What are your thoughts on MUGEN?

Hadouken foxHadouken fox Arcade stick NewbJoined: Posts: 101
I don't know if this is in the right place but, i would like to know what everyone's thoughts are on the MUGEN engine.
Hadouken Fox....Showing furry love for his fellow gamers.

:qcf:+:hp: = The only move noobs know.
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  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,571 mod
    I think its doomed to never be taken seriously.

    Also always good to have another furry on SRK. That's one thing we are definitely in need of.
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • Hadouken foxHadouken fox Arcade stick Newb Joined: Posts: 101
    I think its doomed to never be taken seriously.

    Also always good to have another furry on SRK. That's one thing we are definitely in need of.

    THanks and yes i do agree. the game is Highly unballenced. and i do own a copy of mugen..its one of my guilty pleasures.
    Hadouken Fox....Showing furry love for his fellow gamers.

    :qcf:+:hp: = The only move noobs know.
  • DHEvilDHEvil Joined: Posts: 2,365
    I think they need to fix the freaking sound issues.
    BUHSSA WUHF!!
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,204
    THanks and yes i do agree. the game is Highly unballenced. and i do own a copy of mugen..its one of my guilty pleasures.

    Wssssssshhhhhhhh
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  • deadfrogdeadfrog Joined: Joined: Posts: 6,782 ✭✭✭✭
    THanks and yes i do agree. the game is Highly unballenced. and i do own a copy of mugen..its one of my guilty pleasures.

    What are your other guilty pleasures, Hadouken fox? :smile:
  • AlexlexusAlexlexus Joined: Posts: 300
    mugen can be balcned with thr right people behind it. take a look at some of these videos with mugen that nMo made. im telling you mugen i will make it serious for fighting game fans. elect byte did us justice with making the engine and in the right hands you can get rsults like this.





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  • NinjaMicNinjaMic Registered Scrub Joined: Posts: 332
    I think its doomed to never be taken seriously.

    Also always good to have another furry on SRK. That's one thing we are definitely in need of.

    this is just mean


    I mean I actually laughed out loud



    but sheesh
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  • d3vd3v Stayin' tore 4 lyf. Joined: Posts: 25,219 mod
    mugen can be balcned with thr right people behind it. take a look at some of these videos with mugen that nMo made. im telling you mugen i will make it serious for fighting game fans. elect byte did us justice with making the engine and in the right hands you can get rsults like this.





    Unfortunately, most people on it are fanboy scrubs who're out to fulfill their fantasies or are unable to play to win and would rather try to prove that they can do a better version of their favorite character rather than learn to win with them.
  • Kalyx triaDKalyx triaD R-Tyme Entertainment Joined: Posts: 2,772 ✭✭✭
    Unfortunately, most people on it are fanboy scrubs who're out to fulfill their fantasies or are unable to play to win and would rather try to prove that they can do a better version of their favorite character rather than learn to win with them.

    I agree MUGEN games usually end up apocalyptic but I doubt your reasons are accurate. The results of the MUGEN template are merely the expected results of any similar program when you give people tools to create things without the training/education to... create things. But I don't think it''s some 'scrub revenge' movement.
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  • AlexlexusAlexlexus Joined: Posts: 300
    some mugen games can be made badly. but i can say that mugen games can be really solid.
    Shifting to Turbo
    The lexus has left you...
    never to return.


    Dinjin Shin Final Big Bang Kame Hame Haaadou ken!!!!!!!!
  • ShineErectionShineErection This party's gettin' crazy! Let's rock! Joined: Posts: 726
    I was always sketchy about MUGEN because all the videos I'd always seen had been absolute chaos with a bunch of supers flying around everywhere, and over powered characters with attacks that cover the whole screen.

    However, the Super Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike Turbo I believe was the full proper name for it, looked to be a really solid and fun game. When I was looking on the nmowner site, I couldn't help but see the Dante that Alexlexus made, I can't wait to see what he's like in action.
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  • c001357c001357 Time Wizard Joined: Posts: 576
    However, the Super Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike Turbo I believe was the full proper name for it, looked to be a really solid and fun game. When I was looking on the nmowner site, I couldn't help but see the Dante that Alexlexus made, I can't wait to see what he's like in action.

    it looks terrible

    heres a better one "

    compare:
  • NickRocksNickRocks On the west side I'm screaming FUCK KD Joined: Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think its doomed to never be taken seriously.

    Also always good to have another furry on SRK. That's one thing we are definitely in need of.
    THanks and yes i do agree. the game is Highly unballenced. and i do own a copy of mugen..its one of my guilty pleasures.
    What are your other guilty pleasures, Hadouken fox? :smile:

    hahahah too good
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  • RoGE9RoGE9 Joined: Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭✭
    Mugen is only good depending on what you add to it, it can either be good or bad. There are accurate Mugen characters out there, but very few. I remember me and my friends screwing around with this.
  • WarpticonWarpticon Main otaku of SRK #2 Joined: Posts: 9,896 ✭✭✭✭✭
    THanks and yes i do agree. the game is Highly unballenced. and i do own a copy of mugen..its one of my guilty pleasures.

    I don't know why I'm posting in this thread, but whatever.

    Saying MUGEN is unbalanced is like saying C++ is unbalanced. I hope you realize that.

    The biggest problem with the MUGEN scene is that nobody wants to make a game. Yes, that includes the people who are supposedly making games. None of these people want to actually make a game. At best, most of them want to make a character and throw all their ideas into it. Maybe they'll spread those ideas among several characters, but the point remains the same: building a complete game isn't something they're interested in enough to actually do it. This begets "games" which are actually just collections of unrelated characters which haven't been balanced or otherwise designed to fit within the same environment. Some people love collecting these random characters, especially the most over the top (and almost universally terribly designed) characters. Others strive to simply create the most absurd, unfair AI for people to try to beat. There are more examples as well.

    All of the above is fine, but none of it is actually making a game.

    Look at Fighter Maker 2nd. There are dozens of games of wildly variant quality built on the engine -- Vanguard Princess, Dong Dong Never Die, Wonderful World, (Supier)/Strip Fighter IV, Super Cosplay War Ultra, and more. There are people who only convert characters from existing games as well, but it's not nearly as epidemically common as it is with MUGEN. There are complete and tangible results of well polished games being released fairly often on the FM2nd engine, which is very much not the case with MUGEN. The result is that the MUGEN engine itself, and its capabilities, are sold short. People call the engine garbage because creator #7209 doesn't understand alignment or hit velocities, or creator #5877 thought it would be cool to take an existing creation and add things to it without actually understanding what he was doing.

    I suppose it's partly the fault of the engine's design for having modular components that are easy to swap around, as well as most of the documentation being character-driven. Nevertheless, MUGEN itself is a great platform on which to build a game, if a person were so inclined. It's pretty easy to learn, is designed in a logical way, is very open-ended while also being structured enough to be easy to follow, and now with recent releases is graphically representative of the current century. I htink it's avery good engine. Having not used it seriously in years, I don't have the programming experience with new versions to break down what its weaknesses are. I just know that its capabilities are abundant.
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the compound.
  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,571 mod
    mugen needs to ability to wrap up your creation into a neat executable, free of the mugen name, for 2 reasons...

    1. nobody will ever take a mugen game seriously
    2. it would feel like a more legitimate game if it were legitimately wrapped up, and not just the basic mugen executable, with a bunch of character files and stage files.
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • arstalarstal Joined: Posts: 2,968
    I'd love to see MUGEN wrapped up with GGPO, and maybe an XML type way to make editing move properties easier
    --- The folks who oppose progress in fighters are the Tea Partiers of the FGC.
  • Black ShroudBlack Shroud Spirits Society Joined: Posts: 1,167
    http://elecbyte.com/forum/index.php?topic=378.0
    It seems most people there think that MUGEN and netplay do not mix
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  • snaeksnaek ihearthawthats Joined: Posts: 367
    mugen is a fun casual fighting game. the problem with this is that people of traditional competitive fighting games bash on it because it can't be played competitively. i think people should take it for what it is, instead of trying to compare it to "real" fighting games.

    what mugen needs is online play with an official online community, akin to osu.
  • JappoJappo The Sexy Madness Joined: Posts: 414
    Needs more Omega Tom Hanks, imo. :coffee:
    "I laughed out load on that one."-Shade


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  • Hatred EdgeHatred Edge FEAR MY WRATH Joined: Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Instant death homing Shun Goku Satsu.:pray:
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  • YungKratosYungKratos My mom's a Skullgirl Joined: Posts: 631
    mugen needs to ability to wrap up your creation into a neat executable, free of the mugen name, for 2 reasons...

    1. nobody will ever take a mugen game seriously
    2. it would feel like a more legitimate game if it were legitimately wrapped up, and not just the basic mugen executable, with a bunch of character files and stage files.
    Actually its possible with a program called mole box.

    Back on topic i had this very thought this morning while i was logged into I.M.T. (Infinitymugenteam.com for those who dont know) What if there were srkers who made a mugen game, a legitimate mugen game. Would it be good for either community or would it be utter chaos? Well i personally believe 3-4 years ago no. Today i believe it is very possible and heres why. Both communities are at a place were they very well could interact with civility. A couple years ago it really was random sprites and code copied and pasted all over. Now more and more you see people with the directive to create, not just random character x with custom spaz out hyper y (although there is alot of that still) but actual games. I believe with SRK as Q&A of sorts Helping out with the fine tuning. Providing the feedback some of these creators need. we might get an actual respectable and dare i say, competetive game using the Mugen Engine.
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  • Geese PantsGeese Pants Midwest Decepticon Joined: Posts: 14,735 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And a midget Akuma to assist..............epic.
    The Prince of Masturbation.........

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  • ProjectjusticeProjectjustice Sonic Boom! Joined: Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭

    Instant death homing Shun Goku Satsu.:pray:
    Why have you not done this Capcom? WHY?

    Shit like that is why Mugen doesnt get much love.

    D3V makes a valid point. You know how many 09 scrubs were in the Gouken forums asking Capcom to give him a SRK cause they felt his wakeup game was weak and he was a shoto master of Ryu.:lol:

    IMO, that Super Street Fighter 3 Alexlexus is working on looks good.
    Supercade, XBL and GGPO tags: Projectjustice
  • Sensei RouzuSensei Rouzu Lion's Roar Joined: Posts: 3,776 ✭✭✭
    I have to try this out someday. I mean come on look at this.

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  • ApartheidApartheid ◔ ◡ ◔ nice post ! Joined: Posts: 205
    In Japan, the folks who use MUGEN attempt to make the characters as close to their best incarnations as humanly possible in order to have tangible crossover matches.

    Here in the States, however, we have people who make God Ultimate Ryu and Raging Violent Iori. Also, a very homely Iori clone in the form of Homer Simpson!
  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,571 mod
    wow that rare akuma is a mess. pretty terrible when the least gay thing about your character is skulls for fireballs
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • JED07JED07 Sleeping on the floor with the Rats Joined: Posts: 649
    mugen needs to ability to wrap up your creation into a neat executable, free of the mugen name, for 2 reasons...

    1. nobody will ever take a mugen game seriously
    2. it would feel like a more legitimate game if it were legitimately wrapped up, and not just the basic mugen executable, with a bunch of character files and stage files.

    This essentially.
    Will puke for ST.
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,204

    Fuck is that nonsense.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • Kalyx triaDKalyx triaD R-Tyme Entertainment Joined: Posts: 2,772 ✭✭✭
    Angel Ryu vs Angel Ken. Watch AI's fight. Yay.
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  • LouiscipherLouiscipher The man you love to hate Joined: Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mugen is fun to mess around with. But the lack of human competition relegates it to nothing but dream matches and XX VS Cheapest Mugen Character matches on youtube.
    STOMP!
  • Master_AmadoMaster_Amado Joined: Posts: 128
    I don't know why I'm posting in this thread, but whatever.

    Saying MUGEN is unbalanced is like saying C++ is unbalanced. I hope you realize that.

    The biggest problem with the MUGEN scene is that nobody wants to make a game. Yes, that includes the people who are supposedly making games. None of these people want to actually make a game. At best, most of them want to make a character and throw all their ideas into it. Maybe they'll spread those ideas among several characters, but the point remains the same: building a complete game isn't something they're interested in enough to actually do it. This begets "games" which are actually just collections of unrelated characters which haven't been balanced or otherwise designed to fit within the same environment. Some people love collecting these random characters, especially the most over the top (and almost universally terribly designed) characters. Others strive to simply create the most absurd, unfair AI for people to try to beat. There are more examples as well.

    All of the above is fine, but none of it is actually making a game.

    Look at Fighter Maker 2nd. There are dozens of games of wildly variant quality built on the engine -- Vanguard Princess, Dong Dong Never Die, Wonderful World, (Supier)/Strip Fighter IV, Super Cosplay War Ultra, and more. There are people who only convert characters from existing games as well, but it's not nearly as epidemically common as it is with MUGEN. There are complete and tangible results of well polished games being released fairly often on the FM2nd engine, which is very much not the case with MUGEN. The result is that the MUGEN engine itself, and its capabilities, are sold short. People call the engine garbage because creator #7209 doesn't understand alignment or hit velocities, or creator #5877 thought it would be cool to take an existing creation and add things to it without actually understanding what he was doing.

    I suppose it's partly the fault of the engine's design for having modular components that are easy to swap around, as well as most of the documentation being character-driven. Nevertheless, MUGEN itself is a great platform on which to build a game, if a person were so inclined. It's pretty easy to learn, is designed in a logical way, is very open-ended while also being structured enough to be easy to follow, and now with recent releases is graphically representative of the current century. I htink it's avery good engine. Having not used it seriously in years, I don't have the programming experience with new versions to break down what its weaknesses are. I just know that its capabilities are abundant.

    Thank god someone said this. I dont know why it is so hard for people in the fighting game community to understand the difference between a video game and a game creation tool. If you decided to download and fill Mugen with different character from different creators of course its going to be a unbalanced piece of crap. Like any tool its only as good as the people who use it. That being said it is not perfect but more than capable of creating a decent 2d fighter.

    In fact I noticed alot of posts recently where someone talks about some magical fighting game engine they are going to make and as soon as someone mentions Mugen they scoff at the very mention of it. The truth is if you cant even make and code a character in Mugen there is no way in hell you are going to be able to make a whole fighting game engine and a complete fighting game to go with it.
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  • shurfshurf Joined: Posts: 239
    I really don't care for it and will never take it seriously. Sure some of the concepts and sprites are cool but it doesn't have a scene, and isn't nearly as fun as official fighters. Alexlexus showed me some of his sprite work at a tourney one time. Awesome to look at, but its just a hobby to most I think.

    And that Akuma video from a few posts up looked like complete shit. This is why Mugen looks pretty bad to most people.
  • RaishinXRaishinX I fell off Joined: Posts: 1,991
    deadfrog wrote:
    What are your other guilty pleasures, Hadouken fox?:smile:

    lmao.
    IMO, that Super Street Fighter 3 Alexlexus is working on looks good.

    Link?

    And Pherai when did you start being God-Tier?
    i just stared at beast for 5 minutes.... hes looking right at me
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  • ProjectjusticeProjectjustice Sonic Boom! Joined: Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭
    lmao.



    Link?

    And Pherai when did you start being God-Tier?

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  • Hatred EdgeHatred Edge FEAR MY WRATH Joined: Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why does Gouken have Gouki's moves and intro pose? WTF is that?

    That aside doesn't look too bad.
    With the power I have attained....  Overwhelming and absolute.
  • ProjectjusticeProjectjustice Sonic Boom! Joined: Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭
    Why does Gouken have Gouki's moves and intro pose? WTF is that?

    That aside doesn't look too bad.



    Check it out here too, people actually playing it. Starts at 2:00.
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  • AlexlexusAlexlexus Joined: Posts: 300
    rare akuma should not be looked at when it comes to games with mugen. he gives mugen a bad rep. with mugen you have so much control people will go and do shit like this. also as for molbox pro.

    as for my dante this is the 3rd version of him and still a beta. me and bugya are doing it in differetn styles and i was the very first to evet attempt dante for mugen. so i already marked my place in mugen history and i know some might not like it. but its not easy to make him 100% perfect during beta stages so with that said i wish the other creator luck on his dante and i will keep pushing to develop mine.

    3rd strike turbo is a very solid game and cvs 2 w 2.8 is even more solid than my game.

    here is another solid mugen fight

    Shifting to Turbo
    The lexus has left you...
    never to return.


    Dinjin Shin Final Big Bang Kame Hame Haaadou ken!!!!!!!!
  • c001357c001357 Time Wizard Joined: Posts: 576
    The reason why mugen look shitty when it comes to gameplay is it's render system. Mugen gameplay is too fucking choppy. Even if mugen had a good fullgame, it will still look like shit without a updated rendersystem like shugendo.

    they are actually working on it right now
    It also needs new features. There isn't even a decent tag mode, start menu, or anything would make it past for a full game.

    yeah.
    I remember when elecbyte returned with not to long ago, and the mugen community wanted backwards capability, which was a stupid move. Elecbyte fuckedup by listening to those scrubs, which is way mugen is still shit as of now and the development is slow. Instead of elecbyte making something new and fresh, they decided to make the mugen scrubs happy so that there shitty characters would still be playable EX: omega evil shin ssj574 tom hanks.

    1.0 already had backwards compatibility. this is a non-issue
    The only way mugen can be taken seriously is if a pro stepped in a did his own thing. I mean someone that place high at tournaments or knows the in and outs of whatever game he plays.

    how? at best its just going to be some mystery tournament thing
  • Lan_DiLan_Di George Costanza Joined: Posts: 1,985
    Making a MUGEN thread on SRK is imviting everyone to call you a fucking retard. But you're a furry, you're probably used to that.
  • WarpticonWarpticon Main otaku of SRK #2 Joined: Posts: 9,896 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mugen is a fun casual fighting game.

    No, it is not. This is part of the problem with MUGEN. MUGEN is not a fighting game. MUGEN is an engine on which fighting games can be built.
    I'd love to see MUGEN wrapped up with GGPO, and maybe an XML type way to make editing move properties easier

    Editing move properties isn't hard. If following the very logical progression of a hitdef is too complicated for you, I doubt the hypothetical XML based variant is going to be of much help.
    The reason why mugen look shitty when it comes to gameplay is it's render system. Mugen gameplay is too fucking choppy. Even if mugen had a good fullgame, it will still look like shit without a updated rendersystem like shugendo.

    There's nothing "choppy" about the gameplay in MUGEN that isn't dependent upon the limitations of the content. It could stand more visual features, though, I'll agree. On the other hand,
    I remember when elecbyte returned with not to long ago, and the mugen community wanted backwards capability, which was a stupid move.

    I could not agree with this more--not so much in th sense that Elecbyte messed up as in the overall idea that backwards compatiblity is even worth caring about. Backwards compatibility is the dumbest issue going on with the MUGEN scene at large, and it's proof positive that nobody wants to actually make games. There were so many MUGEN clones like XNA Mugen, Shugendo, InfinityCat, and others that were worked on in the years that Elecbyte disappeared, all of which ran at 1992 resolutions and added minimal features. The smart thing to do would be to make a game with actual support for modern features (higher resolutions, more interface options, etc.) based around the MUGEN coding language. Then people could translate their skills to a better engine. Nobody wanted to do that, because backward compatibility was too important.
    The only way mugen can be taken seriously is if a pro stepped in a did his own thing. I mean someone that place high at tournaments or knows the in and outs of whatever game he plays.

    Nobody needs to be a tournament player to make good games in MUGEN. They just have to want to make a good game, be willing to work hard at it, and know what they're doing. Generally speaking, nobody does. The game is the game. If the game is good, people will play it.

    Incidentally, there's nothing stopping someone from making an external netplay client compatible with MUGEN. It was done with Caster for IAMP, Melty Blood, and Akatsuki Blitzkampf. It was done with Lunaport and works with any game made in Fighter Maker 2nd. Honestly, I'd put higher faith in a community client than an inbuilt one anyway (just look at how much better blitzcaster is than the built-in netplay in Blitzkampf).
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the compound.
  • Lan_DiLan_Di George Costanza Joined: Posts: 1,985
    I agree with what's been said here. I'd someone come out with an original, fun, solid game with some fresh ideas, Built on the MUGEN engine, I'd play it. But that doesn't happen. All we get are 12 year olds dicking around with headswaps like "raging shin violent Ken-kuma."
  • Ben ReedBen Reed c. LK is my co-pilot Joined: Posts: 976 ✭✭
    snip

    Agree completely. To be quite honest, Warpticon is probably the only one in this thread actually qualified to talk about MUGEN. That's not hyperbole, either.

    MUGEN is an excellent tool that, for both good and stupid reasons, has never been used to its full potential. Yes, it attracts a lot of talentless hacks who can't even code KFM into a FUNCTIONAL crappy DBZ character (whaddup crouching jab infinites...wish I had a few BRAZIL TIME videos at hand on YouTube), and yes, it tends to attract more half-hearted-to-full-hearted conversions of existing characters rather than original properties, but with minor tweaks and an actual dev team attached there's absolutely no reason it couldn't produce a "serious" fighting game.

    People take Vanguard Princess seriously despite its origins, there's no reason the same can't be done should a "serious" MUGEN game eventually emerge. The engine itself is accessible and malleable (and, er, effectively abandoned to the public domain) enough that with minor tweaks and a lot of elbow grease/original assets, it's perfectly possible to create a product of at least Melty Blood production values.

    And really, if you've ever sat down to try to make even one totally original character for MUGEN, you'll understand VERY quickly why you rarely see full "games" for MUGEN and why they're all of such low quality. This shit is a LOT more work than it appears to be, especially if you're trying to come up with 100% original or mostly-original art/sound assets, and ESPECIALLY if you're trying to do stuff more or less on your own. (Even sprite-editing KOF characters like MUGEN kids love to do takes FOREVER.)

    And really, what the hell kind of dev team could you possibly assemble for a non-profit fighting game venture? Between just making the assets and then having to balance and clean up the damn thing to make it not look so much like a MUGEN game, that's NOT work you wanna be doing for free, and the naiive fools who think it never happens simply for lack of trying quickly learn how hard it is to keep themselves and anyone they team up with focused and on schedule.

    Case in point, I once tried to crudely draw my own MUGEN character from scratch thinking I could bang out more than enough mediocre sprites to have a character who was ugly but at least well-proportioned and fully animated within a month or two. With all the basic proportion mistakes I made, it took me a month just to draw all the "required" sprites (the getting-hit/knockdown/thrown state animations that allow your character to be implemented as a basic punching bag in MUGEN), and trying to make a 4-button character I spent another month on just the basic attacks. I got about halfway through a very ghetto Balrog-esque rush punch animation (his one special move of a planned 4 + a Balrog rush punch super) before I finally lost initiative.

    (That's not to say I didn't have a fair bit of fun with the project while I was at it. Favorite memories include recording my own shitty voice grunts for the character in question, watching him throw people into space when my brother [an OG MUGEN creator] and I failed to set a certain value for his throw properly, and of course his sweep animation. I basically eyeball-traced Iori's crouching D sweep animation for my character for around 12-14 unique frames of animation, but when I played the whole thing back I realized that over the course of 8 frames or so I had accidentally doubled the size of the character's proportions. Lots of fun then ensued with ghetto resizing (and some outright redrawing) on his gigantic fucking legs to keep him properly proportioned for the duration of his sweep. Proportion ain't easy, but it is, in fact, necessary.)

    It's thanks to MUGEN that I understand half the stuff I do about fighting games. No matter how shitty large chunks of the scene may be, MUGEN is still the shit. If I ever find the initiative to (poorly) draw sprites again, I may actually give it another shot.
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  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,571 mod
    Agree completely. To be quite honest, Warpticon is probably the only one in this thread actually qualified to talk about MUGEN. That's not hyperbole, either.

    wtf what qualifications do you need to talk about mugen?
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • Ben ReedBen Reed c. LK is my co-pilot Joined: Posts: 976 ✭✭
    wtf what qualifications do you need to talk about mugen?

    Warp actually MADE characters, by himself and with collaborators, and we're not talking crude DBZ characters or cheesy SHIN EVIL KEN kinda shit, either. I know this because I followed the MUGEN scene well before the WinMUGEN leak (I'd wager most people here had never even HEARD of MUGEN until the WinMUGEN leak), and while I wasn't a creator myself, I got a pretty clear secondhand picture of who was actually doing work within that scene by way of my brother. Warp was definitely one of the most legit people in that scene. A lot of those people have since fallen off but some of them are still around, and a lot of the stupid dog tricks they taught the engine to do have become institutions.

    Responses like this thread has been getting only underscore how few people have actually TRIED to work with MUGEN and understand what its actual role in the fighting game scene is.
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  • ApartheidApartheid ◔ ◡ ◔ nice post ! Joined: Posts: 205
    wtf what qualifications do you need to talk about mugen?

    Oh, I don't know, someone who's actually taken the trouble of trying to develop something within in? You know, someone with hands-on experience rather than the general opinion of everyone else?
  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,571 mod
    Obviously if you have done development with a dev tool, you can elaborate more on said dev tool, but I wouldn't go as far as to say you have no place to comment on a dev tool if you haven't actually developed with it.
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • DarthTreyDarthTrey Sabaku Taiso!!! Joined: Posts: 924
    Obviously if you have done development with a dev tool, you can elaborate more on said dev tool, but I wouldn't go as far as to say you have no place to comment on a dev tool if you haven't actually developed with it.


    If you have no experience with a Dev tool than how can you possibly come up with a valid statement on said development product on how useful it is/can be.....

    By all means you can make valid comments on the quality of things that have been released from it, but as far as how good the tool is i don't think you can....
    Say hello to your mother for me.
  • c001357c001357 Time Wizard Joined: Posts: 576
    I could not agree with this more--not so much in th sense that Elecbyte messed up as in the overall idea that backwards compatiblity is even worth caring about. Backwards compatibility is the dumbest issue going on with the MUGEN scene at large, and it's proof positive that nobody wants to actually make games. There were so many MUGEN clones like XNA Mugen, Shugendo, InfinityCat, and others that were worked on in the years that Elecbyte disappeared, all of which ran at 1992 resolutions and added minimal features. The smart thing to do would be to make a game with actual support for modern features (higher resolutions, more interface options, etc.) based around the MUGEN coding language. Then people could translate their skills to a better engine. Nobody wanted to do that, because backward compatibility was too important.

    like I said, its a nonissue because it was already based on the older mugen somewhat. though 2.0 will entirely overhaul the cns structure.


    It's not fair to say people arent making full games, because there are a already a handful which are much more than throwing things together

    about netplay: there are a load of problems with developing and implementing it.
  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,571 mod
    If you have no experience with a Dev tool than how can you possibly come up with a valid statement on said development product on how useful it is/can be.....

    By all means you can make valid comments on the quality of things that have been released from it, but as far as how good the tool is i don't think you can....

    The post I responded to just said nobody but warp was qualified to talk about mugen, without being more specific than that. You can get a good idea of how it works just by running it, and can at least make a good guess at its potential. Hell, I'd wager a lot of people who have only used Mugen have a better concept of its potential when it seems like a great deal of the people working in mugen are just making shoto clones.
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
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