Tolgata's guide to kicking Duolons ass

[loffter]

Duolon is cheap. you know it, the person useing him knows it, and the people telling us to stop crying about top tiers know it. but your gonna see him used by the higher ranks, your gonna see him in tourniments.... your gonna see him. it sucks, i know. but thats life. however, after thrashing numerous duolons with the following tactics, i can firmly say they are effective.


ok, to start with, duolons moves are very, very, VERY slow, with the exception of his jab.


now then, first and formost, duolon doesnt have a solid anti air, and his airial attacks all have a downward arch, makeing jumpy people very effective against him. you can basicly just jump the entire match and throw out high priority moves from above him, like with mai or malin, and there isnt much he can do. that is NOT gonna beat him though.


the killer on duolon is his teleport. its what makes him deadly. it puts him right beside you on either side, and its tough to tell which side. the trick with this move is its got a large startup and a small amount of recovery. keep in mind, this is duolons ENTIRE game, because he has no other way of getting in... his roll is slow as hell, its too easy to throw him out of it.

now then, lets put all this together. i will admit, im about to tell you to pick counter charecters. if you have a charecter you LOVE and i dont list them, tell me and ill work on a strategy. im devoting a bit of study to killing this ***.


King: this is my favorite charecter in 03. shes too good. she can also beat duolon easily. how? very simple, her jump is higher than his. if you jump befor, at the same time, or even slightly after, her jumping C will beat everything hes got. if duolon tries to teleport on you to get in, wait a split second after you see the startup frames, then do a standing D. if you time it right, they will connect, and you get to land her B&B (which for those who dont know is , :snkd: , :df: + :snkd: , :hcb:+:snkd:
also note that her :qcb: X2 :snkd: super can have the same effect. when you see him teleport, activate and boom, you got him. his teleport is easy to see, especially in the nearly non-exsistant lag online. thats the basic strat for king vs duolon: jump when he jumps and punish the teleports.


Billy: my second favorite charecter. billy has one thing going for him in this match: his :snka: mashing move, where he spins his stick. its very simple to win this fight. bait a teleport from ol duo, then mash on :snka:. he will get stuck in the middle of the move for an infinate. thats it, its over. if for some reason the move stops befor duolon dies, he should be at low enough health where it wont make a diference. just keep duo grounded with :hcb: :snkb:, and wait for that teleport.

Ryo: keep duo grounded, and wait for the teleport. if he jumps, DP him. if he teleports, you have 2 options. 1 is to do a :hcb: :snkd: to get the hell out of there and maybe hit him, or try to throw him. i wouldnt recomend anything else. your strategy is a damn good game of keepaway.


Iori: just low kick. low kick constantly. if he teleports the low kicks will hit on recovery and then you can B&B. if he jumps, DP his ass. i cant think of a reason why you should ever get hit, unless its chip damage from a random super.


Mai: mai should just do jumping :snkd: all day. dont stick to a corner, bounce over and under him, whatever. stay in the air and it shouldnt be too tough. be smart about jumping though, dont jump and land in his face or your fucked.


K: ground his ass any way you can and then do the K mixup. hey, they are useing Duolon, so you have permission to be cheap.


thats all i know right now. there are probly many ways to beat duolon, but thats all i know for now. so if you happen to notice your oponent useing duolon, pick one (3 of if you are proficiant with them) of these charecters and mop his face for him. that is all, and you are welcome.


if you want me to work out a strat for a specific charecter, let me know. but i will tell you that Whip, Malin, and the grapplers are all bad matchups against duolon and should be avoided when faceing him.

[Cybuster]

To comment on your Billy suggestion...his rapid-A staff twirl isn't a true infinite. It stops at around 50 hits or so, in my experience. Perhaps my finger is just too slow, but if not, well. Still, it'll do a good 30-50% damage, so that's a big chunk of the battle right there. So it's still a fairly good idea.

[loffter]

and really, people who use duolon want to win. so after you use that 2 or 3 times and they realize they cant get in on you, they will stop useing him, and you win the war.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Technically if Duolon is attempting to:
1. Hit you with any attack on the ground at close/poke range that is not c.A/B
2. not superjump at you at fullscreen if he jumps(he does have a higher jump than most think, and all he needs is j.B-D or just j.D for air BS)
3. randomly teleport when it's not part of a 50/50 post juggle mixup
or
4. not do nothing but random toetaps at fullscreen for relatively free chip

Then you're playing a Duolon that doesn't know exactly why he's so stupid.

Your strats are also rather narrow-minded, as Duo has enough options that he doesn't need to do random teleport to get in. What are you going to do with King if he's just hovering outside of your s.D and B Tornado Kick range?

Duo's c.A beats Iori c.B, or whatever the hell you're proposing there. Hell, some people forget some of Duo's other moves like s.B, Rekkas at max range(which are a decent poke in itself), and rdp+K(the from the sky kicks) which trades almost always in his favor.

Mai's j.D is not that godly, and all it takes is you landing anywhere midscreen for him to get a free toetap as you land. And he can always run under her and c.B XX Duo BS, since there's no tripguard.

Ryo I dunno what you're thinking, outside of psychic far Cs and psychic DPs you're not beating Duo on the ground. He doesn't need to leave the ground to deal with most characters.

As for Billy, it's more of who gets the first hit honestly. And once again, you're relying on random teleport to win. Refer back to my 4 indicators at the top.

K' Mixup? You speak of the unblockable? Other than that K' isn't scary at all on wakeup.
And I wonder if you've played JPN Duos yet, or if you've only played XBL(honest question, not meant to burn). DDxxx teams are TOO strong in this game. Who you use to beat Duo here also lose bad to Daimon.

IMHO, from what I've seen in top level play and from personal experience, Duo has earned his rank, and the only way you'll beat Duo is if you're actually better than the player using him.

[loffter]

Technically if Duolon is attempting to:
1. Hit you with any attack on the ground at close/poke range that is not c.A/B
2. not superjump at you at fullscreen if he jumps(he does have a higher jump than most think, and all he needs is j.B-D or just j.D for air BS)
3. randomly teleport when it's not part of a 50/50 post juggle mixup
or
4. not do nothing but random toetaps at fullscreen for relatively free chip

Then you're playing a Duolon that doesn't know exactly why he's so stupid.

Your strats are also rather narrow-minded, as Duo has enough options that he doesn't need to do random teleport to get in. What are you going to do with King if he's just hovering outside of your s.D and B Tornado Kick range?

Duo's c.A beats Iori c.B, or whatever the hell you're proposing there. Hell, some people forget some of Duo's other moves like s.B, Rekkas at max range(which are a decent poke in itself), and rdp+K(the from the sky kicks) which trades almost always in his favor.

Mai's j.D is not that godly, and all it takes is you landing anywhere midscreen for him to get a free toetap as you land. And he can always run under her and c.B XX Duo BS, since there's no tripguard.

Ryo I dunno what you're thinking, outside of psychic far Cs and psychic DPs you're not beating Duo on the ground. He doesn't need to leave the ground to deal with most characters.

As for Billy, it's more of who gets the first hit honestly. And once again, you're relying on random teleport to win. Refer back to my 4 indicators at the top.

K' Mixup? You speak of the unblockable? Other than that K' isn't scary at all on wakeup.
And I wonder if you've played JPN Duos yet, or if you've only played XBL(honest question, not meant to burn). DDxxx teams are TOO strong in this game. Who you use to beat Duo here also lose bad to Daimon.

IMHO, from what I've seen in top level play and from personal experience, Duo has earned his rank, and the only way you'll beat Duo is if you're actually better than the player using him.


the only thing im responding to in that post is your question about king, which the answer is to turtle. on all the charecters i said wait. that means turtle. other than that, take my post for what it is, and thats trying to help people beat duolon. even if its the only current xbox live evolution of him, it will work.

and no, ive never played anyone offline, in fact, ive never played anyone in any fighting game in any arcade ever. we dont have arcades here. also, i have played one Duolon, Daimon, and Terry team. but it was like my second day playing and the dude was currently rank 1.

[Saotome Kaneda]

the only thing im responding to in that post is your question about king, which the answer is to turtle. on all the charecters i said wait. that means turtle. other than that, take my post for what it is, and thats trying to help people beat duolon. even if its the only current xbox live evolution of him, it will work.

and no, ive never played anyone offline, in fact, ive never played anyone in any fighting game in any arcade ever. we dont have arcades here. also, i have played one Duolon, Daimon, and Terry team. but it was like my second day playing and the dude was currently rank 1.


No biggie. I wish the old 2k3 thread was not lost, as we had a wealth of knowledge in there. Sucks for you with no scene. I'm lucky to have the ability and occasional freedom to actually get to comp if necessary. Keep posting your findings though, but eventually(if online play isn't horrible in this game) I think you'll end up where we ended up in mid-2k4, with the Japanese competitive scene like, 2/3rds Duo/Daimon/filler teams.

I also once again state that chars that need to turtle to beat Duo will lose to Daimon. Hell, everyone else in the game has problems against Daimon too. A handful break even(Griffon is a good example as they both have wakeup BS, but Griffon with good guesses can force Daimon to turtle), and only Duo cleanly beats him, but a lot of the others have issues cracking his shell(or with him cracking theirs).

[danomyte]

its offical the game is broke! oh noes!! :crybaby:
its hopeless! :sad:
well time to learn Donny! :badboy:

after don and dam who are commly picked?

k,ash,gato?

[Gutcruncher]

its offical the game is broke! oh noes!! :crybaby:
its hopeless! :sad:
well time to learn Donny! :badboy:

after don and dam who are commly picked?

k,ash,gato?

ive encountered many more Ks than i do ash or gato. actually, now that i think about it i havent fought that many gatos

[danomyte]

tourny or live?

could really care less about who gets picked on live...

[Cybuster]

As far as I know, on Live...I seem to be the only dedicated Gato player, and I only picked him up like a week ago. If there's others out there, consider me surprised. He's a high-effort, medium-reward character. While Ash can sit behind the same 3 moves for most of the match, I've got to be constantly adapting everything I do, trying new things the whole time just to keep the opponent confused. Hard as hell, and satisfying when it works...but all that effort on Gato's part, while Ash gets a Super Fireball with invulnerability frames on it. Yeah. That's lovely.

It's worth noting Gato can mess up scrubby Duos. His jumping grabs can help with this somewhat. Against a Duo who knows how to genuinely abuse his overpowered nature, well...no clue.

[snookaydcc]

i've played plenty of Gatos

OT - I've played exactly ZERO Duolongs on XBL. I actually just started using him the last time i played this game online. U guys call him Top Tier in this game?? lol. So what he can rush and do a few combos on you. Its no worst than Iori's combos, or K's kicking teleport. but hey, thats just my opinion.

I think the scariest thing about him would be that warping foot of his. Someone who memorizes his spacing and which buttons to hit could probably hit u many a times.

[danomyte]

OT - I've played exactly ZERO Duolongs on XBL. I actually just started using him the last time i played this game online. U guys call him Top Tier in this game?? lol. So what he can rush and do a few combos on you. Its no worst than Iori's combos, or K's kicking teleport.

you never played duo and u played him in training mode for 5 mins
and your going to put him to the side like that? :rolleyes:
not very many play duo online but i think donniedark98 was good with him and i think mr karety??
While Ash can sit behind the same 3 moves for most of the match, I've got to be constantly adapting everything I do, trying new things the whole time just to keep the opponent confused. Hard as hell, and satisfying when it works...but all that effort on Gato's part, while Ash gets a Super Fireball with invulnerability frames on it. Yeah. That's lovely.

OG Gato tatics=air grab/air counter 50-50mixup nuff said! :karate: thats 1 less then ash plus ur kick super i think has some invinceable frames?