Sakura: CVS2 vs A3

[Lebowsk1]

I've heard that top level Japanese players consider Sakura and Gouki God-tier in Alpha 3 and I was wondering, since sho-sho-sho became discovered... is Sakura rising to a similar status in CVS2?

Obviously many characters have potent strats and tactics, especially the top tier, and Sagat/Blanka will always be strong, but it seems to me that in Japanese footage (and increasingly US) Sak seems to boss any round she's involved in, and she's usually involved in more than one. Because she's got such a solid poking and anti air game it seems the opponent has to play defensive, and yet she also has the offensive capabilities to just smash straight through turtlers. Am I overreacting or is she taking over CVS2?

[diifii]

She is very good in cVSsnk2. she is like Ryu and with some extra moves. its like you said she can smash straight through turtlers.
i also think Yuri is very good in cVSsnk2.

[kcxj]

CvS2 Sakura is weak. She was unbeatable top tier last year, but everybody I know (including myself) have been dropping her recently. Aside from about one of the Japanese and one of the Americans, nearly every person I know who loves A-Sak in the US is a roll cancel scrub and is easy to beat.

Stay out of range of RC qcb+MK. Roll though and painfully punish every single RC qcb+HK. Sakura has a major weakness again far jump in moves like Sagat j.HK and Yamazaki j.MK. Meaty attack her all day, since no person (short of a person using a programable pad) is going to be able to one frame reversal a roll cancel on you every time.

The best and cheapest thing Sakura has going for her is random CC activate in your face and start with the "unblockable" low short. Walk back and forth far s.HK is really, really good, but it's definately not unbeatable. It does 1000 damage, but whenever Sagat presses d.HP at the same time, Sakura takes 2000 points of counter hit damage.

There are CvS2 players in the UK?

[Silentness!]

There are CvS2 players in the UK?


Yamazaki93 and Evil are a couple names

[Dasrik]

kcxj, aren't you selling A-Sak a bit short?

RC hurricane and spark are really good on P and K groove, and shoshosho kills P-Groove on turtle power alone. Sakura has good solid tactics without super too - good normals with good priority, a dive kick, and a really good cross-up. As for lack of good anti-air, there are other things you can do about jump kicks besides waiting for them to do it and anti-airing.

A lot of really good characters in fighting games have bad wakeup games. You shouldn't base your belief in a character around what they can do after a knockdown. It's nice as a backup plan, but you should be going for not getting knocked down at all. Sometimes, even with a good wakeup game, blocking is the best option.

[BillyKane]

Yamazaki93 and Evil are a couple names

France isn't part of the UK.

[box]

Stay out of range of RC qcb+MK. Roll though and painfully punish every single RC qcb+HK. Sakura has a major weakness again far jump in moves like Sagat j.HK and Yamazaki j.MK. Meaty attack her all day, since no person (short of a person using a programable pad) is going to be able to one frame reversal a roll cancel on you every time.


GOOD sakura players aren't gonna RC hurricane kick when their opponent is out of range. And there are a ton of characters who have a weakness against far jump in moves like Sagat j.hk and yamazaki mk. Meaty attacks work... except you have to knock her down first... which is a bitch to do because of her excellent footsie game.

[gouki75]

Yamazaki93 and Evil are a couple names.

France isn't part of the UK.

Franchement on voit de ces trucs sur ce forum c'est trop fort :clap:


A-Sakura is definetly god tier on cvs2.

[Ouroborus]

i dont know what some of you are smoking but cvs2 sak is that damn good.

fuck honda, guile, and <insert bullshit theoretical top tier character>. at the end of the day sakura still stands on top.

[GraffitiSoldier]

Umm, maybe I should start using sak... How is her CC done exactly? I think you start it with a low short and just mash Jab shoryuken, am I right? Do you need timing or is it easy?

[bardinfalsegod]

i think its fierce shoryuken

[TGC]

It's fierce dp over and over again...of course there's easy techniques to do them, like buffering.

[gl0ry]

kcxj, aren't you selling A-Sak a bit short?


Don't question kang.. The man knows his shit :tup:

[bassventura]

I use C Sakura and generaly do OK, IMO she's good when she gets going but takes damage tooo quick, also I cant counter sagat effectivly with her, he just fucks my Sakura up majority of the time.

Tell you wot Lebowsk1, Pulpasis at times makes C sakura seem god tier.

[kcxj]

I use C Sakura and generaly do OK, IMO she's good when she gets going but takes damage tooo quick, also I cant counter sagat effectivly with her, he just fucks my Sakura up majority of the time.
Yeah, you really need to watch out for that jump of his and crouching fierce as well. The good part is Sagat can't spam s.LK on you because you have your Sakura far s.MP to counter him. Far s.MP is probably the anti-Sagat move in the game I think. It builds meter really quickly so you can get your A-groove meter up (although it's useful in C as well), it stuffs the s.LK, and it beats d.HP at times. Sagat can use his far s.HP to counter you, but that's what you have your roll, sweep, and walk back far s.HK for.

Good Sakura's versus Sagat --> far s.MP, far s.HK, almost nothing else until you get the knockdown

Do you know how to quickly tap to get rapid whiff s.LP's out? Those beat Sagat's moves a lot of times for no reason as well.

Focus on building your meter up, but walk back and forth far s.HK is simply the strongest gameplan you can go for I think. Every fierce attack that Sagat sticks out, you can kick his limb back for free every time. If you're playing against scrub Sagat, that'll frustrate him into doing something random like a roll or a jump in from less than optimal range (ie. too close... your d.HP anti-air is free then).

On the flip side, never go for anything random with Sakura yourself. When I'm playing as Sagat, I'm always specifically looking for scrub Sakura to lose patience and do random a jump-in dive kick, roll-in, RC'd qcf+P, or RC'd qcb+MK/HK. As long as I have my finger on my Tiger Uppercut, d.MK, fierce, and roll buttons, Sakura is going to lose a lot of health every time she tries something dumb like that on me.

Sagat can't duck your close s.LP. Once you get close and have Sagat cornered, short of alpha countering a hurricane kick, it's ridiculously hard for Sagat to get out. Keep abusing walk forward s.LP's, counter hit close s.HP xx qcf+MP, walk forward low shorts/throw, and block string that make Sagat have to block all three hits of Sak's qcb+HK. The cheap frame advantage you get from qcb+HK, qcf+HP, and the super fast speeds of close fierce, down fierce, and low short (which all lead to knockdown combos), make it so Sagat doesn't stand a chance once he's cornered. :tdown:

-----

As for the the midscreen battle, guard break and damage potential (rush her down with FIERCE!), and punishing each other's mistakes however, Sagat is simply the beast IMO. I think everybody should try using him out for yourselves first before just dismissing my opinion and jumping on the A-scrub fanwagon.

[Lebowsk1]

Tell you wot Lebowsk1, Pulpasis at times makes C sakura seem god tier.

Hahah yeah you're right there, and he doesnt even play A-groove. His Vice and Sagat are tight too of course.

[bassventura]

Cheers for the info kcxj, that MFer Sagat better watch his damn steps from now. I'm gonna give him another eyepatch and then beat the blind bastard around. LOL

Lebowsk1 Let Pulpasis know when you are spendin time in London. Go out for a Bev and then bust some fighters if possible. P

[kcxj]

A European country that doesn't hate us. I feel the love already. As long as nobody loses to Evil/French people doing roll, roll, super anymore I'll be a happy man. :rofl:

[CrimsonDisaster]

Just one random thing:
When I was playing BAS and watching him play this weekend in casual, he was anti-airing people with RC jab DP into CC. Since Sakura can build meter pretty quickly just playing her normal game and has a solid enough defense to keep people from rushing her freely even with the get-off-me effect of CC activation, it was really frustrating to fight his Sakura.

Then again, most of the people who played didn't have good enough Sagats to do much more against BAS than jump into anti-air CCs, do Roll super, and get kicked in the face for whiffing fierces. I know I saw a lot of problems in my game from all the times BAS OCV'd me :sad:

[Lebowsk1]

Bassventura: yeah I'll be back in London in a week's time for a month so I'll be about. :karate:

Well, from the vids I've been watching and even from the stuff you posted kcxj, Sagat v Sak seems a tough matchup for Sagat.

http://kapuesu.heavy.jp/

Check out Vol.2 and Vol.4 there, savage stuff in the corner exactly how you described it. Mind you my opinions are based on watching loads of vids as opposed to actual play, something I hope to change once I'm back in London.

[kcxj]

Just one random thing:
When I was playing BAS and watching him play this weekend in casual, he was anti-airing people with RC jab DP into CC. Since Sakura can build meter pretty quickly just playing her normal game and has a solid enough defense to keep people from rushing her freely even with the get-off-me effect of CC activation, it was really frustrating to fight his Sakura.

Then again, most of the people who played didn't have good enough Sagats to do much more against BAS than jump into anti-air CCs, do Roll super, and get kicked in the face for whiffing fierces. I know I saw a lot of problems in my game from all the times BAS OCV'd me :sad:
What a scrub. I knew he would find some dumb gimmick thing to get around a move that Sakura would normally have a tough time getting around.

Anyway, to counter RC jab dp, I would try and only jump forward when Sak is walking forward herself. People usually aren't ready to anti-air (especially with a tricky execution anti-air like RC dp) when they want to walk forward to most likely go for something else. Other than that, play against her as if you were playing against P-groove. Sagat doesn't need to jump, but just stick with far s.LK, d.MP, and d.HP on the ground instead. You CAN however anti-air for free every jumpin Sakura does since A-groove has no air-block or parry. Use Sagat jump back HK and far s.HK whenever the angle for HP Tiger Uppercut is off. And finally, if he's not using the dp+LP deep, you can airblock it with C-Sagat anyway.

You're absolutely right about almost every single Sagat not being good enough to do anything other than get raped by a mediocre Sakura anyway. Pity Choi didn't show up over the weekend. That matchup would of been free. Sanford copying Choi down to the letter was probably the closest thing unfortunately. :rofl: I know fabulous Ricky plays a really strong any groove Sagat, but he always plays those A-scrub teams in tourney.

[yoooooon]

A European country that doesn't hate us. I feel the love already. As long as nobody loses to Evil/French people doing roll, roll, super anymore I'll be a happy man. :rofl:

i think the UK still hates america, but its just the prime minister that likes us.

[RagingStorm101]

What if it's a mirror match? Then what determines who's Sakura will win?

[popo187]

IMO:

I think recently Sagat has dropped status of being as good as he used to be, he is seemingly harder and harder to use vs characters that can abuse RC such as Honda/Blanka/Sak/Bison and A groove in general, so to those who use anchor Sagats I applaud you (check out John Choi sagat) because it's very tough to win nowadays since everyone can RC just about.


As for Sakura, she's not as popular as she used to be but still up there in terms of tiers. Don't get me wrong a solid turtle sakura is just as good as she ever was, and she's pretty much a direct counter against K,P, and has advantage vs sagat/blanka.


responding to kxcj's quote "You CAN however anti-air for free every jumpin Sakura does since A-groove has no air-block or parry." :


Your forgetting the fact that A groove is the best groove esp. when the player is RANDOM. Roll > activate, and jump-in > activate, dash > activate are too strong to go un-noticed, all it takes is the opponent to 50/50 guess, and for you to press anything OR walk forward, and your gone.


oh yeah and most of the footage of japanese players online are whack (cvs2) except for the known players, here's a pretty good website for videos, and they update consistantly:

http://page.freett.com/QSYUKAPUESU2/index.htm


for C groove look for a player named Nakanishi he's one of the better C groove players I see nowadays, his C-guile is world-class, as seen here:

http://www.story-of-my-life.net/187/FastGuilecvs2.wmv


just my 2 cents. later.

[cheese_master]

What a scrub. I knew he would find some dumb gimmick thing to get around a move that Sakura would normally have a tough time getting around.

Please explain why Bas is a scrub? I would definitely believe you if you could beat Bas, but somehow I am skeptical.

[kcxj]

Please explain why Bas is a scrub? I would definitely believe you if you could beat Bas, but somehow I am skeptical.
If he's top to you, then by all means I take back what I said and he's a beast then.

[Chupacabra]

kcxj, who are you? Im not trying to be disrespectful or anything but it seems like youre blowing off anyone saying anything about how good Sakura is. Sakura dominated at this weekend's TS5 and last year's evo2k.

I can see what youre saying if you really are Mago or one of the SBO finalist, but otherwise...what are you talking about?

[cheese_master]

If he's top to you, then by all means I take back what I said and he's a beast then.

Naw I got more respect for Dan and Shiro etc etc. Cuz they play w/ chars that require crazy footsies to win. But I will never sit here and call Bas a scrub, considering 95% of what most A groovers do, was jocked off of him. I just don't see how you call him a scrub, cuz last I checked he was placing 5th at TS5 while you were making this post. I mean if Bas is a scrub, then what does that make Justin, Arturo, Sanford and all those guys who placed lower than him and regularly beat your ass? And in turn, wtf does that make you?

[taiji]

kcxj = geekboy

[kcxj]

kcxj = geekboy
Ace? Damn man, I was kidding. If you guys take it that seriously and are comparing me to him of all people then whatever, I'll stop posting. :tdown:

The point was that I think playing (and winning) with Sagat takes more skills than doing some gimmicky with RC Sak. Cheesemaster can say whatever he wants, but if other people are taking it wrong now too then guess I'll stop being stupid. Sorry!

[cheese_master]

The point was that I think playing (and winning) with Sagat takes more skills than doing some gimmicky with RC Sak. Cheesemaster can say whatever he wants, but if other people are taking it wrong now too then guess I'll stop being stupid. Sorry!
If I knew you were joking I wouldn't have replied. As for Sagat, I 100% agree. I think Blanka and Honda and Sakura are some of the simplest characters to play in CvS2 by a landslide, and I've always said A groove is the easiest groove to be a threat with. Are you coming to MWCs this year?

[Serpent]

Stop being stupid Kang.