Comic book thread - version...???

[Taichi]

I don't know who Gert is, but you've said his name, like ten times......

so, I implore you, who is Gert.....it would seem he has something to do with the Runaways, but I'm just getting into Marvel, and thus, I'm not sure......

[DrumlinerJoe]

I don't know who Gert is, but you've said his name, like ten times......

so, I implore you, who is Gert.....it would seem he has something to do with the Runaways, but I'm just getting into Marvel, and thus, I'm not sure......

She is actually Getrude Yorkes, daughter of evil time travellers. She has a telepathic raport with a raptor-like dinosaur (forgive me, I don't know the correct spelling).

Pick up the Runaways digests. They collect six issues apiece and are really a great value. I got them for my sister and she loves them. It really is a great read.

EDIT: Oh yeah Warlock, what's your thoughts on why Nico's gonna bite it? I certainly hope not cause she's actually my fave.

[FreddyL0c0]

allllrriiiigghhhhtttt

New Avengers was total crap......totally pointless issue/plot. Bendis must have realized how un-related to civil war his post house of m "epic" was and decided to just finish it up quick and ridiculously.

Justice was alright, better than last issue, but still slow progression. Joker's line was classic though.

Astonishing X-Men was fucked up. Seriously, Wolverine ownnnnnnsss in this issue hahahahaha. Hellfire were fire here, Shaw vs Colossus was great. Beast was Beastly and euh, this issue rocks

Finally, Ultimates 2....damn.

issue 12 is sooooooo far awayyyy god damnit.

[Sano]

New Avengers was funny. Does anyone remember that Magneto's real name isn't Eric Lensheir? During Claremont's most recent Uncanny X-Men run (just before Morrison on New X-Men) there was a story where he found the person that forged his birth certificate, all of those documents and that fake Erik name, and Magneto killed him so no one would ever know his real name. Magnus is an alias too. His real name is unknown, well, despite what the new crop of Marvel Universe books say, maybe that story was over-turned under the table.

Well, for no-prize purposes, it was a Homo Sapien who gave him that name, the one who forged his documents, and Homo Sapiens have called him by that name, so if you look at it that way New Avengers doesn't have to be wrong or anything.

Though I guess if they ever do a story of young Magneto in the concentration camp as a child called Erin Lensheir in the comics than Claremont's story is definitly out the window (if it isn't already.)

I thought New Avengers was an okay read, but sure added to the whole Xorn confusion ordeal...

[Adam Warlock]

New Avengers was funny. Does anyone remember that Magneto's real name isn't Eric Lensheir?
Yup. Everyone else seems to have conveniently forgotten.

[Zephyranthes]

I thought New Avengers was an okay read, but sure added to the whole Xorn confusion ordeal...

To keep things straight, just disregard anything Claremont wrote post-1991. Makes things a heck of a lot easier. There is only one Xorn, and that was Magneto's identity. The real Magneto is dead. He got his head chopped off. Thus, there is no more Xorn, either.

[P. Gorath]

i agree with zeph. i discount any astonishing retcons too

[Sano]

Lol, didn't we have this conversation in the original Comic book thread? I don't mind Morrison Magneto not being Magneto because I don't want Magneto going down like a punk. Now if they would of killed Magneto after X-Men 1,2 and 3, or when Asteroid M blew up or when Genosha blew up, I wouldn't have a problem with that. But Cyclops walking up to him and blowing his brains out, him being shot in the back by Fantomex, no just no. Magnetic Force Field anyone? :rofl: We are talking about a guy who can freeze the iron content in your blood like he did during Illyana's funeral, and rip you to shreds by doing this like he did to the Neo, just how bad was that drug Kick screwing with him...

Everything else Morrison did was legendary, except that, so I don't mind them over-turning it, but there were about a bazillion other/better ways to do it/bring him back than to say it wasn't Magneto, that was kind of silly but eh. And everyone who kinds of adds to this retconning, there being more than one Xorn, and now Bendis' little addition to it, well it keeps getting sillier and sillier.

[ViciousSLASH]

Yeah the Retcon of Morrison's run was plenty lame.

He did some crazy ass shit with the X Men, and everyone got all pissed about it.

I remember I was bitching, but then I was stupid, I mean the X Men aren't about fighting villians and shit, there is so much more that could be done with them that it's not even funny.

Some writer needs to man up and make Iceman a pimp instead of always being "Omg, I am so nervous, my powers are scary"

[m121akuma]

Astonishing was too good. I guarantee, you have never, EVER, seen Logan like this before.

[FreddyL0c0]

Astonishing was too good. I guarantee, you have never, EVER, seen Logan like this before.


yeah i was shocked as well
Logan at his BEST!

[box]

Picked up New Avengers, Astonishing X-men and Justice.

New Avengers was pretty crappy. It was very crappy for those of us who have no idea what the hell Xorn is/was.

Astonishing was good. I enjoy the little Shadowcat tribute to Wolvie on the last page.

Justice was good as well. The heroes sure are taking a beating in this series but things are starting to look better.

[flyboyz2000k]

I read the runaways a long time ago and i recently had to reread it, but now I remember why I didnt like it as much. To make it simple those runaway kids are childish and idiotic. I mostly liked the fact that they are in LA and it gives a whole new change to the NY scene. Also cloak and dagger is fun to see in the series. Alot of characters acted out of place though. Emma just seemingly let powerhouse stay with the runaways while all the other mutants had to be contained. They keep acting like victor is seemingly going to destroy them at any moment. Also if these kids were really doing waht they were doing then Shield would be all over them like white on rice. I am looking forward to the civil war crossover with young avengers. Also when they were trying to resurrect the pride I felt that Alex should have been braught back instead of his father, but I think that could go either way.

[Sheng-Long]

goddamn ASTONISHING !!
lives up to its name.

speculations/SEMI-SPOILERS: (highlight to read)






Who is Perfection? Who is destined to destroy the breakworld?
With the revival of Colossus, I'm leaning towards Magik being Perfection. I don't think Whedon will revive him for no reason, he's not Claremont.

Other candidate: Madelyn Pryor? I dunno when she last appeared so I'm not sure

[Taichi]

52 Spoilers Ahead:















Ralph Dibny outs Booster as a fraud, in retaliation for Booster knowing what happened to Sue (due to him being from the future) and not contributing any help in the investigation, or coming forward and saying anything......

[P. Gorath]

im re-reading the runaways hardcover. i still call bullshit that anyone under 18 knows wtf the prisoner is, least of all enjoys it.

[ChairHome]

I picked up 52, Robin, and The Flash. I started my very first comic pull file at my LCBS!
Anyway, I like 52. This issue was a little slow, but that's to be expected from a weekly series from time to time, I guess. Robin is getting better, had a great first OYL issue, then kinda died down for me, but its picking back up and the art seems to be getting better. The Flash... one of my favorite heroes recently and this first issue gets the series going. I kinda knew who the Flash was going to be before I read it (from previews and stuff), and I guess its true. Can't wait for the next issue though...

[BEWD]

I know most of the people here hate spawn and all, but I'd like to know if anyone can clear up the Rob Liefeld scenario(I know some srkers cleared up the neil gaiman incident for me) I'm curious to know since originally, Chapel had killed Spawn, but for some reason Chapel was retconned and i hear it's because of the liefield incident. So two questions:

1. What happened with Todd/Liefield

2. Was Chapel written out of the story completely, or given a minor role?

[Sheng-Long]

I know most of the people here hate spawn and all, but I'd like to know if anyone can clear up the Rob Liefeld scenario(I know some srkers cleared up the neil gaiman incident for me) I'm curious to know since originally, Chapel had killed Spawn, but for some reason Chapel was retconned and i hear it's because of the liefield incident. So two questions:

1. What happened with Todd/Liefield

2. Was Chapel written out of the story completely, or given a minor role?

Liefeld left Image comics (and formed Awesome comics, or was it Extreme Comics?) and took his characters with him so there can't be anymore crossover appearances unless its cross-company.

[Taichi]

As soon as I can afford to, I'm gonna re-start a pull list at my LCS, or possibly an online service, so I don't even have to worry about it......

there's so many titles I wanna read (52, Shadowpact, All Star Superman, Green Lantern Corps, Civil War, Astonishing X-Men, etc.) that it'd be beneficial to just do it......

anybody recommend any particular online service?

[Zephyranthes]

I don't know, sano. I thought Morrison's Magneto was supreme. Just the big reveal, when Xorn finally takes his mask off, is one of the greatest moments in X-Men history to me. "X-Men emergency, indeed, Charles... The dream is over," was one of the best cliffhangers of all time. It was just one of those jaw-dropping moments. A total shock, and yet it made so much sense upon retrospect because of all the little clues planted throughout the previous issues.

And then the epic battle in Planet X felt like the greatest Magneto Vs. X-Men fight ever. All the stuff from the '80s and '90s - blowing up Asteroid M, and all that other stuff - I always thought it was kids stuff, really, the stereotypical epitome of "comic book violence." When Magneto fell in Planet X, I believed it.

If you can buy... Say, Fabian Cortez screwing over Magneto, then I don't see why it would be so difficult to accept Kick (or, John Sublime) damaging Magneto's psyche.

And yeah... I think we do pretty much have this conversation every couple dozen pages or so. That's what happens when a writer attempts to save his ego by disavowing over 40 issues worth of legendary comics with a throwaway line (that contains the word "IMPOSTER") in a single panel of a crappy comic book.

---

Did anyone else buy a copy of Giant-Size Hulk today? It's got three different stories, including a reprint of the difficult-to-obtain Hulk: The End. Hulk: The End is a great comic. I think it might be my favorite Hulk story that I've read, so I got a copy of Giant-Size Hulk today.

I also picked up the Fear Agent trade today. It's got art by Tony Moore (co-creator of The Walking Dead). Haven't read it yet, but I read the first issue when it came out several months ago and I remember I was highly impressed. Here's the story's "high concept" as presented on the back cover blurb: "When down and out alien exterminator Heath Houston stumbles upon an extra-terrestrial plot to commit genocide on humanity, he's forced to choose between the bottle and resuming his role as a peace keeper... As the last Fear Agent." That little line about the bottle is great. The comic's kind of a blend of science fiction, war, and horror. Really cool, plus it's only 10 bucks and in full color.

[P. Gorath]

on the other hand i thought that xorn was an extremely cool character, so if they are going to retcon they might as well say that xorneto based himself off of the real xorn and then the xmen go and rescue the real xorn and have him join the team

[Rage02fire]

on the other hand i thought that xorn was an extremely cool character, so if they are going to retcon they might as well say that xorneto based himself off of the real xorn and then the xmen go and rescue the real xorn and have him join the team


Yo Gorath did you check out Gargoyles issue 1 this week.......


I thought the issue is okay so far I'm not done readin it yet though.

New Avengers was a great way for mags to get his powers back if they choose to have him come back.

Ultimates 2 wasss FUCKIN insane, so man surprises came but you knew some of the would of happen sooner or later but damn. Now I gotta wait for another 3 months or so for the next issue.=[

Astonishing X-men FUNNIEST book of the month.:rofl: Cassandra Nova shows us again why she's a top tier mutie.

Giant size hulk was aight, and I read a lil bit of flash thought it was cool.

[Zephyranthes]

Oh yeah, I saw Gargoyles today. It looked pretty good, plus it's written by the creator of the show. I just don't want to start buying anymore monthly comics, so I passed. Hopefully SLG will put that stuff in a TPB eventually.

[Sano]

Okay, I can buy Fabian Cortez screwing over Magneto once(X-Men 1, 2 and 3) just the second, third, and fourth times I have trouble with it... "Hey Fabian Cortez, every time you work with me you stab me in the back. Want to become an Acolyte again?" "Sure Magneto. I'll be good this time."

Well I've been told by various people that I'm a fight junky, that I'd probably be happy if I sat down and watched a movie where people beat each other up for 2 and a half hours. My friend Susan is always looking for a story in everything and she says that about me all the time, though she's kind of a storyline nazi. I showed her the video of Gorillaz Demon Days DVD which showed cartoon images while they performed their album, she said it was great but lacked story. :confused: I think she was joking, sometimes I can't tell, she has that kind of sense of humor... but anyway, I'm kind of wired that way, always looking for great battles and fight scenes everywhere I can get them I guess...

So here's the thing with me. It's the death of Magneto he's depicting. It's X-Men's greatest villain (but not my favorite, I for one wish he stayed dead at least once) - this has to be told on a grand scale, an epic battle. Lots of X-Men members, a final showdown with Professor X, or be something as colossal as Genosha blowing up. You'd never see the death of Lex Luthor, Doctor Doom or anyone that grand carried out in such a way, Magneto came off as old has-been. I still feel there was a way to deliver us both, grand battle plus a great story and I know Morrison could of done it, he's done it before, (Cassandra Nova story was much grander) but it just felt short of it this time. It's just... told in such a way that you get the feeling it isn't his real death and someone is going to rewind the status quo and bring him back to life anyway. Well I suppose that's inevitable besides. Comic books always rewind the status quo of things because people don't like change and sometimes it seems new writers are scared of change too. I'm sure sooner or later a magic spell will make everyone forget Peter Parker is Spider-Man so they can go back to the way things were...

Xorn as Magneto was a shock and at the same time a dissapointment. Morrison said he wasn't going to bring Magneto back to life and was very adamant about it. Then he did it anyway. The way he died was fine before, his powers were shut down, Wolverine gutted him, and then when Morrison began his run Genosha was destroyed while he was on it. It really came off like he was getting rid of the old stuff - Magneto here - and starting things anew. But no, he still brung Magneto back to life. I hate hate hate it when dead people return from the grave in comics, though at least to his credit he killed him, again. But it lacked a severe explanation of just how he survived Genosha which brings us to the mess we have now...

Seriously, I NEVER want to hear Xorn's name in a comic book ever again... not because of Morrison though, because of everything Xorn related that came after Morrison....

BTW Days of Future Present was my favorite Morrison X-Men story. Silvestri >>>>> Quietly. Not that the artwork had anything to do with the story but I really dug it, how Jean Grey fixed the past was excellent.

Well that's just my unpopular 2 cents. I read Maximum Carnage again and I still loved it. So what do I know? Eh, nothing I guess... but Maximum Carnage had plenty of fighting in it... :rofl:




52 slight spoiler:

Oh nos why oh why oh why did Starfire go back to having the big poofy hair again... with her hair wet looking straight in the last ish she looked great. After the animated Teen Titans they started giving Beast Boy pointy ears and fangs, why can't they take Starfire's cartoon haircut too? The 80s are over, big hair is out... Seems like Turner is the only one who gives her straight hair, waaaaa....

[Agmaster]

I enjoyed MC alot becuase I'm a Venom head through and through

[Zephyranthes]

Haha, well you definitely get bonus points in my eyes for the Gorillaz love... RESPECT!!

But I think the way the whole Planet X thing went down was fitting. Magneto's story wasn't just told in the five or six issues of that particular storyarc. It was built up ever since Xorn was introduced. I also don't think that a grand finale of a battle with Magneto is required to involve a ton of X-Men. If Morrison brought in every X-Man for the battle, it would have felt more like an event than a story. (I guess I'm a story junkie as well.) An explanation as to precisely how Magneto survived Cassandra Nova's Sentinel attack on Genosha would have distracted from the story. It's not really important to the point, and it was most likely intentional.

And yes, Magneto does feel like a has-been in Planet X. I think that's the point. Planet X was more than just a Magneto story, it was also a bit of a commentary on the state of superhero comics in general (and the X-Men franchise in particular). What makes Planet X work for me is the deep tone of tiredness that permeates almost every panel. There's just this constant state of "Wow, the heroes are on the ropes, everything they've fought for is in jeopardy... Yawn." Repetition is one of the recurring themes. The characters keep mentioning that they're doing things they've done before again, and Fantomex even accuses Magneto of being a cliche. But it's the point of the story. All of the new stuff Morrison did with the X-Men- the leather uniforms, new mutant threats (C. Nova, Sublime), Cyclops character development, Emma Frost development - somehow, at the end, it all boils down to Phoenix dying and the X-Men fighting Magneto again.

I remember in an interview, Morrison even mentioned that he purposely ended his run at the same place he began his run, with Logan killing Magneto. It's the whole "circular" nature of corporate superhero comics coming into play. And you're absolutely correct about how they almost always revert everything back to the traditional status quo. Comic book fanboys, a cowardly and superstitious lot, tend to dislike change to characters. Maybe I shouldn't call them "comic book fanboys." I'll call them John Byrne Disciples instead. But anyway, it's impossible to ever write something GOOD and please the JBDs.

I have a strong feeling that Morrison purposely wrote New X-Men and ended it the way he did in order to make a mockery of the system. I mean, how can a guy come back to life after he gets decapitated on-panel? Obviously, Morrison knew someone would bring Magneto back eventually, and it would never end.

That's why I don't really follow particular titles or characters. I like reading runs by visionary writers whose stories have a beginning, middle, and end. That's one reason why I like Morrison's run so much. Otherwise, the comics just become soap operas that never end, and eventually they keep repeating themselves and I just lose interest.

Astonishing X-Men (and Ultimate X-Men, when BKV was doing it) has been the only X-Book to keep my interest since Morrison left. Today's Astonishing was great, too... "I'm the best there is at what I do. And what I do is..." That was easily the funniest thing I've ever seen and read in an X-Men comic.

[Rugal 3:16]

Secret War continues to be good, sadly I didn't like frontline...

This thread has got to be the one of the best x-men resources i've seen in awhile.

someone should make a separate DC thread instead..

Also screw DC..

after every crisis they always have this "explosion" where they go ahead and release lotsa ongoings and then nd up cancelling them in 2 or 3 years

Blue Beetle : gimme a break despite the good sales this had, it's another new character in an old role.. AKA Kyle rayner part ???

The Atom : So DC wants to globalize now huh? new Atom's a hispanic, nothing wrong there.. problem is Palmer was always defeated by cancellation and he was an established name

Checkmate: Post-crisis (1986) this could have been DC's equivalent to shield but they let the concept fade out into obscurity

Aquaman: sword of atlantis: who the hell cares about a guy who talks to fish in 22 pages.. kidding aside, i've read the book.. it's horrible.. no characterization..

and FAR more important than "no characterization"..

NO PLOT!!

The only ongoing titles DC needs are

Superman (The re-named original title from being "adventures of Superman" the volume 2 was cancelled)
Action Comics
Batman
Detective
Justice Leaugue of America
Justice Society (they should make one)
World's Finest (not Superman/Batman)
Flash
GL (cancel corps)
Teen Titans (Cancel outsiders)
Legion of superheoes

other A minus titles like supergirl, dark knight returns, Classified, the all stars should be "rare arcs" like Ultimates 2 etc.

back to marvel.

I prefer the Ultimate universe more than 616 because at least it feels fresh, outside of Civil War, 616 seems like trying to fit the ultimate mold but with a more confusing lineage..

as I always said, I don't give a F*CK about continuity (well I do but when it's an end-all be-all war of continuity vs good story) good story comes first, Nothing will ever touch ultimate fantastic four.. maybe zombie four will zombify the UMU.. and then they time travel back to prevent it again with *gasp* Magneto's help.

[Adam Warlock]

52 Spoilers Ahead:















Ralph Dibny outs Booster as a fraud, in retaliation for Booster knowing what happened to Sue (due to him being from the future) and not contributing any help in the investigation, or coming forward and saying anything......

That's not really true. Booster didn't know.

[Sano]

Zeph - Wow, great post man. I have a new found respect for the story. But it's still not one of my favorite Magneto stories but at least I understand what Morrison was trying to do a little more, thanks!

Yeah Gorillaz is one of my favorite bands. They like, rarely appear if ever, they are cartoon characters! They accept awards as cartoons, give interviews as cartoons and their videos are all cartoons. That owns so many levels. :smile:

[TheDarkPhoenix]

Ult xmen 71 was really good, I like this "new" x-men kid.....

Zeph i agree with you on the planet X thing as a whole. But i remember reading some of those issue's as they came out and just being like wtf?!?

Also Gorillaz are great! I have always wonder about there live show's....Anyone every been to one?

[Sano]

People who have seen Gorillaz live tell me it's kind of like how the DVD is, you don't see them, they are behind screens that show cartoon images of themselves and stuff. This was like after their first album or so when some of my friends went to go see them, I couldn't make it for some reason.

Though on the Demon Days DVD you do get to see what 2D looks like at the very end.

Uncanny X-Men wasn't too bad, they wrapped up the Psylocke story. And then that story lead to the Uncanny X-Men Annual, and the Annual tried to make the upcoming Black Panther/Storm merger seem not so out of the blue... but it's still out of the blue if you ask me...

Anyone reading X-Men Fairy Tales? I'm getting a kick out of Fairy Tales with an X-Men slant. The first issue was about the Japanese Peach Boy story(who they made Cyclops) and the second was another foriegn tale of a Tortoise and an Eagle who were a lot like Professor X and Magneto and it was similar to the uneasy friendship these two have. Good reads!

[Adam Warlock]

Anyone reading X-Men Fairy Tales? I'm getting a kick out of Fairy Tales with an X-Men slant. The first issue was about the Japanese Peach Boy story(who they made Cyclops) and the second was another foriegn tale of a Tortoise and an Eagle who were a lot like Professor X and Magneto and it was similar to the uneasy friendship these two have. Good reads!
In the second issue I LMFAO at the turtle when he got dropped. "AHH! MY LEGS!"

[The Green Trench Coat]

Uncanny X-Men wasn't too bad, they wrapped up the Psylocke story. And then that story lead to the Uncanny X-Men Annual, and the Annual tried to make the upcoming Black Panther/Storm merger seem not so out of the blue... but it's still out of the blue if you ask me...


thank you i'm glad someone aggrees with me this whole storm black panther marrige seems so sudden. they keep trying to add backstory to it with the storm mini series and such but man .. storm and forge should be together fuck bp he gets enough power-U from all the other girls that frequent his palace.

[Taichi]

That's not really true. Booster didn't know.

I hadn't yet read the issue when I posted that, I was piecing it together from what other people had said, But you are right, Booster didn't know, but he COULD'VE Known, had he paid attention.......

yeah, he's the worst history student ever......blah blah.....

on the plus side, the new Flash is decent enough.....

I don't HATE what they've done to Bart, but I wish he was still a kid.......he's really changed a lot.......

oh well.......I can live with it......

as far as Checkmate becoming DC's answer to SHIELD?, I can see it happening......it's a really strong title at the moment.......

[Zephyranthes]

Heh, Planet X is my favorite X-Men story, so I had to take a stand for it. Hopefully what I wrote was still grounded in reality and not the pretentious ramblings of a The Comics Journal fan. Wait. I wrote a few paragraphs about the X-Men. I guess I can't be pretentious... I win!

I, too, am a huge Gorillaz fan. They combine three of my favorite things ever... Britpop, alternative hip-hop, and comic books. The guy who designed the Gorillaz' look is Jamie Hewlett, creator of Tank Girl. I guess Tank Girl's not too popular in the U.S. (I think there was a horrible movie based on it, though). I read the first Tank Girl book a while back and the story didn't really stand out to me. But it's interesting because you can see how his sense of design developed.

At the risk of sounding like a tool, Gorillaz did a live duet with Madonna at the Grammys this year. They looked really interesting... I think they're using holograms now? Madonna was walking up right next to them, in front of them, and behind them. Looked like they had some depth. I have no idea what kind of technology that is.

Man, most of the DC comics now just alienate me. Everything's tied into some other comic and they try to tease you into reading 52 and Crisis and all these other "important" books. I do not enjoy that. Rugal 3:16 is right, man. New Blue Beetle, Checkmate, Shadowpact, Atom, etc.- I just can't really see how that's interesting to someone who's not a diehard DC fan and able to afford so many monthly comics.

At least when Marvel does their tie-ins, they're a little more honest about it; all the covers share the same design (House of M, Decimation, Civil War). That way I know what to skip! Ha ha. Maybe I'll still read 'em at the store. It's hard for me to want to buy them with my money, though.

But that X-Men: Fairy Tales stuff sounds like it's pretty good. How many issues is it and who's the writer/artist?

[Sano]

In the second issue I LMFAO at the turtle when he got dropped. "AHH! MY LEGS!"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

The live action movie of Tank Girl sucked...

Only 2 issues of X-Men Fairy Tales came out. Some info -

http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.440

[Toshin]

Hey is anyone from the Toronto Area and do me a huge favor??? I know this is super short notice but here goes...
If your a Flash fan ( like me ) , Friday June 23rd, from 4 to 8 PM, Ken Lashley will be making a rare in-store appearance for the NEW Flash #1/series at 3rd Quadrant 226 Queen St. W. BSMT (416) 974-9211
They have a limit of 5 issues you can get signed( + 5 more if your make a small donation )and CGC rep will be there for an offical witnessing + grading if anyone could help me get a few I would so be in your debt! Throw me a PM if your can help out or reply here! Thanks guys

[P. Gorath]

i think checkmate and shadowpact are quite good, as are jonah hex, outsiders and plenty more.

[TheDarkPhoenix]

My 1st steady dc book (outside of superman/batman 1-15) will be outsiders.....

Zeph I feel the same about the dc books I just get the feeling why should I care about "the green hat bandit" etc etc...Maybe its the corney outfits and cheesey names. I just don't know, but the only book that has really gotten my intrest from dc as of late has been the last 2 issue's of Outsiders.


On a side note the last issue of Exiles sucked badly...IMO
And anyone check out eternals?

[The Green Trench Coat]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

The live action movie of Tank Girl sucked...




Ahhh Naiomi Watts. I think that was her first movie. to bad it wasn't lori petty's last ... though i always thought Lori petty was a good choice for the voice of livewire in the superman animated series.

[Nemesis00]

Because of all this Morrison talk I'm gonna slowly pick up his entire run.

[Zephyranthes]

Wow, Kyle Baker is doing the Fairy Tales comic? That sounds pretty good.

I'm sure DC has some good comics, it's just that none of them make me feel welcome. I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the DC characters, and sometimes I'm still wondering why I should care about... Blue Devil? The new Blue Beetle? Detective Chimp? Okay, a talking monkey with a magnifying glass, I give props to DC for that. Every good comic can only be bolstered by the presence of talking monkeys.

But still. It just feels like all these old forgotten characters are just being tossed into "important" storylines just because DC doesn't want people to forget about them. And new characters are introduced as spin-offs to Crisis and all this stuff. The whole process just seems forced and even a bit artificial. The comics have mostly felt like events, not stories. It must be great for people who are already really into DC, but it seems like this approach must alienate people who aren't DC diehards.

Ambush Bug and Lobo will rise again.

[akumatrunigga]

As soon as I can afford to, I'm gonna re-start a pull list at my LCS, or possibly an online service, so I don't even have to worry about it......

there's so many titles I wanna read (52, Shadowpact, All Star Superman, Green Lantern Corps, Civil War, Astonishing X-Men, etc.) that it'd be beneficial to just do it......

anybody recommend any particular online service?
Midtown comics website is pretty good

[Pained Auron]

am i the only one that picks up annihilation books?

[P. Gorath]

i need to find a bookstore that has some cable/deadpool trades...ive been meaning to check that series out. I'm also thinking of diving into some Essentials...does anyone collect these? I'm eyeing the punisher and the marvel handbooks.

[maxx]

am i the only one that picks up annihilation books?

im waitin for trades

[FreddyL0c0]

I think Cyclops could end up being the destroyer of worlds when he re-awakens from Emma's therapy....though that Magik theory sounded very nice. Hopefully its not Kitty Pryde, although shes pretty cool (that last page was great, however i wonder how she'll manage to get to the mansion quickly enough if she plans to exact revenge)

Also, I believe the S.W.O.R.D. mole to be that dragon pet of hers, or maybe Blindfold, who has been truly bizarre thus far.

[Reckless Fire]

I want to read Spider-Man Unmasked. Which comics do I need to buy?

[Rage02fire]

I want to read Spider-Man Unmasked. Which comics do I need to buy?


CIVIL WAR NUMBER FUCKING 2 padre.

[m121akuma]

i need to find a bookstore that has some cable/deadpool trades...ive been meaning to check that series out.
Good luck finding them. A new Civil War tie in starts next month though, so it should be a good place to jump in. The writing is simply BRILLIANT. My personal favorite comic on the market.

[TheDarkPhoenix]

I want to read Spider-Man Unmasked. Which comics do I need to buy?


spiderman 531 and 532 civil war #2 (Mines well get issue 1 as well...) and thunderblots 103 all those deal with unmask.

The Main books are 531 and 532 and civil war#2

[TheDarkPhoenix]

am i the only one that picks up annihilation books?

I get every book sofar im really liking Superskrull and Ronan.

[Rage02fire]

I get every book sofar im really liking Superskrull and Ronan.

LAWL that's funny I pick up the opposite books, I like Nova though the most.

I'm gonna get Ronan and SuperSkrull when they're in trades.

[Zephyranthes]

Yo, anyone else check out this preview of Criminal?

http://comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=7650

It's coming out this Fall, according to the article. Ed Brubaker, the main man. And Sean Phillips, one of my favorite artists. I'm definitely going to violate my oath of "no monthly comics" just so I can buy every issue of this as they come out. I'm excited.

[ViciousSLASH]

OMG, comic book friends, come along with VS, as he quests to earn his dream of becoming a professional comic book art person !

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3200724&postcount=171

Fuck the Ultimates for the damn cliffhanger. I HATE YOU ULTIMATES.

[Pained Auron]

OMG, comic book friends, come along with VS, as he quests to earn his dream of becoming a professional comic book art person !

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3200724&postcount=171

Fuck the Ultimates for the damn cliffhanger. I HATE YOU ULTIMATES.


Vicious lies

[Rage02fire]

OMG, comic book friends, come along with VS, as he quests to earn his dream of becoming a professional comic book art person !

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3200724&postcount=171


Not Bad V Slash, I say you should send that in to all the comic companies when your finished with the project.

See what they think of it, if it turns out good to them you may go big on this.:tup:

[Taichi]

Midtown comics website is pretty good

yeah, looks like Midtown is what I'm gonna go with......

[The Damned]

Dammit. It would appear that this thread has become unsubscribed again. I should have known, since I thought it weird that no one was responding yesterday, especially with the excellence that is Astonishing X-Men have come out yesterday.

I have to agree with Zephyranthes: the Wolverine scene is easily the funniest thing I've seen in comics that I can remember. It was even funnier than that ridiculous costume hallucination that Cyclops had after he got shot in "The Cure" arc.

But, on to "The Lists" of what I got yesterday before I go any further:

From Isotope:


Astonishing X-Men #15
Young Avengers Special #1 (It's an apparently not-new one shot.)
New Avengers #20
Books of Doom #2-4, 6


Then, I went to Jeffreys to get:


Books of Doom #5
Spider-man Loves Mary Jane #1, 3, 4


I doubt I'm continue as much money as I've been spending in the last two or so weeks, even if I finally get a blasted job.

Anyway, back on topic, I've only read the the first three comics.

New Avengers was confusing with the whole "XORN!" outburst. How the hell is The Collective one person when it was supposed to be bursted by Wanda's fucking with mutant's powers? "Xorn" existed before then, unless she retconned something again, deluding it until thinking it was the entity called "Xorn".

Holy shit. Did Wanda create a "Stand Alone Complex" that I can actually understand?

Whatever finally happened to Scarlet Witch anyway? Or Professor X for that matter? Or any of those other people that were in the Genosha Excalibur?

Speaking of Scarlet Witch, I rather liked the Young Avengers. It was at least interesting, though I think I spoiled myself a bit with Wikipedia--I already knew you know who were gay, but beyond that.... Still, maybe I'll by that Sidekicks TPB...if there is one.

Now, for the grand finish:

Astonishing was simply...astonishing; yes, that's such a lame pun.

But, really, I would totally made avatar of several panels in the comic if they had larger space; maybe I'll make a Sebastian Shaw one.

Before I go any further, though, I have to ask: When did Astonishing come back from hiatus? I'm going to try and find #13 and #14 on Saturday if I have the money. (For that matter, I thought that Ultimates was ending? What happened there?)

Now, back to the comic yesterday, yet another question: Has it yet been explained how Cassandra regained her "regular" body when she was supposed to be Ernst?

Yet another question: What's Nagasonic Teenage Warhead's powers? Is she another "Purple Man"--it took me forever to realize what that meant and I read the comic twice before figuring it out via Wikipedia--like Kitty thought?

Besides that, there's a lot of speculation. Are we going to start another list on who is the "Destroyer of Worlds", who's the mole, who is Perfection, and who is going to be lost like Blindfold predicted?

If we are, then I think, in order, it's: Cassandra, Blindfold, Lady Mastermind (since Hellfire seems to have a more psychics, at least if NTW is a "Purple Man"; besides, we'd all like to forget X-Treme X-Men existed unless we like Rachel), and, maybe, Piotr (if Whedon is ballsy enough to kill him so soon after resurrecting him) because of how horribly he was kicking the crap out of Mister Shaw.

Gee. I hope that didn't spoil anything.

[Kim Sue-il]

After Civil War #2, all I can read now from Marvel is Cable/Deadpool and Planet Hulk.

[Zephyranthes]

TheDamned- At the end of House of M, Scarlet Witch went AWOL. She is most likely without her mutant powers and was last scene in what I assume to be Eastern Europe. I don't think anyone in the Marvel world knows where she is. (But to tell the truth, I haven't read every single Decimation comic, so maybe she's shown up in another comic.)

Professor X also went missing at the end of House of M. He recently reappeared in Brubaker's X-Men: Deadly Genesis miniseries (6 issues, and I think it's pretty good). Don't wanna spoil anything else for you unless you want to be spoiled. Xavier's also slated to be one of the characters in Brubaker's Uncanny X-Men run when he takes over very soon.

I don't really understand what happened in New Avengers. Perhaps Marvel or Claremont or Bendis thought there was something to "fix." But nothing was broken with Grant Morrison's New X-Men and there was nothing to be "fixed."

I actually didn't think The Collective story was very good. It was an okay superhero action story, but not much else. What also irked me was that Deodato's artwork was not up to the standards I expected from him. I thought his work was really strong when he drew Amazing Spider-Man, but these past few issues on Avengers have been nasty... No, not just nasty... NAESTY. Maybe it was a deadline or the inker. I don't know.

Plus, in this week's issue, Young Vision didn't appear in the first few pages while the entire group of heroes investigates Genosha. Then, when they get surrounded, all of a sudden, Vision is right there with them! I don't know about the rest of you, but I almost forgot that Vision was with the group because I hadn't read the previous issue in a long time. It was just a weird moment because it seemed every other character had something to say or do except for Vision... Until they get surrounded and he appears right outta thin air. Even though technically, he was with them the whole time. It seemed kinda sloppy to me.

Astonishing came back maybe 5 months ago? These past few issues have been released every two months. I believe the next couple of issues will also be bi-monthly, and then when Cassaday clears up his schedule a bit more, the book should return to being monthly.

Ultimates is ending. It was supposed to be 12 issues long, but if I'm not mistaken, I think Millar and Hitch wanted to extend it to 13 issues, like the first volume. I guess there's just too much stuff they want to wrap up and they need the extra pages. What's really nice is that most of these issues already have more than 24 pages, so the hardcover should be nice, thick, and pulsating with sexual goodness.

Not too sure how Cassandra Nova gained her current form. Don't know if it's been explained yet, but I guess I didn't care because she made Logan, well, heh, y'know... Yeah. I can wait for the explanation. And if one never comes, I'll just assume it was, as Claremont would write it, an IMPOSTER.

I'm not too sure about Negasonic Teenage Warhead's powers, either. I think they're still rather loosely defined at this point. Most likely, she's a psychic of some sort. In her first appearance during E Is For Extinction, she was in Emma's psychic class. Minutes before the wild Sentinels decimated Genosha, NTW said something about how she had the same nightmare 50 times in a single night and predicted that Genosha would die. And then, of course, Genosha died. So I gotta figure she's got clairvoyance or some kind of psychic power.

---

Hey ViciousSLASH, your drawings are looking pretty. They remind me of a lighthearted manga feel. I get a good idea about the flow of the story and the fight scene from those layouts. I hope you post your final drafts when you are done with them because I would like to see them.

[Rugal 3:16]

Wow, Kyle Baker is doing the Fairy Tales comic? That sounds pretty good.

I'm sure DC has some good comics, it's just that none of them make me feel welcome. I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the DC characters, and sometimes I'm still wondering why I should care about... Blue Devil? The new Blue Beetle? Detective Chimp? Okay, a talking monkey with a magnifying glass, I give props to DC for that. Every good comic can only be bolstered by the presence of talking monkeys.

But still. It just feels like all these old forgotten characters are just being tossed into "important" storylines just because DC doesn't want people to forget about them. And new characters are introduced as spin-offs to Crisis and all this stuff. The whole process just seems forced and even a bit artificial. The comics have mostly felt like events, not stories. It must be great for people who are already really into DC, but it seems like this approach must alienate people who aren't DC diehards.

Ambush Bug and Lobo will rise again.

Yup for someone who HAD been a loyal DC-ite for the past 5 yrs or so.. there has to be something wrong when someone like me (who fills the above category) buys MORE MARVEL nowadays..

my era of brand loyalty is over.. I buy whatever entertains me (though truth be told I STILL Hate the x-universe and the concepts of mutants being hated in a world superheroes aren't plus all the dramatic who F*cked who and what happened to who, -filled conversations which would appeal to the 15 year older) I just tend to be the with the "Heroic" side of Marvel (New Avengers, Fantastic Four, Spider-man [for all intents and purposes is acting more like the "confident superman" MUCH more than Superman has been acting for a long time] The Ultimate Universe (at least their Mutants is much more easier to swallow) and I still avoid all the mutie stuff..

I can't blame DC for wanting people to care about C-characters though, If you were in their position it would be WISE to expand the common knowledge beyond Superman, Batman and the JLA.

One thing IMO DC still has the advantage though is that it balances out characterization with structural plot, moder storytelling that's thought -provoking and a bit of "sense of wonder" that's always been a staple of comics but underplayed during these "gray-ish times" I mean I would still take a fine tale with Mcguiness art over people in leather that shows nothing but talking heads with either sexual or political themes (I mean if I want reality, why the f*ck would I read a comic) I still find arcs like Blitz, Secret of Barry Allen and Rogue War towering far above arcs like Planet X, That arc with Colossus' Return, Mystique disguissing herself as Foxx seducing gambit, as well arcs like "Wrath of Gog" far above "Sins revisited" while arcs like "Up Up and Away" equals "The Other" maybe not in 'Prestige arc to it's characters' but in quality... i've read them all

The advantage Marvel always has had though is that they always market their characters VERY brilliantly to make the average DC character look obsolete.. for example during the Silver Age, Marvel "Seemed" to have the advantage, "characterization, ongoing subplots, angst" but unbeknown to many (after reading TONS of Essetntials and Showcase Presents) so far ONLY The Fantastic Four has the plot and though provoking tools that rival most of the "character-less" silver-age DC but rich in plot, twists, and lets' say "stories that REALLY take advanatge of what a superhero can do.." and in only 7 pages so there's no "it's just like a human drama but add superpowers instead". I mean Yes I love Marvel-Age Marvel but an alarming majority of their plot has the same formula; new supervillain --> superhero giving thoughts about a past supervillain/subplot --> more "relatable" context --> Superhero gets attacked and Big fight scene --> after fight whether superhero wins or losses, epilogue involves sub-plots dragging along. again the exception is the fantastic four.. while the traditional DC silver age can't be measured in the same formula, despite the fact that the dialogue is annoying enough to disgust teenagers in reminding them about being under the authority of parents in childhood, they have alot of mechanism and they fully take advantage of their mythos that there are even stories that work WITHOUT a supervillain, sometimes it can be a hoax, the reader is forced to think in such parameters how the story will play out (again if you ignore the cheesy dialogue).. sorry it's becoming venting.. as I said "Better Marketing"

[m121akuma]

Yeah, New Avengers was a big fat disappointment. What I was hoping for was more Magnus character development, to understand how he felt about being human, and how he would act once his powers returned to him, after living as a human. Instead we got a retcon for a story arc I didn't understand in the first place. C'mon, Bendis, get your head in the game.

[Sano]

For someone who is both a Marvel and a DC fan I find it kind of ironic that some of you who don't really care about continuity and are looking for good stories can't get more into DC. They are actually catering to people like you and have been doing so since as long as I remember. They introduce Supergirl into this continuity, no one likes her. They just re-introduce her in Batman/Superman, a much better story and now this is the 'official' version. Much of what they do is go with the better story. Sometimes this seems complex as they point to a crisis to explain things like this but essentially it is very simple. For DC good story > continuity. Even the DC Universe book has a note in it something to the effect of, "Take all of this as you will, continuity is what you make of it." Which seems to be the attitude of some people here who can't get into DC sadly.

At the very least 52 is whitewashing everything, you really don't have to know anything about DC to get into it and the major facts are glossed over at the end of the book with Donna Troy anyway. If you still want to know more about some of the characters and if there's any confusion well, the internet's your friend, and so is Taichi. ^_^

Just my 2 cents on all of that...

[flyboyz2000k]

Fuck the Ultimates for the damn cliffhanger. I HATE YOU ULTIMATES.

Stop lying to yourself you know you love the ultimates lol. I agree with you though that cliffhanger got me pissed. Also I thought that the hulk was in the secret himilayas mountains facing against wolverine? I mean, it is suppose to be a 6 issue comic and they havent even got to the 3rd issue and all of a sudden banner decides to help the government who tried to kill him for something he cant control? Excuse me for my language, but pure Bull shit.

[Adam Warlock]

Stop lying to yourself you know you love the ultimates lol. I agree with you though that cliffhanger got me pissed. Also I thought that the hulk was in the secret himilayas mountains facing against wolverine? I mean, it is suppose to be a 6 issue comic and they havent even got to the 2nd issue and all of a sudden banner decides to help the government who tried to kill him for something he cant control? Excuse me for my language, but pure Bull shit.

^Which one of us is gonna explain this to him?

[Rage02fire]

Stop lying to yourself you know you love the ultimates lol. I agree with you though that cliffhanger got me pissed.

Ya the cliffhangers always suck when they take 3 months for the next issue to come out. You can blame that on the editors and Hitch though but mostly the editors. They kinda wanna change some of the shit in the storyline right now, I.E. abdul al-rhaman aka Colonel Iran.


Also I thought that the hulk was in the secret himilayas mountains facing against wolverine? I mean, it is suppose to be a 6 issue comic and they havent even got to the 2nd issue

The Writer was busy with the TV show Lost, If I'm correct he's one of the producers for the show.

Now since the season's over with we'll be getting more issues coming out soon.


and all of a sudden banner decides to help the government who tried to kill him for something he cant control? Excuse me for my language, but pure Bull shit.

Ya true, but Banner probably missed his home.

IDK how they're going to explain how he finds out about Grand Theft America, but w/e way he does and his reasons for going back it'll be explained in Ultimate Hulk vs Wolverine probably.

[flyboyz2000k]

Well I made a mistake and their are actually 3 issues out for ultimate hulk vs wolverine. I understand what you are saying rage, but I haven't read issue 3 of ultimate hulk vs wolverine so maybe there is something in their to hint his return to america. If anything though he should be on pym's side the person that saved his life.

[Nemesis00]

Hey VSlash, can you draw robots?

[ViciousSLASH]

Hey VSlash, can you draw robots?

I dunno, never tried.

And Flyboy, I hate the Ultimates. I hate them.

They are like crack dealers, they give me just enough to not go crazy, but not enough to satisfy my urge.

I NEED MORE.

Loeb and Madureria have pretty much the hardest job in comics following this creative team. There is going to be a huge backlash, watch.

[Zephyranthes]

Interesting post, Rugal 3:16... I think this may be the first time I've ever seen you post something positive about Marvel. Well, time to retire the thread, guys!!

...Just kidding.

You know, I just reread the entire Morrison/Waid/Kelly run on JLA a few days ago. I know what you mean about the plot-driven type stories DC favors (or used to favor). Morrison's JLA was all about zany Silver Age-style threats and ideas punctuated with cool moments for each hero and flashes of characterization. Most of his stories were three, four, or five parters, plus there was the ongoing subplot of Mageddon. It was all at a very breakneck speed.

Marvel does focus on plots, though. Just because there's a lot of pages where characters are talking doesn't mean the story is plotless. Daredevil, for instance, has been heavy on plot for years. There's a lot of talking, sure, but it's part of the tension, part of the drama that gets your blood pumping as you read.

Morrison's New X-Men was also a lot of plot, but he just found time to add more character development in there. His X-Men wasn't so much about heroes "sworn to protect a world that hates and fears them" as it was about youth culture and rebelling against authority. He basically updated the X-Men for the 21st century.

A lot of people don't like how modern comics nowadays are "written for the trade paperback." People use terms like "decompressed storytelling," which for some reason or other, has a negative connotation. Personally, I prefer reading my comics in paperback chunks, and while I can see how "decompressed storytelling" can be unfavorable, it really doesn't bother me as long as the final product is good.

The fact of the matter is that very few comics these days are One And Done Issues. The 22 page story is a lost art, but I think there are still writers who can write single issues that are part of larger stories and still feel packed as lone entities. Take Brubaker, for example. His Catwoman, Gotham Central, and Daredevil issues always felt like there was a lot of story in those 22 pages.

Anyway, if it's the sense of wonder that you're missing in comics today, there's always non-DC/Marvel stuff. I just read the Fear Agent book, and that's chock full of wonder and excitement. Godland, Invincible, Hero Squared/Planetary Brigade, Usagi Yojimbo, etc. ... Comics like those are the kind where you can feel the creators' passion.

---

sano, for me, I've been feeling alienated by DC because it feels like they care about continuity too much. It seems like every time they make a big change or introduce a new character, they feel obligated to explain as much as possible about the new character. Sometimes they even try too much to explain origins and try to make Pre-Crisis stuff make sense (Power Girl). Frankly, I'm okay if I don't understand where everyone came from.

One of Infinite Crisis' goals was to streamline the continuity again and smooth out any unexplained stories. It doesn't bother me when every comic doesn't match up. I would like to believe that most comics readers are smart enough to realize that when a company as large as DC has hired countless writers to write countless comics about their countless characters over a period of many decades, a little inconsistency is to be expected.

See, the moment DC showed us that Superboy-Prime could punch through the various fabrics of multiple realities, sending contuinity ripples throughout time and space, they lost my interest. The big problem I had with this whole deal was... THERE WAS NO IRONY!! I could not believe it when I read that Batman Annual that explained Jason Todd's return. I seriously thought it was a joke, but DC played it off completely straight-faced. At no time whatsoever did I get a sense of DC telling me, through their stories, "Yeah we know this is pretty ridiculous, but just have a laugh and enjoy the ride." I felt like I was getting spoonfed the definitive gospel of DC continuity.

And that's why, for me, lately it feels like DC is Story = Continuity. It's almost as though I'm being invited to read biographies of DC characters, rather than experience exciting and, dare I say it, iconic moments in a nonlinear series of adventures.

Of course, this isn't the case with ALL DC books. I'm not trying to make a blanket statement, although it probably sounds like one. It's just my feeling on most of the DC comics in general, at this particular moment in time. I'm not gonna start hating Batman because Superboy-Prime changed his reality or anything. Actually I'm liking Batman a lot more, because he's no longer "Asshole Batman." I'm hoping Crisis was just a hump I had to get over so I can read the kind of stories I wanna read, and so far it's been looking promising.

[P. Gorath]

the only thing that annoys me about the ultimates is how millar ends each issue with a one page splash punchline. too many writers are using this device lately and it is rarely warrented.

[Rugal 3:16]

Interesting post, Rugal 3:16... I think this may be the first time I've ever seen you post something positive about Marvel. Well, time to retire the thread, guys!!

...Just kidding.

You know, I just reread the entire Morrison/Waid/Kelly run on JLA a few days ago. I know what you mean about the plot-driven type stories DC favors (or used to favor). Morrison's JLA was all about zany Silver Age-style threats and ideas punctuated with cool moments for each hero and flashes of characterization. Most of his stories were three, four, or five parters, plus there was the ongoing subplot of Mageddon. It was all at a very breakneck speed.

Marvel does focus on plots, though. Just because there's a lot of pages where characters are talking doesn't mean the story is plotless. Daredevil, for instance, has been heavy on plot for years. There's a lot of talking, sure, but it's part of the tension, part of the drama that gets your blood pumping as you read.

A friend of mine also recommended daredevil.. But i'm so into "Captain America" very much plus with a limited budget i try to get what's really worth it.


Morrison's New X-Men was also a lot of plot, but he just found time to add more character development in there. His X-Men wasn't so much about heroes "sworn to protect a world that hates and fears them" as it was about youth culture and rebelling against authority. He basically updated the X-Men for the 21st century.

Any opinion I have over the X-men CANNOT be used against an argument , because it's not objective and mine does not have credibility because I'm not an X-men follower so I have barely a basis in the "X-Context".


A lot of people don't like how modern comics nowadays are "written for the trade paperback." People use terms like "decompressed storytelling," which for some reason or other, has a negative connotation. Personally, I prefer reading my comics in paperback chunks, and while I can see how "decompressed storytelling" can be unfavorable, it really doesn't bother me as long as the final product is good.

The fact of the matter is that very few comics these days are One And Done Issues. The 22 page story is a lost art, but I think there are still writers who can write single issues that are part of larger stories and still feel packed as lone entities. Take Brubaker, for example. His Catwoman, Gotham Central, and Daredevil issues always felt like there was a lot of story in those 22 pages.


That's the trend in marketing comics these days, despite my opinion to the contrary, if I were a businessman i would definietely write stories in this format too.. Marvel isn't the only one guilty about this.. DC F*CKING DC does this a lot more nowadays (look DC don't fit into a Bendis-style format because it doesn't suit you) Green Lantern's first arc, WW number 1.. FLASH number 1.. sheesh.

The risky thing here is although this is built up to keep newly formed readership into being hungry for more, OR interesting potential/new readers into hunting back issues or even just foirming interest, there are cases in which it also turns off readers (Superman's "For Tommorow" arc which made me Puke!! and this coming from an "old Fart" [AKA Superman fan] like me)

Also this undermines the POTENTIAL of single issue storytelling, since the dawn of trades or "graphic novels" to be more specific, everyone suddenly has the excuse to make stories longer, dragging, and even late deadlines.. Yes I do agree final product is what counts, but it would be unfair to drag the market into accepting that as a Dogma when the full potential of a single self-contained story can also have a good finished product. think of Amazing Spider-man Pre-Sins Past.

Also I noticed that there are people who use "obscurity" to this concept because titles like "Marvel Adventures/Age, and DC animated comics" fit the bill.. but let's face it.. they are Stigmatized, people tend to look at them as "un-serious" stuff and thus the single issue format gets the crapper. If Kurt Buseik was writing "Hidden tales of spider-man" (or something like that which is VERY good BTW) with lots of single issues that work BUT without the "read it if you're only interested" stigma, it can sell.


Anyway, if it's the sense of wonder that you're missing in comics today, there's always non-DC/Marvel stuff. I just read the Fear Agent book, and that's chock full of wonder and excitement. Godland, Invincible, Hero Squared/Planetary Brigade, Usagi Yojimbo, etc. ... Comics like those are the kind where you can feel the creators' passion.

It's kinda sad in which the two comic companies who have bright super-hero colors have to take a backseat to someone else rather than be an unchallenged expert at a craft they were originally made for (Again Spider-man these days aside from the funny humour acts more like Superman than even Superman.. for example.. at least IMO)

---

sano, for me, I've been feeling alienated by DC because it feels like they care about continuity too much. It seems like every time they make a big change or introduce a new character, they feel obligated to explain as much as possible about the new character. Sometimes they even try too much to explain origins and try to make Pre-Crisis stuff make sense (Power Girl). Frankly, I'm okay if I don't understand where everyone came from.

Yeah I agree, weren't they the one who created the hypertime concept (which I guess is now a product of Superboy's Retcon punch which makes "anything possible" and now they try to come clean.. but also maybe they're starting from square one... HAH good luck with them, dquare one isn't exactly a good idea against Marvel who has better marketing prowess.

BTW I can't ressist

Superboy Prime's Retcon Punch list:

ECW becoming a Third WWE Brand
Ryo Sakazaki becoming the same age as Terry Bogard
The Vs Series
Triple H turning Face
Big Boss Suddenly becoming the "original snake"
Hypertime
Jim Lee and Frank Miller's frequent creative Freedom delays


One of Infinite Crisis' goals was to streamline the continuity again and smooth out any unexplained stories. It doesn't bother me when every comic doesn't match up. I would like to believe that most comics readers are smart enough to realize that when a company as large as DC has hired countless writers to write countless comics about their countless characters over a period of many decades, a little inconsistency is to be expected.

See, the moment DC showed us that Superboy-Prime could punch through the various fabrics of multiple realities, sending contuinity ripples throughout time and space, they lost my interest. The big problem I had with this whole deal was... THERE WAS NO IRONY!! I could not believe it when I read that Batman Annual that explained Jason Todd's return. I seriously thought it was a joke, but DC played it off completely straight-faced. At no time whatsoever did I get a sense of DC telling me, through their stories, "Yeah we know this is pretty ridiculous, but just have a laugh and enjoy the ride." I felt like I was getting spoonfed the definitive gospel of DC continuity.

Yup or like being shoehorned


And that's why, for me, lately it feels like DC is Story = Continuity. It's almost as though I'm being invited to read biographies of DC characters, rather than experience exciting and, dare I say it, iconic moments in a nonlinear series of adventures.

Of course, this isn't the case with ALL DC books. I'm not trying to make a blanket statement, although it probably sounds like one. It's just my feeling on most of the DC comics in general, at this particular moment in time. I'm not gonna start hating Batman because Superboy-Prime changed his reality or anything. Actually I'm liking Batman a lot more, because he's no longer "Asshole Batman." I'm hoping Crisis was just a hump I had to get over so I can read the kind of stories I wanna read, and so far it's been looking promising.

LOL wait till all these newly launched titles IMPLODE!! I bet only Wonder Woman and Flash will survive.

Marvel is a marketing genius, Secret War that intrigues two possible sides (no matter what I think of the concept that was already used in the JSA's past history) PLUS they also have the Annihilation in which all of these are happening on earth.. an even greater war exists out there.

Don't get me wrong I did enjoy all thoise Rann vs Thanagar, Villains united and Day of Vengeance but F*CK as much as I hated House of M, at least during it's hype the characters have books in which specifically involves them.. you can ignore the arc if you want rather than DC's "If you want to know what's going on.. you have to read all of this and that.." SH*** I'm not rich.

[solace]

I'm bothered that Bendis & company bought back the bulk old man costume for Magneto. The Planet X/Avengers Disassembled Magneto costume was slick as hell.

[Taichi]

So, what's on your pull list?

for me its:

52
Shadowpact
All Star Superman
Green Lantern Corps
Civil War
Flash: The Fastest Man Alive

and when they relaunch, Justice League and Justice Society

I also buy Astonishing X-Men in Trades

[Nemesis00]

The guy that's writing Sensational Spider-Man and 4 is an amazing writer. Unlike most people that use the same shit over and over, this guy is pulling villains out of the past and using them correctly. Dude brought back Madame Web AND Shuma-Gorath.

[orochizoolander]

I'm new to comics as many of u know so i noticed there are alot of worthwhile spidey reads liek ultimate,the amazing,sensationals,etc so what which spidey comic/trade do u guys recommend i should pick up?

[Zephyranthes]

I like Spider-Man: Return Of The Goblin (by Paul Jenkins/Humberto Ramos) and Kraven's Last Hunt. Spider-Man: Blue is cool, too.

---

Ah, crap. I was just browsing Newsarama and I scanned the Joe Quesada column... Look at this little tidbit...

NRAMA: “Doombug” - Joe with the new 'Hawkeye' being confirmed, can you tell us where Clint Barton will be during all of this? Maybe a teaser to one of the Civil War books?

JQ: You should be seeing more of Clint by years’ end, you never know where he’s been but I bet he’s been having a devil of a time.

Pained Auron spoiled it for me.....!!!!!!

[Rage02fire]

I like Spider-Man: Return Of The Goblin (by Paul Jenkins/Humberto Ramos) and Kraven's Last Hunt. Spider-Man: Blue is cool, too.

---

Ah, crap. I was just browsing Newsarama and I scanned the Joe Quesada column... Look at this little tidbit...

NRAMA: “Doombug” - Joe with the new 'Hawkeye' being confirmed, can you tell us where Clint Barton will be during all of this? Maybe a teaser to one of the Civil War books?

JQ: You should be seeing more of Clint by years’ end, you never know where he’s been but I bet he’s been having a devil of a time.

Pained Auron spoiled it for me.....!!!!!!

Oh come on we all saw it happening man, but he it makes more since then having thor return as DD.:rofl:

[Wellman]

Ah, crap. I was just browsing Newsarama and I scanned the Joe Quesada column... Look at this little tidbit...

NRAMA: “Doombug” - Joe with the new 'Hawkeye' being confirmed, can you tell us where Clint Barton will be during all of this? Maybe a teaser to one of the Civil War books?

JQ: You should be seeing more of Clint by years’ end, you never know where he’s been but I bet he’s been having a devil of a time.

Pained Auron spoiled it for me.....!!!!!!

Doesn't mean he is DD. Quesada gave a hint it was but that could just mean Clint Barton is stuck in a hell dimension or something. It would be too obvious that the fake DD is Clint, not to mention it wouldn't add much to the overall story going on with Matt.

[P. Gorath]

tell me how new x-men vol. 3 hc is going for like 100 bucks on ebay, vol. 2 hc for 50-75, but vol. 1 stuck below cover price? im glad i bought these when they came out. the hardcovers are definitely the way to read morrison's arc, and the first one comes with a cool manifesto with some of his thoughts.

[KungfuJoe]

So, what's on your pull list?

for me its:

52
Shadowpact
All Star Superman
Green Lantern Corps
Civil War
Flash: The Fastest Man Alive

and when they relaunch, Justice League and Justice Society

I also buy Astonishing X-Men in Trades

ASSM I'm having a hell of a time with most of all the silver age retcons being thrown around.
CW is just has become very interesting especialy issue 2
52 is becoming boring real fast.
as for the rest I have not had a chance to read it yet.

KFJ

[flyboyz2000k]

Why didn't DC ever make any comics for batman beyond, zeta project, static shock, and Justice legue unlimited [future]?

All these would have been great comic series in my opinion, but for some reason they wont commit to make the effort in making them.

[Sano]

DC is only heavy on continuity if you pay attention to it. It's set up in a kind of way you don't really have to. Take what they say now and ignore what they said then. They've been around since the 1940s or so. The world, the audience has changed, A LOT. There are stories where Batman was arresting aliens. There were stories where Batman was held at gunpoint and he raised his hands up in the air. For a time there was a Gorilla on like every cover because for some reason it boosted sales. Yeah, DC broke the fourth wall a very long time ago in the 1960s when Silver age Flash met Golden Age Flash, it got super complex over the years so they needed the first Crisis, and even still you kind of have to take it as 'take as you will' because these are a hell of a lot of funny books to keep streamlined into one thing.

Seriously, pay little attention to continuity in DC. Enjoy the stories for what they are. With 52 and OYL this is what they are saying 'right now.' Later on they will say something else. Nothing they do is set in stone. I suppose if it bugs you for some reason well there's nothing I can say about it. They do offer about a ton of Elseworlds books though you can check out and not be bothered by any of it.

Something happens, they explain later, they move on. It's like what Marvel was trying to do when Quesada first signed up. In X-Men, New York City was destroyed. In Spider-Man, New York City was perfectly fine. In Thor, Asgard was hanging over the city for like a year. All three of these books went on at the same exact time without any explanation whatsoever of how this was possible. Never happened. Marvel just stopped doing this and eventually put all of their books together once again with multiple tie ins and so forth like they are doing now.

I pay more attention to continuity with Marvel for different reasons. Well they haven't abandoned it and they have not ever set normal universe over. They have gone back and changed a few things though, since they've been around in the 1960s so things change. In Fantastic Four #1, the reason they went into outer space was to beat the 'commies' in the space race. That's never been mentioned again, with 'X-Men and Fantastic Four' giving a whole new reason as to why they went into outer space, Reed purposely ill-shielded the ship thinking they'd get powers on their journey, to combat the flow of Mutants and super people. Iron Man's origin has been altered taking the Korean War out of it because it would make him too old. Things like that, they just haven't set their universe back like DC has, or maybe they don't because DC did it. I'm kind of like bug people about something if they set themselves up to be bugged by it.

Well, here's what both of the companies say about the continuity thing anyways.

"The DC Comics Encyclopedia spans the timeline of the DC Universe. The facts about characters's pasts, powers, and personalities are current, as of 2004, and since DC continues to publish monthly, some facts may change over the next few years. We've worked closely with the editors to make sure we're reflecting the right information, so if you remember an incident reported here, it probably means circumstances were retrofitted to work within the current framework of the DC Universe."

Kind of can't be stated more blatantly that they use retroactive continuity. Me I kind of don't think too much about that stuff when they have changed whatever they were saying before 100s of times. Maybe IC, 52 and OYL are an attempt to just stay with one storyline, but I'm not buying it. At best it will be one storyline for an entire year or so.

Marvel on the other hand, taken from the All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z -

"Once each book's list of profiles has been chosen, the writers discuss it and pick the entries they feel best suited to write. Then, they consult the Master List, a checklist of appearances assembled and maintained by head writer Jeff Christiansen, listing virtually every character in the Marvel Universe where they appeared. From this point on, our methods echo those established but the writers of the 1980s Handbooks, like the late great Mark Gruenwald. As he once explained, the profile writer reads "through the entry-subject's every appearance in chronological order, making notes of the significant data." Like the original series (albeit to a lesser extent), we sometimes "look at the various gaps in the data, be it a never disclosed real name or an unrecorded episode describing how an entry subject got from point A to point B where we see next. We then solicit original material from the writer and/or editor most closely associated with entry-subject. Writers and/or editors either provide us with the material we request", give us permission to suggest options to fill that gap ourselves, "or inform us that they would prefer to keep a bit of information secret. We are proud to have certain information appear here in the handbook for the first time anywhere." We also examine conflicting historical accounts (inevitable in such a vast continuity) or gray areas (such as who qualify as members of certain teams); and again, where possible, contact relevant writers/editors, to seek rulings or clarifications. We also consult previous Handbooks, but only after a first draft of each new profile is finished - partly to avoid short-changing owners of the original volumes by consciously or unconsciously regurgitating the older profiles, and partly because new research may add elements absent from older profiles. Regardless, we always check previous Handbooks, as the sometimes contain canonical information available nowhere else: physical dimensions, true identities, names of relatives, historical background and more have all been provided for the first (and in some cases only) time in older Handbooks. Once any such information is added, each new profile is submitted to the writer group for comments, proofing, fact-checking and revision, sometimes assisted by fan volunteers. Profiles generally go through multiple drafts, and our various sources are re-checked as often as required."

It's obvious that there is much more constant effort on Marvel to keep 40 + years of history all together. Do they mess up here and there? Sure, it's not an easy thing. But at least as of late unlike the early Quesada years they are trying to keep everything together. DC at best right now, they are keeping some of what happened in the last crisis, and what happened with this crisis and that's it. Me hate math but we are talking about under what, 20 years? It isn't that complex really. I do admit that Crisis/52 make it seem that way, but like I said, any confusion, google it if you care, if not just sit back and enjoy. Batwoman's alive now with a new story, no need to go look back on how she died or even really care how she's back. She just is, shrug, and enjoy some hot lesbo action with Montoya.

[Taichi]

ASSM I'm having a hell of a time with most of all the silver age retcons being thrown around.
CW is just has become very interesting especialy issue 2
52 is becoming boring real fast.
as for the rest I have not had a chance to read it yet.

KFJ

All Star isn't continuity, yo.........

it's DC's Version of "Ultimates" so to speak......

[Rage02fire]

All Star isn't continuity, yo.........

it's DC's Version of "Ultimates" so to speak......

No it's not my friend.:lol:

DC said that the All Star Universe was a universe where Writers could write whatever they wanted to with out worrying about continuity problems from IC or any other shit like that.

So basicly it's just stories that you CAN read and not be confused due to continuity. The stories can take place at any time or any where, now the only real writer who's using this ideal out of both of the 2 writers for All Star is Morrison. Most of his issues on AS superman have all been one stories, which is great to see again IMO. I hope any other future AS books that come out will do the One story issues as well.:bgrin:

[Taichi]

Well, it's not "ultimate" in that it doesn't adhere to a set of rules that define the "All Star" Universe......

meaning, if Superman shows up in All Star Batman, it's not the same Superman from All Star Superman.......

but, Miller has basically turned Batman into "Ultimate Batman" and Morrison has taken a different approach, and done the anytime anywhere thing.....

what happens in All Star doesn't affect the DCU Proper......

I chose Superman over Batman.......because I kept hearing bad things about it......

but after seeing All Star Batman for myself, I kinda wanna read it all, because it looks to be "So good its bad".........

Superman rocks though.......

[Zephyranthes]

I appreciate that post, sano. But the thing is, the reason I feel DC's too continuity-heavy is simply because they expect you to buy all their books to get the "whole" story. I don't like it when comics try to trick me into buying other comics that are only tangentially related. It takes me out of the story the first comic is trying to tell. I remember when they launched Firestorm, Breach, and Manhunter. All of those were played up to be Crisis-related comics. I didn't think any of those were very good; maybe I just didn't think the writers' work appealed to me, but I'm sure a small part of it was because they were tie-ins.

Maybe this problem is slowly being fixed, but the past few years it's annoyed the crap out of me. (Adam Strange, OMAC Project, all manner of Crises.) So maybe I just sound more bitter than I actually am. Mostly I'm just disappointed because DC keeps radically weakening my favorite comics (Catwoman, despite Bru's superb scripting, went downhill FAST the moment Paul Gulacy stepped on board) or cancelling them (Gotham Central, Solo). Yeah, that's probably it. Maybe.

At least All-Star Superman makes up for everything.

[Taichi]

I sympathise, Zeph, but that's just the way the industry is these days......

just pick a character, or team you like, and read only their stories......it makes things simple, and when a huge crossover rolls in, you usually find only one, or two issues are affected in any given title........

USUALLY.....OYL has the whole universe shook up.......

[Rugal 3:16]

For all I know All Star Supes still takes place in the "Pre-Crisis" universe (or at least in a psuedo-version where the Crisis and "whatever happened to the man of tomorrow" never happened) Lois makes references to "all the times she's tried to expose supes and clark being as one" there's also the weisingerian Giant Golden Key to the Fortress reference.. The Kents are dead. Luthor is not a businessman but a mad scientist.

All star batman takes place in the DK universe.. and I hate miller's writing these days.. so anti-heroic.. no substance

[TheDarkPhoenix]

DC is only heavy on continuity if you pay attention to it...... SNIP


Intresting, and altho i don't pay to muc hattenion to dc I guess that is very apparent to me in some manner of fashion and combined with other stuff. It just turns me off to em

[Sano]

Zeph - Ah, I see. Marvel is like that too only they are more subtle with it. I don't think anyone can fully understand Civil War 2's ending if they haven't read Amazing Spider-Man issues or Frontline. But Marvel is more subtle with it all. I only buy the DC comics I care about. During Crisis, the only spin off I cared about is Villains United, which I really liked.

Shuma-Gorath - Who was it that mentioned him in a Spidey book again, I can't seem to find the post. I've seen Madame Web in that Spidey book, but is Shuma-Gorath coming back too!!! Is that out yet? Good going, I've been going nuts trying to find any of like the very few comics with Shuma-Gorath in it but to no avail, it's like a previous Shuma-Gorath fan went to all my comic book shops and beat me to it... I need to read Shuma-Gorath in a story once for material for my upcoming crappy MSH vs. SF Fan Fic... :rofl:

[Nemesis00]

Shuma came back in a minor role in Marvel Knights 4. I don't know what issue it was, but it had Nicholas Scratch in it.

[Taichi]

52 may be boring, but I get the feeling that it's gonna pick up......

of course, when you have to plot a new issue each week, it's gonna get boring.......and stretched out, but I think some major shit is about to go down.......

[Sano]

Shuma came back in a minor role in Marvel Knights 4. I don't know what issue it was, but it had Nicholas Scratch in it.

Okay, I'll go look for that. Thanks!

[Vanilla]

---

Ah, crap. I was just browsing Newsarama and I scanned the Joe Quesada column... Look at this little tidbit...

NRAMA: “Doombug” - Joe with the new 'Hawkeye' being confirmed, can you tell us where Clint Barton will be during all of this? Maybe a teaser to one of the Civil War books?

JQ: You should be seeing more of Clint by years’ end, you never know where he’s been but I bet he’s been having a devil of a time.

Pained Auron spoiled it for me.....!!!!!!


Red Herring

[orochizoolander]

Heres some stuff i was thinkign of picking up so tel me if they're worth it:

ultimate ironman vol1

the ultimates vol1+2

dark knight strikes again (yes i have dkr n it was amazing) but on ign's 25 greatest batman gn's list dkr was #2 n dksa wasn't onthe list so wtf?

transformers generation 1 volume 2+3 ( i have vol1 n it was pretty good but not great)

Also are there any "must have" superman gn's?

[Sano]

dark knight strikes again (yes i have dkr n it was amazing) but on ign's 25 greatest batman gn's list dkr was #2 n dksa wasn't onthe list so wtf?



The sequel? There's a reason why it's not on the top 25. It blew chunks IMHO. It was an attempt to extend the Dark Knight Story to the rest of the DC-verse and it failed miserably. It even repeated the first book by having Batman beat up on Superman.... AGAIN via Superman not allowed to enter the Batcave or whatever (I tried to forget as much details as possible about the sequel so it was something like that). Remember the first book how it had beautiful water colors? Hold on to that memory as this one was colored with photoshop zero. Everything yall say about new Frank Miller and his writing in All Star Batman, it applies to DNSA times a million. At least I can enjoy All Star Batman for the pretty pictures. DNSA, the artwork is really in the gutter compared to the first book.

Dark Knight Returns the original was legendary though. Read that again and skip the sequel...

[Carpet Lint]

I have been trapped in a storage container fifty miles outside of Mexico City for the last month. I managed to survive on recycling my urine, and using it lure fruit flies, which I devoured. Eventually a donkey salesman called Guero Miguel discovered me, and I killed him and ate his flesh to absorb his strength and I hiked all the way back up to Toronto.

Comic books!

I have a whole stack of comics I'm going to have to take time out this week to get to. I'm like two months behind on everything.

_____


You know what Zephy? Fuck Infinite Crisis. I hated it. I hated that you had to read fifty seperate mini-series just to understand what the hell was going on, and I hated that you had to read a seventy two volume story they wrote like thirty years ago to even give a damn about it.

Old Lois Lane died? FUCK THAT BIIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH!!!!!!!!!!

And dammit, Marvel's doing the same thing with Civil War now too.

I've read the same scenes sixteen stupid times already!

ALL the Civil War books are exactly the same from page 5 to page 14. They're all doing something meaningless...then they repeat the stupid school bus explosion scene, everyone's cleaning up, Wolverine goes "NIGGA WHY YOU STALK ME!?!", the Sentinel goes "NIGGA I GOT KIDS TA FEED!!!!!", the Falcon and the Yellowjacket argue about who's the least coolest hero, Wolvie goes "the world ain't such a rosy place, bud!", the Thing goes "Fuck you, mutie!", and Tony Stark takes a drink and once again smashes us over the head with the fact that he's an alcoholic. Oops, that last bit's Ultimate Tony Stark. My bad.

I can write a Civil War tie-in in my sleep. In fact I already have. Liefield was on pencils and LIQUID! coloured it.

____________

Have we talked about Astonishing X-Men yet?

Possibly the best superhero book out on a semi-quarterly-annual schedule?

Please tell me you guys already went over the coolness of the old Dark Phoenix Saga Hellfire Club fight parallels. Fucking Joss Whedon's such a sneaky motherfucker that I didn't even notice it happened until I saw the last panel and thought for thirty seconds about why it seemed so familiar.

The beauty of this book is that it's so good on it's own...but the throwback bits are just bonus. The unspoken fast ball special in the first run and now this. Beautiful.

What Infinite Crisis should have done, but didn't.

FUCK, what an awesome book.

That's pretty much all I've read in the last two months though. I need to get back into this thread.

[Hokuto no Jeffro]

You know what Zephy? Fuck Infinite Crisis. I hated it. I hated that you had to read fifty seperate mini-series just to understand what the hell was going on, and I hated that you had to read a seventy two volume story they wrote like thirty years ago to even give a damn about it.

Old Lois Lane died? FUCK THAT BIIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH!!!!!!!!!
Agreed. All I got from Crisis was my fav gal getting fucked over because if there's more that two Bat females the market is saturated! And whose idea was it to make Batwomen gay and obtusely proud? I'm all for gay rights and marriage but this just ridiculous. I want my Batgirl back:crybaby:
This has been SRK's only Batgirl fan speaking.

[Carpet Lint]

And whose idea was it to make Batwomen gay and obtusely proud?
...huh?

This has been SRK's only Batgirl fan speaking.
The Cassandra Cain version? I'm the original fan, bitch. Did you read Robin #150 yet? I got a whole five hundred word post ready to fly on that one, but I'm working myself back into this thread slowly.

[Hokuto no Jeffro]

Then if you're ready, then let fly good sir! Seriously, is it that shocking that you have a sister whose some two-bit hired killer? That bitch wasn't even in Cass's league, so why the fuck does she have to get so pissed about it?! Really, if you're going to destroy a respectable chracter, do you have to use the daddy doesn't love me shit? Where the hell is Springer for this stuff! I won't be suprised to see Cass slowly melting while Kathy Kane and Renee Montoya fuck each other senseless in the background in the next ish.

And if you were still in Mexico, Kathy Kane=Batwoman now. She is officially lesbian now and a former lover of Montoya. For some reason gay pride is coming to comics, God know why.

[Nemesis00]

Carpet, read Son of M. Read it now.

[KungfuJoe]

All Star isn't continuity, yo.........

it's DC's Version of "Ultimates" so to speak......

Sorry about that what I should have said was morrisons use of all those wacky silver age ideas not retconing my era.

KFJ

[P. Gorath]

I believe that all the different mini-series leading up to infinite crisis was a very good way for new readers like myself to get into or back into DC. It allows you to get caught up on what is happening in every part of the universe and decide which you like and want to continue following. so far two good regular series have come out of the mini's (checkmate and shadowpact) and I have been able to get into other books I normally would not have like Superman, Wonder Woman, and The Outsiders because of the event. The bitching of all the books to buy has been going on since crossovers began, with the simple fact always present that you dont have to read/buy the books you dont want. period. There is really very little new information presented between Identity Crisis and Infinite Crisis. Practically all of the books have been dealing with Identity fallout of one form or another. Throw in the 80 page $1 countdown to infinite crisis and the short and cheap prelude to infinite crisis tpb and you are pretty much there. It's certainly easier and more contained than the pointless house of m spinoffs of which didnt even effect anything after their passing.

anyway, on to the original reason for posting. due to my joblessness my reading rate has accellerated and thus I finally finished reading every tpb I currently own. Dreamland comics is like 2 months behind on my pre-order of 4 books (age of apocalypse vol 3, seven soldiers vol 3, and two DC crisis-related tpbs) so in the meantime I re-read garth ennis's second volume Punisher series as well as the first volume of Runaways. Now there is no question in my mind that MAX punisher >>>> marvel knights

[Carpet Lint]

Then if you're ready, then let fly good sir! Seriously, is it that shocking that you have a sister whose some two-bit hired killer? That bitch wasn't even in Cass's league, so why the fuck does she have to get so pissed about it?! Really, if you're going to destroy a respectable chracter, do you have to use the daddy doesn't love me shit? Where the hell is Springer for this stuff! I won't be suprised to see Cass slowly melting while Kathy Kane and Renee Montoya fuck each other senseless in the background in the next ish.
That was pretty much the worst written story I've read in the last...I don't even know, like...five years - I'm struggling to come up with a worse story.

...actually that Uncanny X-Men story by Chuck Austen where the evil plan was to somehow secretly poison every single communion wafer in the world, causing every single Catholic in the world to vanish in a fake rapture, where then the evil organization would pull strings to have Nightcrawler appointed the new Pope...I don't know if you could ever top that one.

The funny thing is that all those terrible Chuck Austen and Chris Claremont X-Men stories were some of the worst comics I've ever read, and yet they sold in the top ten every single month.

Anyway...terrible, terrible story.

Spoilers, but I don't really care, since I don't want anyone to read Robin now anyway.

How you can completely shit on a character like that just boggles my mind.

I'm trying to think of a similiar situation, and the only thing that comes close is when they depowered the Juggernaut for some unexplained reason and made him a good guy. Juggernaut fans might have been pretty pissed at that, but at least becoming a good guy made him a consistent ongoing character and you got to see more of him.

WHAT THE FUCK!?! Why did they make Batgirl a villian? I bought the first two Batgirl trades and every individual issue after those, as well any other guest appearances she made in any other book - I think I've literally read every single comic book that she's ever appeared in. And DC just fucking drop kicked me in the balls.

At least Chris Claremont has the characterizations of his guys down pat. True, his stuff hasn't changed one bit since the 80's, but at least when he writes Wolverine, Wolverine is Wolverine. A bit TOO much Wolverine, bub, but at least HE'S WOLVERINE.

When you use a character in a story, isn't there a requirement that you have at least have at least read a single comic that they've appeared in?

What is this bullshit? She learned English? Just like that? On her own? "One Year Later?" Even though she spent like three years and seventy five issues trying to do the same thing, while being taught by Batman and Oracle and still couldn't do it? This sibling jealous nonsense? Why does she suddenly care about what Cain thinks, after spending the previous 75 issues explicitly doing the opposite?

It's not even the writer's fault. He's shit. It's the editorial team that let this happen. Who just decided "Fuck Batgirl, let's just throw this character away and never speak of her again. Let's just let this fuckface Adam Beechen do whatever the hell he wants."

All the Batbooks have been shit lately, by the way. That last Batman issue with Two Face comes close to the singularly worst written single issue I've read in the last year.

I don't think I could have been more put off by the crap DC's put out in the last year. I've whined enough about Infinite Crisis (not so much about all the required reading, but I can't imagine how anyone could have had any emotional investment in any of the stories), but this One Year Later shit is...shit.

I'm actually enjoying 52 a bit, but when you realize that it's like the ultimate Bendis type of deal ('cept without Bendis) in that it's essentially (I'm guessing) an 8 or 12 part story that they've meaninglessly stretched into FIFTY TWO issues...it's just DC fucking you through your wallet again.

And if you were still in Mexico, Kathy Kane=Batwoman now. She is officially lesbian now and a former lover of Montoya. For some reason gay pride is coming to comics, God know why.
And this just doesn't even make sense to me.

Who the fuck is Kathy Kane? I've been reading Batman every month for like two hundred issues and I've never heard of her. And now she's Batwoman?

Thanks, DC.

_______


And Flash #1 was terrible as well. It's like a tenth grader wrote it.

Oh his buddy's a playboy! Look at him chase girls and how cool he is and how he's showing Bart how to chase girls! He's chasing girls! He's a playboy!

I'm a new intern at STAR Labs! For some retarded, inexplicable reason, I MUST find out what happened to the Speed Force! I'm going to show up at Bart Allen's house for no reason - oh wow I've just become a supporting character just like that!

Remember, his buddy's a playboy!

When did I become such a whiny comic book nerd?

I like the Green Lanturn books though.

________


Questions for you, Zephy, and anyone else that may know...

1) Local #5 - is it out yet? Did I miss it again? Do these guys at my store even know what it is? Then why did they agree to pull it for me? And what's the deal with Super Market? I skimmed through #3 in the store, and I think I just permanently became Brian Wood's bitch. Should I wait for a trade?

I was kinda mixed on the first trade of DMZ though. ...it's not bad. Not enough motivation for me to keep checking it out though.

2) Alan Moore's Top 10 - how good is this? I'm hearing everything from "very good" to "very very good". Do I need to read this?

3) Grant Morrison's Animal Man trades - is Origin Of The Species the only one I need to read, or should I do all three? ...are there three?

4) FAAAAAAAAAABLES!!!!!!!!!111111111111

...that last one isn't really a question now that I think about it.

________


I also read DKSA...again, and I vaguely remember what P.Giddy (who likes the story) said about it before...and this time around it made more sense to me.

The story still doesn't vibe with me that well, but if you think of it more as a completely seperate story from DKR (which isn't easy nor should it even really be thought of like that), I can appriciate the angles he took on the story.

He was already doing the media overload thing in DKR with all the television news and talk show bits interspread throughout the story, and it's like he took that aspect of DKR and just completely ran away with it in DKSA.

I'm still convinced that Frank Miller and his wife were on LSD when they made the comic, and it wasn't really my type of story, but I've upgraded my opinion of it to "Not crap."

And as good as Welcome Back Frank was (and it was really goddamn awesome), the fact that I had already read Preacher, and had read it again somewhat recently before Punisher...it kind of watered down the experience for me. It was like...I don't know, having hamburgers after having prime rib the night before.

...I really like hamburgers though, so that analogy may or may not work equally as well for you.

And honestly, I don't remember much about Marvel Knights Punisher. The fact that it was so easily forgettable probably speaks towards the quality of it.

________

Carpet, read Son of M. Read it now.
I'm already waiting for the trade.

...I guess I'll just wait...harder...now.

[Hokuto no Jeffro]

[URpre-made letter in RTF formatL="
If you want Cass back, you can sign this this letter and send it to

Dan Didio
c/o DC Comics
1700 Broadway
NYC, NY 10019 (USA)

"][URL="http://www.savecass.com/"] (http://www.savecass.com/)
Good save Cass fansite.

P.S.: Kathy Kane was he O.G. Batwoman, circa 1956. Batman had a utility belt, she had a utility purse. Yep.

[Pained Auron]

fables sucks....................

[PimpC]

ecw's return might get me back into wrestling alsone with DX...........I find myself liking kof xi more than 3s, i feel like a traitor to capcom, but when the fuck is the last time they came out with a new fight games, fuck them.......i need a girl to vent to, these females i just deal with are not good.....i kinda wished i saw superman tonight at 10 but i have work in the morning and that shit would just not work, damn i don't want to go to work in the monring.

[Pained Auron]

ecw's return might get me back into wrestling alsone with DX...........I find myself liking kof xi more than 3s, i feel like a traitor to capcom, but when the fuck is the last time they came out with a new fight games, fuck them.......i need a girl to vent to, these females i just deal with are not good.....i kinda wished i saw superman tonight at 10 but i have work in the morning and that shit would just not work, damn i don't want to go to work in the monring.



wrong thread there buddy.







2 hours til superman returns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nemesis00]

I just read the Homelands trade of Fables the other day. Finding out who the Advesary is was priceless.

Quesada officially stated what happened with the whole Xorneto business. This is straight out of the wierd looking horse's mouth.

"Kuan-Yen Xorn and Shen Xorn were twin brothers from China, both mutants, one with the power of a star in his head, one the power of a black hole. Kuan-Yen Xorn came under the influence of as-yet-to-be-revealed entity that forced him to assume the identity of Magneto, battle the X-Men and destroy Manhattan. He was subsequently killed by Wolverine near the end of that battle, in the Planet X storyline.

Soon thereafter, his twin brother Shen surfaced and briefly joined the X-Men. This Xorn brother was de-powered during M-Day.

Because Xorn's powers were psychokinetic, and his personality was so strong, it basically remained an almost disembodied sentient thing among the big ball of mutant energy. When that energy got sucked down to Earth by Michael and all absorbed by him, Xorn was the dominant personality in the mix, and that's what drove him towards Genosha and Magneto. "
http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFrida...Fridays03.html

[regulate]

Xorneto snip


What? Im still confused.

[FreddyL0c0]

basically:

" New Avengers sucked, but we found a way to get rid of Xorn! hahaaha at u Morrison!!!"

[Agmaster]

What am I digging now? Ult Spidey and X-Men have slowed down, and up comes Ultimates and Ult FF (which I hated for so long but the zombie arc and the focusing on just how much Ben's life sucks brought me back), so Ultimate Universe is still doing good things.

Oh, and I gotta see H vs W to see why Hulk came back. I mean, I know why , but I'd like to actually see Logan get the crap kicked out of him. Yeh, I used to like Wolverine...back in 97. But just too much exposure. Go AWAY. Fuck it, man. I even like Cyclops more than him now, and I hate boyscouts.

Civil War is too slow of a burn but I am keeping my eye on it, wonder when it's going to move on past week 1, though. Yay, more Wolverine. *sighs* I wonder when Annihilation and Planet Hulk will actually have consequences on Earth.

CAD's 4th Wall (I finally read it, because British inrigue me) is funny. The issue was nothing special, but it was worth reading. By the way, did Cable in CW seem...dumb? "Kick ass?' Cable doesn't use profanity. Unless violently angered, or speaking of destruction. Yes yes, CW could be seen that way, but don't even play that game of semantics with me.

I'm actually enjoying Robin, but that's because I have no preconception's of Batgirl aside from the issues when Shiva was being all psycho with her. That, and Robin books are always like Batman books without the requisite angst.

Nightwing's meh, haven't read the latest issue even though I want to.

Annihilation SS was predictable but depressing. I really liked the little Squib. That and Skrull seemed somewhat easily duped. I mean would you really put a guy so against fighting in such an important combat aspect of a mission? Nova was a slow burn, but left me at a good cliffhanger.

Now for series that most of you probably aren't reading.

Lullaby I LOVE. Haven't seen new issues in a while and I only pick it up in parts and fragments, but I love the art and the rag tag slapping together of olden fae tales.

Aspen's shrugged comic is catching my eye, guess it catches me with it's good vs evil internal conflict.

DC's best comic right now is Shadowpact. It's just...enjoyable. I mean I like Battle for Bludhaven and Teen Titans as well, but Blud is convoluted and TT just seems slow to me. But Shadowpact has progression and plot at a decent rate.

Devil's Pantie's is just a fun episodic show into the mind of a geek girl. 2 issues out, I vote you check it out.

There's more in my head, but really no need to put it ALL out there.

And yeh...New Avengers bored me. Would've been better if they just repowered magnus without his suit and he accepted the beatdown with apathy not regret laden fear.

[Sano]

I'm gonna have to agree with Psycho Gorath. You really don't have to buy any spin offs, shoot I could care less abo