ken and shinku hadoken?

[CrotchMonkey]

i always wondered about ken and if he has the ability to do shinku hadoken. can he do it but instead prefers his shoryuken style or was it something he didnt learn?

[Skyler]

im pretty sure Ken can actually shoot out a shinkuu hadouken, but if your gonna give ken a shinkuu hadouken, then you might as well give Ryu a shinryuken.

[ax0r]

im pretty sure Ken can actually shoot out a shinkuu hadouken, but if your gonna give ken a shinkuu hadouken, then you might as well give Ryu a shinryuken.

he already has a Shin Shoryuken. :tup: :tup:

[Sano]

Ryu and Ken learned the basic three moves that you all know. The varitations of them are those they taught themselves through training.

Ken won't get a Shinkuu Hadouken ever because Capcom of Japan wishes to give Ryu the edge in power since he's Japanese and all. Stronger ki/chi manipulation is how they show this. That's why Nash is stronger than Guile since he can weild a Sonic Boom with one hand even though he has the ankles of a baby and Guile doesn't. Nash isn't Japanese however, but Ki maipulation is how you know that he's stronger than Guile.

Ken specializes in Dragon Punches, Ryu specializes in Fireballs. However, Ryu's Shin Shoryuken has been stated to have the ability to kill a man while Ken's has never been. It's Ryu's game, he will always have the edge over Ken even in the Shoryuken department storyline wise.

More accurately, if Ken learns the Shinkuu Hadouken, Ryu will learn the Super Dooper Shinkuu Hadouken that will be the size of Final Vega's(Cape) SFZ3 Psycho Crusher.

[CrotchMonkey]

wow thats pretty disheartening to hear haha

[Sagatryu]

But you forget Sano if Ryu learns the Super Dooper Shinkuu Hadouken then Sagat will learn the Super Dopper Tiger Cannon!

Oh and lets not forget about Akuma's Ultra Mega Super Dooper Metsu Gou Hadouken
:rofl:

[Sano]

But you forget Sano if Ryu learns the Super Dooper Shinkuu Hadouken then Sagat Will learn the Super Dopper Tiger Cannon!

Oh and lets not forget about Akuma's Ultra Mega Super Dooper Metsu Gou Hadouken
:rofl:

Yeah, that about sums it up! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Higher-Jin]

Ryu and Ken learned the basic three moves that you all know. The varitations of them are those they taught themselves through training.

Ken won't get a Shinkuu Hadouken ever because Capcom of Japan wishes to give Ryu the edge in power since he's Japanese and all. Stronger ki/chi manipulation is how they show this. That's why Nash is stronger than Guile since he can weild a Sonic Boom with one hand even though he has the ankles of a baby and Guile doesn't. Nash isn't Japanese however, but Ki maipulation is how you know that he's stronger than Guile.

Ken specializes in Dragon Punches, Ryu specializes in Fireballs. However, Ryu's Shin Shoryuken has been stated to have the ability to kill a man while Ken's has never been. It's Ryu's game, he will always have the edge over Ken even in the Shoryuken department storyline wise.

More accurately, if Ken learns the Shinkuu Hadouken, Ryu will learn the Super Dooper Shinkuu Hadouken that will be the size of Final Vega's(Cape) SFZ3 Psycho Crusher.

If he's so strong...

then why is he dead?



Ken has shot a shinkuu hadouken in a real game.

marvel vs. streetfighter do a double team with ryu and ken with ryu (?) on point and see what happens.

Ken can shoot it only if capcom says he can it could be for any reason why he can or can't do it, or he chooses not to use it.

I'd say he developed the dragon punch, ryu developed the hadouken and akuma developed the hurricane kick.

I mean what are they each known for? Akuma has his dive kicks, air fireballs but he's always known for having a hurricane kick with juggle potential.

Even in mvc2, ryu has the biggest fireball, akuma is the only one with any kind of sparks on his legs and ken has flames on his uppercut and is the only one who is completely invincible even in his jab uppercut.

I think the "Versus" series was a look at how developed their powers would be, they had to pump them up anyways because if they didn't they couldn't compete with the marvel crew.

Still look at cammy's cannon drill (it looks a little ilke a psycho crusher)

most sfers have a enhanced attack of one way or another, zangief has a walking final atomic buster and charlie and guile shoot blades from their flash kicks (although their sonic boom remains the same but it seems for less charge time)

I think they all just specialized in their own attack.

and Sean was supposed to be the "Mix up" shoto without being the incredlbly fragile yet very powerful rush down akuma like character.

and Dan is the snk shoto of course.

I always wondered what a "versus" sagat , "versus" vega, "versus" blanka and all of them would look like in a versus game cuz i'm almost sure they were still made to character and maybe they were at a peek on how they'd develop.

[Sagatryu]

About M.Bison

Take from the Plot Guide

During SFA3, M. Bison is supposed to be extremely powerful. Due to how
much the official storyline of SFA3 differs from various aspects of the
game's portrayal (Mainly, Bison dying in EVERYONES' ending), the game does
a horrible job of showing this. In actuality, Bison managed to fight Ken
and Sakura, then finally had to retreat when Ken, Sakura, Sagat, and Ryu
(who had broken out of his brainwashing) all ganged up on him, then he ran
into Rose and had to beat her, then he had to terminate Juli, Juni, Cammy,
and the rest of the Dolls, and all thirteen of them attacked him, forcing
him to retreat from them (But not before almost killing all of them), then
he had to deal with Charlie and Guile, and he -FINALLY- was taken down when
his entire base and the Psycho Drive blew up with him in it, thanks to
Charlie. And all this in a very short time frame (Rose most likely took
place shortly before Cammy because Bison told Rose that he was waiting for
someone, whom was most likely Cammy, and Guile blowing up Shadaloo's base
took place shortly after because Chun-Li most likely spotted Cammy in the
base heading for the Psycho Drive).

The Psycho drive can channel any negative energy or emotions. But
Bison can get more from fighters. Bison blows up because his current body
couldn't handle any more Psycho Power. When the Psycho Drive blows up, all
the energy stored in there gets released. The released energy goes to
Bison's body, Bison's body can't take it and *BOOM*


M. Bison is weaker during SF2 (no teleports or flight, etc.
Storylinewise, not gameplaywise) likely because by having his soul whole
again instead of just the evil half, his psycho power isn't anywhere near
as powerful as during SFA3. Psycho Power relies on negative energy.
Because Bison merged with Rose at the end of SFA3, he's no longer fully
negative since Rose was his soul's good half. He's also weaker probably
because he doesn't have the Psycho Drive anymore, what with it being blown
up and all.


Shadaloo, or what was left of it, eventually constructed
a new body for him by SF2 (not a very difficult task for them, since
they've done it before. See Cammy). He transferred to that body from
Rose's, and, despite his new body being weaker than the old, held the SF2
tournament to get revenge on Guile, Chun-Li, and many others of his enemies
by sending out personal invitations to them (this would also make it easy
for him to get all his enemies into one place and destroy them). There, he
finally got killed when Akuma, who wasn't even signed into the tournament,
jumped in randomly and used the Shun Goku Satsu on him at the final fight
of tournament [Official]. M. Bison's ending, being the bad ending, is
probably the only ending in SF2 which didn't happen in any way, shape, or
form.


About the Shun Goku Satsu

What happens during the shungokusatsu is that they go to hell. The
demons in hell will attack the person even if they're sin free or not.
They're demons, they'll go at anything. But with evil characters, their
past sins will also haunt on top of the demons attacking them for that
split second. Gen survives this because he empties his spirit, heart and
mind. "Onore wo mu ni suru". "Mu" means emptiness, nothingness. One of the
reasons why Gouken has the kanji "Mu" on his back. It's really not about
how strong the person is but how tuned and focused they are with their mind
and soul.


oh the explosion was the Equivalent to a small nuke!

[Sano]

If he's so strong...

then why is he dead?



Ken has shot a shinkuu hadouken in a real game.

marvel vs. streetfighter do a double team with ryu and ken with ryu (?) on point and see what happens.



Ryu is not dead. Unless this is a joke that's going over my head at the moment, this info I suppose comes from the unnoficial Ryu Manga. And he does not die in that Manga. The 'grave' at the end was used to mark the battle between him and Gouki. He appears to Alex at the end, he is not a ghost. Through his training with Oro, he has learned to heal himself just enough to survive, hence the scar.

X-Men vs. SF and all the Marvel games are unnoficial Games. Whatever happens in them does not count. Much like the Marvel Comics themselves will never reference it. Capcom gave the SFers more powerful moves so they can hang with the X-Men and Marvel Super Heroes. Do you think Zangief can turn into a robot aka Mech Zangief as well or has the potential to do so? Do you think Ken has Orochi Blood because he has it in SVC Chaos? A quote from the Movie 'Street Fight Club' - "The first rule about crossover games when discussing the characters seriously is we do not talk about crossover games!" :rofl: Seriously, you can look at the SF Eternal Challenge guide and turn to page 191. Those are the moves and super moves that Ken can officially do, the gist of it anyways. Crossover game moves are not included. No Shinkuu Hadouken for Ken.

[RagingStorm101]

.

I always wondered what a "versus" sagat , "versus" vega, "versus" blanka and all of them would look like in a versus game cuz i'm almost sure they were still made to character and maybe they were at a peek on how they'd develop.

Uh...play CVS2 lol.

[CrotchMonkey]

Uh...play CVS2 lol.
haha good idea

[Cho]

If Shinku Hadoken equals greater power as someone sort of said, then by that Sakura is more powerful then Ken as well, who also taught herself the Shinku Haddoken.

I just took it as Ken done his own thing and developed his own style, more flashy and showing off sort of thing. He probably could do a shinku hadoken if he was cornered and had to do it but he's got his own way now.

Also I was sure someone on here pointed out once Ken is actually mostly Japanese himself, and actually colours his hair blond cause he such an American fanboy or something? So its not like Ryu being japanese is why capcom wanted him stronger. If thats true, of course.

[Psycho_Ryu]

If Shinku Hadoken equals greater power as someone sort of said, then by that Sakura is more powerful then Ken as well, who also taught herself the Shinku Haddoken.

I just took it as Ken done his own thing and developed his own style, more flashy and showing off sort of thing. He probably could do a shinku hadoken if he was cornered and had to do it but he's got his own way now.

Also I was sure someone on here pointed out once Ken is actually mostly Japanese himself, and actually colours his hair blond cause he such an American fanboy or something? So its not like Ryu being japanese is why capcom wanted him stronger. If thats true, of course.
sakura isnt stronger, she just followed ryu's style a little and developed her style, and ken created his own style with his shoryuken's, as what ryu did with his hadouken.

[TAS]

If Shinku Hadoken equals greater power as someone sort of said, then by that Sakura is more powerful then Ken as well, who also taught herself the Shinku Haddoken.


In the SF Universe all someone has to do to learn a move is just see it preformed, and just cause Sakura can do a Shinku Hadouken dosnt mean she's more powerful then Ken, it just obviously means that she mimiced Ryu's power style, but she infact lacks actual power herself, so all her moves are weak, tbus she is not stronger then Ken in anyway.

If he's so strong...

then why is he dead?


If you're talking about Charlie, then it dosnt matter how powerful he was, his fate was sealed since SF2. Capcom knew Charlie was going to have to die when they made first officialy created him for SFA, thats why he dies in every single one of his SFA endings, plus he went out in a cool way, fighting the most powerful version of Bison all by himself, destroying the Psycho Drive, the Shadowloo base, as well as Bison (or so he thought Bison would've died)

Thats actually a pretty retarded question overall, as much as all Guile's SF2 stories, endings, whatever mentioned that Charlie was dead, and SFA3 takes place before SF2, and whatever, so really what kinda question was that? His death was unavoidable.

[CrotchMonkey]

Also I was sure someone on here pointed out once Ken is actually mostly Japanese himself, and actually colours his hair blond cause he such an American fanboy or something? So its not like Ryu being japanese is why capcom wanted him stronger. If thats true, of course.
i heard something like hes 1/4 or half japanese or something like that. i dont know much about it.

[TAS]

i heard something like hes 1/4 or half japanese or something like that. i dont know much about it.

He's 3/4 Japanese. His mom is (completely) Japanese and his dad his 1/2 Japanese, and Ken dyes/bleaches his blonde to look more American.

[Higher-Jin]

I never said the vs. game were cannon.

Of course only the official games cannon.

but i heard a big deal happened over cammy in xvsf cuz she wasn't written in character so i think you can look to vs. games at least to see something about the characters.

I was referring to charlie about being dead

They were saying that master ki with one arm means his superior or soemthing.

Isn't it possible that maybe it's just cuz it looks better/ it's charlie's style.

I always thought charlie and guile were pretty equal *shrug* cannon wise anyways.

[Sagatryu]

Take From the Plot Guide

The Sonic Boom is actually created by using ki. Nash will concentrate
his ki into his hand, arm or whatever and thrusts it at a speed faster than
sound. When someone is hit by the Sonic Boom, it'll feel like getting
smashed into a brick wall. It's also colder than Russia's winter and is
also supposed to be the fastest projectile story-wise. The games don't show
this at all though.

Tier 3

Charlie: Charlie is the US Martial Arts champion. Took down Bison in
SFA3, albeit with a little help. What mainly puts him here with certainty
instead of circumstantiality though I believe is how he's better than Guile
(even SF2 Guile). Charlie's ki manipulation is implied to be right up
there with Ryu and other top-notch fighters. He can shoot sonic booms from
any of his limbs, even his feet (something that Guile needs LOTS of
concentration to do. It takes Guile two hands and officially stated all
his focus just to throw one sonic boom). Since Guile, at least based on
what we can think of, comes into the tier below, and Charlie is definately
above Guile, even without the circumstantial evidence, we can generally
place Charlie in this tier.



Tier 4

Guile: Most likely winner of the SF2 tournament. If you decide to ignore
that, then there's also the way in how he's storyline-wise more interwoven
and more 'important' than most of the other SF2 characters, and they
typically get favored in the storyline power tiers. And I believe he's
meant to be the same power as Chun-Li, but I forget^^; Whatever the case,
he's been training really hard since SFA3, though Charlie in SFA3 was still
most likely better than him (see Charlie in Tier 3 for reasons). He isn't
progressing any more because he gave up fighting after SF2 to be a family
man.

Zangief vs. Ivan Drago ( winner Zangief)
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=15278&highlight=Zangief

Buffy vs. Zangief ( winner Zangief)
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=1851&page=1&pp=15&highlight=Zangief

Akuma,Gill and SFA3 M.bison vs the X-men ( it was a close Match but the Winners were Akuma,Gill and SFA3 M.Bison)



http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=7068&page=1&pp=15&highlight=Zangief


Turk vs. ryu, ken , chun li , guile , zangief , blanka , vega , sagat , m. bison , shin akuma , kairi garuda

Winners ( Everyone Expect Turk)










http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=29529&highlight=Akuma


Gill vs. Ranma ( Winner Gill )




http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=22279&highlight=Akuma


Akuma vs Grey Hulk ( Winner Akuma due to the Shungokusatsu he wouldn't have won this match if it wasn't for that move!)




http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=21854&highlight=Akuma


Spider-Man vs Akuma and M. Bison ( Winner M.bison and Akuma)









http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=21222&highlight=Akuma


Captain America/Daredevil vs Ryu/Ken ( Winners Ryu/Ken )













http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=14779&highlight=Akuma

Ranma, Kenshin and Vash vs. Gill ( Winner Gill)


http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=7298&highlight=Akuma



Akuma vs. Ranma ( Winner Akuma )


http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=1927&highlight=Akuma


SFer,Mortal Kombat and Tekken and SC vs. Racoon city ( winners SFers, The Motral Kombat guys , the Tekken Guys and The SC Guys )




http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=19435&highlight=M.bison

[Higher-Jin]

Take From the Plot Guide

The Sonic Boom is actually created by using ki. Nash will concentrate
his ki into his hand, arm or whatever and thrusts it at a speed faster than
sound. When someone is hit by the Sonic Boom, it'll feel like getting
smashed into a brick wall. It's also colder than Russia's winter and is
also supposed to be the fastest projectile story-wise. The games don't show
this at all though.

Tier 3

Charlie: Charlie is the US Martial Arts champion. Took down Bison in
SFA3, albeit with a little help. What mainly puts him here with certainty
instead of circumstantiality though I believe is how he's better than Guile
(even SF2 Guile). Charlie's ki manipulation is implied to be right up
there with Ryu and other top-notch fighters. He can shoot sonic booms from
any of his limbs, even his feet (something that Guile needs LOTS of
concentration to do. It takes Guile two hands and officially stated all
his focus just to throw one sonic boom). Since Guile, at least based on
what we can think of, comes into the tier below, and Charlie is definately
above Guile, even without the circumstantial evidence, we can generally
place Charlie in this tier.



Tier 4

Guile: Most likely winner of the SF2 tournament. If you decide to ignore
that, then there's also the way in how he's storyline-wise more interwoven
and more 'important' than most of the other SF2 characters, and they
typically get favored in the storyline power tiers. And I believe he's
meant to be the same power as Chun-Li, but I forget^^; Whatever the case,
he's been training really hard since SFA3, though Charlie in SFA3 was still
most likely better than him (see Charlie in Tier 3 for reasons). He isn't
progressing any more because he gave up fighting after SF2 to be a family
man.


http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=15278&highlight=Zangief


http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=1851&page=1&pp=15&highlight=Zangief

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=7068&page=1&pp=15&highlight=Zangief

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=29529&highlight=Akuma

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=22279&highlight=Akuma


http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=21854&highlight=Akuma

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=21222&highlight=Akuma

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=14779&highlight=Akuma

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=7298&highlight=Akuma

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=1927&highlight=Akuma

wow that's amazing.

Can you please put in the tiers and all the characters? (or a link to somewhere that has it?)

That was a interesting read i never even knew charlie was the martial arts champ.

Would he beat any of the big name characters? (Sagat, Ryu, Ken ect.)

[Sano]

I never said the vs. game were cannon.

Of course only the official games cannon.

but i heard a big deal happened over cammy in xvsf cuz she wasn't written in character so i think you can look to vs. games at least to see something about the characters.

I was referring to charlie about being dead

They were saying that master ki with one arm means his superior or soemthing.

Isn't it possible that maybe it's just cuz it looks better/ it's charlie's style.

I always thought charlie and guile were pretty equal *shrug* cannon wise anyways.

Yeah, I actually didn't know who you were taking about but TAS caught on that you meant Nash so...

If you SERIOUSLY wish to discuss the vs. Games even though they should be left out of this conversation -

Ken can do a Shinkuu Hadouken only with a partner. This is the equivalent of someone performing a double Fireball Move with Batsu in Rival Schools as a Partner. Both Kis are added to each other, think of the Double Hadouken shown in the SF2 Animated Movie, which is probably the influence of all of these double fireball moves and such.

Ryu in MVC1 can TURN into Ken and do everything he does and then turn into Gouki and do everything he does. So if you think the Marvel games are an indication of anything which they are not-

Ryu and Ken officially

Ryu > Ken

Ryu and Ken in the Marvel World, in their latest stages, that being MVC1 when they're oldest -

Ryu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ken

Now let's please stop talking about unnoficial games. They don't belong in this conversation.

[Higher-Jin]

Okkkay

i'm pretty sure mvc1 was just a dream though.

It wouldn't suprise me of ken could do a weak shinkuu hadouken though and i doubt he was "feeding off" ryu's ki in order to do it with him.

[Sano]

Okkkay

i'm pretty sure mvc1 was just a dream though.

It wouldn't suprise me of ken could do a weak shinkuu hadouken though and i doubt he was "feeding off" ryu's ki in order to do it with him.

MVC1 just a dream? Yes, the same way X-Men vs. SF, MSH vs. SF, MVC1 and MVC2 were all dreams - dream matches.

[TAS]

but i heard a big deal happened over cammy in xvsf cuz she wasn't written in character so i think you can look to vs. games at least to see something about the characters.

Shadowloo Cammy first made her appearence in XvSF, and fans liked her so much, she became canon, nothing else to it.

The only other time in the VS games where Capcom has leaned or hinted at somehting that could be canon, was Sakura eventually having a son, other then that there was nothing else. ALL of the VS endings in the Marvel games were either meant to be fun/humorous or shocking (fights, appearences, etc)

i never even knew charlie was the martial arts champ.

Charlie was the US Martial Arts Champion before Ken, but Charlie didnt compete the first year Ken won (which was during SF1) and every year after that Ken has won (very easily I might add)

Would he beat any of the big name characters? (Sagat, Ryu, Ken ect.)

He could've beat Ryu and Ken during the Alpha timeline, dont know about Sagat.

Okkkay

i'm pretty sure mvc1 was just a dream though.


You're no doubt refering to Ken's ending in MSHvsSF where he dreamed the whole storyline.

But no, it wasnt a dream, specialy considering Ken's ending in the game before (XvSF) was Ken and Mel playing XvSF the video game.

The Marvel Vs games have their OWN SEPERATE canon, just like the SFEX series, note how Ryu and Cyclops met in XvSF and then showed that they still knew one another in MSHvSF.

[Sano]

Ryu does a Shinkuu Hadouken by himself in the Marvel Games.

Ken can ONLY do it with a partner.

If you think in those games Ken can do it by himself, that's fine, your opinion, but there is nothing to back that claim up other than opinion. What you would need to back it up is Ken performing a Shinkuu Hadouken on his own.

And none of it really matters. Marvel vs. Games don't count. And heh, heh, by MVC2 Ken's Shinkuu Hadouken is gone anyways. :devil:

[Kayin]

But you forget Sano if Ryu learns the Super Dooper Shinkuu Hadouken then Sagat will learn the Super Dopper Tiger Cannon!

Oh and lets not forget about Akuma's Ultra Mega Super Dooper Metsu Gou Hadouken
:rofl:
lol Good thing it did not turn out like this, or else SF woulda turned out like DBZ or something. :rofl:

That would be interesting to see how the games would go tho... lol

[Carbono]

If we follow the canon,
Ryu will be always more powerfull than Ken, Ryu trains everytime and everyday of his entire life, he doesnt have a lot of friends, he dont go out with girls, he dont care about having a job or his looks. He trains like a madman.
Ken on the other hand, trains a little, he has a wife, money to burn, he drives, and all that stuff.

Most provably Ken, can learn shinkuu haduken, but i dont think he likes it, ken is more about stile than ryu, so, he stick with the shoryukens.

[Rick Fn Stalvey]

Most provably Ken, can learn shinkuu haduken, but i dont think he likes it, ken is more about stile than ryu, so, he stick with the shoryukens.


Im just going to throw my 2 cents in....

What was said about Ryu training harder has alot to do with why Ken might not choose to use the Shinkuu Hadouken. Let me Explain. Ryu lives for nothing but the fight, hence he trains alot,duh, but more than just cardio based training. He puts alot of time into Ki minipulation. So Ryu, more than Ken, will know the ins and outs of Hadou. Like how to conserve, compress, release, and how to draw more Ki from around him. Supposedly many ppl have lived the same life as Ryu before him and still have not come to the same lvl of mastery as him.



As it was pointed out, Ken has other things going on like family and fun. While I dont think its out of the question that Ken CAN do a Shinkuu Hadouken, I do think that since he hasnt refined it on any significant level, it might be a waste of energy to use it. Besides the amount of time and patience it must take to use it effectively kinda go against everything Ken is all about. Ken for the most part is a very successful fighter winning all sorts of MA tourneys and is considered to be a Top World Fighter. Why would he put all that extra time in???? Just to beat Ryu?? Ken is the otherside of the coin. Ken is flashy, and moves at a faster pace, it shows in his life style and in his fighting style. Ken is pretty bad ass for being as strong as he is AND having a family and a lavish lifestyle...

[Sagatryu]

Ok here's all the tier lists from the Plot Guide

Tier 1: This tier should be obvious. Gill, especially, with his fire and
ice creation, angel powers, and his last boss towering status. Akuma
should be, too. By SF3, the guy can destroy mountains, islands, and stay
in deep ocean for crying out loud. And Oro beat Ryu in the SF3 tournament,
and that was despite being handicapped by binding his arm. The guy's
become powerful enough to live to 150 years or so... I won't go into a
deeper analysis due to how obvious this tier is. Who specifically is the
best among Gill, Oro, and Akuma is up in the air, but eh, tiers aren't
supposed to be THAT specific. Bison during SFA3 probably went into this
range, also. Being able to take on Ken and Sakura at the same time (only
forced to retreat due to Ryu coming to), then Rose, then all 13 Dolls, then
Guile, Chun-Li, and Charlie has got to say something.


Tier 2

M. Bison: Akuma can beat him in SF2. Whether Akuma could have beaten him
during SFA3 where he was stronger (and Akuma was most likely weaker), not
sure, but in his last state, he generally goes here from all KNOWN factual
evidence (unknown stuff like how he lost the SF2 tournament or even if he
DID since we don't know when Akuma killed him aren't being considered here
since... well, it's unknown). He's definately high up, though. His
weakened body wasn't weakened to the point where he'd really really plummet
in the tiers, and during Alpha 3 it took a rather ludicrous amount of
consecutive battles against multiple opponents to finally take him down.


Ryu: Seen by Oro as the one with the potential to be trained, generally
considered a legend (see Makoto's statements about him), whomped Alex
easily in Third Strike, only lost the SF3 tournament because he went up
against the godly Oro and even then impressed the old guy, etc etc. This
one should be pretty obvious.

Evil Ryu: A major point of Ryu's SFA3 storyline is that he could follow
the path to warrior perfection without giving in to the Satsu no Hadou.
Even though Evil Ryu was really high up back then, the reason regular Ryu
is on the same tier is due to Ryu's revelations since then. He has now
managed to reach what he could have been had he given in. Generally shown
by Ryu promptly telling Akuma that Satsu no Hadou is not the way in SF3.
Er... yea. It's mostly implied as far as I know, but the implications are
more than enough to place the two into this tier with enough certainty.



Sagat: Although he was too obsessed with revenge and unfocused during
Alpha, by the end of Alpha 3, he has realized the error of his ways and is
now on the path to the true warrior. All statements and storyline
implications from there on are that Sagat is matching Ryu step for step in
progress as they await their glorious battle, so it's really easy to tier
Sagat here. Note that this is Sagat in his most present state, not most
present state since when he was last seen in a game, since unlike other
characters, it's easy to estimate where Sagat is even without seeing him
due to all the statements and implications.


Q: Q is marked as 'hinted' because there's no way to really gauge his
tier, what with him having no interactions with anyone else in the
storyline. But he's robotic and can somehow zip around the world, and
those are typically always powerful, and the effects of his moves sure look
darn powerful. So as a guestimate, he gets to be in this tier. Though
again, it's mostly a guess.


Tier 3

Rose: She's M. Bison lite. She's the only character in Alpha that was
actually able to give Bison a somewhat decent match one-on-one. But... she
still lost, so she's a tier lower. Rose could put up a fight against Alpha
Bison (well, actually, she WON in Alpha 2. Only 'lost' in Alpha 3) while
Chun-Li got owned for free in Alpha 2, and since there really isn't much to
indicate that Chun-Li improved THAT much since Alpha, Rose gets to be a
tier higher. Chun-Li only started being called the strongest woman in the
world since SF2, after Rose was gone.



Ken: Ryu states to Ken in SF3 that he still has the better win record.
But the way he says it indicates that it's still pretty close. Thus Ken
gets this tier. Pretty obvious, I think.


Gen: I think it's hard to decide whether he's in tier 2 or tier 3, but
he's definately up there. Gen was able to fight Akuma to a standstill in
Alpha, after all. He's definately not as good as the further trained Akuma
of SF3, though (Gen of course being most likely unable to further train
because he's most likely dead). I'd be really surprised if he (and thus
even Akuma during that time) was as strong as "I take on tons of people by
myself" SFA3 Bison, so... generally tier 3 for him. On a random note, Gen
uses ki in his attacks with lots of skill. It's just not as obvious as
Akuma (not all ki usage manifests as fireballs or something visual).



Charlie: Charlie is the US Martial Arts champion. Took down Bison in
SFA3, albeit with a little help. What mainly puts him here with certainty
instead of circumstantiality though I believe is how he's better than Guile
(even SF2 Guile). Charlie's ki manipulation is implied to be right up
there with Ryu and other top-notch fighters. He can shoot sonic booms from
any of his limbs, even his feet (something that Guile needs LOTS of
concentration to do. It takes Guile two hands and officially stated all
his focus just to throw one sonic boom). Since Guile, at least based on
what we can think of, comes into the tier below, and Charlie is definately
above Guile, even without the circumstantial evidence, we can generally
place Charlie in this tier.


Urien: Like Gen, I'm personally not sure if he should be in Tier 2 or Tier
3, but he's up there. He's better than Chun-Li (he's only toying with her
in SF3 Third Strike after all) and definately lower than Gill (Gill doesn't
even have to take him seriously and his power compared to Urien's is one of
the many things Urien is jealous of, of course). Anyways, Urien's
abilities include earth and lightning manipulation and an iron body (as
part of his earth manipulation). He's blinded by jealousy, though.


Tier 4

Guile: Most likely winner of the SF2 tournament. If you decide to ignore
that, then there's also the way in how he's storyline-wise more interwoven
and more 'important' than most of the other SF2 characters, and they
typically get favored in the storyline power tiers. And I believe he's
meant to be the same power as Chun-Li, but I forget^^; Whatever the case,
he's been training really hard since SFA3, though Charlie in SFA3 was still
most likely better than him (see Charlie in Tier 3 for reasons). He isn't
progressing any more because he gave up fighting after SF2 to be a family
man.

Chun-Li: Weaker than Rose but after Rose died then come SF2, is called the
strongest woman in the world, thus gets to be above the other female
characters in the next tier. That was easy. ...er, going further, Chun-Li
isn't any higher because she quit the ICPO and generally retired from
fighting and training after SF2 (course, after SF3, she trains OTHERS, but
that's another story). Anyways, Capcom has stated that she's the strongest
woman in the world during SF2, so it's not just the opinion of the SF
tournament audience (or whatever) that she is.


Hugo: Actually rather surprising he's up here, but all the facts point to
it. Hugo is officially stated to have withstood the shin shoryuken against
Ryu, which is officially stated to be one of the most powerful moves in the
world, so right there you know he's a really strong guy. He is also
officially stated to have made 'an amazing performance' in the SF3
tournament, which probably means he's generally above the majority of the
SF3 characters (he lost the tournament due to going up against Ryu, of
course. Oh, and to those who think Hugo is all stamina and nothing else, I
highly doubt he would have been stated to have made an amazing performance
if he didn't at least put up a somewhat decent fight against Ryu. So no,
he's not just a big punching bag with lots of endurance). As for who is
better, Hugo or Alex, well, Hugo withstanding the shin shoryuken means that
he probably put up a better fight against Ryu than Alex did. He withstood
an attack that officially could kill someone (Yea, Ryu's style isn't
designed to kill, but that doesn't mean it can't kill due to the sheer
damage alone) compared to Alex, who Ryu didn't even break a sweat fighting
against. That would probably earn him a tier spot higher. Ryu still beat
him somewhat soundly, though, so he's definately not up in Ken's tier.
Note, though, that many of these tiers are at best, educated guesses and
estimates. Maybe Alex made a huge comeback after Ryu was beating him (the
fight wasn't completely finished in Alex's TS ending) but from all
available evidence, this is the best that can be estimated.







Vega: Cammy's love-hate rival is generally better than her, and almost
positively let her win in their fight in SFA3. Therefore, Vega's a tier
higher than Cammy. Easy. He's also a better fighter within Shadaloo than
Balrog, I believe (not sure if it was officially stated. I think it was,
but I forget). He doesn't go any higher because that would place him on
Gen's level, which seems pretty darn silly. Capcom doesn't go around
praising his ability like they do for Charlie. Course... a harder more
definitive proof might just be simply that Rose beats him in A3.



Twelve: Again, there's lack of storyline interaction. But Twelve
officially feels no pain, and he can morph into other characters, so he's
probably up there somewhere. He's at least tier 5, because all lab reports
from Gill's organization indicate that he should be superior to Necro in
every way (not that that means it's fact, but it's the best thing to go by
so far. Course, you never know how far 'spirit' could go, I suppose).


Tier 5

Guy and Cody: Hard to tier, IMHO. They can beat Sodom and Rolento,
obviously. They can also beat a whole bunch of the Mad Gear gang, but it's
important to remember that they did not fight through Final Fight alone and
also that it's wholly possible and likely that the SF universe follows the
laws of anime (IE, any generic bad guy is really weak and easy to beat up
by most any semi-important character), thus the fact that they can take out
most of the Mad Gear scrubs isn't a very good gauge, either. Guy, even
though he is a Bushin master, is still equal to Cody even during SFA3,
though, so we at least know they are on the same tier. But storyline-wise,
neither has ever really gone up against any of the really high tier Street
Fighter characters, so this is the best guess we can get to place them
unless more *comparative* info ever comes in. Actually, though, after
getting Juni's official power ratings that she scans in SFA3, I'm thinking
that Sodom, Rolento, Guy, and Cody are probably a lot higher than this.
Probably around Charlie's level during SFA3, actually.


Adon: Strong enough to beat Sagat in SFA2. Sagat may have been unfocused,
but he was still powerful. There aren't many other matches to use to tier
him with hard core certainty, but beating SFA2 Sagat and being the new Muy
Thai Emperor should be enough to give him this tier.



Sakura: She's better than Karin. It's officially stated that her chi
manipulation is equal to Ken's during SFA3. The girl's ridiculously gifted
and able to learn Ryu's moves just by watching him. If Sakura continued
training on and on after SFA3, she could really be something.
Unfortunately, since SFA3 was so incredibly long ago, and Sakura's future
still highly up in the air (highschool is really a bit too early in life to
get that hard a bead on one's future, I think), the tier can really only go
by her last seen position (unlike Sagat, where it's shown that he's still
in the game after SF2 and his determination to stay on level with Ryu is
further emphasized). Anyways, Chun-Li is the strongest woman in the world
so Sakura is below her, regardless. Oh, and judging from SFA3, she can
beat Honda, so she gets to be higher than him.


Balrog: Can kill an elephant with his bare hands. Generally among the top
fighters in Shadaloo (not sure if it was officially stated, though I think
it was... it's implied, at least) and thus higher than the Dolls. Oh, and
judging by SFA3, he beat Birdie. Probably weaker than Vega, so here he
goes. Even if he's an idiot, he's still armed with 'the world's strongest
punches'...


Cammy: She's better than the other Dolls but weaker than Vega. ...wow,
that was easy.


Zangief: A bit hard to tier, but being implied to be Russia's greatest
warrior should account for something. He's better than R. Mika (it seems
he goes easy on her in SFA3 and all), and R. Mika is most likely better
than Dan, so Zangief gets to go here. On a random note, I have no clue
where Haggar (or any other Final Fight exclusive character, really) fits
in, here. Even Cody and Guy, who weren't exclusive to only Final Fight,
are hard to tier. Can't even decide whether or not Haggar is on Zangief's
level because the two never even met in person, after all, so there's no
interaction to use to compare.



T. Hawk: He can beat (and most likely actually has beaten) the Doll
Noembelu. ...another easy one.


Dhalsim: Loses to Ryu (at least, implied by one of Ryu's SF3 win quotes).
A bit hard to tier, but he's been going around doing lots of good things
for the world and has that fire power granted by the gods and such. There
might be more that I should poke Saiki for, but overall, this is a pretty
good guess, I think. He retired from fighting after SF2, by the way.


Alex: Alex is better than all the other SF3 characters (besides heavy
hitters like Ryu and Oro, who he never had to fight) as can be seen by him
winning the SF3 tournament. However, he's still not really that high up
since Ryu beat him VERY easily in Third Strike. Thus he only gets to be a
tier higher than where the other SF3 characters go. He's below Hugo even
though they never fought because Hugo actually put up a fight against Ryu.



Tier 6


The Twelve Dolls, Rolento, Sodom, Karin, Birdie, Necro, Dudley

Tier 7

Blanka, Fei Long, Honda

Tier 8

Makoto, Ibuki, Elena, Yun, Yang

Tier 9

Dee Jay, R. Mika, Dan

Tier 10

Sean

[CrotchMonkey]

haha i feel so bad for sean. sf's worse character heh

[TAS]

haha i feel so bad for sean. sf's worse character heh

Well he would have been ALOT better had Capcom not decided to cave in and add Ryu and Ken to the cast. Most of Ryu and Ken's SF3 moves/animations were Sean's originaly, but then were removed from Sean (or pasted from him) and then his moves and stats got seriously downgraded in the process, his story was also changed as well, ie in the original story he was Ken's student and basicly at the level Ken was in SFA or SF2, but then it was changed to Sean wanting to be Ken's student (I dont think it actually shows Ken take on Sean as his student in any of the SF3 endings, its only something stated post SF3, like Ryu being trained by Oro)

[Rick Fn Stalvey]

I would like to see Dan and Sean Fight it out for bottom Tier!!! If Sean lost to Dan.....Even A groove Dan......thas pretty bad!!! LOL!!

[Sano]

And TiamatRoar's list still leaves out Remy. He's Tier 8.

[powerincarnate]

He's 3/4 Japanese. His mom is (completely) Japanese and his dad his 1/2 Japanese, and Ken dyes/bleaches his blonde to look more American.


That's some Non Japanese looking character then. Then again, Ryu doesn't look the slightest japanese either. It's like since when did Japanese look closer to white than actual east asians ie. korea, china, japan, lighter version of of south east aians (roughly, clear differences but much closer than a european person). Even half asian and half european white have a distinct in the middle look to them more often leanning towards the asian side (hard to explain, most that i know of is local and you people won't know them but the only example i could think of quickly would be Asia Carrera who is half german and half chinese). Honestly, I don't think Capcom is SERIOUSLY caring about what nationality a particular person is. They are more interested about filling in the standard cliche character types. Ie.

The lone wolf, the star of the title, the american looking but meant to be totally japanese character who isn't FAT but isn't Bone skinny, hair never too long but also Never too short, often spiky, he's that middle of the road guy. (Ryu, Jin, Akira)

The supposibly tough girl part. the no non sense female character than can kick ass. Never is she fat, often times she is skinny, and usually a bigger chest than anatomically suiting her, Long hair is a must, sexy is what they aim for, she will be quick as hell, but not overly strong, supposibly can beat a lot of guys despite the fact that few women can even comes get near a man's total fighting ability in the real world do to men being quicker and faster (game would say other wise) and stronger usually. (chun Li, DOA characters, or one or two from tekken, chick from ninja scrolls, Tifa from final fantasy, and alot more if i sit back and think)

The hot head Wild, often BLONDE, undiciplined American. Never skinny but Never FAT either, could fight, often nearing the level of the main character. Often is a ladies charmer as well. (Ken, Jacky Bryant, i can't remember much about tekken because I was never a full fan of it but I'm sure there is one, all sorts of anime characters while in some may not have nationalities, often times will fit the scrip though.

The STRONG GUY (Often dumb, not always american, easily could be a russion, east european. very strong, very slow, not very bright, never the lead character, never the the lead boss. Sumo the only exception in that they are not always dump. (Zangief, raiden (that earthquake looking guy), the blob, even robot characters like Gutsman.

The BOSS (evil guy, red eyes are a must. pupils not always a in fasion. Very Powerful as oppose to being weak but intelligent, can sometimes fly, dark colors, red black are used often. Evil just to be evil, rarely has any real intelligent reason as to why they do what they do (magneto being different but even him started off as being simply I'm magneto, I'm evil and I want to take over the world (see Magneto between uncanny x-men 1 to when Chris claremont took over). Boss is also rarely really skinny or FAT. often is middle of the road but can often be muscular (but not too muscular to fit in the big dump, often fat category). Boss is also often pretty tall.

there is more but those are the absolute main ones.

[Nando]

Blanka is so dddddddddaaaaaaaammmmmmmmm llllllllllooooooooooowwwwwwwww.....You have no idea how sad this makes me...

[Kuro]

How powerful is Akuma's fireball, SRK and hurricane kicks compared to Ryus then?

[TAS]

That's some Non Japanese looking character then. Then again, Ryu doesn't look the slightest japanese either. It's like since when did Japanese look closer to white than actual east asians ie. korea, china, japan, lighter version of of south east aians (roughly, clear differences but much closer than a european person). Even half asian and half european white have a distinct in the middle look to them more often leanning towards the asian side (hard to explain, most that i know of is local and you people won't know them but the only example i could think of quickly would be Asia Carrera who is half german and half chinese). Honestly, I don't think Capcom is SERIOUSLY caring about what nationality a particular person is. They are more interested about filling in the standard cliche character types. Ie.

If you look at character designs in anime video games, etc, etc, fictional (non realistic) looking characters dont ever look Japanese, and why should they I mean after awhile they're all going to start looking the same (fitting the steriotype, tan skin, black hair) Japanese character designs tend to be inspired by people and cultures from everywhere except Japan.

The lone wolf, the star of the title, the american looking but meant to be totally japanese character who isn't FAT but isn't Bone skinny, hair never too long but also Never too short, often spiky, he's that middle of the road guy. (Ryu, Jin, Akira)

The supposibly tough girl part. the no non sense female character than can kick ass. Never is she fat, often times she is skinny, and usually a bigger chest than anatomically suiting her, Long hair is a must, sexy is what they aim for, she will be quick as hell, but not overly strong, supposibly can beat a lot of guys despite the fact that few women can even comes get near a man's total fighting ability in the real world do to men being quicker and faster (game would say other wise) and stronger usually. (chun Li, DOA characters, or one or two from tekken, chick from ninja scrolls, Tifa from final fantasy, and alot more if i sit back and think)

The hot head Wild, often BLONDE, undiciplined American. Never skinny but Never FAT either, could fight, often nearing the level of the main character. Often is a ladies charmer as well. (Ken, Jacky Bryant, i can't remember much about tekken because I was never a full fan of it but I'm sure there is one, all sorts of anime characters while in some may not have nationalities, often times will fit the scrip though.

The STRONG GUY (Often dumb, not always american, easily could be a russion, east european. very strong, very slow, not very bright, never the lead character, never the the lead boss. Sumo the only exception in that they are not always dump. (Zangief, raiden (that earthquake looking guy), the blob, even robot characters like Gutsman.

The BOSS (evil guy, red eyes are a must. pupils not always a in fasion. Very Powerful as oppose to being weak but intelligent, can sometimes fly, dark colors, red black are used often. Evil just to be evil, rarely has any real intelligent reason as to why they do what they do (magneto being different but even him started off as being simply I'm magneto, I'm evil and I want to take over the world (see Magneto between uncanny x-men 1 to when Chris claremont took over). Boss is also rarely really skinny or FAT. often is middle of the road but can often be muscular (but not too muscular to fit in the big dump, often fat category). Boss is also often pretty tall.

there is more but those are the absolute main ones.

Okay its like this.

SF1 and SF2 created the fighting game character cast cliche.

Karate Guy (Ryu)
Old Chinese Man Kung Fu Master (Gen)
Ninja (Geki)
Big Wrestler Guy (Zangief)
Freak (Blanka)
Female Kung Fu Fighter (Chun Li)
Bruce Lee Tribute (Fei Long)
Boxer (Mike/Balrog)

You're not going to find any fighting game cast that dosnt feature one of those cliche's (or some stem of them)

[Sagatryu]

For a example of how powerful Akuma's Hurricane kick is when he's not hold back take a look at Akuma's SF3: Third Strike ending.

[TAS]

For a example of how powerful Akuma's Hurricane kick is when he's not hold back take a look at Akuma's SF3: Third Strike ending.

I thought all Akuma's TS ending showed was him destroying that ship and walking under water.

[Sagatryu]

http://www.amnh.org/nationalcenter/expeditions/blacksmokers/alvin.html

[FighterX]

Charlie just can't win. He even dies in the ending of Cannon Spike.

[Sano]

Charlie just can't win. He even dies in the ending of Cannon Spike.

But in some endings he escapes the exploding fortress. I think if you play with Cammy and Nash you get to see this.

[nortlee]

Charlie just can't win. He even dies in the ending of Cannon Spike.
In some of the titles he supposedly died, I have no idea with regards to Cannon Spike but don't forget that he survived Alpha 2... Alpha 3 was where he met his demise though I'll grant you that...

[mohammeda1i]

In some of the titles he supposedly died, I have no idea with regards to Cannon Spike but don't forget that he survived Alpha 2... Alpha 3 was where he met his demise though I'll grant you that...

I beleive Charlie dies in every Alpha game (even in SFA2) if not every game he's ever in :wow: :wow: :wow:

In Canon Spike, the ending has Charlie confronting Vega (claw), with the building exploding a little later. You can find the pictures on Googles picture search somewhere.

Here are the Alpha endings.
Street Fighter Alpha 1 GBA (http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/gbc/a/sfachar.htm)
Street Figther Alpha 1 (http://zanyvg.overclocked.org/streetfighteralpha/endcharlie.gif)
Street Fighter Alpha 2 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/arcade/a/sfa2cha.htm)
Street Fighter Alpha 3 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/arcade/c/sfa3char.htm)

He also dies in the MvC ending. Hope that helps.

Mohammed Ali

[Sano]

"In Canon Spike, the ending has Charlie confronting Vega (claw), with the building exploding a little later. You can find the pictures on Googles picture search somewhere."

Like I said, he doesn't die in every Cannon Spike Ending. If you play the game with Cammy and Nash, he comes parachuting down after the explosion. Cannon Spike has multiple endings.

[mohammeda1i]

Like I said, he doesn't die in every Cannon Spike Ending. If you play the game with Cammy and Nash, he comes parachuting down after the explosion. Cannon Spike has multiple endings.

Cool. I haven't seen that ending, but I was just pointing out that his ending (with out Cammy) has him possibly dying. In fact I was trying to make a point that it was left open to interpretation in a way.

Mohammed Ali

[TAS]

The only reason Charlie dies in every ending is because Capcom knew when they created him they were going to kill him, but never knew in which game specificly he would die, since they never knew if they'd be making a sequel to whatever game or not, however they knew Alpha 3 would be the last SFA game.

[nortlee]

I beleive Charlie dies in every Alpha game (even in SFA2) if not every game he's ever in :wow: :wow: :wow:

In Canon Spike, the ending has Charlie confronting Vega (claw), with the building exploding a little later. You can find the pictures on Googles picture search somewhere.

Here are the Alpha endings.
Street Fighter Alpha 1 GBA (http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/gbc/a/sfachar.htm)
Street Figther Alpha 1 (http://zanyvg.overclocked.org/streetfighteralpha/endcharlie.gif)
Street Fighter Alpha 2 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/arcade/a/sfa2cha.htm)
Street Fighter Alpha 3 (http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/arcade/c/sfa3char.htm)

He also dies in the MvC ending. Hope that helps.

Mohammed Ali

I was aware of that but Canon wise he only died once believe it or not lol, I don't know if the ending of Alpha 2 took place but he possibly survived and recovered. Street Fighter Alpha never happened.

Also in Alpha 3 it was Guile's ending that he died in.