CvS2:KARA-CANCELLING?!(not roll-cancelling)

[MuziKal]

Thats right.First off I dont know if this has already been said or done and if it has well then im just gonna have to remind you.We remember the infamous KARA-THROW glitch from SF3:3rd strike in in wich you quicly cancel a regular move in order to get more range for youre throws.Well this also works in CvS2 to get more range for some special moves and command grabs.This glicth seems to work best with TODO because his s.FP and s.RH both take big steps.Now knowing this you cancelquickly cancel into his hcb+p in order to get more range so that when you perform this move TODO just doesnt stand in one though the animation,instead youll him take a step forward as he goes in the grab.You can also do this with his FB to give it more range.This works best with TODO because he doesnt have any moves that involve a kick therefore illminating any accidental or unwanted special attacks.ILl get into more detail later on when I can.

PEACE OUT!!

[KING]

CvS2 Kara-canceling?

Huh? :eek: :confused: :eek:

[FlamingJackass]

oooooh that can be very deadly a groove todo right there.

[MuziKal]

it works in any groove with anybody

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

This has been in ever SF game to my knowledge.

[GeekBoy]

I've heard of this before and done it, I don't see many people really employ it. And if I remember right, the motion for the kara cancelled command throw (try saying that 3 times fast) for Todo is: F, DF, D, DB+FP, B+FP

[WYLDFYRE]

you can only cancel into special moves right. you cant cancel into a regular throw? are there any other specific characters that can benefit from this? i know almost all of the characters can benefit from this in certain situations, but are there some that can kara cancel their all of their moves and in a relatively safe manner?

[selfscience]

geese can use this. you can easily cancel his toward fierce into any special/super move. this works very well after knockdown. just knock them down, then perform the toward fierce when they are about to get up. you can either cancel the punch into a counter if they attack, cancel it to raging storm as a suprise tactic, or let the fierce hit and buffer into fireball.

i don't use geese at all but i messed around with it and i think its useful.

[FlamingJackass]

you have enough time to cancel a toward fierce with a raging storm! wow.

[Ubersaurus]

My friend wrote this shit down like, 4 months ago on the forums and nobody listened to him. It's pretty cool.

[Burningfist]

Kara canceling is only useful if your not in a rolling groove/cant roll cancel.

Moves that are seriously helped by this:

Todo's command grab
Geese's reversals (sometimes)
Eagles HCF+Short (sometimes)

In 3S kara cancels were great, here they are just not that worth it, simply because roll canceling is way more useful.

[AMinorThreat]

Now i must learn how to Kara and roll cancel at the same time! w007!

[booda]

geese can use this. you can easily cancel his toward fierce into any special/super move. this works very well after knockdown. just knock them down, then perform the toward fierce when they are about to get up. you can either cancel the punch into a counter if they attack, cancel it to raging storm as a suprise tactic, or let the fierce hit and buffer into fireball.

No, Geese's fierce is special. Kara Cancelling (technically, it's Kara Throws and RC's are Kara Rolls) is when you do a move that moves a character forward, but cancel it into a command grapple. The effect is that it extends the reach of the grapple.

Does The Gief have a Kara Cancel?

[nakedjackson]

i was having trouble kara cancelling todos grab using both muzikals method and geekboy's method. I was wondering what time frame you have to cancel in (very early in the fierce? a little later? should i use standing or crouching fierce or kick?) If anyone can help, please feel free to do so.

[Robyrt]

Very early in the animation, but it works with any normal move. Kara-cancelling a Roll into a special is an RC, cancelling a standard normal move into a special is a kara cancel.

[nakedjackson]

is there any practical applications for a todo kara cancel besides range games and such? i use todo in K ( i know i should be using him in A, but ah juss cahnt do eet) and was wondering if it is worth using karas in my game

[Gandido]

Kara Cancelling is NOT just for grappling. Take the old version of how Iori could punish Blanka for doing a ball: block it, then towards + strong kara cancelled into fierce rekka. It was very inconsistent, but proof that it works. Kara cancelling just means cancelling something into a special/throw. Since throws are one button moves here, it's only into specials/supers, as far as I know,

[ben]

will this work for vice?

s FP <kara cancel> nail bomb

I know her s FP takes her forward, but I don't know if its cancellable.

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by booda


No, Geese's fierce is special. Kara Cancelling (technically, it's Kara Throws and RC's are Kara Rolls) is when you do a move that moves a character forward, but cancel it into a command grapple. The effect is that it extends the reach of the grapple.

Does The Gief have a Kara Cancel?

Kara THROWING is what you are talking about. That's 3S. Kara Canceling is general. Like how I build meter in P Groove with Rock by whiffing low forward canceled into a Crack Counter (well that's a bad example but whatever).

Zangief has a Kara throw for sure in S Groove. You can cancel his Dodge Attack Punch in the first two or three frames into an SPD or FAB.

[The Damned]

Originally posted by Mummy-B
Zangief has a Kara throw for sure in S Groove. You can cancel his Dodge Attack Punch in the first two or three frames into an SPD or FAB.

Would the S-Groove dodge cancel thing by an example of Kara cancelling then? I ask this since you used special or super moves as example, but since this is Zangief there are both throws. However, since other characters can do this too, does that make it a legitmate karacancel or just a cancel?

Example: S-Groove Iori's dodge punch (s.FP) XX Maiden Masher.

[tactics108]

in reference to the Vice question i beleive she rears back before lunging forward on the fierce, therefore it may actually reduce the range.

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by The Damned


Would the S-Groove dodge cancel thing by an example of Kara cancelling then? I ask this since you used special or super moves as example, but since this is Zangief there are both throws. However, since other characters can do this too, does that make it a legitmate karacancel or just a cancel?

Example: S-Groove Iori's dodge punch (s.FP) XX Maiden Masher.

Yeah, it is a Kara Cancel I guess. I just said Kara Throw since all Gief really has are throws. Typo

The only reason I distinguish Kara Throwing and Kara Canceling is only to distinguish 3S and CvS2. Really, they are one in the same because throwing in 3S is actually a command as opposed to CvS2. CvS2 changes a f+fp/fk automatically into a throw at a certain range, which doesn't make them command because you can't do them anywhere. 3S you can hit mp+mk anywhere, the throw will come out, it'll just whiff - like command throws in CvS2.

The thing about CvS2 though is, you use the canceling of the normal for more than just a command throw. You use it for command whatever to either (a) get a tad more reach, (b) get a tad more meter, or (c) both.

The thing about it is, in order to be a legitimate cancel, you have to start the animation of a normal and then cancel it before the hitbox ever appears. For command throws, this is good because often the normal animation triggers the block animation on your opponent, so if they hold back, they're immobile while you're canceling into a throw. Free damage. So with your Iori example, you'd have to cancel the Dodge Attack before it actually ever came out.

[The Damned]

Wait. You have to cancel it before it came out? This means that "buffering" it would have the same effect, correct?

I mean doing the motion for the Maiden Masher plus the punch button, which in this case is his dodge attack, as usual seems to always work for me. However, it seems like his dodge attacks always comes out and then cancels into the Maiden Masher.

Odd.

[Mummy-B]

It's kinda like buffering, but not.

For instance, using Iori as an example. His f+strong makes him do the step forward backfist normal. Normally, that's all he does. It is an unbufferable normal.

When you Kara Cancel, you do f+strong and *before the move ever finishes animation* you cancel it. Like Roll Canceling. The move never fully comes out, so the hitbox never registers, and so you never have a chance to hit your opponent with the normal. Instead, you Kara Cancel the f+strong into the Rekka and you take advantage of the few frames that Iori moves forward with the backfist to make the Rekka cover more distance on the inital hit. While the hitbox never registers (so you can't connect the backfist to do any damage), the animation still triggers the block animation on the opponent, and your super meter still registers it as a whiffed normal. Rock's c.mk also does this - if you do his B&B and you buffer the Hard Edge too early, the c.mk gets canceled before it can actually HIT your opponent and the Hard Edge comes out. But the c.mk did, in fact, start. If you sit in P Groove and buffer c.mk into a Crack Counter real fast, you'll never see Rock's leg stick out to hit anyone, but you'll see you gain meter for a whiffed Crack Counter AND a whiffed c.mk.

[The Damned]

Er... I will sound and obviously am quite stupid for asking this question but: What the hell is a Roll Cancel?

I have no idea since I have a) only started playing this game again very recently, b) have no arcade near me that actually has the machine of CvS2 to my knowledge, and thus c) have no competition. Not that any of those things still have to with me not knowing what a roll cancel is, but I basically haven't been keeping tabs on CvS2 because of those reasons.

[Mummy-B]

C, A, and N Grooves all roll. There's a glitch in the game where, if you do a command for a special (fireball, command throw, whatever) within the first three frames of the Roll animation, you pick up the invincibility from the roll but go into the special animation. So you do a completely invincible Hadouken. Or you can Blanka Ball through fireballs. Whatever.

Since the games runs at sixty fps you can imagine that canceling something at three frames is almost impossible to do manually. So it's usually done like d, df, lp+lk, f+fp. You're rolling your hand across the buttons, is the best way I can explain it.

But yeah. That's Roll Canceling.

[nakedjackson]

hey mummy, just wondering how much distance one should be expecting to gain with a kara cancel. Also, is the frame window for kara cancelling pretty much the same as the frame window for roll cancelling? (by frame window i mean the time you have between a F.fp->cancel, or a roll->cancel) For example, if i am doing the S.Fp->Hcb Fp cancel with todo, should i see the S.Fp animation, or should i cancel extremely early in the animation. I am doing the kara cancel with todo, but it doesnt seem to be doing anything. Sorry for all the questions, but i just want to make sure im doing it right. Thanks alot in advance.

[smoke]

Click on the Articles link and look up this great article on roll cancelling and misc.

CvS2 Kara Roll Glitch

It answers a LOT of the questions posted on this thread
and clears up some of the misconceptiions and ambiguity about what "Kara" really is.

It discusses the difference between "Kara" cancelling vs. buffering (and probably why fighting games made such a difference).

It explains S-groove Dodge properties for Kara cancelling (everyone can do this not just Gief).

It breaks down Kara Throws.

It totally breaks down roll cancelling (RC's).

It explains how and why they are used in games such as Third Strike and CvS2.

And there's even an FAQ part.

It's quite extensive.

[booda]

Huh, I had only heard of Kara Throwing. I'm not sure if I entirely see the use of other Kara Cancels. Does the collision box of the character just need to extend forward (meaning it widens horizontally) or does the character's axis need to move forward? I'm assuming there's some kind of axis that is used for aligning the animation of the sprites and centering the collision boxes. If you do a move that shifts this axis, then quickly cancel it into a special, then I can see how many moves can increase (or decrease) your horizontal range.

So the real quesiton is: which moves are the best for increasing your range? Since you cancel them in just a few frames (3 was it?) it's hard to tell where the character's position changes before the move is initiated.

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by nakedjackson
hey mummy, just wondering how much distance one should be expecting to gain with a kara cancel. Also, is the frame window for kara cancelling pretty much the same as the frame window for roll cancelling? (by frame window i mean the time you have between a F.fp->cancel, or a roll->cancel) For example, if i am doing the S.Fp->Hcb Fp cancel with todo, should i see the S.Fp animation, or should i cancel extremely early in the animation. I am doing the kara cancel with todo, but it doesnt seem to be doing anything. Sorry for all the questions, but i just want to make sure im doing it right. Thanks alot in advance.

I haven't looked at the above mentioned article, but all I know it it should be pretty fast. Like, you should see the normal begin to come out, but then it never does. Kinda like how with some Roll Canceled moves, you can see someone start to roll but then it goes into the special (best example I can think of is RCing King's Mirage Kick).

To be perfectly honest, I don't think CvS2 presents a great practical abuse for canceling normals. I mean, you might gain a couple frames of movement but it really doesn't do very much. Not worth mastering it, IMO.

[Renegade]

It's pretty good for gaining meter. Especially in C groove, when you gain 4 points for whiffed fierce moves.

I almost always whiff cancel fierces with rugal before I throw fireballs or do his air dark smasher.
(you can kara cancel moves in the air, too)

They used to do this all the time in Alpha 2, where meter was god.

[CB]

Kara throw my feirce biatch!!!!

:p

[kcxj]

Originally posted by coco savage
Kara throw my feirce biatch!!!!

:p

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

On a side note, there's no point kara-canceling Todo's command grab because you can just roll cancel it instead and still get the sick range increase.

[Orochi Masters]

How about Iori? forward+strong (moves him forward) cancelled into hcb-forward+P (Scum Gale), then combo into Fierce, qcb+Fierce x 3 (deadly flower)... and if you wish to, qcf+P to throw a gaurd damage rekka upon wake up.

I think that's quite good, but I think it'd be hard to kara-cancel into scum gale. It's worth it though... A-Groove Iori can just CC after Scum Gale. :evil:

Ok, I just tried it, but I'm not fast enough to cancel into SG off of a f+strong. If this is possible on a knockdown hit, then cr. RH might be a better option. :cool:

*edit*
Ok, I give up for now, either this can't be done on a knockdown hit or I'm too slow.

[The Dark Evil]

Originally posted by Orochi Masters
How about Iori? forward+strong (moves him forward) cancelled into hcb-forward+P (Scum Gale), then combo into Fierce, qcb+Fierce x 3 (deadly flower)... and if you wish to, qcf+P to throw a gaurd damage rekka upon wake up.

I think that's quite good, but I think it'd be hard to kara-cancel into scum gale. It's worth it though... A-Groove Iori can just CC after Scum Gale. :evil:

Ok, I just tried it, but I'm not fast enough to cancel into SG off of a f+strong. If this is possible on a knockdown hit, then cr. RH might be a better option. :cool:

*edit*
Ok, I give up for now, either this can't be done on a knockdown hit or I'm too slow.

yes i believe some command normals cannot be canceled