(CVS2) Kim advanced starts and tactics.....

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

OK first of all this is gonna take awhile to write. all try to get it all done within a few days perhaps maybe sooner. depends on boredem ect....


Of course when viewing read with common sence ect and hopefully you have at least a common grasp of the shit im talking about as things would go faster and easier if i wasnt explaining detail and thing over and over blah blah.....



OK now over the course im gonna say moves so lemme just out what i mean right now. cuz i remember last thread i had to say the moves a few times.


hangetzan(qcb+k)
haki kyaku (d d+k)
kuu sajin (d u+p)
hein zan (d u+k)
kishou kyaku(in air qcf+k)
comet cruncher(b f+k)(lol..okies i dun say the real name i like this one better. =p)
hou ou kyaku (qcf,hcf+k)
hou'ou tenbuu kyaku (in air qcf,hcb+k)
hou'ou hetin kyaku (qcfX2+k)


dang i think thats all. at least hopefully.


yawn....ok anyway lets go over the moves like sorta....



d d+k ....
OK its the foot stomp. its stops all fireballs basicly from a ground level to slioghtly higher including low tiger from sagat or air fireballs from certain distances. You can also cancle it into the qcb,hcf+k after it hits. If you do it with hk you can go into the switch stance after words.




sigh..ok this is gonna come up sooner or later so all post it now. Kims infintie with the d d+hk is as follows.

after a level 2 cancle do....

sai -rec explains it like this
d d+hk(hold hk) d +lp, (let go hk) d+hk(hold hk) repeat

another way that i do is....
d d+hk(hold hk) d d+lp(let go hk) hold hk repeat.



dont ask me how to do this again!!!!!=p






qcb+k......
This move goes over low fireballs. You should really only use the lk or mk version. as hk version is pretty punishable with reversals. The only time i would use the hk version is if you are like i dunno how to explain really. like chaseing the opponent with the move. like if there really far away and maybe there trying to distance them selves.

sigh thats lame. dang all try to think of a better example. ahhh...its just like something you gotta know i guess.

The only other time i would suggest doing it off the top of my head is that after a switch stance lp you would do a hk version of the hangetzan as the lp has a feirce worth of stun on it so alot of times you may not hit with a mk version say.....




b f+k.....
the comet cruncher is fairly slow so its not to usefull alot. It does have trip gaurd on it however(think of old SF) so you can anti air with it. Though it may not come up to often a example would be say you rolled and well they jumped away from you well comet cruncher out of the roll and they should get hit when they land. I dunno but i wouldnt go into a match thinking you were gonna be anti airing with it however. Also another use is to purposly use it in a shity manner. lol Like doing it from a good half screen away. This is risky but hopefully the opponent was saying walking backwords and they get caught in the block animation since the move is coming then it hits them low since they were walking backwords. I belive IIRC the correct term would be proxcemity blocking. So everynow and then you may be able to pull this off. It also doesnt combo normally. It will combo from a counter hit mk or a lp from switch stance however. A slightly usefull move.


d u+k....
As with all anti airs remember use the short version for the ground attacks and the roundhouse version for the air attacks. Its basicly your anit air attack. but all go into it more in the anti air section.



d u +p....
another command anti air. Has deceptivly good recovery. but all go into this move more in the anti air section.



in air qcf+k....
I dunno if this move is good or bad. its like a mixed bag. At times you can be reversaled right after you hit just to easily. which is just retarted to be honest. You can tiger knee it blah blah.....

it does have some tricks however....

if you ever get the opponent in the corner sj striaght up then do the hishou kyaku while charging down. 2 things happen.

1. you cross them up basicly. This is hard to dp ect beacuse the hishou kyaku will hit the other guy from behind acctualy. Unless its a shinryuken ect in most cases the best they can hope to do is trade. Almost all anti airs go foward when they come out so they well just get hit from behind most the time. As a matter of fact sometimes say if you vs P groove if you do this the first hit will hit from the front then the second from behind. lol

2. Well since your gonna get ever hit you had more then enough time to charge so right when you land press up+k you will do the hein zan and basicly fuck them up most likely if they try to attack or throw you when you land. This is a very good alternative to doing a super when you land if you guessed they would attack.



OK now this can be done when its not in the corner of course but you dont get the cross up part to its full exstenet really.

I dunno the move is just really hard to judge. Cuz alot of times they just throw you when you land so its like ok. that fucking sucked. lol Or they try to reversal you with an attack and theres a good 50/50 chance at alot of times you cant do anything and you will be hit. If you are vs a throw character *cough* gief *cough* do not do this move close up. even if you are a fair range away you can be reversal SPD ect. You can not get away. lol



Of course to make you even more pissed off at this move there are times when you get out of the hishou kyaku before the other guy. lol ive had people tell me that qcf+K then land and d u+k was a true blocked combo as they let go of the controller. lol sigh.


the move i have come to terms at times is random. lol


Tiger kneeing the move as a poke is okkkkkaaaay. One advantage were you should use this is against small characters. As against small characters tiger kneeing the move is and just feels safer. A good way to judge is to see if they go under kims standing fierce. if they do well tiger knee the hishou kyaku should become a option in this match. As smaller characters give kim problems.


Ok one more strange thing. ya know how geif fucks the hishou kyaku up? well ok Tiger knee the hishou kyaku against a "fat" character isnt to bad as you should be able to tiger knee it from a fair distance away were you should be safe.

basicly tiger kneeing the hishou kyaku against any character that isnt smal or fat can be pretty risky.



I dunno theres more stuff about it but all get into it later.






qcb,hcf+k.....
Kims rush super. Level 2 has insane priorty. kim really has no need for level 3s. The jump from level 1 to level 2 is absurd. A very good move. you can anti air with it,random super yadda yadda. a really good move. Has a ton of fucking tricks as well with it. But more on that later.



in air qcf,hcb+k....
In certain ways this is the ultimate air move. Your not gonna beat it. lol basicly. The level 1 is very very good. Tiger knee the level 1 to stop pokes on the ground. Like ok lemme think how to explain kims level 1 rush super in most cases you should not use to stop pokes unless its a meaty attack or little attack you will most likely get beat. But the level 1 air super should beat just about every ground poke. Just think of it as any other counter move you would do when you see a poke like a shoryuken ect. Just do qcf,hcb ub+k when you expect a poke. and well fuck them up. level 1 is very good. did i say it was good? i did. anyways. ALso another thing is say they didnt attack at all well its ok cuz you just recover and your most likely gonna be ok. If you do a exstremly deep hou'ou tenbuu kyaku you should just land instead of bounce off when they block. Hopefully it does not come to this as if you do the super you should be expecting to hit. Oh yeah remember to like when you tiger knee it to punish pokes and stuff remember even if your vs sim of all people if you hit the air super you teleport right to were they are and start fuckin' em up. i dunno just sorta looks cool i think.



qcfX2+k....
This move is shitty alone. The level 3 is a safe anti air but at level 1 and 2 its pretty garbage. Its only usefull as a very early anti air. Basicly if you wanna hit with this you should combo into it. To bad. Capcom was sorta weird with this move it would look like it would be a usefull anti air but in most cases you should just do the hou ou kyaku as anti air if you have super. =/

it sets up the infinite however so thats good. Maybe its just me but i woulda rather had the KOF 99' version of the move. Had the best of both worlds if it hits well theres another kick were he slams you back to the ground and it looks cool. If you happend to trade well you can combo after it like the newer games.

i dunno the move is just sorta lame i think.

oh well.....









Dang i hope thats all the moves be back later......

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

SWITCH STANCE.....
OK kims switch stance it can be started from a standing HK or a f+hs(top down attack) or the haki kyaku( d d+hk). heres a quick run down of everything from it...



lp= a poke to the mid section. Can be cancled counts as a fierce worth of stun so a comet cruncher would connect after this. Combos from a counter hit stand hk and f+hs. So you could do a stand hk(hold) lp, qcb+k as a combo for example. Of course this is esential to the infinite.

lk= a kick low. Hits low. Has some pretty good recovery acctauly. Acctualy a wiff lk from the switch stance sets up a nice random super as a matter of fact. From certain distances its pretty good. I dun think you should really expect to hit with it though to much.

mp= a hop kick. You can control weather he goes back words or fowards. Its a good attack basicly. Goes over low attacks. You can also use it go over fireballs. One way to use this would be to wiff a d d+hk right in front of the opponent. Then do a mp. its sorta like shit. the other guy missed sweep him. then you do the hop kick. something to that exstent.

mk= a top down attack. Fairly fast. You do have the fram advantage after it so if you hit with it you can super if you have the timing. You should also be able to combo a ducking lk for example if this happend to hit on counter hit.

hp= a thrust kick. Fairly fast. Combos after a standing hk or f+hs on counter hit. A nice suprise attack. Fairly usefull in combos acctauly example being say you were doing the infintie but you werent anywere near the corner? well you could do a foot stomp then do the hp out of the switch stance for a pretty easy but a fair amount of damage combo. Causes knock down so thats cool.




Ok now you can also get tricky. As i said earlier(at least i think i did dun remember.lol) The infintie command has more uses then just being used for the infinite. So even if your in say N-groove or what have you, you can still use this little kara thing to your advanatage in some poke strings.



Examples say you do cross up hk, then do f+hk, haki kyaku with infinite command, mk, ducking hk.


basicly your doing high low high low.


to write it all out it would be like....


cross up hk, land f+hk, down down lp(let go hk) hold hk, mk, ducking hk.


see???


Not the best poke string but it may be a mix up that the opponent wasnt prepared for.




lets try again using the lps stun.....




standing hk, haki kyaku infinite command, lp, b f+k. Now if they block this you should be at a fairly safe distance to random super or if you charged while in the comet cruncher you could do hein zan when you get out.









Hopefully your getting what im saying. Of course i dun think poke strings with the infintie command are as usefull as real poke strings but there a nice mix up everynow and then.

Have fun with it and mix it up. Hopefully you are sorta getting what im trying to talk about here.


You can also use the infinite command to help you move foward while stopping some low attacks and low fireballs. This is pretty ubsurd of course and i wouldnt really suggest trying to get across the whole screen with it but maybe a couple to move foward while chargeing super isnt to bad.


It should just happen really fast. like boomboomboomboom.






The switch stance is a failry neat thing they gave kim and i would suggest using it everynow and then. If the game turns into total footies ground game this may be a big part of you being able to switch it up and stuff to help you pull out a win perhaps.








Ok all be back later with more.

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

ANTI AIR......




OK normals for anti air would inculde...



standing mk....
standing mk is a good anti air. the end.







.
.
.


ok ok im bored hold up.

anyway for low jumps espeicaly standing mk is your anti air of choice. The jumps and attacks that are more in front of you coming in on you ect the standing mk is gonna be good for. Its also a good anti air for P groove users K ect beacuse if you see that they parry well you can cancle into your hou ou kyaku super easily.



Ducking fierce.....
is good for attacks that are nearly in cross up range. Its a very good early anti air. As say you were expecting them to jump. So you would do this. For the attacks coming in on you however lows jumps ect make sure to use the standing mk.


SJ mk...
right when you get off the ground. Another anti air that is good when you expect the jump in super jump foward and hit mk. This should beat just about anything. lol. Espeicaly considering well in most cases the opponent would go for there air to air move ect when they are just trying to jump in on you. Its really good. Especialy considering say your vs P or K you need all these options so the opponent will never know when to Jd parry ect.


Dodge +p...
strange but in S groove dodge then press p. The second hit is a good fucking anti air. Its not all that realistic at times but the second hit is a good. Think of it as a standing mk but its a bit higher.







Speicals as anti air....



hein zan....
This probably isnt used as anti air as much as some of the others. Its good granted but well i dunno. its more of your roll move. lol =p Still good nothenless. Intresting things i suppose is remember that you have to parry or JD this move 3 times instead of 2 so you may catch someone off gaurd with this. use it when well obivosuly they are close to you. Its more of a counter to pokes ect then a anti air really. It can be used however as a counter to cross ups. But only to a certain exstent.



kuu sajin.....
This is your well.....yeah i guess this is probably your main command anti air. Its a pretty big move your gonna need in some certain match ups. Example blanka. Its really good to have this move at the ready. It has really good range. The prioirty is all in the tip of his foot so it does what its supposed to. This is also the command low jump anti air of choice. another reason why this is good against blanka. You see a low jump just hit d+p(assuming you have the charge ready). It has good range as i said. Also it has good recovery no less. It also sets up mad mind games when you hit, giving you plenty of time to cross up dash ect. The good recovery also helps you in being able to a do the hou'ou tenbuu kyaku afterwords if you hit with it at the right distances. The timing is tight but its possible. You could even CC after you hit with it if you chose to. A fairly versatile move. If the opponent is close though you should opted for the hein zan if your charged. Oh and never do anything but the hp version just to say.



comet cruncher....
it has trip gaurd. there for it is anti air. Nothing else really to say about it other then that. You were you see fit. Opponent zoneing you half screen away? You see them jump straight up do comet cruncher. something to that exstent.

again this is really just something that happens in rare cases but just to let you know.






SUPERs as anti air.....


Hou ou kyaku.....
your main super for anti air. You dont need anything besides the level 2. It should beat everything. level 1 is not good. But anything higher is fantasitc. Of course it can also be farily diffuclt to parry(assuming they even do) when you anti air with it.



hou'ou tenbuu kyaku.....
if you tiger knee it you can anti air with it. Sorta not to realistic really. But it can be done. A example would be if we were full screen i bait them to jump with haki kyakus they jump i tiger knee the super which would cause me to go backwords and well i hit there limb that they were trying to hit me with. Since your both air to air however your gonna need to do level 2 or higher in most cases. the hou'ou tenbuu kyaku is great against ground opponents but at level 1 air to air and at the postion you are in your gonna need something higher.

Alot like the comet cruncher in anti air cases. Probably dont expect to see this used to often.



Hou'ou hetin kyaku...
the move that should be a anti air...is well anything but the case. At levels 1 and 2 dont expect to do anything but trade. The only way to hit with it cleanly is to well as with the ducking fierce expect the jump and do the attack early. So its a early anti air super. The level 3 is a good anti air however. Shouldnt waste your time however anyway. Hou ou kyaku is much better and should be used instead.




Anyway kim has a ton of mix up for his anti airs. hes fairly weak unfortantly in the cross up anti air area but shit happens eh? if your not charged just roll the fuck away from cross ups. And that should do the trick.





quick review.....


low jumps= standing mk, down up+p, hou ou kyaku.

regular jumps= standing mk, hou ou kyaku, jumping mk, down up+p

early jumps = hou'ou hetin kyaku, ducking fierce, jumping mk.

cross ups= roll(lol) or down up+k


thats the basics i suppose to an exstent.







AIR TO AIR......
Lets see. Kims air to air game is good.

Kim is pretty strong air to air wise. In most cases alot of the time you shouldnt need to much more then your regular attacks like a roundhouse or the fierce. But against some of the higher priorty characters in the air(chun li, rolento ect) you gotta use jumping mk. Its really really fast and has a shit load of priorty.


You could use lk. But lemme say this if you have to use lk. i dunno somethings wrong. Hopefully the match doesnt come down to this. If your useing the lk i think pretty much your loseing the air to air battles before you even get off the ground. You just hopefully wont have to use this attack. The mk should be good enough. Mk beats about 90% of every air to air attack. Maybe trades with another 5% and 5% can beat it.


Of course you also have the ultimate air to air move the hou'ou tenbuu kyaku. Your well....your not gonna beat this move. its gonna beat everything. So of course this is a good air to air move. Of course remember that you can also buffer it easliy from a fierce so if you hit with a jump fierce cancle into the air super. It juggles and is good. It can also be cancled from the other attacks but fierce is easy and exstremly reliable.


Of course you could (very unlikley though) air to air with just the qcf+k in the air. Then tiger knee it a few times to juggle them. Pretty unlikley though.



again though for air to air use the mk in almost every sitution. I use to use the hk alot but in case the opponent is doing there air to air, its better safe then sorry i think now. And like i said kims mk is gonna beat just about everything. So just stick with the mk.










Oh well okies all be back later....

[TrueNewbiePR]

WHOA FINAL SHOWDOWN MORE MORE MORE MORE :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

POKE STRINGS.....



ahh the ineviatable eh???? Of course read these with common sence ect. You could stop whenever you want you dont have to make them as long as these. but here are some examples.......









1.ducking lk
--1a. standing lp
------1aa. throw
--1b. ducking lp
------1ba. tiger knee qcf+k
------------1baa. throw
------------1bab. standing lk
-------------------1baba. ducking roundhouse
-------------------1babb. standing fierce
-------------------1babc. ducking mk cancle to qcb+mk
------------1bac. Random super*
------------1bad. tiger knee qcf+k again
--------------------1bada. Random super*
------1bb. ducking lk, standing lk
------------1bba. walk foward standing lk
-------------------1bbaa. ducking roundhouse
------------1bbb. standing fierce
------------1bbc. walk slightly foward ducking mk qcb+mk
------------1bbd. dash in
-------------------1bbda. throw
-------------------1bbdb. start over at 1, 2, or 3.
-------------1bbe. roll
--------------------1bbea. throw
--------------------1bbeb. Random super*
------1bc. ducking mk
-----------1bca. qcb+mk
------------------1bcaa. standing fierce
------------------1bcab. Random super*
------------------1bcac. roll**
--------------------------1bcaca. down up+hk
--------------------------1bcacb. throw
--------------------------1bcacc. Random super*
-----------1bcb.back foward+mk
------------------1bcba. down up+hk
------------------1bcbb. Random super*
------------------1bcbc. go to 1bcac
-----------1bdc. down down+hk(hold)
------------------1bdca. mp






2. ducking mk***
--2a. down down hk(hold)
------2aa. lp cancle into qcb+mk


3.ducking lp, standing hp
--3a. qcb+lk
------3aa. standing lk
-----------3ab. ducking mk qcb+mk
----------------3aba. standing hp
----------------3abb. Random super*
-----------3ac. ducking roundhouse
-----------3ad. standing fierce
------3ab. tiger knee qcf+k
------------3aba. throw
------------3abb. go to 3aa.
------------3abc. Random super*
------3ac. standing fierce
------3ad. ducking roundhouse
------3ae. go to 1bcac
------3af. ducking mk
-----------3afa. qcb+mk
-----------3afb. back foward+hk
-----------------3afc. then do one of the options after 1bcb
--3b. down down+hk(hold)
------3ba. hp
------3bb. mp

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

4.F+hk(hold)
--4a. infintie command
------4aa. mk
------------4aaa. ducking roundhouse
------4ab. lp into back foward+hk
------------4aba. then do one of the options after 1bcb

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

Phew......dang this is taking so long....


not even close to done though. to get some more stuff out of the way though lemme just tell ya what all the "*" ment.....






*
These were the random supers. ect. Kims random super is move likely gonna be the hou ou kyaku at level 2 about 95% of the time. Level 2 is good enough to beat just about everything> YOu dont need higher. I suppose if you played A-Groove you could also do your random CC here as well to blow through the attack of the opponent. These are the most likely times to land these as is why i put it there. =p



**
now were i put this is well. sigh. I put this here beacuse this is a good pattern!! it really is. This was a highly effective pattern for a long time. But i put it ther beacuse i also feel it is the most risky of the patterns. As is seems the opponents like to walk up throw after the certain attack in these patterns which can fuck up rolls. I would guess that other kim players used this tactic around for awhile so now its like second nature to walk foward and get ready to throw after something like this.

anyway this is just here to warn you. THough i will say the pattern in number 3 is a bit better then the others. But still can be risky none the less.



***
ok now this is just a little pattern. But this is a speical pattern. =p This is just gaurd crush big time. Of course i am assumeing you started it with a cross up hk or something to that exstent however. This is pretty much a true blocked combo besides the spot in the down down hk to lp. But still other then that this poke string does a good 65% gaurd alone. On P or K about 75%. ALso another thing about this is that the qcb+mk always hits just barley. Your always at the safest point you can be when doing this mannuver. Which means that well you shouldnt be able to even be hit by anything after this. Delayed blocking super or not.

Just kinda neat pattern that i wanted to point out.








Also you may notice that i always write down up hk or such after rolls. This is beacuse i figure if you thought you were gonna hit you might as well get everything for it. Your gonna get punieshed if they block a lk version as well. So fuck it and throw caution to the wind. Its all or nothing. When you play you should have complete confidence that you are the right guesser not the opponent.







dang so much more coming......argh.....



be back later to try and finish the poke string section and tactics.

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

OK now that i wrote all that down i gotta take it all away...


sorry.

na just kidding but hold up. OK now lets contiune talking pokes a patterns and stuff like that.





Now one of kims biggest problems in small characters. beacuse stuff that useally are like true blocked strings become reversalable. which is pretty shitty. A good way to test if the character counts as small is if they can ducking kims standing fierce. If they can well that sucks. lol First of standing fierce is a good poke so when you can poke with it(not that you cant but its better when a poke hits blocking as well), it can be fairly frustrating.



Basicly if they can duck the standing fierce they are also able to reversal stuff like ducking mk to qcb+k. Normaly this is a true blocked string hit or ducking but against smaller characters if they block while ducking they are able to reversal between the mk and qcb+k.


This isnt to say that this is a horrible thing to do in a poke string by any means but it defentily isnt good. lol




Though heres some more things about character size effecting your pokes.

Thankfully its not to bad if the character can duck your standing feirces and the first hit of the hangetzan. Cuz you do gain the tiger knee qcf+k being better. Basicly since they are slightly lower to the ground when you tiger knee it you hit with it later making it well better.

i dunno commen sence i suppose when you think about it. But whatever. I suppose granted you could also say to argue if this is better or not is that well now it takes longer to hit so they could hit you before it comes out.


well my arguement for this would be that i wouldnt do a move if i didnt think it would hit...so there. lol Basicly i get better recovery so all take it. i thought i was gonna hit anyway so haveing better recovery is good.


Not to say that you cant use it against average size characters but against the small characters its just better.

and you really need that much more stuff against them. Against the smaller characters it really sucks beacuse you lose the standing fierce as a main poke so basicly instead of that you have to use the ducking roundhouse a lot more often. The poke strings with the qcb+k become less usefull. So its nice to have just a bit more mix up against them. Also since pokeing becomes a problem against the smaller characters the better recovery on the hishou kyaku will help you to hopefully start a poke string after that.

Again though im not trying to say the hishou kyaku becomes like some gnarly move now or anything. But its a tiny bit better. So you gotta take it.

Now heres another thing like i said earlier. The fat characters. Well you can tiger knee the hishou kyaku from a fair distance away so well...thats good. Since it doesnt have alot of range and the fat characters just get hit by things easier. So its easier to add it to your poke strings.


The tall characters well you get a standing jab rush down against them. lol so whatever.

something along the lines of maybe....

ducking lk,lp, standing lp, walk foward lp, walk foward lp, ducking mk, qcb+k.

just a example. But the good thing is instead of haveing to use something like a standing lk walk a bit foward standing lk. Now you have a faster standing lp to walk foward with and it hits ducking so of course thats ussaly more better then good.

the only problem against big characters is you cant try to do like the "watson" or "mike" like cross up hk, standing lp(wiff) throw.

stuff like them wont work since kim doesnt have a close standing lp...

win some ya lose some i guess.















I dunno just wanted to explain a bit more about what works what doesnt ect.


I put a ton of fucking poke strings there and some examples of things so hopefully you can work with that. All post like a ground game thing later so its more like what you wanna do when sorta perhaps something to that exstent.

[Keaver]

This is quite a usefull thread, thanks a lot.

[Time Mage]

OK, thanks for re-writing/revising your old Kim thread, it's really helpfull.

If you've finished the basics, I would like your advice for a specific match up that is giving me headaches lately; the name: Bison (US).

The Bison I fight is basically a flying Bison (lotsa jumping HK, and some d,u + HK), plus a very high turtle component.

When he turtles, that's OK, I can rush him down without much problems. But if he starts rushing ME with the j.HK, then safe ground string, then crossup j.HK, etc... It's horrible. My j.HK and j.HP looses to his j.HK like 90% of the time... Should I use j.MK, or it won't stop him to own the air?
Don't tell me "just antiair HououKyaku him" because I haven't it avaiable always and also he may cross me up, fucking the HououKyaku (cause it miss and basically transform into a teleport...)

OK, thanks for the efforts in this thread!

[znzf]

some specific stuff vs characters like p-groove gief/nak and blanka plz :D

[JS Master]

some js master's weaknesses are???
and how to beat him?

[Eternal Blue]

Originally posted by znzf
some specific stuff vs characters like p-groove gief/nak and blanka plz :D

You're such a fucking idiot. You're always asking ppl to give you character specific strats (aka you suck and you can't beat ppl's teams so you try to get spoon fed strategies to help you win). Fuck off and learn the god damn game without being such a pussy.

[Time Mage]

Originally posted by Eternal Blue


You're such a fucking idiot. You're always asking ppl to give you character specific strats (aka you suck and you can't beat ppl's teams so you try to get spoon fed strategies to help you win). Fuck off and learn the god damn game without being such a pussy.

You are very rude. That commentary is unnecesary.
Why do you care if he ask for specific vs strats?
You aren't the one that is going to reply.

Behave yourself, please. I would like a srk.com without flamers, specially in this thread. It's very interesting, so don't ruin it.

[GalzPanic]

Hey FSHO I like those indented poking strings! Hella easy to read....good stuff. I should try it with Mai.

[Eternal Blue]

Originally posted by Time Mage


You are very rude. That commentary is unnecesary.
Why do you care if he ask for specific vs strats?
You aren't the one that is going to reply.

Behave yourself, please. I would like a srk.com without flamers, specially in this thread. It's very interesting, so don't ruin it.

I can't stand it when ppl can't think for themselves. Now fuck off.

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

Good gosh lol.... i get back and i got a ton of replies. lol




ok first of all..

geese and znsf. can you guys please refrain from flaming in my thread to its at least finished!!??:bluu: :( please delete those posts and put them at the end of the thread or some shit.


the thread is only like half way done yo. give me a break. I dunno i would just rather people be able to read the thread the whole way through.



anyway ok stop the flaming till the stuff is done.








Time Mage.....
All get to bison in a bit. Lemme write a bit more stuff then all get to it. I dun work tommorw so i should have time to finish it hopefully. Just hold on a bit more...sowwie.



JS master.....
=p settle down dude. lol your great dude dun worry what other people think. more people should be like you at your age. your gonna be fucking people up hard core when you get older.


Keaver....
thanks its not done yet though so hold up. theres alot more. im gonna make this thread huge dude.


GalzPanic...
thanks alot dude. i thought it would make it a bit easier.



znzf...
hold up also. all write the stuff a bit later....

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

ha. thanks znzf.















COMBOS....


bread and butter...


yawn the bread and butter combo. Basicly the most used combos. Kim is lucky enough to be granted with 2 count them 2 combos that can be used pretty easily at just about any time.


ducking lk,lp,mp qcb+k....
this is probably the main bread and butter combo. Most likely beacuse the damage is good and if its blocked your pretty safe. But its defintily the worst imo. First as ive said earlier if you vs a character that is small well this wont even combo. so that sucks. Also hangetzan is punishable by all means even when blocked.

OK so its not thaaaaat bad. But against throw characters this is nigh useless except for at max distance. Also never use HK version. The hk version is punishable by delayed blocking supers and fast speicals....its even punishable by some normal attacks cough* cammy ducking mk *cough......


Always try to use the mk version. Your fairly safe after it besides throw reversals and delayed blocking supers.





Ducking lkX3 down up+hp....
BY FAR THE BEST.....at least imo. This should hit all characters besides the smallest of the small. Also its easy as hell most the time. Not much skill involved in it really. Also when you hit with it you gain much ground and freedom from the knock down so you dash back do some foot stomps charge up meter. Sets up cross ups, and even the best dash cross ups easily. ALso if they happen to block the move has good recovery acctualy. You end up landed on the other side and you can(if you charged) down up+hk when you land or Random super after it.

Hella stupid i know but dude people fall for this. lol....Im not saying its insane like no recovery but much better then you would think.


I personaly use this one more then the other one.



also with kim make sure you can tiger knee the hishou kyaku. Its not to hard at all honestly. that is if your not in a low jump groove. Stuff like super into hishou kyakuX4 into super is pretty commen(at least when i play) not to hard and is pretty effective. ALso say you only have like 2 and half levels and you just did air super. well instead of cancleing(this is assuming you have C groove.) into just down up+hk or hp do hishou kyakuX4 you just charged up that last bit then go into air super. Thats another big use for it. Use it to charge that super. Just get that last little bit you needed.




which brings me to.....


JUGGLES.......


ok well lets talk about juggles in kims combos....


hishou kyaku can be reapeated up to 4X per session and 8X in awhole combo all togther. THe only time this will change is after a level 1 hou'ou hetin kyaku, you are only allowed 3 tiems after the first hit. So basicly if you wanted to get 8 you could do hishou kyakuX4 , qcf,hcb+mk, hishou kyakuX4 then air super again.

blah blah easy eh???


Some moves you can juggle after would be well i guess obivously after a hou'ou hetin kyaku.


The kuu sajin can also be juggled after the lk version has a strange little priorty about it. Ok now he kicks twice right well if he misses the first hit and only hits with the second you should be able to tack on some hishou kyakus after it. The higher versions mk and hk you should be able to hou'ou tenbuu kyaku afterwords.

which makes for some fucking nasty anti airs if you can pull it off and have the confidence to try it. Example anti air with down up+hp then qcf,hcb ub+hk(tiger knee it). that just fucking put a hurt on your opponent. lol


shit like that ya know??

got it?

cool




The hein zan lk version you should also be able to tack on some hishou kyakus ect. You want to just hit with that part like right after the slice and you should be able to juggle after it. More tight timing but its can be done.


after a hp from switch stance you should also be able to juggle with the hishou kyaku ect.


and of course. the infinite. The infintie fucks everything up. This lets any move(ANY MOVE) juggle. Once you go into this from a level 2 cancle well. You can juggle with anything hou ou kyaku super ect. normal moves also juggle the whole thing.


like i could do qcfX2+mk, infinite command, jump fierce cancle to air super stuff like that.


anything works now.




Also just in case you wanted to know when i land the qcfX2+mk the regualr combo i would do is......

qcfX2+mk, infintie commandX3, lp, down up+hk.

This hurts you alot, does a ton of stun and is pretty easy. The infintie gets harder after awhile of doing. Not that it really does get harder it just does cuz its like a uncomfertable postion for your hands really. So after i do my damage im basicly like ok why risking doing it more with the chance of me fucking up? This ussaly dizzys anyway.(depending on were you are in the match.)



If you land infintie in middle of the screen all hope is not lost. There is a way to hit with the infintie backwords. Ive done it before unfortantly im not quite sure how ive done it. =/

ussaly in the middle of the screen all do the infintie command into the feirce out of switch stance. This also does a good deal of damage.


This isnt to say that the infinite has to be by a corner. But the corner should at least be visable.


you can try to get some more distances if you need more space to work them into the corner by doing the infintie but delaying the the release of the hk at the end. Normaly. You dont want to even see the lp from the switch stance come out. However you can delay it though so you see kim turn around just to get a slight more room to edge them to the corner.


Anyway basicly after the foot stomp from the infinite just remember anything combos i guess.....






If the infinite is giveing you problems kim has easier combos from the hou'ou hetin kyaku. (again remember im assuming you are playing C groove. i did say infintie after all. =/) After the move do down down hk, then do lp, down up+hp.

easy and good damage. AND!!...the kuu sajin sets up all those nice cross ups ect.


This is the best way to use the hou'ou heitn kyaku if you are not confident in your ablities in performing this attack.







okies....thats all for now.....

[elhandro]

Final Rushdown

Thanks for the rundown, you really no your ish. I guess im still a basic kim player and my game consist of mixups and rush downs. I have problems combo in my super but after reading your post i think i saw some different ways to add it into my game.
Ok i have Two question for you, what do you mean when you refer to certain moves by Tiger kneeing, are you talking about the motion or something else. Plus what kind of controller do you play on, are you talking about the arcade or do you use a Dc pad or something else. Anyway thanks again for the strats, I guess i just need to practice more.

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

TRICKS/LITTLE MIND GAMES ......
ok lets go for some throw set up ect and random super set ups.....




OK ways to catch your opponent off gaurd with a throw is say after a cross up do ducking lk, then do a standing lp then throw.
Easy eh?? Of course you also have the gnarly roll throw. lol. also just kims dash is a pretty good throw set up. After say a poke string of ducking lk,lp,lk standing lk dash in throw is a old kim tactic that still works till this day. You could also low jump and mk or lk which would most likely miss then throw.


Also in the left side of the corner remember after a knock down you can dash over there body to cross them up on the other side. So if you were to throw them in the corner you can go cross them up then perhaps throw them on the other side.....




KUU SAJIN....
Yes this gets its own little section in tricks. Like i said the kuu sajin is great for mind games....After you hit with a kuu sajin you are free for a cross up or cross up dash ect. Or even dash back while charging some super with haki kyaku. Also some of kims best mind games come after hitting this with a tiger knee hishou kyaku then dash over there body then ethier throw or start a pattern on the other side or random super.....



lets put this into a match for example.....

ducking lkX3, down up +hp, tiger knee hishou kyaku, dash over body then throw on the other side.

Now the hishou kyaku isnt gonna hit but you have such a good amount of time that well basicly this is just to charge up super. lol so you hit with kuu sajin then tiger knee hishou kyaku when you land then dash over body then throw on the other side.

really really good when mixed up with random supers once you hop to the other side.

I suppose on another note if the opponent were in the corner and you did the tiger knee hishou kyaku you would hit them if they tech rolled but then again tech roll in the corner isnt the safest of things so i would expect to see it to often.

Another thing you could do is after kuu sajin sj straight up then do the hishou kyaku. Remember when you jump striaght up and do hishou kyaku(at the right distance of course. and like i said earlier this is made easier when the opponent is in the corner) in most cases your gonna cross them up with it. So if they try a dp+p they will basicly get hit from behind with the hishou kyaku. In most cases you will win or at least trade. And of course this also allows you to be charging while your coming down so in case they try to throw you when you land you can do down up+hk when you land.




Hou ou kyaku(level 2).....
Just another reason why kim is a monster in C groove and not the others. Think of this move just like the kuu sajin in case of mix ups ect. After you hit with a level 2 version at the very last hit cacnle into qcf+hk you will land at the same time, then dash to the other side and etheir poke string or throw. THis is just a exstremly good way to land a throw.

fucking really good. Of course this is also a really good alternative if well obivously you wouldnt be in the corner or the hishou kyaku woulda hit. So when your not in the corner you may not have the tiger knee type combos but you just have a great way to mix things up.



You could also put the kuu sajin and the hou ou kyaku into one big string of attacks acctualy.

lets try this.....



ducking lkX3, down up+hp, qcf+k(tiger knee) , dash over body, qcb,hcf+mk, qcf+hk, dash over body, throw.




lets try some patterns.....



1. down up+hp
--1a. tiger knee qcf+k
------1aa. f f(dash)
-----------1aaa. throw
-----------1aab. go to the poke strings i listed earlier in the section
-----------1aac. Random Super(hou ou kyaku level 2 perferably)
------------------1aaca. qcf+hk*
---------------------------1aacaa. f f(dash)
-------------------------------------1aacaaa. throw
-------------------------------------1aacaab. go to 1aab.
---------------------------1aacab. dash back and down down+k**
--1b. go to 1aacab
--1c. sj straight up then qcf+hk***
-----1ca. throw
-----1cb. go to 1aacab
-----1cc. down up+hk
-----1cd. go to 1aac







*
this is assuming you cancle the last hit of the level 2 hou ou kyaku super.



**
Dashing back can also be a usefull mix up to these piticualr attack strings ect. You may have baited the reversal and now your left to your self charging super ect. This will most likely bait them to jumping in were down down+k has good enough recovery that if you see it coming you should be able to jump mk them out of the air before they hit you. You could also dash back then down down +k then dash back do it again ect. Like dash back charge super dash back charge super annoying and such. lol Instead of just dash back then do a few foot stomps. Also you could roll as a anti air in this sitution if you baited the jump in. After you expect them to jump roll then throw on the other side.


***
in most cases i do the down up+hk. like i said earlier i think hishou kyaku is a pretty risky move in a lot of cases so i usasly get ready to try and counter attack when they try to hit me after it. This should be the most used versions of these piticular attack strings.












This is extremly good if your a good guesser(which lets hope you are. :] ) Basicly you just are always were you wanna be. They have to outsmart you the whole time. yeah they could try to reversal but thats why you have Random super there if you guessd that. yeah they could block your poke string. But you could also throw them. :)













RANDOM SUPERS......
well since we got alot out of the way with the little section earlier.
lets go to a few more....



well the best is definitly the roll then super. lol Just gotta know when to do it really. You shouldnt do a level 1 hou ou kyaku and nor the level 3. Always do the level 2. You just have to guess right i cant say much more then that.

The only level 1 super that kim can really random with is the hou'ou tenbu kyaku. This is most likely gonna happen when your doing poke strings and you purposely start to sorta loosen them up add a few more holes on purpose so they try to attack. Then tiger knee the move to stop the attack. The level 1 is really gonna stop just about everything. Since well obivsoubly you are in the air when you do this and they are missing you. It takes timing and isnt used all that to often(at least in my case) but it definitly works if you can guess right and pull it off.

also its nice that in most cases if you miss you just land and have a good chance of not being hit.


After a tiger knee hishou kyaku you can try a random super after that.


After hangetzan you can try random super also. This works cuz alot of times like lets say you did try a ducking lp,lp,mk qcb+mk then you standing fierce after it. Now if they blocked it the first time in most cases they would try to attack next time. thats why you random super.



After comet cruncher you could also random super. although the distance is really tricky and not always avaliable like ok im gonna have them block the move at a certain distance. Hopefully you hit with the move but if you dont theres a good chance they may try to punish.


One other one would be if you do a lets say standing roundhouse that goes into switch stance(doesnt really matter just go in switch stance) then wiff a lk from that. Then do random super. This is also a really effect random super.



all random supers are a set up.

real simple just gotta guess right. As in the thread earlier i put were all random supers have a good chance of working so were ever they are in the poke strings ect use them there.





















yawn ok....thats all for now......

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

Originally posted by elhandro
Final Rushdown

Thanks for the rundown, you really no your ish. I guess im still a basic kim player and my game consist of mixups and rush downs. I have problems combo in my super but after reading your post i think i saw some different ways to add it into my game.
Ok i have Two question for you, what do you mean when you refer to certain moves by Tiger kneeing, are you talking about the motion or something else. Plus what kind of controller do you play on, are you talking about the arcade or do you use a Dc pad or something else. Anyway thanks again for the strats, I guess i just need to practice more.


Ah by tiger kneeing the move i mean..

the hishou kyaku (qcf+k in air ) would be like this.....

qcf uf+k



the other move you might tiger knee would be the hou'ou tenbuu kyaku

which would be qcf,hcb ub+k





ah as for what controller i use i can use both arcade stick and controller. just depends i guess. Though i will say i hate most 360 joy sticks beacuse i cant feel the angles.

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

ZONEING.....
umm hmmm ok...im really tried.....lol ahh...lets just go over a few things.

OK jumping straight up. Or more likely sj striaght up. Jumping straight up is always a nice way to get your space ect. Its also good against hoppity type characters or spazzy. Basicly with kim you wanna jump straight up then if they jump just stick out mk to anti air them. If they try to gain ground while walking well use roundhouse. Kim is also very much so better at this(then some other characters) beacuse of a few other reasons......The hishou kyaku being a pretty obivous one. OK now lets say your vs iori. Say he has you zoned out with fireballs of some sort now you start try to jump straight up over fireballs to slowly gain ground walk foward jump straight up ect.(i suppose you could roll but lets say its not the best option at the time or say your in K or P)Well the iori person expects this so he does madien masher to anti air you when you are in the air. Well fuck that you can do hishou kyaku to stall your fall from the air then come down. You just saved your self big time. Another lets say your vs bison(usa) his all hopping his in the air the whole time. So you decide to try to zone him out by jumping straight up mk. Well eventualy he starts to settle down and starts to turtle a bit him self. He baits your jump and does the super pycho crusher to anti air you. well you do hishou kyaku to delay your fall. and well basicly your safe.



starting to get it??


OK another thing. One way to stop tactics like these would be to slowly inch your way foward then stick out a anti air while they are still in the air. Perferably a normal in case they have C groove so they cant air block. Well kim is also pretty safe from things like this as well you could air super straight down on them if you anticapted this.




Jumping straight up=good.

its pretty boring at times though all admit.



More things. Ground wise when i start to turtle try to keep the opponent at set distances all do something to this exstent.

ducking lk,lp, standing lk....

just do it really fast. your gonna be wiffing them basicly. So you should be lets say at least half screen away. walking back and forth really fast wiffing moves staying out of distacne really but your attacks should keep them from trying to back up if thats what they were doing. and if they are trying to attack also standing lk should at least trade with there attacks if not beat them.


While your doing this you could also try to everynow and then down down+k to charge some super.




all this togther can let kim turtle pretty effectivly if need be.




im away from you wiffing a little 3 attack string. Charging super everynow and then with haki kyaku. The other dude gets pissed goes to jump i jump up mk. now lets say the opponent is a bit spazzy starts jumping well i start jumping staright up and down quite a bit adjusting to well whatever he trys to do. Also if you play C groove always hold back(or down back) while jumping straight up. This will help that if the opponent did get there attack out before you you just air blocked it. Now in most cases you will acctualy land before them and you will be able to reversal with a super of some sort when you land to hit them.



So in conculsion kim has alot of options to zone out the opponent when you guess right and even if the do guess right you have the tools to (delay your fall ect) to keep your self safe so you wont come out on the losing end.

[Cantrip]

Ive been using K kim as of late, n I think im the only one who does. Pesonally I believe its the only groove with out a roll Kim is worth anything in. Off a aerial JD the hishou kyaku makes it almost a parry n once u get bar no one trys to AA since his rush supers are so damn fast. It also really helps his poke game since JD a heavy to mid power poke isnt safe anymore. Any oe else play him in K?

[tribaL]

Also just in case you wanted to know when i land the qcfX2+mk the regualr combo i would do is......

qcfX2+mk, infintie commandX3, lp, down up+hk.

This hurts you alot, does a ton of stun and is pretty easy. The infintie gets harder after awhile of doing. Not that it really does get harder it just does cuz its like a uncomfertable postion for your hands really. So after i do my damage im basicly like ok why risking doing it more with the chance of me fucking up? This ussaly dizzys anyway.(depending on were you are in the match.)

when you say "infintie commandx3", are you referring to dd+hk (hold), d+lp (let go), d+hk being used to juggle after a qcfx2+mk

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

yes

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

Well since this is gonna take awhile also considering im having trouble getting on to forums anyway lets just get the bison thing outa the way.....




BISON(usa vega japan)......
OK lets get some stuff out of the way. The common poke string for bison is not safe. At least lemme assuming you are talking along the lines of


ducking lpX2,mk , b f+lk.


this is string is punishable by all means. Now a sissor kick from max distance were it only hits with one hit your pretty much gonna be screwed and not gonna be able to hit him. But then again if he were to do something to this exstent that would mean that he left a whole in this string were you can roll easily to avoid.

I would guess that (at least if i were bison i would) bison however is doing the regular poke string that i listed.

Now this acctualy strangly enough will not be hit by normal reversals. Like lets say you tried to reversal down up+k or p. this will not hit. But strangly enough even the more simpler ducking lk or mk should hit him after this. Of course you are also able to reversal hou ou kyaku level2 or higher however if you wished to do so.



Now ok so basicly you block this string now just hit ducking lk. this is the easiest. Time it earlier then you think you acctualy get out of the block stun.(or at least it seems to me.) The ducking mk can also be used. But the timing is very unforgiving on this and well. Unless you feel confident in timing this stick with the ducking lk.

Useing the ducking lk isnt that bad anyway. Since your already charging from blocking the ducking mk(at least most likely as i would assume most poke strings should be block low) in the pattern after the sissor kick hit ducking lk then press up and hp.


easy you punished him.


Now unless this is some differnt poke string or something that i listed earlier this should work for you every time. Go in training mode if you would like to practice doing it with the mk however as the timing on that is a bit hard. =/



Anyway now that we got this little thing you asked about lets get to the others.



No in most cases you are right you shouldnt anti air with hou ou kyaku. Jump is to high and well in most cases you will miss. IN a strange twist of fate however. You could anti air with( i guess that is *rolls eyes* still not the best, but better then hou ou kyaku in this piticular match) hou'ou hetin kyaku. His jump is pretty much just asking for this move. And since this move never gets used its pretty lonesome by now so its just itching to get out. Just anticapate the jump and do this attack early. And you should hit him.

Ussaly against bison i use the jump mk to anti air him. His jump is high enough that even if i was slightly unprepared for the jump in i still have enough time to pull it off. So when you see the jump just sj foward and hit mk right when you leave the ground. ALso if your in C groove remember to be holding back when you jump in case bison sticks out a attack early and your attack its not really a prob you should air block this then land with more then enough time in a lot of cases to land then reversal him while he is still falling.

And yes in air to air use the mk.


Another thing though i did say the the hou'ou hetin kyaku is good i would nessacarly use the ducking fierce for anti air as in when he jumps in.


Though there is a time when this move may become usefull.


One of bisons tactics he may use against kim(and well not just kim but were talking kim here so i will contiune) is well put him self in the corner purposly then start jumping up and down hk. Since bisons jump is so dang high it also can make it hard to air to air him as hes always has the higher ground then you.

Basicly this makes it hard to realy get near him. When used right this also makes rolling useless as well hes in the air so not really the best time to roll when he could just easly avoid it or hit you. OK but now what you should do against something like this is walk foward wait for him to jump up then ducking fierce. From this angle you should never get beat. This will stop the jumping up and down flat out. Just wait for him to do this then walk foward ducking hp.


A really good use for this move in this piticualr match.





Other anti air options in this piticualr match up is remember to delay the button presses for the cross ups.


Like when you do a anti air if you wanna anti air a cross up you would do down up..(stutter)+hp.

This should allow you enough time to track bisons cross ups and make it fairly easy.

So ok for a regualr anti air it would be down up+hp
cross up down up(stutter or delay) then press hp

so basicly were regulary you would press up then the button at the same time. Now you press up then the button.


Its pretty easy when you get the hang of it. And bisons cross ups have hella air time so its not to hard to time in many cases in a match like this. And its really a most do at times cuz if you try to just do the motion for hein zan regularly the cross up will beat the move. =/


Both command anti airs have uses in this match up. Just use them were you see fit.






Bison has a pretty fast rushing jab also. But never try to roll out of this. Just down up+hk as reversal. Shouldnt be to hard to reversal with. Please dont try to roll out of this. Bisons jab rush is really good and fast and he can just turn around quickly on the other side restart or throw you etheir or.











One of the biggest things about the bison match is well. Against bison he may be in the air alot so this match can be sorta tiresome. its not to hard of a match up i dun think. But the biggest problem is the annoyence factor. Just play stupid if you have to. Many times in a bison match were i get the lead i jump up and down with mks for long periods of time. lol very boring but just keep bison zoned out and you should have to much trouble. Just stay air to air with him. Work him down to the ground. Then beat him there. Try not to chase him to much. Dun get to frustrated when playing him!!! Just remember mk for air to air and work him down to the ground with that.



on another note standing fierce does hit him ducking also so this can be a good poke in this match up.













.
.
.
.


okies other then that use the regular kim stuff you would do in a regular match. Roll super ect. =p yadda yadda. Those should be the character speciifics i can think about.






OK thats it for now all get to your stuff later znzf im gonna be pretty busy for the weekend though not to sure though might go hang out tommorow with friends and then i work on the weekend so im not to sure when its gonna get done.

but all try.

okies later.

[Kim Sue-il]

Originally posted by Cantrip
Ive been using K kim as of late, n I think im the only one who does. Pesonally I believe its the only groove with out a roll Kim is worth anything in. Off a aerial JD the hishou kyaku makes it almost a parry n once u get bar no one trys to AA since his rush supers are so damn fast. It also really helps his poke game since JD a heavy to mid power poke isnt safe anymore. Any oe else play him in K?

Off an aerial JD, you could do jLP/FP, Hou'ou Tenbu Kyaku (if in RAGE MODE of course).

I used to use K-Groove to TONE DOWN my Rolling when I played Kim in N-Groove. I found it hard to play Kim in K because of my JD skills lacked. I marely turtled with Kim in K-Groove. I'm might pick it back up sometime.

Hey Clayton, wasn't K-Groove Kim's Hangestu Zan SAFE. So you could abuse Kim's B&B combo all you wanted.

[Time Mage]

Big thanks, FS!!:D

Hopefully, I'll beat the hell out of his Bison next time I fight him!:evil:

As you said, one of my main problems was the impatiene. I'll try not to chase him that much, but let him come to me, and try the tactics you've suggested...

THANKS!

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

Originally posted by Kim Sue-il


Off an aerial JD, you could do jLP/FP, Hou'ou Tenbu Kyaku (if in RAGE MODE of course).

I used to use K-Groove to TONE DOWN my Rolling when I played Kim in N-Groove. I found it hard to play Kim in K because of my JD skills lacked. I marely turtled with Kim in K-Groove. I'm might pick it back up sometime.

Hey Clayton, wasn't K-Groove Kim's Hangestu Zan SAFE. So you could abuse Kim's B&B combo all you wanted.

yeah sorta to an exstent. what you do or i dunno i guess what basicly happens is that well after the qcb+k you just do like JD right after it. And since when you JD you sorta like go into the block aniamation really fast you dun really have that frame before it so a delayed blocking super shouldnt effect you beacuse you go right into the block without that frame or whatever it is before you start blocking.



I remember ive seen a video of a K groove kim doing this also before. Not to sure were it was though.


So you just qcb+k then press back right after and you should be safer then usual. Its sorta like rocks little strings in P groove.

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

I havnt forgot about the thread. dun worry you guys....all write more once im in the mood and not working ect.....

[Kim Sue-il]

Kim is god with autoguard....................

I mean BUMP

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

lol...riiiiiiiiiiight.....





anyways...





GROOVE SELECTION....
Yawn lets go through this though im sure you already know what i would say anyway. OK lets get S outta the way first. Kim doesnt really gain much from S besides gaining a new anti air with dodge +p. Besides that its at the second hit so its gotta be a fairly early anti air. Still it has nice priorty so thats not to bad. ALso you trade the roll for the dodge which is a bit strange espeiclay consdiering kim has arguably the best roll in the game. You can still try and add the dodge to your poke strings.

like you could do a cross up hk, land ducking lk,lp dodge+p qcb+lk stuff like that.

Just try to use the dodge in middle of poke strings and if they dont attack well go into a combo.

You could also work it in were ever i put just a regualr standing close fierce just dodge were that was. So if you see a attack you would have just dodged it then do a super out of it or since you should be charging do a hein zan or kuu sajin.


If you hit with the dodge attack you should most likely go into hein zan or kuu sajin.


Hmm since you dun need haki kyaku to build super now you can just use the charge in its place obivously and well if they jump then jump mk them ect.


In N groove is well N groove i guess.


lol....well i think the biggest problems for kim in S or N is that in reality in most cases you only have access to level 1s. And for the most part the levels 1 are alot harder to use. To counter attack on the ground you need to do tiger knee hou'ou tenbuu kyaku to stop the attack. But of course this is harder considering you are in a low jump groove in the first place. =/ The hou ou kyaku is ok at level 1 for some reversals on some meaty attacks. But in most cases this isnt that good at level 1. Of Course also doing a random super with a level 1 isnt the best idea ethier. lol The hou'ou hetin kyaku is ok if its a early early anti air.


Hmm basicly kims biggest problem in these grooves is that his level 1s arnt the greatest. Also low jump makes it harder to tiger knee. I also think dashing is much better then running.

The only thing all give running is that its easy to get in a start your main pokeing pattern of ducking lk,lp,lk, standing lk ect.

This should be the main pattern with kim IMO. And you can get in close enough to start this pretty easily.




K and P groove. Bleh. lol. Well the hangetzan becomes a bit more safe as i explained earlier.




dang ok im getting bored realy quick. as you can tell im cutting this short.


basicly i think C groove is by far his best groove. Dash is much better since you can cross up dash ect. You have air blocking which will help if you decide to turtle. You have level 2 supers which are just the best supers ever. lol





dang ok im bored...


anyway in translation pic.....


C GROOVE!!!



lol sorry guys i suck.... all try to write better next time.

[Kim Sue-il]

Hey Clayton, you baised C-Groove lover. You're all lazy and forgot to put P-Groove and A-Groove.

Anyways............

Extra stuff:

S-Groove:
You can also do Kim's Hou'ou Tnebu Kyaku and Hishou Kyaku during a dodge, you just have to tiger knee it.

N-Groove:
Just because supers aren't as great as C-Groove, doesn't mean N-Groove sucks. Breaking Power Stocks is good for getting in that little bit of extra damage. Guard Cancel Emergency Roll (f/b LP+LK) is a great addtion to N-Groove, since this helps against pressure attacks (Clayton Tactic) and some Custom Combo's. Trust me, it's worth a stock if your in trouble. Running is good damn it. You can run and poke at times.

Oh well, this stuff may not help but it's something.

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

lol...bah I guess i did forget A groove. Dum ass 2 button reversals. lol Oh buti guess doing a custom after a anti air kuu sajin can be a nice set up.

I dunno i hate N groove its such a cheap rip off of a once good advanced system or whatever. Low jumping and running are both stupid in cvs.


But yeah i guess like you just said counter rol is ok i guess. i guess kim could be considerd better with it acctualy since well his roll would be faster doing it.



Oh umm ok...Running anti airs are good. Like say you are at the other side of the screen and well of course the opponent just isnt gonna sit there so you have difernt options if you see them jump you can early anti air with ducking hp. If they just block there you can get in close then start your poke strings if you see them attack roll through it. You can use running to sutter just move in a bit closer then standing lk something like that. Try to run to a distance then just attack with the edge of your foot or whatever.


blah i dunno i hate running.

As for P groove well like you said earlier(or i guess you were talking about K but semi the same) you can parry in the air say a dp type move then fierce cancled to air super.....




oh well i dunno C groove is best! =p

[No defence]

I like Kim. I know C groove is the best for Kim on "paper" but I use Kim in N groove. Do you think he can be just as good in N groove, rather than C groove, but in a different way?

[Kim Sue-il]

N-Groove Kim is the best. FS just likes him for his dashing and lv2 supers. Kim's short jump game is very limited though. I would use his jFK as a short jump attack. His running is good to start poke strings and such like FS had stated. The only 3 running attacks that should be used are sLK, cFK, or sFP.

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

lol......



well ok C is just better i guess. And yeah if you were playing N groove you should play diff cuz you cant play the same.





Lets see....




N Groove you lose random supers. You lost one of your very good anti airs. You lose the infinite.(isntt to bad but still you lose it.) You lose air blocking which will help you turtle.(examples would be jumping straight up and say they got the jump on you and get there attack out before well in most cases you block it. land and can then super them while they fall down.) You sorta lose tiger knee. Well ok you dont but trust me lets just say you miss and you jumping lk to no were. thats not very good. lol....


You lose your dash so no more cross up dash mind games with throws all that stuff. You lose your level 2s which are exstremly good. You should never really even need to use a level 3. Just use your level 2 if your using it to hit one of there attacks ect you shouldnt have needed a level 3 in the first place. And well if you hit you can ethier go into another level 1 for more damage then the level 3 it self. Or you could just hit with the level 2. Then you only need to charge up another level 1 wich shouldnt be to hard.



yeah so you do need to play diff in N groove you should play more offensensive in your face style. Rushing in to start your main patterns ect.




I dunno i think kim is better in C groove its just imo. So if you wanna play N you can its ok.

[Kim Sue-il]

Oh who cares if the infinite doesn't work in N-Groove. I mean, if you corner the opponent with a MAX Hou'ou Hiten Kyaku, you still can get 2 haki Kyaku's and a Hou'ou Kyaku (if you have another stock).

Anyways, it's all about a blocked mp Kuu sa Jin being a nice cross up. It sets you up for pokes and shit.

.................................C-Groove is crap. Blah! I could never use Kim in any crapcom groove. Well, I do use Kim in A-Groove on some occasions. It's rare though.

[Kim Sue-il]

In N-Groove, you can build up your super meter easily too. Oh wait, Kim can build meter like mad in any Groove, due to his poke strings...... My Bad!

Hey Clayton, I've got little Boy Orochi Chris for ya next time we play some KoF'98.

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

ROLLING STRATS......



hm well umm yeah. =p how could i make a kim thread without talking about rolling eh? Well umm yeah i couldnt really... hmm rolling is good. lol. Hmm kims roll isnt even a roll the way i see it. When i think of kim rolling i think of it as just another every day speical move that he has. anyway lets go over the main every day things you use and when it should happen blah blah.....





1. hein zan(down up +roundhouse). Ok if your gonna roll anti air use the roundhouse version. Theres no reason to use the lk version. If they blocked your gonna get fucked anyway. So the way i see it is if you thought you were gonna hit in the first place you may as well use the roundhouse version. You should have complete confidence in your self. The hein zan is used when the opponent thinks you may try a throw in the roll mix up so well they would try to attack. And well you fucked them up there. Another use of this is when you cross up roll. Now the distance is just well. Its a distance i guess i dunno how to explain. Basicly your rolling to a point were you go on the other side of the opponent and well they block the wrong way obviously. Another way what happens is you put your self into a postion were when the opponent attacks there attack will acctualy pass right through you as you cross them up, thus there attack going the wrong way.



bleh it would probably be more usefull if i knew how to explain it. Basicly its the mix up that will beat all of your opponents attacks when he attacks, and you want to try and cross up with it most likely.




2. throw. ohhh..... OK this is used when the opponent is expecting the hein zan or roll super. So wel they block and you throw there bitch ass. Simple enough eh?



3. down +lkX3 kuu sajin(down up+hp). ok this mix up is pretty important. Ok cuz one way to semi stop the roll throw/super patterns ect is to block high when the opponent roll. Now what happens is when the opponent blocks high they will block the counter attack or if they get thrown they can quickly tech. Theres nothing you can really do about this if the opponent is fast. Of course throwing is a bit safer cuz you wont be punished after words. OK so heres how to stop this. If the opponent is doing this you roll(perferably cross up) then ducking lkX3 to kuu sajin.

Now even if you werent regualraly charged for the whole roll the ducknig lks should give you enough time to complete the charge. Also even if the opponent block the kuu sajin you could try the hou ou kyaku super when you land to fool or whatever. and if you hit well you have all the great mix up after a kuu sajin.


Now what this will do is make your opponent half to block low. Its like exstremtly hard to tech throws if the opponent is ducking. So they should not be able to tech your throws.



4. Roll super. Ok you should only do the hou ou kyaku. and perferably at level 2. simple enough. Since now you have a lot of range you can roll then attack at farther ranges and blah blah. If your having trouble rolling into super when you accidently cross up roll just...



qcb, hcf stutter then mk. You should do the motion a bit early duruing the roll then right when you come hit mk. Now weather or not you crossed up or not you should get it. Just like when trying to dp cross ups stuff like that.




5. Poke strings... You can try poke strings out of the roll also. The usual poke string that i do out of a roll is the down lp stand hp poke strings.... so refer to the strings i listed above.






hmm ok getting very bored here. But anyway this is your mix up. If you are a good guesser you should well. do good.. Mix up with the down X3 lk to stop turtlers from just trying to hold block to block anti air and be able to stop throws.



ok later....

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

Hmmm ok you guys know that one poke string i posted during the begning that did like 70% gaurd meter. Well im dum so apperently i guess if you were in K groove you acctualy do more gaurd meter damage when raged so if you were to do this poke string..


cross up roundhouse, down mk, down down+hk(hold) lp, qcb+hk


On a P or K groove user this litterlay like breaks your gaurd....

INSTANTLY.LOL....



Remember to the only real hole in this poke string is the down down HK to lp. And even then if it was a counter hit it would combo. Thats how little it is.



sigh to bad kim sucks in K. lol =p

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

Hmm okies i got a way to hit the gaurd break sorta.



Ok from all the set ups with the duck+lkX3 then up+hp then you have the tiger knee hishou kyaku then dash over body then throw or level 2 super.


Well for the poke string(perhaps the opponent thinknig you may go super this time so instead of throwing you do a poke string say) duck mk,down down +hk,(hold) lp qcb+k. there goes half there gaurd meter in c groove whatever. im sure in k or p its probably like 80 or some shit.lol



Of course you could also do this from your set ups after the level 2 super this hisou kyaku to fall down quicker then do the poke string.



bleh i know i suck its kinda obvious bu i never thought of doing it i guess.


Any way the poke string owns if you land it since it does so much fucking gaurd meter and is pretty much gauernteed.

[Sleronipt]

Kim is more effective in P groove than most people realize. Hell, most characters are better in P groove than most people realize. Okay, okay, alright; all characters are better than most people realize.

If you think you are a pretty good guesser, then just apply that to P groove. Most of the time parrying isn't even a guess. Parry, and then go into a combo. Very nice.

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

Yawn man im bored so im gonna try and get some shit i said i would do earlier....


IIRC znzf i think... 0_- wanted some strats against P groove blanka.. Well all give just some more specific blanka not just P cuz well i dunno .....



Lets get one thing out of the way though. I hate blanka. For many reasons. One he is a good character. Or well fuck that, the best character. Blanka is garbage im sorry. You see when i enter tournments and all that shit im stupid beacuse i still play with people i think are fun and shit. If they happen to be good well thats great. But blanka i cant see many people like blanka. I mean this dude is fucked up, he isnt even cool. Why is he even good. I mean the game should be balanced and shit. sigh i dunno. I mean i cant complain to much about sagat beacuse he is good, cuz well he should be a strong character and sagat is acctualy cool.


Sigh i dunno ryu should be the best guy fuck this game. Blanka is so fucking stupid.



anyway.....








Poking blanka....
One good thing about blanka is blankas duck even though low(thankfully not as low as it was in other games) isnt low enough to duck under kims stand fierce. Being able to duck under stand fierce is always a bad thing. So this is good. Is still not high enough to get hit by first hit of hangetzan which sucks but you have to take what you have i guess. Anyway this should be a main poke......

BUT. theres a problem blankas duck fierce goes under kims duck fierce. @_@ ok this sucks. So this will fuck you up if you try to use stand fierce to much. So just try to use it in the normal strings i have listed above. And while just pokeing with it be carefull for the random duck fierce from blanka.




Blanka RCs...

OK this shit is cheaty anyway(i know you said P groove but just in case) basicy if some does this there cheating anyway so fuck them. Blanka ball well roll out of the way. Just dont attack it in most cases. lol If he goes for RC electricty this dude is a bastard and kick him in the nuts. That shit is garbage right there. You are not getting out of this easily. (at least i assume that its the start blanka ball cross up you get up to the electricty. Normaly just reversal hein zan or some shit but since hes invicable your fucked...) Just block it. Of course theres always a chance he messed up and well thats a chance i take. cuz fuck that shit. you can roll cuz well you get hit. Super well he would probably beat it.


RC hop hmm i dunno dont worry about that to much. Just makes it do the same thing its supposed to do anyway just better.










Anti air....
ku sajin(down up+hp) is the main one. This will stop his low jumps ect. And the lows jumps wont always be close so this has more horizontal range to help you here. In many cases your on the defensive in this match anyway. So turtleing and waiting for your oppertuinty to hit this move. Right when you see them move or something(or if blanka is low jump straight up and randomly throws up fierce or roundhouse)just hit up +hp. Shouldnt be to hard to do it on reaction at times. If your feeling gnarly and shit you can go for a hou'ou tenbuu kyaku(level 2 or higher) after you anti air blanka wih kuu sajin. But this is some hard timing so i would be carefull. Stand mk is a good normal anti air. For cross up anti airs kim still doesnt have a true move to stop them so roll out of the way or something....






Hmm in air to air battles dont worry. Blanka is fast but kim should beat blankas attacks with jump mk. If blanka zones you with jump straight up you should be able to sj at blanka and jump mk to try and stop this.







Baiting the super (if he has one that is) is a lot like bison(usa) jumping straight up if he supers hishou kyaku to stall your jump for that tiny sec to save you. Also if you are trying to cross up blanka and he supers you could super your self to try and beat him or go through him to save damage. Whatever you want i guess its up to you. Kim should chrage super faster then blanka anyway but its up to you i guess...






Hmm i guess fighting him just use all the strats ive already posted in other parts of the thread. Really the biggest thing is the kuu sajin is a big part of this match if you get the lead turtle and just when ever he does any type of jump do move. he gets closer and tries cross up then roll and run away to the other part of the screen. I dunno just use what i told you and all that other shit earlier i guess.....

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

Hmmmm well since im bored and shit lets like go in depth about all the poke strings i posted when it works/how usefull is it/when doesnt it work and shit like that. All add a few more here and there and stuff and give situtions shit like that. The poke strings are gonna be a bit broken up with comments ect so if you think its to hard to read and you need to see it all togther for a quick reminder look back a couple pages.









1.ducking lk
--1a. standing lp
------1aa. throw


First break off point here. Its pretty obvious. The stand lp is to miss the ducking opponent. Then throw. Kim has pretty decent walking speed, so it doesnt matter that you put in a extra duck lk in the begining. Its fairly usefull if youve been landing alot of cross ups.








--1b. ducking lp
------1ba. tiger knee qcf+k
------------1baa. throw
------------1bab. standing lk
-------------------1baba. ducking roundhouse
-------------------1babb. standing fierce
-------------------1babc. ducking mk cancle to qcb+mk
------------1bac. Random super*
------------1bad. tiger knee qcf+k again
--------------------1bada. Random super*






1ba. Depending on how you time this it could ethier A. wiff. B. hit. The throw part IMHO is exstremly EXSTREMLY risky. @_@ i do not know how this works. Hishou kyaku is punishable in most cases and its just very risky. The throw CAN work though. But its well risky or something. lol


The stand lk part is probably gonna be if you hit with the hishou kyaku. Adds more pressure ect. The stand fierce part of this probably will not be used. The roundhouse miiiiight. but in most cases from this distance i would use the duck mk to qcb+mk. Its a very sloppy looking barage of pokes. But thats not bad nessacarly. Its differnt and its werid to block in a sence. Also remember that stand lk combos to duck mk on counter and this is good.



The 1bac is the random super of the bunch. If you feel they will attack you super. The one below it is the same thing but you do another hishou kyaku. Random super is more likley to hit after the second. As well blocking 2 (in most cases) moves that are punishable will make you want to attack. The hishou kyaku is a good move to use when vs the smaller characters(blocking wise) as most your moves go over them so you have to use this as one of your pokes on them.



Overall these poke strings are for the smaller characters in most cases. Not that they cant be used on bigger but for the most part.










------1bb. ducking lk, standing lk
------------1bba. walk foward standing lk
-------------------1bbaa. ducking roundhouse
------------1bbb. standing fierce
------------1bbc. walk slightly foward ducking mk qcb+mk
------------1bbd. dash in
-------------------1bbda. throw
-------------------1bbdb. start over at 1, 2, or 3.
-------------1bbe. roll
--------------------1bbea. throw
--------------------1bbeb. Random super*




The next walk foward after the first stand foward lk is to keep the pressure on after the string. To attack while moveing. If the counter hit happens thats what the duck mk is there for to combo after the lk. The ducking roundhouse is there to put a end to your attack string and distance your self a bit there. Stand fierce is very good in this chain. But beacuse it doesnt hit all ducking characters low it fucks its usefullness.



after the dash the poke string afterwords is unlikely. If the opponent sees the dash in the first place most times you will get hit before you even get in. If i dash in its usualy to throw. The throw portion of this is good. However in most cases i save the dash throw for moments in the match were we(opponent) and myself are both walking in and out of certain ranges and if i hit a stand lk(hit or blocked) at a acceptable distance i will dash in and throw.



The roll part is pretty self explainatory.


This set of attacks is very good. one of the more used ones. The duck lk,lp,lk, stand lk is just a good poke string with options ect and nice spaceing. Use if often. If the stand feirce hit more opponents ducking it would be really good. but it doesnt so its only good. This is probably your main pattern of sorts.





------1bc. ducking mk
-----------1bca. qcb+mk
------------------1bcaa. standing fierce
------------------1bcab. Random super*
------------------1bcac. roll**
--------------------------1bcaca. down up+hk
--------------------------1bcacb. throw
--------------------------1bcacc. Random super*
-----------1bcb.back foward+mk
------------------1bcba. down up+hk
------------------1bcbb. Random super*
------------------1bcbc. go to 1bcac
-----------1bdc. down down+hk(hold)
------------------1bdca. mp



A fairly common pattern. Though i dont like it much as since hangetzan misses a fair amount of characters at times ducking wise i like to save its usesess for the other less obvious poke strings. The stand fierce after the hangetzan is for when most likely you have the super and the opponent is slightly heisitent on attacking allowing you to tack on another hit. The random super part so if they do attack.



(note on random super parts after hangetzan. You can charge the full time in the hangetzan for a hien zan or kuu sajin. Just do it fast. The motion could be something along the lines of say duck mk qcb d+mk or something hangetzan comes out and you should be able to do your anti air out of it. This saves you the super if you judged wrong. Also if you do the kuu sajin it has deceptive recovery which may allow you to do another anti air or random super from that. )




1bcac. The roll after hangetzan part. Hmmm. Its hard to say weather or not this is good. Its really a tricky thing. Ive been thrown out of it everytime i went for it a few times in a row. And times were it works really good. Strangly enough the hangetzan missing the low ducking charcter is good in this sitution sometimes as when you hit with both hits the roll after hangetzan is a bit easier to see coming beacuse you are pushed farther away of course. just try to guess right i guess.



1bcb. the comet cruncher part is one of the only times i acctualy hit this move. Lol People fall for it in this portion more so then in the other poke strings. Alot of times i do the lk version instead of the mk but its up to you.



The last part the haki kyaku should miss thus the opponent would see you are open and BLAM you hop kick right over that shit. Instinctvly you almost always block low thus the low attack would probably be the first thing to come out.
















More coming........

[JS Master]

yes yes very nice strats...
but how do u counter runaways?? :D

[znzf]

that's a pretty stupid question

u turtle back or rush him of course. theres only two ways of playing .. or i guess "cautiously rushing him down"

lol.

three.

[JS Master]

Originally posted by znzf
that's a pretty stupid question

u turtle back or rush him of course. theres only two ways of playing .. or i guess "cautiously rushing him down"

lol.

three.

yes, but how do u do it with Kim??

[Gunter]

Kim in A-Groove is featured in my latest video.

http://www.namonaki.com/games/tutorials.html

[Akuma_APN]

oh man, My head hurts >_<

As much as I love Kim, and am constantly striving to be better with him, I think this Tutorial is going to take me many, many days to go through.

I don't think I've ever read this much SF in one sitting in my whole life. LOL.

BIG thanks to Final Showdown. This is awesome stuff!

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

Im gonna skip the second part of the poke stuff right to the 3 cuz all do/add more switch stance stuff after.....






3.ducking lp, standing hp
--3a. qcb+lk
------3aa. standing lk
-----------3ab. ducking mk qcb+mk
----------------3aba. standing hp
----------------3abb. Random super*




The hangetzan part of this does not combo. Makes alotta since how a hp doesnt combo into qcb+lk but a duck mk does eh? riiiiiight. anyway. So if for some reason the opponent tried to sweep or something beacuse they saw a opening you hit them. Of course if they saw the opening and shoryuken or something. well your fucked. The other stuff should be fairly self explainatory from what i said earlier in the thread.




-----------3ac. ducking roundhouse
-----------3ad. standing fierce
------3ab. tiger knee qcf+k
------------3aba. throw
------------3abb. go to 3aa.
------------3abc. Random super*




As you can see im adding alot of moves after the hangetzan here. Its the short one so its less obivous as the common strings like duck lk,lp,mk stuff. So you might be able to get these in if you feel so. The 3ab stuff then go back to the 3aa is just about though the only one i use in this piticular set. I would say about 75% of the time i do a qcb+lk i will go to 3ab then probably lean towards 3aa or the random super part. The tiger knee qcf+k should beat a sweep or low attack that the opponent may try to do (depending on how high you tiger knee how high there low attack is). Then just contiune hit or not. This does alotta gaurd damage. It has a lot of wholes but your doing alot of shit. The most time i get hit from this is acctualy if the sweep is to high for the hishou kyaku to go over.



Sorta on topic sorta. But for style points punishing low attacks with hishou kyaku and the super version is always nice if you do it on reaction. =p





------3ac. standing fierce
------3ad. ducking roundhouse
------3ae. go to 1bcac
------3af. ducking mk
-----------3afa. qcb+mk
-----------3afb. back foward+hk
-----------------3afc. then do one of the options after 1bcb
--3b. down down+hk(hold)
------3ba. hp
------3bb. mp





hmm more stuff to do trying to hope that the opponent doesnt attack you from the qcb+lk. 3ae is the roll series of the string. The 3af part is sorta differnt you could get a few hangetzans in the poke strings or a hangetzan thats basicly going into a comet cruncher. It looks differnt but it has some pretty punishble stuff(depending on how your rangeing things. and comet cruncher is pretty hard to space to make it even remotely safe at times.)


at the end we have the switch stance stuff. Lets forget that for just a sec as all try to put the switch stance stuff all togther for you.

















1.duck lp, stand hp, down down+hk(hold)
--1a. lk
--1b. lp
-----1ba. qcb+k
-----1bb. down down+hk(hold)
-----------1bba. hp
-----------1bbb. mp
-----------1bbc. mk
-----------1bbd. lk
--1c. mk
-----1ca. duck hk
-----1cb. duck mk qcb+mk
-----1cc. qcb,hcf+hk (level 3 if on counter hit level 2 will work)
--1d. mp
--1e. hp
2.F+hk(hold)
--2a. infintie command
------2aa. mk
------------2aaa. ducking roundhouse
------2ab. lp into back foward+hk
------------4aba. then do one of the options after 1bcb(from earlier in the thread.)















OK now lets break them down.......





1.duck lp, stand hp, down down+hk(hold)
--1a. lk
--1b. lp
-----1ba. qcb+k
-----1bb. down down+hk(hold)
-----------1bba. hp
-----------1bbb. mp
-----------1bbc. mk
-----------1bbd. lk




ok this is all you need. lol This is the most usefull. let alone lets get rid of 1a the lk. Its just the way it ran. Anyway the lk is well not that good. The lk is good like at max max range. Beacuse it like flows really well. Into random super of course. =p stand roundhouse then lk is what i do when i do this. Nothing much else with this as theres usualy better things to do.

anyway at the lp to qcb+k is fucking deadly. landing a cross up hk, to just duck lp,stand hp, down down+hk(hold) lp qcb+mk or hk does insane amounts of gaurd damge. against P or K you literaly have just broken there gaurd near abouts. And if your raged in K and are vs P groove you have. This is super good poke string. And against a character with a acceptable low block(like they cant duck under the first hit of the hangetzan) there is only one place to even get out of this(the lp from the foot stomp) making it pretty realible to use. Also the the priorty on the lp from the stance is pretty nice beating alot of attacks. If you happen to land this whole string you did a whole lot of damage(im saying like if you hit with the string and didnt cancle the foot stomp into a super and the opponent happens to try and attack the lp and you hit with it into the qcb+k. It does good amount of dizzy and damage.)



Ok were at 1bb now. Another foot stomp. This is acctualy pretty good. You must consider that kims lp out of switch stance is kims really only hp worth of stun move he has(cancle out of wise at least). So the stun is pretty acceptable to let you do these strings. Anyway kims hp from the switch stance is pretty good. It hits more ducking opponents like ryu ducking then the hangetzan does. So unless it is a realy small block you should be pretty safe when using it. Its also a high move so against the shoryuken type moves that arnt invincable you have to do a hard version of the move to beat it clean in most cases. So genraly the opponent probably would to the jab or short version of there counter since well your on the ground.


The mp is the hop kick. It has more range so if the thrust kick would miss the opponent and you feel the top down attack is to slow use this. You can controll weather or not to go backwards or fowards ect. For whatever reason i find this is a good move if the opponent rolls as if the opponent rolls the hop kick is ususaly ok and you can block after there roll or throw them. shrug. Then again if its a fast roll your probably fucked.


The top down attack portion acctauly can be used like the hop kick. From this distance the mk acctuacly beats in alot of cases the other characters sweep attacks or whatever. If you do hit with this you can link a level 3 hou ou kyaku after words. If it hits on counter hit(like you beat a low attack with it) you are fairly free to combo with it after like duck mk to qcb+k whatever. Of course with this poke string youve pushed your self pretty far out for using this move sometimes so you may not be in range for the regualr attack and may have to just use a super. Another thing would be that this attack does hit low so if for some reason the tried the feirce or roundhouse version of there counter you would hit them out of it.(unless they were invincable say like a shoryuken ect.) Say if you were vs rock or terry say and they do rise tackle. Well you will hit them and they should stick to the ground allowing you to combo. Of course like ive said your pretty far away at some points so use your judgement.



The lk portion is better here then it was just all alone by its lonesome. but still in most cases there are better things to do.






--1c. mk
-----1ca. duck hk
-----1cb. duck mk qcb+mk
-----1cc. qcb,hcf+hk (level 3 if on counter hit level 2 will work)
--1d. mp
--1e. hp



If i do the switch stance stuff and i dont choose to use a the lp into an hangetzan or another switch stance these are the moves i would use. The mk is the top down attack and from this distance you probably wont be beating the low attacks but you might beat the counter attack. The hop kick is well a hop kick. I would probably go backwords when i do it. Or well maybe foward. Or well..... I dunno i just guess which way to go i guess. lol Anyway like i said earlier this is good beacuse i GUESS it has good recovery or something. As its ok when the opponent rolls it seems. shrug. Anyway ok i lied i dont use the hp from this place though. So if i do it this close i wouldnt go for the hp probably.











Quick overview and notes sinces theres alotta shit happning in a small space. I ususaly just go with the lp to foot stomp to hp/ and the lp to hangetzan in many cases. Not many times do i do the other stuff. Also i hardly ever use the switch stance that doesnt go to a lp out of it. That is to say stuff what i just wrote above me. i usualy start with the duck lp, to stand hp also as its faster then the duck mk. So i get into the strings faster. Remember the second foot stomp if you do it misses, so dont look werid on it. Its acctualy good.




On a important note sorta. Since these all gaurd break pretty fast when you are apply pressure ect. If you happen to gaurd break in the first foot stomp the lp to foot stomp again does combo since the opponent wont be pushed away from the first foot stomp. So you can fairly easily go into the super. (the lp to foot stomp cancle to super that is) So its always nice when you do that. Also i guess remember that you can cancle the foot stomp to the super at any time so doing the lp, stand hp, foot stomp should give you amply time to realize if you were hitting or not to see if you should cancle or not. So its not like a short on reaction super if you see what im saying. Cross up roundhouse, duck lp, stand hp, foot stomp, level 1 hou ou kyaku. does a nice bit of damage for a level 1.



anyway................ back on track i guess.

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

2.F+hk(hold)
--2a. infintie command
------2aa. mk
------------2aaa. ducking roundhouse
------2ab. lp into back foward+hk
------------4aba. then do one of the options after 1bcb(from earlier in the thread.)





heres was a example of useing the infinte in your poke strings. I NEVER DO THIS. LOL ok well i shouldnt say never. but if i do i would do it in most cases this(only other times i do the infinite with out hitting is sometimes if i foot stomp a long range fireball all do another one to move a bit quicker up again. Or if i time my lp to another foot stomp in the more above strings sometimes i try to do it manualy to make me in the foot stomp still.)




Its basicly a lot of high low high low type shit. Its defintly differnt looking. 0_- Its a bit differnt to time however. But if you time it right it should come out pretty fast. (that is the foot stomp after the top down attack) Note if i do go for this i usualy just end it with the sweep. Its really nice if you pull this all off. Its just that the top down attack is pretty slow. sigh. =/ ways to go for this is to well if the opponent is well turtleing. Or well after a cross up go for this when they block low. Of coruse. Its a tad slow to say. The comet cruncher after this should be timed so after the lp hits you do it. Hmm you can get the full charge in so unlike say you do a charge regular like hit with the move then hit the Foward+k at the same time. Wait for the move to hit then pause then cancle. The lp out of switch stance gives you enough time to cancle this so dont try to do it to fast or you didnt get a long enough charge in.





Anyway i hardly ever use this. But i wont say ive never use it if that makes any sence.

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

Hmmmm one thing i did forget to add though about the poke string with the duck lp, stand hp, qcb+lk another reason this is more valuble against the littler characters is the first hit of the hangetzan will hit even though there a small character so thats good.







As for poke strings against the bigger characters i wont really write a chart on that. I mean theres some varitions like on the main patter instead of duck lk,lp,lk, stand lk you could get another duck lk in there for 5 hits instead of 4. You could also walk stand jab walk stand jab. Or you could say do walk stand jab walk stand jab duck mp, stand fierce or some shit. or you could poke with stand mk a bit more freely as it will hit them ducking and in case say they were to low jump you hit that before it even started. All in all no really reason to go to much into stuff like this. As the strings i posted earlier will do just fine. and you dont really have to worry about stuff like this as it gives you no real advantage then the others do.





















Gunter..... Hey can kim OTG with his haki kyaku in A groove? dunno just seems like he stomps and shit so i dunno. shrug seems like it could work some how i guess. Since some other characters have moves that do i dont see any reason why kims foot stomp of all things couldnt.











JS master....
hmmm depends are we talking about mai(=P) or rolento? I guess i could go into character specific shit if you wanted...

[ETP]

This is a really amazing thread. Thank you Final Shodown for all the great work. Sorry about replying in the other kim thread by mistake. It was the one in the sticky thread (Why isnt this one in that sticky thread. This is soooo much better).

I am incredibly impressed by how detailed, and useful the info in here is. Just a shame i have to switch grooves now ( i was N groove Kim/Geese/Sagat) but the C groove stuff is too cool to overlook, and the low jumping is making the tiger kneeing impossible for me. Is tiger kneeing the air special even possible with a low jump groove? or just alot more difficult?

I found a couple clips on #gamecombos "finalshodown-final1" and "finalshodown-final2", i assumed these are of you ?(has your nick, and the guy plays kim, but i want to be sure)

I would kill for the names of any other vids featuring your kim playing, or for that matter, some of the more insane combos you have mentioned, and so would, i assume, everyone else looking to see some of your advanced strats in action.

Lastly, im having some trouble getting your bread and butter combos to connect, the c.lk, c.lp, c.mp, qcb+mk and the c.lk x3, d,u+HP. I end up getting pushed too far away for the c.mp to connect in the first example, and for the d,u+hp in the second example. Im sure im just misunderstanding something here. Any help connecting them would be much appreciated.


Once again, thanks for the thread

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

hmm not to sure of match videos that i would be in. I had a combo video awhile ago though. so maybe one of those would be it or something. lol dont worry about vids dude. lol nothing that good of me would be there since the only vid of me i could think of was a year or so ago. and any recent ones i dont like people to tape me playing as i hate the arcade as everything seems to have 360 joy sticks and i cant even block on those peices of shit.






anyway tiger knee is possible with low jump but its just like way harder. Like if i was in N groove i could use it still a possible(and fairly cool looking as well) combo would be say cross up hk, duck lp, stand hp, qcfX2+HK, down up+lp, tiger knee qcf+k X3, then air super.

Of course you would need full meter for that, oh well....
anyway i cant tiger knee everytime with low jump but then again i dont play much Of the low jump grooves cuz its to diff from KoF.



as for bread and butter well you wrote duck mp at the end which well that has less range then duck mk so that would be a problem right there. if your having trouble comboing the qcb+k after the duck+mk it might be beacuse the other character is to small to be hit by the first hit of the attack.

Like i say somewere in the thread though just use the duck lkX3 to down up+hp as its much better. as for your trouble with it, cant help you much on this one its pretty simple so you must be doing something wrong timing wise maybe i dunno. shrug. Just practice i guess cuz its pretty easy.

[TRANCEADICT]

ok i got a quest in my mind..on a MEM vid he demonstrated
a C groove combo in wich KIM'S opp was hit by a super
qcf,qcf k.then he quickly jumped up to qcfk...basically
how do keep on hit'em him,cuz after the qcf k in the air i
screw up..how do u keep on hitting ure opp..??

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

you just keep doing the qcf+k with a tiger knee type motion. so its sorta like qcf f/u+k. Or 2369+k. so your sorta rolling the fireball motion to up and press kick.

[TRANCEADICT]

thanxxx's i'll make sure to practice it as soon as i get out
of this prison..aka skool..:lol:

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

heres something i found sorta ironic kinda shitty. =/ dunno anyways...


im sure if anyone remember around the time i made the first kim thread a year ago(it was acctualy over a year ago but i talked about it about a year ago in the thread) in K groove(in can be in P also but i choose to do the examples with K... though note i think my rock thread is around some were and i talk about it with him in P groove) you can make your moves semi unpunishable. Or give them better recovery. with K kim i was basicly useing the bread and butter combo of duck lk,lp, mk to qcb+k. Now normaly this is punishable but with K groove you can make it less if you JD right after the hangetzan. Since you really dont have that little animation of going to block you just block instantly the attack. This saves you from being hit from attacks after it or fast delayed blocking supers. This makes this piticular pattern much better since I problem with it is that you can be hit after it basicly(granted if you do the mk hangetzan you are safer and only supers should hit you or throws. But for the hk version you are punishable by faster type normals cough cammys duck mk cough.). lol so it was usualy better to just use the down lkX3 to down up+hp.





anyway i also talked of patterns with rock his main pattern of down lk,lp,mk, qcb+lp stuff like that in my rock thread were ever that is about how that is reallly mean in P groove ect.








so yeah i talked about this along time ago i guess. Anyway I guess in the latest arcadia magizine (i was at http://www.planetps2.com/mmcafe/ when i read it. Go to the bulliten board and its somewere in there.) they acctualy talked about this. and i guess they are calling it moomins gaurd or mu-mingu gaurd something to that exstent.


anyway i just thought it was kinda weird. i mean didnt i talk about this a year ago and now its in a magizine just now talking about it? :lol: shrug kinda gay. Oh well.... =/

[Cantrip]

If u wanna see something evil try this gaurd technique with M.Bison with his BnB scissor kicks combo. The best part about this is his kicks put u outside the range of most characters lp n lks which means they have to try a heavier move and u have a better chance retaliating after the JD. If u use K grooves hold charge function u can scissor kicks again a 1/2sec after the JD. Speaking of rock, this combined with his crazy empty jumps makes for a wierd match.

[ben]

If u wanna see something evil try this gaurd technique with M.Bison with his BnB scissor kicks combo. The best part about this is his kicks put u outside the range of most characters lp n lks which means they have to try a heavier move and u have a better chance retaliating after the JD. If u use K grooves hold charge function u can scissor kicks again a 1/2sec after the JD. Speaking of rock, this combined with his crazy empty jumps makes for a wierd match.

what does any of that have to do with kim strats and tactics?