CvS2 - Top Tier vS. Low Tier

[BusterWolf]

I dont want to seem like I have a millioon threads but I thought this thread would be important for CvS2 players...The topic of how "Top Tier" just dominates low tier is very debateable..Chars like Vice..Terry..Yamazaki...Kim..Yuri..Athena..etc are underrated but good..Post your ideas on what u consider top or low tier and why...also if u play with low tier chars what about your playing style makes them good....Thanks and post away!!!

-Dr.B:cool:

[dogberry]

Well I'm like the only serious Maki player where I play. She's a fun character and I like her but she seems like it takes a lot of work with her to compete at a tournament level. I think a good turtle can easily break her and that she needs a lot of trickery and mind games to win. But she can run away really well and if you manage to get a lead in health it makes her fights a bit easier since you can run all day and try to bait the other guy to come to you. Right now I'm trying to figure out some setups for that OTW grab of hers and seeing if a Tiger Knee'd air command grab can actually be useful.

I haven't had a chance to use her in a tournament situation yet but when the next tourney comes around I hope to do well with her.

Any other Maki players out there?

[Laostyle559]

wow i don't think i've seen ANY serious Maki players, but more power to ya man...

about the top tier, low tier. it doesn't make a difference where the character is in rank, if u r good with a character, u r good. that's it, i've seen vice whoop sagat's butt.

i guess i'm a low tier kina player because a lot of the people i play are in your low tier category. I think the outcome of matches comes down to your style of play and how good you are with a character, i'd like to see athena beat blanka, haha. but yah, the top tiers aren't top tiers unless there is a good player behind it. and a low tier can be a top tier if a good player is behind it. that's all:D !

[FMJaguar]

Originally posted by BusterWolf
I dont want to seem like I have a millioon threads but I thought this thread would be important for CvS2 players...The topic of how "Top Tier" just dominates low tier is very debateable..Chars like Vice..Terry..Yamazaki...Kim..Yuri..Athena..etc are underrated but good..Post your ideas on what u consider top or low tier and why...also if u play with low tier chars what about your playing style makes them good....Thanks and post away!!!

-Dr.B:cool:

What ARE you talking about? Yamazaki was practically top tier, everyone should have seen BS from Terry, athena, and Kim by now. Who is underrating them? much less saying low tier lol.

[WYLDFYRE]

the whole tier system on cvs2 is too complicated to actually rank characters accurately. but there are characters that do have a definite tier, i.e. blanka, sagat, etc. the thing about cvs2 is that is gives the player so many options, that certain characters in certain grooves will have a different rank than if used in other grooves. also, now that rc'ing is being used more and more, there is no definite use for a tier system, since anyone can be top tier with an rc move.

anyway, i like to use the "low tier" characters. like king, yuri, dhalsim, ryo, and chang. i am really starting to put together really good teams using these people, since most people have trouble against them since no one uses them much, thus, they have no experience against them. actually, i wouldnt call them low tier, since the way i play them, they are actually mid tier. i would just call them, unpopular. well, unpopular where i play, i dont know about where you play so dont get all crazy if its the opposite for you.

[BusterWolf]

FMJaguar: I know he's top tier but some people consider him mid or low tier....I likle using "low tier" chars myself like someone said no one know what they got...so it's a good advantage..I'd like to see a real good Kyosuke emerge..lol that would be tight..He's pretty good with roll cancel...

-Dr.B:cool:

[Laostyle559]

i kno someone with a good kyosuke...
his ID is SSF2T... he's won many a times with S-groove Kyosuke
and S-groove Dan 2

[SEbastard]

Chang is top tier. He has a counter for just about any situation. The only trouble really is fast characters like noko, or vega....etc. It is easy to get scared, and start making mistakes, because his moves are so much slower.............but this is nothing that jumping away, and busting on them with choi can't fix.

[Yumi Saotome]

I think CvS2 is one of those few games where all characters are playable...but some just have bigger inherent weaknesses than others (Vice gets KILLED by Bison, for example) Even Kyosuke and Dan are useable; I've used Dan many times to beat people down :D As long as you have a working, viable strategy with some character, then it allows him to be playable.

I also think people give Kim way too much credit. He is good, but not great. I used to play Kim a lot, but many painful lessons against SiN has taught me that Kim has too many flaws for me to play him against top level competition. The only thing Kim can do to be competitive, IMO, is Roll Canceled axe kicks.

[jchensor]

I use Maki in serious competition. I used her at Evolution. ^_^ Maki is hella good once you get used to her and learn all her tricks.

Tiers are really hard to say for this game, mainly because all characters are protected by the Ratio System. I mean, how bad is ANY character if they are grouped with Blanka and Sagat? As long as you can make that character somewhat annoying, they will always be usable on a team.

But even when you consider 1 on 1, most characters in this game are viable. I agree completely with Yumi that Dan is actually not a bad character. But Kyosuke, I still have no hope for. ^_^ I would have to say that about 3 characters fit in the highest tier, a good number fit in the top tier, everyone else is in the playable tier, and then there's Kyosuke.

Don't mean to offend any Kyosuke fans out there. ^_^ But I just can't seem to find any hope for that character... :-(

- James

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

I think kyosuke is acctualy fairly decent.

[MuziKal]

I wouldnt go so far as to calling them low tiers.Maybe there just very advanced characters.Just like grooves any character can become a force to reckoned with(TOKIDO'S YUN at evolet us rembember that at first p-groove was seen as an awful groove,but it really wasnt awful in fact its the best groove in my opinion,it just takes A LOT more practice and diligince to master.As for Kyosuke he isnt that bad of a charcater,hes pretty descent.

[Judgment Day]

Originally posted by jchensor
I use Maki in serious competition. I used her at Evolution. ^_^ Maki is hella good once you get used to her and learn all her tricks.
- James

I remember this...You even played one of the Japanese players with Maki and held your own.

Going into Evolution, quite naturally you're going to see some of the top rated characters (Team Cammy Blanka Sagat), but surprisingly, I saw a good diverse amount of characters used in CvS2 regardless of what tier they were. Chensor used Maki, I used Vice, Cole used Dhalsim, and of course Ken's Ratio 1 Yun. I'd say 80% of the roster in CvS2 was actually used at Evolution, with a good chunk of those teams played was the player's "tournament calibur" team. And some of those characters did very, very well.

I do think a lot of these characters in CvS2 have more potential than we give credit for.

[cheese_master]

I think most characters are usable. You just have to have incredibly good knowledge of your character. Aside from Sagat and Blanka to alot lesser extent... I don't see other characters on another playing level. I mean Cammy and Bison are both good... but they just don't have the sheer advantages that Sagat and Blanka do.

I mean look at Sagat... even tho roll canceling hurts his game so drastically... he still is #1 in the game. Blanka is retarded because... its not that he is sheerly naturally as good as Sagat... he is just a play on your reflexes. You have to be fast to fight Blanka... like his low jumps games and his crossup/electric setups as well as know his tricks. Once you get a hang of reacting quickly vs Blanka... it becomes easier to fight him... but that don't drop him from top 2.

[Ryu1999]

Originally posted by BusterWolf
FMJaguar: I know he's top tier but some people consider him mid or low tier....I likle using "low tier" chars myself like someone said no one know what they got...so it's a good advantage..I'd like to see a real good Kyosuke emerge..lol that would be tight..He's pretty good with roll cancel...

-Dr.B:cool:

the people that consider him mid-low tier obviously haven't been cheesed to death by yamazaki. i don't think i've ever hated a character more in cvs2 except vega (claw). roll->super, as you demonstrated pretty well at EVO against KSK (you are Dr. B right?) is still an integral part of the US game :p and Yamazaki has the best roll mixup game out of the whole cast....DAMN HIM. no matter what i do, i get owned b/c of his throw "priority" and his st. rh

[Mummy-B]

By any chance, would anyone know how to do a part of that ridiculous Level 2 super, run stop, combo, run stop, combo etc with Maki in that hypnotic XYZ video?

I know one time he super cancells the Level 2 into a run and stop and the guy is still caught in hitstun animation so he can keep going, but it sure doesn't look like MEM uses the Final Fight chain of hers.

jchensor certainly plays some rogue characters man... especially at the place like Evolution, more power to you for it though, as with anyone who used "rogue" characters. I didn't realize so many characters were used there, I am happy to hear so many different characters were used.

[BusterWolf]

Yeah IMO Yama is mos def Top Tier....U throw his on a team with other fun and good chars and thats a recipe for a hot ass whoopin....His RS (Roll-Super) Owns at a good range...I like Yuri but it's real hard to bring her up to high comp level without having to play extra hard..who knows I might bust her out at EVL03..lol

-Dr.B:cool: Aka Brandon C.

[Judgment Day]

Originally posted by Mummy-B
By any chance, would anyone know how to do a part of that ridiculous Level 2 super, run stop, combo, run stop, combo etc with Maki in that hypnotic XYZ video?

I know one time he super cancells the Level 2 into a run and stop and the guy is still caught in hitstun animation so he can keep going, but it sure doesn't look like MEM uses the Final Fight chain of hers.

jchensor certainly plays some rogue characters man... especially at the place like Evolution, more power to you for it though, as with anyone who used "rogue" characters. I didn't realize so many characters were used there, I am happy to hear so many different characters were used.

I think the only characters that didn't get used in tournament play (That I didn't see) was Dan, Kyosuke, Yuri, Raiden, King, and surprisingly Rock. That's not to say they weren't used, as I didn't look at 100% of the tournament. Too busy playing GGXX at times :)

Plus, I would say that among the grooves, N-Groove was used the most. A-Groove came in 2nd, followed by C-Groove, K-Groove, and P-Groove, in that order. C, K, and P were very close throughout, though...Not a single person that I saw played S-Groove...Sorry S-Groove players. :(

I tried Maki months ago, and she seems to have a very high learning curve. Props to anyone running the table with her. Where is this XYZ video?

[dogberry]

Hey jchensor, how do you use Maki's off-the-wall kick/grab moves? To me that off-the-wall grab is just REALLY hard to land. Even setting the opponent up for it seems like a lot of work. And is there actually a use for tiger-kneeing that air command throw of hers?

[jchensor]

Chikyuu used Raiden in CvS2. ^_^ So even Raiden as used. I'm pretty sure I saw a Rock. And I'd be surprised if no one used Kyosuke. He's, like, a crowd favorite now. ^_^

As for Maki, her Off the Wall moves, for me, are mostly limited to the Jab (jump off the wall) and the Short (drop straight down) versions. I'll use the grab one in hte corners, when people try to get in on me while I'm running away a lot. ^_^ I do the Short Off-The-Wall drop a lot, and people try to move in closer, so I can get them with the Throw occasionally. I almost never use the Kicks (Forward and Roundhouse) though I probably should learn to incorporate them more.

My game comes mostly from the Jab and Short off the wall moves and her Running in both directions and instant Overhead Running Attacks (do Fireball + Forward, Roundhouse... roll fingers from Forward to Roundhouse and you can do an Overhead Running attack instantly without running at all). I basically bait people into getting annoyed with the fact that she runs away a lot.

Oh, and I use the KKK Ditch Move a lot, even though it hurts me. Worth it, in the end, to break momentum of the enemy.

- James

[Edma]

RC run, stop, grab. Maki is now top tier.

[Mummy-B]

Originally posted by Judgment Day

I tried Maki months ago, and she seems to have a very high learning curve. Props to anyone running the table with her. Where is this XYZ video?

It's at gamecombos.com, it's second in the HARVEST series of combo videos my Mr.MEM. The editing is pretty screwy and messes with your head.

But MEM does a C Groove super cancel where uses combos into the Level 2 punch combo super, super cancels it, dizzys the opponent, builds up another level, Level 2 again, and finshes the combo with a command run kick throw. In total, it was 27 hits. I can't figure it out because the screwy editing, maybe you can do better.

If you know him, tragic was the first person with it, so if you can't find it at gamecombos.com, he'd probably know where it is.

[FINAL SHOWDOWN]

about the maki combo If you have aim i can send you the real combo. (minus effects so you can see whats happning.)

[selfscience]

Originally posted by Judgment Day


I think the only characters that didn't get used in tournament play (That I didn't see) was Dan, Kyosuke, Yuri, Raiden, King, and surprisingly Rock. That's not to say they weren't used, as I didn't look at 100% of the tournament. Too busy playing GGXX at times :)


well at evo, maybe around the 3rd or 4th round in the goldbracket, i played this guy who used level 1 king and level 3 sagat (or was it blanka....fuck i cant remember), so king was used. i messed him up though...

[Master Yen]

On the sign-ups day of EVO, i saw a guy use S-Groove Athena against Viscant. Torwards the end he kept doing her Lv1 Shining Crystal Bit to Crystal Shoot for like 20seconds. Too bad he lost :( .
It still drew a crowd however.

One thing I noticed, A-Groove and RCing make characters very good in some cases (i.e. Tokido's E. Honda:lol: and Ken's Yun :D )

By the way, JChen, about how long before you revert to your original, XvSF, A-groove self? I'm still waiting :p

[UltraScrub]

Originally posted by Master Yen
On the sign-ups day of EVO, i saw a guy use S-Groove Athena against Viscant. Torwards the end he kept doing her Lv1 Shining Crystal Bit to Crystal Shoot for like 20seconds. Too bad he lost :( .
It still drew a crowd however.


That was probably Peachy. Apparently he did the same in the tourney againts Chikyuu.

[Gandido]

Actually, I used Kyosuke in my first CvS2 match in A-Groove. He was a decent battery, and I actually won that match. Improvistation custom that shit!

Edma: OUCH. RC Run xx quick stop, wtf can you do against that? I think you can even bust a level 3 then 360 and you're fully invincible. Or activate if you played A. :)

[jchensor]

Originally posted by Master Yen
On the sign-ups day of EVO, i saw a guy use S-Groove Athena against Viscant. Torwards the end he kept doing her Lv1 Shining Crystal Bit to Crystal Shoot for like 20seconds. Too bad he lost :( .
It still drew a crowd however.

One thing I noticed, A-Groove and RCing make characters very good in some cases (i.e. Tokido's E. Honda:lol: and Ken's Yun :D )

By the way, JChen, about how long before you revert to your original, XvSF, A-groove self? I'm still waiting :p

Haha. ^_^ Yeah, I played A-Groove for a while, but missing Custom Combos is too annoying. ^_^ I'll stick with my Cross-up Short, Lightning Kick, Crouch Jab, Crouch Strong into Level 1 Super into Super Jumping Roundhouses with Chun Li. ^_^

Seriously, without Low Jump and Running, I feel so lost these days. :-(

- James

[Master Yen]

Well, your Morrigan was proper. If I remember correctly it was whiff Run Cancelled MK or RK (changed sides) to Darkness Illusion:cool: Did you RC in that match, i can never tell?

[Dasrik]

Yuri is yummy.

[BusterWolf]

Out of the shotos who do u guys think is the best??? IMO it's Akuma cause he can punish real nice after cross ups and RC red fireball owns u up...After that I'd say Ryu..Ryo,,then Ken..just cause I'm weird like that Lata ....

-Dr.B:cool:

[Master Yen]

I say Ken. He's Quick easy and straight to the point. Average everything but sacrifice's zoning for close range combat. RCing his Kick Variations=Hilarious :lol: His rushdown is damn good too.

After that, its a tie between Gouki and Ryu. They have to be played right to be effective. Its a style thing.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

where is zangief and rock in the mix of things? like....how high up are they in tiers?

also....does anybody have any videos of when somebody good used some k-groove in Evolution2002?

[BusterWolf]

IMO Zangief is low or mid tier....I'd say Rock is a defenite mid tier...

-Dr.B:cool:

[Judgment Day]

Originally posted by 50mOrEcEnTz
where is zangief and rock in the mix of things? like....how high up are they in tiers?

also....does anybody have any videos of when somebody good used some k-groove in Evolution2002?

Although very brief, they do have a quick explanation as to Rock's incarnation in CvS2 on the link below. This is especially important if you remember people talking about how good he was going to be when the CvS2 betas were out.

http://shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9098&highlight=Rock

[Yumi Saotome]

Originally posted by jchensor


Haha. ^_^ Yeah, I played A-Groove for a while, but missing Custom Combos is too annoying. ^_^ I'll stick with my Cross-up Short, Lightning Kick, Crouch Jab, Crouch Strong into Level 1 Super into Super Jumping Roundhouses with Chun Li. ^_^

Seriously, without Low Jump and Running, I feel so lost these days. :-(

- James

Whoa, that sounds like a cool combo...and it sounds hard :p Maybe I'll x-copy that instead of doing crouch jab x2, into crouch strong...

Yes, Raiden was used. Chikyuu's Raiden is not as legendary as many people think it is though...as shown in my first game with him (darn it, I should've beaten him!) where I was destroying him with C groove Bison. You just have to be wary of the fact that he has about a billion setups to land his 720, and it's impossible to learn them all (my favorite was his meaty low roundhouse into 720...that takes skill :eek: ), so you have to CONSTANTLY pay attention to anything that even remotely looks like a setup. I forgot that fact, and he screwed me over the second game :(

I saw a King, and a Kyosuke player at Evol...nothing spectacular though. No Yuri or Dan players though...maybe I should take them up.

[jchensor]

Originally posted by Master Yen
Well, your Morrigan was proper. If I remember correctly it was whiff Run Cancelled MK or RK (changed sides) to Darkness Illusion:cool: Did you RC in that match, i can never tell?

Morrigan is just Flying (Running in SNK Grooves) Forward (crosses-up and turns around if needs be), Crouch Short, Crouch Fierce into Raging Demon Super. You have to be fast, though.

And I never RC'ed at Evl2k2. I didn't practice RC's enough to use them with any confidence at Evolution.

- James

[BusterWolf]

Originally posted by jchensor [/i]
And I never RC'ed at Evl2k2. I didn't practice RC's enough to use them with any confidence at Evolution.

- James [/B][/QUOTE]


Yeah Jchensor I wasnt using RC at evl either..just baSIC moves and combos now and then maybe a rc kick dust with Yama...It's all about ol' sku strategy..lol

-Dr.B:cool:

[J-ride]

One of my favorite characters in CVS2 is ken, I think its so much fun playing C-Groove ken. I play A-groove sometimes, but without a shadow I have a hard time keeping my customs going.
I love canceling the level 2 supers! :) If I hit a meduim kick into shoryureppa and I whiff, I cancel into a fireball or a tiger knee huricane kick and go flying to the other side of the screen! hahaha If I connect I will tag a hurricane kick on the end right when the super is about to end for more damage! I also play Cammy, not so much cuz she is a high tiered character, but I learned how to play her years ago and I just really like her. I play a different kind of Cammy though, I throw at least 5-10 times a match. It drives people crazy! Then I will also throw some Balrog or Blanka in thier for fun. I like to piss people off with the blanka. I started using blanka cuz I couldnt beat sagat easily with ken so I have a sagat killer! Another reason I like ken is that Ryu is good but I always get air parried when I dragon punch, so I use ken because very few p-groovers can pary 2-3 hits. I do think ken is the strongest Shoto in this game though, because he has two ways of getting past projectiles, has an antiair super that isnt a level three, he also seems a bit faster than the other two.

[BusterWolf]

I'm starting to play Athena..from what I see in most Athena players they make her look hella "dry"..I want my Athena Teleporting all over the place..Dash air kicking like a maddman..Psyhco balls..and plenty of Down Hp...lol..I just need some other nutty chars to put on a great show...!!!

-Dr.B:cool:

[Chunli89]

If I hit a meduim kick into shoryureppa and I whiff, I cancel into a fireball or a tiger knee huricane kick and go flying to the other side of the screen! hahaha If I connect I will tag a hurricane kick on the end right when the super is about to end for more damage!

You're indeed the biggest idiot i've ever known. You can't cancel a lvl2 super into anything if it's WHIFFED. SO if you're whiffing your shoryureppa, you can't "tiger knee hurrican kick and go flying to the other side". nor could you "cancel into a fireball".

and if it connects, why the hell would you cancel it into a hurricane kick? cancel it into a jab roll.

Ken has two ways of getting around projectile? what's so good about that? most of ppl only need one way. either roll or parry. or jsut jump up to avoid it. or just block it for god's sake. or just do a fireball on your own. or just....whatever. you're so stupid.

shinryuken's anitair. so what? lvl1 shinryuken is as useless as lvl1 shinku. it's fucking stupid.....

if you think ken's good because your local P players can't air parry multi hits(god help them), please, please please.....go home and think about how ridiculous you sound.


god, you make me sick to stomach...please, go home and think about what you posted on srk. and get the fuck off line so you don't waste other ppl's space.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

where is zangief tier wise, and what do yall think is best groove is. im more of a MvC2 player but so i don't bother to take the time to get good in roll cancelling but i am a hell of a k-groover. at any rate, i just want to know where is zangief in the mix of things, tier wise

[Big Rex?]

silly n00bs top tier fuck low tier

[zuggzugg]

Its all about geese.

[SEbastard]

Tiers are myths, they change as the game changes. Some characters do more damage, etc....but there are ways around it. Just ask anyone that didn't know until recently that Barlog (boxer) "ownz sagat 4 free"

[Thongboy Bebop]

Originally posted by zuggzugg
Its all about geese.

True Dat. Ratio 4 K-Groove Geese. Rockin' the Box.


N

[BusterWolf]

Level 3 or 4 Cammy owns ur soul....and has ur boxers hangin on a line..lol

-Dr.B:cool:

[Orochi Pickle]

how does balrog the boxer own sagat for free?:eek: is it just cause of his long fierce punch??? what else makes him soo good against sagat?

Jesus loves you all with an everlasting love.:D

-Pickledude-

[SEbastard]

Originally posted by Orochi Pickle
how does balrog the boxer own sagat for free?:eek: is it just cause of his long fierce punch??? what else makes him soo good against sagat?

Jesus loves you all with an everlasting love.:D

-Pickledude-

His standing fierce punch cancels sagats ducking fierce, and standing fierce.(the two main things that *most* sagat players use)..........and if timed correctly, his startup animation on throwing a fireball..............also logs of rush pressure, he pretty much has to use some well timed uppercuts to counter barlog.

Now before people start up with their usual bullshit, this is not in every situation.....etc...blah, blah, blah. Cause I soon expect to see either..

some shit about roll canceling.

someone saying It must be against scrub ass sagat players.

someone challenging me to come and play barlog against their sagat, and they will "owz joo 4 free"...

or some other such bull shit.

Anyway, I am just saying that I have no fear against sagat with balrog, like I may with other characters. I may still lose to some people with their sagat, but that has more to do with the fact that they play really well...........which can be said about any character no matter how "high" or "low" tier they are according to people.

[BusterWolf]

Balrog over all can beat Sagat based on reach alone..and his drill super level 3 on missed moves...But a good defensive Sagat can beat him..as long as he doesnt over rush down...it really comes down to a player on player situation..

-Dr.B:cool:

[SEbastard]

Originally posted by BusterWolf
Balrog over all can beat Sagat based on reach alone..and his drill super level 3 on missed moves...But a good defensive Sagat can beat him..as long as he doesnt over rush down...it really comes down to a player on player situation..

-Dr.B:cool:

exactly. It matters mostly by player. I know a ton of people that I can jack up their best character, with my worst character...........people put too much importance on tiers.

[Orochi Pickle]

Balrog's Fierce punch can outreach and beat sagat's fierce punch what about his standing mk or crouching i think that would be able to stop alot of balrog's standing fp because it is faster so it would take it out of animation. just a thought what do you say shiftyeye guy?

Jesus loves you all with an everlasting love and is just a prayer away.:D

-Pickledude-

[HaohmaruOfWind]

I think Yuri is rather top tier.I've seen her beat very good players at my local arcade.She is in my main team of Haohmaru,Yuri & Athena.I can beat anyone else in my local arcade using her.Even masters of Marvel vs capcom 2 bow to the power of "Mrs.ass".
Her flying ass hit saves me alot.Some guy beat me in MvsC 2 easily then he played me in CvS and I beat him easily 3 times using only Yuri during the fights.

Haohmaru is the toppest tier because he can counter hard slash few times and win that way.I like using his super slash combo to get dramatic ko's destroying 75% of my opponent's life.I can beat the bosses very easily with him.No offense Omega Rugal and shin akuma fans.

The lowest tiers in my opinion are the streetfighters except for ryu,chunli and ken.I usually defeat blanka,balrog,zangief,dhalsim etc pretty easily.I beat Iori using Haohamru once when the timer reached only 919.Iori is overrated.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Originally posted by HaohmaruOfWind
I think Yuri is rather top tier.I've seen her beat very good players at my local arcade.She is in my main team of Haohmaru,Yuri & Athena.I can beat anyone else in my local arcade using her.Even masters of Marvel vs capcom 2 bow to the power of "Mrs.ass".
Her flying ass hit saves me alot.Some guy beat me in MvsC 2 easily then he played me in CvS and I beat him easily 3 times using only Yuri during the fights.

Haohmaru is the toppest tier because he can counter hard slash few times and win that way.I like using his super slash combo to get dramatic ko's destroying 75% of my opponent's life.I can beat the bosses very easily with him.No offense Omega Rugal and shin akuma fans.

The lowest tiers in my opinion are the streetfighters except for ryu,chunli and ken.I usually defeat blanka,balrog,zangief,dhalsim etc pretty easily.I beat Iori using Haohamru once when the timer reached only 919.Iori is overrated.

i hope your other 34 posts weren't this stupid

:lol:

[Orochi Pickle]

thats so hilarious please dont stop talking haomaru i love it, good switch. but really not to dump on your team of doom yuri isn't top tier but she isn't horrible a girl, at golfland someone uses her for fun and does decent, i was able to beat it pretty easy since i play the comp and that is how the computer played but he got me a couple times.

[Orochi Pickle]

thats so hilarious please dont stop talking haomaru i love it, good switch. but really not to dump on your team of doom yuri isn't top tier but she isn't horrible a girl, at golfland someone uses her for fun and does decent, i was able to beat it pretty easy since i play the comp and that is how the computer played but he got me a couple times.

-pickledude-

[NerenatwaH]

I was thinking, how would Sakura be placed in Tiers if her RCed hurricane kick had been exploited?

I've never tried anything with it, but Im guessing it'd be good because it's a short fast move, and you can combo into it. So it'd be like rc lk.tatsumaki->s.lp->etc->rc. lk.tatsumaki.

can anyone test this for me?

and just her RCed tatsumaki in general?

[HaohmaruOfWind]

I meant top tier as in against the computer.I don't like playing with people.I already won second place in a chess tournament 4 years ago(when i was 15).My second place chess championship is on the top of my computer holding desk as we speak.

[BusterWolf]

What's people's opinion on chars like Terry,Todo,Ryo,Benimaru
Yun, where are they on the tier list and if anyone says they are low or top tier why?...Just thought I'd keep things moving cause this topic never stops due to the game always changing and of course the cheap RC lol....

-Dr.B:cool:

[Thaininja]

Originally posted by HaohmaruOfWind
I meant top tier as in against the computer.I don't like playing with people.I already won second place in a chess tournament 4 years ago(when i was 15).My second place chess championship is on the top of my computer holding desk as we speak.

every character is top tier against the computer, the computer is the worse player out there......

[FMJaguar]

The tiers against the computer would be the same tiers as against humans

[Thaininja]

Originally posted by FMJaguar
The tiers against the computer would be the same tiers as against humans

well what i meant by with the AI everyone is top tier meaning that i can win against the computer with most characters.....

but playing against AI and humans are different

AI's dont learn, and can get beaten with repetitious patterns
AI can do a walking forward sonic boom....

[Igatona]

In my opinion, Terry is very very good. Maybe not top-tier because he doesn't have a lot of abusable tactics (to my knowledge...if you know some, SEND ME SOME! :D ), but fairly decent. Especially against Airborne opponents.

If you're crouching and the opponent seeks to cross you up (if cross-ups are what I remember, it'll work, otherwise...I just talked shit again), Rising Tackle that shit!

The Power Dunk can also jack up an opponent quite well, just don't use it against any character that's on the ground and has any sort of anti-air availiable.

The Crack Shoot can be almost tossed at random, ALMOST.

The Burn Knuckle is a nice way to knock an opponent's that's about to fall on the ground, plus, it's got a lot of priority.

His fireball is nice to toss at random except against a P or K-Groover. Though it's not wise to fireball-war with this.

We could get into his supers, but you know their usefulness, I'm sure.

For the record, the rest of my team is Rugal and Haohmaru.

[BusterWolf]

Its all about S and C Dan...He's so garbage that if u fight good with him he's actually fun...another low/mid tier I think is real fun is Dhalsim he is Super zone style just keep away 100% and I love it...

-Dr.B:cool:

[BusterWolf]

A good team I saw recently was team fat boy....Chang..Zangief..Raiden..And believe it or not it was doing damage...just goes to show it's the player who runs the chars...

-Dr.B:cool:

[BusterWolf]

Any good Maki players out there??? And if so what are some good strats that u guys use to beat "top tier" like Sagat,cammy,blanka..etc....Thanks..

-Dr.B:cool:

[SEbastard]

Originally posted by BusterWolf
Any good Maki players out there??? And if so what are some good strats that u guys use to beat "top tier" like Sagat,cammy,blanka..etc....Thanks..

-Dr.B:cool:

I just started playing her. Not that great with her yet though. She has the potential to be a really great character...........only problem is that your reflexes have to be as good as the computer. I dig playing her though..........if I can make chang playable, then anything is possible =)

BTW, you going to folsom for wednesdays tournament? word on the street (fighter messageboard) is that there is going to be some alpha 3 going on.

[Scamp]

Originally posted by BusterWolf
A good team I saw recently was team fat boy....Chang..Zangief..Raiden..And believe it or not it was doing damage...just goes to show it's the player who runs the chars...

-Dr.B:cool:


Dude, come on. Zangief isn't that fat. Team Fat Boy needs to replace Zangief with E.Honda.

And, for the record, maybe some people place too much emphasis on tiers, but only a moron or an inexperienced player will think they can beat someone else because their character is a higher tier. Also, tiers aren't based on individual matchups, so a lower tier character might actually be a tougher fight than a higher tier character in certain cases.

And, of course, tiers don't mean jack if you suck at the game.

[No defence]

Originally posted by BusterWolf
Any good Maki players out there??? And if so what are some good strats that u guys use to beat "top tier" like Sagat,cammy,blanka..etc....Thanks..

-Dr.B:cool:
Sure. You should take a peek a the Maki thead. Might find some interesting "tacts".

[caliagent#3]

there are no tiers in this game

[FOBio]

alright, well, i play this game, but don't know a lot about it. what's rc?

anyways, i use terry, akuma, nakoruru, mai (for fun), king, and rock.

who is considered top/low tier? i know you people say that it depends on the player, not character. but i know there's still somewhat of a ranking. oh, and i use blanka too, but i know he's considered good.

and i use c groove, just cuz i don't know what the best groove for me is. is this an alright one, or is it too basic and i should expand?

thanks for your help

[BusterWolf]

Fobio: C groove is a great and good groove to use...U have Level 1-3 supers...Air block ...Alpha counter ...and level 2 super cancels to regular special moves or level 1's...It's great for chars like Blanka...Also look into a groove with run like N...I would also recommend S because it's so damn fun,....If ya need anything else holla back I or good players out here will help ya...no prob...

-Dr.B:cool:

[rallykupo]

When based on skill, there is no tier, but there is a major tier difference if u just base it on characters. I think i usually pick high tier characters like bison, geese, vega, and gief. But i sometimes use hibiki and rock, but thats not normal for me. My usual team is a K groove bison, geese, and vega on 2, but sometimes i replace bison for hibiki or rock.

to answer fobia question, akuma does high tier damage with the lowest tier damage taking i think..., to make up for his speed and damage i guess, terry and rock are mid, king, mai and nakoruru are low. I think terry's damage might be mid-high though. I don't know, some of the characters are a little off like akuma and vega. But vega fulcuates. I think he starts with high tier damage and mid defence, but drops one level when he loses his mask and claw.

But again, like everyone says, character tier doesn't mean shit when it comes down to player vs player. Although it does come into play sometimes. Like i saw 2 people play, 1 guy with ratio 1 chun li and the other with a 1 rugal. Chun li kicked his ass for almost the enitre match and clearly knew what he was doing more then the rugal player, but rugal won in the end. the rugal player got some lucky kicks in, and then over powered li when he caught the chun li player with the rugal bomb into a level 2 kick super, eye beam thing, then a level 1 kick super in the corner.

So, even skill at times isn't enough to over come the tier difference at times. Well, i guess i'm done contradiction myself...

[bison812]

I think as some of the ppl have said some characters are over look. By the sagat cammy and the blankas not saying they arent good but i like honda and i really like him i think most ppl sleep on his skills and i saw ohinuki use him(correct me if im wrong) and i was quite please with his preformance. Honda can be use very effectively in serious play. Ive use him and ive given players that love sagat and blanka a hard time. As James stated mostly anyone can be good if team up with Sagat and blanka:D

[rallykupo]

Hey, for the team that u use, try out A groove. All the characters u use, except for maybe king, i never really saw some one use her in a groove, are good in A. All your characters have good customs like terry, mai, blanka, rock, Akuma (especially), and nakouru. It takes time to get them down properly, but mai has a easy one to do. But if u can get akumas and blanka's down, then you can kick some serious ass because their customs are extremely strong.

I'm not so sure the C groove is the right one for your team except for terry and blanka. If A groove is too hard (well it is for me..., thats y i use K) then go for N. You characters are mostly low tier so the enhanced damage stocks would help u out a lot. Plus, akuma need a run.

[Who]

Okay I'm confused to whether there is a real tier ranking on cvs2 for it's characters. I searched for one and all I got was a thread where people listed there opinion on tier rankings. Is there one that everyone pretty much agrees upon?

According to some other people's tier rankings I use almost all lower tier characters. Eagle, Rolento, Mai, Geese for the most part are lower tier in most of the tier rankings. Not that it matters to me....in my opinion my best chars are mostly lower tier.

I do have another question.... When playing say A-groove what can you do to get a rushdown character off of you. If you were playing any of the characters listed above?

[caliagent#3]

there are no tiers in this game . . . for example people say blanka is top tier . . . how could he be top tier when u can counter all of his moves with a short or jab? everyone is on the same level in this game and that's becuase of the different grooves. if there were no grooves or parrying then their would be tiers. THe different grooves rule out the existence of tiers in this game.
people also think that sagats c.fp is the greatest thing in the world, which it isn't, for very obvious reasons which i will not get into, but the bottom line is there are no tiers. MVC2 has tiers, not CVS2

[Ouroborus]

Originally posted by caliagent#3
there are no tiers in this game . . . for example people say blanka is top tier . . . how could he be top tier when u can counter all of his moves with a short or jab? everyone is on the same level in this game and that's becuase of the different grooves. if there were no grooves or parrying then their would be tiers. THe different grooves rule out the existence of tiers in this game.
people also think that sagats c.fp is the greatest thing in the world, which it isn't, for very obvious reasons which i will not get into, but the bottom line is there are no tiers. MVC2 has tiers, not CVS2

you are playing the wrong game, now shut the fuck up

[CoolWater]

:lol:

[rallykupo]

Well, i don't know who told u, but Geese is definitly high tier. And Eagle and rolento are mid. Geese does way to much damage to be low and he takes damage a little better then a low tier character.

Umm..., i have the same problem against rush down a groovers like akuma. But, when i get to my ratio 2 vega, i can usually make a good come back because hit and run works well. I think u just have to counter. If they use shotos (or any other quick rushers) to rushdown, then do a DP or a rising tackle (if u happen to pick a character that can) right when u get up. Most people start jabbing at u before u even get up and Rising moves like the DP win out everytime. U can even do a super as u get up, supers win out too. When they get smart and wait till u get up to jab, then just take the jabs and counter hit them. N and C grooves work well against rush down characters too because they have the counter hit abilty. You know, -> + mk+mp.

You not should fear the rushdowners anyways, the best ones like akuma take a shit load of damage in return so u can beat them easily if u can counter, u just have to reconize attack pattern.

Oh..., and i know i talk about tiers and shit alot, but i personally feel that its the skill of the player. But sometimes its hard to say that when u see a ratio 2 chun li kick ratio 1 rugals ass, but still loses because rugal got about 4 lucky shots and in, and those shots were enough to win while chun li controlled the match and out hit rugal 3 to 1. Well, done contradicting myself again.

[erco]

Originally posted by caliagent#3

people also think that sagats c.fp is the greatest thing in the world, which it isn't, for very obvious reasons which i will not get into, but the bottom line is there are no tiers. MVC2 has tiers, not CVS2

lol, you won't get into it because you can't.

c.fierce is too useful in too many situations, that's why sagat's so good. why use jab, when c.fierce is almost as fast and does like 10x more damage.

also, Rolento is definitely high tier. He's too mobile and too versatile to not be considered anything below the top of the 2nd tier.

again, also, to guy who keeps on talking about high tier rushdown and low tier damage taking. That's crap. Tiers are not defined by those things, they are defined by how well a character matches up compared to each other, it's a system of ranking amongst characters. So, saying Akuma takes low tier damage is retarded. Yes, he takes a lot of damage, but, there are plenty of low tier characters that don't take damage like Akuma.

[erco]

Originally posted by HaohmaruOfWind
I think Yuri is rather top tier.I've seen her beat very good players at my local arcade.She is in my main team of Haohmaru,Yuri & Athena.I can beat anyone else in my local arcade using her.Even masters of Marvel vs capcom 2 bow to the power of "Mrs.ass".
Her flying ass hit saves me alot.Some guy beat me in MvsC 2 easily then he played me in CvS and I beat him easily 3 times using only Yuri during the fights.

Haohmaru is the toppest tier because he can counter hard slash few times and win that way.I like using his super slash combo to get dramatic ko's destroying 75% of my opponent's life.I can beat the bosses very easily with him.No offense Omega Rugal and shin akuma fans.

The lowest tiers in my opinion are the streetfighters except for ryu,chunli and ken.I usually defeat blanka,balrog,zangief,dhalsim etc pretty easily.I beat Iori using Haohamru once when the timer reached only 919.Iori is overrated.


omg, this has got to be the most retarded post I've ever seen. Whoever this person is should be banned from SRK for pure idiocy.

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Originally posted by caliagent#3
there are no tiers in this game . . . for example people say blanka is top tier . . . how could he be top tier when u can counter all of his moves with a short or jab? everyone is on the same level in this game and that's becuase of the different grooves. if there were no grooves or parrying then their would be tiers. THe different grooves rule out the existence of tiers in this game.
people also think that sagats c.fp is the greatest thing in the world, which it isn't, for very obvious reasons which i will not get into, but the bottom line is there are no tiers. MVC2 has tiers, not CVS2

i THINK what he is trying to, or hopefully, trying to say is that the degree of the tiers aren't as bad as the degree of tiers in MvC2. i do disagree....and i believe there are tiers, but i mean shit; u can't say it is to the same degree as MvC2, because MvC2 is just ridiculous with that shit (spelling?)

[rallykupo]

Yeah, that guy contradicts everything he says like me. If he didn't saying anything about high and low tier, then it would make sense because it would be a good arugment that tiers don't exsist and its the skill the counts. Sounds like he is saything that speed determines tier. Although that would make a good argument as well...

Oh, i didn't say anything about high vs low tier rushdowners, what i siad is for all characters in general. I just used akuma as an example because he is one the best rushdown characters and because kicks my ass all the time and i get sick of those damn akuma users in Pinball arcade i go to. Plus if u notice, i never used the word tier once when i talked about rushdown characters. I only stated tier in the begining and at the end when i took everything back.

Well, in terms of tier, i think of it as how well a character takes and deals damage, which is pretty much how charactes are compared anyways in the top and low tier ranking system if u think about it.

[Ouroborus]

Originally posted by erco



omg, this has got to be the most retarded post I've ever seen. Whoever this person is should be banned from SRK for pure idiocy.

lol, that guy is so stupid i shed a tear laughing my ass off.

infact thats gonna be in my sig.

[FOBio]

alright, well, still got some input...

i played against this dude who was sagat (ratio 1) and akuma (ratio 3).

i was blanka, akuma, terry (ratio 2)...on c groove.

this dude was seriously kicking my ass. blanka and akuma died because of sagat. but i was able to beat him with terry...taking a few hits too. so it was terry v. akuma. even with the higher ratio, and i think better skills, i was able to beat my opponent.


don't know if that has anything to do with the price of rice in china, but hey, couldn't help but add some input. i guess akuma does take hits pretty badly.

[KaiSing]

Originally posted by Ouroborus


lol, that guy is so stupid i shed a tear laughing my ass off.

infact thats gonna be in my sig.

Yeah, he wasn't any different in the "Top Tiers of Other Fighting Games" thread. And if you thought that was bad:


I meant top tier as in against the computer.I don't like playing with people.I already won second place in a chess tournament 4 years ago(when i was 15).My second place chess championship is on the top of my computer holding desk as we speak.

ummm... okay. That was random:confused: :rolleyes: :confused:

[Ouroborus]

Originally posted by KaiSing


Yeah, he wasn't any different in the "Top Tiers of Other Fighting Games" thread. And if you thought that was bad:



ummm... okay. That was random:confused: :rolleyes: :confused:

lol, yay for chess!

[caliagent#3]

what i'm saying is that there are no tiers at all in this game . . . The only reason why that is so is becuase of parrying . . . most people would say Dhaslim is low tier, and y would they say that? becuase they don't know how to play him. hell i don't know how to play dhaslim but in the hands of someone who does he is very dangerous, i've witnessed it first hand. Recently i've been kicking people ass with my "low tier" Dan. The truth is he really isn't low tier, it's just that most people don't know his moves and don't want to play him becuase he has a weak fireball and his dragon punch isn't as good as ken or ryu. Dan is actually a really good character. his qcb+wk has priority over many moves and he has the best jumping short i've seen. nak has the best jab in the game and the list goes on for other char., this game has no tiers, everyone has a fair chance at winning. And by the way Sagats crouching fierce is not that great. many people have been whining about it for a while but i find it to be one of the most punishable moves. ANd another thing, Blanka isn't that hard to beat either, jumping short or jumping jab beats out 95% of his moves. SAVE TIERS FOR MVC2, that's where they belong.
oh yeah ourobus, suck a dick until u hiccup:lol:

[redwiz]

Originally posted by caliagent#3
And by the way Sagats crouching fierce is not that great. many people have been whining about it for a while but i find it to be one of the most punishable moves. ANd another thing, Blanka isn't that hard to beat either, jumping short or jumping jab beats out 95% of his moves.
:lol:

[caliagent#3]

the crouching fierce isn't that reliable, i always punish people when they try to do it. it's so predictable, once u pick sagat i already know u r gonna try to abuse c.fp so then i'll cross u up with Ken and then combo or use my super, very simple. Same with Blanka, just jab that bitch to death, :D

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Originally posted by caliagent#3
what i'm saying is that there are no tiers at all in this game . . . The only reason why that is so is becuase of parrying . . . most people would say Dhaslim is low tier, and y would they say that? becuase they don't know how to play him. hell i don't know how to play dhaslim but in the hands of someone who does he is very dangerous, i've witnessed it first hand. Recently i've been kicking people ass with my "low tier" Dan. The truth is he really isn't low tier, it's just that most people don't know his moves and don't want to play him becuase he has a weak fireball and his dragon punch isn't as good as ken or ryu. Dan is actually a really good character. his qcb+wk has priority over many moves and he has the best jumping short i've seen. nak has the best jab in the game and the list goes on for other char., this game has no tiers, everyone has a fair chance at winning. And by the way Sagats crouching fierce is not that great. many people have been whining about it for a while but i find it to be one of the most punishable moves. ANd another thing, Blanka isn't that hard to beat either, jumping short or jumping jab beats out 95% of his moves. SAVE TIERS FOR MVC2, that's where they belong.
oh yeah ourobus, suck a dick until u hiccup:lol:

he said some things that were smart and some things that were stupid, so i can't decide which side i should take

[caliagent#3]

if u ever come to New York come to Stony Brook University, u will see so many people play "low tier" characters, and after we beat your ass with them we will pick "top tier" char. and murder u again . . .then u will see that there is no tiers in this game . . .i'm guessing that many of you haven't really seen top level play, becuase if u have then u would know that there are no tiers, but you are entitled to your own opinion as well as i am, so go ahead and believe that their are tiers, hey it just might help u lose quicker . . . i played this guy last night with my k-groove dan, he said "ooooo i'm so scared of Dan", i was like okay you'll see, and about 2min. later the guy lost, why u ask?, becuase he believed in tiers. . . . he already had it set in his mind that Dan sucks so his cockiness made him lose, but anyways i'll leave you all to your tier discussion, lmao:lol: :lol: :lol: i like coming to read this thread it's so funny to hear about this tier shit:lol:

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Originally posted by caliagent#3
if u ever come to New York come to Stony Brook University, u will see so many people play "low tier" characters, and after we beat your ass with them we will pick "top tier" char. and murder u again . . .then u will see that there is no tiers in this game . . .i'm guessing that many of you haven't really seen top level play, becuase if u have then u would know that there are no tiers, but you are entitled to your own opinion as well as i am, so go ahead and believe that their are tiers, hey it just might help u lose quicker . . . i played this guy last night with my k-groove dan, he said "ooooo i'm so scared of Dan", i was like okay you'll see, and about 2min. later the guy lost, why u ask?, becuase he believed in tiers. . . . he already had it set in his mind that Dan sucks so his cockiness made him lose, but anyways i'll leave you all to your tier discussion, lmao:lol: :lol: :lol: i like coming to read this thread it's so funny to hear about this tier shit:lol:

i mean i agree with you to a certain extent but i mean you can't say that all of the characters are fairly equal. can you? i mean sagat's c.fp isn't a godly c.fp. (like athena c.fp) but i mean u said blanka was easily beaten by jabs and shorts because they beat out 95% of his moves, i would be shocked if a jab or short took him out of his moves if they are roll cancelled.

[caliagent#3]

u just gotta play smart. blanka isn't the only person that could roll cancel, everyone can (i know u know that), so that puts all characters on a level playing field. Now if only 5 char. could roll cancel then i would say that there are definately tiers in this game but that's not the case . . . everyone can roll, dodge, parry, counter movement, counter, and so on depending on the groove u use. Now the only reason y i would say that most people think there are tiers is becuase they haven't used everyone in the game and in all the grooves (i have personally). After doing that i found that every player has a chance at winning, especially Dan, the most underated player in the game. That's y i'm not so surpised anymore when people lose to him, he is slowly becoming a regularly used player in the game. i've beaten so many people with him that my opponents treat him the same way they treat my ken . . .and yes athena's c.fp is very good

[50mOrEcEnTz]

Originally posted by caliagent#3
u just gotta play smart. blanka isn't the only person that could roll cancel, everyone can (i know u know that), so that puts all characters on a level playing field. Now if only 5 char. could roll cancel then i would say that there are definately tiers in this game but that's not the case . . . everyone can roll, dodge, parry, counter movement, counter, and so on depending on the groove u use. Now the only reason y i would say that most people think there are tiers is becuase they haven't used everyone in the game and in all the grooves (i have personally). After doing that i found that every player has a chance at winning, especially Dan, the most underated player in the game. That's y i'm not so surpised anymore when people lose to him, he is slowly becoming a regularly used player in the game. i've beaten so many people with him that my opponents treat him the same way they treat my ken . . .and yes athena's c.fp is very good


thats purty interesting, and after reading i have a question for you. i use k-groove purty dayum well i think; and have found four people that i think are good k-groovers (rock, geese, gief, and sagat; yes, i know im not the first to notice this), but i just wanted to know some other good k-groovers, it seems like it takes away from a lot of people. if you could give me a list of other good k-groovers it would be GREATLY appreciated.

[rallykupo]

Yamakazi
E Honda
Vega
Raiden
Cammy
Hibiki
And pretty much any character that can be used well in P groove can be used here too like guile, kim, and even maki. But the best i think would be Yama, E Honda, Gief, Rock, Sagat and Geese.

There are some more but i can't really think of any right now. I became K groover just recently. My usual team is,

Geese, sometimes rock or hikiki at ratio 1
Bison, ratio 1 or 2
Vega, ratio 1 or 2

I know that bison isn't actually the best for this groove, but he is my best character so i use him anyways. But, even though K isn't considered his best groove, bison is still pretty good here..., rushdown always helps.

[BusterWolf]

CaliAgent is crazy for thinking there are no tiers...dont get me wrong "low tiers" can be just as good as "Top Tiers" it just depends on the player and groove...Like K anyone usually is good depending on if u can JD and what not...Just like Grooves ..any groove can be top tier it depends on if a top tier player is backing them up..even S groove...Peeps think it's silly but there is something behind playing S it's different..anti-RC..and good rush down...So CaliAgent your points are good but dont be ignorant to the truth..The K dan story was nice but come to Kali trying that and it would be alot harder trust me...GL to u..Peace....

-Dr.B:cool:

[erco]

god caliagent, you're so very wrong on so many levels.
the only reason you have these opinions is because you've never played anyone who knows what they're doing. There are definitely tiers in the game. Why play dan when sagat does everything dan does, but better (err, aside from suicide super and taunting).

anyways, as Seth killian put it, "you can't lead a scrub to water."

[Akuma_APN]

I play with Kim all the time. His stealth and range can make him nearly invincible. I don't know why people think he is low tier, I wholeheartedly disagree. He is best in a groove that allows rolling, because since he has no projectiles, it is quite befitting of him to roll past a barrage of projectiles. His moves come out of a roll very well. Many people I fight against love to jump or run in, followed by several taps and ending with a projectile. If you wait on it, Kim can roll out just as the projectile stance is in its beginning frames, rendering the opponent helpless to your wake-up move. I'm sure this is true with several cvs2 characters, but from my experience, Kim's wake-ups out of rolls are faster than other characters'. I think he has been much improved over his CvS 1 counterpart, and he is now one of my favorites.

[Dr.B]

I have been playing with Yuri alot and she's good against Cammy and other small/ girl characters...She's becoming more and more played other places I go too....

-Brandon:cool: