Tentative Tekken 5.1 changes

[jae hoon]

http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=81498

According to this they are indeed nerfing characters. I can see the difference in the wall game and the blocking while in tech roll coming into play.

Slated release in Japan for Tekken 5.1 is the first week of July. No word yet on an American release if any.

Special thanks to DUK2000 for providing some of this early information. This is unconfirmed info as of yet, so take it lightly. We'll find out the truth as it arises. Disscuss the changes here. Top post will be updated as more information is added.

Cosmetic changes. You can now see 5.1 sported in the T5 logo. Also lifebars have different colors now.

Big changes with things in the system. You can now fully block while in tech roll state. Sucks for tech catches. But it adds more to the mid/low/throw mixup.

Ground moves do only about 70% damage as opposed to 100% and possible CH damage before.

Wall system has changed slightly. Here's some character exclusive information that has been changed.

Nina Williams
- u/f+1 can not be used in longer juggles now, the speed of the move has been decreased.
- u/f+1 is also techable when used in juggles.
- d,d/b+3 is no longer safe
- JF spider knee with Nina is no longer safe.
- d/f+1,2 has delay on both hit and block.

Steve Fox
- d/f+2 does not launch.
- Infinites are gone.
- CH ALB 2 does not stun.
- b+1~B FLK b_f+2 is gone.
- CH 1,2,1,2, and 2,1,2 no longer launch.
- 1,2,1 and 2,1 into FLK~ALB is gone.
- Juggles after d/f+1+2 hits close are no longer possible.

Bryan Fury
- b+1 does not launch on normal hit.
+ CH WS+3 stun can not be escaped.
+/- 1+3+4 taunt and f,b+2 punch remain the same.
- f,f+2 has more delay.
- 1,2,4 has more delay.
- <wall> 1,2,1, d/f+3 catch no longer works.

Devil Jin
+ TGF used in juggles can now be linked to TGF~U/F for the extra move like when TGF~U/F hits standing opponents.
+ Devil Jin seems to be the best as of now. Not that many changes.

Feng Wei
- b+1 is now -10 on block.
- SS+4 has more delays on block.
- qcf+3_WS+3 has more delays on block.
- d/b+3 on CH no longer trips.
- d/b+1+2,1 has more delays between the two hits.

King
+ f+4 on normal hit can cause wall stun. On CH causes opponent to fall down.

Yoshimitsu
+ 4~3 has less delays on block.
- after f+3+4 hits, d/b+3 is no longer gauranteed.

Lei Wulong
+ f,f+2 has less delays on block.
+ f,f+4 on hit gaurantees the 3+4 followup.
- No more auto parry in TGR stance.

Ling Xiaoyu
+ From RND punch parry, damage has been increased and now juggles.
+ RND 1 makes opponent fall.

Kazuya Mishima
- After CH d/f+2 no more full EWGF launch but you can still do regular juggles.
+/- WS+2 stun can not be escaped, but the stun effect is that of CH d/f+2.
+ d/b+3 has less delay on block and knocks down on CH.

Kuma
+ f+1+2 on block has less delays.
+ f,f+2 is completely safe.

Wang
+ d+4,1 has more delay on block.
- 1,1,1 is worse on block than before(doesn't push back as far).
- d/f+1+3+4 on block puts Wang at disadvantage.

Hwoarang
- d/b+4 has more delay on hit.

Marshall Law
- CH qcf+1,2,1,2 does not launch anymore.
- CH d/b+3 does not juggle anymore.

Craig Marduk
- d+1 does not have as much advantage on hit/block anymore.
- d+4 is -3 on hit.

Jack-5
+ u/f+1+2 = d,D/F+2 link throw escape glitch is gone. No more universal easy escape.
+ d/b+2 crushes high moves easier now.

Jin Kazama
+ d/f+3 on CH stuns and d+3+4 will full launch afterwards.
- Nothing gauranteed after 2,4 anymore.

Heihachi Mishima
- 2,2,1 does not connect like it does now.
+ f+1+2 damage increased

Asuka Kazama
+ After f+2~d cancel you can input an extra move 3+4.
- f+3 on block is even on frames.
- d/b+4 crouching status after move is performed has changed.

Baek Doo San
+/- Punch Parry window is larger but you get less advantage from a successful parry.
+ CH b,b+2 causes an unescapable stun.

Christie Montiero
+ d/f+1,1 recovery increased on block. -4.
+/- b+4 knocks down and can not be tech rolled after side/back hit.
- 1:3~4 is gone.
+/- d/b+1+2 crouching status is gone, recover has been increased though.

Julia Chang
+ Recover on standing 4 has been increased making CH 4, into f,f+1 juggles easier.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Wang
+ d+4,1 has more delay on block.
- 1,1,1 is worse on block than before(doesn't push back as far).
- d/f+1+3+4 on block puts Wang at disadvantage.


Un-FUCKING-necessary

[FullMetalRoss]

yeah that is exactly what I was thinking, I hope those aren't true.

[jae hoon]

I dont even see why alot of them are even necessary to be honest.

[Rave]

Lei Wulong
- No more auto parry in TGR stance.

What...WHAT?
That can't be true, that's just retarded. Like he needed to lose that.

[TrueSephiroth]

Well, if those are true, Steve, Nina, and Bryan won't be such whores anymore. I'd wished they'd let Jin hit mid with his WGF, since it doesn't launch, but oh well, maybe even tweak the damn sidestepping too so it aint so damn shitty.

[PozerWolf]

My poor steve lost his best launcher :sad:

[Rioting Soul]

Bryan: ff+2 has more startup? So basically we have a high attack that was already slow enough to be ducked early, is punished badly on whiff, that is now even slower to start up? And does this kill juggles for Bryan or are they gonna make it so that 3,3,4 is a reliable juggle-ender now?

Bruce: I'm sure they won't forget to make his 1,2 a natural combo like everyone else. And a faster mid out of his CD would be nice. C'mon safe offensive laucher.

[Sanchez]

Bryan Fury
- b+1 does not launch on normal hit.

What the poo? It's hard to wrap my brain around this.

I think delay on his f,f+2 refers to its recovery.

[TrueSephiroth]

My poor steve lost his best launcher :sad:

I'm glad, that shit was annoying.

[Rioting Soul]

Bryan Fury
- b+1 does not launch on normal hit.

What the poo? It's hard to wrap my brain around this. I think delay on his f,f+2 refers to its recovery.

Ok. So, what does ff+2 having more recovery change other than the chances of comboing bb+4 afterwards? Unless the recovery is going to be HUGE then the push-back on block should still make it safe. ff+2 already had enough whiff recovery for opponents to launch. If bb+4 is no-longer a follow up then ff+2 has more risk than reward.

I'm OK with b+1 though, as long as it is still as safe as it was on block. They better not make it unsafe on hit.

[Sliced]

I'd wished they'd let Jin hit mid with his WGF His CD+1 is a great mid launcher. Why would you want another?

[TheDarkPhoenix]

tekken just got worst

[JamMasterJom]

stop bitching everyone

just realize its better than what we have now

THANK GOD.

[HaiDuongRiceMan]

WTF @ B+1 not launching anymore. Hopefully it knocks them to the ground so I can get a df+3 or something.


Oh yeah, Co-sign on the Wang nerfing. WTF. Screw this update...

[Sanchez]

I seriously see no reason to alter f,f+2. The b,b+4 isn't even guaranteed.

At least they gave him and inescapable stun off his WS3.

[shadowcharlie]

this is kindah weird o_O

[JamMasterJom]

wang is hella good

dont complain, its not like they made his 1,1,1 12 frames or something now

you just have to be smarter about it

and they want you to use df+1+3+4 as a tc apparently instead of a tech catch/block setup

and btw ff+2, bb+4 WAS guaranteed. you just had to do it right.

[SiLLiEMutAfuKA]

Wow...my poor Steve.

Do you guys think this will be played instead of T5? Cause I seriously don't think so.

[JamMasterJom]

these 2 games will be hella far apart when it comes to actual gameplay

ill be playing this over t5 though, cause t5 sucks.

[Zigmover21]

I seriously see no reason to alter f,f+2. The b,b+4 isn't even guaranteed.

You're right, it's not. You can tech and eat ANOTHER ff+2 instead. :rolleyes:

Let's be honest, it was a hella stupid combo. 50+ damage with no effort involved.

WTF @ B+1 not launching anymore. Hopefully it knocks them to the ground so I can get a df+3 or something.

I'm so sorry Bryan lost a launcher than gave him fucking ADVANTAGE on block. :tdown:

What pisses ME off is Craig's d+4 being -3 on hit. Are you fucking kidding me? It wasn't good enough as-is, being -16 on block. Now it's horribly punishable AND the reward is less. Combined with a weaker d+1, and they probably gave him the worse possible changes I can think of.

[Sanchez]

and btw ff+2, bb+4 WAS guaranteed. you just had to do it right.

So the right input would even catch the spring back recover? Good to know. Thanks.

[Zigmover21]

So the right input would even catch the spring back recover? Good to know. Thanks.

You do know that spring recovery is extremely easy to punish on reaction, right? Hell, you make it worse for yourself if you tech ff+2.

In light of all these changes, baring other additions we don't know about yet (which there are, reportedly including new moves), it seems the Mishimas get bumped up a notch. Devil Jin is an obvious choice for #1 so far, as he apparently didn't lose SQUAT, Kaz got a little buffer, and Hei lost 2,2,1 BS but is otherwise the same.

[jae hoon]

You do know that spring recovery is extremely easy to punish on reaction, right? Hell, you make it worse for yourself if you tech ff+2.

In light of all these changes, baring other additions we don't know about yet (which there are, reportedly including new moves), it seems the Mishimas get bumped up a notch. Devil Jin is an obvious choice for #1 so far, as he apparently didn't lose SQUAT, Kaz got a little buffer, and Hei lost 2,2,1 BS but is otherwise the same.


Depending on how the wall mechanics will work imo Anna is a possible top tier candidate now, barring further changes.

Personally I dont see it being any more balanced then it is now.

[cygnus]

Wow, they are actually redesigning the game, instead of making miniscule changes.

Marduk d+4 -3 on hit doesn't bother me, what bothers me is if they don't change it's recovery on block. It should really only be -11.

And anyone complaining about changes you find wierd (like Lei's auto parry), just calm down and wait it out. We still don't know everything that was gained/lost. This is Namco's baby, and sometimes things get changed because the designer simply doesn't like how something works. Keep your pants on and wait for the final/confirmed changes to start complaining.

I just can't believe they nerfed the lifebar colors. :tup:

[Rioting Soul]

Let's be honest, it was a hella stupid combo. 50+ damage with no effort involved.

Given that the execution of the combo was effortless, I still say the risk/reward was balanced. If you could get ff+2 to hit then the resulting damage was well deserved. The damage from ff+2 alone is not going to persuade a player to use it in situations other than juggles and wall hits. Unless they are going to give ff+2 a fast mid-hitting follow-up to deter crouchers(and I know this is a pipe dream).

[JamMasterJom]

you see, the problem is, ff+2 was used as a punisher.

a fast, nearly 50% punisher.

[Devil X]

jack 5 will be even more of a terror now that his two worst fights (nina/bryan) just got better for him.

[Superking]

But the real question is, is Kuma still shit tier? :rofl:

Anyway good thing I skipped out on T5, here's hoping the arcades in my area upgrade to 5.1 so I can check this out.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Update on Lee(check the TZ thread)

Apparantly CH d+3~4 HMS 4 is guaranteed. Fuck Silver Tail.

All I need is for Bruce 1,2 to get fixed, and Wang to be a little safer with SOMETHING, and I'll be happy

[TF zer0]

Good Heihachi's changes are minimal. he is still a deadly weapon.

[JamMasterJom]

Update on Lee(check the TZ thread)

Apparantly CH d+3~4 HMS 4 is guaranteed. Fuck Silver Tail.

All I need is for Bruce 1,2 to get fixed, and Wang to be a little safer with SOMETHING, and I'll be happy

why do you need bruce to have a normal 1,2?

dont you have 1,1,2 guaranteed with him?

[Ouroborus]

this is fuckin stupid. devil jin gets even better while everyone gets weakened? last time i heard, devil jins were owning everyone up in korea.

[DeAdSpAcE]

I'm just glad that steve is getting nerfed. The other characters...now that's entirely something else....and I don't see why Lei should get toned...wtf is there to tone? He's not as great as he used to be to begin with...

[Saotome Kaneda]

why do you need bruce to have a normal 1,2?

dont you have 1,1,2 guaranteed with him?
What's the adv on block for 1,1,2? I never bothered with it before since 1,2,whatever is IMO better, mindgame-wise...

[Sliced]

dont you have 1,1,2 guaranteed with him?1,1 does not combo
on the other hand, (1),1,2,1 combos, regardless of CH or not

[Ryu1999]

this is fuckin stupid. devil jin gets even better while everyone gets weakened? last time i heard, devil jins were owning everyone up in korea.

I asked this on the TZ thread as well, but...what were you going to weaken? Is there anything blatantly stupid that Devil Jin has compared to the top 4 had and NEEDED to be removed (i.e. safe, fast, juggling steve df+2)? I guess you'd have a case for b+1~df+2, but other than that...unless Namco wanted to pull a Craig on him and weaken him for no reason at all..

[JamMasterJom]

oh, damn, didnt know that

(to sliced ofcourse)

[Sliced]

I asked this on the TZ thread as well, but...what were you going to weaken?
make b+1 -10 instead of -2 on block as it is now

that'd be fair enough

[Ryu1999]

make b+1 -10 instead of -2 on block as it is now

that'd be fair enough

Isn't that a little harsh for a slow (17f) move with little range? Anyhow, that does sound like a fair change, but that would simply make people commit to the CD more often. I've yet to see in any of the Korean tourney vids people stop at the b+1, instead they still go for df+2 or df,uf+3 followup

[Rioting Soul]

Yeah, ff+2 is/was a punisher. But what use is a high-hitting 30 dmg punisher with no guaranteed follow up or even possible mixups afterwards? Why punish with a ff+2(30 dmg, no bb+4 combo) when you can just juggle for way more damage?

Bruce's f+1+2, ff+3 isn't unbalanced so I don't see how Bryan's ff+2, bb+4 is. If Bruce's ff+3 didn't connect then f+1+2 would be useless. I'm not sweating it but I'm just saying, they are toning down the wrong things about some ppl.

[JamMasterJom]

i guess youre forgetting the insane range ff+2 has

and noone said you wouldnt get mixups or anything off of it, so you never know

[Higher-Jin]

Unless it has new characters I don't see people playing it either that or if you can somehow replace all the current t5's with the new one

[JamMasterJom]

there is like literally no reason to keep playing the t5 we have now

[Sliced]

Rumor has it, two new characters will be released...lol

[GuileMike]

no shit

wtf is namco thinking

[bill_rizer]

i dont play tekken, but why are namco releasing this so soon?
The only thing i can see happeneing is that it will divide u tekken fans on what to play 5 or 5.1
I guess they must have been under pressure to get tekken out and always planned to do these changes anyway.
I cant see any other excuess to releasing an upgrade so soon.

[Rioting Soul]

Bryan's ff+3 has more range, hits mid and does 3 more damage. But, eh you're right there could still be follow ups. But Bruce is who I'm really rooting for. 1,2 NC is the first thing they should have reported. Fast mid CD attack, where are you?

[JamMasterJom]

well okay look

t5 sucks, and is stale, and even the top chars cant stand up to steve

t5.1 raped the top tier chars, and based on no real big changes to the lower tier chars, it couldnt possibly be worse

comprende?

edit: rioting soul, bryans ff+2 is roughly 15 frames all together while ff+3 is like 22 or higher. there is definitely a reason to use ff+2.

[Sanchez]

Looks like a pretty solid update so far. I can't find a reason to keep playing T5 classic once the update gets released.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Yeah, ff+2 is/was a punisher. But what use is a high-hitting 30 dmg punisher with no guaranteed follow up or even possible mixups afterwards? Why punish with a ff+2(30 dmg, no bb+4 combo) when you can just juggle for way more damage?

Bruce's f+1+2, ff+3 isn't unbalanced so I don't see how Bryan's ff+2, bb+4 is. If Bruce's ff+3 didn't connect then f+1+2 would be useless. I'm not sweating it but I'm just saying, they are toning down the wrong things about some ppl.
How far does Bruce's f+1+2 reach? Because half the time I can't even punish whiffed Deathfists with it... If only he had the speed of his new f+1+2 combined with the range of his old animation(ie the Bryan f+1+2)....

[Rioting Soul]

JMJ: Ah, ok.

A console release is needed.

The 2 new characters will be Tetsu-jin and Combot. http://www.fakesource.com

EDIT: Saotome: I'm not sure, it's not a big part of my Bruce game. I think it has alittle more range than Bryan's f+1+2.

[Saotome Kaneda]

EDIT: Saotome: I'm not sure, it's not a big part of my Bruce game. I think it has alittle more range than Bryan's f+1+2.

I'll test it in a few hours.

Oh, and nice little joke. =p I really want Tetsujin, though.


EDIT: Tested. With Bryan, at the start of the round you can backdash once and still hit your opponent from that distance. Bruce's leaves him right in their face if done from the same distance away. The elbow itself doesn't stick out much either. Bryans has mor range due to the longer spin and the fact that the elbow is actually thrusted out for the hit. So yeah, Bruce's f+1+2 is pretty bad. =/

[DeathScythe]

Well, Steve had a nice reign at the top for quite a while. It sucks that he no longer has that DF+2 launcher. Kind of need that too. :*(

Oh well. It could compensate for it if Steve gets new moves which he will. I really need to start practicing again.

Now, would be a little too early to say that we'll have to start over from scratch in order to adjust to this version of T5? I mean, if things are going to be different then theres definitely gonna be some tweaking done in terms of how people play now seeing as how certain moves will be utterly useless like Fengs SS+4(which I need as well DAMNIT!!!).

[TF zer0]

no shit

wtf is namco thinking

Namco better not try to pull off a Crapcom.
(repeatedly release slightly improved games and make us buy them)

[Superking]

Namco better not try to pull off a Crapcom.
(repeatedly release slightly improved games and make us buy them)

Go back to gamefaqs or s-c.com thanks!

[CaJunStRiKE]

Marduk got fucked. :confused:

[Gamer X]

It seems that the strong got weak and the weak got REAL weak. Asuka, Marduk and Kuma got ass raped with no K-Y. As much as I hate Steve thats a real fuck job on him. Nina is still gonna be a beast cause her frame rate won't change. Hei, Julia will remains beast and DJ is even more of a beast. Bryan was alway overrated in tier but with the changes to everybody else he won't be hurt that much.


All in all I think the changes are cool. Yeah we going to hear the bitching and complaining (hey we're fighting game fans, thats what we do) but remember people we haven't played the game yet. History always show when you fix it, you brake something in gaming. Best beleive that some charater is going to be uber strong cause of this patch just wait and see. Than we'll have new stuff to bitch about.

[wassabbi]

JMJ: Ah, ok.

A console release is needed.

The 2 new characters will be Tetsu-jin and Combot. http://www.fakesource.com

EDIT: Saotome: I'm not sure, it's not a big part of my Bruce game. I think it has alittle more range than Bryan's f+1+2.

Combot.... so is Mokujin out or we have 2 "random" Chars now... :lame: or even worst u press start on mokujin and get combot.... pretty lames for 2 "NEW" characters

[Sliced]

Dude, he was joking...check the source link he gave again.

[DarkZero]

I'm very happy with the changes so far except for wang and craig. But now I need to see changes with paul. Maybe better recovery on his moves or something. No doubt I will be playing this new version over T5. And a possible slated release in Japan in July! Thats fucking awesome.

[GTB]

Man steve = raped by many of these changes. No infintes is good and I agree with that but I feel like they just need to make him do less damage imho.

[Ryu1999]

Nina is still gonna be a beast cause her frame rate won't change.

Actually they raped her df+1,2 so her frame advantage abuse is out the window. No more safe divine cannon but it was mostly used as backdash catcher anyway.

[JamMasterJom]

It seems that the strong got weak and the weak got REAL weak. Asuka, Marduk and Kuma got ass raped with no K-Y. As much as I hate Steve thats a real fuck job on him. Nina is still gonna be a beast cause her frame rate won't change. Hei, Julia will remains beast and DJ is even more of a beast. Bryan was alway overrated in tier but with the changes to everybody else he won't be hurt that much.

i dont even understand what half this post is talking about

asuka got raped? why? because f+3 is neutral on block? yeah im sure thats going to ruin your game heavily. kuma got raped? with two pluses? 2 of his moves got way better, and he got raped?

WHAT THE FUCK.

and then we get to julia being a beast?

i just dont know what game youre thinking about.

[Vidness]

I don't plan on playing 5.1 unless I can get it for the home console. And even if then, I am not sure I'm going to pay for it again. I mean, why own the home version if you can't do the same combos at the arcade?

[Zigmover21]

It seems that the strong got weak and the weak got REAL weak. Asuka, Marduk and Kuma got ass raped with no K-Y. As much as I hate Steve thats a real fuck job on him. Nina is still gonna be a beast cause her frame rate won't change. Hei, Julia will remains beast and DJ is even more of a beast. Bryan was alway overrated in tier but with the changes to everybody else he won't be hurt that much.

Wow, what is this ignorance?

Those Asuka changes are minimal. If she lost the +6 on f+[3] for the 2nd spin, that's a bummer, but a regular f+3 was like -3 on block. If it's neutral now, that's an improvement. Kuma has only gotten better. wtf are you smoking?

Craig's changes bum me out, but he wasn't a weak character to begin with. Even with these changes he's not close to being low tier, but I certainly hope they changed something for the better or gave him a good new mid or two.

Steve deserves what he got, so what if it was too much? Nina's changes are pretty severe too, now that DC and Spider Knee are no longer safe, plus no more df+1,2 spam.

Bryan was never overrated, he was always a beast. f,b+2 is still arguably the best launcher in the game, and b+1 is no longer a spam move. He'll still be pretty solid but nerfing b+1 and his wall combo is definitely a big deal. Taunt still gives him an outstanding wall game though.

Julia a beast? wtf, she's pretty mediocre right now. She's hella unsafe off a lot of moves, insanely linear, and way too reliant on counter hits for damage. She's definitely in need of an upgrade.

I don't plan on playing 5.1 unless I can get it for the home console. And even if then, I am not sure I'm going to pay for it again. I mean, why own the home version if you can't do the same combos at the arcade?

'cause most of us no longer have any real arcade competition and major tournies are on console anyway.

[TF zer0]

Go back to gamefaqs or s-c.com thanks!


what does that mean?

[cygnus]

what does that mean?
It means you should go back to GameFAQs or S-C.com.

[TF zer0]

It means you should go back to GameFAQs or S-C.com.


for what reason? I dont go there anyways.

[forgenjuro]

ok so far this is what i get with the characters i play:
Steve-prolly will be low-middle tier cuz he lost practically all his combos. only launchers are now d/f+2,2 which only launches on crouch and f+3_4,2 which you can see coming from a mile away. still has good pokes though.

Feng-Not as bad as Steve. no trip for CH d/b+3, and longer recovery for SS+4 hurt his low poke game but he still has his launchers into good dmg.

Lei, Yoshimitsu-I dont know why they want to nerf anything these guys have. I mean WTF.

Roger Jr-tech blocks=no more tech traps, unless they increase the range for d/b+3 Roger will be more useless.

Raven-no raven changes yet

Jack-he moved up because they nerfed his arch nemesis steve/nina

[gl0ry]

bryan losing b+1 as launcher is like sagat losing cr. fierce to super :sad:

uf 4 will probably be used alot more

[Gamer X]

Thanks Ryu1999 I didn't see that. Now I got see how she plays.

JMJ - Yes the same game Tekken 5. The big three(Nina/Steve/Bryan) have lost some key moves and weaker charatcers like Asuka didn't get anything that would make them useful. I'd admit I put Kuma up there without reading the whole thing(my fault) but come on, I hear people fearing Kuma. Hell Law got raped for no reason either and you can't say he didn't. Julia is beast, no not like Nina or Steve but still a handful. Have you played a good Julia player?

[cygnus]

First, how come everyone thinks blocking out of techroll=no tech traps?. Most tech traps work because they hit the opponent from the side, not just because they hit at the end of a techroll. Marduk's, Raven's, and other characters tech traps work like this. Tech traps that won't work are things like Bryan's wall 1,2,1, d/f+3, and Wang's d/f+1+3+4.

About Steve's d/f+2,2. If it still launches, and the 1st hit never launches, wouldn't this be better for Steve? He woudn't have to guess whether you will attack or duck. Unless the 2nd 2 ONLY launches if the 1st hits a croucher. I dunno I'm not that familiar with Steve. And while ALB 2 has no CH stun, it's main uses (FAST whiff punisher/ALB mixups) didn't rely on a CH. And if you get smacked with ALB+2/ALB~u+1 near a wall you're still gonna be fucked in the ass.

[Zigmover21]

I'd admit I put Kuma up there without reading the whole thing(my fault) but come on, I hear people fearing Kuma.

What the hell are you trying to say? :xeye:

Hell Law got raped for no reason either and you can't say he didn't.

How did Law get raped? qcf+1,2,1,2 wasn't that good to begin with. Nerfing CH db+3 is a notciable loss, but rape? Give me a break, that's nowhere close to being a major downgrade. He lost ONE counter hit juggle starter, ONE. Based on what's been released, everything else is still intact. And with the downgrades Steve, Nina, and Bryan suffered, Law's probably a good candidate for top tier in 5.1.

[Higher-Jin]

i dont play tekken, but why are namco releasing this so soon?
The only thing i can see happeneing is that it will divide u tekken fans on what to play 5 or 5.1
I guess they must have been under pressure to get tekken out and always planned to do these changes anyway.
I cant see any other excuess to releasing an upgrade so soon.

actually releasing it sooner rather than later when everyone is used ot the game is a better idea but so far no "upgraded fighters" have been successful.

[Calcal]

They didnt change Paul at all but changed Kuma? That doesnt make any sense.

[BlodiaVulcan5]

gah, they weakened Nina's game, LAME to the MAX.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Still waiting on what "+ d+4,1 has more delay on block." means and why it's a plus....


EDIT: My bust, it's a minus on TZ, which means that he has damn near nothing safe now.

[jae hoon]

First, how come everyone thinks blocking out of techroll=no tech traps?. Most tech traps work because they hit the opponent from the side, not just because they hit at the end of a techroll. Marduk's, Raven's, and other characters tech traps work like this. Tech traps that won't work are things like Bryan's wall 1,2,1, d/f+3, and Wang's d/f+1+3+4.

About Steve's d/f+2,2. If it still launches, and the 1st hit never launches, wouldn't this be better for Steve? He woudn't have to guess whether you will attack or duck. Unless the 2nd 2 ONLY launches if the 1st hits a croucher. I dunno I'm not that familiar with Steve. And while ALB 2 has no CH stun, it's main uses (FAST whiff punisher/ALB mixups) didn't rely on a CH. And if you get smacked with ALB+2/ALB~u+1 near a wall you're still gonna be fucked in the ass.


What is saying though so no matter which way you tech roll you can be in full block the whole time, ie no tech traps.

[cygnus]

What is saying though so no matter which way you tech roll you can be in full block the whole time, ie no tech traps.
But that would mean that the changes enable you to block moves from the side OR changes techrolls so that you ALWAYS get up front turned, which I just can't picture happening. Some tech traps (such as Raven's qcf+3+4 to one side) actually have you get up backturned.

[jae hoon]

But that would mean that the changes enable you to block moves from the side OR changes techrolls so that you ALWAYS get up front turned, which I just can't picture happening. Some tech traps (such as Raven's qcf+3+4 to one side) actually have you get up backturned.


Im just going by what it says right now. And right now it is saying that.

[Juicy G]

How did Law get raped? qcf+1,2,1,2 wasn't that good to begin with. Nerfing CH db+3 is a notciable loss, but rape? Give me a break, that's nowhere close to being a major downgrade. He lost ONE counter hit juggle starter, ONE. Based on what's been released, everything else is still intact. And with the downgrades Steve, Nina, and Bryan suffered, Law's probably a good candidate for top tier in 5.1.



This is truth. if anything nerfing db+3 was a good thing for balance, that move was too good already. now if he was nerfed then they would've taken away his ridiculous wall combos and mixups that almost always netted 100% damage.

[Scamp]

actually releasing it sooner rather than later when everyone is used ot the game is a better idea but so far no "upgraded fighters" have been successful.

What about #R? Blue version, not red.

[Rioting Soul]

So T5.1 comes out next week in Japan? So I guess they are speeding past/skipping the testing phase. If that's the case then they shouldn't bother with a patch. T5.1 could just wind up a fighter with even less playable/winnable characters or characters with more broken traits.

[Higher-Jin]

What about #R? Blue version, not red.

I guess I always thought ggxx #r as a different game but I guess you're right.

But usually minor updates don't work out so well just look at sfa2 gold and sfa3 upper.

[Saotome Kaneda]

So T5.1 comes out next week in Japan? So I guess they are speeding past/skipping the testing phase. If that's the case then they shouldn't bother with a patch. T5.1 could just wind up a fighter with even less playable/winnable characters or characters with more broken traits.
If it was reported and has pics in Arcadia, they've been testing in private for a bit, and had public ones over the last few weeks.

[Rioting Soul]

If it was reported and has pics in Arcadia, they've been testing in private for a bit, and had public ones over the last few weeks.

Then all is well. No more complaints from me... unless I hear that Bruce got a - and his 1,2 wasn't fixed.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Then all is well. No more complaints from me... unless I hear that Bruce got a - and his 1,2 wasn't fixed.
I don't think they're gonna fix 1,2. Just a gut feeling.

I was playing T5 Home last night, getting him up to Tekken Lord, and EVERY 1,2,3_whatever that wasn't CH got iWS whatevered by everyone I fought. They'd eat the 1, duck the 2 for like, 1 frame, then do their WS move. EVERY TIME.

[Zigmover21]

actually releasing it sooner rather than later when everyone is used ot the game is a better idea but so far no "upgraded fighters" have been successful.

#R and VF4:Evo have been hugely successful (in Japan at least). They were pretty major upgrades though, and Tekken 5.1 might turn out to be a big one as well. The tweaks we've learned of so far drastically change the game.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Time to shell out for that King card...I have no reason not to relearn him now.

[jae hoon]

Roger and Wang got nerfed pretty good from the looks of it. Bruce got better.

[Sliced]

Roger nerfed? I don't think he moved one bit. The f+1,2,1,2 is a bummer, but the rest of the negatives don't matter that much. db+3 can't be abused anymore at -16 (which is fine) and as for tech traps not working, people aren't falling for the cross-up stomp that much anymore. Roger didn't move much from these reports, seeing that two important pokes of his got upgraded nicely (ff+2 safe and df+1,2 longer range). People are just going to play Roger differently from his original version, that's all.

[iori666]

Mishima(Devil Jin, Heihachi, Kazuya) characters change are minimal, but try to dominate with them. :rolleyes:

Anyway excellent patch overall :tup:

[Saotome Kaneda]

Roger and Wang got nerfed pretty good from the looks of it. Bruce got better.
Wang's changes aren't as horrible as they seem, it's just that I can't play bulldog(?!?) Wang anymore. He was always a patient, wait-n-punish type anyway. Now you can't toss random shit out to bait for a launcher. d+3,4 and ff+4 haven't been touched, so I can still bait for random 1~11s... But overall his game needs to be more thoughtful. I guess I'll stick to d+4, d+4_4 if the 1 option recovers as horribly as they're saying...=/

[TrueSephiroth]

SBN got spanked in the ass with this patch. For me the there things that I'm glad they took out for SBN, for Steve it was his d/f+2 as that was such a BS launcher that hit mid as well, CH 1,2,1,2, and 2,1,2 no longer launch, and 1,2,1 and 2,1 into FLK~ALB is gone. For Bryan it was B+1 although it doesn't launch on normal hit I suspect it will still have the block stun potential and imo can still be very effective even if only launchable on CH but still a tone nonetheless, and <wall> 1,2,1, d/f+3 catch no longer works :tup:, for Nina it's definetly d/f+1,2 has delay on both hit and block, and her oki's being nerfed and techable.

My guess from here on since that SBN is no longer that good is guys like Devil Jin and Marshall Law will become Top Tier.

[Obliterate]

I'm all for balancing games if it makes it more playable. Offhand, the main thing I can think of is getting rid of Steve's infinite. I don't know if the other changes are warranted though. I'm surprised they haven't come up with a way to make link throws more useful. Like making the command for breaking the throw an actual movement (IE f,b,f+1), instead of random mashing that leads to a break. I'm not much of a King player anyways, but I like balance for all, and all for balance or some gay shit like that. My main gripe is that the home version came out not too long ago, so that means people shelling out another $50? I hope they have enough common sense to sell that shit for like $20.

[ShinkuuR]

Julia is beast, no not like Nina or Steve but still a handful. Have you played a good Julia player?

Julia's only a beast if you're prone to counter hits or can't break MA's. Otherwise she's incredibly hard to play because of her limited tools.

She has no tracking or oki. Her juggles aren't really special anymore since everybody else can do about the same juggle damage. She can't do anything about turtlers at all. She's isn't safe on her launchers. She's easily sidesteppable. Namco's taking out tech catches, so the small ones she did have will be gone, and they're messing with the walls so her wall game will probably be worse. A tweaked 4 and d/f+3 isn't going to conpensate for all her weaknesses.

As far as Asuka goes, they toned up her d+3+4 so if you get hit by the first low, you have to block the second hit. I don't know if this means they changed it to low, mid or not, but asuka's fine right where she is.

For Nina, I just hope that her d/f+1,2 isn't any worse than TTT or T4. But Namco really should give you some kind of pushback for JF Spider Knee...

[jae hoon]

Mishima(Devil Jin, Heihachi, Kazuya) characters change are minimal, but try to dominate with them. :rolleyes:

Anyway excellent patch overall :tup:


People have dominate for them for about 10 years, the new T5 patch will be no different. It will just be a mishima fest and like I said I dont see the game being anymore balanced then it is now.

[Saotome Kaneda]

As far as Asuka goes, they toned up her d+3+4 so if you get hit by the first low, you have to block the second hit. I don't know if this means they changed it to low, mid or not, but asuka's fine right where she is.

This stun already exists. Hwoarang's d+3,4 does the same thing. Get hit by d+3 then try to duck the 4.

She really didn't need it though....But all the better, I guess.

[ShinkuuR]

This stun already exists. Hwoarang's d+3,4 does the same thing. Get hit by d+3 then try to duck the 4.

She really didn't need it though....But all the better, I guess.

You sure? The CPU ducks the second hit all the time after the low connects, but that just might be CPU shit. I'll check it out.

[Zigmover21]

This stun already exists.

Uhm, no it doesn't. For some moves it's there but not for Asuka's d+3+4.

[Zigmover21]

But Namco really should give you some kind of pushback for JF Spider Knee...

My ass they should. Why don't people realize just how stupid this move is? It's an amazingly BS string ender 'cause there's NO ramifications, and the reward on hit are awesome.

[JIVE TURKEY JONES]

Honestly, I feel if they just made Nina's uf+1 techable, and made Steve Fox sidesteppable, the game would have been fine. Nina can keep the df+1,2 garbage. And I don't care about Steve's speed, frame advantage, and wall damage. All I want is for a character who has all of that, to be sidesteappable for balance against it. Julia only has the speed and damage. Not the safeness or wall game of Steve, and she's sidesteappable like crazy. Doesn't make sense.

Of course, there are some minor fixes that needed to be addressed. Kuma's f,f+2 and Rogers df+1,2. Those moves are horribly programmed. Rogers df+1,2 will wiff the 2 at point blank range. And Kuma's f,f+2 goes through polygons too much like nothing is there. (is "clip" the word I'm looking for?)

But tiers will always exist. People who bitched about Bryan, especially his b+1, need to learn that standing in one spot after blocking it is your fault. B+1 was overrated. Nobody should be a victim of b+1 spam. After a blocked b+1, SS~b~b (sidestep back dash) avoids anything he can try after it. Even the extended throw (f+2+4) You are always going to have character stronger than others. They finally deliver a Tekken where Mishimas don't ass rape people, and now it's a problem. Honestly, people got what they originally asked for to a degree. The Mishima fest ended.

In short: All they had to do was make Nina's uf+1 techable, and make Steve more susceptible to fall to a sidestepper. The game would be fine after that. They did more harm then good with this new patch IMO.

I wouldn't be surprised if people reject it and go back to the original T5.



Jive Out!

[Zigmover21]

I wouldn't be surprised if people reject it and go back to the original T5.

With the nerfing of the big 3, I severely doubt it (assuming the game actually sees a widespread release outside of the Japanese/Korean arcade market). I do NOT want to go back to dealing with Steve, thank you very much.

As for b+1....launchers shouldn't give +3~4 on block, plain and simple (according to me at least, heh; and that include's Ganny's b+2). Yes you can beat b+1 spam, but the risk/reward for the move was just too rediculous. If you block it and Bryan sidesteps with you, THEN does another b+1 (and he's gonne sidestep to your right 'cause it's the only direction you'll step him to begin with), that causes more problems for you. I agree that it wasn't that big of a "must-have" change, but with Nina and Steve's launchers getting nerfed, it was only fair that Bryan also lose something in that regard. Hell he's still got f,b+2, arguably the best launcher in the game.

The reported changes to Kuma/Panda's ff+2 have nothing to do with hit detection. Instead they made the move safer. If it tracked it'd be downright retarded (it's already too hard to punish IMO), 'cause the push-out is insane. I'm not too sure making it safer was wise, but hey, you gotta give him something right?

[cygnus]

Something to think about: Making an update isn't just about balancing the game. It's also to keep it current/relevant. Part of this is changing the game just for the sake of changing it, to keep it interesting and fresh.

[JIVE TURKEY JONES]

With the nerfing of the big 3, I severely doubt it (assuming the game actually sees a widespread release outside of the Japanese/Korean arcade market). I do NOT want to go back to dealing with Steve, thank you very much.
I would rather deal with their bullshit, then lose my characters good points. Like Roger's tail sweep now being -16 on block. Come on. What useful juggle starters does Rog have other than hopkick? SS+4 can be seen coming, and rocket stance > 2 isn't practical. Db+3 wasn't exactly fast, and was victim to anything mid or high. And the move didn't even have to be quick to hit her while Rog attempted db+3. Changing Rog's CH 1212 properties is kinda gay too. I don't welcome the safer and spam friendlier f,f+2. It came at the cost of too much IMO. Rog's df+1,2 is something that should have been correct the first time. That move was horribly programmed. Really doesn't bother me that tech traps are gone. They aren't as effective anymore.

And Law? Why did they even touch him. Really?

Jive Out!

[Zigmover21]

I would rather deal with their bullshit, then lose my characters good points.

But how many characters have really suffered besides the top 3? We won't know for sure until all the changes are found and the game is played for a good amount of time.

Like Roger's tail sweep now being -16 on block. Come on. What useful juggle starters does Rog have other than hopkick?

Considering the move's properties, I don't think -16 is that bad. It's unparryable, leads to ~50 damage, and is hard to block on reaction. That's still pretty fucking good. And as a Marduk player, well, I'm not that sympathetic when something that's -16 is at least a buff combo starter. And this is REGARDLESS of the 5.1 changes to his d+4; if that move isn't safer, I'll need to kill someone.

And the move didn't even have to be quick to hit her while Rog attempted db+3

But that's assuming they're trying to interrupt you in the first place. He's got the tools to make someone hesitant to attack, even with the loss of CH f+1,2,1,2 combos. Overall Roger hasn't changed that much, just slightly less cheezy. I think you're just taking losses way too hard, no offense. Better to start thinking in a positive light and waiting for what we have yet to find out.

And Law? Why did they even touch him. Really?

Well, for starters, they didn't really change anything. And second, I wouldn't mind if they nerfed him some more. He's rediculously strong, especially now that S/N/B are weaker.

[jasegfstyle]

sorry but tekken is just too random anyway so wont effect many people to tell the truth :clap:

[JamMasterJom]

yah :rolleyes:

[Zigmover21]

sorry but tekken is just too random anyway so wont effect many people to tell the truth :clap:

My God you're right. How could I have overlooked this painstakingly obvious fact?

[jasegfstyle]

glad i could help :clap:

[Rioting Soul]

sorry but tekken is just too random anyway so wont effect many people to tell the truth :clap:

Nobody can beat your top tier Eddy/Christie.

[JIVE TURKEY JONES]

But that's assuming they're trying to interrupt you in the first place. He's got the tools to make someone hesitant to attack, even with the loss of CH f+1,2,1,2 combos. Overall Roger hasn't changed that much, just slightly less cheezy. I think you're just taking losses way too hard, no offense. Better to start thinking in a positive light and waiting for what we have yet to find out.
:sweat: You know, now that I actually thought about it. I guess it really doesn't matter since I only used the tail sweep in oki as they got up, or out of a psuedo wave dash. And the only reason I used it out of the wave dash, was because random wave dashes to f,f+2 stopped people from poking/ducking, which really helps set it up. So now that T5.1 f,f+2 on block is safer, that sort of allows it be spammed more. Which I guess in the end, helps out the tail sweep mixup. :blush: My bad.

But I sill stand by my opinion that if they fixed Nina's uf+1, and made Steve sidesteppable, the game would have been just fine. There will always be tiers you have to deal with. No game is perfectly balanced. Well, Karate Champ was. But that game was the exception, and the **least fun fighting game ever made. <--- Don't hold me to that.

Jive Out!

[FrazCTF4LIFE]

Jean Claude Van Damm owns joooooo^^^^ in Karate Champ.:looney:

[Saotome Kaneda]

You sure? The CPU ducks the second hit all the time after the low connects, but that just might be CPU shit. I'll check it out.


My bust... Stand Guard the first hit, and you're forced to stand Guard the second, or you eat the hit and stay standing...

[Saotome Kaneda]

Uhm, no it doesn't. For some moves it's there but not for Asuka's d+3+4.
What do you mean by this? You say it doesn't, then say it does in the same breath? :confused:

None of Asuka's moves ATM does this, but I know Hwoarang and maybe Nina/Anna do it. =/

[Zigmover21]

What do you mean by this? You say it doesn't, then say it does in the same breath? :confused:

Uhm, it seems you're mixed up. Nobody has claimed there are no strings that are unduckable if the first move hits. But Asuka's d+3+4 does not currently have this property. That's all I'm saying; you're reading too much into things.

[MarkMan]

You guys like my compiled list don't cha?

:)

[Saotome Kaneda]

Uhm, it seems you're mixed up. Nobody has claimed there are no strings that are unduckable if the first move hits. But Asuka's d+3+4 does not currently have this property. That's all I'm saying; you're reading too much into things.
Ok, I see where the confusion is. I didn't say Asuka's d+3+4 to begin with. =/

As for whoever was defending Bryan, NO he wasn't raped enough. Who else in the game has a launcher that can hit you at about 2 dashes(or at least, 1 dash from starting positions) away? That leaves him at enough advantage to jab you if you do block it? SS Cancel doesn't save you from basic Yomi crap off of this move alone. In fact I could say, IMO, this is the other reason that he gets any wins. Slow down/give neg frames/remove launch on normal hit would be all I want at this point. He has more than enough fast moves.

[cheese_master]

But tiers will always exist. People who bitched about Bryan, especially his b+1, need to learn that standing in one spot after blocking it is your fault. B+1 was overrated. Nobody should be a victim of b+1 spam. After a blocked b+1, SS~b~b (sidestep back dash) avoids anything he can try after it. Even the extended throw (f+2+4) You are always going to have character stronger than others. They finally deliver a Tekken where Mishimas don't ass rape people, and now it's a problem. Honestly, people got what they originally asked for to a degree. The Mishima fest ended.


Not really... just because Mishimas don't dominate doesn't mean people got what they wanted. The game became even scrubbier now without Mishimas dominating. At least before you could be sure that players who were good with Mishimas had alot of skill to destroy you (because average Mishimas were very beatable). Now even average and bad Steve/Nina players are still difficult to player against with alot of the cast. I think T5 Steve and Nina were much worse than Mishimas in TTT.

[Rioting Soul]

What's the general opinion on Old Bryan? It seems that when people mention the top tier and how annoyed they are with them, Bryan is usually excluded. IMO Bryan was tolerable(only the b+1 fix was necessary... if necessary at all). How often did b+1 out-prioritize? Did b+1 have any crush properties? I play with Bryan so this could just be bias. It was always Nina and Steve that annoyed me, Bryan was tolerable.

[JamMasterJom]

well yah bryans probably not too gay if you already play him

:rolleyes:

[{PFH}-Lake]

The only people who thought Nina was good was us. Korea thinks shes like mid tier.

People who might be the best now, Devil Jin-wavedash, and king, and Raven.

[Obliterate]

I wonder if they are adding new shit, like characters or backgrounds? Probably justing adjusting characters so they can copy and paste the data for their next Tekken Tag Tournament game.

[roninwarrior24]

Why can't they nerf Jinpachi? I know all of you would love it if Namco nerfed him.

Back to topic: With no more Steve, Nina, and Bryan dominance, the Mishimas will reign supreme again (it seems like they aren't getting as nerfed as the other characters), and Lei will STILL suck. BTW, wasn't Devil Jin dominating in Korea, despite the fact that we thought he was mid tier? I guess this patch will give them more reason to dominate with him.

[jae hoon]

The only people who thought Nina was good was us. Korea thinks shes like mid tier.

People who might be the best now, Devil Jin-wavedash, and king, and Raven.


Misconception. Korea did think think she was top tier, they just dont like playing her. Korea just thinks she is a boring character. They again also play on different settings then everyone else/

[Rioting Soul]

well yah bryans probably not too gay if you already play him

:rolleyes:

I play Steve too.

[ShinAkumax]

Misconception. Korea did think think she was top tier, they just dont like playing her. Korea just thinks she is a boring character. They again also play on different settings then everyone else/

What settings are these?

[Zakuta]

Misconception. Korea did think think she was top tier, they just dont like playing her. Korea just thinks she is a boring character. They again also play on different settings then everyone else/

Yet they play Roger Jr, the pinnacle of BORED.

[JamMasterJom]

***

filler

[Sliced]

Yet they play Roger Jr, the pinnacle of BORED.
I sense bitterness.

MASSIVE bitterness.

[jae hoon]

What settings are these?


They set there lifebar all the way up instead of 100 percent I believe its 140. That extra life matters alot.

[Sliced]

jae: actually it's +2, i.e. 120%

[Hoonyo]

b+1 was tight until this shit came out

what to use now !! :sad:

[cygnus]

Yeah you're right, long range, +3 on block, what a shitty move. How will you ever cope?

[insanelee]

bryan will still be top 5, sure no more b1 but unbreakable ch ws3!?wtf!

bronson.

[Saotome Kaneda]

I dunno, ws3 setups are pretty weak in general. You'd have to randomly do it(unlike the 80% of Bryan users that I've seen/played that religously do it after db3 like it's a canned combo or something) in order to get the full mileage.

Then again, it was hard enough to break on reaction and NOT eat the fb2 afterwards....

[The Invincible Swordsman]

I don't see the big deal if you're whining. Bryan's b+1 is still pretty good. I don't get where people say it's slow. It looks like it comes outta nowhere to me sometimes. If you want a whiff punisher (or just a puinisher period) that fuckin' bad... use f,f+2 from long range and f,b+2 (which REALLY comes out of nowhere) up close..... problem solved.

Steve is still good. Half of his movelist is safe. I know it sucks that you don't have his main juggle starter..... but his ground game is still boss. And you can still juggle with u/f+2 (which is kinda like a hop kick, though slightly slower) and it tech jumps (is that right term?) He can still kill whiffs and maintain pressure.

Nina is still good. Her ground game is just as good as Steve's with safe stuff all over. And unlike Korea we have to put up with the damage/life settings as they are. She still has safe launchers and some great lows.


This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

I don't like getting beat, but I'd rather get beat by a wave-dashing DJ than a guy who just picked up Steve two days ago.

[Zakuta]

I sense bitterness.

MASSIVE bitterness.

If you know me, you also know that I absolutely do not like Roger Jr. I actually do think he's boring. Shockingly in fact.

Rah! Who gets beat by 2 day old Steves? :D

[Saotome Kaneda]

It looks like it comes outta nowhere to me sometimes.

It's fun when you know it's coming, you see it a mile away, you do 1,2 with Lee, watch as BOTH YOUR FISTS GO RIGHT THROUGH HIS SHOULDER, and then eat b+1 XX Jab To Wall XX DEATH.

[jae hoon]

jae: actually it's +2, i.e. 120%


I coudnt remember for sure, I knew they played at a higher setting.

[REALPLAYER]

At least we can say that namco cares, but they should just stop wasting time and bring out TTT2.
Couple of engine tweaks and that will THE game of choice for the next several years.

[Mr. Bastos]

Un-FUCKING-necessary

agreed. making his throw give disadvantage is shitty plus the fact that you can't tech catch them anymore since you can block while techrolling. :sad:

[The Invincible Swordsman]

It's fun when you know it's coming, you see it a mile away, you do 1,2 with Lee, watch as BOTH YOUR FISTS GO RIGHT THROUGH HIS SHOULDER, and then eat b+1 XX Jab To Wall XX DEATH.

Why not sidestep instead? You have to SS it late and SW with it.


This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

People who know the ins and outs of the game and THEN pick up Steve can swamp people after two days of practice. I've seen it.... because I've done it and had it done to me by a friend of mine.

[JamMasterJom]

yep

filler

[Stuckey]

i'm glad they took the godly b+1 from Bryan. That's been my biggest issue since T5's release.

[ShinAkumax]

They set there lifebar all the way up instead of 100 percent I believe its 140. That extra life matters alot.

Thanks.

[Superking]

Hey off topic, but I recently got back into T5 after a long hiatus/semi-retirement even before started, so anyhoo I started playing Bruce today and he's pimp. So any basic strats for him? And how does he fare against everybody else?

[Saotome Kaneda]

Hey off topic, but I recently got back into T5 after a long hiatus/semi-retirement even before started, so anyhoo I started playing Bruce today and he's pimp. So any basic strats for him? And how does he fare against everybody else?
Poke mixups with 123 and 12d4, you can pretty much hit confirm CH 1212 with a little practice, don't CD+3 more than once every 10 matches, (re-)learn his big juggles and new ones off of CH f+3, bf+4, etc.

[Superking]

Cool, though I can't get that much practice on T5 since I don't have it on console (only really play it ever at the arcades). Now I dunno if it's worth it with 5.1 looming over the horizon. :xeye:

[Saotome Kaneda]

ADD TO 1st POST


Arcadia states the following changes

+/- Thanks to the changes to Tech Rolls, NO tech specific combos work anymore unless the attack side or back hits you. Yes Feng users, any tech combo you had before(CH b+1, ff b1+2, and CH ff2, db4) that doesn't turn them around are useless now.

+/- Thanks to the new Ground Damage modifier, all moves that did goofy ground damage(Raven's f3+4,4,2 was listed as an example) will do 70% as well as any standard ground hits.

--- These two changes really hurt Ganryu users....


Steve
- (1),2,1 can no longer be cancelled into Quick Turn(3+4)
- b1,2 no longer a natural combo(?)
- Opponent techs from all db2 variations(from 121 and 3+4) faster

Feng
- d4 on grounded opponents is slower
- 3~4, 4 has longer delay between hits

Nina
- UF+4 no longer hits grounded
- longer recovery on ss2
- all Divine Cannons are slower on recovery
- df1,2 is -3 on guard, and -2(?) on hit?

Bryan
+ d3+4,2,3 combos on CH
- 124 is -3 on guard
- ff2 is -10 on guard?
+/- b1 is +5 on normal hit...And puts you in that stupid Kneeling stun that Kaz gets on f4

Hei
- 22~1 no longer connects

Law
+ d+1+2, 1 crumple stuns(like Hei CH 4), allowing 1, f+1 to combo

Lei
+ ff2 is -10, forces crouch
+ ff4, 3+4 reacts like the CH version in the old version

Jack-5
+ db+2 gets into tech crouch faster

Ganryu
- df2+3 recovers slower
- 1+2, 1+2 recovers slower
- df1, 4 recovers slower

Raven
+ Apparantly Raven's CD+3+4, db+4, uf+3 tech catch works if you teck to the left...

Yoshi
- Turn Suicide (fF1+4) does 72 instead of 100 now(WTF)

Roger
- Tombstone gets the same removal of free Ali Kick as King. Dunno what this means for the free headbutt.


(will finish later)

[jae hoon]

Im sorry guys say what you want about Steve and Nina are still going to be good char, there going to be worse then Lei. There done GGPO.

[Rioting Soul]

Kyoji: At close range, poke with f+3 sometimes if the opponent gives enough time for it to come out. f+3 is safe on block but doesn't give much advantage so don't do anything if they block. If it hits normal then you are safe, if it CHs then press f+3 again to launch then 1, b+4,3,4 for about half damage.

When opponent is near the wall, get a wall splat(Use CH 1,2,1,2 if you have an eye for counter hits. Use CH 1,2,3 if you don't) then wall hit with 1,2,1,2.

d/f+3,1- If the 3 hits normal then the 1 can be blocked but you will be safe as long as the 3 hits. After the d/f+3 it's a good idea to d+4 immediately afterwards.

CD+3- I only use this as my opponent is getting up. By time it reaches them they will already be standing. On hit/block it's safe enough for u/f+4 to beat just about anything the enemy tries. CD+3 is not that reliable. It's easy to see coming.

Alternate 1,2,(d+4_3) with 2,(d+4_3) for confusion. Great when against the wall.

Try this one time against an opponent: juggle your opponent as you normally would. When you get to the b+4,3,4 ender, instead press b+4,3(hold b+3) then repeatedly tap on 2. What will happen is that you will only do b+4,3. The last 4 will not come out and the opponent will land. But at as soon as Bruce recovers from the second knee he charges up for his unblockable(while opponent is falling). If the opponent techrolls or gets up quickly then they are helpless(they could possibly do a reversal but that's rare). If this works on an opponent once, it'll never work again. If they just lay there and the unblockable whiffs, don't try it again. This is a gimmick.

u/f+3- crushes lows. Use this for oki when opponent rolls forward or tries low kick recover.

My go-to juggle is 2,3, b+4,3,4

If opponent spams jabs then d/b+4(5.1 will give more reason to do so).

Whiff punisher: f+1+2, ff+3

[Superking]

Good stuff, I might try this today if I go to the arcades. :tup:

I'd rep you RS and SK if I were premium.

[cygnus]

Im sorry guys say what you want about Steve and Nina are still going to be good char, there going to be worse then Lei. There done GGPO.
I think Nina is gonna be hurt pretty bad, but I think Steve (and Bryan) will be just fine. In fact I think Steve, Bryan, DJ, and possibly Jin will be the new top tier, just a guess from what I've heard.

[Saotome Kaneda]

I disagree on Steve, as his primary problem was his safe jab damage which lead to a safe power hit(nerfed), his easy launching combos(nerfed), and his inf stuff(gone). His d+1 is slower now too, and he has no reliable quick launcher outside of uf+2. I'll post up the rest of the changes(almost nothing BUT bad for him) tonight.

[Aenima]

tekken just got worst

No it didn't. It got better. It prevents people from spamming one move over and over. This patch is going to make people accutally PLAY the game.

[cygnus]

I'll post up the rest of the changes(almost nothing BUT bad for him) tonight.
:o

BTW do you know any of the additional changes to the non top-tier characters?

[Saotome Kaneda]

:o

BTW do you know any of the additional changes to the non top-tier characters?
They had at least 3 things for everyone.

For some reason, they say Law's better off doing both Flipkicks now instead of one. 1 Flip = -16, 2 = -13? IIRC

[JamMasterJom]

Im sorry guys say what you want about Steve and Nina are still going to be good char, there going to be worse then Lei. There done GGPO.

not even close

ediT:

and cygnus what the hell does jin have?

nothing?

[Ryu1999]

not even close

ediT:

and cygnus what the hell does jin have?

nothing?

I'm going to predict he brings up Angel Jin, who is/was a fluke. Winning a tourney on bad sticks and without the participation of Leedy/Hole Man/Nin/etc. doesn't prove shit

[JamMasterJom]

agreed.

ive never joined this angel jin bandwagon, and if he ever came to the states, id play him jin vs jin for money.

[Ryu1999]

agreed.

ive never joined this angel jin bandwagon, and if he ever came to the states, id play him jin vs jin for money.

I've read enough of your posts on TZ to know how you feel about him lol. Jin sucks, AND he's a boring character. Not a good combination

[Lil Majin]

Some of you guys are over-exaggerating for no reason. Live with the update and go from there. Tekken 5 was a rushed game in the first place and 5.1 is what T5 was meant to be.

STFU and play the updated game with "the characters you like regardless of change."

[DarkZero]

Yeah, Pauls d+4,2:1+2 is like T4 and ff+2:1 you can't duck the second hit. Makes me happier for Paul but I still think he needs something else so I still won't play with him.

[TrueSephiroth]

agreed.

ive never joined this angel jin bandwagon, and if he ever came to the states, id play him jin vs jin for money.

I think you underestimate people too much, sure T5 Jin isn't like T4 Jin, but the matter of fact is that he beat White Sumire's Nina or more like destroyed, and isn't White Sumire supposed to have one of the best Nina's in S. Korea. Hey may have not of gone up against guys like Nin, Hole Man, or Leedy, but then again, he didn't go up against random scrub players and get praised for being a good Jin player, he played against solid players while using Jin, I give him credit for that.

I'm not saying OMG, Angel Jin is the roxxur's and he'll own you all and Jin will be Top Tier for 5.1 because I know that he'll still stay mid tier. Btw, Jom, I would love to see you money match Angel Jin, in a Jin vs. Jin match, please post that up in Zaibatsu for all to see if you believe Angel Jin wasn't a good Jin player at all, I'm sure that someone could work something out so that you two could meat and square off.

[Zigmover21]

At the end of the day, Jin is trash. Unless we learn of some new changes, he'll still suck.

[cygnus]

I like Jin. :sad:

[The Invincible Swordsman]

Does being mid-tier mean you suck all of a sudden?


This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

I am SO happy I'm not one of these tournament jocking tekken players who watch Korea vids with a microscope. I don't think I'd ever be able to enjoy playing the game.

[Sliced]

I'm not saying OMG, Angel Jin is the roxxur's and he'll own you all and Jin will be Top Tier for 5.1 because I know that he'll still stay mid tier. Btw, Jom, I would love to see you money match Angel Jin, in a Jin vs. Jin match, please post that up in Zaibatsu for all to see if you believe Angel Jin wasn't a good Jin player at all, I'm sure that someone could work something out so that you two could meat and square off. Question is, is Angel Jin going to EVO?

Dude, you should challenge Jom.

[jae hoon]

At the end of the day, Jin is trash. Unless we learn of some new changes, he'll still suck.


I play Jin, what Zig says is pretty much true. Jin is low mid so yes you could possibly still win with him, its really fucking hard and not very likely.

[NeREMIXED]

. Hey may have not of gone up against guys like Nin, Hole Man, or Leedy, .

I'm pretty sure I saw a vid of him against Leedy. And he beat Leedy.

Back when Leedy was still Kaz though.

[Gamer X]

Here is one for the rumor mill. Posted on TZ

http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=81498&perpage=25&pagenumber=31

http://blog.livedoor.jp/inatekken/

5.1 is released on 11th of July, in arcades on the 12th.

and

New/Playable Characters for Tekken 5.1
- Kunimitsu
- Jinpachi
- Devil (fully transformed, Angel not confirmed)
- Alex (Palette swap, customizable item for Roger Jr.)
- Miharu (Palette swap, customizable item for Ling)


Not sure how much is true, just add more fuel to the fire :badboy:.

[Devil X]

there are alot of rumors flying around with bryan. ive heard his fb2 might not be safe on block anymore. if they take away all his launchers it would be retarded. hes always had safe launchers because he had nothing to mix them up with. if he now has punishable launchers + no scary low attacks theres no way hed be top tier, even with ws+3 ch. you could already out turtle bryan to win it would just make doing that easier.

d+3+4,2,3 was always a ch combo as far as i know

b+1 obviously you could put as a minus, there is no plus to that situation. the new follow up sounds ok but its a big downgrade from getting a guaranteed combo

also put in his - tech catches are gone. wall combo is gone. i dont really have a problem with that. but they are changing his foundation. a safe character with no good mix ups. now hes not a safe character and still doesnt have the mix ups, go figure lol. i really hope fb+2 stays safe on block. if it does i think he could still hang well in the game.

the only thing special about him now will be his taunt and overall game near the wall will still be strong. outside of walls he will be low mid tier. with walls he will be mid tier.

[Zigmover21]

Does being mid-tier mean you suck all of a sudden?

It does when you're as shitty as Jin. Only real reason is mid-tier is 'cause he has damage. Actually hitting you, on the other hand.......God he's trash.

[Saotome Kaneda]

there are alot of rumors flying around with bryan. ive heard his fb2 might not be safe on block anymore. if they take away all his launchers it would be retarded. hes always had safe launchers because he had nothing to mix them up with. if he now has punishable launchers + no scary low attacks theres no way hed be top tier, even with ws+3 ch. you could already out turtle bryan to win it would just make doing that easier.

d+3+4,2,3 was always a ch combo as far as i know

b+1 obviously you could put as a minus, there is no plus to that situation. the new follow up sounds ok but its a big downgrade from getting a guaranteed combo

also put in his - tech catches are gone. wall combo is gone. i dont really have a problem with that. but they are changing his foundation. a safe character with no good mix ups. now hes not a safe character and still doesnt have the mix ups, go figure lol. i really hope fb+2 stays safe on block. if it does i think he could still hang well in the game.

the only thing special about him now will be his taunt and overall game near the wall will still be strong. outside of walls he will be low mid tier. with walls he will be mid tier.

They wouldn't report that combo all hitting on CH if it did already... It all hits on the wall.

b+1 leaving you in knee stun on normal hit with +5 is a little scary, as he's still in your fucking face, and he still has quick moves to keep you blocking...

And I noted the overall tech catch game is gone, no need to do single notes for everyone.

uf+4 is punishable?:confused:

[Rioting Soul]

Lol, it's like Namco is actually mad AT the [top tier] characters.

Namco: How DARE you be top tier?!
Steve: But I-
*smack*
Namco: No safe launcher for you! Mmmm yeah, and that ALB after 1,2,1... the fuck was you thinkin'?

wall combo is gone.

Are you just referring to Bryan's wall game or are you saying that wall combos are impossible for everyone now? My dear Bruce.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Lol, it's like Namco is actually mad AT the [top tier] characters.

Namco: How DARE you be top tier?!
Steve: But I-
*smack*
Namco: No safe launcher for you! Mmmm yeah, and that ALB after 1,2,1... the fuck was you thinkin'?



Are you just referring to Bryan's wall game or are you saying that wall combos are impossible for everyone now? My dear Bruce.
He's referring to the wall tech BS. The primary goal of the tech roll change WAS to rape that stupid Bryan BS. Everything else is just a side effect.

[Infested Jester]

I still wanna know WTF this thing is.

Click Here (http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/406/timerelease8pb.jpg)

[JamMasterJom]

Btw, Jom, I would love to see you money match Angel Jin, in a Jin vs. Jin match, please post that up in Zaibatsu for all to see if you believe Angel Jin wasn't a good Jin player at all, I'm sure that someone could work something out so that you two could meat and square off.

if angel jin ever came to the u.s., i would definitely play him for money.

at this point though evo isnt even a likely idea to me and if i go it wont be to play t5 seriously, itll be to hang out with all the people i know and get trashed and do stupid shit.

[50 SENT]

They wouldn't report that combo all hitting on CH if it did already... It all hits on the wall.

b+1 leaving you in knee stun on normal hit with +5 is a little scary, as he's still in your fucking face, and he still has quick moves to keep you blocking...

And I noted the overall tech catch game is gone, no need to do single notes for everyone.

uf+4 is punishable?:confused:

+5 is scary? d+2 already does that function. a guaranteed launcher is much more scary than that. i dont know how this is even a debate. this a HUGE downgrade.

it is important to note imo for this character since that was a huge part of his game. does it matter to julia players that tech is gone? there are certain characters where this severely hurts their game thats why i was pointing it out.

uf+4 is slow and a defensive move. you dont throw this move out looking to catch someone ducking or to punish a whiff with. its best function is to crush lows.

hey, but he has d+3+4 23 combo , WOOT!! :tdown:

[Saotome Kaneda]

+5 is scary? d+2 already does that function. a guaranteed launcher is much more scary than that. i dont know how this is even a debate. this a HUGE downgrade.

it is important to note imo for this character since that was a huge part of his game. does it matter to julia players that tech is gone? there are certain characters where this severely hurts their game thats why i was pointing it out.

uf+4 is slow and a defensive move. you dont throw this move out looking to catch someone ducking or to punish a whiff with. its best function is to crush lows.

hey, but he has d+3+4 23 combo , WOOT!! :tdown:

d+2 has no range. Bryan still has no problems getting in, and +5 still gives him shenanigans because of the range he ends up at(which is oddly where you need to be for d+2 to be effective). All you lost was a BS launcher that wasn't meant to be spammed anyway.

And no shit there are chars that this hurts a lot. Any of the Hip Press chars(Ganryu and Kuma especially), Xiao, Raven, Roger Jr....But we already know that the reason for the change in the tech system was because of Bryan's wall combo BS, so there's no need for me to note it twice. And it just so happens that to fix that, they had to "ruin" everyone else's shit.

Most usage of uf+4 I've seen are in block strings, usually after you've jabbed after b+1. And once again, most people aren't punishing it afterwards(or before), what's the frames on block?

And as for d+3+4 chain, maybe that's incentive to use it now? Instead of using it in wall combos?

[cygnus]

u/f+4 is -3 on block AFAIK.

[Devil X]

d+2 has no range. Bryan still has no problems getting in, and +5 still gives him shenanigans because of the range he ends up at(which is oddly where you need to be for d+2 to be effective). All you lost was a BS launcher that wasn't meant to be spammed anyway.

And no shit there are chars that this hurts a lot. Any of the Hip Press chars(Ganryu and Kuma especially), Xiao, Raven, Roger Jr....But we already know that the reason for the change in the tech system was because of Bryan's wall combo BS, so there's no need for me to note it twice. And it just so happens that to fix that, they had to "ruin" everyone else's shit.

Most usage of uf+4 I've seen are in block strings, usually after you've jabbed after b+1. And once again, most people aren't punishing it afterwards(or before), what's the frames on block?

And as for d+3+4 chain, maybe that's incentive to use it now? Instead of using it in wall combos?

i dont know how a 20 frame launcher that is easily sidewalked either direction (even by bigs) is meant for spamming. its a great move but its not an ewgf if you abused that move you died. steve walks one b+1 and he can land b+1, flk 1112, db+2 . nina 332 into combo etc. it was a great move but now it will not be worth the risk imo its too easy to get around and if its not even going to do serious damage it will have minimul usage from me. the risks far out weigh the reward now.

i dont understand how you use uf+4, after a blocked jab? for what? against a big character i can see a reason because it can track them. uf+4 is a defensive move and a low crush. people punish this move all the time, whether its with catching bryan with a jab in there air and comboing him or punishing the whiff.

d+3+4,2,3 is still worthless as long as ch 321 is there. its safer and leads to better follow ups (+5 in front of the opponent)

i just want to know if fb2 is safe or not.

[Capcom fan!]

anything new on lee chaolan?

[Zigmover21]

Dev: I think just the idea of a buff launcher giving + on block is pretty obscene. It's true b+1 doesn't track SSR worth shit, but that being the ONLY risk involved is kinda whack considering the potential rewards on hit. In the end I think it was jut a tad bit too much, especially consdering the fact that he ALSO had f,b+2 for whiff punishment AND uf+4. That all being said, nerfing his wall combo does make b+1's downgrade seem less necessary. Guess we'll have to wait and see how this all pans out.

[Devil X]

Dev: I think just the idea of a buff launcher giving + on block is pretty obscene. It's true b+1 doesn't track SSR worth shit, but that being the ONLY risk involved is kinda whack considering the potential rewards on hit. In the end I think it was jut a tad bit too much, especially consdering the fact that he ALSO had f,b+2 for whiff punishment AND uf+4. That all being said, nerfing his wall combo does make b+1's downgrade seem less necessary. Guess we'll have to wait and see how this all pans out.


it doesnt track swr or swl. even a big character can sidewalk it either way but most get too scared when they see it coming and stop moving, then get hit and complain that the move is too good. uf+4 is too damn slow to serve as punishment for whiffs. its 4 frames slower than b+1, which is a lot in the tekken world. leis sweep is 20 frames laws is about 24, thats a big difference leis sweep is much harder to block on reaction than laws. i almost never hit anyone decent over head with uf+4 because those extra frames make a difference. again this move is defensive. all they had to do to bryan was take away the wall combo. on open stages any decent character can defeat bryan. steve, nina and devil jin pretty much have their way with him in the open. the wall combo is what made him broken thats all that needed to be fixed.

[Hoonyo]

who am i supposed to believe?

bronson ( gosu)
devil x (gosu bryan)

:sad: for bryan

[DarkZero]

Uh when does the game come out? I can't find it on any import sites for preorder or is it still going to be Tekken5 just fixed with the changes?

[Superking]

It hits Japanese arcades sometime this month I think, and right now there's no word on a console release. But all signs point to a PS2 port later this year. If Namco is smart they'll release 5.1 as a budget/greatest hits version in Japan and everywhere else and not pull a Sega. (VF4EVO was released in Japan for full price as opposed to its Greatest Hits budget price release in North America.)

[JIVE TURKEY JONES]

(VF4EVO was released in Japan for full price as opposed to its Greatest Hits budget price release in North America.)
Releasing it in America as greatest hits was a mistake. But it was too late to catch once the top dawgs realized what happened.
on open stages any decent character can defeat bryan. steve, nina and devil jin pretty much have their way with him in the open. the wall combo is what made him broken thats all that needed to be fixed.
That's the point I've been trying to make to people. It seems tha Namco tried to address every thing people whined about, instead of addressing the real issues. If Bryans's b+1 was that broken, it would have never appeared again after TTT. It was the same deal in TTT. Nobody bitched then. The wall and tech traps are the real reason why his b+1 seem like such a bad culprit. Just like Steve. All they had to do was make him sidesteppable. That seems to be how they balanced out Julia. You can just sidestep around her like an orange cone. But instead, they rape him to hell and back, and shaft Bryan out of his best launcher. Bryan is strong, but his percentage of winning took a considerable chunk when walls were removed. Especially against Nina. This is all they needed to do to fix Tekken5:

Make Steve Fox sidesteppable
Make Nina's uf+1 techrollable after it hits you
Fix Bryans df+3 techtrapping. If need be, remove all tech traps.


I think wall damage should be left the way it is. That's it, game is good to go. But they decided to just go in and fuck shit up completely. Bryan doesn't have any good fast mids. And there was never really a good reason to duck against him pre-emptively. His snake edge could be seen coming a mile away, and can easily be parried/low blocked on reaction to it. Most people get smacked by b+1 because they wiffed a move (who's fault is that?) or because they decided to squat like a duck pre-emptively.(once again, who's fault is that?)

Oh well. I just read somewhere that Paul is back. His just frame f,f+2:1 is now mid/mid. Can anybody confirm this? Hell, I have more beef with this move than Bryan's b+1.

Jive Out!

[JamMasterJom]

Even if Steve was sidesteppable, nothing would change.

At his best he's a turtle character that fishes for punishment and counter hits, and gets beyond ridiculous damage off of both.

Steve was a flawed character from the day he appeared in Tekken.

[JIVE TURKEY JONES]

Even if Steve was sidesteppable, nothing would change.

At his best he's a turtle character that fishes for punishment and counter hits, and gets beyond ridiculous damage off of both.

Steve was a flawed character from the day he appeared in Tekken.
I actually agree, except for your sidesteppable part. Do I think making him sidesteappable will drop him to mid tier? Hell no. It won't effect his tiering at all. But it would have given a little balance to his character to a degree, without having to rape Steve the way Namco did. Steve can spam away with pokes and spin moves because his tracking is one of the, if not, the best in the game. Especially those damn spins. If he was sidesteappable, I think a good portion of the loose canon spamming would stop. At high level play, it seems most people get picked apart by Steve trying to get away from him. And Those spins can be thrown out at random with basically no risk, even from a distance. Leaves him basically safe(spin to mid shot at least), and a great way to close gaps for free.

Jive Out!

[DarkZero]

Oh well. I just read somewhere that Paul is back. His just frame f,f+2:1 is now mid/mid. Can anybody confirm this? Hell, I have more beef with this move than Bryan's b+1.

Jive Out!

Yeah Paul's f,f+2:1 just frame is now mid/mid or maybe the ff+2 gains frames and when you try to duck the 1 you get hit. I dunno just that you can't duck the second hit. Really happy with this plus his d+4,2:1+2 is now back the way it was in Tekken 4. Hopefully meaning that if you use the move and the opponent blocks it you don't get that ugly recovery and can continue with the 2:1+2. I don't know if you can now do this with d+1,4,2:1+2 but trully awesome. But if anything I wish they would have made his recovery on d+1 better.

[Sliced]

Bad news for Paul players, turns out ff+2:1 is mid, then high...

http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2115415#post2115415

[Postman~730]

only the inevitable is nigh....US get ready!!!

[Rioting Soul]

Any news?

[Saotome Kaneda]

Bryan CH ws+3 not allowing launchers is OUTSTANDING.

[Rioting Soul]

Bryan CH ws+3 not allowing launchers in OUTSTANDING.

Are you able to play 5.1 in arcades right now? Plz, does Bruce have any new moves?

[Saotome Kaneda]

Are you able to play 5.1 in arcades right now? Plz, does Bruce have any new moves?
I read the thread. =p

I'll find out once 5.1 is installed out here in Oki(which may take a while...).

[Hoonyo]

What are follow-ups after b+1 for Bryan?

[Geronimo]

T5.1 VIDS! (http://homepage.mac.com/kaz.kaz/iMovieTheater22.html)

Video #1 = Steve vs. Marduk
Video #2 = Julia vs. Raven
Video #3 = Roger Jr. vs. Paul
Video #4 = Eddie vs. Eddie

And I dunno if I'm seeing it right...but in Video #1...is that d/f+2 Steve is launching w/...?


Hope that helps.

- Geronimo

[Saotome Kaneda]

What are follow-ups after b+1 for Bryan?
Jab to wall, Wall BS

Jab as far as you can, d+3,2 to wall, Wall BS

Jab as far as you can, 124 to wall, Wall BS

db+2, db+2, 1, ff1, ff2

[Saige]

T5.1 VIDS! (http://homepage.mac.com/kaz.kaz/iMovieTheater22.html)

Video #1 = Steve vs. Marduk
Video #2 = Julia vs. Raven
Video #3 = Roger Jr. vs. Paul
Video #4 = Eddie vs. Eddie

And I dunno if I'm seeing it right...but in Video #1...is that d/f+2 Steve is launching w/...?


Hope that helps.

- Geronimo


Yeah, it launches on counter hit.

[Hydra632]

What are follow-ups after b+1 for Bryan?

My favorite juggle is b+1 f+1~4 B+2,1,2

[Hoonyo]

Jab to wall, Wall BS

Jab as far as you can, d+3,2 to wall, Wall BS

Jab as far as you can, 124 to wall, Wall BS

db+2, db+2, 1, ff1, ff2
My favorite juggle is b+1 f+1~4 B+2,1,2For 5.1 :xeye:

[50 SENT]

For 5.1 :xeye:

just mix ups, nothing guaranteed

[Napalm Kid]

Bryan CH ws+3 not allowing launchers is OUTSTANDING.


imho it should be back to iWS1 ala` Tekken 4.

[Rioting Soul]

For Bryan, is a b,b+4 guaranteed after CH WS+3, f,f+2?

[Saotome Kaneda]

imho it should be back to iWS1 ala` Tekken 4.
Didn't they slow down WS1 even more? It seems that way to me...=/

Then again, if he could get B+1 off of WS3 before....:confused:

[Hoonyo]

just mix ups, nothing guaranteeddamn that's whack-a-mole.

[Napalm Kid]

For Bryan, is a b,b+4 guaranteed after CH WS+3, f,f+2?
Yes, the damage is 81.


Didn't they slow down WS1 even more? It seems that way to me...=/

Then again, if he could get B+1 off of WS3 before....:confused:

imho ws1 is still the same speed.

You can land any number of launcher in 5.0 after ws3, b+1, u/f+4, iws1, iws2 or even f,b+2 <-- that's the gold right there