Super Street Fighter II Turbo, in the house

[Jushiness]

hey master chibi how come you never respond to my PMs?

[Maj]

So what exactly are the control problems with AE? Sirlin was complaining about Vega claw dives not working, but i get them like 90% of the time. When i push all three kicks, i get them like 99% of the time.

Also i've heard about WW Guile not being able to control Sonic Boom speed, but that's not quite true either. The speed of the Sonic Boom depends on the strength of the last normal move performed. So you can do DB+LP kara-cancel into F+HP and you get LP Sonic Boom. Or you can do DB+HP kara-cancel into F+LP and you get HP Sonic Boom. I use DB+MP into F+LP for MP Sonic Boom. That's not so bad.

[tataki]

So what exactly are the control problems with AE?
instead of d u k you need to press d k u (it's written in the wiki)

[Graham]

So what exactly are the control problems with AE? Sirlin was complaining about Vega claw dives not working, but i get them like 90% of the time. When i push all three kicks, i get them like 99% of the time.

Try doing the wall dive traps from st, if you can provide a video of them over and over without using the super technique ill be very impressed. This means you need to fast charge and use it as soon as possible. Not after 5 seconds of charging or whatnot.

The only way to do the wall dive consistently that ive found is using the super motion, which never fails to wall dive it seems when used.

[Maj]

tataki: Is that enough of a reason to stop using Vega?

Graham: I've never used Vega before so i'm not sure what his ST trap is. I just picked Vega in training mode and tried the claw dives a few dozen times. It worked almost all the time. Sirlin made it sound like it works one out of five times.

[TheGrape1]

It randomly fucks up. Then you eat something for free. It's way wack and if you rely on it you're screwed.

[Graham]

tataki: Is that enough of a reason to stop using Vega?

Graham: I've never used Vega before so i'm not sure what his ST trap is. I just picked Vega in training mode and tried the claw dives a few dozen times. It worked almost all the time. Sirlin made it sound like it works one out of five times.

Basically it fails enough to make the wall trap impossible to execute. Watch some japanese vegas play and when they repeatedly go off the wall thats the wall trap, its a technique that makes vega unfair vs alot of characters.

[Maj]

Graham: That's understandable. I'm not trying to force anyone to play Vega. He's annoying as hell. Just trying to figure out the problem.

Here's the way i was doing it:

Charge DB, LK, U+MK, HK (press the kicks very quickly, like doing a reversal with all three buttons)

This way even if you screw up, you just whiff a short. It doesn't exactly leave you open. I can understand not wanting to deal with the extra effort, but if any Vega specialists from Japan show up to Evo, they probably won't drop Vega for this reason alone.

[Graham]

Graham: That's understandable. I'm not trying to force anyone to play Vega. He's annoying as hell. Just trying to figure out the problem.

Here's the way i was doing it:

Charge DB, LK, U+MK, HK (press the kicks very quickly, like doing a reversal with all three buttons)

This way even if you screw up, you just whiff a short. It doesn't exactly leave you open. I can understand not wanting to deal with the extra effort, but if any Vega specialists from Japan show up to Evo, they probably won't drop Vega for this reason alone.

I play vega as a regular character, he is fine, its just important to not rely on that move in clutch situations, but it doesnt matter if you do the super motion version, since that one never fails.

[Tantin]

Watching the EvoWest videos, I see Valle throwing a lot of jumpforward-shorts with HFSagat, namely against Watson. Is this an accident or intentional?

[TheGrape1]

Graham: That's understandable. I'm not trying to force anyone to play Vega. He's annoying as hell. Just trying to figure out the problem.

Here's the way i was doing it:

Charge DB, LK, U+MK, HK (press the kicks very quickly, like doing a reversal with all three buttons)

This way even if you screw up, you just whiff a short. It doesn't exactly leave you open. I can understand not wanting to deal with the extra effort, but if any Vega specialists from Japan show up to Evo, they probably won't drop Vega for this reason alone.

If you go to the wall behind Vega, you're fine, usually. If you go to the other it glitches and what's worse is if you point up and forward the flip kick executes often. Both leave Vega wide open.

[r3ko]

What version of the game are you using, because i think they removed the vega wall dive glitch for xbox version.

[Tantin]

If you go to the wall behind Vega, you're fine, usually. If you go to the other it glitches and what's worse is if you point up and forward the flip kick executes often. Both leave Vega wide open.

Is there a problem with going to the back wall?

[Hol Horse]

afaik the CPS2 version of HSF2 didn't have the wall-dive glitch. If that's true, it's gonna be major pain for the japanese players, since they play the CPS2 version if anything.

I think Xbox version should be played at EVO

[r3ko]

Its should def be PS2 version, as most people prob using ps2 pads and sticks. And converters are a fickle thing, you either bring your own which can easily get lost and can be hard to find one which works with your stick. If evo supply them, they got to get multiple copies of many different converters for all the different sticks.

[Master Chibi]

hey master chibi how come you never respond to my PMs?

I'm a somewhat lazy person, sorry.

Send me another one and I'll drop you a line.

[Saotome Kaneda]

I'm an extremely lazy person, sorry.

fixed for you

[Graham]

afaik the CPS2 version of HSF2 didn't have the wall-dive glitch. If that's true, it's gonna be major pain for the japanese players, since they play the CPS2 version if anything.

I think Xbox version should be played at EVO

I already asked about this months ago. They dont want to buy all new copies of the game since they use hsae for 3rd strike too.

Its been announced itll be on ps2 and thats what itll be played on. And another thing. Because its going to be a major pain for the japanese we should fix it? but its already been a pain for the americans and you never spoke up about fixing it.

Is it just me or is this thread full of japanese lovers?

[NKI]

Is it just me or is this thread full of japanese lovers?You are correct.

But what he was saying is that the Japs probably don't even know this issue exists, because it's not in the arcade version, and that's what they play.

[CapMaster]

What is this Vega wall trap/glitch? I play Vega seriously and I want to make sure if somehow I don't already know this, that I know it..

[ToXY]

Pretty sure the "wall trap" they are talking about is when your opponent is knocked down you do a walldive when they wake up, and keep changing sides so its confusing for them to block, if it hits them they fall down and you repeat....
thats the only thing i can think of that it can be anyway heh.

[lee.w]

Watching the EvoWest videos, I see Valle throwing a lot of jumpforward-shorts with HFSagat, namely against Watson. Is this an accident or intentional?



where did you see the evo west vids:lovin:

[NKI]

trap = where you just keep doing ambiguous cross-up meaty wall dives as the opponent gets up

glitch = have to input his wall dive as [charge down, kick, up] in the PS2 version of AE

[Maj]

Watching the EvoWest videos, I see Valle throwing a lot of jumpforward-shorts with HFSagat, namely against Watson. Is this an accident or intentional?
I don't remember Valle doing jump shorts. He did a bunch of random Tiger Knees though.
Is it just me or is this thread full of japanese lovers?
I don't know if this refers to me at all, but what i meant about Japanese players adapting is that the AE command for Vega's claw dives is smiliar to CvS2 roll cancel commands and they are already used to those.

[Master Chibi]

Chibi, you are so awesomeness.

Oh Saotome, you're the bestest!

:lovin:

[NKI]

Updated the Wiki with a small section on The Yoga Book Hyper. The particular item of interest is the "Ammendments/Corrections" section:
http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo#The_Yoga_Book_Hyper

[r3ko]

NKI, would it be possible to get a translation of the strats and interview parts of the book. I'm really frustrated, after having spending alot of money on this ages ago, that no one has attempted to translate it.

[Kyokuji]

Vega is bullshit.
Anything that messes his game up is fine by me.
That wake-up wall trap is the very definition of 50-50, and it's just wrong.

[NKI]

NKI, would it be possible to get a translation of the strats and interview parts of the book. I'm really frustrated, after having spending alot of money on this ages ago, that no one has attempted to translate it.Please realize that what you're asking would require a huge amount of time, especially if I'm the only one doing it. I don't mind translating stuff for people, but you'd have to really narrow it down. Tell me a specific page and section that you want translated, and I'll do my best. :tup:

[r3ko]

I wasn't talking about you translating it, but if your up to it thats great. I was kinda hoping there wuda been something out there already. I aint got my copy with me atm, but i shud be able to tell you the pages i am most interested in when i get it back.

[jaminbenjamin]

You must translate the name of every move for every charcter, starting with DJ's Funky Punch.

[JumpsuitJesse]

Just wondering if anyone else besides NKI, DSP and myself has plans to contribute to the ST Wiki. I am touching on it whenever I have the chance but as I browsed through the other characters I saw nothing.

With such a wealth of knowledge on these boards it would be nice to see some of it in the wiki.

[laugh]

Just wondering if anyone else besides NKI, DSP and myself has plans to contribute to the ST Wiki. I am touching on it whenever I have the chance but as I browsed through the other characters I saw nothing.

With such a wealth of knowledge on these boards it would be nice to see some of it in the wiki.

I went over to the wiki page and started editing stuff for Ken, but I made a mistake and deleted the introduction header from his page. Someone fix this, I don't know how to do things on wiki. Meanwhile, I'll try to add stuff to the other sections he has without deleting their header.

[A_Wolfe]

Just wondering if anyone else besides NKI, DSP and myself has plans to contribute to the ST Wiki. I am touching on it whenever I have the chance but as I browsed through the other characters I saw nothing.

With such a wealth of knowledge on these boards it would be nice to see some of it in the wiki.

You guys have done a good job, I will definity post in the Sim section and other parts when I have time.

[r3ko]

excuse me, i was the first person to add anything decent for a specific character to the wiki :wgrin:

[JumpsuitJesse]

You guys have done a good job, I will definity post in the Sim section and other parts when I have time.

Can't wait to read it. It's tough as hell writing "strats" for Fei Long because he doesn't really have a set of strats that are rock solid. All of his matchups are fought on the fly.

I like how you(or was it your brother?)spoke about risk factors and percentages in regards to reversals and attacks. It plays a big role in ST overall, IMO.

[Graham]

Can't wait to read it. It's tough as hell writing "strats" for Fei Long because he doesn't really have a set of strats that are rock solid. All of his matchups are fought on the fly.

I like how you(or was it your brother?)spoke about risk factors and percentages in regards to reversals and attacks. It plays a big role in ST overall, IMO.

yup those percentages are everything, funny enough ive been incorporating that multiple button pressing into my game play now after seeing how effective it was in the gief test.

NKI I noticed something odd that i wasnt too surprised at but it confirms my suspicion on how AE ignores special commands on occasion. I was pressing the KKK or PPP buttons and getting low short sometimes. Instead of a flip with vega.

You claim flashkick for vega is d,k,u? Are you saying if i do this command ill be able to consistently fly off the wall? without mistake?

[Tantin]

I don't remember Valle doing jump shorts. He did a bunch of random Tiger Knees though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otvb-AlynJQ&search=Evo%20West

There's about eight before the third match.

[Graham]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otvb-AlynJQ&search=Evo%20West

There's about eight before the third match.

Its a valle bait technique he uses with sagat, he jumps with short and people think they can low kick him as he is coming down then he tiger uppercuts their attack. He eventually succeeds after like 6 attempts.

[Tantin]

Couldn't Guile just hit him with standing strong or crouching fierce?

[Dasrik]

You must translate the name of every move for every charcter, starting with DJ's Funky Punch.
Don't forget to defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.

[Maj]

There's about eight before the third match.
Hm, who knows? Valle logic is mysterious like the jungles of Peru.

[Graham]

Couldn't Guile just hit him with standing strong or crouching fierce?

The range he is doing it at is fairly safe, most bait techniques are meant to work on good players. Its a relatively good technique imo, pretty safe with high reward.

[TheGrape1]

Its a valle bait technique he uses with sagat, he jumps with short and people think they can low kick him as he is coming down then he tiger uppercuts their attack. He eventually succeeds after like 6 attempts.

The bait has been around longer than Valle. You really have little reason to guess. While in the air the motion is being done so just watch the opponent upon landing to decide to hit the button. Hella common bait and it's not only Sagat.

I guess this wasn't used at ALL in NorCal. heheh Not surprised:P

[laugh]

About Watson (ce guile) vs Valle (hf sagat) vid, Valle could've reversal tiger kneed after getting hit by guile's knee bazuka during his low tiger recovery.

[r3ko]

Just like to say i had an excellent set of CE games with Brian "wolfe's reversal king buddy" on kaillera. He came out on top, but i managed to sneak in 3 or 4 perfects on him. Real close games all round. Wish i would of recorded em now, cause some of the games were excellent. Just sorry we got disconnected. If your reading Brian, great games. You'll have to get ST working on your comp so we can have some real matches.

[Graham]

The bait has been around longer than Valle. You really have little reason to guess. While in the air the motion is being done so just watch the opponent upon landing to decide to hit the button. Hella common bait and it's not only Sagat.

I guess this wasn't used at ALL in NorCal. heheh Not surprised:P

I've used it, i was just saying its something valle does still. I still use it with my sagat in a variation. Lots of old school nor cal did similar shit with ryu etc.

Nor cal was the mecca of st, i'd be surprised if you knew 1/10th the shit we knew back then =P

[TheGrape1]

I've used it, i was just saying its something valle does still. I still use it with my sagat in a variation. Lots of old school nor cal did similar shit with ryu etc.

Nor cal was the mecca of st, i'd be surprised if you knew 1/10th the shit we knew back then =P

I may have to give you that, dammit! SoCal started chillin' around then. This is AE though and SoCal was the mecca prior so, we're all going to have some intense matches goin' on for sure!

BTW, I don't know if you ever got that message about Honda and Sim but, though it's a decent match I would give Honda a slight edge but, what do you two think?

[Graham]

I may have to give you that, dammit! SoCal started chillin' around then. This is AE though and SoCal was the mecca prior so, we're all going to have some intense matches goin' on for sure!

BTW, I don't know if you ever got that message about Honda and Sim but, though it's a decent match I would give Honda a slight edge but, what do you two think?

honda can do ok unless the sim is well trained, then he has no chance at all.

[Kyokuji]

Agreed, but one screw up from 'Sim can leave him in a lot of trouble if Honda gets close enough to start command throw mix-ups.

[Graham]

Yup but its the same for most chars vs honda. Not very easy to mess up vs him as opposed to someone like balrog.

I have a question of my own which i cant solve in training mode...
Does anyone know how balrog does combos involving 2 dash with short or short dash into super when the short hits? I've seen various vids of multiple charge moves being used without enough charge time between them. Whats the trick to this?

[ShinjiGohan]

off hand (if inputs are the same as they are in SFEX), is that you are able to hold back 8 frames after you hit forward to press punch. Which would give you another 8 or so frames to charge back,

back (60 frames)
forward (1 frame)
back (7 frames)
back+short (53 frames)
foward (1 frame)
back (1 frame)
forward+fierce (1 frame)

Or if it hits really quick you might be able to do this

back (60 frames)
forward+short (1frame)
back (9 frames)
forward (8frames)
fierce (1+frames)

essentially using the first motion to perform the first part of the super. But thats just a theory.

[SweetJohnnyV]

Does anyone know how balrog does combos involving 2 dash with short or short dash into super when the short hits? I've seen various vids of multiple charge moves being used without enough charge time between them. Whats the trick to this?

I don't play charge characters as much as others, so I may be off on this, but I believe you can execute your charge move by pressing back + button. And, if I recall correctly, this is the key to getting a little bit more charge time to allow combos like that to happen. So, for instance:

charge back
forward (no button)
back + button
...as move is ending
forward + button

I'm not sure how many frames you can hold back before pressing the button(probably not many), but I think in certain scenarios it's enough to make new combos possible.

[margalis]

Maj can probably answer better than I, but we talked about this a couple pages back.

If you do say jab->rush, you get more charge time in than just doing a rush. It doesn't seem like that should be the case but it is.

This is because when someone is hit in SF games the game animation stops for a bit. (This is the most apparent in the 3 series, but it happens in all games) This is why whiff low shorts look so much faster than low shorts that hit.

So when you do something like jab->rush, after you input the jab->rush and then hold down/back onscreen your character is still hitting with jab and hasn't even started the rush animation yet. So you get to charge longer than you would otherwise because you not only charge for the full duration of the rush but also for some of the jab hit duration.

The particular combo I've seen is short rush, standing short (I think, this was HF rog but I think it is standing short and not jab), short rush. I have no idea how tight the timing on that is - pretty tight I imagine.

[FMJaguar]

Yup but its the same for most chars vs honda. Not very easy to mess up vs him as opposed to someone like balrog.

I have a question of my own which i cant solve in training mode...
Does anyone know how balrog does combos involving 2 dash with short or short dash into super when the short hits? I've seen various vids of multiple charge moves being used without enough charge time between them. Whats the trick to this?

I cannot confirm it's correctness, but i just remembered seeing it a long time ago about precharging specials (point 1)

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12960

Or if thats not enough time, maybe that + whatever maj is talking about or something.

[Zaelar]

(about the kkk thing with vega backflips on the previous page)

Were you holding another kick down when you pressed kkk? At least in all the games I tested having a second button with the same command listed to it won't press a button twice, so if you are holding roundhouse, the kkk will only register as pressing the two other kicks. In a somewhat related note, i've managed to get shoryukens with Akuma in a3 and cvs2 using ppp, and i'm pretty sure I wasn't holding other buttons. It's very rare, like once or twice a year that I see it. Just leads me to believe that ppp/kkk buttons aren't completely accurate.

I look forward to something going on the Dhalsim page. So far i'm limited to mimicking the evo west vids.

I'd like to know, what are Sim's anti-air options, other than roundhouse before they jump. Take the hit -> noogies isn't reliable(just really good when it works), he doesn't seem to have any jumping moves that would work well as his jump isn't fast enough, I wasn't having much success with back+fierce or jab, and slide seems random. This was mostly against Chibi's Chun-Li.

[Saotome Kaneda]

3P/3K in CvS2/HSF makes you do FP/RH respectively for both games, some of the others force Jab/Short. It depends on how the game handles overlapping commands and shit. I'll post more later when I remember the real reasons.

[Graham]

I'd like to know, what are Sim's anti-air options, other than roundhouse before they jump. Take the hit -> noogies isn't reliable(just really good when it works), he doesn't seem to have any jumping moves that would work well as his jump isn't fast enough, I wasn't having much success with back+fierce or jab, and slide seems random. This was mostly against Chibi's Chun-Li.

Vs Chun li anti airs
Standing strong close if she is above or coming in close to your head
from a distance use jumping back and fierce it takes timing to learn how to use properly. When you're cornered and she is jumping in near your head you can slide under her and throw her.
If you dont got room to do either of those, block.

[ToXY]

I have a question of my own which i cant solve in training mode...
Does anyone know how balrog does combos involving 2 dash with short or short dash into super when the short hits? I've seen various vids of multiple charge moves being used without enough charge time between them. Whats the trick to this?

I have no idea how to do to dash with short in a row, but to short dash into super you do it charge back, towards + short, back, towards + punch (just like the same command as when the short dash whiffs and you go into super, im pretty sure i seen you use it in your vids) anyway the motion is exactly the same, but if the short dash hits the timing is just 100x harder than if it had whiffed.

[Maj]

ST Balrog uses the same charge to do both the rush and the super. The command looks like:

Charge DB, F+LK, B, F+P

To get a feel for the timing, just try doing the super by itself using the slowest possible motions. You'll notice that the game is really lenient with the command. Rog's LK Dash Upper is 25 frames total and LP Dash Straight is 29 frames total. Both of those can fit comfortably within the acceptable command window for the super. Of course this is an ST-only thing, because most other Capcom games only let you use the same charge for one move. But multiple uses of the same charge are all over the place in ST, most notably with Chun Li's fireball into super.

The timing for this becomes way more difficult if Rog's Dash Upper connects, because that adds a bunch of extra frames to the animation. That "25 frames total" turns into at least 35 frames total, which means you have to space out your super inputs with even more precision. Doing whiff Dash Upper into super is practical but combo'ing Dash Upper into super is TZW material. You can do it in Training Mode maybe one out of 50 tries but don't expect to land it in a match. I'm pretty sure combo'ing Dash Straight into super is impossible, or at least requires a specialized setup. Getting the super to come out after the Dash Upper connects is actually kinda manageable once you get used to the timing, but getting it to combo is really difficult because it's like a 2 or 3 frame link. It helps to push all the punch/kick buttons like you're doing a reversal.

Then there's the subject of CE/HF Balrog. His Dash Uppers seem to give him waaaay more frame advantage than their ST counterparts, so he has time to do s.LK xx LK Dash Upper, pause for a split second, and still combo another s.LK xx Dash Upper. To maximize your chances of landing this combo, use the following command:

Charge DB,
B+LK, F, Charge B+LK, (do this part as quickly as possible to minimize recharge delay)
wait a split-second after the Dash Upper finishes
B+LK,
allow the s.LK to connect and wait out a portion of the impact freeze while charging
F+LK

If you optimize everything, CE/HF Rog can actually use impact freeze on the s.LK and the frame advantage on the LK Dash Upper to do "s.LK xx LK Dash Upper, LK Dash Upper" as a 3-hit combo, but it's not practical at all. Of course, combo'ing two LK Dash Uppers in a row is impossible without the preceding normal move to extend charge time. Strangely enough, there's some old HF tutorial video on ComboVideos.com that has this combo, but they actually fuck it up because it's too difficult. If you look closely, you can see the opponent recovering from hit stun before the second Dash Upper connects.

If you haven't seen this video yet, it does a great job of showing all of the charge tricks in ST taken to impractical extremes:
http://page.freett.com/zerokoubou/movie.htm


Now if you want to get into a little bit more detail ... Sorry guys, you are not asking for a short or straightforward discussion. Most charge tricks are very simple, but the restrictions/overlaps are fairly arbitrary and not completely sorted out. Some charge tricks can be combined with others, but many don't let you mix-and-match. Keeping track of it all is a challenge.

Most of my experience is with Guile, since i play Shotos in almost every game and usually avoid charge characters. One of the restrictions i referenced is that you can't precharge the same move. So if you use ShinjiGohan's suggested method of tapping forward then holding back for 7 frames before you complete the special move command with a button, those 7 frames don't count towards the next Sonic Boom. In terms of practical match play, it's still a good idea to use this method because otherwise you lose charge frames while you are moving the stick from F+P to DB. If you do F then DB+P, you start recharging immediately without any gap. Now, it seems like those 7 frames do count towards a Flash Kick charge. Unfortunately since Guile only has two special moves, i'm not sure whether this means that you can't precharge the same move or the same direction twice in a row.

The whole "impact freeze" exploit bypasses the "same move twice" limitation because technically you complete the command for the first one while your character is frozen in impact animation. It lets you recharge as soon as you complete the command with a button press. Since you're stuck in impact freeze, then it could take up to 12 frames between when you complete the command for the special move and when the special move actually starts up. In this situation, you get full credit for those 12 frames, or however many you managed to collect depending on the accuracy of your execution.

[Zaelar]

Vs Chun li anti airs
Standing strong close if she is above or coming in close to your head
from a distance use jumping back and fierce it takes timing to learn how to use properly. When you're cornered and she is jumping in near your head you can slide under her and throw her.
If you dont got room to do either of those, block.

Thanks, exactly the information I was looking for.

[Footsy Bebop]

Anyone know where I can download the SBO ST matches featuring Daigo, Otochun and some Guile player?

[Khiempossible]

http://page.freett.com/zerokoubou/movie.htm



Link fails btw.

[r3ko]

Anyone know where I can download the SBO ST matches featuring Daigo, Otochun and some Guile player?

I think theres some of them at orochinagi.com in the downloads section. I think the guile player is kurahashi?

[NKI]

I went over to the wiki page and started editing stuff for Ken, but I made a mistake and deleted the introduction header from his page.Fixed. :smile:

NKI I noticed something odd that i wasnt too surprised at but it confirms my suspicion on how AE ignores special commands on occasion. I was pressing the KKK or PPP buttons and getting low short sometimes. Instead of a flip with vega.Did you have 3P or 3K set to a single button, or were you manually pressing all three? I don't have much experience with AE, so this might be another bug (like the wall dive bug).

You claim flashkick for vega is d,k,u? Are you saying if i do this command ill be able to consistently fly off the wall? without mistake?I haven't tried it myself, but that's what I've heard.

You must translate the name of every move for every charcter, starting with DJ's Funky Punch.I'd rather start with T.Hawk's close st.Jab, which is called "The Condor Beak".

I am not joking. :confused:

Anyone know where I can download the SBO ST matches featuring Daigo, Otochun and some Guile player?You asked this question back on page 76, and I answered it on page 77.

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3229786#post3229786

I wish people would have actually read that post...:sad:

Link fails btw.
Works fine for me...
http://page.freett.com/zerokoubou/movie.htm

By the way, a long while back sombody asked for komoda Blanka vids. You can find some on this page:

http://streetfighter.jugem.jp/?cid=7

Scroll down about 3/4ths of the way. The filebank.co.jp links and the samaso.mine.nu links don't work, but the Hameko.net links work. Also, you can only download one file at a time. If you start to download a second file, the first one will just stop.

Starting with the first Hameko.net link (filename = x0925_1.wmv), it goes:

batayan vs. tsuujii
Shooting D vs. ani-Ken
kusumondo vs. oto-Chun

mori Sagat vs. Ani-Ken

ani-Ken vs. Shooting D 1
ani-Ken vs. Shooting D 2
ani-Ken vs. Shooting D 3

gotoo vs. mayakon
ABC vs. suzuki
tsuujii vs. ani-Ken

oto-Chun vs. ani-Ken
ani-Ken vs. oto-Chun
ani-Ken vs. oto-Chun

Shooting D vs. komoda Blanka
mayakon vs. komoda Blanka
Shooting D vs. mayakon

komoda Blanka vs. mayakon
Shooting D vs. komoda Blanka
Shooting D vs. mayakon

[Toodles]

3P/3K in CvS2/HSF makes you do FP/RH respectively for both games, some of the others force Jab/Short. It depends on how the game handles overlapping commands and shit. I'll post more later when I remember the real reasons.
I don't know the reasons, but arcade ST does jab or short for PPP/KKK inputs, both for specials and normals.

As for Claw, I too have had more problems doing a PPP or KKK backflip than would be considered normal. It really feels that there is absolutely no play in the input; all three feel like they must be pressed on the same frame. I remember it specifically on the xbox version; ps2 may have been the same.

[Shirts]

I may have to give you that, dammit! SoCal started chillin' around then. This is AE though and SoCal was the mecca prior so, we're all going to have some intense matches goin' on for sure!

BTW, I don't know if you ever got that message about Honda and Sim but, though it's a decent match I would give Honda a slight edge but, what do you two think?

I'd say about 70/30 in favor of Dhalsim.

[Graham]

I don't know the reasons, but arcade ST does jab or short for PPP/KKK inputs, both for specials and normals.

As for Claw, I too have had more problems doing a PPP or KKK backflip than would be considered normal. It really feels that there is absolutely no play in the input; all three feel like they must be pressed on the same frame. I remember it specifically on the xbox version; ps2 may have been the same.

Yes the timing on the triple button presses is shitty on the ae version.

NKI, I was using the bindable KKK and PPP buttons and it wasnt doing the flip sometimes. Its because AE for ps2, not sure about xbox, has major glitches in it. These glitches include basic moves such as fireballs failing to happen for some characters. I wish i knew exactly what causes the errors but my brother and i have known it for some time. An example is ce sagat instead of hf sagat, ce sagat fails tiger fireballs much more frequently than hf sagat. This isnt something that ive had happen alone. We watched choi complain about it when his ce sagat did 3 standing roundhouses in a row when he attempted to do low tigers, this happens to me as well, one of the reasons i dont pick sagat anymore. my theory is that it occurs more frequently with the older versions of characters. But who knows the truth and what the trigger is to the inconsistency.

[A_Wolfe]

I guess this wasn't used at ALL in NorCal. heheh Not surprised:P

Lol, what is this. Are you serioius. HA! JK :P

BTW, I don't know if you ever got that message about Honda and Sim but, though it's a decent match I would give Honda a slight edge but, what do you two think?

Graham is pretty much right on with his response, which is really the same for most Sim matches. Most characters do good against Sim. But a well trained Sim is good against any character.

[Maj]

You gotta remember that half of these games originally ran on different hardware than the other half. Also, half of these games (WW, CE, SSF2) ran at super slow base speed while HF runs at some ghetto fast speed with hella random frame skipping. It's possible that the command input windows for HF and ST were extended back in the day to make up for the fact that the game runs so much faster and that frames are skipping all over the place. Maybe they forgot to do this for the slow games in AE. I mean, CE Sagat is running way faster in AE than he was ever meant to run. The whole mess is bound to have some oversights.

[Footsy Bebop]

You asked this question back on page 76, and I answered it on page 77.

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3229786#post3229786

I wish people would have actually read that post...:sad:




Yeah I know about the orochinagi.com site, but you have to actually pay for it now!! I was just wondering if it's anywhere on the net for free :wgrin:

Thanks for the KomodaBlanka vids, I think I was the guy who asked for them. That guy truly is an innovator with his ST Blanka, great tricks.

[NKI]

Footsy Bebop - Wow, are you serious? That's whack. If I still have them at home, I'll upload them.

And about all these AE problems...those are also whack. I like AE less and less every day...:sad:

[Khiempossible]

You don't have to pay to use orochinagi, they've still got free user downloads.

and the movie link itself fails me, I get 404 error when I click it, the link works, but the movie link on the site doesn't.

[Maj]

Link fails btw.
Hm, i didn't think to check the download link, sorry. I can't find it on CV either. I can mirror it for about a week so that anyone currently following the discussion can take a look.

http://lowfierce.com/zrandom/movie07.mpg

Btw NKI, i noticed you cleaned up your frame data page. Looks nice!

[Footsy Bebop]

You don't have to pay to use orochinagi, they've still got free user downloads.

and the movie link itself fails me, I get 404 error when I click it, the link works, but the movie link on the site doesn't.

I don't know when I clicked on their "free download server" it transfers me to a page where it says this file is for paying members only, and then it gives options to pay for a month or a year.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

[NKI]

Hm, i didn't think to check the download link, sorry. I can't find it on CV either. I can mirror it for about a week so that anyone currently following the discussion can take a look.

http://lowfierce.com/zrandom/movie07.mpgGrab that vid while you can, 'cause it is HOT.

Btw NKI, i noticed you cleaned up your frame data page. Looks nice!Thanks! Glad someone actually looks at that stuff. :tup:


I don't know when I clicked on their "free download server" it transfers me to a page where it says this file is for paying members only, and then it gives options to pay for a month or a year.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong?Regardless, I've always found that site to be a pain in the ass, so I'll upload the vids when I get a chance.

[Footsy Bebop]

By the way, a long while back sombody asked for komoda Blanka vids. You can find some on this page:

http://streetfighter.jugem.jp/?cid=7




I tried those links, they don't seem to be working now. Or is it just my connection?

[Footsy Bebop]

If you haven't seen this video yet, it does a great job of showing all of the charge tricks in ST taken to impractical extremes:
http://page.freett.com/zerokoubou/movie.htm





Great video! Learned a couple things, but also found some things confusing.

Are all those combos legit?

Like the first combo with Guile, he doesn't even charge down for his super. He's not doing a two in one with it cuz he does standing forward, standing jab, then super. Can Guile store his charge for his super somehow like Chun and Honda?

And the first Chun combo, I get everything up until she does her upkicks, it looks like she actually takes a step or two FORWARD before doing the upkicks, is that possible.

And then the Chun combo that comes later on, she does fierce, fierce fireball?, into standing strong, super. I've tried this combo but can never get the standing strong to connect after the fireball.

[Maj]

The Guile combo incorporates the two normal moves into the super motion, similarly to how Balrog can incorporate LK Dash Upper into his super motion. It looks like this:

Charge DB, neutral s.MK, DF, DB, neutral s.LP, U+K

Chun and Guile and everyone else can take a step before doing charge moves. The easiest way to see this is with something like Chun's fireball. Charge B, hold F and wait a little bit before pushing a punch button. She'll take a step forward and then do FB. You get somewhere around the neighborhood of 5-10 frames inbetween inputs for special moves, and somewhere between 10-15 frames for super moves.

Chun's s.HP xx HP FB into s.MP xx super is done using her ability to store charge. When you do F+HP for the fireball, hold F and you'll store the super. Then when you push kick you'll get the super automatically. You can cancel any (cancelable) punch attack into the super, or even DF+MK into the super if you wanna get fancy. Actually getting the FB into s.MP to combo is entirely a spacing issue. It's very picky and not at all practical. The same goes for that Rog combo where he does a couple of Dash Uppers. It's not an accident that he picked Fei Long as the opponent. I bet that combo only works on like two characters in the game, because you need the opponent to reel back a certain way so that the Dash Upper hits a little meaty so you get more frame advantage.

That whole video is legit, but all sorts of advanced.

[Footsy Bebop]

Chun and Guile and everyone else can take a step before doing charge moves. The easiest way to see this is with something like Chun's fireball. Charge B, hold F and wait a little bit before pushing a punch button. She'll take a step forward and then do FB. You get somewhere around the neighborhood of 5-10 frames inbetween inputs for special moves, and somewhere between 10-15 frames for super moves.


I get how you can take a step forward with Chun's fireball. I actually use that in gameplay when an opponent is just running away at the other end of the screen so that the fireball fades out before it hits them. I inch forward little by little by doing that step forward fireball, so it actually does have a practical use. But how do you step forward and upkick? going forward is not part of how you execute the move like her fireball. Do you do the upkick from down to forward jump to get her to take a step forward before the upkick?

Also, I noticed you're in the LA area, interested in some practice matches? I'm tired of the same old people on Xbox Live.

[Maj]

Um, i guess you can do it like a slow Tiger Knee motion. It takes a few frames to go from ducking animation to walking animation, so you won't be able to walk forward as far as you would if you do FB from holding back. Incidentally, if you find the step forward FB useful, you should always do it from holding B instead of holding DB, because you'll get more distance that way.

There really isn't anywhere in LA to play OG SF2 games. I was gonna suggesting meeting up at Family Fun but the oldest games they have are A2 and A3. A2 has been broken for months, and most of their machines haven't been repaired in forever.

[~TeN~]

Any1 got any new ARG vids?

[Footsy Bebop]

Actually you have to do it from DB, for it to be useful in the situation I was describing because the whole point was to gain ground on your opponent while keeping a charge.

I think Family Fun should be getting an SFAE machine in? I think I read that on the FFA Thread. If you're near Cal Poly Pomona, they actually have a very good ST cabinet, everything works! Oh and I think the Burbank Media Center has an Ultracade with Hyper Fighting.

[NKI]

I tried those links, they don't seem to be working now. Or is it just my connection?I just re-verified it, and I didn't have any problems. Please make sure you read everything I wrote below.

By the way, a long while back sombody asked for komoda Blanka vids. You can find some on this page:

http://streetfighter.jugem.jp/?cid=7

Scroll down about 3/4ths of the way. The filebank.co.jp links and the samaso.mine.nu links don't work, but the Hameko.net links work. Also, you can only download one file at a time. If you start to download a second file, the first one will just stop.

[Zaelar]

Where can I find that frame data?

This thread moves too fast to keep up with :o

[722]

I'm having a lot of trouble with (and try to figure this one out...) Chun vs. Dictator. I always felt like Chun should win this fight, and NKI mentions it as one of the advantageous matchups in the wiki, but I can't make it come together.

I'm in control for most of the match, but if I give that control away just once I have a lot of trouble dealing with his pressure and might be down to 20% life before I have any breathing room at all. I have some really specific questions about this:

For the Dic player in question, his strings look something like:

Scissor kick, close short x n, then guess between throw or low forward into scissor kick, repeat.

I'm not incredibly familiar with Dic, so that might not be what's going on -- it just looks like that.

The problem I have with this is in the event that I actually correctly guess he's going to throw I can get out, but if he just does lather-rinse-repeat rushdown strings and I don't have meter I have no idea what to do.

I'd appreciate any advice anyone has on this matchup. If I don't beat Dic to super and preferably kill him before he gets his, my odds of winning are very low -- and it's usually a slow, grueling loss too...:sad:

[Graham]

I'm having a lot of trouble with (and try to figure this one out...) Chun vs. Dictator. I always felt like Chun should win this fight, and NKI mentions it as one of the advantageous matchups in the wiki, but I can't make it come together.

I'm in control for most of the match, but if I give that control away just once I have a lot of trouble dealing with his pressure and might be down to 20% life before I have any breathing room at all. I have some really specific questions about this:

For the Dic player in question, his strings look something like:

Scissor kick, close short x n, then guess between throw or low forward into scissor kick, repeat.

I'm not incredibly familiar with Dic, so that might not be what's going on -- it just looks like that.

The problem I have with this is in the event that I actually correctly guess he's going to throw I can get out, but if he just does lather-rinse-repeat rushdown strings and I don't have meter I have no idea what to do.

I'd appreciate any advice anyone has on this matchup. If I don't beat Dic to super and preferably kill him before he gets his, my odds of winning are very low -- and it's usually a slow, grueling loss too...:sad:

VS CE Bison, just realized you're asking about ST though

The traps are basic, 2 moves, scissor kick, repeat. The break point is after the 2 moves, you can either do a special move to get out, or a regular move. Generally a regular move like standing jab is low risk, special move is a good guaranteed way out if they actually do the scissor kick. The throw usually occurs after the scissor kick, or they go into 2 regular move pattern. So what I recommend is attempting a throw after the scissor kick, if that fails, then do a standing jab after the 2 attacks. If your jab connects you can jump toward him while he is falling and lock him down. If your jab whiffs since he waited, jump straight up/back/toward depending on your choice of strat, in either case you've escaped the precarious position.

[Footsy Bebop]

If you're talking about CE Dictator his scissor kick trap can be tough to get out of.

When he does the scissor kick you can try to reverse it with either the upkick or her spinning bird kick/helicopter kick. I think the helicopter kick is probably better it should also reverse the throw because if you miss with the helicopter kick you'll still probably trade or tag him on the way down, but if you miss with the upkick, you're left wide open.

Chun's jumping forward kick beats his psycho crusher clean with the right distancing. If you jump backwards with forward, it should stuff any repeated psycho crusher tactics. Also CE Dictator doesn't have a real anti air answer for Chun's jumping forward, ST Dictator can use standing fierce to try and stuff it which will end up most likely in a trade in his favor. CE Dictator might try to trade hits or go under you with a slow psycho crusher. But for the most part, at full screen distance you can jump on him for free.

Then if you knock him down just use down forward roundhouse to set up throw attempts. Or low forward-throw, or low forward-low roundhouse, or low forward-low fierce.

Also Chun's Lightning Legs stops all of Dictator's Charge attack at close range.

You also want to keep throwing fireballs to stop his charge moves, unless you see him waiting in crouch for that head stomp. You can reverse the head stomp with an air throw or with any other jumping attack. If Dictator tries to just jump at you, your best bet is to try to walk under him and throw. Also up close forward should reverse him cleanly. You can try far standing roundhouse, but you have to do it pretty early, otherwise you might just trade. Low roundhouse will work if he is using an early jump attack, but it's risky because if he does a late jump attack I think it will hit you clean. Same thing goes for far standing forward. Two more anti airs are jump straight up short and roundhouse.

[Maj]

Actually you have to do it from DB, for it to be useful in the situation I was describing because the whole point was to gain ground on your opponent while keeping a charge.

I think Family Fun should be getting an SFAE machine in? I think I read that on the FFA Thread. If you're near Cal Poly Pomona, they actually have a very good ST cabinet, everything works! Oh and I think the Burbank Media Center has an Ultracade with Hyper Fighting.
You mentioned doing fireballs from full screen away so i figured there would be no difference whether you do it from B or DB.

All i'm saying is that "Charge DB, B, F (hold for a while), P" will let you move further than "Charge DB, F (hold for a while), P" because in the second case some of those F frames are wasted on standing up animation where you don't actually move forward.

Btw, i'm in the valley so Pomona is far. If FFA gets an SFAE machine we can meet up there. I'll probably be there this Friday night, so i'll see what they've got. Usually i go Friday or Saturday night, once every week or two.

[Footsy Bebop]

Chun and Guile and everyone else can take a step before doing charge moves. The easiest way to see this is with something like Chun's fireball. Charge B, hold F and wait a little bit before pushing a punch button. She'll take a step forward and then do FB. You get somewhere around the neighborhood of 5-10 frames inbetween inputs for special moves, and somewhere between 10-15 frames for super moves.



I remember Jeff Schaeffer talking about this once with Sagat, he said there were two kinds of fireballs with Sagat: a fireball where you stand still and then a fireball where you inch forward. To do the fireball where you inch forward is it just a matter of taking a step and then doing a fireball or is there a fireball motion that will actually advance you forward?

I didn't really appreciate what he was saying at the time, but now I get it. If you inch forward with Sagat's fireball you're slowly pressuring your opponent into the corner.

[Footsy Bebop]

Btw, i'm in the valley so Pomona is far. If FFA gets an SFAE machine we can meet up there. I'll probably be there this Friday night, so i'll see what they've got. Usually i go Friday or Saturday night, once every week or two.

Cool. I just took a look at your website. I guess you're a CvS2 stud as well, maybe you can show me how to freaking roll cancel. I was trying it for awhile and I eventually just gave up on it and that game.

[ShinjiGohan]

I remember Jeff Schaeffer talking about this once with Sagat, he said there were two kinds of fireballs with Sagat: a fireball where you stand still and then a fireball where you inch forward. To do the fireball where you inch forward is it just a matter of taking a step and then doing a fireball or is there a fireball motion that will actually advance you forward?

I didn't really appreciate what he was saying at the time, but now I get it. If you inch forward with Sagat's fireball you're slowly pressuring your opponent into the corner.

If not that, then possibly karacanceling an attack into a fireball.

[SweetJohnnyV]

Btw, i'm in the valley so Pomona is far. If FFA gets an SFAE machine we can meet up there. I'll probably be there this Friday night, so i'll see what they've got. Usually i go Friday or Saturday night, once every week or two.

I thought FFA had a SFAE machine a long time ago(last summer?). In any event, if a bunch of people are going Friday maybe I'll go too. Although, I do usually go out drinking on Fridays, so who knows? :wgrin:

[Khiempossible]

majestros is right. that vid is nuts. some of it was old like DJ upkicks to super and the back turned hits (NKI did a similar vid featuring backturned crystal shards). One thing I did learn was ken super link after hurricane kicks. How hard is the timing on this link? impossible? reasonable? special conditions only? what version of the kicks?

the last guile one was my favourite. I've never seen 4 sonic booms and a flashkick in a single combo.

[NKI]

Where can I find that frame data?

This thread moves too fast to keep up with :oCheck the very first post in this thread. :tup:

I'm having a lot of trouble with (and try to figure this one out...) Chun vs. Dictator. [...] Scissor kick, close short x n, then guess between throw or low forward into scissor kick, repeat.Although they look very similar, Dic actually has two st.Shorts: close and far. The close st.Short is really good, because it recovers so fast, and he can combo them together. The far st.Short is not that great because it has a lot of recovery and he can't link after it.

He can only do two or three close st.Shorts to Chun, then he is pushed back too far and the far st.Short comes out. He can not combo far st.Short into cr.Forward, so if he tries to do any kind of guessing game after the far st.Short, just throw him. Also, he can't keep stringing far st.Shorts together without walking towards you, and you can throw or lightning legs between them.

Alternatively, you could also just use lightning legs or fireball to stuff/trade with his Scissor Kicks, which would be my recommendation. After you knock him down, do meaty D/F+RH. Unless he has meter, he'll be forced to block. Follow that up with either throw or [cr.Forward, cr.RH] and continue to rush him down.

One thing I did learn was ken super link after hurricane kicks. How hard is the timing on this link? impossible? reasonable? special conditions only? what version of the kicks?If a remember correctly, he only does that combo against WW Gief, and there's probably a reason for that.

[Khiempossible]

If a remember correctly, he only does that combo against WW Gief, and there's probably a reason for that.


Nope. This was in ST and it was performed on both n.blanka and n.zangief.

[Zaelar]

Check the very first post in this thread. :tup:


There is an error in the walking data ranks. It is listed as rank ...9 13 14 15 16, should be ...9 13 15 16 17. Unless there is a character that can walk backward and not forward considering the last rank for forward is 16 but its 17 for backward.

If i'm reading it correctly, the frame data is listed as startup-active-recovery. Is there any frame advantage/disadvantage information available?

Good job with everything that was done so far.

[A_Wolfe]

Are all those combos legit?

They're very cool, but for the most part completely useless in play. In fact most of them would be extremely difficult to get off on someone who volunteered to be smashed. lol.

Because combos in st are difficult to do and it seems like these type of vids are more of cool art form than anything else. It is pretty cool to see that the game has a following that people are able to figure out such extreme tactics and combos. I would love to see some videos with SF gltches too, that would be interesting. Anyway, Awsome vid!

- Alex

[r3ko]

Probably be pretty good to see a vid of practical combos. I don't know why there aren't any as its great for someone starting out or trying to learn that cool dizzy crossup combo. It all good and well reading how so and so combo is performed but sometimes it'd be nice to actually see it in action to help your timing.

[fatboy]

I would love to see some videos with SF gltches too, that would be interesting. Anyway, Awsome vid!

- Alex

There is a cool set of glitch videos on the yoga book hyper DVD.

[NKI]

There is an error in the walking data ranks.Sorry about that. I'll fix it when I get home.

If i'm reading it correctly, the frame data is listed as startup-active-recovery. Is there any frame advantage/disadvantage information available?Not yet, but hopefully in the future. :tup:

I would love to see some videos with SF gltches too, that would be interesting.Just wait until Vegas...:wink:

[Maj]

The reason nobody has made a video of practical combos is because it would be all sorts of boring. Even the people who try to make them get bored and start throwing fancy stuff in there.

Probably the best way to do it would be as a website with screenshots of each of the moves and maybe a link to the individual video clip in case they want to see it in action. That way you can view stuff by character and you don't have to skip around in a 5-minute video to try to find what you need.

[A_Wolfe]

The reason nobody has made a video of practical combos is because it would be all sorts of boring. Even the people who try to make them get bored and start throwing fancy stuff in there.

Probably the best way to do it would be as a website with screenshots of each of the moves and maybe a link to the individual video clip in case they want to see it in action. That way you can view stuff by character and you don't have to skip around in a 5-minute video to try to find what you need.

I disagree, for alot of players it may be more exciting and useful. I think a practical combo video of things that are not too obvious would be greatly appreciated.

- Alex

[Maj]

I think you could get away with making a situational practical combo video, like showing how to punish certain things with maximum damage. But then you may as well make a tactics video. Personally i think a clear web page reference for practical combos is more useful than a video because it takes less time to find what you're looking for.

[Crayfish]

The best thing for SF2 videos would be tutorials of individual matchups. Webpages with pics are good for tactics too, but the kind of multiple scenario slow mo stuff NKI does is perfectly suited to tactics and practical, siuation specific combos. As I said before, I could never understand why there hadn't been tutorial vids for SF2 before that Fei one in the last few weeks, SF2 is primarily a game of tactics, not combos. As for them being entertaining, does anyone else here find those endless TZW, backward move, crouching Gief in the corner, crossover into super into juggle variations utterly mindnumbing? To me, single hits like Guile punishing low Tiger from half screen with a drop down Fierce are way more interesting than any double digit combo in the corner you could show me.

[ShinjiGohan]

How exactly does one guage if a combo is practical? Quick damage? Does it set the opponent up for a following trap? Does it build a lot of super bar meter? Easy of execution? Combination of the above?

[Kyokuji]

Mainly the set-up. If you need some kind of ridiculous situation to get it to work, it's not really viable for match play.
Execution is part of it, but the Japanese prove time and time again, that almost anything's usable.

[evilj]

the beautiful matchup of street fighter imo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txUySvdubac

and the last match of

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otvb-AlynJQ

I like how watson's guile almost made a comeback in the 2nd round.

[JumpsuitJesse]

I could never understand why there hadn't been tutorial vids for SF2 before that Fei one in the last few weeks, SF2 is primarily a game of tactics, not combos. .

Crayfish, what turorial are you talking about? Did noguchi fei put out a vid or something?:looney:

[margalis]

Relying on landing then hitting your opponent while facing the wrong direction and only working on 2 characters is not what I would call a practical combo.

[Maj]

What i don't understand is why people assume that tutorial videos are somehow easy to make. In reality they take an insane amount of planning, way more video editing skills, and anything matchup specific automatically multiplies the size/complexity of the project tenfold. Since everything in a tutorial video is practical by definition, why don't the people who want them try to make them? NKI is human too - not like he has an infinite amount of time to put into making videos for us.

JSJ: http://www.combovideos.com/page.php?id=1310

[Graham]

Practical combos would be a very useful thing imo. I got a few sneaky combos i use with most of my characters that i dont use often because i dont practice them enough but they would be practical. An example is a guile player using jumpin fierce, standing fierce, flashkick. This combo is way better than fierce, low strong, flashkick because of its possible redizzy property for the older chars. But most guiles prefer using the safe one when an opponent is dizzy.

Maybe later on i can put together a list of combos i use in tournament play and when and which chars they work on etc.

[Crayfish]

What i don't understand is why people assume that tutorial videos are somehow easy to make. In reality they take an insane amount of planning, way more video editing skills, and anything matchup specific automatically multiplies the size/complexity of the project tenfold. Since everything in a tutorial video is practical by definition, why don't the people who want them try to make them? NKI is human too - not like he has an infinite amount of time to put into making videos for us.

JSJ: http://www.combovideos.com/page.php?id=1310

I didn't see anyone say they were easy to make or that NKI should be making them. He's already doing more than anyone else for SF2 with the wiki and frame sata, engine analysis etc... The first two vids that have led the way, Green Tea's Fei vid and r3k0's Blanka Tricks vid have been made by pretty much first timers (afaik) and thier both great. And the fact that theyr hard to make shouldn't be a reason not to make them. They would be usefull and entertaining, unlike most ST combo vids that are boring and pointless.
Lots of the people here, know at least 1 matchup really well, so the knowlege is there, its just a matter of if it combines with knowhow and resources to materialise into a vid. There is certainly no shortage of enthusiasm and audience interest atm, this thread, for this 12 (essentialy 15) year old game is coming up with more indepth analysis than any of the sister threads for brand new games it rubs shoulders with. Imagine how great matchup vids done in co-op with top players would be... Guile vs Ryu (CPS1 & CPS2) with Mike Watson, Fei vs Guile with JSJ, Cammy vs Sim with Masaka....
And surely the individual possibilities of matchup tutorials would be a motivation to vidmakers not a put off?

[JumpsuitJesse]

Imagine how great matchup vids done in co-op with top players would be... Guile vs Ryu (CPS1 & CPS2) with Mike Watson, Fei vs Guile with JSJ, Cammy vs Sim with Masaka....
And surely the individual possibilities of matchup tutorials would be a motivation to vidmakers not a put off?

Yeah...this is gonna take a while. It's tough writing a strat alone because every match is so dynamic and much of what seasoned players do is based on pure experience. It's all very difficult to put into words. Sometimes I find myself forgetting small details that are so important but I am nowhere near a pc to jot them down :rofl:

A vid with freeze frame commentary would be a good way to remedy this.

EDIT:

Ok...I am watching the vid. The first freeze frame section was nice.

[Maj]

Crayfish: What i'm saying is that you should try making one yourself to see the difficulty in what you're requesting. Anyone who makes it sound like they made a tutorial video in 3 days usually means they spent 3 days doing nothing but working on that project.

Fortunately, none of it requires professional expertise, especially since ST is emulated and you can capture footage without any extra hardware. There's no such thing as a "vidmakers" license or category. It's not like it's a mutant power. But it does take time. Loads and loads and loads of time. It's entirely unfair asking one person to do it. Sorry to say, but hoping for Watson to randomly make a tutorial video when he doesn't even post strategy is a pipe dream.

As for motivation, well, it is an intriguing idea but like i said, making videos is not a mutant power. I'm sure you've thrown around the idea of making exactly the kind of video you want but then considered the amount of effort it would take and decided against it. It's not like "vidmakers" are somehow immune to being discouraged by a request that would take months to complete.

[Crayfish]

Crayfish: What i'm saying is that you should try making one yourself to see the difficulty in what you're requesting. Anyone who makes it sound like they made a tutorial video in 3 days usually means they spent 3 days doing nothing but working on that project.

Fortunately, none of it requires professional expertise, especially since ST is emulated and you can capture footage without any extra hardware. There's no such thing as a "vidmakers" license or category. It's not like it's a mutant power. But it does take time. Loads and loads and loads of time. It's entirely unfair asking one person to do it. Sorry to say, but hoping for Watson to randomly make a tutorial video when he doesn't even post strategy is a pipe dream.

As for motivation, well, it is an intriguing idea but like i said, making videos is not a mutant power. I'm sure you've thrown around the idea of making exactly the kind of video you want but then considered the amount of effort it would take and decided against it. It's not like "vidmakers" are somehow immune to being discouraged by a request that would take months to complete.
"I wholeheartedly apolagise to the single, unlicensed, non-mutant I discouraged by requested you to make a video that will take loads and loads and loads of time to make, that was entirely unfair of me''

[Maj]

"I wholeheartedly apolagise to the single, unlicensed, non-mutant I discouraged by requested you to make a video that will take loads and loads and loads of time to make, that was entirely unfair of me''
No man, you completely misread me. I wasn't asking for an apology. What i wanted was an explanation for why you aren't doing what you say needs to be done.

[felineki]

Dang, once Fei-Long's got you in the corner, he's almost unstoppable!

[Decoy]

Hey guys, here is a link to HF Blanka. Better late than never eh?

Anyway, I ran short on time so I could not add all the stuff I wanted to. This at least should show how nasty Blanka can be.:bgrin:

And yes, I included the 2-hit combo (mk, f. ball) and his 3-hit combo (j. fp, c. mk, f. ball)

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0wCzcs32lw

~Decoy

[Footsy Bebop]

Just wondering how do they do those cross up into wrong facing direction moves? What determines when you face the right way and when you face the wrong way when you do those combos?

[Crayfish]

Hey guys, here is a link to HF Blanka. Better late than never eh?

Anyway, I ran short on time so I could not add all the stuff I wanted to. This at least should show how nasty Blanka can be.:bgrin:

And yes, I included the 2-hit combo (mk, f. ball) and his 3-hit combo (j. fp, c. mk, f. ball)

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0wCzcs32lw

~Decoy
Awsome, awsome stuff Decoy. Thats like 3 inside of two weeks, things are a changing :). Great work. While were on it, here are my additions to R3ko's Blanka Wiki, going for HF & ST Blanka, great work :tup; I'll post in the HF thread right away..


*AA:
With good (early) timing s.HP can hit opponents directly above you, as well as 45degrees.

s.MP is superfast 45degree antiair, this move alone can pin characters like Gief to the ground.

Electricity will beat all but the most high priority air moves, very underused nowdays.

Jump forward MP is awsome air to air, the hitbox and his jump arc is high, so it hits most other airmoves from above.

c.HP can beat flat air attacks like Guile's j.HK and Dictators 'Swallow Dive' (the backflip puch that follows Head Stomp)

Super is the best AA move in the game, huge damage, almost totaly invunerable, can change direction for crossovers and landing it as AA is also the only way to guarentee safety after the fact and secure all 5 hits. Peform motion and hold button early, so that you land the opponent on the height of the vertical motion (this juggles the opponent higher and gives you more time to guage thier falling trajectory), then release so that you roll under their falling body JUST before they hit the ground, this will secure maxximum hits.

FOOTSIES:

c.HP is awsome. Huge range and quick recovery, great for punishing whiffed sweeps and especialy good against Fireballers, work at its max range (this is a good jump in range too) and try to trade hits with/ snuff fireball throwing frames.

Against Shotos you can also use his s.HK (backflip kick). At the right range, you will flip over any crouching kicks they throw, but your feet will hit thier hands snuffing thier fireball throwing frames! It works like Sagat's far s.HP in this respect.

c.MK and c.LK are great against other low kicks, they can beat moves like Guile's c.MK clean. This really undermines the opponents comfort ranges and helps you put pressure on.

s.LK has incredible priority, with good enough timing it can beat almost anything. s.LP is great too, experiment...

MISC:

*work in where you feel most applicable

Alot of people worry about other characters body torpedo moves when playing with Blanka. j.LK beats them clean. Jump back LK, repeat is a safe, easy deterant against the threat of psychocrushers and Honda headbutts. Especially good when your ahead on energy.

Electricity Chip/Bite psyche out.
When an opponent is getting up its fairly safe to chip with meaty Electricity. But it is also possible to time the early electricity so it finishes JUST before the opponent gets to thier feet, you can then simply puch towards + HP for a bite. Because electricity has almost 0 recovery this is really hard for the opponent to judge, and never fails to provoke a smile or sigh from the recipient :)

Whiffed Ball psyche outs.
Whiffing LP Ball for close range and MP Ball for medium range, you can stop directly infront of a high/low blocking opponent and seemlesly switch into a Bite or c.HK before the opponent has time to respond. Great tactic, really underused.

Jump in HP is an awsome high priority air attack. Like its standing counterpart, it can hit through a range of angles, including straight down. With good timing, it can beat all the killer AA sweeps in the game, Geif c.HK, Shoto c.HK, Sim slidde etc.. as well as numerous AA moves like shoto s.HK and even mirror Balnka Electricity.

COMBOS:

j.HP,s.MP,c.HK. This is the bread and butter for Blanka in ST because it gives him a the vital knockdown at the finish and also because in ST (unlinke CPS1 versions) your not guarenteed a dizzy from the HP finish variant of this combo.

Killer 4 hit (works on surprising amount of charas):
Deep Crossover HP,s.MP.s.MP,c.HP

Long range 2 hit (especialy useful against Low Tiger Sagat):
Max range Jump in late HK,c.HP

Crayfish.

[Khiempossible]

Hey guys, here is a link to HF Blanka. Better late than never eh?

Anyway, I ran short on time so I could not add all the stuff I wanted to. This at least should show how nasty Blanka can be.:bgrin:

And yes, I included the 2-hit combo (mk, f. ball) and his 3-hit combo (j. fp, c. mk, f. ball)

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0wCzcs32lw

~Decoy

a few questions.

The first combo against Ryu. j.fierce, cl.strong, c.roundhouse
the combo meter reads 2, but technically should be 3. I assume you missed the combo or is that a in game counter glitch?

after the pimp hand techniques, blanka jump's ken's fireball and does j.fierce, c.forward, fierce blanka ball. Blanka ball doesn't combo. Can Ken uppercut that or punish the blocked ball?

vs. dhalsim you do j.fierce, cl.strong, far.strong -> dizzy, j.fierce, cl.strong, c.roundhouse. No combo meter on the last three hits. Though I assume they combo.

then after your ball tricks in the dirty counters section, what strength ball do you use to cross up electricity? jab or strong?

lastly to clarify, c.forward, fierce blanka ball only combos at point blank range?

[Maj]

One thing I did learn was ken super link after hurricane kicks. How hard is the timing on this link? impossible? reasonable? special conditions only? what version of the kicks?
The Ken combos look like they aren't natural links. Looks like he's setting it up so that the last hit barely connects. The kick comes out for a while and then it hits later than usual. That makes it a little meaty so he gets more frame advantage than usual. If you mess around in training mode maybe you can find a reliable setup.

The Blanka combo at 0:39 is pretty fucking advanced too. I'm pretty sure Blanka's s.MP xx super doesn't normally combo.
Just wondering how do they do those cross up into wrong facing direction moves? What determines when you face the right way and when you face the wrong way when you do those combos?
It's a spacing issue and a timing issue, with a bunch of random factors thrown in. Here's an excerpt from NKI's transcript of his Volume V video:

To do a backwards move, you must have your spacing and timing perfect. You want to space your character so that you will *barely* make it to the other side for the cross-up. You want to time the backwards move so that it comes out on the first frame of your landing animation - basically ASAP. Some backwards moves are extremely easy to do, and it seems like they almost set themselves up. Vega (American Bison) cross-up j.RH against a cornered, ducking Chun Li is a good example. It's very, very easy to get a backwards move that way. For most characters, however, the spacing and timing must be very exact.

It's easiest against crouching Chun Li, crouching Blanka, crouching Guile, and crouching Honda but you can do it against basically any character with the proper setup. However, most backwards attacks will whiff against most opponents. The three characters mentioned above are your best bet by far. Putting the opponent just barely outside the corner to set up the crossup usually makes it easier. But there's also a few arbitrary factors to consider. Usually 1P characters can only do a backwards move off a crossup jump going from right to left, while 2P characters can only do a backwards move off a crossup jump going from left to right. It's not practical at all, and even if you do get it in the middle of a match you'll probably be too surprised to do anything about it.

Basically you're tricking the game into thinking that you haven't switched sides yet. Sometimes crouching characters reel so far back during hit stun that it's like their heads are sticking through you. For a split-second the game thinks that they're on the other side so it doesn't force your character to turn around until they start to recover. It's easiest to do this with characters that have very fast jump speeds and good crossups. Ideally you want to hit with a deep crossup and land right next to them. Chun Li's jump makes her perfect for this. In fact i think she's the only character that can do a backwards move against a standing opponent. There's a Chun Li vs Chun Li combo on the Starting Over DVD:

crossup j.HP, backwards s.MP, j.D+MK stomp (opponent dizzy), crossup j.HP, backwards s.HP xx backwards SBK

Some characters' crossups put you RIGHT NEXT to the opponent. In these cases you actually have a few frames to do a backwards attack. Other characters don't have very good crossups or have a less-than-ideal jump arc and they need perfect timing to get the backwards attack to come out.

[Decoy]

a few questions.

The first combo against Ryu. j.fierce, cl.strong, c.roundhouse
the combo meter reads 2, but technically should be 3. I assume you missed the combo or is that a in game counter glitch?

Yes, I missed the combo. It's his standard 3-hitter knock-dwn as listed by Crayfish. This is his B&B combo. The intent though was not the combo but adding the c. rh as a "spacer" so that it positions you perfectly for a j. ball, throw.

a few questions.

after the pimp hand techniques, blanka jump's ken's fireball and does j.fierce, c.forward, fierce blanka ball. Blanka ball doesn't combo. Can Ken uppercut that or punish the blocked ball?

Ken can uppercut the f. ball as it comes in but not if blocked. That sequeance of moves was just to illustrate a real fight situation. Noticed how Ken tried to jump-in after he blocked the f. ball? That was one of my bitchslp setups and also a double dizzy opportunity. Here's what I mean...

Option 1: If the f. ball did connect then Ken gets dizzy.
Option 2: Even though Ken blocks the f. ball, when he jumped at me and I hit him with the bitchslap, I possibly get a dizzy anyway because it happened so soon after the first 2 hits.



vs. dhalsim you do j.fierce, cl.strong, far.strong -> dizzy, j.fierce, cl.strong, c.roundhouse. No combo meter on the last three hits. Though I assume they combo.

Yes, that is his B&B combo. I just got too lazy to go back and make sure it said 3-hit combo. ;-)



then after your ball tricks in the dirty counters section, what strength ball do you use to cross up electricity? jab or strong?

It really depends on 2 factors. How far you knock them back and whether or not you want to cross them up. I normally do j. ball on characters that "float" or have more air time than others when falling back. This buys me enough time to do electricity and charge my next move.

If they fall back rather quickly and farther back then I do a m. ball. You'll get a feeel for which button is best after do it for a while. I'm sure you noticed that meaty electricity is a big part of my game. I could also do meaty standing mp into whatever but I like the odds that I get with meaty electric much better.

Here are things to think about:

1. When used as a cross-up, opponent has to guess which side you'll be on and also perform the reverse.
2. If they don't reverse, they get chip damage and setup for more mind games.
3. It's a great way to gauge an opponents reversal skills. If they suck at it, they're in trouble.



lastly to clarify, c.forward, fierce blanka ball only combos at point blank range?

Yes, unless you're playing at speed 4. Then, anything combos lol. ;-)




Awsome, awsome stuff Decoy.

Thanks man. Guys like you, NKI, r3ko, Majestros, the Wolfe brothers and others make it worth it. This thread is gold.:smile:


~Decoy

[Graham]

Actually if anyone really wants to get those opposite facing combos here is the logic behind why they work. Your character takes a brief moment to turn around. When you cross someone up you can land and if you hit the button the moment you land you haven't turned around yet. (use turbo buttons if you wanna see it work every time). I tried this on a turbo controller long ago and it was easy to do.

[Footsy Bebop]

Just wondering, what's the timing on ST Blanka's super to get it to cross the opponent up. I've been trying a variation of the Super tactic in the ST vid, instead of knock down roundhouse in to cross up super, I've been trying knock down electricity into cross up super, but getting the super to cross up is extremely difficult.

[laugh]

I saw the movie07.mpg ST combo vid and I had a question about the backward hitting claw combo against Blanka. Blanka gets hit on his back for the s.short XX rolling attack part, but then when he gets hit by the following link attack he turns around, although the combo continued and he shouldn't have had a reason to turn around at that point. Can NKI explain this? I'm real curious.

[TarkanX]

Not sure if this has been asked before, but is it possible with N.Ryu to connect a meaty crouching strong, crouching strong, standing fierce XX hadouken/shoryuken?

[NKI]

Usually 1P characters can only do a backwards move off a crossup jump going from right to left, while 2P characters can only do a backwards move off a crossup jump going from left to right.Wow, I did not know this! :confused:

Blanka gets hit on his back for the s.short XX rolling attack part, but then when he gets hit by the following link attack he turns aroundThink about how it works in an normal situation, when both of the characters are just standing there. While Claw is facing left (standing on the 2P side), Blanka (on the 1P side) should be facing right. While Claw is facing right (standing on the 1P side), Blanka (on the 2P side) should be facing left. Those are the rules we see in effect in that combo.

While Claw is facing left, Blanka is facing right. When Claw's roll is finished and he turns around to face right, Blanka also turns around and faces left. The problem is that the sides got reversed, and obviously the programmers didn't foresee backwards hitting moves.

Not sure if this has been asked before, but is it possible with N.Ryu to connect a meaty crouching strong, crouching strong, standing fierce XX hadouken/shoryuken?I couldn't get it 'cause you're too far away after the second cr.Strong, so the st.Fierce whiffs.

[Alphastorm]

I bought the Street Fighter AE official fighter's guide awhile back and it rates ST blanka as the best one. Are there any good reasons to pick HF Blanka over him?

[Khiempossible]

HF has better priority, vertical ball, damage and dizzy

ST blanka has more tricks though. xup j.LK and hop and super.

But like NKI says strategy will take you further than shenanigans.

[TheGrape1]

Proper strategy would require both. I mean, for me, if I don't need the slide in a match, why give up 2 hit dizzies and higher damage? Overall, ST would have more even matches, of course. HF Blanka can make some matches easier though.

[TheGrape1]

I disagree, for alot of players it may be more exciting and useful. I think a practical combo video of things that are not too obvious would be greatly appreciated.

- Alex

I, for one, prefer the videos with practical combos. I like to see what characters are capable of doing but only so far as it's practical in matches. I enjoy seeing skillful combos in competition but all of these combos I see that aren't applicable in gameplay kind of toned down the effect of seeing real stuff in matches with the exception of moments like #37, lol.

I dunno. Nowadays I see something and think that I've seen better when really, I haven't seen better in an actual match.

I guess I'm more interested in what a skilled human can do over what is technically possible with the game engine.

The worst for me is when there's no indication in a vid that a combo isn't really doable consistently. I have to actually test some and waste some time only to find out the combo is pretty much impossible for a man to do. It ends up making me waste my time, lol.

Sorry to go off. I miss the old TZW style where the combos got more difficult as they went on but were still doable and then he showed off glitch stuff.

[r3ko]

NKI, would it be possible for you to translate the bottom of page 33, the page where it shows Blanka doing a straight up Fierce. Thanks alot.

[ToXY]

I just figured out how to do 2 supers in 1 combo, pulled it off just then, vid will be up soon.

edit: here it is - http://toxy.combovideos.com/toxyboxercombo.avi

[Kyokuji]

I have to actually test some and waste some time only to find out the combo is pretty much impossible for a man to do. It ends up making me waste my time, lol.

If you know the game well enough, it should be fairly obvious which ones are BS and which ones aren't. You'd be surprised what's usable

[Maj]

Wow, I did not know this! :confused:
There are a couple of exceptions to this standard: Bison (dictator), Vega (claw) and THawk. Maybe it's because of their jump arcs, descent speeds, or it could even be that their landing hitboxes are so thin that it doesn't take much for the game engine to get confused when the opponent leans back through them.

On the Starting Over DVD, Thawk is the only character who does two midscreen backwards combos in a row. Everyone else does one backwards combo going in the only direction they can go, and then they do another midscreen crossup combo without a backwards move. The only time Vega (claw) does a backwards move contrary to the rule is when he bounces off the wall, which obviously changes his jump arc.

Sorry to go off. I miss the old TZW style where the combos got more difficult as they went on but were still doable and then he showed off glitch stuff.
When did TZW ever make practical combos?

Ideally, nothing in a combo video should be practical because if it is practical then what was the point in showing it off? If it's practical, then the guy who made it should have found a way to improve it past that point. I can understand wanting more strategy videos to be made but i can't understand demanding less effort from combo video makers. If you want a practical ST combo video, nothing beats NKI's Volume IV: http://nki.combovideos.com/

Then the next question is: Once you have one practical combo video, why do you need more? Just do the same combo every time you see an opening. I mean, let's be realistic here - who is going to find new practical combos in a 12-year-old game? The only way to do anything new is to devise new specialized (impractical) setups that nobody has thought of yet.

Besides, "practical" is tough to pin down. Some Japanese players consistently combo into Guile's super but i've never seen anyone in America try that. Same goes for Ryu's short short super and Daigo even did low jab low jab standing jab super with Balrog in Evo finals. It really comes down to you messing around for a couple of hours in Training Mode to see what you're comfortable with.

I just figured out how to do 2 supers in 1 combo, pulled it off just then, vid will be up soon.

edit: here it is - http://toxy.combovideos.com/toxyboxercombo.avi
Interesting idea. Thanks for making the video.

[ToXY]

I have nearly got a 2nd 2 super in 1 combo down with blanka, but there is one problem preventing me from getting it down which is his hop (direction + 3k)...
say if you are 4 hops away from guile and you are hoping at him holding towards and on your 4th hop you will end up on other side of him (which is plenty of time to charge super) but then when i do c.mk > super i got no charge, by swapping over sides does that mean i have to recharge all again even though i been holding towards the whole time, which is backwards after the 4th hop because i swapped sides with guile.

sorry, its hard to explain but i hope someone understand what im sayin heh.

[Maj]

You charge based on which side you're on relative to your opponent. If you hop through Guile and you hold forward, you will start charging as soon as you cross over to the other side. If you want to charge the whole time, you'll need to hold back at the beginning of the hop and switch to forward on the frame where the game engine decides you're on the other side. I'm assuming you're using macros so just keep incrementing the side switch until you find the right frame.

[~TeN~]

Hey guys, here is a link to HF Blanka. Better late than never eh?

Anyway, I ran short on time so I could not add all the stuff I wanted to. This at least should show how nasty Blanka can be.:bgrin:

And yes, I included the 2-hit combo (mk, f. ball) and his 3-hit combo (j. fp, c. mk, f. ball)

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0wCzcs32lw

~Decoy

Nice vid ..... how did you do the ball to the upward ball ? I thought you'd lose your down charge when you do the roll ... Like doing a sonic boom will make you lose ur charge so u can't do a flash kick

[ToXY]

You charge based on which side you're on relative to your opponent. If you hop through Guile and you hold forward, you will start charging as soon as you cross over to the other side. If you want to charge the whole time, you'll need to hold back at the beginning of the hop and switch to forward on the frame where the game engine decides you're on the other side. I'm assuming you're using macros so just keep incrementing the side switch until you find the right frame.

Im not using macros (apart from using 3k for the balrog combo since its to difficult to combo while holding down all 3 kick to charge TAP, i do my combos my hand, thanks for explaination but i still dont undertand.

if i hop through guile (holding towards befor i cross sides) when i get to other side im still holding same direction, but now its backwards since im on other side of him, after the hop finishes i try press towards + punch but no roll comes out, are you saying if i hop past him while im holding towards, i have to charge the opposite way now and when hop finishes i press back + punch and ball should come out???

edit: oh you mean befor i cross sides with blanka after i press towards + 3k to hop i should imediately hold backwards even befor i cross sides, then as soon as ive crossed sides i charge opposite direction again?

[Desk]

edit: oh you mean befor i cross sides with blanka after i press towards + 3k to hop i should imediately hold backwards even befor i cross sides, then as soon as ive crossed sides i charge opposite direction again?

Yeah but I think the point is that it would have to be frame perfect as you can't split your charge in ST. So if there's even one frame where you're not charging the correct way, the charge will be broken.

awesome combo by the way, did you have to charge for that entire round for the TAP to build that much metre?

[TheGrape1]

When did TZW ever make practical combos?

Ideally, nothing in a combo video should be practical because if it is practical then what was the point in showing it off?

Then the next question is: Once you have one practical combo video, why do you need more? Just do the same combo every time you see an opening.

Besides, "practical" is tough to pin down. Some Japanese players consistently combo into Guile's super but i've never seen anyone in America try that. Same goes for Ryu's short short super and Daigo even did low jab low jab standing jab super with Balrog in Evo finals. It really comes down to you messing around for a couple of hours in Training Mode to see what you're comfortable with.



TZW always made combos that one could pull off on the old games. Even the big combos with supers are usually practical.

When I say practical, I mean it's possible in competition. I don't mean practical to mean skilless.

Yes, why do anything less than the best possible combo? That's what I care to know. What's the best combo I can do on that sprite with a typical opening? The best anti-air combo, counter combo.etc. I wouldn't care about the best possible combo a computer could do. To me, THAT is pointless. If a player was performing an insane combo I might say WOW! If a computer does it, I couldn't care less. Why is the combo even possible if a human can't do it? It's pointless.

Then again, I'm not one for eye candy although I can appreciate it. Street Fighter is about the fight for me. Video editing is a different artform but if the video is about the editing and not useful in bettering my play, it's pointless to me. The art of the fight is deeper than the art of the video combos imo.

For the record, practical omits anything not possible by a human consistently. Short short super is practical to me.

The A2 guide is a great example. Even there expert combos were usable in a match. Impressive and useful. If something is impressive at first and found to be useless, ; it is no longer impressive to me. That's why I stay away from system direction stuff. A combo is nothing more than what's allowed by the engine. The ones that matter are the ones that affect a match, imo.

[Maj]

TZW's Ryu combos: http://www.combovideos.com/page.php?id=92
TZW's Ken combos: http://www.combovideos.com/page.php?id=93
TZW's Chun Li combos: http://www.combovideos.com/page.php?id=94
TZW's Honda combos: http://www.combovideos.com/page.php?id=95

Before we continue this discussion, how about you pick one of those (your choice) and find three practical combos for us? For starters, at least 90% of what TZW does only works on one character and it's usually crouching Zangief. You either don't remember what TZW videos were like, didn't catch most of what was going on in TZW videos, or have an impractial definition of "practical."

[TheGrape1]

TZW's Ryu combos: http://www.combovideos.com/page.php?id=92
TZW's Ken combos: http://www.combovideos.com/page.php?id=93
TZW's Chun Li combos: http://www.combovideos.com/page.php?id=94
TZW's Honda combos: http://www.combovideos.com/page.php?id=95

Before we continue this discussion, how about you pick one of those (your choice) and find three practical combos for us? For starters, at least 90% of what TZW does only works on one character and it's usually crouching Zangief. You either don't remember what TZW videos were like, didn't catch most of what was going on in TZW videos, or have an impractial definition of "practical."

I'm not bothering watching all of them when I'm seeing Ryu do combos I could do right off.

By practical, I should just say that it doesn't require a computer to do it at least 50% of the time. Think about what I'm saying. If a human can't do it when it counts, I couldn't care less about it. That's just my opinion. I'm probably off but you're coming off a tad condescending. We differ in opinion. That's all. Comboing Rog's super like Daigo did is practical. Very practical. Practice will get most there. CPU only combos don't apply to the game in it's competitive form so, I'm not interested. I enjoy videos like anyone else but I stopped being impressed when the players stopped performing them and started programming them.

[Dasrik]

Oh man, and just when this thread was le peace and le chill... :-(

[ToXY]

Yeah but I think the point is that it would have to be frame perfect as you can't split your charge in ST. So if there's even one frame where you're not charging the correct way, the charge will be broken.

awesome combo by the way, did you have to charge for that entire round for the TAP to build that much metre?

yeah it sounds pretty hard to charge like that, ill try again later tonight anyway, i think i got another idea up my sleeve to do it now too.

and yeah im not sure how much time it takes to charge final TAP, i just set one of my buttons to 3K, held it down for ages (as you can see, not much time left on clock heh) and saved state, then continued to hold it down during the combo.

[Maj]

I gotta agree with Dasrik. This discussion is a complete waste of time. Nobody is saying anything that hasn't been said and settled a hundred times before. If you want any of those answers, go read this: http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102327

By the way, i'm not being condescending. If anything, it's frustration from putting effort into making combo videos only to have someone call them "CPU only combos" (which is an absolutely meaningless phrase to those of you trying to make sense out of all this). But hey, maybe someday i'll get to see TheGrape1 playing at Evo and maybe he really can do 12-hit Ryu combos over 50% of the time.

[r3ko]

I don't know TheGrape1, yes the combo Daigo pulled off is quite practical, but unless your 100% sure you will pull it off, you might aswell just for the super. Loads of damage by itself. What if you failed to combo one of the jabs, then suddenly, that huge damaging combo only get its you couple of jabs hits, and a block damage from the super.Now if you think you can pull off those big ryu combos, say for example, a 12 hitter, minus 5 from the super, means you got to successfully combo 7 hits before you even get to the super. Not very practical if ask me.

Anyway if you want a good list of practical combos into supers (albeit some very hard), then check back on this thread, i must of posted about 100 or so i saved from an old thread.

EDIT: Found them, there on page 75 (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97281&page=75). Theres so many i had to post them in 3 seperate posts cause i kept reaching the word limit. Also please don't go off on one guys if some don't work, i didn't come up with these combos, just reposting them.

[Decoy]

Nice vid ..... how did you do the ball to the upward ball ? I thought you'd lose your down charge when you do the roll ... Like doing a sonic boom will make you lose ur charge so u can't do a flash kick

It's simple really. Just charge back down, then do forward + any punch button while still holding down, followed by up + any kick button. It's the double charge method.

~Decoy

[TheGrape1]

I gotta agree with Dasrik. This discussion is a complete waste of time. Nobody is saying anything that hasn't been said and settled a hundred times before. If you want any of those answers, go read this: http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102327

By the way, i'm not being condescending. If anything, it's frustration from putting effort into making combo videos only to have someone call them "CPU only combos" (which is an absolutely meaningless phrase to those of you trying to make sense out of all this). But hey, maybe someday i'll get to see TheGrape1 playing at Evo and maybe he really can do 12-hit Ryu combos over 50% of the time.


It sucks that my opinion can't be just that. I don't develop my opinion to frustrate anyone. That's for sure.

That phrase must be meaningless because I worded it poorly? If it takes a computer to perform it, I'm not interested past a first view. The meaning is clear. Combos that can only be performed by a computer or some sort are not interesting to me. Why does that have to cause any offense?

Why would I have to do a combo for a character that I don't play? It just so happens that I can combo Ryu's super in many ways. So can other players. Even American players. I don't even prefer Ryu.

To make it clear, I didn't say everything TZW did was practical. I stated that they got better as they went along just like a player could as he attempted combos. Many combos would build and improve on the last one and I never got bored watching the build up. As for combos that work on Gief. They also usually work on Sim,Rog,Guile etc. There are combos that only land on one or two characters but those combos are still useful and still able to be performed by a human.

It's kind of weak that I have to defend an opinion from a competitors view on SRK.

[Graham]

yeah it sounds pretty hard to charge like that, ill try again later tonight anyway, i think i got another idea up my sleeve to do it now too.

and yeah im not sure how much time it takes to charge final TAP, i just set one of my buttons to 3K, held it down for ages (as you can see, not much time left on clock heh) and saved state, then continued to hold it down during the combo.

I forgot the times for st for final, but for super it was 60 seconds. I know at 30 on the clock for st it does final.

[TheGrape1]

I don't know TheGrape1, yes the combo Daigo pulled off is quite practical, but unless your 100% sure you will pull it off, you might aswell just for the super. Loads of damage by itself. What if you failed to combo one of