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  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ouroborus wrote: »
    All right, going to ask another (probably) scrub question. I was looking up high level Dictator gameplay on YT and came across this:



    At first I thought it was the other way around and Combofiend was rocking top tier but it honestly blew my mind to see Daigo using top tier in a game. So, I get Combo picking Rock to counter Blanka BS and I get Rolento being good in A groove and having those mixups. But what advantage does Eagle have?

    eagle is really good vs blanka. not so much vs sagat.

    A groove is his best groove. C groove would be his best if his level 2 super wasn't punishable on hit.

    its been years and i forgot what was the combo exactly. something like c.lp, c.lp, c.mk xx level 2. it will push the opponent too far back, make some hits whiff and make eagle punishable on hit. he might be able to cancel the end into a special tho i think.
    You can make the level 2 saf on hit but ending in the Stick rush or Lariat if I remember right.

    you have my cvs2 setup. go test it out. this is an order.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Hey, how do you do Bison's Psycho Banish shit in A Groove? I think I figured it out but I want to be sure. And I checked YT and the SRK wiki and I didn't find that much regarding this. I know you can do LK Scissor kick and then activate and Jab but I think you can activate and do HP into Scissors then into Banish? It seems to work best after activating, Jab, LK Scissors, HP, and then LP Psycho Banishx900000000 then LK Scissors into Scissor super.
    STOMP!
  • Trouble BrewingTrouble Brewing Super Coffee Fighter V Joined: Posts: 5,174 mod
    Hey, how do you do Bison's Psycho Banish shit in A Groove?

    Check out Gunter's vid.

    The artist formerly known as Starcade RIP
  • Lord_RaptorLord_Raptor Joined: Posts: 8,809
    Ouroborus wrote: »
    Ouroborus wrote: »
    All right, going to ask another (probably) scrub question. I was looking up high level Dictator gameplay on YT and came across this:



    At first I thought it was the other way around and Combofiend was rocking top tier but it honestly blew my mind to see Daigo using top tier in a game. So, I get Combo picking Rock to counter Blanka BS and I get Rolento being good in A groove and having those mixups. But what advantage does Eagle have?

    eagle is really good vs blanka. not so much vs sagat.

    A groove is his best groove. C groove would be his best if his level 2 super wasn't punishable on hit.

    its been years and i forgot what was the combo exactly. something like c.lp, c.lp, c.mk xx level 2. it will push the opponent too far back, make some hits whiff and make eagle punishable on hit. he might be able to cancel the end into a special tho i think.
    You can make the level 2 saf on hit but ending in the Stick rush or Lariat if I remember right.

    you have my cvs2 setup. go test it out. this is an order.
    Just saw this, gonna test now
    Are you right? Are you READY!?
  • Lord_RaptorLord_Raptor Joined: Posts: 8,809
    Ouroborus wrote: »
    Ouroborus wrote: »
    All right, going to ask another (probably) scrub question. I was looking up high level Dictator gameplay on YT and came across this:



    At first I thought it was the other way around and Combofiend was rocking top tier but it honestly blew my mind to see Daigo using top tier in a game. So, I get Combo picking Rock to counter Blanka BS and I get Rolento being good in A groove and having those mixups. But what advantage does Eagle have?

    eagle is really good vs blanka. not so much vs sagat.

    A groove is his best groove. C groove would be his best if his level 2 super wasn't punishable on hit.

    its been years and i forgot what was the combo exactly. something like c.lp, c.lp, c.mk xx level 2. it will push the opponent too far back, make some hits whiff and make eagle punishable on hit. he might be able to cancel the end into a special tho i think.
    You can make the level 2 saf on hit but ending in the Stick rush or Lariat if I remember right.

    you have my cvs2 setup. go test it out. this is an order.
    Yeah Lariat doesn't work but you can just do LK Stick rush and you're fine.
    Are you right? Are you READY!?
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Any good Hibiki matches out there?
    STOMP!
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,084
    Look out for OTK, Buktooth and Cross and Rai matches.
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • deadaciddeadacid I feel like someone threw me away. Joined: Posts: 745
    Just started getting into this game, picked a hell of a time to learn too. Anyways, what kind of team should I be building if I want to use K Groove. I figured it would be a team that gets a lot of damage off of level 3s right? This might be a stupid question, but I'm having a hard time finding info on this game.
    PSN: DEADACID #killthescene
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,084
    Cammy, Blanka, Sagat. Look for INO and OTK matches.
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,194 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I still miss cvs2. ONLINE WHERE.
  • HellionHellion .5 Beat Combat Joined: Posts: 888
    And Nostalgia strikes.
    I am sure my skills are beyond rusty but I miss this game.
    It owned.
    "No one quits SRK. NO ONE" -wepeel
    P-Kyo(2), Guile, Cammy
    ST-Guile
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 782
    Are you in norcal? We still have monthly tourneys in san carlos.
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 782
    What say you, forum lurkers? Who's the best shoto in K-Groove?

    My opinion: Akuma (harder to use, but his mobility and meterless damage really stand out) > Ryu > Ken (not having RC funky kick really hurts, he doesn't have many advantages over the other two without it)
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • extravagantextravagant Joined: Posts: 964
    Akuma is good but he has really low HP, so you can't really rely on building the rage meter and supers, he can be wiped out easily by the 1st or 2nd character.
  • Shanghai KidShanghai Kid Joined: Posts: 2,261
    Evil Ryu :)
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 782
    Akuma is good but he has really low HP, so you can't really rely on building the rage meter and supers, he can be wiped out easily by the 1st or 2nd character.

    In K, Akuma's life disadvantage is diminished because the ability to gain life back via JDs and the damage reduction he gets when raged. He should still get raged twice in a round with competent JDing, so I don't see how he can't rely on supers/building meter.

    The way I see it, being K groove minimizes some of his weaknesses (lowest life, worst pokes) compared to the other shotos, while highlighting his strengths (best mobility, best meterless damage, most versatile supers).
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • HeaTHeaT mindgames Joined: Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    What say you, forum lurkers? Who's the best shoto in K-Groove?

    My opinion: Akuma (harder to use, but his mobility and meterless damage really stand out) > Ryu > Ken (not having RC funky kick really hurts, he doesn't have many advantages over the other two without it)

    i personally think ken is the best k groove shoto. he doesnt need RC funny kick, it's somewhat of a gimick anyhow because it has good priority to begin with and you can mix it in off s. lk which comes out very fast. he has really good guard breaking capabilities with this pokes and block strings (cross up, standing rh, funny kick is insane) which is really important for kgroove, his standing rh is probably the best footies normal out of all three. i will agree his supers are not as versatile.

    he's more diverse in terms of mobility than ryu, not quite as much as akuma, but his defense is way better than akuma's. and arguably he has the best ground game out of the three.

    im outi

    Roberth
    I stream games - twitch.tv/heatzgaming
    Youtube channel - youtube.com/heatfury
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 782
    I wouldn't call RC funky kick a gimmick. It's a safe, dominant mid-range poke that lets him hang with top-tier characters on the ground. It's his best tool by far.

    Without that poke, I think he gets lamed out pretty hard by the top tier characters. In K, all 3 shotos have to either play rushdown or run away - their pokes aren't good enough for them to come out ahead in the footsie game - and Ken is worst suited for this of the three IMO. Incidentally, I think Ryu's s.HP is better than any of ken's normals, including ken's s.HK (which has good reach, but is slow, and vulnerable to rolls/JDs/jumps).

    Guard crush ability is something that's hard to gauge, but Ryu is not a slouch in that department either, with that s.HP. Akuma may not be quite as strong as those two at crushing guard, but his mixup game is so much trickier than the other two I'd argue that it makes his offense scarier.

    One big advantage he does have over Ryu is his dp is faster. Akuma's is the same speed though.

    Ken does have the most ambiguous crossup of the shotos as well. That is good and all, but it's not like Ryu and Akuma's crossups aren't good. And I don't think the best crossup alone is enough to outweigh the advantages the other two have.

    HeaT wrote: »
    he's more diverse in terms of mobility than ryu, not quite as much as akuma, but his defense is way better than akuma's. and arguably he has the best ground game out of the three.

    I agree with all of this, but don't think it's enough to make Ken better than the other two.

    -I wouldn't say his movement is THAT much better than Ryu. Command roll isn't very good. Akuma, on the other hand, has teleport, which is a huge advantage.

    -How's his defense that much better than Akuma's? He has 1600 more life, that's about 1 fierce, and K minimizes the life disadvantage with the life you get back from JDing and the reduced damage you take when raged. K Akuma has better stamina/survivability than any version of Akuma.
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • NakiNaki 「謎のバイカー」 Joined: Posts: 448
    I (try) to play N-Iori/Morrigan/R2 Sagat

    Q1. where is buktooth aka where/how has he been
    Q1a. how to fight top tier as morrigan (rip gfaqs)
    other than going to the character select screen
    Q1b. Is there no way to punish tech rolls/safe falls other than fly rh? I know fly rh into demon is pretty hard, I can't get it at all on reaction.
    Q1c. sometimes I get thrown when trying to do fake/crossup fly forward, am I just timing the fly forward too early?

    Q2. I want to keep on using morrigan, but I know there will be days where she's just won't work. I like claw, does he mesh well with N?

    Q3. what's the matchup between hibiki and sagat? i disliked playing hibiki after the sea of sagats in the back, so that's why I picked R2 sagat.

    Q4. no trick to learning RC's but grinding it out, right?
    like this post if you want cfe released on psn/xbla
    cvs2 too
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    edited September 2014
    Naki wrote: »
    I (try) to play N-Iori/Morrigan/R2 Sagat

    Q1. where is buktooth aka where/how has he been
    Q1a. how to fight top tier as morrigan (rip gfaqs)
    other than going to the character select screen
    Q1b. Is there no way to punish tech rolls/safe falls other than fly rh? I know fly rh into demon is pretty hard, I can't get it at all on reaction.
    Q1c. sometimes I get thrown when trying to do fake/crossup fly forward, am I just timing the fly forward too early?

    Q2. I want to keep on using morrigan, but I know there will be days where she's just won't work. I like claw, does he mesh well with N?

    Q3. what's the matchup between hibiki and sagat? i disliked playing hibiki after the sea of sagats in the back, so that's why I picked R2 sagat.

    Q4. no trick to learning RC's but grinding it out, right?
    randomly just decided to check this thread today...

    q1. i'm doing great. I just concentrate on making videogames now instead of competing
    q1a. to fight top tier as morrigan you have to have a very good understanding of the neutral game along with tons of patience. some matchups are pretty horrible (blanka cammy sagat), but if you look for opportunities to land sweeps/dps you can turn the match around
    q1b. depending on distance, you can punish tech rolls with: 1) walk up sweep or walk up low fierce into DI 2) dash rh into sweep or DI combo 3) dash rh straight into DI
    q1c. you're timing it too early, or they're using delayed wakeup. In normal mixup situations, if you think they're going to delayed wakeup you can instead dash -> immediately hold up to fly upwards. This creates a safe'ish crossup/non crossup mixup that is very ambiguous

    q2. you can use claw in N how you would normally use him, just with much better offense (his low jump offense is strong, fastest run in game), and no get-out-jail ccs. There's other differences that matter (the extra pre-jump frames hurt vega more than other chars, ability to counter roll out of guard crush ccs can't be discounted), but all 6 vegas are able to play footsies and use low strong to poke, slide to whiff punish, and walk back roundhouse to antiair

    q3. hibiki has a slight advantage against sagat. extremely solid antiair even vs his low jumps, more range and walk speed, solid answers to his dominant pokes, able to work his guard bar and safely chip him into making mistakes. don't get hit by a super and she should win

    q4. the trick to learning RCs is to:

    1) go into training mode
    2) turn on input display
    3) attempt to do an RC move
    4) look at the input display to see what went wrong
    5) try to correct that in next attempt
    6) repeat till you are good at RCs

    Seriously. When most people practice execution tasks, they literally just do them over and over and expect to get better. People don't often compare what their hands need to be doing vs what they actually are doing
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    edited September 2014
    k-ken imo is the best k-shoto. guard break ability and damage off of guard breaks. also, canceling stuff into jab roll or rdp+short is much better when you can JD 1 frame before you can do anything else

    shotos by groove:
    c: ken
    a: akuma
    p: akuma
    s: ryu
    n: akuma
    k: ken
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 782
    Good to know you're alive and well. Still working on KI I assume?

    What makes Ken's guard break ability so much better than the other two shotos? I assumed K-Ken gets outpoked just as badly as the other shotos in K groove, having to rely on risky roundhouses, non-RC funky kick, and fireballs. I don't have the guide handy, are his supers more damaging than the others (to make his damage off guard breaks better)?

    I admit, I haven't seen people cancel into his command roll, A2 style, very effectively in this game. I should probably give that a shot.

    I'd think the CAPS shoto rankings are not very controversial. Surprised to see you listing Akuma as best in N-Groove, what's the logic behind that? With RC in play, I would've expected Ken to jump back into the top spot (dominant mid-range character), with Ryu not far behind (lvl 1s are really good for him).

    Speaking of Akuma, it reminds me of something I was thinking. A while back you made a tier list of OKI characters:

    http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/584972#Comment_584972

    Shouldn't SNK-groove Akuma be at least B class? Seems to me his B & B leads right into an oki mixup situation, and I'd say his mixup is trickier than most to deal with.
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • Nick T.Nick T. Joined: Posts: 3,976
    Hey guys, quick question.... Anyone planning on going to the Cal Poly tourny? I'm considering coming up and putting the time into the game again.
    "It's not your characters' weakness, but weakness in yourself.
    Practice it hard and you can beat anybody." -Kuni
  • NorieagaNorieaga FADC x ROFLCOPTER Joined: Posts: 4,217
    CVS2 novice here. I want to build a team around N. Akuma, I read that N groove is his best. I'd like to use N versions of every other character in order to keep it simple. What kind of a team can I make? Characters I'm interested in are: Athena, Rolento, Joe, Vega, Balrog, Terry, and Cammy. Also...

    1. Is it possible to cancel into Joe's TNT punch on a pad? Is it the same method as Decapre's piano input in USF4?

    2. Is there any way to play this online? I currently play on a Dreamcast emulator and am relegated to playing against the AI.

    Thanks.
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Norieaga wrote: »
    CVS2 novice here. I want to build a team around N. Akuma, I read that N groove is his best. I'd like to use N versions of every other character in order to keep it simple. What kind of a team can I make? Characters I'm interested in are: Athena, Rolento, Joe, Vega, Balrog, Terry, and Cammy. Also...

    1. Is it possible to cancel into Joe's TNT punch on a pad? Is it the same method as Decapre's piano input in USF4?

    2. Is there any way to play this online? I currently play on a Dreamcast emulator and am relegated to playing against the AI.

    Thanks.

    If you're looking for a team to back up Akuma, the easy mode option would be to use some combination of vega, cammy, and Rog. Vega and cammy are auto footies, all 3 have the ability to whiff punish from far if you're reactions are up to snuff, plus cammy and Rog make great use of super.

    If you want to build a "skill" team around Akuma then go for terry and joe. You'll definitely have up hill battles against the top tier...especially sagat.

    1) You can cancel into hands, you just have to do it fast. Not sure how it's done in SF4, but it should be the same.

    2) you can use demul to play online. I've played it a few times and its "ok" in that you're playing cvs and it's better than SF4. Its just that you'll typically encounter connections between 4-6 frames of delay which is absolutely horrendous for thus type of game, 2 frames of delay is probably the best you can hope for, but even then, it's noticeable.
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 782
    edited October 2014
    Norieaga wrote: »
    CVS2 novice here. I want to build a team around N. Akuma, I read that N groove is his best. I'd like to use N versions of every other character in order to keep it simple. What kind of a team can I make? Characters I'm interested in are: Athena, Rolento, Joe, Vega, Balrog, Terry, and Cammy. Also...

    Since you are a novice, I strongly recommend not starting with N-Groove (or Akuma for that matter, but you sound pretty convinced on that front). N is a hard groove to start in, and you aren't doing yourself any favors with those characters, who range from bad to mediocre in N.

    Instead, I suggest starting in K Groove. It's probably Akuma's second best groove, and most of those characters are better in K than in N. K Cammy is a top-tier, easy character to learn and would be essential. After that, you can pick whoever you play best, though I think Rolento is the best of that lot. However, like Akuma, he's a difficult character to learn, so you might be better off going with someone easier like Terry or Balrog.
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • NorieagaNorieaga FADC x ROFLCOPTER Joined: Posts: 4,217
    Thanks for the input. I've been playing SF a long time, I'm sure I could become decent in N-groove very fast. I tend to struggle a bit with execution-heavy characters, of which none of these characters look to be. I watched some vids of N. Akuma, for example, and can see his plan revolves around frame-trapping with run and cr. jab, cancelling into tatsu, and TK air fireballs.

    I've actually been thinking of avoiding Rolento, I play him in SFxT and USF4. Don't want to confuse myself further. Any more input, please feel free!
  • Nick T.Nick T. Joined: Posts: 3,976
    Norieaga wrote: »
    Thanks for the input. I've been playing SF a long time, I'm sure I could become decent in N-groove very fast. I tend to struggle a bit with execution-heavy characters, of which none of these characters look to be. I watched some vids of N. Akuma, for example, and can see his plan revolves around frame-trapping with run and cr. jab, cancelling into tatsu, and TK air fireballs.

    I've actually been thinking of avoiding Rolento, I play him in SFxT and USF4. Don't want to confuse myself further. Any more input, please feel free!
    Warning ; Possible incoming novel. lol

    Athena, Rolento, Joe, Vega, Balrog, Terry, and Cammy

    Out of those characters along with Akuma, it really comes down to how you want to approach the game in all fairness. Seeing as how you're a novice, I don't think Akuma is necessarily a bad choice, but a difficult one. You have to deal with the fact that he has low life, which can be difficult for starting out and learning the game.

    I think that for starting out and learning the way the game is played, Cammy would be a good addition to your team. This way, you'll be able to learn the small jump mechanic as well as ground spacing. She would also be easier to play on pad. She plays pretty much the same across all the grooves fundamentally so she would be a good universal character to learn for now. If you decide to change characters later on, she would be a good backup character.

    Athena does gain some decent things in a run groove. Her small jump Rh is good and she can benefit from the stock system in certain situations. For example, if you have her outside of the corner, and you counter roll a laggy limb, or a blocked normal into super, you get a command grab into a combo. She also benefits from having RC command grab on deck during wakeup. By the same right, if she has two stocks and she one broken, you get a free wakeup by doing her orbs super and then canceling as early as possible and this leaves you with enough frames to chain a cr short. She has pretty decent wakeup options. Her problem comes with the mid screen damage. She's strictly a zoning and corner push character. Zone them out, condition them to be afraid of jumping then push them back to the corner. and go from there.

    With Rolento, you do get good offensive and defensive options. As a footsie tool, you do gain run into slide, which is good for punishing things that your regular standing normals might not beat. As a defensive tool, you do gain RC scouter jump to get out of the corner. Definitely handy. The small jump gives you good options and 50/50s. You get some good options off of his throws and patriot circles which can be setup with the run. and all of them involve run stopping(tap toward twice then stop almost right away) then either scouter jump MK, or small jump strong.

    Joe gains RC Hands, has good normals for small jump spacing and can do decent damage off BnBs. With the hands, he's more of a mid range pressure character and can mix that up with RC crack kick(don't know the name, sorry haha) or just small jump pressure. Not a bad choice but will be a challenge.

    Vega in N has great small jump normals that come out really fast. He is pretty easy to play on a pad with not too much difficulty. The small jump does open up his offense a little, but unfortunately, it will be a little harder to land supers with him. In a run groove, because it's more offense related, unless he has parry or JD to help him with his charges, it will be a bit difficult to land supers with him. There are ways around it though.

    Balrog is a good normals character. His st fierce goes the same range as Sagat's st MK(about half screen). Small jump normals are long and hit hard. Good for poking away at people. Using TAP with him on a pad can be a bit difficult, but I feel like TAP is more of a surprise tool. Not necessarily something you want to throw out because the startup is really slow, but leaves you at +2. Using TAP in conjunction with st fierce is an OK frame trap of sorts and will beat slower normals on startup. I feel like Balrog benefits more in K or C.

    Terry I think would be okay for your team too. He has great small jump normals, good guard breaking pressure, good damage off BnB's with level 1s. He also doesn't have a bad wakeup game either. All versions of rising tackle are invincible on startup for 8 frames (this is the entirety of the startup), plus he has Alpha counters and counter rolls if needed.

    Have fun! lol I know I left you with a lot of options.
    "It's not your characters' weakness, but weakness in yourself.
    Practice it hard and you can beat anybody." -Kuni
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 782
    Norieaga wrote: »
    Thanks for the input. I've been playing SF a long time, I'm sure I could become decent in N-groove very fast. I tend to struggle a bit with execution-heavy characters, of which none of these characters look to be. I watched some vids of N. Akuma, for example, and can see his plan revolves around frame-trapping with run and cr. jab, cancelling into tatsu, and TK air fireballs.

    Akuma is an execution-heavy character. To play him in N-groove, you have to have RC hurricane kick down cold - it's the key to his game, as he can't consistently get in on top-tier footsie characters without it. To max out his potential, you have to know and be able to execute his multiple raging demon setups, and be able to regularly hit cr.MK xx fireball level 3 (the double-half-circle motion one).

    N-Groove is hard for beginners because it generally lacks a big-damage option (lvl 2 cancels in C, raged level 3s in K), only has semi-stored meter, and while it gives you a good defensive option in GC-roll, it's harder to apply than those in C (air block) and K (JD). A cvs2 beginner playing mid-tier characters in N-groove is a recipe for losing an awful lot as you learn the game. Some people can deal with that though, it's all up to how you like to learn.

    Nick T. gave a great breakdown of those characters in N-Groove, I agree with almost everything said.
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • NorieagaNorieaga FADC x ROFLCOPTER Joined: Posts: 4,217
    edited November 2014
    Hm, interesting. Think I'll try a combo of Cammy, Terry, and Athena in K. First I think I'll hit up some tutorials related to system mechanics. I can play CVS2 the classical Street Fighter way but I definitely want to learn everything that's specific about the game. Thanks for the input, folks.

    EDIT: Are there any other characters I'm missing who are even easier to play than the three I've mentioned above? I wouldn't mind becoming decent quickly because I play a rotation of fighters and they all take enough time to learn.
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Easy mode team? Claw, cammy, sagat. All have high priority, fast and far reaching pokes. The latter 2 are high damage and make very good use of super meter.
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • Nick T.Nick T. Joined: Posts: 3,976

    N-Groove is hard for beginners because it generally lacks a big-damage option (lvl 2 cancels in C, raged level 3s in K), only has semi-stored meter, and while it gives you a good defensive option in GC-roll, it's harder to apply than those in C (air block) and K (JD). A cvs2 beginner playing mid-tier characters in N-groove is a recipe for losing an awful lot as you learn the game. Some people can deal with that though, it's all up to how you like to learn.
    Definitely this. N-Groove requires a bit more widespread game knowledge compared to the other grooves, even S, because it's not so straight forward on how to use the meter. It requires a bit more calculation on the users end.

    It was a great starter groove when the game first came out because it seemed like because of the options that N groove offered, it seemed better in the long run. What happened was that it turned out to be a little more difficult to use in terms of practicality or consistency. Like, it offers great ways to land damage, but damage output can be low sometimes. Or, sometimes because of the low damage output in some scenarios, a round would still be played out, whereas a level 2 super with C groove would've ended it.
    "It's not your characters' weakness, but weakness in yourself.
    Practice it hard and you can beat anybody." -Kuni
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 782
    Norieaga wrote: »
    Hm, interesting. Think I'll try a combo of Cammy, Terry, and Athena in K. First I think I'll hit up some tutorials related to system mechanics. I can play CVS2 the classical Street Fighter way but I definitely want to learn everything that's specific about the game. Thanks for the input, folks.

    EDIT: Are there any other characters I'm missing who are even easier to play than the three I've mentioned above? I wouldn't mind becoming decent quickly because I play a rotation of fighters and they all take enough time to learn.

    I'm just posting to second caliagent's team suggestion. That's probably the easiest team in the game to learn, you can get far with just basic footsie knowledge. What's also nice about that team is that it's very strong in both C groove and K groove.

    Also, I'd recommend staying away from Athena in K-groove. Crouching fierce can only get you so far, and she has no reliable way of landing her supers. Athena is decent in A groove, and pretty crappy in all other grooves as a result of her supers being so bad.
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • extravagantextravagant Joined: Posts: 964
    I think I'm switching out my beloved Mai, and I think I will either replace her with a better character or somebody else. My K-Rock and K-Kyo are already low tiers compared to A-Blanka,Claw,Dictator

    What do you guys recommend that I should add?

    K-Chun Li
    K-Sagat
    K-Ken
    K-Iori

    I'm thinking Sagat, but Sagat is kinda blocky. but he's still really good... but I dont know Sagat's matchup against high jumpy characters like claw or bison and blanka.... so I'm not quite sure. the reason I kept Mai was not only to be unique but also because she can jump high and air grab high jumping characters like Claw
  • xX_Deus_XxxX_Deus_Xx ItsCool2BeDismissive Joined: Posts: 2,579
    edited November 2014
    kgroove theory: k characters should have mobility, so they can back away more easily from agroove and not get chipped to death. so theory ken. and mai. in theory.

    sagat theory: sagat is always good. quit playing with your dick and just pick sagat.

    meter theory: chunli can't threaten big damage without meter.

    chunli is not top tier theory: chun is not top tier in this game because EVERYONE misses her super SOMETIMES, and will eat shit for it.
    Have fun, and be safe with it.

    Just kidding. Fuck shit up.
  • extravagantextravagant Joined: Posts: 964
    I'm thinking of replacing my Mai for K-Sagat.

    K-Sagat is quite dangerous with his meter, damage, and health. Hell, a R1 K-Sagat is quite dangerous. His low fierce + tiger cannon super does HALF of a R2 characters life. Yes, that's R1 doing half the life of an R2 from Sagat's rage meter super.

    I think what I'll do is this. If I'm having trouble with claw, dictator, or blanka, I'll switch them out.

    My main team will be K-Sagat, Rock, Kyo. but if I'm facing trouble against some crazy character like Claw, I'll replace my Rock and put in Mai. Mai has good jumps and I can sorta use her against Claw. I just can't use Mai for shit against Blanka. you know, just matching it up the right away. i dont wanna fully commit to character loyalty mainly because my characters work better against certain other characters.
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 782
    In K groove,

    Sagat > Chun~=Ken~=Mai > Iori

    Rai just won the Japan cvs2 nationals with K Mai, the character is legit.
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • NorieagaNorieaga FADC x ROFLCOPTER Joined: Posts: 4,217
    I'm going to say stick with Mai. Only because I see Sagat on every bloody team, lol!
  • popoblopopoblo Joined: Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited January 2015
    In K groove,

    Sagat > Chun~=Ken~=Mai > Iori

    Rai just won the Japan cvs2 nationals with K Mai, the character is legit.

    Rai is a beast, didn't BAS say K-Mai was top tier one time? I prefer N-Mai in theory since she doesn't die to chip CC's and only looses out on JD.

    I also really like N-Rolento in theory as well, I was bored and watched some of Combofiend's K-Rolento and the low jump mp into super is really quick. And N-groove would give Rolento more of his AC's as well as run, low jump, meter control, and RC's, which all help him out quite a bit.

    Are there videos or results of the recent cvs2 nationals anywhere?

    EDIT- basically what Nick T said about N-Rolento, haha

  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 782
    They should be up on A-Cho's youtube channel, did you check out their november videos?
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,084
    edited January 2015
    The A-Cho youtube channel is updating daily, but not cvs2 yet
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,084
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • phantasyphantasy Smash Journeyman Joined: Posts: 8,557
    chang zangief raiden is a pretty tight team
    youtube sfv
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    C-Geese >> K-Geese
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 782
    edited February 2015
    What is the current thinking on roll-groove Kyo? How would you order the grooves?

    I'm thinking A>=C>>N.

    A being a tad better than C because his CCs are all good, and his chip/GC CC is immune to ACs. It's really close though, because C Kyo can do a lot with stored level 2s.

    N Kyo lags behind C and A because Kyo's roll (and therefore, counter-roll) is really bad, and he gets nothing out of level 1s. Run vs dash is about a wash, though given his mixup-based game, run is probably a tad better. Low jump is really good for Kyo, but I don't think having that in N outweighs the big advantages of stored meter (+faster meter building) and CC activation.
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited February 2015
    A-Kyo is definitely better than C but C-Kyo might have easier TODs.

    nevertheless, the majority of the time you can super, you can CC activate. he also gains CC anti air/guardcrush/chip which makes him more formidable vs P/K and blanka.

    IMO, A-Kyo is the hardest character to learn in the game. heres why:

    -normals and pokes gets outclassed. while his normals are good, its not as good as most of the other characters. hes certainly not going to win in a footsie game against sagat, cammy, hibiki, etc.

    -all of his air normals are super situational compared to someone like sagat with his j.hk and vega with his jumping hp/hk (option selects into throw) which is their go to move in the air 90% of the time.

    -his CC are done with mutiple dp inputs like sakuras except sakura's CC doesn't change when the opponent is blocking or getting hit. for kyos, you have to visually hit confirm his CC and cancel the dp into his qcf+p special or d/f+hk command normal to keep it going.

    then theres the CC ender. depending on which groove your opponent is using, you can end the CC with his ground pound OTG into hop kicks into follow up for a potential TOD. the timing for the ender is not the easiest thing to do and like the rest of his CC, it will require lots of practice.

    -subpar roll cancels and even more subpar roll. his roll is one of the weaker ones in the game so you won't be able to easily roll your way in. his safest RC is qcf+lp but compared to ioris, it comes out slower, not as active and has smaller hitbox. also, it overlaps with his lk hopkicks.


    Post edited by Ouroborus on
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 782
    Good points. A Kyo's metered options are just too good. Plus, Kyo isn't too dependent on the meter either to play his game, with his great meterless damage and mixup game.

    C groove's advantages aren't that beneficial for Kyo either. Airblock I guess would be helpful if you want to turtle, but that isn't Kyo's best game. Always having a lvl 2 for doing huge damage is the biggest perk of C groove, but that isn't quite as good as having a CC that turns the tide in Kyo's hardest matches (guessing Sagat, Cammy, Chun?).
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • marcus32Xmarcus32X twitter @marcus32x Joined: Posts: 55
    Im gonna try get some CVS2 into casuals (not exactly casuals but a house I meet up with other USF4 players )
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 782
    Good to know you're alive and well. Still working on KI I assume?

    What makes Ken's guard break ability so much better than the other two shotos? I assumed K-Ken gets outpoked just as badly as the other shotos in K groove, having to rely on risky roundhouses, non-RC funky kick, and fireballs. I don't have the guide handy, are his supers more damaging than the others (to make his damage off guard breaks better)?

    I admit, I haven't seen people cancel into his command roll, A2 style, very effectively in this game. I should probably give that a shot.

    I'd think the CAPS shoto rankings are not very controversial. Surprised to see you listing Akuma as best in N-Groove, what's the logic behind that? With RC in play, I would've expected Ken to jump back into the top spot (dominant mid-range character), with Ryu not far behind (lvl 1s are really good for him).

    Picking up this thread, since it came up in casual cvs2 yesterday:

    Ken's kick throw does 2200 damage; Ryu's does 2100 and Akuma's does 2000. Factor in the 35% bonus for raged normals, and those numbers become 2970, 2835, and 2700 respectively. The difference between a Ken and Akuma raged throw is therefore less than 1 Ken crouching short of damage (300). It matters, but not that much. I will say that Ken having airthrow is a nice perk.

    Also, I checked the damages from the trio's supers (NickT rocks for posting the bible!). Ken gets most damage from shippu, 6300 (6930 raged). He does have a distinct advantage here, because shippu is much more versatile than Ryu and Akuma's most damaging supers. Ryu gets 6400 (7040 raged) off shin shoryu, but the spacing is finicky. I still think he can land this in most situations, but technically it isn't as versatile as shippu. Tatsumaki super does the same damage as Akuma's shoryu super (below).

    Akuma has the weakest guard break game of the three, so this matters less for him. Demon does 7000 damage (7700 raged!), but I literally have never seen an Akuma break guard, then land a raging demon. He's far more likely to have to resort to his shoryu super, which does 5500 damage (6050 raged), which is a distinct disadvantage.

    I'd still take K Akuma over either of the other two shotos >:) He still has the best mobility (teleport+divekick) and the best meterless damage of the three. His oki game is also the strongest, which is really critical since the shotos aren't going to outpoke too many people on the ground without RC.

    (But I'm sorry K-Ryu fans, I'm leaning towards Ken being better now.)
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • popoblopopoblo Joined: Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    K-Ken takes the cake for me as best K-groove shoto.

    What do you guys think are N-Mai's worst match ups? She just seems so fast and versatile that not a ton of characters could outright dominate her. Some characters will certainly outrange her, like Hibiki, Blanka, and Vega, but her low jump RH is so fast and if she gets cornered she can just wall dive out of there. Also N-groove gives her RC fan, so she gets a slightly riskier mid-range poke. I'd imagine she has some 4-6 match ups, but any 3-7 hard counters?
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