The Official NBA 2005-06 Thread [Archive] - Page 6

Cletus Kasady

04-18-2006, 08:30 AM

Skiles has done more with less than any other coach. Their frontcourt is a joke, and he doesn't have anything that vaguely resembles a superstar (Normally I don't exactly refer to these things, but every other team has a player with a higher PER rating than Nocioni, who is 63rd...and the highest rated of the Bulls players). Phil has essentially given Kobe a green light to do whatever he wants and psychobabbled the other players on the team into hustling for him. Avery and Flip were handed teams that only needed a slight tweak. D'Antoni is the most highly regarded coach in recent history to not employ any sort of a Plan B. And the Spurs have enough talent that their nucleus isn't likely to win MVP or COTY any time soon.

He should kiss Flip's ass, because he was the reason they won a few games thanks to clutch shots. And now all of a sudden Bron wants to play Mr. Me Too and has gotten in the act? Eh...

I think if you had to take into account that Lebron would put their offense on his back for the duration of the game, it kind of makes sense for him to have some less-than-clutch endings. He's nowhere near the liability that guys like Shaq are, and Shaq won an MVP (note that similar to Shaq on the block, it's pretty much impossible to stop Lebron when he gets the ball at the top of the key and bulldozes his way in.)

donaldducktm

04-18-2006, 09:30 AM

Skiles has done more with less than any other coach. Their frontcourt is a joke, and he doesn't have anything that vaguely resembles a superstar (Normally I don't exactly refer to these things, but every other team has a player with a higher PER rating than Nocioni, who is 63rd...and the highest rated of the Bulls players). Phil has essentially given Kobe a green light to do whatever he wants and psychobabbled the other players on the team into hustling for him. Avery and Flip were handed teams that only needed a slight tweak. D'Antoni is the most highly regarded coach in recent history to not employ any sort of a Plan B. And the Spurs have enough talent that their nucleus isn't likely to win MVP or COTY any time soon.

very true... i guess i'm a little biased :wink: . as a laker fan, i think phil is 50% reason why the lakers are at right now. Kobe + Lakers + Rudy Tomjonavich = destruction. Kobe + Phil Jackson + Lakers = a lot more disciplined, innovative, and settled team. JUST MY OPINION.

shinobi00

04-18-2006, 10:08 AM

They might some how get a first round upset, but then they are going to lose in the second round if they didn't already lose in the first.

Lakers fans are the worst man. They barely made the playoffs, god, calm down.

I think black people just hate the fact that Steve Nash, a white guy from Canada ( which is like an added 3445234 percent of whiteness ) is the MVP in a league full of black people.

Your joking right? Dirk nowitzki(look at his skin) is my favorite player and I'm black. I just think winning back to back MVPS is unfair especially when you have so many contenders. Kobe bryant scored 81 points in a single game, and has broken almost every single lakers scoring record. He's the best defender in the league, and he's scoring 35 points a game(a feat not accomplished since MJ). The Lakers would FUCKING SUCK without him. Seriously, wtf the fuck more would you need to be MVP. I don't get it. I don't care what the lakers record is, the MVP is the best player. Who's been better than kobe? No one.

Legendary Gokou

04-18-2006, 11:00 AM

Kobe bryant .... best defender in the league

No. I'd give that to any of the following

T. Prince
B. Wallace
B. Bowen
R. Artest

ViciousSLASH

04-18-2006, 12:43 PM

Your joking right? Dirk nowitzki(look at his skin) is my favorite player and I'm black. I just think winning back to back MVPS is unfair especially when you have so many contenders. Kobe bryant scored 81 points in a single game, and has broken almost every single lakers scoring record. He's the best defender in the league, and he's scoring 35 points a game(a feat not accomplished since MJ). The Lakers would FUCKING SUCK without him. Seriously, wtf the fuck more would you need to be MVP. I don't get it. I don't care what the lakers record is, the MVP is the best player. Who's been better than kobe? No one.

The Suns would fucking suck without Nash.

Bryant scored 81 against the RAPTORS. OHHHHHH !!!! That record should be asterixed. So should Wilts against the shitty 5 foot tall knicks. He also had the new "Lets make it seem like scoring is up by increasing the foul shots by like 20 a game" hand check rule going for him.

He ain't the best defender either. He's the best SG. He's not even the best wing player anymore. That's Lebron.

The MVP isn't the BEST player, it's the most VALUABLE.

Until Kobe Bryant can win 60 games without an all star center named Shaq he's not Michael Jordan.

Geo is right, Kidd got robbed so bad when he led the nets to the finals that one year.

Cletus is right too. Skiles should win coach of the year, he is a clever mother fucker.

DanielLarusso

04-18-2006, 12:54 PM

The Suns would fucking suck without Nash.

Bryant scored 81 against the RAPTORS. OHHHHHH !!!! That record should be asterixed. So should Wilts against the shitty 5 foot tall knicks. He also had the new "Lets make it seem like scoring is up by increasing the foul shots by like 20 a game" hand check rule going for him.

He ain't the best defender either. He's the best SG. He's not even the best wing player anymore. That's Lebron.

The MVP isn't the BEST player, it's the most VALUABLE.

Until Kobe Bryant can win 60 games without an all star center named Shaq he's not Michael Jordan.

Geo is right, Kidd got robbed so bad when he led the nets to the finals that one year.

Cletus is right too. Skiles should win coach of the year, he is a clever mother fucker.

LOL @ You trying to downplay that man scoring 81 points. If it was so easy with this “lets make it seem like scoring is up” rule, why isn’t everybody doing it? Why has no one else even gotten 70, much less 80. And don’t give me that passing nonsense, cause it CERTAINLY isn’t for lack of trying.

He shot OVER 60 percent when he got 81 points. UNHEARD OF.

The Suns still have an All-Star on their team without Nash. One who was an All-Star BEFORE Nash got there. The Lakers have Kobe and Kobe. You say the Suns would suck without Nash, well guess what? When Nash left Dallas, HOW DID THAT TURN OUT?

POINT DENIED.

Until Steve Nash can get a team to the playoffs (Five to seven games over 500, in the toughest conference) that consists of three reject starters and one decent player - he’s not Kobe Bryant.

Hokuto Shingo

04-18-2006, 12:59 PM

.

Until Steve Nash can get a team to the playoffs (Five to seven games over 500, in the toughest conference) that consists of three reject starters and one decent player - he’s not Kobe Bryant.

Uhh how about being the third best record in the West without Amare. Steve Nash is MVP again.

shinobi00

04-18-2006, 01:01 PM

No. I'd give that to any of the following

T. Prince
B. Wallace
B. Bowen
R. Artest

It's debatable, but he is definetly in there with the elite defenders.

Uhh how about being the third best record in the West without Amare. Steve Nash is MVP again.

You don't need amare, when you have shawn marion, reliable 3 point shooting, and a second player creating for you(diaw). Nash didn't do this on his own. There is seriously no way steve nash should win back to back when there are other serious contenders out there.

donaldducktm

04-18-2006, 02:01 PM

Uhh how about being the third best record in the West without Amare. Steve Nash is MVP again.
??? how about Marion? Diaw? Kobe for MVP

ViciousSLASH

04-18-2006, 02:44 PM

LOL @ You trying to downplay that man scoring 81 points. If it was so easy with this “lets make it seem like scoring is up” rule, why isn’t everybody doing it? Why has no one else even gotten 70, much less 80. And don’t give me that passing nonsense, cause it CERTAINLY isn’t for lack of trying.

He shot OVER 60 percent when he got 81 points. UNHEARD OF.

The Suns still have an All-Star on their team without Nash. One who was an All-Star BEFORE Nash got there. The Lakers have Kobe and Kobe. You say the Suns would suck without Nash, well guess what? When Nash left Dallas, HOW DID THAT TURN OUT?

POINT DENIED.

Until Steve Nash can get a team to the playoffs (Five to seven games over 500, in the toughest conference) that consists of three reject starters and one decent player - he’s not Kobe Bryant.

The Mavericks were STACKED. One of the deepest rosters in the NBA, Cuban went out and got Terry ( an all star caliber point ) and plugged him in. The Lakers were stacked too, remember, and then Kobe acted like a bitch and made Shaq leave, DYNASTY KILLED.

Yeah he made 60 percent of his shots, against the RAPTORS. Asterix.

Nash makes EVERYONE around him better. EVERYONE. Kobe is a fucking black hole who needs the damn ball all the time.

Kobe's team isn't even going to win 50 games ! If you are going to pick your MVP based on a player that does everything for his team almost alone, you should be picking Lebron instead.

Lebron's the reason the cavs are in the playoffs, he makes everyone around him better, and he has a team a lot similar to Bryant. ( Z isn't some elite big man, he is getting old, and Hughes has been for most of the year ) The offense runs through him, unlike the offense BEING Bryant.

Bron's avering 4 less points but 1 more rebound and 2 more assists. His team also has 5 more wins.

Scoring 81 points doesn't make you an MVP, and doing everything for your team because everyone else sucks doesn't make you an MVP either. If that was true Iverson should've been the MVP for like 4 straight years now.

TGC

04-18-2006, 02:53 PM

Vicious wins the the award of who should get the mvp award.

It's all about making your players better.

Ok so steve nash left dallas, and they didn't get worse...why? because of dirk...he's still an all-star and he's a leader, making everyone around him better.

Then Nash joins, and turns the suns completely around, taking them to WCF, even though they lost, they had an awesome run.

Kobe... What has he done to make his players better? Yea i've seen him get a few assists here and there, but besides the few exceptions, he doesn't make his team better at all...And he really should considering he is an awesome shooter, meaning people probably would want to double team, which leaves one open guy...

It's like Carmelo anthony, opposing teams try to double team that guy, and he passes it out to the open shooter for a good look at the basket. kobe doesn't do this as often as he should IMO.

If it's anyone for MVP it's between Nash and Dirk or Lebron

...IMO

totaltoanage

04-18-2006, 02:58 PM

omg nash cannot get it again. seriously. he had his now let dirk or lebron get theirs.

TGC

04-18-2006, 03:13 PM

Yea you're right, i'm being too greedy lol...

The award i want the most to happen of course is Boris Diaw for Most Improved Player, or The Sixth Man for Eddie House, but that one seems a bit more improbable, but you never know.

Edit: Actually the improbable one is Shawn Marion getting Defender of the Year, cause that guy deserves something really , but is so overlooked. But even i think he won't get it because he's good as a defense, but not as some of the other contenders.

DanielLarusso

04-18-2006, 03:30 PM

The Mavericks were STACKED. One of the deepest rosters in the NBA, Cuban went out and got Terry ( an all star caliber point ) and plugged him in. The Lakers were stacked too, remember, and then Kobe acted like a bitch and made Shaq leave, DYNASTY KILLED.

Yeah he made 60 percent of his shots, against the RAPTORS. Asterix.

Nash makes EVERYONE around him better. EVERYONE. Kobe is a fucking black hole who needs the damn ball all the time.

Kobe's team isn't even going to win 50 games ! If you are going to pick your MVP based on a player that does everything for his team almost alone, you should be picking Lebron instead.

Lebron's the reason the cavs are in the playoffs, he makes everyone around him better, and he has a team a lot similar to Bryant. ( Z isn't some elite big man, he is getting old, and Hughes has been for most of the year ) The offense runs through him, unlike the offense BEING Bryant.

Bron's avering 4 less points but 1 more rebound and 2 more assists. His team also has 5 more wins.

Scoring 81 points doesn't make you an MVP, and doing everything for your team because everyone else sucks doesn't make you an MVP either. If that was true Iverson should've been the MVP for like 4 straight years now.

You’re hurting your own argument. If the Mavs were so “STACKED,” why could they never get out of the West in the playoffs with Nash?

Again, put Kobe on a “STACKED” team and see what happens. In fact, you don’t have to even IMAGINE it, just read: THREE RINGS. And the only thing that “STACKED” those Lakers teams were Shaq and Kobe.

So you had Nash on a “STACKED” team and what happened? He got himself traded! And the team that traded him GOT BETTER WHEN HE LEFT. You had Kobe on a STACKED team and what happened? Three rings.

What do you mean the Lakers “aren’t even gonna win 50 games?” Do you know how many teams have won 50 games? Five. That’s it. Don’t act like everybody and their mother is doing it. And the Suns only have nine more wins than the Lakers, it ain’t like the Suns are ALL THAT.

LeBron IS a candidate, a better one than Nash. But for all your “LeBron should win over Kobe if you want a player who does everything” talk I can just as easily say that CHAUNCY BILLIPS “should win over Nash if you want someone who ‘makes his teammates better.’”

The Pistons are 11 wins better than the Suns, have championship pedigree and are projected as a lock to get to the NBA Finals.

But you see I take into consideration the stable of players around the would-be MVP in question. Billups has a better supporting cast than Nash. But Nash has a better supporting cast than Kobe, including an All-Star big man.

To put it in historical perspective, the last man to average 35 points a game was Michael Jordan in the 1980s! The last person to score 80 points in a game was Wilt Chamberlain in the 1960s!

Haters can discredit this man’s achievements all they want, but they are historic. Nash isn’t doing SHIT that’s historic, hell, Nash isn’t doing anything that Jason Kidd hasn’t been doing for the past five years – and where’s Kidd’s MVP?

If Bill Simmons has anointed Kobe the MVP - http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060414 - it’s time to shit or get off the pot.

I’m The Kid.

jae hoon

04-18-2006, 03:42 PM

Kobe didnt make Shaq leave, what the Kobe haters dont want you to know is LA actually offered Shaq a 3 year extention comporable to the one he got in Miami. They were going to keep Shaq and trade Kobe, Shaq said no. He choose to leave, not the other way around.

ViciousSLASH

04-18-2006, 04:07 PM

I’m The Kid.

Shaq in his prime > everyone on that mavs team, easily. Those three rings are going to be the deciding factor in Kobe being better then Jordan or him being T-Mac with defense. If Kobe can win a ring without Shaq, then he may be the best player ever, but if he can't, then he's just a selfish mother fucker who is good but was in the right place at the right time.

You should know those three rings all belonged to the big daddy. Kobe just sat there and stewed because he wasn't the center of attention and then ruined a dynasty. Kobe doesn't deserve any of this OMG HE IS THE BEST PLAYER EVER, until he wins a ring without Shaq. I don't see that happening this year, or any year while Tim Duncan is still playing.

You want to make a big deal out of last year ? Okay, lets look at what happened...

Shaq leaves, team misses the playoffs. Kobe isn't looking all that amazing all by himself.

Nash goes to a team that missed the playoffs and transforms them into the toast of the west. The Mavs continue to win because they have one of the deepest rosters in the league. They lose to the eventual NBA champions in the WCFs.

Billups doesn't make his teamates better like Nash does, are you retarded ? Billups plays with the best starting five in the league. It's pretty easy to make Hamilton, Wallace, Wallace, and Prince look good. Mainly because they ARE GOOD.

Nash makes raja bell, boris diaw, and kurt thomas look like all stars. Marion isn't a big man, are you stupid ? He's a small forward, he plays way small at PF. Diaw is almost averaging a triple double ! Nash spoon feeds everyone on that team the best stats of there careers and makes it look easy.

Nash wasn't traded either, he was signed by the suns through free agency.

The Lakers aren't one of the teams that's won 50 games are they ? Meanwhile Nash's suns have won 53 games without their "best player".

I could careless about what Bill Simmons has to say, and Jason Kidd's MVP is sitting in Tim Duncan's trophy case. Along with that ring he didn't win. ( first one was stolen, second one was earned by TDunk, although Tim Duncan was pretty insane that year )

Skip Bayless wrote a pretty damn good article about Nash on Page 2 as well if you want to link what journalists think.

I could careless about history, Lebron has esteemed company as well, being the only player to average 30 7 and 6 along with MJ and The Big O. I think Nash was averaging 20 and 10 there for awhile which is something not many have done.

This Kobe season is just like the one where T Mac went crazy and won the scoring title in Orlando. T Mac didn't make his teamates better and didn't win the MVP. Much like Kobe shouldn't.

Carpet Lint

04-18-2006, 04:34 PM

Nash won MVP last year because he managed to peak in a year that no one else really peaked. Kidd had like an identical season, but that was the year of the Duncan, and so he lost out. Too bad. Nash was only up against Old Man Shaq last year, and he still just barely managed to win in the closest MVP vote of all time.

Nash got one just because they have to hand one out every year. I mean...goddamn, Shaq only has one MVP award, even though EVERYBODY knows that he's been the most dominant player in the league every single year he's been in it.

Hoonyo

04-18-2006, 04:41 PM

Mavs couldn't go all the way with Nash because:
1) Shaq was still playing for the Lakers
2) Spurs
3) Kings were in their prime

Look at reason #2. That's the reason they aren't going to win it all this year again.

Richter85

04-18-2006, 05:00 PM

Nash won mvp because he's the GREAT WHITE HYPE. There i said it.

Nash makes his teammates better because he's a freaken point gaurd. That's his job, to penetrate, handle the ball, and create open shots for his teammates.

Kobe is a shooting gaurd/point gaurd. And you know what? he's freaken good at that too. He leads the league in scoring and still average some assists in a team that can't shoot for shit.

Here's the thing though, can Nash be a shooting gaurd? Can he shoot as much clutch shots as KOBe?

This MVP folks. THE BEST player. not the player who makes teammates better. Else Ronny Tauriaf and Mark Madsen will be the front runners cuz they be cheering like crazy and boosting morale.

Carpet Lint

04-18-2006, 05:19 PM

The easy way to gauge the most valuable player in the league is to imagine how the team would be like if you replaced them with a league average player.

Take out Nash, replace him with like...I don't know, Chris Duhon or Earl Watson or something and then look at that team. Might still be a top 5 seed in the West. Nash is important, but the coaching, the personnel, and the style of play encourages this type of play. There's like ten guys on that team averaging career highs in points.

Suns wouldn't be that good without Nash, definately. But they wouldn't be that bad.

Take out Kobe and replace him with like...Mark Miller or something, and then look at the Lakers. They'd struggle to win 15 games.

In this sense, Kobe is the most valuable player in the league, because THIS YEAR, I don't think there's a bigger drop when you replace any player with a league average one.

They do this in baseball - it's called Win Shares (but it's easier to do in baseball because it's more of a game of stats than basketball is) - and they might have this on 82games.com or something, but that's the basic idea. Replace any player with a league average dude at the same position, and give him a number to represent the amount of wins that the team would lose or gain if everything else was the same.

I think we can all agree that Kobe would have the biggest number, because THIS YEAR, no one else has meant more to his team.

BUT

That's not reason enough to just hand the MVP award to him. Like I said before, the MVP award doesn't always go to the actual most valuable player.

Iverson's been pulling this off for years. Kobe's only been doing it the last two.

The Lakers would have won like 15 games this year if they didn't have Kobe.

But same damn thing with the Sixers and Iverson...'cept that's how it's been for like the last 5-10 years.

But Iverson only won the MVP award when the Sixers actually accomplished something. The MVP award doesn't literally go to the most valuable player in the league for that year - maybe it should, but it doesn't.

It generally goes to the best individual player with good stats on one of the league's top teams.

Steve Nash winning it last year was the exception to the rule, not the standard. Because he and the Suns peaked in the right year - there was no other usual candidate, 'cept for Shaq, and he only lost by the slimmest margin of all time.

Kobe could actually be the MVP, but that doesn't mean he gets the MVP award.

DanielLarusso

04-18-2006, 05:31 PM

Shaq in his prime > everyone on that mavs team, easily. Those three rings are going to be the deciding factor in Kobe being better then Jordan or him being T-Mac with defense. If Kobe can win a ring without Shaq, then he may be the best player ever, but if he can't, then he's just a selfish mother fucker who is good but was in the right place at the right time.

You should know those three rings all belonged to the big daddy. Kobe just sat there and stewed because he wasn't the center of attention and then ruined a dynasty. Kobe doesn't deserve any of this OMG HE IS THE BEST PLAYER EVER, until he wins a ring without Shaq. I don't see that happening this year, or any year while Tim Duncan is still playing.

You want to make a big deal out of last year ? Okay, lets look at what happened...

Shaq leaves, team misses the playoffs. Kobe isn't looking all that amazing all by himself.

Nash goes to a team that missed the playoffs and transforms them into the toast of the west. The Mavs continue to win because they have one of the deepest rosters in the league. They lose to the eventual NBA champions in the WCFs.

Billups doesn't make his teamates better like Nash does, are you retarded ? Billups plays with the best starting five in the league. It's pretty easy to make Hamilton, Wallace, Wallace, and Prince look good. Mainly because they ARE GOOD.

Nash makes raja bell, boris diaw, and kurt thomas look like all stars. Marion isn't a big man, are you stupid ? He's a small forward, he plays way small at PF. Diaw is almost averaging a triple double ! Nash spoon feeds everyone on that team the best stats of there careers and makes it look easy.

Nash wasn't traded either, he was signed by the suns through free agency.

The Lakers aren't one of the teams that's won 50 games are they ? Meanwhile Nash's suns have won 53 games without their "best player".

I could careless about what Bill Simmons has to say, and Jason Kidd's MVP is sitting in Tim Duncan's trophy case. Along with that ring he didn't win. ( first one was stolen, second one was earned by TDunk, although Tim Duncan was pretty insane that year )

Skip Bayless wrote a pretty damn good article about Nash on Page 2 as well if you want to link what journalists think.

I could careless about history, Lebron has esteemed company as well, being the only player to average 30 7 and 6 along with MJ and The Big O. I think Nash was averaging 20 and 10 there for awhile which is something not many have done.

This Kobe season is just like the one where T Mac went crazy and won the scoring title in Orlando. T Mac didn't make his teamates better and didn't win the MVP. Much like Kobe shouldn't.

No shit Shaq in his prime was better than everybody on that Mavs team. Shaq and Kobe are two of the greatest players ever. That goes without saying.

If Kobe can win a ring without Shaq? What about if Shaq can win a ring without KOBE? BOTH of them won three rings together. Include Phil Jackson in that mix also. And I don’t know if you’ve been living under a rock, but both Shaq and Kobe are already considered among the best ever – they don’t need championships separate from each other to prove that.

Shaq got took off that roster and the Lakers got worse – that’s why nobody is saying Kobe was the MVP last year, we’re talking this year. Again, no shit, Shaq is one of the greatest. If you took Kobe off of a roster, that team would get worse. That’s the caliber of player you’re talking about. They are irreplaceable – maybe Kobe can be replaced with LeBron – but guess what? – LeBron is ALSO going to go down as one of the best ever.

If you take Kobe off of a team you better replace him with a LEGEND, otherwise that team is going to get worse. He is that type of player! I REPEAT, Nash left (traded, didn’t re-sign, whatever besides the point) his team and got replaced by WHO? Jason Terry or whoever, AND THE TEAM GOT BETTER! And for those who are not informed, Jason Terry will not go down as one of the best ever.

How can you talk that shit about Chauncey Billups? Dude you don’t know what Billups does! Ask anyone one of the Pistons who the heart of that team is, and they’ll tell you it’s “Mr. Big Shot” who makes that team what it is. And obviously they have a better roster than the Suns, I just said that in my last post. I take that into consideration, which is one more reason why Kobe’s feat is THAT much more impressive.

And I can tell you don’t know the first thing about some of these folks cause you keep throwing in Raja Bell with these dudes Nash “makes better.” Like Marion, who was an All-Star before Nash arrived, Raja Bell looked just as good now as he did four years ago, if not BETTER than. Raja Bell was on the Philadelphia team that went to the finals and he ripped shit up that whole playoffs. That dude is not someone who just came into his own playing with Nash.

And he was ripping shit up playing with Iverson! So I guess Iverson makes his teammates better too just as good as Nash does. At least Iverson led a team to the NBA Finals.

The Invincible Swordsman

04-18-2006, 06:21 PM

We're just about done with the regular season..... and I'm still wondering if some of you guys have watched a single game.

The stupidity of hating on Nash has got to stop. He makes bums/journeymen have career highs in points and makes good players beasts. Do you people honestly think Boris Diaw is some kind of beast? That Shawn Marion isn't nothing but a taller Paul Pierce? Raja Bell is Ray Allen or something? Get off it. Raja Bell was a fuckin' journeyman. He was supposed to add DEFENSE to Phoenix. But he's putting up 15 a night. He shot 40% from 3-point land before? On how many attempts? I guaran-damn-tee you he didn't get ANYWHERE NEAR that many attempts shooting for Philly, Dallas, or Utah. James Jones is getting 10 points a night. Eddie House is getting 10 points a night.......

WHO THE FUCK ARE THESE PEOPLE?!!

All he does is collapses defenses, pass out, get the assist... and people treat him like god. Nash passes down the court to a guy wide open... assist... yay.
Any team that runs and shoots a lot is going to have a lot of double digit scorers.

Jason is such a superior player even to this day, and still never got a MVP. It's an outrage.

Shut the fuck up. "All he does is collapse defenses"..... hey! Naruto collapses defenses..... how come Bruce Bowen ain't puttin' up 15 a night? How's Finley ppg? Jason (I'm assuming you're talking about Kidd) has fucking nothing to do with anything. Winning the MVP is about luck as much as it's about skill. But since you wanna play the game...... Nash is the better all-around offensive pg. Yeah..... Ason can post up, but you can't leave Nash one-on-one or take a step back on him like you could Ason. Kidd's the better defensive pg, but everything else Nash does just as good as Kidd.

Stop hating..... "All he does is collapse defenses"...... Yeah.... ON EVERY FUCKING PLAY. NJ would trade him for Kidd in a heartbeat. So would everybody else who has a point guard with maybe the exception of D-Troit. Throw a pass to someone wide open. Wait a minute..... doesn't every guard do that? Oh wait..... no, they don't. Nash's court vision is unparalelled and he gets people the rock when they are "wide-open". He collapses defenses to get them "wide open". You think those other bums get points because they run so much? Well what the fuck is Philly's excuse for having Korver and AI2 be so dam ninconsistent. I'll tell you why.... it's because they don't know when they'll get the fucking ball that's why. I love AI...... but put Nash on that team instead of Iverson and watch Korver get 17, AI2 get 16, and bums like John Salmons and Matt Barnes would be getting 10 a night. We'd all be hailing Samuel Dalembert as the next Ralph Sampson.

Oh yeah..... and Nash averages 19 points a game, he shoots 51% from the field, 43% from 3, and 90% from the line. Kidd's numbers were never (and will never be) that good. No pg in the L other than Billups has numbers that good with the junk he's played with this year.

The Suns still have an All-Star on their team without Nash. One who was an All-Star BEFORE Nash got there. The Lakers have Kobe and Kobe. You say the Suns would suck without Nash, well guess what? When Nash left Dallas, HOW DID THAT TURN OUT?

POINT DENIED.

Until Steve Nash can get a team to the playoffs (Five to seven games over 500, in the toughest conference) that consists of three reject starters and one decent player - he’s not Kobe Bryant.

What the hell are you talking about? Here's the Suns starting lineup for much of this year after Stodamire and Kurt Thomas went down and before they signed Tim Thomas.......

Nash
Marion (He's like Odom. He's a good player but he's not a beast like Amare without Nash)
Raja Bell (bum)
Boris Diaw (who?)
James Jones (who?)

Shit...... That lineup is just about the same on paper as Kobe, Smush, Odom, Mihm, and Brown/Cook. But look at where Phoenix is and look at where LA is. You tell me..... who's done more with less/the same? Yeah, Kobe got 3 rings with an All-Star..... but you seem to be forgetting something.....

HE WASN'T THE FUCKING STAR ON THE TEAM!! That was Shaq. Kobe was Shaq's little bitch. Hey Kobe!.... how open are those lanes now that the Daddy isn't in the paint? Yeah, I thought so. Good thing you got that great 3-point range.

Hell Cleveland has a better roster than Phoenix talent-wise.... which will bring me to another point......

Cleveland has a better team on paper than LA or Phoenix. But.... Bron's sidekicks ain't that great. Yeah..... they're a number 4 seed. But do they REALLY have a shot at anything but getting swept but D-Troit and NJ? Not really.

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

It is NOT an "outrage" that Nash wins the MVP again. Stop trying to be smart and just think and pay attention for a minute.

AkumaTX

04-18-2006, 06:23 PM

pretty much impossible to stop Lebron when he gets the ball at the top of the key and bulldozes his way in.)

Fuck the no touch rules. Seriously. Whistle blowing sucks ass, but of course stern knows whats best:wasted:

Mario Lemieux!

04-18-2006, 07:05 PM

Kobe can't win MVP honours until he ass rapes another white girl (doesn't have to be from Colorado again)

Dirk can't win MVP until his album wins him a Grammy

Lebron can't win until he averages a triple-double

Chauncey can't win until he goes back to the T-Wolves and brings them to the Finals

Nash wins by default.

End of discussion.

DanielLarusso

04-18-2006, 07:05 PM

What the hell are you talking about? Here's the Suns starting lineup for much of this year after Stodamire and Kurt Thomas went down and before they signed Tim Thomas.......

Nash
Marion (He's like Odom. He's a good player but he's not a beast like Amare without Nash)
Raja Bell (bum)
Boris Diaw (who?)
James Jones (who?)

Shit...... That lineup is just about the same on paper as Kobe, Smush, Odom, Mihm, and Brown/Cook. But look at where Phoenix is and look at where LA is. You tell me..... who's done more with less/the same? Yeah, Kobe got 3 rings with an All-Star..... but you seem to be forgetting something.....

HE WASN'T THE FUCKING STAR ON THE TEAM!! That was Shaq. Kobe was Shaq's little bitch. Hey Kobe!.... how open are those lanes now that the Daddy isn't in the paint? Yeah, I thought so. Good thing you got that great 3-point range.

Hell Cleveland has a better roster than Phoenix talent-wise.... which will bring me to another point......

Cleveland has a better team on paper than LA or Phoenix. But.... Bron's sidekicks ain't that great. Yeah..... they're a number 4 seed. But do they REALLY have a shot at anything but getting swept but D-Troit and NJ? Not really.

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

It is NOT an "outrage" that Nash wins the MVP again. Stop trying to be smart and just think and pay attention for a minute.

Swordsman, I respect you as a poster, but we’re gonna have to agree to disagree on this. Everything you said in your reply to me I’ve already been over, and then some. But to sum up: Marion like Odom? Shawn Marion is/was an All-Star caliber player. Shawn Marion gives it every game. Shawn Marion averages 21 and 11. Lamar Odom averages 14 and 9. If Odom gave you 20, it was an offensive explosion.

They are not the same player. And you say Marion wasn’t a beast like Amare without Nash, well Marion was an All-Star before he got with Nash, so apparently he was beasting on somebody. You know how many points Marion was averaging before he got with Nash? 20. You know what he’s averaging now, 21. I’d hardly consider that taking a bum and making him a beast.

Kobe AND Shaq were the stars (plural) of those Lakers teams. The Lakers wouldn’t have won the FIRST championship without Kobe, much less any of the others. Kobe wouldn’t have won without Shaq – they were a TEAM. Game 4 of the NBA Finals, Lakers vs. Pacers, Shaq fouls out around the end of regulation. Kobe goes OFF, taking the game into overtime and exploding with clutch shot after clutch shot in overtime. Scenarios like this played out MANY times over the course of those three championships.

Niggas need to stop discrediting Kobe. Kobe ain’t won shit without Shaq, but Shaq ain’t won shit without Kobe. Shaq needed Kobe a LOT more than Michael needed Scotty, even though in both cases they needed each other.

And I don’t know how many Lakers games you’ve seen, but those lanes for Kobe are still open. Do you seriously think Kobe is averaging 35 points a game shooting jumpshots and threes? Do you seriously think he went took 20 plus free throws in that game he scored 81 shooting nothing but jumpshots and threes? Kobe Bryant takes more free throws than anybody, you don’t do that if you’re not driving in the lane.

I don’t “try” to be smart homeboy. Just cause not everyone sees it like you doesn’t mean they ain’t paying attention. It means there are no FACTS on the MVP - only OPINION, and everyone’s opinion is different.

This has been The Kid saying:

I’m The Kid.

The Invincible Swordsman

04-18-2006, 07:16 PM

No shit Shaq in his prime was better than everybody on that Mavs team. Shaq and Kobe are two of the greatest players ever. That goes without saying.

If Kobe can win a ring without Shaq? What about if Shaq can win a ring without KOBE? BOTH of them won three rings together. Include Phil Jackson in that mix also. And I don’t know if you’ve been living under a rock, but both Shaq and Kobe are already considered among the best ever – they don’t need championships separate from each other to prove that.

Shaq got took off that roster and the Lakers got worse – that’s why nobody is saying Kobe was the MVP last year, we’re talking this year. Again, no shit, Shaq is one of the greatest. If you took Kobe off of a roster, that team would get worse. That’s the caliber of player you’re talking about. They are irreplaceable – maybe Kobe can be replaced with LeBron – but guess what? – LeBron is ALSO going to go down as one of the best ever.

If you take Kobe off of a team you better replace him with a LEGEND, otherwise that team is going to get worse. He is that type of player! I REPEAT, Nash left (traded, didn’t re-sign, whatever besides the point) his team and got replaced by WHO? Jason Terry or whoever, AND THE TEAM GOT BETTER! And for those who are not informed, Jason Terry will not go down as one of the best ever.

Who the fuck cares who "The best ever is"? This isn't "who the best player ever AWARD". It's the MVP for 2005-2006. Use your brain. Kobe is an awesome one man show. So was World B. Free and Connie Hawkins. Since when do you have to be one of the 50 best players ever to win an MVP?

And don't try to give me this "Dallas got better" bullshit. 1st of all, they would've ended up in the same place as Phoenix if Phoenix had won that head-to-head series..... home after getting their butts whooped by San Antonio. 2ndly as far as I'm concerned, the Dallas team that had Nash and the team this year are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TEAMS. This Dallas team this year plays defense. Dallas NEVER did that before. 3rdly, you were the one bringing up the whole "what did Kobe do with an all-star?" argument. Don't try to turn it into something else. You ran your mouth about Kobe would be the shit with an All-Star to try to proove your point that he's more valuable because Nash plays with one. Well here's a question for you......

How many All-time greats has Nash played with so he could get a ring?

You don't have to answer. You know why? Because nobody cares and it's irrelevant. The MVP isn't just about who's the best one-man show. You gotta be on a team that's really good too. The Lakers are a #7 Seed. The Suns are 2 seed with the same kind of roster. Why? Because Nash means more and does more for his team than Kobe does. Kobe scores a lot of points. So the fuck what. So does Carmello Anthony and Gilbert Arenas. Bernard King is one of the greatest ballers ever. How many MVPs has he won? Well maybe if he won a title or had a team that was worth a damn he'd have gotten a couple.

And I can tell you don’t know the first thing about some of these folks cause you keep throwing in Raja Bell with these dudes Nash “makes better.” Like Marion, who was an All-Star before Nash arrived, Raja Bell looked just as good now as he did four years ago, if not BETTER than. Raja Bell was on the Philadelphia team that went to the finals and he ripped shit up that whole playoffs. That dude is not someone who just came into his own playing with Nash.

And he was ripping shit up playing with Iverson! So I guess Iverson makes his teammates better too just as good as Nash does. At least Iverson led a team to the NBA Finals.

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

You are fucking dreaming when you're talking about Raja Bell. He's a bum. He didn't get any playing time in Philly until the playoffs because George Lynch got hurt and Kukoc couldn't play defense. Did he even score 10 points in any game with Philly? He was A DEFENSIVE PLAYER. You know what that means? That means he can't fucking score. That was his calling card in Philly (and he barely played in Philly I don't know WHAT you're talking about), Dallas, and Utah. Now all of a sudden he's dropping 15 a night. This is not a coincidence. He started almost every game for Utah last year. Did he average 15 ppg? Did he shoot the lights out from 3 on as many attempts? How about James Jones? Or Eddie House? It's because of Nash.

Can Nash score 81 points? Probably not. But can Kobe make Raja Bell average 15 ppg or Jones 10 or House 10?

You know he can't. Anybody who has watched the NBA this year knows he can't.

Iverson led his team to an NBA Finals? So...... what's Kobe ever led? This is the first year he's been to the playoffs as the leader. Nash has practically the same roster and his team is a #2 seed. Wake me up when The Kobe can not watch Sportscenter and hope and pray that the NO/OK Hornets lose so they can get into the playoffs.

KillerKai

04-18-2006, 07:20 PM

you can wake up as of two days ago. Lakers have already clinched ^_^

Hunter D

04-18-2006, 07:23 PM

IS you are wrong. Bell's stats haven't really been that big of an inprovement. The reason he is putting up 3 more points this year is because he is playing 9 more minutes per game this season than he did last season. Bell's FG% and 3P% is about the same as they were last year. You fail to take into account the fact that bell's shooting has improved every year that he has been in the league. A few teams were looking to pick him up this past off season because he defends well and can hit the three, you act like the guy came out of nowhere. The only reason that you didn't know about him is because he has been playing in Utah, a team that gets only a little play on tv.

Alot of the credit that nash is getting should go to coach antony. He has used all the players well. Diaw for example wasn't cut out to be a point guard in ATL, but he does have good BB IQ. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that notices that Diaw is a good ball handler, good passer, and that he can also post.

Nash is has done a good job, but all the glory isn't is a alone. The suns coaching staff and office has done a great job finding guys that compliment eachother.

DanielLarusso

04-18-2006, 07:29 PM

IS you are wrong. Bell's stats haven't really been that big of an inprovement. The reason he is putting up 3 more points this year is because he is playing 9 more minutes per game this season than he did last season. Bell's FG% and 3P% is about the same as they were last year. You fail to take into account the fact that bell's shooting has improved every year that he has been in the league. A few teams were looking to pick him up this past off season because he defends well and can hit the three, you act like the guy came out of nowhere. The only reason that you didn't know about him is because he has been playing in Utah, a team that gets only a little play on tv.

Alot of the credit that nash is getting should go to coach antony. He has used all the players well. Diaw for example wasn't cut out to be a point guard, but he does have good BB IQ. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that notices that Diaw is a good ball handler, good passer, and that he can also post.

Nash is has done a good job, but all the glory isn't is a alone. The suns coaching staff and office has done a great job finding guys that compliment eachother.

It ain't worth it Hunter D.

When the name "Kobe" is involved, people act a fool.

RetroKid

04-18-2006, 07:40 PM

I pretty much agree with everything Swordsman said about Kidd and Nash (even the "Ason" comments because Kidd's jumper is pretty much nonexistant). However, one thing I disagree with is that New Jersey would trade Kidd for Nash in a heartbeat. Yes, both of them are equal handling the ball and finding the open man, and Nash is a better scorer, but the Nets would never accept a trade like that because Kidd means so much more to Jersey than his ballhandling. Kidd is the team leader in just about every category that's not scoring. He's the leading rebounder (something that the Nets as a team are pretty bad at), and arguably their best defender, while Nash isn't very good in those areas. Personally, they cancel each other out, but the Nets need Kidd's rebounding and defense a lot more than Nash's shooting.

Nash for MVP, by the way.

Cool-Breeze

04-18-2006, 09:24 PM

We're just about done with the regular season..... and I'm still wondering if some of you guys have watched a single game.

The stupidity of hating on Nash has got to stop. He makes bums/journeymen have career highs in points and makes good players beasts. Do you people honestly think Boris Diaw is some kind of beast? That Shawn Marion isn't nothing but a taller Paul Pierce? Raja Bell is Ray Allen or something? Get off it. Raja Bell was a fuckin' journeyman. He was supposed to add DEFENSE to Phoenix. But he's putting up 15 a night. He shot 40% from 3-point land before? On how many attempts? I guaran-damn-tee you he didn't get ANYWHERE NEAR that many attempts shooting for Philly, Dallas, or Utah. James Jones is getting 10 points a night. Eddie House is getting 10 points a night.......

WHO THE FUCK ARE THESE PEOPLE?!!

Nash
Marion (He's like Odom. He's a good player but he's not a beast like Amare without Nash)
Raja Bell (bum)
Boris Diaw (who?)
James Jones (who?)

Shit...... That lineup is just about the same on paper as Kobe, Smush, Odom, Mihm, and Brown/Cook. But look at where Phoenix is and look at where LA is. You tell me..... who's done more with less/the same? Yeah, Kobe got 3 rings with an All-Star..... but you seem to be forgetting something.....

HE WASN'T THE FUCKING STAR ON THE TEAM!! That was Shaq. Kobe was Shaq's little bitch. Hey Kobe!.... how open are those lanes now that the Daddy isn't in the paint? Yeah, I thought so. Good thing you got that great 3-point range.

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

It is NOT an "outrage" that Nash wins the MVP again. Stop trying to be smart and just think and pay attention for a minute.

Swordsman Made my Point with this post, this post explains Why Nash Should be number one or two for the MVP slot.

I pretty much agree with everything Swordsman said about Kidd and Nash (even the "Ason" comments because Kidd's jumper is pretty much nonexistant). However, one thing I disagree with is that New Jersey would trade Kidd for Nash in a heartbeat. Yes, both of them are equal handling the ball and finding the open man, and Nash is a better scorer, but the Nets would never accept a trade like that because Kidd means so much more to Jersey than his ballhandling. Kidd is the team leader in just about every category that's not scoring. He's the leading rebounder (something that the Nets as a team are pretty bad at), and arguably their best defender, while Nash isn't very good in those areas. Personally, they cancel each other out, but the Nets need Kidd's rebounding and defense a lot more than Nash's shooting.

Nash for MVP, by the way.

The Nets in the past would rather have run the ball alot and often and thats one reason they would take Nash.

Hunter D wrong as ususal, Raja is a journeyman he has been looked at by every team,every year that his stats seem to progress, his stats HAVE progressed do to the fact of the Suns ability to have a point guard who can up grade Starting 5 players as well as bench warmers.
D'Antoni aint Coaching Nash into making these guys look good son get real, his skill and ability to be the best floor general right now does this,they dont even really run a set offense,Half court or what ever, this year there run went down a bit, they penetrated with Nash and Marion, Kicked it out to those guys standing around not getting D'ed up so yea its the NBA fuckers better hit a WIDE OPEN JUMPER.
Compliment each other?? How do they compliment each other outside of Nash? With out him they Wont get those Wide open Jumpers, Double Doubles. How can you not see this?? So imagine the Suns without Amare (Hurt) and Nash Hurt do you really think... Leandro Garbosa,Raja Bell,Eddie House,Brian Grant,Shawn Marion would all look as good???? (They wouldnt even be near the playoffs)

Cool-Breeze

04-18-2006, 09:42 PM

So once again we got people like the freegin Karate Kid only going for Kobe cause he is a scoring threat.
SO FUCKING WHAT:annoy:

My point about the West rang true, Yes the East is like below .500 but the last 6 teams in the west all died out as the season grew longer (The west always beats up on the lower east I might add)
Golden State Started out with double figures in the win colum and singles in the losers now look at them AND they had injuries as well as Dallas did.
Houston only lost like 2 guys detramental players the whole season and didnt make it you gonna blame it on the coaching??
Those Examples were to say the west is LESS COMPETITIVE then it has been in like the past 5 years dude, The Lakers making it to the Playoffs is no surprise to me when the Clippers made neccesary moves to get just ok and the Great Play of Elton Brand and Cassell not getting hurt for one season.

The Sonics Dropped,Utah Dropped,Golden State Dropped,Portland Dropped,Houston Dropped (NEED I SAY MORE)
Hell the Hornets almost made the playoffs and you gonna give Kobe props for scoring 81 points??

He didnt help the team prepare for the playoffs by scoring 81 points, if they get troussed by the SUNS then what you going to say? If they Actually triple team him and he averages less then 25 in the series then what you gonna say?
When he is forced to pass it to a wide open George or Odom and the BRICK til they build a new Staples Center then what you going to say??
And even though his team is expected to lose in the first round, his team has not currently showed real unity nor have they showed they can last as a dominant frachise with the current team as it is you saying he deserves the MVP???

Over 2 point guards who have made bottum tear bench warmers look like freegin 6th men of the year ALL year round?? Isnt this a TEAM oriented game? Most Valuable Player whats the true meaning of this term?

Jason Kidd, Nash,Dirk,Then Kobe no way in hell im giving him MVP just cause he scores points, KOBE DONT PLAY DEFENSE EITHER RALPHIE you been kickin yo self in the head with that crane kick to much, I aint never seen Kobe D any other SO's up let alone his nemisis Ray Allen get ya mind right, sad part about this whole arguement is... I DONT EVEN HATE KOBE I just know he doesnt deserve the MVP award period now lets move on please.

Cletus Kasady

04-18-2006, 09:44 PM

Dirk can't win MVP until his album wins him a Grammy

ELABORATE PLZ.

GeoG2

04-19-2006, 02:08 AM

No. I'd give that to any of the following

T. Prince
B. Wallace
B. Bowen
R. Artest

Hell, freaking Quinton Ross has been a better defensive player then Kobe this year. His D and playmaking have dropped in order to enhance his scoring.

GeoG2

04-19-2006, 02:26 AM

Nash is the better all-around offensive pg. Yeah..... Ason can post up, but you can't leave Nash one-on-one or take a step back on him like you could Ason. Kidd's the better defensive pg, but everything else Nash does just as good as Kidd.

I don't give a fuck if Nash is lights out on the floor, he's not better then Jason. D'Antoni's offense makes Nash what he is and gives him the freedom. Nash is subpar otherwise.

Outside shooting, there is NOTHING Nash does better then Kidd. NOTHING. TIS, are you serious?

Kidd posts up, plays D, rips passing lanes, has had superior court vision since day 1, more athletic, and rebounds. Nash doesn't have the shit Jason does.

Jason has about the same amount of steals his last 4-5 years then Nash has for his entire career. Nash's freaking career averages are on par with Jason's rookie season stats. Nash has a couple career triple doubles while Jason could retire with the most in NBA history. Jason is a hall of famer already... before last season, Nash was just a good player... and to many, he still just is.

And for the hell of it... we could say Nash is Jason's son, because he sure as hell didn't know how to play like he does now when he was playing backup to Kidd.

Don't mention his scoring... who gives a damn about his 19ppg when he's not the team leader. That bull does not fly.

There is no fucking comparison. At all. Let it go.

2 years does not cover the 10+ career of Kidd. Get it right and behave.

NJ would trade him for Kidd in a heartbeat.

Don't overdo it.

Richter85

04-19-2006, 02:47 AM

The following are stats for the suns on April 16th:

F/G 3 PT F/T Reb Assist Points
Boris Diaw: 5/9 0/0 1-2 10 12 11
L. Barbosa: 6/13 2/7 2-2 2 3 16
S. Marion: 10/23 2/6 7-9 7 1 29
Jones 3/7 2/3 3-4 8 0 11

This is all i'll post cuz the rest are irrelevent. The surprise to most of you guys is that this is the game WITHOUT Steve Nash.

(edit) http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2006041409

This box score shows similar to the above.

(end of edit)

OMG LOOK boris Diaw "The BUM" got a triple double. OH Snapz, The Matrix ain't suppose to have 29, there's no steve nash to dish those to him. James jones isn't suppose to make shit because steve nash is suppose to give him those nice, great looking open shots.

Truth be told, The suns will be fine without nash. They won't win, but the players will still average the same amount of points. If anything I give props to D'antoni.

James jones came from the pacers. he never had great playing time. You know why? because of freaken Reggie Miller and artest.

Diaw always had talent (freaken his mother is considered the best female player in france bball), just that hawks never gave him a chance.

All of you guys are saying KObe isn't making his teammates better. Well Freaken look at Kwame Brown. JOrdan can't even make that idiot better. Yet when he comes to the lakers he been finding his groove with Kobe.

Kobe for President.

Hunter D

04-19-2006, 07:32 AM

Hunter D wrong as ususal, Raja is a journeyman he has been looked at by every team,every year that his stats seem to progress, his stats HAVE progressed do to the fact of the Suns ability to have a point guard who can up grade Starting 5 players as well as bench warmers.
D'Antoni aint Coaching Nash into making these guys look good son get real, his skill and ability to be the best floor general right now does this,they dont even really run a set offense,Half court or what ever, this year there run went down a bit, they penetrated with Nash and Marion, Kicked it out to those guys standing around not getting D'ed up so yea its the NBA fuckers better hit a WIDE OPEN JUMPER.
Compliment each other?? How do they compliment each other outside of Nash? With out him they Wont get those Wide open Jumpers, Double Doubles. How can you not see this?? So imagine the Suns without Amare (Hurt) and Nash Hurt do you really think... Leandro Garbosa,Raja Bell,Eddie House,Brian Grant,Shawn Marion would all look as good???? (They wouldnt even be near the playoffs)
Wrong as usuall, nigga please. I never said that bell wasn't a journeyman. I said that over the years the guy has developed into good shooter which is a fact. He did not play with PG of Nashes calibur and shot just as well there, fact. The guy is playing 9 more minutes per game this season than he did last season, fact. You guys act like superstars are the only ones that add to their games. Newsflash, superstars aren't the only ones that improve!

This a link to Bell's stats: http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/playerStats?categoryId=71369 are you going to tell me that the guy hasn't been improving every season. Notice that bell improves every year. His stats this year are similar to the stats he put in Utah last season. The only difference is that he is getting 9 more minutes per game.

Don't talk out of you ass pal. Nash is a great PG, but the guys that the suns have signed compliment him. Their are a couple of other point guards that would be putting up similar numbers if they had a team like nash's.

Shit, Andre Miller averages only two less assists per game. He is putting up excellent numbers on a team that doesn't have jump shot shooters. OMFG Miller should be MVP. He makes the no jumpshot having scrubs in denver better!

The kid isn't backing kobe for MVP because he is a big scorer, he backing kobe because he willed his team to the playoffs. No one else in the league but kobe could have gotten the lakers into the playoffs.

Coolbreeze care to quote the other posts in this thread where I have shown that I have no knowledge of sports? Or are you thinking about the football thread where I said Manning is overrated?

ViciousSLASH

04-19-2006, 07:46 AM

The following are stats for the suns on April 16th:

F/G 3 PT F/T Reb Assist Points
Boris Diaw: 5/9 0/0 1-2 10 12 11
L. Barbosa: 6/13 2/7 2-2 2 3 16
S. Marion: 10/23 2/6 7-9 7 1 29
Jones 3/7 2/3 3-4 8 0 11

This is all i'll post cuz the rest are irrelevent. The surprise to most of you guys is that this is the game WITHOUT Steve Nash.

Um, wasn't this the throw away game on Sunday ? This post didn't really help your arguement at all.

You guys keep bring up the system that they've placed AROUND NASH. Without Nash it doesn't go. He's the main cog in that clock. Watch Barbosa try and make the offense go, if it's so easy to run and play within that system why can't Barbosa work it like Nash ?

TIS is right, those guys are bums sans Marion, Raja Bell is a nobody, who is James Jones ?

Geo your wrong about Kidd being THAT much better then Nash, Kidd isn't as quick as Nash, and Kidd can't shoot for shit. Kidd also has Vince Carter and Richard Jefferson on the wings. The Nets should be running all night long, but that's the coaches fault. Kidd has taken on a dimisnished role this season as well. ( on purpose for the embetterment of the team ) Kidd is better defensively, but Nash has his team with a better record in the Western Conference.

EDIT - No one else in the league but kobe could have gotten the lakers into the playoffs.

Allen Iverson has been doing this for most of his career with shitty sixers teams at about 8 inched shorter. AI is a complete freak of nature, too bad he's such freak he's impossible to build around.

Cletus Kasady

04-19-2006, 07:58 AM

To be fair, Kidd is a step slow now that he's aged. Even still, the Nets don't make that trade.

Cool-Breeze: I still think Shaq and Duncan, despite their decline this season, are automatic playoff berths; moreso than Kobe, anyways. That's part of why I believe (Carpet Lint pointed this out) the "substitute X for Y" argument only works when you do it for players of the same position; otherwise chances are you're just looking at team holes.

Hence why Kobe merits consideration; there isn't another two-guard in the league who's really notorious for raising the level of play of his teammates. Even though it's the general concensus that Kobe's a gunner, I don't think there's another SG who makes the Lakers better than they are now.

The D Man

04-19-2006, 08:48 AM

Of course back in the day Kidd was probably the best PG around. GP was a slightly better defender and a little better scorer but Kidd was one of the best distributors around.

And unlike GP, Kidd can still play defense to this day. GP is still way too overconfident on D. He plays everyone tight and then they just blow by him.

Oh yeah, J Kidd should probably have an MVP right now but whatever.

DanielLarusso

04-19-2006, 08:55 AM

And the Suns may be a "#2 seed" but that's only because of the fucked up playoff format. Dallas is the real #2 seed as they have the second best record in the conference, but they've been jacked by the playoff format. Don't look at the seed, look at the record.

And AGAIN, the Suns' roster IS NOT comparable to the Lakers' roster. Just like niggaz need to stop discrediting Kobe, niggaz need to stop discrediting Shawn Marion. He is NOT Lamar Odom. He is an All-Star player. Kobe does not have a player on his team comparable to Shawn Marion.

Yet the Lakers are only nine games behind the Suns. And AGAIN, it ain't like the Suns are ALL THAT just like the Lakers ain't ALL THAT. People here are talking like the Suns are about to win it all! They have just as much chance to do that as the Lakers. Either San Anton or Dallas will come out of that conference. So stop acting like you're comparing a piece of shit team to an elite team when you're talking what Kobe is doing and what Nash is doing.

With AMARE, the Suns are an elite team. Without him, they are a GOOD team. A little better than the Lakers.

And for the people talking about Iverson taking that Philly team to the playoffs and deep into the playoffs, yeah HE WAS AN MVP CANDIDATE TOO? Your point? If I remember correctly, he won MVP that year he took the Sixers to the finals. And it was well deserved. That was the SAME playoffs, that Raja Bell made his name.

Is Bell a journeyman? Yes. There are PLENTY of journeyman. Was he a "bum" before he started playing with Nash? Hell fuck no. Bell's points has increased as his minutes have increased. Whenever Larry Brown put him on the floor, he produced. Brown just didn't put him on the floor enough. The Suns are giving him nine more minutes per game than the last team he was with gave him, and he's averaging three more points the same amount of rebounds and one more assist.

Just like Marion was BALLING before Nash, so was Bell. Stop acting like Nash is goddamn King Midas and he touches shit and turns it into gold.

Get your head right.

The Invincible Swordsman

04-19-2006, 10:12 AM

Am I living in some sort of Twighlight Zone? Has the world turned backwards or something?.......

A few teams were looking to pick him up this past off season because he defends well and can hit the three, you act like the guy came out of nowhere. The only reason that you didn't know about him is because he has been playing in Utah, a team that gets only a little play on tv.

1st of all, he didn't have range until he went to Utah and there he started even taking 3s. 2ndly he may only get a little play on national TV but I used to see him in every game. Know why?.... because I LIVE IN UTAH. Check the profile..... it's been saying Layton, UT for 6 years.... I actually should change it because I live in Kearns now, but still, I live in Utah.

Anyway..... I say him every stinkin' game. He didn't take a lot of shots and the ones he'd take were ill advised. He didn't drive or take the ball to the hole. He got his buckets in transition and off broken plays (steals and lose balls). Yeah he's a good defender. But that was it and that was his calling card. He was also very tough mentally. He was actually the team captain the year he was here and Sloan liked his mental toughness.

But he was NOT a scorer. No, nope, no friggin' way. Now he is to the tune of 15 a game. What was James Jones doing before he teamed up with Nash? Riding pine. Eddie House? Riding pine. Come on man...... Raja Bell is not a good player. He's a specialist. A defensive one. Now he's getting open shots and his confidence is increasing. Same with James Jones and Eddie House. Confidence makes ballplayers. After skill, it's the most important thing a player needs to ball. Come on man..... Can you seriously look your computer in the eye and say these guys are worth a fuck on any other team that doesn't have Nash at the helm?? These guys are scoring at clip that you would expect guys like Josh Howard and Jerry Stackhouse for Dallas. Like Eddie Jones, Mike Miller, Damon Stodamire, and Shane Battier. Like Antoine Walker, Gary Payton, and Jason Williams.

Are James Jones, Raja Bell, and Eddie House as talented as scorers as any of the guys I just listed? No. Then why/how are they scoring so many points?!

Yet the Lakers are only nine games behind the Suns. And AGAIN, it ain't like the Suns are ALL THAT just like the Lakers ain't ALL THAT. People here are talking like the Suns are about to win it all! They have just as much chance to do that as the Lakers. Either San Anton or Dallas will come out of that conference. So stop acting like you're comparing a piece of shit team to an elite team when you're talking what Kobe is doing and what Nash is doing.

DUH! But Nash's team is better than The Kobe because of what Nash does for his team as opposed to what Kobe does for his team.

Look.... all Kobe does is score. Yeah, he does it spectactularly but all he does is score. What makes him different from Carmello Anthony or Gilbert Arenas or Allen Iverson? So he scores a few more points than them...... big whoop! All these guys are doing is scoring. You don't win MVPs by scoring a bunch of points. The Kobe, Denver, Arenas, and Philly...... their teams are also-rans. But Phoenix has a better record than ALL OF THEM!!! Better than the Clippers who have a better roster, better than Milwalkee (better roster), better than Cleveland, NJ, Memphis (stacked roster), and Miami (SUPER STACKED roster).

Why? How can Phoenix win more games than these teams when they're starting Raja Bell and James Jones? It's simple..... because of the way they play. And how do they play? Run and gun. And who's the architect? Antoni. And who's the conductor? Steve Nash. Without him, they don't win more than Miami. And speaking of Miami, they have Shaq. And who did Shaq used to play with? Kobe. And what's Kobe been doing the past few weeks?

Praying NO/OK and Utah lose. This is your MVP? No. This 3rd/4th place material. Might as well put him with Iverson as far as I'm concerned. If your team doesn't win, then what good are you? Might as well put Ron Artest above him if you consider what he's done to his team.

This has been THE INVICBILE SWORDSMAN saying:

You know what?..... I forgot about how good a rebounder Kidd was. I'll give him that over Nash, too. But with the ball in his hands Nash => Kidd. Everything else is Ason.

jchensor

04-19-2006, 10:26 AM

I don't want to get into this mix, but I just wanted to say this about Kobe:

If you don't watch him for 82 games, it's easy to say "All he does is score." But if you do watch him for 82 games, you know he does so much more. Late in this season, he has learned to trust his teammates, and has been finding them a lot more often. And his defense is crazy. No one is faster to steals or to loose balls than Kobe. He frees up Odom and Kwame, recently, because they can't double them as long as Kobe is on the floor. And when is having a player who can practically guarantee a jump shot going in bad? How is that not valuable to your team, when all of your team is hitting a dry spell and Kobe is there to bail you out? Who wouldn't want that on their team?

I'm not arguing for or against Kobe for MVP. I personally believe it should be Kobe OR Nash, so I can't argue either way. ^_^ I'm just saying that it's absolutely RIDICULOUS to say "All Kobe does is score." Unless you are from L.A. and have watched every game, I don't wanna hear it. You have no basis for that statement otherwise.

- James

hihi

04-19-2006, 10:32 AM

Hunter D

04-19-2006, 10:38 AM

Again I will post up Bell's career stats. http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/playerS...tegoryId=71369
The guy is playing 9 more minutes a game. Bell's numbers have slightly improved this year, but his numbers have been improving every year. Bell scoring 3 more points a game can be attributed to the fact that he his playing more minutes per game.

I know he had no range before he went to the jazz, but the fact that he developed a 3P shot when he was in utah doesn't show you that he has been improving his game? Bell shot 37% and 40% when he was with the jazz. Those are very good 3PT percentages, you can't deny that.

As I have already said the suns front office and coaching staff have done an excellent job. They went out and got players that fit their system.

Edit: The only guy that has shown marked improvement as a scorer when playing with nash is Jones. Diaw scores most of his baskets by taking it to the rim. Nash has nothing to do with that. Diaw also runs alot of the suns plays. If anyone should win an award for the suns it should be the coach.

Cool-Breeze

04-19-2006, 12:22 PM

In all seriousness, in most or all the games, when the Lakers are down by halftime or in the 4th quarter, all you do is see Kobe vs <insert team here>. I see no trust in there at all in Kobe of his teammates. And yes, I have seen tons of basketball games ranging from Portland vs Atlanta to LA Kobes vs Phoenix.
For Phoenix, I see Nash making his teammates into above average scorers. Like in an analogy I've read earlier in this thread, replace Nash with Kobe in their respective teams and you would see Odom as an All-Star and Marion in Kobe's shadow. It's the truth.

And this is another good example of why Nash should get that extra vote over kobe.
Marion is top tier in my book but Phoenix a Playoff team without Nash or Kidd is a fantasy people GET FUCKING REAL. At least kobe has guys who have started else where but they suck just as well.
Raja Sucked in dallas as well, he was used for defense and ONLY MINOR defensive moments as well he aint Bruce Bowen guys.

Again I will post up Bell's career stats. http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/playerS...tegoryId=71369
The guy is playing 9 more minutes a game. Bell's numbers have slightly improved this year, but his numbers have been improving every year. Bell scoring 3 more points a game can be attributed to the fact that he his playing more minutes per game.

I know he had no range before he went to the jazz, but the fact that he developed a 3P shot when he was in utah doesn't show you that he has been improving his game? Bell shot 37% and 40% when he was with the jazz. Those are very good 3PT percentages, you can't deny that.

As I have already said the suns front office and coaching staff have done an excellent job. They went out and got players that fit their system.

Edit: The only guy that has shown marked improvement as a scorer when playing with nash is Jones. Diaw scores most of his baskets by taking it to the rim. Nash has nothing to do with that. Diaw also runs alot of the suns plays. If anyone should win an award for the suns it should be the coach.

How could nash have nothing to do with a 6'9 brother being open to go baseline all night and get in double figures?? Diaw did not do this WITHOUT NASH.
Diaw doesnt run alot of the SUNS plays Nash sets up, Diaw touches.
Nash over the years has realized when to shoot that jumper from the foul line and when to dish it, that is what makes him such a great floor general, when he is on the floor he commands hella attention. With out him or Amare the rest of the team seems to be garbage. True Marion is a threat but he cant Carry the team the way Nash does. They shoot to many jump shots, you really think without Nash ANY OTHER NBA team would leave those guys open to burn them all night?? Hellz no, Nash has opened it up for the TEAM to be more of a threat not just himself.

Kobe has not produced the ability to make HIS TEAM a feared opponent, No one changes there style of play on the defensive side of the ball when they play the lakers. And dont throw Kobe's scoring as an example because of course you HAVE TO D up the teams best scorer DUHHH.

And who the fuck had the nerve to use Kwame Brown as an example, you fucking faggot KOBE Jacks up mad shots Mihm and Cook were hurt at one time the dude's name with a T was out for like the whole year Walton just started getting serious playing time the last 20 games, you damn right he gonna get garbage points and fucking junkyard rebounds HE was the only big man down there for there team for a good part of the season.
Secondly JORDAN didnt make ANYONE on that wizards team better so quit using the "If Jordan cant do it no one can" Theme.
Kwame was a ROLE PLAYER in washington he was not a focal point so No he wasnt going to get 20 points 10 rebounds, as a matter of fact when have you EVER seen Jordan play with a legitament center and that ceneter be Mr.Double Double?? Kwame was all about being DEVELOPED for the future and Jordan didnt do shit to help it he berated that kid for his own fuck ups and its not his fault he wasnt ready, He was freegin 18 years old getting blasted by guys in there late 20's and 30's for not having the skills they already have, how was he supposed to build if everyone around him was tearing him down???

Kobe has not made the best of a bad situation in LA he has actually made it worse, Why you ask? Because next season you so called lakers fans are going to expect them to return to the playoffs, but you are also fogeting about the Western Conference teams who are currently gaining progress I have named them numerous times. How can they repeat this seaon next year if Golden State,Utah,Houston,Clippers,Timberwolves all play to the abilities like they did earlier this year BUT next time around do it for an ENTIRE SEASON.
Since Kobe hasnt addapted well with his team mates, he hasnt helped them move up there game so while everyone else will be playing to each others skill level and winning games as a team, the lakers will still be depended on KOBE.
He wont score 81 2 years in a row.

Richter85

04-19-2006, 02:40 PM

They shoot to many jump shots, you really think without Nash ANY OTHER NBA team would leave those guys open to burn them all night?? Hellz no, Nash has opened it up for the TEAM to be more of a threat not just himself.

Kobe has not produced the ability to make HIS TEAM a feared opponent, No one changes there style of play on the defensive side of the ball when they play the lakers. And dont throw Kobe's scoring as an example because of course you HAVE TO D up the teams best scorer DUHHH.

I dont' know what the hell you're saying about D'ing up Kobe. Every fucken team has a 'Kobe-stopper' or a plan to stop kobe when he's fucken hot. The sun have to switch everyone on their roster just to D up that Man, Kobe bryant.

You're saying thats not changing the defense around when they play the lakers?? You obviously dont' know basketball.

All I want to say ask is, when is the last time there's a "nash-stopper"???? Because he dont' need to be stopped thats why.

Truth be told, this so called "Floor General" can't do shit but RELY on his teammates. Yes its not voluntary. He throws out to his teammates cuz he got caught in the lane and can't finish because he's weak.

HaiDuongRiceMan

04-19-2006, 05:14 PM

Yeah, let Nash do all the scoring just like Dallas let him do last year. Worked out great.

Btw, I'm of the opinion that Avery Johnson has just as much to do with Dallas' improvement as much as Dirk does. Maybe more.

Mario Lemieux!

04-19-2006, 06:03 PM

ELABORATE PLZ.

Dirk apparently has a rock album coming out....he's signed under Jason Terry's record label.

I heard this during a Mavs game a couple weeks back.

GeoG2

04-19-2006, 06:16 PM

Geo your wrong about Kidd being THAT much better then Nash, Kidd isn't as quick as Nash, and Kidd can't shoot for shit.

Why do you guys keep mentioning this? It's already been established that Nash's shooting/scoring is the main thing he has over Jason.

To keep mentioning it is to bold the fact that it's all he has over him and nothing more.

Jason in his prime was faster then Nash.

Kidd also has Vince Carter and Richard Jefferson on the wings. The Nets should be running all night long, but that's the coaches fault. Kidd has taken on a dimisnished role this season as well. ( on purpose for the embetterment of the team ) Kidd is better defensively, but Nash has his team with a better record in the Western Conference.

Kidd doesn't have a diminished role. He's still doing his usual numbers. He was never a scorer to begin with.

The Nets can't run all day, their team isn't built that way. Those vets can't do it all game. They have two 7 foot centers in the starting lineup opposed to Phoenix using guards in the frontcourt. Big difference.

I said it before, I'll say it again... Nash is overrated. That offense was not built around him. He's a great floor general, but the offense amplifies his talents.

And anyone calling the role players bums is retarded... seriously. The offense made them... not Nash. Nash isn't responsible for Raja scoring a pullup three on the break while bringing it up, or Diaw getting triple doubles. Nash isn't responsible for Barbosa's good season, considering Nash isn't usually even on the floor when Barbosa is playing.

The Invincible Swordsman

04-19-2006, 06:31 PM

I dont' know what the hell you're saying about D'ing up Kobe. Every fucken team has a 'Kobe-stopper' or a plan to stop kobe when he's fucken hot. The sun have to switch everyone on their roster just to D up that Man, Kobe bryant.

Please...... All you have to do to stop The Kobe is to.......

#1 make sure the other losers don't do anything (which isn't that hard).

or

#2 Triple Kobe and DARE the other players to beat you,

All I want to say ask is, when is the last time there's a "nash-stopper"???? Because he dont' need to be stopped thats why.

Truth be told, this so called "Floor General" can't do shit but RELY on his teammates. Yes its not voluntary. He throws out to his teammates cuz he got caught in the lane and can't finish because he's weak.

You should just stop talking. Who gives a fuck about a Nash stopper or a Kobe stopper. You trying to DEFEAT A TEAM. What's tougher? Triple-teaming one guy and watching the other losers fuck up? Or praying the other Suns don't make shots? Because that's what it comes down to. I don't give a damn how good Kobe is, he's not good enough to beat a playoff team by himself. NOBODY IS. Not Jordan, not The Doc, not Bird, not Lebron, NOBODY.

You have no idea what "weak" is and you have no idea what the "truth" is. HELLO!!.....He's a point guard. What's his main job? To get other people involved. And as the star player, he's got even MORE responsibility to keep his teammates happy. I guess Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd have been "weak" all these years huh? You think Lamar Odom has been happy the way Raja Bell has been? Wow..... it's taken Odom all damn year to actually get the ball. He should be ecstatic! :rolleyes:

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

Here's a painfully irrelevant question for you......

Who would you rather play with? Kobe? or Nash?

Turtle Genocide

04-19-2006, 06:40 PM

who decides the league's mvp?

The Invincible Swordsman

04-19-2006, 07:00 PM

I said it before, I'll say it again... Nash is overrated. That offense was not built around him. He's a great floor general, but the offense amplifies his talents.

Come on now.... isn't that what EVERYBODY DOES? Hey look! Shaq is big, has great feet, and can't be stopped...... let's surround him with shooters and give him the ball in the post! Brilliant!

Hey look! There's Kobe! He's a great one-on-one player. I know! Let's just let him have the ball and do whatever the hell he feels like doing and take whatever hsot he feels like taking! Brilliant!

This is hardly a reason for him to be "overrated". Oh Look...... there's Tim Duncan! I've got an idea..... let's let him shoot 3s all day! Yeah, makes a lot of sense doesn't it?

And anyone calling the role players bums is retarded... seriously. The offense made them... not Nash. Nash isn't responsible for Raja scoring a pullup three on the break while bringing it up, or Diaw getting triple doubles. Nash isn't responsible for Barbosa's good season, considering Nash isn't usually even on the floor when Barbosa is playing.

1st of all, I don't know how you can say "the offense made them...... not Nash". When you just said "The offense is built around Nash". :confused: You just said it's Nash's offense..... now it's not run through Nash? The offense is not a seperate entity without Nash. Without Pistol Steve IT DOESN'T WORK the way it has. Oh sure, Barbosa can come in and make it look like the same without much dropoff. But come on now....... he's a bench player for a reason. He goes against opposing bench players. He also plays WITH Nash just as much as he doesn't. But what I'm saying is...... bench players can only do the damn thing for a while. It's like comparing Magic to Michael Cooper back in the day......

You see Magic would start and then Coop would come off the bench and spell him or Scott because he was versatile (like Barbosa). When he'd step in for Magic, the offense would run quite similarly to when Magic was running the floor. But, it would be against backups. Not to say Coop didn't do well.... but they were still backups.

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

If the offense is Nash's...... how can he not reap the benfits of it? :confused:

The Invincible Swordsman

04-19-2006, 07:07 PM

who decides the league's mvp?

The OWU media.

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

Which means Kobe has no chance in hell of winning.

Carpet Lint

04-19-2006, 07:10 PM

HOLD UP

EVERYBODY HOLD THE FUCK UP

Seriously, we need this matter to be cleared up more extensively first before we discuss anything else.

DIRK HAS A RECORD LABEL!?!

GeoG2

04-19-2006, 07:39 PM

1st of all, I don't know how you can say "the offense made them...... not Nash". When you just said "The offense is built around Nash". :confused:

[snip]

In what you replied to, I clearly said "That offense was not built around him"... so I don't know what you are talking about, TIS.

The offense is not a seperate entity without Nash.

Yes it is.

D'Antoni's setups and substitutions make that team. Of course you're not going to realize that. He won COTY while Nash got MVP, and you think it's all on Nash... but it isn't.

Nash isn't the reason those guys can shoot. He just knows how to setup them up to make them all threats. You take Nash out, you still have guys who will run and, and probably still blow out other teams out... just with less consistency.

I never debunked Nash's meaning to the team. I simply said he's overrated... which he is. Everyone wants to treat him like the best PG in the game now, and I simply don't see it.

As far as I'm concerned, there are a number of PGs who could step into that offense and produce the same results.

He also plays WITH Nash just as much as he doesn't.

Not true.

DanielLarusso

04-19-2006, 07:49 PM

Sorry TIS, Nash is overrated. Your last couple of rants do nothing but prove that.

He's good, but some of y'all acting like he King Midas, taking dudes who couldn't play there way out of the YMCA league and turning them into NBA stars. Give me a break. The hype has got you.

--

The Lakers need to be more worried about hollering at KG than they do about the playoffs this season. Yeah they made it, but they need another star to do anything with it.

donaldducktm

04-19-2006, 07:55 PM

HOLD UP

EVERYBODY HOLD THE FUCK UP

Seriously, we need this matter to be cleared up more extensively first before we discuss anything else.

DIRK HAS A RECORD LABEL!?!
CAN SOME PLEASE CONFIRM???????????????????????

Cletus Kasady

04-19-2006, 08:39 PM

I can't wait for Dirk's album to come out so we can start tiering NBA players musical careers (I'm willing to bet Dirk >>>>>> Kobe).

Mario Lemieux!

04-19-2006, 08:44 PM

CAN SOME PLEASE CONFIRM???????????????????????

So like...did you guys even read my whole post?

Dirk has a rock album coming out.

Dirk is signed under JASON TERRY'S record label.

Oh yeah, Dirk actually has a duet with Nash on one of his tracks.

That makes Nash MVP or at least co-MVP if Dirk ends up winning it.

EDIT:

Even got a link for you guys!

http://www.dallasobserver.com/Issues/2006-03-30/music/music_full.html

The Invincible Swordsman

04-19-2006, 09:01 PM

TGC

04-19-2006, 09:33 PM

Swordsman for MVP

DanielLarusso

04-20-2006, 12:45 AM

All I know is he DESERVES the MVP. You wanna say he's overrated when it means nothing and with nothing to back it up? Go ahead and keep saying nothing. But I'm gonna shoot down EVERY SINGLE OTHER NOMINEE you wanna put in front of him, because none of them deserve it like he does. Can you honestly say that that starting lineup of Diaw, Marion, Bell, and Jones could get 53 wins with Jason Terry at the helm? With Tyronne Lue? With Jameer Nelson? With Smush Parker? With Allen Iverson? With Dwayne Wade? With Jason Williams? Chris Paul? Andre Miller?

If Antoni's offense is so boss...... how come Philly isn't getting 53 wins when they do practically the same shit with a more talented roster?

No. Nash is the best pg in league. I'll let you argue with me if you wanna say Chauncey Billups. Anybody else isn't taking this mess to 53 wins. Kidd's time has come and gone. He looks like Mark Jackson did when he played for Indiana. Good.... but his blazing speed and first step is almost completely gone. You're gonna be seeing him posting people up all the way downcourt in another year.

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

I may rant, but if it shuts up stupidity then I'm fine with that. It's what I do best in NBA and NFL threads.

Dude stop feeling yourself. You ain’t shut nobody up, and if you did, just cause people get bored of arguing in circles doesn’t mean the last fool typing “wins.” Everybody who was feeling Kobe before is still feeling him now, everybody who was feeling Nash before is still feeling him now.

If calling Kobe Bryant a strong MVP candidate this year – if not THE candidate - is stupidity, then you just called the top players in the league stupid. And I think they know a little more about basketball and what it means to be an MVP in the NBA than you or I.

Shawn Marion, Steve Nash’s TEAMMATE, was on Quite Frankly tonight and he wouldn’t even say Nash was the MVP. He said he’s an MVP caliber player, but he said HE HIMSELF is an MVP and the Suns could not win without HIM. The only other name that came out of his mouth for MVP was Kobe Bryant.

That goes to SHOW you how good Shawn Marion is – as far as he is concerned, Phoenix is no good without HIM. He reached to give Nash props. Now do you think for a SECOND, that Lamar Odom – the Lakers “second best player” thinks HE is an MVP candidate?

Shawn Marion isn’t even ready to claim Nash the best player on his own team. Lamar Odom KNOWS who the MVP of his team is. THAT’S the disparity in talent Kobe is dealing with. Nash has Marion, a guy who thinks of HIMSELF as the MVP. A guy who was an All-Star before he played with Nash. NOBODY on the Lakers has ANY DOUBT who their MVP is. NOBODY on the Lakers besides Kobe has even gotten TICKETS to an All-Star game, much less played in one.

Give Kobe a talent like Shawn Marion. Give Kobe an All-Star. See if they can’t get “53” wins. Shouldn’t be too difficult, seeing as they got 45 with just Kobe.

Put Steve Nash on the Lakers and put Kobe on the Suns. Give Steve Nash Lamar Odom and give Kobe Shawn Marion.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12397481/
Bryant’s average is the eighth-highest in history, and his 2,832 points rank seventh on the all-time single-season list. The only players to score more points in a season are Wilt Chamberlain, who did it five times, and Jordan, who did it once.

Amazing. But any time somebody does something good, niggas come out the woodwork to discredit him. “He’s jacking up too many shots.” “He’s selfish.” Dude scores more points in a season than every NBA player in history except TWO, and niggas got something to say about that.

It ain’t going down like that. Averaging 35 points ain’t nothing to be ashamed of. Dropping 81 points ain’t nothing to be ashamed of. Leading a team of never-will-bees into the playoffs eight games over 500 in the toughest conference in the league ain’t nothing to be ashamed of.

AGAIN, it ain’t like the Suns are “elite.” They are better than the Lakers, but I don’t want to hear it come out of another person’s mouth that their roster is comparable to the Lakers. Stop dissing Marion. Ain’t NOBODY on the Lakers like him. You need TWO stars to do things in this league, the Suns HAVE that. The Lakers have ONE star. It ain’t cause Nash made Marion into a star. FUCK THAT. Marion was ALREADY a star. That dude would slap somebody upside their head if they told him he’s good because of Nash. Marion can go TO ANY TEAM and be a monster. That’s the type of player he is.

Ask a Lamar Odom if he thinks he’s the MVP, as Marion thinks he is. And see if he remembers the question once he stops laughing.

Richter85

04-20-2006, 01:21 AM

What's tougher? Triple-teaming one guy and watching the other losers fuck up? Or praying the other Suns don't make shots?

Isn't that the same fucken shit? Lakers triple team Nash when he's in the paint and pray his teammates fuck up. Suns do the same. Whats ur Point????

You should just stop talking. Who gives a fuck about a Nash stopper or a Kobe stopper.

WHY is there a Defensive player of the year award then?????

I guess Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd have been "weak" all these years huh?

Magic usually shoots the clutch shots when it counted. IE. the sky hook in the lane vs the Celtics. Yes he passes, yes he makes his teammates better. But at the same time He knocked the shots when it counted. That's why he is MVP.

Jason kidd did not knock down clutch shots thats why he was never MVP. HE's weak, like Nash. Nash being the wuss that he is passes to someone like RAJA BELL when the game is on the line.

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

Here's a painfully irrelevant question for you......

Who would you rather play with? Kobe? or Nash?

Kobe. Because when the game is on the line I know who to give it to. I don't wanna be stuck in a team with Nash because when its clutch time he plays hot potatoe with u, not basketball.

Nash is overrated. D'antoni for MVP.

Quantum Delta

04-20-2006, 01:32 AM

Amazing. But any time somebody does something good, niggas come out the woodwork to discredit him. “He’s jacking up too many shots.” “He’s selfish.” Dude scores more points in a season than every NBA player in history except TWO, and niggas got something to say about that.

It ain’t going down like that. Averaging 35 points ain’t nothing to be ashamed of. Dropping 81 points ain’t nothing to be ashamed of. Leading a team of never-will-bees into the playoffs eight games over 500 in the toughest conference in the league ain’t nothing to be ashamed of.

You're talking about "random people" discrediting Kobe? How about yourself discrediting Nash for leading a whole different roster minus Marion and without his main "go-to" guy Stoudemire to the top of the Pacific division? As TIS stated, insert any other point guard in the league and they won't do anything similar to what Nash does for Phoenix.

Also, as you suggested, you may replace Odom for Marion, but you know what would happen? Odom would be seen as All-Star caliber and Marion would be crying himself to sleep asking why he doesn't have someone like Nash.

AGAIN, it ain’t like the Suns are “elite.” They are better than the Lakers, but I don’t want to hear it come out of another person’s mouth that their roster is comparable to the Lakers. Stop dissing Marion. Ain’t NOBODY on the Lakers like him. You need TWO stars to do things in this league, the Suns HAVE that. The Lakers have ONE star. It ain’t cause Nash made Marion into a star. FUCK THAT. Marion was ALREADY a star. That dude would slap somebody upside their head if they told him he’s good because of Nash. Marion can go TO ANY TEAM and be a monster. That’s the type of player he is.

The Spurs of last year had ONE star and two up-and-comers last year. That's not neccessarily two stars, is it? Otherwise, I could argue that Odom is an up-and-comer.

Shawn Marion isn’t even ready to claim Nash the best player on his own team. Lamar Odom KNOWS who the MVP of his team is. THAT’S the disparity in talent Kobe is dealing with. Nash has Marion, a guy who thinks of HIMSELF as the MVP. A guy who was an All-Star before he played with Nash. NOBODY on the Lakers has ANY DOUBT who their MVP is. NOBODY on the Lakers besides Kobe has even gotten TICKETS to an All-Star game, much less played in one.

Not to discredit Marion or anything because I love the guy, but he had his chances with two other point guards, Jason Kidd and Stephon Marbury. I don't recall Phoenix getting past the first round with Marion and Kidd/Marbury.

You should think about that instead of pointing out Kobe's 81 points, 35 point average outweigh what Nash does for his team, unlike Kobe, who completely makes his teammates obsolete in crunch time.

GeoG2

04-20-2006, 03:00 AM

If Antoni's offense is so boss...... how come Philly isn't getting 53 wins when they do practically the same shit with a more talented roster?

Wow... you think Philly's roster is more talented then Phoenix? And Philly runs like Phoenix? Since when?

...

I haven't been around much lately, so I'm not sure on this... but can somebody tell me what happened to TIS? Did he fall on his head and recently come out of a coma?

Kidd's time has come and gone.

Kidd is averaging 13-8-7. How has his time come and gone? Because he's averaging one less assist?

jae hoon

04-20-2006, 06:15 AM

This shit reminds me of why I left the NBA thread in the first place. To many ignorant fucking people who watch the NBA on Sportscenter and think they know what they are talking about.

TGC

04-20-2006, 09:18 AM

Jason kidd did not knock down clutch shots thats why he was never MVP. HE's weak, like Nash. Nash being the wuss that he is passes to someone like RAJA BELL when the game is on the line.

Yea okay did you not watch last season when nash WAS mvp because if i recalled game 6 of west semi finals he did make a shot when the game was on the line that sent it to OT and the suns won and went to west finals, or are you just too busy ranting he's overrated?

Def1n1tely

04-20-2006, 09:33 AM

To many ignorant fucking people who watch the NBA on Sportscenter and think they know what they are talking about.

exactamundo...

people dont see the whole season... thats why i try not to hate on anything outside of the lakers and kobe (sometimes) cuz i know i may be wrong...

donaldducktm

04-20-2006, 09:50 AM

I don't know about you guys, but i'm anxious to see the playoffs this year. So many exciting teams playing against eachother, so many MVP candidates showing what they are worth, and most importantly....Kobe vs Nash for u guys arguing who deserves it or not. we'll see a glimpse of it...

and i raelly hope Lebron doesn't get the award this year, although it's a very good possibility that he'll win.

opticallyinviz

04-20-2006, 10:19 AM

nash should get it again but won't because he gets too much hate from sportswriters
he is the best shooter in the league, dirk used to be happy if he could beat him 1 out of 20 times playing horse.
ive played with steve on a few occasions, mostly at mational team tryouts n shit and everyday he'll do something you've never seen before.

he;s not like lebron and gonna throw down the sickest dunk you've ever seeb, but he will make a play that is amazing, every single game. and he makes the entire team infinitely better just because he's there.

if he and kobe switched teams the suns would miss the playoffs and lakers would be a contender

just readin the last few pages; i'd be willing to bet most of the guys are a.) in high school
b) never played any real ball outside of pickup games
and c) have watched very few nba games live

Hunter D

04-20-2006, 11:00 AM

You should think about that instead of pointing out Kobe's 81 points, 35 point average outweigh what Nash does for his team, unlike Kobe, who completely makes his teammates obsolete in crunch time.

This is a bad comparison right here. Antoni changed the offense to a more european style of ball when nash signed. Suns didn't have shooters before nash signed. Shawn marion was still developing as a player when the suns had Kid. Amare was not a20 and 10 guy in his first season when he played with Marbury and was injured most of is second year when the suns got rid of Marbury. Marbury also didn't play with shooters. Murbury and Nash aren't even the same type of PGs. Marbury has all the tools, but we all know that he is a shoot first player who thinks of himself as the first, second, and third scoring option on any team he plays on.

Iverson isn't a true point at all. Philly does not run the same offense as the suns. Iverson only passes the ball when he can't find is own shot, which is a big difference between him and nash.

You guys shouldn't even compare Kid to Nash because Kid lead the nets to 2 NBA finals. Nash has yet catch a wiff of the finals. Lets not forget that Nash learned alot from Kid when they were both playing for the suns.

Cletus Kasady

04-20-2006, 02:15 PM

I still think that if you took any upper echelon PG (excluding guys like Iverson/Arenas/anybody on NY who are basically small 2's); guys like Paul, Parker, Bibby, Miller (I would include Ridnour), and replaced Nash with them, they'd still win 50 games. And they'd be better defensively. And for the detractors of Kidd, keep in mind that Nash is over 30 and the only reason he's a Sun is because Mark Cuban considered it a bit of a risk to give a 30 year old with a bad back and no defensive prowess a 6-year contract.

Not to say that Nash isn't the best point guard in the league (even though he's just filling in for Chris Paul for another year or two), but it's not like he's the only guy who could make that situation work. BTW, my vote still goes to Lebron, although I'd lean towards Dirk after hearing his soulful ballads. :lol:

donaldducktm

04-20-2006, 03:09 PM

Swordsman for MVP
DanielLarusso for MVP....heck, i don't even care anymore....i concur what jae hoon just said....

The Invincible Swordsman

04-20-2006, 03:45 PM

Wow... you think Philly's roster is more talented then Phoenix? And Philly runs like Phoenix? Since when?

Like.... virtually all year. They run at all times possible and many times take the first shot available. Their defense also sucks and they can't rebound worth a damn.

Kidd is averaging 13-8-7. How has his time come and gone? Because he's averaging one less assist?

His speed is almost gone. He doesn't beat anybody off the dribble like the used to. He stil has awesome vision and can still thread the needle. But his speed and ESPECIALLY his first step ain't there anymore. He can't even drive by guys like John Salmons and Devin Brown.

Isn't that the same fucken shit? Lakers triple team Nash when he's in the paint and pray his teammates fuck up. Suns do the same. Whats ur Point????

The point is, teams have been trying to do that against Nash and IT HASN'T WORKED! Do that to The Kobe and it will all day long.

If calling Kobe Bryant a strong MVP candidate this year – if not THE candidate - is stupidity, then you just called the top players in the league stupid. And I think they know a little more about basketball and what it means to be an MVP in the NBA than you or I.

Shawn Marion, Steve Nash’s TEAMMATE, was on Quite Frankly tonight and he wouldn’t even say Nash was the MVP. He said he’s an MVP caliber player, but he said HE HIMSELF is an MVP and the Suns could not win without HIM. The only other name that came out of his mouth for MVP was Kobe Bryant.

Are you serious? Am I supposed to be impressed with this? Ron Artest thinks the Kings are the best team in the NBA and said so himself on ESPN. Are we supposed to take that seriously too? artest said he thinks they're the better team. Am I supposed to take that seriously too?

Shawn Marion isn’t even ready to claim Nash the best player on his own team. Lamar Odom KNOWS who the MVP of his team is. THAT’S the disparity in talent Kobe is dealing with. Nash has Marion, a guy who thinks of HIMSELF as the MVP. A guy who was an All-Star before he played with Nash. NOBODY on the Lakers has ANY DOUBT who their MVP is. NOBODY on the Lakers besides Kobe has even gotten TICKETS to an All-Star game, much less played in one.

So irrelevant it makes me cry.

Give Kobe a talent like Shawn Marion.

1st of all, don't say "talent". People have been waiting for Odom's "talent" to emerge all year. "Talentwise" he has triple double skills. Marion does not. What you mean to say is.......

Give Kobe a "player/baller/consistent player" like Shawn Marion.

Give Kobe an All-Star. See if they can’t get “53” wins. Shouldn’t be too difficult, seeing as they got 45 with just Kobe.

Put Steve Nash on the Lakers and put Kobe on the Suns. Give Steve Nash Lamar Odom and give Kobe Shawn Marion.

Here's the thing....... I don't know how you can say Marion would get the points/touches he would get with Kobe given Kobe's history of being a riotous gunner. You've seen The Kobe play right? How many times has Kobe come down the court and pulled up for a 3 before anything got set up? How many times has he dribbled and run around 3/4 picks before finally finding a small crease and getting fouled? How many times has he penetrated and tried to make an acrobatic shot (which we'll make more times than not) and get fouled?

In many of these situations, no one is touching the ball but Kobe. In how many of these situations is the ball getting passed around the perimeter after drawing a double team? How many times is Brian Cook just standing at the 3-point line waiting? Lots of times these guys don't even move anymore. They just stand there and watch Kobe because they feel like the ball's not gonna go their way anyway. You can see Nash will get ANY player the ball no matter his stature or talent (hence James Jones and Eddie House getting 10 a night). All they have to do is be open. So Kobe will only give the ball to someone who's an All-Star? Wow..... that's great. Must suck to be everybody else then huh? And I'm STILL not sure Kobe would even give the ball to another All-Star. He wouldn't give it Shaq before Shaq left. What's to lead you to believe he would do otherwise? Where is the precedence?

Kobe is a great one-man show. So is Gilbert Arenas. So is Allen Iverson. What is supposed to seperate him from these guys? 2 more jumpers?

Kobe. Because when the game is on the line I know who to give it to. I don't wanna be stuck in a team with Nash because when its clutch time he plays hot potatoe with u, not basketball

And you're just running your mouth. You either have never played even a pickup game of basketball or don't even believe what you yourself are saying and just wanna keep the conversation going. "Because I know who to give it to".... wow. that's great...... if you're a little pussy who doesn't believe he can do anything on the court and probably shouldn't be there in the first place....

"Oh no! What am I doing here?! I'm not supposed to have the ball! You want me to dribble?! AAHHHHH! Here Kobe, SAVE ME!!" *passes the ball to Kobe and dances away like a little fairy-boy*

And what if the game's NOT on the line. Like.