HARD set tiers

[FusionITR]

What are some games where tiers are so hard set that if you dont pick certain characters you are gone, you have no chance.

The king of this is marvel, thats obvious. But are their any other games where the tiers are that hard set? Interested in knowing because marvel is the only one that comes to mind for me.

[Rave]

Just second hand info, but I heard Last Blade 2 was like that, since Zantestu was so much better than the rest of the characters.

[nanitaberu]

SVC : Geese and Zero

[Manx]

Shaq Fu, Shaq.

[cygnus]

Karai in TMNT: Tournament Fighters. Unless you're a pussy and ban boss characters.

[Hoonyo]

tekken 4 jin

[Jinrai]

Puzzle Fighter.

[Philth]

Akuma in ST.
Duo Luon in KOF.
Jin in Tekken 4.
CBS-A-Sakura/Bison in CVS2.
Storm in XSF.
Sent/Storm/Mag/Cable Marvel.
Darkstalkers in CFJ.
Mech Akuma in MSH.
Steve/Nina in Tekken 5.
V-ism in A3.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Kof 2k3

Duo FUCKING Lon

[Return of Shiki]

Uh...Guile or Dhalsim in SF2: WW, I think...

[SilverGear]

Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike: Ken SAIII/Chun SAII/Yun SAIII

That's the divine trinity right there.

[Superking]

Garou: Kevin Rian
Tobal 2: Mark the Devil (1st Form)

Don't really know the tiers for either Slam Masters game, but The SCORPION was fucking awesome. :encore:

[JamMasterJom]

tekken 4 jin

steve was best in t4, and beat the shit out of jin, and had 0 bad matches

[polarity]

Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike: Ken SAIII/Chun SAII/Yun SAIII

That's the divine trinity right there.

You really think the tiers in 3S are as hard set as in Marvel or KOF2003? The criteria were games in which you have to pick certain characters or you have NO chance. If you think that's the case in 3S then...:confused:

[FusionITR]

You really think the tiers in 3S are as hard set as in Marvel or KOF2003? The criteria were games in which you have to pick certain characters or you have NO chance. If you think that's the case in 3S then...:confused:

^^ Yeah I was about to say... I dont think some people are understanding the question if they are mentioning 3S and CVS2. I'm not familiar with KOF2003 so I wont comment on that. But in 3S you can win with just about anybody besides Sean or Ibuki, in CVS2 the tiers are so loose you can win with nearly anyone. In marvel, if you dont have Cable or Sent on your team you are fucking dead meat. Hell, the tiers are so tight in marvel if you accidently pick the wrong assist you are pretty much dead.

[JamMasterJom]

Yeah MSP you're not winning anymore!

U SUX SHITTY TEAM

[Rico!]

i saw a vid of a KOF2k3 tournament and almost every team was K'/DuoLon/Goro. Pretty damn boring. And each match was about as interesting as a coin flip.

[roninwarrior24]

i saw a vid of a KOF2k3 tournament and almost every team was K'/DuoLon/Goro. Pretty damn boring. And each match was about as interesting as a coin flip.

I was watching some KOF Neowave vids and there is always someone using Choi, Kim, and/or Jhun. Are they top tiers or something, because they (especially Choi) get on my nerves. Is this how all KOFs are? I hope not.

Back to topic: Wasn't MK2 basically "pick Jax or Mileena, if not you die," fest? Usually, games with one or two god tiers are what you call "hard set tiers." Let me list some more:

T4-Jin
TMNT-Karai
SC2-Xianghua
FFT if you count non fighters-Orlandu
MKD-Shujinko
ST-Akuma

You know the rest.

[Magnifico]

if you count non fighters


TMNT 1 - Donatello

[Ry Guy]

Garou: Kevin Rian
Tobal 2: Mark the Devil (1st Form)

Don't really know the tiers for either Slam Masters game, but The SCORPION was fucking awesome. :encore:

Kevin is definately top-tier, but he's not quite good enough to dominate every match.

[BloodRiotIori]

SC2-Xianghua


Is this a joke?

[MrQuotes]

steve was best in t4, and beat the shit out of jin, and had 0 bad matches

steve was not the best in T4, he was just only person who had advantage over jin.

[Hcparker]

^^ Yeah I was about to say... I dont think some people are understanding the question if they are mentioning 3S and CVS2. I'm not familiar with KOF2003 so I wont comment on that. But in 3S you can win with just about anybody besides Sean or Ibuki, in CVS2 the tiers are so loose you can win with nearly anyone. In marvel, if you dont have Cable or Sent on your team you are fucking dead meat. Hell, the tiers are so tight in marvel if you accidently pick the wrong assist you are pretty much dead.

Right now 3s is a game where you can conceivable win with anyone.

The problem is as more time passes and people both learn more about the game and familarity grows, it's becoming increasingly harder and more apparent that to win a major tourney you NEED to pick one of the Trinity.

The only change I could see coming is if another character like Yang is elevated to be as high as Chun and company.

[bbq sauce]

Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike: Ken SAIII/Chun SAII/Yun SAIII

That's the divine trinity right there.
But people are still capable of winning with out them. Kuroda beat Wong's Chun and Ricky O's Ken using Q.

But you won't get nowhere in Marvel with an Anakaris based team.

[ParryAll]

Right now 3s is a game where you can conceivable win with anyone.

The problem is as more time passes and people both learn more about the game and familarity grows, it's becoming increasingly harder and more apparent that to win a major tourney you NEED to pick one of the Trinity.

The only change I could see coming is if another character like Yang is elevated to be as high as Chun and company.

I've seen more big Japanese tournaments where a Makato player wins (J won one and the other not sure his name). Kuroda's Q raped top tier raped Ricky's Ken and Justin's Chun in a major. So don't put so much faith in tiers (as far as 3s goes).

I would say the best players, from what I have seen, are J (Makato), RX (Urien), Daigo (Ken), YSB (Hugo), AB7 (Necro), AFM (Chun), KO (Yun), Kuroda (Q).

KO, RX, AFM, and J I have seen all of these guys win big tournaments. I have also seen a Dudley player win, I've seen Remy, Elena, Oro, Yang, and Ibuki players place very high. So I think the "Trinity" (gay name you made up btw) is a little overrated. It's all about how good the individual is w/ his/her character.

[strakka]

The problem is as more time passes and people both learn more about the game and familarity grows, it's becoming increasingly harder and more apparent that to win a major tourney you NEED to pick one of the Trinity.
Just pick Gill. :clap:

[Saotome Kaneda]

TMNT 1 - Donatello

^^^^^^^^^
FUCKING TRUTH

Don + < 1/2 life damage boost = GGPO

I had to force myself to use the other turtles in order to make the game a challenge half the time. =x

[JamMasterJom]

steve was not the best in T4, he was just only person who had advantage over jin.

im just gonna assume you didnt play t4 then.

what exactly did any character do against the PERFECT turtle character? nothing?

how many tech crouching moves were there in that game anyways? 3?

and lets see, flk cancelled recovery off of any transition into block. what?

dude dont question the shit, just deal with the truth.

Steve >>>>> Jin > everyone else.

[Hcparker]

I've seen more big Japanese tournaments where a Makato player wins (J won one and the other not sure his name). Kuroda's Q raped top tier raped Ricky's Ken and Justin's Chun in a major. So don't put so much faith in tiers (as far as 3s goes).

I would say the best players, from what I have seen, are J (Makato), RX (Urien), Daigo (Ken), YSB (Hugo), AB7 (Necro), AFM (Chun), KO (Yun), Kuroda (Q).

KO, RX, AFM, and J I have seen all of these guys win big tournaments. I have also seen a Dudley player win, I've seen Remy, Elena, Oro, Yang, and Ibuki players place very high. So I think the "Trinity" (gay name you made up btw) is a little overrated. It's all about how good the individual is w/ his/her character.

A)That might have more to do with the players themselves than any character selection.

B)The 'Trinity' is a pretty common nickname for them that's been around awhile and is not something I made up.

[polarity]

A)That might have more to do with the players themselves than any character selection.

Uhh, that's exactly his point. Player skill matters more than what character you play.

[Remy Saotome]

I disagree that MvC2 is so set in stone. A few people out there can do some crazy stuff with Colossus-based teams. MM/Sent/CapCom eats all rush-based teams for breakfast. And many of the top Rogue players argue that she is just as good as if not better than Mags.

[ParryAll]

A)That might have more to do with the players themselves than any character selection.

B)The 'Trinity' is a pretty common nickname for them that's been around awhile and is not something I made up.

A. My point is that it is the player, not the character that decides tourneys. I'm sure J, Kuroda, YSB, AB7, RX, etc. layed waste to tons of really good Ken/Yun/Chun players to get to where they were in tourneys. You said you have to use one of the top 3 to win in tourneys and I think your wrong. My argument is that I have seen just as many big tourneys won by Dudley, Urien, and Makato players as big 3, and I've seen countless other "low tier" users place extremely high.

I think that AFM's Chun is godly though, as is KO's Yun, and Daigo's Ken, but I think that has more to do w/ their abilities and skills as players than because they use "top tier/"Trinity". Just my two cents.

B. Apologies then.

Maybe we should just tier the Japanese players themselves? Heh.

[Hcparker]

A. My point is that it is the player, not the character that decides tourneys. I'm sure J, Kuroda, YSB, AB7, RX, etc. layed waste to tons of really good Ken/Yun/Chun players to get to where they were in tourneys. You said you have to use one of the top 3 to win in tourneys and I think your wrong. My argument is that I have seen just as many big tourneys won by Dudley, Urien, and Makato players as big 3, and I've seen countless other "low tier" users place extremely high.

I think that AFM's Chun is godly though, as is KO's Yun, and Daigo's Ken, but I think that has more to do w/ their abilities and skills as players than because they use "top tier/"Trinity". Just my two cents.


Again I would refer to the second part of my post where I said it was possible that another character like Yang or Dudley would be elevated to be near the same level as Ken, Yun and Chun. As players become adept with certain characters I suspect we'll see something like we saw in CvS2 where after all Sagat was no longer the only 'God tier' character in the game.


Maybe we should just tier the Japanese players themselves? Heh.

That would be interesing and hard. Daigo is probably the best with the Shotos on either side currently playing. As an Alex player I think highly of KSK but I'm not sure where he fits in the overall scheme.

[JamMasterJom]

Again I would refer to the second part of my post where I said it was possible that another character like Yang or Dudley would be elevated to be near the same level as Ken, Yun and Chun. As players become adept with certain characters I suspect we'll see something like we saw in CvS2 where after all Sagat was no longer the only 'God tier' character in the game.

games been out since like '98

tiers arent changing

[Festival6667]

Kevin is definately top-tier, but he's not quite good enough to dominate every match.
Damn right, even with Freeman or The Griffon, IF you know the game, you have a good chance of beating Kevin!

[Hcparker]

games been out since like '98

tiers arent changing

Maybe not but the differences and gaps between them are growing smaller all the time.

[Rico!]

That would be interesing and hard. Daigo is probably the best with the Shotos on either side currently playing. As an Alex player I think highly of KSK but I'm not sure where he fits in the overall scheme.

doesn't ksk ever win any tournies? Its hard being an alex player :sad:

[cricket_egg]

Bloody Roar - Cronos, Uranus, Kohryu, Shen Long ( well, that last one depends on the player )
DOA - Bass, Leon, Tina

[Super Homer]

SSBM: Marth & Roy(I think)

Everyone here(where I live) is either a Roy or Marth user>_<(Well I shouldn't be talking >_>)

[Remy Saotome]

SSBM: Marth & Roy(I think)

Everyone here(where I live) is either a Roy or Marth user>_<(Well I shouldn't be talking >_>)
Umm, no.

SSBM is:
Fox
Marth
Shiek, Peach, Samus, Luigi

[white shadow]

Umm, no.

SSBM is:
Fox
Marth
Shiek, Peach, Samus, Luigi

Umm Luigi ain't that good brotha.

[OhNoos]

I'd ditto whoever said SF2:WW guile, that game was a race to who could pick guile the fastest, otherwise you were stuck with 'sim and 9/10 a loss.

[Agmaster]

Uhh, that's exactly his point. Player skill matters more than what character you play.

...that's not the point of this thread. Stop deviating.

[J.D]

doesn't ksk ever win any tournies? Its hard being an alex player :sad:

fucking right bro :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

[Remy Saotome]

Umm Luigi ain't that good brotha.Are you sure? I know he's near the top. Best wavedash for one thing. I'm almost positive that he's above the Mid Tier. At any rate, I know Fox is above Marth, and Roy well below.

[white shadow]

Are you sure? I know he's near the top. Best wavedash for one thing. I'm almost positive that he's above the Mid Tier. At any rate, I know Fox is above Marth, and Roy well below.

Nope his recovery is random and easily edgeguard-able, and having a fine tuned recovery is absolutely necessary in playing competitively. Having the best wavedash doesn't mean much more than that.:razzy:

[canoshiz]

Top:
Sheik
Fox
Marth

Upper:
Peach
Falco
C. Falcon
Samus

High:
Jigglypuff
Dr. Mario
Ganondorf
Mario
Ice Climbers

Mid:
Luigi
Link
Roy
DK
Pikachu
Zelda

Low:
Ness
Young Link
Yoshi
Kirby
Mr. Game & Watch
Bowser

Bottom:
Mewtwo
Pichu

SSBM isn't THAT broken. Sure, many characters below mid tier don't stand a chance, but you still see the odd high tourney-placer who plays a low character (Kirbykid, NEO, Chu, DireVulcan, etc)

[Remy Saotome]

SSBM isn't THAT broken. Sure, many characters below mid tier don't stand a chance, but you still see the odd high tourney-placer who plays a low character (Kirbykid, NEO, Chu, DireVulcan, etc)Yeah. I was just saying that Roy isn't top like that one guy claimed. Although apparently my tier list was a bit off too. :xeye:

[Lantis]

MSF: Wolverine/Omega Red

You lose at the character select screen. :wasted:

[Super Homer]

Note: I was talking about where I live. >_<

[Wellman]

Jigglypuff is that high? Damn, I always thought of it as a throw away character in the first SSB.