Kara-Shungokusatsu

[LiSyaoran]

I can't fucken do this shit on a stick. I did it like 1 out of 50 times I tried. My hands can't do that weird comination on a stick, I have to use a pad if want to Kara-Shungoku.

For those of you that don't know how.
S.Jab, S.Jab, T.Stg, S.Sht, S.Frc

You have like, 4 frames to input the S.Sht , S.Frc after the T.Stg so you can kara-cancel it. Its hard as shit on a stick though. Any tips?

Pressing Strong is the problem. I can do the Shungoku normally. Don't think I can't do it at all.... :confused:

[CyanideAssassin]

All I can say is just keep practicing. I cant do this either, but I remember when I was younger I couldnt do a Shungokusatsu at all, my fingers just couldnt remember it all. But after a lot of practice , tapping moves like that just become natural (Anakaris in DS' supers took me a little practice too.)

If you have a stick at home just sit in training mode for a half hour a day or somthing like that (if it even ends up taking that long) and just keep trying.

Sorry if that wasnt the advice you were looking for, but I think you'll get it eventually. I think since its kara you probably have to do it a bit faster than a shungo, but Im not sure. Ill let a Gouki expert take over from here:lol: good luck man.

[LiSyaoran]

All I can say is just keep practicing. I cant do this either, but I remember when I was younger I couldnt do a Shungokusatsu at all, my fingers just couldnt remember it all. But after a lot of practice , tapping moves like that just become natural (Anakaris in DS' supers took me a little practice too.)

If you have a stick at home just sit in training mode for a half hour a day or somthing like that (if it even ends up taking that long) and just keep trying.

Sorry if that wasnt the advice you were looking for, but I think you'll get it eventually. I think since its kara you probably have to do it a bit faster than a shungo, but Im not sure. Ill let a Gouki expert take over from here:lol: good luck man.
Thanks for the encourage ment man

[champ42285]

Whats the point of kara-shungokusatsu?

[HarmoNaz]

Hey man, I pull off kara sgs on stick very easily - because it is easy!

If you can do the normal sgs, kara shouldn't be a problem as you're simply adding the mp in when you press forward.

I did run into problems before, and here are the things which I had to be aware of while practicing this move:

make sure the inputs for the lp, forward + mp are SEPERATE i.e. you dont end up doing them at the same time. the lp should be fully released and stick neutral before you tap forward.

for the final lk and hp, do them as quickly as you can along with the mp. Position your fingers so that you can tap mp,lk,hp in QUICK succession (but make sure that NONE are pressed at the same time). You may need to practice this seperately as it isn't something that people can do straight away.

So what you have is:

lp, lp
tap stick forward and HOLD, pressing mp at the same time that you tap forward
press lk and hp straight after the mp (again, mp,lk,hp in quick succession)

The reason I mention holding the stick forward is to make sure that you press the buttons quick enough. Hard to explain this bit, but you'll understand once you get the hang of it.

Spend about half an hour in training mode and you'll have it down. Trust me, kara sgs is very easy to land on opponents who dont know that its coming. You'll love it so much after a certain point that you'll kara them even when you dont have to :rofl:


Point of kara sgs????
Here's just ONE example - tick throw is annoying, but can be dealt with if you have good reactions.
tick kara throw is more annoying because it can't be tech'ed unless the opponent knew it was coming.
tick, kara demon - you're dead... unless you jumped STRAIGHT AFTER the tick which no one does.

Grunting demons all the way :rock: Once you get it down, pm me and I'll give you some kara sgs setups which work very well :tup:

By the way dnizzle - I've kara sgs'd you on xbox live. It probably happened too quick for you to realise how I actually got it on you...

[LiSyaoran]

for the final lk and hp, do them as quickly as you can along with the mp. Position your fingers so that you can tap mp,lk,hp in QUICK.
This is the hardest part for me. I can't do it fast one a stick, but I can on a pad....

[Xenozip.]

Can't you do LP, LP, toward(hold), LK, MP, HP?

Just buffer it out of something so the LK doesn't come out.

[Makoto36]

There is really no big deal about karashungokusatsu. Dont think too much just do lp lp towards mp lk hp. Try to do it with a setup. Near the enemy mp(hit or block) and during the animation do lp lp and when it finishes do towards mp lk hp. Do the lk hp part fast.
You can't escape!:karate:

[LiSyaoran]

Fuck it, Ill stick it pad action

[champ42285]

Hey man, I pull off kara sgs on stick very easily - because it is easy!



By the way dnizzle - I've kara sgs'd you on xbox live. It probably happened too quick for you to realise how I actually got it on you...
wont you try it again.i play your akuma again.

[Strider-Hiryu]

demon dash > kara-demon

...because demon after a dash is more confirmable for it to grab since doing the demon right next to your opponent would have a higher rate of a sitaution for it happening. i say this because its been done on me numerous times. also, if you do the demon right next to your opponent, your opponent cannot jump away. with kara-demon its hard to tell whether you're absolutely right next to your opponent. with dash, you KNOW you're absolutely next to your opponent.

[CB]

kara demons are my bestest friend after they block a dp+k->k deep, then i do ducking jab, double tap s.jab(second one will wiff), twd.mp, kara->s.sht, s.feirce.

or just do it from a meat ducking jab, it's all love.

[TwinDragz]

It seems like he's having trouble with the MP position. There's another way to ksgs, and that's LP,LP,f+LK,cr.HK~HP
It's a little easier for me to do so maybe easier for others. ksgs off cr.HK looks like gouki does an immediate mini dash forward before the sgs dash.

[l337v1n337]

at first i didnt think about it the correct way, but its pretty simple after you understand how it works. you say you have 4 frames to input the 2 jabs.. well i dont know the details of it, but ive seen people mess up a lot because they try to jab while dashing itself. Ive taught a few people how to do this by telling them to cancel the demon as late as possible. Just dash and insert the two jabs.. and you can actually wait for a short time (pretty damn short.. but noticeable). After the dash and your two jabs, wait for 1/4th of a second or something and finish the rest of the demon input. Dont rush with the commands. just take it easy. 3s everything can be done slow.
think of it this way.. f,f,j,j. make sure the time difference between each of those inputs is the exact same. basically meaning the double tap for dash should be the same speed as the 2 jabs and ofcourse the jab after the 2nd tap should take the same amount of time as the second tap from the first tap.
hm i may have made this more confusing than it should be.. but practice.
The kara overhead.. well, if youre having trouble with the dash demon then you will have trouble with the overhead. master the dash first and then the overhead will be nothing.

[monkeyspank]

The way i do kara shin..either do akumas dive kick and while hes doing the kick do lp.lp then land f.mp,lk,hp as seen on some vids out there. Also you can do a fireball and buffer it the same, ive also done it like this...c.lk,lk hurricane kick and while doing the hurricane kick press lp,then hurricane kick stop press lp again, and press f.mp,lk,hp. :sweat: hope this helps.

[Big War]

demon dash > kara-demon

...because demon after a dash is more confirmable for it to grab since doing the demon right next to your opponent would have a higher rate of a sitaution for it happening. i say this because its been done on me numerous times. also, if you do the demon right next to your opponent, your opponent cannot jump away. with kara-demon its hard to tell whether you're absolutely right next to your opponent. with dash, you KNOW you're absolutely next to your opponent.


If you know what you are doing kara is 10x better. You are assuming a scrubby level of play. If you know the range of Akuma's kara you wont make mistakes with it. Dash in demon is easily readable. Kara demon can be hidden in just about ANYTHING. My boy kara demons out of anything from a UOH to a dp k. If a move generates enough blockstun it can be done while blocking. The range on it is insane. Akuma can dashback kara throw after he knock an oppenent down. I assume you could dash back kara demon if you were quick enough. Thats way more useful than dashing in on someone to be right next to them (why arent they doing something while you dash next to them?) and doing a regular demon.

[Strider-Hiryu]

You are assuming a scrubby level of play.

Dash in demon is easily readable.

(why arent they doing something while you dash next to them?) and doing a regular demon.

One of the top players in Toronto uses this and eats everyone's food with it. He doesn't use it as often as you would think, which makes it hard to tell. Remember, were humans and reactions come slower than you may think. Also, when some of the players do actually realize that its coming a split second AFTER Akuma dashes, we try to throw out light punches or kicks, or even jump. But it doesn't matter after the dash when you relize it a split second later, because Demon eats out the retaliation.

If you know what you are doing kara is 10x better.

If you know the range of Akuma's kara you wont make mistakes with it. Kara demon can be hidden in just about ANYTHING.

Once I see the arm-chop motion or at the very least, the sound of it, I know I'm holding up. I know the range of his kara, which is mad insane,but with that in mind (and as fast I can input the command), it still doesn't catch instantly if my opponent doesn't do anything. I dont know what the problem is when I do it though. I find it best that the kara-demon is best used after a crouching short or dive kick, imo. But hey everyone has their way.

[l337v1n337]

dash demon is pretty good.. but i dont think it owns the kara. I use the dash more than the kara, thats for sure.. but thats just because im scared of missing the chop. The kara, like you said it dosent give you a sense of where you are relative to the opponent. but you have to realize.. if you are doing a dash demon, you have hardly any time to confirm whether youre close enough to the opponent to to the demon. so most of the time, you decide before you even dash. now, if you know youre going to do a dash demon, the kara will add a lot of grabbing-space. Remember, akuma's kara is pretttty good.

edit- didnt read most of what you guys have been saying btw. my bad.. finals. but also, if you see the chop, you automatically assume its a demon? if anything, use that as a mixup.

[Big War]

If a chop is coming out you guys dont know what a kara demon is. Kara throwing doesnt involve chopping followed by throwing and neither does the demon. It means if he is withing kara throw range and he demons you eat it. Period. My friend can do it pretty much at will. Cr mp kara demon is sick. Perfect range and enogh block stun that if you dont jump IMMEDIATLY after the cr mp you eat it. Same thing with cr short.

Maybe i misunderstood you guys and if so i apologize in advance. But it sounds like you the the kara demon is something else. AFAIK by the time you hear him grunt if you arent airborne you are dead it its kara'd.

Anyway if i misunderstood again im sorry.

[l337v1n337]

i dont understand what youre saying. "If a chop is coming out you guys dont know what a kara demon is"

what? And what do you mean kara throwing isnt a chop followed by a throw? thats common knowledge.. but the kara-action is the chop. The chop gets you that extra distance. With the kara demon though, the chop can be thrown out for a LOT longer (mostly because with a regular throw its just pressing 2 buttons at the same time. the demon, its a sequence of buttons).

but ok, im still not sure what you are getting at.. buuut..

kara throw you dont see the chop (but youre definitely doing the motion)
kara demon you definitely see the chop (the chop cancels into the demon. chop dosent hit.. only goes half-way or so. atleast thats where you should keep it)

[HarmoNaz]

cr. mp pushes the opponent away a fair bit. Obviously the jump will save them, but if they simply walk back, then the kara demon will start up SLIGHTLY out of range, giving them a chance to jump away after startup. The only way it will grab them the way you are saying is if they didn't walk back and stayed where they were. Better to do it after:
standing close mp (right next to them)
standing lk (this one always connects if they dont jump)
cr.lk (best setup in my opinion)
divekick which doesn't hit too deep.

Peace

[Big War]

Thats correct harmonaz but most people dont just start walking away at that range, it can be hazardous to your health.

To the above above poster, i still think you arent understanding the kara demon. You shouldnt see any hint of a chop. They are doing it VERY POORLY if you are. The only clue should be a grunt at which point it is too late.

[l337v1n337]

hm.. i do kara demons all the time man. Are you sure you arent just doing the dash demon? again, kara demon adds range. The chop dosent actually hit the opponent and ofcourse you can hold it out for however long you want.. but if its in the range its over. the grunt, understood.. thats the kara motion. but again, kara throw you dont see a chop.. kara demon you definitely should see a chop. If anything, when the chop is out there people tend to block or parry.. either one), but before the chop can even hit them it cancels into the demon. There is no advantage to doing the kara demon without holding the the chop out for a decent while.

[Big War]

I dont think you are doing a kara demon if you see a chop.

[l337v1n337]

how is that not doing a kara demon? The kara motion is the chop and it cancels into the demon before the chop even hits. That is exactly what a kara demon is. If there is no chop then its just a dash demon (or as you said you can put the chop in there but have it barely visible)

[Big War]

Moves have to be Kara'd within the first 5 frames iirc. In no way should you see any portion of the chop in 5 frames.

[l337v1n337]

isnt that just for a kara throw.. simply because the throw input is just pressing 2 buttons at the same time. which is ofcourse ridiculously fast. The demon on the other hand is a 5 button input. Again.. it makes no sense how you can call no chop coming out a kara demon.. yet when the chop is cancelled into a demon as not a kara demon.

[Big War]

Im guessing your doing it the wrong way.

Jab Jab Forward + mp THEN short feirce.

I guess u can chop then do the command which is prolly how you are doing it. Try it that way and you will start raping people.

[l337v1n337]

that is the way i do it.. there is no other way. well, rather i dash first so the jabs are hidden, then forward + mp so i can short fierce in between there and as soon as i hit fierce the chop stops halfway and becomes a demon. believe me, you are doing the same thing except not keeping the chop out there for long. again, i dont see how yours is a kara demon and mine isnt

[HarmoNaz]

You guys are misunderstanding each other. Kara demon doesnt necessarily mean that the demon was kara'd in the way that the engine understands it i.e. cancel within five frames. Remember the demon can cancel out ANY normal move, which is what happens with our so called 'kara demon'.

Big war is describing it so that you do it so fast that you dont see the chop. Strictly speaking, if you look CAREFULLY at the startup frame, you can just about see the chop's shadow vanishing. Advantage - comes out real quick. Disadvantage - the range isn't that much better than a normal demon. Its happened to me after my standing mp - kara demon setup - it didn't move forward enough to grab them before they had a chance to jump.

l337 is describing it so that the demon comes out a few frames AFTER big wars setup. Advantage - much further range, and people who actually see the chop sometimes try to block it. Disadvantage - players who know what to look out for can safely jump away when they see the chop. Trust me, I've had players jump out of that setup as soon as they saw the chop.

[Strider-Hiryu]

Big war is describing it so that you do it so fast that you dont see the chop. Strictly speaking, if you look CAREFULLY at the startup frame, you can just about see the chop's shadow vanishing. Advantage - comes out real quick. Disadvantage - the range isn't that much better than a normal demon. Its happened to me after my standing mp - kara demon setup - it didn't move forward enough to grab them before they had a chance to jump.

l337 is describing it so that the demon comes out a few frames AFTER big wars setup. Advantage - much further range, and people who actually see the chop sometimes try to block it. Disadvantage - players who know what to look out for can safely jump away when they see the chop. Trust me, I've had players jump out of that setup as soon as they saw the chop.


Best descriptive post. Ever.

[l337v1n337]

Best descriptive post. Ever.

word

[sl33p]

anyone knwo if this works on the ps2 version? ive been trying.. and its either im too slow, or it really doesnt work.

[ctye85]

anyone knwo if this works on the ps2 version? ive been trying.. and its either im too slow, or it really doesnt work.

Yes, it works.

[FatBear]

You guys are misunderstanding each other. Kara demon doesnt necessarily mean that the demon was kara'd in the way that the engine understands it i.e. cancel within five frames. Remember the demon can cancel out ANY normal move, which is what happens with our so called 'kara demon'.


I'd just like to add to this so everything is perfectly clear. The Raging Demon can cancel any normal at ANY TIME during the normal. Not just in the first five frames like a normal kara cancel or after a hit like a 2-in-1 but at any time. Startup, hitting frames, recovery... doesn't matter. You can do stupid shit like demon after they block your sweep to own their punishment attempt.

[Shadowstep]

Kara demon is most definily in my play book because it's the better way to set people up for it. I can saftey save that I got most people with it because there never expect it:wgrin: I have to side with Harm, Big war and l337v1n337 with there posts. I have been work tirelless at night trying to perfect this one baiting setup for the I.H.M but the fireball keeps coming out:confused:

I'm gaining alot of knowlegde with Akuma from you guys! keep it coming:rock:

[Shadowstep]

I'd just like to add to this so everything is perfectly clear. The Raging Demon can cancel any normal at ANY TIME during the normal. Not just in the first five frames like a normal kara cancel or after a hit like a 2-in-1 but at any time. Startup, hitting frames, recovery... doesn't matter. You can do stupid shit like demon after they block your sweep to own their punishment attempt.

100% co-sign on the recovery:badboy: