Super Street Fighter II Turbo, in the house

[Master Chibi]

Honestly I just NOW got into it because I put Balrog (boxer) into my CvS2 team and it leaked into ST. I really don't know anything about proper pokes / reversals / what have you yet, but Shag here will hopefully teach me the ways of the warrior.

:D

[spirokeat]

Hello all,

Great thread, really enjoying reading. I have a few questions though. I haven't played SF2 since about '93 and there is obviously a HUGE ammount of info and jargon evolved since I obsessed back in the day. My girlfriend caught me and a bud talking about old SF2 days and dropped a AE edition, Xbox and X-arcade on me as a suprise. So ! the point being.....Im reading the thread and I keep seeing talk of various tactics but Im a little lost on the reference's...so bear with me for some fairly n00b questions.

Whats a cross-up ?

is zoning merely jockeying for position ?

and what is the idea behind a tick then 'x-attack' ?

I've scooted about the boards etc and not found a thread that could enlighten me...so sorry in advance if this is standard stuff.

Spirokeat.

[Sabin]

^ You can find a glossary of these terms at Majestros's site - http://sonichurricane.com . Go to articles, then head to the reference section.

[nohoho]

^ You can find a glossary of these terms at Majestros's site - http://sonichurricane.com . Go to articles, then head to the reference section.
reversal - special or super move performed by the defending player on the first free frame following hit stun, block stun, knockdown, air reel, or throw tech
Ugh. The guy literally wrote the book on the subject and I was trying to argue with him. It's just incredible what a fucking asshole I am.

[JumpsuitJesse]

Nohoho, thanks for the vids.

That one T Hawk player was simply amazing. That match against blanka was so deep! And the walk up 360 kills were just bad ass!

Thanks man!

[Apoc]

T.Hawk? Vid? huh?

What's the word on which game will be at Evo? AE? Supergun ST? Gettin' a tad upset with the current US ol skool play(hey, I'm not sayin' I don't suck more than everyone, heheh). Just wanna know cuz, not playing so much, a lot has hit me and, if time permits, I'm gonna whoop yall this year.

I've said it before but I'm realizing more now from not playing all of this time...75% of the whole WORLD's players are scrubs:( ...on ST

Just wondering if AE is getting left to the new generation or what? ST is watered down at Evo so, don't know the word on that either.

I'm a fan of the Japanese(Gian was a joy to play and seemed to be a really great guy...just like most of the Japanese I've been priveleged to meet) but I can't keep NOT playing if the US players are content on lettin' them have the ol skool crown.

Wtf is up with the ol skool scene, now? Bout as dead as the whole SF scene seems to be? Not talking the fighting game scene here. Talkin' take off the blinders and check SF. I can't believe it but, it seems that the SF scene is about as big as it was in '95 now. My lazy ass hopes that SRK keeps it real instead of coverin' shit with other games. SRK does care about SF 1st and foremost, right?


who am I kiddin'?

Anyway, who's plannin' on taking that shiet back? Anyone?


Apoc.

[Shirts]

T.Hawk? Vid? huh?

What's the word on which game will be at Evo? AE? Supergun ST? Gettin' a tad upset with the current US ol skool play(hey, I'm not sayin' I don't suck more than everyone, heheh). Just wanna know cuz, not playing so much, a lot has hit me and, if time permits, I'm gonna whoop yall this year.

I've said it before but I'm realizing more now from not playing all of this time...75% of the whole WORLD's players are scrubs:( ...on ST

Just wondering if AE is getting left to the new generation or what? ST is watered down at Evo so, don't know the word on that either.

I'm a fan of the Japanese(Gian was a joy to play and seemed to be a really great guy...just like most of the Japanese I've been priveleged to meet) but I can't keep NOT playing if the US players are content on lettin' them have the ol skool crown.

Wtf is up with the ol skool scene, now? Bout as dead as the whole SF scene seems to be? Not talking the fighting game scene here. Talkin' take off the blinders and check SF. I can't believe it but, it seems that the SF scene is about as big as it was in '95 now. My lazy ass hopes that SRK keeps it real instead of coverin' shit with other games. SRK does care about SF 1st and foremost, right?


who am I kiddin'?

Anyway, who's plannin' on taking that shiet back? Anyone?


Apoc.

Dude, you're old. GAME OVER. ROFL.

[Apoc]

Dude, you're old. GAME OVER. ROFL.

I was a decade past my prime when I whooped you so, doesn't seem to make much difference.

So, it's cool to you to lose AGAIN? Weak.

Game's been over for years now. Time to start a new one. But then, I suppose you've gone as far as you can go seeing as you had the best comp to practice with, lol.

If I decide to play on point again, I'll need a Sim or 2 to test. Sup hater? I'll put you at 5th level test(of 10). Of course I'll be betting to encourage my interest.

I'll holla and see if you're around in 5-6 months.

You might wanna try playing both days this year if you show up, lol.

Apoc.

[FMJaguar]

Rumar has it that ST will be left to cigarbob so he can run the arcade version on his cab. However he only plans to run a team tournament. This is from the 'ST on PS1' thread in evo forum

[Apoc]

Rumar has it that ST will be left to cigarbob so he can run the arcade version on his cab. However he only plans to run a team tournament. This is from the 'ST on PS1' thread in evo forum

Lovely. Team tourneys are more for fun than straight comp. If there's only one tourney and it's a team one, count me out. Fuckin' lame. Like Evo needs ANOTHER casual feeling tourney.

I sincerely hope that Niel plans on running a real tourney or two. Then again, the competitive attitude of the SF scene is all but gone so, I won't hold my breath.

That means A3 is probably team too?

Why bother playing serious again when the competitions aren't going to be serious. Hell, even on a cabinet it's going weak. I remember when players would stand on their own(aside from Schaefer and Watson leading the piggyback brigade years ago).

I'll just remain cynical.

No offense to Neil but, is anyone concerned with how NOT serious SF has become? As gaming continues it's rise in mainstream media, sf stands out less and less because it's acting like a casual gaming scene. Fuck all the pussies that added and intend to add to this. No wonder the majority of serious players couldn't care less these days. The worse part is that ppl don't say shit as more and more folks poop on the legacy.

SF is looking like Tyson's career. All I can say is that I said this shiet would be like this years ago and now it's getting stupider than even I thought.

Apoc.

[FMJaguar]

No offense to Neil but, is anyone concerned with how NOT serious SF has become?


I already addressed the concerns of team tourney vs singles, which mirrors your sentiment, however there are other factors involved, if you feel so strongly about this, you only have ~8 months to attempt to be useful instead of just posting your usual nonsense about whatever you think is serious. Lets just stop this before it starts... again.

[Apoc]

I already addressed the concerns of team tourney vs singles, which mirrors your sentiment, however there are other factors involved, if you feel so strongly about this, you only have ~8 months to attempt to be useful instead of just posting your usual nonsense about whatever you think is serious. Lets just stop this before it starts... again.

Should've stopped before you started. "Being useful" is as subjective as anything I've said so, quit trying to play smart. It doesn't matter how strongly I feel if I can't rent out a hall, dork. You act as if everyone that's done commentary on our times is useless because they merely talk about it. I was showing up to and running local tourneys longer than most have been playing. I've helped ppl learn SF directly as well as in text and I don't spout nonsense, constantly, in some pathetic attempt to be funny. Go do some stand-up if you're THAT inclined.

At least don't make some moronic type of post that is JUST LIKE what I've seen you flame others for. If you don't like what I have to say, don't read. Simple as that. And PLEASE don't act as if any of my sentiments are mirrored by your own because if they actually were, you'd be glad someone else was repping your ideas. Instead, you'd rather be counter-productive and insult someone who "mirrors your sentiments."

I'll be useful and play again seriously when tourneys get serious. I'll contribute to the winnings and the outcome as well as to the overall feeling of competition. What will you contribute? Hell, it would be luck to see you show up once in a decade.

Just close your ass and shut up like the sidebuster you are until you can comprehend the usefulness of expressing ones' self through text. The scene, as it is now, isn't worth much more. But you wouldn't know because you weren't around when it was serious and MANY, it seems, that make decisions now were sitting on the sidelines when SF was as it should be just LIKE you. No wonder you feel liberal enough to open your ass needlessly.

I may shut up soon. But take that as a queue that everything that made SF special is DEAD. Allow me to pretend it isn't just yet. In fact, if you have something you want to say to me, pm me. Hell, I'll get on irc for you if you have anything worthwhile to contribute but, unlike myself, all I seem to see from you is poo spewing from an oriface that looks like a mouth.

I'm sorry but I'm not down for the SF scene to be a place for homos like you to hook up. I know we disagree but leave it at that.

Apoc.

[JumpsuitJesse]

Wow

I must say I totally agree with Apoc. Singles is the only way it should be.

[Saotome Kaneda]

anger

Read this post plz (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106008)



And keep the hate and wistfulness out of this particular thread, please. This thread has been generally okay for about 1000 posts, dammit.

[THChardcore]

I'm sick of all the old-school hate on new school Super Turbo, why the hell would anyone be mad that people are picking up the game after over 10+ years of release? More power to the new school. To losely quote spinal tap The scene isn't dead, it's just becoming more selective. Since when was Street Fighter underground anyways? There will always be the so-called pros, elites, purists and "hardcore" fans, but there was always a casual scene since the day Street Fighter 2 hit the snes, so everyone please stop acting like this is something new. True, the switch from arcade hardware to consoles is very very poor, but if it increases the pool of competition in a quickly evaporating scene, then there isn't a thing to BITCH about. Old school players made the scene, but please don't destroy and retard it with a jaded outlook.

WORD!

[Apoc]

I'm sick of all the old-school hate on new school Super Turbo, why the hell would anyone be mad that people are picking up the game after over 10+ years of release? More power to the new school. To losely quote spinal tap The scene isn't dead, it's just becoming more selective. Since when was Street Fighter underground anyways? There will always be the so-called pros, elites, purists and "hardcore" fans, but there was always a casual scene since the day Street Fighter 2 hit the snes, so everyone please stop acting like this is something new. True, the switch from arcade hardware to consoles is very very poor, but if it increases the pool of competition in a quickly evaporating scene, then there isn't a thing to BITCH about. Old school players made the scene, but please don't destroy and retard it with a jaded outlook.

WORD!

I hope you didn't get any of that from my posts. I have ZERO hate for new school. In fact, my post had zero to do with ol skool aside from asking ol skool players if they were leaving it up to the new school to take the ol skool games back from the Japanese in tourney.

As for shit having been changed for the worse, you can't have been around or it would be clear. Console may have increased entry for some tourneys while completely eliminating the possibility for others but, don't think my problem is with consoles. My problem is with separate decisions that have led to the "quickly evaporating scene" by taking all of the pride and, essentially, the heart of the competition away. You can start the timeline from B5 where 3s was ommitted(admittedly, I didn't contest that then) or at Evo2k2 where A3 and 3s were ommitted as full tourneys. You can take that all the way up through Apex and playing on the floor at what was supposed to be the mother of all serious tourneys. It would take days to draw you a map whereas you could probably search cached srk pages for the complaints as they happened as well as myself outlining that things would be JUST like they are but that it would be hard to spot since some try to equate the THEN SF scene with todays's fighting game scene. Folks don't like to be real and compare the sf scene to the sf scene.

Dude, I wouldn't try to ruin what you have here. I'd just leave. As is, I'm back around to see if anyone cares enough to make the scene as great as it was. Of course, folks would rather blame capcom for not making any new great games but that's the problematic mentality right there. We don't even play all of the quality tourney games from capcom that are already established. Fuck the new shit. Peeps still haven't gotten it right with the old shit yet.

Apoc.

[nohoho]

SF is looking like Tyson's career.
I heard that Justin Wong has been practicing his ear biting technique on live pigs.

I may shut up soon. But take that as a queue that everything that made SF special is DEAD.
Cue. The word you want there is "cue." "Queue" refers to something people in England do when they have to pee.

[Apoc]

k, whoops. I'd better review my shit before I post! Or would that be "review my poo?" Was that "whoops" or "woops?" Damn, gotta go bye an online dicktionary.

Apoc.

[nohoho]

I'd better review my shit before I post! Or would that be "review my poo?"
The way Gian fucked your ass so hard that your "poo" now goes into a colostomy bag should make the reviewing a little easier, eh?

[Apoc]

The way Gian fucked your ass so hard that your "poo" now goes into a colostomy bag should make the reviewing a little easier, eh?

lol. I think most can tell you that I really suck nowadays. Still, my first game with Gian he barely won and I beat him the 2nd time I played him. Again, all while I played the worst SF that I ever have.

I don't try to act like I don't suck. I don't try to act like I play.

Oh...wowzy wowzy woo woo(did I spell that right?).

But hey, please, give me incentive to play. I'm looking for it. How about sending me that vid you're speaking of? You do have a vid, right? lol

Thanx for keeping me posting:)

Apoc.

[Koop]

the new generation....i swear...no respect.

[spirokeat]

I'm impressed you guys kept a SF scene going for as long as you all have to be honest. I live in the North of England and ours died on its arse about 10 years ago. In fact there are almost no arcades that host cabinet machines at all around this area now, the few that exist have mainly slots and hydraulics that are always fucked and not worth shit as a game to play.

At one point the town I lived in had about 10 machines seeded about it ranging from old WW to Hyper when it came out, never mind the larger cities near me which had more. Plus there was a scene to boot, people whose names you knew in the arcades or at least what character they favoured or were best with. Still, I never truly went away from playing, the arcades just left us.

The AE has got me back playing, its not arcade perfect I know but I will play it and enjoy and some of my old SF mates might even get back playing more, I know for sure one of the lads has a Hyper cab stuck in his garage perhaps we will make a few calls and talk to people I aint seen in years....thats what SF could mean to me........

Talking of which. Im struggling trying to get a Dhalsim slide cross-up out. Anyone explain how thats done or have I misunderstood the tactic ?

[archetype]

Nohoho, thanks for the vids.

That one T Hawk player was simply amazing. That match against blanka was so deep! And the walk up 360 kills were just bad ass!

Thanks man!

Which vid was that?

[Shirts]

I'd say we just have a grudge match:

New School vs. Old School/Middle School

New School has ZERO chance BTW.

P.S. I love everyone.

[margalis]

Problem with team tournaments is that "making friends" shouldn't be an important tournament skill. Team tournaments are fun but that's what they are - fun. Not serious.

[nohoho]

Talking of which. Im struggling trying to get a Dhalsim slide cross-up out. Anyone explain how thats done or have I misunderstood the tactic ?
You can cross up with a slide after a noogie or as air defense. A-Dhalsim explained the former in detail earlier in this thread, I think. Gist is: after a noogie grab take a fraction of a step forward then do a medium kick slide that hits them backwards. Turn it into a three hit combo with back+fierce. Dizzies. This medium kick slide trick works only on skinny characters like Chun-Li and Vega but you can do noogie -> cross-up roundhouse slide against most of the ST roster, I think. (yer fucked if that one is blocked, tho')

For air defense you want to slide underneath them as they land. Medium slide -> headbutt works here, too. Short slide -> down-back+medium kick is easier. I think this trick works on anyone but it is easier to do against fatter characters.

[Dasrik]

New School has ZERO chance BTW.
But there was this guy on IRC the other day that said he owns you... he also said ST sucks and you just have to throw all day to win. He also was not Shirts for sure. His nick was different! ;)

[nohoho]

Two videos of shootingD(ryu) vs. otochun. Look for the xgati05_xx.zip links. Upcoming "gatchi" battles are otochun vs. tsuji(blarg) and shootingD vs. tsuji, btw. Thems the three top players right now, I guess.

http://streetfighter.jugem.jp/?eid=67

(oh, again, use an alternative decompression program like winrar or stuffit if regular zip isn't working)

[CigarBoB]

Here is where I stand on ST at evo.

I highly doubt that will take over ST for evo. Mainly beacuse I dont want to any more. I want to run side tournies. So if the EVO staff decides not to have ST this year so be it. But I will be running a 3v3 ST tourny. On the side. The main reason I dont want to take up EVO ST is beacuse I dont want all 3 of the cabinets im taking this year to be used only for ST. I want to run a 3s 3v3, A3, HF and maybe XvSF if DogFace will run it.

If any one wants to do a signles ST tourny bring an arcade cabinet and run it. Other wise its 3v3.

As far as 3v3 not being competitive enough. Bah I find them more fun. Just take the effort and put together a team before the tourny.

((HUGS)) to apoc!

[eks]

Problem with team tournaments is that "making friends" shouldn't be an important tournament skill. Team tournaments are fun but that's what they are - fun. Not serious.

SBO is not a serious tournament?

[N-Trade]

SBO is not a serious tournament?

Correct.

[nohoho]

Neither is X-Mania.

Oh I hadn't watched those two vids when I posted the above. Shit is pretty hot. ShootingD gets in the zone with the half-step back -> fierce red fireball routine in xxgati5_19.wmv.

[BarrelO]

Problem with team tournaments is that "making friends" shouldn't be an important tournament skill. Team tournaments are fun but that's what they are - fun. Not serious.

Will you come to Evo and be on my team?

[Alphastorm]

SBO is not a serious tournament?

SBO is a show.

[Eishi]

IMO the expression "not serious", when it comes to video games, refers to people playing without giving all they got and/or not using the most effective strategies. As everybody knows, this is far from being the case at the SBO so I really can't see why someone would qualifiy this tournament as "not serious".

[Alphastorm]

serious means you need a series of rounds to prove you are better than someone. I disagree with this but that is how americans think.

[margalis]

IMO the expression "not serious", when it comes to video games, refers to people playing without giving all they got and/or not using the most effective strategies. As everybody knows, this is far from being the case at the SBO so I really can't see why someone would qualifiy this tournament as "not serious".

Again, my problem with team tournaments is that one of the primary skills is having the right friends or knowing the right people. SF is fundamentally an individual sport. If you look at other sports that are individual turned into team, like relay races and such, what you see is that nobody really cares about them. They are just filler. People are interested in the fastest man in the world, not the fasted 4x100 relay team in the world.

Team tournaments are a lot of fun but to have the only tournament in a game be a team tournament is not a great test of skill. And team tournaments involve even less actual teamwork than relay races.

In then end people care about the best players, not the best team. When was the last time someone created a thread about how team X in game Y is the best? Yeah...never.

I don't want to derail this thread into a big dicussion on team tournaments, and I will say that a team tournament is better than no tournament. I'll just leave it at that.

[SureYouCan!]

Any tips for S. Zangief against ST Dhalsim? As far as I can see it's a case of getting close to Dhalsim and trying the 360 or any other combo eg MK+Lariat. How can you do this with S.Zangief? With ST Zangief you can use the green hand to get closer, but not with S Zangief.

Any vids out there of Zangief vs Dhalsim where Zangief actually wins? I tried looking for Kuni vids, but I didnt see any where he plays against Dhalsim.

[N-Trade]

IMO the expression "not serious", when it comes to video games, refers to people playing without giving all they got and/or not using the most effective strategies. As everybody knows, this is far from being the case at the SBO so I really can't see why someone would qualifiy this tournament as "not serious".

The whole 'serious' debate here was in reference to the team aspect of SBO. Playing in a team makes it 'non-serious' in the sense that the tournament winners aren't necessarily the best players (which is IMO the purpose of a tourney). In a 3 man team ABC, players A and B can lose every single game they play and still win the tournament. Remember those other 2 guys on Izu's team that won SBO? Me neither. But they still won it.

I'm not doubting the 'seriousness' of the comp. Futhermore, for anyone who lives outside of japan, this is the best comp you can get. I just feel that the winner of the tourney should be the best player straight up, no technicalities.

serious means you need a series of rounds to prove you are better than someone. I disagree with this but that is how americans think.

Again, I don't think this was what was being debated. I will say though that while I do like the 'one game' aspect of SBO in that you need to be playing your best all the time o/w ur eliminated, it is a fact that the more games played between 2 players, the better player will win through. Single games have a higher probability of luck/fluke determining the outcome. If I played a single game against Daigo there's prolly an 80% chance he'd beat me but if we played best of 101 games, there'd be a 99% probability he'd beat me. That's just basic maths and not 'how americans think'.

IMO, the ideal tournament setting is the same/similar to EVO but without the option of changing characters. So one character per tourney, multi game finals. That'd be the best way of determining the best player ie a 'serious' tourney.

If u want a tourney for entertainment only then yeah, team tourney is great. However, while I do respect the whole one game thing, one game finals are hella anti-climatic.

[Alphastorm]

I didn't disagree with the math. I just don't agree it can't be serious if it's only one game. Games like 3s, st are already best 2 out of 3. There's no reason to extend it.

[FMJaguar]

In 3s you keep meter and super arts between rounds, the match is not reset other than having full life again. Ironically it would work better in ST than 3s.

When the scene is overflowing with tournaments then it's probably worthwhile to debate which format is better. Currently it's just best to get people the most for their money, since noone knows when they'll get a chance to play again.

So anyway, where are the NEC vids, lets go!

[spirokeat]

Commenting specifically on the process of a competition and not about SF directly and also about how shows/events are organised......but....

Why is it so difficult to arrange a singles tourney at the same time as a team one ? SF matches are fairly bloody quick...that I can comment on with utter conviction.

If its simply an issue of the event organisers refusing then my question is answered of course...what I wonder is why is their even being a debate if its optional ? why a team tourney ? then why not a singles one.

Oh and while Im here...I see the general commentry on 'Sim says that matches against T-hawk are in 'sims favour...but Im finding his ability to command throw hard to avoid....the air charges are fine i can just block and st.rh but he comes onto me and 360's all the time. I have a hard time zoning him....any comments ?

[NKI]

Any tips for S. Zangief against ST Dhalsim?I don't know the match myself, but you need to know exactly what beats each and every one of Sim's normals (standing and crouching) so that you can counter his limbs from half screen (which is where you'll be most likely).

I can't remember which tourney it was (maybe X-MANIA IV?), but some Jap O.Gief went on a terror streak and owned up hella fools (including at least one Sim). Once I get home I'll see if I can find them, 'cause that's probably the best example of how to beat Sim with Gief. It's a pretty hard match.

I see the general commentry on 'Sim says that matches against T-hawk are in 'sims favour...but Im finding his ability to command throw hard to avoid....the air charges are fine i can just block and st.rh but he comes onto me and 360's all the time. I have a hard time zoning him....any comments ?If Hawk gets in, Sim is in trouble, but the problem is Sim has all the tools to keep Hawk out for the entire match. The only thing that I know of that Hawk can use is his j.Fierce (which beats a lot of Sims limbs and anti-air moves), and psychic DP, but those tools alone are not nearly enough to win the match.

[geadom]

NKI: That Gief match is in SSF2:X Taikou. He pwns A LOT of ppl..

[nohoho]

I[Dhalsim] have a hard time zoning him[Hawk]....any comments ?
Did you watch those Evo 3 on 3 videos? (are those still available somewhere?) Cole vs. GQSodom should provide some material that you can x-copy. Hawk needs to jump over your standing/crouching strongs, fireballs etc, and you need to discourage him from doing that. You got standing forward, standing rh, and jump-back fierce as air defense depending on the range, eh? Instead of hitting chikyuu out of the air sometimes Cole would just standing strong as he landed to push him away. (could GQ have psychic DPed that shit? fuck do I know)

Japanese players do a lot of short vertical yoga flames to build meter. (like in that Xmania V video NKI ripped) I'm thinking in a pinch the super is a nice option to have in addition to the teleport? Heh maybe practice up on your wake-up super reversals?

EDIT: I'm about to double post but:
Vol1#4 and Vol4#6 in the first link below feature T.Hawk vs. Dhalsim. More material to x-copy. |',,,'|

[nohoho]

A bucket of SSF2T movies:
http://page.freett.com/msc_movie_001/
Samples from some DVD. Holy crap that vol1 #4 match I mentioned at the bottom of the post before this one is fucking intense.

http://page.freett.com/mof_movie_001/
Yay!

Here's (http://www.irika.net/movie/sf_select.htm) the original page with the frames. Go click on the guy's ads or something.

[Pained Auron]

i was playing anniversary yesterday, and i noticed that almost everytime i tried to do a crossup, i was thrown. you could see the animation for the move (ex cammy j.lk) come out, then i got thrown. is this shit random?

[Khiempossible]

you can get thrown off any jump in that doesn't stun long enough for combo. You can get thrown on block for sure. If it's too early and it acts as a tick your opponent I think can "reverse tick" 100%. So you just have to time that crossup properly. I find Guile's pretty hard. But use practice mode and learn the timing that gives you combo counts. I play DJ and get it 100% (but his is like retardedly easy).

[nohoho]

-new avatar-
Boo!

Here are some of the players from the msc movies (see above) in case anyone is curious.
White Hawk - Toutanki
Red Claw - Holy Scarlet Bal
Dark Blue Guile, CE Ryu - Kurahashi
Blue Ken (msc3_13) - Aikawa
Blue Ken (the rest) - Mattsun
Grey/Red Boxer - Tamashima
White Guile - Muteguile(Muteki?)
Blue Fei, Red Fei - Noguchi
Red Gief - Ponimura(Pony?)
Grey/Red Cammy - Tsunoppi
Green/Orange Psycho - MoreVega

[jms]

Here are some of the players

Thanks!

[dakkonmc]

Does anyone know any info on this?

http://i7.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/84/37/50_1.JPG

[jms]

Does anyone know any info on this?

http://i7.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/84/37/50_1.JPG

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2824323&postcount=105

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2835627&postcount=137

http://www.vgmworld.com/catalog/index.php?table=cocoebiz_dvd&item_num=14

[NKI]

White Guile - Muteguile(Muteki?)
Red Gief - Ponimura(Pony?)Correct on both.

<3 Toutanki's T.Hawk. Foo is a beast!! :wow:

[archetype]

Thx A Lot Nohoho!!

[NKI]

New translations hot off the press!
http://nki.combovideos.com/ST/

Items of interest in this batch:
-standing 720 is possible with Gief, but not with Hawk
-not all the stages are the same length
-Boxer's Strong throw has more range than his Fierce throw, even though they're the same throw
-old characters and new characters have the exact same walking speed
-Final TAP builds more meter than any other move in the game (66% meter)

[Ouroborus]

few questions:

does og sagats lp tiger uppercut comes out faster and has more invincibility than his hp tiger uppercut? many times i tried the hp tiger uppercut, it either gets blocked, stuffed or trade hits.

and blankas forward jungle hop. what moves does it go thru? right now i'm under the impression it goes thru moves that hit the upper body but still not too sure.

[Best Kind Boxer]

New translations hot off the press!
http://nki.combovideos.com/ST/

Good Job!!! :tup:

Also to nohoho!! If I could rep you guys i would.

Toutanki is slick! Watching him play is a treat. He makes T.Hawk look GOOD.

EDIT: Both of Hawk's normal throws have the same range? WAH?

[N-Trade]

A bucket of SSF2T movies:


Holy shit! Thanx a lot bro! Anyone know a program or add-on in mozilla that can download all the files from a webpage... my old ass is hella lazy!

I'm thinking in a pinch the super is a nice option to have in addition to the teleport? Heh maybe practice up on your wake-up super reversals?


U forgot Dhalsim can't do this :wink:

[Eishi]

Anyone know a program or add-on in mozilla that can download all the files from a webpage... my old ass is hella lazy!

Here you go : http://downthemall.mozdev.org/


Thanks a lot for sharing those great links nohoho :tup:

[N-Trade]

Here you go : http://downthemall.mozdev.org/


Thanks a lot for sharing those great links nohoho :tup:

<3 :tup:

[nohoho]

U forgot Dhalsim can't do this [reversal inferno]
D'oh. Wait, actually, I admit I forgot but spirokeat is playing on AE where they fixed that shizzle, no?

-standing 720 is possible with Gief, but not with Hawk
I think Ponder wrote in some other thread that he saw Hawk players in Japan doing this with ease.

and blankas forward jungle hop. what moves does it go thru? right now i'm under the impression it goes thru moves that hit the upper body but still not too sure.
It goes over some low attacks. IIRC, in one of the ST beta versions it was totally invincible.

[BarrelO]

does og sagats lp tiger uppercut comes out faster and has more invincibility than his hp tiger uppercut? many times i tried the hp tiger uppercut, it either gets blocked, stuffed or trade hits.

Well, according to the frame data on the first page, every version of the TU has the same amount of startup. And I don't think either version has any invincibility.

Anyway, I have kind of a scrubby question. What's the best way to input the O.Sagat code? I do up, down, down, up, punch. I've had a couple of people tell me to just mash up and down on the stick, but that doesn't really work any better for me. I usually get it, but sometimes it takes me a few tries to get it right, and I don't see anyone else fuck up the code with any degree of regularity. Then again, I don't really get to play ST except at majors, so maybe I just need more practice.

[Best Kind Boxer]

I think Ponder wrote in some other thread that he saw Hawk players in Japan doing this with ease..

Hawk's 720 has some leniancy in that you can slow down/hold a direction. So you can do it, end at -> and walk a bit and then hit a button. Looks like a standing 720.

I remember reading that you can sort of partition it a la 3rd Strike as well. Do one motion, end at ->, walk a bit and then do the rest. I haven't been able to recreate it though.

I've also read about storing it? Dunno anything about that though.

[archetype]

Hawk doing standing 720, courtesy of Jinrai for finding it.

http://s37.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1NEOWKFZDFVP53UQ9UGUR256SE

[Best Kind Boxer]

Nice! Not true "standing 720", but kara-720. But I'm just picking nits.

From NKI's translation: "A standing 720 is possible if you finish the motion within 7 frames of initially pressing up. However, even if you do so, you will only get a standing 720 about half the time (and the other half of the time he will jump). A flawlessly executed standing 720 is completed 6 frames after initially pressing up."

So you can finish executing the 720 within 6-7 frames after hitting up (pre-jump). Which makes sense with the standing kara-720 because (also from NKI's translation) you can kara a normal in 7 frames. The normal would take the place of pre-jump, and allow Hawk to do the same.

Right? I dunno :P

[felineki]

Anyway, I have kind of a scrubby question. What's the best way to input the O.Sagat code? I do up, down, down, up, punch. I've had a couple of people tell me to just mash up and down on the stick, but that doesn't really work any better for me. I usually get it, but sometimes it takes me a few tries to get it right, and I don't see anyone else fuck up the code with any degree of regularity. Then again, I don't really get to play ST except at majors, so maybe I just need more practice.
Each character actually has their own unique code for playing as the Old version, but all of the codes are very similar. They all consist of four joystick motions and then the button press to select. Furthermore, they are split into two groups: those characters whose codes consist of only Left and Right motions, and those whose codes consist only of Up and Down motions. The input time for the code is fairly lenient, so all you have to really do is remember whether the character you want is a "Left/Right" type or an "Up/Down" type, and jiggle the joystick back and forth accordingly... the motions for the code will usually get detected.

Of course, if you actually know the character's individual code, you can probably select them more easily than the jiggle method, but the latter works well enough.

PS. Nohoho, thanks for the links to those vids. And double thanks because the DVD Opening movie for MSC Vol. 2 uses music from The End of Evangelion. >D

[NKI]

By "standing 720", T.Akiba meant without using anything to ground yourself (like kara canceling).

For those who can't read Japanese, the text file included with that vid (the st.Fierce kara canceled into 720 with Hawk) says pretty much:

-It was done with a programmable stick.
-You can use Jab or Strong as well, but for some reason Fierce works a lot better.
-You'll often get a regular Typhoon instead of super.
-It is pretty damn hard to do by hand, so it's not all that useful.

As for Sagat's TU, I don't know for sure because I don't play him, but the general trend throughout ST is that Jab/Short versions of special moves have the most invincibility (Ken's and Ryu's DPs, Chun's upkicks and Spinning Bird Kick, Hawk's uppercut, etc).

[N-Trade]

Anyway, I have kind of a scrubby question. What's the best way to input the O.Sagat code? I do up, down, down, up, punch. .

You got the code right, make sure u press jab or fierce for the punch. Personally I say forget the code. Assumin ur right handed what I do is wiggle up and down with my right hand and press jab repeatedly with my left index finger. Don't spaz the joystick up and down, nice and steady.

Like nohoho says, the hardest part of winnin with O.Sagat is actually selecting him!

[dublo7]

[SNIP!!]

Anyway, I have kind of a scrubby question. What's the best way to input the O.Sagat code? I do up, down, down, up, punch. I've had a couple of people tell me to just mash up and down on the stick, but that doesn't really work any better for me. I usually get it, but sometimes it takes me a few tries to get it right, and I don't see anyone else fuck up the code with any degree of regularity. Then again, I don't really get to play ST except at majors, so maybe I just need more practice.

i think its just practice. shaking the stick up and down and pressing jab at the same time always works for me. now this is the only time i'll do things a la skillian read cross - handed. i use my right hand to shake the stick and my left to press jab.

...its just practice.

ehh, st sagat isn't that bad, is he?:wonder:

[SNkNuT]

i thought he was bad cause his uppercut does multiple hits insted of the one solid hit o sagat has. and his fireball was slower too.

[Dasrik]

ST Sagat isn't bad, it's just there's absolutely no reason to pick him over O.Sagat. His super sucks. His normals aren't as cancellable. If throw softening is a problem, I'd posit you need to figure out how to do fireballs if you're getting thrown that often. The only reason is "to fuck around with your opponent", and that's no reason at all.

[Best Kind Boxer]

Dasrik: hey, some of us like to prove or worth by not picking the tiger turret, but that is the only reason. You are right.

NKI: How long is T.Hawk's pre-jump compared to Zangief? I will assume it's less than 7-6? Or is there something else that prevents him from doing a true standing 720?

[nohoho]

After the 3 on 3 tournament at grandmaster challenge they had an exhibition match between the winning team. Some vids... (a team tourney followed by an exhibition tourney? I bet the type of player who regularly participates in such unserious events would get HOUSED at Evo. Oh, wait a second...)

http://streetfighter.jugem.jp/?eid=67

x1218_45.zip ShootingD vs Otochun
x1218_46.zip Gian vs. Otochun
x1218_47.zip ShootingD vs. Gian

NKI: How long is T.Hawk's pre-jump compared to Zangief? I will assume it's less than 7-6? Or is there something else that prevents him from doing a true standing 720?
heh? (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2758688&postcount=801)
oh shit btw re: this old post I bet the reason Nos99 was kara-cancelling standing kicks with sagat with 236K~K was because he was trying to tiger too early before an old one had disappeared

[Best Kind Boxer]

(from earlier in the thread) "Though I don't think it's ever been officially tested, people have generally agreed that Hawk has fewer pre-jump frames after you hit up (before he actually leaves the ground), so you have less time to execute a standing 360 (you have to do it faster)."

I really should read the thread before I post.

[dublo7]

in the evo2k6 forum the organizers are polling to find out what version of st should be @ evo.

i think u guyz might want to say somethin about that. link below:
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106453
:sweat: :sad: :arazz: :confused:

[polarity]

Hey NKI, I was just fucking around in Kawaks trying to learn the macro system and found something weird that may well be common knowledge, but I was wondering if you could explain it.

When doing the macro d,df,f,,,,,,,,,,d4,,,,df,f3 with Ken, I occasionally got a qcf+k coming out instead. Removing frames from between the f and d4 increases the ratio of qcf+k to super (d,df,f,,,,,,,,,d4,,,,df,f3 is probably the closest to 1:1). I understand why the game might read the input as the qcf+k motion, but why is it sometimes one and sometimes the other, rather than there being a set # of frames between the down and down+lk inputs, under which you get the qcf+k, and on or over which you get the c.lk?

[Saotome Kaneda]

I really should read the thread before I post.
You're better than most, who never bother even after being flamed for pages. =p

[Dasrik]

Random Dasrik post:

Old Honda has a big advantage over New Honda in his standing set of moves. I've played both, and honestly, I can't do anything with ST Honda's new kicks.

[NKI]

Dasrik is right. There is an O.Honda player in Tokyo, by the name of shougatsu ("the new year"), and that guy straight wrecked me with O.Honda's st.Jab. N.Honda can't get away with such shenanigans.

[polarity]

When should I be using N.Ryu's c.mp? I see a lot of players using it in vids, but I rarely use it. What are its advantages over c.mk? Priority? An analysis of when it's best to use both c.mp and c.mk would be useful, actually.

[Crayfish]

When should I be using N.Ryu's c.mp? I see a lot of players using it in vids, but I rarely use it. What are its advantages over c.mk? Priority? An analysis of when it's best to use both c.mp and c.mk would be useful, actually.

Can't give you a comprehensive breakdown, but Shoto c.mp has extrememly unusual properties. It can (with good timing) snuff things like Honda's far s.HK, Blanka's HP slide and even Claw's c.mp at near full range! In Hyperfighting, Ryu had a whole fireball zoning strategy against Guile based on countering his air attacks with c.mp.
btw s.mp is great too, its your midrange counter-footsie. Try it against uber midrange pokes like Gief s.mk.

Crayfish.

[NKI]

Whoops, sorry I forgot to reply to this.When doing the macro d,df,f,,,,,,,,,,d4,,,,df,f3 with Ken, I occasionally got a qcf+k coming out instead. [...] why is it sometimes one and sometimes the other, rather than there being a set # of framesCould be something with the way Kawaks was programmed, but most likely it is just another part of ST that is mad random. There are other examples of frame numbers being random, like for almost all charge moves, there is no set number of frames that you need to charge. It varies by one or two frames.
When should I be using N.Ryu's c.mp? I see a lot of players using it in vids, but I rarely use it. What are its advantages over c.mk?cr.Strong has great priority (can stuff lots of things cleanly, like Boxer's rushes), and it recovers very quickly (much more quickly than cr.Forward), so you can whiff them without much risk. It also has a higher hit box, so it's better against things that would go over Ryu's cr.Forward.

[Pained Auron]

i'm thinking of using cammy, any tips besides j. hp, s.hp, cannon drill?

[jms]

i'm thinking of using cammy, any tips besides j. hp, s.hp, cannon drill?

That's not a tip, that's a combo. Here's a tip: don't play Cammy!

I don't see the allure of playing Cammy outside of her fast walking speed + c.fwd, and her hooligan grab. If you enjoy playing such a limited character, then please be the third Cammy player in the United States! I'll watch the videos of you becoming world champion whilst eating my hat.

[Pained Auron]

That's not a tip, that's a combo. Here's a tip: don't play Cammy!

I don't see the allure of playing Cammy outside of her fast walking speed + c.fwd, and her hooligan grab. If you enjoy playing such a limited character, then please be the third Cammy player in the United States! I'll watch the videos of you becoming world champion whilst eating my hat.


well yea, but i really have no idea who else i can use. hrm, maybe i'll stick with ryu

[margalis]

i'm thinking of using cammy, any tips besides j. hp, s.hp, cannon drill?

Um... low forward is good, stand forward is good, jumping strong is good...Cammy is one of those characters who doesn't have one or two really simple good strategies so it takes a lot more skill to play her.

[JumpsuitJesse]

That's not a tip, that's a combo. Here's a tip: don't play Cammy!
If you enjoy playing such a limited character, then please be the third Cammy player in the United States! I'll watch the videos of you becoming world champion whilst eating my hat.

Wow. You know, many said the same thing about Fei Long when SSF2 and ST came out.

I think Cammy can be a real bitch in the right hands. So the guy wants to learn some strats with Cammy....don't knock him for it.

[nohoho]

http://www.putfile.com/nohoho

I uploaded that YSB Omake file -- it's all the way at the bottom. It's a collection of single round selections from an earlier starcup, I think. The highlight as far as I'm concerned is the blue zangief player, Kouchou. Check out the round from kouchou vs. muteki at the end of "part 2."

I also put (http://www.putfile.com) a shootingD vs pony match, one of the mattsun movies from master secret cup and a recent popy clip up there.

[Koop]

other than jumpsuit, shirts, nki

who has actually been in a tournament??

I ask this not as a diss but as to why do you guys watch the video's so much of japanese play?? I cant... cause in every tournament reaction and timing is a bitch... its more than trying to mimic super top tier play...

just a question cause i never go the drift of watching videos like its a pre game tape before a football game. dont take this wrong...but i just want to know how many of you actually been in the tournament enviornment...

oh an please make sure IF xbox360 does the little capcom thing that you guys join up so we can play unless you guys actually travel...

[Ouroborus]

i have and i got owned by gian :sad:

[polarity]

Don't mess with Muteki, dude's one angry motherfucker.

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/8299/littleangrymuteki7ce.jpg

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/5955/mediumangrymuteki1xa.jpg

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/7053/bigangrymuteki4me.jpg

[nohoho]

Muteki's kinda cute. I'd do him over Aniken any day.

[geadom]

Hi, i just started playing Fei-Long and need some tips about:

How to combo the rekkas------ I never get it, and always miss the second or the third.
Good pokes / situations to use them------------------ my whole game is cr. Fierce :(
The "almost a 360" kick ---------- situations to use this, gimmicks and how to do it consistent!
Presure Strings-------- Most commons /usefuls.
Guile------ how the hell i do beat him?

Thanks in advance

[Eishi]

Is there a way to save the files from putfile to the hard drive ?

[N-Trade]

Is there a way to save the files from putfile to the hard drive ?

Was gonna ask you the same question, seeing as u introduced me to that amazing downthemall.

U can do it, but I wish there was an easier way. Anyone know one?

This is how I do it using mozilla: Click on the movie link then on the next page press stop before the video starts loading. Now right-click (it's disabled, but keep pressing both mouse buttons, the context menu will appear eventually). Then go to view page info. Now click the fourth tab, media. Scroll down in that window 'til u come to an object of type 'embed', click once and save as.

[Eishi]

Thanks N-trade, very nice trick :tup:

[N-Trade]

other than jumpsuit, shirts, nki

who has actually been in a tournament??

I ask this not as a diss but as to why do you guys watch the video's so much of japanese play?? I cant... cause in every tournament reaction and timing is a bitch... its more than trying to mimic super top tier play...

This should be obvious but: watching high level play, japanese or not, is very entertaining. This is the only way to see the highest level of play outside of living and playing in japan, which none of us do. Vids are highly informative too. However, no one watches a vid believing it'll increase their timing or reaction speed. Everyone knows that u need to consistently play good comp to become better. Nobody watches these vids believing they'll be the next Daigo if they mimic them.

Hopefully that's sorted out ur confusion. What has being in a tournament got do with anything? Why the insecurity? Why troll in this great thread? Alas, I do not know : (

[jaminbenjamin]

I've been to a couple big tournaments, and the videos posted here don't have a lot to do with that. I think they do give you some good guidelines, though, especially in terms of what moves each character uses primarily and what zones are good and bad for each character. Outside of that, though, they are also like displays of art; people don't paint and then throw it away, though some should consider that...

[Koop]

Hopefully that's sorted out ur confusion. What has being in a tournament got do with anything? Why the insecurity? Why troll in this great thread? Alas, I do not know : (


sorry trade but im not trolling...

next ive posted before an people who know me WITHIN the tournament scene asked me to just keep an eye on the tread an add my tidbit here n there when things are not being answered


then insecurity....nah...ive played the best and made a name for myself within the south an east coast...i only asked because I always get those that i see TRYING TO MIMIC what they see on a video from the japanese an end up getting their asses handed to them. im not knockin the level of play...just that majority of cases ive delt with cats try to mimic an not use tatical brain power an skill...its all flash to em.

I only asked about tournament wise cause just like above i want to know has those video helped you honestly???? everyone i play or played me (from mid level to top tier level) after a match its discussion on wits an strats that make sense an whats comfortable for you...

so in essense trade...is it entertainment or does it help you??? cause i [opinion] don't see it helping you get better.... simple question from someone thats been on the scene for a hot minute [not tootin my horn or braggin] an doesnt get the jist of it...

hope that helped you

Koop

[Eishi]

im not knockin the level of play...just that majority of cases ive delt with cats try to mimic an not use tatical brain power an skill...its all flash to em.

Videos are a tools, and like all tools they can be used wisely or stupidly. Copying what you see in videos without understanding it is obviously dumb.


I only asked about tournament wise cause just like above i want to know has those video helped you honestly????

I think that videos are a great source of information. You can learn all kinds of things from them : combos, tricks, strategies, bugs... but watching them alone will not make anyone good. Just like reading a book on Kung Fu isn't going to make you a Kung Fu master.

[jms]

Wow. You know, many said the same thing about Fei Long when SSF2 and ST came out.

I think Cammy can be a real bitch in the right hands. So the guy wants to learn some strats with Cammy....don't knock him for it.

Hey Jesse: I wouldn't say the same thing about Fei. Even though Fei often gets lumped in the bottom tier (along with Cammy), it's amazing how fast all his bad matchups turn into wins when he gets in your face. I know what Fei's plan is. I don't know what Cammy's plan is...and I couldn't recommend playing a character with no plan. Maybe someone can come in here and make a case for Cammy.

You hear that Mike Creque? Cammy sucks!

[Koop]

Videos are a tools, and like all tools they can be used wisely or stupidly. Copying what you see in videos without understanding it is obviously dumb.




I think that videos are a great source of information. You can learn all kinds of things from them : combos, tricks, strategies, bugs... but watching them alone will not make anyone good. Just like reading a book on Kung Fu isn't going to make you a Kung Fu master.



Thanks... :tup: appreciate the opinion



-ntrade - dont take that post wrong...i was answering your questions like the ones i had...


-jms: ol mike is retired somewhere with his woman...i really dont think cammy is on his mind right now...though i wont be suprised if he does pop up an state his defense...

[jms]

-jms: ol mike is retired somewhere with his woman...i really dont think cammy is on his mind right now...though i wont be suprised if he does pop up an state his defense...

haha, thanks Koop. I'll try to rile him up. Check your PMs!

[nohoho]

Hi, i just started playing Fei-Long and need some tips about:
How to combo the rekkas------ I never get it, and always miss the second or the third.
Using multiple button presses helps. Instead of using only your index or middle finger for the second and third rekkas try using both in a super fast (piano style) double tap.

There is some FeiLong wisdom earlier in this thread, if I remember correctly.
a) NKI discussed the standing fierce -> chicken kick (db, d, dt, ut + k) corner trap. I think he was talking specifically about how Chun Li and others can escape the trap but I'm certain you'll find the info useful.

b) Jumpsuit, I think, talked a little about doing safe (fierce jab jab, innit?) blocked Rekkas -- spacing, timing, etc. Maybe he'll hit you with some vs. guile tips heh.

Oh the short flame kick/throw guessing game can be fucking deadly.

[Masaka]

You hear that Mike Creque? Cammy sucks!

Oh no you didn't!

Well...actually...she does kind of suck :( But I long ago accepted that, and that didn't really stop me from playing her because I enjoyed it.

i'm thinking of using cammy, any tips besides j. hp, s.hp, cannon drill?

If you're going to play Cammy, get used to a few things:

a) Walking back and forth. A lot. Cammy has really quick walking speed, pretty good normals on the ground in standing fwd, crouching fwd, standing fierce and and close standing strong. You're going to need every one of those to out poke your opponents. Her close standing strong, for example, is great anti-air, and gives a bit of a guessing game as you can walk under them for attacks on the other side.

b) Learn the ranges of your cannon drills. You can use it to poke, you can use it to punish whiffed attacks, but you have to know what range you can use it safely from. The short version is the one you'll probably use the most since it's effective range is just outside of Cammy's ideal range (for most fights).

c) Using jump strong. One of the most oddly useful normals in the game, it will give you a safe jump in against a lot of characters. Won't help you beat Honda, but those are the breaks.

d) How to use the Hooligan. I'm painfully guilty of overusing this move, but it's the main reason I started playing Cammy. I love it, but it can (and has), cost me plenty of matches because I was way too predictable with it. I use it after blocked strings, blocked pokes, after blocked cannon drills, and sometimes on the opposite side of the screen for no reason other than to build some meter.

e) Learn to crossup with short. It's an easy thing to do against the fat characters like Sim, Guile and Fei, and leads to low strong, standing fierce xx cannon drill.

f) Losing. Inserted here only to pre-empt smartasses who would quote my post and add it in for me afterward, with useful forum lingo like "u frgot losing lol"


-jms: ol mike is retired somewhere with his woman...i really dont think cammy is on his mind right now...though i wont be suprised if he does pop up an state his defense...

Right you are Koop, right you are! PM me sometime bro, I'm living in NOVA now.

[Shag]

Right you are Koop, right you are! PM me sometime bro, I'm living in NOVA now.

Hey man, what's up with Chris Li? Told me a couple of years back you guys were living close by and I should come down to DC area to play you guys.

[JumpsuitJesse]

Hi, i just started playing Fei-Long and need some tips about:

How to combo the rekkas------ I never get it, and always miss the second or the third.

Its all in the rhythm. Master getting them down in practice mode. You dont have to do them super fast...just do them in a smooth 123 rhythm and they will all connect. Practice until it becomes second nature

Good pokes / situations to use them------------------ my whole game is cr. Fierce :(

Cr. fierce is a great poke but it leaves you open. Low strong is good but it can be blocked high and low if I recall correctly. Fierce rekka punch from max distance is a great poke and it does chip damage. You can usually do one and stop and get away with it because you are still safe to block. Do 2 of them thats where it starts to get tricky. You wanna stay within the max range of Fei's fierce rekka punches....that is his best zone for offense. Anywhere outside of that and you are nothing more than a mini e honda(meaning you have all of his weaknesses for getting in to do damage). Use regular moves as pokes if you like, but my main poke are the rekka punches. Learn that first before moving onto the other trix.

The "almost a 360" kick ---------- situations to use this, gimmicks and how to do it consistent!

Well, like I said before...PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. Its pretty much a yoga flame motion(HCF+Fwd flip)....its very similar to a tiger knee motion. There are so many ways to use this kick its kinda crazy. Its a great combo starter because you can connect standing fierce after the 3 hit...sometimes you can just connect 2 of the hits from the kick and still combo. It crosses up if you can time it right. It juggles. It has funny start up animation properties(invincibility) and has even crazier priorities in the air. You can try mastering 2 in 1'ing the kick off of feis regular close punches but its risky... Using Fei period is risky because hes a brawler fighter. Much like Gief, Honda and anyone without a projectile. There is nothing Fei has that is 100 percent like Ryu and Ken. You have to get a feel for your opponent and guage their confidence. If you see that they fall victim to meaty attacks then exploit it. If you get reversed left and right then you will have to back off and try another way. I focus all of my game around my opponents self confidence because I am betting that they will fuck up and pay dearly for one mistake vs me eating a reversal. Its a risk but the payoffs can be huge.



Guile------ how the hell i do beat him?

Thanks in advance

This is one of my favorite fights. A smart guile can almost ALWAYS keep fei away with booms and trading hits....and again this is where staying just outside his low fwd kicks range(aka max rekka punch range). If you are quick enough you can punish guile for missed low fwd kicks. Take it from me, you will eat alot of low kicks and alot of booms so be on your guard. Low fierce works great because it can counter guiles low attacks cleanly most of the time. Your best bet is to not let guile breathe and once you are inside use tick throws...bait him into missing his reversal flash kicks and punish him with big damage rekka combos.....just dont let him breath because once he pushes you back out its back to square one again and you have to get back in to do damage.

Many players love to watch and mimic other players strats. Take bites and leave the rest. Thats fine but just be sure to come up with your own mix of strats. You can learn someones strats off of a video but nothing is going to teach you more than taking your beatings and learning from your mistakes.

[ANaqvi]

I have had plenty of experience against solid Sim players and here's the little I know regarding Sim versus Gief. While it is a very hard fight for Gief, he can still win. Dhalsim players generally plays one of two ways when fighting Gief. Some Dhalsim players like to rapidly shoot fireballs, while others like to wait for you to make a move and then counter it with a normal move. You want to try to jump in on Sim because the walking piledriver is useless unless the Sim player really sucks. The easiest counter for Sim to stop your jump in is standing medium kick or hard kick. If you notice your opponent is doing that repetitively then just do a crouching fierce punch for a clean counter. If Sim is shooting fireballs nonstop, then observe the rhythm and then perform a banishing fist. If timed right it will cancel the fireball and give you enough time to piledrive Sim. Once your close it's Gief's world. Just do meaty attacks all day. Be careful not to do a meaty body splash that much. Sometimes Sim can do the low slide to counter it. Always do a meaty attack with jumping light kick. Do the light drop kick. You can do this the light kick into piledriver but it is better to always do light kick followed by two crouching jabs and then a piledriver. This way Sim cannot throw you even if he tries to sac throw you. The light kick is even better than the knee drop because Sim can't slide under it. If Sim is knocked down and you are too far away to perform a meaty attack try the superman punch because most times the Sim player will try to jump away. Anytime you can cross up Sim, do it. You are safe doing a crossover body splash to three crouching jabs to pildriver. Be careful if Sim has his super charged. It can be a nasty reversal attack. Make sure your piledriver is good so Sim cannot ever do the slide into throw. Whenever you are far away and want to lariat through fireballs always move back while you do it so Sim can't two hit combo you with a fireball and punch or kick. The first move of the match can make a big difference. Try jumping in at first; it will work sometimes. Try a crouching fierce other times when the match begins. That will counter the kick Dhalsim will use. I guess the only time a walking piledriver would be of any utility would be when the match starts. Sometimes Sim will do an upwards diagnal fireball making sure you can't jump in.
Just my two cents.
It's definitely a hard fight for Gief, but if you outthink you opponent you will have a solid chance of winning.

XBL Gamertag-Pilotpmpddy

[Kyokuji]

Got a double post there buddy.

The 'Gief/'Sim match-up is basically 'gief trying to get in once and then capitilizing as much on that as he can. A good 'sim player might not give you more than one opportunity, so be sure you take advantage of it.

It really is a frustrating match-up though. Lariat gets owned by standing MP/FP, jump-in's get owned by RH/FK, Banishing Fist is safer, but a 'sim player can easily poke (Or RH drill if you're really close) you while you're recovering from it and you're back to square one.

I don't think most 'sim players will start off the match with a RH or FK, because if the 'Gief player lariats, you're screwed. I always start with a flame, MP/FP, or I just back up. One thing to watch for though, is if you make can make the 'sim player jump, you can probably score a knockdown, because your lariat will probably stuff any air-attack he tries, and if he empty jumps, that gives you an opportunity to move in anyway.

I play 'Gief/'Sim as my mains so it's interesting knowing the match from both sides.
'Gief can win, but I'd say his chances are very low. Like 80/20 in favour of Dhalsim.
I end up perfecting most of the 'gief players I play on a regular basis.

As a 'sim player, I actually find Fei Long very annoying. His crouching FP ends up hitting me more times than I'd like, his HCF-UF kick makes fireball zoning somewhat difficult, and his jumping FK stuffs my back LP/FK which is very frustrating.

[Koop]

Right you are Koop, right you are! PM me sometime bro, I'm living in NOVA now.



Oh word!!! gotta hook up ...check pm's playboi..

[nohoho]

There's an ST tourney, hopefully, this saturday in chinatown NYC. Any cats on this thread who don't check the srk tourney section and live in the vicinity gogo http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105267

We got some adult diapers for the third strike players this time so "the pee puddle near the SF3 machine on tourney days is too gross" is no excuse.

[Nick T.]

Nohoho:

I'll be entering ST at CF this time around. Usually I just enter CvS2 and RF2, but i've taken a big interest in ST recently.

[Pained Auron]

thanks for the cammy info

[Saotome Kaneda]

We got some adult diapers for the third strike players this time so "the pee puddle near the SF3 machine on tourney days is too gross" is no excuse.
<3 CF

[Airthrow]

I need help with Cammy against Chun Li. That is one of the hardest matchups in the game for me, it seems like I have to count on lucky throws to get any damage in, because Chun Li can whore her super high jumps and smack me out of the air...only every now and then can I hit her with a j. mk.

Here's how matches with Chun Li go: She backs up, usually either walking or by jumping back with mk, then spams fireballs. If I jump in she will try to do that...hurrikane kick anti air and it either hits me or trades, and by this time I will have taken a bit of damage already unless I have landed a lucky dp+K if she jumped. But basically I will be down on life and Chun li will keep running away double jumping off the walls with high priority air moves that Cammy can't do anything about. Very, very frustrating.

Also is there any good anti-gief strats? Unless he lariats so I can punish him with cannon drill, it seems like I get lucky against him...I pretty much have to get into his best range to do any damage, I really just jump around a lot trying to get lucky in the air because I fear getting tick xx SPD'd.

thanks for the cammy info

Play me on XBL and my Cammy will rape yourses.

[Eishi]

Also is there any good anti-gief strats?

One effective strat is to keep him away with crouching mk to force him to jump, and when he does so just counter him with an LK dp.

[Khiempossible]

As I think was mentioned, Cammy sucks.

[Koop]

Play me on XBL and my Cammy will rape yourses.


Think I need to call my sister an go half an half on an XBL account...:wgrin:

[archetype]

Is Honda generally considered a relatively aggressive character? I try to stay in close and get a knock down some how and then work on ochio shit.

[~TeN~]

Can sum1 in detail tell me the timing for chun's charged anti-air move..... i just can't get it down

[Airthrow]

Think I need to call my sister an go half an half on an XBL account...:wgrin:

Yup, you do!! I would have to finally get a headset too...

[Khiempossible]

Is Honda generally considered a relatively aggressive character? I try to stay in close and get a knock down some how and then work on ochio shit.

Depends on match up. Against other charge characters it's usually more turtly. Against fireball characters it's rush down or auto loss. Against everyone else it's just how you play the game. A lot of my game is just punishing every non fireball move with headbutt.

[nohoho]

http://www.hameko.net/uploader/upload.php
hame_3989.lzh is Muteki(Guile) vs. Kurahashi(Guile)... I think this video is already floating around out there but that Muteki is so dreamy that it's worth another look.

[asianhitler]

With Fei:
Cr hk is a good poke. Good range plus it knocks down, setting up wake-up games.

Here's what I do on knockdown opponents:
-cr lk, mp, reks
-if they blocked cr lk, mp, you can go into your throw/flame kick mixups, or towards mk.
-meaty cr hp, cr rh. This usually works against anybody trying to wakeup with a throw or a reverse special. Plus it knocks down, resetting wakeup games.

[TSC]

NKI, a question. Who do you think is the better matchup/has the best chance of winning against O.Sagat... Dee-Jay, Bison [Dictator] or Vega [Claw]?... and why?

[Airthrow]

I am not NKI but I can tell you as a Vega player that Sagat is probably one of the easier matchups in the game for him. Sagat will try to play the only game he can and use his best tool which is tigering until you do something, then trying to punish you for jump ins.

With Vega I take advantage of every high tiger shot to slide w/D+RH to get out of tiger shot range, but not when the slide will put me in tiger uppercut range. What you want to do is get into a poking match with Sagat, because you'll always win. Also unless you are super far away, your jump ins can punish a tiger shot on reaction (use fierce most of the time unless you can get jump roundhouse>cr. roundhouse combo... you know it when you see it). I seem to have an easy time beating Sagat to any throws too.

Really, cr. strongs, far standing fierce so that the tip of your claw pokes at him, jumping fierce and slides to move forward on high tiger shots are really your most important tools.

I am not sure about how successful walldives are on Sagat in ST because I play mostly ST Vega on Hyper where his wall dives are neutered to hell, but I think they trade a lot or you get stuffed a good percentage of the time with jump attacks or Tiger uppercuts.

Really you should have an easier time with O. Sagat than a lot of characters (Blanka, Honda, Guile...)

[Nick T.]

O.Sagat vs. Sim:

Whats the deal with this matchup?

I get a knockdown, do low tigers for his wakeup, but I can only do low tigers like twice before he can drill over a low tiger.

If I do high tiger for mixup to keep him from drilling, I get hit with a limb.

Am I going to have to take a couple of risks in this match or can I keep a steady pace going somehow?

[Kyokuji]

Dhalsim's one of the few characters you can't just tiger shot to death :D

[Shirts]

Its all in the rhythm. Master getting them down in practice mode. You dont have to do them super fast...just do them in a smooth 123 rhythm and they will all connect. Practice until it becomes second nature



Cr. fierce is a great poke but it leaves you open. Low strong is good but it can be blocked high and low if I recall correctly. Fierce rekka punch from max distance is a great poke and it does chip damage. You can usually do one and stop and get away with it because you are still safe to block. Do 2 of them thats where it starts to get tricky. You wanna stay within the max range of Fei's fierce rekka punches....that is his best zone for offense. Anywhere outside of that and you are nothing more than a mini e honda(meaning you have all of his weaknesses for getting in to do damage). Use regular moves as pokes if you like, but my main poke are the rekka punches. Learn that first before moving onto the other trix.



Well, like I said before...PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. Its pretty much a yoga flame motion(HCF+Fwd flip)....its very similar to a tiger knee motion. There are so many ways to use this kick its kinda crazy. Its a great combo starter because you can connect standing fierce after the 3 hit...sometimes you can just connect 2 of the hits from the kick and still combo. It crosses up if you can time it right. It juggles. It has funny start up animation properties(invincibility) and has even crazier priorities in the air. You can try mastering 2 in 1'ing the kick off of feis regular close punches but its risky... Using Fei period is risky because hes a brawler fighter. Much like Gief, Honda and anyone without a projectile. There is nothing Fei has that is 100 percent like Ryu and Ken. You have to get a feel for your opponent and guage their confidence. If you see that they fall victim to meaty attacks then exploit it. If you get reversed left and right then you will have to back off and try another way. I focus all of my game around my opponents self confidence because I am betting that they will fuck up and pay dearly for one mistake vs me eating a reversal. Its a risk but the payoffs can be huge.





This is one of my favorite fights. A smart guile can almost ALWAYS keep fei away with booms and trading hits....and again this is where staying just outside his low fwd kicks range(aka max rekka punch range). If you are quick enough you can punish guile for missed low fwd kicks. Take it from me, you will eat alot of low kicks and alot of booms so be on your guard. Low fierce works great because it can counter guiles low attacks cleanly most of the time. Your best bet is to not let guile breathe and once you are inside use tick throws...bait him into missing his reversal flash kicks and punish him with big damage rekka combos.....just dont let him breath because once he pushes you back out its back to square one again and you have to get back in to do damage.

Many players love to watch and mimic other players strats. Take bites and leave the rest. Thats fine but just be sure to come up with your own mix of strats. You can learn someones strats off of a video but nothing is going to teach you more than taking your beatings and learning from your mistakes.

Man, you're a nerd.

[NKI]

I can be a lot nerdier than that.

[TheGrape1]

Its all in the rhythm. Master getting them down in practice mode. You dont have to do them super fast...just do them in a smooth 123 rhythm and they will all connect. Practice until it becomes second nature



Cr. fierce is a great poke but it leaves you open. Low strong is good but it can be blocked high and low if I recall correctly. Fierce rekka punch from max distance is a great poke and it does chip damage. You can usually do one and stop and get away with it because you are still safe to block. Do 2 of them thats where it starts to get tricky. You wanna stay within the max range of Fei's fierce rekka punches....that is his best zone for offense. Anywhere outside of that and you are nothing more than a mini e honda(meaning you have all of his weaknesses for getting in to do damage). Use regular moves as pokes if you like, but my main poke are the rekka punches. Learn that first before moving onto the other trix.



Well, like I said before...PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. Its pretty much a yoga flame motion(HCF+Fwd flip)....its very similar to a tiger knee motion. There are so many ways to use this kick its kinda crazy. Its a great combo starter because you can connect standing fierce after the 3 hit...sometimes you can just connect 2 of the hits from the kick and still combo. It crosses up if you can time it right. It juggles. It has funny start up animation properties(invincibility) and has even crazier priorities in the air. You can try mastering 2 in 1'ing the kick off of feis regular close punches but its risky... Using Fei period is risky because hes a brawler fighter. Much like Gief, Honda and anyone without a projectile. There is nothing Fei has that is 100 percent like Ryu and Ken. You have to get a feel for your opponent and guage their confidence. If you see that they fall victim to meaty attacks then exploit it. If you get reversed left and right then you will have to back off and try another way. I focus all of my game around my opponents self confidence because I am betting that they will fuck up and pay dearly for one mistake vs me eating a reversal. Its a risk but the payoffs can be huge.





This is one of my favorite fights. A smart guile can almost ALWAYS keep fei away with booms and trading hits....and again this is where staying just outside his low fwd kicks range(aka max rekka punch range). If you are quick enough you can punish guile for missed low fwd kicks. Take it from me, you will eat alot of low kicks and alot of booms so be on your guard. Low fierce works great because it can counter guiles low attacks cleanly most of the time. Your best bet is to not let guile breathe and once you are inside use tick throws...bait him into missing his reversal flash kicks and punish him with big damage rekka combos.....just dont let him breath because once he pushes you back out its back to square one again and you have to get back in to do damage.

Many players love to watch and mimic other players strats. Take bites and leave the rest. Thats fine but just be sure to come up with your own mix of strats. You can learn someones strats off of a video but nothing is going to teach you more than taking your beatings and learning from your mistakes.

It's easier to sweep Guile's low mk with cr.rh on reaction and then you're on top of him. If you never mess up I suppose Rekkas are smart but cr.RH is much easier to take advantage of and less likely to get you into trouble.

[NKI]

NKI, a question. Who do you think is the better matchup/has the best chance of winning against O.Sagat... Dee-Jay, Bison [Dictator] or Vega [Claw]?... and why?I would say it's Claw. He is just too fast, so he can get around Tigers more easily than anyone other than Sim.

O.Sagat vs. Sim:

Whats the deal with this matchup?It's actually a pretty bad match for O.Sagat. I don't even know what O.Sagat can do, to be honest...:confused:

[CLOVISx2]

Quick question regaring Sim': when my opp. jumps in close (possibly to crossover), what's the best move? Is headbutt a reliable toll in this situation? Or should I go with close/back lk/mk/hk? Or just a plain old jab (chop)?

I play against almost the entire cast with friends, so any generael info would be appreciated for any character.

TIA!!

[TSC]

snip

Thanks!


I would say it's Claw. He is just too fast, so he can get around Tigers more easily than anyone other than Sim.


Thanks! Another question... against Chun, whom do you think has the better chance and why? DJ, Vega [Claw] or Bison [Dictator]...

[Khiempossible]

Thanks!




Thanks! Another question... against Chun, whom do you think has the better chance and why? DJ, Vega [Claw] or Bison [Dictator]...

DJ>Dic>Claw

I believe NKI believes Chun owns Claw for free. I play DJ, and I never have a probem with Chun.

[jms]

Thanks! Another question... against Chun, whom do you think has the better chance and why? DJ, Vega [Claw] or Bison [Dictator]...

This is a good question.

DJ>Dic>Claw

I believe NKI believes Chun owns Claw for free. I play DJ, and I never have a probem with Chun.

Deejay is not great against Chun--favorable matchup for her. The sad fact is that the only thing Deejay has going for him against Chun is landing a combo off a mixup. Otherwise, you simply have to outplay the Chun. Chun should play conservatively, limiting Deejay's opportunities to jump in or crossup, until she has meter--and this is quite easy for her to do. Her ground game is stronger than Deejay's, and that's not even considering her super.

I don't know the Chun vs. Claw match personally, but I'd put my money on Chun. Dictator vs. Chun is a great match. I feel it's very close to even. If I had to play one of the three, I'd play Dictator vs. Chun.

[Airthrow]

I don't know the Chun vs. Claw match personally, but I'd put my money on Chun. Dictator vs. Chun is a great match. I feel it's very close to even. If I had to play one of the three, I'd play Dictator vs. Chun.

Chun is one of the harder matches for claw because she completely dominates him in the air, which is the realm that most vega players are used to having the advantage. Also she can even out poke him which is rare. Your standing roundhouse for some reason which is usually an allpurpose anti-air gets stuffed frequently by her j. roundhouse and I believe even j. mk.

Also what happens is you get stuck trying to charge his flip kick for anti-air because it's the only thing that can beat her jump ins reliably, and then you get stuck in a poke/throw game with two high-speed walking characters, and Chun seems to usually win that one. Also you don't have a jump in that can reliably defeat lightning kicks, so if you try to go for a crossup or just jumping over her you will get thrown the majority of the time.

She easily defeats walldives with jumping forward too.

I consider Vega one of my most solid characters (I am very VERY mediocre as a player though) and I have problems with even semi-decently played chuns, it's a huge uphill battle because Vega doesn't have any advantages to take advantage of against chun, you just have to flat out be a better (and harder working) player than your opponent to win this matchup.

But note that I am not a high level player or anything, so NKI or any of the people better than me feel free to correct me. :karate:

[matttai]

hi, i am a gief player and i am having some pretty big difficulty against Dj.
its mostly a distant boom game which i then lariat through and he then trys to slide me . i then try to spd but they whiff as hes recovered by then and is back to his boom game.
i cant do any jump ins as i seem to be beaten cleanly by his air spin kick no matter what move i use...

[Tantin]

hi, i am a gief player and i am having some pretty big difficulty against Dj.
its mostly a distant boom game which i then lariat through and he then trys to slide me . i then try to spd but they whiff as hes recovered by then and is back to his boom game.
i cant do any jump ins as i seem to be beaten cleanly by his air spin kick no matter what move i use...

...Well, if you're getting in with the lariet, and Deejay's slide misses, why not just bait the slide and do a c.RH, or green hand to SPD?

[N-Trade]

hi, i am a gief player and i am having some pretty big difficulty against Dj.
its mostly a distant boom game which i then lariat through and he then trys to slide me . i then try to spd but they whiff as hes recovered by then and is back to his boom game.
i cant do any jump ins as i seem to be beaten cleanly by his air spin kick no matter what move i use...

This is a pretty useless post as I'm not a gief player but, I think this match is in his favour as I've seen daigo pick gief as a counter to deejay a couple of times. Wasn't really payin attention but I don't remember him jumpin in much. Also, a lil trick, he used repeated cr.jabs as dj was wakin up. This seemed to stuff all of dj's wakeup reversal attempts (or at least beat out the spin-kick) and from there I think u can go into spd.

[CigarBoB]

Gief player to the rescue!

Gief V DJ

You will have 2 parts to this match.

Part 1.

DJ has you zoned outside of his slide range. He will continually throw maxouts and then aa you if you jump or sweep you when you try to advance with lariat. And he can even st.RH you while the lariat is recovering and as an antiair from max range. This can be very difficult to get through. What I will do is position my self just out side of his max slide range and kkk lariat his maxout. If you guess right you can then begin to smother him with j.shorts and splashes and don’t forget the d.lk in the air. It will stuff or trade with the slide. Once you get in get the sweep in or a MP throw. This will allow you to advance on him when he is down. And that leads to part 2. If you don’t get the sweep/throw you will be reset and back in part one all over again.

Part 2

When you get your knock down force DJ into the corner. DJ is then at a disadvantage you can cr.jab him on wake up and it will strop his rising dredkicks and normal dredkicks clean and set you up for a SPD. All Dj can do at this point is attempt a reversal throw or super if he as meter. But being that DJ builds meter rather slow I doubt he will have it at this time in the match. So now you are in a guessing game with DJ and Gief has the upper hand. If you predict right DJ will be dead in 2-3 rotations of this.

If gief does not get DJ cornered with a knockdown he is at a great disadvantage. I would say its 70/30 DJ. When Gief has DJ down in the corner it flips 70/30 Gief.

Have fun.

[NKI]

Quick question regaring Sim': when my opp. jumps in close (possibly to crossover), what's the best move?If they're going for a cross-up, the most vertical move he has is back+Strong. The chop (back+Jab) is all-around good, but it really depends on the move you're trying to beat. He doesn't have a Shoryuken-like move that will beat everything.

Thanks! Another question... against Chun, whom do you think has the better chance and why? DJ, Vega [Claw] or Bison [Dictator]...Claw, DeeJay, Dictator, in that order.

Claw for the same reasons he beats everyone else. He's fast, and wall dives are cheap. After a knock down, Chun has absolutely nothing she can do about wall dives. Upkicks lose cleanly, and Spinning Bird Kick leaves you open. He can simply jump over fireballs on reaction. I'd say 5/5 or maybe 6/4 Claw.

DeeJay can turtle just as well as Chun (or better), but he has problems with her rush down st.Strong, and if he loses his charge (after throwing a fireball), she can pretty much jump at him for free. Not a bad match for DeeJay, though. I'd say 5.5/4.5 Chun.

Dic actually doesn't do too well against Chun, I think. She has so many things that Dic just has no good answer for (st.Strong rush down, j.Forward, meaty D/F+RH, etc). The only thing he has against her is st.RH to trade with fireballs (damage is greatly in Dic's favor), and juicy cross-up slide (cr.RH) after she techs his throw. Yuu Vega is definitely better than me at ST (he has the best Dic in the world, no doubt), but I was able to beat him some matches just because it's tough for Dic. I'd say 6/4 or 6.5/3.5 Chun.

I believe NKI believes Chun owns Claw for free.:confused:...? I don't remember saying that, but if I did, then I was mistaken. I don't think Chun owns Claw. It's a pretty even match, because Chun can counter everything Claw has, but Claw can counter all of Chun's counters if he knows what's coming.

Perhaps you're referring to when I said Chun owns Claw on the ground? Her lightning legs beat pretty much everything he has on the ground, but that doesn't mean she wins the match for free.

[Khiempossible]

Turtle it up. Chun controls that match on the ground because lightning legs beat all of Claw's normals, and upkicks beat his jump-ins. He has to take it to the air, so it becomes a guessing game between wall dive, punch wall dive, and wall dive fake-out. Chun has an answer for all three, but you have to guess right. If he does real wall dive, just do jump back medium kick. (Or if he tries to do real wall dive off of your wall, just air throw him before he gets to the wall.) If he does punch wall dive or wall dive fake-out, just fireball him. Please note that my match against DSP at Evo2005 (battle for 5th place) is a perfect example of how to NOT play that match. If anyone (Spence?) got my matches against Tokido on tape, that is a much better example. Also, I think I have my matches with DSP during the 3rd (private) ST tourney on CigarBob's cabinet, and that's also a much better example of how to play that match. If that got recorded (which I think it did), I'll up it.

K I misquoted you. I just recalling hearing "beat all" and "answers for all three." My bad.

[matttai]

hi,
just wondering does anyone have any ideas for a gief vs dj matchup?
i'm a gief player and it gives me problems.
usually its a keepaway boom game, then attempted slide after lariat through boom. i've tried spd after his slide but it'll whiff cause hes just out of range.
jump ins are hard cause i am beaten cleanly with all the normals i try jumping in with with his spinning air kick :(

[Tantin]

hi,
just wondering does anyone have any ideas for a gief vs dj matchup?
i'm a gief player and it gives me problems.
usually its a keepaway boom game, then attempted slide after lariat through boom. i've tried spd after his slide but it'll whiff cause hes just out of range.
jump ins are hard cause i am beaten cleanly with all the normals i try jumping in with with his spinning air kick :(

...You just asked this! It was answered three times!

[matttai]

...You just asked this! It was answered three times!

LOL! Omg i am so sorry my bad i so missed it i thought it didnt post when i pressed through last night and the last post about chun vs vega looked the same hahaha

and thanks for that ciggybob and everyone else :)

[ANaqvi]

Gief tactics:
Gief's principle strategy is knocking an opponent down and than either performing multiple jabs into piledriver or other jump in ticks. A crossover from Gief will probably lead to at least a piledriver. I noticed some tricks that work really well and was wondering if anyone knew of any more. The first good one that works against most characters well is performing a light standing kick upon wake up. The opponent will be expecting a piledriver and will try to perform a reversal. Let him whiff the move and then piledrive him (medium punch not spinning piledriver). You now have a crossover ready. Oh, and this works well against DJ. When Ryu or Ken is knocked down let them whiff a dragon punch and then perform a banishing fist. I used to sweep them, then as I got better I would walk up piledrive them, but I think doing a banishing fist is the best bet. That way you can have a free crossover. Against Guile figure out the sonic boom pattern and then do a banishing fist. The guile player will probably feel safe throwing the sonic boom and go for a jumping roundhouse. After you negate the sonic boom, crouch and then perform a lariat. Another crossover is ready. In general, I noticed the banishing fist can be used as an anti-air which will lead to another crossover. If anyone knows of any other crossover setups or Gief tricks please let me know.
XBL Gamertag-Pilotpmpddy

[matttai]

"Let him whiff the move and then piledrive him (medium punch not spinning piledriver). You now have a crossover ready. "

Can you explain how that works? Doesnt usually after a piledriver they fly away for a bit. Usually takes me 2 banishing flats to get me within decent range again much less a crossover? (body splash?)

[nohoho]

Take another look at that bit that you quoted:
not spinning
BTW, using the green hand to punished whiffed DPs/flash kicks = classy. "Gief players best read that ANaqvi post carefully.

[jms]

I'm not a Gief player, but wanted to point out something. Medium punch throw is tech-able, yes? I'd stick with the hand in all cases where it'll get you a clean knockdown (unless they're already in the corner and crossup is not an issue).

Agreed--good post AN.

EDIT: For extra bonus I reveal Gief tactic against DeeJay. If you're playing a DeeJay that thinks he can slide you whenever you jump, give him the knees (d+short).

[omni]

This is how I play ghetto gief vs dj.

Stand (thats the important part) outside of his sweep/standing roundhouse range and mash on low jab since most DJ's like to do standing rh at that range. Don't be afraid to block or lariat through some sonic booms when needed. Wait for dj to slide and when he does it should whiff, allowing you to sweep that foo back and start harassing him. I personally like standing short, low rh mixups or standing short into spd or standing short, standing short (both are far shorts) into spd. I'm not a big fan of low jab into spd but thats just me being ghetto with gief.

If you get him in the corner, just do repeated splash over and over - even if he blocks it. I can't remember if standing strong trades with this but if it does...just tick into spd at some point and go back to harassing him with low jab/standing short.

If dj does super and he does it from far away, don't forget to counter the gap when you block the super - usually after 3rd hit. I just mash on lariat cause i'm ghetto but prolly pro gief players land spd...but thats why i'm not pro.

I like this matchup better than versus guile.

Derek

[ANaqvi]

pretty ghetto reply,
but you said some good shit

[ANaqvi]

Good point out regarding the medium punch throw. I should have stated that this is only effective against characters such as O Sagat, O Ryu, etc. I guess it can sometimes work against ST characters but most times people will tech throw.

[laugh]

I got another bit to add to the gief vs dj match.

Whenever you decide not to spd after the far s.lk tick, if the DJ goes for the flashkick, then go for the instant dizzy. He'll think twice about flashkicking after you bait him a couple times with it and take those rounds because of it. I recommend whiffing an spd right after you get him dizzy for meter building (or depending on the amount of meter you have, green hand would be better for position sakes)and finishing with a crossup splash combo that ends with a super.

[matttai]

thanks for all the reply guys tonnes of good stuff!
sorry about the mp throw mini piledrive thing i'm relatively new to this game still but keen to get stuck into it (well for the moment anyway :p)

[NKI]

Note that the instant dizzy (neutral jumping Fierce) only works in the Japanese version.

[nohoho]

Neutral jumping fierce doesn't have any special dizzy properties no matter where you go. Up plus strong or fierce ain't bad, though.

[NKI]

:confused:...? Maybe I'm not understanding your post, but neutral jumping Fierce (up+Fierce) is pretty much a guaranteed dizzy in the Jap version. Personally I have never seen that move connect without dizzying the opponent unless they just got out of already being dizzy.

[nohoho]

I don't think that you're using the word neutral correctly. Zangief chops people who don't use words correctly. (http://x11.putfile.com/1/1815531628.png)

[Shag]

You have to hold up on the stick while jumping straight up to get that fierce dizzying gut crunch. He had this attack in every version of SF2. I can't fully recall but I believe in HF its also a one hit dizzy.

There was discussion about it a while back, I'm sure it was in the old thread. Something about most characters have an 8 point dizzy factor and Zangief's jumping crunch does 6-7 points of stun. Can anyone confirm?

[Spirited_Away]

Zangief's Up+Fierce dizzies in SSF2X instantly but doesn't in the World/Asia/US versions.

Actually did anyone get to learn how the dizzy system in ST works, it seems different than any other game made by Capcom.

[Best Kind Boxer]

All I know is that certain moves have different amounts of 'dizzy power' or whatever. Like Gief's stomach crunch. Regardless of US/JPN, it still will dizzy more than pretty much any other move. It will also Dizzy in one hit in AE sometimes. There are other moves, like N.Sagat's high tiger shot. If you do a combo with low tiger, it might not dizzy. But most any 3 hit combo with a high tiger WILL dizzy.

But it's weird too, sometimes you have combos that dizzy, but othertimes they won't. Sometimes you can land two fierces with fei long, and score a dizzy. Other times you can fierce all day, land the 5 fierce wrekka, and nothing.

I've heard that there is a dizzy resistance, similar to say, Cvs2 or something where it's harder to dizzy the 2nd time around, and this can even carry over between rounds.. maybe? i dunno, no idea. But then there are other times when the guy is dizzy, you go for jump in, he recovers right before your jump in combo, and then is dizzied again for a fake redizzy. ??

Throw can dizzy too, but it seems ONLY if they are right at the dizzy limit. For example, you score a nice combo, that sometimes dizzies but this time it doesn't. A throw right after will usually dizzy. Which is a good idea, so that if you DO get a combo, go for the tick right away afterwards for the dizzy. They're afraid of the next hit so they might block haha.

But seriously, I have no idea. lol

[Nick T.]

Most random thing happened last weekend.

Claw vs. Boxer:

Claw does fierce rolling claw, Boxer gets dizzied instantly.

Anybody?
Since we're on the topic of instant dizzies.

This was ST arcade btw.

[Nick T.]

I've heard that there is a dizzy resistance, similar to say, Cvs2 or something where it's harder to dizzy the 2nd time around, and this can even carry over between rounds.. maybe? i dunno, no idea. But then there are other times when the guy is dizzy, you go for jump in, he recovers right before your jump in combo, and then is dizzied again for a fake redizzy. ??

Throw can dizzy too, b