Main Athena Moves

[j1nl0ng]

What are her main moves you would want to use with her, like anti-air moves, and some possible a-groove combos

[kcxj]

Close s.MP comes out in three frames (ie. it can be used to counter throw attempts), must be parried high, and gives you +9 frame advantage. A counter hit d.LK also lets you link a d.HP for free whenever you're successful with your setup. j.MK is a very useful cross-up attack. Land that and you can do your bread and butter combo of d.LK, d.LK xx dp+HP every time. You're close enough after one point blank d.LK to use your hcf+P command grab if they ever do block your cross-up or combo attempt. Mix up the command grab with counter hit d.LK, d.HP. An alternate bread and butter combo is also d.LK, s.LP xx dp+HP. It doesn't look like it, but s.LP hits all crouching opponents so d.LK, d.LK isn't always necessary. The level 1 super is safe to spam as a wake-up attack and will beat nearly everything in the game outside of counter CC's or supers. The best way to land the CC is after the command grab or after comboing into dp+HP (you super jump after your opponent and activate in the air). The qcb+P fireball is a little slow on startup (I can super you with Rolento on reaction from full screen away), but it travels very slowly (which is good) and takes up a lot of space. dp+MP is your all purpose anti-air attack. Whenever you're too far away to use that defensive attack, use far s.MP, s.MK, or jump back HK instead. j.HP is also useful and don't forget Athena has an air throw. d.HP also ducks down very low and randomly works as anti-air from time to time. I still prefer the other anti-air attacks reliabilty wise though. On the ground, d.HP has very long range, is 100% safe on the hit or block (you get at least +2), and cleanly goes under a Shoto's Hadouken. j.HK has stupidly high priority. If you're in a low jump groove, low jump j.HK is abusable.

One of my friends likes to press d.MK and it randomly beats my moves for no reason at times. I'm still not sure how to use that move myself, but I probably should, along with d.MP, the standing HP's, and the HK's. I don't use it, but close s.HK looks to be a good meaty attack (still prefer close s.MP though).

I don't remember much else except that I stopped using her after I got pissed off that people were spamming the RC torpedo attacks on me and I couldn't find a single obvious counter that would work (A and C Athena). She's one of those weird characters that needs N-groove to be competitive I bet.

[ragnafrak]

http://www.geocities.jp/yukimura_sei/c_sei_vs_a_jiji.wmv

just watched that last night, that a-athena is good, all sorts of random shit he does, and that command throw -> dp -> custom does mad damage ;]

also remember that you can sometimes use c.HP like a chun c.MP to anti-air sagat j.HK

[j1nl0ng]

ah ok thanks, once i get to my friends house or the arcade i'll try this stuff, since i'm too poor to affors ps2/xbox/or gc, and i'm trying to get my lazy ass friend to give me his old copy of cvs2 on the dc

[kcxj]

That CvS2 match was so gimmicky, my head exploded.

[Legendary Gokou]

Just some random notes -

cr short short far st fierce does pretty well in fishing for counter hits.


Use far st rh too. Goes over lows

[kcxj]

This Jiji guy's K-groove is way stronger than his A-groove if you ask me. Instead of relying on lame gimmicks like in that A-Athena video I didn't like, he uses solid execution, sharp intuition, and a beastly Geese to get the win. He misses a couple important Sagat DP's in the part versus K-Ryu (albeit the DP's are difficult to execute in the given situations), he's totally on spot with everything else and his mixup game is sick, so get the rest of the videos before they're gone.

[ragnafrak]

Just some random notes -

cr short short far st fierce does pretty well in fishing for counter hits.


Use far st rh too. Goes over lows
fishing for counterhits is useless if you can't land any damage afterwards. shit, at least do cr.lk, cr.lk, cr.hk for the possible knockdown.

[Danny]

her lv3 shinning bit super if done to anyone on the corner blocking takes away about 20-25 of their life, about one-third or more if blocking standing up.

[Hellion]

What was the recovery on the air qcb+lk? I remember it being mostly safe, but is it truly safe, or does it depend on how deep you hit?

[(THE) Geese]

Main move: c. fierce

[Hellion]

Main move: c. fierce

Her c.fierce is excellent, but there's more to Athena than walking back and forth and hitting c.fierce when you see an opening.

[(THE) Geese]

Her c.fierce is excellent, but there's more to Athena than walking back and forth and hitting c.fierce when you see an opening.

No, there isn't.

[j1nl0ng]

yeah, there's more to athena than poking the shizz outta them with c.f.

[Hellion]

kcxj: Is her tick to RC command grab a reliable 50/50?

Hell would you consider any of her tricks from d.LK RC Grab to d.LK teleport RC grab etc be good mixups at all?

Oh hows the frame advantage off blocked dps? It looks like her jab's somewhat safe... Or would it be smarter to just go for mixups?

[Totalit]

Does anyone else find her crystal shining bit hard to do at the end of her custom?

[Hellion]

Isn't it done just like in that previously posted vid? Just j.HK xx super? Not that hard, just throw in the motion during the roundhouse. Takes practice, but if you haven't got the time of day for that cancel it out of her dp's. It'll do less damage though, better off the other way.

[kcxj]

kcxj: Is her tick to RC command grab a reliable 50/50?

Hell would you consider any of her tricks from d.LK RC Grab to d.LK teleport RC grab etc be good mixups at all?

Oh hows the frame advantage off blocked dps? It looks like her jab's somewhat safe... Or would it be smarter to just go for mixups?
Oh, sorry for the late reply. I didn't notice the post.

The RC command grab has less range than Athena's normal grab. You have to be point blank and touching to tick off a d.LK. So it's a reliable 50/50... as long as you're starting out at point blank range.

d.LK, RC grab or d.LK, counter hit d.LK, d.HP. Maybe d.LK, close s.MP, d.HK/d.HP works also. I know d.LK, walk up d.LK, d.LK xx dp+HP works for sure. The thing is that the main counter to Athena trying d.LK, RC grab on you is to throw Athena. If the throw attempt came out, even if you successfully tricked them with your d.LK, you won't get the counter hit you need to easily link the d.HP a lot of the time. If they jump to avoid your grab instead...

... the command grab whiff recovery isn't quite Honda-like, but is still very quick regardless. If the opponent is cornered and tries to jump out of your d.LK, RC grab, you get a free dp+MP, CC very often.

-------

I don't know what the recovery frames on her DP are. They are definitely punishable when blocked on the ground though. You'll have to go to training mode yourself and record dummy Athena on you to see the moves you can use to punish Athena after blocking one.

Go ahead and use the jab DP to psychically catch limbs with. It has lower body invincibility and will counter moves like sweeps. The strong DP has upper body invincibility so use that exclusively to stop jump in attacks. The fierce DP has no invincibility at all, so only use it for combos.

-----

You trying to be like Rock with the teleport, RC grab mixups? It doesn't have invincible startup. Doing d.LK xx teleport, grab doesn't appear to be very fast either IMO. The only time I use that move is to mix up which side I attack from after knocking an opponent down.

My friend likes to use d.HK xx LK teleport. Random stuff like teleport, super for no reason too.

Buk has that nice setup after the command grab, roll, level 1 super, by doing meaty jab fireball, roundhouse teleport to the other side.

Don't get fancy when something simple will do the same thing is a general strategy I try my best to follow. So no, I don't do d.LK xx teleport/d.LK, RC grab mixup. I like d.LK, RC grab/d.LK, wait, d.LK, d.HP (or just d.HP) instead.

[Totalit]

Isn't it done just like in that previously posted vid? Just j.HK xx super? Not that hard, just throw in the motion during the roundhouse. Takes practice, but if you haven't got the time of day for that cancel it out of her dp's. It'll do less damage though, better off the other way.
Yeah, I saved that vid. Athena's one of my favorite characters. Bear with me though, I just started playing this game :)

[Hellion]

kcxj:

I used to play Athena a lot, for the most part traded her in for Nako, but I usually played her in either N or S. I found her to be best suited for, I dunno how else to explain it, keep away. A good zoning game where there'll always be a jab psycho ball on the screen. She's got a godly roll, an air throw, and a near godly poke (just no super cancels off it:sad: ) If I want to run away there's hopping off the wall and qcb+HK, or teleport...

Someone jumping in? d.HP, dash back d.HP, roll out so they cross over you and d.HP, or teleport out of their if you can't beat it due to angles and such. Hell SCB.

Footsies? d.HP (unless they somehow beat that, then just go to running away chipping)

RC electricities challenging me on wake up? Shining Crystal bit

*popped* jab psychoball, super jump, see what they do. They go to blocking the psychoball, it's guard crush or death by chipping or both because of her supers.

I'm sure you know how nasty she could be in S, provided she makes it to desperation mode. In my experience though it never was hard, she can run from K-groove easily enough or keep away well enough for the timer. That's just against K though. Forgot how I handled other grooves.

She seems to be a simple character in this regard. It beats down lots of stuff because of its quasi-Rolento-ness.

Well, anyway the question:
d.LK, walk counter hit d.LKx2 xx dp+HP
d.LK, walk counter hit d.LK, d.HP/d.HK
d.LK, RC command grab
"Psychic" jab dp's
strong dp's for solid anti-air (Pretty hefty against P-groove if you ask me too)

Are all these enough coupled with RC jab psychoballs (insurance against RC torpedo style attacks, not neccessarily to beat, but to deter) To make Athena a solid character?

It looks like d.LK mixups here are similar to much of the play style for many characters in CvS2 also. (Hell I use that alot too for Nako anyway, fast walker)

[kcxj]

A-Athena is the most useful Athena. Unfortunately, not being able to punish a Blanka ball (without running d.HP in N or K) makes me not want to use her. The jab psycho balls aren't safe at all once when Blanka is charging with a level 3 either. RC'd or not, Blanka will get you if he's looking for it. Same with Rolento and his level 3 tripwire. The trade off for being such a big slow projectile is that the startup time makes it easier to see coming.

Don't forget to use the crossup j.MK too. It's a deadly move that can lead to d.LK, s.LP xx dp+HP, super jump forward, CC.

The chipping the hcb, hcb+P super isn't exactly safe, so that's why I only stick with A-groove. There are gaps that you can be DP'd/rub supered during. You could probably counter an alpha counter by chipping them from a little farther than point blank range, but even if the opponent used an alpha counter on you, you just lost an entire level 3 while the opponent just used one block. I don't like that trade.

There are better characters for N-groove than Athena.

d.HP on the ground is nice against Bison (his d.MK), but she has no seriously damaging way to punish the scissors kicks, outside of d.HP, which isn't even easy in that instance. At least N-Ken can do d.MK xx qcb, qcb+K super when he has the level 3. N-Akuma has d.MK xx hcb, hcb+P super. N-Kyo doesn't need the supers and can easily punish with far s.MP xx qcf+P chains every time too. N-Raiden has d.LK xx one, two punches, Fire super. N-YURI can do far s.LK xx level 3 even.

I think those characters are low-mid tier at best (Kyo's the strongest one out of all the ones I mentioned), and even they compete better than N-Athena does.

So thanks for asking my opinion, but no I don't think Athena is a solid character in any groove. You can beat intermediate level players with her (and DESTROY beginners), but there's a reason you don't see her picked more often and that's because she'll never be taking out any good players anytime soon (or the players using top tier). As long as the opponent is experienced in getting around the d.HP gimmick (ex. he knows how to use Sagat s.LK), Athena vs anybody is an uphill battle and not fun if you ask me.

(although I'm sure Buk and any other player on this board that loves playing the crazy, random, oddball characters for no reason will probably disagree with me. :wonder: I'll stick with just getting her when I pick random select for fun though.)

[Hellion]

Well thanks for the input, I'm sure that this little discussion will at least give all the information people need to know if they're too lazy to thread through the other threads, looks like this one's summed everything up save matchups.

On the level 3 supers, maybe A-Athena would benefit being placed first in that regard? On the other hand you'd have to deal with K-Groove. It looks like it's more of a matchup dependant thing to me in that the important matchups vs A-Athena are all there is to be considered.

[kcxj]

50/50 mixups:

d.LK, walk up, close s.MP, d.HK
d.LK, walk up, throw

If the opponent blocks close s.MP, walk up and do it again. You get +9 off that move, so the walk up is free.

as the other guy gets up, timed RC grab
as the other guy gets up, d.LK, s.LP (hit confirm)xx dp+HP

-------

N-Athena:

What the heck? How is the air d+MK move (butt bounce) NOT an overhead? How horrible is that? You can cancel into the air qcb+K moves afterwards, but they're so easy to react to and DP it's lame. Anyway...

Free jump-in setups versus Sagat:

-Punch throw, immediate super jump forward, j.HK

The butt bouce also works, but what's the point? You even bounce all the way back to your side of the screen so you can't even take advantage of the frames you get when the opponent blocks. I've been practicing with getting j.HP to hit for free also, so I can hit with an air j.HP xx air qcf, qcf+K super. This is stupidly hard though, and so inconsistent that I've given up.

I want to say anti-air dp+MP, jump forward j.HK works also, but I can't get this to hit for free on anybody other than Ryu and his four frame Shoryuken.

Against Sagat, I think it's better to just run after the body and then roll to mix up which way you're going to end up on like N-Iori can do.

If you absolutely must do a free jump-in after landing an anti-air dp+MP against Sagat, do normal jump forward, j.MK instead. You can time it to hit super meaty, but the butt bounce move gets in the way of the execution (holding down-back so you'll block in case Sagat does wakeup DP), so I don't like it.

------

d.HP anti-airs Sagat's j.HK at every angle. Do it as late as possible like you would a Blanka d.HP or a Chun d.MP "tripguard" anti-air.

------

If you land the command grab in the corner, you have time to whiff a d.MP to build some meter before hitting with your deep, 7 hit dp+HP.

If you land the command grab midscreen, learn how to do running dp+HP for all the hits consistently.

The knockdown from the special move lets you mix up the guy as he gets up instead of just doing a jumping fierce xx qcb+K move after the command grab. If the opponent did tech roll, you have time to catch him with running attack also.

==========

(This is from an old post I deleted I but I'll repost it here)

3/24/04

I really like A-Athena... but it's too bad she sucks.

-She has one of those fantastic bunny hop style dashes that is not only very quick, but goes over low attacks as well. She's tied with Kim as having the best roll in the games as well. 102 pixels distance-wise, 29 frames long, and only 2(!) vulnerability frames at the end.

-Her command grab is only 29 frames when whiffed. Basically, the opponent can't do a thing about punishing this after they've jumped away, RC'd or not. It's like Morrigan's command grab or Akuma's Demon super. If the opponent jumps away, I get a free uppercut. The only weakness to this move, and one of the reasons Athena sucks, is that the range is only a girly 46 pixels...

-Athena walk up close s.MPs are really, really good. The thing comes out in THREE frames, hits mid on all characters, and gives a ridiculous +9. It's the same frame data as Cammy's fierces. Walk up s.MP, walk up s.MP, link sweep xx psycho ball is alright.

-Close s.HK gives +3 and lasts for 8 frames.

-Far s.HP has good range and gives +3 as well. It hits mid level as a bonus too. Use it to beat your opponent's low attacks.

-d.MP is a good alternative to fierce at times too, as it also gives +1 on the hit or block. Even better is that it's cancelable though. d.MP xx psycho ball or teleport.

-d.HK is a knockdown move that comes out in 6 frames and is cancelable. Best used after close s.MP.

Athena's rapid fire low shorts are awesome. Come out in 3, +6 on the block.
-low short x 2~3, super jump forward, LK or MK phoenix arrow right away, (opponent's guard breaks), close s.MP xx HP pyscho sword, super jump forward, activate CC...

qcb+LK gives +5 on the block. qcb+MK is also safe on the block yielding +1, in addition to doing a LOT of chip damage. Guard break in the corner, CC, 9000 damage

-c.LK, s.LP xx HP pyscho sword.
The most useful combo Athena has off a crouching short. s.LP hits mid on ALL characters.
-c.LK, RC grab
The mixup to above. Again, the short range on Athena's command grab only lets her grab after one crouching short.

Both lead to a juggling CC from ANYWHERE on the screen.

Corner pressure/"trap":
HP psycho ball has very short recovery at only -7, exactly the same as Chun-li's. d.MP is a 5 frame attack, again, exactly like Chun-li's far s.MP. Therefor...

-close s.MP xx HP psycho ball, d.MP xx HP psycho ball.
You can stick in a f,f, dash, RC command grab attempt at any time. If it grabs, you juggle, then CC. If the opponent jumps away, you do a free MP psycho sword as they fall. Teleporting into the corner with Athena is also very fast, like Akuma's teleport into corner.

(MAJOR EDIT: This doesn't work. Use close s.HP xx qcb+HP, d.HP as your corner blocked string/counter hit fishing attempt instead. You get a free CC if the guy tries to jump out of s.HP xx Psycho Ball without air blocking. :bgrin:)

Speaking of a corner juggle CC...
-command grab, juggle with HP psycho ball, CC, d.HP x 5, deep HP psycho sword x 3, jump up j.HK, crystal bit super (4 hits), qcb+P (hold for one more hit), release (last hit)
Around 9000 damage. Looks cool and is easy to do. I stole this combo from the Japanese CvS2 book.

[Hellion]

Awesome...:sweat:

[Hellion]

From Buk's "Tips of the Day Thread"
I actually did mean to post an update yesterday but SRK was down all day. -_- Anyway...

12/9/03:

I have a nagging feeling that I've posted this already, but with Athena:

Land the command grab, dash/roll, crystal super. Immediately cancel into the finger pointy thingie (which hits) and then release the fireball (which also hits). Then throw a regular jab fireball and immediately roundhouse teleport afterwards.

What happens from there is that your opponent has to block the fireball right when they get up. The guard stun is long enough so that by the time you finish teleporting behind your opponent you can block combo something. The timing's a little tight to block combo off of the fireball, but the hefty frame advantage is still enough to beat whatever your opponent tries to stick out. From here you can do a simple low short/command grab mix up.

This set up is good for several reasons:

- It's almost totally safe. Since you're teleporting in, wake up supers/uppercut/RCs will go right past you. Things like Ryu's level 3 hurricane kick super will probably hit you though.

- Since you hit with a super, the set up is non-tech rollable.

- Somebody who tries to slow-get up will actually mess themself up more. Not only will the fireball still connect, but they'll have to block it the other way since Athena will have crossed up the opponent by then. The frame advantage from the fireball will be way higher also since it hit a lot meatier.

In short, totally free attacking after landing a command grab. Do you need anything more?

EDIT: Oh yeah, forgot to mention if the fireball hits the opponent you can combo after it

[Legendary Gokou]

I just want to say ....

st mp, link cr rh into command grab is good. Gives you enough time to set up a cross up with her air qcb+k move. I'd prefer cancelling it into a command grab that fireball.

[Hellion]

I just want to say ....

st mp, link cr rh into command grab is good. Gives you enough time to set up a cross up with her air qcb+k move. I'd prefer cancelling it into a command grab that fireball.

didn't realize d.HK cancels. That's kinda cool.