Deciding on a SRK standard for DB15

[ArcadeStickMonk]

How many of us are using projects boxes with external encoders now? Quite a few I've gathered, and I believe that the numbers are just going to go up.

For any that don't know what this issue is about, external encoders are the same PCBs from your Dual Shock or S-Type that we've been using, but shoved in a plastic box and wired to a serial port. You then wire an arcade stick to a serail port, with the mirrioed pinout of course, and now that unit functioins with the console supported by the PCB in the box. Make three different sticks and three project boxes for three different consoles and you have nine different combinations. It is true universatility <- made up word

Being that we design for and sell to each other, I submit that it would be prudent to decide on a standard pinout for the D-sub connectors that most, if not all, of us have been using to hook out PCBs up to our hardware.

This way, you could buy a custom unit for one SRKer, and an encoder box from another, and know that they would be compatible. We can set the standard.


Firstly we need to agree on a D-sub size. Personally I am sold on two row DB15, but it is one pin short to do everything we want and handle a 5v for optical joysticks. A move to a DB20 or 25 might be prudent.

Next is the pinout itself, which is a mere formality if we choose a D-sub size large enough. I understand that several are using a Neo Geo pinout (somebody post it) because you can connect directly to a Neo Geo or supergun with no encoder. Personally I have always viewed the Neo pinout as chaotic, and nearly any pinout can be adapted to this standard with a small project box.


So I want to hear everyone's opinions on this. Let's get Shin Ace and Toodles in here; maybe Arm will come back. Let's have experienced perspectives as well as novice. We need to understand our collective needs before we can address them with a standard.



I'll kick it off with my preferences.

One thing I prefer that will differ from the majority is that I only want six gameplay buttons - ever. I cannot stand units with eight buttons on the face, so I'd like to cut buttons 7-8 out entirely.

With those buttons removed, I'd take a two row DB15 and run my four directions, six gameplay buttons, start button, select\back button, two grounds, and a 5v.

Arbitrarily layed out it would go something like this.

1. Down
2. Right
3. Up
4. Left
5. Ground
6. 5v
7. Start
8. Select
9. Button 1
10. Button 2
11. Button 3
12. Button 4
13. Button 5
14. Button 6
15. Ground

The order is off the cuff, but I really like this content. It allows me to have a 5v at the ready whenever I need it (I only have one P360 and Flash each, so I'll rig my voltage stepping circuits to the unit containing the optical stick) and it also allows me to keep a seperate ground for both joystick and button rows, if for no other reason than internal neatness.

I'll admit that this DB15 has a flaw in that DB15 cables that actually have all 15 pins instead of 14 are might be rare. (does thisa only apply to 3 row VGA DB15?) However, I plant to mount the encoder box right on the stick, no cable for me. Plus I could place the second ground on what would be the dropped pin, since it is the least important, and plan the cable needing unit for one ground only.

Of course, even if we do decide on a standard here, there's nothing preventing anyone from doing something different for a personal project. I believe that I will keep the above example as my personal standard for a while, for example. However, if I agreed to do work for someone, and they requested SRK DB standard to function with their existing hardware, I'd know what they were asking for and honor that.

Get to posting.

[FMJaguar]

I'll admit that this DB15 has a flaw in that DB15 cables that actually have all 15 pins instead of 14 are might be rare. (does thisa only apply to 3 row VGA DB15?)

That is correct, the 8/7 DB15 doesn't have that problem.

[dummyface]

I say stick with the standard neo pinout & add in the extra stuff.

[cakes]

I like your proposition and it would be a great thing to expand upon. A standard everyone can agree one so that we can either build or acquire a project box that will allow you to use any other console and then be able to use any other stick is actually a very, very smart idea. This would greatly remove the problem that currently exists with converters and the possibility of lag, like is often found in the Xbox. It also fairly streamlines the process of stick building for a lot of people, since there's no more need to gut a PCB -- just wire the stick ready for a project box and you're set.

[TheRealNeoGeo]

Using DB15 I can not use 8 buttons?

[yoooooon]

no you cannot use 8 buttons.

we should use the standard for the MAS Supergun - made for street fighter. I don't know the exact pinout, someone with a supergun should know.

[ArcadeStickMonk]

I say stick with the standard neo pinout & add in the extra stuff.Refresh me, the NG pinout is set to what DB size? I'm gathering larger than 15?

Using DB15 I can not use 8 buttons?Well you can, because it's not like you need a 5v and an extra ground in every application. It's just that I loathe eight button setups, so in a DB15 situation, I'll gladly drop 7-8 and gain an extra ground and 5v for comfort.

[WaQs]

Using DB15 I can not use 8 buttons?

To go eight buttons, we would have to go to a DB20 or DB25 connector not only is that ugly, but I'll have 5 to ten pins I won't use and likely never use. If the shoryuken standard did go this way I would give it a miss.

Are the majority of you fella's using 3 row DB15's?? all of mine are 2 rows, for cables I use pc joystick extender cable there availble from most good pc stores male on end female on the other (all my sticks have male and boxes female) all 15 pins are connected on these cables.

That brings up another point we need to agree on a gender for the connectors, I vote for the stick to be male cos "beating your stick" is a manly task.

[gaijin]

Isn't this sort of a moot point?

I mean, all of us builders just sort of do whatever the Hell we feel like when it comes to designing, wiring, and everything in-between. And none of the prolific builders that actually sell sticks commonly even use anything but hacked pads located in the stick proper anyway.

I dunno. Doesn't seem practical to me, is all I'm saying. And yeah, that's without even taking into account that there are two different shaped 15-pin D-subs available (one with two rows and one with three rows).

[cakes]

I think it was made pretty clear that we'd be using the 2-row 15-pin connector.

[WaQs]

I think it was made pretty clear that we'd be using the 2-row 15-pin connector.

We don't have a standard yet so two row gets my vote.

[polarity]

Isn't this sort of a moot point?

I mean, all of us builders just sort of do whatever the Hell we feel like when it comes to designing, wiring, and everything in-between. And none of the prolific builders that actually sell sticks commonly even use anything but hacked pads located in the stick proper anyway.

I dunno. Doesn't seem practical to me, is all I'm saying. And yeah, that's without even taking into account that there are two different shaped 15-pin D-subs available (one with two rows and one with three rows).

It's the way of the future. If we want our sticks to be future-proof, and without input lag, guaranteed, this is the way to go. With the advent of consoles allowing for wireless input only, this is seeming like a better and better idea.

[FMJaguar]

It's the way of the future. If we want our sticks to be future-proof, and without input lag, guaranteed, this is the way to go. With the advent of consoles allowing for wireless input only, this is seeming like a better and better idea.

I agree, i was looking for someone to solder up some DB15s for me anyway, if there was a standard everyone could just keep the stick and get a lag free pad for whatever system without having to resolder the whole thing every year. BTW if anyone has any extra pads setup let me know.

[gaijin]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying I'd prefer to use adaptors. Almost every stick I have ever made, going back to last year when I stumbled upon this scene, have all used DB15 and project-box set-ups. I agree that it's a great way of doing things, allowing for the most flexibility overall.

I just don't see why the need for a standard in a hobby that is mostly all about personal customization. I mean, if someone needs a certain pin-layout, they could always just specify (providing they find someone willing to wire them one up), and it can be easily adapted. And for the rest of us who can do this ourselves, no worries anyway.

I don't know though. I mean, it would be nice if everyone did manage to jump on the bandwagon because then you could just make a project box with three hacked pads all wired together, a la the Shin Ace method, sharing that same pin-out and not even need multiple project boxes lying around. I was thinking about doing this myself. Have a USB, PS1, and DC project box with an area dremeled out for the VMU card, too. But then I got lazy and just made a smaller PS1 box for now since I already have adaptors from back in the day.

Ah, well. Anyway, I use the three row DB15 pin-outs, myself. I dunno.

[The Mullah]

i think its a great idea. but i rekon simple people like me will always rather just hack a pad and plug it directly into the console. i find the external boxes an eyesore!

but that isn't a veiled insult, i do think you should establish a standard because if you play multiple consoles, it seems the wya to go.

[Rei]

Myself and a couple of other arcade control builders already use a 'standard' set-up for interfacing that is built out of cat5. Of course, the cat5 standard isn't SF specific, as it allows for homebuilt DDR hardpads, and if you need more than 16 wires, you just add another cat5 cable. You can also wire up a connector for JAMMA and the Ipac keyboard hack in addition to your connector for console pcbs.

I think I already discussed it here:
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90305

Of course, that 'standard' takes into account the fact that not everyone uses arcade controls for 2d fighters, and we all know that SF players think the video game world revolves around them, and no other arcade games exist.

[yoooooon]

The standard that we use ( and i assume most many others) use the two row db 15. I believe it is standard with mas superguns, and was used at last years evo.
I'll try to find out what the pinout is.

[starboy]

The standard that we use ( and i assume most many others) use the two row db 15. I believe it is standard with mas superguns, and was used at last years evo.
I'll try to find out what the pinout is.

you have a supergun at your house.

[FMJaguar]

I just don't see why the need for a standard in a hobby that is mostly all about personal customization. I mean, if someone needs a certain pin-layout, they could always just specify (providing they find someone willing to wire them one up), and it can be easily adapted. And for the rest of us who can do this ourselves, no worries anyway.


Because that adds a ton of needless time and energy. I look at people's sticks and like their boxes, their art, their construction, but i never go 'damn I like the way you soldered everything together so I have to redo it 6 months from now'. A hobby is something done primarily for pleasure outside of your job, i can't remember the last time i gained pleasure rewiring a joystick for no reason other than short sighted planning.

I also challenge the idea of how easy it is to 'just' get someone to solder up some pads to a specific requirement. I posted a request in the trading forum for some pads wired to a DB-15 and got no response at all, luckily someone said they could do it but i still don't know when that's happening. Had I been asking for something that everyone was used to building already, this would have been solved in a day or even minutes.

We should just be able to say, ok pick whatever stick you want without worrying that it won't work later, and just get the adaptors for whatever console you want and bam, lag free 100% working joystick, and when the next gen systems come out, theres less of a issue about convertors and such, cause everyone just gets the new cable.

[TheRealNeoGeo]

Can somebody please post some pics of how you wire the db15, the "inside" of the stick I mean? Can somebody do that?

[Toodles]

There are pictures of the inside of Bone Daddy that show exactly that, but there isnt really a need. All switched has one leg that goes to ground, the other to the button/switch in question. No electronics in the stick, just wires from the switch to the correct pin on the db15
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/toodlesdc/my_photos

If you're using a two row db15, I cant think of any reason not to use a neogeo pinout. When I made mine, I used pin 2 for Fierce (Button 'E'), and 10 for Roundhouse (Button 'F'). In hindsight, I should have switched those two around, using 2 for F and 10 for E. If you picture the points as its laid out on the connector, it wonderfully simple:

GND
------(Not Used)
But.F
------But.E
But.Sel
------But.Sta
But.D
------But.C
But.B
------But.A
Dir.R
------Dir.L
Dir.D
------Dir.U
+5v

Everything Ive read on the neo-geo forums and SGRepository forums says to use pin 4, as pin 9 is only really used when dealing with mah-jong controllers. If you absolutely has to have 8 buttons, start, and select, you could wire one of the buttons to pin 9, and the other to the metal housing around the connectors. As long as you followed this convention with your encoder boxes, all would work well, and there wouldn't be any problem using a 15 pin midi extension cable to use this on authentic neogeo machines. I would recommend you be VERY careful using such a setup around a supergun unless you knew the pinout of the supergun for sure.

All of the pins you state you need in the first post are accounted for, so there really isnt a reason NOT to use the neo pinout as a basis. If you decided you didnt neet both a start and select button, or decided you didnt want the +5v, then you'd start to have a reason not to use neo.

[ArcadeStickMonk]

I think I already discussed it here:
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90305I'm sorry I missed that. I honestly don't know how I overlooked that thread.

The cat5 route is interesting, but the connectors themselves do not facilitate mounted project boxes in the same way the large D-sub does. Take a look at Toodles' Bone Daddy T5 mod and you can see a large project box securely mounted to the stick by nothing else but the D-sub itself. Then understand that what most of us want out of this business is the ability to swap system support in an instant, and it becomes clear that D-sub has the advantage.

-------------

The concern with 3 row DB-15 is getting cables that have all 15 pins. I have old SLI cables that have 15, but the serial cable I picked up at a store only had 14.

-------------

Toodles, I'm liking the Neo Geo layout pretty well right now. However, it does cut two buttons, which might be a sticking point for some.

You have a list of alterations that a builder could use to change functionality, but the inherent problem with this thinking is that every builder changes the pinout as they need it, then we haven't really created a standard at all.

For instance, we must have both start and select in the standard. The select button cannot be removed. You may have a stick that does not use it (and thus limits itself in a small way) but removing it froma PCB box should be unthinkable. A Dreamcast box doesn't need it, fine, but other sticks will need a select pin for use with PS2 and Xbox. So that channel should be ingnored when not needed, but never replaced.

The Neo Geo pin out has a one unused pin, is this correct? If so, that could be our wild card. I might put a second ground on it for use in a coupla my units, but if you used the same encoder box (w\ 2 grounds) you would not be affected in a negative way.

I would support a 6-button Neo Geo pinout standard.


I do recall there being some ambiguity about one of the pins regarding the actual Neo Geo. I understood one of the pins to commonly be doubled because no one could be sure which pin the signal would be read from. Id this where the wildcard comes from?

[gaijin]

Because that adds a ton of needless time and energy. I look at people's sticks and like their boxes, their art, their construction, but i never go 'damn I like the way you soldered everything together so I have to redo it 6 months from now'. A hobby is something done primarily for pleasure outside of your job, i can't remember the last time i gained pleasure rewiring a joystick for no reason other than short sighted planning.

Heh, yeah, you have a point. I had decided a while back only to use FQDs because I have had this problem myself in the past. At least that way I can swap a couple wires if need be. Though doing it often is definitely a pain in the ass and puts a lot of stress on the switches too.

I also challenge the idea of how easy it is to 'just' get someone to solder up some pads to a specific requirement. I posted a request in the trading forum for some pads wired to a DB-15 and got no response at all, luckily someone said they could do it but i still don't know when that's happening. Had I been asking for something that everyone was used to building already, this would have been solved in a day or even minutes.

We should just be able to say, ok pick whatever stick you want without worrying that it won't work later, and just get the adaptors for whatever console you want and bam, lag free 100% working joystick, and when the next gen systems come out, theres less of a issue about convertors and such, cause everyone just gets the new cable.

I get the point of the whole discussion and idea here, but I guess my main hang-up is the fact that I'm not sure that even having a standard will guarantee that everyone will use it. People are going to do whatever they want regardless, either out of ignorance or personal preference, and that will mean that this might end up no more helpful than the many stickied threads that so many people choose to ignore. Meaning it's only of any value to those who choose to bother. I admit I am being pessimistic. I'll stop.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with Toodles suggestion either, seeing how it's actually already an established standard. Well, apart from my preference in using 3-row D-subs. I don't quite understand why 2-rows are preferable though. I guess I'm a little slow. :(

[Rei]

I'm sorry I missed that. I honestly don't know how I overlooked that thread.

The cat5 route is interesting, but the connectors themselves do not facilitate mounted project boxes in the same way the large D-sub does. Take a look at Toodles' Bone Daddy T5 mod and you can see a large project box securely mounted to the stick by nothing else but the D-sub itself. Then understand that what most of us want out of this business is the ability to swap system support in an instant, and it becomes clear that D-sub has the advantage.


If you mount project boxes by hanging them and putting stress on the soldering, you either have very excellent skill with the soldering iron, or aren't interested in doing things the Right Way™.

It is clear that you are not interested in a 'standard' way of doing things, rather, you are interested in other people doing things the way you do it. You might as well have made your first post with, "This is the SRK standard for arcade sticks."

That is all well and good, because in my opinion, someone should do that, but your standard falls short when it comes to interfacing with anything other than consoles. But, then again, so what?

Anyone on SRK that is trying to interface with a JAMMA cabinet, NeoGeo boards, Superguns, etc will have already moved on to the arcadecontrols.com message boards and found better ways of dealing with these issues.

[gaijin]

Heh, I admit I'm guilty of lurking there an awful lot lately. And yeah, it is a nice change of perspective.

[ArcadeStickMonk]

If you mount project boxes by hanging them and putting stress on the soldering, you either have very excellent skill with the soldering iron, or aren't interested in doing things the Right Way™.Well Toodles stopped hosting the lil vid he posted of him shaking his stick with a box attached to it. The box did not budge.

There is no stress on the soldering at all. These d-subs are mounted into the case with screws and nuts.
These examples are meant to be linked with cable, not mounted, but it should at least illustrate that there is no stress on the solder. The pins would be the last thing to bend, if anything.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v450/ArcadeStickMonk/Controllers/Project%20Box%20Protos/ASM-ProjectBoxes-Protos.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v450/ArcadeStickMonk/Controllers/Namco%20mod/ASM-NamcoSanwa-db15-01.jpg

Also, most of us are using 3\4" wood, so those that wish to mount the boxes have some thickness to play around with and make a supportive inset. I know I plan to.

You might as well have made your first post with, "This is the SRK standard for arcade sticks."I've got a half dozen or more projects lined up for use with this concept, and I'm actually waiting on a concensus here. If all I cared about were my own ideas, I would have started my work already and not even bothered with this discussion.

your standard falls short when it comes to interfacing with anything other than consoles.I'll tell you what I think is true, and please correct where I'm wrong.

- I can connect to PC via an I-Pac in a project box.

- The Neo Geo pinout had been adopted as a kind of supergun standard.

Now, since I'm not pushing the pinout I initially listed, but rather looking for ideas, I can see the NG pinout covering all our bases if the above is correct. Of course, if the above is correct, any pinout could do the same for Neo and superguns if it was re-routed with a simple adaptor; which is actually one of my projects lying in wait.

So I'm examining both sides here. We could go Neo Geo and reap instant compatibilty with what has already been done with it; or we could choose a different pinout that suits our collective needs better (maybe larger) and still get those Neo perks with a coupla bucks worth of parts to make an adaptor.

arcadecontrols.com... found better ways of dealing with these issues.I've got to get to some woodwork so I won't have time to read there until later. Care to bounce a few alternatives off us in the meantime?

--------------

Somebody brought up whether the male or female end should go on the stick. I vote for the female because I have the idea that the male pins stand a greater chance of being knocked and bent if mounted the the heavier, more frequently traveling stick.

Of course, if you mount in an inset, it doesn't matter.

[WaQs]

blah blah blah It is clear that you are not interested in a 'standard' way of doing things, rather, you are interested in other people doing things the way you do it blah blah

Think you need to spend some more time in finishing school

[Rei]

Think you need to spend some more time in finishing school
Is a sentence fragment.

[Rei]

I've got to get to some woodwork so I won't have time to read there until later. Care to bounce a few alternatives off us in the meantime?

http://www.beersmith.com/mame/wiring.htm

Obviously, he is going into i-pac, but that can just as well go into j-pac (for jamma) or any other console pcb.

Most of the ones that I have seen around are 2-wire (single player), and not 5-wire (two player). They move start/select from cable 3 to cable 1, but if you notice, on cable 1, it has duplicates of button 1, 2, and 7 so that he can do some voodoo for the neo-geo thumb button.

There are better ways to do it than the way he has done. I won't go into it here because, like I said, you seem to not be interested in building a modular, expandable standard, but rather a standard that only accounts for six button capcom games that you prefer.


Edit:

- The Neo Geo pinout had been adopted as a kind of supergun standard.

Now, since I'm not pushing the pinout I initially listed, but rather looking for ideas, I can see the NG pinout covering all our bases if the above is correct.

Supergun
1 Common (GND)
2 NC
3 Coin
4 D Button
5 B Button
6 Right
7 Down
8 +5v
9 Second D Button
10 Second C Button
11 Start
12 C Button
13 A Button
14 Left
15 Up

NeoGeo
1 Common (GND)
2 NC
3 Select
4 D Button
5 B Button
6 Right
7 Down
8 +5v
9 D Button
10 NC
11 Start
12 C Button
13 A Button
14 Left
15 Up

[Shin Ace]

Here's the pinout I use, copied an pasted from a text file on my desktop.

VGA joystick pinout:

1 GND ----- black
2 a ----- sol or
3 b ----- sol gr
4 c ----- sol blu - 6
5 x ----- str or
6 y ----- str gr
7 z ----- str blu - 5
8
9 NOT CONNECTED
10 up ----- sol blu
11 right----- sol or
12 down----- str blu
13 left----- str or
14 start----- sol brown - 7
15 5V ----- red

sol = solid
str = stripped
5-6-7 are the numbered buttons on a certain USB pad that I hack.

I like the VGA connector better, but pin 9 is really not connected, you can't use it at all with the extension cables I have. The only reason I went with VGA db15 is because I have 2 connectors side by side. They're both the same, so it doesn't matter which I use. And yes, I do use them both sometimes.

I'd say 2 row db15 should be standard, with a pinout closer to mine as opposed to the random looking supergun pinout.

Realistically, the cost of making this for someone else is prohibitive. I like the idea, that's why I did it for myself.
The only way I'll do it for someone else is if they understand it'll practically double the cost of the entire stick.

[gaijin]

with a pinout closer to mine as opposed to the random looking supergun pinout.

Heh, I think we could all say the same though. Apparently we all each have our own set-up. :P

I may as well toss mine into the mix, though I will admit I'm flexible and open to ideas at this point.

1 - Up
2- Down
3 - Right
4 - Left
5 - Ground
6 - Select (extra on pads without this)
7 - Start
8 - button 1
9 - button 2
10 - button 3
11 - button 4
12 - button 5
13 - button 6
14 - button 7 (or power source or extra)
15 - button 8 (or additional ground for power source or extra)

I still don't know why I decided on this layout way back when. Do any of us have any concrete reasons for our own, conceived layouts?

[ArcadeStickMonk]

you seem to... be interested in building... a standard that only accounts for six button capcom games that you prefer.Well yeah, which is why I broached this thread on SRK, for SRK, and not a more general forum. Six buttons will handle every fighting game out there.

Now, connector format aside, where does our idea dismiss use in any of the applications that you have hinted at? And in the MAME world, when are you ever going to need more than six buttons? Is it just a hotrod autoconfig concern?


The CAT5 hookup is hot, though. Thank you for the link. I already know of a place where I will use it in place of a d-sub. It won't be for mounting a project box though.

------

it'll practically double the cost of the entire stick.I don't understand this.

Well, I guess I do assuming you are including a wired up encoder inna box with the unit. If it was just the stick by itself, no PCB inside but wired up on a d-sub, then there's no way that could double the cost.

Are you assuming a nice mounting for the project box or something?

[Shin Ace]

The cost of a stick, at least 2 encoders(people likely to choose this want multiple systems), and the db15 cable. Then there's the extra labor involved.

On top of all that, I built my personal stick with optical buttons, so even more parts and labor.

edit: To put a barrier strip inside a project box wouldn't be a bad idea, since then you wouldn't need a standard. Just open up the project box and rewire everything with the help of a small screwdriver. That way, it's a stealth install, and you're still compatible with Supergun and neogeo and SRK standard and...

[N-Ken]

I won't go into it here because, like I said, you seem to not be interested in building a modular, expandable standard, but rather a standard that only accounts for six button capcom games that you prefer.




Notice you're the only one talking about NON Capcom games? Thats because that is whats played here, fighting games. If we were discussing dance games we'd be on a DDR/bemani/ w/e site. If we were discussing how to play authentic Tempest we'd be on AC. But we're on Shoryuken, a fighting game website. 6 buttons covers EVERYTHING that this site is for, you're wasting peoples time by saying something is flawed when it covers everything needed for its purpose.

I, as a stick buyer, would love to see more people sell with DB15s and to have a standard for it, so that I could buy encoders or what have you later on with ease.

[ArcadeStickMonk]

The cost of a stick, at least 2 encoders(people likely to choose this want multiple systems), and the db15 cable. Then there's the extra labor involved.Ok, for a complete package I can understand.

But for just one stick wired for the encoders, but not including the encoders (hence the push for a standard) and not including space buttons that you make yourself, McGuyver, the cost should be less if anything.

[Shin Ace]

It would indeed cost less.

That would only happen if someone already had a custom universal stick, had encoders, but wanted a second/spare stick.

[ArcadeStickMonk]

Which is why we're talking about this!

SPACE BUTTONS!

[Shin Ace]

You're just jealous, admit it.

[Rei]

Notice you're the only one talking about NON Capcom games? Thats because that is whats played here, fighting games. If we were discussing dance games we'd be on a DDR/bemani/ w/e site. If we were discussing how to play authentic Tempest we'd be on AC. But we're on Shoryuken, a fighting game website. 6 buttons covers EVERYTHING that this site is for, you're wasting peoples time by saying something is flawed when it covers everything needed for its purpose.

I, as a stick buyer, would love to see more people sell with DB15s and to have a standard for it, so that I could buy encoders or what have you later on with ease.
So, DB15 with supergun/neogeo pin-out it is.

[lseelba]

DB15 cables and connectors are getting harder and harder to find. I have it set up on one of my sticks, using 8 buttons and no 5V. But if you are going to drop two buttons and add a 5V...why not just use a VGA cable (VGA cables are not technically DB15 cables). Yeah they only have 14 pins, but they are ubiquitous and connectors are easy to find. You'd have to drop one of your grounds, but it was superfluous anyway. DB15 is a thing of the past as far as standards go.

[yoooooon]

hmm, i am going to look at my mas supernova pin out, i don't think it is the same as the neo-geo/supergun pinout.

[dummyface]

hmm, i am going to look at my mas supernova pin out, i don't think it is the same as the neo-geo/supergun pinout.


Unless it was built for A Neo-Geo specifically the pin out is different.

[gaijin]

DB15 cables and connectors are getting harder and harder to find. I have it set up on one of my sticks, using 8 buttons and no 5V. But if you are going to drop two buttons and add a 5V...why not just use a VGA cable (VGA cables are not technically DB15 cables). Yeah they only have 14 pins, but they are ubiquitous and connectors are easy to find. You'd have to drop one of your grounds, but it was superfluous anyway. DB15 is a thing of the past as far as standards go.

Hmmm, as far as the male/female connectors go, they most certainly are not rare. I could walk into any radio shack and buy a slew of them, and they're reasily available through just about any online electronics vendor, as well.

I can't comment on the DB15 cables though. I've never had any need for them, and as such, aren't aware of their availability, diminished or not...

[dummyface]

Hmmm, as far as the male/female connectors go, they most certainly are not rare. I could walk into any radio shack and buy a slew of them, and they're reasily available through just about any online electronics vendor, as well.

I can't comment on the DB15 cables though. I've never had any need for them, and as such, aren't aware of their availability, diminished or not...


2 row DB15's or 3 row DB15's?
Every radio shack I have ever been in only has the hi-density 3 row DB15, Witch is not what we want.

[gaijin]

Both two and three row D-sub connectors. I always bought the high-density ones myself, but only because I never had to interface with anything other than my own project boxes. Heh, I thought they looked nicer, and that was my only reason for choosing them over the two-row versions. :P

Anyway. even if you can't find them locally, for whatever reasons, there are still numerous online and mail-order channels through which you may find and purchase them. I understand that they might slowly be phased out of some vendor's catalogs to make way for other methods, but I think that there will very likely always be some place that you can go to find these sorts of things. Someone, somewhere will understand that they can cater to a niche market by carrying them. And considering how many hobbyists there are, I don't have any fears of them disappearing forever.

But Hell, I've been wrong before.

[Rei]

Both two and three row D-sub connectors. I always bought the high-density ones myself, but only because I never had to interface with anything other than my own project boxes. Heh, I thought they looked nicer, and that was my only reason for choosing them over the two-row versions. :P

Anyway. even if you can't find them locally, for whatever reasons, there are still numerous online and mail-order channels through which you may find and purchase them. I understand that they might slowly be phased out of some vendor's catalogs to make way for other methods, but I think that there will very likely always be some place that you can go to find these sorts of things. Someone, somewhere will understand that they can cater to a niche market by carrying them. And considering how many hobbyists there are, I don't have any fears of them disappearing forever.

But Hell, I've been wrong before.
When people were making multi-system arcade sticks 'back in the day' (Saturn, SNES, etc) and they were using molex connectors because even though they were being phased out, you could find them 'everywhere.'

Try to find molex connectors anywhere that are compatible with multi-system arcade sticks that were made using molex just 3 or 4 years ago.

[ArcadeStickMonk]

What connector could we use that would never, ever be phased out of sellers' supply? Be it CAT5, molex, or serial, the exact specifications will eventually change, if not disappearing entirely.

If there was evidence that the d-subs were in danger of drying up, then I'd agree that this point is well worth going over; but I just don't think that they are. And amongst the aforementioned methods, my money is on D-sub to last the longest in ready supply.

--------

The worries of where to get cable for the larger d-subs should be addressed. I have actually never tried to find thm, so I do not know who has them and who does not. I will look into it.

However, I will restate that one of the benefits of DB15 and larger is that they can support the project box by themselves. So with proper planning in regards to case dimensions and box size, direct mounting is easy and eliminates the need for a cable.

[Toodles]

When people were making multi-system arcade sticks 'back in the day' (Saturn, SNES, etc) and they were using molex connectors because even though they were being phased out, you could find them 'everywhere.'

Try to find molex connectors anywhere that are compatible with multi-system arcade sticks that were made using molex just 3 or 4 years ago.
Sweet jesus jiminy fucking christmas, we get the point. You don't like the idea of external encoders using DB connectors. Youve said that, multiple times, and continue with this 'damn you're all stupid because you're not doing it my way' bullshit. If you're right, then shut you're fucking trap and laugh at all of us when we finally come to the conclusion you're right. That aught to appeal to your sense of superiority, but I dont care as long as the trap shutting takes place.

And I dare you to pull up a picture of even a 5 year old molex connector that can't be gotten anymore. Just because you're local radio shack doesnt have them doesnt mean they arent out there.

Some people after my post are still set in the 6 button mindset, so Im quoting from my old post for emphasis; I wanted feedback from others about the idea for supporting 8 buttons.
If you absolutely has to have 8 buttons, start, and select, you could wire one of the buttons to pin 9, and the other to the metal housing around the connectors. As long as you followed this convention with your encoder boxes, all would work well, and there wouldn't be any problem using a 15 pin midi extension cable to use this on authentic neogeo machines.
Someone mentioned systems that dont have a 'select'ish button like the DC. Id just like to point out that using the 'select' button on the stick activate both short and start (a taunt button) is really easy to do.

lastly, 15 male on the encoder, 15 pin female on the stickbox, so the sex of the connections matches neogeo as well.

15 pin connections, and even super high quality 15 pin cables are readily available. They're used for MIDI connections with instruments like, uh, synthesizer keyboards. (Sorry, not musically inclined at all) Or just hit ebay or the like for PC joystick extensions which are damn cheap.

Ok, seriously, this is the last thing. Using such a wiring system would make an adapter to PC MIDI joystick really easy. If Im remembering right, like 2 transisters, 6 resisters, and a couple of diodes. I have a schematic drawn out at the house, and just havent gotten around the making it. Itll be at least two months until I can, but I just wanted to throw that out there. Due to limitations in the MIDI joystick design, it is limited to a TOTAL of 6 buttons, including start and select. so you could use it for street fighter, but would have to reach over to the keyboard to hit start or put in coins. GG#Reload would work fine. If you didnt want to make a MIDI connection, a USB encoder box could always be made and support your stick fully.

[Rei]

Sweet jesus jiminy fucking christmas, we get the point. You don't like the idea of external encoders using DB connectors. Youve said that, multiple times, and continue with this 'damn you're all stupid because you're not doing it my way' bullshit. If you're right, then shut you're fucking trap and laugh at all of us when we finally come to the conclusion you're right. That aught to appeal to your sense of superiority, but I dont care as long as the trap shutting takes place.

And I dare you to pull up a picture of even a 5 year old molex connector that can't be gotten anymore. Just because you're local radio shack doesnt have them doesnt mean they arent out there.

Some people after my post are still set in the 6 button mindset, so Im quoting from my old post for emphasis; I wanted feedback from others about the idea for supporting 8 buttons.

Someone mentioned systems that dont have a 'select'ish button like the DC. Id just like to point out that using the 'select' button on the stick activate both short and start (a taunt button) is really easy to do.

lastly, 15 male on the encoder, 15 pin female on the stickbox, so the sex of the connections matches neogeo as well.

15 pin connections, and even super high quality 15 pin cables are readily available. They're used for MIDI connections with instruments like, uh, synthesizer keyboards. (Sorry, not musically inclined at all) Or just hit ebay or the like for PC joystick extensions which are damn cheap.

Ok, seriously, this is the last thing. Using such a wiring system would make an adapter to PC MIDI joystick really easy. If Im remembering right, like 2 transisters, 6 resisters, and a couple of diodes. I have a schematic drawn out at the house, and just havent gotten around the making it. Itll be at least two months until I can, but I just wanted to throw that out there. Due to limitations in the MIDI joystick design, it is limited to a TOTAL of 6 buttons, including start and select. so you could use it for street fighter, but would have to reach over to the keyboard to hit start or put in coins. GG#Reload would work fine. If you didnt want to make a MIDI connection, a USB encoder box could always be made and support your stick fully.
I talk to hear myself speak. Haven't you figured that out yet?

[WaQs]

I talk to hear myself speak. Haven't you figured that out yet?

But unfortunately we can hear your dribble.

I think we covered all the issues with external project boxes. I have noted all my points (my main points being gender on the stick and box and the specific DB15 3 row or 2 row). I am happy rewriring my sticks and boxes to follow any format we choose.

I feel we should set up a poll, with possible choices. I think discussion can rave on forever.

[Rei]

But unfortunately we can hear your dribble.

I think we covered all the issues with external project boxes. I have noted all my points (my main points being gender on the stick and box and the specific DB15 3 row or 2 row). I am happy rewriring my sticks and boxes to follow any format we choose.

I feel we should set up a poll, with possible choices. I think discussion can rave on forever.
I agree, that's why I said Neogeo/Supergun should be the standard.

Although, I will happily argue with whomever wants to continue nitpicking.

[dummyface]

I'm changing my opinion.
As much as I like the neo_geo set up I think we should use DB25's instead.
This simply gives us maximum compatibility & room to expand in the future.
This is what I like,

Top Row

1-Ground
2- +5
3-N/C
4-N/C
5-up
6-right
7-down
8-left
9-N/C
10-N/C
11-start
12-select
13-N/C

Bottom Row

14-button 1
15-button 2
16-button 3
17-button 4
18-button 5
19-button 6
20-button 7
21-button 8
22-N/C
23-N/C
24-Ground (If needed/desired)
25- +5 (If needed/desired)

I feel this should cover all existing controlers & has some room to expand in the future.
Thoughts?

[WaQs]

hhhhmmm.....Sorry dummyface I ain't sold on the idea of DB25, yeah having expantion in place is a good thing only if you can see short comings in the current approach, otherwise its a case of lets leave a few extra connectors just in case (we should be using DB10000 to make us future proof). I am only pushing my point because I don't wanna go DB25, I don't like the size and for fighting games 6 buttons is the current upper bound and IMO will remain the upperbound.

I don't really care how many buttons are on a control pad, as the arcade stick is not meant to be a control pad replacement, its meant bring the arcade feel to console games, on that argument 6 buttons is enough. If you want to replicate all the buttons on a pad, don't forget about my atari jaguar.

[dummyface]

hhhhmmm.....Sorry dummyface I ain't sold on the idea of DB25, yeah having expantion in place is a good thing only if you can see short comings in the current approach, otherwise its a case of lets leave a few extra connectors just in case (we should be using DB10000 to make us future proof). I am only pushing my point because I don't wanna go DB25, I don't like the size and for fighting games 6 buttons is the current upper bound and IMO will remain the upperbound.

I don't really care how many buttons are on a control pad, as the arcade stick is not meant to be a control pad replacement, its meant bring the arcade feel to console games, on that argument 6 buttons is enough. If you want to replicate all the buttons on a pad, don't forget about my atari jaguar.

Well in my opinion you don't need any more than 4. :bgrin:
But some have expressed they want sticks with all 8 buttons functional.
Now i'm not saying i'm right or wrong here, It's just something I was thinking about & decided to throw it out there.

[WaQs]

Bump

I'm wiring another stick, we have a standard or what? or am i stick to my adhoc standard

[Rei]

Bump

I'm wiring another stick, we have a standard or what? or am i stick to my adhoc standard
Use Neogeo/Supergun.

[shrimpnoodles]

i say you guys should go with the db25. although no fighting games will require no more than a start and 6 buttons, but when you have the other buttons like select you can soft reset. i thought i dind't needed this when i sodered my pad without it, i find it quite annoying with it not being there. and the other two is for some games that might required it to pick secret characters. one game comes to mind is guilty gear x2. picking those SP and EX characters would require L1 L2 (and yes i realize those characters are useless but if you're plyaing for fun with friends, it keeps the game more interesting). and other reasons that have been mentioned before. besides it's not that unsightly.

[ArcadeStickMonk]

Been meaning to bump this all week.

Here's what I've been playing around with. Again, actual pinout number is arbitrary; I just listed it this way because it would be easy to read.

1. Down
2. Right
3. Left
4. Up
5. +5v
6. Start
7. Select
8. Button 1
9. Button 2
10. Button 3
11. Button 4
12. Button 5
13. Button 6
14. Button 7
15. Button 8

And the ground is run through the D-Sub casing itself, meaning that I can pull as many separate wires off of it as I want.

We lose the NG and supergun stuff, but I'd just build a project box like any other that simply switches the pinout to the NG format. I'ma build encoder boxes for everything else anyway, so if I needed the NG format I'd just plug the box in, same as any other console.

For SRK, I gather that it is more important to support current consoles in the most straight forward way possible than it is to retain the simplest compatibilty to the less common supergun stuff. And again, we don't lose compatibilty with it, we just need $12 worth of parts to re-route the pinout.

[shrimpnoodles]

that's fine as long as all grounds are common. but what happens if there are 2+ groungs? correct me if i'm wrong (i don't know much about electrical stuff) but h-series pad have two grounds and from what i know, you can't mix those. and wouldn't soldering it to the case the two different ground mixing it?

edit: h series have 1 ground

[ArcadeStickMonk]

Maybe, if we run into a required 2-ground situation, but we'd be just as fucked with any other 1 ground pinout.

Also, I dunno how many grounds the H has, but I've always just ran everything off of one, and I've been just fine.

[WaQs]

everything I've externally enclosed so far has one ground, i haven't had any issues. Is their any real reason to have two grounds, do some pcb's require it?

[ArcadeStickMonk]

I know that POS Gamester Xbox stick wants a different ground for every damn button, for example, which means we EE's won't be touching that one anyway.

I currently do not know of a 1st party PCB that requires more than one ground. Obviously, if it ain't 1st party, it ain't going near my equipment.

BTW, my interest in multiple grounds was simply to keep from ever having to daisy chain across both the stick and buttons, with the same chain.

[shrimpnoodles]

having a standard system, it can be use at evo with evo staff providing the encoder box without fear of blue screen, lag, incompatibility, and other things with converters. of course it won't be this year but if there's a standard, next year and so on this could happen.

[TheRealNeoGeo]

Is the DB15 standard or should we go with DB25?

[LBt1st]

1. Down
2. Right
3. Left
4. Up
5. +5v
6. Start
7. Select
8. Button 1
9. Button 2
10. Button 3
11. Button 4
12. Button 5
13. Button 6
14. Button 7
15. Button 8

And the ground is run through the D-Sub casing itself..

This seems fine to me. Might be awhile till I build anything but if we can settle on a standard you can count me in.
Anyone want to suggest a name for this standard? People selling on ebay or whatever should be able to say it's a "SRK Pinout" or some such. If someone does a search for example it should bring up anything supporting the standard.

-Bean I

[TheRealNeoGeo]

OK, that sounds good. What are you guys putting on the stick, is it DB15F or DB15M?
Also, I have read someone wrote that the DB25 is more "solid" and is fastened better when plugged in. What you guys think? And is the DB15 completly future-proof? What if we get more buttons in the future (god forbid!)?

[LBt1st]

I vote for the female because I have the idea that the male pins stand a greater chance of being knocked and bent if mounted the the heavier, more frequently traveling stick.

I 2nd this vote.

We need to decide on what determines what is button 1, button 2 etc.

Logic would say 1 = A, 2 = B, 3 = C etc..
But then there's weird buttons like Black, White, Triangle Circle, Left Trigger etc..

Something else to consider. When a device (controller) is connected to a PC (or console), the buttons are numbered 0 through whatever. Should we use this ordering as the basis.. which then presents a new problem. How to we find out what this order is? Some of use has xbox/PS controllers connected to PC but what about the rest?

Personally I think the easiest way would be for everyone to agree to use the same table which contains what's what for each system. Anytime a new system comes out we update the table.

Something like:

Pin Pin Name Xbox DC PS2 PSOne etc...

01. Down D-Pad Down
02. Right D-Pad Right
03. Left D-Pad Left
04. Up D-Pad Up
05. +5v
06. Start Start
07. Select Back
08. Button 1 A
09. Button 2 B
10. Button 3 X
11. Button 4 Y
12. Button 5 Black
13. Button 6 White
14. Button 7 L
15. Button 8 R

11/14/2005


I also suggest we place the systems in order of their release with newer systems on the Left.

-Bean I

[Mayhem]

We need to decide on what determines what is button 1, button 2 etc.

Logic would say 1 = A, 2 = B, 3 = C etc..
But then there's weird buttons like Black, White, Triangle Circle, Left Trigger etc..
I find tackling the problem on the other end more relevant, that is defining which button on the stick to be assigned as number 1, 2, 3, etc. How the encoder box handles this would then be up to the builder/customer, as some would want L1/R1 for fierce/roundhouse while others prefer having R1/R2 instead. Most people would probably suggest something like this initially:
1 2 3
4 5 6
But if there is to be any point in keeping the Neo-Geo pin-out, shouldn't the button ordering be compatible with the classic arch as well?
2 3 4
1 5 6
Then again I am not a stick maker and this may not matter at all...

[TheRealNeoGeo]

http://www.catskillsupply.com/endcrimp.html
Can I use this instead of soldering (looks better)?

Also, it it this I am going to use:
http://www.catskillsupply.com/dsubshellsdb15.html#11095
???

[Toodles]

You can, and it will work fine. The pins on the male side always seemed flimsy to me, and Id be worried about it standing up to the abuse it will take. If those are better design that the radio shack ones Ive tried in the past, give it a try. Experiment and see what you come up with.

[TheRealNeoGeo]

Toodles
So the "standard" should be that the stick has a femaledb-15, right?
Will the inside take any abuse (don`t understand)?

[Toodles]

The female side using crimps is almost the same as the solder versions, and should handle abuse almost as well as the solder version, and better than crimp males by far. The 'flimsiness' Im afraid of is the wiggling of the male pins; they are much looser than the solder versions, and wiggle around a bunch when not plugged in. Im just afraid that someone will jam a female onto it when the pins are in a bad position, and bend one of the male pins. If you take care connecting them, you'll have no problem, but the solder versions just feel more sturdy to me.

[TheRealNeoGeo]

Aha, now I get it, thanks!
I hope they don`t sell wigglycrap :(.
Where can I find cheap cables?

[dummyface]

I still stand by the DB25.
How the hell you going to run A ground on the DB15's casing if it's plastic?

[TheRealNeoGeo]

dummyface
Damn, never thought of that >_<!
Where do you buy yours (url)?

[ArcadeStickMonk]

Whoa, never thought this would get bumped.

Getting right to it, I basically went ahead with my general design, but I changed just about every detail on the way. These pics show my DB-15 pinout maps and an example of it messily crammed into my old MAS stick. This is about as far as I got before succumbing to burnout and throwing everything in the closet and going back to playing Halo. The guilt grows daily.

DB-15 Pinout (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v450/ArcadeStickMonk/Controllers/ASM-DB15Pinout1.jpg) Lines inna circles indicate I stripe the wires with a marker.

Installed internal view (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v450/ArcadeStickMonk/Controllers/asm-db15-installedstick-01.jpg)
Installed external view (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v450/ArcadeStickMonk/Controllers/asm-db15-installedstick-02.jpg)

I reordered the pins because having the eight buttons in the eight pin row was a no-brainer.

The 5v was kicked off of the map, however, if you look as the internal pic, you'll see a red wire coming off of one of the mounting screws. I have one coming out of a mounting screw in the project box too, and I run the 5v though this, through th DB-15 casing itself. I'm not 100% sure of it's reliabilty, but it does work; I've played with it.

As for the mounting, I put the one with the pins (males, female?) in that stick, and I sunk it near flush with the wood. I mount my project boxes directly to the stick, so this ensures a close marriage.




And is the DB15 completly future-proof? What if we get more buttons in the futureI'm not really using buttons 7 or 8 now, and no fighting game has ever needed more than 6 buttons.

Also, the button count has not gone up with the 360 or PS3 ('cept for that infernal "Live" button). I believe we are set for this coming generation with 8 button support.


How the hell you going to run A ground on the DB15's casing if it's plastic?Good point.

As I stated already in this post, the 5v and the Ground essentially switched places, since the 5v is used far less often.

Also, I won't be using a plastic cased DB-15 until I can't find a metal one. I'm also not intending this setup for a cable, but for a direct project box mount.



As I said, I only got the prototypes done and then had to get out of the game for my own sanity. I worked a bunch of over time, upgraded my gaming setup, and stopped reading SRK.

Well I think the sabatical is over, and it is thanks to this thread and some other SRKers I'm been in contact with just recently.

*Holds hand up for high-five*

S'cuse me now, I've got a X360 pad to hack.

[TheRealNeoGeo]

I am getting dizzy from all this....
Should I use DB15 or DB25(fits better?)? I mostly do 6button layout now but I was gonna do 8playbuttons and a flashstick (there are some people wanna softboot the xbox and "must " have 8buttons), do I use the DB15 or DB25?
Second, if I buy the one with plastic casing and I only use 6buttonlayouts than it doesn`t matter, right?
And please, are we shooting for db15 as standard?

[dummyface]

As an old head Neo-Geo guy I honestly love the DB15.
But the more i look at it the DB25 just seems more practical.
Like having the +5, 2 grounds, credit button for A supergun, the new "live" button for the 360, ect ect... & still keep all 8 buttons for those who want it.
DB25 plugs are available at every radio shack I have ever been in whear as the low density (2 row) DB15s are no where to be found there. (at least around here I know some have said that their stores have them).
You can buy DB25 extension cables from just about anywhere, As I am finding the DB15 extension cables are almost A special order / internet item only.

TheRealNeoGeo,
I don't have A URL to the plastic DB15 plugs, but I know they exisit.
Go ask over at www.neo-geo.com, That is where I saw them.
Unless I am working on something specific for the Neo-Geo itself I use DB25s.
And I think we are still fighting between the DB15 & the DB25. :)

[TheRealNeoGeo]

OK, that does it. I will use the DB25 because:

A: It is easy to get both connectors and cable.
B: It is cheap.
C: Room for everything (future proof).
D: It sits more solid together (connector/cable).

[LBt1st]

OK, that does it. I will use the DB25 because:

A: It is easy to get both connectors and cable.
B: It is cheap.
C: Room for everything (future proof).
D: It sits more solid together (connector/cable).


Makes sense to me. More then anything is availability. If people can find the parts, they won't use the standard. If DB15 is nearly extinct, poop on it.

So what pins should be what?

-Bean I

[dummyface]

Here is what I think,

SRK Standard Pinout

Top Row

1-Ground
2- +5
3-N/C
4-N/C
5-up
6-right
7-down
8-left
9-N/C
10-N/C
11-start
12-select
13-N/C

Bottom Row

14-button 1
15-button 2
16-button 3
17-button 4
18-button 5
19-button 6
20-button 7
21-button 8
22-N/C
23-N/C
24-Multi use pin ("live" button, mode on A PS, credit for supergun ect ect..)
25-Ground

Female Jack mounted on the stick.
Male jack mounted in project box.

Button Layout

1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8

Sega Genisis
1 = X
2 = Y
3 = Z
5 = A
6 = B
7 = C
Pin #12 - Select = Mode

SNES
1 = Y
2 = X
3 = L
5 = B
6 = A
7 = R

Playstation
1 = L1
2 = Square
3 = Triangle
4 = R1
5 = L2
6 = X
7 = Circle
8 = R2
Pin #24 = Mode

Dreamcast
1 = X
2 = Y
3 = R
5 = A
6 = B
7 = L

Saturn
1 = X
2 = Y
3 = Z
4 = L
5 = A
6 = B
7 = C
8 = R

X-Box
1 = X
2 = Y
3 = L
4 = White
5 = A
6 = B
7 = R
8 = Black
Pin #24 = "Live" button

Thoughts?

[TheRealNeoGeo]

I dunno what pin should be what, can you write a good "PIN-list" ^_^?
Also, the cables you can get DIRTYcheap:
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=51&products_id=1189&
0,10us$/cable (L.O.L!)
And I am going to use these:
http://www.catskillsupply.com/dsubshellsdb25.html#11100
Crimp Pin DB-25 D-Sub shells (50pcs/12,50us$). I think it looks much nicer instead of soldering to the pins on the back.
http://www.catskillsupply.com/endcrimp.html#11000
Crimp-pins (100pcs/4us$, high density offcourse ^_^) are here + tools.
Any comments?

[dummyface]

Only thing about those DB25 cables you posted is this.
They are male to male.
Now, I reckon you could just use DB25 female jacks on bolth ends, Or spend $3-$4 on A gender changer.
But either way that is an incredible price.
I was hoping the "pinout" I just posted would be easy to read. :sad:
Tell me what is confuzing you and i'll see if i can do one up better.

[TheRealNeoGeo]

dummyface
Thanks man, I understand almost everything BUT could you do it in paint or something, easier to understand (I am new to all this).
Female connector on the stick, yes! Female on the project box, no? With the cable I linked to it is only male pinouts but yeah you could get a converter or whatevah but I think it is best to use female connectors on both stick and projectbox because we don`t need to worrie that something will get bent.
What is you oppinion?

[dummyface]

Only problem I see is guys like ArcadeStickMonk who want to directly connect the project box to the stick.
I'll see if I can get some paint action going.

[TheRealNeoGeo]

I don`t like to directconnect the projectbox to the stick, specially if the stick is low, who want a box hanging on it then?

[LBt1st]

I agree that it should be female on the stick and male on the project box. If people want to use a cord they can use an extension but some people will want a direct connection and that should be possible.

I'd like to designate a power-button pin as well. I'm not sure how many systems support it without modding but since we have the extra pins I don't see why not?
Here's a link to an xbox mod to allow this: http://www.xbox-scene.com/articles/power-button-controller.php
(this makes use of an extra, unused wire in xbox controller cables. Not sure if 360 will have the same deal)
I personally find it very handy as my xbox is tucked away.


The button layout I think should be left up to the stick builder. As long as the correct pins wire to the correct buttons (X, Y, L, R etc). Obviously most people will want a Capcom or SNK type layout but the standard should force it.

-Bean I

[FMJaguar]

I would advise against adding a xbox power button...

HYPER, HYPER.... game resets.... wtf!

[ArcadeStickMonk]

Even though I would essentially have to re-do every single serial port I've done so far, I could easily be swayed to do so to meet a 25-pin standard. I'm not as gun-ho about 15 as I was previously (for some reason) and the price and availabilityof 15 pin serials has been a concern of mine.

However, I will always be connecting my boxes directly to my stick. I've got a good system worked out, nothing hangs below the stick, I'm keeping it.

Also, I will always put the male serial in the stick, recessed to be flush, like so. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v450/ArcadeStickMonk/Controllers/asm-db15-installedstick-02.jpg)


Good to see this movement come back. It's awesome to see that SRK is finding a standard, even if I decide to not use it.

[dummyface]

Like Real Neo Geo, I prefur A cable to connect my boxes to my stick.
But I know others will want to directly plug the box into the stick.
That is why I say we MUST have bolth male and female plugs.
I honestly don't think whether the female is mounted on the stick or the box really matters, What I posted was simply the first one that came to mind.
If all elese fails you could buy A gender changer.
As far as rewiring existing encoder boxes, Couldn't you simply make A DB15 to DB25 adaptor to keep them functional?
I know this would render the box 'non stick mountable' but it would keep you from rewiring it all together.
I agree that the final button layout should be up to the stick builder.
But, by having A standard layout and simply ommiting the buttons you don't want any config is possible.
I.E.

SF
1 2 3 X
5 6 7 X

SNK
1 2 3 4
X X X X

GG
1 2 3 X
5 X 7 X

Universal Fighting game
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 X

I THINK I have listed the accepted button layout for most consoles.
Such as the PS, I copied the layout of the HRAP.
If some one sees an error and can show me A good picture I will change it.

[TheRealNeoGeo]

Forgot to post it in this thread but my layout looks like this:
http://arkadesticks.com/DB25ZIP1.jpg
http://arkadesticks.com/DB25ZIP2.jpg

I used separate grounds so in the future if some pads do not have a common ground (like the xbox360pad) this will be good (MODE-button is mounted on the projectbox).
What you guys think?

[Shodokan123]

db25 sounds good to me...

common standards are good, especially since for the most part it can be alot mroe structured on how business goes about here regarding sticks and project boxes etc.

I think personally if this were to become a standard, the main stick builders should come to an agreement as to the price of project boxes as seprate entities. This way jobs can be passed around if a particular person is bogged down or w/e and the buyer not having to worry about a difference in price.

[pxldtz]

layout should be left to the builder and the customer.
for instance, in GGXX#r2 (gotta love the name)
-the extra buttons (7/8) are used for selecting the different costumes or EX mode on both ps2 and xbox.
-then there's doa4, you only need 4 buttons on that one, the shoulder buttons are nothing more than double buttons (P+F etc.) which i, and a bunch of people i know never use . 6 (the bumpers) if you're really set on using taunts.
-then you have the 2 grounds issue. not every hacked pad has a dual ground. the pads i use (sf:ac) do.
-what about the ps1 pads though? most of those (and what the majority of people use) have a single ground. having a dsub wired up to use 2 grounds and then getting an adapter from somebody thats only wired up for 1 ground would really toss things around a bit. (sf:ac uses 1 gnd for bck/st and dpad, the other for buttons)

don't get me wrong. i really LOVE the idea of a universal adapter of some sort, but given the combinations of pads grounds and layouts. i don't know how well this can be pulled off. probably an order by order basis. i know there's only a handful of us around here that sell boxes (im not a good enough stick builder yet).
but an adapter box would be any ones game to work on.

oh yeah, also i'd advice against crimp style anything. tried them on my first stick, took back a multitude of cables and resoldered everything multiple times, only to find out that the crimped in pins wherent making contact. the pins slid in all the way ( they made a click noise and wouldn't come out when pulled) but still no constant contact. the solder ones worked perfectly.

maybe some people can get them to work properly but i never could. solder ones are just about 99% guaranteed to work if dont correctly.

[futhamucka]

I've been lurking on this thread for a while and decided to use this idea on my next stick. I have the PCB ready to go, I have a project box and the connecter. My problem is I don't know how to make a neat hole in the project box for the connecter to go through.

Does anyone have any ideas on this? Can you post pictures of your project boxes so I can get a feel for it?

I don't have a dremel, just a drill, I have a feeling I might have to get one though :)

[albert_c]

DB15 - I've got all my cabs rigged like this. It has worked perfectly in every situation. Even connecting a dreamcast system to a jamma fingerboard.

1 - up
2 - down
3 - left
4 - right
5 - select/back/ (dreamcast not used)
6 - start
7 - ground 1
8 - 5V
9 - L.P
10 - M.P
11 - H.P
12 - L.K
13 - M.K
14 - H.K
15 - Ground 2

BAM!

It's simple - directions and select start on the top row and six buttons on the bottom. Easy to memorize too.

[NiteWalker]

I like albert_c's pinout and I like the idea of db15 over db25.
If I ever adapt to a db connector method, the db15 on the joystick won't be visable. It'll be on the inside of the box. This way, all that shows is a db15 cable. Much like superguns.

[NiteWalker]

I was thinkin about this. Since everyone's caught inbetween db15 and db25 why not adopt a standard for each instead of deciding on one over the other? I like the idea of a standard but both hav pros and cons...
For instance, my upcoming tekken stick only needs 10 pins total; the buttons, directions, ground and start. It would be very wasteful not to mention dog ugly to see a gigantic db25 connector on the back of a stick that only uses 10 pins.
On the other hand, for someone who wants a fully featured stick with 8 buttons, start, and select would be fine with a db25 connector. Where these really shine is where some PCB's are picky with ground (xbox reflex) and want one for each button.
So I suggest one standard for db15 and one for db25.

[ShadyMailMan]

Where does everyone buy their gameport db-15 connectors from? I recently bought some 3 row db-15 connectors but the cables i'd be using would be really thick. The gameport db-15 cables are relatively thin, so i might reconsider. Radioshack is usually my source of these components but for something like gameport db-15's I have to look elsewhere. Anyone gettem cheap online somewhere? Also, are there thinner db-15 cables then those thick ones used for computer monitors? I'm just happy there's a brilliant way to make multi-system sticks without the dealings with resistors and zener diodes like how i was trying to put two pcbs in a switch system with fighting over voltages. :-)

[chippermonky]

anyone know where to get gameport db15 cables with ALL cables inside or do I have to make my own goddamn cable?