A random question about the cvs2 engine

[Shin Ace]

I've wired up 2 joysticks together, so that all controls are identical except for one thing. I flip the left/right between the 2 sticks. So by pressing left on one, I also get right on the other, and vice-versa. That way, by holding one direction, both characters walk away. Hold the other direction, and they walk towards.

Anywho, I was doing some tech throw reversal supers a while ago and noticed 2 things.

1) Both characters cannot superfreeze on the same frame, EVER! I had both 1p and 2p pick, say, zangief. I hold forward, double tap fierce stupidly fast(drumming is too random). First fierce is to start a throw, the second to tech. Then reversal FAB.

Here comes the other part.

2) The choice of which character gets the freeze first is random. Sometimes it'll be 1p, other times it's 2p.

Random note in a random thread: This also applies to plain throws. If I get both joysticks to start up a throw on the same frame, your guess is as good as mine as to who will throw who.

My problem is that there are 2 solutions, that I know of. The first is that cvs2 handles the inputs frame by frame, or millisecond by millisecond. When something occurs simultaneously that is not allowed, a random player is chosen and he goes first. The other option, is hardware related. The cvs2 engine may constantly sample the inputs, but it can only sample one controller at a time. The dreamcast, having a serial bus, would be prone to this. So in that case, whichever controller sampled did the super first gets to break the ice.

So....why doesn't cvs2 allow both players to superfreeze on the same frame? Even when both players obviously did the same thing at the same time.

[Maj]

What Capcom fighting game does?

[laugh]

What Capcom fighting game does?

Alpha1 allowed simultaneous super freezes. I think Alpha2 also allowed simultaneous super freezes, but I'm not sure. Alpha3 doesn't allow simulatenous freezes either.

In Alpha3, I did the same thing with the 2 controls and did the same super at the same time, but only 1p or 2p, can't remember which one, but only one of them got the first super freeze ALL THE TIME. The result is that second super will beat first super due to more invincible frames.

So, after going through these progression of super freeze priority crap, CAPCOM must've landed on the best solution. If the inputs are simultaneous, then it's random as to who gets the flash first. Same with grabs.

l8s

[Shin Ace]

I'm not really expecting an answer, as there's only about 2-3 people in the world that know for sure.

Even though both players can flash on seperate frames, I think they still end up starting the super on the same frame. So if 2 ken's do shinryuken's at the same time, they'll trade once invincibility runs out for both.

[Maj]

Alpha 1 let you do simultaneous super freezes? Anyone got a video or a screenshot? Anyway, my point was that the general rule in Capcom fighting games is that they just can't happen at the same time.

I think it would be more surprising if this was the first time the concept of "random" had been mentioned regarding the CvS2 engine, but it's not. If you look through Buktooth's faq, you'll see some explanations for how long dizzy will last, and there is a random modifier that varies every time. Also, Dan's uppercut randomly flashes white, giving him extra invincibility. I'm sure there are other examples, but the point is that they exist.

So here's an interesting test for you to try out. Do simultaneous supers in Versus Mode and save the match, then replay it to see if it's the same every time. The theory is that Replay Save files only contain inputs, so if it's truly random (and this hasn't been accounted for) then maybe it will be random in the replay too. Of course all sorts of stuff could go out of sync later on in the replay if it was random, but we'll discuss it after you run the test and let us know if there's anything interesting to discuss.

[Shin Ace]

So here's an interesting test for you to try out. Do simultaneous supers in Versus Mode and save the match, then replay it to see if it's the same every time. The theory is that Replay Save files only contain inputs, so if it's truly random (and this hasn't been accounted for) then maybe it will be random in the replay too. Of course all sorts of stuff could go out of sync later on in the replay if it was random, but we'll discuss it after you run the test and let us know if there's anything interesting to discuss.


I'll try it when I pickup my second stick from a friend.

[mike729079]

mvc2 has simutaneous super freezes, although it's a glitch.
for example, in one of commy's vids (i think it's number 11 vs justin wong), commy DHCs into hail and the exact same time as wong does a grounded hvb. the super freeze for both characters occur, but instead of showing both storm and cable's face, it shows two of storm's face. and storm appears on the wrong side.

[/random]

[Shin Ace]

Well, I finally tried it with just command grabs, and the save file plays the original, over and over. I'm thinking it is just hardware, and the game uses that to determine order. So it's a matter of who's controller was sampled first when simultaneous moves are performed.