Abel Beginner Thread: "It takes more than brute strength..."

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  • ailerusailerus ni hao Joined: Posts: 1,335
    His options are pretty bad. Depending on what you think the other person is going to do, you can:

    jump back or neutral jump
    backdash (this can be beaten with option selects)
    ex roll (can be beaten with OS throw) [if this is a safejump setup by the other player, you can not normal roll out]
    ex tornado throw (this can lose to OS dp with a lot of characters, otherwise this isn't too bad)

    look into armor cancelling (it's mentioned earlier) as a possible option to beat safejump setups.
    "That's what happens when you don't have the master's skill...you know what I mean...your muthafuckin money get taken if you ain't comin wit it."
  • doubleohdoubleoh Joined: Posts: 261
    I need some help, guys. Just started SSFIV after about a 2 year break and I've been practicing in the lab for about 3 hours. One thing is kind of confusing me: after a step kick and dash, why does my TT miss sometimes even when I'm close enough? Abel just grabs right through the enemy and nothing happens.

    ??
    SSFIVAE: Abel
  • ailerusailerus ni hao Joined: Posts: 1,335
    Is it on hit or block? You cannot throw someone while they're in blockstun or hitstun.
    "That's what happens when you don't have the master's skill...you know what I mean...your muthafuckin money get taken if you ain't comin wit it."
  • TrickRTreatTrickRTreat Joined: Posts: 28
    I need some help, guys. Just started SSFIV after about a 2 year break and I've been practicing in the lab for about 3 hours. One thing is kind of confusing me: after a step kick and dash, why does my TT miss sometimes even when I'm close enough? Abel just grabs right through the enemy and nothing happens.

    ??

    Your probably going to fast. You can not combo a command grab. Try a slight pause before the TT. I prefer step kick then crouching like kick then TT. You can actually use 2 crouching attacks and still reach with light TT.
  • doubleohdoubleoh Joined: Posts: 261
    Thanks guys, I'll try to slow it down a bit and let them recover before trying TT. That c.lk doesn't sound too bad either.

    I'm still having nightmares with Abel's 1f links. His FADC > c. hp is somewhat doable, but that step kick into the st. hp is a fucking nightmare. Not to mention the concept of plinking is completely new to me... I'll be practicing that st. hp from step kick for days before I get it =/
    SSFIVAE: Abel
  • TrickRTreatTrickRTreat Joined: Posts: 28
    Just remember when linking f+mk into st. fierce it will not link with 50 percent if not more of the cast if they are crouching, now there is an exception if you perform what is called the frenchie or getting frenched; I would refer to the Abel beginners guide for this.

    Start off practicing with standing oppenents then practice punishing whiffed shoryukens or blocked shoryukens. I myself am starting to practice this more. It does get easier over time.
  • PandasaurusPandasaurus Joined: Posts: 3
    Hi guys.
    Sorry for the random question... but I didn't want to make a new thread for this.
    Abel is one of the few characters I am interested in... Is he an okay character to pick up for a newbie?
  • ailerusailerus ni hao Joined: Posts: 1,335
    He's rather difficult because his main combo is a 1f link and it doesn't work if a lot of people are crouching.

    Just fyi, If you get a counter hit with stepkick, and the opponent is crouching, you can combo close st.mp instead of close st.fp because that hits crouching. This is especially useful against honda, because the combo doesn't work on him unless you hit him from max range with the stepkick. Learning to confirm off of a counter hit is an important skill to learn, too. I recommend going into training mode and setting counter hits to random, and if you see the counter hit pop up, hit mp instead of fp.
    "That's what happens when you don't have the master's skill...you know what I mean...your muthafuckin money get taken if you ain't comin wit it."
  • doubleohdoubleoh Joined: Posts: 261
    So I've been reading up a but on Abel.

    c.lk > lk roll leaves Abel at +8 frames. What does this mean for his c.HP?
    SSFIVAE: Abel
  • ailerusailerus ni hao Joined: Posts: 1,335
    It means you don't understand how frame data works...you can get thrown after the c.lk, and most reversal DPs will stop roll startup unless it's EX.

    If you're close enough, you can combo c.lk, st.mp, or hp. no need to try for a roll mixup there.
    "That's what happens when you don't have the master's skill...you know what I mean...your muthafuckin money get taken if you ain't comin wit it."
  • doubleohdoubleoh Joined: Posts: 261
    uh, it means i will recover 8 frames faster than my opponent, was wondering if it was viable ultra setup, but i should have just checked the frame data on his elbow launcher to begin with.
    SSFIVAE: Abel
  • TrickRTreatTrickRTreat Joined: Posts: 28
    Hi guys.
    Sorry for the random question... but I didn't want to make a new thread for this.
    Abel is one of the few characters I am interested in... Is he an okay character to pick up for a newbie?

    I actuall think he is pretty easy to pick up. His preasure is pretty easy to learn off of step kick. However to become good with him is not easy. However puting alot of work in training pays off really big and is very satisfying. The character is very fun to play with which helps with getting your ass kicked.
  • HFXHFX forgotten abel Joined: Posts: 4,742
    c.lk > lk roll leaves Abel at +8 frames.

    Where did you read that?

    Sent from my GT-I9100G using Tapatalk 2
    Malaysia / Kuching FGC | Twitter @ abelity_ | Facebook @ facebook.com/showmeyourabelity | Youtube @ youtube.com/c/ShowMeYourAbelity
  • doubleohdoubleoh Joined: Posts: 261
    Where did you read that?

    Sent from my GT-I9100G using Tapatalk 2
    Somewhere around these forums, I think? I'm pretty sure I misread though, cause I can't find it again.
    SSFIVAE: Abel
  • Ronin1183Ronin1183 Mad Decent Joined: Posts: 534
    Hi guys.
    Sorry for the random question... but I didn't want to make a new thread for this.
    Abel is one of the few characters I am interested in... Is he an okay character to pick up for a newbie?
    Really depends on whether you're a newbie to the game or FGs in general. If the former I say he's a solid choice because you should be able to learn from your losses and pick up the intricacies of Abel's game fairly quickly, plus most of Abel's match-ups on paper are even. The latter I would recommend a character with more clear cut AA options, quick ranged normals, and an invincible "get the f off me" move. Getting buttoned to death only leads to "Abel sucks" threads.
    SSFIV: AE vers.2012: Haven't been able to work on a main yet, still reading the title.
    UMvC: Team Chi/Smash/Bionic.
    SFxT: A Street Fighter and a Tekken.
  • PunchyPugilistPunchyPugilist Joined: Posts: 48
    Just wondering, what is the frame data for Step Kick xx fwd dash on block/hit?
    I have recently picked up Abel as a sub due to fitting my playing style.
  • doubleohdoubleoh Joined: Posts: 261
    +1 on block, +4 on hit... I think.
    SSFIVAE: Abel
  • Ronin1183Ronin1183 Mad Decent Joined: Posts: 534
    ^ that is correct. But I don't think the +1 on block is consistent, it can also be +0 correct me if I'm wrong.
    SSFIV: AE vers.2012: Haven't been able to work on a main yet, still reading the title.
    UMvC: Team Chi/Smash/Bionic.
    SFxT: A Street Fighter and a Tekken.
  • doubleohdoubleoh Joined: Posts: 261
    What's a good AA against people who neutral jump really close to me? For example, after a step kick dash. Would st. HP work?
    SSFIVAE: Abel
  • joyedelejoyedele Joined: Posts: 34
    My apologies if this is not the right thread for this type of question, but does anyone know if you're at a frame advantage when doing AA cr. mk into roll (light or medium)?
  • akiramikeakiramike Joined: Posts: 305
    Doubleoh - Yup. s.HP or ex FS.

    Joydele - Yes, you're at frame adv.
    hamsapsukebe.blogspot.com - Ramblings of a jobless bum.
  • MissionSchabernackMissionSchabernack Joined: Posts: 488
    Ah, got a wonderful "trick" for the step kick , cl.hp xx COD bnb.

    I had the problem, that I can consistently hit the 1 (or 2 frame window when plinking) window.
    But, problem because, my Abel didnt always performed the cl.hp (with it's 4 frame startup).
    Very often I got the cr.hp , because I was too fast in cancelling to COD and I often got a downward direction within the plink!
    And the cr.hp ofc. gets blocked, unless it was a counterhit step kick.
    I'm still a beginner, it wasn't that bad, at least I can "hit" the 1 frame window, which is the biggest deal, but I had to work on my
    joystick execution.
    I find it hard to just let the joystick in neutral position, then plink hp~mp and directly go for qcf x hp (mp). As I mentioned, I
    get the downward motion too early. It's kind of a hard "cancel" execution, because the qcf must be performed quite fast ! after the first hit
    of cl.hp.

    So what I did. My main character is dictator, so I'm very accustomed in maintaining charge , and precharging. So my "new" execution
    for the bnb looks like this:

    :f: MK :f: :b: (hold!!), HP~MP (plink), HCF HP (or MP), FADC, cr.HP ..........

    So after a step kick, I directly press backwards and hold it ! , then I plink hp~mp for the cl.hp and cancel it out of the backward with a
    HCF motion ! into COD, FADC, cr.hp...

    This helped me a lot, it fully eliminated those weird crouching moves insteadt of cl.hp :) .

    Perhaps some guys have similiar problems and find this usefull ! If you dont play charge characters, it's perhaps a little hard in the beginning.
    But it's natural, you can perorm a lot of charge moves with a HCF motion as well ! works very good in SSF2T etc. But thats another matter.
    So for me my muscles already have a lot of it memoried.
  • HFXHFX forgotten abel Joined: Posts: 4,742
    So you'd rather hold back then just let it be neutral?

    You main dictator so I guess it becomes your habit to holding the joystick (be it downback or down or back) to charge/not lose charge.

    Cancelling from close st.hp to COD isnt that strict, there's no need to input the QCF motion so fast, matter of fact theres also the possibility that you get the cr.hp because you didnt do your qcf proper(because you rushed it) and pressed hp when youre at DF instead of F.

    To me, your "trick" is unnecessarily making things more complicated, with extra inputs (the back holding and HCF instead of neutral and QCF)

    But hey, I guess whatever works for you.
    Malaysia / Kuching FGC | Twitter @ abelity_ | Facebook @ facebook.com/showmeyourabelity | Youtube @ youtube.com/c/ShowMeYourAbelity
  • MissionSchabernackMissionSchabernack Joined: Posts: 488
    It's so frustrating, reached 2.3k pp with dictator and balrog easily. Now I trained a lot with Abel in endless, played a view ranked matches and now I am down to like 1.5k pp. The points dont mean anything to me, it's just frustrating how hard Abel is for the casual player. I lose against so many "beginners", if I invite them for a rematch (after I lost in ranked), I play them endless with any character I like (Ken, Ryu, balrog, bison, cammy) and it's so easy to win !!! WIth Abel it's like an impossibility.

    In my experience, his antiair potential is very bad! Sure he has some good hitboxes, but often you trade, and to trade a cr.mk with a j.hp or j.hk is disadvantage. The most time you just block, while your opponent is frametraping throwing you, again, if you block you are in disadvantage, the opponent is doing his thing and you aren't disrupting him in any meaning, it feel so helpless!! I hate it. The other thing is his pokes!! They are quite hard to use and I dont know why, s.lk is a nice poke, but it does low damage, my opponents aren't respekting it cause of that and often I trade -> disadvantage. A lot of people are writing, that they dominate the mid to closerange with step kick. I dont know how that is possible, it's relatively slow, and the range isn't that big, compared to good zoners like bison or just Ryus or Kens cr.mk. It feels so slow to press toward and MK, I cant compete with it in footsies.
    Often the only thing I am aiming with Abel is to land a step kick into 1 frame link or cr.mp into cod fadc thing, always the cod fadc, it feels a little bit 1 dimensional and boring. At the moment I really think about to drop Abel, playing with him I feel just helpless, helpless in footsies, helpless in antiairing, helpless against zangief lol, shit.
  • splurgendiisplurgendii Every match-up, has a solution! Joined: Posts: 1,221
    It's very difficult to grow accustomed to Abel's Anti-airs, especially if one is coming from playing other characters such as Ryu or anyother shoto for that matter...
    I've been where you are right now and I know how it feels, it's very frustrating but I assure you, it gets better...
    Keep using cr:mk: and st:hp: as your go to anti-airs and occasionally switch to ex Falling sky for those problematic jump in normals that seem to give Abel a hard time...

    Also, be sure to try and get into the habit of canceling your anti-air s into rolls. While it's not something that ought to do EVERY time it's definitely something to be used relatively often and will be a great source of mix-up and damage

    Not very many characters have a reason to cancel an anti-air into a special, that being the case it's understandable for it to be difficult to grow accustom too...

    now...

    Standing light kick may seem insignificant but rest assure it IS a very good normal... Although it has relative low damage (40 damage - Above average damage for light attacks) what makes it good is obviously the speed and the distance... Against predictable pokes like Ryu's cr :mk: it shouldn't be too difficult to walk in and out of distance and whiff punish...

    5 pokes = 200 damage (assuming that none of them are counter-hit, which more often than not, they tend to be so)
    5 pokes = :hp: Tornado through...
    That's some pretty good damage over time if you ask me...
    And not to mention that on hit or block it's a decent lead in to step kick!

    SO in a nutshell that's why Light kick is so good, it's damage is good over time it's fast and hard to punish And it leads to more pressure!
    splurrrr
    "gen" like the character
    Deeeeeeee
  • splurgendiisplurgendii Every match-up, has a solution! Joined: Posts: 1,221
    My primary aim is landing step kick into combo or cr:mp: into cod...

    I can understand why your focus is thus.
    They are fairly simple to execute and they lead into great damage however your "tool-set" of offensive options, I think, could use some broadening...

    Quite often, Blocked normals, especially a blocked step kick...
    Are the things that lead into Abel's game!
    Rather than myopically focusing on punish combos, focus on tornado throws or UKD oki for example...

    While step kick and other combos are great, they do lots of damage, lots of Abel's damage and primary "game" come from other areas...
    • Try using your focus attack :mp: + :mk: to absorb normals and dash in with tornado through!
    This is GOLDEN vs Guile, Sagat it's even a good tool against plasma and is essential, imo against Ken and Akuma...

    Try throwing out a random COD and FADC it on block and go for quick cr :lk: tick thow
    *This is very scummy but just an idea to help get you thinking*

    That's it for now...
    • Practice your anti-airs more and more, along with canceling them into rolls
    • Focus on bettering your footsie game with :lk:
    • And most important try and expand your attention and gain awareness of other sources of damage throughout the match!
    splurrrr
    "gen" like the character
    Deeeeeeee
  • MissionSchabernackMissionSchabernack Joined: Posts: 488
    Ah thanks, I will try to implement the cr.mk xx roll mixups . Actually I'm Focus attacking a lot, maybe too much. Cause I think Abels antiairability is quite bad, I have the habit to absorb every jump in which is not good.
  • ailerusailerus ni hao Joined: Posts: 1,335
    Abel's anti-airs are pretty good, you just have to use them correctly. close st.fp, far st.mp, cr.mk, st.mk are the buttons I use, and then ex falling sky as well. He's got options!
    "That's what happens when you don't have the master's skill...you know what I mean...your muthafuckin money get taken if you ain't comin wit it."
  • jebopjebop Joined: Posts: 6,890
    Abel has very good anti airs, it just takes a bit to adapt to them and know which ones to use. I've tried this character a few times, and I just can't get used to him for some reason. He was always one of my favorite characters to watch, along with Viper in Vanilla. Then the Abel players disappeared, and there's a Viper everywhere.
    Making man children cry on this forum is way too easy.
  • ejk21ejk21 Joined: Posts: 56
    Does Abel's damage nerfs hurt him? How does his damage compare to other high damage characters like Viper, Cammy, Sakura and Makoto? Where would his overall damage be ranked?
  • splurgendiisplurgendii Every match-up, has a solution! Joined: Posts: 1,221
    damage nerf? which nerf are you talking about...
    Abel's damage is very high, it's ranks up there with the character's you listed...
    perhaps a LITTLE bit below....
    splurrrr
    "gen" like the character
    Deeeeeeee
  • Keran30Keran30 Joined: Posts: 3
    Can someone tell me the setups/mixups abel has after b.throw, regular throw and sweep? I have seen FS->Backdash->LK/MK Roll and TT->Dash->LK/MK Roll. What are the other good options after TT and FS? Just started with abel and i feel i need to know more of his mixups options before i can get better with him :/

    Ty
  • MissionSchabernackMissionSchabernack Joined: Posts: 488
    noticed something new for me, ok in retroperspective it's logical but it still surprised me.

    After ellbow, FS, backdash. Abel stands before his mixup options.
    I choosed Ryu in training mode and Abel for player 2 site for some recording.

    I recorded ellbow, FS, backdash, mk roll (crossup), cr.lp ~ cls.hp (3 frame link -> easy).

    Ok, so out of the okizeme charts from HFX I interpret that after the mk roll I have 4 frames advantage.
    So cr.lp has 4 frames startup so I hit my opponent meaty and the cls.hp will always connect (if the lp hits !).
    I tried to hold down the joystick with ryu, but during wakeup, he cant wakeup into the crouching position, it's first a wakeup into standing position, after that the crouch is attempted (do somebody knows how big is the startup for crouching?).
    So the cr.lp meaty, if it hits, always hits the opponent standing, so the cls.hp connects.
    I find that much easier to do then cr.lp ~ cls.mp link (it's a 2 framer but I dont like the timing, kind of weird).

    Another question, in the okizeme chart are listed the frame advantages for the TT mixup.

    8 Frame advantage for TT, forward dash, lk roll
    5 Frame advantage for TT, forward dash, ml roll

    And for the FS mixup, there is only the lk roll listed, with 7 frame advantage:

    7 Frame advantage for FS, backwards dash, lk roll

    but not for the mk roll, I would assume that it's 4 frames (easy math :P). But if so, why is there written that after mk roll, you can do cr.hp to beat throws! cr.hp has 8 frames startup, so you get beat by 3 frame normal throws, that irritates me.


    edit:

    OK cant be, there must be some error, that would mean a meaty cr.lk is unblockable, or any meaty low attack :P
  • The 5th HorsemanThe 5th Horseman Rushdown Artist Joined: Posts: 408
    Could someone give me the frame advantage / disadvantage after a step kick > dash on block and on hit ?

    what is the frame advantage after a lvl 2 FADC forward ?

    I know his TT's have properties regarding invulnerability to strike / throw....could someone clarify which is immune to what please?

    and lastly, is it true that L wheel kick is -5 on HIT ? is it really punishable on hit, depending on the spacing ?

    thank you.
    " Drunk or not, I always play for my stream monsters. " Drunk FChamp
    " There are no pacts between lions and men. " - Achilles
  • pillspills Joined: Posts: 294
    after step kick on block its +0 without dash and +1 with dash. On hit its +3...making on hit + dash forward +4

    After lvl 2 fadc fwd: it is +6

    ALL tornado throws are throw invulnerable and Ex TT is Hit Invulnerable.

    one WHeel Kick. Yes. But, if you can space it on the last active frames(i.e. spaced perfectly) it can be like +0/1. But If spaced perfectly, you don't get any frame traps or something cause you would be way too far. However, it is a great poke; especially is very low attack heavy( like ryu's cr fwd or akuma with sweep)
  • splurgendiisplurgendii Every match-up, has a solution! Joined: Posts: 1,221
    Pills <3
    splurrrr
    "gen" like the character
    Deeeeeeee
  • Angry AbelAngry Abel Joined: Posts: 385
    My mix ups after TT or FS consist of:

    HK roll > TT )or the EX version if I think they're going to jab)
    HK roll > Block (for bait)
    Hk roll > Neutral Jump
    Hk roll > Cr Lk/Lp
    Dash Mk roll
    Dash Jumping Mk crossover > CrMp > CoD
    Lk roll > Lk roll to end up on other side (tends to bait a lot of Ultras)
    Forward Jump into block or TT.

    I find it quite simple, and effective. Are there reasons why most Abel's don't Hk roll after a knock down?
  • The 5th HorsemanThe 5th Horseman Rushdown Artist Joined: Posts: 408
    wow....thank you for the concise and quick response, its definitely appreciated. You sir are awarded 10 Karma points for being just that cool <3

    Last thing: EX TT is throw AND strike immune ?

    and what are Abels Health and Stun Values ? 1050 each ?
    " Drunk or not, I always play for my stream monsters. " Drunk FChamp
    " There are no pacts between lions and men. " - Achilles
  • Angry AbelAngry Abel Joined: Posts: 385
    No, just strike immune. It gets beat by throws.
  • The 5th HorsemanThe 5th Horseman Rushdown Artist Joined: Posts: 408
    okay so just to clarify, what would happen in this situation:

    Abel does step kick dash cancel > Light TT, but my opponent is mashing on crouch tech and has a 3 frame crouching short. Im assuming based off of the properties and frame data, that Abel's TT will get stuffed, correct ? (assuming the opponents crouch tech is in range)
    " Drunk or not, I always play for my stream monsters. " Drunk FChamp
    " There are no pacts between lions and men. " - Achilles
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