with d.MK xx super as he whiffs and then mashes, you lose completely a lot of the time. Really annoying. By doing slight wait and then dp+HP, you blow through all that Blanka mashing with your invincibilty.


That seems to be a good idea, I give that a test next time. But most of the time i bait out the electricity, they're too far to reach with :dp: + :hp: (gotta love the new icons :P), so i just :d: + :hp: it, having just the fist hit blanka.


In that Honda thread where you complain about N-Honda not being able to do dash, RC hands, I don't think it's even that good. I watch for the opponent to specifically do that whenever I do fight against a dashing Honda and concentrate on punishing him. Whiff d.LK, RC hands is much better in my opinion.


Now complaining is abit of a strong word :P I was merely saying that since all the honda i've seen is in C/A (from jap matches), and they seem to utilize the dashes pretty well, so without it, it's hard to see how they can over so much space with rc hands. No doubt about the whiff :d: + :lk:, RC Hands >>>> dash, RC Hands , but it's hella harder to do! Maybe I just need more practice :P


Happy new year guys. All this name dropping going on is making me sick though. The forum ruiners quoting all the names of known players and purposing misspelling mine too... :rofl: I'm definately all set with this place now. I'll see you all in T5 (somebody battle me in Starcraft in the meantime as well).

Happy holidays to every one as well!