Comic book thread - version...???

[Carpet Lint]

I couldn't find the old thread. So I guess it's been deleted and it's time to make a new one.

I hear the new Black Panther series is excellent. Someone fill me in on this.

And has anyone ever read The Goon? Is it any good?

Make with the miscellaneous comic book discussion. ie. Claremont IMPOSTERS

[P. Gorath]

i want to fast forward a year or two and pick up the seven soldiers trades

[The Bucket Of Truth]

ive never been a big fan of morrison. ive only read his run on jla and that was pretty average =\

[KungfuJoe]

which was the best run on the jla Morrison run or wade run

KFJ

[Zephyranthes]

I haven't heard too much positive stuff about the new Black Panther. I've only read the first few pages of issue one, but what I read I thought was silly and I haven't bothered to pick up another issue since. I love the Panther, though, so I'll give it another look when the paperback comes out.

I've read the second volume of Goon. I like it quite a bit. It's a very easy comic to jump in at any point. You can read a random issue and follow along and find some quality entertainment in those pages. The cartoony art adds a very distinct feel to the pulpy sensibilities, so I'd say if you like comics that don't take themselves too seriously, you'll enjoy The Goon.

And Bucket, claiming Morrison's JLA was only "average?" Heathen!! I think an IMPOSTER is posting under Bucket's handle.

[Higher-Jin]

ive never been a big fan of morrison. ive only read his run on jla and that was pretty average =\

I think he's considered one of the best bat writers and also made bats uber under his run.

[Hiko]

I think he's considered one of the best bat writers and also made bats uber under his run.

Uh, Grant Morrison? He has never had a regular run on a batman title other than Legends of the Dark Knight 6-10. He wrote "Arkham Asylum" the graphic novel and other than some other scattered stuff thats about all he's done on the title.

He's more known for his work on Animal Man, The Invisibles and New X-Men. I thought his JLA was pretty good too.

[box]

I picked up Reginald Hudlin's Spider-MAn #13. It's okay. But it seems like the author is trying a bit too hard on Spider-Man's character. Storywise it seems good so far except for the cliffhanger which I believe is a dream sequence so I'm not too worried. I definitely like it a lot better than Millar's Spider-Man arc. And I really enjoy rookie Billy Tan's artwork.

And it seems marvel and DC are trying to get more cash out of our pockets this year. With DC releasing four 6-part mini-series leading up to DC countdown, and another 7-part DC countdown mini series... and marvel doing pretty much the same thing with its house of m series and side-stories/tie ins... it's pretty gay.

[archetype]

Just got

Green lantern rebirth 4 & 5
The new avengers 4 gonna get 3 later lol
phoenix endsong 1-5
Secret Wars 4
Age of apoc complete collection(the old one)
and Age of apcc (the new one) 1-5

reading now. v for vendetta. Its good so far

[Zephyranthes]

I picked up Reginald Hudlin's Spider-MAn #13. It's okay. But it seems like the author is trying a bit too hard on Spider-Man's character. Storywise it seems good so far except for the cliffhanger which I believe is a dream sequence so I'm not too worried. I definitely like it a lot better than Millar's Spider-Man arc. And I really enjoy rookie Billy Tan's artwork.

And it seems marvel and DC are trying to get more cash out of our pockets this year. With DC releasing four 6-part mini-series leading up to DC countdown, and another 7-part DC countdown mini series... and marvel doing pretty much the same thing with its house of m series and side-stories/tie ins... it's pretty gay.


I agree, the marketing campaign to get people to read all the tie-ins to the two big summer events are kind of annoying. Actually, it's commendable that DC and Marvel are going to such great lengths to try and raise fan interest and all that, but surviving by living from one big event to the next makes the stories feel more artificial and less significant. I came back to comic books a couple of years ago and I gotta say, that I got burned out on superhero comics pretty quickly. After reading DC Countdown, I no longer have any real investment and interest in most current DC superhero comics.

I'm just jaded, I guess. Don't get me wrong, I still have fondness for superhero comics and sometimes a guy just has to find out what happens in the next issue, but when I want to read a real book, I'll read a Vertigo book, or something from Drawn And Quarterly or Top Shelf, etc. I have nothing but love for the independent/alternative stuff.

archetype- I hope you enjoy V For Vendetta. That happens to be one of my personal favorite comics of all time. There's gonna be a movie based on it coming out sometime relatively soon, too.

[Lynx Winters]

I recently finished reading Transmet. Now I know why my friends tell me I get a little too Spider J sometimes.


And I want a bowel disruptor.

[HitBattousai]

Morrison is mostly known as a great Bat-writer through his depiction of Batman in his JLA work, but I agree that his work is pretty average overall with little bits of greatness interspersed throughout the mediocrity.

My current favs:
Blood of the Demon
Ex Machina
Green Arrow
Green Lantern: Rebirth
The Runaways
Teen Titans
Y - The Last Man

[Rogue328]

The new Black Panther series has been pretty good. The second issue was way better than the first. Zeph, if I was you, I'd at least pick up the second issue. And as I've said before, I love JRjrs art. You either hate it or love it. It's got that old school feel to it, know what I mean?

As for all the DC minis: I'm probably only going to pick up the Rann/Thanagar War, since I'm a big Hawkman fan. I'm still waiting to see if the Geoff Johns/Allan Heinberg JLA arc will be a good pick up; I may get that. And for Marvel, I may skip the House of M mini itself. I'll get the Spidey tie-in, because Mark Waid+Salvador Larroca = top tier combo creators.

I'll definitely pick up Infinite Crisis. I really just wanna see who dies.

Box, if you like Billy Tan's art, then check out the X-23 miniseries.

[Wellman]

Anyone reading Ultimate Secret? Is it any good so far as a single issue or does it look like another TPB building excercise?

Frankly not looking forward to Marvel and DC's crossover summer since they rarely do anything other than either kill off unmarketable characters (Countdown, Avengers Dissembled, etc.), temporary kill off big stars (Superman, Thor, Hal Jordan, Oliver Queen, etc.)or shift the universe to allow for some clean slates (the great Crisis, Onslaught,etc.)

I am thinking that is what we will get a few clean slates with the House of M and maybe Infinte Crisis. Or with Infinite Crisis we will probably see a few deaths and maybe some history reconning of history. In both cases I feel like they are probably going to fuck it up, kill off the wrong characters and more than likely try to set the stage for more 'gritty' universes. Unless they pull some really good ideas from quality talent I think I will pass on both, except possibily the Rann/Thangar War.

[maxx]

whats marvel doing as their big tie-in? i haven't heard anything about marvels dc i know.

also any pick up shark knife yet?

[DJTakashi]

Just look at Ultimate Secret as Ultimate Nightmare issue #6. It's all a part of a trilogy (won't say which one, since I don't know if you read Ult. Nightmare). Supposedly it's going to tie into the rest of the ultimate books later on this year. It damn well better.

[box]

Maxx: They're releasing a gazillion titles starting in June based on House of M. Spider-Man House of M, Hulk House of M, FF house of M, etc.

I think i'm gonna pick up the OMAC project and the JLA lead in story for DC. In Marvel I'll just stick with the main house of M story.

Picked up amazing spidey, superman and young avengers yesterday. Young avengers still doing great. Amazing spidey rebounded after that crappy molten man wannabe arc. And thank god Superman is done. Most boring story I've ever read.

[Geese Pants]

OMG Hal Jordan is the TRUTH.......
I'm wating for Rebirth #6, and I'm sticking the GL relaunch.

[archetype]

OMG Hal Jordan is the TRUTH.......
I'm wating for Rebirth #6, and I'm sticking the GL relaunch.

Same here man, I just bought 4 & 5. I need 6 now!

BTW where the hell is secret wars 5?

[Carpet Lint]

WOW. That last...HALF of Superman just dragged on and on. Since when has Superman been able to build Kryptonian androids on his own in his spare time? I think I'll sit down and read it all at once just to make sure, but I'm pretty confident that I'm right in saying that the run was just really "meh."

Fantastic ideas behind it though - I liked the whole world ending/beginning theme, and for once, it was a real ambitious Superman project. Instead of just introducing another STRONGEST VILLIAN EVAR and having Superman power up to POWERFULEST LEVELS EVAR and just slugging him, they tried to go another direction. I admire the effort, if not the execution.

I liked The Question mini-series a lot. It was a bit weird, but this guy's become one of my favourite characters. I want to read more of his stuff.

Still looking for some Goon though - that's for the input Zephy. This title is tough to find for some reason. I've even tried to download it, but I can't even find it online.

I'll deal with this evil Bucket IMPOSTER later. "Pretty average?" Lol, FUCK YOU.

[Zephyranthes]

I liked Superman, too, because it was more than a typical generic Superman story. It was nice to see a different approach to the icon. I still don't know everything that went down, but all I know is that I like it. I'm sure I've plugged this book before, but if you want to read a wonderfully written, beautifully painted, Eisner-nominated Superman tale (my favorite of all time), pick up It's A Bird... by Steven T. Seagle and Teddy Kristiansen. That Vertigo original graphic novel is the truth. It just barely edges out Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow and Secret Identity as my favorite Superman story.

I also loved The Question a great deal. I haven't read too much of Rick Veitch's stuff (he's obviously a great storyteller based solely on his artistic skills alone, though). I was reading Kerouac's On The Road around the time the first issue or two of The Question came out, and somehow the narrative reminded me of Kerouac. I've been meaning to pick up his Greyshirt book from ABC but I haven't gotten around to it. And Tommy Lee Edwards' art was freakin' intense! Loved the blend of the hand drawn and the computer generated stuff. Perfectly fit the tone of the story. I'm for sure gonna pick up the collected edition.

As for the Goon, I suppose if your local comic shop doesn't have it and you can't find it at the bookstore, your best bet would be the Internet. Amazon, perhaps, or www.dcbservice.com . The Discount Comic Book Service website is awesome. A lot of their books are 30%-50% off, which is quite substantial.

[The Bucket Of Truth]

And Bucket, claiming Morrison's JLA was only "average?" Heathen!! I think an IMPOSTER is posting under Bucket's handle.i can understand how you guys love batman puking everyone in his jla run but apart from that what made his run so special? i liked new world order, rock of ages and thought the one with the key was meh but world war three and that one off story about those microscopic bugs fighting the jla sucked ass. i havet been keeping up with his current jla book so ive got no beef with that

i love batman and plastic man but i guess im just not a big jla fan

[Wellman]

BUMP

* Possible Spoiler New Character to show up in House of M* (http://http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32619)

Got to say this and DC's Infinite Crisis are becoming less appealing the more I read or hear about them.

Why not try improving the regular titles and add some growth rather than shoe horning in MAJOR events to make changes. Damn not everything should be contained in some easy to collect TPB arc, the best recent surprise I can remember was Magneto turning out to be Xorn and that is because it cause me to go back and say WTF.

Give me some subtle growth along those lines instead of all this event BS.

[/rant]

[DeadlyRaveNeo]

I thought I read on wizard that Bendis said there wasn't going to be any major changes in House M, but instead its just how the Marvel universe deals with the Wanda incident. The "crack the internet in half" thing was funny. lol talk about hype.

Maybe since Xavier can't control Wanda any longer this kid will be like another superpowerful mutant that either a.) incredible mental powers that is many times over Xavier's or b.) another reality altering mutant not unlike Scarlet witch but several times more powerful than she is keeping Wanda in check.

....which maybe several years later, she loses control and that would be another event and then she has to be contained again, sacrifices had to be made, yadda, yadda, some characters die, yadda, yadda. (I like the pencils on House of M though, anyone know who drew it?)

I'm not really big on crossovers, the last I completely bought was probably Deathmate many years ago and that is definitely not worth it (check your local quarter bin store for back issues) and I got burned for that, so noooooooo more big events for me.

[LostPhrack]

i want to fast forward a year or two and pick up the seven soldiers trades

Agreed. I want to read that whole thing, but there's no way I'm going to follow all seven series. I wonder how they'll collect them.. individual tpb's for each series or a few bigs one or what.

[FistsofFury]

I am loving Green Latern Rebirth right now. When is #6 dropping?

Also...I hear in the Supermans that he is cheating on Lois Lane. WTF is that about?

[box]

Picked up New Avengers 5, Superman/Batman 19 and Supreme Power 16.

Spoilers

New Avengers was okay this time around. Wolverine's explanation of why he's in the savage land seems a bit forced. The explanation of why the x-men aren't there is also lame. Wolverine stabbing Karl Lycos when he knows that Lycos can suck Wolvie's powers is also lame. Bendis went out of his way to portray Wolvie as the dumbest super hero on earth. Still, the conversation between Spider-Man and Spider-woman about underwear was very comical. And Spider-Woman pwning Wolvie at the start was very cool indeed. I'm not a big fan of David Finch's artwork.

Superman/Batman was a good read. I enjoyed Ian Churchill's artwork. This was a Supergirl issue. And it seems as though Supergirl may have more power than Superman. She ain't affected by synthetic kryptonite. She may even be faster than Superman. Quite an interesting read. I'm sure I will pick up the Supergirl ongoing series that starts in August.

Supreme Power was a very good read. JMS' storytelling in this issue is simply awesome.

Also picked up the latest Wizard. Apparently JMS is gonna be moving Supreme Power from the MAX line to the Marvel Knights line (WTF). Bad move IMO. I'll probably stop at the end of the MAX line.

House of M storyline has Magneto ruling the world and in order to prevent other heroes from taking him down he changes reality to give all the heroes what their heart desires. Peter Parker is a science professor, whose also a celebrity and still has his spider-powers etc.

1602 is gonna have a sequel but it ain't gonna be written by Neil Gaiman.

[Shade]

whats marvel doing as their big tie-in? i haven't heard anything about marvels dc i know.

also any pick up shark knife yet?

Sharknife isnt out yet. Keeps getting delayed, and rey was having problems with distribution, etc.

I'ma pick up this weekend:

Cannon Busters #1
Cable & Deadpool
X4 (X-Men/Fantastic Four Crossover w/ Pat Lee on pencils).

http://comics.ign.com/articles/608/608083p1.html

[DA GAME]

DA GAME has his Wizard #164 & sad news for Teen Titans readers.Geoff Johns has a new artist on board: Rob Liefield.Look for him to have the Titans looking ultra buff & crappy.Does anyone know when the 2nd arc of She-Hulk will be coming out?

[Geese Pants]

DA GAME has his Wizard #164 & sad news for Teen Titans readers.Geoff Johns has a new artist on board: Rob Liefield.Look for him to have the Titans looking ultra buff & crappy.Does anyone know when the 2nd arc of She-Hulk will be coming out?

Wait......Leifield is doing TT?
Yep, I'm gonna stop that when he debuts.

I don't know about Supergirl......I mean how many times are they going to introduce this girl? She's one of my fav's IMO.

I hope that this one doesn't go to waste.

[P. Gorath]

i also picked up the amazing spider-man 500 covers hardcover and it is really, really cool.

[DJTakashi]

Da Game, are you asking about the trade for the second She Hulk arc? It's been out for a few weeks now. It's called Superhuman Law.

[Zephyranthes]

i can understand how you guys love batman puking everyone in his jla run but apart from that what made his run so special? i liked new world order, rock of ages and thought the one with the key was meh but world war three and that one off story about those microscopic bugs fighting the jla sucked ass. i havet been keeping up with his current jla book so ive got no beef with that

i love batman and plastic man but i guess im just not a big jla fan

Here's what I love about Morrison's JLA. Clinty can chime in later with his more sensible reasons.

First off, Morrison made the JLA fun. It was just straight-up superhero team action without any pretentiousness. Sure, there were some places that were a little complicated, but his JLA managed to maintain the balance between good-natured superheroic action with grandiose, science-fictionish, "comic bookish" concepts. His narrative was fresh and zoomed along at lightspeed. This somewhat compressed storytelling made his stories engaging page turners. When I read a superhero comic, there are two key qualities that will put it in the Top Tier for me: 1) it's got to bring some kind of new, creative, or unusual artistic sensibility to its storytelling or 2) it's got to do the old-school, straight up no-frills superhero storytelling to the highest degree. Morrison dominated the second aspect of my criteria and still churned out new idea after new idea. That's what made his comics so fun to read.

Second, his writing was top-notch. He knew he was playing with iconic characters, so there wasn't really much point in fooling around with delving deeply into the psyches of these icons. It seemed like Morrison might have sacrificed the "character" but he definitely brought out the iconic aspects of the JLA. Maybe this wasn't to everyone's taste, but I enjoyed the iconic sense of grandeur Morrison brought to the table. In addition, Morrison's JLA was written with overarching plots without dragging out for too long. It was the perfect balance between serial storytelling and multipart, sprawling epic. Plus, Morrison even used lame old Electric Blue Thunder Superman to good effect in some of the stories. You've got to respect Morrison's writing ability for that!

Lastly, I'd like to also point out that Morrison's JLA stories were far from generic. After reading so many superhero comics, I've come to realize that the best superhero comics are the ones where you can't swap the title character with another character. In other words, his JLA stories could only work with the JLA. They wouldn't work with the Avengers, Fantastic Four, Teen Titans, the Authority, or anyone else. I'm not just talking about the characters' powers being the correct superpowers for the situations, but I'm talking in terms of story themes and types of adventures these characters undergo.

Anyway, if I haven't convinced ya, Bucket, no one can. Except for Clinty. He'd let you play with his Right Hand of Doom if that's what it'll take to convince you that Morrison's JLA is awesome.
-----------

Thoughts on other happenings in this thread-

I'm not too excited about DC's superheroes right now. Countdown was well-written (if rather manipulative) but I thought the plotting was poor. Then again, it's more likely simply a matter of personal taste. I might flip through some of the minis, but I am not going to buy any of them. I can't get over the intense marketing aspect of these stories.

On the other hand, I'm still enjoying Marvel's superheroes. They haven't been as stringent on the cross-book continuity, and I appreciate that. I suppose when House of M hits, the event-driven storytelling will skyrocket. I'll probably just by the House of M collected edition when it comes out. I have confidence in Bendis to write an engaging event story where I don't need to read all of the other spin-offs.

As for Sharknife, I'm not sure if I've seen it at my local comic shop, either. I did see it on sale at the Alternative Press Expo a couple of weeks ago, though. I was thinking of picking up a copy but I didn't have the fundage. Maybe there are some copies on eBay?

And man, so much Rob Liefeld hate. His drawings aren't really to my taste, but he seems like such a good-natured fellow in every interview I've read that I just can't bring myself to hate on him. His two issue Teen Titans story will be written by Gail Simone, according to Newsarama. (Heh. So she's working with Byrne and Liefeld on separate projects.) I'm ready to take the flak for this, but I actually like Rob Liefeld's work more than Michael Turner's work.


Anyway... Lately, I've been obsessed with small press books. Anyone else reading independent comics? Drawn & Quarterly, Fantagraphics, Top Shelf, Ait/PlanetLar, iBooks, Pantheon, etc? So far, my favorite graphic novel of the year is Gemma Bovery, by Posy Simmonds. As you might suspect, it's a modern-day take on Flaubert's Madame Bovary. It's funny, absurd at times, but very human and relatable. It's text heavy but the prose is so sharp that the text and the pictures flow organically. Get it off Amazon, it's definitely worth reading.

[P. Gorath]

im wondering when matt wagner's batman arc is going to start coming out.

and will we see a hc trade of lapham's batman?

[GregWeb8]

Sharknife isnt out yet. Keeps getting delayed, and rey was having problems with distribution, etc.

I'ma pick up this weekend:

Cannon Busters #1
Cable & Deadpool
X4 (X-Men/Fantastic Four Crossover w/ Pat Lee on pencils).

http://comics.ign.com/articles/608/608083p1.html
Sharknife is out. Ive had my copy since last Wed. It rules all sorts of ways.

I dont keep track of Marvel comics, but I just picked up this House of M Sketchbook they were giving out at my local shop. What the hell is House of M? Is marvel making another universe? Is it replacing the 616 universe? Is it just another gimmick? I was a little bit confused with the overloaded Iron Man.

[Gamma Charge]

And man, so much Rob Liefeld hate. His drawings aren't really to my taste, but he seems like such a good-natured fellow in every interview I've read that I just can't bring myself to hate on him. His two issue Teen Titans story will be written by Gail Simone, according to Newsarama. (Heh. So she's working with Byrne and Liefeld on separate projects.) I'm ready to take the flak for this, but I actually like Rob Liefeld's work more than Michael Turner's work.

No hate from me. I would agree. I may not like Liefeld, but I would take him over Turner every single time. I hate Turner's work. He draws everyone the same. The only real difference is the coloring. It's like everyone is Fathom with a different hair color, and maybe a different hair style. His sense of anatomy is just as bad as Liefeld, though what Liefeld has over Turner is his art is much more dynamic and covey a sense of action. Despite all of his other faults(which are pretty bad), his drawings just feel like they are jumping off the page. I love TT and Simone's writing. So despite my dislike of Liefeld I'll pick up the fill-in arc.

[Rhio2k]

Batman/Superman #19: Supergirl outclasses Superman in all abilities?! Since when?? And why? (and what is the TRUE source of Superman's strength?)

Gold Digger #63 and Ninja High School #127 (http://www.antarctic-press.com/html/previews/previews.htm): Fred Perry ownage.

[KidFlash]

No hate from me. I would agree. I may not like Liefeld, but I would take him over Turner every single time. I hate Turner's work. He draws everyone the same. The only real difference is the coloring. It's like everyone is Fathom with a different hair color, and maybe a different hair style. His sense of anatomy is just as bad as Liefeld, though what Liefeld has over Turner is his art is much more dynamic and covey a sense of action. Despite all of his other faults(which are pretty bad), his drawings just feel like they are jumping off the page. I love TT and Simone's writing. So despite my dislike of Liefeld I'll pick up the fill-in arc.

My thoughts exactly. I was at Wizard World LA last month, and I was amazed at how many people were on Turner's nuts. He gets a load of hype for a guy who can only draw people standing still and posing.

[Zep]

The advengers Are my Fav Comic. The Captain is the best, no one can stop his charging star.

[box]

I like Turner's artwork. Especially his cover artwork.

[LostPhrack]

Anyway... Lately, I've been obsessed with small press books. Anyone else reading independent comics? Drawn & Quarterly, Fantagraphics, Top Shelf, Ait/PlanetLar, iBooks, Pantheon, etc?

Yeah, I've picked up a few books from Top Shelf and AiT/PlanetLar. From Hell, Abe: Wrong for all the Right Reasons, all of Brian Woods work from AiT/Planetlar, the two comics Eddie Campbell did based on Moore's spoken word performances, one or two others. Good stuff.

[Carpet Lint]

I don't think I need to say anything more about Morrison's DEFINATELY ABOVE AVERAGE run on JLA. 'cept that one more thing you have to understand is that JLA really sucked before he took over. He simplified the book by collecting the DCU's seven big icons and work the book with that in mind, and it kicked ass. That's how you write big superhero ass kicking stories. Not this sissy Secret War/Ultimate Nightmare/New Avengers dialogue driven crap Bendis has got you hooked on. That's the wrong way to do it. Mark Waid was also really good with stories like that, and his run after Morrison's was great too.

I think that I'm starting to agree with one of my buddies and understanding his hatred towards Mark Millar the way he writes The Ultimates. Something about the constant name dropping just makes it so damn annoying and...pretentious. It's like he's trying way too hard to KEEP IT REAL Y'ALL. I don't need to hear about Paris Hilton every single damn day. And now she's even in my comic books. What the FUCK is that!?! Paris Hilton is UGLY. Why can't anyone see this? Just like how every single one of Frank Quitely's women are ugly. Is the whole world turning gay!?!

Ahem.

___________

I'm gonna chime in about Michael Turner too. Yes, he's overrated. I just don't understand the average comic book reader these days. Maybe it's too much Wizard. Michael Turner's aesthetics are really nice - you have to admit his stuff is real pretty, especially with a shiny colourist - but his storytelling ain't all that. Ya gots ta have storytelling. And yeah, his women look pretty, but it's the same damn girl everytime - just different coloured hair or something. Can anyone tell the difference between Wonder Woman, Witchblade, Fanthom, or whatever miscellaneous dark haired woman he draws? His stuff isn't fun - people just seem to be standing still all the time, no matter what they're doing. His covers are nice though. But his interior pencils...meh.

But Liefeld...I don't know. It's dynamic, yeah. But his sense of anatomy even after all these years...it's still so wack. I still see a weird chest muscle sticking out or a elbow that looks too sharp every so often. He's one of the guys that got really successful from the Image days where everyone wanted big mindless comics like X-Force and Youngblood, and he's just managed to stick around somehow after it all died out. I have no idea how. I'm pretty sure it's not his artistic ability.

And of course, whenever someone mentions Rob Liefeld, the conversation always just comes back to this.
http://home.earthlink.net/~grotesqueanatomy/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/capnekkid2.jpg

Let the record show that I do not support this Liefeld love. I don't condone the Liefeld hate, but I do not support the love.

But I will definately pick up this Gail Simone arc, if just to check up on my old bud Rob and see how he's doing. That, and Gail Simone is good.

EDIT: And you guys are going to have to fill me in on the good independent stuff after I start getting money again this summer.

[box]

Yeah Mike turner's characters all look similar but a lot of top notch artists have this same problem.

David Finch on New Avengers. Steve rogers, tony stark, peter parker... heck even Luke Cage would be hard to recognize if you were just going by facial features and no hair or color. (I'm personally not a big fan of David Finch. The facial expression on his characters is really weak.)

Jim Lee's Superman and Bruce Wayne are virtually impossible to distinguish if you were just looking at the facial features.

Mike Turner's storytelling lacking a bit, but I believe that comes with experience. Right now he's writing his own series... Soulfire and his storytelling has improved. And he draws a killer Batman. As far as him being overrated... I don't think he is. I think the majority of his fans like him for his cover work.

IMO I think Jim Lee is overrated. Wizard is a big fan of Jim Lee, rating him the #1 artist for all 12 months of his Superman run. He's good, but not that good.

My favorite artists are Mike Turner, Ethan Van Sciver, Billy Tan, Mark Bagley, and Greg Land. Favorite writer is JMS and Joss Whedon.

[KidFlash]

Gees, Lint, it's like you're reading my mind. I'm so tired of Marvel's "new school" comic dialogue spewed by the likes of Bendis and Millar (who are both overrated in my mind). I can't believe I bought all 12 issues of Millar's cowardly MK Spider-Man run. Waid's a freakin' genius. Are you reading his Legion of Super Heroes?

And I have to agree on Liefeld. He's the worst of that mid-90s wave of Jim Lee rip artists who load their work up with detail to distract from the horrible anatomy. I've met him and he actually is a nice guy, but he should go back to art school.

[Wellman]

Is it me or there something off putting about the way the Sentry is depicted in New Avengers?

I mean it is obvious they are trying to make him into the teams resident Superman, but I don't know just based off the few times I have seen him in uniform I just think 'No'. Maybe it is the hair.

[box]

Kid Flash: I agree with you on Bendis and Millar there. Bendis' dialogue infuriates me sometimes, especially his 616 Spidey. And Millar's entire MK spidey run was a waste of time and money.

Wellman: The sentry is gonna be getting a haircut before he officially joins the Avengers. Short hair, no beard/mustache. But the costume is still the same.

[Rogue328]

I'll give my opinion about all the artists discussed:


I really don't care for David Finch's art. If you take a look at Avengers #500, I dare you to tell apart all the female characters. Except for their hair or skin color (She-hulk being green and all), you really can't. And they have virtually no facial expressions either. He is a highly detailed artist and he packs a lot of action onto a page, but he does poorly between panels.

Jim Lee=Marc Silvestri rip off. But at least Jim Lee can tell a story with his artwork. Going back and reading Silvestri's run on Wolverine, I've learned to appreciate his artwork much more. And that was a good 10 years ago, probably more so.

Michael Turner? Great cover artist. As far as storytelling goes... He isn't that bad. My friend told me that his work has gotten a lot better since his early Fathom days. But he also agrees, all his characters look the same. Every guy has a six-pack of abs and big, broad shoulders, no matter if they're 15 years old or 50.


As for the writers:

Still don't care for Bendis. His dialogue in New Avengers seems forced. He's trying too hard to make it work.

Mark Millar's run on Wolverine brings me back to the good old days of Larry Hama. A good old romp through the entire Marvel Universe. I dropped his MK Spider-man run after the fourth issue. I'm hoping his run on Ultimate Fantastic Four kicks ass.

Best writer right now? Robert Kirkman. Not reading Invincible? Shame on you. Go pick up issue #0 for $0.50. That's right, 50 cents!

[KidFlash]

Guys like Finch, Churchill, Jim Lee, Turner (not to mention all the guys that draw like him--it's in the Top Cow contract or something) all belong to the "all flash, little substance" Image school of comic art. I give some of them more credit than others, though. I would've put J.Scott Campbell on this list but he's surpassed a lot of these guys. His dynamic anatomy and facial expressions are awesome, although his chicks tend to look the same, too.

I actually grabbed a couple issues of Invincible. I wish I'd been reading that instead of MK Spider-Man.

[DeadlyRaveNeo]

hmm how is Jim Lee a Silvestri rip off?
they practically broke out of comics almost at the same time and even when they started both of their works looked heavily like Art Adams'.

[Geese Pants]

I happen to like Mike Turner's arc on Superman/Batman, and I've heard he's a nice guy to meet at the comicons. Unlike Alex Ross...

.......but here are my favorite artists:

Humberto Ramos
Ed McGuiness
Ed Benes (draws some hot ladies)
Joe Madd
Mike Weiringo

[Zephyranthes]

I have to agree with KidFlash. The flashy artists just don't do it for me. David Finch's people all have the same facial structure, complete with beady eyes. If he could improve on drawing normal people, he'd definitely rise in my eyes. I like Ian Churchill's artwork but that new issue of Superman/Batman isn't the best representation of his stuff, I don't think. That issue totally looks like he's heavily influenced by Turner. (Maybe it's just due to the fact that Turner did the redesign of Supergirl. Churchill's Batman reminds me of Jim Lee's.)

The biggest problem with these Image-esque/Top Cowish artists is that their work tends to lack subtlety. Everything is all in-your-face and hyper-accentuated. Characters pose to look as cool as possible, not as natural as possible (or even a balance between the two). Every male is ripped and has gritted teeth, while all the females have small waists and huge busts. It's kind of annoying after you realize that there isn't much variety. Plus, it doesn't help that many of their normal people (read: characters without costumes or masks) look exactly the same. It's one thing to establish a personal style of drawing, and it's normal that an artist's people will be identifiable as creations of said artist, but it's just plain laziness when everyone is just a palette swap. (Reminds me of Mortal Kombat and Scorpion and Sub Zero and all those other ninja guys.)

I really like Jim Lee, though. He's just about the only guy from the Image school of art with a decent balance of the dynamic and the subtle. He's a superstar artist for a good reason. Whilce Portacio isn't too bad, either. His work on StormWatch: Team Achilles a while back showed a pretty good improvement from his early '90s days.

[LostPhrack]

hmm how is Jim Lee a Silvestri rip off?
they practically broke out of comics almost at the same time and even when they started both of their works looked heavily like Art Adams'.

He's also more versitile then Silvestri. While his standard superhero work tends to get all the attention, he's played around with and done several comics in different styles. Deathblow, the short story in Flinch #1, the loose pencils and water color work he's done for 100 Bullets and on the covers of Fight For Tomorrow and Gen13.

Frankly, I'd like to see him vary his style a bit more, but I can understand not using them for the big name superhero work he's been doing lately.

[DeadlyRaveNeo]

I'm putting them in quotes so its easier to read...


Current Favorite artists (that have a continuing title):
Alex Maleev - Daredevil (MARVEL)
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22alex+maleev%22&btnG=Search

John Cassaday - Planetary (Wildstorm), Astonishing X-men (MARVEL)
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=john+cassaday&btnG=Search

Lee Bermejo - Lex Luthor: Man of Steel (DC)
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=lee+bermejo&btnG=Search

Frank Cho - Shanna the She-Devil (MARVEL) Liberty Meadows
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=frank+cho&btnG=Search




Favorite Artists of all Time:
Jay Anacleto: Self-taught artist from the Philippines, did all his pencilwork while being a full-time dentist !!!! Incredibly detailed pencils, armed with Brian Haberlin (greatest colorist EVAR!!!!) on colors, produces jaw-droppingly gorgeous images not seen on any other comic. The best description would be "photo-realistic"
worked on: Aria and Athena Inc, from IMAGE comics
work examples: http://images.google.com/images?q=jay+anacleto&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images

Travis Charest: Canadian artist who's style is a mix of Jim Lee's and European artists (Moebius etc), his works also show great detailed work, albeit mostly taking a long time to produce a pencilled work, but the results show for themselves.
IIRC, like Anacleto he is also self-taught (learning how to draw from imitating comics instead of going to school) but i'm not sure, correct me if i'm wrong.

worked on: WildC.A.Ts (for Image comics under Wildstorm Studios), Metabarons (Humanoids)
work examples: http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=travis+charest&btnG=Search

Jim Lee: jeez what can be said about him that hasn't been said yet? Aside from greatly influencing comicbooks in the 90's, Lee still continues to pencil today with his works on Batman and Superman. With his dynamic panelling skills, immitated by and influenced a lot of younger artists. Currently Editorial Director of Wildstorm Studios under DC comics which produces top of the line and creatively original superhero and sci-fi titles.
worked on: Alpha Flight, Punisher, X-men, WildC.A.Ts, Deathblow, Batman, Superman. etc
work examples: http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22jim+lee%22&btnG=Search

Frank Miller: Another influential and innovative artist who just happens to write one of the greatest comicbooks ever written (DKR) . Have you seen Mike Mignola's pencils before "Sin City" was published? Although there are times when he's not on his top form when pencilling there are times when his creativity level is just through the roof. I'm almost willing to forgive him for Robocop 2.
worked on: Daredevil, Ronin, Sin City
work examples: http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22frank+miller%22+art&btnG=Search

Neal Adams: My first favorite artist after seeing some old Batman comics and the way he handles facial expressions and just his cool-looking overall style. This guy is definitely an icon, the direction of art in the 60s and 70s made a diff turn when Neal Adams was on top of his game. He also gave X-men that boost it needed during that time when it was dying. He's also a crusader for creator rights in comic books and was supportive of Seigel and Schuster's superman fight with DC.
worked on: Batman, X-men, Green Lantern, Conan
work examples: http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22neal+adams%22&btnG=Search

Jack Kirby: heh, self explanatory but i'll say something anyway. I'm a huge fan of his work on Fantastic Four, Kamandi and Hulk and he influenced EVERYONE!!! He's a lot like Jim Lee in the sense that they both draw great cool-looking action scenes but suffer with the monotone facial expressions, otherwise they both are very hardworking innovative artists who rightfully deserve every single accolade thrown at them.
worked on: a shitload of DC and MARVEL comics
work examples: http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22jack+kirby%22&btnG=Search

others (because I'm too lazy to describe everyone):
Barry Windsor-Smith (WeaponX, X-O Manowar), Whilce Portacio (Punisher, X-men, Wetworks, StormWatch Team Achilles), Nick Manabat (worked on Cybernary before his death from Cancer), Milo Manara (Click!, Gullivera), Paolo Eleuteri Serpieri (Druuna), Marc Silvestri (wolverine, x-men, cyber force)



Favorite Artist for laughs:
Rob Liefeld

[Carpet Lint]

Hahaha, yeah - Jim Lee's Lex Luthor looked like a bald Bruce Wayne...but maybe like a bit fatter. I remember seeing a sketchbook where he drew Clark Kent's face beside Bruce Wayne's and he was practicing drawing them differently, and you could see the slight differences. But in the actual comic, I don't really think it works. Jim Lee's a top notch storyteller though.

I read some Portacio's new stuff with StormWatch...and it's weird now. I don't know if it's the bizarre inking or the colouring (everything was like puke green/WetWorks yellow/and purple - ...why?). But it hurt my eyes.

And Hunter-Killer by Waid and Silvestri - this book is one of those first Image books that got lost in time and somehow ended up in the present day. It's just so generic - hilarious stuff. I actually think Silvestri's art looked before before - with his old Wolverine stuff. Now it looks like it's all packed with tiny detail things everywhere - like scuff marks on EVERY POSSIBLE SURFACE - and he gets sloppy sometimes. I remember reading his last thing - Inferno: Hellbound or something, and it didn't look as did as it did before either.

Though I vaguely remember that his bit on New X-Men looked really good. But I don't remember that much since Grant Morrison's writing was pure insanity for that entire run.

_______

Hard to say what my favourites are. I keep forgetting. And I don't know the old classic ones that much since I haven't been in comics all that long. Neo had a pretty good list though. Just of the top of my head...

Jim Lee
John Cassaday - his stuff in Planetary especially, when he gets to draw all sorts of crazy stuff
Travis Charest - what's he doing now?
Ed McGuiness - what's he doing now?
Frank Miller - I was going over Sin City again recently. Goddamn.
Mike Mignola

...I don't know, I got a new favourite every month. Right now I really like Doug Manke on Batman. Batman's getting fun again.

EDIT: And is Jay Anacleto the guy they wanted for the sequel to Marvels? Or are they going to get that Gabriele Dell’Otto guy now? I've only Anacleto stuff I've seen is an Aria art book, and it was incredible. What's he doing now?

[DeadlyRaveNeo]

haha the StormWatch Team Achilles having shitty colors had a good reason....Portacio was doing the colors himself!! lol I remember the first early issues had really bad colors plus he was also doing the pencils and inks for that i believe so some colors looked really rushed, and maybe because he's like the "2nd man" in Wildstorm nobody could tell him that it sucked. lol, anyway he's a cool guy, I think his art suits darker sort of comics I dunno what happened with the 2nd volume of WetWorks that they were planning, I remember I waited forever for the first volume and that was delayed with a reasonable excuse: the death of his sister and he had to take like a year off, but I dunno what happened this time. Maybe Wildstorm/DC just scrapped the idea because they thought it won't sell.

Yeah I enjoyed Silvestri's stuff on "Here Comes Tomorrow" arc of X-men since the theme of the story was dark anyway i felt it suited his style (that comic probably had more hatchlines than all comic Silvestri ever drew. lol Carpet Lint hit it right on the head "like scuff marks on EVERY POSSIBLE SURFACE - and he gets sloppy sometimes." lol

Travis Charest was last with Jodorowsky on Humanoid's Metabarons but I dunno if he's still working there. He always had problems with being on time, the guy is probably the SLOWEST penciller in history, but he always said that the results are all that matters and well some might agree with him since all his work are consistently good and they kept on getting better as he progressed.

I have no idea where the hell that new MARVELS is now, I remember posting in one of the earlier comic book threads how hyped I was when I saw it on newsarama and that Anacleto was pencilling, this was like a year ago. I have all of the Aria issues and I don't recall any of them being late as Anacleto finished his work in time but it seems this project is being delayed because of art. Kurt Busiek posted on newsarama regarding the status of the project: (its about halfway down)
http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27899


MARVELS II got spiked in 1995. That's what got revamped into ASTRO CITY: THE DARK AGE.

MARVELS: EYE OF THE CAMERA is still a go. A slow go, since the art is taking some time to get done, but a very good-looking go.

kdb


Good to hear its still on but it didn't say if its still Anacleto/Haberlin on art. Maybe it still is since pencilling and coloring (considering Anacleto and Haberlin's styles) it would take much longer than painting.

[box]

Is anybody gonna pick up Fantastic Four 527 this month. I think there's a new creative team this month. J michael Straczynski as writer and Mike McKone as artist. I dunno if I should pick this up. I'm a big fan of JMS, but not so big a fan of the FF.

Any thoughts on the upcoming Batman and FF movies??

[Zephyranthes]

I say go for picking up the new FF if you like JMS and McKone. I've always found it best to follow creators, not characters.

[Wellman]

Okay I haven't been paying attention to schedules for the past few weeks but has a new Supreme Power hit the shelves yet or will anytime soon?

Definately the best thing JMS has done as far as I am concern during his Marvel tenure.

[box]

Wellman: I think #16 just hit recently about a week or two ago. The series is gonna end it's MAX line run with #18. Then it's gonna go into 2 miniseries (Nitehawk and Hyperion), similar to the DR Spectrum one a while back. Then after those are done, JMS is gonna relaunch Supreme Power under the Marvel Knights Line. Dumbest move ever IMO. I'm stopping after #18.

[RoninChaos]

I never got around to getting identity crisis, so I went to the comic book store today cause I knew they had the reprints. They were fucking 3.99 each. DC's outta their fucking mind. I'm not about to pay $28.00 plus tax for that shit.

[archetype]

I love Alex Ross's drawing. I can't get enough of it. Marvels and Kingdom come. *shakes head*

Yo Ronin I actually caved in and bought 6 of the Identity crisis books :sweat:

[ViciousSLASH]

Alex Ross is heads and tails above everyone, it's a shame his style takes a very long time though.

My top five in no particular order is...

Joe Madd - Everyone wants to be him, no one can be him, Ed McGinnus is cool and all, but he's just a bootleg Joe Madd. He can make anyone look fucking cool as shit. Too bad he is a lazy bastard.
Bryan Hitch - Just read the Ultimates, it's a movie in comic book form. Same thing with the Authority.
Alex Ross - See above, blows everyone away. Brings myths to life. Simply amazing.
The guy who drew X-Statix, Mike Mignola I think - Cool ol school style, reminds me of Jack Kirby.
The guy who drew Flash for a long time- sigh I haven't read comics in awhile - He drew Flash really cool, I forget his name, I am stupid.

[Zephyranthes]

A
The guy who drew X-Statix, Mike Mignola I think - Cool ol school style, reminds me of Jack Kirby.


The X-Statix dude is Mike Allred. Mike Mignola is the Hellboy fella (and he's awesome, too).

[box]

I love Alex Ross's drawing. I can't get enough of it. Marvels and Kingdom come. *shakes head*

Yo Ronin I actually caved in and bought 6 of the Identity crisis books :sweat:

Don't worry. Identity Crisis #7 wasn't very good.

I think Alex Ross is gonna be doing a Justice League mini-series later this year. I think he's gonna be painting over somebody else's pencils though so it won't be 100% Alex Ross. I think he's also gonna be involved with the story is basically a huge brawl between the JLA and the Legion of Doom. I saw some sketches that Ross did of the Legion of Doom. Joker, Luthor, Braniac, Scarecrow, poison Ivy, Solomon GRundy, Sinestro, Riddler all looked killer.

http://www.alexrossart.com/

[RoninChaos]

How much were they when they originally came out?

[Wellman]

Wellman: I think #16 just hit recently about a week or two ago. The series is gonna end it's MAX line run with #18. Then it's gonna go into 2 miniseries (Nitehawk and Hyperion), similar to the DR Spectrum one a while back. Then after those are done, JMS is gonna relaunch Supreme Power under the Marvel Knights Line. Dumbest move ever IMO. I'm stopping after #18.

Damn, I better try to catch that then.

As for Supreme Power moving to the MK line, I am hoping it won't be all that bad. Outside of the nudity and some of the excessive violence, if the story goes as well as it did and they don't pull back on the subject matter too much, it will still be interesting.

Hell with what they get away with in comics anyway I doubt the change will be to necessary. But since it is the current Marvel, you never know.

[archetype]

How much were they when they originally came out?

At my store they were like 2.50, then the reprints began and it went to like 5.00 bucks. Now they are like 3.50 or something.

can't wait for New Avengers 6 btw.

[Geese Pants]

Ronin.......don't sweat IC.
Wait for the TPB to come out.

Vicious: I gotta disagree with Ed being a ripoff Joe Madd. Adise from the shading and pencils, I don't see similarities to Ed's and Joe's work.

I feel better that I got NYX, cause #3 (X-23's first appearance) is worth $50. Whoohooo! But the delays were fuckin brutal.

Green Lantern: Hero of the Year, Comeback of the Year.......there, I said it!

I took a gamble and ordered The Omac Project, Villains United, and The Thangarr/???? War. Was told it was a hot seller.

I am not feeling Marvel these days........

Alex Ross is the best at what he is, but in person he's either okay, or just a fuckin asshole. I tried to get an autograph for the Superman HC book he had, and be brushed me off because I was 2 minutes late. I went in, bought the book and got NOTHING! Granted I loved his work on MARVELS and KINGDOM COME....he brushed me the wrong way.

[ViciousSLASH]

Ronin.......don't sweat IC.
Wait for the TPB to come out.

Vicious: I gotta disagree with Ed being a ripoff Joe Madd. Adise from the shading and pencils, I don't see similarities to Ed's and Joe's work.

I am not feeling Marvel these days........

Alex Ross is the best at what he is, but in person he's either okay, or just a fuckin asshole. I tried to get an autograph for the Superman HC book he had, and be brushed me off because I was 2 minutes late. I went in, bought the book and got NOTHING! Granted I loved his work on MARVELS and KINGDOM COME....he brushed me the wrong way.

Yeah, he comes off as some guy who thinks we should be kissing his ass because of what he does. Because he can feel the characters and loves them so much, or something. He's just a really big elitist nerd.

I didn't really say Ed was a ripoff, just a bootleg, Ed draws in an anime stylish way, the only differenece is that Ed makes all his characters huge. They are both good, but Joe Mad is just way way way ahead in terms of cartoony stylish penciling.

I haven't bought any comic books either now a days. Just The Ultimates, and when I get time I go buy however many Flash I need to keep up. Geoff Johns owns everyone for free easily. Bendis should just suck Geoffs cock and be his bitch.

[Rogue328]

I've always called a Jim Lee a Marc Silvestri ripoff. It's because I was exposed to Silvestri's art on Wolverine before I really got a look at Lee's on X-Men with Claremont. I look at them and I see almost the same thing. But that was years ago. After "Here Comes Tomorrow" by Silvestri and "For Tomorrow" by Lee, I'm starting to enjoy Lee's artwork more.


My favorite artists now are Cary Nord on Conan, Ryan Ottley on Invincible, John Romita Jr on Wolverine and Black Panther, Billy Tan on X-23, and Ryan Sook on the Seven Soldiers: Zatanna mini. I wish Sook had stayed on Hawkman.


Now, if Marvel could only find a decent artist for the Rogue ongoing series...

[KidFlash]

Yeah, he comes off as some guy who thinks we should be kissing his ass because of what he does. Because he can feel the characters and loves them so much, or something. He's just a really big elitist nerd.

I've met Ross twice and he was a pretty nice guy both times. He has pretty strong opinions about comics like everyone else does though. He's just talented/respected enough to be able to say "I'm not going to draw or work with so-and-so" and he doesn't really have to.

I didn't really say Ed was a ripoff, just a bootleg, Ed draws in an anime stylish way, the only differenece is that Ed makes all his characters huge. They are both good, but Joe Mad is just way way way ahead in terms of cartoony stylish penciling.

I think Ed's style is a lot more evokative of American-style cartooning. Ed's characters are more round/bubbly whereas Joe Mad's are a little sharper/angular. They both have an great understanding of the fundamentals (anatomy, story-telling, perspective) that very few artists have nowadays--especially ones with highly stylized work like theirs. They're both awesome.

I haven't bought any comic books either now a days. Just The Ultimates, and when I get time I go buy however many Flash I need to keep up. Geoff Johns owns everyone for free easily. Bendis should just suck Geoffs cock and be his bitch.

I more or less agree.

[ViciousSLASH]

I think Ed's style is a lot more evokative of American-style cartooning. Ed's characters are more round/bubbly whereas Joe Mad's are a little sharper/angular. They both have an great understanding of the fundamentals (anatomy, story-telling, perspective) that very few artists have nowadays--especially ones with highly stylized work like theirs. They're both awesome.



True, Ed's is more Americaish, while Joe Mad takes the Animeish approach. They are both good non the less.

[Geese Pants]

Now if only Joe Madd actually stayed constant with his work........why did he fall off?

Oh, and Bullet Tooth Tony will be Juggernaut Headcrushin fools in X-3.

[KidFlash]

Joe Mad left comics to design characters for unpopular video games. He said that's what he's always wanted to do.

Bit of trivia: one of the characters from his Cliffhanger book Battle Chasers was named "Akiman", like the Capcom production artist and character designer.

[Taichi]

sorry, but I think Ross is all hype......

I can't stand looking at his overweight friends in halloween costumes.....

there are better painters out there, sure, none of 'em do full-comics, but there are people who's style is head-and-shoulders above Ross' work.....

that's my opinion, and goddammit, I'm sticking to it.....

[Geese Pants]

sorry, but I think Ross is all hype......

I can't stand looking at his overweight friends in halloween costumes.....

there are better painters out there, sure, none of 'em do full-comics, but there are people who's style is head-and-shoulders above Ross' work.....

that's my opinion, and goddammit, I'm sticking to it.....

Name some.......

[DS]

sorry, but I think Ross is all hype......

I can't stand looking at his overweight friends in halloween costumes.....

there are better painters out there, sure, none of 'em do full-comics, but there are people who's style is head-and-shoulders above Ross' work.....

that's my opinion, and goddammit, I'm sticking to it.....



Nothing is above Alex Ross' artwork. The man painted SuperGrover for God's sake!!! For the toy packaging by the way.

Just look at Marvels itself. I remember reading that in Junior High School and being amazed by such lush artwork. The man makes ANYTHING look good. Just look at those Space Ghost covers as well for the DC mini series. Those are quite possibly some of the best paintings hes done right now.

No other painter comes close because Alex brings this realism to the characters. Kingdom Come Superman looked waaaaaaay badass. The splash page of Captain Marvel standing above Superman was just beautiful.

Did you ever see the cover to Superman Forever? That thing was glorious. Especially if you have the limited lenticular cover. As lame as the book was, I got it due to the cover.

[ViciousSLASH]

They aren't overweight, thats how a huge man, a superman, would and should look. He wouldn't be all cut and gigantic like a body builder because some of those men can barely support their own bodies.

If comics were to suddenly jump to life, Alex Ross' work is what it would look like.

[Zephyranthes]

I haven't bought any comic books either now a days. Just The Ultimates, and when I get time I go buy however many Flash I need to keep up. Geoff Johns owns everyone for free easily. Bendis should just suck Geoffs cock and be his bitch.


While Johns is probably my favorite DC writer, I don't think Bendis is bad at all. Both of their superhero work is of comparable quality, but Bendis seems to have written more. With his volume of work and the quality he maintains, I have to give much respect to Bendis' ability as a writer. Plus, Bendis has more stuff that isn't strictly superhero comics, and pretty much all of his crime comics kick much buttocks. I like it when writers demonstrate some versatility. I'm not sure if Johns has done any indie or creator-owned work other than that Possessed comic (which I admittedly have not read).

I'm guessing all the Bendis hate is due to fan outcry at how he "ruined" the Marvel universe with Avengers Disassembled and how he seems to have really taken the reins of the core Marvel Universe proper. I really have no problem with what he's done because Marvel and DC always gotta fall upon drastic measures (also known as the dreaded Big Event) to keep up interest in their comics. Even if you don't like his current Marvel Universe work, I think it's nuts to hate Bendis because his old stuff is so good. And he ain't like Claremont, either; Bendis still has it. Just read a current issue of Powers or Daredevil.

In regards to the subject of Alex Ross and painted comics, I think that there are plenty of talented comics painters. Ross is probably the most popular because he's had the most high-profile work and his art is so realistic. Taichi mentioned other similarly talented painters, and I definitely agree that they are out there. The thing is, most of them don't solely do painted comics. I remember an interview once where Ross stated that he'd only ever want to do painted comics because that's what his reputation is built on, and that he wasn't sure if his work would flow so well with the fans if it were colored via conventional means.

Who are these mysterious comics painters? My list of favorites includes Sean Phillips, Glenn Fabry, Glenn Barr, Teddy Kristiansen, Jill Thompson, Scott Morse, Dave Dorman, Matt Wagner, Dave McKean, Bill Sienkiewicz, and David Mack. Simon Bisley is also another pretty renowned guy. The thing is, none of these guys' art is as "realistic" as Ross' work. Some of them don't do entire comics with their painted style; sometimes they just do covers. However, they all have their own distinctive and very attractive styles of doing painted comics artwork, whether it's illustrated prose stories or simply covers. I like Ross' work as much as the next guy, but to consider him the only awesome comics painter is a bit much. He's got to be the most realistic painter, though.

[Impact Hound]

I love the storyline in the recent Ultimate Galactus.

***SPOILERS***

Vision was incorporated really well; The X-Men seemed totally out of character, as was the SHIELD agents, but it was a nice spotlight for Captain America yet again. Disappointing that Galactus doesn't actually appear in the damn book, but if it fleshes out into the big story arc I expect it to, it will be worth the wait.

[ViciousSLASH]

While Johns is probably my favorite DC writer, I don't think Bendis is bad at all.

Neither do I, but Johns doesn't get anywhere near the credit he deserves. The man can make anyone cool. ANYONE. His run on Avengers > Bendis' run. Black Panther was a bad ass mo fo in that run. Flash doesn't sell NEARLY as much as it should, and thats sad. Sorry Flash isn't full of angst or Jim Lee isn't penciling or whatever attracts readers now a days. I bet if you added a high profile penciler to the Flash creative team everyone would be like OMG THIS IS AMAZING !.

Ultimate Spidey is the shit, and nothing can deny that fact.

[Zephyranthes]

Yeah, I have to agree that I like Johns' Avengers more than Bendis' stuff. I just wish that Johns hadn't signed that DC exclusive because I would have loved to see even more of his Avengers. He did his best to tie things up, I suppose, but it still felt a little too brusque. Oh well, what can you do. I'm not all too fond of Busiek's Avengers (and I'm ready for whatever can of worms I just opened there) and I'll admit that I don't know too many old school Avengers stories, but Johns' Avengers, was the truth. Red Zone is by far my favorite Avengers yarn.

[Geese Pants]

I've been telling my friends over and over......Johns > Bendis at this point.

[DS]

Neither do I, but Johns doesn't get anywhere near the credit he deserves. The man can make anyone cool. ANYONE. His run on Avengers > Bendis' run. Black Panther was a bad ass mo fo in that run. Flash doesn't sell NEARLY as much as it should, and thats sad. Sorry Flash isn't full of angst or Jim Lee isn't penciling or whatever attracts readers now a days. I bet if you added a high profile penciler to the Flash creative team everyone would be like OMG THIS IS AMAZING !.

Ultimate Spidey is the shit, and nothing can deny that fact.



Nah man. If anything Johns gets uber credit on Hawkman. He made 25 years of continuity constraints look simple and beautiful. Hawkman kicked ass for exactly 25 issues. He corrected EVERYTHING in that story. Just like he's correcting GL right now with Rebirth. The Parallax explanation in issue 3 was disgustingly well done.

As for the Flash, I've read his entire run on that so far. Its still one of my favorite monthly books alongside everything else he writes. And it would have been awesome to have his Avengers run last a lot longer. The whole Red Zone thing was amazing. I liked it a lot. And yes, the Flash doesn't sell the books that it should be selling but what can you do? The kids are attracted to flashy(pardon the pun) artwork. If Jim Lee were on that book that book would start selling out fast(pardon this other pun).

Anybody here read Y The Last Man? That book is just mindboggling and awesome. Brian K. Vaughn could be the next Geoff Johns. I would like to see Johns or Vaughn write JLA. That would be pretty sweet.

I do miss those Transformers comics from Dreamwave. Unfortunately Dreamwave had to go bite the dust. I spent so much money collecting those books its not even funny. Although the War Within series by Simon Furman is fucking great. And the last series still has yet to be finished. I did hear from a Midtown Comics employee that someone might have picked up the license for the TF books.

[Taichi]

Name some.......

Joe DeVito, he did a series of posters, of the Bat-Characters, and they looked far more realistic than anything Ross has ever done, I rock the Robin poster on my wall, and keep the Ross JLA posters rolled up.....

I'm not saying Ross is bad, but I just don't dig on his style....all his women look the same, and his guys are all fat, and look like they're wearing halloween costumes.....

there was also a female artist who did a series of covers for Robin a year or two ago, whose style I dig.....

both do a photorealistic style that is at least on-par with Ross, granted, they don't do interior work, but really, that's not a problem for me.....

I just don't dig on Ross, yeah, Kingdom Come was awesome, but the writing was good too, so it's as much Waid's work as it is Ross's......

and VSlash, I'd hope at least BATMAN would be smart enough to not wear a thin spandex suit......

unless he WANTS his ass shot off......

Ross' work isn't THAT photorealistic, seriously.......there ARE better artists, Ross himself says this.....

but what those other artists don't have, that Ross does, is SPEED......hence, he can do interiors.......

he sacrifices a LOT of detail, in favor of getting the work done quickly......

[box]

I read Y the last man, but only the Trades. There's 4 out right now and I think the 5th one is coming out in July.

[DS]

I'm not saying Ross is bad, but I just don't dig on his style....all his women look the same, and his guys are all fat, and look like they're wearing halloween costumes.....




Dude...its called proportion and does the term "spandex" come to mind? What you see there is what they would look like in real life. Think about it. Batman wouldn't be as "diesel" as some might think he is compared to Superman. Although his Flash could be a bit thinner because the Flash's metabolism kicks in uber fast therefore he's constantly losing weight while running.

[Taichi]

Spandex works for the Flash, and Superman, but Batman needs fucking KEVLAR.....

and I'm all about proportion........those guys need a Shatner-style girdle!

I don't want 'em to be RIPPED, just a little more definition, and less of that spare tire.......

he gets Aquaman right every time, but the Flash is WAY off......he should hire a swimmer, or track runner to model the Flash......

I'm an artist (and before anybody hits me up saying "Can you do better?" the answer is "NO", but I'm not a comic artist either, I'm an advertising artist).......I do have a critical eye, and even Ross admits that he could be better.....

his JLA posters are tops, I love the GL and Aquaman ones, but his Flash just kinda irks the shit out of me.......

[buyproduct]

Here is a guy who I think has a better art style than alex ross. His name is esad ribic. He did some work on the marvel book loki and has done some wolverine covers as well. His style is sharp, clean and very detailed. Check out his website to see some of his work.
http://www.eribic.com/

I like alex's work when he doesnt try to be too realistic. For example all the covers he did for battle of the planets.

[box]

I'm not sure if it's just me, but some of his females look downright ugly. The faces seem almost... manly.

http://www.alexrossart.com/gallery/characters/dcposters/canary.html

I like his batgirl though, but this might be because she has a mask on.

http://www.alexrossart.com/gallery/characters/dcposters/batgirl.html

[ViciousSLASH]

True Ross's flash irks me too, he should have a runners body, he does a really good superman though, and his Batman shouldn't be that beefy either.

Aquaman is perfect. I guess they look like people in Halloween costumes because basically thats what they are. But I understand the qualms ya'll have about Ross' work.

DS, Johns did make Hawkman awesome. His Hawkman took no shit from anyone ever. I really need to check out Rebirth.

[archetype]

Yo I think his females are fine. I just went over marvels and kingdom come and couldn't find one butterfaced woman. And the Black Canary doesn't look mannish there. Well actually when i saw what u typed and first looked at it i thought she did lol. But then i looked more and she was ok. Check out the other chicks there, they look fine.

Yo I still love his art, shit is tight. I forgot to mention the person who does Secret War. That is really good stuff there as well.

Just picked up The Ultimates 2 2-5 some ultimate secret and ultimate nightmare as well.

[Taichi]

Johns is a god, and I thank goodness he's working for DC every day.....

I read his Titans series right up until the new Speedy joined the team (I'm totally against the character, and show my distaste with my wallet), nothing against Johns, but EVERYTHING against Winick....

[P. Gorath]

frank quietly > all

[DJTakashi]

[QUOTE=archetype]Yo I still love his art, shit is tight. I forgot to mention the person who does Secret War. That is really good stuff there as well.QUOTE]

Gabrielle D'Otto, Del'Otto, something like that. He paints some hot shit. I think he started back in the day with those Marvel masterpiece cards.

[KidFlash]

You guys are right about Johns. He deserves the hype that Bendis gets and more. I've been reading his stuff since JSA#1. The guy can write anyone and make you care about them. And Rebirth just blew me away. I've been reading Flash off-and-on. Unfortunately, I've hated Porter's art since his JLA run (although I think it's worse now). I mean, Christ, you should be able to draw a guy running if you're gonna do a Flash comic.

Quietly's a pretty good artist but his people are also damned ugly. I'm looking forward to his All-Star Supes.

[Gamma Charge]

Batman/Superman #19: Supergirl outclasses Superman in all abilities?! Since when?? And why? (and what is the TRUE source of Superman's strength?)

I think Loeb blows, but this makes sense. If her ship left Krypton the same time as Superman's, but she took 30 years longer to arrive she should be stronger. During those 30 years she never used any of the solar charge that gives kryptonians their powers. It has also been stated various times that SUperman always holds back. Supposedly SG doesn't. More exposure to sunlight + not holding back like Kal = SG is more powerful.

[box]

Yo I think his females are fine. I just went over marvels and kingdom come and couldn't find one butterfaced woman. And the Black Canary doesn't look mannish there. Well actually when i saw what u typed and first looked at it i thought she did lol. But then i looked more and she was ok. Check out the other chicks there, they look fine.


She's basically a younger Captain Marvel LOL:

http://www.alexrossart.com/gallery/characters/dcposters/canary.html
http://www.alexrossart.com/gallery/characters/captainmarvel/capmarvel.html

Some other painters are Gabrielle Dell Otto, whose is extremely slow. But he's still pretty good. His characters are a lot more cut and tone than Alex Ross's (Yes I do find some of Alex's characters to be a bit on the hefty side of the scale). I just wish I don't have to wait 5 months between each issue of Secret War.

Greg Horn paints covers I think (She-hulk, Mystique, Elektra, among others). And Joe Jusko paints covers also every now and then. That's the guy that did the Marvel Masterpiece cards for series 1.

[Wellman]

I said it in the last comic thread, Bendis is great at personal stories as his non superhero stuff and his solo hero stuff have shown on Ultimate Spidey, Alias and Daredevil.

However when Marvel decided to basically give him the task of mainstreaming their universe, shit start to flow. I mean they were already giving the man a mountain of work and now they seem determined to exhaust his talents by feeding off the name he made for himself.

Seriously Avengers Disassembled was a travesty that I won't throw all the blame to Bendis feet but still, horrible book with a horrible concept.

Johns seems to not have such horrendous work thrust upon him and the work he is probably given (TT and GL: Rebirth) seems right up his alley of revitalizing classic concepts and characters without destroying them or just retreading on what has happened before.

[KidFlash]

She's basically a younger Captain Marvel LOL:

Some other painters are Gabrielle Dell Otto, whose is extremely slow. But he's still pretty good. His characters are a lot more cut and tone than Alex Ross's (Yes I do find some of Alex's characters to be a bit on the hefty side of the scale). I just wish I don't have to wait 5 months between each issue of Secret War.

Greg Horn paints covers I think (She-hulk, Mystique, Elektra, among others). And Joe Jusko paints covers also every now and then. That's the guy that did the Marvel Masterpiece cards for series 1.

Greg Horn must use Hustler mags for photo-reference because ev ery chick he draws has her legs spread and stuff. Plus, I think he uses digital coloring. Adi Granov did some of the She-Hulk covers and is doing Iron Man now. He's pretty damned good. Mike Mayhew's the guy doing the Mystique covers now and used to do Pulse.

There are lots of good photo-real painters but in terms of versatility alone none of them hold a candle to Ross. He can do sequential art and his designs are usually awesome. Some stuff just doesn't translate well into his art style--like his Clayface design is pretty bad. Plus his Power Girl looks quite manly.

Travis Charest and Adam Hughes are both really good (check out his WW covers). You should also check out Brian Stelfreeze if you can find any of his paintings online. Some fantasy artists like Julie Bell and the Hildebrandt brothers have done some Marvel stuff, but it ranges from pretty good to downright wrong-looking.

[archetype]

She's basically a younger Captain Marvel LOL:

http://www.alexrossart.com/gallery/...ers/canary.html
http://www.alexrossart.com/gallery/.../capmarvel.html

Some other painters are Gabrielle Dell Otto, whose is extremely slow. But he's still pretty good. His characters are a lot more cut and tone than Alex Ross's (Yes I do find some of Alex's characters to be a bit on the hefty side of the scale). I just wish I don't have to wait 5 months between each issue of Secret War.

LOL I see some similarity haha. But yeah man I keep walking into the comic store waiting for Secret War 5 cuz 4 was the shit. They keep telling me its late. Yo I need that ASAP and the last issue of REBIRTH.

BTW I was checking out FABLES yesterday. It looks pretty good. Anyone here have it? Its it worth opening my wallet for?

[buyproduct]

BTW I was checking out FABLES yesterday. It looks pretty good. Anyone here have it? Its it worth opening my wallet for? -- archetype

Fables is the best non superhero book I read. It never lets you down. James jean's covers are great and the concept of fairy tail characters living in the real world is excellent. I also love the mystery around who the adversary may be. You can catch up with it pretty quick seeing as all the previous story arcs are in trade format now.

[P. Gorath]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Stan Lee is coming into the office this afternoon!

I want to run home at lunch to get some books for him to sign, but it's so unprofessional. I would never dream of bothering an actor that comes in here for an autograph...but this is Stan Lee!

[DeadlyRaveNeo]

Well...Happy Free Comic Book Day to everyone !

[Wellman]

Happy Free Comic Book Day to all you good boys and girls.






Damn I wish I had a car right now.

[Geese Pants]

Happy FCB Day.......!!!

I got:

Marvel Age Spiderman #1
Teen Titans Go #1
Star Wars: Clone Wars
The Batman Strikes #1

And a manga preview book....

[Pained Auron]

what did you guys think of the age of apocalypse aniversary series that they did?

[archetype]

Yo I missed free comic day, stupid college move out day. Btw I have all the issues of the new age of apoc. I read 2 so far, I like it a lot. Plus i have the original age of apoc too :tup:

[Pained Auron]

i'm missing issue 5. it was very good. i finally read identity crisis. man i can't believe that i missed out on that when it first came out

[Carpet Lint]

I just finished reading every single Invincible issue out there right now. It's a damn good book - you guys were right. The dialogue, the art - everything just works together so well. What Ultimate Spider-Man should be. I think I'm going to pick up the hardcover when it comes out.

I will punch you in the face if you don't read Fables.

Back when Mark Waid was on Flash, who did pencils? Was it Salvador Larocca?

[KungfuJoe]

hmm how is Jim Lee a Silvestri rip off?
they practically broke out of comics almost at the same time and even when they started both of their works looked heavily like Art Adams'.


as a matter of fact they used to be in the same studio together called homage studios (Whilce Portacio and J Scott Campbell both were in there as well)until they parted ways and formed there owned


KFJ

[thurst]

anybody else reading ahead on ultimate spidey? i just got #75-76,haven't read them yet but this hobgoblin arc's drama is making up for that wolverine/doc strange suckiness that preceded it.

[KungfuJoe]

favorite artist

Travis Charest you can find his work at this website http://groups.msn.com/travischarest
check out his weekly web comic spacegirl

Jason pearson did team achilles unpublish red bird material and possible new body bags comic

Ed McGuinness will be doing more superman/batman later on you can find more of his work over at this site

http://www.artxilla.com/

Adam Hughes doing covers for DC's Catwoman and Powergirl check out his new website

http://www.justsayah.com/pages/AHpg1.html

Brian Stelfreeze new series he is doing is Matador on sale now.

Micheal Golden great artist that still does stuff from time to time so far he does not have a website but you can check out his work here.

http://comicartcommunity.com/gallery/categories.php?cat_id=58&sessionid=8aa7efa2330507d129701f045fcfd1bd

Masamune shirow of appleseed fame

masakazu kastura video girl ai, shadow lady ,Is character designs for Iria the animation
Satoshi shiki riot of the world and KamiXKaze fame

Kosuke Fujishima Ah My Goddess fame character designer for Sakura wars tv series and video game

Kazushi Hagiwara of Bastard fame

Hiroyuki Utatane Serphic feather fame

Satoshi Urushihara chsrscter designer of langrisser and plastic little

I will give a list of favorite writer later,

KFJ

[KungfuJoe]

Kurt Busiek not that great of a writer have you ever read Avenger forever that is some of the best Avengers stuff I have ever read, and with Carlos Pacheco art as well you need to check that book out.

KFJ

[ViciousSLASH]

Back when Mark Waid was on Flash, who did pencils? Was it Salvador Larocca?

Mike Wingorino

[KungfuJoe]

house of M artwork is done by Oliver Coipell who did a short stint on avengers and legion

Mark waids flash run had alot of artist in it not only ringo but Carlos Pacheco,and Oscar Jimenez

KFJ

[Zephyranthes]

I read the first Invincible trade back when it came out. It's pretty good, but I haven't read anything after it. The Walking Dead is my favorite Kirkman series. Walking Dead isn't so much a zombie/horror comic as it is a black and white zombie version of Y: The Last Man. And Charlie Adlard is such an impressive artist.

I don't really buy many monthly comics anymore. I prefer getting the paperbacks (or sexy hardcovers). My friends still get monthlies, so I'll read theirs, but pretty much the only ones I still get are Daredevil, Authority: Revolutions, and The Intimates. (I even stopped getting Fables on a monthly basis a while ago.) I was getting Human Target but that was unfortunately cancelled.

[Nemesis00]

anybody else reading ahead on ultimate spidey? i just got #75-76,haven't read them yet but this hobgoblin arc's drama is making up for that wolverine/doc strange suckiness that preceded it.
Ultimate Spidey has been pretty weak lately. It all started with the Carnage arc. The Logan mindswitch was wierd, yet nice in that sort of old school way. The Strange issues were awesome. It really gave some insight on some of Peter's fears and insecurities, especially when it comes to MJ. The Hobgoblin story is alright. Nothing special. I think Bendis can do much better. I can't wait for Moonknight to show up. Issue 100 should be good as well, since we get to see the debut of Ultimate Scorpion.

But what they gotta do is get rid of Bagley. His dirty eyebrows make me sick.

[Wellman]

Alright can someone tell me WTF?

Marvel Babies? (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=1408)

Tell me this isn't happening. TELL ME THIS ISN'T REALLY HAPPENING!!

Because it has to be the most pathetic idea to come out of Marvel since... the dawn of time.

[DeadlyRaveNeo]

lol hey, they gotta attract a new generation of fans, besides what are those anyway? doesn't look like they are ruining a comic by introducing those, like say......x-babies.

[DeadlyRaveNeo]

this is probably the funniest non golden/silver-age DC comic cover I have ever seen: (Dell Comics - Rifleman)

http://web2.chicagonet.net/~atlas/rflmnc.jpg

...that is just soooo wrong...also the cowboy looks a little like David Hasselhoff. lol

[Wellman]

this is probably the funniest non golden/silver-age DC comic cover I have ever seen: (Dell Comics - Rifleman)

http://web2.chicagonet.net/~atlas/rflmnc.jpg

...that is just soooo wrong...also the cowboy looks a little like David Hasselhoff. lol

Wow.

No wonder why they said comics were suggestive in those days. Or we all have our minds in the gutter. But seriously, shit like that is to it plainly wrong on an obvious level.

On a slightly similar note.

Newsarama.com: Omega The Unknown First Look (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33281)

Is it me or does the 'Touched up color picture' look a bit odd. Especially with the kid looking like he has a frown on his face like that.

[KidFlash]

Kurt Busiek not that great of a writer have you ever read Avenger forever that is some of the best Avengers stuff I have ever read, and with Carlos Pacheco art as well you need to check that book out.

KFJ

Sometimes Busiek's stuff can be really trite and retro like his Avengers run. It felt like I was reading a reprint the whole time, but Avengers Forever was brilliant from start to finish. It's like he was writing for adults while his other Avengers stuff was for kids.

You should also check out Arrowsmith, which also had art by Pacheco. Great stuff.

[arcticninja]

this is probably the funniest non golden/silver-age DC comic cover I have ever seen: (Dell Comics - Rifleman)

http://web2.chicagonet.net/~atlas/rflmnc.jpg

...that is just soooo wrong...also the cowboy looks a little like David Hasselhoff. lol


hahahahahah

[Sano]

House of M hype and shtuff...

http://www.dynamicforces.com/htmlfiles/interviews38.html

And Marvel Nemesis comic will be in stores this Wed., 5/11/05 so we can check out the new characters from the Marvel vs. EA game dubbed "Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects." There's supposed to be a new EA character every month. The Electric Guy shown in the screenshots is called Johnny Ohm. So far we know Spider-Man, Thing, Elektra and Wolverine are in the comic and the game.

EDIT: PSM confirms Iron Man's in too! :clap:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/futaenokiwami/Ironman3.jpg

[Geese Pants]

DC's new logo (http://www.dccomics.com/news/article_display.html?nw_dc_itemCode=notefrompublis her)

Is this for All-Stars only......?

[P. Gorath]

^^^ no, it's the new corporate logo for all comics, tv, film, video games. Warners made them do it.

other: I picked up the Batman: The Long Halloween HC trade the other week and just started reading it last night. I've always been a big Tim Sale fan from his work with Matt Wagner but I had never read anything by Jeff Loeb. I thought the first issue was very well done - the art was great and planned out on the page well and the pace was very fast and exciting. I cant wait for Lapham's arc to be collected and for Wagner to start his Batman arc (end of the year I believe)

[box]

I think the new logo is for everything. Bout time they updated their logo.

GL Rebirth #6 tomorrow as well as Astonishing X-men #10.

DC announced a "Prelude to Infinite Crisis" in June which I will probably pick up.

House of M #1 painted cover on www.marvel.com. Yay. Wolvie gets center spot again. stupid gimmicks to get all the wolvie fans on board.

[KidFlash]

Anyone else just not care about House of M? Nothing I've seen so far has gotten me really excited yet except for Pat Lee's Macross Iron Man. I gotta admit that looks damn cool.

I'll probably check out "Prelude", too. Has anyone been reading Morrison's Seven Soldier's stuff?

[Rogue328]

I just finished reading every single Invincible issue out there right now. It's a damn good book - you guys were right. The dialogue, the art - everything just works together so well. What Ultimate Spider-Man should be. I think I'm going to pick up the hardcover when it comes out.

I will punch you in the face if you don't read Fables.

Back when Mark Waid was on Flash, who did pencils? Was it Salvador Larocca?

I've been preaching about Invincible since two comic threads ago. I've been reading since issue #7, and have all the trades, so I'm all caught up.

The new Age of Apoc series was good. It tied up a lot of loose ends, which is always a plus for me in dealing with comic books.


When it comes to the house of M, I'm skipping the series itself. I might buy the trade. I will be buying the issues with Rogue in it, just to keep my collection going. I'll be getting the Spidey tie-in (by Mark Waid and Salvador Larroca, how can you go wrong) and the Iron Man tie-in (written by Greg Pak, one of my favorite new writers after Phoenix: Endsong).

Who else is checking out the Seven Soldiers minis? I know gorath is. So far, Klarion is my favorite one, although I dig Sook's pencils on Zatanna.

[DA GAME]

Starfire by MT (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/DAGAME26/Starfire.jpg)


Wonder how Rob Liefiled's would look

[Carpet Lint]

Hahaha The "Rifleman" - there's no way that was an accident.

Frank Miller and Jim Lee on Batman!?! What the hell, since when? Man, I don't know about anything that's going on anymore. Every since I started to pick up more trades instead of the monthlies, there's less need to keep up with stuff since "I'll just get the trade." Cheaper too!

I am actually surprised at how little I care about House of M. I knew I didn't care about it, but I am surprised at the depths of my uncaring. Just like the same way I was surprised at how little I missed hockey this year.

I'm sick of Marvel's and DC's big crossovers where I have to pick up two hundred issues over sixty titles to follow ONE damn story. And half the issues don't even have stories relevant to the main plot - they're just cheap ways to hook you in to a random Ultimate Secret Mutant X story. The Batman books tricked me enough times already - it took me a long while, but I eventually figured it out.

No more crossovers! Only mini-series. And only the ones with creators I really like.

I think I'm going to pick up the Mr. Miracle and Zantanna stories for Seven Soldiers. I'm not that interested in the book, but I do want to see what Grant "I'm Fucking Insane" Morrison has thought up for those two. And if they really blow my mind, then I'll think about getting the rest.

[Rogue328]

Carpet Lint: so far in Zatanna, we find out that she has lost her powers. I'm not sure if she straight up lost her powers, or just lost her passion for her magic. The issues are coming out every other month. I'm not sure when the Mr. Miracle mini starts. Check www.dccomics.com.

[Sano]

On about the tenth post of this link, I reviewed the Marvel Nemesis comic book for the negative 99999999.999999 percent of you who care about my dumb ass opinion. :wonder:

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2356848#post2356848

[KidFlash]

Carpet Lint: so far in Zatanna, we find out that she has lost her powers. I'm not sure if she straight up lost her powers, or just lost her passion for her magic. The issues are coming out every other month. I'm not sure when the Mr. Miracle mini starts. Check www.dccomics.com.

I believe Mr. Miracle starts in September. I'm really digging Shining Knight (#2 just came out) and Zatanna was cool, too. Nice to see her get some more exposure.

[box]

Picked up Astonishing Xmen and GL rebirth.

Spoilers

Astonishing X-men was superb. The danger room beat down the X-men harder than Deathstroke beat down the JLA in Identity Crisis. And the way she did it was awesome. After fighting/training with the x-men thousands of times she knew their tendencies, attack patterns and weaknesses and beat them all down pretty bad. And at the end of comic... she flies to Prof X. But Prof X isn't worried about her because Prof X states that the Danger Room has never fought against Prof X before. To be continued. Awesome issue.

GL Rebirth was alright. Hal jordan decking Batman was cool. And Alan Scott and Jade stopping the JLA from interfering was pretty cool too.

[buyproduct]

___________________
Spoiler
___________________

I thought astoniishing xmen was pretty lame. The danger room taking a sentient form and beating the xmen was a boring. You knew it was gonna happen. It was predictiable. And whats with colossus and kitty are they dead now or did kitty phase them out at just the right moment. Also i thought it was pretty weak that emma frost let the danger room punch her out for knowing her little secret. And what really gets me is that in every xbook the xmansion recieves major damage. I dont see how this issue and last issue couldnt of been combined into one issue.

[DeadlyRaveNeo]

Astonishing was awesome as usual. Go Xavier Go !!

[box]

Buyproduct: The issue was meant to be predictable. At the beginning of the issue, the danger room female was on the blackbird, communicating with Professor X telepathically, telling him that she already beat the x-men. Everyone who read the comic knew she beat down the x-men at that point.

I do agree that the last issue was very slow and almost pointless. It could have been combined into one issue, but I'm guessing Whedon just wanted a whole issue of action, and IMO he delivered.

[Nemesis00]

House of M preview is up. Looks pretty fucking good so far.
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0505/11/marvelfirsts.htm

Everyone who does not read Punisher should pick up The Cell. Good shit by Ennis as usual.

[KungfuJoe]

Sometimes Busiek's stuff can be really trite and retro like his Avengers run. It felt like I was reading a reprint the whole time, but Avengers Forever was brilliant from start to finish. It's like he was writing for adults while his other Avengers stuff was for kids.

You should also check out Arrowsmith, which also had
art by Pacheco. Great stuff.


I have that and it is a good read.

[KungfuJoe]

yep just what some one already stated that is the new DC logo for all of there books.


KFJ

[Carpet Lint]

Picked up four books this week - all were so excellent.

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

Fables - Not a particularly exciting issue (they never really are) but this book is just so good. I love the pacing of the series, how each new character is revealed like that. It's just so damn FUN.

Rebirth - Quality superhero kick ass stuff. Geoff Johns is good, but I didn't know Ethan Van Sciver(?) was that good too. Looks so pretty. And you gotta respect pretty much the only guy who can punk Batman out like that. I mean, punching him out is one thing, but beating him and making him know it - oh that's quality. I think I'll check out the new series when it comes out...depending on what the team is. Will it be the same team by any chance?

Rann/Thanagar - Surprisingly fun, even though I don't know jack about any of the characters. Ivan Reis' pencils are so pretty. I don't remember what I remember him from. I thought it was Pop Mhan (Spyboy) at first, but I'm just insane.

Astonishing X-Men - I love this book. The best book Marvel puts out, I think. Which isn't saying all that much these days, but damn this book is fun. Art so good - I love that one page where everyone's jumping at the baddie and there's all the information listed out and stuff about each of them - I know you all took the time to squint and read it all. And this Wheldon guy seems to know how to write a monthly comic book. Cliffhanger endings baby - that's how you do it. Cliffhangers is what made Hush so enjoyable (even though it really wasn't that good if you think about it), because it was fun to wait a month for the next issue.

And damn, Charlie had an official badass moment. I can't even recall any other ones off the top of my head. Maybe when he beat the Dark Phoenix or when he punked Beast and Wolverine at basketball the same issue Colossus died. That's all the badass Xavier moments I can recall off the top of my head.

LOL, she straight up murderized Colossus and Shadowcat. That was pretty cool. I don't really know how we can be expected to believe they survived having a huge chunk of metal stabbed through their stomachs.

Or maybe...those were...wait for it...wait for it...

...IMPOSTERS???

But of course.

END SPOILERS

I like comic books.

[Nemesis00]

I don't know why, but I really dislike Astonishing. I'm dropping it once Whedon is done with it. I think it's because there are like six X books, and almost all of them have Logan. They should can all of them but Uncanny and Astonishing, and move Logan to New Avengers.

[box]

Carpet Lint: I think Geoff Johns is still on board for Green Lantern #1. But the new Artist is gonna be Carlos Pacheco.

Nemesis: Whedon is gonna be on board for another year. After #12, he and Cassidy are gonna take a couple months off, then start up again with #13-24.

[Nemesis00]

So I've heard. All I know is I'll be reading just to see where this story goes, and then it goes straight into storage.

[Sano]

Yo, did anyone check out the Friday teh 13th comic book? The book had MAXIMUM CARNAGE! If you like seeing blood and gore this is a must buy!

********SPOILERS*********

Jason chopped a guy in half, ripped someone's heart out, punched a guy's head so hard his head went inside his body and came out his Ass, someone got chopped into peices, that joint RULED! :badboy: :badboy: :badboy: :badboy: :badboy:

[The_DarkOne]

I dont know if anyone meantioned this already, but lately i've been reading "Cable & Deadpool" and it really makes me want to read the old Deadpool stuff.. god damn he's an awesome character :D

[LostPhrack]

I grabbed a bunch of things this past week. Not much that came out this week though, haven't been to the store since Saturday. Anywho..

Street Fighter #14 - A bit to clean of an ending for my tastes, but..eh. I liked watching Vega do something lethal, even if it was to no names. Ah well. Dug the hell out of the Cheap Shotz too.

Blade of the Immortal #99 - All set up for the big throwdown in issue #100 which I still don't have. Some surviving Itto Ryu members, including Magatsu, track down Manji to avenge their fallen comrades. Manji's cock as hell until one of them busts out their secret weapon, a little gift left over from Cry of the Worm.

Cinnamon: El Ciclo #1-3 and #5 - I couldn't find issue #4 which sucks. It's written by the creator of Hopeless Savages, which I like, so I figured I'd give it a short, plus I got them for like.. $3 or something. It's not too bad, a little on the slow side. The art reminds me of Risso's art though, and the story made me think of Kill Bill. A young girl watches her father, a cop, gunned down during a bank robbery. Ten years later she tracks down the robbers and kills them all one by one. Ten years later the daughter of one of the robbers comes knocking. Cinnamon's now wracked with guilt over having done to someone else what was done to her, plus the girl's doing good work too boot, protecting orphans from abusive parents, pimps, etc. More drama then action, though issue #4 sounds like it was just a big gun fight... dunno though since I'm missing it.

Shade #1 - The first issue of the Shade mini-series, spun off of Starman. Written by Robinson with art by Gene Ha. Not too bad, it shows his first encounter with the Ludlows and apparently the entire series just chronicles his feud with them. It'll probably never be collected so when I saw this in a box with other free comics on FCBD I grabbed it up. I also got Sandman: Orpheus at FCBD but I haven't read that, read it in the TPB ages ago, loved it then. Just grabbed it for collectibility really..

Sharknife OGN - The first comic created solely by Rey! It's.. fun. Really, really fun. Fast paced, weird, quirky, etc. The story goes like this, this five story chinese restaurant opened up in town and it puts this yakuza's smoke shop out of business. All the gangster's go their now, plus all the non-criminal families because the food's so good. So what's they yakuza guy do? Why he puts monsters in the restaurants walls! Every now and then weird Power Ranger-esque kaiju monsters pop out and cause problems, when this happens one of the busboys eats a fortune cookie and turns into Sharknife. It's a silly as hell premise, but the whole thing is just a big wacky fun comic. Rey wears his influences on his sleeves too. Sharknife has special moves which he details, inlcuding controller movements like in fighting game manuals. The whole comics basically one big fight after another, first a giant crab monster, then an octopus/jellyfish hybrid, then a giant bear, etc. Sharknife pops up, kicks the shit out of them with style, the end. Funny stuff though, the dialogue's silly, guest appearances from a group of Power Ranger like chef's, stuff like "Oh noes!" make it in, etc. I dug the hell out of it myself.

The Oni FCBD comic - It's a flip book with a story from another Oni OGN, Hysteria, and a Sharknife story as well. Hysteria's pretty funny actually, it follows the path of an uzi that falls out of a special ops helicopter into the ghetto. Silliness ensues as a wannabe thug, and then a cat burgular both end up using it for a short period of time. The Sharknife story is just a fight scene. A friendly rival of Sharknife's shows up and challenges him to a fight, they fight, Sharknife busts out a limit break and wins, the end. Heh.

The DDP FCBD comic - The Darkstalkers thing was the only good thing in it. Didn't like the GI Joe or the other story, both were weak and uninteresting for me. The DS is the one that appeared in last years Summer Special and it's basically just Morrigan's origin story. Short but kind of neat.

I need to get to the store this week, they're tracking down a copy of Blade of the Immortal #100 for me, plus I need to check in and see if the Vampire Hunter D book has hit the stands yet.

[Carpet Lint]

Carpet Lint: I think Geoff Johns is still on board for Green Lantern #1. But the new Artist is gonna be Carlos Pacheco.
Oh SHIT, that's even better. Damn, that's another book I have to blow money on. I won't be able to wait for the trade. I never can. They call out my name - I am powerless.

Yeah, now that you mention it, I remember someone (you?) mentioning Geoff Johns + Carlos Pacheco on Green Lanturn #1 and I said essentially the same thing back then too.

____

I've seen some of Rey's stuff before - the back-ups in Street Fighter (before I dropped it), and I think I used to check out his site way before. His stuff is fun. If I see Sharknife, I'll pick it up. Sounds really kickass.

I just don't really know if I'll ever see it around. Might have to go downtown to check out the smaller labels.
____

Darky - Deadpool's own monthly used to be really fun. It first launched with Joe Kelly (I think) and Ed McGuinness and I thought it was one of the best books out there. I thought it was both writer and artist at their best.

Then like twenty issues in it got a little stale, teams changed...and then around issue #70-something, they rebooted the book with Gail Simone and those guys from Street Fighter. Alvin Lee...? Andy Lau...? Wait, that might just be a random Chinese name that popped into my head. Whatever.

That was great too, when they threw in Taskmaster and everything. Then Marvel did some weird stuff in trying to change to book to Agent X and stuff, and promptly managed to kill one of their fastest growing books. Nice.

You probably can't find any of those books around though - no trades if I remember correctly. So I don't really know why I told you all this. Might be able to find back-issues if you really want (I don't think you want it that bad) or maybe just download them.

[KidFlash]

Joe Kelly's Deadpool was awesome and funny as hell. He transformed him from a wise-cracking Deathstroke rip-off and gave him some growth and personality. But, yeah, it ran out of steam pretty early. I think you're right about Alvin Lee or one of those guys. Andy Lau was the dude from Flying Daggers.

[LostPhrack]

I've seen some of Rey's stuff before - the back-ups in Street Fighter (before I dropped it), and I think I used to check out his site way before. His stuff is fun. If I see Sharknife, I'll pick it up. Sounds really kickass.

I just don't really know if I'll ever see it around. Might have to go downtown to check out the smaller labels.

Yeah, I really dug it. I can see where it wouldn't be for everyone though and I'm betting a lot of people which just kind of.. toss it aside and say it's crap. It's just so quirky and off the wall that it's gotta turn a lot of folks off, but I dug it. It's also about 130 pages and $10, and there's a second volume due out this fall which is supposed to be the end of the story.

Oni's trying that out with a few books now, serialized OGN's, they have some horror book out, Hysteria, Sharknife and Scott Pilgrim or whatever it is.

[box]

Picked up MK Spider-man #14 and Young Avengers #4. A little disapointed with both.

MK Spidey has good art, crappy characterization. Story seems like it's heading somewhere at least so I will continue to see what happens.

Young Avengers... well I'm just not a big fan of time travel stories.

Next week, Amazing Spidey and FF. Woot. I'll probably also pick up the SEcret War secret files.

In other news, Kelsey Grammer has signed on to play Beast in X-men 3.

[The_DarkOne]

Darky - Deadpool's own monthly used to be really fun. It first launched with Joe Kelly (I think) and Ed McGuinness and I thought it was one of the best books out there. I thought it was both writer and artist at their best.

Then like twenty issues in it got a little stale, teams changed...and then around issue #70-something, they rebooted the book with Gail Simone and those guys from Street Fighter. Alvin Lee...? Andy Lau...? Wait, that might just be a random Chinese name that popped into my head. Whatever.

That was great too, when they threw in Taskmaster and everything. Then Marvel did some weird stuff in trying to change to book to Agent X and stuff, and promptly managed to kill one of their fastest growing books. Nice.

You probably can't find any of those books around though - no trades if I remember correctly. So I don't really know why I told you all this. Might be able to find back-issues if you really want (I don't think you want it that bad) or maybe just download them.

yea i tried looking for somewhere to download scans from, but i've come up with nothing :(

I just hope that "Cable & Deadpool" keeps it up, because at the moment i am loving every single page :D

[Nemesis00]

Anyone here ever read the Sentry series by Jenkins? Just wanted to know who has. If you haven't, get it.

[Gamma Charge]

Yesterday it was announced that Johns final issue of the Flash will be #225, the conclusion to Rogue War. It comes out in August. Stuart Immonen(sp?) does a 1 shot fill-in story the following month. Darwyn Cooke(new Frontier) will write a 4 issue story after that. The new regular writer has not been announced. Porter will stay on as the penciler.

None of this is too surprising with all the new work Johns is taking on. His regular series are Teen Titans, JSA and now Green Lantern. He is also co-writing a 5 issue arc in JLA starting in June or July, a 3 issue arc in JSA Classified also starting in July and he will be writing the Infinite Crisis mini starting in October. Something had to give.

[Carpet Lint]

DAMN IT!!! That just isn't right.

[FreddyL0c0]

haha at Wanda flirting with the prototype version of the Vision in Ultimates.

cant wait for 1602 tpb, heard it was great

[thurst]

yea i tried looking for somewhere to download scans from, but i've come up with nothing :(

I just hope that "Cable & Deadpool" keeps it up, because at the moment i am loving every single page :D


megaman.gotdns.com on dc++, you can just about any scan you want there.

[box]

Freddy: 1602 had a good buildup until the ending. Marvel is making a sequel to the series however it won't be written by Neil Gaiman.

What am I gonna get today? Amazing spidey, Fantastic four, secret war secret files. Let's hope JMS can pull some magic on FF this time.

[Wellman]

Yesterday it was announced that Johns final issue of the Flash will be #225, the conclusion to Rogue War. It comes out in August. Stuart Immonen(sp?) does a 1 shot fill-in story the following month. Darwyn Cooke(new Frontier) will write a 4 issue story after that. The new regular writer has not been announced. Porter will stay on as the penciler.

None of this is too surprising with all the new work Johns is taking on. His regular series are Teen Titans, JSA and now Green Lantern. He is also co-writing a 5 issue arc in JLA starting in June or July, a 3 issue arc in JSA Classified also starting in July and he will be writing the Infinite Crisis mini starting in October. Something had to give.

All good things...

On a slightly different side of departures, when is JMS going to leave AMS? I thinking about picking up a Spiderman and I don't want to wait till Peter David gets his title in the fall.

[box]

Wellman: JMS has no plans to leave AMS anytime soon. The 2nd of his 6-part arc comes out today and it features the new avengers I believe.

[Wellman]

Dang.

Don't get me wrong I have no problem with JMS, it is just that even before the 'Sins' incident, he has done nothing at all really memorable for the character for me, except maybe reveal to Aunt May Peter's secret.

And it should be noted, I am in the camp of persons that didn't and still think that May should have stayed dead. Seriously, that was great death shot straight to hell, for no reason.

[box]

Wellman: No worries. Everybody's got their favorites and their non-favorites. =)

Picked up Wizard summer preview issue. Couple things that I will definitely pick up.

JLA 115: Batman confronts the league about his mindwipe from identity crisis. Geoff johns and allan heinberg writing. Wowzahs.

House of M: Not too excited, but i'll only be picking up the main issues and none of those side stories.

Justice #1: Alex Ross 12-issue bimonthly mini series. He will be painting the covers, and will be painting over Brathwraite's pencils.

Supergirl #1: Jeph loeb will start this one up after superman/batman finishes. Ian churchill pencilling.

[Brandon Lee]

Went to the comic shop today for the first time in a long time. Too long. Im so out of the mix I almost feel lost. Picked up some new issues of ongoings. Mostly Marvel stuff. Whats decent as far as new comics that I can easily catch up on?

[P. Gorath]

just read trades

[thurst]

ult x, ult fantastic 4, & batgirl are my fave books now, ult spidey is picking up too.

[FistsofFury]

Just picked up the 6th and final issue of Green Latern Rebirth.

I was a little disappointed. Paralax went out like a bitch to me.

[DeadlyRaveNeo]

Went to the comic shop today for the first time in a long time. Too long. Im so out of the mix I almost feel lost. Picked up some new issues of ongoings. Mostly Marvel stuff. Whats decent as far as new comics that I can easily catch up on?

----golden rule of comics----

Vertigo comics = ALWAYS good (once every 1000 titles or something you get something you won't like).

-----------------------------

As for Marvel, the current line of teen Marvel titles are quite decent and entertaining as well (Runaways v2, Young Avengers, etc).
Astonishing X-men is gold, if you are gonna pick up one X-title this is it.

read newsarama.com for comic news

Also talk to your local retailer !!!


----------------------------------------------------------------

New stuff:

Sleeper finally comes to an end, that was a fun ride. I dunno what else Wildstorm is planning when it comes to new titles but they really need to add more. Matador is good (heh, notice some 100 Bullets parallels in this comic? The woman's name is Izzy Cordona (Dizzy Cordova of 100 bullets) and there's DA Graves), Planetary 23 is coming out in 2 weeks and I'm not digging all the other titles.
I just read Chaykin's Legend mini and that was quite....bad. lol the last page especially left a big WTF !?!?! expression on my face.

100 Bullets is pretty fun right now, you might have to take out all those notes though since some characters you havent seen in a long time have surfaced (heh, expected from an Azarello work to either read in trades or keep notes so you won't get lost in the story, keep track of who killed/supposed to kill/wants to kill/going to kill who). Seems like all the pieces are in and the moves are being made but of course, this being Azarello, you won't see the entire picture until the dust settles, but what I see so far is pretty damn intriguing.

[RoninChaos]

Thought you were dead, Brandon.

[Tibertron]

Thought you were dead, Brandon.

I thought prison.

[Brandon Lee]

----golden rule of comics----

Vertigo comics = ALWAYS good (once every 1000 titles or something you get something you won't like).

I can pretty much agree with that. I dont recall ever reading anything they put out which wasn't worthwhile.


As for Marvel, the current line of teen Marvel titles are quite decent and entertaining as well (Runaways v2, Young Avengers, etc).
Astonishing X-men is gold, if you are gonna pick up one X-title this is it.

I almost picked up Runaways today, but hesitated because I was in a rush and wanted to read up on it some. Which is what I want to do with alot of the new stuff I've seen. Astonishing X-men is the about the only X-men book that I didn't pick up today. It slipped my mind to ask about it and I didn't come across it at the shop.

I'm actually particularly interested in this book because I'm a big fan of Joss Whedon. They shouldn't be too hard to find yet. So I ended up getting newer issues of the usual stuff I used to read. Also picked up 4 and The New Avengers, which both seem good so far. As well as New X-men (which I havent read yet).

Has anyone here read the Metal Gear comics? I skimmed through one today and it seemed kind of dull in my opinion.

Thought you were dead, Brandon.
So they say. You're about the 10th person to say that since I've been back. Perhaps its the name that brings death to mind when people wonder where I vanished to.

[Nemesis00]

If you want to get into Marvel, here are some books that I'll suggest.

Astonishing X-Men, the only X book worth
Spectacular Spidey, just ended at issue #26, but Jenkins did a good run, so it's worth picking up the trades
New Avengers. my favorite book on the market right now. The Sentry story arc starts soon.
If you like Daredevil at all then picking up the trades of the Bendis run is good idea since he has one story arc left.
The Punisher is fucking awesome.
And I'd also suggest the Sentry miniseries written by Jenkins. It is what I would consider to be the best comic story I've ever read. Jae Lee's art is amazing. A very inspiring story.

If you have specific characters you like, name them and we can suggest their better books or stories.

[Xero Kaiser]

I might be a little late with this, just moved back to the states and actually have a selection of comic books to buy again, but what's this I hear about Supreme Power moving from the MAX line?

[Nemesis00]

They're taking it from MAX into just Marvel Knights. Reason why is because it's easier to profit from a MK title, maybe even getting a movie deal. That and you can actually do things with other Marvel characters in a MK book. Example, you can't have Spidey show up in a Punisher book if it's a MAX title.

[Airthrow]

I need some comic recommendations. I've read every issue of Fables and I'm currently working on The Sandman. Both are great, I also read and loved The Preacher and 100 bullets. Any recommendations you guys can make for my tastes? No superhero books, I do like weird stuff.

Edit: Also loving Y the Last Man.

[Nemesis00]

Preacher? Ennis is doing Punisher MAX right now. He just recently did a one shot called Punisher: The Cell. If you want, you can buy that, and if you like that, you can pick up the trades for Punisher MAX.

[Xero Kaiser]

I thought supreme power took place in it's own continuity? it's not like spiderman is showing up anyway

[Wellman]

I hope to god they don't try to shoe horn any Marvel characters into Supreme Power. The book is a great read and should be sold as such, pushing Wolverine or Spidey into the universe will only come off as the cheap sales grab that it is.

But seriously, I think the last time a cheap sales grab cameo worked was She-Hulk. All the other numerous ones that have come up are crap.

[SA.M]

I thought supreme power took place in it's own continuity? it's not like spiderman is showing up anyway

Yes. The Squadron Supreme is in it's own reality.

The only people related to the Squadron from the mainstream timeline are the Avengers. So if anything an Avenger might make a cameo. But this will only occur if a character teleports or something along those lines. So a Squadron member will have to be teleported to the mainstream time line or an Avenger might be teleported to the Squadron timeline.

That's what occured with original Squadron Supreme comics. Nighthawk was teleported to the mainstream Marvel universe where he met Captain.

[Xero Kaiser]

I hope to god they don't try to shoe horn any Marvel characters into Supreme Power. The book is a great read and should be sold as such, pushing Wolverine or Spidey into the universe will only come off as the cheap sales grab that it is

I don't think they if they wanted to. in supreme power Hyperion is the 1st superpowered being to show up on earth. it wouldn't make sense for hyperion to feel so different early in the story if all these other superhumans were running around. plus, his arrival was the reason other superhuman people started showing up at all wasn't it?

[thurst]

wait, so supreme power is a new marvel universe?

[box]

The squadron supreme is in it's own reality and they have crossed over into the avengers universe before.

J michael straczynski's supreme power is a separate interpretation of the squadron supreme is in a seperate reality all together. This version has never met anybody in the regular 616 marvel universe.

I picked up house of M. It's actually better than I expected. And it's a good thing that it's bi-monthly too.

Also picked up Superman/batman. PRetty lame this time around.

Brandon: Try Fantastic Four. They just got a new writer/artist team with #527 to hype up the new movie.

[Brandon Lee]

Brandon: Try Fantastic Four. They just got a new writer/artist team with #527 to hype up the new movie.

Picked up issue 527 today actually. Good timing I guess. Speaking of the movie, the trailer is outstanding. I hope this movie delivers.

[Wellman]

Personally I don't think the movie will deliver due to the fact that it looks like they are going to spend a good amount of time on set up, which to me kills most comic movies.

Adding Doom to the mix as the first villian also seems like horrible idea, but who knows it may deliver on the same level the Blade movies did in making the character(s) badass and entertaining.

Although a few of the classic stories have already made the FF as badass as I think they can possibily be.

[Zephyranthes]

I need some comic recommendations. I've read every issue of Fables and I'm currently working on The Sandman. Both are great, I also read and loved The Preacher and 100 bullets. Any recommendations you guys can make for my tastes? No superhero books, I do like weird stuff.

Edit: Also loving Y the Last Man.

I highly recommend Ex Machina if you haven't read it. It's also by Brian K. Vaughan, with art by Tony Harris (Starman, JSA: Liberty Files). Basic premise: in a real world setting, a guy gets the superhuman ability to communicate with machinery/electronics and becomes mayor of New York City. It's very good and the first paperback is available for 10 bucks, and it collects 5 issues.

Human Target, published by Vertigo was really good. There's the first trade collecting the original miniseries, and then an original graphic novel that leads into two trades for the ongoing. Unfortunately, the series was cancelled at issue 21 and it's doubtful there will be further collections. It's written by Peter Milligan, though, and Milligan doing his own thing is always top tier writing.

Teenagers From Mars is a graphic novel by Rick Spears and Rob G. It's a fun tale of teenage rebellion and serves as a love letter to the comic book artform.

I like The Walking Dead by Robert Kirkman (published by Image). It's kinda like Y: The Last Man, but with zombies as the apocalyptic event that mysteriously rocks the planet. I think most people would recommend Kirkman's Invincible, but I definitely prefer The Walking Dead.

Paul Chadwick's Concrete series is also very awesome. It's about a guy who is altered by aliens and his brain is transplanted into a concrete body (think of the Thing, but less craggy). The story takes a very real world approach, so there aren't many superheroics to be found. Rather, the character is used as a vehicle to tell poignant stories about nature and the human condition. Each collection is pretty self-contained, so you can start anywhere.


I recently picked up the first Stray Bullets trade (David Lapham). I haven't read all of it, but it's critically acclaimed and what I have read, I really like. It's a good dark noirish crime comic with plenty of violence, but with strong characterization. It ain't just violence for the hell of it.

Any comics by Adrian Tomine (published Drawn and Quarterly) are worth picking up if you enjoy short fiction. Slice of life stories featuring young people with problems are his specialty, and he executes his stories so well with his crisp artwork. On that note, Same Difference And Other Stories by Derek Kirk Kim (published by Top Shelf) is another good one. Kim's stories tend to be a little more cartoony in art style and his stories tend to be more humorous. It's good stuff. You can check out some of Kim's work over at www.lowbright.com I just have a big fondness for anthology-style indie comics. Daniel Clowes has good stuff, of course, and I got nothing but love for Harvey Pekar and American Splendor.

A few other comics I like and recommend are Sandman Mystery Theatre and Shade, the Changing Man (both published by Vertigo). SMT is quality crime comics with a pulp-noir feel. Technically, it has superheroes, but I think you might enjoy it. Some comics are just plain superhero comics, but SMT is at its heart a crime comic that happens to have a guy who wears a mask every once in a while. Shade is another Peter Milligan comic. It's too hard to for me to describe at 3AM, but it's quality. Basically, if you like weird comics, Shade is for you. It's probably the weirdest mainstream comic series I have ever read. Both of those series lasted about 70 issues... Unfortunately, there aren't very many trades (only one for Shade and two for SMT), but the back issues are worth tracking down if you can find them cheap in a back issue bin or on eBay.

Lastly, if you haven't checked it out, I have to recommend Top Ten by Alan Moore (published by ABC). It's got superheroes galore, but you've never seen anything like it before. It pokes fun at the conventions of the superhero genre while at the same time, somehow maintains a reverence and fondness for the genre. Top Ten is about a police precinct in a world in which every citizen has powers. It's got twists and lots of great subplots spread out over twelve issues (two trades). Each issue is pretty episodic, but it does have many plot elements that carry over. I'd describe Top Ten as a cross between the best elements of Astro City (wide-eyed sense of wonder, respect for superhero genre), Gotham Central (unique examination of superheroes, crime stories, ensemble cast with continuing subplots), and Fables (rich mythology of characters).

Hopefully, at least one of those comics will satisfy your reading jones. I really love all of those and I hope you do check 'em out if you get the chance!

[Nemesis00]

If the FF movie would have been set during the whole 60's space race with Russia, it would have been a great movie.

[BuRn|NgVx]

Anyone read house on M yet? seems pretty meh.

[KidFlash]

House of M was better than I expected but I still don't really care about the whole crossover, though Pat Lee Iron Man looks pretty awesome. It would've worked better if Marvel could've made their titles synch up like DC did with Countdown. Right now I'm giving Seven Soldiers my attention and I'm checking out some of the Countdown books. I won't be checking out House of M unless I get really high recommendations.

[P. Gorath]

I need some comic recommendations. I've read every issue of Fables and I'm currently working on The Sandman. Both are great, I also read and loved The Preacher and 100 bullets. Any recommendations you guys can make for my tastes? No superhero books, I do like weird stuff.

Edit: Also loving Y the Last Man.
1. Stray Bullets
2. Grendel - 40 issue comico series (some available in trades, some recently reprinted by dark horse), 10 issue War Child (aka #41-50) and thats all you really need. If you want to check out Grendel Tales, get Devils and Deaths, Devil In Our Midst, or Devil's Hammer

[Airthrow]

I didn't like Stray Bullets very much, it was decadent and stuff but it just didn't do anything for me.

Will check out you guys' other recommendations, 'preciate it.

[Geese Pants]

What's this I hear.........Bucky's coming back??!?!1

[DeadlyRaveNeo]

spoilers





























--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
on the last panel of cap am. that was supposedly him, although an older scruffy looking bucky, but there is really no confirmation of his identity other than sharon telling cap that he looks like an older Bucky. Just gotta wait till Brubaker finishes the arc I guess.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Nemesis00]

http://www.newsarama.com/wwphilly05/Marvel/CupOJoe/Pulse_11.jpg
Logan looks like such a douche.

[box]

Wow.

Adam and Andy Kubert both just signed 3 year exclusive deal with DC comics.

Should be very interesting to see them take on the DC characters.

[LostPhrack]

We3 Optioned by NewLine (http://www.comingsoon.net/news.php?id=9923)

Not much else to say about it really. It's been optioned by NewLine and Morrison's supposed to script it. That's all they have so far.

[Taichi]

the Kuberts at DC?

sweet.....

DC has some talent, and great characters, I really think things are shaping up over there.....

the stories are getting better and better.....it truly is a good time to be a DC fan....

[Rogue328]

Wow.

Adam and Andy Kubert both just signed 3 year exclusive deal with DC comics.

Should be very interesting to see them take on the DC characters.
Hmm, so I guess Andy Kubert doing a follow up to either Origin or 1602 are out of the works. That's a damn shame.

Andy Kubert on Superman? I can only pray it happens.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brandon, do yourself a favor and don't relegate yourself to picking up only DC or Marvel books. Just take a walk around the comic shop, and pick out whatever piques your interest. Here are a few suggestions:


Preacher (by Garth Ennis)
Transmetropolitan (by Warren Ellis)
Invincible (by Robert Kirkman)
Walking Dead (by Robert Kirkman)
Fables (by Bil Willingham)
Conan (published by Dark Horse)


For Preacher and Transmet, pick up the trades. The Preacher series was just re-released, and in my opinion, is the best comic series, ever.

Human Target is/was another great Vertigo series. I cut it a few months ago, but I'll probably get the trades.

The only series I listed that isn't out in trade paperback is Conan, but they should be printing one soon enough.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Haven't been here in a while. I'm back to give my very biased opinions.

Invincible keeps getting better. Kirkman's coming to a big build up; can't wait for issue 25 to come out.

So far, I'm passing on the House of M. Somehow, I feel that House of M is Bendis' way of justifying Avengers Chaos. I can imagine Bendis pitching this series to Marvel:

Bendis: "Look, the Scarlet Witch is an evil bitch."
Marvel: "How so?"
Bendis: "Look. *scribbles a bunch of shit on a napkin* See? Evil."
Marvel: "My God, you're right. Where do we go from here?"
Bendis: "... Lemme come up with some shit first. I'll just make her powers more powerful. 'Cause I can do that."

Iron Man: House of M looks badass; I'll be getting that. After Phoenix: Endsong, I'm digging Greg Pak's writing.

And I'm totally buying into DC: Infinite Crisis. So far I'm getting OMAC Project, Rann/Thanagar War, Villians United, and the JLA tie-in. I actually give a shit about what DC is doing, as opposed to Marvel, which I don't really care about as much.

Throw in Morrison's Seven Soldiers, and I'm slowly becoming a DC fanboy. Oh noes.

[Carpet Lint]

Lol, why do you want a sequel to Origin?

To me, Origin didn't even happen. Just like how Jordan never came back as a Wizard through 2001-2003 and the movie Batman & Robin was never made. I refuse to believe it.

As for comics I've been reading...

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABLEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!

[Adam Warlock]

Lol, why do you want a sequel to Origin?

To me, Origin didn't even happen. Just like how Jordan never came back as a Wizard through 2001-2003 and the movie Batman & Robin was never made. I refuse to believe it.

As for comics I've been reading...

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABLEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!
Origin was so garbage it hurt.

[box]

Rogue: They're making a new 1602 sequel written by Greg Pak. I'm not sure who the artist is gonna be... (definitely not the kuberts as you mentioned).

[FreddyL0c0]

house of m was chill, liked the twist at the end.

I also picked up new warriors just out of curiosity, pretty funny. I guess Microbe is there for comic relief.

Just waiting on Supreme Power, Astonishing and Young Avengers.

[Brandon Lee]

Brandon, do yourself a favor and don't relegate yourself to picking up only DC or Marvel books. Just take a walk around the comic shop, and pick out whatever piques your interest. Here are a few suggestions:

I'm not. Never have really. Like I said, I was just pressed for time and picked up stuff I was reading before. I've picked up some differnt things since.

The ones you listed sound interesting. Particularly Preacher, Walking Dead, and Fables. I'll check them all out though. Thanks for the info.

House of M seems good so far. We'll see what happens.

What's the deal with The Spectacular Spider-Man? Did it end with #27?

[DA GAME]

DA GAME noticed in his Wizard issue that there will be a Superman vs Wonder Woman match-up that ties in with the Infinite Crisis storyline.Why does she have on a blindfold?

[Zephyranthes]

Rogue: They're making a new 1602 sequel written by Greg Pak. I'm not sure who the artist is gonna be... (definitely not the kuberts as you mentioned).


I believe the artist is Greg Tocchini. (Not sure if I spelled his last name correctly.) He did the art for some Thor miniseries a while back, and he's also done some stuff for CrossGen.

Brandon Lee- Spectacular Spider-Man did indeed end with issue 27 (which I highly recommend picking up, as it was a really well-produced story). Paul Jenkins' final take on Spider-Man with art by good ol' Mark Buckingham (and painted by D'Israeli, no less). The four issues prior to 27 were pretty much rubbish, though, so if they get lumped together with #27 in the collected edition, it won't be worth buying.

[box]

Da game: I think she got blinded in a fight with Medusa.

[Rogue328]

Lol, why do you want a sequel to Origin?

To me, Origin didn't even happen. Just like how Jordan never came back as a Wizard through 2001-2003 and the movie Batman & Robin was never made. I refuse to believe it.

As for comics I've been reading...

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABLEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!
To be honest, I've been a Wolverine fanboy since I started reading comics. So yeah, I'd love to see at least a continuation of Origin. We finally get to see how it began.

But by no means am I endorsing Origin as a good series. It wasn't. Paul Jenkins, whose run on Spectacular Spider-Man I enjoyed and will miss greatly, got in over his head. Wolverine: The End is evidence of that.

In reality, we need Barry Windsor-Smith to do a follow-up to Weapon X, but that will probably never happen. :sad:


box - Yeah, I knew Greg Pak was writing the next 1602, and I was hoping Andy Kubert would come back on pencils, but I guess that isn't going to happen now. Andy Kubert hadn't done any work for a long time, so I was kind of hoping he was doing work for the next 1602 series, but that shit ain't happening now.

Kubert Exclusive with DC (http://www.dccomics.com/news/article_display.php?nw_dc_itemCode=kuberts_exclusi ve)

I'm surprised this didn't happen earlier, with all the work their father, Joe Kubert, did for DC. I pray to God Andy Kubert does Superman at some point.

Regarding Fables, I just finished the fifth tpb. After I got volume 6, I'll start buying the issues.

DA GAME, Wonder Woman blinded herself or was blinded to fight the Medusa. She's been blind since.

[Airthrow]

When you guys say Origin, do you mean the Wolverine Origin story about him and that redheaded woman he grew up with in Canada? Where he was a miner at some time? I forget I read it a long time ago.

If so, I didn't think that story was bad at all.

Is the sandman still running? I am up to issue 45 now. I wish there was a way for me to legally download .cbr files, I am pretty much an acetic and I don't want to actually own a ton of comics, but I would love to support the ones I love...any ideas on how to do this?

[Nemesis00]

I believe Wolverine: The End was a continuation of Origin.

[box]

In other news... Brett Ratner (Rush hour 1 and 2) is named the new X-men 3 director.

In addition to Kelsey Grammer being cast as Beast, Maggie Grace from the show "Lost" will join the crew as Kitty Pryde.

[xcalibr]

the Kuberts at DC?
DC has some talent, and great characters, I really think things are shaping up over there.....

the stories are getting better and better.....it truly is a good time to be a DC fan....

Yah I thought I was the only one who felt like DC was really starting to come together as a cohesive universe. They have gone to great lengths to develop their iconic characters and imo they have some very interesting and hopefully entertaining stories on the horizon. They also have some great talent so I think DC is going to be great over the next while.



And I'm totally buying into DC: Infinite Crisis. So far I'm getting OMAC Project, Rann/Thanagar War, Villians United, and the JLA tie-in. I actually give a shit about what DC is doing, as opposed to Marvel, which I don't really care about as much.

Thas pretty much exactly how Im feeling right now. But I wouldnt count out Marvel either. I read a lot of Marvel stuff too and even though Im not feelin them right now as much as I am DC I still think they have a few cool things goin. House of M was surprisingly interesting and it looks like it might pan out to be a creation of good Bendis and not crappy, cannon changin Bendis…

[box]

Picked up JLA, Marvel knights spidey and the pulse yesterday.

JLA was good. Geoff Johns and Allan heinberg. Can't wait to see what Batman does to the league when they tell him about the memory wipe.

[Rogue328]

Thas pretty much exactly how Im feeling right now. But I wouldnt count out Marvel either. I read a lot of Marvel stuff too and even though Im not feelin them right now as much as I am DC I still think they have a few cool things goin. House of M was surprisingly interesting and it looks like it might pan out to be a creation of good Bendis and not crappy, cannon changin Bendis…

The thing is, i never picked up a DC book until a little over two years ago. And I feel like I missed out on so much good stuff, it hurts me. So many great characters, so many great stories.

Marvel's got some good stuff going on, but they also have a lot of garbage going on as well. Whereas DC has gone to great lengths to have story arcs tie into Infinite Crisis, Marvel usually lets the stories run their own course, and not tie in at all. Remember Avengers Disassembled. None of the one's I picked up tied into the actual Avengers Chaos story arc at all.

I still think House of M is Bendis' way of justifying his destruction of the Avengers. First he tears them apart, then he rebuilds the team with characters that just don't belong together, and now he needs them to face their first big challenge.



Superman/Batman #20 was god damn weak. At least we get McGuinness back for a few issues.

Anyone else pick up Image's Strange Girl? Good setup so far about a girl condemned to hell after God comes and takes all the worthy souls up to Heaven. Looking forward to the next issue.

[Wellman]

Spectacular Spiderman did end at #27. But Peter David is doing a new Spiderman book this fall.

I just picked up Batgirl #64 and I have to say, I have been missing out. Cassandra 'Nu Batgirl' Cain(?) seems more like the 'true' Batman heir than any other Robin.

Also the Cable/Deadpool 'Burnt Offering' TPB was a great purchase, especially with the tiny conversation that lead to poking fun at Avengers Disassembled. I have to start picking both series up, once I get more cash.

[xcalibr]

Remember Avengers Disassembled. None of the one's I picked up tied into the actual Avengers Chaos story arc at all.


Thas exactly what burned me so bad about Disassembled. None of the stories tied into each other at all and by the end I just felt like all I accomplished was wasting a huge amount of cash. All you really needed to read was Avengers itself, everything else jus got a Disassembled label tacked onto it and for the most part (except Thor) they were all total garbage. I’m glad I’m not the only one who felt cheated by those cheap tie in titles.

On the other hand War Games was imo a great story and even though it spanned so many different books and issues I didn’t feel like I got cheated because the story was done so well. All the writers collaborated on the story and by the end I was very satisfied. The way DC handled War Games was the way Marvel SHOULD have handled Disassembled. Once again another factor that makes me feel like DC is a much more unified continuity as of right now. Also all their top guns regularly meet and discuss where their respective stories are going and how they want things to play out on a universe wide level. I think they’ve got a good approach at handling their stories and characters.

[Zephyranthes]

I don't like DC's superhero comics right now. I, for one, liked Avengers Disassembled (and while we're on the subject of Marvel, I liked Origin, too). In fact, I will boldly claim that I liked Disassembled much more than Identity Crisis and all of this Countdown to Infinite Crisis business.

Right now, a big draw for DC books seems to be the fact that they are all somehow "tied together." I really hate that. There's nothing more jarring then to read a comic I used to like a lot, like Flash, and then be reminded that I need to be reading other DC comics in order to "get" the full significance of the "overall" story. It's just a huge marketing scheme hiding under the guise of a massive crossover. Most crossovers will be honest about their "event" status, but DC's really pushing it right now.

For example, I cite the most recent issues of Flash. The "Rogues War" story sounds like a great premise, but the introduction of all these other aspects of the "overall" DCU are annoying because they remind me that I'm missing out unless I buy more DC books. The whole thing with the Top and his mind-wiping thing might have been tolerable. But randomly throwing in a Checkmate agent into the story during the Captain Boomerang scene seriously adds nothing to the experience. At best, it's a deus ex machina to lead into the next plot point. At worst, it's a poorly executed and very distracting marketing ploy.

What I liked about Marvel's crossovers like Avengers Disassembled is the fact that the entire story pretty much stays in one title. Marvel just slapped on the Disassembled logo on a few random books in hopes to boost sales (although I'll admit that most of those stories weren't that good, but it wasn't because they were tie-ins. It was because they just weren't well-written.).

I mean, check out DC's recent Adam Strange miniseries. That story started out awesome! I loved the first few issues! Amazing artwork and solid writing from the writer of The Losers. But, man, those last few issues were so weak. The last few issues of Adam Strange seriously read like a few plot elements were tacked on just to tie in with the Rann/Thanagar War. It was as though Andy Diggle had finished his outlines for the entire series and at the last minute, an editor said, "Oh, by the way, try to leave this [unfurls premise of Rann/Thanagar War] as the new status quo at the end of the story." I felt so robbed reading Adam Strange. What could have been an sharp and fresh take on superhero crossed over with pulp detective fiction and hokey but fun science fiction story essentially ended up being an eight issue PROLOGUE to a six issue COUNTDOWN to DC's NEXT big miniseries! THAT, my friends, is why I consider DC's current direction utter tripe.

I didn't even like DC's $1 Countdown to Infinite Crisis very much. To be honest, that comic rests right next to my toilet so that I have pretty pictures to look at while I go poo. That's how little respect I have for that story.

Marvel is more about making allusions to other books. They don't seem to care about forcing every event to connect, and I appreciate the fact that I can read an issue of Astonishing X-Men without knowing anything that happened in the latest issue of New Avengers (or even Uncanny X-Men, for that matter). Big events are alluded to but they aren't introduced randomly into books in an overbearing manner. When they are introduced, they are usually introduced in a way to help the reader catch the deeper implications, unlike with DC's "wink, wink, you gotta catch 'em all to understand the whole story" approach.

Of course, this all comes from a guy who is pretty burned out on normal superhero comics in general, so I'm probably just being cynical. Superhero comics have to be special to gain my respect nowadays and having tie-ins all over the place to promote the image of a cohesive universe just don't do it for me. Maybe if DC released every issue related to this IDC/Countdown to Crisis stuff in a single, chronologically-minded volume complete with footnotes, I might enjoy their stories a little more.

[box]

I enjoyed House of M #1 as well. A couple little things though bugged me. The X-men wanna put down the Scarlet Witch because she's too powerful and uncontrollable. The Avengers say no and it's not the X-men's call and since Scarlet witch is/was an Avenger, the decision is up to them. Now, if memory serves me correctly... weren't the X-men in the exact same situation a few years back. Anyone remember the Dark Phoenix Saga? The Shiar wanting to put down the Dark Phoenix because she's too powerful and uncontrollable. The X-men saying no. Funny how the X-men completely forgot what it's like to be on the other side.

I really like what DC is doing to hype up Infinite crisis. DC is updating their website weekly, summarizing what went down in the week that was infinite crisis related in the "crisis counselling" section. It's a good idea since I'm not reading all of the stuff that's out there (4 countdown mini-series, a prelude to infinite crisis, the return of donna troy special, and the JLA lead-in story along with several of the monthlys). I'm only reading the JLA lead-in story, and will probably get the prelude. What the heck is infinite crisis gonna be about??

[Adam Warlock]

I enjoyed House of M #1 as well. A couple little things though bugged me. The X-men wanna put down the Scarlet Witch because she's too powerful and uncontrollable. The Avengers say no and it's not the X-men's call and since Scarlet witch is/was an Avenger, the decision is up to them. Now, if memory serves me correctly... weren't the X-men in the exact same situation a few years back. Anyone remember the Dark Phoenix Saga? The Shiar wanting to put down the Dark Phoenix because she's too powerful and uncontrollable. The X-men saying no. Funny how the X-men completely forgot what it's like to be on the other side.


What's funny is, technically the Avengers have NO say. Wanda is a mutant and a criminal. She falls under the jurisdiction of the XSE. If Storm wanted to, she could tell the Avengers to fuck themselves.

[box]

What's funny is, technically the Avengers have NO say. Wanda is a mutant and a criminal. She falls under the jurisdiction of the XSE. If Storm wanted to, she could tell the Avengers to fuck themselves.

I don't think Storm was in the initial meeting between the Avengers and the X-men in House of M. They only included the astonishing version. And they left out Spider-Woman for some odd reason. What's the XSE? Wanda is definitely a mutant, but criminal? I'm not sure we can call her that. Insane? Most definitely.

[Adam Warlock]

I don't think Storm was in the initial meeting between the Avengers and the X-men in House of M. They only included the astonishing version. And they left out Spider-Woman for some odd reason. What's the XSE? Wanda is definitely a mutant, but criminal? I'm not sure we can call her that. Insane? Most definitely.

The XSE is the Xtreme Sanctions Executive. Basically, they're mutant police with badges and all. They have jurisdiction given to them by (shield I think?). When mutants are fucking up, they can run in and handle business and apprehend mutant suspects. It's the precursor to the organization Bishop is a part of in the future.

And XSE doesn't care if she did it intentionally or not. They deal with mutants whose powers fuck shit up. Wolverine fucking stabbed a mutant kid who was about to use his power (not purposely IIRC, but because he couldn't control it) to blow shit up, and KILLED him.

[Rogue328]

I don't like DC's superhero comics right now. I, for one, liked Avengers Disassembled (and while we're on the subject of Marvel, I liked Origin, too). In fact, I will boldly claim that I liked Disassembled much more than Identity Crisis and all of this Countdown to Infinite Crisis business.

Right now, a big draw for DC books seems to be the fact that they are all somehow "tied together." I really hate that. There's nothing more jarring then to read a comic I used to like a lot, like Flash, and then be reminded that I need to be reading other DC comics in order to "get" the full significance of the "overall" story. It's just a huge marketing scheme hiding under the guise of a massive crossover. Most crossovers will be honest about their "event" status, but DC's really pushing it right now.

For example, I cite the most recent issues of Flash. The "Rogues War" story sounds like a great premise, but the introduction of all these other aspects of the "overall" DCU are annoying because they remind me that I'm missing out unless I buy more DC books. The whole thing with the Top and his mind-wiping thing might have been tolerable. But randomly throwing in a Checkmate agent into the story during the Captain Boomerang scene seriously adds nothing to the experience. At best, it's a deus ex machina to lead into the next plot point. At worst, it's a poorly executed and very distracting marketing ploy.

What I liked about Marvel's crossovers like Avengers Disassembled is the fact that the entire story pretty much stays in one title. Marvel just slapped on the Disassembled logo on a few random books in hopes to boost sales (although I'll admit that most of those stories weren't that good, but it wasn't because they were tie-ins. It was because they just weren't well-written.).

I mean, check out DC's recent Adam Strange miniseries. That story started out awesome! I loved the first few issues! Amazing artwork and solid writing from the writer of The Losers. But, man, those last few issues were so weak. The last few issues of Adam Strange seriously read like a few plot elements were tacked on just to tie in with the Rann/Thanagar War. It was as though Andy Diggle had finished his outlines for the entire series and at the last minute, an editor said, "Oh, by the way, try to leave this [unfurls premise of Rann/Thanagar War] as the new status quo at the end of the story." I felt so robbed reading Adam Strange. What could have been an sharp and fresh take on superhero crossed over with pulp detective fiction and hokey but fun science fiction story essentially ended up being an eight issue PROLOGUE to a six issue COUNTDOWN to DC's NEXT big miniseries! THAT, my friends, is why I consider DC's current direction utter tripe.

I didn't even like DC's $1 Countdown to Infinite Crisis very much. To be honest, that comic rests right next to my toilet so that I have pretty pictures to look at while I go poo. That's how little respect I have for that story.

Marvel is more about making allusions to other books. They don't seem to care about forcing every event to connect, and I appreciate the fact that I can read an issue of Astonishing X-Men without knowing anything that happened in the latest issue of New Avengers (or even Uncanny X-Men, for that matter). Big events are alluded to but they aren't introduced randomly into books in an overbearing manner. When they are introduced, they are usually introduced in a way to help the reader catch the deeper implications, unlike with DC's "wink, wink, you gotta catch 'em all to understand the whole story" approach.

Of course, this all comes from a guy who is pretty burned out on normal superhero comics in general, so I'm probably just being cynical. Superhero comics have to be special to gain my respect nowadays and having tie-ins all over the place to promote the image of a cohesive universe just don't do it for me. Maybe if DC released every issue related to this IDC/Countdown to Crisis stuff in a single, chronologically-minded volume complete with footnotes, I might enjoy their stories a little more.


To answer the first part, Heaven forbid a commercial company try to make some money by having their series tie together. DC isn't just putting out comics for the sake of publishing them, they make comics because they're trying to turn a profit. So, it makes sense to have everything tie into each other. This motivates people to pick up the other series, which in turn increases sales and makes them a profit.

Disassembled flat out sucked. Chaos itself was a bag of shit. The only story worth reading was Thor, which I keep missing out on the trade for. And the best part was that Marvel made a major change with one of their icons (Spider-Man now hacving organic web shooters, just like the movie), and it went pretty much unnoticed. Disassembled wasn't marketed properly, and the overall reason to have the story was weak.

DC is running the comic side of their business much more efficiently than Marvel is. But the thing is, Marvel can rest on the laurels of the strength of their movies. Marvel's movies are bringing in billions of dollars. DC doesn't have the luxury, so their comics mean a lot to them. And with all the talent they have lined up, DC is poised to make some serious noise in the coming years.

[Preppy]

^-- I don't know about "Disassembled" flat out sucking. GLA Disassembled is pretty funny, I think. =)

And actually, you have it the other way around as regards DC & Marvel - Marvel is a comic company, DC is owned by TimeAOLWarner, so they've got huge resources Marvel doesn't have. This has been covered in numerous places in interviews with Joe Q and so on where they cover the relative financial problems of the two companies. =\

[box]

Anyone else remember when Marvel filed for Chapter 11??

This was before the Spider-Man movie broke the 3-day opening weekend record.

The problem with DC being owned by TimeAOLWarner is that all their movies have to be made by Warner Brothers. Marvel on the other hand can lease their characters to different production companies which means less time between movies. It does however pose a problem in that if Marvel ever wanted to do a crossover between some of it's characters. DC on the other hand wouldn't have that problem. Not that crossovers would ever happen though... =(

[Zephyranthes]

To answer the first part, Heaven forbid a commercial company try to make some money by having their series tie together. DC isn't just putting out comics for the sake of publishing them, they make comics because they're trying to turn a profit. So, it makes sense to have everything tie into each other. This motivates people to pick up the other series, which in turn increases sales and makes them a profit.

Disassembled flat out sucked. Chaos itself was a bag of shit. The only story worth reading was Thor, which I keep missing out on the trade for. And the best part was that Marvel made a major change with one of their icons (Spider-Man now hacving organic web shooters, just like the movie), and it went pretty much unnoticed. Disassembled wasn't marketed properly, and the overall reason to have the story was weak.

DC is running the comic side of their business much more efficiently than Marvel is. But the thing is, Marvel can rest on the laurels of the strength of their movies. Marvel's movies are bringing in billions of dollars. DC doesn't have the luxury, so their comics mean a lot to them. And with all the talent they have lined up, DC is poised to make some serious noise in the coming years.


My whole point is that DC is being too "commercial." I understand that they are a company trying to turn the biggest profit they possibly can, so I'm not begrudging them the right to do whatever they feel necessary to do so as long as they don't hurt people. But my point is that doing the best business decision doesn't always make for good reading.

Tying Adam Strange in with The Rann/Thanagar War (which in turn ties in with Countdown to Infinite Crisis, which all eventually leads to Infinite Crisis) is definitely a smart business decision. But there's no denying that it was a crappy storytelling decision. All of the punch out of the eight issue miniseries was stolen for the sake of building up excitement.

Now, I'm not gonna bother trying to convince you to like Avengers Disassembled because I'm sure we can just go back and forth about how much you feel that sucked and how much I feel Identity Crisis sucked. I agree that Marvel didn't market that event as well, and most of those peripheral "tie-ins" had marginal relationships to the Avengers story at best. In fact I don't think that most of those Disassembled tie-ins were even good, but it wasn't because they tried to make connections to Chaos. It was simply because the stories were poorly executed. But the reason Marvel had Disassmebled is most likely the same reason DC is having their Crisis: to make money. Those Chaos issues were pretty well selling and New Avengers and Young Avengers are a couple of Marvel's top books now. It's just a personal preference, but I greatly enjoy Marvel's superheroes more than DC's at this moment.

I think my favorite thing about DC right now is that they should be raking in a good amount of cash so that hopefully they can keep their imprints alive. Vertigo, WildStorm, and ABC are all I care about at DC. Plus, with AOL/TimeWarner backing 'em up, they should never have to cancel another book again... Although come to think of it, they did end their publishing deal with Humanoid and 2000AD. Ah well, it's just business.

[P. Gorath]

your sig is too big

[Carpet Lint]

- Marvel only makes a tiny percentage of their profits from printing comics. All of their money comes from movies and the rights to their properties. And I it's all one big happy company, so it doesn't matter where the money comes in from. They could stop printing comics altogether and it wouldn't hurt their bottom line one little bit.

I don't think DC (or the comic printing branch of DC) gets a lot of money from their property rights, because I think those would go to AOL/Warner. So DC just has to focus on making comics.

Though in the end I don't think it really matters in regards to how good their comics are.

- I'm with Zephy - I hate these huge crossover events. It's only to mooch readers off the more popular books (ie. Batman) and onto the ones that need sales boosts (ie. Gotham Knights?). Which isn't something I have a problem with, but when I'm buying just Batman, shouldn't I be able to follow the story in Batman? Why do I have to go out and buy two dozen other titles I have no interest in just to follow the story in the books I did buy? There can be incentive to buy the other books, but I don't think you should penalize me for not buying them.

I just hate the half assed way they do it - there's no effort made to tie it in with the crossover, and even if they do, it comes off as awkward storytelling. Crossovers just aren't fun. They should stick those type of stories to mini-series if they're looking to just tell bigger and better stories (which they aren't).

So I'm with ya Zephy. 'cept this...
(and while we're on the subject of Marvel, I liked Origin, too).
IMPOSTER!!!

...I remember the colours were really nice. That's about it though.

- DC's not doing a great job with the Batman mind-wipe continuity this time around.

In Identity Crisis it's implied that he's already figured it out, but doesn't want to deal with it.

In OMAC, it's revealed that he did figure it out, and whines about it to the JLA. But why bring it up now? He's known for years. Bad writing from Rucka - I didn't really enjoy the art that much either. Not that interested in picking up the rest.

And now in JLA, the old school members are preparing to tell him about it...but...doesn't he already know?

Bad editoral coordination, which is another reason I don't like crossovers. Some plot holes get distracting.

I'd also prefer them to first establish who the Sentry is first before throwing him in House of M and just having him stand and fly around without saying anything and hoping the reader doesn't notice him. I mean, doesn't Bendis write both books and practically controls Marvel? How hard can it seriously be to coordinate that one thing?

- I was at the shop the other day, and I saw an issue of X-Men: The End on the self. LOL, is this series still going on? It's been going on for like five years!

- Superman/Batman...I was hoping Jeph Loeb could pull it together, but he just flat out sucks now. I fully support Gamma Charge and his crusade against Jeph Loeb. The man who wrote Ahnuld's Commando - the man I love, Joseph Loeb the third - is now dead. I always love seeing Ed McGunniess' art though. But after reading Morrison's JLA: Classified arc (also with McGunniess) - it just makes this Superman/Batman issue look like crap. As batshit insane as that Classified arc was.

- Oh and you know the cover for Superman/Batman #20(?), with them surrounded by all the weapons of the various Avengers knock-offs? Who's hands are those in the middle center, with the blue energy? Is it supposed to be some clever forshadowing of the baddie behind it all, or is it a screw-up?

- Still going to be picking up Loeb's Batman project with Art Adams though. That's still on right?

- What's this Jim Lee/Frank Miller on All-Stars Batman insanity? When's that coming out? This month? How was this able to sneak up on me like this?

[Nemesis00]

On the Sentry thing, New Avengers is very late. It should be on issue 7 or 8 now.

[box]

- DC's not doing a great job with the Batman mind-wipe continuity this time around.

In Identity Crisis it's implied that he's already figured it out, but doesn't want to deal with it.

In OMAC, it's revealed that he did figure it out, and whines about it to the JLA. But why bring it up now? He's known for years. Bad writing from Rucka - I didn't really enjoy the art that much either. Not that interested in picking up the rest.

And now in JLA, the old school members are preparing to tell him about it...but...doesn't he already know?

Bad editoral coordination, which is another reason I don't like crossovers. Some plot holes get distracting.


I think they screwed up the timing for some of their stories. In the most recent JLA, it was said that Batman figured out about the mindwipe ever since the Teen Titans fought Dr. Light (post Identity crisis) a couple issues ago. However he hasn't confronted any of the JLA about it yet. He did construct the Brother Eye satellite to watch his back so that sort of thing would never happen again, but it fell under the control of Maxwell Lord in the OMAC project. It's really tough to figure out which story is happening in which chronological order. I'm not sure if JLA happened before OMAC or after.


I'd also prefer them to first establish who the Sentry is first before throwing him in House of M and just having him stand and fly around without saying anything and hoping the reader doesn't notice him. I mean, doesn't Bendis write both books and practically controls Marvel? How hard can it seriously be to coordinate that one thing?

Agreed. The problem is that Bendis writes all his stories 6 months ahead of time and the artists as well as other writers have a very hard time keeping up. Sentry doesn't join the avengers until the next arc (#7-9) and Avengers #6 hasn't even come out yet. House of M alluded to a falling out between Prof X and the astonishing X-men which should happen in the next 2 issues of Astonishing. Secret War happened before Avengers #1 and it's still going on.

[RoninChaos]

I don't think Storm was in the initial meeting between the Avengers and the X-men in House of M. They only included the astonishing version. And they left out Spider-Woman for some odd reason. What's the XSE? Wanda is definitely a mutant, but criminal? I'm not sure we can call her that. Insane? Most definitely.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but she was responsible for the deaths of Hawkeye, partially responsible for the death of Vision, and that other cat that died in the blast during Avengers disassembled.

That would make her a murderer, hence her being considered a criminal.

[Nemesis00]

Oh man, you have to track down Goon. It's a fucking blast.

[box]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but she was responsible for the deaths of Hawkeye, partially responsible for the death of Vision, and that other cat that died in the blast during Avengers disassembled.

That would make her a murderer, hence her being considered a criminal.

If we go by that definition, then the Wolverine is a murderer and a criminal. Heck, the entire cast are criminals then. It isn't that black and white though.

Dark phoenix destroyed an entire star system. Criminal?? or Uncontrollable force of nature??

The issue with both the scarlet witch and the Dark phoenix is whether or not they should allow them to live and try to find a way to help them control their powers, or destroy them and not risk losing the entire planet/star system.

At the end of the avengers disassembled arc, Cap A handed scarlet witch to MAgneto. If they figured her for a criminal like Doctor Octopus then why did they let her go?

[Zephyranthes]

Saying that Cap and the rest of the gathered Avengers just hand Scarlet Witch over to Magneto at the end of "Chaos" is kind of simplifying things. I don't think they allowed Magneto to take her because they didn't think she should have been arrested by the authorities. The situation seemed more like, the Avengers were beated down and shocked at what had happened, and when Magneto arrived on the scene (after it was largely believed he had died at the end of "Planet X" in New X-Men), they were too subdued to react. So I don't think they let her go just because they thought she was innocent of malice.

If there's any justice in the world, House Of M will reveal that the Magneto who's been lurking in Claremont's Excalibur and who took Wanda at the end of "Chaos" is merely a figment of Wanda's Hex Power, thus solidifying Morrison's Magneto as the TRUE Magneto, not some lameass "IMPOSTER." Unfortunately, I'm expecting the reverse to be true- that Xorn/Magneto was a result of Scarlet Witch's uncontrollable Chaos powers. If that's the case, that's adding lameness upon lameness. It'd be like Bendis trying to bail Claremont's ass out:

"Hey, I didn't like Morrison's story, so I'm bringing Magneto back."

"What? No one is gonna accept that one panel, offhand, single line of dialogue as an explanation!"

"I don't care, I'm Claremont, only I know how to write Magneto!"

"Fine, fine, I got your back, sir."

Oh, well. I'll still refuse to accept that Magneto is alive in the Marvel Universe. Whoever's running around right now is the true IMPOSTER.

[box]

I don't know if they handed her just cause they were too subdued to react. I think it was more like, they thought that perhaps Magneto would have the resources to save Wanda.

Anyhow I think the main point of this conversation was that, yes she did kill some of the Avengers, but putting her on the same group as Bullseye and labelling her simply as a "bad guy" is way off the mark. It isn't that clear-cut.

[Adam Warlock]

I don't know if they handed her just cause they were too subdued to react. I think it was more like, they thought that perhaps Magneto would have the resources to save Wanda.
They handed her over because they had no choice. They were tired and Magz showed up amped the fuck out. He went all Khadafi on them. They couldn't win that fight if they started it.

Anyhow I think the main point of this conversation was that, yes she did kill some of the Avengers, but putting her on the same group as Bullseye and labelling her simply as a "bad guy" is way off the mark. It isn't that clear-cut.

No one's saying it is, but it's the X.S.E.'s job to deal with her because she falls under their jurisdiction; not the Avengers.

[Nemesis00]

I'll look for the link later, but someone from Marvel said that House of M will infact clear up the whole Xorneto thing, and most likely Xorneto will be a figment of Wanda's mind. The Magneto in House of M now is suppose to be the real one.

And the guy that weakened Juggernaut needs to die.

Edit: http://www.newsarama.com/wwphilly05/Marvel/HouseofM/WWPhilHoM.htm

And what was the deal with Morrison's run? Why is it so conflicted?

[box]

They handed her over because they had no choice. They were tired and Magz showed up amped the fuck out. He went all Khadafi on them. They couldn't win that fight if they started it.

Captain America is one that never gives up, no matter how stacked the odds are against him. In Infinity Gauntlet #4 Cap A went up against Thanos WITH the Infinity Gauntlet. Thanos is infinite times more powerful then Magneto. He was omnipotent. Captain America was the last one standing against him and he still kept on punching no matter how hopeless the situation is. He fights for what he believes in till the last moment. He didn't fight Magneto because him and Magneto were on the same page. They want to save Wanda.


No one's saying it is, but it's the X.S.E.'s job to deal with her because she falls under their jurisdiction; not the Avengers.

I did some reading on the XSE and found out that they have the backing of the United Nations. The UN turned their back on The Avengers in Avengers disassembled. One of the New Avengers' policies is no government, no politics. The XSE may have the government's support in taking care of Wanda, but the Avengers don't give a crap.

[Wellman]

I did some reading on the XSE and found out that they have the backing of the United Nations. The UN turned their back on The Avengers in Avengers disassembled. One of the New Avengers' policies is no government, no politics. The XSE may have the government's support in taking care of Wanda, but the Avengers don't give a crap.

Yeah but technically outside of the Sentry, I am pretty sure all of the X-men could kick the New Avengers' asses. While I get that just the Astonishing team was there, frankly I felt like more of the X-men should have been there, along with more old school Avengers.

Either way, I passed on this issue because I plan on waiting for things to pick up a little. Maybe one of the Tie ins like Spiderman or Iron Man, also Bendis has seemed really burned out in his plots.

[box]

Yeah but technically outside of the Sentry, I am pretty sure all of the X-men could kick the New Avengers' asses. While I get that just the Astonishing team was there, frankly I felt like more of the X-men should have been there, along with more old school Avengers.

Astonishing x-men vs new avengers would be a pretty cool fight (wolverine being on astonishing). Shadowcat would be all over Ironman though and he'll have to constantly reroute his circuitry in order to compensate. Cage vs Emma Frost's diamond form would be cool. Wolverine rematch against Spider-Woman. Spider-Man against Beast in a battle of agility. Cap A vs Cyke in a leaders battle. Colossus vs Sentry in a battle of the strongmen. Highly unlikely that this would happen, but it'd be nice to see.

[Rogue328]

-snip-
Nah, I get were you're coming from.

And we sure as shit could argue over Avengers: Disassembled for hours.

One reason that Adam Strange was tied into the Rann/Thanagar war is because wants to revive the cosmic aspect of their universe. It's kind of weird though, because DC is now suffering from some of the problems that Marvel had. In Hawkman's ongoing, we're being lead to believe that either Carter or Kendra are going to die, but in Rann/Thanagar they're fighting with Adam Strange. I hope this mess gets cleared up.

Also, I hope nothing happens to Vertigo. I'm not currently buying any Vertigo titles, but without Vertigo we wouldn't have the Sandman, Preacher, My Faith in Frankie, Hellblazer, Human Target, and tons of awesome mini-series and one-shots.

[Wellman]

Well Newsarama.com has revieled an estimate on how much it might cost to keep up with both Marvel's and DC's crossover extravaganzas.

COUNTING THE COSTS...HOUSE OF M AND COUNTDOWN TO INFINITE CRISIS (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=35818)

It is actually a shocker that Crisis is as cheap as it is.

[DeadlyRaveNeo]

Also, I hope nothing happens to Vertigo. I'm not currently buying any Vertigo titles, but without Vertigo we wouldn't have the Sandman, Preacher, My Faith in Frankie, Hellblazer, Human Target, and tons of awesome mini-series and one-shots.


I wouldn't worry about Vertigo(yet), but I'm really worried about Wildstorm. I dunno wtf is DC doing with this line, they pretty much cancelled every series that occurs on the Wildstorm Universe (WildCATs, etc). I think Majestic is the only one that's still going, Authority is ending after Revolution, WildC.A.Ts is coming back for a 9 issue mini-series but its written by Robbie Morrison (authority v2, ho-hum) plus 3 pencillers I haven't heard of before. If they want more sales why don't they attach big names to these new projects? Where the fuck is Jim Lee? c'mon Mr. Lee don't let them do this do Wildstorm !!!!!

[Rogue328]

I wouldn't worry about Vertigo(yet), but I'm really worried about Wildstorm. I dunno wtf is DC doing with this line, they pretty much cancelled every series that occurs on the Wildstorm Universe (WildCATs, etc). I think Majestic is the only one that's still going, Authority is ending after Revolution, WildC.A.Ts is coming back for a 9 issue mini-series but its written by Robbie Morrison (authority v2, ho-hum) plus 3 pencillers I haven't heard of before. If they want more sales why don't they attach big names to these new projects? Where the fuck is Jim Lee? c'mon Mr. Lee don't let them do this do Wildstorm !!!!!
It's funny, I was talking to someone who works at the comic shop, and we agreed on the same thing. Although I don't read Wildstorm, I still knew people who faithfully stuck by the stories, and they were pissed with WildC.A.T.s was canceled. There hasn't been a Robotech mini in quite a while. Majestic seems to be the only series going, but that's mainly because a lot of Superman fans have bought into the series.


-- Spoiler --


It's official, Carter Hall is now dead. My favorite hero, gone. Hawkgirl and Golden Eagle will be holding down the series for now, and with the revelation at the end of #41 that Golden Eagle is actually Carter's son (not to mention his other son is Doctor Fate), I guess DC wanted to shift the series' direction with a younger hero.


Currently buying the Transmetropolitan trades. Spider Jerusalem is probably the best anti hero I've seen.

[P. Gorath]

And what was the deal with Morrison's run? Why is it so conflicted?
Because he did something new, different, original and thought-provoking ie something marvel cant allow to stand

[ViciousSLASH]

Because he did something new, different, original and thought-provoking ie something marvel cant allow to stand

I think it's all because of how crappy Quietly's art was. The X Men have been totally shitty though for awhile, they don't even do anything, they are the angsty bitches of comics.

At leasy morrison shook stuff up. The secondary mutation thing was brilliant and should be expanded upon.

I know in the past I complained about his run, but that probably just because of the visual aspects. I hate Quietly.

Anyway, I don't even read comics anymore, they've gotten corny.

The only things I still pay attention to are The Flash and The Walking Dead.

[Rogue328]

I think it's all because of how crappy Quietly's art was. The X Men have been totally shitty though for awhile, they don't even do anything, they are the angsty bitches of comics.

At leasy morrison shook stuff up. The secondary mutation thing was brilliant and should be expanded upon.

I know in the past I complained about his run, but that probably just because of the visual aspects. I hate Quietly.

Anyway, I don't even read comics anymore, they've gotten corny.

The only things I still pay attention to are The Flash and The Walking Dead.
I kind of liked Quitely's art. It added a new look to character's that became kind of stagnant over the years. And he managed to make Wolverine even hairier.

As for Morrison's run, I read each trade back to back a few months ago, and thoroughly enjoyed it. Right now, I'm digging his Seven Soldiers series. And I'll be damned sure to pick up Morrison's and Quitely's All Star Superman run.

[Nemesis00]

Because he did something new, different, original and thought-provoking ie something marvel cant allow to stand
Sounds good. But what exactly did he do. All I know of his run is Xorneto.

BTW, GLA is one of the best minis on Marvel's roster. A very good dark comedy set after Disassembled.

[Adam Warlock]

The secondary mutation thing was brilliant and should be expanded upon.


It was dumb. It was random, and misplaced and just made no sense, and is a large part of the reason I dislike his run. "Oh shit! I don't know WHAT the fuck to do. Oh, I know, I'll make mutants mutate! Pure genius!"

[ViciousSLASH]

It was dumb. It was random, and misplaced and just made no sense, and is a large part of the reason I dislike his run. "Oh shit! I don't know WHAT the fuck to do. Oh, I know, I'll make mutants mutate! Pure genius!"

It kinda made a lot of sense and it was strange that no one had come up with it before.

He didn't do anything new storywise ( love triangles, mutant civil rights, magneto died again, angst-a-roonie ) and the new stuff he did was a lil weird ( the new super freak mutants, that nerd kid who was super duper powerful out of nowhere ) but I liked the whole aspect of the mutants continuing to evolve.

I guess thats all I really liked about that run, the mutant evolving aspect. Other then that, the art was goofy and nothing really happened.

[Nemesis00]

Hey, we got a kickass looking Beast out of it, so I ain't complaining thus far.

[Wellman]

I think the main problem Marvel higher ups have with Morrison's run was it took the series to such different and unmarketable tangents that they knew you couldn't market it like you could Classic X-men. Or it could be once he was done with X-men he immediately went back to do big projects with DC like Seven Soliders and the upcoming All-Star Superman.

I wonder if that is why Geoff Johns' Avengers was basically shitted on by the writers following his all to short run. Still doesn't explain why Marvel seems to want to wipe Priest's great run on Black Panther from continuity just to replace it with a lesser version that takes a lot of the great ideas he introduced.