A small FG storyline discussion thread:

[axeman61]

Before I even get into this, let me clarify that I don't want to hear anything about how fighting game storylines are unimportant or whatever. We are going to talk about fighting game storylines at their current value. The questions to answer for discussion here are:

-What FG storyline do you like/dislike the most?
-What are your specific beefs with any FG story you've been keeping any tabs on?
-Do you think more Fighting games should focus on storytelling/have story modes?

I can't answer any of my own questions right now because it's late and my nose is acting up.

[Thongboy Bebop]

I think Soul Calibur's always had the best flow and integration, but Namco's always on top of stuff. New characters make sense with the storyline, characters don't really get thrown around willy-nilly, it's all smooth and together. Tekken is like that too, I just like SC better.

KoF is a close second, though I think after the Orochi section (Yashiro/Shermie/Chris year) it got a little dumb.

Street Fighter is pure nonsense, even though I love it. They just throw shit at a wall and hope it sticks.

N

[Saotome Kaneda]

Project Justice/Rival Schools/Justice Gakuen for the win.

[4neqs]

^What he said. Aside from the initial confusion about the Imawano clan (which was easily cleared up), RS/PJ's story is easy to follow and enjoyable.

[kane_warhead]

^ I agree. High School Soap Opera mixed with People fighting each other to knows who's the best.

It's like Dawson Creek mixed with Blood Sport.

[Rioting Soul]

-What FG storyline do you like/dislike the most?

KoF had the best story IMO. The current storyline can easily be salvaged. Right now Tekken is the best and that's not saying much. Of current fightng games, SF3 sucks the most.

-What are your specific beefs with any FG story you've been keeping any tabs on?

What I hate is the retconning of deaths. How many Mortal Kombat characters died and then undied? Don't move the story along then compromise it by bringing ppl back to life with no explaination. If SNK doesn't explain Geese still being alive then I wouldn't be suprised. Also I dislike how fighting game stories are generally written and played out. Nobody should have to check online to know the story of the game. This is why casual players make up stories, you all remember back when we assumed that Ryu and Chun Li were siblings/a couple?

-Do you think more Fighting games should focus on storytelling/have story modes?

Take MGS1 and 2 and switch all the gameplay to human vs. AI fighting, that's what I want story modes to be like. Fighting game stories really have been sucking and there's no excuse. The arcade mode can stay the same but there should also be a story mode(for console). And by "story mode" I mean something more than what GGXX and T5 gives. For console Story Mode, each character should have their own path and as you walk it, you actually learn about the character's personality, purpose, and origin. Give the characters actual emotions and real life problems. No more villains that are evil just because and never question it(Everybody except Justice). Enough with the shallow impractical characters. 2-5 minute cutscenes(no still pictures with words) for each charcter before every fight and animation/conversations before round starts. Story mode should add huge replay value. A person with no friends interested in fighters should still be able to enjoy a fighting game. Beating story mode with all players should be an interesting goal and should last as long as an average rpg.

Imagine playing an rpg where all it is to it is battling, no story at all. You don't even know what your character is fighting for.

[Saotome Kaneda]

FUCKING TRUTH

Have my children.

[Agmaster]

^Oh man, I laugh because Kaneda and Rioting speak wise.

I like PJ, GGX (X2 changed up stuff randomly), old school KoF, SoCal, and Tekken (while I don't like Paul being made a retard, the story does flow and stay non-retarded.)

X2 - Eddie is STILL alive. That and his black magic being changed to an anti-gear weapon.
KoF - Just proceed already. I want to see powered up Ash or whatever is going to happen next. With nests out of the picture, the storyline is worth paying attention to again.

Yes, yes I do believe they should contain better storylines/modes. It really is not that hard. Just look at MBR.

[axeman61]

I realized that besides Scorpion, Eddie is the only character I'm okay with being "resurrected."

Anyway, I like both the Tekken and Mortal Kombat storylines, but here are my problems with them.

Tekken
-How it can take anywhere near 20 years to research the Devil Gene in Kazuya. Also, how one swoop in with some helicopters and guys with guns could destroy 20 years of research is beyond the logic in me. You'd think they would take extensive backup precautions around the 15-year mark.
-Kazuya is cool, but a bitch essentially. How is he going to be hiding with the part of him that makes him super strong being researched so extensively for 20 years, yet still lose to his son who's trying to fight off a weaker version of it? Also, after aforementioned son flies out of the dojo, how can he just cut through NEW Jacks like butter?
-Ling's story in 5 is retarded.


Mortal Kombat
-How in the hell did Scorpion come back in DA the 6th or 7th time? The thing is, Konquest mode will tell you that he found Quan Chi and Quan ended the resulting fight by knocking Scorpion into the moat of acid surrounding the stage they were on. Before that, he escaped through the same portal Quan used, but I don't remember an explanation for the acid trip.
-How in the hell did Shinnok die? He's obviously not around? Did Liu Kang get rid of him?
-If Liu Kang could destroy a former Elder God, then how could he get his neck snapped in a 2-on-1 attack by 2 sorcerers? I know that winning the tournament only promises agelessness, but come on...
-Nightwolf sucks in MKD. Nuff said.
-Bo Rai Cho couldn't compete in MK because he didn't want Earth to be enslaved/taken over/whatever. He makes this clear with the explanation that since he originated from outworld, his win would have been for outworld. This is very odd; Shang Tsung is from earth originally and I wouldn't think that his wins would have the earth breakdancing out of joy.

[Rioting Soul]

It's gotten to the point where I have no idea what's going on in Mortal Kombat anymore and I don't care to know. I stopped at Liu Kang and Shao Khan dying easily and something about a dragon king. Now I hear that Liu Kang is back. Midway should just give up the rights to Scorpion, Johnny Cage and Kano to Namco. That'd be sweet.

Namco's no different. Raphael should have the Soul Edge now but fans scream "Nightmare!" and that's what they get... 3 games in a row. And Heihachi should have died for real and stayed dead. Nobody's gonna miss him. Either he's gonna die or he'll become immortal and that'd suck.

Capcom sucks at character designs(Street Fighter characters that is).

[Ultima]

Rioting Soul:

> Capcom sucks at character designs(Street Fighter characters that is).

Get off my internet.

[Rioting Soul]

Tell me. In your opinion what are the redeeming qualities of Street Fighter's characters other than nostalgia?

[bbq sauce]

-What are your specific beefs with any FG story you've been keeping any tabs on?
the SF Alpha transition to SF2. Bison dies at the end of A3, and is back in SF2.

IIRC, the official statement from Capcom was some shit like "He had a new body created for him, and they trnasferred his soul into it".

Smh.

[Spectre General]

Fighting Game RPG

I've thought of this before, eventually it will happen, and as long as some company who doesn't suck makes it, it will be awesome. (BTW Shenmue doesn't count.)

For best story I'll have to echo everyone else and say Rival Schools/Project Justice, etc. It's one of the many reasons those games are good.

For worst story I'd have to say games that can't keep it straight (MK, SF) or perhaps Virtua Fighter, which has generic story™. Ultra Corporation - holds tournament - collects fighter data - makes end boss - the end (At least I THINK that's what VFs story is, maybe I just made it up because it doesn't have one at all.) Even Killer Instinct's is slightly better: Ultra Corporation - holds tournament - collects fighter data - makes Fulgore, and summons a demon - the end.

Beefs

Heihachi (and the rest of the damn Mishima/Kazama family) is still alive.

Cammy's Delta Red story is way better than that retarded Bison doll crap, (and her costume is hotter too.) But Alpha's story doesn't make sense anyway, and there will never be a SF 4 so I guess it doesn't really matter.

Should fighters focus on story?

I say yes, even though there's not much to Guilty Gear's they at least have a concept for each character and a story that makes sense (and to MK's credit they at least TRY.) Some fighters seem to think that there's nothing more to a game than "dur-hur PUNCH-KICK!!" And although I'll play those games, having a story adds flavor that matters.

[Wellman]

I agree Project Justice/Rival Schools had one of best recent stories in a fighting game. Although the 3D Samurai Shodown games and the first two had pretty good storylines.

Personally I think Tekken and SC started out with great stories but have since deteriorated. Tekken dropped the ball at Tekken 4, and I feel like SC did at the end of SC2. The storylines that carried over from the first three Tekkens were great and for the most part definately unexpected. Soul Edge's story to Soul Calibur was fucking insanely good. SC2 was a bit of dissapointment, with to many Soul Edge pieces and shit, and if Rapheal doesn't have Soul Edge in SC3, I will scream bullshit. Especially if they bring back both Nightmare and Siegfried. Although they are still light years ahead of MK's random bullshit.

[jae hoon]

Do I think FG should apply more to storyline, No.

People dont play them for the storyline, its maybe cliche but its the truth.

[Ry Guy]

Sadly, that isn't entirely true. Many people care more about what Ash Crimson's up to than if KOF XI's new changes will negatively affect the game engine or not.

[Hcparker]

Capcom has actually done a very good job of maintaining, expanding and dealing with their storylines.

The problem is Capcom of America hasn't done a very good job of PRESENTING the storylines.

And sorry but KOF's storyline is far from the best, especially if you consider the fact the AOF characters essentially had to be frozen in time for them to even be compactible with KOF. Not to mention the relative ridiculous-ness of 20+ characters vs. some minor boss type character.

[Ultima]

It's easier to treat the AoF/FF timeline as being separate to the KoF timeline. Once you take out the FF/AoF factor, it's not that bad (though the characters with frozen ages is somewhat ridiclous).

[axeman61]

Well, fighting games are a narrow concept and I think that maybe more story could add to them.
I personally think all Story and Arcade modes should be like or be modeled after Tekken 5. That's one thing I loved about T5: the arcade mode was kind of like an actual arcade.
But put more into the story mode, and don't make it obligatory for some secrets. Make alternatives for secrets like extra characters and whatnot.

[Rioting Soul]

Do I think FG should apply more to storyline, No.

People dont play them for the storyline, its maybe cliche but its the truth.

Applying more to storyline wouldn't hurt the deepness of the gamelay at all. The only reason we are content with console ports having this poor storytelling is because we were trained to accept it. If the story for SF2 was actually played out in the game then we wouldn't tolerate any less in T5. The ppl that don't play fighters for the story will buy the game regardless if the gameplay is good. But those that like good stories will play and maybe, find that they like the gameplay and become more than a casual player. There's no loss when it comes to this except the port releasing later. If fighting game's stories were better told then maybe fighters would start getting 10 scores from reviewers and mainstream success(more fighters). I can only imagine that one would not want fighting games with better written/told stories because they feel that developers would then be lax with the actual gameplay and not loke test as much.

[Wellman]

Capcom only has problems in stories when you look at the fact that often they don't actually expand on certain things. Most of their first games don't have storylines until in the second game. This proved to suck in SF3 because it felt like the story wasn't finished. In Alpha the story while good, basically makes SF2 story unnecessary, except for the 'save' where it is hinted that Bison hijacked Rose's body and made a weaker clone for the SF2 tournament. Which doesn't explain why Sagat is still on his side.

[Hcparker]

Capcom only has problems in stories when you look at the fact that often they don't actually expand on certain things. Most of their first games don't have storylines until in the second game. This proved to suck in SF3 because it felt like the story wasn't finished. In Alpha the story while good, basically makes SF2 story unnecessary, except for the 'save' where it is hinted that Bison hijacked Rose's body and made a weaker clone for the SF2 tournament. Which doesn't explain why Sagat is still on his side.

In the cases of The Alphas and SF3 series both the first game in each were released unfinished so A2 and 2I basically are completed versions of each game.

The SF2 story is still neccessary because for a few reasons. One it offs Bison and ends his, Guile's, Cammy's T.Hawk's, Vega's and Balrog's stories. It also ends Chunli's main story but not her overall character shown by 3S. Akuma's appearance is also important as it establishes him as the top fighter in the world at this point.

Sagat is not on Bison's side in SSF2T, he's merely the second to last fighter before Bison. A position he holds most likely do to his being the previous WW tournament holder.

[jae hoon]

Applying more to storyline wouldn't hurt the deepness of the gamelay at all. The only reason we are content with console ports having this poor storytelling is because we were trained to accept it. If the story for SF2 was actually played out in the game then we wouldn't tolerate any less in T5. The ppl that don't play fighters for the story will buy the game regardless if the gameplay is good. But those that like good stories will play and maybe, find that they like the gameplay and become more than a casual player. There's no loss when it comes to this except the port releasing later. If fighting game's stories were better told then maybe fighters would start getting 10 scores from reviewers and mainstream success(more fighters). I can only imagine that one would not want fighting games with better written/told stories because they feel that developers would then be lax with the actual gameplay and not loke test as much.


Actually no most people buy the game if they think it is good ie the gameplay not if they think the story is good. SRK should be proof enough of that, maybe 10 to 15 percent of the people who buy fighting games buy it for the story. They either buy it because they think its fun to play or they recongnize the name and pick it up.

[axeman61]

That's true, but more story still couldn't hurt as long as it's extraneous. I would be willing to accept real time demos like in mid-story T5 now that games are where they are graphically, and so would a lot of people. It shouldn't be that hard. I would take comics, pictures, whatever. As long as you add more.
Although I sound desperate, I'm just easily impressed when I see that more is put into a game to give a better experience. For me it's storywise since I'm okay with the state of gameplay in games. For you guys it would be in gameplay since you don't seem to care about story.
One request is to not have it like MKD's conquest mode. I want each character to have their own little story and I don't want to be obligated to go through a story mode to unlock the secrets of a game.

[Wellman]

In the cases of The Alphas and SF3 series both the first game in each were released unfinished so A2 and 2I basically are completed versions of each game.

The SF2 story is still neccessary because for a few reasons. One it offs Bison and ends his, Guile's, Cammy's T.Hawk's, Vega's and Balrog's stories. It also ends Chunli's main story but not her overall character shown by 3S. Akuma's appearance is also important as it establishes him as the top fighter in the world at this point.

Sagat is not on Bison's side in SSF2T, he's merely the second to last fighter before Bison. A position he holds most likely do to his being the previous WW tournament holder.

Yeah, but I think the same thing happened with Darkstalkers. Since wasn't the second game meant to be a remake of the story in the first game with added characters and details to the story?

And as for SF2, after Alpha it actually probably cause more problems for the story than anything else. Even if Sagat is meant to be the second to last boss, in SF2 he still is supposed to have the Ryu grudge he supposedly got over in the Alpha games. Really the only thing SF2 brought a conclusion to either Chun Li or Guile's story and everything else didn't matter after Alpha gave everyone their own little story. Capcom basically admits this in later SF3 games and things not really mentioning the SF2 story all that much.

[Black Sakazaki]

All FG stories start of well(AOF,KOF,SF,Tekken,etc),but for some reason it always turns to crap ,example- KOF.

[Hcparker]

Yeah, but I think the same thing happened with Darkstalkers. Since wasn't the second game meant to be a remake of the story in the first game with added characters and details to the story?

And as for SF2, after Alpha it actually probably cause more problems for the story than anything else. Even if Sagat is meant to be the second to last boss, in SF2 he still is supposed to have the Ryu grudge he supposedly got over in the Alpha games. Really the only thing SF2 brought a conclusion to either Chun Li or Guile's story and everything else didn't matter after Alpha gave everyone their own little story. Capcom basically admits this in later SF3 games and things not really mentioning the SF2 story all that much.

If Darkstalkers 2 officially replaces Darkstalkers 1 than yes. As is I don't recall Capcom stating as such. They have however, stated as such with A2 replacing A1, 2I replacing NG and even SSF2TX replacing previous versions.

Sagat got over his grudge in A3 after he saw what Bison did to Ryu and at the same time basically left Bison's service for good. As per the latest versions, he no longer bears any ill will towards Ryu and is anxiously training and awaiting their rematch.

The second tournament basically ends Bison's story arc and all that goes with it. That arc began in A2 and spanned three games so it's quite impressive actually.
I would suggest you play Revival although the anniversary pack may update the storyline to be current now.

[Rioting Soul]

Actually no most people buy the game if they think it is good ie the gameplay not if they think the story is good. SRK should be proof enough of that, maybe 10 to 15 percent of the people who buy fighting games buy it for the story. They either buy it because they think its fun to play or they recongnize the name and pick it up.

I wasn't stating the contrary to the underlined text. But after thinking about it I'll disagree. You are right, the current fighting game user base buys fighters if they think the gameplay is good. But don't you see that the base for fighters is relatively small? There is a reason that not that many ppl are buying fighters. Gameplay tweaks aren't gonna put fighters back on SF2/MK1-2 level popularity. Tekken 4 to Tekken 5 is regarded by most reviewers as "minor changes".

Look at RPGs. Without the well-told stories(or told stories at all), who would put up with the monotounus micromanagement of characters you know nothing about and random encounters with turn-based combat? The hardcore and that's it. And while the gameplay of fighters is not that monotounous(in our POV at least), fighting games would benefit from better stories. Fighting games would get a boom in sales if they equalled the best offline RPGs' stories. If fighting games had better-told stories(better cutscenes, character emotions etc.) then fighters would be more than a genre for the hardcore, exactly what happened with RPGs when FFVII debuted. As it is right now fighting games are failing so we know gameplay isn't the thing that's gonna put the genre above "dying". SquareEnix-quality cutscenes and story-telling will dramatically increase the mainstream following and while SRK does not like scrubs it will help us in the long run.

[thedude.com]

Project Justice/Rival Schools/Justice Gakuen for the win.

even though rival schools is so anime , in fact is my anti-depressant .

eventhough it had pethatic gameplay , i still keep on playing it , i just love the cast ...

[thedude.com]

Do I think FG should apply more to storyline, No.

People dont play them for the storyline, its maybe cliche but its the truth.


seriously , you know why a fighting game became popular ...

because 70% of them liked the game is because of the designs and the storyline ... and every characters' personality ...

30% is because of the good level of game play .

you know that i saw bunch of anime fangirls/boys gathered around playing ggxx and rumblefish2 , they're gameplay level is horrid .

[OrangeCat]

I wasn't stating the contrary to the underlined text. But after thinking about it I'll disagree. You are right, the current fighting game user base buys fighters if they think the gameplay is good. But don't you see that the base for fighters is relatively small? There is a reason that not that many ppl are buying fighters. Gameplay tweaks aren't gonna put fighters back on SF2/MK1-2 level popularity. Tekken 4 to Tekken 5 is regarded by most reviewers as "minor changes".

Look at RPGs. Without the well-told stories(or told stories at all), who would put up with the monotounus micromanagement of characters you know nothing about and random encounters with turn-based combat? The hardcore and that's it. And while the gameplay of fighters is not that monotounous(in our POV at least), fighting games would benefit from better stories. Fighting games would get a boom in sales if they equalled the best offline RPGs' stories. If fighting games had better-told stories(better cutscenes, character emotions etc.) then fighters would be more than a genre for the hardcore, exactly what happened with RPGs when FFVII debuted. As it is right now fighting games are failing so we know gameplay isn't the thing that's gonna put the genre above "dying". SquareEnix-quality cutscenes and story-telling will dramatically increase the mainstream following and while SRK does not like scrubs it will help us in the long run.

But that's the problem with comparing fighters to RPGs. Ultimately, it will come back to just a limited scope of fighting characters fighting each other with moves and combos that the player themselves have to learn the game. RPGs at least has changing scenary, conditions and actually advances the more you play. In fighters, you only advance as far as you WANT to. And when you encounter some bullshit AI boss, you can't exactly LEVEL UP and beat them later, you yourself have to improve, or find some other bullshit tatic to beat his ass.

With the whole RPG thing, I think that pre FF7, rpgs in general had good story telling. It's just that FF7 was the first game to have a marketing campaign outside of advertising on WWF power hour, or some kids channels. They marketed that shit like a fucking movie, like it was Jesus' second coming.

Sure if we implemented the cut scenes, for every permutation of a character intro for any other character intro...people might buy to play it. Sure, playing through everyone's storyline would probably equal the time investment for an RPG. But ultimately, all it will be is a dressed up fighter.

But perhaps that is what we need. We need sales to be produced in order to support fighting games in general. We need a shit fighter to come out but is impressive enough to warrant making another one down the road that will later be better. Much like how MK:A came out with a tetris like game, a fucking RPG mode and shit like that. Hell even MK Chess.

But I'm not saying it can't be done, but it might be futile in the end because as much as the CG might be a cause for entertainment, but in the end the gameplay will catch up.

OC

[Rioting Soul]

But that's the problem with comparing fighters to RPGs. Ultimately, it will come back to just a limited scope of fighting characters fighting each other with moves and combos that the player themselves have to learn the game. RPGs at least has changing scenary, conditions and actually advances the more you play. In fighters, you only advance as far as you WANT to. And when you encounter some bullshit AI boss, you can't exactly LEVEL UP and beat them later, you yourself have to improve, or find some other bullshit tatic to beat his ass.

Well the story mode could also be a kumite-ish mode where the difficulty of the AI could not be set by the player and the setting rises as the player goes on. The higher levels of difficulty would have AI that actually have strategy and go for custom combos. The console version could actually teach the kind of stuff you have to go to SRK for(if the developers were alittle more in touch with the hardcore). The leveling up of fighting game characters could truly represent the player's skill. The game could keep record of the player's execution/defense/tact/offense/etc. and if the player lost in story mode then the opponent could give [constructive/insulting] criticism regarding the player's weaknesses. But I'm getting carried away.

With the whole RPG thing, I think that pre FF7, rpgs in general had good story telling. It's just that FF7 was the first game to have a marketing campaign outside of advertising on WWF power hour, or some kids channels. They marketed that shit like a fucking movie, like it was Jesus' second coming.

I don't deny that pre-FF7 rpgs had well told stories. But until FF7 you couldn't visualize the emotion. Like how some people prefer to watch an animated medium over reading a book. FF7 was marketed like that because it had the shiny cover that mainstreamers like so much. You know FF6 wouldn't have been accepted in commercials(in America at least).

Sure if we implemented the cut scenes, for every permutation of a character intro for any other character intro...people might buy to play it. Sure, playing through everyone's storyline would probably equal the time investment for an RPG. But ultimately, all it will be is a dressed up fighter.

Yeah, it'd just be a fighter with candy coating. But if the gameplay is also good then no worries right? The worst this would do is spawn clones from other developers and ppl will soon get tired of them and the good ones will pull through. If I have to wait until 2008 for SF4 then it damn well better be epic.

[jae hoon]

seriously , you know why a fighting game became popular ...

because 70% of them liked the game is because of the designs and the storyline ... and every characters' personality ...

30% is because of the good level of game play .

you know that i saw bunch of anime fangirls/boys gathered around playing ggxx and rumblefish2 , they're gameplay level is horrid .


Fighting games became popular because they say fireball and supers and weird things like that they hadnt seen before. Not because Ryu beat up so and so.

GGXX is kind of a bad example as it gets hardly no play at all. Those guys dont really play it for the storyline either, they play it to try to think of there next hentai fantasy and then post about it on Gaia.

[thedude.com]

Fighting games became popular because they say fireball and supers and weird things like that they hadnt seen before. Not because Ryu beat up so and so.

GGXX is kind of a bad example as it gets hardly no play at all. Those guys dont really play it for the storyline either, they play it to try to think of there next hentai fantasy and then post about it on Gaia.

oh ok... chicke combo XD XD ! more weird stuff and combo , more people want to XCOPY >_> ...sigh ..


about ggxx which you are saying ..
sounds logical , yeah is true . about ggxx scene , sooner or later they hardly play GGXX , they're no longer gonna play may or bridget in the game , but just got to have them in their forum sigs :rofl:, because they got owned by sol and eddie sso hard. yeah man i've gone to an anime forum where hippies in there curse and swear on sol users ... and replied perfectly like a noob .

sigh ... what about rival school ???

[jae hoon]

oh ok... chicke combo XD XD ! more weird stuff and combo , more people want to XCOPY >_> ...sigh ..


about ggxx which you are saying ..
sounds logical , yeah is true . about ggxx scene , sooner or later they hardly play GGXX , they're no longer gonna play may or bridget in the game , but just got to have them in their forum sigs :rofl:, because they got owned by sol and eddie sso hard. yeah man i've gone to an anime forum where hippies in there curse and swear on sol users ... and replied perfectly like a noob .

sigh ... what about rival school ???


I like Rival Schools, Hinata owns you for free lol. Mainstream doesnt know about it though. The only games that get kinda followed storyline wise are Guilty Gear and thats mostly for Yaoi/Hentai fanfics and KOF which is almost the same. Difference being alot of the hardcore KOF players actually try to pay attention to the storyline. IMO most of there storylines arent actually that good to begin with, Garou is probably the only SNK fighter with a decent storyline. If you look at the best selling fighting games the last 5 years or so you can see that storyline is not that much of a selling point.

DOA - Really no storyline whatsoever, alot of hentai fantasies.
SFAE - Actually hit top 10 list and was there for awhile, 3S has a story but no one pays attention to it.
CvS2/MvC2 - No comment needed
SC 2 - Actually has a decent storyline to it but no one knows or cares about it. It gets played because it looked cool.
Tekken Series - Storyline is kinda shitty to be honest mostly gets played because people think its newb friendly at first.

[OrangeCat]

Well the story mode could also be a kumite-ish mode where the difficulty of the AI could not be set by the player and the setting rises as the player goes on. The higher levels of difficulty would have AI that actually have strategy and go for custom combos. The console version could actually teach the kind of stuff you have to go to SRK for(if the developers were alittle more in touch with the hardcore). The leveling up of fighting game characters could truly represent the player's skill. The game could keep record of the player's execution/defense/tact/offense/etc. and if the player lost in story mode then the opponent could give [constructive/insulting] criticism regarding the player's weaknesses. But I'm getting carried away.

That's another problem that comes up. The thing is only the basics are taught and AFAIK, the only really comphensive tutorial for a fighting game was SFEX, that being goals they required for you to finish in order to get extras and some semblance of being able to do some advanced techniques.

I'm not doubting the ability of programmers to program that stuff in. In fact I'm all for it. But since the beginning of time, it's players who found the innovation in games in how to play them/how to exploit them. I mean it's not like the game is going to stop and say "Ha ha ha, you're AHVB timing is off!" or "Roll cancelling is garbage to me" when tactics such as those are discovered post release. It's not like the CPU AI will find out that you can link this move to this move and so far.

But ultimately, it might be just me being pessimistic on the intelligence of the average gamer, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't get it to drink. Even if the computer can teach the person to do it, it's up to the player to adopt it. And fighters have one of the more misunderstood learning curves ever because of gamer mentality, not because the game is difficult to learn. I mean a player can hack and Slash in DMC and learn patterns, but if they tried the same shit in fighters, they'd sooner get frustrated at the lack of advancement than put their mind to finishing the damn thing.

Yeah, it'd just be a fighter with candy coating. But if the gameplay is also good then no worries right? The worst this would do is spawn clones from other developers and ppl will soon get tired of them and the good ones will pull through. If I have to wait until 2008 for SF4 then it damn well better be epic.

The thing is, there's really one person to lead the way for fighters in that direction. I mean if I'm a start up company, or an already existing company what's going to be my pitch? "We are going to make the most interactive intense fighter ever. We are going to have HOURS of cut scenes alone etc. etc. We will have programmable AI, AI that REALLY LEARNS and even taunts you, teaches you, whatever etc.". All execs are going to look at are numbers from games who had that same concept, see it's failing numbers...*not* imagine it's due to it's shitty/buggy gameplay but instead thinking the market is dead for fighters and then pass it on.

I mean a fighter is a huge investment it seeems. I mean it seems for many games, it takes at least a 2nd or 3rd try to make a game worthwhile to play/balanced...if you get that far enough to rerelease an already existing game. And half the time, it's lucky that it self balances.

All I'm saying that when it comes to the end of the day, unlike RPGs, side scrollers, or even adventure games; fighters will always boil down to gameplay and the gamers ability to play that game. It doesn't help that some button movements are an eye-coordination NIGHTMARE for people to remember, let alone produce consistently. Hell, it doesn't help that FPS's who boast probably an equal amount of actions compared to a fighter (if not less), simplifies the damn thing by pressing one button to produce a cool action.

I'm not saying that I won't mind the whole thing to be produced. I would love to see a fighter get the FUCKING WORKS the same way a Final Fantasy game would get. I'm tired of suffering through mediocrity while the only appeal is to the hardcore.

OC

[Ultima]

HCparker:

I thought Vampire Hunter did officially replace Vampire?

[Hcparker]

HCparker:

I thought Vampire Hunter did officially replace Vampire?

If you say so. I don't have a copy of AAC and I don't read Kanji so you probably right.

[Agmaster]

GG sucked, the only reason I picked up GGX was the storyline and art. Same reason I don't play MVC or CVS or SVC. I think way too much to just ignore the storyline. *shrug* It would not be that hard to have two main teams on a fighting game...engine side...story side. After all, not everyone is good at fighting games. Making or playing.

[OrangeCat]

GG sucked, the only reason I picked up GGX was the storyline and art. Same reason I don't play MVC or CVS or SVC. I think way too much to just ignore the storyline. *shrug* It would not be that hard to have two main teams on a fighting game...engine side...story side. After all, not everyone is good at fighting games. Making or playing.
I'm just wondering. What made you find out about GGX's storyline? Like what convinced you to go out and buy it for the storyline and art? Because afterall, it seems to me that you should have some interest in fighting games in general, at least enough to know that GGX does have a storyline to being with.

OC

[axeman61]

GGXX- way better than GGX.