Super Street Fighter II Turbo, in the house

[CigarBoB]

This one time i was playing ST on arcade and i hit O.CLAW with KKK and then I grabed him out of the air with Giefs 720. I know i saw it on a TZW video years ago.
BoB you are an idiot!

Rule #1 : Do not disagree with NKI

Rule #2 : Do not think about disagreeing with NKI

Thank you. That is all.

[lee.w]

NKI i need your experties,whats the best way of stopping an oncoming hurricane kick,when your using Sim , i know you can try the double heatbutt,or the upwards jab to stop it,but is there another easier way or do u have to have good timing with the butt or upwards jab,because ryu and ken are really starting to get on my tits:annoy:

[NKI]

CigarBoB - Hahaha...don't say that. I'm only human, so I can be wrong too.

lee.w - The main things I see Sim use to deal with Hurricane Kicks are Yoga Flame (if you totally see the Hurricane Kick coming), or close cr.Strong/cr.Fierce to hit him on his way down (if you didn't have time to Flame him), or stand up and block the last hit (or the last two hits), then throw him when he lands. I dunno if he has any limbs that will cleanly beat an incoming Hurricane Kick. I'm going to assume not, because I've never seen it, but I could be wrong...

[lee.w]

and my last request is vega(when he's comn for you in the air),all i can think off is vertical yoga flame,a well timed upwards jab or slide out the way, any other tricks:tup:

[CigarBoB]

CigarBoB - Hahaha...don't say that. I'm only human, so I can be wrong too.


Only Human? I think we all know that you are 3/4 God and 1/4 human. That would put you well above most mortals.

[margalis]

Never seen that before, but are you sure it hits four times, and not three? The fourth hit of Blanka's super will knock down.


Meh I don't know, maybe it was three. But it doesn't involve any wake-up shenanigans. They just have to be in the corner. You don't. You can be a full screen away and sometimes it will just not knock over.


It's only the Short version, if I remember correctly, and you can actually combo off of it, too. Like 3-hit parabolic ball, st.Strong (one hit of the headbutt) xx Fierce ball.


Pretty sure it's all three versions. The weird thing about the parabolic ball is that Blanka will keep going instead of bounce off but only if he is not on the way down. So it works best on tall guys like Sagat. If you first hit them on the way down you just get one hit and bounce off.

I always thought it would be possible to hit someone with the ball on the way up then juggle with a super but was too lazy to spend any time trying it. Plus it has such horrible priority it would be pretty useless anyway.

[Circular]

I don't have much to contribute, but I just wanted to express my respect for those who play this game seriously. The unbelievable amount of damage every attack inflicts in this game (the AE cpu regularly mashes Dhalsim's throw on me for something like 2/3 life) makes merely keeping the match going challenging, much less developing or learning. To those who've stuck it out and achieved--I salute you!

[Khiempossible]

That's funny, cause I've always hated 3s for it's ridiculously long lifebars and relatively trivial poking damage.

[NKI]

I was reading through the forums on T-Akiba's site (http://bbs.t-akiba.net/sf2/bbs.cgi), and I came across a 5-on-5 tourney that Gian is holding at Club Sega in Shinjuku.

I found this particular rule to be hilarious:
ゴウキ使用可、コマンド失敗時はチームの負け。（星取りの場合0-5となります。）
"Using Akuma is allowed, but if you mess up the code, your whole team loses 0-5."
:rofl:...don't mess up!

[Saotome Kaneda]

I was reading through the forums on T-Akiba's site (http://bbs.t-akiba.net/sf2/bbs.cgi), and I came across a 5-on-5 tourney that Gian is holding at Club Sega in Shinjuku.

I found this particular rule to be hilarious:
ゴウキ使用可、コマンド失敗時はチームの負け。（星取りの場合0-5となります。）
"Using Akuma is allowed, but if you mess up the code, your whole team loses 0-5."
:rofl:...don't mess up!
I remember them(or another group out here) using this rule before(or something damn close). lol

[Darkstalker]

Holy shit that's a scary rule. Especially considering that to this day I've never been able to successfully select Akuma...

[Khiempossible]

ST on DC doesn't require you do the character rotation stuff, you can just hold start and select with PPP and get akuma for free every time. That said, he's still broken.

[Shirts]

Wow, CigarBob giving out Dhalsim tips...=p

[r3ko]

lol, doesn't cigarbob give tips on every character. Seems like hes plays everyone.

[felineki]

Holy shit that's a scary rule. Especially considering that to this day I've never been able to successfully select Akuma...I'm usually able to on AE, but I can't recall if arcade ST is more strict with the command or not.

[margalis]

It's not hard to do in the arcade, but that rule is so stupid. If they want to ban Akuma just ban him.

[Maj]

I don't think they're expecting it to ever come into effect. I think its only true purpose is as a comedy offering to NKI.

[NKI]

I agree with Majestros. :rofl:

[felineki]

It would definitely be interesting to see some high-level match vids with Akuma... see how well a skilled player would be able to counteract his brokenness.

[NKI]

The funny thing is, it's always the scrubs who choose Akuma, and they usually LOSE...:confused: (I've never seen a top player use Akuma.)

By the way...I've been doing a lot of work on the Super Turbo wiki (http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo).

Please post any comments/suggestions/criticisms.

[CigarBoB]

NKI awesome job on the WIKI so far.

Im goign to work some thing up for N.Ken and maybe N.Fei as well. All though JSJ would be better at Fei.

[CapMaster]

NKI, that was great the stuff you wrote in. Thank you for taking the time to do that.

[felineki]

By the way...I've been doing a lot of work on the Super Turbo wiki (http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo).

Please post any comments/suggestions/criticisms.
Did notice one thing:

-Honda does well against non-fireball characters
-non-fireball characters do well against Honda
Is that supposed to be "fireball characters do well against Honda", or is it correct?

Great work on the ST wiki. :tup: Lots of awesome info there.

[NKI]

Whoops! Yes, that was a typo. It has been corrected.

Thanks. :tup:

[jaminbenjamin]

Nice job on the wiki.

[Graham]

I have alot of free time lately if you guys want some input from me for advice on st or strats, i know tons of em for most chars. Just let me know or pm me if i forget about this thread hehe.

EDIT: I just posted a balrog vs balrog wiki thing, give me some feedback plz thx =)
EDIT2: NKI I know you've been to japan, do you speak japanese and do you know if the japanese players have any strategy sites made for ST? would be great to get some quality strats written from them. I mean I can give you some top notch balrog strats, and possibly vega, and some dhalsim, but I wouldnt consider myself qualified to write strats for chars I don't beat top players with.

Graham

[Airthrow]

So if it's a wiki, can anyone contribute?

[r3ko]

be great if lots of top players could contribute to the wiki, but i don't think its gonna happen. People can't be bothered, too busy or just plain don't want to let the rest of the ocmmunity know some top tactics.

Like Graham said, people who don't play characters as thier main aren't really qualified to write advanced stuff about them. What will prob end up happening is NKI will write nearly the whole thing by himself, and while everything will be good for most characters, most people who have been playing the game for a reasonable amount of time will probably already know most of it, if not more about thier mains. That said we will probably get one hell of a good chun section on there eventually, which will undoubtfully spawn a a new generation of copy cat Chuns.

If you take last years evo results, seem to be an usual amount of chuns taking up the top spots, which will probably mean even more chuns to fight next year. No offense to chun players, but she seems to be one of the easier characters to pick up and play in ST. fast walk speeds, good throw, storeable super, plenty of skanks, and easy link combos.

I've never been to evo, but i would like to one day, looking at the top spots compared to this year, i was susprised to find out that alot of the og players where knocked out early. Seems like alot of people want to blame it on the ps1 version. I was reading over the differences to the arcade version in the wiki, and i just don't think those things alone would be the cause of og players going out early. I think they were just unlucky, no one plays their best all the time and it was merely coincidence that these players went out earlier than expected. Tough luck thats all. Sorry if some of guys don't want to accept, but thats what is was.

Finally, if someone has it avaliable, i'd like to see the pools and the knockouts for the ST at evo05 and if possible previous Evos aswell, just out of curisousity. Also what is the general trend of characters used in the tournament as a whole. I didn't see any shotos in the top spots, which is susprising, considering thier the most common characters. I can't imagine too many guiles running around while being an excellent character, just requires too much hard work to use well. I would of thought there would be lots of rogs, relatively easy character to use, that dominates other other characters, but i couldn't see any in the top spots. Do you get any oddball characters consistently make the top 32 evo, like blanka, cammy, t.hawk, fei. I wonder if there were many more chuns further down the list.

Thanks
r3ko

[tataki]

good job on the wiki so far!

[dogberry]

I saved up a lot of the ST info from old threads and such. If ppl want to use that for the ST wiki just let me know.

[NKI]

EDIT: I just posted a balrog vs balrog wiki thing, give me some feedback plz thx =)I don't have time to read it now, but I'll check it tomorrow.
EDIT2: NKI I know you've been to japan, do you speak japanese and do you know if the japanese players have any strategy sites made for ST?Yeah, I can speak/read/write a decent amount. There are tons of sites for ST (and SF in general), but really the main one (the SRK of Japan) is T-Akiba's site: http://games.t-akiba.net

That site is really more for technical reference though. Stuff like frame data, game engine properties, etc. There isn't really an in-depth strategy section, but a lot of the top players post in the forums there.

By the way Graham, I know you'll be at Evo, but do you plan on going to ECC or MWC? We gotta get plenty of games in! :tup:

r3ko - your post is quite long, so I'll reply to it tomorrow.

[stream3]

NKI - wondering if you ran across many boxer players in japan.

I've dled a lot of vids with tsuji, he seems to be pretty solid, usually teaming with yuu and some other heavyweight. Daigo although kuni says he isn't top tier in japan, his boxer is the most active and he seems to have perfected that lock down pattern attack (i.e. in evo when he locked down choi for a good ten seconds).

Watson of course is legendary but his vids aren't as readily available.

[NKI]

No offense to chun players, but she seems to be one of the easier characters to pick up and play in ST. fast walk speeds, good throw, storeable super, plenty of skanks, and easy link combos.Like most characters, she has some pretty easy points (like mashing st.Strong lock down), but she also has some very difficult points as well. Yes, she can store the super, but it's actually pretty hard to go through fireballs with it, especially slow ones like a Jab Sonic Boom. Also, she get wrecked by certain moves (like Fei's Chicken Wing) and certain characters (O.Sagat).

She's not the most technical character in the game, but you definitely need to know what you're doing.

Seems like alot of people want to blame it on the ps1 version. I was reading over the differences to the arcade version in the wiki, and i just don't think those things alone would be the cause of og players going out early.When you read the differences, yeah, it doesn't look like a big deal, and to me, it really isn't a big deal. I can play on the PS1 version, or the Saturn version, or the DC version, but I totally understand why it throws people off. The problem is that the game just isn't the same, and it doesn't have the same feel. You also need to remember that we're talking about people who have been playing the arcade version for over a decade. When you all of a sudden don't know the game as well as you used to, that can (and will) totally throw people off, which is why everyone hates console.

Finally, if someone has it avaliable, i'd like to see the pools and the knockouts for the ST at evo05 and if possible previous Evos aswell, just out of curisousity.Doesn't have the pools info, but Preppy posted the top 32 results here (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97243).

Do you get any oddball characters consistently make the top 32 evo, like blanka, cammy, t.hawk, fei. I wonder if there were many more chuns further down the list.In general, it's usually just Ryu/Boxer/Claw/Sim/O.Sagat. In SBO1 (I think...), the 2nd place team was something really wacky like T.Hawk/Blanka/Guile.

NKI - wondering if you ran across many boxer players in japan.Yeah, there was a fair amount. I'm pretty sure Tsuuji has the best Boxer in the world. Tamashima has a really sick Boxer, but he can be hit or miss. Usually he completely dominates, but sometimes he just gets shut down. Daigo's Boxer is good, but his Ryu is much better.

Graham - Good stuff, but I have a question. When you're talking about Boxer repeatedly tick throwing another Boxer, you say:Of course to get out of this use the headbutt if you need to, reversing tends not to work well.By "reversing", do you mean throw reversing? (Trying to throw him before he throws you?) Personally I find reversal throwing (before the meaty cr.Forward) to be a pretty reliable escape. Any particular reason why you don't like it?

[jaminbenjamin]

Graham - if you still call them Balrog and Vega, NKI has his doubts!

As to the reversing, when someone says 'reversal', I assume they are talking about a special move other than throw.

As for the weird evo results, I heard it might have something to do with joysticks, but you hear that every year...

[Graham]

Yeah, there was a fair amount. I'm pretty sure Tsuuji has the best Boxer in the world. [/QUOTe}

Bold claim.

[QUOTE=NKI]
Graham - Good stuff, but I have a question. When you're talking about Boxer repeatedly tick throwing another Boxer, you say:By "reversing", do you mean throw reversing? (Trying to throw him before he throws you?) Personally I find reversal throwing (before the meaty cr.Forward) to be a pretty reliable escape. Any particular reason why you don't like it?

Not every character has a quality throw like Chun, plus its not 100% reliable. If i time the low forward perfect youll take a combo that instant dizzies you then you're dead. Is one throw worth the risk of losing the entire round?

[NKI]

Bold claim.Yeah, I guess it is. There are plenty of reasons I'd nominate him for Best Boxer Ever, but hey, if you can show me a better Boxer, I'll retract that claim. :smile:

Not every character has a quality throw like ChunI was actually talking about Boxer vs. Boxer, but in that situation where Boxer is right up on you, any character (even Claw and Sagat) can reversal throw for free, because the opponent is point blank, and throw range isn't a factor.

If i time the low forward perfect youll take a combo that instant dizzies you then you're dead. Is one throw worth the risk of losing the entire round?If the defender can't time reversals very well, then certainly not, but if he can get the reversal throw 99% of the time (which lots of top players can do), then yeah, it's worth going for.

What I wanted to suggest though would be to say something like "your options are reversal Buffalo Charge, or reversal throw, but be aware of the risks of trying to reverse". The way it is now, it sounds like the Buffalo Charge is inherently a better option than the throw, when actually they're both equally effective (unless you're using Safe Reversals, which most people don't). It just comes down to whether or not the defender can time reversals. If he can, either one of those would work fine, and they both run the same risk.

[Graham]

Yeah, I guess it is. There are plenty of reasons I'd nominate him for Best Boxer Ever, but hey, if you can show me a better Boxer, I'll retract that claim. :smile:

I was actually talking about Boxer vs. Boxer, but in that situation where Boxer is right up on you, any character (even Claw and Sagat) can reversal throw for free, because the opponent is point blank, and throw range isn't a factor.

If the defender can't time reversals very well, then certainly not, but if he can get the reversal throw 99% of the time (which lots of top players can do), then yeah, it's worth going for.

What I wanted to suggest though would be to say something like "your options are reversal Buffalo Charge, or reversal throw, but be aware of the risks of trying to reverse". The way it is now, it sounds like the Buffalo Charge is inherently a better option than the throw, when actually they're both equally effective (unless you're using Safe Reversals, which most people don't). It just comes down to whether or not the defender can time reversals. If he can, either one of those would work fine, and they both run the same risk.

So what you're claiming is a throw reversal by any character is 100% on balrog if done correct? do you believe the same vs bisons low forward? plus when i use this trick, i'm not always pressed up against the opponent, i generally attempt to stay out of throw range which isn't very far for most characters. the trick is to force them to block the forward by tossing it out early from a slight step back, then grabbing them from out of their range.

[NKI]

So what you're claiming is a throw reversal by any character is 100% on balrog if done correct?What I'm claiming is that anytime someone goes for a meaty, whether it's after a knockdown, or after being released from a throw, or whatever, if the opponent is within your throw range, you can throw him out of his meaty for free. Of course you must get the reversal, so it's not brain-dead easy to do, but it is guaranteed. I can break it down frame-by-frame with Kawaks if need be.

do you believe the same vs bisons low forward?Yeah, as long as he's within your throw range.

plus when i use this trick, i'm not always pressed up against the opponent, i generally attempt to stay out of throw range which isn't very far for most characters. the trick is to force them to block the forward by tossing it out early from a slight step back, then grabbing them from out of their range.Yeah, if you're doing that, then it's a lot harder to get out of, but if it's point blank, it can be reversed every time by any character.

[Eishi]

I can break it down frame-by-frame with Kawaks if need be.

Hmm I have the feeling I already read that somewhere :p

A little question : you said that some moves can't be throw-reversed sometimes (like chun li's close hp for example).

Can you elaborate on that ? Is there a defined list of moves that can't be throw-reversed ? When a move can't be throw-reversed, does it also mean that it can't be reversed by a special move ? Maybe there is something about that on Akiba's site :xeye:

[NKI]

It seemed to be totally random. It was just every once in a while instead of a reversal throw, I would get a reversal normal move (which you could hear) immediately cancelled into block.

I really would like to find out why that happens myself, and I actually posted on T.Akiba's forums to see if anyone knew what's up, but nobody knew. :sad:

I didn't test it with special moves, but my guess would be no, you would not get that effect with specials.

[CigarBoB]

For any of you going to EVO this year take a look at my thread in the EVO discussion. We will all choke on ST.

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3082050#post3082050

[Circular]

What's the best way to mash Dhalsim's MP throw? Is the game mostly looking for stick movement or button presses? I wiggle the stick and rattle my hand across the buttons, but can rarely get as much damage as I would with the FP throw.

[felineki]

Edit from NKI - This post has led to the confusion of many people, so I want to make it clear here: the game skips FRAMES, but not inputs. Skipping frames of animation does not affect your ability to do moves.

It seemed to be totally random. It was just every once in a while instead of a reversal throw, I would get a reversal normal move (which you could hear) immediately cancelled into block.

I really would like to find out why that happens myself, and I actually posted on T.Akiba's forums to see if anyone knew what's up, but nobody knew. :sad:
From the experimenting I've done in Kawaks, it would seem the odd thing is that Super Turbo's frame rate is exactly the same as Super's... it's just that the game "skips" every fourth frame or so to give a faster overall speed. But when dealing with very precise, frame-dependant actions like reversals, it could lead to problems like this, and some of the other seemingly random effects in ST. I suppose it all comes down to whether the game happened to skip the crucial frame your input needs to coincide with or not.

[NKI]

felineki - Interesting. How did you come to that conclusion? (The conclusion that it just skips every 4th frame or so.)

[felineki]

felineki - Interesting. How did you come to that conclusion? (The conclusion that it just skips every 4th frame or so.)
By watching various moves frame-by-frame and noting discrepencies between the amount of frames spent at various times. For example, take Ryu's HK Hurricane kick. This is a very easy one to observe the effect on, because once he starts spinning, you get a repeating loop, each segment of which (leg forward, leg away from camera, leg back, leg toward camera) should be 3 frames in length, as per T. Akiba's frame data page. Do this frame-by-frame in Kawaks while playing on SSF2 speed (which can be done via emulator cheats), and you won't notice any problems. Do it on ST speed, even the slowest (Turbo 1/0), and you'll notice that several of the segments last only 2 frames. The exact frame data (which segment is displayed for 2 frames, and which for 3) doesn't appear to be consistent, hence my assumption that the skipping is based on the system's internal clock simply dropping every 4th, or 5th (not exactly sure of the number, but it seems to be somewhere in that neighborhood) frame that it comes across and jumping to the next one.

[N-Trade]

Lord NKI: Thank you for your tremendous work on the wiki - par excellence as always. My only criticism comes from your juggle section which IMO, is a bit muddled:


The juggle system in ST is somewhat strange, but the general rule is that any juggle-able special move can juggle for up to 3 hits, and any juggle-able super can juggle for up to 5 hits. What moves can juggle? Again, there is no solid rule, but the general rule is that if the move didn't exist in SSF2, it can juggle. Exceptions to the rules include (but are not limited to)...
-Sagat's Tiger Uppercut (can juggle for 5 hits)
-Boxer's low rush (wasn't in SSF2, yet it can't juggle in ST)
-Ken's crazy kicks (weren't in SSF2, yet they can't juggle in ST)
-Zangief's Green Hand (wasn't in SSF2, yet it can't juggle in ST)

When a rule has so many exceptions it's not really a rule. A juggle-able move implies that the move didn't exist in SSF2, not vice versa as you've said. (Sagat's Fierce TU the exception). I'd recommend throwing out the rule part altogether as so few moves in ST juggle, might as well just list all the moves as you have done instead of attaching a rule to them.

My suggestion for the juggle section, which I'd be happy to implement, would be something like the following (I think this is all correct): By definition, a juggle-able move is one which can hit an airborn opponent more than once* eg Deejay's forward and RH.Jackknife. The short Jackknife only hits once and therefore is not juggle-able. (*Exception = Akuma's short air hurricane) All non-throw supers in ST can juggle.

To juggle with two different moves requires hitting the opponent with one juggle-able move followed by another eg Ryu jp.strong (2hits) -> super. (note: the initial move need not hit more than once, only have the potential to eg Ryu can do jp.strong (1 hit) followed by super). All normal and special moves juggle up to 2 hits (again, except. Fierce TU) and all supers can juggle for up to 4 hits.

[Khiempossible]

All normal and special moves juggle up to 2 hits (again, except. Fierce TU) and all supers can juggle for up to 4 hits.

except I think that's 3 and 5.

[felineki]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's max of 3 hits with non-supers, and max of 5 for with supers for most cases. Also, for Sagat... it's already been noted that the Tiger Uppercut can get up to 5 hits, but can't he tack on one more for a maximum of 6 if he uses his super?

[r3ko]

From the experimenting I've done in Kawaks, it would seem the odd thing is that Super Turbo's frame rate is exactly the same as Super's... it's just that the game "skips" every fourth frame or so to give a faster overall speed. But when dealing with very precise, frame-dependant actions like reversals, it could lead to problems like this, and some of the other seemingly random effects in ST. I suppose it all comes down to whether the game happened to skip the crucial frame your input needs to coincide with or not.


cool, now i got an excuse for when i lose, just blame it on that every 4th frame :tup:

[NKI]

By watching various moves frame-by-frame and noting discrepencies between the amount of frames spent at various times.Interesting...very interesting. I'm curious to know if this happens on Turbo 0. I'd be willing to bet it doesn't...

I'll check into this if I get some free time.

My only criticism comes from your juggle section which IMO, is a bit muddledI agree, that section was not very well done, so I re-edited it. See if it looks any better now...
http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo#Game_Mechanics

except I think that's 3 and 5.He was saying that you can JUGGLE for two/four hits respectively, which I guess technically is true, because the first hit is not a juggle...it's just hitting an airborn opponent. The combo total will be 3/5 hits respectively, but the number of hits that truly juggled would be 2/4 respectively.

As for Sagat's Tiger Uppercut, the 1-hit juggle super follow-up is only possible if you do the Tiger Uppercut to a grounded opponent (because the first hit is not a juggle, being that the opponent is on the ground). If you juggle for all five hits by knocking the opponent out of the air, then you can not follow up with a juggle super.

[Eishi]

There is one important thing that I never saw people talk about here, it's that aside from the common reversal situations, there are other other ones : for example, say you're doing a fireball with ryu. At the very end of the fireball animation (maybe the 3 last frames, not sure about that) the game will accept inputs even though your character's animation isn't finished (just like in the other reversal situations). That means that if you use proper timing, you can do several fireballs in a row without leaving any other animation between them. Logically, this is also true for normal moves, which is interesting because this property comes in handy when you try do link combos with tight timing.

I'm not 100% sure about that though, maybe we can verify this on SSF2. I'll make some tests when I have the time.

[eks]

mr nki please check your pms. i am requesting a favor. thank you sir

[Graham]

There is one important thing that I never saw people talk about here, it's that aside from the common reversal situations, there are other other ones : for example, say you're doing a fireball with ryu. At the very end of the fireball animation (maybe the 3 last frames, not sure about that) the game will accept inputs even though your character's animation isn't finished (just like in the other reversal situations). That means that if you use proper timing, you can do several fireballs in a row without leaving any other animation between them. Logically, this is also true for normal moves, which is interesting because this property comes in handy when you try do link combos with tight timing.

I'm not 100% sure about that though, maybe we can verify this on SSF2. I'll make some tests when I have the time.

I knew reversal throw wasn't 100%, if it was trust me NKI I would know. I do reversal timing 99% in my gameplay in whatever game i play even at my old age =P Watch me in cvs2 if you're interested, I always pop up with reversal whatever. But in ST i know better than to attempt that stuff.

[N-Trade]

I agree, that section was not very well done, so I re-edited it. See if it looks any better now...
http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo#Game_Mechanics


Nicholai-sama: I like it, much more succinct. I still think u should mention that normals/specials juggle for 2 and not 3 hits as it's technically correct eg, I know u like to tack on 2hits from ur tenshoukyaku after the super and not 3 ;p (same goes for deejay, bison etc)

Anywhos, what's ur opinion of frame data... can we transcribe some to the character profiles from the yoga book or are we not allowed to?

[r3ko]

i would really like a translation from the section after the frame data, if i'm correct that section looks like matchup tactics.

[SpinalBlood]

Xmania vids part 2? Cygarbob can u share it? Would be 10 for the st players, gratz

[CigarBoB]

Im going to be posting the rest of the vids as soon as I build a new PC. My current PC is so bad that it crashes every hour or two and it can barely run anything when im torrenting.

So you will have to wait for the rest of the vids.

Sorry.

[UltraDavid]

So is there anyone that T Hawk actually has a good match against? It seems like he has an uphill battle against everyone.

[stream3]

yeah even if its Toutanki playing, he spends eons trying to get in close. But once he gets his jump jab in, usually it's GGPO

[Best Kind Boxer]

So is there anyone that T Hawk actually has a good match against? It seems like he has an uphill battle against everyone.

Damn dude, do you pick the shit character in every game? :P

[UltraDavid]

Damn dude, do you pick the shit character in every game? :P
Hehe, nah. In ST my main guys are Zangief and Dhalsim, I've just been messing around with Blanka and Hawk lately.

[NKI]

There is one important thing that I never saw people talk about here, it's that aside from the common reversal situations, there are other other onesActually that was talked about way back in the AGSF2 days. There was an old saying, "If you blocked, you could have DP'ed". For example, someone jumps over your fireball and just BARELY doesn't have enough time to hit you before you block. If you blocked, you could have DP'ed.

mr nki please check your pms. i am requesting a favor. thank you sirDone. <3

I knew reversal throw wasn't 100%, if it was trust me NKI I would know. I do reversal timing 99% in my gameplay in whatever game i play even at my old age =P Watch me in cvs2 if you're interested, I always pop up with reversal whatever. But in ST i know better than to attempt that stuff.I have no doubt that your reversal skills are tops, but I can prove it to you that reversal throw is guaranteed aside from that really rare and strange phenomenon I discussed earlier. We are able to use emulators to analyze the game frame-by-frame now, and the results are undeniable.

I was actually really shocked to hear that American players (not just yourself, but others as well) think that reversal throw is not guaranteed. It's common knowledge in Japan that it is guaranteed, because it's the only reversal that Dic has (aside from super).

I think a major factor is that there is no "Reversal Attack" message for throws, and that makes people think it's not possible, but that's not the case. Reversal throws have existed since WW, even before reversal special moves were introduced. The problem with WW was that you could also be thrown on that transition frame (the reversal frame), essentially making reversal throw useless aside from when done as a wake up (because you can't be throw immediately after getting up).

I still think u should mention that normals/specials juggle for 2 and not 3 hits as it's technically correct eg, I know u like to tack on 2hits from ur tenshoukyaku after the super and not 3 ;p (same goes for deejay, bison etc)It has been changed.

Anywhos, what's ur opinion of frame data... can we transcribe some to the character profiles from the yoga book or are we not allowed to?If you just want frame data, I already translated all of it with help from WraithCo.
http://nki.combovideos.com/ST/

If you're looking for translations from the strategy section, I can't make any promises. It's quite time consuming, and there isn't really anything revolutionary in there. The game is quite old, and pretty much all the top strats are already known. But I will definitely post if I come across anything really wacky or unknown.

So is there anyone that T Hawk actually has a good match against? It seems like he has an uphill battle against everyone.I don't think he really has a "good" match, but there are a lot of characters that he can straight wreck if he just gets in one time (Chun, Sim, Dic, Claw, Boxer...basically anyone without a DP-type move). Take Boxer, for example. If he gets knocked down one time near the corner and he doesn't have meter, the round is over. He has no way to get out of [safe j.Jab, cr.Jab, safe 360]. The problem is that it's just really hard for Hawk to initially get in.

[felineki]

If you just want frame data, I already translated all of it with help from WraithCo.
http://nki.combovideos.com/ST/Your note on CE/HF and SSF2 Blanka's electricity kinda reminds me of the secret message you get when beating SNES Gradius 3 on the hardest difficulty. :rofl:

Awesome work, though. Very interesting data there.

[SpinalBlood]

In the msc2, is by any chance kuharashi the guile forward color (darkblue)?

[r3ko]

Also to those who don't know, you can now get my msc2 rip on combovideos.com, just like to thank Irika once again for sending me it, so i could share it with you guys.

[stream3]

In the msc2, is by any chance kuharashi the guile forward color (darkblue)?

yup its kurahashi. he also plays ryu in it (grey/blue color)

[felineki]

Also to those who don't know, you can now get my msc2 rip on combovideos.com, just like to thank Irika once again for sending me it, so i could share it with you guys.
Love the End of Evangelion music during the intro. :rofl: Thanks for the rip, watching it now.

[r3ko]

I added to the wiki, ST Blanka, so far i've done the basics and advanced sections. Hopefully a few blanka masters will see this and add to it.

[Crayfish]

The only 'extra' feature I would have loved to have seen in home versions of SF2 was a Color Edit ala CvS2. Would be cool to have your own individual customised character to play with. Red 'Devil' Blanka, Desert Cammo Guile etc... Have scanned in here a segment from the 'All Abt Capcom 1v1 Fighters' book showing the Color Edit mode, of the obscure FmTowns Japanese PC version of SSF2. Cant read the Japanese so dont know what it says abt it. Wish they'd have included this with other versions..:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/5540/fmtownsjappcssf2coloredit5ef.jpg

The whole section here incase there is some other interesting info on other versions:
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4263/ssf2homeversfmtownscoloredit8q.jpg

The FmTowns system is emu'd so I'll hopefully track it down sooner or later: http://www.jcec.co.uk/index.html

Crayfish.

[eruditemode]

can a kara'd normal be hit? For example, if I kara a roundhouse sweep into shoryu, in theory could the split second r.house animation be hit by something, or does the definition of kara necessarily mean that the move can neither be hit nor hit the opposition?

And to whoever up'd the Master's Cup on combovideos, god bless you. Standing whiffed r.house into spd is sickness on a sanwa stick.

And does anyone has the notation for cancelling e.honda's super from normals?

I'm trying to do cr. shrt, cr. shrt, super.

thanks

[tataki]

game41 has new hsf2 matches
http://game41.web.infoseek.co.jp/movieroom.htm

[r3ko]

And to whoever up'd the Master's Cup on combovideos, god bless you. Standing whiffed r.house into spd is sickness on a sanwa stick.

thanks


That was me, glad you enjoyed it, i know i did.

[Desk]

thanks for that link crayfish, looks really interesting. Does any one know what that X68000 version of SSF is (below the colour edit)? looks like an arcade but I'm not sure.

[Crayfish]

thanks for that link crayfish, looks really interesting. Does any one know what that X68000 version of SSF is (below the colour edit)? looks like an arcade but I'm not sure.
X68000 was an awsome Japanese PC from the ealy 90's. Incredibly powerful for its time with loads of truly arcade perfect ports, this would have been the system to have back in the day.

http://nfggames.com/games/x68k/
http://www.jcec.co.uk/x68_sys.htm

[Sabin]

crayfish, wow, i didnt know there was a x68000 version of ssf2, it looks quite different from the US SSF2 PC release...which at the time was not much more than a SNES port of SSF2 from what I remember - midi tracks and all. The main difference was that it had modem to modem play, but I've never tried it myself (has anyone on this board??) I bought it for $2 at my local EB way back cuz it came with a 6 button gamepad for PC lol

[Desk]

Whoa, I didn't know that. Anyone know where I could see some screens? Does it say that it's arcade perfect in that little write up? (the japanese scan)

[NKI]

can a kara'd normal be hit?Yes, because it changes your hit-box size instantly (which is why stuff like kara throws works).

And does anyone has the notation for cancelling e.honda's super from normals?

I'm trying to do cr. shrt, cr. shrt, super.It's easiest just to store the super, then do your combo. If you're trying to combo a punch, make sure that the punch you want to cancel is the move that fills up your super meter (so that when you hit that punch button, you don't prematurely do the super).

[TS]

Would there be a good reason to play O.Guile over N.Guile other than being too lazy to learn how to link the super?

[r3ko]

The only things o.guile has really got going for him is his standing RH (but i don't find it as effective as it is in older versions) and ability to charge standing shorts and backfist.

he also has a slighty fast walk speed, and some people say his booms are faster or have better recovery or something, but thats most likely not true. All in all, n.guile is a better choice, but i think o.guile does better in certian matchups, ie. sim and blanka. Aint sure, but his standing RH would prob stuff any jump gief tries to aswell.

[Gen-An]

Whoa, I didn't know that. Anyone know where I could see some screens? Does it say that it's arcade perfect in that little write up? (the japanese scan)

The book does indeed say that the X68000 version is arcade perfect. So far I haven't found any screenshots of it, but I have found shots of SFII' for the x68000 which looks perfect as well:
http://www.max.hi-ho.ne.jp/morymory/sf2/sf2.html

<EDIT> I managed to find some screenshots! </EDIT>
http://gyusyabu.ddo.jp/MP3/1994/SSF2.html

[r3ko]

Question. I was under the impression that the insanity starting over dvd with the yoga ST book was X-mania 5, but upon looking back through this thread i see that cigarbob released a x-mania 5 torrent, after several people said not to rip it. I could not connect to the torrent at the time, and could not see for myself if they are the same thing. I don't think they are, otherwise why would cigarbob rip them. I hope someone can clear this up for me.

Also if there different, could someone please reseed them or put them up on combovideos, for those of us who couldn't get them last time.

Thanks

[Desk]

thanks alot gen-an. The shots of champoin edition on GX do look very close to arcade. Also there's a mastersystem version listed their, was that an official release? I know the NES one (street fighter 3!, lol) was some cheap knock off.

I NEED to play that MSX2 version! lol. it looks too fun.

[Eishi]

The tournament on the Insanity DVD is called X-mania Gaiden, I think it was an invitation only tournament (since all the players who participated are renowned top players). X-mania V is a totally different thing : it's the fifth edition of japan's biggest ST tournament.

[NKI]

he also has a slighty fast walk speed, and some people say his booms are faster or have better recovery or something, but thats most likely not true.Walking speeds for ST characters are the exact same as their O.character counterparts.

As for the Sonic Booms, I can't say for sure because O.Guile is not the same as SSF2 Guile, but if you check the frame data (http://nki.combovideos.com/flame.html), SSF2 Guile and ST Guile have the exact same Sonic Booms.

The book does indeed say that the X68000 version is arcade perfect.Unless those pics have been altered, it is nowhere near arcade perfect. Just look at how off the character sizes are.

[Maj]

I think O.Guile's biggest advantage is that he doesn't have that stupid right hook standing fierce. O.Guile can do backfist while charging. It's good in fireball battles.

[Desk]

Hey NKI what happens next in your av? every time I look at it I get really annoyed because I don't know the answer. Is it like geifs, where he does the super without the other character?

[dogberry]

being able to do stand short while charging back helps O.Guile out a lot as well. Stand RH is not a bad antiair either.

[CigarBoB]

Right now I am uploading all the EVO 2k5 3v3 ST matches to CV.com. After that I will upload the Xmania5 part 1. When both of them are done I will rip the rest of XmaniaV.

And no XmaniaV is not the starting over DVD tourny. That is an invititaional they did. And a really good one at that.

EDIT!

CV hosting for the my EVO 2k5 ST 3v3. http://combovideos.com/page.php?id=1244

[felineki]

Hey NKI what happens next in your av? every time I look at it I get really annoyed because I don't know the answer. Is it like geifs, where he does the super without the other character?I asked about this earlier... if done right as he lands from a cross-up, T. Hawk can be within range to do the super and basically grab the opponent with his back. :rofl: Works easiest against Honda because of his large hitbox. Not anything useful, but amusing to see.

[r3ko]

Ok, thanks guys, that really cleared things up for me. And thanks for uploading to combovideos.

[JumpsuitJesse]

Walking speeds for ST characters are the exact same as their O.character counterparts.

As for the Sonic Booms, I can't say for sure because O.Guile is not the same as SSF2 Guile, but if you check the frame data (http://nki.combovideos.com/flame.html), SSF2 Guile and ST Guile have the exact same Sonic Booms.

Unless those pics have been altered, it is nowhere near arcade perfect. Just look at how off the character sizes are.

Well, then there has to be something different about O.Guile because he sure does feel "lighter" than N.Guile. Maybe I am just dumb:looney:

[NKI]

Hey NKI what happens next in your av? every time I look at it I get really annoyed because I don't know the answer. Is it like geifs, where he does the super without the other character?Actually Hawk will just grab him and do the super as normal. It's rather unexciting actually...

Well, then there has to be something different about O.Guile because he sure does feel "lighter" than N.Guile. Maybe I am just dumb:looney:<shrug> I never played Guile (either version), so I dunno why it would feel that way. All I know is that for as long as I can remember, everyone thought that O.characters were faster (all of them, not just Guile), but nobody had any evidence to back it up. Then the man himself T.Akiba tested it and said they're all the same.

[Gen-An]

T. Akiba's frame data just shows the relative uselessness of HF Guile, as he has longer recovery time after SB than all the other versions, and he has longer charge time on the Somersault. I used to think it was simply the speed of HF that made jump HP, stand HP xx Somersault hard, but after playing AE on the same speed setting it's easier for every other version but Turbo.

[r3ko]

I thought someone tested the walk speeds on here with kawaks, and found out that some of the characters are in fact faster walking as they made it to the other side of the screen quicker.

[NKI]

I thought someone tested the walk speeds on here with kawaks, and found out that some of the characters are in fact faster walking as they made it to the other side of the screen quicker.He was mistaken.

Here's (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2736453#post2736453) his original post, then scroll down about half way and read my reply and his reply on why it was not correct.

[Maj]

If you're trying to test whether one character walks faster than another, can't you just have them both walk forward against each other? The faster character will push the slower character back (gradually). It's easy to see visually. New and old versions of the same character doing this never move a pixel in either direction.

[stream3]

anyone know how this myth got perpetrated? Because even the top players believed this for whatever reason. And faster footspeed probably wouldn't make a whole lot of difference in the grand scheme of things.

[Graham]

Old guile as people said before is used for the standing short, standing roundhouse and charged backhand. The short is useful vs dhalsim and some other chars. The standing roundhouse was his best anti air on the ground.
Of course all these nice things can be negated by new guiles superior moves for playing foot games. But most of his foot game stuff requires him to be uncharged which means people arent gonna easily fall for it.

[stream3]

nohoho, can you fix the x-mania III links on your page?

many thanks

[Ken34]

in super street fighter 2 turbo, what are the buttons for his 1 combo that can dizzy you?

[Dasrik]

in super street fighter 2 turbo, what are the buttons for his 1 combo that can dizzy you?
It might help if you said which character you were asking about.

[Khiempossible]

if he's referring to guile he might be thinking his quadruple fierce in the corner.

chop, standing fierce, sonic boom, backfist. I'm pretty sure that instant dizzies.

er...

jumping fierce, close standing fierce, fierce sonic boom, forward fierce.

[Crayfish]

X68000 was an awsome Japanese PC from the ealy 90's. Incredibly powerful for its time with loads of truly arcade perfect ports, this would have been the system to have back in the day.

http://nfggames.com/games/x68k/
http://www.jcec.co.uk/x68_sys.htm
Another reason the x68000 is important to SF fans is that it was the Development machine that Capcom used to program all the CPS1 and CPS2 games!! More info here: http://eab.abime.net/printthread.php?t=16778&page=2&pp=40

"X68k were just more than conversion or ports, it's the machines capcom developpers used to create the games we love....."

Crayfish.

[r3ko]

if he's referring to guile he might be thinking his quadruple fierce in the corner.

chop, standing fierce, sonic boom, backfist. I'm pretty sure that instant dizzies.

er...

jumping fierce, close standing fierce, fierce sonic boom, forward fierce.

That doesn't dizzy all the time. But if you tack on a slow boom before the jumping fierce i think it would dizzy all the time.

So,
Opponent in corner, Jab Boom, walk forward slightly jumping fierce, close standing fierce, fierce sonic boom, backfist

But the timing and spacing for this is very hard, the only way you'll prob land this combo is if the opponent is already dizzied, and if they survive (prob not, considering they would of had to lose alot of energy in quick succesion to get dizzied in the first place) will no longer be dizzied.


Quick way to dizzy the opponent with guile is his backfist, a couple of those will normally dizzy. Also the combo jumping crossover short, crouching strong xx flash will not dizzy but if you follow up and land another crossover short and crouching strong this will dizzy the opponent.

I don't even know that much about guile, so maybe someone who uses him as thier main can enlighten us to an easier garunteed dizzy combo, aka TOD

[Rico!]

can anyone tell me a simply way of getting Fei Long's hcf, uf+k move out? I lose most of my matches because i can't get this thing out.

and what are the rules/follow ups for juggling after it?

[Ken34]

if he's referring to guile he might be thinking his quadruple fierce in the corner.

chop, standing fierce, sonic boom, backfist. I'm pretty sure that instant dizzies.

er...

jumping fierce, close standing fierce, fierce sonic boom, forward fierce.


yeah, I was talking about guile. Im a ken player, but recently ive been getting my ass handed to me by my brother-in-law who is a guile player, he fucks me up pretty bad. so I was thinking of giving him a dose of his own medicine, btw, is there any dizzy combos for ken?

[Khiempossible]

yeah, I was talking about guile. Im a ken player, but recently ive been getting my ass handed to me by my brother-in-law who is a guile player, he fucks me up pretty bad. so I was thinking of giving him a dose of his own medicine, btw, is there any dizzy combos for ken?

This game isn't about combos man. This game is principally about strategy. And Ken vs. Guile is one of the most interesting matches in the game. Since neither of you can effectively play the fireball trap/beat the fireball trap game, it leaves you some interesting options.

Depending on the calibre of your friends guile, you will always win the fireball war, eventually chipping him to death.

Guile's response to this is learning to cancel your fireballs with his own then hitting you with backfist (or backfist trading with fireballs if in in range or back fist comboing off sonic boom).

Ken's response to this is baiting fireballs and learning to short tatsumaki over them. This will hit the guile player before he recovers and give you the offense.

However, Guile's response to this is to space properly so that he can crouching fierce your hurricane kick.

Rarely do combos ever decide the match, since neither of you should ever be jumping or leaving yourserlf open for huge jump in corner combos.

[Ken34]

ok, also, I know in sf2ce that ken can shoryuken through a hadouken if timed right, is it the same in super turbo? cause i cant seem to pull it off in super turbo.

[insanelee]

blanka so fun.

bronson.

[ShinjiGohan]

ok, also, I know in sf2ce that ken can shoryuken through a hadouken if timed right, is it the same in super turbo? cause i cant seem to pull it off in super turbo.

In CE the shoryuken was invincible entirely on the way up. In ST, that invinciblity has been shortened. To about 15 frames, but thats just a educated guess (based on SF EX frame data). Though properly timed on a fast fireball, shouldn't be a problem, bit NKI or someone with the Yoga book thing can state for sure how long the invincibility window is on the shoryuken and give a better guess as to whether or not you can still use it to pass through fireballs.

[r3ko]

callmeanewb, i think your underestimating the importance of combos in this game. Yes, you should never rely on combos to win you a match, but combos are so damaging, i think its vital to learn at least a couple. If you dizzy someone, theres alot of free damage to be had by a combo. Also even if your combos are blocked, some make useful high/low block strings which can be hard for your opponent to block fully. And lets not forget how much easier it is to land a combo off a crossup.

[Alphastorm]

Ken only has one combo. c.short, c.short xx super.

[SpinalBlood]

Here is a st combo movie, is autofire used? There are 7-8jabs hit combo, that sounds stupid

http://big.freett.com/zerokoubou/movie07.zip

from http://page.freett.com/zerokoubou/movie.htm

PS: Thanks cygarbob for the vids

[NKI]

I don't have the Yoga Book Hyper right here in front of me now, but you definitely can DP through fireballs in ST.

can anyone tell me a simply way of getting Fei Long's hcf, uf+k move out? I lose most of my matches because i can't get this thing out.

and what are the rules/follow ups for juggling after it?There really is no trick that I know of for doing that move...you just gotta practice doing it...

This move is no exception to the juggle rules found in the Wiki. It can juggle for two hits after the opponent has been knocked out out of the air with it (or after being hit on the ground by the super).

Here is a st combo movie, is autofire used? There are 7-8jabs hit combo, that sounds stupidHere's a little secret: very, very few vids (possibly NO vids) from Japan are done purely by hand. Virtually everyone uses either auto-fire and/or programmable pads.

And ever since a few years ago, that's pretty much true for American vids, too.

[Jorant]

can anyone tell me a simply way of getting Fei Long's hcf, uf+k move out? I lose most of my matches because i can't get this thing out.

and what are the rules/follow ups for juggling after it?

I find that when I first learned it, I was messing it up because I wasn't rolling all the way through it. What I mean was I was getting sloppy, and not doing a full half circle then up forward. I would start back, then maybe come to a down/forward, forward, up/forward. That just doens't cut the mustard. I find when I'm very focused on doing the whole motion, it always comes out without fail. Roll that joystick and you'll be fine. That move is very important to fei, so get it down pat. If you can't, just stick with old fei that can combo anything into rekka kens. I would suggest ST version, however. What a powerhouse with an insane super.

[Crayfish]

INH, the makers of the fantastic 'Insanity Starting Over' X-mania Gaiden 05 DVD + Yoga Book Hyper guide book:
http://www.inhgroup.com/item/st2/

*have posted a report of X- Mania 6 here(can anyone read the Japanese?):
http://www.inhgroup.com/blog/index.php?itemid=34

Crayfish.

[Gen-An]

ok, also, I know in sf2ce that ken can shoryuken through a hadouken if timed right, is it the same in super turbo? cause i cant seem to pull it off in super turbo.

Only Ken's (and Ryu's) weak punch Shoryuken can go through projectiles in ST, and as has been mentioned the projectiles have to be either hard punch or medium punch speeds.

[Okame]

I guess this is only kind of related to Super Turbo, but in Honda's stage, the bathhouse, what the hell is up with the samurai in the background when you win? He starts flipping out and flashing this card on the screen. I've always wondered what it means... anyone know?

[Graham]

Depends on which character you're talking about, vs the fei long trap, tell me the char ill tell you how to get out.

[Lovely Kitsune]

I guess this is only kind of related to Super Turbo, but in Honda's stage, the bathhouse, what the hell is up with the samurai in the background when you win? He starts flipping out and flashing this card on the screen. I've always wondered what it means... anyone know?
It says 勝負あり (shoubu ari), which means something along the lines of the outcome of the match has been decided. It's the same line they use when the match ends in Samurai Showdown 1/2 (not sure about the others).

[Alphastorm]

Depends on which character you're talking about, vs the fei long trap, tell me the char ill tell you how to get out.

How does chunli get out of the feilong trap?

[tataki]

"My Kaillera Server is back IP: 217.112.91.140:27888"
for some reason i get shitty 300+ ms ping while people who leave near me only get 100 X_X

[insanelee]

graham how do i beat choi's o.sagat with blanka. ;p

bronson.

[Saotome Kaneda]

How does chunli get out of the feilong trap?
Fei fucks up. =p

Ask NKI on that one actually, he knows QUITE well how much Chun gets raped by it.

[NKI]

Fei fucks up. =p

Ask NKI on that one actually, he knows QUITE well how much Chun gets raped by it.Sadly, this is very true. :sad:

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2670073#post2670073

[Graham]

How does chunli get out of the feilong trap?

The break is after the fierce but before the flying kick hits you, you can do attacks or jump out im sure somehow. or even walk forward? test those, or even lightning kicks.

[NKI]

See the link I posted above for an in-depth look at Chun's options vs. Chicken Wing.

[lee.w]

all Choi does is non stop fireball zoning a lttle cheap i reckon

[ParryPerson.]

.......


lets get this right. Your mom = cheap, Choi = Awesome.

"reckon" this.

[Maj]

Sorry to bring up an old discussion, but i don't think "sac(rifice) throw" or "taking the hit" is a myth. It's more of a limited tactic that spawned a number of misconceptions from people thinking that it was a technical thing as opposed to ghetto og strategy thing. (The only reason i'm bringing this up is to defend American SF history because i am a patriot, haha.)

It's mostly about jump angles. Like Ken has a preferred jump angle against Gief where he can hit Gief out of Lariat attempts. So Gief responds by walking forward to get under Ken and trying to do Lariat. Worst case scenario, Ken does the air attack early in order to hit Gief while he's walking forward, but that allows Gief to recover before Ken lands and then Gief gets the free SPD.

Also, it's about staying in range to throw. For example, if someone jumps over Guile's Sonic Boom and is coming in at the right angle to beat Guile's low fierce, it puts Guile at a huge disadvantage. Since blocked air attacks cause more pushback than connected air attacks, reversal throwing would be out of the question for Guile if he were to block. Then the opponent would get to follow through with some ground attack canceled into a special move which Guile would also have to block. So Guile takes block damage and gets pushed back into the corner while his opponent builds up meter. As an alternative to this mess, Guile can take the (huge) risk of walking forward and taking the hit, then gambling that he'll get the reversal throw. Nobody is saying that the reversal throw is guaranteed. All they're saying is that taking the hit is the only way Guile would even have a shot at reversal throw in this scenario. And you can't do it all the time, but that's what OG players are good at, right? Reading opponents and making unexpected things work.

Then you have random shit like Apoc saying that it's easier to do reversal throw against meaty low forward when it hits than when it's blocked. That is obviously a personal preference for Apoc and has no business being put in the same category as "taking the hit" as defined earlier. But unfortunately, at first glance it sounds like kind of the same thing, so people start calling it the same thing and it tarnishes the validity of real "taking the hit" tactics.

[~TeN~]

What's chun's main anti air? i know from long distance i use cr.hk and from mid distance i use st.hp but there's this special range where none of the above 2 work and i can't seem to do anything.....


and claw's best dizzy combo...?

[r3ko]

OK you lazy bums, start adding stuff to the wiki, its pretty empty.

Can't believe i aint had no comments about my blanka guide up on there. I was looking forward to some constructive criticism. i seriously doubt it can't be improved in some way, not unless you all think its perfect :wgrin:

NKI, i'm really looking forward to when you get the chun section sorted.

I don't think people should be worried about what they post up on there, if its wrong someone will soon say. And people should definitely not be thinking, i don't want to people to learn the secret ways of so and so character. At the end of the day, we are all trying to get better, noobs and pros alike. And the only way we can really do that is share what we know. Watching jap videos is all good and well but theres alot of subtle things which happen in matches which you just cannot see in a vid unless you already know about them. So lets get scribbling.

[WB!]

What's chun's main anti air? i know from long distance i use cr.hk and from mid distance i use st.hp but there's this special range where none of the above 2 work and i can't seem to do anything.....

Chun has no "main" anti-air, just a lot of different things that work in different situations. It is a weakness in her game I suppose. Other things you can try to use as anti-airs in different situations are standing mk, standing fk, jump straight up hk(hitting hk as soon as you leave the ground), jump forward or back mk, lk upkicks(lk seems to work best as an anti-air to me) and her air throw. Hope one of these helps you with that range you're having trouble with.

Find it interesting that you list cr. hk and st. hp as anti-airs. cr. hk isn't as good as in CvS2...only thing I can every rememeber using it for in old school is against Guile's jump-in mk. I've never used st. hp as an anti-air...it really works? Maybe something I'd have to try out more.

[NKI]

Sorry to bring up an old discussion, but i don't think "sac(rifice) throw" or "taking the hit" is a myth.I agree that in certain situations taking the hit can be more beneficial, but I was talking about the myth that recovering from hit-stun (rather than block-stun) somehow gives you a better chance of getting the reversal throw, like against Boxer's [walk-under cr.Forward, throw] loop, or Dhalsim's [slide, noogie] loop. Taking the hit is quite possibly the worst thing you can do, but I've heard more than one American top player recommend it.

What's chun's main anti air?This is not a question that has an easy answer, like "Dragon Punch!"

She has to use different anti-airs against different opponents, sometimes even different anti-airs against the same opponent depending on what jumping attack they do.

I'll put it all in the Wiki as I get time, but for now I'll say that hands-down her best anti-air is her super. You can time it so that the opponent is grounded, eats all 6 hits, plus you get upkicks for about 65% damage total.

and claw's best dizzy combo...?j.RH, cr.Forward, cr.Strong
or
cr.Forward, cr.Forward, cr.Strong

I'm pretty sure I've seen j.RH, cr.Forward, cr.Forward, cr.Strong before, but that definitely wouldn't work on every character.

NKI, i'm really looking forward to when you get the chun section sorted.I'll get on it soon enough. I promise.

[r3ko]

What about Vega's combo

j.RH/j.Fierce, st.RH/st.Fierce, cr.strong

Wouldn't this have more chance of dizzing since there are more Heavy hits in it.

[tataki]

i think i need some1 to make a "sissy" version of ST where all the basic moves are easy to pull off like in alpha or SF3.
any tips on doing charge super with a ps2 pad? my fingers are bleeding..:sweat:

[Ken34]

i think i need some1 to make a "sissy" version of ST where all the basic moves are easy to pull off like in alpha or SF3.
any tips on doing charge super with a ps2 pad? my fingers are bleeding..:sweat:

hm, if your havign trouble, on 1p side, try using your index finger on forward and middle finger on back, and vise versa for 2p side.

[Khiempossible]

I don't know. I play a lot of HF Blanka, who's strats are sorta different compared to ST Blanka. I also have much less experience than a lot of you (I'm only 19 got into SF2 like last year). My comp is also much weaker than a lot of comp (I land a lot of jumpins that I shouldn't because my comp can't reliably dragon punch me out of them).

So as much as I'd love to contribute and as much as I love SF2, I can't because I don't have anything to contribute, other than less that useful strategies. Seriously I still learn new things everytime I post in this forum.

[tataki]

hm, if your havign trouble, on 1p side, try using your index finger on forward and middle finger on back, and vise versa for 2p side.
that's not really practical X_X

[Ken34]

that's not really practical X_X

lol, hey, i was jsut tryin to help ya out, lol. but seriously, try it out that way to get a feel for the D-pad and after that try doing it normally it should come around.

[WB!]

Trying to do charge supers on a D pad not only makes my fingers bleed, it makes me throw the controller against the wall in rage resulting in the financial loss of having to buy a new one. The physical, emotional and financial toll it takes on me made me just buy a stick...:looney:

I'll put it all in the Wiki as I get time,
Definitely looking forward to this.

Not 100% sure if I'm going yet or not, but I'd love the chance to take on your Chun at ECC. :wonder:

[r3ko]

Trying to do charge supers on a D pad not only makes my fingers bleed, it makes me throw the controller against the wall ....

lol, 2 questions
1. why are you using your fingers and not your thumb
2. Your d-pad made out of broken glass?

[~TeN~]

Chun has no "main" anti-air, just a lot of different things that work in different situations. It is a weakness in her game I suppose. Other things you can try to use as anti-airs in different situations are standing mk, standing fk, jump straight up hk(hitting hk as soon as you leave the ground), jump forward or back mk, lk upkicks(lk seems to work best as an anti-air to me) and her air throw. Hope one of these helps you with that range you're having trouble with.

Find it interesting that you list cr. hk and st. hp as anti-airs. cr. hk isn't as good as in CvS2...only thing I can every rememeber using it for in old school is against Guile's jump-in mk. I've never used st. hp as an anti-air...it really works? Maybe something I'd have to try out more.

i dont know for me cr.hk works great against any character.... u gotta know the distance and timing... i guess i just got used to it that way

[~TeN~]

This is not a question that has an easy answer, like "Dragon Punch!"

She has to use different anti-airs against different opponents, sometimes even different anti-airs against the same opponent depending on what jumping attack they do.

I'll put it all in the Wiki as I get time, but for now I'll say that hands-down her best anti-air is her super. You can time it so that the opponent is grounded, eats all 6 hits, plus you get upkicks for about 65% damage total.

I'll get on it soon enough. I promise.

well actually to be more specific Ken's Jump'n RH and Blanka jump'n RH and FP are kill'n me....

well since ur thee Chun-Li master i'll be wait'n 4 it ......

[WB!]

lol, 2 questions
1. why are you using your fingers and not your thumb
2. Your d-pad made out of broken glass?
1. Uhmmm...I play a very unorthodox style on a D-pad...yeah. :rolleyes:
2. No, I just throw it really really really hard. I have an extremely bad temper when moves don't work...:lol:

Actually, of course, I'm just joking but this is getting really off topic so I think we should go back to talking about Super Turbo.

Anybody got any advice on how to fight Guile with Boxer?

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

Since we are talking now of "how do I get out of..." here I will post something.

I have been in this scenario that I will show in a clip a lot of times but my main concern is that the ONLY solution here seems to be REVERSAL DP.....Its the only way to get out of this otherwise "unblockable" sweep?

http://files.filefront.com/dhalunblokablewmv/;5042692;;/fileinfo.html

Here you will see how Dhal uses the sweep after the second Nuggie on a falling Ken. The first was a example of how it should be blocked....the second is the raping....

Sorry for my bad english!:rofl:

[Best Kind Boxer]

^ looks like a crossup to me. Block the other way?

[bk2099]

yeah that's a really basic dhalsim strat, it's not very safe cause if you're ken all you have to do is block the other way and then throw him

[Eishi]

I have a litte question :

Yesterday I was playing with a friend who was sagat and I was ryu. Whenever he would crossup me after a knock down (with mk) I would try to block it the usual way but I would always get hit by it. Then I tried to block it like it wasn't a crossup and my character blocked. Has anybody else noticed that ? In which conditions and with which characters/moves does that happen ?

[NKI]

Not 100% sure if I'm going yet or not, but I'd love the chance to take on your Chun at ECC. :wonder:Hope to see you there!
well actually to be more specific Ken's Jump'n RH and Blanka jump'n RH and FP are kill'n me....Against Ken I would always use instant jump straight up RH. (You have to react pretty fast.) I wouldn't really bother with upkicks against shotos because if they do air hurricane kick, it will beat your upkicks cleanly.

Against Blanka you can use upkicks if he's close. If he's not close, use jump straight up Short. You can also trade hits by making him land on a fireball which will knock him down and give you the advantage, even though you don't win the damage trade.
I have been in this scenario that I will show in a clip a lot of times but my main concern is that the ONLY solution here seems to be REVERSAL DP.....Its the only way to get out of this otherwise "unblockable" sweep?You can't block it the other way...? (Holding down/towards.)
I would try to block it the usual way but I would always get hit by it. Then I tried to block it like it wasn't a crossup and my character blocked. Has anybody else noticed that ? In which conditions and with which characters/moves does that happen ?This actually happens with several moves depending on the opponent. Dictator's cross-up j.RH and j.Forward vs. Chun are almost never actually blocked as a cross-up. It has to be really, really deep, Guile's can choose which way the opponent must block his cross-up j.Short.

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

You can't block it the other way...? (Holding down/towards.)

Nope man! Tell someone that try to time it up just like in the vid. No matter what you do its unblockable unless you revesal DP it....It sounds weird but we have tried to block it/throw it/SPD it...nothing. Only reversal DP gets out of it.

[r3ko]

I've got no one to test it with, but if that really is an unblockable then i think we would have known about it along time ago.

Few questions though,
What port of the game is it, arcade/psone/dc?
What characters have you tried it on?

[Hanzo_Hasashi]

What port of the game is it, arcade/psone/dc?
What characters have you tried it on?

It was recorded from the DC ver just for showing In the arcade the time frame to reversal is harder. Please if anyone can confirm this! As you said it may be old but forgotten in the past. It works perfectky on Shotos, Vega (Claw) and Chun. Imposible on Sagat and Gief.

Thx for your time everybody.

[CapMaster]

Anyone have advice on how to beat Dhalsim with Ryu? It seems like if the Dhalsim knows what he's doing, this is VERY hard to win

[NKI]

Couple of things about the Wiki:

-Please make sure you sign your name after you make an entry! It's the icon second from the right.

-To whomever updated the Chun section of the Wiki, the effort is very much appreciated, but I really think the Wiki should be reserved for strategies and tactics. There are already plenty of move lists available on gamefaqs.com.

-Please avoid using Japanese names for moves; it only makes things more difficult. "fireball" is a lot easier to understand than "hadouken" or "kikouken".

Anyone have advice on how to beat Dhalsim with Ryu? It seems like if the Dhalsim knows what he's doing, this is VERY hard to win

Sim is a pretty hard match for Ryu, but it becomes a lot easier once Ryu gets meter. Check out some of Daigo's matches vs. any Sim: Cole, KKY, Gian, etc. Daigo won't even start fighting until he has built up a full level, then he goes in for the kill.

I'm by no means a Ryu player (can't even do a DP consistently), so unfortunately that's all the advice I have for now. :sad:

[cam347]

does anyone have that ST combo video with the Great Empress track? lol can't find it anywhere lol

In addition, for Bison vs Gief, what else can Bison do besides keep-away and poke with crouching and standing MK and do nothing risky at all lol it seems like nothing?! lol

[Shirts]

Anyone have advice on how to beat Dhalsim with Ryu? It seems like if the Dhalsim knows what he's doing, this is VERY hard to win

Honest answer from my past experiences:

It'll be tough to beat a very good 'Sim unless you're Choi, Watson, Valle or a Japanese player.

In all seriousness, build up the meter. Once you do that, you take away A LOT of 'Sim's options. Well, O.Sim's options anyway. N. Sim, as with most of his matches, is infinitely better than O.Sim.

Most Ryu players I've played have no chance of winning against me. You really need to turtle with the meter, then make some good anticipations and two-in-ones to the super fireball.

Choi started getting super hard to beat when he started turtling with the meter against me.

Same goes for Daigo. We played a good # of matches at Family Fun not that long ago. He literally would build that meter before he even attacks. I adjusted a bit by going straight for him when the round started (not an easy task, btw). From there, he loves to uppercut everything, so I baited him a few times and threw him. He had some trouble getting out of throw traps.

-Goodnight.

[r3ko]

shirts, i've been watching your o.sim in some old vids i have in my collection, and hes pretty sick. You inspired me to start to playing some o.sim too.

Was just wondering if you could give me a few pointers, i was wondering how you defend against air attacks that will hit your slide (such as blanka's HP, or Deejays HK), but are too close to hit with a long mk, and too quick or beat close mp.

[Sp00ky]

This thread delivers, btw, lots of great info, props to all of you.

[NKI]

does anyone have that ST combo video with the Great Empress track? lol can't find it anywhere lolThe name of that song does not sound familiar, but do you remember who made the vid, or any other details? I have lots of ST combo vids...

In addition, for Bison vs Gief, what else can Bison do besides keep-away and poke with crouching and standing MK and do nothing risky at all lol it seems like nothing?! lolIf you have reasonably fast reactions, you can do slide (cr.RH) to counter his lariats, then do a free head stomp as he's getting up.

Just like practically every other character, Dic definitely wants to stay away from Gief. Gief is spending the whole round trying to get in, and once he does, unless Dic has meter, Gief gets a free SPD. If Dic is cornered, the round is over.

Yeah, it's not an exciting match, but that's what you have to do to win.

[JedahsMinistry]

The name of that song does not sound familiar, but do you remember who made the vid, or any other details? I have lots of ST combo vids...

I think he means this video:
http://darktemplarz.com/combovids.php?vid=10

By FBMachine/NeoXDeath

[r3ko]

In addition, for Bison vs Gief, what else can Bison do besides keep-away and poke with crouching and standing MK and do nothing risky at all lol it seems like nothing?! lol

Also Bison's standing Fierce will beat Gief's jump ins.

[Shirts]

shirts, i've been watching your o.sim in some old vids i have in my collection, and hes pretty sick. You inspired me to start to playing some o.sim too.

Was just wondering if you could give me a few pointers, i was wondering how you defend against air attacks that will hit your slide (such as blanka's HP, or Deejays HK), but are too close to hit with a long mk, and too quick or beat close mp.

Hmm, let's see. The jump back and kick drill is somewhat effective at jump-ins from most characters you can't anti-air slide. From what I know, Deejay has no jump-in attack that can take out the roundhouse slide (or any slide for that matter.) Any jump-in with Deejay is an automatic trip guard. I think. I'm 90% sure of this.

Getting back to jump back drill technique: a lot of times, you'll trade hits, but that's ok. You're opponent will now start to hit you early in the air in attempt to hit you cleanly out of the drill. Now you can trip guard them no matter what they jump-in with.

Another one that may work: jump back drill, you trade with them, immediately drill again and lock them down, then throw--catches some peeps off guard.

This is risky, but taking the hit, then noogie works to setup some nasty throw traps. Hard to do against a lot of unfriendly collision characters such as Blanka--he'll almost always get the bite reversal.

Anyway, take the hit, then immediately noogie. After noogie, deep kick spear drill into noogie. You should be able to repeat this at least once.

I like old sim. He's severly limited against some characters, but he's very minimalistic. =)

[Ouroborus]

how the hell do u fight chun with old sim, especially one that turtles.

i've pretty much given up on old sim because of her.

[Shirts]

how the hell do u fight chun with old sim, especially one that turtles.

i've pretty much given up on old sim because of her.

Very carefully. Actually, once you get into a groove, Sim can throw Chun around a lot...and vice versa obviously. But, deep kick spear, noogie, standing strong, noogie is sometimes a very hard pattern for Chun to escape.

[Kujo]

NKI: Anyplace where I can find these Daigo vs. KKY, Gian matches that you speak of?

[jaminbenjamin]

Another tool that dictator has against gief is his jumping strong, which beats basically anything gief has in the air. So, dic uses standing forward/roundhouse on the ground and then jumping strong if gief tries to jump; he can control most of the match this way.

[NKI]

NKI: Anyplace where I can find these Daigo vs. KKY, Gian matches that you speak of?Daigo vs. Cole was on one of the Evo DVDs...2003, I think. Daigo vs. Gian was on The Starting Over DVD.

The other match I'm thinking of was from SBO1, and now that I think about it, it may not be KKY. Could be Yoshimura, or someone else. Japan has a lot of Sim players. When I get home from work I'll see if I still have it on my computer.

--EDIT--
I couldn't find the match I was looking for, but I did find these:
sirlinvsdaigo01.avi (http://66.90.101.52/~gfb/NKI/Evo2003.Daigo.matches/sirlinvsdaigo01.avi)
sirlinvsdaigo02.avi (http://66.90.101.52/~gfb/NKI/Evo2003.Daigo.matches/sirlinvsdaigo02.avi)
spencevsdaigo01.avi (http://66.90.101.52/~gfb/NKI/Evo2003.Daigo.matches/spencevsdaigo01.avi)
spencevsdaigo02.avi (http://66.90.101.52/~gfb/NKI/Evo2003.Daigo.matches/spencevsdaigo02.avi)

--EDIT #2--
Found the match I was looking for. It's Yoshimura, not KKY:
http://66.90.101.52/~gfb/NKI/SBO1_ST_final_3.mpg

I'll be taking those down in a week or two, so get 'em while they're hot!

[Naysayism 2.0]

Daigo vs. Cole was on one of the Evo DVDs...2003, I think. Daigo vs. Gian was on The Starting Over DVD.

The other match I'm thinking of was from SBO1, and now that I think about it, it may not be KKY. Could be Yoshimura, or someone else. Japan has a lot of Sim players. When I get home from work I'll see if I still have it on my computer.

--EDIT--
I couldn't find the matche I was looking for, but I did find these:
http://66.90.101.52/~gfb/NKI/Evo2003.Daigo.matches/

--EDIT #2--
Found the match I was looking for. It's Yoshimura, not KKY:
http://66.90.101.52/~gfb/NKI/SBO1_ST_final_3.mpg

I'll be taking those down in a week or two, so get 'em while they're hot!


did you just take them down, not working guy

[NKI]

D'oh! Apparently my account on ComboVideos.com doesn't work like it used to. I'll post again when I get it straightened out.

[bk2099]

damn, daigo had no respect for sirlin's sim, used him as a combo dummy

edit: well not really as a combo dummy, but he did rape him

[JedahsMinistry]

Try "open link in new window", that should work (I was able to get them and it sounds like the poster above me was able to as well).

[lee.w]

How do u get the video's goin

[NKI]

Links should all work now. Sorry about that. :sweat:

[Kujo]

Thanks NKI!

[WB!]

Ha, Daigo forward+mp at time over for the steal...that was theft at its finest.

Thanks for the vids.

[lee.w]

nooooo, still cant get the link right for the vids its saying your not authorised,so want to see them:sweat:

[NKI]

All the links work. I just tested them (again).

Did you go back to my original post to try the new links? If you simply tried the same old URL (http://66.90.101.52/~gfb/NKI/Evo2003.Daigo.matches/), that's not going to work.

And make sure you Right Clicking -> Save Target As...

If none of that works, try downloading them from another computer or with another browser. Sounds like the problem is most likely on your end.

[lee.w]

Got it working now,cheers for the help (SILLY ME) :tup:

[NKI]

http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo

Been doing a lot of work on the Wiki lately, especially for Chun.

Let me know if there's any particular character you'd like to see next for Chun's match ups.

[Iceman]

I'm sure I'm not alone in awiting Chun vs. Boxer.

[[KFC]rob]

i got a few st honda questions

His c.jab sometimes does like a good quarter of life sometimes, is that CH properties being involved? This is playing on AE, also getting out of tick command throws is mainly based on the other character with a wakeup sort of move, like if i were to do crossup mk, c.jab, command throw, certain versions of characters that can imput an invincible aerial move and get out right?

also the C.E. Ken i've noticed i think no matter what his fp dp always knocks people down is this true or am i just getting the good end of the stick

[Gen-An]

I think the only way CE Ken will whiff the second (knockdown) hit is if you do S. Fierce xx Fierce DP vs E. Honda.

[TarkanX]

NKI, you've done a great job with the ST Wiki, but I wanted to know why you removed all of the old characters off of the list, including Sagat?

[NKI]

I'm sure I'm not alone in awiting Chun vs. Boxer.OK, I'll do that next.
rob']His c.jab sometimes does like a good quarter of life sometimes, is that CH properties being involved?There are no counter-hits in ST. The sad truth is that damage is just random. :sad:

if i were to do crossup mk, c.jab, command throw, certain versions of characters that can imput an invincible aerial move and get out right?An invincible move or a throw would do. That set up you listed above will work on Dic because his throw range is smaller, but it won't work on Blanka, 'cause you're still within Blanka's throw range. In fact, Blanka gets a free throw on you in that situation, because he recovers before you.

NKI, you've done a great job with the ST Wiki, but I wanted to know why you removed all of the old characters off of the list, including Sagat?Whoops, I forgot to finish that section. Removing O.Sagat was a mistake, but I removed all the other old characters because I didn't think anyone would actually write anything for them.

But if anyone plans on kicking down starts for old characters, by all means go for it...

[Ouroborus]

what exactly is happening in your avatar?

[DarksydePhil]

Ok guys....

I couldn't sleep last night, so I a MAJOR overhaul to the SRK wiki concerning ST blanka. you can check it out here:

http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Blanka_%28ST%29#Vs._Zangief:

Well maybe not, thats a weird link to blanka vs gief but if you scroll up you'll see all the info I added. Hopefully this will help to inspire more top-notch Blanka gameplay.

[lee.w]

has anyone started dhalsim's strats yet on the wiki:wonder:

[r3ko]

DSP. thanks for adding to the blanka page, i was hoping someone would come along and do just that. I hope you found what was already written there by me not to retarded :looney:

After having a quick read through, i can't help but question a few of the things you've said or haven't mentioned in some of the matchups, but i'll post them later when i've read through it all properly.

[NKI]

what exactly is happening in your avatar?(I'm assuming you were talking to me...)
It's an interesting little glitch that I came across a while back. It's not actually Ken on screen...for some reason the first of Ryu's four shadows looks exactly like Ken.

I can't make any promises, but there may be an XSF vid in the future...maybe.

I couldn't sleep last night, so I a MAJOR overhaul to the SRK wiki concerning ST blanka.Holy Jesus that's a lot of info. But you forgot to sign your name!! Take credit for all the time you put into it.

[JumpsuitJesse]

With your permission NKI I'd like to contribute some stuff for Fei and for New Ken. Of course none of what I have to offer isn't as shnazzy as the JDM stuff you have seen. I atleast hope that others can utilize what I have as a springboard to better strats.

[tataki]

great job on the wiki but something feels missing...

let's say i wanna learn how to use chun li well vs ryu.
rather than just reading chun vs ryu strats i think i'll need to read ryu vs chun strats as well, to know what ryu will be trying to do to me, where is the sweet spot he will try standing in, what moves he will try using etc. etc.

[Rise Vader]

Daigo vs. Cole was on one of the Evo DVDs...2003, I think. Daigo vs. Gian was on The Starting Over DVD.

The other match I'm thinking of was from SBO1, and now that I think about it, it may not be KKY. Could be Yoshimura, or someone else. Japan has a lot of Sim players. When I get home from work I'll see if I still have it on my computer.

--EDIT--
I couldn't find the match I was looking for, but I did find these:
sirlinvsdaigo01.avi (http://66.90.101.52/~gfb/NKI/Evo2003.Daigo.matches/sirlinvsdaigo01.avi)
sirlinvsdaigo02.avi (http://66.90.101.52/~gfb/NKI/Evo2003.Daigo.matches/sirlinvsdaigo02.avi)
spencevsdaigo01.avi (http://66.90.101.52/~gfb/NKI/Evo2003.Daigo.matches/spencevsdaigo01.avi)
spencevsdaigo02.avi (http://66.90.101.52/~gfb/NKI/Evo2003.Daigo.matches/spencevsdaigo02.avi)

--EDIT #2--
Found the match I was looking for. It's Yoshimura, not KKY:
http://66.90.101.52/~gfb/NKI/SBO1_ST_final_3.mpg

I'll be taking those down in a week or two, so get 'em while they're hot!

Great stuff bro. this is the best thread on this forum.

[NKI]

With your permission NKI I'd like to contribute some stuff for Fei and for New Ken. Of course none of what I have to offer isn't as shnazzy as the JDM stuff you have seen. I atleast hope that others can utilize what I have as a springboard to better strats.Nobody needs my permission to update the Wiki. It's a community Wiki, so anyone can edit it as long as you're registered. :smile:

great job on the wiki but something feels missing...

let's say i wanna learn how to use chun li well vs ryu.
rather than just reading chun vs ryu strats i think i'll need to read ryu vs chun strats as well, to know what ryu will be trying to do to me, where is the sweet spot he will try standing in, what moves he will try using etc. etc.OK, I'll update when I get a chance.

[lee.w]

NKI,do u reckon u can do some strats for Sim in the wiki:lovin:

[NKI]

I think it would be a lot better if a real Sim player like Cole or Shirts did that, 'cause I don't really know how to play Sim very well. Sorry. :sad:

[tataki]

my friend told me capcom announced "Capcom Classics Collection Volume 2" at E3 (for xbox and ps2), and it will have *perfect* arcade ports in it, and of them is Super Turbo. i hope this is true...

[NKI]

Did some work on the Wiki:
http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo

The main page now contains "Randomness" and "Miscellany" sections.

Also updated Chun's page with her match against Boxer.

I really feel like I missed something, so please let me know if you notice anything lacking.

[felineki]

Sirlin, Senior Producer for the Capcom Classics Collections recently had this to say regarding Super Turbo on the upcoming Capcom Classics Collection Vol. 2:
ST on CCC2 is arcade emulated, not a port. Given the time and resources, there is no way to add a versus mode or training mode, but I'll do my best to at least get some infinite life mode in there so you can have some form of training mode.

I'll say it again: ST will be arcade emulated and will not have any "now loading" screens between matches as mentioned above.

--Sirlin
:rock:

[NKI]

I heart you David Sirlin.

[polarity]

What's the release date on that? Does this mean ST at Evo this year is now a possibility?

[Toodles]

If its emulated, any idea if there will be any focus on input latency, option to disable double or triple buffering, and/or slowdown?

[Red-Impact]

oh man I can't belive I stopped playing this, I was getting so good around zbattle (at least I liked to think I was getting better :rofl: )

I might make a comeback, once I get spare time+in the mood to play

[NKI]

Added Chun's match vs. Blanka to the Wiki.

Any requests for Chun's next match-up? If not, I'll just go in alphabetical order.

[Alphastorm]

There is a white boy Deejay user I need to beatdown at ecc. Please do him next.

[~TeN~]

Added Chun's match vs. Blanka to the Wiki.

Any requests for Chun's next match-up? If not, I'll just go in alphabetical order.

sweeeeet....

I luv u NKI



errr....... i aint gay ij ust got super excited

[Ouroborus]

who do u think is the best non fireball character vs honda?

I think its Vega due to his speed and being able to make honda lose his headbutt charge via wall dives. also it seems theoretically possible to runaway from honda once you landed the first hit.

Vega still loses this match no doubt but i think hes the best non fb character vs him.